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Liverpool Win The Worst Premier League While Wrexham’s Hollywood Fairytale Rolls On
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Liverpool lift a trophy in a season that still feels underwhelming 🏆 A potential Europa League final that feels more like a desperation derby is on the cards 😭 And the lads go deep down the Wrexham rabbit hole after their back to back to back promotions! 🐉🏴
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Transcript
Introduction and Sponsorship
00:00:00
Speaker
This episode is brought to you by DS Business Solutions.
Recording Dedication and Sunderland's Challenges
00:00:19
Speaker
ne Hello, hello, hello and welcome to 22 Degree Dublin. Yes, that is the dedication that we have to this podcast, that we are in the cave recording when we are having our summer.
00:00:33
Speaker
The league may be over, the relegations may be done, but we are still here. Boys, how are we? are we doing?
00:00:42
Speaker
I am good. um Sunderland are not doing great, which isn't good. But we're coming up to the playoffs. We will be fine. i think they're actually doing warm weather training at the minute, which is good.
00:00:57
Speaker
ah Very excited to see how the ah the the playoffs will go. As I said, I'd love to see them back in the Premier League. I don't know if we're ready for the Premier League, especially considering the relegation father of this season. Yeah.
00:01:10
Speaker
i would like to I would like
Premier League Focus and European Matches Discussion
00:01:12
Speaker
to see us up. I won't lie. I'd look i'd like to win on the sheet. Just for the Derby. Yeah. Just for the Derby would be great. How are you, my friend? i am good. United have secured safety in the Premier League now that all the teams are going You know, I am chilling, although we are still unbeaten in Europe, so we go again tomorrow.
00:01:31
Speaker
How you feeling about it? Good, yeah. um I feel like we've performed well against Spanish teams as of late. and So hopefully we get another win and look forward to a photo glimpse to beating Spurs.
00:01:46
Speaker
You really have to look at this you're a potential Europa League final of of Spurs versus United as the desperation derby. And I'm not even being bad when I say that. I don't know who needs it
Unexpected Success in European Football
00:01:58
Speaker
more.
00:01:58
Speaker
I mean, one of us are getting out with more trophies than Arsenal this season. I suppose. It's kind of buried the leads there, lads. like Bodo Glimt are this far.
00:02:11
Speaker
like i mean, it's great to see it. Love to see it, you know. Do you know you just know where they physically are? They're practically in the North Pole. like They are on AstroTurf because the weather is so bad for 90% of the year that they can't actually have a normal pitch.
00:02:27
Speaker
they like They have a population of four lads and a chicken. like This is incredible. like i don't know why people aren't in the streets talking about this. like If they get to this final, never mind about winning it,
00:02:40
Speaker
It will be an immense achievement, borderline as big as Leicester winning the Premier League. And for punctuation fans, no team has ever won a European title that has a punctuation in their name, let alone a bloody slash.
00:02:55
Speaker
It's going to be incredible. They make Villarreal look like the metropolis in in size in comparison. You do love to see those those small clubs making a push. And I think you're right. I think, to be honest, so much chat has been around.
00:03:09
Speaker
Can this win, say, Vanj's job? Obviously, United in the picture. That they really haven't, I suppose, given the the airtime to how big an of achievement it is.
00:03:22
Speaker
Oh, absolutely. Like it's it's they are a tiny, tiny team. And yeah, it's the Europa League or whatever. But like still this this for Norway alone is incredible.
00:03:34
Speaker
Like it's been a while since we've seen any kind of exports from the Norwegian League. Outside Molde are Norwegian, aren't they? yeah Yeah, but I mean in terms of like actual... Molde, they've always been in Europe, but they've never done anything there.
Managerial Stability and Club Performances
00:03:53
Speaker
you know ah yeah they they they that They're that kind of team, I suppose. if Whether it's football manager fee or FIFA, or if you ask the man on the street to name a Norwegian football team, you're probably getting that. and Maybe because of Oli, maybe because of... was literally just going to say You know, it's it take out Molde though, and I don't know who who you're getting. But boys, do you think, you know, obviously, Nate, you're going to be sitting there with your red lenses on and I don't knock you for it. the ah Going into that game, do you see United winning that? because I mean, you've showed some signs this year of fight. I think the the game against Lyon, was it?
00:04:31
Speaker
Was the five four in the end? I think that's as much as I've seen United fight, as much as he threw the game away. But would you be worried about Spurs?
00:04:40
Speaker
We've lost now. He is so afraid of Spurs, they can't even speak. and the thing The thing with Spurs is that I think they're looking ahead at us when I think they really need to be looking at Bodo Glimp.
00:04:55
Speaker
You know, Spurs are the type of team to lose in the semi-final to them. and In terms of us against Bilbao, I'm not very worried, just purely because we're unbeaten in Europe this season. So let's continue it.
00:05:06
Speaker
Do you think... like Obviously, we know Amarin's job is is safe through next year, regardless of how this season's gone. Even though I don't think if you'd said it to the Avengers, that is that boardroom, where he'd be, would they have taken him? No. But, you know, obviously, if if Spurs don't get through the semis, I think that's Ange gone. Personally, I don't about you boys, but either way, do you think if he even wins the Cup, he's getting the boot in the summer?
00:05:36
Speaker
Oof. I think if he wins the cup, I think they can't sack him, but I think it'd be a 10-hag situation of dead man walking. ah Fishing around for someone else, and if you can't, you keep on to him for as long as you need to.
00:05:50
Speaker
Exactly, yeah. and Just because it's not often they win anything, the fans will be back onside. um If he doesn't, ah I would probably be surprised if he gets back to the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium before they sack him.
00:06:07
Speaker
I'd say he'd be told, don't get on the bus. i think he I think if he loses that semi, having had the year that they've had, making the promises of trophy in his second year, I think he could walk.
00:06:19
Speaker
I think he's that kind of guy. I mean, like... It'd be good for him. This is the Spurs team that sacked Mourinho, like, a couple of days before a final. Like, you know what I mean? They don't care. Really real anything out. Like, that was probably the biggest chance of ever winning a trophy.
00:06:36
Speaker
i think what Ange is like, listen, I don't think he's ever filled me with confidence, like, from the outside looking in. i don't really think he's connected with that fan base, and I don't think anyone would be sad to see him go, personally.
00:06:50
Speaker
I think, i I mean, all it takes is going back maybe, I don't know, 40 episodes on on this podcast and and our thumbnails were singing the praises of Anjbal.
00:07:01
Speaker
He's someone I wanted to work out. um In his first season, I really enjoyed his character. i don't know about you boys, though. i To me... the way he is with the media his abrasiveness his charm of it's been akin to i liked mike ashley in the beginning and we know where that went and i don't to compare the two but you know what i'm saying in the fact that it appeared as one thing and and kind of developed as another i could see him doing an emery on us kind of um not working out getting his right spot
00:07:35
Speaker
yeah just a little bit smaller kind of see tottenham um a kind of they've kind of become like newcastle having these great expectations with no actual history to justify it i was nicely woven in there but like yeah genuinely that the fact that like yes they got to champion's league final yes they were have come close twice to getting um a Premier League, but they've failed at every opportunity that has been given to them.
00:08:08
Speaker
So like they have they're starting to have these expectations because Potts turned them into a team that was worth watching. And since then, they've borderline basket cases that have been bridesmaids. And with the way it all seems structured, fans, players, board, they look like they'll never be that bride.
00:08:29
Speaker
Well, i you know, in in work, um out of ah out of a team of about 15 people, there's three Spurs fans, which is an abnormal amount. And I think all of them would agree with you in in in that regard, that I do think the the fan love is is is turning. And I don't even think it's down to the league position. you know Obviously, that has a massive effect on it, but stylistically, they're entertaining to watch when you're not a Spurs fan, you know?
00:08:57
Speaker
Are they though? like I mean, i'd in in terms of they're so out of control that their games are exciting because they can't control them. Like, just not to dwell on them, but like going back to Ten Hag for a second, and like that guy was hounded by the media.
00:09:11
Speaker
And I feel like Andres got somewhat of a free ride, like in comparison. Like, I don't think they've been out for his blood anywhere near as much as they were with Ten Hag. And to be honest, the results have been even worse. I don't disagree with you. And I think that really does show, I suppose, where Spurs are as a club compared to Man United. You know, Man United are...
00:09:34
Speaker
That job is like being a Prime Minister. you know Not that Spurs are a small club by any means, but compared to United, they are. 100%. And I think like if I was a European club, I don't think Ange would be on my list. And i I've made it clear I haven't been an Ange fan from the start, so you can can say... Day one hater.
00:09:59
Speaker
Literally, but yeah, he wouldn't be on my list if I was top European club. And what what was your your hate with Ange? in the in the in In the beginning, like obviously, we we know now, but would like I think myself and Cillian definitely got swept up in the in the vibes of him.
00:10:18
Speaker
I just thought he was all talk from the beginning. I think that I made that quite clear at the start. was you know he He talked a lot and said a lot and really didn't back it up. and he was probably one of the least smart people i've seen in the media um you know how many claims did he make that he didn't back up so yeah he's not my cup tea as a manager well i stand by him i think you'll see him at like an everton type team uh by january that soon do you think
00:10:53
Speaker
I don't think with Everton, but I think he'll be back pretty damn soon. um I'd love him to go to like a Bundesliga team. I think he'd be really, really good there.
00:11:04
Speaker
um Maybe a La Liga, but like you could see West Ham going for him. I think he's headed for the Saudi League. That's where I think he's headed. Oh, no. Well, I could i could see him doing it. Ego-wise, he wouldn't do it.
00:11:18
Speaker
I could see him doing it for the bag, though.
00:11:21
Speaker
I would quicker see him go back to be the national team boss of Australia. One thing I did see during the week that surprised me a little bit was, i've forgive me now boys, I can't remember who the player was, but one of his ex-players was saying basically outside team meetings, he didn't really say hi or bye to many players and he You know, that was surprising to me. did He, to me, I didn't expect him to be the kind of Jose, you know, do everything for his players type, but I didn't expect him to be a cold shoulder guy either.
Liverpool's Premier League Success
00:11:55
Speaker
Or do you think that fits? ah I don't know. Like, I don't know if it's cold shoulder as much as it is. He kind of has that, like...
00:12:05
Speaker
you know We've all had a teacher like that. That's like... I'm here to do my job. Don't annoy me. Just let me do my job. but You're adults. Just do your do your job. I think there's that kind of element to it. A professionalism almost. A caught a cold professionalism.
00:12:21
Speaker
Yeah, and I think... Part of it, if I was looking from the outside, looking in with absolutely no knowledge, I would assume that what he's probably tries to do is tries to have his coaching staff be there the good guys and him be the bad cop.
00:12:36
Speaker
So like he can come in and he can crop crack the whip. You need to keep kind of level of separation so you can still crack the whip. and then obviously for you this yeah a bit more with his players but yeah he kind of had his had his role and he had to stay within the yeah yeah you you have your you have your lane have mine and uh by me maybe it's his way of trying to impose uh that kind of not all but that kind of authority on ah on a team by kind of going well ah for like we can't even talk to him but when he talks to me i better well listen
00:13:12
Speaker
you know Well, speaking of lanes, there is one team that have been in a lane of their own this year. And unfortunately for all who listen to this podcast and the posts themselves, that that team is Liverpool.
00:13:23
Speaker
Yeah. Boys, I know we've gone over this a million times. It's not been the best of years ah from a competitiveness point of view in the Premier League, from a showcasing apparently the best league in the world. But what what did we think of their dismantling of Spurs and their overall performances here? Nish, I'll let you take this one first.
00:13:50
Speaker
and like Just so you can and enjoy the Liverpool loving. you want my PR answer or my actual answer? Give me both. no Congratulations, Liverpool. These are above everyone this year. And then my real answer is it's probably the least competitive league in recent that memory.
00:14:10
Speaker
Like literally. um I think this season's been nothing short embarrassing.
00:14:19
Speaker
don't think the football has been good. I don't think the teams have been good. and If I'm the Premier League, I'm looking into why it is. like I don't understand how there's such like such a gap between the perceived top where did perceive top six where last season to this season.
00:14:37
Speaker
it's It's really baffling to me. There's three letters that can just sum it all up. PSR, baby. PSR. And no, we're not a you we're not going down that rabbit hole, folks. Don't worry. I don't want to kick off a fight. Killian, what are you saying about this year? To me, i think I think none of us are massively positive about... Forget that it's Liverpool 0-1. A congratulations, Liverpool. P.O.R. answer. But you know I don't think it's it's as bad as Nate's making out, but he's not far wrong, you know?
00:15:10
Speaker
I can understand why Nate has the opinion he does, but first of all, congratulations to our boy Camilo, our liver Liverpool fan. in Oh, I forgot that. Congratulations, pal. And him after giving you the love for
Competitive Dynamics in the Premier League
00:15:26
Speaker
Newcastle's trophy.
00:15:27
Speaker
Yeah. but um like i know people are saying winning it at 80 points or it shows the the lack of quality or strength of the league um do you know what the record is for the least least amount of points for a winner in a premier league season 75 i'm wow what would you remember the year 97.
00:15:49
Speaker
ah ninety seven Okay, right. I think it was 96, 97. So early Premier League days. Relatively, but it was well established at that stage. 75 points, wow.
00:16:04
Speaker
But you've got to feel bad for the likes of Klopp, though. like He finished second with 97 and 98. Which I think, rather than kind of using that to admonish where the league is now, I think we should now, in retrospect, look back and kind of just realise how ridiculous City was.
00:16:21
Speaker
I think it's more to the credit of City than it was the weakness of Liverpool, obviously. And I think that should be... The same kind of thing should be applied here. Like, I think it's been a very...
00:16:32
Speaker
um Like, I think other than, like, Southampton and kind of the teams that went down, and there's no big six anymore.
00:16:43
Speaker
It's a big ten. Which is exciting. and and you know It's not the big ten. It's the ten. The goal between it is crazy. Like, we we're going through a Premier League season where Manchester United is 15th and...
00:16:57
Speaker
fifteenth and Tottenham are 17th. What's going on? I feel like we have to acknowledge that. like It has been a really poor season. and No, no, no. We're we're going through season where Man United paid for the... Sains of the past. No, we're not. Exactly, yes because So what what's up with City this season? What's up with Chelsea this season? like There's such a gap between Liverpool and the rest that it just...
00:17:23
Speaker
like you can't not acknowledge that the city one i think is easier to to understand because they've been operating at such a high level playing you know so like even from a obviously this is barcelona and not city but i saw today lamine yamal has had 100 games for barcelona since 2023 like you're talking that level of games where they have been perfect for years And that's going to catch up on the body.
00:17:51
Speaker
You know, Pep's also gone through some stuff in his personal life in the last 12 months. There's the charges hanging over them. i'm not even like psr doesn't count to city they just do what they want but there's enough within that that like there's been it's been a tumultuous period spurs uh you could argue is was kicked off by harry kane's exit they but it had a bounce off the back of it where people thought oh is the team better at harry kane we now see they are definitely not and they also had a manager who seems out of his depth
00:18:24
Speaker
you united it it is the one like killian said though i think it is sins of the past have caught up and and and again though you like you can take the off the field pieces as as the major driver of this there was such uncertainty there for a long time at radcliffe and so much movement and you know the ins and outs of of director of footballs and ah hesitating on sacking ten hag yeah like i think to be honest if The more I say it out loud, it it really seems that the teams that are struggling the most and seeing finding themselves in situations that they can't believe they're in it's mainly through off the field antics that have then bled to on the field antics.
00:19:05
Speaker
but I don't know if you guys would agree. like And when you look at the Big Ten, like I was saying, there's a lot of teams doing things right, which has now given us a much better spread of points, whereas there would have been... Like Villa and Forest and... and Exactly. Brighton, yeah. Fulham, even. like I think this Big Ten that you're hinting at is just...
00:19:25
Speaker
asking it I think it's a fancy way of saying that the league's been so mediocre this year. like The point spread from third to ninth is 10 points. like it that's That's crazy. like there's There's no consistency from any team.
00:19:39
Speaker
And to go back to what you were saying with what was a United had the lowest points tally in 1997. if If you pull up the table and look at it, from first to fifth, you're talking 14 points.
00:19:51
Speaker
From first to fourth, you're talking... seven points like hugely more like competitive league and i i think we're seeing that now is you know liverpool or what they're like 15 points ahead 20 points ahead newcastle on third like i don't know i i think the view in this season has been totally terrible Yeah, like I also think one thing if I go back in Nate's camp is i would love I don't have the stat, but I would love to see the stat of where Liverpool would be in the league if they didn't have Salah on the team
Mohamed Salah's Contributions and Future Predictions
00:20:29
Speaker
sheet this year. And I know that's a low-hanging fruit kind of stab at them, but that man came up in some clutch Michael Jordan moments this year.
00:20:39
Speaker
like I don't know i don't about you boys, I think he's going walk player of the year. 100%. Oh, he has to. He has to. I think, and I'll give Liverpool juice here, is... is We're not saying Liverpool were bad. Liverpool were great this season and they deserved to be And they can only beat us in front of them. I'm just worried why the rest the league were so mediocre. like And I think we can acknowledge both and go, Liverpool deserve to win the league. Yes, but there really was no competition this season. But then, I suppose, being devil's advocate, right?
00:21:11
Speaker
you know Last week we we talked, or was the week before, we talked about how tight the championship is and how amazing that is. But yet when we're talking about the Premier League and there's a similar closeness, we we're saying it's it's gone to pot.
00:21:25
Speaker
the The thing is though, and I think it's a big thing that the Premier League's lost this season, and and you guys might disagree with me, but... When you're going in and watching a Super Sunday every Sunday, it doesn't feel like a Super Sunday this season. and like It really doesn't. if hes like you know It doesn't feel like you're getting in the calibre. It feels like any big team that Liverpool goes up against, it's a guaranteed win.
00:21:47
Speaker
Similarly with Arsenal. And then the rest is just a toss-up. To me, that's just not what the Premier League is and what the Premier League has been. and as we As we look into next season, you know,
00:22:01
Speaker
it's It's mental to think that a club as big as United or City or Spurs are are going to be in a rebuild. But like I'm sure we'll touch on this more as we we draw closer to the summer. But what do we think next season is do like? Part of me thinks Liverpool, with the right acquisitions, have another gear to go.
00:22:25
Speaker
you know Could they be the new city? Well, the thing is, I think but i think Spurs and United have a lifeline with the Europa League. I think if either them win the Europa League, that's a huge boost heading into next season instantly.
00:22:41
Speaker
and a lot of money coming in and back in the Champions League.
Manchester City and Pep Guardiola's Future
00:22:46
Speaker
I think with City, City's an odd one. It's like... where are we trying to go with city in terms of like do they need a totally new rebuild do they only need to change a few players and like what's their objective now and i'd probably err on the side of like it might be pep gradiola's time to hit the hay like with city um and just start a new chapter
00:23:13
Speaker
and Do you think he does start a new chapter, just before we we pull you on in this killing? Do you think he... to Like, is that him done? Like, do you think he just sails into the sun, or does he take a national team? Like, I don't see... Like, where does he go? Like...
00:23:28
Speaker
I don't know, but I just think where that City squad is now, it's such a mix of like they've got a few young players, a lot of old heads, it might just be time to just like close that chapter. i don't know.
00:23:45
Speaker
and Do I see Arsenal closing in the gap? Probably not. so like I think Liverpool are in a good place to go for for two in a row, personally.
00:23:58
Speaker
What are you saying, Cillian? Well, I had been saying that up until his contract extension that Pep was going to be gone. So I wouldn't be surprised if he was to leave.
00:24:12
Speaker
It'd have to be him walking, though. It would have to be. Oh, yeah. It'd be him. And it would him having to appoint a successor. Or at least be seen to. yeah Yeah. Yeah. um I think with...
00:24:27
Speaker
I think with their overall, they are kind of in a rebuild, and but I think it really comes down to what manager they're going to have because I don't think you're going to have ah somebody like Pep is kind of becoming a little bit of a tinkerer this season.
00:24:41
Speaker
like There's a lot more kind of like moving things about and trying things out. Yeah, like he's it's he's trying to re re ah reaffirm his algorithm. um But I think for him, it'd be good to go and take his two years.
00:24:57
Speaker
I think this is the longest spell of football he's done. ever probably and uh he nor like even when you consider him as a player and his um drugs bands or his um his his last weekends in mexico or whatever ah like he's always kind of taken time away from the press and uh he would probably do well for himself to take two years out and then maybe come back with a national team job or i don't know maybe seria see my only thing with the national team is i think it fits perfectly but you know as well as i do most the time a national job is the end of the road job you don't go back to club after that only thing with him though is
00:25:48
Speaker
He's so revered that he could if he wanted, but more importantly, he could, kind of like what Klopp was kind of doing at Red Bull, he could just go on to the international overlap. It's funny you say that because he read my brain with that. That's where I was kind of leading this to.
00:26:06
Speaker
I just think he'd be bored silly doing that. But you could imagine City basically doing like a Ralph Ragnick with him, the City group kind going, listen, yeah, Yeah, do what you want. You want to Spain? Go off and lead Spain for four years.
00:26:18
Speaker
Still be consultant for us. But when you when you're done there, we want we want you to come in is like, we will put you at the head of New York City FC ah for a year and just steer them through this. Yeah.
00:26:33
Speaker
We need an interim manager. Well, then you're our interim manager and you get to do whatever the fuck you want, wherever the fuck you want. And oh, yeah, we're considering buying a club in Spain. Who should we buy? Yeah, just being guy. Yeah,
Football Sponsorship Deals and Business Insights
00:26:46
Speaker
just ask him what he wants to do and let him do it type thing.
00:26:50
Speaker
Yeah, and I think that they would get great value out him and he'd get great value out of them. Plus, he's the type of guy you can imagine going and doing a Masters and stuff and it'll be on global football club development and how to do it and break the game and ruin the entertainment of football for everybody.
00:27:10
Speaker
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00:27:21
Speaker
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00:27:39
Speaker
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00:27:51
Speaker
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Wrexham's Rise and Business Model
00:27:57
Speaker
Well, lads, smart signings. I think ah the club that can probably stand there and say that they've made some of the smartest signings in the last few seasons is none other than Wrexham. know... Hey, Jimmy Mack!
00:28:12
Speaker
there's i I mean, I know people will say he's passed it, and you know I'm sure in the UK that his chanting at the end of of of their... ah promotional tour um didn't go down well but you got to give it to them you know even from a financial point of view they bought the club was bought for two and a half million about four years ago and they and that they're valued at 150 million quid the three promotions on the bounce a disney series that has the world wrapped around its finger b what are your thoughts on them firstly lads and and and two parts of that do you think this journey can keep going to the prime
00:28:53
Speaker
and I don't see why not it can go to the Prem. like They're clearly heavily backed, they're putting their money where their mouth is. like Is it the fairies tell story that I think it's made out to be?
00:29:08
Speaker
Probably not. and you know like They are heavily backed and have been since they were in League Two and below. so I think it's a cool story and it's it's one to watch and it makes good television.
00:29:23
Speaker
Am I following them every week to see how they're getting along? No, so it's it's not that engaging for me, but yeah, fair play to them for doing what they're doing. ah don't know about you, Killian, but I'm very relieved that I didn't buy any of that Wrexham gear that is so tasty now that they are potentially going to be... They're at least... a Worst case scenario scenario, they're going to be your rivals next year. And then pretty worst um worst case scenario for me, they could be my rivals in a year's time.
00:29:53
Speaker
But where where do you stand on the Wrexham thing? you know I know there's been a lot of talk in the league about... they've and across the leagues every season that they've got promoted they've they've got been accused of buying the league and and and and just throwing money at the problem but where do you land on it?
00:30:10
Speaker
Well having supported a club in League 1 they bought the National League they bought League 2 they've earned League 1 Because the players that they have, when you look at them, some of them may be on high wages, but therere it's not exactly a team of superstars.
00:30:28
Speaker
Like, as I said the start, Jimmy Mack. Yeah, this isn't James McLean of the Premier League era. This is James McLean on under the decline and borderline banter era.
00:30:41
Speaker
But also, but also he he was never he was never a superstar anyway. Like, you know, yeah he's big in this country, but he's not, you know. But the thing about him in that team was, it was, yeah, he was ah good player. He wasn't a standout. He's had some standout moments.
00:30:55
Speaker
But it's more about the dressing room and the kind of leadership. And as we always said him for... ah club and country, he wears his heart on his sleeve and he goes for it.
00:31:08
Speaker
And I think that's exactly what Wrexham needed. like i think when they signed Ben Foster for that, whatever it was, two weeks, that I think that was part of their logic of that, was to kind of bring somebody in that can kind of steer this hap-dash group. like um There was a lot of players in that team that uh were kind of rebuilding their themselves as well as youngsters like look at owen o'connell like he's kind of working his way back up the leagues yeah and it's been fantastic for him and i don't see why he can't be a championship squad member worst case scenario if not a start starter starter um as he is now but like the
00:31:54
Speaker
League One and the Championship but are very, very, very difficult leagues. League One can be very sticky because you have so little money. um So it's not like they've splashed the cash in these mad transfer fees. They've given them higher wages.
00:32:10
Speaker
But what I like about them in the modern sense of... they may not be fairytale, but they're doing things sustainably. It's not like they're just, like with Birmingham, 15 million for a striker in League One.
00:32:25
Speaker
Like, what the hell? I think the previous record was 3.5 million. I totally agree with you, but do you think now they're... I suppose there's two sides to this this kind of point. A, do you think they'll have to do that now that they're in the championship?
00:32:38
Speaker
And B, can they afford to do that? Like, ah we all know how much money that... See, this is the thing. It's earned money. That's the difference. They've spent four years putting the building blocks to and grown sponsorships and grown in interest and grown, as you say, with lovely kits.
00:32:55
Speaker
ah their revenue basis so whatever happens now the club is actually earning it and maybe be topped up with owner money it's not like a city of 2009 where it's just like I have all this money in my pocket here you go yeah I did I did something like that anymore I did see something like their revenues are you know around 35 million which you know you're looking us I think when we went down to League One, I think Sunderland was bought for 35 or 40 million.
00:33:23
Speaker
Yeah, that really does put in perspective, doesn't it? us that Let's come on. like They have done things in a very, very sustainable way that most other rich owners haven't. Sunderland's newest owner has, which is great.
00:33:35
Speaker
But, again, they... They are the exception to prove the rule. You know, like that's like when you see, like look at Reading, they're falling through the leagues because of owners of promised money.
00:33:49
Speaker
Birmingham, like they've literally bought the league, like how anybody can justify spending was reportedly up to 20 million pounds for one player in a league where the previous record signing was three and a half million which sunderland broke and when sunderland broke that i think they broke it by over a million like this is you you literally probably could have bought another team in league one for the amount of money they spent on one player it's what people try to say to try to say to rexham oh well you're only buying your success Well, to slightly fact check myself there, the annual turnover since the two boys took them over has gone from two and a half mil a year to 26.7 mil a year.
00:34:28
Speaker
And let's not forget they've sponsorship deals with TikTok, United Airlines, Expedia, the Disney piece, a huge merch side of the business. You know, they it it may be unfair how they got those sponsors through the fame of their owners.
00:34:45
Speaker
But I mean, that's just par for the course, you know. Well, see, this the thing. And, like, because they have more eyes on them, I think it's an easier excuse to throw at them.
00:34:55
Speaker
Whereas people aren't doing the same outside of League One and maybe, like, championship fans are with Birmingham. The general populace, because they've heard of Wrexham now and have watched Wrexham, they're not doing it. Whereas it's it's just factually incorrect.
00:35:10
Speaker
It'd be like saying... um ah the Premier League is only about money because Arsenal spent 100 million. Yeah, but then when you look at the bottom end of the table, 100 million on rice, but then you look at the bottom end of the table and the max they're spending on any one player is 10 or 15.
00:35:25
Speaker
Like, you can't just, like, but just because you have this assumption, it it doesn't mean it's reality.
Financial Sustainability in Lower Leagues
00:35:32
Speaker
And think the thing with Wrexham as well is
00:35:37
Speaker
They are good for the league, not ah not just publicity wise, but like it's spreading out the love again. Like it's ah it's another um Welsh team to kind of prove there prove their worth and to go up against the English in the league.
00:35:53
Speaker
and Especially, I think it's a Cardiff has dropped down the leagues now. Yeah, and I think just kind of There's ah been a few kind of protests at the owner, Vincent Tan, who famously made them their blue jerseys red and changed their logo and all that.
00:36:07
Speaker
um So he's under pressure now again. So it's good to still have two big Welsh teams. at all times it's kind of like one of the rules i must say it's cardiff we're having a bad all go in the sports kind of sphere at the moment between the football team going downhill and the rugby team going bust you know it it it does i suppose show you the reality of sports in a smaller country like wales compared to to to england you know i mean it's it we i think that's something that you have to remember with this wrexham story that
00:36:40
Speaker
uh they've pulled it's not just like they've been an english team and pulled off something impossible they it's a very small town you know in in in wales where so much was up against them you know even you you really have to look back at the players who bought in you know your elliot lees your paul mullins your ollie palmer's Like, I know they went for money and maybe they just got lucky and in the fact that it actually worked out for them. But I do think some of them saw the vision there.
00:37:12
Speaker
Or do you think they just saw the two lads and said, yeah, I want a bit of that. And if it goes to pot, I'm getting paid well anyway. I think all of us Like, we've seen these situations go to pop before. Look at Sol Campbell and Sven.
00:37:26
Speaker
Oh, at Knott's County. Like, these things can... A big name can draw you in and it can still go wrong. But... bo I think there was it was a no-lose situation for the players. They were either going to get paid they'd get and move anyway.
00:37:46
Speaker
ah But no matter what, they're going to be associated with a celebrity. um So whilst, yeah, the cynics amongst us, and usually I am the first one at that altar, will kind of just throw that at them.
00:38:01
Speaker
Ultimately, that a lot of the lads took a chance, and the owners took a chance on a lot of them as well. Let's not forget. like Well, that is that is true true. They they threw like unusually large sums, this and I don't mean they both like kind of broke the rules by any means, but for the calibre of player, they overspend. But I think it's fair to say that the the vast majority of their signings, you know I think Sean Harvey...
00:38:28
Speaker
it has to be given a lot of credit for this. Sean Harvey you know has been around football for a lot of years and was, I don't know how he ended up at Wrexham, who made that connection, but let's not forget, he was the director of football that identified these players.
00:38:43
Speaker
He's the one that identified Phil Parkinson as manager, who has been their manager through all of those promotions, which is even more rare. He was sacked by Sunderland. Was he? Yeah, he was he he failed at Sunderland when we were in League One. I didn't know that.
00:38:59
Speaker
Yeah. He was very, very good a good few years ago art um Bradford City and won what is now the Papa John's Trophy, I think. um Or had been.
00:39:11
Speaker
ah And... ah he went to Sunderland we were to kind of thought okay not the man to get us to Premier League but he might get us up the league and it just it just didn't work out for him and then I think we ended up with Lee Johnson after him which again didn't work out and then we got Alex Neil ah former club captain and manager of our friends at at Hamilton ah and um yeah like it's it's ah
00:39:42
Speaker
There's a lot of credit due, um ah more so than the cynics would like to admit, and less so than the media machine behind Reynolds and McElhaney would or have you believe.
00:39:57
Speaker
But, like, they they've done things pretty right. They took chances. Like, we've seen people spend money and it not work out. It was kind of... calculatedly spent like you know what i mean like we saw it with a city with their initial billionaire takeover with the thai owner spending lots of and it's just not working out like these things happen back in the robinio days or was that or we even go further back robinio was the current owner oh robinio was the first big one of the current owner yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah but like when um they were signing like
00:40:33
Speaker
ben jani for nine yeah okay yeah i'm um'm with you which at that time was it was big money um or even look at qpr like to get to the premier league and ultimately what wrexham have done is they've paid more money to get up to the leagues quicker because they realize that doing it quickly and getting riding the wave of attention would earn them a lot more money and if they can keep the back to back to back I reckon it's going to slow down now in the championship and they can afford it to but if that that's totally fine they could do five years in the championship and that is ah that is not a fail you know
00:41:08
Speaker
No, no, absolutely. From a footballing sense, it would only make sense that they'd end up around that long. But from their plan and their built-up around the the the myth that now is and the, ah say, like the documentary series,
00:41:28
Speaker
they kind of have to do it in two years but the thing is if that doesn't work out well that's the reality of football and people are now bought in enough whereas if they had got stuck in league two the attention would have waned very very quickly then it dwindles and and then you're also there comes a point where if you're a tiktok or an expedia they're going okay lads this was a nice experiment but we actually have bigger sponsorship opportunities and we're going we're we're just going to very quietly let this lapse and move on yeah and like so don't forget I know I keep going back to Birmingham and the money that they spend on one player.
Celebrity Ownership and Strategic Vision for Wrexham
00:42:00
Speaker
They're backed by Tom Brady. It's like, this is another celebrity style endorsement. And instead of trying to sustainably grow and build on things, it's throw money at it. is a And yeah, it worked for League One.
00:42:15
Speaker
okay it's only league one yeah you're shooting your shot very early and ultimately ah even if they did get promoted what's this going to mean for the financial rules now that they've they've we see that blown a lot very quickly and this is where i think you know all of these clubs who are in flux, you know, with with say the likes of Burnley going up, who also have a celebrity owner in in JJ Watt, albeit a minority owner, you've got Birmingham, you've got Wrexham, you know, they're now in such financial, financial
00:42:52
Speaker
polar opposites and they're really gonna have to have their ducks in a row to not start trundling down the leagues again you know like is ah ah i think the the key thing with the two lads in wrexham is that they very much said we are not football guys but they are business guys you know so they they leave all the football decisions to the football people and they are they take care along with their ceo and and and kind of humphrey kerr and and and those advisors and I think that's got to be the way it's going to continue because if they start getting involved in the football pieces now they're too far up in the in in the football hirera football pyramid to mess around if they haven't done it by now they're not going to do it because as you say they're businessmen and a businessman's not going to ah start playing games at the opportunity where he has the most to lose
00:43:46
Speaker
well you If they wanted to play a football manager, they could have done that in the National League and nobody would have really noticed and it would have been absolutely fine. They didn't. you You look at someone like Ryan Reynolds and you know think of him what you will and obviously there's a lot of press going around around him and his his wife off the back of that movie. But you look at the companies that he's been involved with, scaled and sold. He's not a stooge. You know you also look at him Rob McElhenney.
00:44:12
Speaker
He called him Robert, Jesus Who, I'm his mother. and And like he is countless series of of network television that he produces with his own company, writes and stars in. like i mean Yes, you're talking entertainment, not football, but these guys are...
00:44:29
Speaker
serious operators in their field and it seems to have translated and you know I think the and they went into this with their eyes open like Michael Haney watched Sunderland until I die and wanted to buy Sunderland knowing that it that's not going to be a possibility he went looking lower down when he's like okay yes I could take over this club and maintain what they're doing but if I want to get into the Premier League which is what I want to do I need superstar money and he went and got Reynolds like but he also not But he also got money with the right personality, though.
00:44:58
Speaker
You know, it wasn't some... Like, he could have got private equity easily.
00:45:04
Speaker
Sort of. But like the the thing about it was he he identified the kind of person and the kind of budget that he needed while they were in the National League. Yeah. this is not these These are lads that are thinking three, four, or five steps ahead rather than what's the immediate problem in front of them in a good way. like They can handle what's in front of them, but also they're thinking long term.
00:45:26
Speaker
So they I think they deserve a lot of credit and... and Yeah, like I it's going to be exciting if Sunderland is facing them in the the league next year. I think it'll be exciting. I may have to go over to Wales for a match. i Yeah, I'd be down for that. i absolutely will be. um would it would It would be great. um And yeah, like I think in ah in a world where we're seeing a lot more multi, multi millionaires and billionaires buying teams, um these are the least of all evils in that sense. so
00:45:59
Speaker
Do you think, not to dwell on Wrexham for too long, it hopefully we'll now a pocket of fans in Wales, um but do you think they'll go down a fundraising route akin to what Alpine did and you know sell 10% of the club to the biggest names they can find in order to be competitive?
00:46:20
Speaker
Or do they even need it?
00:46:23
Speaker
I ah wouldn't say they necessarily need it, um but I think more to the point, um I don't think they'd do it for success. I think they would do it if it's the right person.
00:46:36
Speaker
Like, I don't think they're just going to go and find the nearest billionaire that I'm sure they have on... Speed dial. Yeah, speed dial. But I'm sure if if it was the right person that was kind of like, okay, Robin, Ryan, and...
00:46:52
Speaker
Who? And I think that's the way they treat it. It's like, are you going to be one of us? We don't want your money. We want you and your enthusiasm. Because, like, McElhenney brought Reynolds in initially for the money, but they he knew him well enough. And he he was ah very much aware of his business acumen because you can't not be.
00:47:15
Speaker
um And ah he, as you say, he could have went for so somebody else. so They have enough to get them established.
00:47:27
Speaker
But if they want to kick on to the prem, they need it. If they want to kick on to the prem, I don't know they need it, need it. and Because who knows what kind of sponsorship things are going to be able to do then. and bo they would, they'll definitely have offers. I think that's more important that when they're at a point of being able to pick and choose, well then that's a much better position to be in than having to. Well, they've set their station in the fact that, you know, they want to own this club till they're in the ground and they've, they've sung that from, from high up. So, you know, I don't see them going anywhere, but I just,
00:48:02
Speaker
i hope their desire to keep the ownership of the team doesn't get in the way of its success from a point of view of it is one thing like the championship is like we said to get there incredible if they if they're there for five years i really don't see that as a problem but if they're to kick onto the prem straight off the back of that they need an injection of cash like we've seen that with the three clubs that went up this year and the three clubs that went up last year that went straight down like the and they're seasoned clubs you know that they they they're let's let's not forget what ipswich that was kind of a a pretty surprising promotion and welcome one so i don't think ipswich would see the relegation as a as a um oh that was a free that was a free failure that was a free season for it and i think they'll only grow from it as a club but i think karen mckenna and it was like when the coach you know that that was a gimme year you know
00:48:55
Speaker
Yeah, was like when Daniel Farke got Norwich up that first time and he kept kind of doing the bounce. It was like the second time coming back. Or Luton. Or even ma ah Burnley under Dyche went down with them, brought them back up and it's like, okay, now if you go back down, now it's a ah failure.
00:49:14
Speaker
I think Ipswich kind of have that in the bank. So like for the likes of of a Wrexham... um They're going to be coming into a very, very competitive league now.
00:49:27
Speaker
as As I know, being in the Lovane, we're there and we could still be there. Who knows? um Hopefully not. But ah the team's going down. Wrexham aren't going to be able to walk it. but that's what That's what I'm curious. Like, say, Wrexham-Ipswich, that's going to be very interesting to see. That'll be that' will show you the level they're at.
00:49:46
Speaker
Well, let's also not not forget, like, they haven't had a massive amount of squad turnover since League Two. Yeah. So, like, they are due a year off, basically.
00:49:58
Speaker
get Get in, get established, but they're they're also now in a position where players are going to want to play for them because of the profile and not have to charge them a lot of money. and they don't have to pay the Wrexham
Player Management and Future Expansion Plans
00:50:11
Speaker
tax anymore. Exactly. Yeah.
00:50:13
Speaker
If they want to, they can and get somebody bigger. But you're going to have a lot of these guys that are either rebuilding their careers or are very, very good championship players that know they're not good enough.
00:50:24
Speaker
Like, take a Dwight Gale. i was thinking i was thinking like I was thinking, like, not him, but like a Patrick Bamford. Yeah, but that kind of a player where it's like, you're very good in the championship.
00:50:35
Speaker
You're not good enough for the Premier League. But you're good enough teams you've been in But if you went into Wrexham, he'd be amazing. And he can kind be like, oh, well, I can be in Wrexham or I could be in...
00:50:48
Speaker
name a championship team, well, I might as well be in Wrexham. Get the get the brand personal brand side of it. Exactly. so Yeah. if I can take the same wage i've I've been on for the past three years, but I'm going to have 10, 20, 30 times the size of my Instagram following, which will allow me to make money outside of football.
00:51:08
Speaker
So I might as well do that and take the initial cut on my weekly wage. So they're going to be in a position where while they're consolidating themselves in the championship, that they're not going to have to actually break the bank.
00:51:20
Speaker
the The ruthless side of this as well is there's a lot of players that have got them to this point that won't be required anymore because they're not at the level needed. you know like I know the the the the series, which I love, and I do love the story of Wrexham.
00:51:37
Speaker
you know Like your Ollie Palmers, your Elliot Lees, your Paul Mullins, they're going nowhere. um Even if they were slightly off they they're, I suppose, characters now.
00:51:48
Speaker
But there's a lot of fringe players there that will probably have given everything and won't be kept on. Well, I think the likes of a Paul Mullin could actually... leave the club and it would be good for everybody because you can imagine him going to the to a lower mls team having an okay last year or two because the man just seems to be perpetually getting himself injured so i can't see him playing until 35 or anything like that so go out there where your stock is probably higher than it is in the uk do you think he'd get a contract over there if not in the mls um maybe the nasl
00:52:23
Speaker
yeah i kind the kind of second i think you're better and get paid good money think you're better being crocked injured half the time and play half the season for wrexham than doing that though you know but is better to go out there while your stock is high before you get forgotten about by the americans go out as a celebrity signing i just don't know if he has that poll right now i think if he gets a good year in the championship he could he was the welsh he was the welsh deadpool And he was on the cover of GQ. Yeah, he's not going to have a good career he's not going to have a good season and just in the championship.
00:52:58
Speaker
like he's They're seeing it in League One, he's already tapering off. like He's never before performed higher than League One. And even then, before this season, he only did it once.
00:53:09
Speaker
Paul, if you're listening, we love you. but Oh, like, great great guy. Seems to be an absolute legend. But go out and make your bank now in ah in a way that's going to actually long-term keep you good. Like, who's to say that Rob and Ryan don't actually go and buy an NASL club and just say, here, Paul, go out and be a marquee club? Yeah, that like, i mean, that isn't... ah That's actually a very interesting show because I know they're they're involved in a team in Mexico, I think it is with Eva Longoria. So like they are, exp expandla yeah, the, the camera, the name of them. um We'll, we'll come back to that one, but yeah, they're, they're they're diversifying their, their football portfolio. Now they're minor owners in, in, in that team, as opposed to majority owners, but it,
00:53:58
Speaker
It's not what I actually thought of, but it's kind of an obvious one, isn't it? The only thing is I think they'd be better placed, and I'm not saying this just for the optics of it. I think in terms of the storytelling element was if they bought a women's soccer team in the States.
00:54:11
Speaker
There could be a great story build off that. Yeah, um and the fact that think it's Angel angel City FC, yeah which you think is attached to LAFC.
00:54:23
Speaker
They have a load of, is it Natalie Portman? Yeah, there's a lot of female celebrity owners. Serena Williams. Yeah, in the US now. And then the LAFC, a load of celebrity owners as well. Will will Ferrell, I think, owned and part of them.
00:54:36
Speaker
um Just after looking it up there, Rob ah robin Ryan have a Colombian team. Colombian, okay. um So they are backed a group led by Tylis and Sam Porter.
00:54:52
Speaker
Sam Porter being an executive at Club Mexica, who Rob and Ryan are my ah minority owners That's why I was thinking Mexico. And Mesut Ozil.
00:55:03
Speaker
Oh! um He also owns part of that. But the investment group have 99% ownership of a team in the top division in Columbia. So they are building up a portfolio.
00:55:15
Speaker
um So who's to say that they don't expand further? Yeah. Yeah, or just start inserting some of their stars from the from the series. um And suddenly they put James McLean into Columbia and then sell that to the Colombian version of Netflix. You know what the easiest thing to do is?
00:55:34
Speaker
Buy Derry, get Jimmy over here, and we've got we've got a nice League of Ireland series to to to add to the to the the Disney suite. it would be absolutely incredible. But like, I think, I think that's what we're going to see with some of the kind of the stalwarts. And as you say, the characters in the series, I think they're going to be given,
00:55:57
Speaker
Glorified golden handshakes where possible. But you mentioned that they've been ruthless business-wise as and when needed. and I think they've listened to football people before.
00:56:11
Speaker
And I don't think they're going to have a nostalgia that's that will leave them chained to the to the floor of at the championship if they can help
Closing Remarks and Acknowledgments
00:56:21
Speaker
it.
00:56:21
Speaker
They may not have a nostalgia, but we will always have a nostalgia for football, and we look forward to chatting more about it with many more episodes to come. As always, thank you to Nate and Killian, and to our sponsor, DS Business Solutions.
00:56:37
Speaker
Bye-bye. Messi. Messi. Oh, my goodness. Atalei. Acquero. Oh, my God.
00:56:50
Speaker
It is extraordinary. What a head strike. What a head. Back of the net.