Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
The deceptions within us
52 Plays5 months ago
This world is a playground of Maya or illusion, where what seems real is not, and what is not real seems so. Or rather we live in a world of deceptions, some exisiting before us, others create dfor us and those that we create for ourselves. And it is these deceptions within us that we are exploring today. From the little lies we use to protect our egos to the grand narratives that shape our identities, deceptions are a constant part of our existence. These self-created illusions can offer comfort, they can also be something that keeps us from becoming what we really are.
Books
On Becoming a Person by Carl Rodgers
Radical Honesty by Brad Blenton
Mistakes Were Made (But Not by Me): Why We Justify Foolish Beliefs, Bad Decisions, and Hurtful Acts" by Carol Tavris and Elliot Aronson
The Art of Thinking Clearly" by Rolf Dobelli
Strangers to Ourselves: Discovering the Adaptive Unconscious" by Timothy D. Wilson
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to 'How We Think'
00:00:01
Speaker
Hi there. Welcome to How We Think, a podcast that takes a deeper look at coaching conversations, the biases and beliefs that show up in such conversations, and ideas that make you sit up and take notice of your own patterns, your behaviors, and any opportunities to change. I am Neha, and with me once again, I have the awesome Bhavna Vasti. Hi, Bhavna. How are you doing?
00:00:26
Speaker
Hi Neha, very well. I'm happy to be here once again. Doing another great conversation, excited about it. Sir Bhavna,
Philosophical Insights from Ramayana
00:00:34
Speaker
we are getting a bit philosophical today. In Ramayana, which is the ancient Hindu epic, Vibhishan says to Ravana,
00:00:42
Speaker
He is one of the main characters in the story, that this world is a playground of Maya or illusion, where what seems real is not and what is not real seems so. Or rather we live in a world of deceptions, some existing before us, others created for us and those that we create for ourselves. And
Delusions and Self-Awareness
00:01:03
Speaker
it is these deceptions within us that we are exploring today.
00:01:07
Speaker
From the little lies we use to protect our egos to the grand narratives that shape our identities, deceptions are a constant part of our existence. These self-created delusions can offer comfort. They can also be something that keeps us from becoming what we really are. To build on what you were saying, I want to draw your attention to why talking about deceptions within us becomes relevant, especially with us coaches. I mean, it's relevant for most people, but more so for us as coaches.
00:01:37
Speaker
I want to lean into an analogy here. We say, as coaches, we act as a mirror for our clients. We do not improvise or even assume or speculate. We mirror back what we hear, see, feel, and sense to create this awareness in our clients or coaches through our questions.
Coaching: Mirrors and Deceptions
00:01:58
Speaker
But imagine this, when a mirror is flawed or it has cracks on the reflective surface
00:02:07
Speaker
It has, you know, something has chipped off or it is reflecting an incomplete picture. We would have inadvertently contributed to how our clients see themselves. Imagine if we have not come to terms or explored or addressed, acknowledged the deceptions within us. We would influence the coaching landscape subconsciously, unconsciously, or even naturally at times.
00:02:36
Speaker
So what I'm essentially wanting to do through this conversation is to explore not just what could or are some of the common deceptions within, but also how we could be more accepting of ourselves, how we can recognize our blind spots, but at the same time have a handle on them. You know,
00:02:59
Speaker
I'm always talking about being kind and compassionate towards our own selves to allow ourselves the courtesy to exist in the grace.
Grace and Ideal Self in Coaching
00:03:08
Speaker
Because if we know how to exist in the grace, we definitely can extend the same space for our clients, a space that essentially promotes kindness and compassion. What do you think about that?
00:03:22
Speaker
Yeah, the cracked mirror, I could see that analogy of how it would definitely show up in a coaching conversation. And I think the line that I love the most in what you said is exist in grace. You are a coach, but you're still human. And I think for all people, we exist in grace because
00:03:47
Speaker
because we're in a constant motion towards seemingly our ideal self, if you may, you know, so it's almost like that the color hasn't changed over. It's, it's not entirely white, it's still not become black yet. And because of this, there are some lines that we're okay with on our own. And those are fathers. You know, I recently were had a first session with a client and the
00:04:15
Speaker
It seemed like this will go like clockwork. The goal that he stated for our sessions was very clear, concise, very specific. It was fascinating. In the pre-coaching form, he seemed so clear. He's a founder. He knows what he wants for his company. He knows what he does not want to do. And best part, he has a blueprint of how to get it.
00:04:37
Speaker
So, I was excited to speak to him and you know in our session he says that this is what I'm doing, this is what I don't like, this is you know, this is how I can make my business text 10x and at that point I was like fair enough.
00:04:52
Speaker
Why are we talking? In the next two minutes, what came out were two things. One, that it was probably not as easy as he was telling himself that it would be since making the 10x company would actually require him to give up on the things that he set as his boundaries.
00:05:19
Speaker
And secondly, it probably isn't even something that he likes to do. And, you know, that became the main source of conflict. So this is how it shows up, right?
Carl Rogers and Present Living
00:05:31
Speaker
He is in this gray, undefined space where he can see what is at the end of the tunnel, but he is just a little bit reluctant to get there. So there are a little bit of, there are a few lies that are at play.
00:05:48
Speaker
And because his ideal version of life is different from the one that is today, the conflict is ongoing. You must have come across Carl Rogers. He's the Nobel award-winning professor. And in 1959, the gentleman came up with the theory of self-actualization. All of us have heard the term to a certain degree.
00:06:15
Speaker
And basically what he's saying is that we are all working towards our ideal self, a version that has not yet reached full potential. And Roger suggested that people should continually strive to fulfill their actualizing tendency and what he refers to as fully functioning. So a fully functioning person is one who is completely congruent and living at the moment.
00:06:42
Speaker
This is the line that gets me. If you think about it, we all want to consistently become something, a CEO, a successful entrepreneur, a respected coach, a millionaire, whatever. But because we seek to become, it naturally follows that we are not yet. This living in not yet seems to be the source of all conflict to my mind.
00:07:07
Speaker
And the question that comes to me is if I'm living in the moment, then I should be okay with this version. I don't need another one.
00:07:16
Speaker
I like how you think Neha. That's what a brilliant line of thought and questioning it is. You know, I don't think the self-work ever stops. Imagine, one day I come around and I say, I think I'm the best version of myself and I cannot improve. So then what's next for me?
00:07:38
Speaker
as a coach, as a parent, as a friend, as a mentor, as basically a human being. What's next for me? While I'm not challenging the work of the great Carl Rogers, I actually believe that this is what existing in Greece look like. So indulge me. On one side, I'm living in the moment and totally enjoying being one with the moment. I'm existing in acceptance and compassion.
00:08:06
Speaker
But I'm also existing in possibilities. Am I not? And we've talked about existing in possibilities in another episode. But in my existence as a whole, I am open to any number of possibilities of which one may be different or a better version of myself. So then where is my self-actualization? Has it happened? Has it not? Am I on my way to it? But it exists, right?
Self-Perception Manipulation
00:08:36
Speaker
Of course, the analogy, the visual that I got in my mind, and you know how I am a visual thinker, but the visual that I got in my mind was the carrot and the stick, right? You have, this is, you know, one way to look at it, which would possibly be the overwhelmed version of things would be that this is possibly the biggest deception that there is.
00:09:01
Speaker
some version that exists that's better than today's self-actualization. Possibly the biggest deception. But what I'm also hearing is that ideally what needs to happen is that we accept the current version of ourselves and then stay open to the idea that some other version may present itself.
00:09:23
Speaker
You know, and this version I kind of like because it almost sounds like we are leaving it up to life to reveal itself. The carrot has kind of disappeared in its clarity. You know, almost
00:09:39
Speaker
When you look at it from this light, it becomes easy. It takes the pressure off from the individual to do the work. A ke sera sera sort of existence. Perhaps what happens for most people is that we take on that responsibility of the new version or rather we define it. You know, we say this is it. It is a CEO or nothing else. And as a result, it is no longer success that you're striving towards. It is a role, a car, a house, a perception or
00:10:09
Speaker
a carrot. Hmm. I hear you. And it does make a lot of sense. And I'm glad that you know, you you're here now. You're open to say all these big words of deception and actualization and all of that. But let's talk about and
00:10:32
Speaker
Let's talk a little bit more about why these deceptions exist and how they're part of our internal landscape. See, individuals, they distort or manipulate their own understanding of themselves, others, and the world around them because they may be serving to protect their ego.
00:10:56
Speaker
or cope with difficult emotions, maintain a desired self-image, or simply to avoid confronting uncomfortable truths. We've been there. We've all been there. One or the other reason we've done it.
00:11:13
Speaker
However, while these deceptions may provide temporary relief or even psychological comfort, they often come in a way of personal growth, authenticity and meaningful connections with others in the long run. Another thing that comes to my mind is that normally our minds are adept at rationalizing our actions and beliefs, often believing that motives are, you know, noble.
00:11:43
Speaker
we want to be altruistic. But they truly are so ideal that in that deception lies our justification. So there was this interesting book that I was going through in during my research on this topic. And this book is called Mistakes Were Made, but not by me.
00:12:08
Speaker
story of everyone's opinion. Why? Yeah. Why we justify all these beliefs, bad decisions and hurtful acts. This is by Carol Tavras and Elliot Aronson. And in this book, they explain how people often seek to reduce this dissonance by engaging in various forms of self-justification.
00:12:30
Speaker
such as blaming others, minimizing the significance of their mistakes, or reinterpreting events to fit their existing beliefs. This book also explores how the process of self-justification can lead to a cycle of denial, rationalization, and continued error. I'm pulled back to what we started with, that it is a world full of illusions
00:12:59
Speaker
And the irony, of course, is that the self-justification is happening mostly for things that aren't true. Now, you know, we tell ourselves what we are supposed to want, how we should feel, why we need to get it, and forget along the way to stop and question what happens after we have reached the top of whatever mountain we are climbing. Would we really like the blue?
00:13:27
Speaker
A very oversimplified corollary would be that we are basically stuck in a lifelong childish tantrum. I remember my daughter once went for what felt like a two hour loop. I'm sure it wasn't that long because I wouldn't let her take a bath inside the washing machine with her stuffed toys.
Memory Distortion and Suggestibility
00:13:47
Speaker
Now, the analogy may seem a little out of left feet, but the similarity is oftentimes we are stuck in a loop of our own making, wanting, needing something, not ever really knowing what it is. And because it is a seeming truth that has been told to us by
00:14:07
Speaker
you know, everybody around us and ourselves, these deceptions show up in some form or the other and the way to change it perhaps would be to become keen observers of ourselves and so that we can gradually identify these deceptions and then perhaps make a decision whether we want to keep them or not. Well said, yeah. And you know, what I want to do to
00:14:38
Speaker
talk about some of the findings, not through just the book that I mentioned before, but others that seem to
00:14:47
Speaker
highlight when we explore deceptions within us. So the first one, primarily being the illusion of objectivity or being rational in our thoughts and actions, while we may believe that we are in fact, mostly objective and rational, in reality, we are often driven by unconscious biases
00:15:12
Speaker
motivations that influence our perceptions and judgments. And much like a daughter who is driven by the villain if they're maybe taking a bath in the washing machine would be the same for her as well as her soft toys. Then there is the power of self justification which is something that we just spoke about.
00:15:33
Speaker
which much like you have already mentioned, self-justification can lead to a range of negative consequences, including social conflict and in an organizational concept, dysfunction and personal distress.
00:15:48
Speaker
And finally, the role of memory and how memory can be selective and malleable, leading people to reinterpret past events in a way that support their current beliefs or actions. So there was this experiment that was done in 1974. It was done by these two psychologists, Elizabeth Loftus and John Palmer.
00:16:15
Speaker
And it was not just one experiment, but they conducted a series of experiments on false memory formation showing how suggestibility and leading questions can distort eyewitness testimony. In one of the studies, the participants watched a video of a car accident and they were asked about the speed of the vehicles using different verbs.
00:16:36
Speaker
So, for example, they used the word smashed. In another question, they used the word hit. And those who heard the word smashed were more likely to report higher estimates of speed and recall seeing broken glass even when there was none in the video. So can you see the impact and power of how we interpret
00:16:59
Speaker
and remember events that may be important to us. We attach the meaning.
Social Media and Self-Presentation
00:17:05
Speaker
The meaning may or may not work for us, but that's how we show up. Yeah. All the branding and advertising folks listening to this podcast, please consider this. Next time when you're making an ad, think about the impact of your words.
00:17:22
Speaker
But to come back to bring us back to the topic at hand, I was reminded of selective self-presentation and of course the best, the most defining example of our generation might be the social media platforms.
00:17:43
Speaker
Individuals have the opportunity. They have the opportunity to curate and present idealized versions of themselves to others. Of course, algorithms don't help us. They only show us what we want to see. And they often share collective, carefully selected photos, posts, updates that highlight their accomplishments. And it's only natural if you think about it. I mean, you would only want to talk about the good stuff in your life. Nobody wants to talk about the bad stuff. But what it does is that
00:18:14
Speaker
selective self-presentation will create a distorted perception of reality and it will lead others to believe that everyone else's lives are perfect and that can contribute to feelings of inadequacy or the acronym of our generation for more in viewers. Oh
Echo Chambers and Decision-Making
00:18:35
Speaker
yes, totally makes sense.
00:18:38
Speaker
And you know, talking about social media, there is also this concept of filter bubbles and echo chambers. And you've heard about it? Yeah, echo chamber, of course, I have, but tell me more.
00:18:53
Speaker
So the social media algorithms, much like how you were talking, are designed to prioritize content that aligns with users' interests, preferences, and previous engagement patterns. As a result, individuals may be exposed primarily to content that reinforces their existing beliefs, values, and perspectives, while filtering out opposing viewpoints.
00:19:14
Speaker
This then has the probability to create echo chambers where people are insulated from diverse opinions and alternative perspectives, leading to reinforcement of biases and the perpetuation of misinformation or false beliefs. So for that matter, there is this other concept called adaptive unconscious.
00:19:40
Speaker
This is when our mind operates automatically and quite quickly to process information or make quick judgments and also guide behavior without conscious awareness. So having said that, while we may think of ourselves as rational beings,
00:20:01
Speaker
As we have talked about in the beginning, with full control over our thoughts and actions, much of our mental processing is actually occurring at an unconscious level, mostly influenced by past experiences, social norms, and even evolutionary pressures, which is our social media.
00:20:21
Speaker
I want to emphasize
Vulnerability and Self-Acceptance
00:20:22
Speaker
the importance of recognizing the limitations of conscious awareness and understanding the adaptive functions of unconscious mental processes that can not just help us better understand ourselves, but also others. And this knowledge can be then applied to improve decision making, communication and interpersonal relationships.
00:20:47
Speaker
adaptive unconscious. I like that. I like that term. And I think if there is any message for our listeners today, it is the fact that it's all an illusion. But having the awareness of the fact that it is an illusion will most likely allow you to also accept that fact.
00:21:10
Speaker
And in this case, it would also require a giant dollop of vulnerability, something that, you know, you and I have been talking about in detail. Now, in 1959, Karl Rogers talked of vulnerability in the same vein as he talked of self-actualization, you know, being present, focusing on today is basically about being vulnerable enough to accept that I can't do this now.
00:21:37
Speaker
A newer repackaged version of this also came out from America. A gentleman called Mr. Brad Blanton, a politician and also a psychotherapist who coined the term radical honesty. And thankfully, in a year which is closer to us, which is 1994, as my other research was from before, you know, so what I was wondering about both of these is that accepting now also means accepting that some deceptions are here to say, stay,
00:22:07
Speaker
And to me, that seemed okay. And by that, the intention is that perhaps we might understand the concept and then first be radically honest about ourselves, to ourselves, about what we like, what we don't like, make choices that don't harm others, and are ones that we are completely on board with for the right reasons.
00:22:34
Speaker
with that rider. And if after that, there are still some things that linger today, then perhaps it's okay to have them. Oh yeah, most definitely. I like how you're bringing in your compassionate side and saying, let's not fight these internal battles. Let's accept things for what they are. While I agree, I want to bring in a few quick filters that can be our North Stars.
00:23:04
Speaker
First off is honesty. Much like Carl Rogers and you, I do agree with that. Being honest with our own selves to take a minute, a moment to check in, to assess, to have that conversation with oneself about, am I digging my heels because it's a matter of ego?
00:23:24
Speaker
or because I truly believe in this thing or because this actually will bring in the results that I want to create for myself and that those results serve me. Then comes self-accountability, leaning into the importance of accountability and self-awareness to overcome self-justification and learning from our mistakes. Like, you know, that whole thing of
00:23:50
Speaker
And this was me some years ago. I don't need help. I can do it all. I'm very capable in this day and time. This acknowledging my error and taking responsibility for my actions, I actually broke away from the cycle of denial and rationalization. Like I can't do oil. I am mere mortal.
00:24:14
Speaker
Nobody is going to give me an award, a prize, a medal, nothing. So the psychology of self-justification actually means that most of the times we deceive ourselves to protect our egos and preserve our sense of identity.
00:24:31
Speaker
In our other podcasts, we have spoken about mechanisms of cognitive dissonance, tools to recognize and overcome our own biases and errors in judgment, ultimately leading to greater self-awareness and personal growth. I know, I know. We always arrive at awareness and acceptance. What to do? Those are the ways, you know, just the way forward. That's how it is.
00:24:55
Speaker
Yeah. And, and this, you know, thank you so much for sharing the fact that these are, these were some, at some point your statements, I don't need help. I am capable. I can do all. Yeah. And that's
Cognitive Biases in Literature
00:25:08
Speaker
where vulnerability or deceptions, both of them show up exactly at the point where you start to say,
00:25:15
Speaker
Hang on, do I need help? Yeah, when you question yourself. Yeah, that's when it that's when it'll all first shatter and then you get an opportunity to rebuild perhaps. But you know, we talked about one book and that's a good one. But here is another book that needs a mention when we talk about dealing with deceptions, which is The Art of Thinking Clearly by Rolf Dubelli. I hope I'm pronouncing it right.
00:25:43
Speaker
The book is structured as a collection of short chapters, each focusing on a specific cognitive bias a logical fallacy. No belly uses anecdotes examples and psychological research to illustrate exactly this complexity, he makes
00:26:02
Speaker
complex ideas accessible and relatable to readers. He's just my kind of author. He covers a wide range of biases. He includes confirmation bias, hindsight bias, availability heuristic and overconfidence effect among others.
00:26:18
Speaker
And essentially what he's saying is he's trying to highlight ways in which our minds often lead us astray, causing us to make irrational choices, misinterpret information and possibly given to something that might not be the right way of thinking. And it draws in inputs and insights from psychology, behavioral economics and neuroscience. And effectively he takes
00:26:49
Speaker
all of this great pool of information that's available outside and simplifies it for someone who's looking to improve their decision making skills.
Simplifying Complex Topics
00:26:58
Speaker
Sounds like this book has a simple and practical approach and this is actually talking about a couple of things that we have already talked about but like if somebody had to go and find a book like structured book and I like how it is short episodes and short chapters and stuff like that so
00:27:22
Speaker
I think I can even relate some of the chapters in this book to imposter syndrome, which is something that we spoke about last time. This then I feel becomes that much more relevant to leaders or aspiring first-time leaders of today. Thank you for bringing this book in, Neha. Thank you, Abhna. And that's also the bit that I like of what we are trying to do here with this podcast, taking something
00:27:49
Speaker
abstract as deceptions within us and perhaps a little complicated and simplifying it in a language that first makes sense to us and then makes sense to the audience it is intended for. I always, whenever we are speaking, I envision a founder who's
00:28:08
Speaker
here in this podcast. And I think how can I say things in a way that they get it. And that's the thing
Recap and Listener Engagement
00:28:13
Speaker
about topics as well. In fact, I'm quite excited for the next one, which sounds like Hitchcock movie, the dark side of intelligence. But in simpler terms, the dark side of emotional intelligence, which we hope to explore in our next episode, we'll talk about the role that emotional intelligence plays in in different aspects of our life.
00:28:38
Speaker
Oh, thank you for that teaser, putting that in there. But I think this is sounding like a good place to pause. And I want to quickly summarize for our listeners what were some of the highlights in today's conversation. So we started the conversation with what are deceptions and examples of deceptions within us and how it becomes a relevant topic for most.
00:29:07
Speaker
knowing the reality and when we are choosing to lean into the deception is the way forward. A good point by Yuneha was also that some deceptions are part of our compensating behaviors and they work for us, allow us to navigate an extremely tough world. And that's okay, you know, to keep them, to embrace them, to acknowledge them, that's okay. As long as we're doing it with clarity and
00:29:38
Speaker
and knowing that that's the choice that we are making consciously. Yeah. And also right reasons. Yeah. For the right reasons. Yeah. Correct. Then we talked about a couple of concepts and outcomes as a result of these deceptions, like how we see ourselves as very rational and objective people, how self-justification gives these deceptions power and what role our memory serves in upholding these deceptions.
00:30:09
Speaker
So remembering how we remember things and are they accurate or not also becomes one of the things that we could do to help ourselves. We also talked about a couple of books that will of course be mentioned in the footnotes. And then you spoke about radical honesty, selective presentation and echo chambers and how social media plays an important contribution to the deceptions within us.
00:30:37
Speaker
Finally, having created enough awareness about deceptions, we have landed on how knowing more enables us to be more conscious about how we show up for ourselves and the world. So basically awareness about who we are is actually key to how we show up. Did I miss something?
00:31:02
Speaker
We also talked about adaptive unconsciousness and adaptive unconscious. And, you know, of course, Mr. Rogers. And as we always, like you said, we will we will, of course, take down the names of the books that we're talking about.
00:31:22
Speaker
But yes, we hope that this was an interesting short discussion about something that hopefully is relevant to you in your work or life today. Thank you for listening and do write to us about what you thought of this conversation and any other topics that you would like us to explore in the next episode.
00:31:44
Speaker
Also, if this episode resonated with you in any way, we would appreciate it if you could take 30 seconds to follow us on our adventures, share it with someone who may need it and hit subscribe so you stay up to date. Thank you and goodbye.