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The dark side of emotional intelligence
40 Plays6 months ago
Emotional intelligence, by itself, does not prescribe a moral direction. It provides the tools to navigate and influence emotional landscapes, but the application of these tools depends on the individual's moral and ethical framework.
But what happens when individuals with high EI, start to use this power to manipulate others and create personal success with little regard of the fallout on others.
Bhavna Awasthy & Neha Indoria explore these aspects, their detection, management and more in this episode.
References :
Emotional Intelligence: Why It Can Matter More Than IQ by Daniel Goleman
The Prince by Niccolo Machiavelli
Snakes in Suits : when psychopaths go to work by Paul Babiak and Robert D. Hare
email : [email protected]
Connect with Neha on Linkedin
Connect with Bhavna on Linkedin
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Transcript
Introduction to 'How We Think' Podcast
00:00:04
Speaker
Welcome to How We Think, a podcast that takes a deeper look at coaching conversations, the biases and beliefs that show up in such conversations, and ideas that make you sit up and take notice of your own patterns, your behaviors, and any opportunities to change. I am Neha Indoria, and with me once again is the awesome Bhavna Vasti. Hi, Bhavna. How are you doing? Hi, Neha. I am very well happy to be here once again with you. Yes, good times as always. ah Yes.
Influence of Strategic Texts on Politics and Business
00:00:37
Speaker
ah So, you know, Babna, when I was doing my MBA some 20 years ago, um I was introduced to this book, ah The Art of War by Sansu. It was, I think, my brother who who introduced me. And at that point, it definitely was, and I'm guessing it still is, it's considered as, you know, one of those required reading for B-School aspirants. and
00:01:00
Speaker
even though Mr. Tzu had written the book and know around B.C. and he wrote it for military leaders. But you know books like this, books like The Prince by Makevali, he wrote it in the 1600s in Italy and um closer to home the teachings of Chanakya. in Arthashastra, that was around four fourth century BC, they have all contributed to create this aggressive, ah your opponent is your enemy treaties that informs modern politics and workplaces. Now, I definitely appreciate the appeal of the strategic knowledge that one can gain from it. But as a coach, when I think about this framework in light of our topic today, which is
00:01:48
Speaker
the dark side of emotional intelligence.
Exploring the Dark Side of Emotional Intelligence
00:01:51
Speaker
I am landing on the fact that someone who is high on emotional intelligence can use the same strategies to the detriment of others. So I'm quite excited to share with our listeners what we have come up with. Yeah, I felt like we needed a drum roll before the dark side of emotional intelligence. The dark side of emotional intelligence. I'm going to add it in the music effects later. Just to make this fun. just to make this ah yeah It is um it is and definitely an exciting topic and you know while a lot of people may already know this, but um and let's start with what emotional intelligence really is.
00:02:34
Speaker
ah um And I'm going to go textbook on this, you know, Mr. Goldman has ah come up with this fabulous book concept. It's been read by the world. Yeah. um And here's the definition. So emotional intelligence involves a combination of competencies that allows a person to understand and manage their own emotions and the emotions of others. There is now a widespread recognition that these abilities, primarily there were these these four that he mentions in his book, self-awareness, self-management, social awareness, and relationship management. These four are crucial to achieving success in the workplace.
00:03:14
Speaker
I know that um you know we exist in duality. Duality in life means that everything exists in pairs of opposites, providing a balance and contrast that defines our experiences. It also highlights the coexistence of opposite forces and how they interact to create a balanced and meaningful reality. More often than not, it manifests in moral ambiguity, where actions or decisions are not clearly you know right or wrong, but contain elements of both.
The Dual Nature of Emotional Intelligence
00:03:49
Speaker
And then what happens is that we are challenged as individuals to think critically and ethically. So I read about this subject, the dark side of emotional intelligence, and I had to take a step back.
00:04:04
Speaker
I had not thought of the power or impact of the dark side. you know As a coach, I've been so focused to develop, recognize and practice emotional intelligence that I didn't even stop and ponder about the other side of having the great emotional intelligence. Yeah. I think the most interesting part and also the bit that to my mind gives it power, like you said, is that emotional intelligence by itself does not prescribe a moral direction. It provides the tools to navigate and influence emotional landscapes, but the application of these tools depends on the individual's moral and ethical framework.
00:04:51
Speaker
So if you foster higher EQ, logically speaking, it should go hand in hand with promoting strong ethical values to and ensure that emotional skills are used for the greater good rather than for the manipulative or harmful purposes.
EQ's Link to Negative Traits
00:05:06
Speaker
um There was a research done in the University of torron Toronto and it shows that individuals with high EQ could dominate group discussions and deceive others convincingly. yeah So, you know, so these skills, they are beneficial in certain contexts, but when and if you use them to manipulate and control group outcomes or outcomes of other individuals, it will show up differently. In fact, they did another study in the University College London.
00:05:36
Speaker
And this study found a correlation between high EQ, Machiavellianism and increased interpersonal deviance in the workplace. Employees who scored high in both EQ and Machiavellian traits were more likely to engage in behaviors that harmed their colleagues for personal gain. Essentially, where this lands, I guess, is that while being morally neutral, EI can therefore go either way because you will function according to your morals and the other person will function according to their morals.
00:06:08
Speaker
Morally neutral. What a concept. yeah As coaches, we we talk a whole lot about upholding neutrality in how we show up with our clients. but morally neutral is when we are actually analyzing the ethics of you know that neutrality also. yeah And while you were speaking and talking about these experiments, in my mind's eye, I was actually seeing them being played in the workspace and you know what started to become really is relevant and I would like to mention that is that
00:06:48
Speaker
When it comes to us, you know, coaches, emotional intelligence significantly enhances a coach's effectiveness, that we already know, and it enables ah the coach to foster positive relationships, ahll create supportive environment, drive meaningful progress, all of that for our coaches.
00:07:11
Speaker
But if you look at it from a very simple space, as a coach, the tools that we have are the way we communicate, the way we will listen, the ability to manage emotions, not just the coaches, but our own, as well as high self-awareness that helps us to be authentic, genuine, um and fostering a deeper connection with our coaches.
Emotional Intelligence in Coaching
00:07:42
Speaker
In effect, what I'm wanting to say is emotional intelligence enhances a coach's ability to connect with, understand and motivate our coaches, thereby leading to more genuine, um effective, fulfilling coaching relationships.
00:08:00
Speaker
But having said that, when subconsciously or consciously emotional intelligence is misused in these interactions, it can lead to less than ideal results for the client as well as come in the way of the poachers own development. Yeah, you're right. And this whole bit about EI being manipulated negatively um by any person, by a coach or an individual, um you know It takes him back to Machiavelli and there was a very simple but very powerful quote from the book, The Prince. And it says, before all else be armed. Now the Prince is considered by many to be the spark that actually revived classical republicanism. I mean, the founding fathers of the United States are said to have been very influenced by this book.
00:08:58
Speaker
Another notable person that he influenced was Hitler. So if you look at it in a work setting, there are concepts like deception, gaslighting, you know manipulating colleagues, divide and conquer. Such behavior often leads to high employee turnover, low morale and a toxic work culture. And then there are manipulation strategies like grooming, building, building a person just to bring it back. In fact, there is a book by ah Paul Babiak and Robert D, which is another movie-worthy title which needs its own ru drum roll. It says, snakes in suits when psychopaths go to work.
00:09:39
Speaker
And this book has a lot more on toxic AI in the workplace. It's its quite an
Personal Experience with Emotional Manipulation
00:09:46
Speaker
intriguing read. And of course, we will tag it in the episode as well. I'm very intrigued at the ah you know the intensity with which you have embraced this topic to today, Neha. You're coming up with references from Hitler, ah you know, books that mention the word psychopaths. It's very interesting. Yeah, yeah. No, no, we will stick along, ah listeners and and tighten your seatbelt now. We will bring this to a good end.
00:10:19
Speaker
I hope it is It's going to flow, don't worry. um So while you were talking about the book, I was thinking that it is entirely possible that there are individuals who have high emotional intelligence, but are not using it as a manipulative tactic. yeah when that When that happens, then ah Emotionally intelligent people are better equipped to interpret others' emotions and have more successful social interactions. This we've established. Their empathy can also lead them to take things too personally. Now see, this is the other side of it. Yeah. um So when they're taking things too personally, they can easily feel emotionally exhausted. ah Specifically individuals rules with an uneven pattern of EI skills.
00:11:13
Speaker
um For example, see increased emotional awareness coupled with reduced stress management may eventually lead to lower levels of psychological adaptability. i I've heard this from clients, one of my client had this knack of you know bringing it again and again to the conversation. um They always said, like you know I feel too much, which meant that while she was emotionally intelligent and knew how to rein it in, there were times that ah there was
00:11:56
Speaker
a lot of stress in the environment or she had higher timelines, tighter deadlines. That's where it can kind of came in. It's like I'm feeling too much, I'm over overwhelmed and I don't know what to do with it. Yeah. So if I extend that thought, and you know, we look at it from the perspective of the workplace, um high EI has been associated with various negative outcomes. And there was a study done about this in 2017. So for example, people with high interpersonal sensitivity might have difficulty delivering genuine negative feedback to their colleagues, possibly impacting their potential growth. In addition, they might be reluctant to make unpopular decisions that often lead for that readership roles often require.
00:12:41
Speaker
you know, to bring innovation, to change the organization. And by contrast, people with a uniform EI or an average EI, those people will respond more successfully to challenging life circumstances, including demanding academic and work environments and traumatic and events. This was again something that was studied upon by David and Nichols in 2016. And We will of course tie that up in, but how it's such a great cocktail the workplace is though everybody's different portions and different EI levels are working at the same time and creating this tsunami of challenges. Yeah.
00:13:26
Speaker
which goes back to say, ah talk about duality, talk about balance, and much like how, you know, my client was telling me this is too much, I feel too much. And here, the negative feedback or performance review or a tough decision can be um prompted by one, our internal narrative or the story that, you know, works for us, which is like for some people, it would be that they would like to be liked by everyone. They wouldn't want to rock the boat, oh proverbial boat, as they say. And in order to cater to that, this is where they struggle with. So if you had like you were saying, if you had a average or even you'd probably be able to navigate it because you will be coming at it from a very logical, rational outlook.
00:14:25
Speaker
or lens for that matter. And yeah while we have spoken about how the dark side may show up in an organizational perspective, I now want to highlight the ways the dark side can manifest in coaching conversations. So when a coach is exploring vulnerabilities, a coach with high EI will definitely pick up if the coach is exhibiting areas of vulnerability even when the coachee may not have consciously realized. And it is a likely possibility that an over your coach can actually jump the gun and call it out, not allowing the coachee to arrive at the recognition by themselves, thereby, corrupting the coaching space. Similarly, in a regular professional context, if a person was aware
00:15:19
Speaker
of the insecurities of another, they could manipulate the insecurities or fears to maintain control or power over the person. Another example that's coming to me is when a coach lays an over emphasis on emotions and while coaching, emotion while understanding emotions and is important in coaching and overemphasis on emotional aspects at the expense of practical solutions can be detrimental. A coach might overly focus on exploring feelings and have
00:15:59
Speaker
I'm a mentor coach as well, so I have experienced this. And what usually happens is when a coach really delves deeper into feelings, they possibly prolong emotional distress without exploring concrete steps for moving forward. Like the but client kind of is stuck, you know, in their own distress yeah of the feelings. And that is what we're always taught, right? Let go of the story. And in this way, you're actually extending the story instead of stopping. Yeah. Yeah. And eventually what happens is the client is left feeling stuck and also frustrated at the same time because solutions are not talked about. their The emphasis is on feelings. Right. And there
00:16:46
Speaker
also is another one which is the subtle undermining. And in this case, the coach might use their understanding of the coaches emotions to certainly undermine their confidence or self-esteem. Believe me, I'm not saying the coaches are doing this knowingly, but I'm saying it can happen. yeah right For example, they might highlight the coaches weaknesses or past failures. um As a result of exploring past experiences or in the guise of constructive feedback, leading to increased self-doubt rather than empowerment, feelings of empowerment in the coaching.
00:17:29
Speaker
a yeah And now that you highlight all of these aspects, what I'm also thinking of is what happens if you take, if you actually take the coachy completely out of the conversation and look at it only from how a coach with a high EI might use it for themselves. So what, by that, what I mean is that, you know, something like an emotional exploitation. it it It could be done purely for personal gain. A coach might use sessions to fulfill their own emotional needs. like They need to seek validation. They need sympathy from the coach. And then the conversations can address their own issues, subtly seeking praise, exploiting the coaching relationship for personal emotion grade gain. And you know it can obviously distract from the coach's progress.
00:18:20
Speaker
um
00:18:23
Speaker
Frankly, I don't know whether you would continue to call that a coaching conversation. drain And the last one, of course, is which kind of ties in with what you mentioned about the subtle undermining, right? Effectively, what all of this will do is that with it will create a dependency on the coachee for the coach. you know they will You are consistently, the clients are consistently feeling that I need this person to have this conversation, to feel ah feel that I can move forward. So even while the coach recognizes that the coach feels that they cannot succeed without the coach's guidance, the coach does not bring it to the table. They do not address or challenge, and therefore they're ensuring a steady stream of business. So this undermines the coach's confidence and the ability to act independently.
Ethical Standards in Coaching
00:19:14
Speaker
which obviously, like I said, you know we will have to question whether it continues to be a coaching session or not. Yeah. ah In fact, here is where it is very important to have supervision and have conversations amongst coaches. yeah Because when you are holding that space, you also hold the responsibility of sanctity of that space. And again, um I'm continuing to say it again and again, a coach may not be doing it knowingly. you know This thing of dependency may also oh come from a space of responsibility. When a coach is feeling responsible for the client's
00:19:59
Speaker
and I can't let them be on their own. I am responsible. At every step of the way, we are in conjunction with each other but and we are like holding hands with each each other, which is part part of the partnership aspect of voting. when it is leaning to one side is a tightrope walk. It can happen at any given cycle time. And since I have been more aware and observant about the dark side of AI, I started observing myself and others around me.
00:20:36
Speaker
And but can believe me Neha, I found so many places, so many times and events where I could see EI being overused or used to get a result that was more beneficial to one person. A simple example, from a conversation that I had with a friend once, In her romantic relationship, her partner with high emotional intelligence was using their skills to control the dynamics of their relationship. They were playing on ah my friend's emotions to avoid accountability and they mostly got their way. Leading to this imbalance of power and emotional manipulation
00:21:20
Speaker
and so much more that my friend was overwhelmed most of the time. Every time I spoke to her, oh she confessed she was almost scared to be her true self in the relationship. Plus she was either judged, gaslighted or made to feel guilty for choosing herself over her partner, even in very trivial matters. So it's not just organizations, it's not just ah the coaching space, but it is regular interactions that we are having with friends, loved ones in our, you know, relationships, important ones and not so important ones. From a very personal space, I feel that you know even in my life, there have been times that others and
00:22:11
Speaker
specifically sometimes friends and close relatives have used their emotional intelligence to exploit my generosity and kindness. I do recognize that, you know, I got played. I got played on my desire to help or take care of others. And as a result, I constantly found myself at the listening end of conversations where surprisingly, I was the best person with the solution or you know I was the best one to provide the care or to resolve whatever the issue was that required me to not just extend myself physically but emotionally as well leading me quite exhausted at the end of the things.
00:22:58
Speaker
and I actually related to my friend in that sense. I was so overwhelmed by the end of it because I was not seeing it for what it was. I was seeing it from my lens of my need to take care of others, to help others, um you know that bit. Yeah. um yeah And that's what that's what good coaches do. right They realize aspects of their own life when they see it happening somewhere else and all of us are works in progress. But thank you so much for sharing this because I think these are the bits that make it more real for anybody who's listening in, right? It's not like we're here spouting research. We also
00:23:46
Speaker
want to share our own experiences. And I do understand that sometimes we extend ourselves you know without realizing why or how. ah But there are these telltale signs that can possibly be the first step to avoid being the target of controlling or manipulative behavior. um saying one thing and then doing another. ah you know Somebody might be saying something to you and it's essentially what you would like to hear and then doing something entirely else. And a big one in emotional intelligence is this whole bit about charisma. right Hitler, I go back to Hitler, but he's a great example. The thing that pushed so many towards him
00:24:34
Speaker
was his absolute stellar talent on the stage. you know One man of no particular educational background, he wasn't even a citizen of the country. she created the and He did not even create the underlying thought, by the way, which you know did the whole which was the whole starting point. But he worked on what was already being said at a node volume. He took those thoughts, he screamed loudly, and he held whole nations, spellbound and at ransom just by his speech.
00:25:10
Speaker
so Charisma, and you can see variations of this in your life at at all points in time. Now the question is how you respond to it and how that charisma is being used by the person who's using it. um Another thing is, you know there are people who just know how to what buttons to push. um There are statements or issues that may be long past, but their reaction to these things defines your reaction to them. And then it becomes an endless cycle. And those who make you feel like you belong, they are the ones who will display trust in you by sharing too much too soon, by making it as if they need you. And in effect, ah they will make you need them to feel better.
00:25:59
Speaker
and those that would be nice to you only until it has a certain benefit to them. you know Your classic textbook ghosting or or those that withhold attention, love or even gratitude for so long that that's all you're ever looking for. So yeah, heavy stuff. Heavy stuff to just bring in some lightness. What is your infatuation with Hitler? I am completely like What a man. I know I will be cancelled out in so many ways, but trolled. Trolled now. Trolled and cancelled and whatever. I do not, I shall say this, I do not at any point agree with what he did or
00:26:45
Speaker
correspond to it or relate to it or anything of that sort. Yeah, but he's an interesting study. He's an interesting study and I think the point that I was simply trying to elucidate here was that ah you have the power and therefore you have the choice of how you use it. Yeah, yeah ah keeping the same thought in in mind, the telltale science that you were talking about, there is ah another one that is very clear, which is the doubt.
00:27:17
Speaker
so um these individuals, they tend to show us only one side of the story. And we might often find ourselves questioning their on honesty and transparency. So I'm leaning into what we feel from within when this is happening to us. so When this is happening, we may also feel confused by their inconsistent behavior and doubt our own ability to correctly perceive and interpret reality. I mean, somewhat a little bit about gaslighting is also that, right? Your question on your interpretation or your feeling of a certain thing by that lens, then there is also fear.
00:28:04
Speaker
People who are capable of emotional manipulation will often exaggerate facts to make us feel the urgency to act towards a desired direction. um Again, the Hitler example fits here also. This unpredictability of their reactions might also cause us general discomfort when we are around them. So, you know how some people say, oh, this person walked into the room and suddenly the energy changed. yeah And it could mean both ways, right? You felt very ah looking forward to hearing what this person is saying or you are now sitting and thinking, man, I don't know what will come up now, what passive aggressive thing will show up now.
00:28:47
Speaker
and that's That's assuming that you have been able to identify it as passivity. It's quite a possibility. haven haven't even It hasn't even registered to you ah that way yet. You just sit with that uncomfortable feeling, right? Yeah. yeah yeah and observing your own anger. So there may be times when we might easily feel frustrated and resentful as these people have the tendency to speak over us, wanting to impose their opinions and to tell us the way we should think and feel. Right? Again, Hitler very much yeah very much there. um Like you said, both nations.
00:29:25
Speaker
um And finally, oh the feeling of hopelessness. If we have developed a strong connection with the person who has high emotional EI or uses it to their advantage, we might feel like we are trapped in the relationship and we have little power to escape, much like my friend. And this is something that I have felt personally that manipulators are also often emotional black holes. We might feel completely sucked into their emotions and feel obliged to comply with them. Yeah.
00:30:07
Speaker
So I guess what it eventually would come down to is, you know like we just said a ah few minutes ago, it is this is heavy stuff and there is you know so many versions of this that that exist. um And as folks are listening to us, there might be some things that you could identify with. or maybe not, but the effective management of emotional intelligence is what it comes down to. And again, Mr.
Integrating EQ with Ethics for Positive Outcomes
00:30:34
Speaker
Goldman, in his in his book, Emotional Intelligence and Why It Can Matter More Than IQ, ah he emphasized the necessity of integrating emotional intelligence with a strong ethical foundation.
00:30:49
Speaker
Now he argued that without a moral compass, the skills associated with high EQ, they can be detrimental, as we have talked about. um Emotional intelligence when guided by ethical principles can lead to empathetic and pro-social behavior. And what I'm landing at from that view is that if we just shift the lens just a bit, ethics are as unique as DNA. There are some we would all share, you know, your anatomy, um the functions of each organ in your body. Some would be exclusive to a subgroup, like your gender, your ethnicity, your family. But some would be entirely yours, made out of the life that you have specifically lived. And sometimes this context is obvious, sometimes it's not.
00:31:43
Speaker
But the ones that wouldn't or shouldn't change, I would go as far as to say, ah they can be brought down to three simple point plan. And this was this plan was something I was introduced to be to ah by a friend. And you know what it says is safety, respect and hygiene. um Make sure you are creating and operating ah in a safe environment for yourself and for others. Make sure that your actions and those of others are respectful. Even if um you don't feel friendly, you still feel respectful.
00:32:20
Speaker
and not being thought you know and not following basic hygiene, um by that I mean not being truthful or being deceitful in any way, form or manner, that's perhaps not acceptable. So just keeping these three in mind, rage against the night all you need to. Your friend sounds like a very wise person first off. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I wanted to just add one more bit. Yeah. which is listening into our own gut. The inner voice of the gut or intuition, it's extremely accurate. And more often than not, we are so enveloped in the noise all around us that we miss the warning signs that our mind, our body, and sometimes our hearts are telling us.
00:33:08
Speaker
you know then That's uncomfortable feeling that we were talking about earlier. That's the heart telling that something's not right. yeah I'm not having fun. It's not safe, literally. um Connecting into how we feel when we are in the presence of someone is a very intentional yet simple thing to do. Just to summarize what we have explored today. One, EI has power to do both good and well and not so good. The dark side can exist in people and people are in organizations. They are professionals, employees, leaders, coaches, our friends, and even our family. So basically everyone. Hence, there is a possibility that someone somewhere is either consciously or so subconsciously
00:34:01
Speaker
using EI to make things work for themselves. With awareness and recognition of the telltale signs, we can spot it. We can spot when we are being taken for a ride or not. and And at the end, and I want to ask our dear listeners, have they witnessed the dark side at play? Yeah, that's something to think about folks. And do let us know what what comes up for you. And it might also be interesting to consider that every coin will have two sides. By that, what I mean is that
00:34:44
Speaker
Just for a moment, think um if someone else has the ability to mold your thoughts and or actions, there is a possibility that there is a certain lack of awareness and or confidence that might be doing internally, that this is allowing um such a thing to happen. So creating more awareness of your own abilities and boundaries may be something that helps. And secondly, just as we need to cut ourselves some slack, you know show some compassion, I wonder what would happen if you view the other person's actions from a point of neutrality. I mean, are they even aware of what they're doing? Because it can happen that they're not.
00:35:31
Speaker
And they are caught up in their own definitions and masks and deceptions. um It's not necessary. It's definitely not something that happens every time, but maybe. And it could there be a possibility that a candidate discussion is all that's needed to turn things around, you know, as always. We will mention the names of the books that we are talking about. We will mention all the research that we have spoken about. And we certainly, we were fairly passionate today. about yeah yeah yes But we hope that this was something that you know caught your interest. And if it did, please write to us. um Let us know what you thought.
00:36:12
Speaker
and If there are any other topics that you think we should bring up on this table to discuss, we would love to hear that as well. And if any of this resonated with you, we would appreciate it if you could take 30 seconds to follow us on our adventures, share it with someone who may need it and hit subscribe to stay up to date. Thank you and goodbye.