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Murdaugh Murders, Part 10
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Welcome back! Today, we talk about Alex Murdaugh's appeals and what the future may hold.
Check out our YouTube Channel! Fixate Today: Grey Matters
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Transcript
Introduction of Hosts and Case Focus
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to Fixate Today Gone Tomorrow. I'm Nikki and I'm here with my Aunt Joy. We are two neurodivergent ladies who obsess about various topics. Joy is autistic and I have ADHD and we are letting our hyper fixations fly.
Murdoch Case Updates and Trial Outcome
00:00:15
Speaker
Today we are fixating on the Murda murders. Music
00:00:29
Speaker
Welcome back, everybody. we are recording another episode of our coverage on the Murdoch case. We're wrapping it up here. We're getting to the, I mean, I guess it's ongoing, but we're getting up to about a current time. So yeah So we're recording on February 7th. And as of now, unless something gets continued... And Alec is scheduled for, i think it's just a hearing on a potential appeal um that'll take place on February 11th. we're just a couple days out from that.
00:00:59
Speaker
After we finish everything, we might have a little bit of an add-on. Yeah. So right now we are at the appeals, right? where I mean, we finished up the trial, and the guilty verdict, and...
00:01:11
Speaker
I think it goes without saying that we knew there'd be
Allegations Against Court Clerk Rebecca Hill
00:01:14
Speaker
appeals involved. so Oh yeah. So we are starting in about the end of 2023. Quick, I'll do a reminder of sources. The Murdaugh Murders, a Southern Scandal on Netflix.
00:01:25
Speaker
The Murdaugh Murders podcast. AP News. And the books Swamp Kings and The Devil at His Elbow. All right. On October 2023, an appeals court allowed Alex to ask the judge to throw out his conviction and ask for a new trial. This was on the grounds of his attorneys accusing a court clerk of influencing the jury.
00:01:52
Speaker
And I think, so the clerk's name we'll talk about is is Rebecca Hill. and And I think it's important to for us to remember as we're going through this, what a court clerk is, especially in a small county like this. Yeah. So when they said like she was in charge of the trial, I mean, this is a clerk. She probably makes $20 an hour and she's- I know it's different, but I'm ah i'm a clerk at a library and i I know it's very different than a court clerk, but like clerk doesn't make a lot of money.
00:02:19
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, but again, she's a court clerk in a tiny little courthouse. I mean, I don't think she... yeah Yeah, getting... I don't think she would have ever anticipated being involved in anything like this. It would have been... So I guess I i wonder if maybe part of this was always Malik's plan. But sorry, move on. So the defense claimed that Rebecca or Becky Hill had a private conversation with the foreperson of the jury. They alleged she pressured jurors to deliberate quickly and told the jurors not to believe the defense evidence.
00:02:52
Speaker
And they claimed that it was Becky Hill that had the one juror removed who was going to vote not guilty. So there is one juror right before deliberations that was removed and an alternate stepped in.
00:03:09
Speaker
And I think it was literally either right before closing arguments or at when deliberations were set to start. Although truth be told, how how would she have known that that particular juror was leading toward a not guilty verdict right and they shouldn't have been just i mean i'm sure that they wouldn't have been discussing the case at all between the jurors so yeah i know um from what i read in the devil at his elbow the defense was upset when this juror was removed like they were expecting that juror to be more sympathetic okay
00:03:43
Speaker
But I don't know. i mean, that doesn't I don't know. That doesn't mean anything really. But who knows? okay So Becky Hill has co-authored a self-published book with Neil Gordon called Behind the
Juror Pressures and Small Town Influences
00:03:56
Speaker
Doors of Justice, the Murdaugh Murders.
00:03:59
Speaker
And the defense's claim was a guilty verdict would help her book sell. she would She would be more profitable with a guilty verdict. It should be noted that now she's also been accused of plagiarism for her self-published book. Just a side note. Yeah. So all this, I mean, I do think back to Myrtle Swamp.
00:04:20
Speaker
kings swamp kings yeah so the where they go back in the history of the family yeah and it it had been i mean this is generations of this family being in this working in this again small county courthouse in this small town where everyone knows everyone and they have a history of like influencing juries as well as you know, the staff at the courthouse. So this wouldn't surprise me, number one, if it's true, really, if if it there was some influence. It also wouldn't surprise me if Murdaugh right from the beginning knew that that was going to be their first line of appeal.
00:04:56
Speaker
So and as far as the claims, first of all, the writing the book just to me feels like it's just a foolish act. Yeah. And a conflict of interest. And I don't know if there's laws around that. That just seems problematic. Definitely.
00:05:12
Speaker
i feel like, I mean, there probably isn't laws around it, but I feel like if jurors can be removed for, you know, my Cousins, uncles, fathers, brothers, sister played soccer in high school with the defendant. And I know it's a small town, so it's incredibly difficult. But I just feel like any sort of anything like that should deem the person not eligible to be the clerk for like maybe they have to send in someone from a different county to be the clerk for this or you know what i mean? like Yeah, yeah. Maybe things will change in and going forward, especially with these smaller towns. But yeah, so that just does seem a little foolish to me. um Curious how the book did. You know, the things about like pressuring the jury to deliberate quickly.
00:06:02
Speaker
I don't know. I mean, I can see that. I can see that happening. Yeah, I can definitely can see that happening a lot. Well, and even so, there's a couple more accusations kind of around that. um One juror said Hill told them they'd go to a hotel for the night if they didn't reach a verdict by 11 which upset some of the jurors who like just wanted to go home.
00:06:22
Speaker
I think it was a ah threat of like, well, you'll be sequestered. If you don't come to a verdict, they're goingnna they're going to keep you away from your family and your house. And some jurors said that Hill told the smokers that they wouldn't be allowed to get a smoke break until they reached a verdict.
00:06:37
Speaker
And then specifically juror 630 said he or she felt pressured to find Alex guilty. And that Hill pressured jurors to only talk to the reporters that she had befriended. Okay. Yeah. And again, this seems like to me ah the action of somebody who's inexperienced it in in over their heads. Yeah. And that, you know, all of that I think can be taken a couple different ways. I mean, yeah, maybe yeah they were going to have to go to a hotel 11 p.m. That just was a fact that had to be, right you know, right that may have still made this individual jurors feel pressured.
00:07:16
Speaker
i mean, or even the smoke break. I don't know the details, but maybe they well had rules against, you know. Right. So. And it's like, I don't know. I just, I think about the OJ Simpson trial when those poor jurors were like sequestered in a hotel without access to television even. can't imagine. For nine months.
00:07:37
Speaker
Like that's. It's inconvenient. It's not fun if you don't. And especially if it's unexpected that, well, you're going to if you don't figure this out by tonight, like you're going to go to a hotel with nothing and just going to go like that's annoying. That
Appeal Witnesses and Judicial Impacts
00:07:51
Speaker
sucks. But it's doable. But is it pressure or do you have to? Right. You have to convey it. I mean, you have to tell. Yeah.
00:07:58
Speaker
Yeah. And I can. I can see just based on some of the accusations that multiple people have said about her that maybe she was, yeah, like a little pushy. I don't see it as grounds for a complete complete appeal and a new new trial. Right.
00:08:13
Speaker
But who knows? What do I know? What do I know? Well, no, I agree. I agree. Also, if I was in that position, honestly, guess I was thinking about this. Would that have impacted you if you were in there deliberating? And yeah, I mean, just she was talking to you you know, you kind of felt like ah if I, did you know, don't. um make you know make my decision quickly. Everyone's going to be impacted. Well, I have this ADHD trait of if someone tells me what to do, I want to do the opposite. So I hate songs when you're at a wedding or something that it's like the song tells you what to do and it's an organized dance everyone does. i'm always like, I don't want to be told what to do. I'll dance how I want.
00:08:56
Speaker
So if i have if I have someone being like, well, this is what's going to happen, I'll be like, I love hotels. Let's take our time. See, and I would be the opposite. I'd be like, i don't want to upset anyone. I don't want to.
00:09:08
Speaker
Fine. i'll Yeah. Okay. I'm just going to, you know, if it was whatever. one If I was the only juror that was still like. um Which in this case, I may have been because I do have different ideas about it. But honest to God, as a human being, I can see myself being like, okay. And I would be like, guys, can we like, we have to do what we're here to do.
00:09:29
Speaker
Like, it does i I would be that person that's that would get angry about it and then double down and be like, well, I think I'd like to order dinner now. Yeah. I don't smoke, but maybe I should start. Yeah. And that's the right, that is the right kind of jerk. Oh, it's not, it's not for a good reason. It's because I'm stubborn and, and I'm like, don't tell me what to do. I'm an adult. I can stay here as long as I want.
00:09:53
Speaker
I don't want the song telling me to stomp three times. Oh, funny enough. We were just at a wedding together. And I did not dance to that song. Yeah.
00:10:05
Speaker
Well, least we didn't do like YMCA or anything. Thank goodness. No chicken dance. There's no chicken dance. All right. But again, I feel like the Mardot team went in like no one. Yeah. Yeah. What would be interesting is that the witnesses that could have been called is Becky Hill herself. But even the judge, Judge Newman and some of the jurors, I think that would have been really interesting to see.
Financial Crimes Guilty Plea and Sentence
00:10:31
Speaker
So they would have been called in the case of the appeal? Yeah. Or to determine if there would be an appeal. No, if there was an appeal and that went to court, they could have been called as witnesses.
00:10:45
Speaker
ah If somehow that conviction had been overturned, Alex would have remained in prison for his financial crimes. And at the time of this, his sentence hadn't even been handed down yet.
00:10:55
Speaker
This was like immediately they filed this. And I mean, I know we've said this before, and and I know a lot of people say that he's going to be in prison the rest of his life ah anyways. Does it really matter? But I also think it's too important to keep remembering that what type of facility, what type of prison you would go to or you do go through to for white collar crimes like financial crimes versus jail.
00:11:20
Speaker
murder. and um And I think we've just seen that recently Ghislaine Maxwell from the Epstein files or debacle saga.
00:11:31
Speaker
Yeah, whatever. And being switched to, you know, from one prison to a much cushier prison where she, I don't know, apparently has a dog. and And so I do think we need to keep that in mind. it It still would make a huge difference, even if he is going to be not be free for the rest of us.
00:11:50
Speaker
Yeah. On November 16th, 2023, Judge Clifton Newman agreed to recuse himself if Alex appeals did go through and he got a new trial. However, he denied the request for him to step down from the financial crimes trial.
00:12:07
Speaker
He was like, i' I'm fine for that. That's funny. Well, because I'm thinking, oh, my God, the problem the guy probably would like is would be love to not have to deal with this stuff anymore. So um actually, yeah. Because I think this was, if I'm remembering correctly in the book, it said this was like his last hurrah before retiring. And he was like, he knew this was, my gosh he was like, and this, he he didn't think it in like a positive way. Like, I'll go down in history for this. But he was like, oh, I got to get through this before I can retire. Like, this is my last hurrah. This will be what my name's linked with. Yeah.
00:12:38
Speaker
Yeah. And can you imagine having to go through that that that actual full trial again? oh my gosh. And can you imagine going through it and not being biased, which I know is, you know, he's a professional. but um Well, I mean, that's a real thing. That's maybe someday we'll do the West Memphis Three case because that's one of my like I always go back to that one. But part of the problem with that is the judge will not recuse her himself.
00:13:05
Speaker
So it's like the judge who found these those three boys guilty is now like any appeal. It goes to him. Any like evidentiary hearing goes to him. And so it wasn't until I think he was elected to a different office. And like the the three um who have been found guilty were like, yeah, vote for him.
00:13:25
Speaker
Get him out of here. so we'll get a new judge finally. Yeah, I wonder I wonder which way ah Alex's team would have preferred. But. Nonetheless, I mean, it still hasn't gone to appeals.
00:13:37
Speaker
I feel like his judge, Judge Newman would have, I feel like he's the kind of judge you want being a judge and would go in as impartial as possible. And just that's the sense I get from him.
00:13:52
Speaker
ah I agree. On November 28th, 2023, Alex pleaded guilty to 22 counts, including fraud and money laundering. This is for the financial crimes. He was sentenced to 27 years in state prison. And part of the plea agreement he made, he was is required to serve at least 85%
Defense Appeal and Evidence Controversies
00:14:14
Speaker
of that time. So he never went he never went to trial for this.
00:14:17
Speaker
He took his took a plea the get-go. Okay. from this from the get-go so Which he'd pretty much said he was guilty to most of the crimes anyways during the the first trial. so And a financial crimes. Proving them is considered ah much easier than than than in criminal, other types of criminal, because that you you have such a paper trail. Yeah.
00:14:41
Speaker
Right, right. Several members of Gloria Satterfield's family addressed the court in addition to loads of other victims from whom Alec had stolen money. Alec apologized to his victims and said he took the plea deal so the victims can, quote, put this behind you.
00:15:00
Speaker
He also apologized to his own family for destroying their reputation And he blamed his opioid addiction for everything. On December 12th, 2023, a 132 page appeal was filed by the defense with the South Carolina Supreme Court. The appeal listed the entire issue of Becky Hill.
00:15:23
Speaker
as one of the reasons of overturning the conviction. The defense argued that there was not enough physical evidence tying Alex to the crime. They never found the weapons.
00:15:34
Speaker
The only blood found was on Alex's clothing, which is some tiny spots. They said that the state investigators' testimony about marking on the cartridges shouldn't have been allowed in.
00:15:47
Speaker
They said that the raincoat that was put into evidence that tested positive for gunshot residue shouldn't have been allowed in. Did they say why that shouldn't have been allowed in? My understanding was the defense argued that Alex was never actually seen wearing a raincoat. that what he was seen in was like he was wrapped in a tarp or holding a tarp, that it was a tarp, not a raincoat, and that was never investigated. And they just took his mother's caretaker, Shelley Smith's word for it, that he was in this raincoat. That was my understanding. i could be wrong. That is my kind of understanding and guess, perhaps.
00:16:28
Speaker
I will say, thinking about it, the lack of physical evidence, the no rifle ever found evidence, And the blood found on the clothing was the tiny spots, which to me, that was just weird. And actually it was to me made him like actually the more, more, more guilty. But anyways, I do think that I'm going to give him credit. I mean, because I do not think that personally, I don't think it was premeditated. I have a different thought on what exactly happened. Not saying he was not guilty, but that's pretty quick thing. thinking on his part to get rid of that evidence so effectively. And I don't know if just his legal background played a role or if that is more of an indication that maybe I'm wrong and maybe it was more premeditated than I thought.
00:17:14
Speaker
Yeah, I don't, I don't know. i I think even what was it like, there's like a 20 minute gap from like when they think the murder happened to when he called 911, even though that's not a ton of time. I think he was with his legal background would know what to do and had enough connections that he probably could have called someone to help him who has not come forward and and is still loyal. I don't know.
00:17:40
Speaker
um yeah And finally, the defense said that the expert with iPhones shouldn't have been allowed in, saying that this expert, how he like tested if the screen would turn on was like he threw it in his office.
00:17:55
Speaker
And they were like, that's not very scientific, like literally threw it, like threw it on the ground to see if the screen would light up. Okay, odd, but I'm not sure if that's the reason for it. Right. peel yeah no that's something i would do like i'd be like oh i wonder if it would just like light up if i threw it
00:18:13
Speaker
i mean yeah i i don't seem to me like it would yeah that that that's too far out of out of the norm yeah um interestingly enough though as we will hear more recently that um there is some issues that have come up yeah with new information about the iPhone. so Yeah.
00:18:32
Speaker
So maybe they should have waited instead of being like, he shouldn't have thrown the phone. like for the stuff one On December 18th, 2023, South Carolina Supreme Court Judge Jean Hofer Toll was chosen to oversee the new trial petition as well as any lower court matters. Interesting notice, she is the first woman ever to serve on the South Carolina Supreme Court.
00:19:00
Speaker
On January 26, 2024, an evidentiary hearing begins for the appeal. All 12 jurors testified as well as Becky Hill. Judge Newman was not forced to testify.
00:19:13
Speaker
On January 29th, 2024, the judge denied the bid for a new trial.
Polygraph Controversy and Federal Charges
00:19:19
Speaker
She said that she thought Rebecca Hill was seeking fame, but she did not think that the jury was swayed by any potential comments made by Hill.
00:19:28
Speaker
She also said she wasn't sure if she actually believed Hill's testimony about not making comments to the jury, but also feels like that wouldn't have changed the outcome. Right, that gets a little confusing. It does get confusing. because especially because one juror testified that she was he or she was influenced by the things becky hill was saying the other 11 said that they were not influenced but all you need is one dissenting voice for not guilty and the defense is appealing the judge's decision about the appeal my gosh just could go on forever at these cases
00:20:04
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. on March 29th, 2024, as part of the plea agreement for the financial crimes, Alex was given a polygraph test that he failed.
00:20:14
Speaker
Failing a polygraph violates the plea agreement. So, I mean, this is really interesting, I think. Yeah. I think it's interesting that it was part of the plea. Me too. Because, i mean, we know, um most people know i polygraph tests are not admissible in court. But, yeah i mean, this was a plea deal. So, I mean, it's something he agreed to. i'm shocked he agreed to it. I am too. First of all, at all. I am too. And and also, was it focused on the financial crimes or was it going back and questioning him also about the murder? That's what I kind of wonder. It should have just been the financial crimes because it was part of that trial.
00:20:55
Speaker
But one of Alec's defense attorneys said that the examiner engaged in quote, odd conduct before the exam. they said that the questions were designed to make alex fail they said that the examiner
Legal Strategies and Plea Deal Interpretations
00:21:10
Speaker
told alex that he didn't believe he was guilty of the murders and then like kind of bragged to alex that he had just done an exam related to the natalie holloway murder so i mean if he did say that like i don't think you're guilty okay that that seems like a major issue the other stuff kind of seems like
00:21:27
Speaker
I don't know. You probably. Yeah, chitcha that's my thought. I mean, you have to talk about something and questions designed to make someone fail. was't i that That's kind of. Yeah, because I also and maybe I'm wrong, but I would imagine that if you agree to this in the plea deal, I would say as a defendant, I want my team to look over the questions first.
00:21:50
Speaker
That would just make sense to me, but I don't know. well okay. So then also if it was part of the plea and he didn't pass it, but the plea deal still, he still got the plea deal. I believe part of that plea deal was, um, just that he had to take it or he had to pass it.
00:22:08
Speaker
No, I think it was it. He had to pass it, but it was also, I think this was how he only got state charges, not federal charges. Okay. Because now that the vi that it's been violated, prosecutors are opening the door to recommending federal charges.
00:22:25
Speaker
So that's my understanding. The other thing that Murdoch's attorney said was that Alex and the examiner argued over the definition of the word assets, which after finishing The Devil at His Elbow and like reading through just like the interactions when he was on the stand, it's like, I totally believe that he was like arguing with the polygraph examiner about the word assets. Yeah. it's just like who he is right oh yeah who he is and i mean i feel like that lawyer and him just but i also at the same time agree i'm like trying to pick myself taking a a polygraph and and then you know a lot of questions then you know it could be based on interpretation a little bit and it it would which is part of why it's not admissible right right so i have to say it would freak me out to take one
00:23:20
Speaker
Oh yeah. I feel like I would fail just because I have too much anxiety. that Me too. I feel like I'd fail no matter what. I think that all the time, even watching, like, I think it's Vanity Fair. We'll do polygraphs with two celebrities. but even then I'm like, I would just fail.
00:23:37
Speaker
I would just overthink the questions. Yeah. Be like, you're trying to trick me. Which is what Alex claimed. Right. So the purpose of the polygraph exams were to try to figure out co-conspirators and And locate any funds that could be returned to the victims.
00:23:57
Speaker
Okay, that makes sense. It does make sense. Because I know, I mean, Alec's former law firm is on the hook for repaying victims. And they did come up with the money to do it. Yeah.
00:24:08
Speaker
So maybe it was, maybe he agreed to it to kind of try to do something right by his...
Appeal Developments and New Trial Prospects
00:24:15
Speaker
former co-workers and colleagues, but who knows? to Just say they were were not that he he did it on his own. even just like, I don't know, like, look, I'm acting in good faith to try to help you find these funds. yeah Maybe. I don't know. That's probably giving him a lot of credit.
00:24:32
Speaker
And finally, with the appeal on April 15th, 2025, South Carolina Supreme Court granted prosecutors more time to respond to the appeal. they were given 120 extension.
00:24:47
Speaker
And it seemed like the thing they were going to focus most on was the jury tampering by Becky Hill portion of it. And this is the appeal of the judge's decision going forth with an appeal. Okay.
00:25:03
Speaker
Gotcha. So that is kind of where things hung in limbo for a while. we next episode, there have been some updates since then. hi But yeah, I don't know. I get annoyed that,
00:25:17
Speaker
Becky Hill made choices she did. I get annoyed at everybody making choices they did. they can They can get away with anything. Yeah, I get annoyed. I can understand some of them. um You know, it makes me think in the end, how much did she end up spending on legal fees versus... like profits from the book or whatever you know so yeah yeah right but it it uh when i i googled her today uh the one of the first things that popped up was the link to amazon to purchase her book so interesting yeah i would much rather read blanca's book let's let's support blanca
00:25:54
Speaker
ah Yes. And I would love to read it. Actually, we need to. Yeah, I agree. All right. That's that's kind of all I got for this weird appeal process that just seems exhausting.
00:26:05
Speaker
I mean, it's a short episode, but yeah, exhausting. But it feels a little boring too. Yeah. Exhausting and boring. That's what you come here for. So to tune in next week.
00:26:17
Speaker
ah Well, yes. Yeah. So next time we'll talk about, we'll get up to present day and ah hopefully by the time that episode is ready to come out, we'll have a bit of an update with what's going on with the, up the possible new trial. Who knows? But we'll have some hopefully more information about that that we can kind of tack on.
00:26:40
Speaker
Yeah. And I actually wonder i am if we could get our hands on the Blanca's who is the housekeeper's book. I don't think it's a real long read. I wouldn't mind reading through that and maybe doing one episode because it just does give some new insights to to everything, to the whole case. So.
00:26:58
Speaker
Yeah, I would totally be. i think that's great idea. I'd love to do that. All right. Well, tune in next week, guys. See you later. Bye.