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In ten Hag we Rust 🚨 Manchester United at a managerial crossroads
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Could this be the END of Erik Ten Hag at Manchester United? 😳 Can the club even AFFORD to get rid of him? 💰 Is De Ligt turning into another MAGUIRE? 🧐 The Red Devils are at a CROSSROADS—this season’s outcome could DEFINE their future! 🚨
Transcript
00:00:17
Speaker
ah Hello and welcome to the Not Appended podcast. My name is Kellyanne Ginnity. I'm delighted to be joined by Connor Glennon and Robbie Redmond as we delve into budget 2025, Mike Pence. The VAT not going up is obviously going to affect the ah tourism sector. Do we think we're going to see a major amount of closing in the hospitality sector as well? I plead the fifth.
00:00:42
Speaker
yeah Obviously lads there's only one show in town which is why Robbie is back and Nate is not here. nate Poor Nate ah is not feeling well after Tottenham's demolishing of Manchester United 3-0. Now before we let Robbie loose, Connor, what did you make of the game?
00:01:05
Speaker
Oh, look, I mean, it's it's it's a hard one in the fact that from start to finish, it they just look rudderless. You know what, I obviously will delve into the weeds ah with Robbie, but I really think it's it's a case of I'm looking at the team and just going, OK.
00:01:23
Speaker
10 Hags fought two years in the gig and you're just looking at it going I have no idea what kind of football you play um and I know every journalist has been waxing lyrical about that but I'm okay with that sometimes if you're still adapting of style of play to win but week in week out they're losing games to poor teams like not calling Spurs a poor team, but like, I mean, they were definitely a beatable team. They they made United look terrible, but they were definitely a beatable team. What about you? were We were only talking to Simon about how beatable Tottenham have been a place. So like, it's it's not great. And then there's all the rumours about Ruud van Nistroy coming in and impressing the board while Ten Hayek isn't impressing the board. So
00:02:13
Speaker
From what I saw on social media today, so blame blame Twitter if any of this is wrong. Apparently, the players generally support them. But does that really mean anything in Man United anymore? I don't think they have enough player power ah to kind of affect change. um So when there's what seems to be a built-in replacement, there's always going to be an extra pressure. so it is
00:02:44
Speaker
Rob, is this is this what's happening? Is that it's just that there's such an easy option there that they could turn to that there's now extra pressure on Tenhag or is there pressure on Tenhag for just not being up at the level you'd expect them to by now?
00:02:57
Speaker
I think it's definitely just it's it's related to 10-hag that he was he has been, like I think they should have got rid of him after after the FA Cup final. i I know what he wanted but that was that shouldn't have been enough to keep him in the gate in the job considering how poor his record had been and people talk about injuries and stuff like that and they say stuff like he's been unlucky but I think we have to look at it as well and we aren't privy to it but I've always believed that he has partly contributed to those injuries possibly True like he he picks the same team a lot and it's a lot of muscle injury. So that's a whole separate thing I just don't I think he's been completely unconvincing and And the fact that he kind of interviewed him again for his own role in the summer Like he kind of I had a bit me or I suppose it's easier to say when you're getting paid I think he's getting paid probably 10 million pound a year something 9 million and but he knows the writings on the wall because they went all over Europe and
00:03:51
Speaker
they talk to every other managerial candidate that they could have, like he spoke to Tuchel, he spoke to Pochettino, both of whom would have been way better, and then they kind of stuck them with him, but under the kind of, the catch had to be that he had to bring in his whole new coaching staff, which was, one of them was Van Nisroy, so that's not good when that's happened to a manager. That's kind of effectively their proof in themselves, because they know eventually they're going to have to sack him,
00:04:19
Speaker
And they made a mistake. Like like these Ineos guys spent ages trying to buy the club. They've done all the due diligence. They've been briefing to the media. They have Sir dale bright da old da is brave sorry sir Dave Walesford. They have Ashworth, they got from Newcastle. Omar Barada from Man City. Wilcox, who was from Southampton, who was previously at Man City. So they got all these boffins in the room. And their first big decision was to keep their manager who hasn't performed. It's not like he's only going to sell a chair. He was a club legend and he kind of had the sympathy vote. He's not like Mourinho who had brilliant success in the past and was so charismatic. He's just a random Dutch coach. He reminds me of the guy from The Simpsons, Rex Banner, the guy who's chasing Homer. He's a charisma vacuum.
00:05:10
Speaker
I think you're right though. I think you hit it right just from what you said there in in that he's he's a coach. He's not a manager. yeah That's the key thing here. And i what what I don't understand is I totally agree with you that they should have got rid of him at the end of last year. I think it would have been a nice way to just sign it off. He gets a trophy, goes in the sun, no harm, no fail. Financially as well, it would have been a lot easier to offload him at that point because what?
00:05:32
Speaker
yeah and Beck all left on his deal at that point. Well, now you're sitting looking at a contract of 2026. Okay. So on paper, that's the same 9 million year, 18 million total, plus his background staff. You're probably talking to go to 25 mil.
00:05:46
Speaker
Even that, they gave him a one-year extension. like If they really believed in him, they'd be giving him a three-year extension. so he He surely knows this is this is what's happening. It's just completely unconvinced. It's easy to say now we didn't have a podcast then, but I wasn't convinced when he got the job. To me, it felt like the chief option because I think he was only a million to get him out of his deal. ah at IACS where think Pochettino was something like 20 million PSG wanted so it felt like the cheap option. that He was appointed by Morta who's left the club and Fletcher who was like technical director but he had no qualifications for us so and he'd even look at his record like what what's his big achievement?
00:06:27
Speaker
getting my axe to the semi-finals where he lost the spores? Is that it? There's one quote that came out of him when he was asked about his job security that I was just like, this is just a man trying to buy time. He said, in May, in all my last six seasons, there were always trophies. And so again, this is what we're aiming for. So I'm sorry, mate, you can't rest on your laurels like that. my yeah it's like an like we were talking to simon about like i'm saying oh i always win a trophy on my second year like don't be making these silly predictions that just aren't whatever about that that at least goes okay this year and and he's looking at every game but going hang on lads just give me till may i'll win something don't mind me like that's just mental to me Yeah, like winning a league cup though or like with the squad that's cost like 600-700 million like and then the FA Cup, which is a one-off game, but look this is football. Anyone can win in a one-off game. They almost lost the carpentry in the previous game, but this is just the bigger stuff. You actually look at them on the pitch, like
00:07:25
Speaker
it's It's a complete mess. like it's It's just a mess. I don't know what they do all week. And he can blame the players. like he can't It's not his fault that Rashford backs over 50-50. He can't take the blame for that. But he can't take the blame for where the players are positioned when he loses the ball. like If you're playing five or so and a guy runs two towards at the pitch,
00:07:44
Speaker
and squares it and and your team score. like That's terrible. like that's i was good That's what I was going to say. And when you were saying about position, yeah all I could think was that van der Venn in the Spurs game. like I am sorry. That is one of the biggest howlers defensively I have seen. Let's just even keep it united in like five years more. like did He just ripped them apart.
00:08:06
Speaker
good like I haven't seen a defender run that well since Nathan Collins. yeah like you To be fair to van der Venne, it was good. It was brilliant. But it shouldn't have been able to happen. even that exactly That's exactly it. And you look at the the personnel, so like he's got all these players. like like you know you were conceding not as goal as bad as that but you're conceding conceding dodgy goals from the time 10-Hag took over I remember like they lost their first match to Brighton they got hammered in their second match like Ronaldo played in their second match against Brentford away like they got lost 7-0 to Liverpool at Anfield
00:08:40
Speaker
like And he's got new right backs, he's got new centre halves. United have you know you've done something to see someone that I never thought they'd do. They got rid of like dead weight and fringe players and used that money to generate the buy in new players. and So he's got it's got everything he's really need, but this is worse than Saltyar. I remember that United match with Saltyar near the end, and you could feel it coming, but it was a bit more fun, or there was a bit more... like I don't know, he felt something more about it, but this team is just, and he as I keep saying, as well like not that much he's just such a charisma vacuum. like and and You know what it finds as well, like you need to get over this idea of support. and ah We have to support the manager because we support Ferguson. That's gone. That's from another era. like if If he's not good enough, he's not good enough. and
00:09:23
Speaker
move him on and he will eventually find his level which is probably back at Ajax or Southampton or something like that. He's not an elite level coach from all you can see. and And the stats back you up on that because Killian, I know you youre you're a man who likes a stat and I saw one during the week that Eric Tenhag has only lost one less game in his last 28 matches from Ani and I than Gary Neville's record during a stint in Valencia.
00:09:47
Speaker
So when you break that down, his last 28 games for United, 10 losses, 42 goals and 40 conceded, like I am sorry. Like there is that you can't no one would be able to defend that, you know? Sure, I think in the last I can't remember how many games, but I think Everton have more points in the Premier League than Man United. Like since from the end of last year up in into the new season, like.
00:10:16
Speaker
everything that we're talking is a basket case and this relegation fodder and was like so lucky to to survive last year. um Like I know it's probably more kind of bad timing, but there kind of does seem to be a little bit of a pile on against Tenhag, not just from like the the usual suspects, but like one one of his former backroom staff and Benny McCarthy. Rob, what did you make of the comments where he was accusing Tenhag of not having the passion needed and the passion and fire that players expect from a coach anymore?
00:10:49
Speaker
Well, you don't want you hear your ex assistant coach saying and stuff like that. and Is there a little bit of a sour grapes that he's not on? I think so, because he was like he was one of the coaches who had moved aside for the new crew. Yeah, like him and Steve McLaren. So like we can take out a pinch of salt. The guys lost his job. And by all accounts, the players seem to like McCartney and Nate if he was here about to give you.
00:11:12
Speaker
more info there. But I do agree with him. Like he says passion, I would say my term would be charisma. but It could be passion as well. it's just maybe but a time Yeah, that personality as well. like it just It's not to kind of hang your hat on. I do think with a lot of elite players, like like You see someone like Klopp. Klopp is a brilliant coach, but when you're not going to say his best quality was his tactical acumen or like that or his business in the transfer market, it was literally just his passion and and and how we could get players to
00:11:44
Speaker
just perform above themselves and that might mean Marcus Rashford not bottling a 50-50. You know that way just by having someone who has that passion or it could be someone who who has it like a fair factor like Mike Ferguson would have been or a Marine might have been but with Tanaag it just seems to be none of that. you just He has this kind of real i just real caretaker, accountancy type vibes, like real middle management, civil serving vibe off of him. Supervisor vibes, yeah. Yeah, and you're just like, you can picture, it's just, even, like it'd even have to be similar, but Vanaag was very charismatic and he had the track record to back it up. And he had spies to him because even though he was stone mad, like he could buy into that.
00:12:24
Speaker
Yeah. I just don't, I think, I think Ben McCartney's obviously, he's better probably, which you would be, but ah there's definitely a grind to it. And I don't think he has that passion or charisma or wherever you might, you might feel it. I don't know what you talk here, Ian, but for me, I found it strange that a man who's on the hunt for a job in a, in a job where loyalty is everything that you come out, you know, throwing statements like that around about your former work colleagues. I don't think it's the best look for McCarthy.
00:12:52
Speaker
Now, let's not forget our kid ourselves. Billy McCarthy was not always known for his professionalism. fair you Like the man loved a kebab in London. when you do Do you even remember he was at West Ham?
00:13:04
Speaker
no exactly i think it was him and robbie keem were there at the same time ah that's trouble jesus well it was like when he just went and signed loads of players before he got relegated you're just thrown anything at the wall this is when they had signed like Guillermo Franco for ah the mexican striker they were just like we have nobody that can score goals just get somebody please Oh, absolute class. There was a Piccione, Frederick Piccione, who had been on loan at Portsmouth as well. Mito was brought in at one stage. He was very good at one point. For a very short period of his career, Mito was an absolute killer at the box. Two weeks there in 2007. Yeah. But when I think Benny McCarthy and Mito were there in and around the same time, and they would have had the collective weight of a back four.
00:13:52
Speaker
and So yeah, I don't, I don't think he would necessarily see this as kind of being like, this is going to affect my job prospects going forward. ah ah Plus the other thing about Betty McCarthy was he was a full time manager in South Africa. I think was it was Orlando Pirates. So like, I think that's more of the game he's playing. I think he's selling himself kind of going to get a top job, at least or yeah or not even a big job, but at least a top of the tree.
00:14:21
Speaker
Yeah, like I, I, I don't know if I'm a good coach because I have so much passion, the kind of passion you want from a manager. Um, cause that is basically what he says. That's why that the two of them didn't gel was cause he's so passionate and 10 hag isn't. So I would take them with a pinch of salt. like I think some of the stuff he was in this crap, it's like, Oh, uh, 10 hag didn't make enough use of Ronaldo.
00:14:44
Speaker
we We had conversations at that time. Ronaldo cost too much to have in the team. To make him try and play well, the rest of your team had to be crap because they all had to play it towards him. And I think one of the things that is a kind of a, uh, I don't want to say a death knell for 10 hag, but it's, I think it's going to be one of the things that will be used against them in the end.
00:15:08
Speaker
whenever the next manager comes in, be it that in a month's time, January, end of the season, I think the next manager will get Marcus Rashford scoring properly and consistently. And I think that's going to be the big thing is that he's been around Rashford for so long and he keeps not being able to get a tune out of him. What age is Rashford now?
00:15:29
Speaker
27 in October. Cause like, I mean, it's, it's no long, like this sounds mental when I say, but he's not a young player anymore. Like now he's going to enter a period now. He's going to start slowing down probably because that's the type of player he, that's the build he has and profile he has. So you've got to see the best.
00:15:46
Speaker
Like they will have to move from center because like he he's not going to have the physical physicality for much longer to be able to kind of play that kind of left. I think if they, I think if they wait to to get a manager in the summer, if they get rid of 10 hag, which I imagine they will, I would be surprised if Rashford is still there for that new manager for long anyway. hey yeah I think he should have went already. Like I did. I'm on the record of saying in that, but I think one of the things with him is because he's an academy player.
00:16:15
Speaker
this I think he's going to be the benchmark by which the managers are held. I think that will be the kind of... Every every manager has that kind of one defining piece after kind of going like like for me, Molly is at Sunderland. Terrible signings. I don't even necessarily remember the bad, bad, bad, bad play, but it was the terrible signings. And I think not being able to get a tune out of arguably their best player,
00:16:41
Speaker
is potential anyway yeah like what when he's good he's damn good yeah but when he's bad he's average yeah damn average i think as well we what he's done ten hack i think he's normalized you know you're like you're getting these heavy defeats that like when this used to happen under marina or salt char or God loving Moyes, there will be uproar. Now it's just, it's kind of normal. Man, you know, you lost 4-0 to Crystal Palace in May and it's just, yeah. Just accepted. Yeah. Yeah. Like you can lose, they are capable of losing to absolutely anyone. And it's the same with the players. Like they're capable, like Rashford is capable of having a 30 goal season and then he goes off a cliff. Like it just doesn't seem to matter really what 10 hack does. It does.
00:17:27
Speaker
it like things it does the There's drift and there's... Do you think there's structural issues there? like to be look like I think Tenhag should go but at the same time like I do think he is slightly being scapegoated the last two years for chronic issues and I know there's new management or senior management there now but like if he goes... like insert manager doesn't even have to like we don't won't put a name on who it would be but like do you think those issues are going to persist and like i think that the team will be better like maybe they kept them at the use them as a scapegoat like you know that way yeah like they like they can go okay we'll get them and we get fun destroying and
00:18:05
Speaker
while we're figuring things out we'll kind of write the season off as well. Maybe that's what they're thinking a little bit because he is a useful shield now at the moment for them while they settle in. I think the issue on the pitch the issues behind the pitch will always be there with the Glaziers obviously. There's only so much he can do but like I think on the pitch they should be five times better than what they are. They're not going to qualify for the top four or for chat music if they keep them. Which is going to affect who you can get in from a player point of view as well. Yeah and that pushes, this is why you might have been in this cycle then of one chat music season every couple of years, they're never strengthening from, they're never adding to their squad from the position of strength, they're kind of scrapping around and it's not working because they're always from a kind of position of weakness and if the 10-Hag is allowed run through the whole kind of October into November,
00:18:55
Speaker
period, they're just going to drop more points. They're going to lose more matches. So the time to do it now will be after the Villa match on Sunday. And I don't know if it would be of an issue, but I would stop thinking too hard about it. Thomas Tuchel is available. Get Thomas Tuchel. Whether he's going to be the manager in a year's time is kind of irrelevant. He's the best manager out there. We've been saying that for a while. We've been saying that for the guts of a year. And Killian, I don't know about you. Say they do get Tuchel in.
00:19:23
Speaker
Like we were saying there, do you think Tougal gets them playing better on the pitch? Can he? Or A, I suppose first part of the question, do you think those issues will still persist structurally? And then B, do you think too, can you even turn and the players they have around into a winning team? Um, I think he turned them into a better team. I don't know if it's a winning team, but I think it'd be a better team. I think they'd get overall.
00:19:48
Speaker
he'll turn some bad losses into lesser losses or draws or he'll turn draws into like basic wins. um I think There would they would be, obviously, the new manager bump, which I think, to be honest, United would love that right now. um I think this is where I kind of feel bad for Tenhag in the sense, but I think, Connor, you'll feel this within your soul, the Steve Bruce thing of kind of going, I'm the last negative. yeah And I think no matter what Tenhag does, he's not the ineos man, and that's going to hang over him.
00:20:27
Speaker
And I think there's always going to be an element in that for for that for the fans, but I wonder, is there an element of that with the players? And is that kind of like, yeah, I'll try.
00:20:40
Speaker
for as much as I want to try. A little bitter. That kind of like, yeah, ah you're going to be gone soon enough. I don't necessarily have to like put all of my ah eggs in your basket. And he's so strict. Sorry, Katie, in the cross, but like does he does it. You can't get to one side. I don't think, cause he's so stern and strict. And if you eat a bit, it's a bit more a bit like salt or maybe you might get longer out of players because the and players really like him, but i just I get the impression that he's just, there's no crack with him, and players just, they aren't gonna- Do you think the stink of this will hang over him, or like, do you think, right, say you get sacked after the Villa game, do you think by the start of next season, he's somewhere else, wherever it is in the world? Oh yeah, ah I think he'd be absolutely fine. He won't get another top level job, like he's not gonna- Ever? ah Or like, straight away?
00:21:34
Speaker
Um, I think what I don't know about you, Rob, I think it takes some rehabilitation to get another top job, but well I think he'd be just the level below. Yeah, I think that is his level. He'll always have the excuse that, look it, United is a mess. I want two trophies. And he'll come out of a record spot a little bit, I suppose, for certain people. like It's not a complete disaster. Maybe the way Saltyar has gone into the wilderness now. But yeah, I think at a certain level. But I don't know about the top six or eight in the Premier League. I just i just don't think he's on that level. on
00:22:05
Speaker
for lots of different reasons and it's it's not all his fault either but it's got this stage where they just have to make a change and they can change all the players so they're going to have to change him. The noise is loud at the moment around, obviously getting rid of them, but are INEOS, are they gonna, because if they sack them, they look like they're just listening to public opinion. So do you think they hold firm and try to do it down the road and go, no, no, no, we'll do it when we want to do it? Or do you think the noise is so loud that they just can't not?
00:22:37
Speaker
one of those things with the transfer or the international break that's usually when like that's when soldier i think got sacked coming into the november one merino i sacked in the zen yeah it's a nice little kind of nothing burger window to get rid of them yeah the players are aware you have two weeks to your next match um i don't think they will but if they were to lose the port on villa And it was another heavy loss. I just think they might just have to. I might just be like, remember, remember, Roger has got sacked by Liverpool. That was partly because Klopp was there, but it just you just have to make that change. And the sooner, the better. I think this is the perfect time now going to the October break. There's going to be what? i forgot about the international break I think you're right I think it's the easiest way to just kick it to touch and have the only thing the only way that works though when you sack someone in the international break is you need someone right quick where you come in and take the reins and I don't know about you killing like and the first person that mentioned
00:23:31
Speaker
the idea of an issue would be getting the top job was allowed to work with about a week after he joined on as a coach. He was like, this is just the plan. But do you think that was the plan from the get? Or do you think they'll keep them in that situation as a system and go even bigger for the for the top job?
00:23:46
Speaker
Um, I think when he came in, like, let's not forget that he he left PSV or he was sacked from PSV. Like I, would whatever way it was, I don't think it was necessarily his choice or he didn't want to be leaving it or or whatever, but like you kind of don't take on a coaching job after that, unless you're kind of finished with management or you think you're going to get up to the next job. So like, I don't think.
00:24:17
Speaker
I don't think they would have said, listen, when 10 hag goes, you'll get the job. But I'd say there was kind of an element of kind of going like, I can come in here, 10 hag will go and I'll get to be Ali 2.0. I'll get an audition period. And I might get the actual top job job after that if I can prove myself. um And that audition period would be pretty nice enough because 10 hags had such a horrible start to the season. Anything's up from there. Unless he goes colossally wrong, but I don't see it.
00:24:47
Speaker
No. And like, when you look at if if there were to without the international break, ah Rob, as you suggested, like, that would be a damn long audition period from what, November to the end of the season, unless somebody else can came up. Because I don't think it's realistic for Tuchel to come in mid-season. I don't know. It just doesn't seem like that type of manager. He probably won at least a pre-season or a summer window or something. He came in at Chelsea in February and won the Champions League. so Oh, yeah.
00:25:20
Speaker
wouldn't mind it. He might back himself. He can't do that, obviously, but he might get them back into the Champions League at the very least. It could be probably Vanistrei if it does happen. They didn't insist on him for nothing. They obviously see something in him. PSV were playing well under him. Yeah. I don't think I ever really saw them under him. I always liked Vanistrei.
00:25:44
Speaker
I think the players would like him. It could be another all-ay effect, but you're still, oh like, I still would have went for Pochettino, and I probably the last person in the world who thinks that should happen, but I still think that's it. I was with you on that one as well. I know he won nothing at Spurs, but I think where he's the polar opposite the 10-hag is, you know, if you look back on those dressing room videos of of Champions League time, like, the players were bought in and would run through walls for him, and that is what, you know, I didn't need, you know,
00:26:12
Speaker
I think they need an identity and I think that's kind of something the Podge got with Tottenham and it hasn't necessarily gotten the opportunity to do with any other team since. Like he did well at PSG. He, as far as like our friend of a friend of the podcast, Ryan, like he he was bought in at at Chelsea, but he wasn't there long enough for, there was too many players to be able to actually make a real culture, a real but like,
00:26:38
Speaker
person persona at the place where that he had a Tottenham. So like, I think yeah United kind of need that either. And I don't think it necessarily has to be public facing in the sense that like, I don't think it has to be like somebody that's going to be great in the press or something like that. But I think they need somebody that's going to be like that behind the scenes that like the players kind of go, Oh, he's the man.
00:27:01
Speaker
um in whatever shape that may be. like Look at Sunderland. Sunderland, we, not to kind of compare, but we were in a similar position last year where we were doing well under Mowbray. The club management and ownership wanted to push on to the next level. So they got rid of Mowbray and they didn't get who they necessarily wanted, so they panicked and got McBeal and that was terrible so then they said right right off this season I think we fell down as far as 15th or something under um the the interim manager Mike Dodds who's the assistant manager now and then they got in the coach that he's very understated in the press he's good but he's very understated but apparently every player loves him
00:27:47
Speaker
He is the the key thing. dones the place now As long as the fans don't hate you and I don't mean that it like I'm another tense obvious but as long as like you're enough in the media that like people aren't like you're completely unlikable that and you can you can merge that with the players loving you that's a very workable situation and to be honest ideal.
00:28:06
Speaker
And I think that's the issue with 10 haggle, like not to kind of belabor the point Rob made earlier, but like being that he's strict, like decanio was strict when he was at Swindon and so on and banning ketchup and you can't do this, but he was a little bit nuts and you can have a load of crack with him. So bill was so know he the man was as mad as a box of spiders. Like, but like he was somebody that you can kind of like buy into kind of go on rice. Yeah, I can't have ketchup.
00:28:31
Speaker
But I know you'll be on the dance floor with me at 2 a.m. I'm not like a drink, but you'll be there. So there's balance to it. And I don't think necessarily 10 hag has that kind of go and like give a little, get a little like you're going to give a little.
00:28:47
Speaker
And then want to I'm going to take a load off you. And then I'm going to make you go and do a load of fitness tests. And I'm going to run you into the ground and then you'll play every game. And then we're going to be mediocre at the end of it. You probably touched on that earlier from an injury point of view, and know you know, like when I saw they got your amount of Driscoll for my arsenal and I thought, okay, you know, they're going to be sucking diesel here from an injury point of view. And I'm not blaming it on a Driscoll, but it's got to be related to 10 hag and his training staff with the men and muscle injuries that are coming through.
00:29:13
Speaker
We did mention him before, and I did also say during his time at Arsenal, there was a lot of muscle injuries. Yeah. Like, don't forget, this was the period of, I know it wasn't all him, but it certainly didn't help. ah Diabi, Riziski, Wilshire, like.
00:29:30
Speaker
uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh,
00:29:50
Speaker
and uh, i do wonder I'm all up for a manager who pushes players hard. and But I think, gone are the days yet that you can run them into the ground. like I know Sean Dyche has what he calls the manager's day, where the sports scientists are told to just go home for the day. And he's like, this is, I'm going to run things. And that's what I do. And I think there's a place for that in football. But I don't know, Robbie, are the fans correlating the injuries to him? or is Or is it just something we're looking into?
00:30:24
Speaker
I don't think so, it's just something I've kind of picked up on because I'm hearing people saying oh he's been unlucky with injuries. like Listen, I don't he can be unlucky with injuries full stop when you're spending 600 million on a whole squad of players. But that's just that point. but i just Remember something after they lost to Brentford in his second match and he kind of had them out the next day doing laps of the pitch on a big run. I was thinking to myself, that's like something from the eighties. That's gone. And I wonder him and Ronaldo clashed and Ronaldo might have been done or in the wrong or whatever, but Ronaldo was not able to do that. like and ah like Football isn't like that now. And I just i just feel like, and then Jordan, the side of his fourth season, he'd play his full strength team in every match. They'd play full strength team against
00:31:13
Speaker
and lee cup games no matter who you're up against they would play a full strength team so there's no load management yeah and it doesn't look it just to me it just doesn't look like that modern of kind of a coach and then this is your stuff of like who he's bought like the rider not durable so he pushed from mason mount like mason mount 60 million euro 60 million pound he was out of contract 12 months later to give chelsea 60 million for a guy you who was back up to Bruno and is completely injury prone. So the profile the player's 10-hag has got, and that's what we haven't really spoke about either, is he's poorly for a player, I think, in the transfer market. like For every one success there's there's five bad signings and none more so than Anthony
00:31:56
Speaker
And even Martina is like, he's only, I think at best, he's only been a qualified success because again, he misses so many he matches, true injuries. He's good when he plays, he can be rationed and he jumps into tackles too much or whatever, but he's injured at a lot. So one thing about him, I will say though, is he does give a certain hardness to your team in a good way. Like when you're playing with him, it's like, all right, go time. You know, even if he's, I agree with you, he's not exactly what you need.
00:32:22
Speaker
Yeah, like he is a good player, but then he might go jump into the hackler. he might Something might happen and he's out injured again for a while. So I think on every every mark for judging 10-Hag, it just seems to be you're giving him fours out of 10 or fives out of 10. In fairness, he won the trophies, and that's great. So I'll share it with him on the trophy, but it's not going to be enough. and it its just there's no I don't think there's any real case for keeping them, even though a lot of fans wanted them to stay there after the FA Cup final. Those one-off mental games, just they aren't going to be enough and it's it's just time to... Those tro those trophies though, you know it's it's nice to have and it's it's good for the CV and it's good for the fans. but i mean you I looked at the numbers from a Champions League perspective of what commercially Man City brought in by winning the Champions League. They got £115 million pounds out of it. like i mean
00:33:10
Speaker
You can take your FA Cup and shove it where the sun don't shine. I mean, he's in the Champions League now, I think it's 48 or something? 702 by the next format, yeah. like They've added so many teams. like No serious football Cup can not be in a competition like that. like You know can't consider themselves a serious team if they're not involved in that. Yeah, it's nice winning the League Cup against Newcastle.
00:33:30
Speaker
Or even the FA Cup, all you'd personally rather to be watching and competing in the latter stages of the Champions League, that's where Club of United's stature needs to be. And until they're done that consistently. And there's too much focus on the manager as well. Like, it's he's just, at this day and age, he's just a coach, and he this guy isn't good enough as a coach. So, move him on, no hard feelings, and yeah, the sooner the better. When you're when you're looking at the the the current crop of players he's had, obviously, you know, a lot of them he's had for a couple of years now, but the likes of Delict and Ugarte and how you finding them, like I know Delict's not had the easiest start to things and Ugarte's got a sizeable job, but how you finding it?
00:34:11
Speaker
Well, they looked like my and i players on Sunday and sports and not in a good way. Like they look like they fit right in with the rest of the lads, like L position, that kind of haunted, scared look in their face. And yet always five yards away from where they need to be. So from that perspective, he looked great. He looked fit. It's like they got the last tickets to the Titanic. Yeah. Yeah. They licked. I don't, I don't know. Like, i like, is it not just another kind of McGuire?
00:34:41
Speaker
That's what Paul Scolds was saying. he He was saying that it's it's kind of Maguire 2.0. like he's not particularly quick, which, like, Luca van der Venn, like, the speed of him, ah not that you want your centre-half doing it all the time, but there is like an issue with a team like my Unite and there was an issue with Maguire. It's not that Maguire is a bad defender, it's just he doesn't have the attributes to, he's too slow on the tour and so you can't play high up the pitch, so if you can't play high up the pitch and press high, which is what 10-Hag wants to do and all these teams want to do, you can't really do that with a centre-half who who like Thorne's like an oil tanker, so the lick could be of a similar issue. But I just feel at the moment i'm not you not where you watching i don't you're not watching them at their best. i don't I don't know. I think if you got under coaching and five months' time, I'm a bit to actually give a proper assessment of it. yeah Whereas then there's other players like Anthony or Avio, like I don't care if Alex Ferguson and
00:35:34
Speaker
and Jack Tanner and the ghost of Jack Tanner and whoever it is comes back and manages that team. That guy is going to be crapped on my own manager. He's terrible. Do you think he can even get rid of him? Oh, no. I don't know how these these transfers work like that. They pay installments. Like if the Ineos guys are the geniuses that they seem to think they are. It's been portrayed that they are. I'd be getting onto IACs and going, listen, we're not giving you the rest of what we owe you. it Just take this fellow back, like kind of call the quits. Even if it's even get 10 million back from him, because he is absolutely terrible. and And it's awful to speak with that, but he is terrible. He is as bad a player I've seen, not just for my idea, but in the Premier League.
00:36:12
Speaker
like he's I wouldn't give him a game for anything in the Premier League. When we when we compared Delict to McGuire, I saw that wince on your face. What's your vibe on it? Yeah, like I'm i'm ah i'm a big fan of ah the Delict signing. Like I think that is really intelligent signing, just getting one of these players that's underappreciated at his current club, getting them for a really good money for a player of his stature if you don't want to say quality. But compare him to McGuire. That's, he's right in the head. He's a lot more intelligent.
00:36:45
Speaker
He can actually go up the other end of the field. And don't forget for the beginning of the season, he was one of your main goal threats when he first kind of came in. It's more for his physical attitude, like he's slow. Like it's not actually, he's a good defender. It's just more that slow. Yeah, but that's the difference. He knows where to be and he knows he's not physically there. I think a fair comparison for me is he isn't McGuire, but he can move like him.
00:37:12
Speaker
you know yeah Yeah, but the the difference is like if he was in ah and a normal team that was able to adjust to that, whereas like what's happening at the minute is like he's been but somebody else goes out of position and he tries to cover for that. And then he's left in no man's land. Cause he can't get back to where he's supposed to be quick enough. Like I think there's bigger problems tactically then like his, his physical attributes. Cause he's so damn intelligent. Well, I need him to work out. I think in the first episode of the season, I pegged him out as my, you know, surprised the season said to Lake, do you better get your shit together? And I think he will come good. Like once they have a different manager. Um, but like, yeah, Anthony is a poor man's eden.
00:37:55
Speaker
Like, at least Ian McGinney could spin and go in the right direction. um he's He's so, so bad. and I think Miles Barrie will be fine. Dallow is a Premier League player. He was a club player of the season last year for United, but then he has... Oh, that's pure vibes. I was going to say, player of the season is always who's the vibes, man. Yeah, and then on, no, for United's club player of the season, there was not one else really he could pick, but then he was, he was shite, wasn't he? And sports, like, um Yeah, I don't even, I don't think I need him in particular. There's not one player I'd go, oh, if I, if he gave me a football manager budget and told me the boy, Evan, there's not one player I'd probably go, he's untouchable. They're all probably much of a much as the strikers are a massive issue though. I think Xerxes and, um, Highland, like, hi, like Rasmus Highland to me is in shame, not to be disrespectful to him. Cause he, he actually had a great career, but he reminds me of Shane Long.
00:38:50
Speaker
i know what youre say I know what you're saying. I don't think he's ever going to be a top player, sorry. Yeah, no, i know I totally agree with you. i I know what you're saying with that. And I think Shane Long had a fantastic career for kind of, I suppose, multitude of clubs, but never really kind of flicked on to that next level. and He also didn't start playing football. He was like 14 or 15 as a coach. like So Long got the most out of his talent. I just think Highland is just like, come on. i'm like you You guys bought the wrong Scandinavian. Yeah, and Xerxes as well. I'm like, what's for all these Dutch players or players who have some link to Dutch football, like the standard, the step between Dutch football and Premier Degas, it's, I sound like one of the lads off soccer Saturday, like Phil Thompson or something like that back in the day. Like, but it's actually true. Like the standard is, it's,
00:39:36
Speaker
Just the possibility. If you compare it to your noisy neighbors in City, I think it was Gary Lenneker or so much during the week was saying that Rodry is probably the only player in the world that would make it into, or only player in the Premier League that would make it into any team in the world. And i did there's not a single person on United that I'd say that about.
00:39:53
Speaker
no not even close but also like do we expect united right now to be in that at that level no no i think they're at least three years away from that oh i'd say four man i'd say like six seven oh no i think three really good clever years and they could be with having at least a player that would walk into any team like Who knows, in three years time, Kobe Manu could be that guy. He could be like a Jude Bellingham 2.0. We don't know how these kind of players will ah push on, or if they do try and sign the the magnificent Chris Rigg from Sunderland, who would be 20 by then.
00:40:32
Speaker
um like i think I think he's a user it'd being a little bit harsh on the players, like the quality of them. Like, Hoyland is a damn good player. Worst case scenario. I'm not even trying to be, you know, sensationalist about it. I just think Hoyland's just missing that certain something about him. i I've never really found that he's, you know, he's a bit of a, and you might understand what I mean when I say he's a bit of a kiss the badge player in the way that he'll Outwardly show that he's yeah, I'm super committed. I'm gonna put up the Instagram Instagram So I'm trading in the offseason and all that But you just don't see the finished product of that and even the fight in them. It's it's kind of a forced fight It's not a run-through walls fight. It's it's just a kind of plastic fight. Would I be right with that Robbie? Yeah, like he's eager and he's very willing. He's athletic He has all the attributes of a cool footballer
00:41:27
Speaker
are a league player but I just don't think he can put it all the together and I think you know it is a bad space for him to try developing to a top level player like he should be out on loan or playing for Copenhagen or someone in the Bundesliga maybe or something like that my night is not the place and there's no one else like Xerxes
00:41:49
Speaker
I think Holland probably needs a loan move or something, something away from United for a year. we Price tag though, he probably you can't do that. No chance. It's it's like with Maguire when you buy them for that much, you can't sell them for pittance, you know? No. I'm telling you, Holland's going to be a better player than he's given credit for. I don't think it's going to be a Premier League leading striker or anything like that, but I think it's going to be a damn fine forward. i think he five years and that Five years time, I don't think he's out United. No, I can't see it. No, but I think he's still playing the Champions League.
00:42:30
Speaker
Yeah, I'd give you that. yeah copplaygan and I think Xerxes is going to be very good for you. I think he'll be absolutely fine. He's not, he's not, he's not going to be fine up on United though. but You can't, you cannot be right fine is not good enough. Right now fine is better than what you have.
00:42:50
Speaker
Yeah, but that is such a low bar, man. Yeah, but it doesn't matter. Like you' you're on the road to try and fix something here. And I'd rather like the perfect is the enemy of the good. You can't get Holland. So try and get players that actually work for you. like there's a There's a bridge between Holland and Holland. There's someone there that is, is better than, is less good than Holland, but better than Holland. You're not even chosen these guys against their contemporaries like Nicholas Jackson and one of these guys or John Duranoff, Filler, you're judging him against a vampiricy, vanistroi, cantina. That's the point, we're all living in the past, me included. You're looking at Xerxes up front, they're hiding, you're thinking, Jesus, or least you watching my roommi here but you see watch around piy and I and I'm on boards for the Onda.
00:43:37
Speaker
What's the difference between Juran from Aston Villa, Nicholas Jackson at Chelsea and Huyland at Man United? From what I've seen in Juran, he's an excellent finisher. And the stats I've seen, it's like he's scored a very high percentage of his gold. Jackson seems to be like just really erratic. like Jackson gets in the right positions but can't convert. But he's playing enough games that he's converting now. Yeah, Huyland to me looks like he's learning on the job a little bit.
00:44:06
Speaker
What's the main difference with them? They have a system that plays to them. I don't you think it's good enough to warrant a system played around. I think my I just need a system. Well, that's, that's, I think that's the summation of this entire episode is that they're rudderless and need a system, you know? So and we reconvene when they have a proper manager or have a good vibes guy like Vanessa Roy. So we'll see you in about 10 years then. Yeah. Um, before we go lads, uh, man, you're not, it where are they going to finish with 10 hag Connor?
00:44:36
Speaker
um I'm going to say top 10 but low. that Without slightly higher but not much. Like I'm saying the cap out at like 6th. Rob with them. With them they're going to finish top 8 because they'll score around 50 goals. They can see at 50 goals and I'd say 8.
00:44:59
Speaker
without? If I think it got top four. Really? Yeah, like Villa won't be up there again this season. Chelsea might be good. Do you think Villa will just be stretched like Newcastle were not sure? Yeah, like it's like it's difficult the first season in Champions League so you have Man City obviously, Arsenal obviously, then you have Liverpool and there's one more space there I think in between United And Chelsea, I think Spores will probably tip the guy off as they always kind of do. So they could easily get top four, but if they wait any longer, they won't get it. So. ke what are you saying with So with 10 hag. With 10 hag, if it keeps going the way it is, I think seventh. So we're all in and around that kind of somewhere seven through nine.
00:45:43
Speaker
And without them, I think, um, seventh. Oh, wow. So you think regardless of the main man. Yeah. I think that's just other teams that are going to be better at when they need to be, then, then, uh, then what United are going to be. And, uh, yeah, I think to be honest, I think any of us will do like what someone did last year and write off the season and just aim for the next one. Yeah.
00:46:12
Speaker
And on that bombshell, we'll bring it to the end. Gentlemen, thank you very, very much. And thank you for listening and ah joining us this fine evening or morning or whenever you are listening to us. No, back to the budget. I will chat to you next week.