Welcome to Nazaré, Portugal.

A small fishing town north of Lisbon that has become the Colosseum of big wave surfing.

Waves at Praia do Norte are so big and powerful that professional athletes from around the world travel here every winter to test themselves against the Atlantic.

What fascinated me when I first heard my guest talk about this world…is that big-wave surfing is not really about surfing.

It is about teamwork.

It is about decision-making under extreme pressure.

It is about risk management.

It is about preparation.

And strangely enough… many of the lessons from Nazaré apply just as well in business.

HURRY! Last hours to get your name in for the raffle and have the change to win the PRICELESS Nazare experience with Francisco and Red Herrings in Nazare!

If 100 members of the alumni community make a gift to the Partners Scholarship during Giving Day, Jeff Clay will pledge $100,000 of his own to help secure the future of the scholarship and honour Denise’s memory.

The MBA Partners Scholarship in memory of Denise Kaplan is a beautiful way not only to honor the memory of Denise, but to also help extend the legacy of our class, while showing our support for Mike.

As a reminder, we also have an anonymous donor who will match the first 80k euro.

Giving Day runs from the 19th to the 26th of March 2026 and offers a simple opportunity for us to come together once again. While larger gifts are always impactful, what matters most is that we take part together as a community. We truly hope 100 of us will come together, so we get Jeff to spend every last cent of his check!

To make a gift to The MBA Partners Scholarship in memory of Denise Kaplan follow the link: https://www.insead.edu/alumni/classes/mba-partners-scholarship

Together we are stronger.

Allan Savory: How to fight desertification and reverse climate change [https://www.ted.com/talks/allan_savory_how_to_fight_desertification_and_reverse_climate_change]

E31: Nazaré: “No fear, no limits!”

Here are partial lyrics of Hey Jude by The Beatles. You figure out whether there are any parallels out there with our “Hey Jeff”

Hey Jude, don't make it bad.
Take a sad song and make it better.
Remember to let her into your heart,
Then you can start to make it better.

Hey Jude, don't be afraid.
You were made to go out and get her.
The minute you let her under your skin,
Then you begin to make it better.

And anytime you feel the pain, hey Jude, refrain,
Don't carry the world upon your shoulders.
For well you know that it's a fool who plays it cool
By making his world a little colder.

Na na na nananana, nannana, hey Jude...

In recognition of the importance of The MBA Partners Scholarship in memory of Denise Kaplan initiative, Jeff Clay together with his wife Laurie have laid down a Giving Day challenge for the whole INSEAD community, and one in which it would be wonderful for us the 03D community to play a leading role.

If 100 members of the alumni community make a gift to the Partners Scholarship during Giving Day, Jeff will pledge $100,000 of his own to help secure the future of the scholarship and honour Denise’s memory.

If you like that logic and our approach, do join us!

In other words – WE ARE LOOKING FOR 100 PEOPLE IN OUR COMMUNITY TO JOIN, SO HELP US GET THERE!

The MBA Partners Scholarship in memory of Denise Kaplan is a beautiful way not only to honor the memory of Denise, but to also help extend the legacy of our class, while showing our support for Mike.

As a reminder, we also have an anonymous donor who will match the first 80k euro.

Giving Day runs from the 19th to the 26th of March 2026 and offers a simple opportunity for us to come together once again. While larger gifts are always impactful, what matters most is that we take part together as a community. We truly hope 100 of us will come together, so we get Jeff to spend every last cent of his check!

To make a gift to The MBA Partners Scholarship in memory of Denise Kaplan follow the link: https://www.insead.edu/alumni/classes/mba-partners-scholarship

Together we are stronger.

Hey Jeff…. Or in other words: “100 subject to 100!”

When Pierre Lusato wrote in our group chat “Milena, we want the podcast back!” I almost instantly received a private message from someone else, who practically said “I am ready to talk.” And so here we are. Ready to talk.

I have been hoping to have this conversation for a while now, but did not know if he will ever want to have this conversation with me (or anyone else for that matter). As he said at the end of our preliminary chat “Time happens” and so here we are – about to have this conversation in all its beauty and love, all its pain, loss and sorrow and all its hope, luck and gratefulness.

A warning in the beginning – this conversation will touch raw nerves and emotions buried deep down inside many of us. It will surely make more than one of us cry and is not to be taken lightly. Ultimately though, I believe that it will not only provoke many of us into thinking, but will also bring the best out of many of us, mobilise us for action and ultimately bring us yet again closer together. Do listen to the end, to find out all about light at the end of a tunnel.

And so – let’s go...

To make a gift to The MBA Partners Scholarship in memory of Denise Kaplan follow the link: https://www.insead.edu/alumni/classes/mba-partners-scholarship

Together we are stronger.

E29: "Time happens"

“If you want to help a community, then by far educations is the best way to do it. I don't know if it matters so much what you teach, but as long as kids get excited about learning and get excited about going to school, that makes a huge difference.”

“Just by talking about it and it inspires other people to do something similar in their communities, you just never know what kind of ripples you're going to create, right?”

“Once you don't think so much about yourself and once you don't think about what you're getting out of it, especially maybe financially, and you just do something for other people, then a lot of things just become maybe a little bit clearer in terms of what needs to get done.”

“I didn't know what I was expecting, but for some reason I was a little bit surprised that those kids are just the same and they just happened to have been born somewhere else. If you look at people on TV you don't always realize how similar we all are, really.”

“I have this amount that I'm quite happy to give anyone who has a worthy cause. For me, it's more like a message to the people who are asking to say “Look, I support you, I'm behind you in this and I'm with you.” So I hope that many people will be with you because it's a great cause.”

“Music is a strange animal 'cause you can't touch it, you can't smell it, you can't eat it or anything else, and it's just there. Beethoven's Fifth just keeps coming back at you for 300 years, and that's very, very powerful, spiritual energy.” [Quincy Jones]

“The collective power of artists can be very impacting. If we all put our egos aside in the service of people in the world who are less fortunate. We're truly all one people. We are all in need of each other.” [Harry Belafonte]

“I think every individual in the world wants to contribute, and they don't know how. I got a feeling that we're creating a shift in what's going on in the world today, about helping other people. It's compassion. It's real new.” [Diana Ross]

“The ripple effect that "We Are the World" had was that everyone wanted to try and do it. And artists suddenly realized that they could now make a change in the world. It's one of those things that kids who haven't even been born yet will know about because it was a unity through music.” [Steven Ivory, Music journalist]

“We believe that artists have a valuable function in any society, since it is the artists who reveal the society to itself.” [Harry Belafonte]

“"We Are the World" was something that everybody could understand. Even if you didn't speak English, you could understand the melody. You could understand the feeling of the song musically.”[Steven Ivory, Music journalist]

Rondalla ensemble includes: guitar, bass, octavina, laud, banduria played together.

Ukulele

03D Gift page (for INSEAD Giving Day 2024 and beyond)

To make your donation just click here [https://forceforgood.insead.edu/class-giving/mba03d-endowed-scholarship] for the MBA'03D Diversity Scholarship [https://forceforgood.insead.edu/class-giving/mba03d-endowed-scholarship].

https://forceforgood.insead.edu/class-giving/mba03d-endowed-scholarship

"Let's Play" fund raising page

https://give.asia/campaign/support-music-education-for-children-in-philippines#/

“Let’s Play” on Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/lets.play.malabon.ph?mibextid=ZbWKwL

Instagram: letsplayasia











E28: “Let’s Play” - you just never know what kind of ripples you're going to create

Top recommendations for Dean Veloso from the ‘03Ds:

“Just make sure that your education is raising the bar on future management, not only in terms of technical knowledge, but in terms of values.”

“The university has a great asset, it's the Alumni Network - invest more and with the expectation to get more out of it.”

“Keep up the education of your alumni and give them the opportunity to get back together, because at the level of the class is where you have the strongest bonds.”

Our 20Y reunion in a nutshell: Excitement, fun, connections.

“It's the life in your years that counts, even more than that it is the people in your life. To me INSEAD has brought a lot of important people and reunion was all about meeting the ones that we see often, the ones that we see less often and finding that old energy is still there, which is amazing.” Sofia Marimba

“When I think about the 4 reunions we've had - all of them a lot of fun. The 5 year was very much around what job have you got, what have you achieved in that period work-wise, where are you in your career. 10 years was a bit more like what's your family situation, have you had 5 kids yet, that kind of thing. 15 in Singapore was just a bit insane, people just wanted to be students again and largely behaved like that. This time, lots and lots of fun, but I found people in more reflective mood. I had more conversations about looking around what the next phase of life might look like.” Sophie Kent

“It was exciting to get back together with people and realize how much I enjoyed their company and being around them.” Jeff Clay

“The mood was different - there was no competitiveness anymore for sure, there was a lot more looking for cooperation.” Milena Ivanova

Favorite moments: the things that bind us together

“Life can be as fun as you make it up as long as you're blessed with health.”

“The feeling of the first hug that you give to people that you have not seen in a long time, this physical connection, the smiles and the happiness of just seeing again face-to- face people that you have not seen in a while.” Sofia Marimba

The fact that we can all get back into the Chateau and dance together in the way that we always did, that's definitely the first image that comes to mind.

I loved seeing the much older vintages also dancing with us and I was like “Okay, that's a message of hope for the future.”

“Fun and joy absolutely have no age. I actually took videos of our older colleagues on the dance floor jumping and dancing like they were teenagers and I basically shared those videos with friends back home and I said this is how I want to grow old.“ Sofia Marimba

“Just being on the lawn and having a beer right outside there was reminiscent of those conversations that you had that were kind of impromptu and ended up going for hours.” Jeff Clay

“Team work makes dream work and I think our class is best practice in that sense”

E27: "Okay, that's a message of hope for the future."

For me there were two options. I can be very rich and lonely 10 years down the line, or I had to change something so that I'm happy and I'm not lonely and I'm with someone that I enjoy being with.

20 YEARS IN PERSPECTIVE:

I changed absolutely everything. So I was in the recruitment industry in Poland before INSEAD, and then I ended up in investment banking in Austria. The only thing I didn't change was the market, because my entire life, the theme has been emerging markets.

I spent two and a half years in Vienna doing corporate finance, and then love called, and so in 2006 I moved to London. In 2008 I got a call from a head-hunter who was chasing me for a job in Kazakhstan and in April 2008 I moved to Almaty, Kazakhstan and then I moved to Russia in 2011. The end of 2012 I got downsized, it was the best thing that happened to me, because I needed to exit Moscow, I needed to exit finance.

At the time I was also going through a divorce, which was “amazing”, it was a major shock to the system, took me a number of years to get over it, not in terms of the relationship, but in terms of the failure, I treated it for the longest time as something I failed at.

So what I did is I bought a ticket around the world and took off for six months, the end of this was our reunion in Fonty in 2013.

Where I am today is I serve on boards, I have my own small business in aroma therapy, which is a direct to consumer model, I help with my family's business, which means these days I've [also] opened a hotel. And then I do a lot of pro bono work.

I got a guy who landed on my balcony in London, and so we have a seven year old son now, and I'm mostly spending time in Bulgaria.

On topic: a woman in finance, overcoming adversity and life in general

For a woman to decide that she doesn't like where she is and to move on is a fact of life. I did not like entering a boardroom with 22 men and two women on a regular basis. I did not like eating lunch in the MD lunchroom where I was the only woman and the guys had to talk with me out of politeness. But what they can talk to me about was Sponge Bob, they didn't know what to talk about.

The biggest challenge was solving my personal life because I was 36 and getting divorced. I thought I'm 36 and starting a family, and then one day I'm 36 and getting divorced. So I went through the fear of would I be alone, I went through the fear of would I have children…

There are three things in life that ruin you - one is divorce, one is losing your job, and I forget was the third one, and then you die. So I had two of those at the same time. So you are pushed. You are pushed, and this is when either you grow either or you go back to your old self, but going back to your old self, it's going to come back to bite.

After the rain comes the rainbow, in the darkest hour, I need someone to just remind me, that.

On all things INSEAD and giving back

Why I do it, I will revert to what a lot of people in these episodes have mentioned, the word impact. And it's having an impact and working for something that's bigger than oneself.

Without education, society goes down the drain. And sometimes people tell me, “Yes, but MBA is a luxury good.” And I'm like, “But you need leaders, as well.” And it's not leaders in the arrogant sense, but it's people who have the courage, people who are willing to be honest. So, if you want to change things, we need education at all levels.

I keep on saying thank goodness for my healthy sense of self-confidence because otherwise some of the things people have done are like, Jesus…

You've also seen them dance without their shirts on, so that's a great equalizer.

And finally… “You had your eat, pray, love moment.” “I totally did. I won't be shy about it. I was very, very lucky.”

Running your own business is like a marathon at the speed of a sprint

Your mental health is under constant stress, what I realized early on is it's a very lonely space to do it, because there are very few people who do this.

Quite frankly, you're dealing with more failures than successes than from the outside people see.

I still remember sitting on my balcony with helicopters flying by, with soldiers and machine guns roads were blocked. You know buildings boarded up or you know it was, it was absolutely intense.

20 YEARS IN PERSPECTIVE:

We built the number one vitamin water brand in the UK and Ireland, it was bought by Pepsi several years later.

I worked for Pepsi for 3 -4 years in the UK and then we had this second big adventure together with the same wonderful business partner where we moved to Los Angeles.

I had immediately another and entrepreneurial bug, so I started the first low-cost gym chain in the UK, but I quickly realized how difficult it is to start a company when you don't have a business partner as incredibly fun and smart and nice to work with. So I decided to let that go.

And eleven years later we're still here thriving and building the business. We just increased our distribution footprint with a massive deal in Target which is super exciting.

On topic: vitamins, supplements, the supplements market opportunity in the US

We realized very quickly that the vitamin market was huge in America, yet it was extremely outdated, so this was ripe for disruption, which is why we settled here in LA, which is considered the centre of health and wellness. This is where the trends start they show up first on TV programs, or in movies and then they spread across the world.

It's not a multivitamin that will fix your unhealthy diet, right? The basis has to be right, you should eat your vegetables, your fruit, ideally you got your fiber, etc., that is really an ideal foundation. And then I would recommend to supplement or, as we say, complement with those micronutrients that are hard to come by with a regular diet.

Here in the United States there's a real shrinking of the gut microbiome, because the diets are not very well-balanced.

As you age your digestive enzymes deplete actually and this helps you break down the foods and foods have become more and more complicated, especially processed foods.

On topic: start-ups, entrepreneurial endeavors, INSEAD business partners

If you think about that, we have spent at this point 5,000 days together, which is a long time.

It's a very special relationship to have a business partner for many, many years. They know your real working life from a very unique perspective. It's not the same as having a report or having a boss is not the same as having a life partner, it is different.

When you start something you can develop a bit of luck and you develop opportunities and things that you wouldn't have known were going to start when you began the business

All things INSEAD and giving back

I honestly think that we have profited from the INSEAD connections almost more than anybody else.

We raised our seed money largely through INSEAD alums to get the V-water business off the off the ground.

So a lot of our seed investors were INSEAD, 2 of our board members of V-water were also INSEAD. Several of our INSEAD original investors have continued to support us with the HUM nutrition business in Los Angeles.



Keep humming.... “You're walking on this rope with a river full of alligators below you, and you're doing a dance basically”

“And remember, it’s not a judgement of your performance, it’s just we don’t need this position anymore.”

After selling the chain of clinics business twice, I got fired from day 1 to day 2 with the typical capitalist view, you put your things in a box and leave the premises in 2 hours type of thing. This put me in a very difficult position of trying to redefine myself as a business person, so I took a step back.

20 YEARS IN PERSPECTIVE:

5 years ago I joined one of my most recent investments, because I felt it has the potential to become something big. I raised about 120 mn in financing for our firm and it’s going well, fingers crossed.

You need a very tall building or a very slow elevator for this [elevator pitch]

I went into pharma, initially in Austria and then Switzerland. And Switzerland was so boring, I needed to go back home.

Joined a chain of clinics in Romania, sold the business to PE twice, made a little bit of money from ESOP. So this turned out very well and I had a little bit of money. So I decided why invest it prudently in real estate and stuff, when I can invest it similarly in small companies that will grow big.

I have the same 2 kids and the same wife I had at INSEAD, so that’s quite a success.

Nowadays I am teaching strategy, entrepreneurial growth to MBA students, I am teaching a fintech course as well.

On topic: Fintech, start-ups, fund raising, entrepreneurial endeavours

B2C, crypto, blockchain which are not in very good shape, and then the more traditional SaaS, B2B – the only thing that has changed is the multiple you get in the valuation. It just takes a little bit of time to adjust to the current reality.

Everything is pending on the bigger markets resuming tech IPOs for fast growing, loss making companies.

The base scenario is that we will be able to converge to breakeven with the money that we have and we would do it by the end of 2024. We’ve moved from 80% growth with significant loss, to 50% growth with very clear convergence to B/E.

We need to grow 5 to 10x more to even be considered for an IPO.

I don’t think it’s difficult frankly [being an entrepreneur] – it is so much fun.

The younger students and graduates are much smarter than we were and I think they’ve realised that our prudent way of joining a company is just a path to some sort of plateau, that is kind of convenient, but is just that.

My advise to everyone is not to get trapped in some sort of cosy job that pays the money and gives you no more thrills. We could build things that are meaningful. And every time I failed, it proved to be a kick in the butt that makes you leap forward. So don’t worry that much about the potential failures in the process, it is more about enjoying the opportunity to build something that is going to impact people in some way.

Our security net is pretty high and is given by what we know and how the CV looks like, and how employable you are if eventually the sh*t hits the fan. And you can aways jump in a secure job, maybe slightly less attractive that the one you would optimise for if that was your target.

All THINGS INSEAD AND GIVING BACK

INSEAD – kind of detached me from the imposter syndrome.

INSEAD brainwashed me in a very efficient manner, a person [me] came out that was willing to do things that are new and different and trusting himself a lot more.

“Vanity, definitely my favorite sin”

I'm sure when we started our first business together we were like “God, this is the learning one and we're just gonna smash it all the way through the rest of them”. Unfortunately hasn't quite turned out that way, it continues to be a learning experience. Turns out, there's new sh*t to learn every time.

20 YEARS IN PERSPECTIVE:

The journey is the destination.

If you ask me where I thought I'd be 20 years after INSEAD I think I've definitely, largely because of my wife, who I met at INSEAD and my business partner, who I also met at INSEAD, I am in a 10x better space than I could see, so I'm pretty happy.

So we built a great business plan, we ended up actually acquiring a series of money transfer businesses, about 11 businesses over about 7 years and built what was a pretty substantial – 4th/5th biggest remittance company in the world.

Built another business and actually just sold that business last year to a large Israeli tech company called Papaya global, which is a phenomenal outcome, actually a great deal.

We had some crazy ideas on the list, but possibly 1 of the stupidest was starting a bank.

These days one of us got a couple of businesses on the go and I'm obviously a shareholder in those and we are on the board together. I'm doing a bit of VC investing for a couple of funds actually and then we do lots of angel investing.

ON TOPIC: Start-ups, exits, entrepreneurship, partnership

I remember being worried that we might be on the front page of the FT for the first time for all the wrong reasons, having taken a regulated financial services business bust, because of the sort of leverage that we put in.

The best thing that's happened in the last 30 years is it's become okay to be an entrepreneur.

I knew when he threw the entire telephone at me, it smashed through a 32nd story New York window and went out in the pavement that maybe this was not going to be the perfectly peaceful business relationship that I'd once hoped for.

One thing the three of us all had in common, we all promoted club nights at university which is very much an entrepreneurial venture.

I just never really fitted in traditional jobs. I didn't get on with them, they sort of felt a bit either I felt I wasn't very good at them or I felt very shackled in working for someone else.

It was a good way of learning what not to do, wasn't it? We took on probably too much debt, one week we were having dinner in the CEO’s office at Barclays and they'd written us a big senior debt line and then the financial crisis came and they sort of took us into the basement and beat the living crap out of us because we'd breached the covenants.

Actually, when you hit the liquidity moment and either the company's no longer yours or the money lands in the bank account or you sign the docs, whatever it happens to be, that moment is very fleeting and actually what sticks with you is the good times and the bad times that you've had over the years. 

Winning wasn't measured just by the money, or the fame, or the other stuff, but actually by having a great set of friends, enjoying good times with them and having really quality relationships in your life.

All THINGS INSEAD AND GIVING BACK

INSEAD gave me my business partner, gave my wife and gave me all the talent that has made me successful. I'm British, particularly Scottish and this still feels a bit distasteful to be this enthusiastic about something, but yeah, it's definitely been a great thing for me INSEAD.



"Business appears to be 20 smacks in the face and 1 little tickle."

s sana in corpore sano - it's been a great awakening, a scary awakening but now I'm in a good place.

With a corporate job and globe trotting, moving international, living life as we would have dreamt of at INSEAD, you also need to have certain discipline which I did not have. When I just moved to Bangkok in 2019, I was basically living between Paris and Bangkok for close to eight months and then traveling in different geographies. This took a toll where I was living out of a suitcase for eight months, eating, drinking whatever I could get, sleeping whenever I could, working my ass off. I think it reached a point where my body at a certain point said “Okay, enough”. That evening I got to sleep, I woke up in the middle of the night, I can't get out of bed, I can't move. That scared the hell out of me and forced me to do something.

20 YEARS IN PERSPECTIVE:

Professionally, I'm still on the journey to find exactly what I want to do.

I've been automotive throughout, 2 big groups, 4 different brands, Fiat, Alpha Romeo, Maserati and now in Nisan.

On the personal side, beautiful family, two kids, 5 cities, close to 11 apartments and potentially contemplating a new one.

I might be the most healthy over the last fifteen years at this point in time

Would have been nice If somebody had told me how much patience you need to work in Asia before I started the role here.

ON TOPIC: Data driven marketing, dynamic creative in automotive

When it comes to cars, [buying one] is the most irrational thing a person can do. You work your ass off to make some money and then the day you say “Okay, I want this car”, you sign a check, the day you sign the check it's not even dry, 30% of the value is gone, it's the only asset that depreciates.

We’re talking about [a purchase] in tens to hundred plus thousands of euros per car, so the minimum you would expect is to have a great customer journey, but it's shite.

Data driven marking - in automotive we were lagging compared to the rest of industries, especially when it comes to cars. It's a huge ticket item in terms of spend, people leave a lot of data points. We spend billions on creating the website and the only thing we do is use that as a showcase.

ON TOPIC: The Automotive industry, disruption, data driven marketing, Tesla, electric vehicles, Formula 1 and more

86 million people buy a new car every year.

Automotive is at a crossroad, a lot of changes happening, but what you will generally hear is, for some time we've be talking about this is the CASE - which is Connected, Autonomous, Shared and Electric.

The main thing now is the growth of China. This year is the first year when China is forecasted to overtake Japan in terms of CBU exports and most of that is electric.

Europe is moving to electrified and the Chinese are coming in at a different price point, so there could be big changes in the brands that we see on European roads in a short space of time.

Is Germany in trouble? Yeah, I don't know if it's in trouble or not, it's too hard to say but the domestic China sales used to be a big driver for all the brands in Germany. Domestic China sales are taking a toll, because the Chinese are really coming up, especially with electric.

What [Tesla] did good was throwing away all conventional ways of looking at things. It potentially could be 1 of the most vertically integrated companies, so it's much easier for them to grab the better, the bigger part of profit, or manage the cost.

All THINGS INSEAD AND GIVING BACK

INSEAD has been the first point of contact in any country I've tried to have landed at.

“My job is to make sure that when you wake up in the morning and decide to spend some money, you'll like spend it on me.”

The 20 Years Later MBA'03D podcast edition

Welcome to the Republic of Insead podcast edition and enjoy the show.

So here we are – 20 years later, hopefully all the wiser, naturally smarter and as charming as ever. There were 432 of us in the 03’D vintage and certainly there are 432 unique and very interesting personal and professional stories to tell. While I cannot physically cover all, I have tried to make a selection of stories, that will keep you interested and curious and will hopefully convince you to join us on campus for reunion.

The show is here to remind everyone what an interesting and dare we say, colorful, bunch of people we are and how much we can contribute to each other, be it through ideas, knowledge or mere inspiration. The podcast is inspired by the original Republic of INSEAD yearbook, produced on paper 20 years ago by Oliver Bradley and team.

Remember to book your tickets for the 20Y reunion in Fontainebleau, October 6-8 2023.

Thank you for listening.

Milena Ivanova

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