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00:00:01
Autism Misdiagnosed As Bipolar Disorder
815 Plays1 year ago
Why do ADHD and Autism get misdiagnosed as Bipolar Disorder? What impact does bipolar medication have on someone? How do Brandon and Thomas process anger differently?
Brandon Christ (@autistically_b) was diagnosed with Autism (ASD-2) and ADHD recently after a long life of being misdiagnosed with Bipolar Disorder. Working in physiotherapy with a passion for baseball and fitness, Brandon seeks to open up about his experiences with late-diagnosed life and how fitness has shaped him as a person.
My Links - https://linktr.ee/thomashenleyUK // Brandon's Insta - https://www.instagram.com/autistically_b/
Dbud Noise Cancelling Adjustable Ear Buds (20% OFF with code: THOUGHTYAUTI) - https://dbud.io/thoughtyautipodcast
The conversation commences on the topic of neurodiversity, looking at the differences between inherent and acquired neurodiversity, as well as the fine lines between viewing some neurodivergencies as good, neutral, or inherently bad.
On the topic of masking in adolescence, Thomas tended to be quiet and blended in as much as he could... whilst Brandon became hyper-verbal and highly social.
Thomas dives deeper into Brandon's difficult childhood, highlighting the behavioral training he received due to stimming, meltdowns, and attention problems. Brandon reflects on life before the People's First movement and how his early adulthood influenced his life outcome.
Pathological Demand Avoidance (PDA) is best characterised as a sensitivity to expectations, not defiance, and is fairly common in autistic people. The two talk about their experiences with PDA and aggression at school, at work, and within sports. Highlighting the silly online culture around things such as the Alpha Male, Thomas postulates that the idea of the Sigma Male likely comes from the existence of confident autistic men with PDA.
It can be hard being autistic in a neurotypical world; Thomas and Brandon connect on the negative experiences that shaped their prior negative mindset towards neurotypicals... and how they shifted their perspective to forgiveness in later adulthood.
Sport and exercise is a big part of both Brandon and Thomas' life... it's regulating, a great social lubricant, helps develop grit, and can temper you against sensory overload in the long term. Autistic people can struggle with instinctual movements and hypermobility, but have a lot of strengths in sports too!
Brandon directs a question to the host about the struggles he faces most often as an autistic person. Thomas highlights it was once alexithymia and other people which were the biggest factors, with executive functioning and transition difficulties being a close second. Being autistic often comes with unfavorable life experiences and co-occurring conditions, and for Thomas mental illness is the biggest difficulty in life.
Song Of The Day (Listen Here) - https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5UDIyN5TSYN4zMcRoQPrG8?si=9255ed3480d840b5
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Transcript
Introduction and Episode Overview
00:00:07
Speaker
Good day and welcome back to the 4TOD podcast with your host, Mr. Thomas Henley, of course. How are you guys doing today? It is lovely to be back on the podcast doing another really, really interesting episode. Today, we're going to be talking to Brandon, who is somebody that got in touch with me via Instagram.
00:00:32
Speaker
Basically, we had like one of the pre-chat calls that I usually have before podcasts like think of the topic and think of questions and stuff. And we got on so well that we were like chatting for like over an hour. So it was really nice. And Brandon's got a really awesome story, as well as recently deciding to kind of
00:00:51
Speaker
dive into the autistic community, create his own kind of style of posts, which are, you know, gym and autism related, which is always really cool to have another person like that in the community. So yeah, we're basically going to be talking about a lot of different things today.
Autism and Misdiagnosis Journey
00:01:08
Speaker
Sort of the school system, things around misdiagnosis, things around general life experiences that autistic people may have.
00:01:18
Speaker
as well as I guess some things to do with unemployment and employment and getting into the work feeling okay with life in lots of different areas. So it's going to be a very kind of all encompassing podcast today. And yeah, I'm very happy to introduce my guest, Mr. Brandon Christ. How are you doing? I'm doing good. It's a good introduction. I appreciate it. Yeah, I'm excited to be here.
00:01:46
Speaker
Um, like you said, we had a really cool conversation and we, I mean, we've been having a good conversation, uh, before we started recording here. Um, but I'm excited to be here and you know, I hope people who are here watching and listening take the time to make it through and listen to us. Cause I feel like, you know, it's going to help some people today. And that's really what I'm here for. And I know that's what you're here for. And,
00:02:14
Speaker
I'd assume that's what people who are listening are here for, so. Totally.
00:02:19
Speaker
Well, when we were chatting before, it seemed like you had a very keen interest in kind of sharing your story after kind of a lot of years of not knowing that you're autistic and sort of perhaps not feeling okay with talking about it. So I'll have a kind of twofold answer for that one, right? And we'll most likely get into it either after my answer or at some point during the podcast.
00:02:46
Speaker
I was misdiagnosed as bipolar, super young. I've always had a lot of struggles and a lot of problems every day that have impacted my daily living, my work, my school, literally, as you know, every aspect of my life. I've always been open with people and with the public in terms of
00:03:12
Speaker
what makes me different, so to speak. So in the past, it was always like I have bipolar disorder, and this is Y, X, Y, Z. And it wasn't until about January this year when I received my diagnosis of level two autism and ADHD combined that I started to be open about having autism and being autistic because it was
00:03:41
Speaker
honestly, a huge relief to me. And I'm really trying to find the right words for it. Cause I don't want to upset anybody, but like I get, I was happy. I wasn't bipolar, you know, not necessarily cause I'm not talking good about others who have bipolar. Cause I mean no harm and they're great people and they struggle a lot, you know, and all that stuff. But
00:04:08
Speaker
you know, the way that my experience was with the treatment and being told what bipolar was and the portrayals of it.
00:04:20
Speaker
it was not, you know, something good. I was made to feel that that it was broken and something was bad. So when I received the autism diagnosis in ADHD, I'm like, you know, I'm not bad. I'm not broken. Like there's real, real neurological. I was born this way. There's nothing that could possibly change the way that things are, you know, and it's, that's what it is. And I'm not broken. And so, you know,
00:04:49
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. It's kind of that interesting thing, isn't it? Because like, I think, you know, with things such as autism, ADHD, there is very much like, it's not necessarily like,
00:05:04
Speaker
very clear that it's good or bad. Whereas like things like with myself having no depression and anxiety, you know, if someone could come along and just cure me of both of them, like I would like take it an instant. If someone handed me like a little pill and said, hey Tom, do you want to stop being autistic? I'd be like, no, sounds absolutely terrifying. Yeah, no, I totally agree with that.
00:05:33
Speaker
Thank you for helping to put better words into what I was trying to explain because that's what's hard for me sometimes is honestly finding the right words because my autism is awesome and I'm happy about it, but it really does cause struggles for me. I get overwhelmed real quickly with
00:05:59
Speaker
what we're doing here, like out of nowhere, you know, so finding the right words is, is difficult sometimes if I'm genuinely being myself, you know, cause I was pretending for an extremely long time cause I didn't know that I had autism and I thought everything, everyone
Challenges of Social Interactions and Masking Behaviors
00:06:17
Speaker
was this way. So I just created personalities and push things like as far down as humanly possible to where I didn't feel, you know, necessarily anything. Yeah.
00:06:29
Speaker
I think that's something that a lot of people can relate to in different areas.
00:06:36
Speaker
I know that for me, I didn't tend to mask when I was younger, but that was mostly because I just couldn't wrap my head around doing the actual thing. I talked to some other people who have masked during school and they were able to stay under radar. For me, the only way that I could mask is just to be almost completely mute.
00:07:02
Speaker
selectively reduce the amount of words that I use to such a degree that, you know, it'd be hard for anybody to tell really, apart from that's like nonverbal communication. People just kind of think that was quiet. It's so funny that you say that because like that, so we're opposite in that regard. My
00:07:24
Speaker
The way I was was to be hyperverbal and create conversations and to get out ahead of anything that could have possibly taken attention to me or happened. So I tried to control everything and over-talk and over-explain and always be the one to
00:07:46
Speaker
be talking and all that stuff, not because I even really knew what I was saying, but just because it was a lot easier than being a target and just standing there and sitting there with all the anxiety of not really knowing or understanding anything.
00:08:03
Speaker
I definitely went through kind of a similar sort of phase. It's probably like over the course of two or three years. I think it's definitely something that has like still to some degree has its scripts in me like just in the back of my head. But like definitely like watching sort of content online like on YouTube about like how you should be as like a man or a person if you want to be confident and like
00:08:33
Speaker
I'm very confident myself and I don't really feel much social anxiety around anybody, but I think some of the ways that I come across because of my body language or my eye contact or any number of things, it does to some people come across that I'm not very confident.
00:08:58
Speaker
sometimes and so I was like alright I need to like change things I need to like put myself out in the best way possible and I was like oh I need to have open body language all the time I need to like not smile as much as I do even though like you know it's it's part of my personality there are all sorts of things which are like talked about a lot as that's what like confident men do but
00:09:24
Speaker
It's just so counterintuitive for who I am, I guess. Yeah, no. I mean, that makes total sense, dude. Like I literally... So due to everything that I've been working through over the last eight months from reevaluation, therapy, medication,
00:09:52
Speaker
Constant therapy like I've been going three days a week for eight months for an hour You know medication on Friday it all just kind of clicked and For the first time in my whole life I actually feel like myself like I can actually Get through it all because it was all
00:10:21
Speaker
just so much all the time. And to be honest, I really, I didn't even know how bad it was until everything just like clicked on Friday with the new medication regimen and you know, all the therapy, it just was, it's insane. I got kind of scared too for a minute because I could breathe, you know, and everything's like, you know, and I'm like actually here and present.
00:10:48
Speaker
What do you mean about the medication side of things? Because I know that you had to diagnose ADHD as well. Is that what you mean in terms of the medication? Yes and no. I've been using ADHD medication for, I'd say maybe five or six months now. It helped a tremendous amount. It still very much does. It was increased.
00:11:18
Speaker
The main thing that happened is I was taken off one medication and then put on two.
00:11:28
Speaker
a different one that could replace it and help with my anxiety the next day. It's a medication that I take at night to help with my insomnia because I just cannot sleep. Then it also works throughout the next day with anti-anxiety and calming effects.
00:11:50
Speaker
that combination of coming off one that was giving me negative side effects that I didn't realize because autism. My therapist is like, you got to get better at this. I'm like, yeah, it just is what it is. That's why I pay you. You helped me with that.
00:12:17
Speaker
But uh, you know, so I couldn't say that the medicine was giving me bad side effects. And I you know, because because of the autism, I had absolutely no interoception. Like you say, I couldn't, you know, really place that it was something that was even causing anything. And then the other aspect of two is like, I felt like such my whole life, and everything's been too much and so bad all the time, that, like,
00:12:43
Speaker
It didn't even matter that that was like an extra thing, you know? It's like the normal kind of baseline that you... Because it's weird, isn't it? Because for me, since I was probably earlier than 14, maybe even 12,
00:13:00
Speaker
you know, I've been depressed and it's not some, it's something that sometimes gets better in terms of like the mindset and how I'm dealing with it. But I'm always depressed to some degree. And it's, I'm always, to some degree, like anxious in my body, maybe not in my head, but, you know, kind of, I kind of describe it as like having like ants on my bones. I only really experienced the physical side of things. I think that's something to do with Alexa Feimier and
00:13:28
Speaker
and things like that. But it's just kind of like my my sense of normality is experiencing anxiety and depression to a mild degree. Like, that's good for me. Like, when I was younger, like baseline. When I was younger, my baseline would be like around like the moderate kind of level of both of them. And just like a lot of instances where I would dip into severe but
00:13:53
Speaker
Nowadays, it's very much more akin to the mild side of things. I only get like, periods of time for about maybe a month or so sort of during the year that it does get quite severe. But it's really weird when like, do you think you're older or you know how to cook better?
00:14:15
Speaker
I think I know how to cope better and I know where to put my mental energy in force. It's not even the case that I think about positive things necessarily. It's more about, I guess, being okay with how I'm feeling and what life is like to a certain degree and just adjusting things based on that. That makes sense. So more like reality therapy.
00:14:46
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I guess. Excuse me. Yeah. Is that the imagination that you want? Just wondering because it sounds very similar to the one that I'm on. Is it metazapine that you're on? No, um, clodipine. Clodipine. I don't know if that's like... I've never heard of benzodiazepine. Oh, nice.
00:15:08
Speaker
Yeah. I'm like, it's just funny because it's like benzodiazepine stimulants help me function and feel normal. They just do the opposite things. Yeah. That's how I know for sure I'm autistic and that it's just how I was born because I've been on every antipsychotic and anti-convulsant and SSRI and I've been on it all because they all thought I was bipolar forever.
School and Family Dynamics
00:15:39
Speaker
You know, I'm just on like, in my mind was like kind of natural medications in a way, because they both naturally kind of occur and they just, I don't know if they help, they work for me. And I'm just grateful that they do because, you know, I really could not keep living the way that I was prior to everything working out the way it is right now.
00:16:02
Speaker
Well, I'm thinking it would be good to kind of get into some of the questions that we have here. I mean, I think the place that we wanted to start off with was kind of around like the school age kind of experience of going through early, middle kind of high school experiences. I think you mentioned when we talked last time that you had quite a difficult time in the school system.
00:16:29
Speaker
Could you tell us about the behavioral and mental health issues that you faced during that time?
00:16:37
Speaker
Yeah. So in general, my memories aren't necessarily the best due to a lot of stuff that I went through when I was younger and then trauma. And then honestly, just my ADHD also, because that's kind of how it works with ADHD. I need prompts to
00:17:00
Speaker
recall information and feelings. But yeah, trauma is definitely number one and the fact that I've been in this just constant state of panic and overwhelm and overstimulation since the day I have memories. I've always felt crazy not to say that I'm crazy until the other day.
00:17:25
Speaker
I'll do my best. It's like, it's like the idea of being weird. It's always in comparison to other people. Yeah, yeah. And to be neurotypicals. Pretty much. And yeah, no, school is a struggle. And like I was telling you on the phone call the other day, like every step of the way up until, you know, now in adulthood, I just
00:17:48
Speaker
couldn't manage less and less and less. And I did fake it my whole life. I really have no clue sometimes how I got to where I am today because I've been white knuckling my way through life, not understanding, not knowing, not fitting in and just
00:18:07
Speaker
moving forward because it's the only thing I knew to do. And that's how I got through high school and middle school and elementary school here in the States. I never really wanted to be in school. It was never something that was fun for me.
00:18:28
Speaker
In elementary school, obviously, I had a lot of attention problems, so I would be standing up, sitting down, stimming in my chair constantly. They called it special education back in the day, but I was in special education for a few months in elementary school.
00:18:50
Speaker
And then somehow my family got me out of that because part of the problem is that my family just doesn't want to admit that, you know, I'm disabled and I don't use that word lightly, but that, you know, I have legitimate disabilities and issues. They wanted to not admit that. So, you know, I can't be in special education. And then they worked out and just like, go ahead. I think to some degree, it's like,
00:19:15
Speaker
I don't really have the experience of being a parent, but just from talking to my mom and also talking to other people in my life, it seems like sometimes for people, for parents, it can sort of feel like you're failing, like you've done something wrong. And so they really want to avoid it. Some people, they just ignore it. And then, for example, with my mom, she might have
00:19:45
Speaker
not really acknowledged it for a while, but I think once she kind of saw the reality of it, she did kind of switch a tune on it. You know, when I was told that I was autistic, you know, I was 10 years old. And even then she was quite
00:20:03
Speaker
I guess she just kind of put like a positive spin on it, which I think was really helpful for me. And she's, you know, when you were talking about sort of white knuckling it through night life, you know, I, I definitely have, like, I relate to that so much because it's, you know, mental health, autism, whatever it is, has been very difficult. And I really don't understand how I'm still still around at this point, but
00:20:32
Speaker
I think it's a lot to do with motivation and just like...
00:20:37
Speaker
somehow just having some kind of like inner strength to want to carry on with things and move forward. It's very strange to have like those two conflicting ideas in your mind. One is like give up and you know very heavily and you feel that to your bones. And then the other is just like this little voice in your head that you just kind of listen to about sort of carrying on with things.
00:21:07
Speaker
Yeah, it's funny. So I've always been extremely motivated to move and to move forward and to be better and to do the right thing and to get to where I am today. So it's like,
00:21:36
Speaker
I'm happy that I'm finally at the point now where I don't have so much that I'm dragging behind me because that's kind of my superpower is just
00:21:54
Speaker
pushing forward and doing things that people say that I can't because that's how I was raised. You know, Brandon, you can't do this. Brandon, you'll never be good at that all through school. Like Brandon, you're a failure. Brandon, you're this. Brandon, you're that. You're never going to be anything.
00:22:13
Speaker
And so it's just like that, you know, if I can curse cool, if not, you can bleep it out. But it's just that attitude that is just it's in my bones from the day I was born. And that's what moves me forward still to this day, you know, and to help people. But, you know, without getting to the point I am with feeling how I'm feeling and having the
00:22:39
Speaker
ability to cope and actually feel good. I could not keep moving forward anymore. I was just dragging so much that it did not matter how strong I got or how tough I was or how bad I wanted it. I could not do it anymore.
00:23:01
Speaker
as an autistic person sort of being so different. It's, we carry with us a lot of negative experiences with life that definitely do affect our perception of other people but also of ourselves that we kind of hold on to in the back of our heads that can often be really
00:23:20
Speaker
damaging, I guess, you know, it's one of the things that I tell a lot of people when they first get diagnosed is, you know, it's not necessarily like unmasking or learning how to stem or understanding your sensory things, but like actually kind of going through these, these these faults that you have yourself and trying to find where the root of it is. And quite often it's it's the root of it's not necessarily to do with who you are or your personality, but
00:23:47
Speaker
as you do to miscommunication or the environment that you're in. Even if you have done bad things to people or said bad things to people, looking at it through a different lens for what it is, it really does help you process things, even if it is something that you... I really clicked on something you said there.
00:24:18
Speaker
on the saying or doing bad things to people. That really clicked in my head a lot because I'm stimming like crazy this whole time. But to people out there and with me too, growing up, I was a difficult kid. I have level two autism, very bad ADHD.
00:24:48
Speaker
And, you know, I had a lot of outbursts and meltdowns and, you know, I was very difficult and, you know, I would get violent. I don't anymore, you know, cause I'm older and I know a lot more, but, um, you know, I would get violent and I had no control over it, you know, and I want to bring that up cause I want people to not feel bad because it's,
00:25:17
Speaker
You can't help it at some point. Everyone who has autism, it is a disability for a reason.
00:25:25
Speaker
you become disabled sometimes where you're unable to act and behave the way that you want to. And no matter how much inside, you're like, no, no, no. And, you know, what's actually happening and what you're doing does not match with what you're telling yourself. You know, not don't feel bad. You can't help it. And it's OK. And anyone that makes you feel bad about it, you know, isn't really that good of a person.
00:25:55
Speaker
It's kind of like, especially like in school, it's very much a, like a defensive thing, because the environment's so complex and everyone's kind of like moving, everyone that's your age is kind of moving forward socially. It's at a speed that you're not able to keep up with.
00:26:13
Speaker
And so you get into a lot of situations where you, you know, are taking advantage of for those differences. You know, you can think of like direct communication and, you know, picking up on nonverbal cues. It's like, I think for me, it was very much that my defense mechanism was to kind of go inside myself and not
00:26:38
Speaker
like react or not, not do anything like that. Like I remember a certain situation at school where there was like someone who, I don't know, for some reason they like punched me in the balls. And, um, that's the, I just, and I just didn't react. I just like,
00:26:57
Speaker
I like stone face them. And usually that would have worked to some degree. But it didn't because their friends came. And they were like, hey, look, Tom, Tom can get punched in the balls and he can be okay. And so of course, they all gathered around punching me in the boards. Oh, gosh.
00:27:14
Speaker
So it wasn't necessarily the best. If I was there, I'd have taken them down for you. That was part of what I did when I was in school too. That was always my thing. I'd always get in the way of those things because it's not okay. I've just always been able to handle those things and I've wanted to, not to be
00:27:36
Speaker
the violent person, but to, you know, stand up for you, you know, like people like you, like, and me, because that's, you know, like, you're me, I just, for some reason have this, you know,
00:27:49
Speaker
fight in me since the day I was born.
Therapy and Coping Mechanisms
00:27:52
Speaker
And, you know, I got to do something with it. So I would do, you know, good things. I would, you know, beat people up for you, because that would not be okay. Not if not if I was there. And then we'd sit at the same lunch table. I did get to a point where I was kind of feeling like confident, like I, I very much felt like a ton of anger, even though I was so sort of
00:28:20
Speaker
to the right word placid, not non-confrontational at school. I very much like held on to a lot of anger. So most of my nights that I spent at school, I would go to the gym on my own. I had like this, this scholarship because of doing my taekwondo. And I would like work out in the morning and the night and I would literally like rid myself of all this energy. I never actually got into any confrontations at school like that I
00:28:49
Speaker
like fully went into, but I did have some situations where I'd talk to people who were like picking on my friends. Yeah, it's usually over people. It's not me, not me. I'm like, I just, yeah, there was like these, these two bullies that used to come like and steal our football and kick it over the roof and like twang our ears with like elastic bands and yeah.
00:29:14
Speaker
One of them was like a really big guy and he was absolutely ginormous. You know, bear in mind that I was like the age of 15, 16, he was he looked like he was like built like a fully grown man who did strong man. But I went up to him one time and I was like, can you stop doing that? And he was like, looking at me like, like, because nobody ever like said that to him before that you could, you know, it's like he's tried to do it again. I was like, no, please don't. It's not comfortable.
00:29:43
Speaker
Um, and I was talking to him and I was like, do you not have anything better to do than coming like harassers at lunchtime? Like I'm not saying it in a aggressive way or like a, you know, you're just having a conversation. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and so that, that, that was kind of like the first time that I'd really, I guess, con confronted someone verbally it's, and it's, it's very much something that has come in handy, I guess, in, in adulthood. Like if, if someone's just in a very.
00:30:14
Speaker
confrontational aggressive mood just for no reason, really. They just don't like the look of me. I just have a chat with them and it usually seems to blow over. Okay. I think going out to the martial arts helps as well because you just don't like feel a sense of danger, I guess, around most people.
00:30:33
Speaker
Yeah, that's fair. That would make sense. I know. I know that you went when we were talking like it wasn't it. You tended to get like tall off quite a lot for autistic babies. I think something that you mentioned was like like you had a lot of kind of behavioral modification like to do with like oral motor issues, which is something that. Yeah. Yeah. No. Yeah. Yeah. No, I remember that. So, um,
00:31:02
Speaker
When I was five, that's why they started taking me to the doctor when I was five. So this is how ADHD my brain is. You asked me what happened between when I was five and got depressed until I got out of it. And so my brain doesn't count the time before that, which was...
00:31:24
Speaker
when they were going through the behavioral modification because that's what caused me to reach to that depressive state and then shut down and internalize all that and be overwhelmed because that's what they were doing. I was existing as a person with autism and ADHD, and they would stop me from being the way that I am, telling me that I'm bad, telling me that it's wrong and that it can't happen. Over time, I started to bite my nails a lot.
00:31:55
Speaker
They were like, you can't bite your nails. That's not acceptable. And so I went to therapy and stopped biting my nails. And then I started to bite the skin off or the hair off of my hands and my knuckles and fingers. And then back in therapy again, you're bad, you're wrong, you can't do that. And then I started to
00:32:16
Speaker
actually bite my knuckles themselves until they were wrong, would bleep. And then, you know, that wasn't okay, obviously. And now I'm back in therapy, then I start pulling my hair out and, you know, now that's not okay. And so then now I'm literally just internalizing everything, you know, trying to like remove all of these coping mechanisms that you have that necessarily probably might not be good, but they're not like adding in anything for you to use, like,
00:32:44
Speaker
Exactly. Things got so bad that I started to bite my nails because when I went to kindergarten, that was too much for me. All that anxiety over stimulation due to the diagnosis caused me to start to need an outlet because part of what's
00:33:05
Speaker
I wouldn't say wrong, but part of what we struggle with is regulation and staying regulated and our bodies don't do it naturally. So we need a physical outlet for it, whether it's like a motor or like my fidget that I've been messing with this whole time or taking a sip of a drink, just we need something external to
00:33:26
Speaker
help us to regulate and bring things to a manageable homeostasis level. And so that's when I started to bite my nails because it was all too much. And even early on, they were still training those behaviors out of me up until I went to the doctor because I only went to the doctor when I started self-harming in their mind.
00:33:50
Speaker
When you were saying your story about that, I mean, it kind of brought up the chat that I had with another kind of autism advocate called O-T-N-L. And they were talking about their habit, their stim of sucking their thumb. And that was, you know, obviously in terms. Yeah. Sometimes that can be not so great in terms of dental development. You know, pushy front teeth, that was probably not a good idea, but
00:34:18
Speaker
Like, they just definitely didn't give them any ways to do things differently. They're not like, okay, the other people will remember to need so let's get them some two things or let's like, they must be experiencing these sensory things. So maybe let's try and reduce the sensory or the like the social stress that we've on them. It's like, just never considered. It's like,
00:34:42
Speaker
Exactly. Humans do things for a reason, quite often. Exactly. And that's honestly like one of the things I struggle with, you know, I love my family to death and, you know, I talk to them, I don't hold them accountable because that's not really how you ever move forward in life. So the biggest thing that I struggle with is that they never once to themselves were like, nothing's working, let's try something else.
00:35:06
Speaker
Like that kind of like what you said is like people don't just behave and act the way they do for no reason. And they just assumed that I was just this way for no reason because I'm bipolar and a brat and defiant and I hallucinate and I have cognitive distortions and all of these things that they thought that I was that I'm not. And so that is like the hardest part for me.
00:35:36
Speaker
to have overcome and to not really be upset about because it's like if you really love somebody, people don't do things for no reason like you said and you've been trying one thing for 20 years and nothing got better. You never once asked to yourself, hey, why don't we try something different?
00:35:56
Speaker
don't we go get him reevaluated? Why don't we, you know, ask him actually like what's going on instead of keep doing the same shit and telling him that he's, you know, all of these things and not really offering any help. Yeah. And if I think as well on like the side of resentment as well, I think, like quite often we think of harboring negative emotions to other people that it has some kind of
00:36:24
Speaker
spiritual ephemeral effect on that person to make them feel bad. But quite often, harboring that anger or resentment towards people is actually just affecting you. It's all inside. And the thing is too about autism, I heard the resentment over the person who's parked in my spot today.
00:36:45
Speaker
Yeah. Like I have to constantly like practice forgiveness and acceptance because like it's silly, right? Like to normal people, it's silly. But to me, this person's parked in my spot. I've been parking there for three years. They moved in like a week ago, and now they're parking in my spot. And I like literally want to blow up their car. I will not do it. But like- What executive function about where do I park? Is that going to feel okay? Do I have to move it in differently? Like,
00:37:10
Speaker
Yeah, well, it's my spot to, you know, like, that's the one thing that I can control in this world is where I park at the end of the day, kind of in a way, you know, it's like my routine, it's my, you know, control and I, you know, part of my autism is I deep down like in my bones, it's just the way it is because of my sensory issues and everything together, like, people are extremely dis-regulating. I do not really like people.
00:37:34
Speaker
like deep down, I personally do, but due to the way that my body experiences the world and people, it doesn't like people. And so I'm constantly having to do that. People don't interact with us with the communication style that's most comfortable for us. Like we've got a mold to them. And so like even nice conversations with people is often a drain on our energy. Like
00:38:03
Speaker
You know, it's kind of weird. One of the ways that I think it's easy for me to tell that I'm talking to someone who's ADHD or autistic is that I don't kind of feel this weird, like, sense that I'm out of place. Like, you know, even if I don't know that they're autistic or not, and it doesn't seem like it just the conversation just seems to carry on. And it doesn't feel like
00:38:30
Speaker
I don't know. It's hard to explain. It just flows. It just flows. And also, I don't know about you, but I've not once been wondering when I should speak or feeling bad about if I'm talking at the right time or the wrong time or if it's your turn to say something or not. Because that's part of what's so hard for me with conversation is I just
00:38:52
Speaker
It literally doesn't exist for me and so it's like part of what's so comfortable and why this is a good conversation on my end for sure and maybe you are feeling the same way is just because I don't have to worry about any of that stuff. I'm just talking and you're just talking and if I interrupt you, I got ADHD, that's cool and I have autism so I don't even know when to speak to begin with.
00:39:17
Speaker
I know I know exactly what you mean. It's it's it's kind of hard sometimes when I have neurotypical individuals in or sometimes people who are autistic as well. Like sometimes it definitely it definitely does feel like I need to like put in more of an active effort to
00:39:39
Speaker
like get the conversation like so that I can express myself sometimes. One thing that I did want to bring up is like the fact that I think you said that like using the word retarded was like a common word like when you were growing up. Like yeah you know that's part of what I attribute like um I mean I guess maybe that's part of like how I cope with and
00:40:07
Speaker
move forward and not harbor resentment over my misdiagnosis is that, you know, I was born in 88 in the United States. So, you know, the people first movement for people with R type of disabilities didn't exist until the 2000s, early 2000s. So, you know, between that time period, it's still kind of a really gray time period when it comes to psychology and
00:40:31
Speaker
and medication and all of that stuff. Because that's when things were starting to change, but everything really wasn't changed. And they didn't even have, that's like 30 years of information now at this point. Plus the internet came out in 2000. So you imagine how much information started to come about just from 2000 on. I don't really feel bad. I can't imagine what life would be like not having
00:40:56
Speaker
the ability to access a whole world of autistic people. It's almost like we have our own separate country for people. That's exactly what I'm learning. I go back and forth in my head. If I was diagnosed the right way and when I was younger, if it went like it does now for most people, which I'm so grateful that it goes the way it did for you and
00:41:23
Speaker
That's not to minimize your struggles in any way because we all struggle the same and everyone struggles is bad, but I kind of feel a little bit grateful in a way because I truly do not believe I'd be as functional as I am and I say that with like quotes.
Societal Expectations and Independence
00:41:42
Speaker
If I wasn't born during that time because, you know, I was kicked out of the house, you know, I had no option. It was survive or not. And so,
00:41:53
Speaker
I was gonna survive and I had no choice other than to survive. It was either that or I'm homeless.
00:42:03
Speaker
Yeah, I can't imagine. Yeah. So it's hard for me. You know, it's yeah. And I mean, I wish I had, you know, understanding and all that growing up in the early nineties and that kind of stuff. But, you know, it was tough love back then. And, you know, I was just, I had to survive. That was my goal. That was the only thing I knew up until recently. Yeah. I mean, I, I definitely say that like,
00:42:32
Speaker
The majority of my issues has come from just school, other people, not fitting in, not knowing how to fit in. That's been pretty much the story of my life. And, you know, being depressed is a lot to do. We're depressed because we're too smart. Experience. You know, we know this all makes no sense.
00:43:00
Speaker
For sure, but I think people with autism know that the world doesn't make sense the way that it is. It can be very depressing because when you can see the reality of everything, it's like everyone's doing everything the wrong way all the time. Nobody really cares. The world's on fire and everyone's just having a party. I think that's why maybe we struggle so much because we see the reality of things, I feel.
00:43:31
Speaker
Yeah, I know I was talking to Dr. Meghan Neff on the Different Minds podcast, which I would highly recommend anybody listening to go check that out. But I was talking about my experience because I had a very big fascination with understanding neurotypicals and why they did things. And
00:43:53
Speaker
I kind of got to the conclusion that I think just neurotypicals just don't necessarily care too much for certainty around things. They're very willing to accept things for what they think they are rather than going through and testing it and really getting a concrete answer to things. It's like group conversations.
00:44:18
Speaker
people say things like read the room, all of that stuff. But it's less about the actual content of the conversation. And like, people just kind of emotionally react to each other and quite often
00:44:33
Speaker
people will agree with something if it feels right, not necessarily if it is right. And so you've got lots of situations where you can have a group meeting and you can kind of, you know, I don't really understand what's going on. And there's kind of a lot of
00:44:49
Speaker
different, different things. And like, it just seems like at the end of the meeting, that everyone's on the same page, and they all say that they're on the same page. But they're not. And you talk to individuals from that conversation, they don't know. They just kind of have their own idea of what happened. It's always Yeah, well, those people are very least in fear. Hmm.
00:45:12
Speaker
Most people operate based in fear. That's why nobody really knows how the meeting went because everyone's too afraid to actually say they don't know what's going on and actually talk about it and admit that, hey, this doesn't make sense. Let's talk. I think that's probably a big contributor. There's a song by Incubus called Drive that is pretty pertinent to what you're saying and what we're talking about. I don't know if you've heard it, but
00:45:43
Speaker
essentially the song as you go. That would be good for our end of the episode song. Yeah, that would be. The song basically says, are you going to drive yourself or are you going to let fear, society, expectations, emotions, circumstances drive you? Are you going to actually drive your life or are you just going to allow it to be driven?
00:46:09
Speaker
And I feel like kind of what you're saying, what I'm saying is that, you know, most people just allow their lives to be driven for them. They don't actually do the driving themselves because it's easier to just go along with it than it is to be like, Hey, you know, I don't like the direction things are going. Let me take the wheel here. Yeah. Yeah.
00:46:29
Speaker
And the funny thing is, I haven't heard anyone say this before, but I've been on YouTube a lot, and there's a lot of things going around. You had this whole alpha male space idea concept that came up.
00:46:47
Speaker
and then sort of more recently you've had this idea of like a sigma male that's come up and like I'm pretty convinced that like sigma males or like the way that people characterize it I think it's just autistic people like just explain more what a sigma male is for me because I'm not too kind of yeah it's um it's just curious and they did you know
00:47:12
Speaker
Well, alpha alpha male, this information, I don't know. Well, the alpha was kind of this idea of this larger than life person that goes and like, dominates and controls everybody in a social setting and say, like, someone who wants to have full control over their life, but doesn't impose it on other people. So it's, it's, it's very, I mean,
00:47:40
Speaker
It's similar, but the slight difference is power is what I hear. And you're not wanting to enforce your way of being on other people, but you won't like...
00:47:55
Speaker
let people have that on you. And I was just thinking like, oh, that sounds very PDA, like, don't want to do things, but I'm so PDA it. I, um, yeah, no, I totally am. I co I have to cope with it all the time. You know, like even work, like I have a great employer. I love my job. I choose my job, all that stuff, but it's a demand. And like, I'd rather just not, you know, like,
00:48:20
Speaker
And as silly as that is, and I can do all the CBT. I love work. It provides me money, which lets me do XYZ. And it makes me happy. I make other people happy. It gives me something good to do during the day. But just deep down in my autism bones and the way that it works, it's a demand. I'm forced to work because, like I said, this world is
00:48:44
Speaker
designed really dumb. We should not be forced to be tied to a building for eight hours a day just to have a roof over our heads and be able to provide food and eat and drink. All that is just so
00:48:58
Speaker
silly to me, like it's basic human needs that we're talking about. And we have to literally forfeit eight hours of our lives every day, regardless of whether or not it's something you enjoy doing. You still have to do that in order to have money to pay for things that you need to live. That's just useful. Yeah. Yeah. It's just so silly to me. You know, I don't know. No, I completely got that. So PDAs for anybody kind of
00:49:27
Speaker
the idea of PDA pathological demand avoidance, it's not necessarily a aggressive sort of defensive kind of mindset. It's very much based on expectations that people have on you and expectations that people put on you because people with PDA a lot of anxiety, so they tend to naturally just have an aversion to
00:49:49
Speaker
That you know so a lot of the ways that you get through it with kids who are PDA is that you suggest things or is that you have a conversation and you decide things together or like So usually even suggesting things to me is doesn't work
00:50:07
Speaker
Like you have to be very, you know, I'm like, you know, my PDF is so bad. Like if I'm unregulated and like my girl is like, Hey, you know, I, why don't, you know, have you thought about maybe doing this? I'll be like, I don't want to hear a word you just said. Like you just, you're trying to influence what I'm going through right now. Like my brain just immediately is like, I don't care.
00:50:29
Speaker
You see it's a complex PDA. Yeah, and I have to get to a certain point in my regulation stages to be able to hear something like that. But what does work for me as silly as it is, especially if it's my wife who I love and trust, is if she just does whatever it is she's trying to ask me to do, then because I love her and she's the person for me, my body is just like, okay,
00:50:54
Speaker
So the PDA, you can't ask or suggest me something, but if you just do it, then it's OK. It tends to be with a lot of adults that I know with PDA. I don't know many, to be honest. I know a few. But for me, it's a lot easier when people ask me for help. They're like, can you help me with this? I'm like, oh, yeah, I'd love to help you with that. That'd be great.
00:51:22
Speaker
It has to be a question. It has to be like a genuine like, like I can, I can tell like yourself when people are trying to get around you PDA. But if someone's like, can you help me with this? It's like, it's pretty cool.
00:51:35
Speaker
Yeah, I struggle with that at work too, like all the time. My boss is, you know, and he's, I love my boss. And I told him today, like, I'm so grateful and I'll talk amazing about him and the place that I work on this podcast. And I hope he listens because he's a larger reason why I'm here today. You know, he pays for my health care for me. He's accommodating. I wear, I literally wear sunglasses and earbuds and a hat all day at work interacting with clients and patients and,
00:52:01
Speaker
he just, he lets me be me and I do a great job. And that's kind of the give and take with autism and ADHD, right? It's like, if you just kind of let us do our thing and be who we need to be and do what we need to do, we'll be some of the best people you'll ever have in your life. But we do have a certain set of requirements that we need to live by in a certain way of operating that needs to be respected.
00:52:24
Speaker
And even though I say all of that, and I love my boss, still to this day, he comes up to me and he asks me to do something. And he asks me nice. And my insides are like, fuck you, dude. That's the demand. Even though it's my job, even though I love you, my insides are like, I don't want to hear that shit. And then I take a deep breath, use a little bit of coping skills, and I go ahead and I do what I need to do. But then that's sometimes where, you know, my autism will
00:52:54
Speaker
kind of get in the way because it kind of builds up over time all these demands, you know, and then like all melt down not because I've had a bad day but because it's just like I've had so many demands on me and I've hoped for so long that it just my body has to get rid of it somehow.
00:53:11
Speaker
Yeah, deep breathing is helpful in those situations. I guess somewhat along the lines of that, would you be happy with moving to the next question? Or just that? Yeah, whatever you feel. I'm sorry. We're just having a good time, I feel. Yeah, right. No. Actually, I'm not okay with that. Whatever you say, Thomas. Just ask me the question. If you just asked it, it'd be fine. Okay.
00:53:42
Speaker
So I know you said that you were diagnosed kind of with bipolar when you were younger, but I'd really like to understand like the medication aspect of things, the therapy aspect of things as someone who is, you know, looking back at it as someone who was, you know, diagnosed autistic, it's good to, it'd be cool to like understand, I guess, what that experience is like for you. Like,
00:54:13
Speaker
It's just, there's just so much to embalm there. Um, to maybe, maybe constantly being gas lit, I guess, you know, constantly being gas lit would be maybe the best word, but, um, yeah, no, like it was just all so crazy. Cause, um, I.
00:54:37
Speaker
was like 12 when they put me on medication, which is still way too young. By psychology standards and law today actually says you can't put anyone under the age of 16 on any type of antidepressant or antipsychotic medication or anti-seizure unless they actually have a seizure disorder. So at 12 I was put on, I believe Depico was the first medication I was put on.
00:55:07
Speaker
And then I didn't react well to that. Then I was put on another one. I'm not 100% sure. Trillipital, I think. That's the one I ended on. Yeah, so there was like Depokote and that was horrible. And then there was another one in between Depokote and Triliptal. And
00:55:29
Speaker
That one was horrible too. And then triliptal. And this was all to like help regulate my mood, right? Because they think I have a mood disorder, not realizing that I have a regulation disorder, not a mood disorder, right? Like, I'm always in a good mood, to be honest with you generally. Like, I'm just a happy, okay, like I want to be here. I like to be here type person. That's why it's been so hard to not
00:55:53
Speaker
find any relief because deep down I'm a loving, you know, I want to be here type of a guy. So I never had a mood disorder. It was a regulation problem, right? You know, regulations different than mood. I can regulate my mood, but I can't regulate emotions. And that's different. So they were putting me on the mood stabilizers and they didn't work. And triloopdol is an anticonvulsant and mood stabilizer. They put me on that one.
00:56:22
Speaker
Yeah, and it worked because it slowed down my brain, right? So it's like the first student worked because they were true mood stabilizers and antipsychotics, and then they used an anticonvulsant, which is mainly for people with seizures and triliptal, which slows down your brain's neurons and all that stuff, the neural synaptic connections.
00:56:45
Speaker
That helped not because I had a regulated mood, but because it dulled down all my sensory issues and it dulled down the speed at which my thoughts can form and how I can move and pretty much everything.
00:57:02
Speaker
and they started at a low dose and over the years still having regulation behavior issues because nothing ever got fixed because I wasn't bipolar. I had a regulation problem. I had autism and ADHD and really bad PDA and my family would make it worse.
00:57:20
Speaker
And so I would be going to therapy this whole time on these medications, and the therapist would be like, yeah, so we're here today. And I talked with your mom and dad for 15 minutes before therapy. They said, at dinner, you got extremely irritable, and you threw the salt at the wall, and you stormed off, and you slammed your door, and then you started screaming in your room.
00:57:45
Speaker
And they're like, that's not acceptable behavior. What's your explanation as to why?
00:57:51
Speaker
And, you know, I would be like, like, yeah, well, and so this is what I would say. I'm like, I didn't do anything wrong. So my dad, I'm eating, I would be like, I'm eating, I remember this, like, because I do remember certain things, but I'd be like, I'm just eating my dinner, you know, after school, after baseball, I'm just having dinner, having my food. And then my dad asks me to pass the salt. And I'm just like, here,
00:58:17
Speaker
And I just kind of give it to him. And he's like, what the fuck's with your attitude? Like, why are you just being like, so defined, just being like here and throwing it at me like that? Like, what the hell is wrong with you? And I'm like, nothing, you asked for the salt. Here's the salt.
00:58:31
Speaker
What's up with your tone, Brandon? Why are you being defined like that and being so mean to me and like thrown and thrown the salt? I'm not. I'm eating. You asked me for salt. Here's my salt. Like not realizing that I'm in my own world, right? Tone and body language aren't natural. So I'm in my own world eating dinner after school. My dad asked me for the salt. So I'm just like, yeah, here, here you go.
00:58:55
Speaker
No bottle effect as well. It was school, like you kind of fake regulation. You kind of bottle up all the stresses from school and then, you know, after school or after, after work, even like.
00:59:09
Speaker
if you don't have that time to regulate, it can all just just blow up or like you can even just feel safe in that environment to some degree or like comfortable. And then that just kind of allows you to let the pressure off of it and it all just kind of bubbles out. And that's exactly what happened why that would happen at dinner, right? Because exactly like you said, like I'm in my own world, I'm self regulating. Dad asked me for salt, I give it to him, but I'm autistic. So I my body language and tone aren't correct.
00:59:37
Speaker
and maybe the behavior of the way I gave it to him wasn't, then he's now telling me I'm defiant and I'm, you know, a lot of these things that I'm not, I'm saying no. He's getting louder, which is now causing for like auditory overstimulation, plus emotions make me very dysregulated. I can feel that he's angry. It's freaking out my brain. He's telling me I'm bad for throwing the salt. I just got done with school. I'm trying to regulate. So you know what? I'm going to throw the salt now.
01:00:03
Speaker
because he's telling me that I'm throwing the salt. I'm pissed off at this point. It's been too much and now I'm having a meltdown. I throw the salt at the wall. I take my dinner. I throw it at the wall and I go up into my room and mock the door. And then I tell this to my therapist, what happens? And then they're like, you're wrong. You're hallucinating. That's not reality. You need to be nicer. You need to pay attention more.
01:00:27
Speaker
there's words and words and volume can't make you feel and do things like that you're having hallucinations and cognitive distortions yeah and it's it's interesting about like the way that you're talking about tone because i think quite often a lot of autistic people
01:00:45
Speaker
Like we, because we have a lot of experiences where like, we don't understand, I guess exactly what, where the tone is coming from, but we do notice that something's different. And, you know, one of the things that just from going up and going for experiences, like any change in tone that isn't just overly, like if someone's just talking overly positive and then there is a change in tone,
01:01:11
Speaker
like I just assume that something bad's really happened. Or like, my stomach drops with me. Yeah, it's just like you just kind of get this empty feeling in the back of your head, you start dissociating a little bit, you're like, what's going on? And then you ask them. My wife gets frustrated with me sometimes. I'm always asking. If they don't give you a
01:01:32
Speaker
reasonable explanation for it and they don't explain it or they're just saying like, oh, it's fine. It makes it worse. And you're like, well, if something's happening, I don't know what it is. You're not telling me. So like, please do. Please. I'm really happy to hear you saying this. Yeah.
01:01:51
Speaker
Because that's exactly what happens to me. And this is the first time I've ever really spoken with someone like this who has autism as well. So you just explaining that to me and the people listening, hopefully it helps them as well. But that's exactly what happens to me too. So it's cool to hear somebody else for the first time really say that in a conversation.
01:02:19
Speaker
that happens with my wife at home all the time. Sometimes it causes problems, you know, and it's like not even really her fault, right? Because we'll just be having a conversation and then
01:02:31
Speaker
her tone or her voice will change very slightly. Yeah, just something slight. And then literally I have that panic and I'm like, what's wrong? And she's like, nothing. And I'm like, but your tone changed, but nothing's wrong. And then I'm still, I'm doing what you're saying. I'm like, well, something's wrong because that wasn't normal. That's not how it usually sounds like.
01:02:52
Speaker
you know, because I still like I don't know what any of it means. And my brain understands like the rhythm and the pattern of it. So if the rhythm or pattern is off, even in just a slight amount, whether it's the body language, like you said, or the tone or the cadence in which someone's speaking, then it trips everything off. And there could be completely no reason other than maybe they needed to take another breath or they needed to, you know, think about a word before they spoke it.
01:03:19
Speaker
add a different four about something and they were like, oh, well, that doesn't sound good. Like just a random four or like, you know, maybe they're thinking about work tomorrow or like, but because they don't always express it directly. It's like, it's, it's a lot. And yeah, it's.
01:03:37
Speaker
I mean, you're so sensitive to people having negative reactions to you. It's, it's almost like being at you are like this kind of being sensitive, but it's not like in like a needy way. I guess it's like, you just need to know what's going on. So I'm safe and I know how to behave. Yeah. Yeah. That's really what happened. What it is for me. Like I know how to act. I need to know how to act. I need to know what to expect so I can react.
01:04:03
Speaker
Sure, sure. What about like sport, baseball and gym and things like that? Because I know that when we when we spoke, you were telling me about saved my life. So the role that yeah, that it played in played for you. And so I think you told me about sort of some of the issues that happened around college and university.
01:04:26
Speaker
Which, you know, so I guess like it would be good to to know more about the sports side of things, but also a bit about uni life. Yeah, no, honestly, I'll briefly touch on sport.
01:04:42
Speaker
not because it doesn't mean anything, but because the gym and training is much bigger than baseball ever was for me. And I'll use baseball as a way to get into university. So, you know, baseball is kind of what got me through, you know, school, honestly, you know, just that whole time period between
01:05:01
Speaker
you know, being a child in early 20s, you know, and going to college, it was my thing. I've always loved to be physically active. I've always needed to, as you know, I'm sitting here the whole time moving. I just am always on the go.
01:05:17
Speaker
And so baseball was yeah, exactly. Exactly. And so, you know, baseball was huge for me gave me that outlet. It was an amazing sport. You know, it had social rules, right? We were all talking about the same things. We were all doing the same things.
01:05:36
Speaker
It was, you know, it made sense. And I had friends because of it and all that stuff. And I was really, really good at it. And going into high school, I was great. I was getting scattered by colleges. You know, high school is too much. I hate it. So all I did was really focus on baseball. I didn't really pay attention in class. I didn't care about anything, not because I'm not smart, but, you know, all my diagnosis is and misdiagnosis at the same time. You know, I just didn't care. I wasn't really capable of caring.
01:06:06
Speaker
And I just focus on baseball.
Exercise and Physical Activity
01:06:09
Speaker
And it's really good for making friends because on one level is something that you're interested in. So you're like, oh, these people are interested. I can talk about this, but also the endorphins that you get, like the release of anandamide in your system from like getting high from exercise. You know, it's, it's good. It's like a social lubricant, like, like alcohol, but it's like a natural kind of thing.
01:06:35
Speaker
So I'm numb to that. It's so weird. The way that things present to me is my reward system isn't really the best.
01:06:51
Speaker
Like I'm usually just happy I did a good job and I did something that I wanted to do because my executive functioning is crap and both my diagnoses make doing things kind of difficult. Not that I'm not capable and I don't have fun internally, but
01:07:13
Speaker
there's never like that big dopamine reward for me because I'm putting in so much effort to get everything done that that's kind of where all of that goes, is the act of doing the event. There's nothing left over when it's over with. I just did it all. But it does something for me when I'm not doing it anymore. So if I wasn't physically active and I didn't train like I did,
01:07:39
Speaker
I wouldn't be as okay as I am when I'm not training. So that's why I do what I do and I love to do it, not because of how I feel after, but because I know how I'm going to act and behave once I do do it.
01:07:55
Speaker
And that's been something that's really hard for me with my diagnosis is to just get things done in general. Because how hard is it to rely on three weeks in the future all the time? Because that's what it takes with working out. It takes about three weeks, four weeks for you to really see and feel the difference in your everyday life. And that's how most things are in life. I don't really get that
01:08:22
Speaker
you know, initial, oh, you know, I did a good photo shoot today, and, you know, made a few hundred dollars, and they love my pictures, like, whoa, like, that's not that does like, I did a good job, I got money, and someone's happy. Cool. Like, you know, so it's weird for me with that. But yeah, now that you mentioned it, it is very much like,
01:08:47
Speaker
I think maybe it's an elixophimic thing. It probably is. I mean, it pretty much leaks into every area of my life.
01:08:55
Speaker
Oh no, it does. It should. I probably do feel quite good, but I don't recognize that I do. And so I don't internalize that. It's very much a thing of, right, I've ticked off my list, I feel comfortable that I've done the thing that I do. And that's good. It's like your routine thing. Yeah. It's good for you. You train really well. I was like, cool.
01:09:22
Speaker
Thanks. I'm like, get away from me. Get the fuck out of here. I'm training. But training and baseball, man, they were everything to me. And I'm a big proponent of people in general training, but I really do believe that people with autism need to. I think it's a need. I do not think it's- It's still regulating.
01:09:48
Speaker
It needs to be done and what you overcome when you're doing it is translatable to everything, right? So instead of going to therapy and doing exposure therapy to sound, let's go to the gym and train. Let's do exposure therapy doing something positive.
01:10:05
Speaker
you know, with your time and with your body and with your mind around a group of people who are there to do something similar to you and that are there to help you and people who, you know, are like you. And why don't we do it that way instead of, you know, like I said, sitting in the therapy room and listening to different sounds and like, you know, kids aren't going to be as successful. It doesn't even work like with the lacing. Not at all. We don't. It didn't work with me.
01:10:34
Speaker
We don't habituate like it being exposed to things over a long period of time. Usually people habituate to it and stop like.
01:10:43
Speaker
kind of experiencing it to an extent, or like the brain tunes out. But for us, it's not like that. Exactly. And I mean, that's why I wear earbuds when I'm training. I'm wearing sunglasses now, even inside when it's cloudy talking to you. Because it makes my eyes hurt. And then that makes my overstimulation levels get out of whack. But
01:11:09
Speaker
training, people need to do it. There's a hard line when it comes to autism and sensory sensitivities and stuff like that. There's a hard line between let's make sure that you're safe and you feel good and let's make sure that you don't allow this to dictate your future and dictate how you act and how you live in this world.
01:11:37
Speaker
you know, there are certain things that are disabling to me, but they're not because of my sensory problems or because of my PDA or anything, because I will not let anything get in my way of doing what I want to do, regardless of what that thing is. Like, I'll light myself on fire to do what I want to do. And
01:12:02
Speaker
You know, that's something that I hope that I can maybe bring to this community isn't necessarily, you know, that these struggles aren't real because they are and that it doesn't hurt and that it isn't overstimulating and that you're not maybe going to have a meltdown when it's over with when you're at home, but that it's worth it because
01:12:20
Speaker
either in my mind, you light yourself on fire or you sit at home and drown. There's no in between. So, you know, light yourself on fire and do something you want to do because either way you're drowning it at home. And, you know, there's just got to be a way to, you know, help people with that, I feel.
01:12:42
Speaker
Yeah, I think there's definitely like, as you said, things that you can do to help yourself. And like, I think especially starting things that are new to you, you know, taking it slowly once you get into it, but you know, just the general experience of going to the gym, like,
01:13:01
Speaker
or even with fighting, to be honest, I've never had an experience where, you know, I've had meltdowns, I've had panic attacks before fights. I really enjoy doing it, but it's just a lot of pressure on me. It's more of the social pressure and the expectation that you put on yourself. Social pressure and expectation. And so, you know,
01:13:21
Speaker
that sometimes called that, but I never pulled out of a competition. I've been kicked extremely hard. I never pulled out of that fight. I never, you know, at the gym, there's only been probably a couple of times that I've stopped working out because of like the sensory or the social environment.
01:13:42
Speaker
But that's because, you know, I couldn't speak and I couldn't move and, you know, I had to go. And that's what I mean. Like sometimes that's like, that's going to happen. But wouldn't you rather that happen than be drowning at the house? You know, like not doing anything. And also what happens when you're at home? I should be doing something. I should be at the gym. I should do this. I should do that. That's what I mean by drowning. So like either you light yourself on fire and maybe that happens to you, you know, and you handle it the way you need to. You go home, you know, and that's going to be OK.
01:14:12
Speaker
but you're not drowning. You at least tried. Yeah. Well, I, I guess sort of on a similar note to that. I mean, I think we were talking about, yeah, I'm sorry. I'm not answering your questions directly. No, no, it's fine. We're just, I'm just flowing with, you know, no, don't worry about it, man. Um, it's, uh, I suppose it's, it's different, like in, in a different way, I suppose. Cause you were talking about sort of staying at home and drowning.
01:14:39
Speaker
I have a lot of experience with that. And, you know, being in those states where you don't have a routine because you can't cope and you can't cope because you don't have a routine. And it's overwhelming to even create a routine because you're in such a bad space. Yeah, I get you.
01:14:55
Speaker
and you reach for those kind of blanket methods that are quite easy to reduce your overall anxiety or negative feelings. For me it was nicotine or alcohol was something that I picked up at university that I did for quite a while which wasn't
01:15:15
Speaker
healthy, like not in like a party way, like a home kind of I need to try and relax that kind of way.
Social Norms and Alcohol Use
01:15:23
Speaker
I know that you mentioned that you had some experiences with alcohol and potentially like some liver issues due to like the medication interactions.
01:15:33
Speaker
Yeah, so thanks for circling me back to, you know, baseball and high school in college. So yeah, no, college, right? So I graduated high school, 1.7 GPA, baseball was life, couldn't play in college because of it. And so I go to a four-year university. Somehow I got into a four-year university. I have absolutely no clue how most likely my mom was a large part of it because she was a counselor and in the school systems for a long time. Yeah, I think you mentioned that.
01:16:03
Speaker
Yeah, no, she's why I graduated. They weren't going to graduate me from this private school because of how poor I behaved and how bad my grades were. But she was able to get me to graduate, which is cool. And then she also got me into a four year university. But I stopped playing baseball, you know, so I like kind of had no reason to live in my mind. I'm
01:16:22
Speaker
at university for my first semester and it's all way too much. I'm by myself for the first time. I'm not playing sports. I'm in the middle of strangers and fraternity is like, hey, come be friends with us and drink. And I'm like, all right, that's pretty simple. I just drink and hang out with frat bros and girls. That makes sense. And so that's essentially what I did.
01:16:46
Speaker
the entire semester. Looking back at it, it wasn't to try to cope with how I was feeling. It was because I thought that's what I wanted to fit it. School was too much. Going to class, navigating campus, all of that was overwhelming and too much, but I really wanted friends. I was upset because I wasn't playing baseball and that's what everyone was doing and everybody liked me when I was drinking.
01:17:16
Speaker
After a while, I noticed it made the autism a little bit worse or a little bit easier to deal with, but it wasn't like the initial thing. It was just trying to fit into a new world where I had no clue. I think it's something that I learned over a period of time.
01:17:35
Speaker
It's not necessarily that alcohol helped me socialize more. I think it maybe gave me a bit of relief from anxiety. But I think the thing that I like the most about the party, like house party kind of atmosphere of things is because people were so much more relaxed and expressive.
01:17:54
Speaker
Like people, I could see what people were thinking and the way that people said stuff on their face so easily. That was too much. That's too much for me. They're too much for you. Yeah. I'm like, oh my God. Like these people that I've been talking to in the sober state for a while and now they're drinking and like expressing all these emotions. I understand that. I understand like where they, what, what they're trying to get across to me a bit more.
01:18:20
Speaker
Yeah, I still didn't. It was still too much for me. And drinking parties for me, it was because they had rules. And that's where friends were. And that's how friends drank. I don't know if I want to say bad, because I don't want to say autism is bad. But in terms of my level with autism, it's at the point where I was doing these things.
01:18:46
Speaker
not for any other reason other than because I was trying to fit in and do the right thing and then things made sense to me. We went to the party, everybody drank, everyone's going to behave and act this way. I might have sex with somebody that would be cool. It's like I know what to expect. I know how to act and people are pretty nice to me when I'm drunk. Why don't I just keep doing this and acting this way because it's how everyone acts when they're drunk and
01:19:13
Speaker
you know, that's why I did what I did. It wasn't, you know, necessarily to, uh, to cope. But like I said, like the more I did it in college, the more I felt that it helped me cope with autism. And so it turned from being just this thing to try to fit in. And, you know, it made sense to me to, you know, I want to be doing this all the time because, you know, maybe like I can interact with people when I'm not at parties and like, you know, maybe I can be okay, like in public and stuff. And,
01:19:42
Speaker
You know, that's when my liver started to fail because I was on, you know, triliptal, which is going through the liver. Yeah. And so it wasn't a good combination. And I got really sick. Luckily I did. I stopped drinking right away because, you know, I realized what was happening and I was really scared. I gained about 50 pounds at that point.
01:20:05
Speaker
And about two weeks after my recovery, I was at home. I didn't go to a spring semester in college. I took it off. I worked at a restaurant as a dishwasher, which was too much.
01:20:21
Speaker
Oh my god, it was terrible. My parents made me do it. They're like, you're not in school, you gotta work. Like, you know, that's what I mean. I had no choice other than to survive with the way that I was raised. So, you know, here I am as a dishwatt, you know, and so I took the semester off and two weeks after, um,
01:20:38
Speaker
having that scare is what I told you on the phone too is like that's when I made the choice that I was going to take as much control over my life as possible and I was going to get in good shape and I was going to eat better and I was really in love with Arnold Schwarzenegger like most people during that time and Lou Ferrigno and
01:21:03
Speaker
Sylvester Stallone because I grew up on Rocky movies. I was born in 88 and just like that macho man type of action hero and I'm autistic too. So it's like these guys are healthy. They look good. They have good lives. They're not drinking. They're not doing drugs. They have wives. They have girls. They have success. So
01:21:25
Speaker
You know, like I'm going to take care of myself and this is going to be, you know, it makes sense to me. Let me start training. Let me take care of my body. Let me take care of my mind, you know, and take control of this. I feel like autistic people are designed for sport because like how else are you going to find someone who's just going to hyper focus on something on a regular basis and like you don't have to encourage them to do it? Like they want to.
01:21:54
Speaker
I mean, my PDA is so bad that I hate competition because I don't want to be forced to perform. I want to do as good as I can and better than anyone else just because I want to, not because I have to beat you. You know what I mean? If you're like, I need you to do this and show me how good you are, I'm like, no, no thanks. Won't do it. I was like that with... I mean, I wasn't so much like that in international competitions because
01:22:22
Speaker
I didn't know anybody.
01:22:25
Speaker
And I didn't really care about what the person that was fighting thought about me. But in local competitions, I've had some of the head coaches come up to me and talk to me at training camps. And I say, Thomas, you perform really well when you're actually in competitions against people abroad and stuff. But just generally, when you fight people in training or you fight people at local competitions, you just don't seem to be as
01:22:55
Speaker
Like i just i basically just used as an opportunity to get my anger and frustration out about life.
01:23:05
Speaker
So, you know, that's why I struggled with baseball. Yeah. Yeah. I was hit as hard as you can just like, it's like depression bowl. Yeah. Right. Like I would get angry at the people I was pitching, you know, cause I was a pitcher. So I'd get angry, you know, when I was pitching and try to throw the ball through.
01:23:27
Speaker
you know, so hard that it just went all over the place. But then, you know, the other part of it too is like, you know, I liked to play baseball, like I said, because it's fun and I enjoy it. And I like to be good at it because I like to be good at it, not because
01:23:42
Speaker
you want me to be good at it or not because the game needs to be one not cuz like I need to strike this guy out but like cuz I want to like I like it I'm good at it I'm gonna strike him out because I want to strike not because the coach tells me to not because you know I need to or else we're gonna lose the game like I'm doing this cuz this is what I want to do and then once it changed from that to we've got to win this game Brandon get your head together like you've got it perfect like you know you have to perform today like
01:24:12
Speaker
Excuse me, I'm here to have fun and do my thing. I'm not going to do that at all. The way that people train me, they pretty much don't do anything with me because they don't need to. My baseline level of training is go as hard as you can. As soon as I get in there, we're just warming up, having a jog, I'm sprinting around in a circle just to
01:24:40
Speaker
But I don't know whether that's because I want to or I just don't want people to tell me that I'm doing something wrong or I'm not trying hard enough for. So it's almost like a preemptive way of avoiding those PDA situations. It's just like Thomas do this a bit differently or just kick a bit harder and I'm just like,
01:24:59
Speaker
What do you mean? No, I'm not going to. It totally could be that. Just ignore them, give them backchat. Like when you go hard in your training, like when I'm physically training, I go really, really hard because I love to, but also because
01:25:27
Speaker
this is kind of the weird gift with autism for me. I can't tell when my muscles are tired. Yeah, me too. I can't. I'm not very good with blimp. Doesn't feel heavy after a certain point in time. Once I'm going and I'm in the zone and I'm training, you could put 800 pounds on my back and ask
Physical Limits and Gym Training
01:25:45
Speaker
me to squat and it'll feel like 500 because I'm just
01:25:48
Speaker
I'm in the zone, like, and then once it's over with, then I'll be hurt, then like, oh, did too much. But when I'm actually doing it, I don't get that tired sensation from my body until I literally can't move. So it's taken a while for me to learn how to train like, yeah, no, I mean, well, and I like the pain actually, too.
01:26:10
Speaker
Yeah, well, it's twofold. I like the pain a lot. I don't know why, but I really like the pain of training. I think maybe just because it helps me to be present and it's the one type of pain that I can control. I control this pain that I put myself through, whereas
01:26:29
Speaker
you know, the pain of the world and my sensory issues and my executive functioning problems, like I cannot control that. So, you know, why don't I put myself through the most painful shit as possible every single day on purpose. So that way, like everything else is just kind of like
01:26:46
Speaker
you know, a part of it, I guess. And yeah, it makes me feel present. And so like, I like the pain and, you know, sometimes, like, I can just completely ignore it too. And so I only stop when my muscles literally are like, like, I'll go to get another rep and the bar just like will not move. And then I'm like, help, brother. I'm lucky that my body allows for it.
01:27:15
Speaker
And it's taken me a long time to learn how to make it sustainable because I got a lot of, I accrued a lot of injuries over my career with weight training because of the autism, like not knowing when to stop, not knowing what too much is and just loving it and doing it too much. And then also here's the flip side. I didn't know how to move my body because it's not instinctual to me.
01:27:38
Speaker
So like in my mind, I'm mimicking like videos and pictures of people doing the exercises while I'm doing it. But that's not how your body moves. That's how it looks in the mirror on TV. And so I'm doing it wrong, even though it looks right on video. But it's not because I'm not doing it right. And so I've I got really hurt for a long time. And that's another reason why I'm lucky to be working where I work at timeline, because it's a physical therapy sports performance practice. And
01:28:07
Speaker
He noticed right away, my body did not move the right way. And he's like, I'm going to give you free treatment until we fix this. And so he's treated me for free and taught me how to use my body the right way and improve my motor patterns and teach me how to program the right amount of exercise so I can still exhaust myself the way that I like to, but that it's not negatively impacting my health.
01:28:34
Speaker
Yeah. Sorry for, I just wanted to make sure I get all this out because part of my ADHD is like, if I don't just let the train roll, like it's not going to roll anymore.
01:28:47
Speaker
Yeah, so it trainings everything to me and it taught me my social skills too. That's another reason why training means so much and I encourage people with autism to train because it was kind of the last thing for me. I was fired from pretty much every job that I ever had because
01:29:08
Speaker
but not pretty much. I was fired from every job I ever had, even jobs at the gym because of the autism and not following social rules and breaking the rules even though they weren't rules. I'd break company rules that weren't written rules and then I'd get in trouble or they'd be like, hey, you did this wrong and my PDA would be like, no, I didn't and then I'd get in trouble.
01:29:32
Speaker
And the gym was the one place that taught me these social skills, that taught me how to better myself. It did make me feel better. What I learned in the gym with the discipline translated into life was like the meals and just being disciplined in my routines. And I was kind of okay for a while being missed diagnosis bipolar in the gym industry.
01:29:55
Speaker
And then it was the one place I could work where I could overcome all of my autism symptoms because I love the gym that much. It's my special interest. So I can follow dumb rules because I love the gym and I want to help people train in the gym. But even that wasn't enough after a while. I got fired from every gym job I had until I worked at this place called Soldier Fit.
01:30:19
Speaker
Danny Farrar owns that company. Harry Santucci owned the location that he hired me at, but I would not be who I am today if it wasn't for this organization as well. He hired me as a general manager and the first year,
01:30:39
Speaker
was so hard for me because I had autism and I didn't know it. And so he's having to teach me how to talk to customers and how to talk to employees and how to sell memberships and how to behave myself and all of this stuff. And luckily, because it was a military company, they had all of these videos on training for how to talk to customers, how to talk to
01:31:03
Speaker
your employees, how to sell memberships, how to do, yeah, literal blueprints to life. And then not only that, but they provided me books. They gave me books to read that helped me learn how to have conversations and how the world works and how money works and how businesses work. And so I'm learning all of these amazing skills that they're working with me on for four years.
01:31:28
Speaker
And that's really what helped me to be functional because before that, I had no clue about anything because nobody ever really took the time to teach me these things. And somehow I found that in a small business in Northern Virginia.
01:31:47
Speaker
And then again, I found it, you know, down here in Florida, uh, working for, uh, timeline. And so I'm just very grateful, you know, for the gym and that's, you know, why I encourage people to, to get into it because it's a great environment, um, saved my life, taught me everything that I know.
01:32:07
Speaker
Definitely. I think, you know, spot of any kind, as I said, great for finding people, good similar interests to you. What's your favorite body part to train? Actually, my least favorite is arms. I really don't like training like isolation exercises with arms. I just find it
01:32:31
Speaker
I don't know what is boring. They're so small. It's such a like to me, it's such a small body. It's like almost a waste of time. They're like so small. I'd rather train legs or my back something that you lift a lot with.
01:32:45
Speaker
Yeah, mostly compounds, to be honest. I really like, at the moment, the AD press. Very high incline press. That's been really fun for me. I really like doing wide grip pull-ups at the moment. I maxed out the lap pull-down machine a few years back.
01:33:11
Speaker
15 reps on the next one, all the pins, the whole stack. Yeah. I actually couldn't do it anymore now because I was, I think I weighed about 140 kilos. Then I was quite, quite hefty. Um, in a, in a fat way as well. Um, but I'll forgive you. So I can actually pull it down, but it got to a point where I had to get my dad to like hang on the bar so that I could pull it down and get it like set up. Um, so I was just like, all right, I need to find something else to do. And.
01:33:41
Speaker
wide-grip pull-ups, they're absolutely devastating for, like, my back. It's just crazy. Oh, they're horrible.
01:33:50
Speaker
in a good way, horribly good. I love the ones that hurt the most. I always put myself in pain, man. I love barbell squats, deadlifts. I love deadlifts, don't like squats. Heavy barbell rows. I only like squats because my wife told me I had small calves four years ago.
01:34:15
Speaker
I'm not even kidding. I'm posing in front of her like every dude does in front of their girl or their guy at some point, whoever their significant other is. I'm like, what do you think? You think I look good? Is there anything on me that you think I need to fix? She's like, no, you're beautiful, honey. I'm like, no, criticize me. Give me some criticism. I'm taking her on, exactly. She's like, well, your calves are small.
01:34:42
Speaker
I'm not speaking to you for a week. Go away." And then I started squatting. But when you do that, I think it... Yeah, even to a certain extent, it's almost... I think sometimes when I ask for negative criticism and people don't give it, I don't believe them.
01:35:02
Speaker
But if they give me at least something to work on, I'm kind of like, okay, right. So that's what I need to work on. And I'm like, okay, okay, I can work on that. That sounds good to me.
01:35:14
Speaker
I'm very happy doing that. I think I was the same way with my chest. I'm really shoulder tricep dominant. Very much so. But the chest exercises have always been quite difficult.
01:35:35
Speaker
I think, to be honest, I like most exercises that are just those compound moves. I am actually liking upright rows quite a lot, because I can load them quite heavy with like a cable. And they hit my lateral heads and my shoulders. So that's good. And they also hit my traps. And I think some people have shoulder issues with doing them. But I think it's a little bit demonized to some extent. Shoulder issues because they're not real.
01:36:06
Speaker
do them properly or like even, um, uh, red out flies. Like I don't feel ready. I don't do them properly. Um, I literally like, do you not like the old school, um, chest expanders that you can get?
01:36:22
Speaker
Yeah, they were like the springs where you just like pull them apart like that. Well, I was really, I started doing them as like singles at a time. So I started like just pulling them apart using like my entire upper back and my shoulders and stuff and then letting go.
01:36:40
Speaker
I did that for ages and at this point because it's like a dual machine so you can do the chest exercises and you can go up to like 130 kilos, 134 or something on this machine and that's mostly for the chest but because I've been doing this movement for so long and just being like
01:37:04
Speaker
properly just pulling it apart for strength. I can do like 134, like 15 reps, five sets with the red out flight, just like properly going for it. So I'm very proud of that. Like it's, I find it quite, I have weird movements. I got to fly you over here so we can train, fly you across the pond.
01:37:28
Speaker
and get an obsession together. That would be awesome. No, I really would love to train with you. I love training, man. It's like, I don't know, I just love it too much. And like, that's honestly, it's something I felt horrible about, you know, up until recently with therapy, you know, because I talked to you about this on the phone a little bit, you know, part of why I started training and part of why you said you got into Taekwondo was like, you know, to kind of fend off
01:37:54
Speaker
bullies and to fend off anyone who would want to bother me. Let's get as big as I can and people leave me alone. Also, I just loved it so much at the end of the day. I'm feeling like about myself because I'm like,
01:38:11
Speaker
Why do I love training so much? It doesn't make any sense to me. I love this one thing. It's realistic self-torture. If I couldn't do this, I'd be devastated. The joy I get out of training is unlike anything I really experience doing anything else in the world. What the hell is wrong with me?
01:38:33
Speaker
through therapy and the right diagnosis, it all kind of makes sense to me. I accept that part of me now. That's what makes me want to be. I could not exist if it weren't for physical training and
01:38:49
Speaker
I make this joke all the time that I really do believe I was born in the wrong time period. My autism and ADHD would be great as a gladiator or back as a warrior in Sparta or something like that. I genuinely believe I'm not in the right time. That most likely is my issue.
01:39:10
Speaker
because I've just always had, you know, I've always had that. And I've always wanted to be a protector, you know, and to help people, which is why I'd like to hop on the podcast. Can I ask you a question now that I think I've been wanting a thing?
Mental Health and Executive Function
01:39:23
Speaker
What's uh, I guess just like for you, what's your biggest struggle with autism? Like what is like maybe the one symptom or like just the one area of life or the one part about yourself that like gives you the most, I wouldn't say disable disability, but just like the most like struggle day to day or like the biggest thing for you. Number one, I would say other people that's like,
01:39:53
Speaker
Like, if the people around me understand me and who I am and my needs, it's never an issue. It's kind of hard for me to separate out autism from mental health, because I think most of the issues that I have when my mental health is good, I don't have an issue. It's fine. I'm good. Like, I think for the longest time, it was alexithymia.
01:40:21
Speaker
just because it's difficult to understand yourself in life and process things when you don't know how you're feeling about things. But I'd say nowadays it's probably a lot to do with the executive function stuff.
01:40:37
Speaker
Sensory issues, I've had a lot of experience traveling, not having my headphones, a lot of experience at school, a lot of experience at Taekwondo competitions. It's not pleasant, but it doesn't cause me any, it doesn't disable me in a way that I would get so overloaded that I would have a meltdown. Sometimes does, but very, very rarely.
01:41:01
Speaker
So I'd probably say, you know, the executive function is a massive thing because it does, you know, even to a certain state, it does impacts like every area of my life, whether it's work, whether it's just general self-care, whether it's... What's an example?
01:41:20
Speaker
Uh, no, no. Is it okay that I'm asking you? No, no, I'm sure I'm on open box. So it's, it's good. Well, I didn't know how your brain works. Like if it was able to, like, if you were expecting me to ask you a question, you know, I was trying to be considerate of, you know, your autism and stuff.
01:41:36
Speaker
Oh, it's cool, man. I'm good with that. I think a brush my teeth. That's always been a hard thing. I'm grooming was a hard thing and hygiene. It's not so much anymore. I've kind of got into a routine of doing that. Although I don't tend to when I haven't been to the gym. What about it is hard.
01:41:55
Speaker
The sensory experience of brushing my teeth, the time commitment, the noise, you know, once I'm actually brushing my teeth, I brush it for so bloody long. Like I'll brush my teeth for like anywhere from three to five minutes because I'm just like, you know, I want to get everything clean and good and I can just finish this. If I'm in here, I might as well be.
01:42:20
Speaker
pretty much. I've kind of managed to get over that, but everything is tied to the gym. I get home from the gym, it's time to shower. That's an indication. I don't want to be sweating, but that's uncomfortable for me. So I do that, and I'm like, oh, I could just brush my teeth in the shower if I want to. I'll do that. That sounds good.
01:42:38
Speaker
Um, you know, I get, I get back out of the shower. I go to my room and I'm like, okay, I'm feeling quite clean. I'll just put my face creams on. Take my meds, you know, so everything's like kind of stacked for me. And if it's not stacked in that way, and it's already part of a set routine, it's so much more difficult. Um, it makes sense. It's interesting cause, um,
01:43:03
Speaker
Cooking is hard. Cooking is difficult for me. It's interesting because the hygiene part is really easy for me, not because I don't struggle with sensory problems, but because not being clean is so dis-regulating that I would rather deal with all of the problems with getting clean. So I shave every part of my body except for my beard, and that's number one because I
01:43:30
Speaker
The amount of executive functioning it takes to shave my face, it's a real big brain suck. I cut myself constantly. I shave my whole body, but I always cut myself because my executive functioning isn't the best.
01:43:49
Speaker
After I do something for a long enough period of time, my bandwidth for overstimulation gets met. And so I kind of short circuit and I get overwhelmed out of nowhere. So that's not really cool on your face to have cuts all over your face all the time.
01:44:08
Speaker
You know, and when I was a kid, this is a large reason why they thought I would self harm myself because, you know, I'd be shaving like my legs and my arms and I'd have all these like cuts on myself, not because I was self harming, but because I have sensory issues from all the hair on me and all that. And I'm cutting myself because of my disability is not because I want to be cutting myself. So.
01:44:29
Speaker
So that's a large reason why I have a beard. And honestly, the other reason too is like, I don't have to pretend to make facial expressions anymore. You know, the beard kind of covers up most of them, you know, so it gives me kind of like a, it's like my mask almost in a way, you know, where I don't have to like be forced to be looking a certain way anymore.
01:44:51
Speaker
yeah that's that's the benefit i think definitely like people just don't expect it to have as many facial expressions or when you do do them it's like just kind of masked a little bit so yeah i see that um
01:45:07
Speaker
I mean, I've had lots of issues with, like, I can't shave my body, I have to, like, trim my hairs. The only reason why I do it is just because, um, number one, it just helps with hygiene, if I, like, miss a shower. Number two, it, you know, if you're trying to do videos and take pictures of yourself to put on online, you wanna...
01:45:29
Speaker
make sure that, um, it's at a length that the muscles can show properly rather than just, yeah. Um, it is just, it's the executive function. It's the transitions. Um, it's all of that. And, um, but once I'm in the role with things and my mental health isn't holding me back, it tends to be a bit easier, but, um, you know, I didn't even know how bad my executive functioning was until this new medication. Yeah.
01:45:59
Speaker
like to be honest with you, because I was always in a state of constant panic, overwhelming, dysregulation that like,
01:46:07
Speaker
Part of why I would rush to get things done wasn't necessarily because I had ADHD, but it was because it was so dis-regulating and difficult for me to use my executive functioning to figure out how to open the box than it was to just rip the whole thing wide open as fast as it could. Now that my medication's working, I can actually look at a box and be like, I'm getting dis-regulated by looking at this box. Why am I getting dis-regulated?
01:46:37
Speaker
Oh, because I don't know how to open this thing. And it takes like, you know, a prayer from God for me to be able to figure out how to get this tape off without just literally going straight up commando and ripping the box.
01:46:50
Speaker
which is probably part of the reason why I weight train and I'm so strong is just so I can open things easier. So it's like now I'm learning that a lot of that rush to get things done and a lot of the mistakes I would make and the tripping and the cutting myself wasn't because I'm rushing and I'm not paying attention. It's because my executive functioning is so bad that
01:47:17
Speaker
like I'm having a panic attack while I'm doing things because of the executive functioning problems. Yeah, it's, it's interesting. I mean, when I'm kind of in a, like, it's, it's, I think it very much depends on my mental state. Like, I wouldn't say that at this point in my life,
01:47:40
Speaker
Like that I would consider myself disabled in any way, but things like cooking, that's just something that, you know, like, like you were saying about too much executive function. Like literally, like if I'm cooking, I have to prepare the day before, like mentally not do anything. And then on the day, it's just this, this event.
01:48:03
Speaker
just this whole thing and it's not even that much like it could be just using one pan but then oh I've got to wait for this and is this heated and does this look cooked is it I just check every single piece of chicken make sure that it's not like this if I'm giving it to somebody I have to do all of these things and they're like I watch other people do it and they're just like chucking things in they're just like eyeballing it and I'm just like I don't understand how you can do this about
01:48:31
Speaker
freaking out because you don't have complete control over. I totally understand what you're saying. Luckily, my wife helps cook things for me, but it's very hard for me and it's just regulating for me. But it's
01:48:52
Speaker
It's because the whole experience induces extreme anxiety because of the paying attention for so long and like looking at it itself, just looking at things to me causes me to get overwhelmed and to get anxious. That's another reason why I wear sunglasses is, you know, I do have extreme sensitivity to light, but also my brain
01:49:17
Speaker
gets very overwhelmed by visual stimuli very easily. So the longer I will give any one thing or the more of anything there is for me to see, the more overwhelmed I am. So sunglasses kind of help to damper that a little bit to where my brain can somewhat filter out a bunch of stimuli. But then when you transition to something like cooking,
01:49:42
Speaker
there's like 30 pieces of chicken on this thing. Just looking at that without even thinking about how to cook it is causing me to have melted right now. I know it's like that at all, but it makes, it makes a lot of sense. Um, yeah, definitely. Well, no, it's wild, wild rider in our heads, I guess.
01:50:05
Speaker
No, I appreciate that. I mean, it's a good way of thinking. I didn't think about the different visual stimulation of the cutting boards and all the knives and the cutlery everywhere and the food and the sauces. There's a lot of different aspects. I can't even remember where to go either. I'll be cooking, right? And then I'll be with the spatula. And now I'm done with the spatula. And it's like, oh, fuck.
01:50:33
Speaker
Where does the spatula go? And then I get overstimulated by trying to figure out where the spatula goes. So typically, I'll just throw it on the counter. And now there's a mess all over the counter. And that's how cooking gets done for me. It's just all over the place and where it should be. There's a disaster going on because I'm just trying not to burn the house down. But I can cook eggs. They're easy.
01:50:59
Speaker
Well, I'm aware that we've been talking for quite a while and I know we had some, some other questions, but I think we briefly touched on kind of the work experience. And I think, you know, obviously the gym was something that you talked about being really, really important and your sensory support. So I think like we've covered quite a lot and pretty much everything that, um, I think, you know, we wanted to cover. So, um, how do you feel about wrapping up about rap? Yeah, no.
01:51:28
Speaker
Yeah, I'm good, man. I hope I kept conversation well enough. You know, my brain just kind of goes the directions that it goes. And you're saying about, you know, worrying about the, well, not worrying, but like the, uh,
01:51:47
Speaker
not not being able to recall things. But you know, we've been talking for two hours about past things. You know, so I need props. And like the thing is, man, is like, I'll not remember this whole conversation, like I'll finish with this, I'll go sit with my wife now.
01:52:02
Speaker
I'm not going to remember anything that we just did until tomorrow. And then I'm going to replay this entire thing in my head like all day tomorrow. But I won't remember it once we're done. And I really just want to say, like, honestly, thank you for, you know, chatting with me, man. Like, it was great to hop on the podcast and, you know, hopefully help people. But selfishly, I just genuinely enjoy talking with you. And I hope, you know, we keep in touch and that, you know, we continue to talk whether or not we're on a podcast or not, because
01:52:32
Speaker
this was very beneficial for me just in general and you're pretty cool dude and I enjoyed getting to know you better. Thanks man likewise you're great to talk to and you've got a lot of good messages that I'm sure a lot of people will
01:52:49
Speaker
take a lot from and also also from from the experiences of kind of going through life not really knowing that you were autistic and different and some of like the different things that you've had to face it's very very inspiring and very
01:53:05
Speaker
very honored to have you on and we'll have to get you on at some point because I'm sure that this episode is going to be very popular. Yeah, I mean, feel free to ask questions, guys, anything that you want to know about me or anything you want me and Thomas to talk about because
01:53:22
Speaker
I feel as though we kind of have two really cool different perspectives. And that's part of why this conversation was so cool, because we're very similar, but very different at the same time.
Identity and Authenticity
01:53:33
Speaker
And I feel like that's part of what made this conversation happen well. And I'm an open book guys, like, you know, I was telling Thomas earlier, and I don't know if I've said this on the podcast yet, but Superman is a huge idol of mine. It's, he has been,
01:53:48
Speaker
from the time I was born. I never really had anyone to look up to. I didn't understand social rules. I have autism. But Superman's an alien on Earth, and he has sensory issues. He hears everything. His eyes hurt. He shoots out laser beams. He always has to watch the way that he's walking and breathing, because he might break the building with how strong he is. And so it's someone that I emulated. And all he ever wanted to do was to use his differences to give people hope.
01:54:18
Speaker
that's, you know, what I hope to do for everybody. So, you know, if anyone has questions for me or Thomas, like, let them roll, man. Indeed, indeed. And I suppose on that note, like, do you have anywhere that people would like, you'd like people to go to, if they want to ask you questions or any like links or anything that you'd like to share with us?
01:54:39
Speaker
Yeah. So, um, my Instagram is Autistically B, um, which is, uh, you know, kind of a play on words, which is why I did it. Cause, uh, in a way it's, um, unapologetically me and then authentically me kind of wrapped into one word and then tying in the autism.
01:55:00
Speaker
And the reason I wanted to have that handle is because I just want to encourage people to be themselves, you know, and I'm not afraid to put out there that I am the way that I am and that I have the struggles that I have and that I feel and think the way that I feel and think.
01:55:17
Speaker
So that's why my handle is that way and I would encourage people to kind of get behind the movement a little bit and just be yourself. Don't worry about what anyone says or thinks. Believe in yourself because that is the only reason that I'm here and coherent today is because
01:55:36
Speaker
from the day I was born until very recently, I knew that I was right and that there was something going on and that I was going to make it and I was going to figure it out. And the only way that you can have that happen is if you're true to yourself and you're just unapologetically or, you know, autistically be.
01:55:56
Speaker
Brilliant. Brilliant. And I will, uh, I will put that link to your profile down below. And if you are at all inspired by, uh, myself or Brandon, uh, about the gym stuff or fitness, I would love to see some more like autism related. I could do a fitness episode with you too. If you wanted like, uh, like an educational one, like.
01:56:17
Speaker
What are some easy things that people can do to start to get into the gym over time? Because that's what I do with my clients. I don't actually work with pro athletes. I don't like it. I like teaching people the little things and the habits in order to build themselves up. I would definitely be
01:56:38
Speaker
down for the nutrition aspect of things. I think that's the one thing that I don't do very well, actually. It's hard as hell for me, dude, because of the autism, but I figured out a kind of a system and I'd be very happy to share that with people.
01:56:54
Speaker
Awesome. Well, hold that for we will definitely get you to do another fitness podcast soon.
Music and Emotional Management
01:57:03
Speaker
And guys, if you have enjoyed this episode, make sure to give it a rate. And if you are on YouTube, hit a subscribe if you're on Spotify, give it a follow so that you get updates on when new episodes come out. If you want to check up on
01:57:17
Speaker
how I'm doing, what I'm doing with my day, about to check out some of my daily blogs that I do. Please head over to at thomasandleyuk on Instagram. I do do a lot of stuff over there. I do post some stuff on YouTube and I try to, but it's a little bit of a different platform. So if you want the full breakdowns and blogs that I do, Instagram is the place to go.
01:57:43
Speaker
If you are listening to this and you have an organization or a business and you want to have me in to do some training, do some speaking on certain things, maybe you're having an event and you need to speak up, you can always contact me through my email, hi, at thomasandley.co.uk.
01:58:00
Speaker
Well, that was very coherently said. Usually I have to do that a couple of takes. You're pretty tired. Last thing before we finish up, song of the day. You gave me a song of the day earlier, which was
01:58:19
Speaker
something? Drive. Yeah. So I mean, there's really, can I give you two songs? Go on. Go on. I can't pick. So I would say Drive by Incubus would be a good song for anyone with autism to listen to. So, you know, hopefully they take it and they, you know, drive themselves instead of letting anything else drive them. And then the Own It song by Adelitus Way is kind of like my personal anthem.
01:58:50
Speaker
I don't like this. Ah, there we go. There it is. It's your personal anthem. Is that kind of like- Yeah, I play that song every day in the gym.
01:59:01
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. I listen to it at least a lot during the day. It's the first song I put on in the gym because even though I love it, due to the autism and PDA, I keep going to the gym initially and I have to get through the first five to 10 minutes. Yes. The only way I can do that is by listening to this type of music that helps me to get into that space and that rhythm of where I want to be.
01:59:30
Speaker
I'm just having a little bit of listening. It sounds quite cool, mate. I hope you do. I love music, man. It's on my ears all day, 24-7. It's how I regulate. The words help me regulate. The sound helps me regulate. I have a song for every emotion. I have a meltdown song if you want me to share it with you. It's loud. Do you like loud music?
01:59:58
Speaker
I do like loud music. Is that like metal a little bit or no? Yeah, I love metal. Yeah, it's great. Okay, so look up Self Destruction by I Prevail. I know I Prevail. That is my, when I am hating everything and I want to implode, that is my brain and that's the song and I hope you like it and it helps you.
02:00:27
Speaker
I can say that I do have some very over stimulating songs. I've got like a playlist for different emotions that I'm in and I have like an anger playlist and some of the ones that I have on there, they're just like, they're a bit insane. I don't understand how I can listen to them.
02:00:45
Speaker
But I really, really enjoyed it. My wife gets that way too. She's like, how could you listen to this and you don't want to watch an Instagram video I sent you? Because I don't know what the Instagram video is going to sound like, but I know this song. Totally. But share songs with me. If you want to shoot me on IG, any music that you like to share, it's a large way how I'm able to communicate my thoughts and feelings and to let people I know I care about them.
02:01:14
Speaker
one of the ways that I do that as well. Yeah, we've got a lot of similarities.
02:01:22
Speaker
But I suppose without trying to trail on too much, let's try and going to try and wrap things up, I think. No, I know. I'm sorry. It's so good. I'll stop speaking. No, I'm having to stop myself as well because I'm in the zone in terms of speaking. No, I forgot. Yeah. I mean,
02:01:46
Speaker
My playlists are available, like, publicly, if anyone else is listening to my kind of music. It's not very tasteful for most people because it's dark trap music and very aggressive music, but I do have a lot of... I have a playlist which is a compilation of calming songs, but also the calming songs that don't have any unfavorable, like, sensory input.
02:02:15
Speaker
So it's called Autistic Chills that I have. I'll try and share that below, if I remember. But if not, go check out the 4D or D Song of the Day playlist to hear the new songs that I've added. Definitely go check that out. And it's also on my normal kind of personal profile, so you can check out my other playlists.
02:02:40
Speaker
Yeah. Anyway, um, being absolutely great to talk to you, Brandon, and it's been great to have you all, um, for this episode, if you managed to get through it and I will see you next week on another episode of the 40 or two podcast. See you guys.