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144 Plays1 year ago
The story of someone about to disrupt a part of medicine.
“What if we were able to invent a technology, basically a new material, that would allow to repair and reconnect tissues without trauma, in an atraumatic manner, in a non-penetrating manner.”
What you're trying to do is big, it is going to take time and we're going to give you time.
20 YEARS IN PERSPECTIVE:
I love the last twenty years, I'm very excited for the next twenty to be honest.
I would have never described myself at the time as an entrepreneur, to be honest. So maybe people see things through you that you didn't even see about yourself when you look in the mirror.
One part of the [INSEAD] journey was to ask myself whether I was really certain I wanted to stay in healthcare and towards the end of INSEAD I was convinced that this was the industry I wanted to stay.
The best way to have an impact is to be with people you know yare gonna be able to contribute.
To be honest, I really love what I do, so I don't necessarily see it as work and because I don't see it as work, I can spend too much time on it, by definition.
MIT [scientists] had invented quite a profound technology in the domain of tissue repair and we decided altogether to start Tissium, which is a medical device company. So this is how I moved from biotech to medical devices.
We have raised a total of 170 million in the last ten years. We did the last fundraising in March 2023, it was between SVB and Credit Suisse, so it was an unusual period.
We build the company from day 0 with a very optimistic mindset saying if it works, it should work in many areas so let's build it, so that when we get there we can replicate and develop multiple solutions for patients. We operate in the space of peripheral nerve repair, where we can reconnect the nerve after a trauma, an accident, together.
We are developing implantable devices. It came from an insight from the MIT at the time, they invented a new material to try to reconnect tissues during surgical procedures.
We are a bit unique in the MedTech space. We are not proven yet in terms of business model. Today we have more than 20 families of patents, which have already generated a 60 or 70+ patents and we keep inventing every year.
ON TOPIC: Start-ups, entrepreneurship, founders, investors
We built Tissium to remain independent, we never build the company hoping to get acquired. You need to identify investors that believe in that vision, because if an investor is hoping to have an exit in the next two years, or 3 years, the discussion will be very different at the board, as someone who tells you “What you're trying to do is big, it is going to take time and we're going to give you time.”
When you build important things, or novel things, it takes time, it doesn't happen overnight. And because it's long, because it's hard, it's always easier to be with someone else, or a few other people.
ON TOPIC: MedTech, disrupt, healthcare, biology, science
You're about to disrupt a part of medicine.
Working with scientists – science is a domain which is, in theory, data driven in the sense that data is at the core of the discussion. Yet, what is a bit surprising, and it took me a certain time, scientists can be somewhat emotional, not on the data, but on the way they perceive their work and the way they try to achieve.
Sometimes scientists try to seek for perfection, which is in reality not achievable and one of the big challenges is, you need to make sure that they move their mindset from perfection to excellence. Because excellence you can reach it, perfection you will never [reach].
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Transcript
Introduction to Republic of Insead Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
This is Republic of Insead, the 20 years later O3D podcast edition. I am Milena Ivanova and will be your host in this limited series. So, here we are, 20 years later, hopefully all the wiser, naturally smarter and as charming as ever. There were 432 of us in the O3D vintage.
00:00:25
Speaker
And certainly there are 432 unique and very interesting personal and professional stories to tell. While I cannot physically cover all, I have tried to make a selection of stories that will keep you interested and curious and will hopefully convince you to join us on campus for reunion. Welcome to the Republic of Insead Podcast Edition and enjoy the show.
An Engineer's INSEAD Journey
00:00:49
Speaker
All right, he's not used to that, but now he's going to do it. An engineer with a second master in molecular biology goes to INSEAD and now is maybe about to disrupt one corner of our world. But first things first, here's his 20 year old Republic of INSEAD yearbook entry, open quotations. When he decided to attend INSEAD, he didn't know to what extent his life was about to change.
00:01:17
Speaker
The future biotech entrepreneur moved to Fontainebleau with the idea of meeting cool people and having a great time. He didn't expect that his MBA major would be earned in Burong Marlot as he specialized in psychology in order to manage daily fights between his roommates Natalie and Stefan. It was pretty easy for him to write his OB paper on conflict resolutions in groups.
00:01:45
Speaker
As any good MBA student, he was able to make use of the leverage effect. Now that he knows how conflicts arise, he makes sure he avoids them with Amelie, his charming wife that he married in Marseille on July 11th. His prior Japanese experiences brought him back to Asia for P5, where he spent most of his time but well in warm sand.
00:02:11
Speaker
End of quotation. Welcome to the Republic of Insead Podcast Edition, Mr. Guest. Do you remember who wrote your profile or does it sound familiar? Maybe Daniel. I'm not sure. I've said this before, but with you I have to repeat it again. I am shocked again and again how scarily accurate the forecasts on so many of us are from that yearbook.
00:02:37
Speaker
Now, whoever wrote your profile needs a lecture from you on the difference between Medtech and Biotech. I did get this one in our briefing, so I'm ahead of the game. But we'll get there shortly. Let's start from the beginning or the end, the last 20 years of your life in a nutshell, and you have five minutes for that.
Life Reflections: Family and Career
00:02:56
Speaker
Yeah, so the last long year has been busy, like I'm sure many of us. And I think one of the central piece was that I was blessed with our two kids, Clara, who was born in 2004, and Elliot, who was born in 2006. So it was really, I think that's one of the great achievements and journey of my life. Eventually, I did get divorced.
00:03:25
Speaker
So, but that happens, that happens. And I was also very lucky after that to find a new family with my partner. Now we have four kids. She had two kids on her side and honestly going through the four kids family is an amazing experience to us. So I really, really, really enjoyed it. And no, on the personal side, it was a,
00:03:55
Speaker
a very rewarding part of my life when I re-enjoyed every single bit of it with the ups and downs as always. But to be very honest, I'm so happy with where I stand today and I will not change anything from that journey. On the business side, I did not remember this notion of biotech entrepreneur.
00:04:21
Speaker
It's funny. And I would have never described myself at the time as an entrepreneur, to be honest. So maybe people see things through you that you didn't even see about yourself when you look in the mirror. And when I was at INSEAD, one part of this journey was to ask myself whether I was really certain I wanted to stay in healthcare.
00:04:45
Speaker
because right after university I joined the healthcare industry through the biotech side micro
00:04:52
Speaker
biology and molecular biology angle. And towards the end of inside, I was convinced that this was the industry I wanted to stay. And right after, I still decided to remain in that industry.
Healthcare to Biotech Transition
00:05:05
Speaker
And I looked what should be my first role. And I decided to work for a Swiss biotech company. It was a large organization. And I decided to start as a sales rep.
00:05:16
Speaker
So trying to be in contact with a customer, with a surgeon, with doctors, mainly taking care of the patients. And then I had many operational roles, marketing manager, sales manager, sales director. So I really evolved in that kind of business side of industry, where I used to come from the scientific side of industry.
00:05:38
Speaker
And that led me to another great company. After Serrano, I was contacted by the husband of a good friend of mine from college. And basically, he was working at a company called UCB, who was really going through a huge transformation. And they were looking to bring new folks in the organization with a different mindset. And I really love the people I met there.
00:06:08
Speaker
And not only unlike the company, but I love so much what people want to interview. And in the beginning, I just interviewed out of politeness just to be nice, because I was asked to. And the people I met there were just amazing. And I told myself, you want to have an impact. This is one of the reasons why you have been in that industry. And the best way to have an impact is to be with people you
00:06:32
Speaker
you know you're going to be able to contribute. And this is how I ended up moving to Belgium and work for UCB.
Founding TCM and Medical Innovations
00:06:41
Speaker
There were amazing years. There I work more on corporate roles, marketing. They send me to the US to work on market access, which is basically all the components where you work with insurance and
00:06:55
Speaker
and payers to make sure that your treatments are seen as valuable and covered. And eventually, they send me back to Europe to run the same group, but globally. And after three weeks, they asked me to switch and become a general manager of a French affiliate of another neural G-business. And these were really amazing years. And at the same time, my ex-wife, Amélie, was
00:07:23
Speaker
thinking of establishing a medical practice. So the back and forth global affiliate was not the right option for us as a family.
00:07:35
Speaker
And since after INSEAD, we've been traveling a lot, we decided that was the right time for her to set up her own practice and for us as a family to settle. She was a doctor. She's a medical doctor. She's an endocrinologist. And basically, she settled and set up her practice in South Africa, in Marseille, where we originated from.
00:08:01
Speaker
And I was working in Paris. And basically, after a few years, UCB wanted to send me back to the headquarters and eventually to another affiliate. So I thought it was a time maybe for me to take my own journey, I would say. And at the same time, I received an email from the CEO of my first
00:08:24
Speaker
company first job right after college and he sent us an email with an email address and I said oh that's strange email address never heard that company and basically I asked him and he told me we must have a coffee to discuss into more detail and basically he had the vision to create a startup studio in healthcare in Paris
00:08:49
Speaker
where the vision was to start and finance and grow and eventually create a fund after that for healthcare dedicated organizations. The name of that project is called iBioNEXT and basically he told me, I'm looking for CEOs and people. I have been able to scout many technologies. So if you're interested, just look at them and pick one. And this is really how it started. I left UCB.
00:09:17
Speaker
and starting to look at technologies. And along that journey, which took roughly six months, I was able to meet scientists from the MIT who had invented a new technology. And basically, I spent one week in Boston, Professor Bob Langer, Professor Jeff Karp, and a young PhD named Maria Pereira.
00:09:41
Speaker
They had invented a very quite profound technology in the domain of tissue repair. And we decided altogether to start TCM, which is a medical device company. So this is how I moved from biotech to medical device. And we started the company, the four of us. And Maya joined us as our chief innovation officer. She eventually went to INSEAD a few years later as a full-time MBA also. And then she came back to the company.
00:10:10
Speaker
So that's how I've been busy for the last 20 years, I would
Balancing Personal and Professional Life
00:10:16
Speaker
say. I've been working with Antisium for the last 10 years. So we're just celebrating the 10 years anniversary of a company. Anniversary. All right. So what did you say has been the most challenging aspects of, and it could be both personal and professional in these 20 years?
00:10:33
Speaker
I would say finding the right balance between personal life and business life. I'm a bit bimodal. Basically, I work or I spend time with my family. I'm not a great social animal, I would say.
00:10:54
Speaker
I was able to spend the right amount of time where it was deserved. To be honest, I really love what I do, so I don't necessarily see it as work. And because I don't see it as work, I can spend too much time on it, by definition. So making sure that I was there for
00:11:13
Speaker
Sorry, for the right moment for my family and my kids was quite important. But besides that, honestly, I loved it. I loved those lives 20 years. I'm very excited for the next 20, to be honest. But yeah, the challenge was to find the right balance and make sure that you can accommodate the people you love and the people you work with. On your work, you work with scientists.
00:11:41
Speaker
And they are also your partners, I understand. What are the easy and difficult parts about working with scientists?
Collaboration and Excellence in Science
00:11:49
Speaker
And clearly you come from an engineering and biology background. So you are a scientist, but you're a business person. So.
00:11:57
Speaker
Yeah, so what can be seen, myself being an engineer and having done some science, what I like, it's a domain which is, in theory, data-driven, in the sense that the data is at the core of the discussion, I would say. And so for me, I kind of like it. And I'm at ease with numbers and concepts.
00:12:25
Speaker
Yet, what is a bit surprising, and it took me a certain time, scientists can be somewhat emotional, not on the data, but on the way they perceive their work and the way they try to achieve. And one thing that was quite important, and when I say emotional, is in the sense of not rational. Yeah. Okay. The opposite of rational.
00:12:49
Speaker
And it has been sometimes a bit surprising. And sometimes scientists try to seek for perfection, which is inherently not achievable. And one of the big challenges is you need to make sure that they move their mindset from sometimes perfection to excellence. Because excellence, you can reach it.
00:13:16
Speaker
Perfection, you will never. And one of the big challenge in at least at this year I'm starting the company is that you need to translate an ID into a product. So if you keep seeking for pure perfection, you'll never get there.
00:13:34
Speaker
So you need to define what are your excellent criteria, what are the must, and how you get there. And that's really how we worked. I was extremely, extremely, extremely fortunate to meet at the beginning of that journey, Maria, my co-founder, who is an amazing person, besides being an inside alumnus now. And when we met, basically,
00:14:01
Speaker
She has been central to everything we did when it came to science. And to that respect, Maya has the right balance. And she is the one seeking excellence, not perfection, extremely pragmatic, but at the same time, extremely demanding. And she was able to really help us craft the company we have built together. And she has been able to surround herself with people that will follow that balance.
00:14:27
Speaker
of seeking, not always seeking, not seeking for perfection, but more seeking excellence. Very interesting. See, I learned something new again. I love it. So on the entrepreneurial, you said you were never planning to become an entrepreneur.
Entrepreneurship: Rewards and Challenges
00:14:42
Speaker
And there you are. What would you say are the most rewarding aspects of being an entrepreneur versus the corporate world?
00:14:50
Speaker
So on the rewarding side, I think it's really ownership. I'm not saying that in the corporate world you cannot own your decisions, the good ones and the bad ones, but sometimes you are facing some decisions that are pushed down to the organizations. Sometimes they may be short-sighted. Sometimes, unfortunately, decisions are more
00:15:19
Speaker
driven by politics than what's good for the customer, in our case, the patients or the surgeons, or what's good for the company. And in a small entrepreneur world, especially when you start from scratch, we are the limiting factors. So if we tolerate such behavior, you're responsible for it. So it's your own failure. And what I liked about being an entrepreneur
00:15:43
Speaker
is this notion of ownership on the good one on the good decision and the bad ones and we make unfortunately because we are human many bad decisions but we can correct them quickly this notion of as an entrepreneur you don't have a boss etc
00:16:02
Speaker
It's not true. You have a board and instead of having one bus, you have seven or eight buses. You have shareholders. So the reality is you are comfortable to others where you would be in a large organization. The difference is you can navigate
00:16:20
Speaker
yourself and you are responsible of a path. As long as you have an agreement with the board and the shareholders, you're still in charge. If one day you're not anymore, then you have to go, like in a large organization.
00:16:38
Speaker
I would say that what I really like is that notion of true ownership. There are also some difficult aspects, and I don't know if I'm more linked to being an entrepreneur or the CEO role. There is a form of loneliness, basically, by nature within the role, because people look at you for an answer, and you don't look to your board asking them what they think.
00:17:06
Speaker
You work with them to, I would say, ensure you are asking yourself the right questions, getting the right answers. So you leverage them as an advisor, a network. At the end of the day, the decision is made by the board, but this is an informed decision, a construct decision that you build with them. But as a CEO within the organization, you happen to be somewhat lonely.
00:17:29
Speaker
So the fact that I was able with Maria to build that kind of partnership was extremely, extremely central to where we have been able to go so far. And I think alone, I would not have been able to do it by myself. I'm not sure. We face so many challenges during that journey that when you're alone, I think it's already hard when you're two.
00:17:59
Speaker
When you're alone, I think it's even harder. Well, I had this in another episode of the podcast with Ricky and Mike. And in fact, they said they both got together in business after INSEAD and they said because doing it alone is crazy.
00:18:16
Speaker
You cannot survive the whole time being on your own. So they say even when they look now at other businesses to invest in, they look and they say if it's a single founder, it's a lot more challenging just because life happens, right? Business and life, everything. For sure. I completely agree with them and with that statement. What can happen, it did not happen to us, but what can happen is
00:18:46
Speaker
You have a one founder that starts, but he needs to be actively seeking.
00:18:52
Speaker
to bring on board people committed for the long term. Because I think it's about the commitments, about the duration of that commitment. Because when you build important things or novel things, it takes time. It doesn't happen overnight, sorry. And basically, you need to work on those things. And because it's long, because it's hard, it's always easier to be with someone else.
Innovations in Tissue Repair Technologies
00:19:21
Speaker
And that gives me a great entry into the topic of med tech and what you're actually building. I said in the beginning, you're about to disrupt a part of medicine, let's say. Tell us about TCM. Tell us about the technology. Maybe start with the lecture gave me med tech, biotech, pharma. I have interviewed by now. So we've had Andrew Booth, who is in biotech, Kadia Gopal, who is in pharma.
00:19:49
Speaker
So looking at the health, broader health industry, we have quite a few classmates in the broad field, which is great, but walk us through and then TCM and then the technology.
00:20:03
Speaker
Yeah, very briefly. So healthcare, I would say you could, it's very, it's a basic description. You could split it in two directions. The drug world where basically you put, you give a patient a treatment that will work on his body or metabolism or the cells, everything.
00:20:32
Speaker
And the tech world, which is MedTech, where basically you design or you craft devices that work, that supplements some functions. To give you an example, glasses, lens, or medical devices, like a pair of gloves or a table in VR, and it goes to another extreme hard valve that is implanted.
00:20:55
Speaker
or pacemaker would be also medical devices. So you can see these are physical objects that will have an impact and also diagnostic are considered medical devices.
00:21:07
Speaker
diagnosing tools, you know, the COVID test we used to do, our medical devices, I would say. And so the world split in two. And typically, a farmer and biotech will work with doctors, medical doctors, whereas in the space of medical devices, we tend to work with surgeons.
00:21:29
Speaker
or biologists when it comes to diagnostic. In the case of TCM specifically, we are developing implantable devices, so we work solely with surgeons.
00:21:42
Speaker
And in the space of the medical device industry, basically, it's an industry that is very US-centric. The big, big players are US organizations. And a lot of innovation is coming from a small organization like TCM. So what do we do at TCM? Basically, it came from an insight from the MIT at the time. They invented a new material.
00:22:12
Speaker
to try to reconnect tissues during surgical procedures. And if you look at the way it's done today, basically the surgeons are using staples, sutures, nails, tacks, and all those techniques were translated from, I would say craftsmanship, how you put together two pieces of fabrics. If you do that on an inert material, that's not a big deal, but as soon as you do that on a living tissue, on a human body, basically,
00:22:40
Speaker
In some instances, the technology you are using will create a trauma on the tissue you're supposed to repair. In many cases, it's not a big deal. It can be a scar or whatever. But depending on where the surgery is done and on which tissue it's done, the repair itself can be detrimental. And the insight from the MIT was, what if we were able to invent a technology
00:23:05
Speaker
that, and basically it was a new material, that would allow to repair and reconnect tissues in an atromatic manner, in a non-penetrating manner. And basically they developed a polymer, so it's a liquid compound that can be used inside the patient's body. And that material can be used, it has the same consistence as honey, basically. So you can use it as an adhesive to reconnect tissues together.
00:23:32
Speaker
You can also use it as a resin to fabricate implants and today we are using it
00:23:37
Speaker
to 3D print medical devices that are then inserted inside the body and then fixated to the body using the liquid form of the polymer, the adhesive. And we can even use it to deliver drugs. So that was a very broad invention from MIT. And as you can see, it's a platform in terms of applications. And one of the challenge was that, where do you start from? And that was one of the challenges at the beginning of a journey, basically.
00:24:07
Speaker
But thankfully with Maria, we always add the vision that if we were able to translate the technology from this idea or concept into a product, there should be more than one product. And we build the company from day zero with a very optimistic mindset saying, if it works,
00:24:28
Speaker
It should work in many areas. So let's build it so that when we get there, we can replicate and develop multiple solutions for patients. So today we have developed three surgical verticals. We operate in the space of peripheral nerve repair, where we can reconnect the nerve after trauma and accidents together. Amazing. You basically insert the severed nerve into a tiny chamber.
00:24:57
Speaker
that has been 3D printed by us. And to give you a sense, the smaller chamber we have is a 1.5 millimeter diameter with a 7.5 millimeter length where you can reconnect the nerve without damaging the tissue itself. So you insert the nerve, and after you fixate that chamber using the adhesive on the outside, the nerve will grow, and the chamber and the adhesive will bioresorb. They will go away eventually after the surgery has been completed and the tissue has been
00:25:25
Speaker
fully restored. We have another set of programs in ventral hernia repair which is abdominal reconstruction and basically when you have one of the trauma we use the polymer here to fixate the implants that are used, standard implants, instead of
00:25:44
Speaker
screwing them into your abdominal cavity. Today it takes 20 to 30 tasks, so this kind of extremely invasive and penetrating technologies. We are able to coat the implants and insert, make two tiny holes in your abdominal cavity, go with devices and cameras and deploy the mesh and fixate into your abdominal cavity in a non-invasive manner.
00:26:10
Speaker
Down the road, we believe we will be able to use this with robots because it's the same application. So that's our domain in GI. And the last one is in cardiovascular surgery, where we are using the polymer as a sealant to ensure that the anastomosis, basically when you're putting sutures on the vessels, the arteries, if you have a leakage, you can
00:26:35
Speaker
close that leakage using the polymer. So today we are working in those three domains on a total of seven products. So in each of those domains, we have multiple products. And our strategy is to develop the technology by ourselves.
Commercial Strategy for TCM
00:26:50
Speaker
But also in some cases, we will commercialize the technology directly to hospital and surgeons in the business domain where the number of surgeons are somewhat limited. That's the case for nerve and nerve repair.
00:27:05
Speaker
And in the case, we have to go in a domain where you have many, many surgeons to call on. Our strategy is to partner and license out the technology with existing players that will benefit to add this technology to their existing portfolio. We have a kind of hybrid commercialization strategy, but all the research, all the developments is controlled by TCM. We have a very strong
00:27:30
Speaker
portfolio of IP. Today we are more than 20 families of patents, which have already generated 60 or 70 plus patents, and we keep inventing every year.
00:27:41
Speaker
The other crazy thing that we had to do with Maria at the time was nobody has ever produced the polymer. So there were no subcontractors. And the equipment that was required, the industrial equipment that was required to produce the polymer has never been invented or fabric built. So we had to build it. And then we had to make a decision, where do we put it? In our own factory or someone's factory being highly dependent on that third party.
00:28:10
Speaker
So with our board and our investors, we made the decision in 2017 to build a state-of-the-art manufacturing facility, which is in the north of France, with no commercial product.
00:28:24
Speaker
Because in our industry, which is highly regulated, basically what you submit to the authorities needs to be assessed, validated, tested with a commercial version of your product. Because if you produce something in a tiny lab that is of good quality, and you develop all your validation, and you submit that to your authorities, they will approve it.
00:28:49
Speaker
but the commercial product would have to come from the same supply. If you were to change the supply to bring it to a new facility, you have to redo everything. And because we had this platform approach and we knew that if we hoped that if we were successful, we could really deploy many applications, we made a huge bet at the time. We really made a huge, huge bet at the time, which was let's build a facility, let's produce
00:29:14
Speaker
batches to regenerate the data so that eventually we can go commercial with those technologies, which is why today we are submitting to the U.S. authorities more or less one product every nine months because we collected all the data and now we have a stage where we are submitting, submitting, submitting. So the company is really growing and expanding at the current time. Amazing. And so how much
00:29:43
Speaker
Capital did you need to get to this point? How much have you raised capital? So we raised a total of 170 million in the last 10 years. We did the last fundraising in March 2023. It was a bit hectic. It was between SVB and the Credices. So it was an unusual period.
00:30:10
Speaker
But we have a strong base of investors who have been supporting us. They believe in the story, they believe in the vision, and we are really executing. And as I said, this year we have been busy submitting to the authorities, having in parallel multiple clinical trials. And for a company of our size, typically when you do one of those events or twice a year, it's huge already. And we did those key
00:30:39
Speaker
submission slash start of clinical trials. In the first six months, we did four of them. So the company is really at the stage where we are massively accelerating. We are starting to build the commercial infrastructure in the US. We will be launching these technologies first in the US. So yeah, the company is really moving away from the R&D organization into a commercial organization. And we hope to be commercial next year. And how big is the team at the moment?
00:31:07
Speaker
So we are 110. So we have 10 plus folks in the US. The rest is based in France. We have 30 people, 25 to 30 people at our manufacturing site in North of France and 70 plus in Paris, where we have the headquarters, research, development of the innovation group and the development is based in Paris. We are investing.
00:31:36
Speaker
What is the down the road you said you're looking forward to the next 20 years? What's the vision? Where do you see this in the best case scenario? Where is TCM? Where is the business going?
Vision for TCM's Future
00:31:49
Speaker
We are a bit unique in the Medtech space and we are not proven yet in terms of business model because we have a slightly different approach. In the Medtech space, usually innovation comes from a surgeon
00:32:02
Speaker
speaking with an engineer, because they are facing a challenge in the operating room and they would like to do it different. And then the engineer looks around themselves, what are the building blocks, they innovate, and they assemble new technologies that were never assembled together before or in a new way. What the MIT did was completely the opposite.
00:32:23
Speaker
They came up with a material that we are designing into products. So this has two implications. The first one is if we are successful, the technology will not be limited to one domain. If you design a neurotic valve, it's going to work for the heart, nothing else. Which is why most of the medical device industry in the past has been driven through acquisition. The startup is built because of a need.
00:32:52
Speaker
They demonstrate that they can address that need. Successfully, they start to have some sales. And after a large player comes down and acquired with a company, because since you only have one product or maybe two products, you will never license it. So those companies get acquired.
00:33:09
Speaker
In our case, we could easily foresee a situation in which for certain therapeutic domain where the polymer is used, we keep them for ourselves. And we said we are just a standard medical organization, medical device organization. But for others, as I said, we developed them and they commercialized it so we can license it because we have multiple product licensing, one here and one there will not arm the capacity of a company to keep innovating.
00:33:37
Speaker
Another layer which is key is we have full control on the supply, and the way the products are fabricated, we are using what I would call pharma grade processes, which the Medtech do not master.
00:33:48
Speaker
so they would have to rely on us as subcontractors. So we have the ideas to have an open innovation system where you can use the technology for multiple applications. We facilitate all those innovation steps because we know the product pretty well. We also
00:34:07
Speaker
supply the technology for ourselves, but also for third parties. So down the road, our 10 years, 20 years down the road, success for me would look like we have multiple business verticals. We are commercializing some of our product directly with partners, but also people come to us, whether they are innovators or large medical device organizations, saying we have this medical need
00:34:33
Speaker
What could we do with your technology? So basically our polymers become a new standard as many materials are already available in the industry and we create a new standard in the domain for atromatic tissue repair. This is really what we have been trying to build so far.
00:34:50
Speaker
So we are on that journey. We need to prove a full business model. I believe it will be, we are working hard to prove it in the next two years, I would say, by bringing all those technologies to the market and then fine tuning the commercialization strategy. I think one of the unique components of TCM is because of this notion of platform, we have the optionality at commercialization.
00:35:16
Speaker
which typically tech startups don't really have because they have to sell their products. When you have one product, you have to demonstrate its value up to commercialization. In our case, our goal is to have multiple products, giving us the flexibility on the commercial path. Is your last round of funding, is the valuation of this confidential or it's public? Excuse me? The valuation at which the round was done. Is it public or it's confidential?
00:35:45
Speaker
It's confidential. But to me, it sounds like we are talking to a unicorn founder.
00:35:51
Speaker
down the road, maybe. One of the other components is that we build TCM to remain independent. We never build the company hoping to get acquired. We don't say it's never going to happen, but we never crafted the organization hoping to be acquired. So you make very different decisions because you make decisions for the next 20 years. So sometimes these are hard decisions, hard commitments, and you need to identify investors that believe
00:36:19
Speaker
in that vision, because if an investor is hoping to have an exit in the next two years or three years, the discussion will be very different at the board. As someone who tells you what you're trying to do is big, it's going to take time, and we're going to give you time. Please go fast, but we're going to give you the time that is required. And I was very fortunate
00:36:43
Speaker
to find some of those investors. One of them was Sophie Nova with Antoine Papanek. He joined us in 2016 as an investor. And basically he gave us the right to dream big and really put in place and in motion that platform strategy.
00:37:02
Speaker
Amazing story. I love it. I get goosebumps really like I wish you the best the best of luck, but it sounds like Very very exciting times ahead still. Would you ever go public or?
00:37:17
Speaker
That's a potential path, especially if we want to remain independent. Because if we were to keep advancing the platform, one acquirer would be more interesting in one product than the other. So they would not value the entire organization the way as the sum of the paths, because they would be interesting only in one or two of the pieces. So as I was saying, if we are successful, the path towards becoming public increases over time.
00:37:44
Speaker
What's the biggest risk to the success scenario? Today, we still have to finalize some regulatory validation, which are central. In healthcare, you need to be very, very humble. You're dealing with biology and it's a science, it's a precise science, but it's not mathematics, one plus one.
00:38:08
Speaker
Sometimes you don't know exactly. You need to study. So I think humility is key and this is something I've learned in the past few years. You need to have a long-term vision and you need to know that it's not going to be a straight line. So we have to go through the regulatory process. The technology has been de-risked. The manufacturing capabilities has been de-risked. Our capacity to address multiple therapeutic domains, the platform and the
00:38:31
Speaker
multiple product approach, I believe have been the risk. So now it's re-executing so that we can put together the right dossier so that the health care, I mean, the regulators approve our product. And after its commercialization, it's a commercial execution. There you are. Well, good luck. Fingers crossed. Super exciting. If we can move to INSEAD and your connection to INSEAD, you mentioned
00:39:00
Speaker
In fact, in our briefing you were saying that you encouraged Maria to go to INSEAD and choose INSEAD.
INSEAD's Impact and Giving Back
00:39:08
Speaker
So what's your thinking? What have you gotten away from INSEAD? I like the foundational component of the curriculum, especially from an engineer. And I felt it was useful to me, but most importantly,
00:39:29
Speaker
personal experience at INSEAD before you meet, the way it brought on your horizon. Clearly you understand that you learn from others and being in contact with others was really instrumental. I really think that it allowed me to go on a different orbit, to change my trajectory.
00:39:50
Speaker
in a good way and in a fun way because I've not yet met someone from inside who felt that the year was terrible. So you have a great time. You try to get smarter. You meet great people. So I really believe that especially after working a few years, it's really a great time to reflect on what you did before and where you could go. And as I mentioned to you, it was for me a year where I really asked myself, will you remain and stay in the healthcare industry?
00:40:20
Speaker
And the answer was my answer, not an answer that was driven by my work activities. And you're stuck there because you have been doing that without asking yourself a question. So I think also what I really like with my art inside, it was a time for me.
00:40:38
Speaker
to ask myself some questions or to have the time to ask those questions and maybe get an answer. So I think it was very central in defining who I am today. I was blessed in my life to attend some great education organization. My middle school and high school, I was educated in a Jesuit school.
00:41:08
Speaker
was I now see it as a defining moment for me. Not at the time, but 30 years after. And this is why I believe that those unique institutions can have an impact in shaping you. And Inside is one of them. Yeah. And you're a green donor pin holder. So already giving to Inside. How do you think about giving in general and then giving back to Inside in particular?
00:41:37
Speaker
Yeah, so I think when you are lucky enough to receive at some stage, it's good to give back in different forms. And there are many different ways to give back for sure. And as I said, I was very fortunate to be exposed to and receive a lot.
00:41:56
Speaker
So I think having an opportunity to give back is central. INSEAD, as I said, has really helped us. And when we have a capacity to give back, I think I would recommend to do so because
00:42:11
Speaker
then you create an evergreen mechanism so that things keep growing by themselves. That's a bit central. As I said, I was very fortunate to be in an amazing mid-school and high school and where my kids have been by chance, I would say. And they asked me to spend some time and help them out on few items. So I've been volunteering for the school as a board member, but also we are helping
00:42:41
Speaker
We are helping the school build a new campus in Marseille, in a district with a high, I mean,
00:42:53
Speaker
with a lot of inherited people. And basically, you really see by helping and trying to build those things, you really see what you did receive. So again, I think I was fortunate to receive a lot and it's time to give back in a good way because you want the others to be able to get it and do the same down the road. So, everything that has been organized at INSEAD and thank you, Milena and the team for supporting it.
00:43:21
Speaker
It's central. And the opportunity to give back and keep inside growing and evolving as we go is important. Well, thank you very much. Now to the last bit, which is the quick round
Quickfire Personal Reflections
00:43:35
Speaker
of questions. If you are ready, we start. Proudest achievement. Our kids and my new family of six. I love it. Success for you is? Happiness and having an impact. Okay, so happiness is success. There it is. Yeah, for me, thanks.
00:43:50
Speaker
Just success is what drives me. Biggest regret? I'm not the kind of person that looks back. I try to learn from my experience, but I don't regret. I own my mistakes and move forward to try to make different mistakes. What keeps you awake at night?
00:44:15
Speaker
I'm a very good sleeper. It takes me five to ten minutes to fall asleep. So I may wake up in the morning by myself, but I usually I'm a good sleeper. That's good for a long life. If you had to do it all over again, what would you change?
00:44:33
Speaker
I would nothing big in the sense that I really love the life I have, I had, and I would not want to change anything major, being afraid not to meet or, I mean, and live with the people I live now. So I would tweak stuff. But honestly, I'm not saying that I'm happy and arrogant. It's just that I really love my life. I love the people I met.
00:45:03
Speaker
And I would hate not to have them around me, so I would keep it as it is. Wish you had known or someone had told you. What I wish... So maybe something I'm still learning, I'll learn a bit late and I'm still learning. Maybe take care of myself a bit more.
00:45:26
Speaker
I'm in a good health. I'm very lucky with that. Take care of myself a bit more in the sense, practice sports on a regular basis, be a bit more healthier in my behaviors, not try to go to push too much to the limits, and now getting 50.
00:45:46
Speaker
I start to be a bit more reasonable on those things. And it's hard to learn to get a new habit when you're 50. If I could have a bad habit when I was 15.
00:45:58
Speaker
I'm sure it will be easier. So my kids do practice sports and that's great. I'm very happy for them. I have no responsibility. It came from their mother. So she was much better than I was on that with them. And I wish I could have learned that a bit earlier. Retirement, ever or never? I would say never. I don't anticipate to retire. I may do different things, slow down, but I would not retire.
00:46:25
Speaker
If you had to pick one book, everyone should read. Okay, so one of my favorite books is The Little Prince, Pretty Prince. I loved it when I was 10, again at 20, even more when I was 30.
00:46:40
Speaker
still at 40 and I'm thinking of reading it again now that I'm attending 50. Honestly, it's one of my favorite books because I think it says a lot about people and relationships. So I loved it. Most admired public person.
00:46:57
Speaker
So in the past, he was not that public, but he was the person I admire the most. And now he's public, so I can share with you his name. It's my brother, Stefan. So I always, we have a very, very close relationship. I always admire him the most. He has been doing an amazing, amazing... Well, maybe you should give the background because I don't think people necessarily know. So Stefan, my brother Stefan is the CEO of Moderna.
00:47:26
Speaker
There you go. And they've been able to move a vaccine to us. Yes, there you go. And he is in the world of biotech, so I don't know how that works. Did he also study biology? He started Medtech. That's true. He started diagnosis and moved to drugs after his MBA at Harvard. And I did the opposite. Okay, so now we have a Harvard INSEAD competition.
00:47:52
Speaker
No, no competition in the community. But do you ever consult each other on the business aspect? When we are with a family, we tend not at all to speak business because we both have strong presence, so it would kill the family of reunions. When we need to speak to each other, we call, we leverage, I mean, we chat.
00:48:19
Speaker
But that's not the central part of our relationship. Yeah, healthy siblings are. Yeah. It's a relationship, right? It's not the transaction. We speak multiple times a week, text. I mean, we are very proud, but it's more on the family. It's on us than the business. Most despised public person. I don't have time for that. All right. And the last one, are you coming to reunion?
00:48:46
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. All right. Obviously, I channel my friends to make sure I would be there. So, yes. Super. All right. Now I can finally say officially, this was a conversation with Christophe Banssel, who is an entrepreneur, founder and CEO of TCO. And I'm very much looking forward to the next 20 years and news coming from that end. Thank you so much for your time and for your generosity and very much looking forward to seeing you in October.
00:49:14
Speaker
Thank you, Meenana. Thank you for everything you do. Looking forward. Take care. You were listening to the Republic of Insead 20 years later or 3D podcast edition. It is my hope to remind everyone what an interesting and dare I say colorful bunch of people we are and how much we can contribute to each other, be it through ideas, knowledge or mere inspiration. The podcast is inspired by the original Republic of Insead yearbook
00:49:42
Speaker
Produced on paper 20 years ago by Oliver Bradley and team. Thank you all and team for this contribution to our classes memory and for letting me continue in the tradition title and inspiration included. Creator and author of the Republic of India, 20 years later, all three deep podcast edition. Am I Milena Ivanova, original music by Peter Dondakoff would help from their films productions.
00:50:06
Speaker
Stay tuned for more and remember to book your tickets for the 20-year reunion in Fontainebleau October 6th, 8th, 2023. Thank you for listening.