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Unpacking Bias
81 Plays9 months ago
Bias refers to the systematic and often unconscious inclination or prejudice in favor of or against a particular person, group, or thing. It involves the distortion of judgment or decision-making processes, leading to unfair or unbalanced treatment of individuals or groups based on factors such as race, gender, age, religion, ethnicity, socioeconomic status, or other characteristics.
Join us on this engaging podcast as we discuss the various aspects of this most complex of concepts.
The Platinum Rule https://eller.arizona.edu/news/2022/04/how-better-understand-your-biases-biases-others1
Unconscious Gender Bias: Implication for Women's Leadership Development https://www.researchgate.net/publication/325914582_Unconscious_Gender_Bias_Implications_for_Women's_Leadership_Development
Ted Talk by J Marshall Shephard
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Overview
00:00:04
Speaker
Hi there. Welcome to How We Think, a podcast that takes a deeper look at coaching conversations, the biases and beliefs that show up in such conversations, and ideas that make you sit up and take notice of your own patterns, your behaviors, and any opportunities to change. I am Neha Indoria, and I have the amazing Bhavna Vasti with me. Hey Bhavna, how are you doing? I'm very well, Neha. Thank you for asking, and how are you?
00:00:30
Speaker
I'm good too. And as always, this is fun. We are on episode five.
Reflecting on Milestones
00:00:37
Speaker
Yeah. I'm looking forward to this conversation because you know, remember we said we'd record five episodes and then we are going to be telling people. I'm thinking after all these months of, you know, up and down, we are finally going to record our fifth.
00:00:58
Speaker
session and be out there in the world. So world, we are coming.
Understanding Bias and Its Origins
00:01:05
Speaker
Yeah. Today, folks, those of us who are listening and thank you so much for listening to us. We are talking on a cold, sunny February morning, and we're both based in Gurugram.
00:01:21
Speaker
Now, most likely you will have two responses to this statement. The ones like me, who have grown up here, would possibly remember with a certain amount of fondness in nostalgia, the joys of Delhi in this season. You know, it's cold enough to enjoy the sun, the air is crisp, and having peanuts shelled by a chatty grand mine, the sun is like a joy which is unmatched.
00:01:45
Speaker
Others may have zoned in on winter and Gurugram and instantly thought about pollution, air quality indexes, and the short but intense temperatures. This, my friends, is bias, our topic for today. Bias refers to a predisposition or prejudice that influences our perceptions, judgments, and actions. It often stems from ingrained societal attitudes, personal experiences, and cultural upbringing.
00:02:15
Speaker
What was your reaction to the statement Bhavna? It's such a relevant topic and one that looks underneath. It's not obvious, but it's important in the bigger scheme of things and has such a powerful impact on how we show up in the world, how we see the world and how eventually the world sees us.
00:02:42
Speaker
So bias actually refers to the systematic and often unconscious inclination or prejudice in favor of or against a particular person, group or thing.
00:02:54
Speaker
It involves the distortion of judgment or decision-making processes, thus leading to unfair or unbalanced treatment of individuals or groups based on factors such as race, gender, age, religion, ethnicity, socioeconomic status, and many other characteristics.
00:03:13
Speaker
And you know what, bias can actually manifest in various forms, including a person's attitudes, their beliefs, their stereotypes, their perceptions, behaviors, and eventually actions.
00:03:28
Speaker
It may also arise from personal experiences, cultural influences, social norms, or institutional structures.
Societal Impacts of Bias
00:03:36
Speaker
So eventually, what we're seeing is bias can have significant impact on individuals and communities contributing to discrimination, disparities, inequalities, in different domains, education, employment, health care.
00:03:55
Speaker
why this becomes relevant and important today is that recognizing and addressing bias becomes crucial for promoting fairness, equity, and inclusivity in society. Yeah, I hear you. There are so many things that come up for us.
00:04:18
Speaker
especially I think like it's 2024 and you better be aware, I think it comes to a lot of that. And so many things that you would be doing unconsciously, you don't even realize it. And then when, you know, someone else would point out, you'd realize that, yeah.
Tools and Techniques to Address Bias
00:04:37
Speaker
possibly it is a bias. In fact, I was looking at some video while we were doing some research. I will link up the description later. I don't remember the video name, but the ladies who were speaking, they came up with a good idea that when somebody comes up with a bias, it is a lot of times difficult for the person also to realize what is
00:05:06
Speaker
Like they have, they are displaying the bias. And so therefore within the team, what those guys have done is that they have simply called it as a.
00:05:16
Speaker
purple triangle or purple flag, so that it is, you know, inclusive enough. And if you and I are having a conversation, I will simply say, purple flag, so that you get a moment to understand that something's not sitting right. And you get an opportunity to address it, you know, whenever you might want to, and say, Hey, what, what did I miss? You know, what happened there? But the other thing that comes up for me when I was hearing you have now was that
00:05:47
Speaker
A lot of it also sounds like belief, right? Like how I have grown up has given me a set of beliefs and it is, how do I differentiate bias from belief? Yeah. What a good question that is. First off, the purple flag. Awesome. I think I'm going to start promoting the purple flag. Like it's such an intentional, a non-intrusive way to call out.
00:06:15
Speaker
Yeah, I was in fact, I was reminded of it when you know, when you were speaking and then I was trying to wrap my brain to remember the name, but then I also wanted to be present for the conversation. I will talk about it, but I will find the link and put it here later. Yeah, that'd be good. I think others can also look at that video and you know, make their own inferences and reflect on that. So we were talking about what's the difference between a bias and a belief.
00:06:46
Speaker
If you look at the definition of a belief, it's an acceptance of something existing or it being true, especially one without proof.
Deep Dive into Types of Bias
00:06:57
Speaker
So, you might believe something based on a fact, an opinion or an assumption. When you believe something, you might not have immediate personal knowledge, but you're satisfied that something is the way it is.
00:07:10
Speaker
So while we know what beliefs are in the context of today's conversation, we should explore a bit about belief bias. And belief bias refers to the tendency to evaluate the strength of an argument based on its plausibility. So instead of considering the validity of the argument itself, we usually rely on our prior knowledge and beliefs. So in other words, if an argument aligns with our belief, we tend to accept it.
00:07:40
Speaker
For example, if you came across a statement which said scientific studies have consistently shown that there is little nutritional difference between organic and conventional food. Now, because you firmly believe that all organic diet is superior to a conventional one, you will be skeptical and quickly dismiss the argument, even though it provides scientific evidence.
00:08:06
Speaker
Does that make sense? Yeah, it makes so much sense. I mean, there are so many things that you, you know, that you would come across. Like, for instance, all organic diet made me think of the carbs versus fat debate, you know, when keto came and took over the world, and suddenly carbs became your enemy. And now you still believe that carbs are not good for you, that
00:08:31
Speaker
all that you've eaten all your life does not matter, but now this belief and bias, this belief has taken over. So I like the idea of belief bias. And it also sounds like, you know, I mean, sometimes a belief will create biases, sometimes it will be the opposite, and they can be fairly intermingled. I think a good marker that could be used for bias is that bias is
00:08:56
Speaker
It's often unconscious and automatic. It does influence our thoughts, our perceptions and our actions, but largely it is without us realizing it. And it can also be deeply ingrained. I mean, you basically work on it. It basically works at you from an unconscious level, from a level of unconscious awareness and beliefs
00:09:20
Speaker
I'm tending to say that beliefs are conscious and they're reflective. They involve deliberate acceptance of certain ideas. Like in this keto example, you might have been living with carbs all your life, but now your belief tells you that carbs are not good.
00:09:39
Speaker
I also want to take a minute and look at the different kinds of biases that may exist. This is, I mean, it's not an exhaustive list, but I don't even think it can be one. But the big ones seem to be around cognitive bias, implicit bias and cultural bias. You know, it just seems like out of these three is where most things will stem.
00:10:00
Speaker
Yeah, totally, totally. It makes sense to actually talk about these three big ones because you're right, most of the things stem from here. So I want to take a cognitive bias first. Cognitive bias refers to systematic patterns of deviation from rationality in judgment or decision making processes.
00:10:23
Speaker
Now, it seems like a complex statement. Imagine this, this bias occurs when a brain processes information in a way that leads to subjective judgment or interpretation rather than objective analysis. Cognitive biases can influence perceptions, beliefs, decisions, often leading to errors or distortion in reasoning.
00:10:52
Speaker
If we next talk about implicit bias, also known as an unconscious bias, it refers to attitude to stereotypes that affect our understanding, actions and decisions in a very unconscious manner. They are kind of automatic, unintentional and often deeply ingrained. They shape our perceptions and behaviors without even a conscious awareness.
00:11:20
Speaker
Implicit biases mostly are formed based on socialization, cultural upbringing, personal experiences, and can influence how we perceive and interact with people.
00:11:38
Speaker
Lastly, we wanted to talk about cultural bias. It refers to the tendency to favor certain cultural norms, values or practices over others, often resulting in unfair or discriminatory treatment based on cultural differences.
00:11:55
Speaker
It's sneaky little suckers all of these buyers. Yes, yes, absolutely. You know, this cultural bias and I'm reminded of this north versus the south debate, you know, the north, the people from the north, they always have a certain chip on their shoulders saying, you know, we are how much smarter we are or how much clever we are. You know, we are street smart and all of that. That's that's a bias.
00:12:23
Speaker
And the people from the South are generally more naive, they're novices, they're more innocent. That's a bias, that's in the North. Yeah, and the South ones have the exact opposite of culture, like uncultured, uncouth people from the North. Yeah.
00:12:49
Speaker
I remember, you know, years ago when I was working for a company which is largely based out of South, and I met someone and we were like, okay, so what are you doing over the weekend? I didn't have kids then, so I was like, oh, I'm going for this party, this, that. What are you doing for the weekend? We are going for a Bharatna Temerus idol.
00:13:08
Speaker
And I was like, yeah, yes, I completely see what is going on here. Yeah, so invisible, very invisible. And you know, if you look at it in the modern day scenario, there are
00:13:24
Speaker
There are a lot of big incidents that can show how bias works invisibly. There are also obviously small ones. A usual suspect, I think, which also gets highlighted in our discussion is the us versus them bias.
00:13:42
Speaker
Even if you take away the cultural implications and look at something small every day that you do, one would think that it doesn't seem to impact your life, but it has far-reaching impact when you start to look at what it does collectively to a larger section of people.
00:14:03
Speaker
For instance, take the gender pay gap from this lens and don't even consider of taking into consideration your own gender. It could be a male or a female. But let's say you join the workforce and you're now a manager and a single female joins your team.
00:14:21
Speaker
displace potential, you work well together, life is good. But now almost unconsciously, of course, you're thinking, will this change when she gets married? I remember having been asked that question, you know, that when is marriage on the horizon? And
00:14:41
Speaker
She did now you have added that lens to your evaluation of her work without nothing's happened here. She's doing well, but that lens has now been added. Let's say she does get married and you know, luckily life doesn't change. She's doing what was required of her and everything is fine, but now your thought is
00:15:04
Speaker
Is she planning to have children? When will she plan to have children? And how much of the weightage will you give to that thought while assessing her from promotion?
00:15:13
Speaker
That is where you might want to take a minute and see how much weightage you actually give it, whether consciously or unconsciously. And it builds slowly, right? Slowly, the bias will keep blinking. You will keep adding layers to it. And your experiences will further shape, even though ostensibly you are trying and you're telling yourself that you are trying hard for equal treatment.
00:15:38
Speaker
So true and so real. And you know, I was I was reading this study. There's a research that there are these two professors by the name of Susan R. Madsen and Maureen S. Andrade. And they're professors in the University of Utah Valley. And they have done this beautiful research on unconscious gender bias theory.
00:16:07
Speaker
Oh, okay. Yeah, very, very interesting. And it's a big paper and
00:16:13
Speaker
It's very revealing on one end. And I think much like how you suggested, we put the TED talk link here. I think I'm going to give you the link and we can put that as well in the notes of this conversation. So this research focuses on conscious or deliberate biases towards women, particularly in workplace settings and has led to the study of unconscious bias.
00:16:42
Speaker
Unconscious gender bias occurs when a person consciously rejects gender stereotypes, but still unconsciously makes evaluations based on stereotypes. So can you see the dichotomy here? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, the powerful yet often invisible barriers to women's advancement that arise from cultural beliefs about gender, as well as workplace structures, practices and patterns of interaction
00:17:12
Speaker
inadvertently favor men.
Strategies for Acknowledging Bias
00:17:15
Speaker
And there is that whole study. Yeah. Inadvertently favor men, that is some powerful stuff. I mean, as women, of course, we've experienced these nuances, you know, it just, it becomes so layered that it becomes difficult for you to, to probably separate out of it, a lot of it. At the workplace, there are a lot of these
00:17:37
Speaker
places that I think play in the heads of women as well. You know what it seems like is that unless we develop a bubble with no human interaction, some good others bad. What we're trying to say here is that the idea is not that you shouldn't have them, it is to accept their presence and move towards
00:17:59
Speaker
Can you and those around you, let's say in your team, figure out a common language to address them. Of course, the big ones, they'll take time. It is not probably something that can simply be addressed in a workplace environment because there is so much else at play. Education, awareness, all of it has to happen on a much larger scale.
00:18:23
Speaker
But at your end, the first step and, you know, we always in I think in every topic that we have discussed, we are back to this. But the first step is awareness. You know, I read this line in this book called The Secret. Now, the book asks a lot of its readers, it can be challenging. But this one line that I picked up was, are you aware
00:18:45
Speaker
And all that you're being asked to do is to keep a check on this very simple exercise. Every once in a while, take a pause from whatever you're doing, look up in the distance and ask yourself, are you aware? And, you know, if you've ever practiced it, I mean, Bhana, you are one of the most talented people I know.
00:19:04
Speaker
When I first started practicing it, it was just that, you know, just a whoosh of information would sort of hit you because you have, you'll be looking at a screen and then now suddenly your perspective has increased. And it just it just helps you shift your perspective little by little in directions you may not have considered before.
00:19:29
Speaker
What you're actually talking about is very intentional self-reflection. So this, are you aware? If we just leave it at are you aware, then you are, like you said, it's a overload, overwhelm of all of the things that you are now, that are coming to you. But if you look at a very intentional way of doing it,
00:19:56
Speaker
As coaches, we say, you know, the power of question and the question has to be precise and concise.
Exploring and Reflecting on Personal Biases
00:20:02
Speaker
And are you aware is a very precise question, but there is still some ambiguity in it. So if we imagine, if we also added, are you aware of, if a bias is at play, are you aware of how you're feeling?
00:20:23
Speaker
about this particular situation? Are you aware of what is the impact that you're having in this situation? Are you aware of how you are contributing to this situation? So it becomes a very intentional self-reflection.
00:20:43
Speaker
I like that phrase, intentional self-reflection. Yeah. The other way, another thing that I came across one of these days, I was reading an article. This was from University of Arizona. I don't know. It's like you were saying down the rabbit hole, you start reading about one thing and you found this very nice article. And I think I'm going to share the link also to that article. It talks about many such things.
00:21:10
Speaker
This talked about focusing on the platinum rule. And we've heard about the golden rule and the golden rule is like, treat others how you want to be treated. But now the platinum rule is, it focuses on treating people how they want to be treated. So treating people how they want to be treated, which means you keep your bias assigned.
00:21:39
Speaker
You don't matter. What matters is how they want to be treated. So golden rule, very good. But let's move on to the platinum rule. Just to say, let's treat others and how they want to be treated. If I want to be treated special,
00:21:57
Speaker
Well, you better see me spiritually. Yes. Does it make sense? Noted and underlined. Yeah. You make so much sense. And another way I think to understand your own biases and the biases of others is to commit to live with a discovery mindset.
00:22:23
Speaker
Explorative at all times and it requires us to recognize that when something is different from us or what our choice would be.
00:22:36
Speaker
There is obviously the opportunity to say, hey, this is not me. But there is also an opportunity to say, what is this? And you might discover a unique strategy. And of course, along the way, there will be some amount of discomfort because it is different from you. But that doesn't make it
00:23:00
Speaker
doesn't qualify it as bad as good, it is just different. And I think that's what that's, that's, that's good. That's what could allow you to bring in something new, without giving up on what you have. And the other thing I wanted to talk about was to understand your own bias first. In the workplace, or even in a social sector, their social setup, there are always a lot of biases at play. And it's
00:23:31
Speaker
You have to accept the fact that just like how your biases while being at play do not necessarily make your intention different, at least not conscious intention. Others would be working the same way as well. And the best way to overcome these biases is to speak to somebody, have someone who's like a trusted friend, a confidant, and talk through your thoughts.
00:23:58
Speaker
Because when you're able to express your unconscious opinion with someone who's trusted, just the act of speaking out loud might help you identify the bias which you have not thought of. And once you're able to identify them, then you can move forward to overcoming them. The best thing about it is that when you're in that trusted space, you're able to think out loud and see the patterns your thoughts create. And the feedback from the other person allows you to broaden your views and essentially
00:24:27
Speaker
It gives you a new perspective. Yeah, totally makes sense. But you know what? The other ask now, when we're doing all of this is actually having the courage to do it. Oh, yeah. And using that courage as an accelerator. Yeah.
00:24:52
Speaker
when we are questioning ourselves, when we are trying to understand our own biases, when we are trying to gather more information about what are some of the biases that others may be starting from or using as a lens. We have to be courageous. We have to value courage. We have to embrace courage. At times, we have to request courage. And the writer is, be human through it all.
00:25:22
Speaker
While that may appear to be significant and perhaps complex, it is a settling of the mind and recognition of opportunity. Bias is an unconscious posture and easier to identify in others. So, the first step of courage occurs within us, asking ourselves the question, why do I believe this? What did my family or community tell me about myself?
00:25:51
Speaker
What do I believe of others? And why? And of course, you know, at the end of the day, allowing grace and space to learn, not just for yourself, but for others. The two thoughts that came to me was that one, and we addressed this a little earlier, that biases, when you start looking at the layers, it seems untenable.
00:26:15
Speaker
to get away from bias. Because it is, there are so many nuances. And the analogy that came up to me came to me was
00:26:26
Speaker
A little different. The analogy that came to me was Alice in Wonderland. You know, all was fine in Alice's world. She was living her own life until she went down that rabbit hole and discovered that there was so much that she did not know existed. So at this outset, it might seem that it's too big.
00:26:49
Speaker
But as we were speaking about, as we were discussing the steps, the second thought that we would like you to mull over is that this is the nature of awareness at all times. It will bring a wealth of information forward. However, awareness is also the key. Explore that. Be mindful of the various aspects, some of which we have spoken about, and see how it fits for you.
00:27:17
Speaker
If at the end of the day, one approaches every situation in person with an exploratory bias, it becomes so much simpler. You know what? At this point, I'm reflecting whether we have given too much information in this talk to our listeners. And just to address that, I think what I'm going to do is I'm going to sum up this conversation. We started talking about bias and how
00:27:46
Speaker
it is very unintentional, it is very unconscious and how it is relevant and has power. We talked about various ways that it shows up and various ways because of which it exists. So whether it is societal, whether it is cultural, whether it is unconscious, cognitive, implicit,
00:28:09
Speaker
We talked about all of that and what they actually mean. We further went down and talked about these studies that deal with the gender bias, which seems to be one of the key things that me and you both favor and is important to us.
Methods to Address Bias
00:28:28
Speaker
From there, we talked about
00:28:33
Speaker
Five things, one is practicing intentional self-reflection. The second one was the platinum rule, treat others the way they want to be treated. While at all times having a discovery mindset to watch out for the opportunity and understanding your bias by talking through to people that are trusted, creating more awareness as you go along the way. And finally,
00:29:02
Speaker
most importantly using courage as an accelerator.
Closing and Audience Engagement
00:29:07
Speaker
This is where we are. Why? Of course it is. Change doesn't happen in a day just because we've created this wonderful talk. You've listened to the wonderful talk. It does not mean from tomorrow the biases won't play. But what it means is that somewhere at the back of your mind there's a little voice that is now awake that will prompt you
00:29:33
Speaker
send you to that discovery mode and ask those questions of how am I contributing? How is this bias contributing to this situation, to this conversation, to this event?
00:29:45
Speaker
Please do take a look at all the links that we have added in the description. I will also remember the one that I kind of spoke about and add that there as well. Take a look at whichever bits sort of resonated with you and see what you would like to take out from there.
00:30:05
Speaker
I also, you know, there was an interesting TED talk I found from this gentleman called Jay Marshall Sheppard. He's a mutual artist. And he has taken global warming as the topic for his TED talk and used global warming to explain bias. So I thought it was really fun way to look at it. And that link you will find in the description as well.
00:30:32
Speaker
But enough talk for now. Probably is a good place for us to pause. What do you think about that? Yeah, I think it's a good place to pause until next time. Thank you all you lovely people for listening to us to write to us about what you thought of this conversation and any other topic that you would like to explore in the next episodes. And if this episode resonated with you in any way,
00:30:59
Speaker
We would appreciate if you take 30 seconds to follow us on our adventures. You could share it with someone who may need it. And of course, hit subscribe so you stay up to date. Thank you and goodbye. Goodbye.