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Imposter Syndrome : How it shows up, ways to identify it and what can you do about it?
62 Plays8 months ago
Imposter syndrome is a space where Success and Achievment both exist however it comes at a price.. one typically overestimates others while at the same time underestimating our own selves and in turn our contributions to our lives and successes. What follows is overworking ourselves and in some cases Self Sabotaging to cover the feelings of inadequacy.
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Transcript
Introduction & Podcast Greetings
00:00:06
Speaker
Hey there, welcome to How We Think, a podcast that takes a deeper look at coaching conversations, the biases and beliefs that show up in such conversations and ideas that make you sit up and take notice of your own patterns, your behaviors and any opportunities of change. I am Bhavna here and with me once again, I have the witty Neha Indoria. Hey Neha, how are you doing? I'm doing well Bhavna, how are you?
00:00:36
Speaker
I am good and I'm very excited to yet host one more podcast with you. And I want to begin this conversation by thanking all the beautiful people who have listened to us in the past and downloaded these conversations and really affirmed that how we think matters, that how we think has an impact. And I want to give a special shout out to someone in Saskatoon, Canada.
00:01:04
Speaker
We would definitely like to hear from you, do write in about what made sense to you, not to forget people from other parts of the world, India, of course Sri Lanka, Spain, United States, Vietnam. Any thoughts Neha?
Global Reach & Impact Reflection
00:01:25
Speaker
No, it's so great to see so many different countries come together. Like when we started, I think we were just thinking of the five people that we know who might listen to the podcast in India. So it's really fun. And I think you and I both had like a great time when we were looking at all the
00:01:45
Speaker
and analytics and seeing these names pop up. And yeah, something
Imposter Syndrome Introduction & Personal Stories
00:01:51
Speaker
that we started because we had fun talking about, talking to each other and we found these topics interesting has become, is reaching out to however many people today is, is, is happening.
00:02:05
Speaker
Yeah, I want to start today by telling you about an interesting conversation that I recently had with a client in our coaching conversation. This was about a promotion that she had received of which she worked really hard at. And when I congratulated and appreciated herself work, she actually dismissed her hard work and attributed it to being at the right place at the right time.
00:02:34
Speaker
And it was really surprising for me. She actually discounted my appreciation and pretty much sounded guilty of her success. I was beginning to recognize that she was having a hard time internalizing the feelings of success. And she further went on to identify as a professionalist and how she now needed to be more
00:02:59
Speaker
to do more and basically work harder to sustain the new front success. And that's when I recognized that here in a very loud and prominent manner, imposter syndrome was at play. And that's when we decided that we needed to talk about imposter syndrome on this platform and that it is relevant for most people. Yeah.
00:03:25
Speaker
That's true. It being relevant to most people because I'm sure you, me, and probably our listeners can also recount similar conversations with people or feeling sometimes like that, like they have not deserved what they have achieved. And so it is one of those things that we should definitely bring out for these conversations.
00:03:51
Speaker
You know, I found this great quote from Brené Brown, the author. It says, the dark does not destroy the light. It defines it. It's a fear of the dark that casts our joy into the shadows.
00:04:06
Speaker
You know that her work focuses mainly on vulnerability, shame and self-worth. And these topics I feel are the core of what imposter syndrome might feel like. You know, it feels like I can't show weakness. I can't ask for help. I can't go wrong. I can't let a damn ball drop.
00:04:26
Speaker
Because if I do, somehow just one instance will be enough for the whole 8 billion people in the world to turn and look at me and say, ah, you didn't deserve to be here, you know, doing this in its life. Somehow the world will have uncovered the imposter, so to say.
00:04:47
Speaker
So true Neha. Boss's syndrome is a space where success and achievement both exist. However, it comes at a price. One typically overestimates others while at the same time underestimating your own self. And in turn,
00:05:03
Speaker
our contributions to our lives and successes. What follows is overworking ourselves and in some cases, self-sabotaging to cover the feelings of inadequacy. Even if you look at what
Challenging Internal Narratives & Self-Doubt
00:05:16
Speaker
we have spoken up, spoken till now on the podcast, we've spoken about limiting beliefs about labeling bias and thinking and possibilities. But I feel like this one, imposter syndrome, it sits behind a lot of these areas and is also influenced by all of these topics.
00:05:32
Speaker
It only makes sense to explore this now. And I also think, for me, you know, it's a personally relevant topic, a lot of experiences, beliefs and labels. And my notions about my gender, my role in life, all of that has created this perfect storm. And quite honestly, I'm still unpacking it. And all of the fun bits that we identify as symptoms of imposter syndrome, the perfectionism, the procrastination,
00:06:00
Speaker
those two by in themselves are so contradictory to each other. But the overworking, the reluctance to seek help, downplaying my achievements, all of this has manifested itself over the years. And it takes a minute, you know, to, to step away from the forget times and see your strengths and your weaknesses for what they truly are, except that whether anyone else is perfect or not, you are not and that's okay. And, you know, the only race that really matters is the one that you choose to run in.
00:06:29
Speaker
Everything else may have great rewards and great satisfaction, but it's not your race. In fact, I was reading this book by Valerie Young, The Secret Thoughts of Successful Women.
00:06:42
Speaker
And it talks about how capable people suffer from imposter syndrome and how to thrive in spite of it. And an interesting quote from it is that you can have all the confidence in the world and still be reluctant to self promote out of a steadfast belief that a person's work should speak of itself for itself. Well, it doesn't. You have to speak. Yeah. Thank you for bringing that personal
00:07:12
Speaker
story in, recognizing it out here, it takes a lot of courage vulnerability. I must applaud you for that. Thank you. It's part of the journey, I guess. Yes. And that's why we do it. Yeah. Yeah. It, you know, what you're talking about, it literally translates to an unending and self fulfilling continuum.
00:07:39
Speaker
Imagine, here I am worrying about my performance and how others see me. I would take one of the two roots from here on. I would either procrastinate or self sabotage.
00:07:51
Speaker
In either of the two options, I'm going to get a performance review, which may get me approval or mixed reviews. And now I will yet more, you know, one more time start to either push myself, work harder, and in some cases drive others harder.
00:08:12
Speaker
uh maybe micromanage since I also have the fun quality of being a perfectionist and then after doing all of this in our probability I will get success and then my body's return my fear of failure of being found out as a fraud comes back and I'm back at procrastinating or self-sabotaging
00:08:36
Speaker
Frankly, it's it's even sounding exhausting. And, you know, I've worked with a number of clients that came to me first because they had recognized the fatigue, the lack of motivation, the exhaustion, and they wanted to be more effective, basically do better. But little were they realizing that underneath all of this,
00:08:59
Speaker
There was imposter syndrome at play. That was making them feel like this. I somehow relate to that concept. And I think you've also mentioned it a couple of times, the bit about being on a hamster wheel. That's what it feels like. Yeah, totally. Yeah.
00:09:17
Speaker
But I think for our listeners, it's important to understand that the key differentiator that we should highlight at this point is that not everyone who works at bettering themselves or feels a bit anxious before an important event or has fears around work performance has an imposter syndrome. I mean, a lot of these feelings only showcase the fact that you care about what you do.
00:09:39
Speaker
and how you show up and the results matter to you. So where we invite your reflection listeners is to recognize patterns within yourself and others where that anxiety, fear, feeling of inadequacy is heightened and it affects the quality of your work or life for yourself or for others.
00:10:02
Speaker
and
Identifying Imposter Syndrome
00:10:03
Speaker
more importantly recognize that behaviors that are not backed with evidence they are that's where you will find it going towards imposter syndrome mode and there are also tools available to identify whether it is it is imposter syndrome or it is just a bad day and there's a tool it was developed way back in 1978 by
00:10:26
Speaker
Dr. Pauline Rose Clans and Suzanne Eames. I hope I'm pronouncing the name right. But it's called the Clans Imposter Phenomenon Scale or SIPs. Essentially, it's a small little test that you can take. I think there are about 40 questions. And it then tells you on the scale where you land. So if you're higher on the scale, it could be imposter syndrome. And if you're lower on it, it could
00:10:53
Speaker
like I said, be just a bad day and it's self-guided. It's simple. And it's, in fact, we're going to add the link of that test here also in case you would like to take a look. So that differentiator becomes important.
00:11:08
Speaker
While we were talking about the differentiators, I want to talk about the contributors of imposter syndrome. And we can categorize them into internal of personality specific or external or environment specific. To use a term we have all heard before, nature and nurture.
00:11:26
Speaker
Certain personality traits such as high levels of self-criticism or low self-esteem may predispose individuals to imposter syndrome. And then if external stimuli reinforces these traits, say societal norms and expectations regarding success, achievement and self-worth, or even past experiences of failure,
00:11:50
Speaker
rejection or a lack of validation or recognition for one's achievements, internalized beliefs about one's identities or capabilities based on gender, race, and many other factors. So you see there are a combination of these elements which are contributing to people,
00:12:10
Speaker
who go through imposter syndrome. Interestingly, even when I did the labeling survey, the understanding was that words that are given to us define us and have an impact. This impact can be negative as well as positive, depending on a lot of external factors. So essentially, if you are someone who
00:12:34
Speaker
who has a tendency to look at yourself with more criticism, or who has a tendency to take external feedback, you know, more to your heart, or you know, this thing, then there is a possibility that something like this might show up stronger or earlier or Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like the other day, I was
00:13:01
Speaker
baking bread and you make great sourdough and you told me and I thought it was going to be easy and I realized that I did everything right and yet nothing happened and that was later on I thought maybe it's not hot enough or maybe the environment is playing tricks on my dough so this is this is that external contribution.
00:13:22
Speaker
Yeah, that's true. And while you were talking about the survey that you did about labeling and the fact that there can be so many things that play into a person's response or reaction to a certain environment, I was imagining this scene in a workplace where everyone is walking around wearing masks because they are afraid that their true self is not good enough to show the world.
00:13:52
Speaker
And it seems like a confluence of such behavior where everybody's, you know, just trying to be somebody else. It heightens the possibility of triggers showing up as well. Like on a daily basis, using so much of our mind space and energy, shielding ourselves from a possible attack on our weaknesses, that even the slightest incident, it will set you off.
00:14:16
Speaker
Because I'm sharing my story here, I wanted to also share a specific instance. When I successfully raised my first round of formal investments and I got recognized for it, instantly I diminished that experience or dismissed it. The success seemed alien or almost like it hadn't happened to me and that the success did not matter because there was so much more to do.
00:14:44
Speaker
So I take a breath to just sort of, you know, bask in it for the lack of a better word. That
Impact on Self-Care & Boundaries
00:14:51
Speaker
was three years back. And just today I met someone who I don't know very well, you know, when they came to know what all I have done.
00:14:59
Speaker
or have been doing. And they made this observation that you are so dynamic, you're doing this and this. And yet again, I was very quick to dismiss the recognition of my work saying, you know, I got really lucky, I met the right people, my husband is supportive, my child is calm. So you know, how you see how instant this is, it's my narrative gives power to my beliefs. And therefore, breaking the cycle is possibly one of the, you know, toughest things to do.
00:15:26
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. But I also see that now there is a certain sense of awareness around your internal narrative that's coming to play.
00:15:36
Speaker
Absolutely. Absolutely. So this makes it a good time to talk about the double impact. So a person may suffer from internal feelings of imposterism, which could sound like I need to improve myself or do I deserve to be here? While at the same time, if their environment is also sending out a message of
00:15:59
Speaker
you are not good enough, you don't belong here, you need to do better. It becomes a continuum, impacting academic and work efficacy, along with our ability to create a path for ourselves. This is something that I have heard from a couple of clients when they were describing their work life. And they said, when I failed to meet the ungodly expectations of my boss, I was subjected to indifference and ridicule. And I once said,
00:16:28
Speaker
Yeah, ungodly, can you imagine? Another one said, I only pleased my parents when I succeeded in something that they deemed worthy. And this is when they were talking about their childhood. So can you see Neha? These are some of the live examples of people who experienced their parents, or, you know, authority figures a certain way, and are now experiencing imposter syndrome.
00:16:55
Speaker
Another big impact that I've seen of imposter syndrome is neglecting self-care. It's very apparent in these two cases that I'm sharing about, which means you neglect your own needs. And by that sense, you have a difficult time setting boundaries or saying no, which then means one would be overworking and over committing and ultimately in some cases leading to burnout.
00:17:23
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, been there done that. But listen, you may be wondering at this point, if this concept is really that prevalent, you know, in fact, I was speaking to a client yesterday, and they felt that it was blow not for permission. They said, it's good not to get full of yourself, it keeps you motivated and humble. And it made me think that
00:17:50
Speaker
Cause being motivated, being humble is important, but it is equally important to enjoy your success and feel genuinely happy at whatever it is that you have achieved. As to how prevalent this feeling of inadequacy is, I actually found a, found a great one for you, Babna. Mr. Albert Einstein.
00:18:13
Speaker
The man whose brain has been literally preserved because he used it more than others. He wrote in a letter to his friend, Marcel Grossman in 1913. And it said, the exaggerated esteem in which my life work is held makes me very ill at ease. I feel compelled to think of myself as an involuntary swindler.
00:18:37
Speaker
Einstein
Combating Imposter Syndrome with Awareness
00:18:38
Speaker
thought of himself as an involuntary swindler and it is and it was not just this letter it's actually a pattern through his life apparently. I found a book which I haven't yet read it's called Einstein his life in universe by Walter Isaacson and in this biography Isaacson delves into the into Einstein's personal letters and writings and he provides insight
00:19:04
Speaker
into his inner struggles and doubts, despite his remarkable achievements in the field of physics. Oh my, this goes to show that sometimes even a Nobel Prize is not enough to make you feel like you've arrived. Tell me about it. What will happen to the mere mortals like us? Yeah, which is why I said true, Jen.
00:19:27
Speaker
True, Jim, I agree. At this point, it becomes important to talk about creating awareness around how we are showing up for ourselves. In response to imposter syndrome, it is important also to talk about triggers. And mostly, when we start to categorize these triggers, they can be categorized into four buckets.
00:19:51
Speaker
So, a trigger can come from a situation, a place, a person, or things, and specifically how we see them, how they make us feel, and what is our internal narrative. So basically, how we think.
00:20:11
Speaker
Now, if this internal narrative is negative, it has the power to fill us with self-doubt and keep the imposter syndrome existing. While the moment we change the internal narrative, it bolsters our confidence and creates a distance between how we may have seen things earlier and how they are actually in the present. So I want to quickly talk about automatic negative thoughts.
00:20:40
Speaker
In short, ants. Just as mentioned, ants. And let's say the animal, what comes up for you? A line of ants. You know, the line of ants that's going on the ground. And the second thing that came to my mind was that if you, if you, I don't know if you ever, you ever did this as a kid, but if you put your finger, the ants will bend around it. Yeah.
00:21:08
Speaker
It used to be so much fun. But the analogy that I draw to the ants that you mentioned is that much like the little creature, our thoughts can also bend around our finger if we just make the effort to redirect them. You know, in the simplest of terms, when you catch yourself or someone else saying, I'm not good enough. Nobody likes me or I always fail. The idea is to essentially challenge yourself and get out of this mindset.
00:21:38
Speaker
Well said. Well said Neha. I don't think I need to talk about dance anymore. What I wanted to do. You're putting my broken end open. Let me just build on it a little bit more. So the definition of automatic negative thoughts or ends are the beliefs that are usually irrational and automatic and they come into our consciousness especially in triggering or stressful situations.
00:22:07
Speaker
and they serve to diminish our abilities and confidence and that's why it's important that we talk about a little more about ants. So by redefining or redirecting our thinking patterns, we can choose to feel a different way. At the end of the day, ants need a counter argument much like how you were saying challenge them. One could review and reflect and bring in
00:22:36
Speaker
a different angle, a different outlook. Imagine as soon as you're aware that the answer taken over, some new triggers, some new questions can come into play. Imagine if you ask yourself, what is the evidence here? Or you looked if there was another possible conclusion. Or if you looked around for people that you trusted that might provide an alternative point of view.
00:23:04
Speaker
So essentially be aware, question validity, find evidence and then reframe the thought. Go from I am a failure to I made a mistake that I can and what can I learn from it?
00:23:18
Speaker
Now,
Self-Love & Personal Reflections
00:23:19
Speaker
this bit, I feel, will also be supported by the simple idea of loving yourself. Now the idea, while it's simple, could be complex for some people. And as much as it may seem foreign or artificial, just practice in becoming your favorite person, really. Because your favorite person is awesome, right? They are great at what they do. They love you and everything about you. And they're good at calling you out when you seem to falter.
00:23:48
Speaker
That's what you need in your corner all the time. And you know, what gets missed is since this is such a big responsibility, we have to give this one to ourselves. Even when we have to support someone else, we can apply the same principles, but firstly,
00:24:10
Speaker
For ourselves, this responsibility of loving ourselves needs to lie within only. And when you're supporting someone else who might need help of it, you could offer encouragement, feedback, recognition of their achievements, and it will come naturally if you have applied these principles to yourself.
00:24:29
Speaker
It is also a very clear analogy of how this could operate in the workplace, right? If a manager gets to work, they think they deserve to be there. They're good at what they do. And more importantly, they're allowed to make a mistake once in a while. Then that's how they will show up for their team and even their bosses. You know, when you were talking about loving yourself and showing that care and the singing of a favorite person,
00:24:58
Speaker
I had, you know, for me, what came up was that I thought of my favorite person. And I thought of very quickly I landed on why that person was my favorite or what made that person a favorite of mine. Is that immense
Recap & Conclusion with Listener Engagement
00:25:13
Speaker
trust I had in that person? I believed in them.
00:25:20
Speaker
And much like how you said, turn the lens in words, bring it for yourself, trusting yourself, believing in yourself, loving yourself. Yeah. Those are the ways to go. It's easier said than done, but it's doable. That's what we are talking about. Let's create more awareness recognition and bring the change. So at this point, I want to recap
00:25:51
Speaker
what we have spoken about, where did we start from? We essentially started from this one person who dismissed, diminished her own success, how that led to the realization maybe impostor syndrome was at play. We talked about the continuum where
00:26:15
Speaker
Because we feel that we need to do more, we would be found out, you know, I feel like a fraud, I came here by chance by luck. We tend to push ourselves. We sometimes tend to push others, creating toxic environments also at times. More importantly, it could lead to not holding our boundaries, not being able to say no.
00:26:43
Speaker
overworking and in some cases burnout. So those are the things that can happen when imposter syndrome is at play. We then went on to talk about how it is prevalent.
00:26:55
Speaker
Not all doubts are imposter syndrome. Some are good because they push you forward with the recognition, with the awareness that it's not about being tough on yourself, being hard on yourself or thinking that you're a fraud, but it's about wanting to do better and it's just that.
00:27:17
Speaker
We trace the line to how our internal narratives play a part. Coming from a space of when we experience imposter syndrome around us, we tend to lean into imposter syndrome more. So we talked about ants and the line of ants and how it can be bent. Now there are many kinds of automatic negative thoughts that require
00:27:43
Speaker
challenge that require evidence and counter evidence of whatever I'm thinking is happening. What's a counter evidence? What is another point of view? Who is another person that may bring that point of view? What else is happening here?
00:28:04
Speaker
those kinds of things. And at the end, beautifully brought in by you is the fact that belief, trust in yourself, be your own favorite person. Start from there. That's the strength. That's the space deep within that holds the power, power of how we feel and how we live to fight another day.
00:28:29
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Bring in logic, bring in love. Approach anything from a logical perspective of saying, is this really bad, as bad as my head is making it out to be? And approach yourself with love at all points and always, always first consider the thought that you actually deserve what you have.
00:29:00
Speaker
and then go to the questioning part. Start with that. And this whole bit of loving yourself, it's actually something that your favorite person that that phrase is something that actually was highlighted to be with the by my daughter. I remember one day, just randomly, she asked me, who's your favorite person? And I said, you are she's like, huh? I said, what did you think it would be?
00:29:26
Speaker
And you know, I thought the first answer would be, you know, you are your favorite person. And she said it with such it seems so obvious to her and so so alien to me. And that's what got me thinking. And I think that's also the key in the sense that when we are kids, we haven't yet learned the ways
00:29:53
Speaker
in such depth that we can't get out of them. But it's not too difficult to go back to who you were as a kid and just think of that little child. And I think that seems like a good place for us to pause until next time.
00:30:14
Speaker
All the bits that we spoke about Sips and we will put in some amount of links for you guys to go through in case you want to.
00:30:24
Speaker
Thank you for listening. Do write to us about what you thought of this conversation and any other topics that you would like to explore in the next episode. And if this episode resonated with you in any way, we would appreciate it. If you could take 30 seconds to follow us on our adventures, share it with someone who may need it and hit subscribe so you stay up to date. Thank you and goodbye.