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The Death of Mica Acacia Francis, Part 28
57 Plays30 days ago
We walk through the indictment of John Paul Miller, and discuss the arraignment. Is justice coming?
Note: This episode was recorded before the arraignment. Check out episode 79 to hear Nikki discuss the outcome of the hearing.
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Mica's Law and Mica's List - Provided by Luna Shark Media
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Transcript
Introduction and Case Focus
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to Fixate Today Gone Tomorrow. I am Nikki and I'm here with my Aunt Joy. We are two neurodivergent ladies who obsess about various topics. Joy is autistic and I have ADHD and we are letting our hyperfixations fly.
00:00:16
Speaker
Today we are fixating on the death of Micah Frances Miller. Music
00:00:30
Speaker
Hi, everybody. Hello. In a plot twist, we're not releasing a Murda episode this week. No, it's hard though. I like it. I know. We have so much. I can't because Murda were right to the trial. I know. swear We have get so much to
Legal Maneuvers and Business Entanglements
00:00:45
Speaker
say. But because we have spent so much time following Micah Francis case, we thought we should jump in, have another update episode and talk about what's happening tomorrow. um We are recording on January 11th and tomorrow, John Paul Miller is being arraigned.
00:01:06
Speaker
um in the charges he's been indicted, federally indicted with charges he's been federally indicted for. You know, i you're the English lady.
00:01:20
Speaker
So we wanted to, I know it'll be released after um the arraignment, But we did want to hop on and kind of talk through some of the like what the charges are, how they line up with the events we know happened, what we think he's going to plea and just get some kind of go in a little bit deeper on the indictment itself. And if they do announce something tomorrow, I don't know if what what we'll hear. But maybe we could tack on a little follow up just to. Yeah. Yeah. i We could even do a quick even one of us. Hey, this is what happened and pop it out onto our feed real quick. So we'll see what happens tomorrow.
00:01:56
Speaker
Before we jump in, going do sources as always. True Sunlight Podcast. Content creator Robbie Harvey. Content creator Agatha Mae Detective Agency. Content creator Justin on TikTok.
00:02:10
Speaker
ABC News. The U.S. s Department of Justice. and the U.S. Attorney's Office of the District of South Carolina. All right, so before we go indictment, I just want to give, there's just some random little little nuggets of updates that I want to throw in, but one is very, very interesting given what is happening right now.
00:02:29
Speaker
So the first one is on January 6th of 2026, Regina Ward held a press conference. If you'll remember, Regina is the attorney who represented Micah in the divorce and then went on to represent her family in lawsuits with JP.
00:02:46
Speaker
She held a press conference and stated that JP had dropped his appeal in the San Rickman judgment and has paid the jury award with interest. So JP made a smart decision, decided to drop everything against Sam Rickman. Sam Rickman is a former church member who jp sued I don't even remember what he sued for, for like libel or something like that, for speaking out against him and sharing some information that he had about Micah and JP's interactions.
00:03:17
Speaker
JP had sued him. That's when he... Oh, go ahead. Yeah, he got... That was when JP had that slew of Yeah, like 21 lawsuits. Yeah. All around. Sam was one of them. i think all of the rest, basically, the judge dismissed. um This one...
00:03:31
Speaker
The Sam Rickman actually won. JP had to pay something like $3,500 or something like that. I think that's probably in JP's best interest to just let's move on from this. We've got some bigger things happening.
00:03:42
Speaker
That's done. JP's got that behind him now. The next couple of things are all related. And Joy, I'm very excited for your thoughts on these things. We we haven't talked over these. So this is fresh info for me. No. Yeah, I'm excited. So before the federal indictment came down and JP was served,
00:04:01
Speaker
About a month before, November 4th, 2025, Mark Kaufman filed a new LLC called Ka-Chao Global. Ka-Chao references a line that Lightning McQueen says in the Pixar movie Cars.
00:04:17
Speaker
That's so funny. You know when I read that, I thought it was like Krakow, like Krakow, Poland. Nope. I was like, oh, I thought there was like this. yeah I was giving him so much credit for like maybe being oh never worldly. No, quite the opposite.
00:04:33
Speaker
Oh, Mark. ah um So that happened. Ten days later, JP filed paperwork to make Mark the power of attorney over his stock interests.
00:04:45
Speaker
Now that does not... surprise me at all. Well, except for Susie. Except for there's Susie in the picture now. Because like cause part of me is thinking, like, who else would he have Well, and in addition to this, he granted Mark his stock ownerships in Flipside 3.
00:05:06
Speaker
let's let's Let's talk about that. Flipside 3 is the, I guess, overall company that owns Crocodile Rocks. And there's been several iterations of it. There's been a there's also a Flipside 1 and a Flipside 2. Yeah.
00:05:20
Speaker
The other owners of Crocodile Rocks have been involved in those. We've talked about craig Craig Smith, I think. And I know when I spoke to JP, he talked about a guy named, I want to say William King, who I'd never heard of anywhere else, but I believe he spoke to me about him as being part owner too. So, well, I want to talk a little bit about this because didn't JP tell you he didn't own Crocodile Rocks anymore?
00:05:50
Speaker
Um, I know he said it was ill. It was ill specific. Okay.
Church Involvement and Real Estate Transactions
00:05:54
Speaker
I know he said it publicly. yeah That he wasn't an owner, but he did that thing he does. And he still had the stock ownerships and flip side three. Yeah. I don't. Yeah. I think that was one of those things where, where I told you, like, I don't feel like he lied to me about things, but that was what like, yep.
00:06:14
Speaker
But I can't remember exactly how maybe he said it. um Yeah. So to me, that says that's like what he does, right? He doesn't own Crocodile Rocks anymore, but he still has ownership in Flipside 3, which owns Crocodile Rocks. Now, I will say and that he told me his source of income at this point was borrowing or, yeah, Mark Kaufman lending him money was what he was basically living on. Now, I think yeah whatever, i think their finances are somehow intertwined. Absolutely. Yeah.
00:06:49
Speaker
So I think this is more JP hiding assets because it happened a month before the indictment. So that's all I think it is. I think he's hiding more assets. think he's hiding them or money laundering was going on and there's stashes of money in different places that is owned by questionable.
00:07:11
Speaker
Sources are are questionable where it came from. i don't know. Yeah. So I apologize for this next thing because I took a chunk out of ah my notes apparently and didn't put it in here, but I'll, I remember it. So yeah, I will say I've always thought that Mark Kaufman is somewhat of a central figure in this. I do say that um having told Mark Kaufman that to his face. So that being said, he was a nice guy when I met him. So, you know, there was nothing about him outright creepy or anything, but.
00:07:43
Speaker
um I still have always thought that he plays a central role. One reason um that I never really got into too much, but there is some like he owns, there's other businesses in that Grand Strand area that his name that he's associated with, that he's used other aliases that then are associated with those other companies.
00:08:05
Speaker
And I feel like there's probably others, there's restaurants that maybe innocent bystanders in that. And that's why I never really talked about him anymore. But I think there's more businesses even in that area that he's involved in and and what what that has to do, money laundering, importing, I don't know. But but there's something I think that has happened.
00:08:27
Speaker
Yeah. Also will say, and I've said this before, that the one thing that the when I met Mark Kaufman, he was surprised I had gone to Crocodile Rocks. Yeah, I think that's so interesting.
00:08:39
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. Like, it was kind of like, oh, and oh you went there? You know, I don't know. I don't know. It's the thing of, like, we've talked about him so much, and some people have mentioned him, but, like, I just don't know why people aren't focusing on him more. just seems to be kind of some central role. And maybe his surprise that you went is like, oh, she's focusing on me, too.
00:09:03
Speaker
I don't know. I don't know. I don't but it's i don't know. Or a little part of me, and I... I always give people benefit of the doubt. Like a little part of me was like, maybe it wasn't the safest place to go. I don't know, no, no. I mean, I don't know.
00:09:17
Speaker
I'll take that out. Cause I don't, I'm giving to benefit. Yeah, it was just, yeah, it was just like, yeah it was like one thing that I noticed that was kind of, it seems surprising. Like there's very few things I said that were like, oh, that kind of surprised. But like, that was one yeah that I could i could tell. but That being said, I mean, even when I was at Crocodile Rocks, I didn't, there was nothing that strange about it to me that stuck out. Yeah. i mean Yeah. It's a tourist place. There's a lot of like old people there singing. I mean, it was, i mean and again, it's kind of fun, but, but there's so much activity and different stuff going on. I could see how things,
00:09:55
Speaker
it could be covering for something yeah there could be stuff going on you know behind the scenes that that you know the environment covers so all right sorry go on with your i found my notes so after that all happened these stock Ownership things changed hands. On November 14th, Mercy Church Ministries bought a house in JP's neighborhood. It's like a $300,000 house.
00:10:23
Speaker
And so this was kind of under, I believe Mark Kaufman's name is associated with this as well. Oh, yeah. But it's important that the ministry bought it. The business bought it. JP didn't buy it.
00:10:35
Speaker
It's not in his name. It's in Mercy Church's name. Do we know – okay, who's Mercy Church – whose name is Mercy Church? I can't remember. I have it in documents somewhere. I would have to go back and look, but I cannot remember. I feel like that's a Kauffman one. was going say – yeah, because the churches got started being – I mean, even like – I think even Tom Winslow had – Tom Winslow's on one. Susie's on one. JP's grandmother. So I am.
00:11:02
Speaker
Trish's grandmother. Like it's, yeah, i but I want, i I don't quote me on it, but I do think that's a Mark Kaufman one. This past Monday, and I haven't seen anything about it. Granted, I didn't look terribly hard because I'm really great at my job. On January 8th, the Horry County Planning Commission heard from Living Water Church and which again is a one of those many ministries. I don't know why it heard from this entity and not Mercy Church Ministries, but they did. It heard from this church to rezone a parcel of the land that they purchased with this house for, quote, commercial retail development.
00:11:45
Speaker
I'd really like to see i'd really like to see the address of this house and where it's located. Yeah. Because ah knowing that the land that they had bought for the church to expand or whatever they were saying, it's like right there. And all this land, i we never really got into it because I felt like I would bore everyone. But I did like get into a lot of research about the who owned this land and who sold it. And there was a lot of background going back to like,
00:12:19
Speaker
when they all, all of these players were kind of like young and how it was all tied up and like, and a lot had to do with who owned this land. Like I, like I felt like there's some connection somehow. oh yeah Also there's a, uh, on JP's mortgage to his current house, which we know was sort like in the name of the church. It was also in the name of another gentleman. I think it was one of our, um, one of our viewers who, kind of sent us a tip on that. And I did research that too. And I'm sorry, I'm blanking on his name right now. um But um he's on he was on JP's mortgage also. He was the developer. I believe he developed the neighborhood where JP lives and owned the land that's, again, connected where the church had purchased.
00:13:06
Speaker
like he Remember, he like had built the police department building. Yes, yes. Oh, gosh. Yep. The name's right there. And we we talked a bit about them and then weren't able to
Federal Indictment and Legal Proceedings
00:13:18
Speaker
get back to it. So I do think there's a whole land development element involved in all this too. Yeah. I'd like to go back through and look through all of these LLC mortgage asset documents. Yeah.
00:13:33
Speaker
At some point and try to make heads or tails of it because my brain doesn't work that way. like I don't understand them. but And and i thought i was I thought I would bore everyone with them. because I did really get into it, but I'm like, I don't think anyone else going to be interested in all this. I care deeply, but it just is.
00:13:49
Speaker
It's one of like my ADHD things doesn't process that way. Like, it just doesn't make sense to me, but maybe I could actually. Well, also we started getting told like, okay, it's time to move on from Micah. But I mean, there was so much more yeah out there, but it was, it was getting away from, from Micah specifically and getting more into the big picture and bigger picture and bigger picture, which I found so interesting, but a lot of listeners like They they kind of want to hear more the core story. But the amazing part is like when you start researching, like even like this whole land and like you like the old Air Force, because it used to be an old Air Force base and how they redeveloped it and how there was the different tax breaks. It is. I'm sorry. we're I'm totally getting on a tangent here. But I get i think it matters. interesting. And it all sort of ties, I think, in some way back. do think it's all important.
00:14:43
Speaker
I just don't understand how and I don't understand the words of it all. I could keep going so deep on this stuff, but I know that not that many people are interested. Well, maybe I'll put on my own to do list to to compile all of those documents that I have all over the place into one spot.
00:15:03
Speaker
And add it to my big master list of stuff I have. And then combine them. And have them order. Right. So basically, Nikki, organize it. And then I go in there after she organizes it and try to put thoughts in. Yes. Because that's only way we work together. And then I go, oh.
00:15:22
Speaker
And I go, oh, I would never have organized this. And I'm like, I'm so confused. At least I can organize. Yeah. All right. So those are the couple updates. Okay, sorry. back to Mark Coffman. Was there anything more about Mark Coffman then? No, I didn't see about the planning commission if they actually did meet last week. If any movement forward with that or anything, it's just like we were kind saying, it's all very interesting, this land stuff and Mark Coffman's name being a lot of places. And I think the biggest thing I wanted to leave people with is like, if JP still had partial ownership, even a flip side three, When he says he doesn't own Crocodile Rocks, he's manipulating his words.
00:16:05
Speaker
Like he's doing the thing we know he does. He owns the pair there's yeah the parent company, not necessarily directly, i mean, but directly. the the entity, but there is a parent company and having shares in a parent company. And he does the thing we know he does. And I think that's kind of, that was my biggest thing. I think everything else is interesting and important, but that was like, here's exactly what he does.
00:16:29
Speaker
And it's very, yeah. And that, yeah. i Again, I think what he says, you have to really check the words and you have to see what he omits. And I think he does not directly lie as much as he's very good with his words. Yeah. Yes, agreed.
00:16:47
Speaker
so Shall we move on to the indictment itself? all right. Do you want to give a bit of a rundown about like what an indictment is and what the arraignment is? Because I know some people are thinking like he's going to this arraignment and he's going to be sent to jail. And like, that's not what's happening on Monday. Right. It could be, but it's probably not.
00:17:08
Speaker
Probably not. Yeah. So, okay. So we know that he has the federal indictment. So he's, it's the first time he's going to court over this case. Right. Yeah. um And let's talk about first how a federal indictment happens. So we go back to like a grand jury. And honestly, I never really even understood what a grand jury is. do you get like So a grand jury is very secretive.
00:17:32
Speaker
It's still a jury of like peers. It's still people. Um, who get um blanking on the word ah when you have to go to jury duty. So, I mean, it's still just regular people get called to jury duty. Yeah, I think my mom was on a grand jury once. Really? I've never been. think it'd be cool. So it's a group of citizens. It's typically like 16 to 23 people. And so what they do is that like...
00:17:59
Speaker
Like when it's a potential crime, they're deciding if prospect like if they have enough evidence to even like move forward and um I guess investigate it further. Yeah. So that there's not a ton of of.
00:18:13
Speaker
of cases out there that are unjustified, right? So a big example is, and a weird example, is a grand jury voted to indict JonBenet Ramsey's parents saying that there was enough evidence and the prosecutor still decided not to go forward with it.
00:18:33
Speaker
But that was an instance that like a grand jury said like, yeah, you could you could get a guilty verdict in this case. We think that a jury would be compelled to listen to what this evidence is. And that's unusual because I think a lot of times once you get to that yeah point, um it's thought that that that most people – that that there there's a big chance that the person is found yeah guilty. Yeah. And um that wasn't – it was so secretive nobody knew that happened until the last couple years Interesting. That's a that's good yeah point. So, yeah. So, these proceedings are secret. They don't involve, like –
00:19:10
Speaker
defense attorneys ah um at all. It's just simply putting out the evidence there is. And it's not like ruling of guilt or no guilt. And it's just like, it's not, it's just a preponderance of the evidence. So it's like, if there's 50% chance, basically you think, or over a 50% chance, you think that a crime may have been committed. then that's how they get to the to the point of writing up but ah an indictment. Okay. that's what the indictment is. So it's still not saying anyone's guilty. It's just, okay, this are there's enough here that we need that there needs to be a trial.
00:19:47
Speaker
Well, the that's the grand jury, right? The indictment is the list of charges or what he would be facing. Right. Okay. Right. So then, okay. So the grand, so then, so we got the indictment, right? And then the next thing that happens is the the arraignment. The arraignment is what is happening or is scheduled for January 12th, which as of our recording is tomorrow.
00:20:08
Speaker
That's happening at a federal court in Florence. So in the arraignment, it's it's actually kind of a, so it's not like a huge, it's kind of a short format. So, but it is the first formal court appearance. So that's when the defendant goes in, is like officially ah informed of the charges against them. Although we know that, right? Because of the indictment, but. It's like the judge is reading the charges. It's officially on record. Yeah.
00:20:36
Speaker
yeah the defendants up advised of their rights. Right. And like, like if a person needed a like public defender, they this is where they one would be granted. um We know that J.P. Miller has his own, he has hired his own independent defense lawyers. but but this But the really important thing, I think, is this is where the defendant enters their plea, their initial plea, which would be guilty, not guilty, or no contest. Yeah.
00:21:11
Speaker
And this is why I wanted to have a little bit of a discussion about. Yeah. And I'm going to backtrack a little to something I've said in the past that I think is key. When there was an FBI raid on JP's house, there was dozens of agents and evidence response teams. And they um they took a lot of evidence, lot of computers, a lot of tech and tech equipment.
00:21:36
Speaker
For me, it seems to me that that is disproportionate to the crimes listed in the indictment. I feel like there was more going on with the raid. So do you want to walk through the indictment, like kind of the the bones of the indictment, and then we'll talk about what we think his plea will be?
00:21:57
Speaker
Yes. I'm going to let you walk through bones of indictment, though. Okay, cool. All right. So after we do this, I think we're going to get a little bit deeper into what we think he's going to say tomorrow.
00:22:09
Speaker
mr yeah The indictment gets a little long and detailed. This is kind of the FBI did put out a press release though, that kind of summarized, I would say. What was the date they released it?
00:22:20
Speaker
Um, so the date is December 18th, which was the day he was indicted. um the press release, it was released by the U S attorney's office district of South Carolina.
Speculations and Broader Implications
00:22:32
Speaker
um and, uh, Let me see. It was the title is Myrtle Beach pastor indicted for cyber stalking wife before her death. A federal grand jury in Columbia returned two count indictment against John Paul Miller, 46 of Myrtle Beach for cyber stalking and making false statements to federal investigators.
00:22:55
Speaker
The indictment alleges that beginning in November 2022, Miller sent unwanted and harassing communications to his estranged wife until her death on April 27, 2024.
00:23:08
Speaker
The harassing behavior included Miller posting a nude photo of the victim online without her consent, causing causing tracking devices to be placed on her vehicle, and in one instance, contacting her over 50 times in a single day.
00:23:24
Speaker
The indictment also alleges he interfered with her finances and her daily activities and on one occasion damaged her vehicle tires. Federal investigators interviewed Miller about these allegations and Miller lied in his responses.
00:23:40
Speaker
Miller said he did not damage the victim's tires when in fact he purchased a tire deflation device online and sent messages to others recordinging regarding the victim's vehicle.
00:23:52
Speaker
Miller faces a maximum penalty of five years in prison for cyber stalking and two years in prison for his false statements. He also faces a fine up to $250,000. His is scheduled for January in federal court in Florence.
00:24:12
Speaker
The case was investigated by the FBI Columbia Field Office, the South Carolina Law Enforcement Division, the Myrtle Beach Police Department, the Horry County Police Department, the Horry County Sheriff's Office, and Robeson County, North Carolina Sheriff's Office.
00:24:28
Speaker
Assistant U.S. s Attorneys L.E. Klein and Katie Stoughton are prosecuting the case. Assistant U.S. Attorneys L.E. Klein and Kathleen Stoughton are prosecuting the case.
00:24:41
Speaker
They said it twice. I didn't read it twice, said it twice. All charges in the indictment are merely accusations and defendants are presumed innocent unless and until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law.
00:24:55
Speaker
So maybe it's me, but I feel like that kind of downplays what the indictment says to some extent.
Conclusion and Future Topics
00:25:06
Speaker
I think the indictment sounds a lot worse than what their press release did.
00:25:11
Speaker
I don't know. But the one thing that really did stood out to me is the cyber stalking maximum of up to five years in prison.
00:25:22
Speaker
Because they' that's a standard sentence for like standard cyber stalking. There are other levels of it. So there's um like aggravated cases. And the sentencing for that can be much longer. And that's if the stalking... is part of a broader pattern of egregious harassment, involves other crimes like child pornography or identity theft or violates a criminal order.
00:25:48
Speaker
Or there's even like life imprisonment in which the cyber stalking activity results in a death of a victim. So I guess what I've, what I, I mean, I think it was obvious to almost everyone that cyber stalking occurred.
00:26:01
Speaker
Yeah. I find it interesting that, They did not, they're not um accusing him on an aggravated, like he's being accused on the standard sentence.
00:26:15
Speaker
I guess that's what yeah that that's what I found somewhat interesting. so Also, yeah, his false statements that he made were about the tire deflation device. And um again, I thought that wording was interesting didn't necessarily say he used it. It said he caused it to be used. So I'm wondering if he was working with someone. I also think that is probably like legal speak that keeps it from being, yeah ah it's like the guilty proven innocent type of like, I don't know, towing the line of how you say things that could also be that.
00:26:54
Speaker
I guess I thought of um like my mind went to like the private investigator he hired and When they say causing it to be used, did he maybe direct someone to use it instead of being the one who physically used it? So that that's what I was thinking. That makes sense too. yeah so He facilitated the use. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I'm going to kind of was wondering about and i do think it doesn't say here but i think one of the other items that they said he lied about was the whole making 50 calls in one day which yeah just does definitely seem obsessive but i don't know why you'd lie about that it seems very ah like easy to trace that well i think we'll we'll talk about that in the next episode um because there's a lot about that
00:27:37
Speaker
That I want to kind of get into. So I do. There was another statement released maybe the day after from special agent in charge Kevin Moore of the FBI Columbia.
00:27:48
Speaker
And this was an official statement. The defendant's alleged actions were predatory, measured and inflicted profound trauma to the victim, her family and loved ones. While this indictment marks the first phase of the criminal process, it represents a crucial step toward accountability.
00:28:04
Speaker
We hope this step offers a measure of peace as the healing continues for the family. To me, that says, i hope i hope what that is saying is more is coming. That it is the, what do you say, the first phase? Yeah, I think, yeah, to me, what it's saying is more is coming, but we need to address...
00:28:26
Speaker
and Initially, the pain, suffering that Micah endured, and maybe maybe more is coming on yeah an additional things he was involved in.
00:28:40
Speaker
But yeah, this is most important to be addressed. Yeah, that's what it says to me too. Yeah. Yeah, that's me. I think the same. All right. Let's talk about the indictment itself. There's this the statement they released about the indictment. Let's talk about what it says, I guess.
00:28:57
Speaker
So i I think it's important um to note that the arraignment is scheduled in Florence, South Carolina. It's where the federal court is, I believe. That is 90 minutes away from Horry County, think.
00:29:11
Speaker
think if this does go to trial, i think it matters that he will very unlikely have Horry County jury pool. And i we're reading ah we're reading a an Alex Murdoch book right now. And yeah, Murdoch had his hands in a lot of people in his town, in his county. And I think it's important that JP is not going to have that.
00:29:36
Speaker
You'd get a more unbiased jury, hopefully. Yeah. Unbiased and people that he it doesn't know or don't know him. And I think that's good both ways. But in just thinking how we know JP can manipulate language. I would be concerned of having a jury pool made up of people who could potentially know him or have gone to church or anything like that. i also think we've heard a lot about Florence being the hub of criminal, like kind of a hub of a lot more criminal activity. Don't know don't know how that would play with and rulings in a case like this. Yeah. How the federal, well, even like how the federal court ended up there.
00:30:15
Speaker
But Florence does get wrapped up in a lot of accusations. Yeah. Related. um ah Other types of smuggling. All right. Let's talk about JP's attorneys. He is represented by Nathan Stewart Williams and Andrew Burke Mormon.
00:30:33
Speaker
So this is, this is very interesting to me. um Andrew Mormon represented Doc Antle. In his I believe it was a trafficking His trafficking case so do He had a whole bunch of He had a whole bunch of stuff yeah He had he had like they yeah he had like all down to like animal cruelty Up to yeah Trafficking Up yeah to money laundering There was a lot and Do we remember so Doc Antle for those who do not know Is one of the Leads from the the Reality show the the Tiger King Yeah
00:31:10
Speaker
He lived in this area. i think he grew up in this area. side note, he um he also owned a DeLorean. Don't know why that's always stuck out in my head.
00:31:22
Speaker
Just seemed weird. um But yeah he and and yeah, he was convicted of several several several crimes. So I would imagine whoever this attorney is a little bit more high powered than...
00:31:34
Speaker
Yeah. So Mormon has also was on the defense team for a man named Zachary Hughes, who was convicted of killing Christina Parcel in 2021. This was a super weird case. I don't know that much about it, but I'm trying really hard not to deep dive it because I think I would get obsessed. So he he somehow was convinced that.
00:31:56
Speaker
that Parcel was a danger to her child. He didn't have a connection to this woman, except that he had some sort of connection to her ex, the child's father. And Christina, Parcel, and the ex were in a contentious custody battle. And so this guy who doesn't know her stabbed her more than 30 times and then scattered rose petals around her body and the crime scene.
00:32:23
Speaker
there's nu This is kind of crazy. Right? So that was Mormon represented him as well. And interestingly, this was a true sunlight thing that it's like a real, like real reach, but also like, huh, weird coincidence. Zachary Hughes was also a pianist from the Greenville area, like Mark Kaufman. There's something about this piano.
00:32:42
Speaker
I know. just It's just, there's something, there's a connection. There's a piano teacher somewhere. There's something. Right? There's a bad piano teacher. Something that... There's something either in the genes in the area that people are... Right.
00:32:58
Speaker
So the other attorney, Nathan Williams, represented Jamie Kamorski. She, in 2023, hit a golf cart with her car while she was driving drunk in Folly Beach, South Carolina, A bride and a groom, like brand new newlyweds being driven in a golf cart. And two other people were in the golf cart. The bride, Samantha Miller, was killed. The other three, including the groom, were severely injured.
00:33:25
Speaker
So Williams represented her and Williams was one of the assistant U.S. attorneys who prosecuted Dylann Roof. Dylann Roof, I can't even remember the year, but he went into a black church in South Carolina, sat down, prayed with them, spoke to them, and then killed nine people in a very blatant white supremacist racist attack.
00:33:49
Speaker
So how is JP affording these attorneys to I do want to say, first of all, that last one, the second one, did you say his name was? Williams. Interesting that he has worked on both sides of the law.
00:34:02
Speaker
That he was a prosecutor and is a defense attorney. And his defense attorney now started, like, got pretty high up as a A prosecutor, assistant U.S. attorney. Which, so you'd make connections, you'd know a lot of the judges. And we kind of saw some patterns like that, too, with Alex Murdaugh.
00:34:20
Speaker
um So, I mean, first of all, that kind of sticks out to me as interesting. Yeah. But i okay. So how is, I thought, I was trying to think about, yes, how he is affording these attorneys. I mean, I, again, i go back to the fact that he told me Mark Kaufman is lending him money, which I don't know what that means, but to me, like there may be pools of money somewhere that maybe they're connected with. um He did sell the church.
00:34:50
Speaker
And as much as I think nobody really wants to face, like, I i think he got all that money. Like, He owned the church. And that was, a it it was in the millions or at least over a million, right? Yeah. I think it was like 2 million.
00:35:02
Speaker
Yeah. So, I mean, with no knowledge that or everything going there was no mortgage, it was paid for. I mean, that was a lot of money. Yeah. He's also married to Susie.
00:35:14
Speaker
She sold her home. I presume she is still working. I'm, I'm guessing she also gets widow benefits. Yeah. Which isn't a lot, but she gets some sort of income through that. Yes. Yeah.
00:35:26
Speaker
And I know, again, when I so have spoken to JP that he told me he had been contacted by Universal Production Company as well as, I think, another production company.
00:35:36
Speaker
Don't know if that, you know, where that led, where it could lead, if that if there could have been a yeah payment involved. Yeah. but Well, also, I believe it was November 4th, around the time that he signed over ownership stock ownerships to Mark. he did a He gave a sermon where he was begging the congregation to, he said it was a life or death moment for them and for him that. to raise him up in prayer. He asked people to, um to fast on different things. I need, he said, I need 12 people to commit to fasting from your phone or fasting from food or fasting from something. Lift me up in prayer and maybe really tithe, like extra tithe, like super tithe.
00:36:23
Speaker
super ti Super tithe. And that what that was in, it seemed like in preparation for indictment being handed down. Yeah. Yeah. So. So is he. i and i which Which church is he? Mercy. Mercy mercy Church.
00:36:39
Speaker
Mercy is the active one now? Because. and Do we know what building? Or do we know? I don't know. They're posting on YouTube still. Oh, interesting. When it just gives a sermon. And. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Interesting. All right. So let's move on from attorneys. In the indictment, it just lists it. It says victim one over and over. I just want to make that very clear. The victim one is Micah.
00:36:58
Speaker
The indictment spans from November 2022 to April
00:37:05
Speaker
in our In the next episode, we're going to walk through that timeline. And I basically pulled everything from the indictment and matched it up on the timeline that we've gone through. It's basically factually like what happened on those days in this case.
00:37:21
Speaker
So we're going to talk all through that. right. So in the indictment, it lists intent to kill, injure, harass, intimidate, or place under surveillance with the intent to kill, injure, harass, or intimidate. It's one of the things that's being alleged. using The means of doing this was using interactive computer services, electronic computer services, electronic communication systems of interstate commerce, etc. and other facilities of interstate and foreign commerce.
00:37:50
Speaker
And this placed victim one in reasonable fear of death, serious bodily injury, and conduct that was meant to cause victim one substantial emotional distress.
00:38:01
Speaker
The indictment alleges that JP sent or caused unwanted harassing electronic communications, used or threatened to use nude photographs and videos, posted a nude photograph online, used or caused to be placed tracking devices on vehicles, placed victim one under surveillance to harass or intimidate damaged victim one's vehicle,
00:38:27
Speaker
interfered with victim one's finances and banking and interfered with victim one's daily activities. Then the indictment alleges that on October 17th, 2024, JP made a false fictitious or and or fraudulent statement. So that's the lying to investigators bit.
00:38:47
Speaker
So that is kind of that's kind of how the indictment was laid out. um I do agree that the press release that came out with the indictment, I think they give clarity to one another, but also actually like kind of make it a little more cloudy at the same time. I think ah ah like because ah in the official indictment.
00:39:07
Speaker
Kind of ah with, you know, ah their stronger language when they use with intent to kill, harass, intimidate. Yeah. I guess kill strikes me. Yeah. that That's where like, ah yeah strikes me as as a lot. And it it wasn't mentioned in the press release, but I mean, injure, harass, intimidate. Well, and I think it's likely the the law because the indictment is just like saying the laws that he probably broke. And that's probably how the law was written.
00:39:30
Speaker
That's my guess. Yeah. All right. So then. All right. So he's going to go. He's going to court. On Monday. right, Nikki. All right. So given these charges, he's, he's going before the court tomorrow. He's, he's got to make a plea. Yeah.
00:39:46
Speaker
What do you think? ah Thoughts? All right. So I almost said I'm of two minds, but I'm actually of three minds because I think he could plea any of the three guilty, non guilty, no contest. I think if he pleads no contest, I think that tells us that he's likely made a deal. And no contest basically means like, I think of it almost like an Alfred plea that like, You're accepting that there's enough evidence that that you could get in trouble, but you're not going to say it, if that makes sense. Yeah, that's my understanding of no contest, um that he's not going to contest the charges. That would tell me that he is probably working in some sort of plea arrangement.
00:40:26
Speaker
That also suggests to me that he's saying no contest restricted strictly to these charges, that if other charges arise, there's a different, it's a whole different ballgame, if that makes sense.
00:40:37
Speaker
If he pleads guilty, i think that there has 100%, like there's been a plea. There's been a plea deal. I think if he pleads guilty, I wouldn't expect there to be other charges, at least unless there was some really compelling things that came out.
00:40:54
Speaker
If he pleads guilty, I think that's kind of the end of it. I think he'll get a, get a slap on the wrist and okay ah he'll have gotten away with ah the abuse of his wife element of this.
00:41:07
Speaker
That's kind of what I think. I think I can also see a world that he pleads not guilty Because he thinks he can convince everybody. It's the thing he does. he's he He grandstands. he's I think he thinks sometimes he can charm more than he's able to.
00:41:26
Speaker
And I think there is a world that he thinks he can get he can get away with it. Get found not guilty. And ah he'll be somehow vindicated. Yeah. ah You know what? My thoughts are pretty much right in line with yours. I am unclear on if, ah I mean, I 100% think he's been working with the FBI.
00:41:53
Speaker
He's flipped in some capacity. There's other crimes involved. I think that's why these ah crimes are, relatively speaking, not that in the FBI scheme of things,
00:42:09
Speaker
For somewhat smaller charges, i think he think he did more. So i i mean I feel like there's there's no doubt that he took a plea and that we're never going to know. um What I don't know is then exactly what the difference is and what would result from him playing no contest or taking guilty plea.
00:42:31
Speaker
um ah Guilty I i think it's it's just like you've already agreed to it It's done It's more final I think that if if he does 100% That proves exactly that That that's what he did He you know he worked with the FBI for um to For reduced charges And he's not going to fight him Yeah I'm not sure who would benefit, like but from a personal standpoint, I could see no contest if that means the same thing. I'm just not sure legally if that... I don't know. Legally, i don't I don't know what the implications of no contest versus guilty are. Yeah, and I don't know. I also don't know that if that plays a part, no contest versus pleading guilty... in sentencing ah because i feel like a guilty plea there's there's a deal made and maybe no contest it's just your you know what that's a not gonna fight that's i i don't know if that's correct that's just yeah no i think that sounds really that that sounds
00:43:35
Speaker
That does sound correct. So if we think about Ruby Franke, Jodi Hildebrandt and Brian Kohlberger, some of the people who have been, um you know, and involved in high profile cases recently, they all outright pled guilty. Yeah.
00:43:48
Speaker
Right. Yeah. So there has to be a. Well, Kohlberger pleaded no guilty first and then changed it to guilty. But yes. Okay. Okay. Okay. um So, yeah, I don't know.
00:44:00
Speaker
Betts? I think the best option globally for for all of us ah would be if he pleaded not not guilty and went to trial because a lot more stuff would come out.
00:44:12
Speaker
And I think people would have to be compelled to testify. I think other things would come out that could likely publicly lead to other other charges for other people. I said the word other so many times right now. But I...
00:44:29
Speaker
I don't know. um Pleading not guilty. i should let me hold on. So it'd be the most satisfying, the most satisfying if he pled not guilty. So the whole, so it all could come out. think that would lead to to more charges for possibly him, but also others. Yeah. And going to say on that is I don't think it'll happen because I think it's tied to ongoing investigations that I agree from the beginning.
00:44:59
Speaker
Nobody's wanted. there's been a have been kept under wraps and I think that's a lot of what this the secretive element to this case has been. So I am very doubtful he'll plead not guilty. but I think, and this sucks, like I hate that I think this, but I think he's going to plead guilty. He's going to get a way, way lesser sentence and it is not going to actually be justice for Micah. I think this is um And we've talked about it before. There is a bigger picture going on. And I've been afraid this whole time that the bigger picture is going to overshadow what he did to his wife.
00:45:36
Speaker
And I think if he pleads guilty, that is exactly That. he's working with FBI. There won't be justice for Micah. There could be more justice, hopefully, that will bring about but justice for other these other crimes and other things that we know are going on.
00:45:53
Speaker
But that would, that's my feeling is that if he pleads guilty, it's going to be the stuff about Micah is going to be done. And he's going to get a way lesser consequence than he deserves. I'm going vote with you on that. I think it's going to be a not, I think he's going to, I'm sorry. I think he's going to plead guilty.
00:46:12
Speaker
I think largely for the same reasons. I want to believe that if that's true, then he has cooperated and putting together in aiding the conviction of even worse criminals who may have been harming multiple people,
00:46:30
Speaker
I mean, especially if there was some kind of human trafficking involved. at I don't know. I think it is going to be very unsatisfactory, the consequences that, yes, he is, I believe, going to be given for for Micah specifically. i think there'd be some jail time, but I don't think it'll be much.
00:46:51
Speaker
yeah No, I don't think it'll be at like i think there will be, but it's not going to be enough. Yeah. And, you know, it's like this just came to me. And it's like we've talked about I go to church. I'm a believer. I'm a Christian. There's there's a Bible story and it's, ah you know, God.
00:47:10
Speaker
or I'm sorry, Jesus leaves his flock because one of the sheep wandered away. And his disciples at first are like, you abandoned the whole flock. And he's like, no, I didn't abandon the whole flock.
00:47:22
Speaker
I went to get the lost one. And I think that Micah is the lost one. Yeah. If that makes sense. That's just, this and I'm afraid, I'm afraid she'll be the lost one. And I hope that isn't true. I hope that she...
00:47:37
Speaker
won't be lost in this. I believe totally my opinion that she was participating and helping and bring down whatever the bigger picture is.
00:47:51
Speaker
And maybe that was her, that really was her like, yeah, that was her sacrifice. And that shows what an amazing person. Yeah.
00:48:02
Speaker
she was and that's what I hope does not get forgotten but I fear that that again because I believe there's an ongoing investigation will never fully i agree no but that's what I think I think she was helping to bring something else down and somebody wanted to shut her up yeah who that was I don't know but right um the thing I think The thing that really gets me is I do think JP is going to cut a deal for a book or a yeah movie or.
00:48:38
Speaker
i wouldn't be surprised if that's if you know what, if because there is the son of Sam law. I don't know if that's federal, but the son of Sam law means somebody who is convicted of a crime can't profit from it if he pleads no contest.
00:48:53
Speaker
Oh, yeah. i wonder if that's interesting okay yeah good point well i guess tomorrow we'll know and we'll see how if we're right or wrong but um so hopefully even if it's just one of us pops on and record something real quick after the arraignment just to to kind of put uh we'll do it'll be like us from the past on our episode um just saying yeah how Real quick, like what happened. um So we'll try to do that but for when we release on Wednesday.
00:49:25
Speaker
um And to be fair, I think this is ah one more thing that happens at an arraignment is that is where like bail can be set or somebody can be taken directly to like jail prison.
00:49:37
Speaker
at that yeah point depending on I don't think that's going to happen I don't think he's going to be I think there will be a bail set and I hope he'll have it yeah Mark Kaufman will say it oh yeah alright guys well we'll see how it goes I'd love to know all your opinions and what you think is going to happen yeah Find us on social media. Let me know what, ah let us know, you know, your thoughts on everything. Next episode, we're going to continue talking through the indictment. um We are going to kind of line up the accusations, the indictment with the timeline of events that we know have happened and that were reported. there are police reports, all the things. I just think it's the indictments broad. And i thought doing a timeline with it it's like, yeah, remember these things are all things Michael alleged and Michael said happened.
00:50:27
Speaker
I think that'll kind of humanize federal document. And then we will get back to Murdaugh. Yes. I think probably after, probably have a couple episodes, after this, after the next episode, we will get back to Murdaugh, which I know a lot of people are interested in, in that story. Yeah, absolutely. All right, guys. Well, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you. Have a good week. Bye.
00:50:50
Speaker
Bye. Bye. Bye Bye