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Autism & Puberty - The Terrors Of High School w/Actuallyaspling
176 Plays5 years ago
What is high school like for an autistic teenager? What are the differences between the neurotypical and autistic experience of puberty? Why are autistic people targets for bullying and isolation?
In this episode of the Thoughty Auti Podcast, Thomas talks to Victoria Ellen (@actuallyaspling) about her experiences at secondary school and how puberty influenced her life.
We chat about our commonalities in tastes, our experiences with the various physical differences that occurred, the emotions, the masking and even a bit on romance at school!
I hope everyone is coping alright with the current COVID-19 situation, it can be a difficult time of transitioning... and I think many of us will find that difficult. Set up your routine, add in some variety, make sure to exercise and I'm sure we can pull through all of this craziness together!
Thank you for being such a loyal listener, I appreciate all the support you give me!!!
If you have an exciting or interesting story and want to appear on the next podcast, please contact me at: aspergersgrowth@gmail.com
Victoria's Links:-
► Blog - https://actuallyaspling.wordpress.com/link-directory/
► Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/actuallyaspling/
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Channel Merchandise - https://teespring.com/stores/aspergers-growth
Support via Patreon! - https://www.patreon.com/aspergersgrowth
Social Media ♥ -
☼ Facebook - Aspergers Growth
☼ Twitter/Instagram - @aspergersgrowth
♫ Listen On -
Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/6vjXgCB7Q3FwtQ2YqPjnEV
Apple Podcasts - https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/thoughty-auti-the-autism-mental-health-podcast/id1470689079
Music -
♫ Track: [Chill Music] Ikson - Reverie [No Copyright Music]
Advert Track: Empty Parking Lot - Colours Of Illusion [Epidemic Sound]
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Transcript
Introduction to the 40 Auti Podcast
00:00:07
Speaker
Good day, my lovely listeners. You are listening to the 40 Auti Podcast. Tune in every week to explore inspiring stories and insightful information that dive headfirst into the world of autism and mental health. With all those tantalizing tongue twisters out of the way, let's get into the show.
00:00:41
Speaker
Hello, and welcome back to the Autism Podcast, the 40 Autie Podcast, of course. My name is Thomas Henley, and thank you so much for joining me and my lovely guest today to talk about autism and puberty.
Discussing Puberty and Psychology with Victoria
00:00:58
Speaker
Yes, it's something that I'm not particularly generally comfortable about talking about, and I've already explained to my guest, but I will try my best, of course, for you listeners out there. Today, I am joined with by Victoria from the Actually Aspling Instagram account. How are you doing, Victoria? Yeah, I'm fine. Thank you. Thank you for inviting me on the podcast.
Victoria's Autism Diagnosis Journey
00:01:24
Speaker
No problem. I think this is, as I've said, it's something that sort of kind of makes me a little bit red-faced to talk about, but you have had a lot of experience with psychology. So you're a psychology grad student, aren't you? Yes, yeah. And you did your project sort of around that kind of issue. So I think it would be a good little conversation to have.
00:01:50
Speaker
Yeah, I'm kind of used to it now. I had to ask people these uncomfortable questions as part of my research. So you kind of get used to it after a while. So would you like to give everybody a little bit of a background into who you are, when you were diagnosed, the kind of things that you enjoy doing in the workplace or not enjoy doing in the workplace?
00:02:13
Speaker
Yeah so my name's Vicki or Aspling as some people call me. I was diagnosed when I was 25 and that was in my second year of university which was kind of weird. I'd always thought I'd been autistic and my mum always kind of thought it as well but actually finally someone telling you that it makes a huge difference and it made a huge difference in terms of like university support and stuff as well.
00:02:42
Speaker
What do I enjoy in the workplace? I don't really know. What do you do in the workplace? That's a bad question. I don't currently work because I've just finished my master's degree. I volunteer at a psychology service that works with looked after children and adopted children and foster carers and things like that. So I do that at the moment, which is incredible. It's a great place to work.
00:03:09
Speaker
Wow, that's amazing. How is that for you? What is the typical workday? It's really nice. I only do a couple of days a week at the moment because it's all I can manage but it's local and the staff are just incredible. They're so understanding and accommodating and
00:03:31
Speaker
They like to use my ideas and we have like really good conversations and meetings and stuff. And it's just, it's a really, really nice place to work. So I just do a lot of admin for them, like typing up documents and helping them with like social media and their YouTube and stuff like that. So generally I'm in the office, I'm helping with training or I'm in the office on the computer doing stuff that I'm incredibly comfortable with. So it's really, really nice.
00:03:58
Speaker
Brilliant and do you get to have sort of like one to one or work with the children or is it more just working on the social media side of things?
Volunteering in Psychology Services
00:04:09
Speaker
It's more admin based at the moment. There are opportunities to help with like I do training with the parents sometimes like I sit in and sometimes contribute to that but at the moment it is just mostly admin stuff.
00:04:23
Speaker
Very cool. I like that you're having some impact. Is it mostly the autistic sort of children that you help with or is it more based around your degree and stuff?
00:04:38
Speaker
It's not really for autistic children. They do training for kind of complex needs and stuff, but it's mainly looking at children who are in care, who are adopted, those who have emotional trauma, kind of things like that, and supporting parents.
00:04:54
Speaker
I'm currently, well I mean obviously not currently because we are recording this in the midst of an isolation but my job is sort of like special needs teaching and stuff so I feel like we've got sort of a little connection there with the working with kids and stuff like that. Yeah definitely.
00:05:20
Speaker
Do you work with like adolescents and stuff or is it more like younger kids that the service works with? It varies. They do work with younger children but they do work with adolescents as well. They have kind of like, they had an animation group and they have like music therapy groups and they do circus skills. They do absolutely all sorts and cater for literally everyone.
00:05:45
Speaker
So yeah, our podcast today is on autism and puberty, of course, as I take a little breath before I say.
Childhood Experiences and Autism
00:05:57
Speaker
What was life like for you before puberty? Like what was Vicky before puberty? I honestly can't really remember much from my childhood, apart from what I've been told from my parents.
00:06:14
Speaker
Apparently I was really passive as a child but because I was actually adopted so my parents hadn't had any experience of having a child and they just thought it was normal that I would just sit there and just like not do anything which is what I do a lot of the time now actually but I didn't have
00:06:35
Speaker
very many friends. I had one friend in primary school and I spent a lot of my time when I was younger just staying at home and playing with toys. That's all I did. But yeah, I honestly, I can't remember much from when I was a child. It's like a blur, really. I empathise with that quite a lot because I find that
00:06:58
Speaker
I really just don't have a good memory of, I have memory of key events, but most people have blurred, fragmented memories of their life as a child, but it feels like my recall of anything before secondary school is just gone. Apart from very key life experiences,
00:07:28
Speaker
and like upsets or happiness or all that, but I do find it hard. I don't know why that is. No, I completely relate to that. It's just like, it's hard to explain. Like you said, there's key things that I can remember, but it's like they don't all, they're not connected and things. And sometimes I find that I recall events and people will say to me, well, it didn't actually happen like that. So it's like I've kind of made it up in my head a little bit.
00:07:57
Speaker
Well, yeah, I mean, I'm reading a book currently which is, I can't remember the name, it's about the self and it's basically like a mix between philosophy and psychology and stuff and they did say that memories are actually very flexible so they can be, it's not like they're set in stone in your brain, it's every time that you recall a memory,
00:08:27
Speaker
your brain tries to pull it together from your experiences, and every time that you do that, it gets a little bit more untrue, if that makes sense, less reliable. That's really interesting. And that obviously causes a little bit of anxiety in me, because it's like, what am I supposed to do? I'm going to have to write down everything, everything in my life. I don't know.
00:08:55
Speaker
In terms of your personality, were you very sociable
Social Anxiety and Fitting In
00:09:01
Speaker
at school or did you, obviously you said that you were a bit sort of reclusive, is that the right word?
00:09:10
Speaker
Yeah, I wasn't introverted. I'm so different now. When I was a child, I had a great imagination and I used to play with my toys at home and line them up and pretend to be a teacher. But when it came to actually being in school and socialising with my peers, I found that incredibly difficult.
00:09:30
Speaker
My mom said that when I was really young in primary school, I used to walk around the edge of the playground on my own and just kind of watch people because I didn't feel like I could kind of place myself into the environment, into the situation and kind of interact with people.
00:09:49
Speaker
Yeah, that is very interesting because my mum's also told me about what I was like when she'd take me to new events and stuff. So she told me one day where she taught me to play football and I'd stand at the side watching the other kids for about an hour before I joined in. Do you think that's due to autism in some respects? Because I feel like
00:10:19
Speaker
Obviously, understanding social interactions and people is generally a little bit harder and especially in childhood. So maybe our sitting at the side and observing people was trying to understand them and make sure that they're not going to attack us or something. I think so. It's kind of standing back and analyzing the situation.
00:10:43
Speaker
Yeah. Um, for me, I wouldn't know how to go and join in. I wouldn't know what to say or if it was appropriate, like what's appropriate to say. So I'd just sit back and think, Oh, well, let's analyze the situation first and listen to what they're talking about kind of thing and then go in and see. Yeah. So. It's definitely more of like a methodical kind of.
00:11:04
Speaker
Approaching like a group of chimpanzees kind of thing. Yeah It's deciding whether you want to go ahead and like you don't want to make a fool of yourself So it's like do you go in like straight away or do you just like run away? Yeah, and
00:11:19
Speaker
I've seen a lot online lately about people saying like, if you've got anxiety, the best thing to do is tackle it head on. I'm like, don't avoid situations, but I'm all for avoiding situations because I don't really care. I'd rather stay at home and like avoid something than have to deal with the anxiety. Fair enough. I think there is, for me, there's always been an element of sort of graded exposure, like trying to
00:11:48
Speaker
ease myself into it rather than plunge myself into the deep end. And I think over the past two, three years, I've been sort of, I went through this little transformation of writing about my experiences, writing about what I think about interactions that I've had and people and how people work and stuff. And it has been very much like a scientific degree-like aspect to me.
00:12:17
Speaker
getting into the social world. But yeah, I think in terms of myself at childhood, I was very strange, like the contrast between myself younger and in secondary school, because I was always extremely hyperactive
00:12:44
Speaker
Obviously, I lacked the inherent sort of understanding of, you know, other people's experiences and stuff and emotions that I have and other people have. But I was very giddy. I was always smiling. I would always I would approach people, especially adults, and sort of be smiling and try to have conversations with them and stuff. So I was I was always like I was I was a very extroverted kid.
00:13:14
Speaker
And I did have particular friends that I went to that I was comfortable with most of the time. But I did at that age try to make a lot of effort in terms of socializing and stuff like that. And I think that's partly due to my mum as well. She's just an amazing human being and she supported me a lot with it.
00:13:36
Speaker
Mums are. Mums generally are amazing. Yeah, definitely. I don't think I'd be the person I am today if it wasn't for her and she's brilliant. I love her. She's currently got a really high job in the
00:13:56
Speaker
a sort of special needs sector. She is managing, I can't remember the name, the official name, but she basically manages like a massive part of special education for sort of like Middlesbrough area. Oh wow. She's recently stepped up to that job and she obviously, I live in Harrogate, which is sort of a place in North Yorkshire and
00:14:23
Speaker
Her house is obviously in North York, so she's currently staying at her girlfriend's and she's away from home, which is quite hard, but she's doing well and she's a stressful job, obviously. Yeah, she sounds amazing, though. Yeah, she's lovely. She actually quit her previous job because there was a particular incident with
00:14:49
Speaker
parents of a child that she was working with that fought to bring in sort of like an outsourced way of teaching and working with autistic children. And it went completely against her morals. Yeah, I understand that. So she actually quit her job. And it was, you know, it was quite a high up job at the time as well. But she decided to quit it. And, you know, she's just, she's an amazing person.
00:15:18
Speaker
It's nice in a way to kind of hear that, not that she quit her job, but the fact that she didn't agree with something, she felt strong enough to say, no, I don't agree with that, I'm going to quit. We don't have enough of that. No, definitely. Honestly, I don't know what I'd do if I was in her shoes, but I'm
00:15:38
Speaker
I do idolise her a lot. She's a lovely, amazing person. She has the interest of everybody before herself. So she's a beautiful human being. That's really nice. Cool. So we talked a little bit about life before puberty. When did you start noticing changes in yourself? Like what were the main ones and how did they affect your life?
00:16:08
Speaker
I'd say in primary school, like physical changes, for example, my height, I was always quite tall and it was like a cycle. I was really clumsy, so I'd always fall over and then I'd get really bad like leg pains. So it's like growing pains. And then a couple of days later, I'd like grow a bit, like I'd be taller and that kind of happened
00:16:33
Speaker
every couple of months so that really stood out because it was really painful and I didn't understand it when I was a child.
Physical Changes and Puberty
00:16:41
Speaker
I'd also say when I first got my period as well was a big change but that was like in secondary school and that was really confusing and it still kind of confuses me a bit but and there's loads of sensory issues with that and anxiety and stuff but I'd say they were the main things that I noticed
00:17:00
Speaker
Yeah, so I imagine that obviously the female sanitary products won't be particularly comfortable. No, oh no. Did you have many sensory issues with them? Yes, oh god, my mum. Seriously, I used to frustrate the hell out of her because
00:17:23
Speaker
I'd go to the toilet every half hour and I'd just say to mum, I can't do it, I can't do it, it's not right, it's uncomfortable. And I'd end up breaking down in the toilets in a public place and she'd get so embarrassed and she'd hate me for it. But I always used to just remember, they were just awful, absolutely awful. I obviously don't have much experience of that kind of thing.
00:17:50
Speaker
most of the changes in me, which I can sort of empathize with the growing pains, because I'm quite tall as well. So it's definitely not a very comfortable experience. Other than that, I think, you know, acne and... What's it gonna say?
00:18:14
Speaker
acne and the emotions. The emotions were the big thing for me that affected my life from puberty. Something else that's also in the book that I'm reading at the moment says that when we are in adolescence, a part of our prefrontal cortex, which is
00:18:37
Speaker
sort of implicated in how other people perceive us is like hyperactive. So we've become extremely self-conscious about everything. Yeah. Oh God. Yeah, definitely. I can relate to that. It's like when you go into high school, suddenly everything changes.
00:18:57
Speaker
And you're so aware of everything and everyone around you. And it's just that I'm paranoid anyway, but I always thought that, oh my God, the staring at me and oh my God, they're just like, I'm so paranoid. You feel like you're always at the center of attention and everyone's always judging you all the time. And yeah, I understand that.
00:19:19
Speaker
Definitely. My mum always had to say to me, you're staring at people. And it's like, I'm staring at them because they're staring at me. And it's like, no, they're not staring at you. You just think they are. I do get that quite a bit. Sometimes I get it when I'm particularly anxious in sort of day to day anyway.
00:19:39
Speaker
I think, yeah, also another thing, I think that there was a big change for me was the voice, of course, the voice breaking. My voice started breaking a little bit before everybody else. I think most people, the voice broke, you know, about a year later. So our mom was quite early.
00:20:07
Speaker
And I remember my... Me and my brother used to love making these like really high pitched noises all the time and I remember at one point I was out of the realization came that I couldn't do all these like opera style symphonies with my brother. No, I couldn't. My voice started going, hi! You know, just...
00:20:36
Speaker
people as well they like to if you like develop like quicker than them or before then they like to point it out as well and it's like yeah I'm aware of that thanks I don't need you to point it out for me
00:20:51
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. And, you know, all of the other physical characteristics of being a guy in terms of like facial hair and stuff. I didn't really get much of that, but I just used to grow really big sideburns. And that was obviously not fun. I didn't grow any hair like in any of the good places. It just went under my chin and ran the size of my face.
00:21:18
Speaker
That was horrible as well. I couldn't handle the itchiness all the time because it was kind of at that length when I was at that age that it was too itchy. I can imagine. And with it being on your face as well. Yeah. Yeah, I wouldn't like that.
Heightened Emotions During Puberty
00:21:36
Speaker
Were there any sort of other emotional changes that occurred when you started to go through puberty?
00:21:46
Speaker
I just, I'm a very emotional person anyway, but I think things got a lot worse, especially in high school, because I felt so different to everyone else. And I was the weirdo in my class who didn't know how to respond to people who didn't know how to socialize. And that hit me really hard. It really did. I'd come home and I'd just like explode because all this emotion.
00:22:14
Speaker
just like built up and built up and then it just kind of, it just, it was really hard, really hard. When I started to go through, you know, sort of secondary school, you know, year, year eight, year nine, year ten, that's when
00:22:30
Speaker
I think to be honest, the most of the emotional issues that I had at the time was due to other people. Other people were already quite hard to understand and work around and socialize with. But when they hit that year nine, year 10 kind of age, it's like, I described it before as
00:23:01
Speaker
Now, one summer holiday, everyone in the school got together and decided these strange social rules and ways of behaving and did not invite me and then came back and implemented that into school. That is how it feels, yeah. It really is, just absolutely... It is crazy just how much people change and I struggled massively with that.
00:23:30
Speaker
especially with the more of the kids that caused a lot of friction in terms of like bullies and all that. And it got a little bit more complicated and difficult and yeah.
00:23:48
Speaker
I understand that. I was bullied quite a bit in high school and I could never understand why because back when I was in high school, everybody had MSN messenger, right? And I didn't have it. So I came into, I'd come into school the next day and to find out that people had been talking about me on messenger. And I was like,
00:24:09
Speaker
one I don't know what messenger is and two I just don't understand but I think I was just misunderstood because people didn't understand me and they didn't make an effort to either it was just a case of oh well you're weird you don't fit in you're not like the rest of us we're not going to bother we'll just like call your names instead you need to try and fit in with us because because this is the norm that's it and that's why I think now as an adult
00:24:37
Speaker
I kind of hide things a lot better because you kind of have to when you're in high school. Yes, definitely. I think high school is, it was absolutely horrible for me. It was really difficult. I developed a lot of mental health issues during my time there. I developed a lot of dissociation type disorders.
Social Challenges in High School
00:25:04
Speaker
because of not being able to know how to cope with the stress of people. So the way that I cope with it was I would sort of...
00:25:14
Speaker
Which is, I guess is where I can sort of talk about the contrast between how it was in secondary school. I think I became a lot more secluded. I didn't talk much. I had minimal conversational skills, mostly because I didn't understand and it was, I tended more to just stay quiet and dissociate rather than interact, especially when
00:25:44
Speaker
there was a lot of emotions and confrontation involved. That's it and you've got the social dynamics that are always changing and then you've got all the like schoolwork on top of that. Yep. So there's a lot to kind of contend with. Definitely and I do think learning to sort of adapt to a neurotypical society is basically like having another degree like
00:26:13
Speaker
It requires that much effort that is ridiculous. And it kind of, it becomes normal as well. You shouldn't have to kind of hide or try and fit in, but when you're in high school, it's like you do it to survive. Yeah, you do it so that you're not ridiculed and picked on every day and isolated from your peers. Yeah, definitely. High school was particularly difficult for me.
00:26:42
Speaker
So this brings us nicely onto the next question. Did you notice any differences in others around you at school? Do you think that your experience of puberty was different to other people's? I'd say yes, but from the research I've done now I think
00:27:07
Speaker
we all go through puberty and it's not nice for anyone but I think being autistic there are added kind of dimensions to that there's added kind of like sensory issues and there's communication difference and there's all these other things that are kind of built on it makes it so much worse and people don't realize that because I think all my friends all the people that I hung around with kind of developed like physically
00:27:35
Speaker
way faster than I did and I didn't understand that all my friends had like boobs and I was just like they're like I don't have any I don't have any of this and I didn't wear a bra for ages and because I didn't need to but it was one of those things socially that wasn't acceptable and there was so much peer pressure to develop quicker which is crazy and I'd just be like I'd be like I'd be like staring at them like
00:28:05
Speaker
It's like, I don't have that.
Social Pressures of Puberty
00:28:07
Speaker
And it's like, Oh, well, you're weird. You're not like us. You can't join in our conversations anymore. Cause we're going to talk about all these things that you don't know about kind of thing. So it's kind of like being isolated from everyone else. Another aspect of isolation. Yeah.
00:28:29
Speaker
Did you find that your sensory difficulties became more, like what kind of sensory difficulties do you have now just as a little bit of a baseline? I don't like bright lights and like
00:28:44
Speaker
like certain lighting and stuff because I've got epilepsy as well so that triggers that. I'm really sensitive to certain noises and smells but the main thing is like touch. I'm really, really sensitive to touch because people kind of like give me hugs or like touch me and it goes through me. My husband always says to me it's like it's not actually painful, it's more of a discomfort but to me it's pain. I'm so sensitive to things like that.
00:29:14
Speaker
Especially like light touches. Yeah, I'm like, oh my God, that really hurt. And it's like, it's just because I'm so sensitive to it. And I'm more aware of that now as an adult than I was when I was younger. I'd noticed all these things and I was aware of them, but I never really knew that's what it was.
00:29:36
Speaker
And how did the puberty affect those aspects of sensitivity and all that? It made it worse, I'd say. Especially with my physical development and stuff, because I had the growing pains and I was so aware of everything that was going on. I didn't understand it, but I could feel it and I was so sensitive to that. It was a nightmare.
00:30:03
Speaker
yeah i don't think that my sensory stuff changed i think it was just um uh obviously the highest the secondary school environment is a little bit more noisy and boisterous and in your face but as compared to like primary school so i think that aspect of school was difficult for me i used to i used to have this this place called the bridge which is basically like the
00:30:32
Speaker
sort of support place of the school. I was allowed to sort of go in and sit in the corner in there during the busy times. So like after lessons or before lessons. So I could sort of cope with my emotional issues a bit easier. So I think- See, I didn't have any of that because I didn't have like a label or anything. I wasn't allowed to do anything like that. And it would have helped massively, I think.
00:31:01
Speaker
just those little things. I can imagine. It is really tough because most of the people that come onto this podcast do say that they sort of get diagnosed a lot later in life. And I think if people were more aware of autism and had had an idea of the kind of traits, then they would
00:31:24
Speaker
sort of go for diagnosis earlier in life because I feel like having just that level of understanding from the teachers and the people around you and the parents and stuff makes life just a little bit more easy.
00:31:40
Speaker
it really does because i've noticed the difference being in university one of my lecturers he specializes in autism and it's what he's like known for and what i first told him i think i'm autistic and he said yeah and since diagnosis he just said yeah just having just having help and having someone who understands is really nice because i had an incident in secondary school um with my coursework and i took
00:32:07
Speaker
options and classes that I thought I'd enjoy and one of my teachers took me to one side and said to me look I don't think you're gonna pass and I was like right okay and then she's like do you want me to phone your parents and tell them for you and I was like
00:32:24
Speaker
No, I really don't. But thanks for telling me I'm going to fail. And I was just like, if I'd have known earlier, and if I'd have actually got the support that I needed, and there was that level of understanding like I have now, it would have made all the difference. So it's not even just like, as we've talked about the mental health systems around autism, it's also the teaching, like we learn in such a different
00:32:53
Speaker
different way and the classes where I had teachers who are very attentive to my different style of learning, those are the classes that I did really, really well in and the classes that I had no help, I did. Absolutely terrible. You really notice the difference, don't you?
00:33:15
Speaker
Mm-hmm. And I found mostly through A-levels that the classes where the teachers didn't really get on my wavelength that I just went through the textbooks. I just learned from the textbooks. They told us what the lesson was about. I showed that I was listening and then I just read the textbook because... Yeah. Because obviously just it does make a massive difference depending on the teaching style.
Impact of Teaching Styles on Learning
00:33:46
Speaker
That's it. I had one subject and I had two teachers that were so different. There was one who was amazing and he really understood me and he saw my potential and he helped me develop and do really well. But same subject, different teacher. We'd go to the class and she's just like, yeah, I'm going to take my shoes off and go and sit in the office and drink a cup of coffee.
00:34:12
Speaker
do what you want. And it's just so different that the teaching styles, it was one class, but two different kind of approaches. And results wise, having that more kind of supported approach and the teacher, I did so much better. Even though it was kind of one class and you got the same mark, it was just kind of different way of going about it.
00:34:40
Speaker
Yeah, there is a very vivid memory in my head where I had this maths teacher I was in. We sort of had sets. Did you have sets in my... Oh, I was bottom set for maths. Well, I was in set two, which is one below the high achieving kind of people. Okay, yeah.
00:35:10
Speaker
I had this teacher who was very old school kind of style of teaching. You can't say anything in class or you're in trouble.
00:35:24
Speaker
He was not a nice chap towards me. He didn't particularly understand. There was many incidences where he said, okay, right, if you've finished your work, you can talk. And so I just obviously hear that and just be like, okay, right, I'm gonna do it as quick as possible. And I do all the work, start talking, he'd get annoyed at me. I'd say that I've done my work and then he'd ask me the questions and then tell him.
00:35:53
Speaker
But then for some reason, because obviously he's so rigid and, which is kind of quite funny, isn't it? He's so rigid and unmoving in his teaching style. He moved me down a set. Oh, wow.
00:36:08
Speaker
So the best achievers in that set that I was in would get A's and stuff if they're lucky. Maybe most of them got a B. And I always moved down the set into another class which was a lot different, a lot more relaxed, a lot more of just go about your work, chat to each other, try and work through it. Teacher's gonna come round and help you out and stuff.
00:36:37
Speaker
And the teacher that I had there was amazing and supportive and really nice guy. So I did the exams, of course, and I came out of an A in maths.
Academic Journey and Mathematics
00:36:50
Speaker
Wow. And obviously the set that I was in, it was more C to B range. So I remember going to the office to collect my results and knowing that I've done well, because the teacher had obviously approached me and said, you've done really well, Tom.
00:37:07
Speaker
And I went and that teacher in the highest set was there as well. So I was just like, you know, we did exchange many ways. You just said, oh, well done, Tom. I was like, thank you very much. And a smile on my face walked out. I was just like, yeah. Rubbing it in a little bit. Take that. You think I'm an idiot. That's it though, they do though. I had so many different maths teachers and all of them
00:37:36
Speaker
they couldn't control the class and everyone misbehaved. I remember once me and my friend were just like messing and I remember hitting her over the head with a maths textbook because I thought that people would like me if I kind of joined in and then I got sent out of the classroom and then I felt like really bad but it's like
00:37:58
Speaker
I never learned anything in maths anyway. And it took me seven attempts to actually get my GCSE in maths. But I think if I'd have had a teacher that actually cared, it would have been a lot different. Definitely, yeah. And I did statistics as well because people from set three above had to do statistics as well as GCSE.
00:38:28
Speaker
I had a different teacher for that and I didn't do as well in stats. I don't get stats. Stats are horrible. I hate them so much. I have to do them now and I just don't understand it. Yeah, screw the sort of stereotypical autism kind of view. But that's it. I know, I know. I can't do maths. I can't do it.
00:38:54
Speaker
No. I did A level AS maths. I didn't do as well. I didn't do as well. I didn't like it. Actually, quite a few people I know who got like A's in maths who are really good at maths, they took A level maths and did really poorly. There's something about A level maths that just, it just kind of changes and... It is. And I think honestly a part of that is just that I didn't find it enjoyable. Like it was just, it was too...
00:39:24
Speaker
It was too complex to communicate in general for people in the class but then obviously my mind works differently so communicating that to me is even more sort of fragmented and difficult and I couldn't go with it. It was hard, I dropped that obviously. I don't get how people enjoy maths. I have a cousin who
00:39:53
Speaker
did her PhD in maths, and she wrote a massive book all about maths things, and I just don't understand how it's enjoyable. No. I like the concepts and the ideas of how they arrive to a certain formula and stuff. I think that interests me. But the actual act of doing the maths is... I just don't see the point. There's no
00:40:23
Speaker
I know there is a point to it and it's developing your ability to use that in a practical setting but there is such a gap between learning about it and using it. Even like at uni. That's it. It's like algebra. I've not used it since. And when I go to the shop I normally pay with like a debit card or something so I don't have to like do maths.
00:40:48
Speaker
And they have the scanners you shop thing, so it adds it all up for you anyway. Exactly. I think with maths as well. And we have our phones as well. That's it. I think people expect, like with maths, a quick answer straight away. But I find that I need a lot of times kind of process what they've asked before I can then actually try and figure it out. And you don't get that a lot of the time.
00:41:13
Speaker
Yeah, my maths grades were good, but my mental maths ability is not very good at all. Like even times tables and stuff. Sometimes I master do work on times tables with kids at school. And a lot of the time they're better than me at it. Not gonna lie. Just gonna put out there sometimes they are better than me on the spot kind of mental maths. I can't do it. Just doesn't work in my brain.
00:41:41
Speaker
I remember in primary school I had a teacher and we had like a maths class and we had like a sheet of times tables and we had a minute to like fill them in like as fast as we could and I was just like sat there like working it out like really slowly because I just couldn't do it and you're expected to just kind of do it as fast as possible and it's like my brain won't let me. Time pressure. Yeah. Time pressure makes a difference.
00:42:08
Speaker
So in terms of the differences in others at school, I think the whole dynamic in terms of relationships and sexual nature kind of things, did you see any changes in other people around you or have any changes in yourself about that kind of thing?
Social Norms and Isolation
00:42:32
Speaker
I did. I was like, so out of the loop with things like that. Cause all my friends came in with like hair straighteners and bags of makeup. And they were like, I did this on the weekend. I made out with this guy. And then there's me like, I stayed home and played with my Barbie dolls this weekend. But that's it. And I remember once, like I invited this friend home for tea.
00:42:58
Speaker
and I remember being there and I got my Barbie dolls out and this friend weirdly actually sat and played Barbies with me for like two hours and I thought it was great but then the next day in school she went and told everyone yeah and that was like it I was just like
00:43:17
Speaker
It's horrible, isn't it? It was really horrible because there's me thinking, oh, someone else likes Barbies as well. And it's like, no, that's not actually age appropriate. But I didn't understand that at all. And girls at that age are really, really bitchy and horrible. And I didn't understand that at all. And I had friends who were like,
00:43:41
Speaker
They could go from group to group and just fit in naturally. And I was like on the edge, just kind of watching. And that made me more of a target, I think. Yeah.
00:43:52
Speaker
I understand that. I think that there is sort of an aspect of social norms weaving themselves into life at that age. I remember a lot of my good friends generally started to move away, started to adapt more of those social norms and I lost a lot of
00:44:19
Speaker
A lot of good close friends that I spent a lot of time with just because I wanted to play something or do something that we did enjoy. But because of these social norms, they don't want to do it anymore. And now I'm a weirdo, they don't want to associate with me. I understand that completely. So, so hard because I had friends who are like, do you want to come out and get drunk on the weekend? And I was like, about like 12, 13, like in year seven, year eight.
00:44:50
Speaker
And I was like, yeah, okay. And we'd go out and there'd be random lads just turn up and I'm like, what the hell is this? And I was like, no, I'm going home. At one point I was like, my dad's coming to pick me up. I'm going home. I'm not sitting smoking weed with you, getting drunk. And that became like the normal for everyone. That became like the normal for everyone. And I was like, no.
00:45:16
Speaker
And everyone found it kind of strange that I stayed at home on the weekends. It makes complete sense to me. They were like, you're boring. Why don't you come out with us? Why don't you take legal drugs and illegal drugs? It's like, no, thank you. And again, I was weird because of that. And everyone's like, well, you're not normal. We don't want to associate with you if you're not going to join in with what we want to do.
00:45:42
Speaker
You can't just be friends with them and not join in on some things that they do. You have to do everything. You have to agree with everything in order to... Yeah, it's difficult. I had friends as well who'd come to my house. Well, I had an incident where like a friend came to my house and she said this was like year nine in high school. She's like, we've just got caught stealing from Primark.
00:46:08
Speaker
And I'm like, well, why have you come to my house? Can we hide out here? No, go away. So I had to, I told them to go home. I was like, no, if you want to do that with your little group of friends, do it, but don't, don't bring me into it. It's like.
00:46:29
Speaker
You must have grown up in a crazy school or year. I didn't like my year, to be honest. I was the youngest in my class and I felt like I was the youngest. I kind of knew I was aware of that. So I didn't fit in with the rest of the year group. And that was difficult.
00:46:49
Speaker
Did you develop any romantic feelings at that age? In terms of myself, it's not something that I liked to talk about, but I was very much sexually active at that age.
00:47:14
Speaker
not sexually active, but, you know, having those thoughts a lot. And I don't think that's something that's typically confined to me, but like, it was very strange. So, you know, I didn't have that. I had no interest in sexual relations or having a boyfriend or anything like that until I was like 17.
00:47:43
Speaker
Um, whereas all my friends did and they were like, Oh, we found this guy that you might like. And I'm like, I'm not interested. And of course I got bullied for that as well. And it's like, well, I just don't have any interest. Yeah. And that's, that's fair enough. Like it's, I think it's a good idea to, to not get into that too early, especially like the age of like 12 and stuff. Like, yeah.
00:48:09
Speaker
But it was, it did and I was very fixed. In terms of myself, I was very fixated on sort of getting a girlfriend and the whole romantic love kind of, you know, stories, watching movies about it. And I suppose in some ways I was quite different to a lot of the guys because I was
00:48:29
Speaker
most of my friends in secondary school were like girls and stuff so most of my social understanding and interactions were with girls and not with guys and I think at that age there is a large sort of social dynamic difference that I saw so I was very caught up in the whole romantic aspect of it all and wanted a girlfriend and
00:48:58
Speaker
It was very difficult though because obviously I didn't have much of an understanding of people and my emotions and stuff so it was... It is, it's hard to understand. It's like a script that you kind of have to follow and at like certain ages it's like right at this age you will do this and then when you're in high school you will have a boyfriend or girlfriend you will do this. It's like you have to follow this certain path and if you like deviate from it at all then
00:49:26
Speaker
It's hard to survive. It's like you socially, you have to do these things. If that makes sense. Yeah. I don't think any, most of it was due to like social pressure. I think it was mostly my desire for it. Obviously like it's hard to emotionally connect with people being autistic and especially at that age.
00:49:52
Speaker
So the idea of the movies and stuff where there's someone who cares about you and wants to talk about you and do things with you, that was very attractive for me. So I always sort of tried to seek that out in a way to have an anchor in all the craziness of friendships and all that.
Fitting into Social Groups as an Autistic Person
00:50:13
Speaker
I understand that completely. Now that I'm married and I have that, it's nice. But when I was a teenager, that didn't interest me at all. And I suppose there will be differences, I guess, for everybody based on genetics and stuff, I think.
00:50:32
Speaker
it's not always going to be the same for every person going through puberty, but also every autistic person. There will be some similarities, I suppose, but obviously differences as well, I guess. So did your, did the, obviously we talked a little bit about the dynamics at school and stuff, but were there
00:50:55
Speaker
any sort of, could you give us a bit more of an information about like, an information? Could you give us some more information about the sort of like the group dynamics and how you, how it changed and how you sort of fit in and who you talk to and what things helps and all that.
00:51:19
Speaker
I didn't fit in, well I tried to fit in. I think I had a group of friends in primary school who I wouldn't say accepted me but we just we kind of got on and we classed each other as friends but then when you go to high school and you're going through puberty everything changes because we were split up
00:51:39
Speaker
so I was only left with like one friend from that group and she was a people pleaser and she was like a social butterfly and she got on with everyone and I just kind of clung on to her and kind of I copied exactly what she did kind of hoping that it helped me to understand kind of the conversations and things like that but even then I still didn't understand and
00:52:07
Speaker
It took me a long time to process things and I couldn't even, I didn't feel like I could talk to my friend about it either because we were so different and she didn't understand me very well.
00:52:18
Speaker
It was really difficult because things changed dramatically. You're kind of growing up and like I said earlier, I wasn't as developed physically as they were so I didn't understand the conversations they were having and I didn't feel like part of it and when people made jokes and things I kind of thought well
00:52:40
Speaker
I took things literally and I didn't think that they were funny. So I'd point out like, you know, that's not funny. And they'd just be like, Oh, shut up. You don't know anything anyway. And it was just, it was really difficult. Cause then that took a toll on me emotionally because I found it, it was like, it was just hard. Cause there was times where I didn't want to go into school because I found it so difficult. I didn't understand what was going on in class. I didn't understand my friends. I was being bullied. So I just spend a lot of time at home crying.
00:53:10
Speaker
because it's all I knew how to do at that point. And then eventually my mum was like, okay, well you can have the day off, which every now and then I've learned now that I need that because it becomes too much. Yeah, I feel a lot. I think it's, yeah, like at school though, did you, what did you typically do like during the breaks and the lunch and stuff? Did you interact with people or did you,
00:53:37
Speaker
Like myself, I used to go to the library and sort of go on the computers and there was some people that liked to go on the computers as well and I sort of chatted to them loosely while doing other stuff. What did you do? I didn't feel comfortable being on my own.
00:53:54
Speaker
because I felt like I was so paranoid that people were like staring at me and stuff. I stayed with a group of friends. When I got into year nine and 10, I made friends with a group of people that I don't know how to say this nicely. They were looked down upon. They weren't popular. They kind of like, they were like me. And I felt like at home with them. So we used to stand in a corridor. Me too. Just like standing in a corridor, just like, I don't know why.
00:54:25
Speaker
That is really strange. That is really strange. That is really strange. That is really strange. That is really strange. That is really strange. That is really strange. That is really strange. That is really strange. That is really strange. That is really strange. That is really strange.
00:54:47
Speaker
I was with the group, but yeah, they were sort of a little bit looked down upon by the rest of the schools about us, but we were sort of like the weird.
00:54:56
Speaker
group of people. And then there was a lot of strange dynamics between people in that group because it was quite big and it sort of fluctuated in the amount of people in it. But that is strange. I mean, we used to stay on the signs corridor. So it was, yeah, that is really strange. That is strange. It's just something about standing in a corridor.
00:55:19
Speaker
But I mean, it was sort of like on the border of going on the outside because it was sort of like this little area which sort of split up the different faculties and stuff, the different buildings. That's really strange because the corridor that we used to stand in, it was kind of outdoorsy, like a little outdoor passage that led from one subject to another to another block. Yeah.
00:55:48
Speaker
And I don't know why we stood there. I don't get the appeal now. It was horrible and dirty and it smelled funny. But I guess I just wanted to fit in so I just stood there. Just out of it. Yeah.
00:56:06
Speaker
There was something that I wanted to say, but I can't particularly remember what it was. It's lost me. No. It'll come back eventually. It will do, but I want to... Oh yeah, I remember what I was going to say. When I was at school, I did have that science corridor group of friends, but I was like this weird social drifter.
00:56:35
Speaker
So I had friends that I considered to be the closest who were in different groups. So if I felt like one group was getting too much for me and I felt a little bit of friction, then I would move to another friend that I thought I was good friends with and join their group. And that was basically how I worked. I had maybe like
00:57:01
Speaker
four or five different good people who I consider to be good friends and I would go in and I would join them groups but obviously that's not how life works at that age and I thought it was just you went around and you talked to whoever you wanted to talk to
00:57:20
Speaker
And that was how I thought life would be, because it sounds logical, doesn't it? You just talk to whoever you want. Well, obviously, the whole group dynamics thing that was going on in school, I wasn't aware that I was not welcome in a group. Maybe there was one person
00:57:41
Speaker
that one person that I liked and maybe a couple of others who sort of liked me a little bit but because I wasn't liked by the group as an entity then it was difficult so I was left out on a lot of things so like because I wasn't with them all the time or because I didn't
00:58:03
Speaker
want to talk to other members of the group in particular, then when they organize things in different groups, I was left out and I was just left to sort of, you know, not be a part of that group. And that was, that was quite difficult for me. I think that was one of the main things that I struggled with, because it's not nice to be left out of things that you, especially when there's someone that you're good friends with, you feel like they're sort of going behind your back and not caring about you, right?
00:58:32
Speaker
That's it. I had, like I said, this friend that I like followed around and she was, she was the same. She was in so many different kind of social groups and I would follow her and go to these little groups and she'd be like talking to them and it'd be great for her. And they'd all look at me as if to be like, well, yeah, you're friends with her, but you're not welcome in our group. Yeah. And then she'd go from different group to group and I'd follow her and it'd be like the same thing.
00:58:59
Speaker
And that is a difficult part, isn't it? Yeah. It is something that I think changes as you get older, though. Like, people are more readily willing to talk to people who are not part of your group. Yeah.
00:59:12
Speaker
unless they are in particular quite a tightly knit sort of close group can be quite difficult at some points, but at least they're quite reciprocative to you wanting to be a part of that group when you're a little bit older.
00:59:29
Speaker
That makes all the difference. It does. And I always felt very comfortable talking to teachers and parents and older people because I always felt like my communication style and how I viewed the world was, you know, it was, I felt like on a different level, I felt like I was more in tune to the adult world rather than this crazy teenage, you know,
00:59:58
Speaker
your best kind of emotional melting pot that makes no sense at all.
01:00:04
Speaker
I was the complete opposite because I was still kind of playing with like toys and I was a lot, I act a lot younger than I actually am. I felt much more comfortable with people that were like two, three years younger than me because they were on my wavelength and we kind of liked the same things. And I found it so much easier and there was like no pressure. I could just kind of like carry on being myself.
01:00:29
Speaker
with people that were younger because I could still sit and play with my toys because that's what they'd be doing as well.
01:00:36
Speaker
Yeah, I do feel like as I got into second school, I sort of succumbed to the social pressure of liking certain things and doing certain things. And I did sort of push aside some of the things that I used to like, you know, because of obviously the friends that sort of left my life because of the things that I liked. I sort of got rid of those things and
01:01:04
Speaker
But I can see why you would gravitate towards people that like the same things as you. I think that's what a lot of people like and want to do. In my eyes, I don't think age is such a massive difference. I think if someone likes the same thing that you like and you get on, you can just be friends with them, whether they're 20 or whether they're 30 or 40 or 50. That's it.
01:01:32
Speaker
If you like similar things and you can interact, then it's all right. That's it. I think as I've grown older, it's easier to make friends because when I was in high school, like I liked Pokemon and I dressed weird and I liked like heavy metal music and I hid it so much. But now I'm just like, I'm welcomed. I'm liked for all this stuff that when I was a teenager would have got me bullied.
01:02:00
Speaker
Like, people are more receptive. Yeah, and you get to choose who you're around, don't you? And it turns out a lot of people actually like the same sort of stuff, so it's like, it's great. Yeah, I think you do get to choose as well in adulthood. You don't have to be around the people that are set in stoner who are around you all the time at school. You don't really have a choice.
01:02:25
Speaker
your pick from those people but when you're an adult it's more you can pick and choose if you don't like someone then you don't have to be friends with them you can just do something else and yeah it's more freedom
01:02:39
Speaker
That's really funny that you mentioned because I also really like Pokemon, or at least I used to play Pokemon a lot. And I also dressed quite strange. I was very much in sort of like an emo type kid. Same. And I also listened to Metal and all that stuff, so we probably had very similar
01:03:02
Speaker
childhoods in some cases. I always like talk to people like online and stuff who have the same interests and I was like, I wish I knew you in high school. There's all these people that I wish I knew because it would have been so much easier. Definitely. Just having an awareness of autism in general as a society, I feel like
01:03:28
Speaker
If people are more willing to tell people that they're autistic and more comfortable with telling people that, then maybe people who are autistic could band together and help each other out and stuff. Maybe people have a bit more understanding of what it is at a young age would be helpful. Yeah, I think so, definitely. I think that's one of the main things that I feel needs to change. There needs to be
01:03:58
Speaker
an awareness of autism just at a young age and helping children to understand the differences in order to, you know, because like when you're autistic you have to learn to fit in with other people and that is a very tough and grueling and long process.
01:04:20
Speaker
and it has to be done all from you. But even just like a tiny little bit the other way, tiny bit of understanding the other way, even if it's just like a few classes on it every year or something in primary school or secondary school, that would make all the difference. I think so, rather than people just saying, oh, you're weird, it's like they'd be more understanding and they'd be more accepting, I think as well.
01:04:50
Speaker
Definitely. If it's seen as more of a normal thing, which is... It is a normal thing. There is...
01:04:57
Speaker
in every school there is likely to be at least a few if not more autistic people. I think it is important that we have that sort of education and understanding at a young age because that could avoid all of the social isolation and alienation and bullying and mental health because of those experiences and stuff and I think it all sort of
01:05:23
Speaker
ties in together, doesn't it? It's like a problem that needs to be overcome. I think that's essential. It's just kind of a lot of people I know have tried to do training in schools and stuff, but a lot of the time it's difficult because you want to do all this stuff, but the schools aren't always receptive and sometimes the kids don't want to listen. But I definitely think it is needed. There needs to be some way of working around it.
01:05:51
Speaker
I'm sure we will get there at some point, but you know, we just need to keep on making people. I just saw a wrap. I've sort of sat next to my computer because I don't want to have the wearing of the computer in the mic. So I'm just sat opposite a window and
01:06:11
Speaker
and there's sort of like a row of houses and a rat just crawled out of the hedge and just walked across someone's doorstep. That's so weird. Wow. Interesting little side note there. Yeah. So you told me that you were diagnosed at 25, of course. And looking back on your life post-diagnosis,
01:06:42
Speaker
How did that knowledge of being autistic influence how you view and reconcile with the negative and positive experiences that you've had at school and in life and relationships and stuff?
Understanding Past Experiences Through Diagnosis
01:06:56
Speaker
I think looking back, my childhood, what I can remember from it makes so much sense now. It would have been nice to kind of have the diagnosis younger because that would have kind of
01:07:09
Speaker
helped, I would have been able to like avoid certain situations. I would have had more understanding. Um, it kind of explained why I acted the way I did and why I found like social interaction and understanding my emotions so difficult. I think now it's been, hang on, three, three years. I'm trying to figure out how old I am. Um, it's been a couple of years and I've now I'm able to look back at the past and think, well, okay.
01:07:38
Speaker
that is why that happened. And I'm kind of, I'm at peace with it now with everything that's happened. I understand it more if I'm able to kind of say, well, that happened and kind of move on from it. And it was kind of like self discovery in a way, because it kind of gave me
01:07:55
Speaker
I had time to kind of process everything and, and realize like who I actually am and that when I was like in high school and when I went through puberty, that wasn't actually me, like the real me. It was someone that I kind of portrayed for everyone else, kind of like a show kind of fitting. Yeah. And I'm, I'm so much happier now. Cause when things happen or I do things, I'm thinking, yeah, I know why I do that. That makes a lot of sense.
01:08:24
Speaker
Um, and I have more understanding and the people around me are more understanding as well, which is really nice. And I'm able to kind of confidently go to people and say, yeah, I'm autistic. You know, this is what I need from you. And kind of being able to kind of like in the workplace or at university, kind of get that and for them to understand it's amazing.
01:08:50
Speaker
I definitely empathize with a lot of that. I think one of the amazing things about having a sort of a solid understanding that you are different allows you to sort of look at the problems and the miscommunications that you've had in the past as more of a miscommunication on both parts rather than all your fault. It allows you to sort of
01:09:17
Speaker
view it as how it is rather than view it as, you know, negatively towards yourself. I think it's been more kind to yourself.
01:09:31
Speaker
That's it, because in high school, I always thought everything was, it was all my fault. I was acting this way and it was all my fault. I dressed this way and it's like, I blamed myself a lot and I've kind of, I'm able to like reflect and have some like clarity on that and think, well, actually, no, it wasn't all my fault. There was like a mixture of different things that kind of made things turn out the way they were, but I'm kind of, like I say, I'm at peace with that now and
01:09:58
Speaker
I probably wouldn't change it because it's made me who I am today. Yeah, I get that a lot. I feel a lot of what you're saying.
01:10:06
Speaker
Cool. So I think we've got through a lot of the questions that I wanted to go through. Now comes the memory test. Which three things that we've mentioned do you think are most important to take away? What messages do you want people to remember?
01:10:31
Speaker
See, I can't remember what we've talked about, but I did write things down for this because I'm prepared and it kind of like, it'll work. I think that because I mask so much, I think not masking and not hiding and not feeling pressured to like act a certain way just because everyone else is at that age don't feel like you have to.
01:10:57
Speaker
Just like, I know it's really difficult for me to say that. Cause when you're going through it, it's a completely different thing and it's really difficult, but kind of like not hiding and being like your true self is really important and not worrying that everyone else is like developing faster than you are. Cause that was something that I got really like upset and anxious about and just kind of knowing that everyone develops like
01:11:27
Speaker
at their own rate and don't like don't be ashamed of that just kind of like embrace it and like don't be worried to talk to people because i had friends but i didn't feel like i could talk to them and i was so like socially awkward i wouldn't talk to my parents or anyone so it's just like knowing that people do actually care and people will talk to you if you like talk to them and don't kind of feel like worried to do it
01:11:57
Speaker
it's like it's really hard in high school but like looking back I like regret a lot of stuff like for not talking to people and blaming myself for stuff but
Advice for Autistic Students
01:12:07
Speaker
it's really hard when you're in that like kind of moment it's difficult to kind of know what you're going to do until it's actually happening yeah and it just feels like it goes on forever doesn't it feels like it's an endless
01:12:21
Speaker
cycle of going through stress at school and then coming home and having to deal with it and then the next day going and repeating the cycle. Doing it all again. It does and I think that the main thing that I'd say to be honest would be just to have it if you are listening to this and you are going through school just have it in your head that
01:12:48
Speaker
this isn't it's not permanent it is a very long time and it is very difficult but it's not permanent your social ability and your social standing in school and how you operate and your mental health and and all that stuff it will change it's just you have to remember that it will you have to cling on to that yeah it's
01:13:13
Speaker
It's not permanent. I'm not friends with any of the people from high school now, really.
01:13:19
Speaker
what happens in high school and actually going through high school and like your social interactions and everything it doesn't always carry with you it doesn't always like follow you through to adulthood or anything so don't kind of like feel worried about like things yeah don't feel like you're missing out like you could just a lot of the things that people can do at that age you can do it at any point in your life it's a very small part of your life that you can do
01:13:47
Speaker
If you want to stay home and play with your toys, do it. Yeah. Just do it. Yeah, definitely. Brilliant. I think that's all good and all awesome. Now I've got the little question I ask everybody who comes on to talk about autism. What does autism mean to you? I hate this question. I get asked this a lot and I never know what to say.
01:14:14
Speaker
I just like to hear everybody's different responses to it. It's nice. It's hard to put into words. It's just, it doesn't define me. It's part of who I am, but it doesn't define me. I'm like so much more than like a label. And it's just the fact that my brain is just wired differently. That's how I see it. And there's so much I love about it.
01:14:43
Speaker
Because a lot of the time people are like, I hate having this. I hate it. And I'm just like, no, to me, it's just... It's just who I am. It's me. Pretty much. It's just me. Brilliant. I don't know if that makes sense. No, I think that's... I agree. Like, I think it is.
01:15:02
Speaker
It's a part of you and it's not all of you, but it is a difference.
Autism as Part of Identity
01:15:07
Speaker
And I think there's one thing that springs to mind is that autistic and neurotypical people are like an Xbox and a PS4. They both do the same thing, but they work differently. You can't put an Xbox disc into a PS4 and you can't put a PS4 disc into an Xbox.
01:15:28
Speaker
They both play games and they both do it well. That's a good way of looking at it. It's not my idea, it's actually my lens. I like that though. It is good, isn't it? I think it's a good analogy. Yeah. As long as the autistic people can be the place agent, that's fine. I suppose it makes sense, doesn't it? Because Xbox is more sort of on the social kind of angle of it, isn't it? So it's peaceful, it's more for pure gaming, isn't it?
01:15:58
Speaker
And I just prefer the PS4 in general, I think. I'm not going to argue on that. I'm a bit biased that way. I've got an Xbox, I don't have a PS4. Thank you very much for that. It's always very much appreciated.
01:16:14
Speaker
Thank you very much for like having me on. It's been nice to just like kind of be able to talk about things that normally like, or generally you wouldn't really talk about. It doesn't, you don't talk about these things very often because people find it embarrassing, but I think sometimes you kind of need to talk about these things. Yeah. Like you need to talk about everything or else everybody doesn't, you know, it's, it's something that happens to everybody. Like it's, you need to talk about stuff like this or else people just feel
01:16:44
Speaker
You know, some people feel like their experiences are completely to them and they're just really weird and strange and they should just be quiet. But if you know about other people's experiences, then you can see what your similarities and differences are and maybe not feel as alone. It's nice to relate to people. Definitely.
01:17:10
Speaker
Would you like to give out any of like social media links and stuff? I know that you have a blog, is it? Yes. Um, all my social media links are the same. Pretty much. It's just like actually ass-winged. Everything is just that. So it's really simple. Cool. I will put all of those links in the, uh, in the description of the podcast or the YouTube video or whatever. And, um,
01:17:38
Speaker
Have you enjoyed the podcast? I have, I've never done a podcast before. It's strange because I've started making YouTube videos lately. I like that, that's okay. But I don't know, I was really worried about doing a podcast in case I say the wrong thing or I don't know. But now that I've actually done one, it's not as bad as I thought.
01:18:03
Speaker
Yeah, it's just a little bit strange, isn't it? It's a bit hard at the start because you have that in mind that you feel like you have to try and answer perfectly or be some, you know, perform, I suppose. But once you get into it, it just feels more like you're just having a
01:18:26
Speaker
A call. And it has been nice to be able to talk about something that I'm passionate about as well, which is really nice. I think you probably have a lot of insights into this topic as well on your social medias and your blog and stuff. So for anybody out there, definitely go check out her blog and obviously, yeah, in the description.
01:18:49
Speaker
So yeah, this is a this has been the 40 or two podcast I am Thomas Henley and You can find my overwork on Asperger's growth at YouTube at YouTube always get this this part wrong
01:19:08
Speaker
I spare this growth for Instagram, Twitter and Facebook if you want to follow me. I've got a Patreon and obviously the Fotiotr podcast is available on YouTube, Spotify, Anchor, Apple Podcasts, you can always find it. All of those places, every two weeks I'm trying to put out an episode so I have to amend that intro at some point but...
01:19:32
Speaker
There is also something that I wanted to say just before we round up and finish. I am currently in the process of finalizing a documentary that I did for my final year project at university. It's called Asperger's In Society and it's all about the link between autism and mental health and whether
01:19:57
Speaker
it's a matter of biology just inherent being autistic or whether it's more of a social issue and that will be out at some point i'm going to release a teaser at some point with the intro on it so if you're interested in checking that out i'll put about 200-300 hours into it so i think it'll be good and yeah i'd be much appreciated if you guys checked it out
01:20:22
Speaker
So it is the end of the podcast. Well, I mean, it's not the end of the podcast, but I never know how to round it up. Would you like to round up the podcast for me? Because I am absolutely awful at this. I don't know. I hate when people kind of put you on the spot. I don't know what to say. Bye. Bye.