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00:00:00
00:00:01
The fact that you can change the shape of the curve of life, like really bend the curve of life is amazing.
162 Plays1 year ago
You're basically creating miracles that fit in the palm of your hand and you're helping reimagine life for patients.
20 YEARS IN PERSPECTIVE:
Givers are not good takers.
I don't think of the 2000s as twenty years ago, I still think of the 80s, or the 70s as twenty years ago.
I started in Singapore, then went back to the US and lived and worked in New Jersey and Chicago, then Munich, London and back in the US. I was fortunate enough to have those opportunities with the same company, so I have actually been with one company since I left INSEAD.
The biggest challenge is, I'll call it kind of “recognizing my own power” and what I can contribute versus being told or accepting my situation. I think the biggest challenge for a lot of women in leadership, from a career standpoint, is stretching without hesitation for those bigger roles.
For the last several years I've made mentoring both within the company, as well as outside the company a priority for me.
Being able to talk about yourself is something that I'm not comfortable doing, but I've had to do it, so I've learned to do it.
Carving out a half a day or even an hour to go do something that I want to do, it doesn't come easily, it does not come easily at all.
ON TOPIC: Pharma, healthcare, lifespan, longevity
My biggest frustration with how the industry is viewed is the cost of drugs in the overall healthcare system is maybe 10% of the total cost of health care. Yet, where we try to push for savings is on the cost of drugs, which doesn't fundamentally solve the problem of access to care and cost of care.
The frustration is, we're not picking the right battles to fight to change the health care system model. But that doesn't change the fact that what we do every day as an industry is work on products that hopefully just provide more for patients.
The process that works is, in the early stages of development you pick certain disease areas that you feel like have a strong unmet need and you try to find targets to battle that disease.
What we're seeing now in the industry, which is different from before is, the FDA is much more open to looking at real-world evidence and shorter-term studies to give access to products for patients compared to before.
So even the regulatory pathways are trying to allow for faster innovation than what we had before.
It is a very competitive industry, even in spaces like oncology, because 10 - 15 years ago you might have had 1 option, now you have multiple options, which is great for the patient, because now you can have your choice of products whether it's better side effect profile, even potentially better efficacy, and companies will continue to invest in it.
Luckily in developed countries you do see an increase in lifespan, but you still have a lack of access to care in a lot of, whether it's sub-Saharan Africa, even India.
What I'm hopeful for is that we will have more longevity. What I'm worried about is that we don't appreciate that and we don't take advantage of that extra time that we will hopefully all have right and about what we're going to do with that time.
I'd rather see us be able to enjoy that extra time rather than just continue to work our asses off during that time.
ON TOPIC: corporate life, cultural differences
“Do not schedule a meeting during lunchtime, because nobody will come to your meeting and they will be pissed off at you.”
All THINGS INSEAD AND GIVING BACK
Milena: So you're not buying an Amphi.
Guest: I'm not buying an Amphi, no.
I feel like I'm doing some small part to ensure that the future is more positive for some of those individuals.
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Transcript
Introduction to Republic of Insead Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
This is Republic of Insead, the 20 years later O3D podcast edition. I am Milena Ivanova and will be your host in this limited series. So, here we are, 20 years later, hopefully all the wiser, naturally smarter and as charming as ever. There were 432 of us in the O3D vintage.
00:00:25
Speaker
And certainly there are 432 unique and very interesting personal and professional stories to tell. While I cannot physically cover all, I have tried to make a selection of stories that will keep you interested and curious and will hopefully convince you to join us on campus for reunion.
Transformation Journey: Quiet to Socialite
00:00:44
Speaker
Welcome to the Republic of Insead Podcast Edition and enjoy the show.
00:00:49
Speaker
Hello, hello! Forest recording today for me, so I'm on a marathon, but I have a lady in the room. She is pure style and sophistication. A connoisseur of the finest foods and wines, a regular at the best restaurants, a night out with her is everything you're looking for.
00:01:11
Speaker
Insead has done some of its best work on her, letting her blossom from a quiet, responsible individual into a travel queen and all-out party animal. Though the youngest in the promotion, she is one of the most reliable and trustworthy people we know.
00:01:30
Speaker
She was a selfless dedication to making the MBA experience the best possible for herself and others, be it as part of the BDE, organizing Welcome Week, or divvying up restaurant bills. She has a constant smile, calm demeanor, and seemingly limitless energy, the only 30-hour die-hard to make it through without sleep or Red Bull. Wow.
00:01:55
Speaker
Always there for others when needed. She's a true friend and a pleasure to know and quotations Welcome to the Republic of inside podcast. I must say I just learned a few things about you We know each other quite well, and we do travel together, but I met you only after inside and I didn't realize you were the youngest.
Global Living Experience
00:02:18
Speaker
I knew you're younger than me. That's a bit I didn't say that but welcome welcome so I
00:02:24
Speaker
Where do we start, the beginning or the end? The last 20 years in your life, everything you want to share with us and where you are today. Sure. So thank you for having me. So the last 20 years have taken me across three different continents, which is not unusual for in theaters. I started in Singapore because I was an alum on the Singapore campus. And then I actually went back to the US and lived and worked in New Jersey, in Chicago.
00:02:55
Speaker
and then went to Munich, London, and then have been back in the US for a few years now. And I was fortunate enough to have those opportunities with the same company.
Career Consistency and Connections
00:03:03
Speaker
So I have actually been with one company since I left NCA, which I think is unusual as well. Personally, I've been blessed with a very close and immediate family. So with all the places I've lived, I've always made a priority to get home to my parents and spend time with my sister. Those close friends who know me know how important that is for me
00:03:22
Speaker
My INSEAD family, though, has been a constant in my life with probably 2022 being the only year that I have not seen folks from this very small core group of people who in the last 20 years, if you can imagine, most of us have seen each other every year. I enjoy my work. It's challenging and always learning. But the constant challenge is actually making sure that I'm living in the present, which I think as you get older,
00:03:48
Speaker
you hopefully get a little wiser in the process and that's become more and more important for me in the last probably five years or so. So you find me now back in New Jersey with the same company but still not feeling like it's been 20 years for sure. I don't think of the 2000s as 20 years ago, I still think of the 80s or the 70s as 20 years ago.
00:04:16
Speaker
Yeah, well, what do I say? So I have visited you in, I didn't know you when you were in Singapore. So in fact, how we met one of these interesting things is that at one of our friend's weddings. Well, the one that shall not be named.
00:04:34
Speaker
There were some good things that came out this way, this friendship and with Astrid and with Zukia as well. So, and then I visited you in London. I stayed with you in London when I was homeless and you've hooked on multiple occasions. So now I make all the connections and Munich as well as Jersey.
00:04:55
Speaker
And travel. So yeah.
Women in Leadership and Mentoring
00:04:57
Speaker
And yeah, so there you go. For your road trip with your mom. Yeah. Oh my God. And this yellow convertible, whatever. I forgot what car they gave us. And we were all meeting at the airport, right? And I had there was no space for your suitcase. Exactly. They gave us a Camaro or whatever. It was yellow convertible. Yeah. So fun, fun. There you go. But what did you say has been the most challenging for you?
00:05:25
Speaker
aspects of these last 20 years. So I think, I mean, I'll focus a little bit on the, on the professional side of things. And what I'd say is the biggest challenge is I'll call it kind of recognizing my own power and what I can contribute versus being told or accepting my situation. I think the biggest challenge for a lot of women in leadership is in from a career standpoint is stretching without hesitation for those bigger roles.
00:05:51
Speaker
I think we all have seen that and experienced that if you're a woman in business. So for the last several years, I've made mentoring both within the company as well as outside the company a priority for me so that giving confidence and pushing people to really take chances and take risks where you're not sure you can, but a lot of it just comes down to confidence. I'll say that if I look at the last 20 years, probably the last five to seven years is really where I
00:06:21
Speaker
recognized that I needed to change that mindset because it is mindset. It's your own willingness to look at yourself as somebody who can do different things, can do more than what you're doing versus what somebody tells you you can and can't do. And I think in business that's knowing your value and only going and staying in places that recognize your value becomes much more important in your career.
00:06:46
Speaker
And this is a little bit of the wiser part that I was saying earlier, right? It's not just about the older part, it's definitely the wiser part of things. But it also means you have to be willing to take some risk, right? I've been lucky enough where I've been able to have those transitions of my career at the same company, but it hasn't come without risk. It hasn't come without leaving things that you're very comfortable with and making a move because you see that it could be something more, something bigger that you can actually contribute to than what you were doing before.
00:07:16
Speaker
But it's scary, right? Taking a chance like that, scary. Because what does it mean for your financial stability? What does it mean for your personal stability? You know, I have a very tight-knit family, but I was able to make some choices on where to go with my career in terms of locations without having a family in tow. So worrying about picking up and moving was less of a concern, but it's still risky. I mean, I remember being in Munich, and the only reason Munich was less scary is because I actually had
00:07:44
Speaker
a couple of friends from INSEAD who were close friends who were from there. And I had that network there already. And having that network makes a huge difference when you're in your willingness to take chances too, right? That comfort level that you have. If you don't have that network, then everything is just that much scarier and just that much more uncomfortable. Interesting. So this this theme with women in business and in leadership, you know what, I very much want
00:08:14
Speaker
to have an equal number of women and men come to the podcast. But I must say I'm struggling and it's not because I haven't invited enough of women.
00:08:25
Speaker
But it's difficult to catch women. And I don't know if it is because, only because we are super busy, because we have the busyness of our male counterparts. But then we have other busyness as well, like the household and the family, kids, those who have them, other family, nephews, nieces, et cetera. But I don't know. The guys jump on the opportunity immediately, whereas we
00:08:53
Speaker
We want to do it, but things get in the way. And I don't know, self-promotion or lack of realizing that we need to do that too. And obviously this podcast is not about promoting ourselves, but even here, right? Yeah, very close friends of mine and I couldn't catch them. I couldn't film them down. I do think some of it is, I mean, I don't think self-promoting is the right word, but being able to talk about yourself
00:09:21
Speaker
is something that I'm not comfortable doing it, but I've had to do it. So I've learned to do it from a career standpoint, because standing up in front of several thousand people at a launch meeting or a sales meeting is something that I have to do in my job, right? So that just starts to come a bit more naturally. But that idea of talking about yourself is not easy, first of all, right? And having that vulnerability and willingness to talk about yourself. But I also think that
00:09:49
Speaker
I can tell you personally, one of the feedback that I got recently from my boss, I worked on a transformation project. So the company I worked for went through a big restructure and I led the US portion of it. And when my boss asked me what I felt like I accomplished last year, I didn't actually highlight the fact that I led the transformation. And she asked me why. I said, because it wasn't me running it, it was the team. It was the collective group who was responsible for it. And she kindly reminded me
00:10:18
Speaker
as did her pause that if I hadn't been there, like I was the one leading the team, I wouldn't have gotten done. But that's not how I thought about it. Now, I don't know if that's because I'm that's because I'm how I'm trained and how I've lived my life. But maybe that's one of the challenges is I think about things as a collective group. I don't necessarily think about things as an individual. So talking about myself as an individual is not something I do on a regular basis. So I don't know. Just a thought. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's
00:10:47
Speaker
you're adding to my thinking. Thank you. Thank you about this. So stress and health. I'm a really bad person to ask about that. So you're very stressed and not stressed. I would say I, you know, when we talk about prioritizing things, I have found a good priority between work and personal. But the personal part is more about spending time with family and friends than necessarily taking care of
00:11:16
Speaker
myself in the best way possible. So I think the learning for me and what some of my friends and family pester me about is there's a lot of giving involved in all of that, but actually taking some time for myself is should be what I spend more time thinking about and doing than
00:11:36
Speaker
than giving to others, which is hard. I think it's, you know, cause I like spending time with my work colleagues, with my family, et cetera, but carving out, you know, a half a day or even an hour to go do something that I want to do. I, it doesn't come easily. It does not come easily at all. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's the givers, right? Givers are not good takers. Yes, exactly. It's true. It's true.
00:12:01
Speaker
I've mentioned in a previous conversation, give and take this book by Adam Grant and yes, some good lessons in there.
Pharmaceutical Industry Insights
00:12:10
Speaker
Now you are in the pharma industry. So maybe you can tell us a bit more about what exactly you do now. And then I am generally interested in a conversation about the industry and you've more than once reminded me about that the issue with costs.
00:12:30
Speaker
medical costs in the US in particular, actually, are not everyone blames pharma, but it's a small piece of the whole puzzle. So let's have a bit of a conversation about where you are, what you do, all these thousands of people, and then and then the industry itself. Yeah. So pharma is an industry that I've grown up with. I was in pharma before I came to insert and I went back to pharma because I truly believe this is an area where I
00:13:00
Speaker
It's continuously challenging from a business standpoint, from a science standpoint, and it's constantly changing. So being in it for 25 years now, I've definitely seen that evolve. And having experience in the US and ex-US too gives me a different lens. I'll start off with this, right? I think the industry is amazing in the sense that you're basically creating, I think as somebody says, miracles that fit in the palm of your hand.
00:13:31
Speaker
you're helping reimagine life for patients, whether you're a high blood pressure patient, whether you're a rumored head arthritis patient, or whether you're a cancer patient. And I started off in the industry working more in respiratory like asthma and cardiovascular. And the last few years have actually been in the oncology space. So it's even more impactful to see what the industry and from a research and development standpoint actually does.
00:13:59
Speaker
to bring treatments for patients. And if you're a lung cancer patient or a prostate cancer patient,
00:14:06
Speaker
getting an extra six months of your life is huge for them because the diseases are so, they move so rapidly that, you know, every single day matters. And we have, you know, in breast cancer these days, you have patients now with metastatic breast cancer who are living five, six, 10 years, you know, after diagnosed and treatment, which was unheard of 10 years ago. So the fact that you can change the, change the shape of
00:14:31
Speaker
the curve of life, like really bend the curve of life is amazing. So to be a part of that is right now, I don't work on the research side, I work on the business side. So my job is to make sure we're bringing the right products to market and making sure those products are successful because we are at the end of the day, a business.
00:14:48
Speaker
However, what the industry gets beat on usually is the cost aspect of it. And being in the US, the cost share in the US is significantly different because of the system in the US versus ex-US. So if you're in Germany, in the UK, the government is essentially determining your price points. It's also determining who gets access to your care. The US is one of the few markets where
00:15:14
Speaker
Yes, the cost is more, but you also have more freedom of choice in what products you can get and which doctors you can go see. And that is, unfortunately, that's something we pay for in the US market. But my biggest, what I've said to you before is my biggest frustration with how the industry is viewed is the cost of drugs in the overall healthcare system is maybe 10% of the total cost of healthcare.
00:15:43
Speaker
yet where we try to push for savings is on the cost of drugs, which doesn't fundamentally solve the problem of access to care and cost of care. There's a lot going on right now in the US government where people are challenging the transparency of PBMs and hospital costs. And PBMs are pharmacy benefit managers. They're a new business model that didn't exist 20 years ago, actually. And they're really there to make money. And you have companies who basically
00:16:13
Speaker
are middlemen who supposedly help save costs, but then in the middle they're making money. For a lot of products, what people hear about is the list price of the product, but they don't realize that most companies are probably discounting that price 50%, 60%, 70% in order to be contracted with those PBMs.
00:16:35
Speaker
and other entities never talk about what they're getting, right? They're charging what they want to charge, and nobody's questioning that. So even for me, who works for a health care company, my insurance is very good. But what I pay for whatever it might be is not controlled by my company. It's controlled by one of these PBMs, typically. So it doesn't matter what the actual cost of the original drug is. The PBMs determine what to charge. So it's very messy. It's very complicated.
00:17:03
Speaker
but it's also very intransparent. And I think that's the frustration is we're not picking the right battles to fight to change the healthcare system model. But that doesn't change the fact that what we do every day as an industry is work on products that hopefully just provide more for patients, whether I actually have a work, we're working on a product right now that's for a rare disease. It's for a condition that I think less in the US, like less than 10,000 people have the condition.
00:17:33
Speaker
Yeah. We have developed a per year. Well, the prevalence, the overall problem. So the fact that we've actually developed a product for it just speaks to the need, the unmet need. And really the process that works is in the early stages of development, you pick certain disease areas that you feel like have the strong unmet need and you try to find targets to battle that disease. And it really starts so early on, usually 10 to 15 years prior to anything coming to the market, somebody in the lab,
00:18:02
Speaker
is trying to figure out if this is the right target for a certain condition and trying to prioritize it. And hopefully it works. I think our hit rate with products with like phase one and phase two is, I want to say it's less than 25%. I think it might be less than 10, 15%. So you're talking about running through a lot of different things to get to a point where you're actually going into a phase three study, studying it in patients, right? In patients, the actual disease. And we're actually, what we're seeing now in the industry, which is,
00:18:33
Speaker
which is different from before is the FDA is much more open to looking at real world evidence and shorter term studies to give access to products for patients compared to before. But those are really for the conditions that are the most challenging, right? Like a lung cancer or prostate cancer or even pancreatic cancer where there's very few disease options. So even the regulatory pathways are trying to allow for faster innovation than what we had before.
00:19:00
Speaker
It doesn't change the business aspect of things and the challenge that we're talking about. It is a very competitive industry, even in spaces like oncology, because 10, 15 years ago, you might've had one option. Now you have multiple options, which is great for a patient, because now you can have your choice of products, whether it's better side effect profile, even potentially better efficacy, and companies will continue to invest in it. However, it's more competitive, meaning
00:19:27
Speaker
A company has to actually invest more, invest differently to make the product successful. I've worked in the breast cancer area where, for example, you would think that there were thought that many options, but actually the space we're talking about, we had three products of the same class that were competing against each other. And we've invested millions in long-term studies. So you're talking about studies that are looking at patients over five to seven years.
00:19:52
Speaker
before you actually see what the results are. So those are some of the things that you don't, you know, people laugh about consumer advertising in the U.S. for pharmaceutical products. The only country that does it. And I remember what I remember when it started back in like 1997 and the running joke for anybody remembers that was that it was for a herpes product. So that was the first GTC advertising. And now you see, surprisingly, advertising for a cancer products. But that's because the way our system is set up
00:20:22
Speaker
you have guidelines, you have things that physicians should be looking at, but physicians are also overwhelmed. They've got so many choices that they're trying to figure out, okay, I'm just going to pick one option. Not every physician does this, but I'm just going to pick one option that I'm comfortable with. So an educated patient actually is better because the educated patient, at least if not the patient and the caregiver, the
00:20:44
Speaker
the sister, the mother, the daughter, the husband, whoever it might be, to be able to go and at least ask the right questions to see if there's other care available. I just had to refer a friend of a friend to have to find a physician who was open to writing a different type of product because their current doctor wasn't willing to write a prescription for a product that they wanted to try. So even though it could have helped them. So those are some of the things where on the business side where you're trying to change
00:21:14
Speaker
trying to change behavior of physicians, payers, as well as patients, so that hopefully they at least know what choices they have, and they can pick and choose what's best for them. There you go. And so to finish this, I mean, in one of the conversation, the lifespan book got mentioned, and you know, there's a lot of talk about
00:21:41
Speaker
life, the longevity of becoming much better for even for our generation, but definitely for the next generation. And it is thanks to technology or thanks to a lot of new research and therefore products coming online.
The Future of Longevity
00:21:59
Speaker
So what do you see in the pipeline in terms of are you hopeful? Is the message hopeful being inside the industry?
00:22:13
Speaker
The lifespan between industry and just general society, the good things happening in society have helped a lot, right? Because lifespan is not just about the medications that are available because you can treat conditions, also access to appropriate care. Now, have we solved that in all parts of the world? No, absolutely not. I mean, luckily, in developed countries, you do see an increase in lifespan, but you still have lack of access to care in a lot of, whether it's Sub-Saharan Africa, even India. I was born in India.
00:22:36
Speaker
Yeah, definitely is. I mean, listen, the
00:22:42
Speaker
And to this day, you still don't have as good access to care. I see my aunts and uncles going through stuff that honestly, it's disappointing, but to see that they're still going through what feels like very old school ways of doing things and access to care. But I am hopeful because everybody is working to change that, right? And it's not just the it's not just the governments, it's partnerships with governments to make access to care available. It's also companies who are investing in things, right? It's not just
00:23:12
Speaker
Because working for a pharma company, yes, we are a for-profit company. We have shareholders. But there's arms of the company that are solely dedicated to global health, to working out access to care in places, like I said, like Sub-Saharan Africa, like India, different things. So those will help over time. But ultimately, what I'm hopeful for is that we will have more longevity. What I'm worried about is that we
00:23:42
Speaker
don't appreciate that and we don't take advantage of that extra time that we will hopefully all have, right? And about what we're going to do with that time because listen, we've gone from, you know, lifespans of people going, you know, in their sixties to now people in their eighties, right? But now the challenge is that instead of retiring, you're now having to potentially work longer, right? So you're not actually enjoying that extra time. You're just doing more work.
00:24:08
Speaker
And that's actually a fundamental challenge of our overall economic system that is a separate issue altogether. But I'd rather see us be able to enjoy that extra time rather than just continue to work our asses off during that time. Definitely agree with you. Oh, well, there you are. So and then navigating the world of big corporates, a lot of the people I've been interviewing actually are in
00:24:37
Speaker
at the moment in entrepreneurial situations, more of the P5 interview. But 20 years in the same company, different geographies, what are the pitfalls to be aware of? And here it's more for the advice you would give your younger self or the next generation in any case.
Career Advice: Networks and Risks
00:25:00
Speaker
I would say that I think in a big corporate environment, it's easy to get lost, right? So the three piece of advice I would have for anybody is while you're in one place, build your network out because you need to have sponsors, you need to have connections that can bring you back, right? Me leaving
00:25:18
Speaker
to go to Munich, right? Or even the UK was more comfortable and easier because I had a network in the US where I knew that if I needed to be back in the US, if I wanted, at some point I wanted to come back, I had access to that. And I had people who knew me and would be willing to, you know, give me a job when I wanted to come back to the US. So having that network and some sort of sponsorship is really critical. Second thing is having a really strong idea of what you want your career path to be.
00:25:48
Speaker
The example I give to the people I mentor is, listen, it's not a linear path. You have to be willing to accept the ups and downs. And I think that's the one thing in a more corporate environment is if you're chasing a title, it's really hard because different divisions have different titles, different countries have different things. But I was much more focused on what are the experiences that I want to get and really drove those. So I took a lot of ups and downs. I took a lot of step downs.
00:26:15
Speaker
lateral moves, et cetera, in my career. And so I talk about that with my mentees when I give advices. Don't expect everything to be on the linear path. And actually, you'd be surprised at what you learn when you're not taking a linear path and what it means for you for the future. And I think the last thing is
00:26:34
Speaker
At the end of the day, any change, like I was saying earlier, requires you to take some risk and being comfortable taking that risk and figuring out what the right risk is for you as an individual. I have close friends who moved around multiple times because they had a trailing spouse, but their kids were elementary school kids. I have friends who have kids in high school who they don't feel like it's the right time, but those are choices you have to make for yourself.
00:27:03
Speaker
picking the right time because balancing, right, if you're worried about from a family standpoint is going to be much more important and you don't want to look back and regret that you made the move. I actually know of a situation where, where some individuals are actually moving back to their home countries because of family issues. So these are choices you have to make, but you should be okay making those choices because it's the right thing for you. Yeah. Yeah.
00:27:29
Speaker
Absolutely. Well, I was earlier today recording with one of our classmates and he was, he had to make choices for the family on more than one occasion. And that's
Cultural Differences in Professional Settings
00:27:41
Speaker
why. So, um, right. All right. So, and cultural differences, any striking examples you have from working in these Germany
00:27:54
Speaker
thing for UK. Okay. Well, but even UK and America are very interesting because it's the biggest mistake of you speak the same language, therefore, and the culture is very different. So living in Germany, they're, they're extremely direct. They're very friendly people, but they're really direct. And they're very
00:28:18
Speaker
specific about things, which took some getting used to because actually the team I was in when I moved to Germany, I think I was the only American on the team. Almost everybody else was, I would say 80% I think was German, German or Swiss. But they're very direct and so it takes some getting used to for sure. The funniest thing is that people warn me, they're like, do not schedule a meeting during lunchtime because nobody will come to your meeting and they will be pissed off at you.
00:28:45
Speaker
which is absolutely true at 12 o'clock. Everybody went to lunch in the U S like a 12 o'clock. I might remember to go get my food so I can come back to my desk and eat my lunch. So that was interesting. It was good. It was great because that means I actually ate lunch on a regular basis versus versus skipping it.
00:29:03
Speaker
The difference with going to the UK is they were the complete opposite. You just didn't know what they thought about stuff. And it wasn't necessarily that they were being nice about it. They just weren't transparent about it. So the classic phrase of, well, that's interesting. Well, when you hear stuff like that, you're like, oh, you realize that it's actually, no, they don't think it's interesting. They think it's bad. So it's very intransparent.
00:29:29
Speaker
going from a very direct German to the UK. And then coming back to the US after all of that, I will say, I think for the first six months, it took some getting used to because 80% of the people I work with in the US are American. Some people who are actually from XUS, but most of them are American. And taking them at face value took some getting used to after working in the UK for a few years of, OK, are they really OK with it? Are we sure?
00:30:01
Speaker
Yeah, but I think the different experiences have helped me actually grow as a leader. You talk about situational leadership as the thing, right? On how you navigate those and in practice, right? I've had to do that. It was a lot of fun though because I had mentioned earlier, like I've worked with a great set of people and even the Germans, right? Very direct, but honestly, they were very friendly and very easy to talk to at the end of the day.
00:30:31
Speaker
The most annoying thing about that, though, is I tried to learn German while I was living in Munich, and I did a little bit. And in the spirit of being nice, they would constantly correct me when I was trying to speak in German. And then you know what? That gets old after a while, so I just stopped speaking German today. Yeah. Well, German is a language I've studied three times. I can handle my food in the restaurant and transportation. Yes.
00:30:58
Speaker
That's where I'm at. That's enough for me. There you go. So all right. And then the inside connection you've already mentioned, we travel quite regularly and you travel with all sorts of different things. Yeah. But how have you come across or do you work with inside people in the company or do you? So there's a handful of people I do work with who are in Seattle long, but
00:31:27
Speaker
It's been more recent than in the original few days. We do recruit from INSEAD, but mostly for our global office, not necessarily for our US offices. And then, so you are one of our bronze salamanders. We have 10 of those at the moment. I'm hoping we double them. I'm ambitious. But, so you've been, and in fact, you are
00:31:52
Speaker
There's only one person who's more consistent than you. We have one person who's been giving 16 of the 20 years. And you have given 14 of the 20. I've done less. So even I get distracted, if you can imagine that. So how do you think about giving? And obviously, you said you are mentoring. So this is giving. It's another way of giving. And it makes a huge difference to people to get the help and the navigation through
00:32:24
Speaker
professional careers. How do you think about giving in general and then giving
The Power of Scholarships
00:32:29
Speaker
to INSEAD? Why do you give to INSEAD? So for me giving to INSEAD, I will say that I don't think I would give as regular to INSEAD if it wasn't going to a scholarship. I think if it was just giving to university, I probably would be less consistent about it and less enthusiastic about it. So the idea of giving to a scholarship is really about
00:32:52
Speaker
And I've learned over time too, right? Having access to a network drives opportunity. And the scholarship fund actually creates that opportunity for the network. It's not about the education. Education is great, but it's actually not about the education. It's actually about post the education. So being at NCI gives you access to a network that creates opportunity for the future. So for individuals who are not necessarily coming from a classic like
00:33:18
Speaker
U.S. or European or big Asian market. How do those people get access to those to that network is what drives me to give. So, you know, if I can have even a small role to play in allowing one person, two people to have access to those opportunities, then I feel like I'm doing some small part to to ensure that to ensure the future is more positive for some of those individuals. So
00:33:45
Speaker
I mean, for me personally, I self-funded my program. I'm self-funded in Seattle, but doesn't mean it would have been nice to have that opportunity, but I actually think for me it's
00:33:56
Speaker
Like I said at the beginning, if it's not, if it wasn't going to a scholarship, I probably would not be doing what I'm doing. What I'm doing is consistently. So you're not buying an Amfi. You're not buying an Amfi. I'm not buying an Amfi. No. Okay. Okay. I'll let them know. I'll let them know. But we'll keep the scholarships. Well, I mean, I have been a recipient of a scholarship and this is what drove me to start the fundraising now.
00:34:18
Speaker
I've paid it back in money in time and everything in passion and so I feel good about this and this is the thing I feel good about it and I love what we are doing together so for me it's people keep saying thank you and it's like you know what you go and you ask people for money and instead of them telling you butter off they say thank you for doing this it's amazing so I
00:34:41
Speaker
I have no complaints but the scholarships and again with INSEAD, we all know that post INSEAD everyone is going to be fine. One way or the other some would strike the lottery but we would all be fine.
00:35:01
Speaker
as long as we are healthy. The issue is financing it. And for people from certain markets, i.e. developing countries, this is not straightforward at all. So that's where
00:35:16
Speaker
You know and this is my because when I was going I without the scholarship I would have struggled big time Because I didn't have access my income was too low to get the ABN loan I had to do some creative accounting I suppose right so Yeah, so that's and where we are at that the moment is that we have 430,000 euro in the fund but with
00:35:45
Speaker
the pledges we now have with Andrew and then some others are joining. Where I'm looking and hoping we can get to is a million euro which then really secure our fund to be able to give a very meaningful scholarship once a year and that's forever right.
00:36:08
Speaker
in one of the other episodes we've spoken with Victoria about the, about endowments and the whole logic behind endowments. So yeah, that's the motivation. And you did speak to the class at our Singapore Union. So thank you for that as well. Remember this in the class meeting. But this time I figured I am not going to ask anyone to speak during the class meeting. We'll do other fun stuff. Now we'll do it on a podcast.
Quickfire Questions on Achievements and Goals
00:36:35
Speaker
So there you go.
00:36:36
Speaker
innovating forever and ever. Cool. All right. And then if we can go to the quick fire questions and see how you do there. Your proudest achievement. My proudest achievement. I don't think I have an individual one yet. Okay. Working on it. Success for you is? Being able to do what I want, period. Happiness is? Same thing.
00:37:05
Speaker
Biggest regret? None. That's what I strive to, is not to have regrets. What keeps you awake at night? Not a lot. I sleep very well. Excellent. Condimental to good health and longevity. Wish you had known or someone had told you? That I should enjoy my younger days more than I did.
00:37:28
Speaker
Which in SEAD I will say probably was a good trigger for that because as you read in the description. Yeah, you started traveling. I started being not always a responsible one and then chose to have more fun. If you had to do it all over again, what would you change? Nothing. Retirement ever, never?
00:37:53
Speaker
Retirement from my current career, yes, at some point in the near future, but not because I would just stop and do nothing to find something else that I'm passionate about to create time for that. If you had to pick one book, everyone should read. The Alchemist. Okay. Noah has mentioned Quela yet. Most admired public person? I don't know. I don't have a lot of
00:38:21
Speaker
Public people, I actually admire a lot of people I know personally more than public people. Most despised public person. Oh, God, that is just a can of worms that we're not going to open right now. All right. And the last one, are you coming to Reunion? Yes, I am. All right. Try and welcome advance. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Wow. There you go. So we are going to see you in October in Fontainebleau and before that as well. Yes.
00:38:49
Speaker
reminding everyone that Gala is at the Chateau, October 7th, and I can finally officially say this was a conversation with Kavya Gopal, who I met in 2010, for example, chief member on College Portfolio GM US for Novartis, New York City metro area. Thank you so much for your time, Kavya, and for your generosity, and I'll be seeing you soon. Thank you, Melina.
00:39:18
Speaker
Appreciate it. Talk to you all soon. Yeah. You were listening to the Republic of India 20 years later, or 3d podcast edition. It is my hope to remind everyone what an interesting and there I say colorful bunch of people we are and how much we can contribute to each other, be it through ideas, knowledge or mere inspiration. The podcast is inspired by the original Republic of India, the yearbook,
00:39:45
Speaker
Produced on paper 20 years ago by Oliver Bradley and team. Thank you, Ollie and team for this contribution to our classes memory and for letting me continue in the tradition title and inspiration included. Creator and author of the Republic of India, 20 years later, all three deep podcast edition. Am I Milena Ivanova original music by Peter Dondakoff would help from their films productions.
00:40:09
Speaker
Stay tuned for more and remember to book your tickets for the 20-year reunion in Fontainebleau October 6th, 8th, 2023. Thank you for listening.