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00:00:01
The monkey does it better than us, AI is going to do it better than the monkeys.
143 Plays1 year ago
It's surprising to me that people are still amazed at the fact that banks can go bust. It most definitely will not be the last time [a bank goes bust], it's a cyclical thing.
20 YEARS IN PERSPECTIVE:
“I try not to do stress.”
We had initially gone to Dubai to spend 4 years there. 4 years turned into 13. All in all can't complain, it's been a good couple of decades.
The challenge has been to maintain a good balance of finding stimulation at work, finding stimulation at home with your family, with your sports, with your activities and then obviously with your friendship. As you start to bring other elements into this equation, it becomes extremely complicated to find the right balance.
Sports [for me] has always been a huge part in terms of finding some kind of chemical balance I think there's a huge impact there.
It's important not to take yourself too seriously right?
If you were no longer around is your job that essential that there is a crisis and the answer - people will find alternative ways and the world continues to turn. So I think if you don't take yourself so seriously and sometimes have a little reality check it helps to deal with perceived stress. I try not to do stress.
I'm a bit of a stoic, so we don't do regrets, but learnings. There are too many learnings I think, to list them here.
“Retirement ever or never” – “Definitely ever. But I have a whole bunch of other stuff that I want to do, so it won't be retirement per se. But retirement from banking, yeah, that's coming up.”
ON TOPIC: Banking, private banking, neo banks, digital currencies, bank busts and more
The traditional model [of banking] is reaching the end of its journey.
When everybody knocks up, rocks up at your door and they want their cash at the same time the bank goes bust. It is honestly as simple as that. That is what happened to Credit Suisse.
We dealt with this in a very Swiss and pragmatic way: there's a bank run, it's Credit Suisse, okay UBS, you're buying them and that's just the end of it. And we will provide you with the necessary guarantees to do so please make sure it's done in 48 hours.
Some version of chat GPT whether it's 4 or 5 or 6 and they've already had some experiments will end up picking stocks way better than a human being.
AI will be able to process amounts of information that human beings are just not capable of doing and so I think that is going to make banks better, cheaper for the end user, right? And the winners will be those who will have invested and deployed this technology in an appropriate and applicable manner.
Crypto - I'm still not sure in the current state of things that it has any applicability whatsoever quite frankly.
Will we emerge from currency to some form of digital currency - one hundred percent we will and it's just a natural evolution of currency. We used to barter, and then used to use precious metals, and then currency came into effect, and then it was coins and bills, and all of that will disappear and it'll all be digitalized.
Does bitcoin take over from the US dollar and the Swissie? No I don't think so.
ON TOPIC: State of play for the world, geopolitics
Is it that the world is in a mess or is it that human beings are messy creatures?
Not to be cliché, but [the world] is getting more polarized at every level of society and in countries, exacerbated by social media.
All THINGS INSEAD AND GIVING BACK
In life the most valuable thing that you could possibly have are friendships. And INSEAD has undoubtedly given me extremely precious friendships of people that are like-minded, generous, extremely intelligent and towards whom I've been able to turn for advice for real kind of genuine conversation over the years.
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Transcript
Introduction to the Republic of INSEAD
00:00:00
Speaker
This is Republic of Insead, the 20 years later O3D podcast edition. I am Milena Ivanova and will be your host in this limited series. So, here we are, 20 years later, hopefully all the wiser, naturally smarter and as charming as ever. There were 432 of us in the O3D vintage.
00:00:25
Speaker
And certainly there are 432 unique and very interesting personal and professional stories to tell. While I cannot physically cover all, I have tried to make a selection of stories that will keep you interested and curious and will hopefully convince you to join us on campus for reunion.
Meet the Guest: A Former Swiss Private Banker
00:00:45
Speaker
Welcome to the Republic of Insead Podcast Edition and enjoy the show. You're smart. That's all right.
00:00:53
Speaker
I just said he's smart, guess who? All right, so now I should start by saying, having come from a banking background myself post-Vinciad, I'm least interested in stories that have to do with banking and the world of finance in general. But then again, my guest today promised to be provocative, in other words, his usual self, so I cannot resist it. But first things first, let's check out how well his Republic of Vinciad year book entry has aged.
00:01:23
Speaker
I open for patience. The quintessential Swiss private banker, we are still wondering whether he's really part of the secret service, although we wouldn't know of which country. Always the man about town, there are more photos on the K drive of Monsieur B with his trademark cigar than of Anderson eyebrowing the camera with upward thrusting fists.
00:01:49
Speaker
able to communicate in any language you request, give you the latest stats in every sport, encapsulate world political conflicts in minutes, fly planes, sink a good hole in a few, destroy opponents in tennis, party until the wee hours, yet be up 0600 for the morning endurance test through the forest.
Humorous Student Days at INSEAD
00:02:11
Speaker
We all started wondering whether he is really man, machine, or beast.
00:02:17
Speaker
Always there when you need him, he leaves no stone unturned. Voted as one of the top three bachelors of the section, the hardcore, what-the-swirling Iranian Swiss is a man to be watched." I think that was with David away, but welcome, Beast, to the Republic of India at Popcast. Yeah, I'm not sure how accurate that was, but okay. Well, well.
00:02:44
Speaker
Well, let's check it out. So three quick questions to update everyone on this year. Can't you still smoking cigars? Occasionally. You fly planes? I do. Yeah. Where is your handicap at? I have multiple handicaps, but golfing one is probably around a 10.
00:03:04
Speaker
Well, there you go. So the ear book entry sounds quite accurate now. All right. There you go. And maybe one last question from me before we really begin. Are you still happily rested after five hours of sleep per night? Yeah, I think unfortunately age has taken its toll. I need six.
00:03:22
Speaker
Oh well, oh well. You know, I almost got into the ER because of you during the INSEAD year because I tried to pull up the wheelchair and then I got such hard issues that thankfully we have a doctor in our section, only
Career Progression and Impact Investing
00:03:37
Speaker
the ER.
00:03:37
Speaker
yeah my heart i couldn't breathe and he's like well how do you eat i eat normal well how do you sleep well i can't sleep because there's too much partying and too much studying and too much too much he said well i don't need to ask you more questions start sleeping more so your magic works for you but not for me there you go all right well
00:03:58
Speaker
Well, come again and let's start from the beginning or the end. The last 20 years in a nutshell, five minutes tell us what you've been up to and where you ended at. Wow. Okay. Well, after INSEAD, if you remember, I got married pretty quickly thereafter.
00:04:22
Speaker
and moved relatively rapidly. I think it was 05 to the Middle East, where we settled in Dubai, where I remained in banking and had both of our kids born there. We had initially gone to Dubai to spend four years there and then come back to Switzerland. Four years turned into 13. I did a whole host of different financial kind of
00:04:50
Speaker
banking related jobs out there at some point with a couple of actual INSEAD grads, but 10 years before us, I think they were a class of 93 or 94. We set up an impact investing business focusing on sub-Saharan Africa before coming back to the dark side. And, uh, and eventually, you know, moving back to Switzerland, I think it's about six years ago now where, um, you know,
00:05:18
Speaker
Two kids have grown up, two dogs, and still very much involved in all things banking, both traditional and digital.
Innovation and Digitalization in Banking
00:05:28
Speaker
So it's been a fun ride. I can't believe it's been 20 years. We've stayed in touch. A bunch of us have stayed in touch more than with others. I think all in all, can't complain. It's been a good couple of decades. There you go. So banking, but not on the private side anymore.
00:05:49
Speaker
Well, yeah, I think I have two hats today. So one hat is very much still on the private side. And then my other hat is more on the kind of incubation of new neo-digital banks, which we've accomplished quite successfully over the past five years. I've had a number of discussions as well with some of our classmates.
00:06:12
Speaker
you know, Mike, Ricky, they've been quite active in FinTech as well. So it's a space which is increasingly of interest to me moving away from the more traditional banking. And I think, you know, it's something which will keep me intellectually stimulated going forth as opposed to sticking to the traditional model, which I think is, and you know, we can discuss this a little bit more at length, is reaching the end of its journey.
00:06:39
Speaker
Well, let's do that. But as I said, coming from, well, I quit banking in 2013. And basically- Wise woman. Well, having been a bank's analyst, I was like, there's no way this thing can continue, right? But I was proven wrong because 10 years later, it's still going on. And I don't regret it. But I was, you know, analyst, we like to be right. And most of the time, we are wrongs.
00:07:09
Speaker
So there you go, banking. But before we go into banking in more detail, and you've promised me lots of controversy, so I'm dying for this bit, let's just wrap up here on what have been the biggest challenges or the biggest challenge for you in these 20 years? I think the challenge has been to maintain a good balance of finding stimulation at work,
00:07:38
Speaker
finding stimulation at home, with your family, with your sports, with your activities, and then obviously with your friendship. And I think the biggest challenge as you start to bring other elements into this equation, it becomes extremely complicated to find the right balance. And that for me is, you know, it took a long time to try and find the right way, the right dosage of
00:08:08
Speaker
you know, time spent with friends without family, time spent with family without friends, time spent at work, time spent doing sports, and then, you know, other intellectual stimulation
Bank Collapses and Future Outlook
00:08:20
Speaker
through your hobbies. I mean, for me, flying takes a lot of my time, something I need, and I find it extremely difficult as time goes on to find this balance. I think that was something which I struggled with a lot, which I think today
00:08:36
Speaker
I found a bit of a balance which seems to work for me and for my family. So that's been a challenge. The balance, finding the balance. All right, so let's dive into banking. And when we spoke in the preliminary discussion, you said you will be controversial. So you're back in Switzerland, and we recently had the whatever you want to call it, situation with trade
00:09:09
Speaker
And you told me, well, we'll continue to have bank favors and this is why. So explain it to me. I think it's not really a question of being controversial as a matter of fact. It's surprising to me that people are still
00:09:28
Speaker
I'm amazed at the fact that banks can go bust. I mean, they're extremely fragile business models, very, very difficult to get a grasp of. You are a financial analyst. I mean, if I tell you to express an opinion on a bank like JP Morgan or Cardi Suisse or UBS, it is extraordinarily complicated to go through 500 pages of footnotes in an annual report and understand what really you're talking about. And so I think there's a lot of bluff
00:09:57
Speaker
around the analytical community and as
Swiss Banking Crisis Management
00:10:01
Speaker
well among regulators who have proven that things can get out of hand. And I think it's unfortunately an industry which is relatively profit and hence greed driven. And so where there's a buck to be made
00:10:18
Speaker
people will try and sway the risk equation in their favor until you have kind of some mass knee-jerk reaction like a bank run, in which case the emperor is left with no clothes on. And that will happen again and again and again because although people like to bash banks, we all need them. You need them to fund your business. You need them to open a bank account. You need them to mortgage your house.
00:10:47
Speaker
So people turn to them by default without really understanding the beasts that they're dealing with. From a regulatory perspective, it's extremely complicated to provide firm oversight. At the same time, these are profit-making machines. I don't know why the public should be so surprised that banks fail now. That's why I told you when we chatted that
00:11:14
Speaker
it most definitely will not be the last time. It's a cyclical thing. But somehow when it happens in Switzerland, it's extraordinary, right? Yeah, I think the regulators here dropped the ball. I mean, we had five systemic banks in Switzerland. Now we only have four. And again, I think the Credit Suisse one was a kind of cocktail of things which all came to a head.
00:11:43
Speaker
You don't want to get into all of that. Now it's not really the right form and probably end up boring everyone. But the regulator dropped the ball. That's the bottom line. The regulator, auditors, you could say the same thing, but you could counter argue that
00:12:01
Speaker
How would you anticipate a bank run? And that's, in essence, what took Credit Suisse down. People just lost trust. You know, as you know, a bank lends out more than they have. That's the whole principle of how the industry works. And when everybody knocks up, rocks up at your door and they want their cash at the same time, the bank goes
Digital Banking Transformation
00:12:22
Speaker
bust. It is honestly as simple as that. That is what happened to Credit Suisse. And obviously in the age of social media where every
00:12:30
Speaker
Common gets exacerbated and taken to the power of 25 when influential individuals who are large shareholders of these banks say the wrong thing at the wrong time and then that just exacerbates the bank run and then you're cooked. But to the same extent that we're surprised that this should happen in Switzerland, I think we dealt with this in a very Swiss and pragmatic way.
00:12:56
Speaker
There's a bank run, it's pretty sweet. Okay, UBS, you're buying them. And that's just the end of it. And we will provide you with the necessary guarantees to do so. Please make sure it's done in 48 hours. And here in Switzerland, people have moved on. I mean, everyone's a client of either one or the other bank. Honestly speaking, nobody cares, you know? So, you know, bank went bust, got bought by a larger bank and onwards we march.
00:13:24
Speaker
So banking is alive and well in Switzerland, for sure. Yeah, I mean, look, banking is alive and well in Switzerland in that respect. I think, you know, my traditional industry of private banking has obviously been, you know, under different series of challenges. You have much more transparency now and much more requests for transparency from different governments and rightly so, you know, around the world. You have
00:13:52
Speaker
a lot of geopolitical tensions and pressures which didn't exist 20 years ago, with regards, you know, which types of clients you can or should be onboarding or shouldn't be onboarding. And so you have to manage a kind of geopolitical regulatory framework, which is much more complex and much more costly, and hence much less profitable than the industry was 20
AI and Cryptocurrency Skepticism
00:14:17
Speaker
years ago. So you've got to reinvent yourself, you've got to digital digitalize, you know, your processes, you've got to
00:14:22
Speaker
lighten your operational workflows. And that's just the price of adapting to a new industry standard. And the same way that other businesses and industries have been totally disrupted and gone bust, I think the traditional face of Swiss banking
00:14:41
Speaker
they don't, we'll face a very, very complicated ecosystem in the next decade. So I think there's a big struggle to invest and reinvent themselves. Let's see who succeeds and who doesn't. And technology and all of that, you mentioned you're going more and more into this direction. Yeah.
00:15:04
Speaker
How do you see it could become a tsunami at some point or traditional banks become a utility and then a lot of the profit moves to the new technology? I think that's probably going to happen. It hasn't happened at a massive scale yet. I mean, yes, you have some digital banks that have onboarded tens of millions of new clients, but the reality is that
00:15:34
Speaker
Most of those banks are still used just for summary purposes. Travel, you know, good forex rates, you get a card, multi-currency, but nobody's really using them as their primary financial institution yet, right? That's not where you go to get a mortgage. That's probably not where your salary gets paid into. And so, you know, there hasn't been mass scale disruption by digital players yet.
00:16:02
Speaker
But it's definitely going to happen. And so if you don't invest in technology, we've seen, obviously, businesses think that they're in position of leadership and then get totally disrupted. I think there is a little bit of a panic among incumbent banks. But they end up throwing huge amounts of money at trying to innovate, whereas neoplayers come with a fraction of those resources, and they're able to do something which is much lighter, better, cheaper,
00:16:31
Speaker
and more efficient. So yeah, I think you will see a whole host of these industries get disrupted and I agree with your take.
Sustainability in Banking
00:16:39
Speaker
We probably go back to banks as utilities with huge state backing for your consumer banking and day-to-day stuff, which the government doesn't want the average person to get impacted by bank runs and stuff like that. And then you'll have the sexier digital offerings for people that are willing to take on more risk
00:17:03
Speaker
And an investor you know other types of activities probably what you're going to end up with. And where do you see the world of well crypto blockchain AI.
00:17:16
Speaker
banks and central banks and digital currencies. I mean, look, AI, AI for sure, you know, in the wealth management space, you would be hard pressed to disagree that some version of chat GPT, whether it's four or five or six, and you know, they've already had some experiments will end up picking stocks way better than a human being. I mean, it's already
00:17:39
Speaker
That is going to happen. We know the monkey does it better than us. The monkey does it better than us. AI is going to do it better than the monkey. So we're going to be in a better place and probably cheaper, right? So yeah, for sure it's going to disrupt, you know, inevitably. So that's, you know, on the AI side as well in terms of your
00:18:00
Speaker
you know, your regulatory concerns and your know your client and your suitability assessments. I mean, it will be able to process amounts of information that human beings are just not capable of doing. And so I think, you know, that that is going to make banks better, cheaper for the end user, right? And the winners will be those who will have invested and deployed this technology in an appropriate and applicable manner.
00:18:29
Speaker
Crypto, yeah, I mean, that's a different one. I'm still not sure in the current state of things that it has any applicability whatsoever, quite frankly. Now, will we emerge from
00:18:47
Speaker
currency to some form of digital currency, 100% we will. It's just a natural evolution of currency. We used to barter and then we used to use precious metals and then currency came into effect and then it was coins and bills and all of that will disappear and it'll all be digitalized. So I think yes, what you say is correct.
Global Politics and Human Progress
00:19:06
Speaker
Some form of central bank
00:19:10
Speaker
backed digital currency. But does Bitcoin take over from the US dollar and the Swissi? No, I don't think so. All right. Well, I recently heard someone tell me that the craze with AI at the moment is in a way a replacement for the value destroyed in Silicon Valley. Replacement for what?
00:19:39
Speaker
the value destroyed by venture capital funds in Silicon Valley around tech. So yeah, let's see. Yeah, in terms of our creation, in any case, let's see. So good. All right. And now all of that
00:19:54
Speaker
you've been doing finance banking for 20 years and and finance is many things but it's stressful right so and you said the biggest challenge for you has been balancing the different important bits you know in your life so how do you how have you
00:20:17
Speaker
managed to deal with stress and taking care of health, we are all approaching some magical number there. Some are a bit below, some a bit above. How do you deal with that? How do you think about that? What do you do? Well, I think, you know, everyone finds their own equilibrium. I mean, for me, sports has always been a huge part of it, you know, in terms of finding some kind of chemical balance.
00:20:44
Speaker
Um, I think, I think there's a huge impact there, but in terms of kind of, if you, if you talk about stress as a, as a psychological, you know, side effect, I think it's important not to take yourself too seriously. Right. And, and, you know, we're not, we're not changing the world here. You said, you said it yourself pretty Swiss, you know, could disappear tomorrow. And, and, and, and as I tell, I told you, you know, people in Switzerland just got on with it.
00:21:11
Speaker
Thousands of people will lose their jobs, but nothing's really going to change. So you look at that and you're like, well, what value are you really adding or what effect are you really having on your end clients? If you were no longer around, is your job that essential that there is a crisis? And the answer is there isn't.
00:21:31
Speaker
People will find alternative ways and the world continues to turn. So I think if you don't take yourself so seriously and sometimes have a little reality check, I think it helps to deal with perceived stress. I try not to do stress.
00:21:48
Speaker
I love it. Only you can say this. I try not to do stress. All right. And since your entry mentions politics or political conflicts, give us encapsulate for us the world in three minutes. Seriously? Is that a real question?
00:22:11
Speaker
It's a real question. No, okay. I mean, the world is a mess. Here you go. I just encapsulated it. Is it that the world is in a mess or is it that human beings are messy creatures? Both. Yeah. Therefore, the world is in a mess. Thanks. Yes. But where are we headed? I mean, Switzerland having been
00:22:36
Speaker
neutral and in the most recent conflicts, expressing some stronger than neutrality views. The world is changing. Yeah, I think that is true. I think obviously, not to be cliche, but
00:22:55
Speaker
It is getting more polarized and at every level of society and in countries around the world exacerbated for sure by social media and the ability for people to communicate and exchange.
00:23:11
Speaker
And if you had to encapsulate what's going on in the world, I think it's polarization. People are extremely opinionated. You have the ability to gather large portions of the population for or against any given idea. You see it in the so-called bastion of democracy, the United States, which we all looked up to in the 80s and 90s, is very much a broken society, polarized between left and right.
00:23:38
Speaker
We see it in Europe on various other themes, questioning whether the union as such is really effective or sustainable. Then you see the Brits leaving. It's a polarized world, but at the end of the day, I think we're still in a much better place today than we were 200 years ago.
00:24:02
Speaker
where people were chopping off heads and there was much more violence per se and much lower quality of life, standard of living, much more poverty 200 years ago than there is today. Today, people are living longer, better, people are in general happier, healthier. And so I think that despite what the media could portray or what we may think that
00:24:32
Speaker
that the world is in a terrible place. We're also a generation that hasn't been through the hardship of a 39 or 45 type war, let alone a 14 to 18. And I think a little bit of a gilded golden generation that we tend to find issues
00:24:52
Speaker
where there probably aren't any and fail to have the perspective that, you know what, society today isn't that bad, honestly, compared to what humanity has been over centuries of existence. So, is it perfect?
INSEAD Friendships and Community Giving
00:25:07
Speaker
No. Are we in a dark, dark place with no outcome? No, I don't think so either.
00:25:13
Speaker
Well, you managed to see in less than three minutes. I like it. I like it. And I like positive outcome there. But which reminds me to ask you at the bank, are you seeing a shift or how are you seeing the push towards sustainability and finance as a playing a role in making certain things?
00:25:38
Speaker
more viable versus others? I think if I'm being totally honest, I think banks are going about it just because they have to. I think that 90% of what they say about sustainability is BS. And they're just trying to cater to
00:25:56
Speaker
you know, a wider audience that, you know, expects somehow, you know, banks to also be green and not fund fossil fuels and stuff. But I mean, those fossil fuels obviously are fueling everything that we do in our day to day life. So, you know, let's not get into the hypocrisy of that. It's, you know, banks are trying, you know, is the solution to sustainability in green environmental kind of, you know,
00:26:25
Speaker
ESG problem is going to come from banks, probably not quite frankly. I told you he'll be provocative. I like it. Yes. Well, you know, it's true, right? I mean, what, what is it going to change? I mean, you look at some of these ESG metrics, right? I mean, a funny one is, and you've got a lot of friends who, who work there and work there, a company like Philip Morris or Altra, I think, as it's known now, ranks higher.
00:26:54
Speaker
on the ESG MSCI index than Tesla. I mean, what the fuck is that about? Yep. There you go. Well, apparently they're all out of this company now.
00:27:09
Speaker
Oh, they are? Yes, apparently. Okay. Now we'll see a reunion. I love them all anyway. Hey, I'm a banker. So, you know, I'm not, I'm not criticizing anyone with their career choice. I'm just saying it's odd to see certain companies, you know, rank high in these indices. And it's just a reflection that, you know, if you're selling someone a green basket of stocks based on metrics that you don't really understand or agree with, you know, the debate is endless. Yeah. Yeah.
00:27:40
Speaker
There you go. All right. And with that, let's switch gears and talk INSEAD. You mentioned you've been in business with INSEAD people 10 years older or for us. And then any other INSEAD connections that have crossed your path other than catching up with friends every so often?
00:28:02
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, there have been. I mean, other obviously than the core group of friends that I've taken away from INSEAD, I have crossed countless number of kind of INSEAD grads, either people that have hired as well. And I have to say, when I do see an INSEAD MBA on a CV,
00:28:24
Speaker
it does get my interest. I mean, it's bias, I guess, you know, but you're like, okay, this person must be somehow cool. Or, you know, what kind of person is this individual? And so, especially here in Geneva, you do have a lot of people that have been, and it always amazes me that we've been gone for two decades. And so that's a lot of cohorts that have come and gone in the meantime. And in general, always, you know,
00:28:54
Speaker
super people, great conversations. And I've hired a lot over the years, actually. There you go. All right. And your profile entry said, always there when you meet him, he leaves no stone unturned. And I fully confirm. So see, your profile is very accurate, actually. Yeah, I don't know about that. Well, basically, every time I don't call Pashad, oops,
00:29:23
Speaker
I don't call him very often, but when I do and if I need it, he's there. And so I called him for a 10-year reunion as we were setting up the endowment. And of course, he was there. And now I called him again, I called him for the podcast, actually. And not because I want to share people who've given, I want them to share their stories in the hope to convince others.
00:29:49
Speaker
And I didn't even ask him for anything and he just was very point blank and said how much do you need and let me figure it out. So he always figures it out and thank you for making it so museum.
00:30:07
Speaker
You you did become a bronze salamander for a 10-year reunion and now you've pledged to Get yourself to gold. So thank you so very much for this. But tell me why do you give and why should others give? What's your answer?
00:30:27
Speaker
You know, I don't want to be in a position where, you know, you proselytize to others and on the necessity of giving. I think it's very personal, but I can share kind of why I believe it's important. And then, you know, I'm sure everyone gives, you know, in their own way, but and INSAAD isn't the only institution that I
00:30:48
Speaker
I'm involved with in terms of giving. It's the only educational institution, I'll say that much. I don't give to my undergraduate university, but that's for different reasons. I think INSEAD, if we talk about that, in life, the most valuable thing that you could possibly have are friendships, right? And INSEAD has undoubtedly given me
00:31:15
Speaker
extremely precious friendships of people that are like-minded, generous, extremely intelligent, and towards whom I've been able to turn for advice, for real kind of genuine conversation and friendship over the years. It's incalculable
00:31:45
Speaker
in terms of value of what this brings you over a lifetime, to have this core group of individuals that they will recognize themselves and they know who they are, those who I've kept in touch with more often than others. But for me, the gift that INSEAD gives someone is really very much focused on that.
00:32:14
Speaker
We are privileged, right? Obviously, some people come from more kind of, how would I say, easier backgrounds than others. But at the end of the day, I think we're all extremely privileged. Some of us have been financially more successful than others over the years.
00:32:36
Speaker
that which is not a measure of success by any way. But I think if you have been lucky, because at the end of the day, it's luck, you have been lucky to, you know, make a little bit more than the average, then, you know, it is important to to not consider yourself as an island and kind of
00:32:57
Speaker
try to give back to causes or to institutions that will enable other people to also get lucky.
Reflections on Success and Happiness
00:33:04
Speaker
And then it magnifies. If you can allow someone the opportunity to get an inside education to meet people, what do you know? Maybe that's the person that goes on to
00:33:17
Speaker
to be the CEO of the next biotech company that solves the next virus or whatever it is. So I think giving back is for me motivated principally by that, by first realization of the
00:33:36
Speaker
good fortune that I've had in my life and the importance of sharing that with others. I think it's very difficult to be successful, not attribute that to a certain element of luck and decide that you're not going to give back. That's a mindset which I have a very hard time understanding. Yeah, there you go. Well, thank you again.
00:34:03
Speaker
because you make my life easier. I'll have more time to party at the gala. All right. With this, we move to the quick round of questions. You said you haven't prepared, so let's see how quick you are. Proudest achievement. Two generous kids. Success for you is?
00:34:25
Speaker
I think having raised two decent human beings who hopefully will go on to have a much larger impact than I have. Happiness is? It's a state of mind. I'm a bit of a stoic, so we don't do regrets, but learnings. There are too many learnings, I think, to list them here. What keeps you awake at night? My kids' health. They're all right. Wish you had known, some I have told you. Don't go into banking.
00:34:57
Speaker
Some get up and... Yeah, blocked in. Too late for that. Yeah, well, see, therefore, when I got downsized, I was like, okay, thank you very much. But yeah, it's tough if someone doesn't force your hand in banking. That's true. If you had to do it all over again, what would you change? Probably study psychology. Okay. Retirement, ever or never?
00:35:26
Speaker
definitely ever but you know I have a whole bunch of other stuff that I want to do so it won't be retirement per se but retirement from banking yeah that's that's that's coming up all right all right keep us posted yes you've promised to come visit I will
00:35:43
Speaker
I should tell you, now I understand.
Invitation to INSEAD Reunion
00:35:46
Speaker
So I was showing Pasha again. I was showing him my hometown and then he's writing. He said, yeah, we are going to come. I saw there's an airport. I'm like, what? Are you flying your own plane? Because this airport is not commercial. Now I understand. Anyhow, divergence. If you have to pick one book, everyone should read. Crime and punishment, Dostoevsky. Most admired public person.
00:36:13
Speaker
Most admired public person like politician, I would have to say Angela Merkel because she's no nonsense and she got it done for 15 years. Very impressive. Most despised public person. That would have to be the orange narcissistic psychopath because he embodies everything that I despise.
00:36:36
Speaker
Yeah, there you go. To not name him. He's getting quite a few votes in this forum, I must say. Is he? Yeah. Has anyone else described him as such? Orange, yes. Okay, and the last one. Are you coming to Reunion? I can't hear you, wait, it's cutting. It's cutting.
00:37:01
Speaker
There you go. You got it. You cannot hear me. So let's see if it's going to show up at Reunion. It's October 6th. I shall have you be reminded in Fontainebleau. So it's a dry easy drive from Geneva, right? Yeah. And I can finally, I already... I can hear you again. Okay, great. I know. Yeah, I know. There you go.
00:37:23
Speaker
I can finally say this was a conversation with Pasha Bakhtiar, partner at Real and Isie in Geneva, Switzerland. And thank you very much for your time. And I do hope you change your mind or make your mind up finally and do join us in fronting for a day or two or five. Thanks a lot, Milana. We'll have to go down to Samoa and relive our own memories. You know what? It's unrecognizable. I don't know when you went there for the last time, but it's unrecognizable. Twenty years ago.
00:37:52
Speaker
Oh well, yeah, see? Yeah, there you go. Time to write. You were listening to the Republic of Insead 20 years later or 3D podcast edition. It is my hope to remind everyone what an interesting and dare I say colorful bunch of people we are and how much we can contribute to each other, be it through ideas, knowledge or mere inspiration. The podcast is inspired by the original Republic of Insead yearbook
00:38:20
Speaker
Produced on paper 20 years ago by Oliver Bradley and team. Thank you all and team for this contribution to our classes memory and for letting me continue in the tradition title and inspiration included. Creator and author of the Republic of India, 20 years later, all three deep podcast edition. Am I Milena Ivanova original music by Peter Dondakoff would help from their films productions.
00:38:44
Speaker
Stay tuned for more and remember to book your tickets for the 20-year reunion in Fontainebleau October 6th, 8th, 2023. Thank you for listening.