Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
The Mental Health Crisis Of Autistic Men with Kieron Lee
354 Plays1 year ago
Why is there so much stigma for mental health in Autistic men? Is body dysmorphia an issue for men? What support can Autistic people get at University?
TW: Mental health, ED, SH, and light mentions of SUI
Kieron Lee (@mr.kieronlee) is an Autistic music artist, Autism advocate under Anna Kennedy OBE, JAAQ content creator, and collaborator with Born Anxious. His first single NYN, touched on his experiences of relationships as an Autistic man, and is hopeful for the success of his upcoming album ACRONYMS. Kieron has had a lot of experience with mental health as an Autistic man and seeks to share the more stigmatised sides of men's mental health on the podcast.
My Links - https://linktr.ee/thomashenleyUK // Kierons Website - https://www.mrkieronlee.org.uk/
Dbud Noise Cancelling Adjustable Ear Buds (20% Off with code: THOUGHTYAUTI) - https://dbud.io/thoughtyautipodcast
Priory Group did a recent study on mental health in men, which highlighted some concerning statistics:
40% of the polled men have never spoken with anyone about their mental health
40% of the polled men said it would take thoughts of SUI or SH to get them to seek support
With the diagnosis rate of mental health conditions being 19.5%, it could be thought that men are more resilient to mental illness, but with 75% of registered SUI's in the UK in 2020 being from men... we may need to make a greater effort to support men and destigmatise mental illness.
Thomas Henley kicks off the episode by talking to Kieron Lee about his lifelong affinity to music and all the complex elements of sound that bring him joy. Diagnosed at a VERY young age, Kieron talks about the autism stigma carried by the older generations and how his framing of Autism turned from negative to positive in his adult life.
You would think that Universities would be proactively supporting disabled and Autistic students in our modern day, but both Thomas' and Kieron's experiences seek to challenge this assumption. Accommodations are to be identified and fought for by Autistic students, and in Kieron's case getting said support, it's not always followed up on or enforced by the University staff.
Kieron Lee touches on his experiences as an empath and how Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria has impacted his pursuits in the workplace and in love. They speak on the differences in processing trauma as autistic people, and how this process can often be prolonged and intense for us. Addiction and SH played a large role in Kieron's way of coping with mental illness as a young adult but has since made strides in finding positive outlets in the form of creativity.
Opening up about ED, Thomas shares his experience with body dysmorphia and low self-esteem, and how he sought to offset his social difficulties with superficial improvements. Both agree on the heavy stigmatisation, lack of support, or campaigns around both ED and mental illness in men, with Kieron
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Autism and Mental Health
00:00:07
Speaker
good day and welcome back to the 40 or two podcast with your host mr thomas henley of course today we have another episode for you guys we're going to be talking about autism men and mental health
00:00:22
Speaker
And before I introduce my guest, I just want to give a little bit of a backstory.
Thomas's Advocacy and Role with Anna Kennedy
00:00:27
Speaker
I currently am an ambassador for a lady called Anna Kennedy. She's an OBE, and she does a lot of work. I think she was one of the first people to set up a special needs school in the UK. So very big advocate from the gates running. And we've been in contact. She's helped me link up with companies like Born Anxious to produce my t-shirt line.
00:00:52
Speaker
Really great lady who's doing some really active work within the mainstream media and within the community. She's also produced this really cool event called Autism's Got Talent, which is kind of like the autism version of Britain's Got Talent or America's Got Talent.
00:01:11
Speaker
And they have a lot of different music artists, performers, people who come to these events to share their stories, share their talents and be judged. I think it's very different to usual events where it's kind of a bit more of like a showcase rather than like a ranking thing where people move up and becomes a winner. But it's a really cool event that I'd recommend anyone check out if you're interested in her work.
00:01:38
Speaker
She's also got some books out and things like that. Very interesting lady, very great, very happy to work with
Meet Kieran Lee: Music and Autism
00:01:44
Speaker
her. But one of the aspects that's more akin to the topic of this podcast is she introduced me to this amazing music artist called Kieran Lee, who produces music. He's currently studying at university and
00:02:01
Speaker
I am just absolutely enthralled with the work that Kieran's done, the songs that have come out. He produced an album called Acronyms, and all of his songs are, you know, acronyms. I don't know how I would describe your voice. Versatile. Versatile. When the album completely drops.
00:02:27
Speaker
There's a lot of music on there that I think nobody would expect. Yeah. But it all really just tells that story start to finish. Well, let's introduce our guest. Kieran, how are you doing today? Today has been stressful, but I'm excited. I'm excited to be
00:02:49
Speaker
to be doing this and to have even had this opportunity. And when you approached me, I was really overwhelmed that you've got quite an already big following and you've really made a name for yourself and you... Before you even approached me, I was checking out your stuff and just some of the stuff you were talking about that
00:03:14
Speaker
really resonated to me on a level that I think so many people like me will understand. I mean, you touch on some topics that not a lot of people are touching on. So for you to even be like, I've checked out some of your work and I want you to come on my podcast. I was really overwhelmed. And then when we spoke, it was just kind of like,
00:03:40
Speaker
almost talking to somebody that was another version of me. Do you know what I mean? I think we have a lot of similarities. So yeah, but yeah, so I'm excited. I suppose like, you know, for the purposes of this podcast,
00:03:58
Speaker
You know, we're both autistic. We both still to this day struggle with mental health that life has given us. So it's, I think it's really good. It would be really good to talk to you about like,
00:04:14
Speaker
I guess mental health in general, but also about men as well, because I know that the like the suicide statistics for men are really bad. And there's there's a bit of a sort of there's a varied amount of different social stigmas that kind of apply to men about, you know, not sharing how you feel, having to appear strong and kind of, you know, on top of things.
Kieran's Journey with Sound and Autism Diagnosis
00:04:44
Speaker
and obviously as we get into the podcast we can kind of challenge some of those things but before we get into like talking about the main topic of the podcast like men and mental health and autism I just want to know like how did you get involved in sort of the music industry and how did you get involved with working with Anna and Born Anxious
00:05:09
Speaker
Yeah, so, you know, when I was younger, it's in the world completely different to, you know, my peers. Sound has always been something I've been obsessed with and the ways that we can manipulate sound. So from the get-go, I think music was just something that I just talked to in the most beautiful way. I've never taken to something like I have to music.
00:05:37
Speaker
It's something that's very complex, very broad and has so many other things attached to it that when you start to learn it, it just interests you and the knowledge behind it just amazes me. So I started college 2016, you know, leaving school was, that was hard, big, massive transition.
00:06:04
Speaker
But in Birmingham, we have the CAT team, which is there called Communication and Autism Team. And I've worked with them since I was, you know, very, very little. Like I'm talking just started school and wasn't very verbal, didn't take to people, didn't really show any, you know, care for a lot of things.
00:06:28
Speaker
just emotions and all of that. So were you diagnosed quite, quite young? Yeah, I was diagnosed at the age of three. Wow. Yeah. That's very, very early. Yeah, I say that I was diagnosed quite early, but I was like 10. No, my mum was really, I think a lot of people would be quite annoyed at this, but was really almost not against me having a diagnosis, but, you know, 1999.
00:06:58
Speaker
We didn't have the knowledge that we do now. I think the knowledge out there still now is not good enough, to be honest. Yeah. I mean, I'm still learning something new about myself every day. But yeah, I was diagnosed really young and my mum and the doctors, they had spoke about whatever they were speaking about. It was the things that I would do when I was younger.
00:07:28
Speaker
I mean, like the one time I cut off a cat's ear and I'm not a malicious or nasty person. I just have no street smarts. I mean, I can't even remember that. So for me to hear that from someone that really loves animals more than people really hurts my heart.
00:07:46
Speaker
And there was just other things that were alarming to mom, like not wanting to be touched, not wanting to be dressed and, you know, being really sensitive to things that are happening around me. And she got some advice and they really encouraged her to get get this, you know, addressed. And she did. And I'll rate her so much for that. I mean, when my mom had me, she was only 19.
00:08:15
Speaker
Wow. Yeah. So for her to take on a child when she's still practically a child herself, it's, you know, parenting don't come with a manual anyway. So what is it like parroting, you know, a child with? Yeah. It's just like, what, you know, how am I going to, how am I going to do this?
00:08:43
Speaker
Growing up, I really felt misunderstood by a lot of people, even my mum. But now I'm older, I've really
00:08:54
Speaker
gone through some traumatic stuff that's really just you know changed my whole outlook of everything. I mean I was talking to one of my friends yesterday he's going for a really really rough time now and I mean he last year he was packing his bags off and he went and moved somewhere new and he was starting something exciting for himself and
00:09:15
Speaker
He was talking yesterday, you know, he's back here right now. He needs his support unit. And it's those, those kinds of things, those traumatic events. I know that for him, he would have taken that a certain way, but for me, if that was me in that situation, I would have talked to that a lot worse than he did. And it's that that helps me get that, you know, kind of view and outlook on things. And yeah.
00:09:42
Speaker
But yeah, so we can put a lot of pressure on ourselves way too much. I think even even people like who don't have neurodiversities, you know, in modern day society, you know, we have the issues with like housing.
00:09:58
Speaker
Um, the cost of living crisis, you know, we've got lots of aspects that can make it really hard for young people to sort of move out, you know, sort of seek that independence. And especially when you're autistic, you, it's kind of like you have lots of other different things to think about and even go as far as mental health, you know, if you are
Collaborations and Music as Expression
00:10:23
Speaker
you know perhaps if you do perhaps go through like severe periods where you can't function as well as you you could usually do that can make it sort of a looming worry over any kind of event that you or change that you tried to make.
00:10:41
Speaker
I think for me, it's like every day is expect the unexpected because we're going to get, we're going to get something a little bit different every day. But that routine is still going to be there. Yeah. Yeah. On top of that, in answer to your question, I was approached by Aaron York. He's also an autistic producer, songwriter, and he worked with the communication and autism team.
00:11:06
Speaker
And they come out and they were recording like a series, done really well on YouTube actually. And I was a part of that. And we'd done, he filmed me singing and he said, he told me about Anna's work. And he just told me, you know, what Anna does basically. And to begin with, I was kind of like, this sounds cool.
00:11:36
Speaker
he approached me and says we're doing an album and I want to show Anna here and I have no doubt that she will want you to be on this album and it was it was building bridges and yeah from then just never looked back.
00:11:55
Speaker
I found it really interesting, the crossover between autism and music. I hear a lot from other people, strengths like pattern seeking, being really helping with creativity.
00:12:12
Speaker
specifically when you think of like beats and music and lyrics, you know, being able to kind of spot patterns and see where you can feed into them or like break them up for effect or even go so far as like pitch, like singing. I know that a lot of autistic people, their pitch tends to be like pretty on point. And even if it's not, they can tell like deviations.
00:12:40
Speaker
I'm very on it when I'm on stage and I'm performing. And if one of my musicians or one of my instrumentalists messes up, I'm noticing that I'm calling them out about that on stage. That's that whole business, you know, music. It gets embedded into your mind. And I think music just helps so many autistic people. For me, it's I don't think that, you know,
00:13:10
Speaker
without music, I would be able to express myself at all. It's literally autism that represents my music. Autism is my music. And that's everything behind it. The thinking process behind, you know, like naming songs. And even that pitch thing, I learned a really cool technique the other week about
00:13:36
Speaker
when we're doing, when we say we're programming a kick drum and we want to get, you know, a certain effect, we can just get a snare, pitch that down. And you wouldn't know that the pitches are different. It would just have that, that lovely element underneath. And it's them things that fascinate me. Sort of like the little details of, yeah, there's so many details.
00:14:04
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, there's so many. I mean, studying music, I didn't. Before this call, we were talking about, you know, before the start of the podcast, even we were talking about, you know.
00:14:19
Speaker
But we were talking about Thomas, we were talking about business, and we were talking about, you know, the aspects of music creation, just being it's not like you just show up and you sing and everything's like perfect, you've got to learn like the...
Challenges of University Support for Autism
00:14:34
Speaker
the editing, the promotion, the forms. The marketing, the absolute everything, the writing, the licensing, the making sure that, you know, your distribution, so it's, you know, making sure that if you're marking it to someone, you know where you're marking that to. You have to have a whole plan. Yeah. I mean, I've been sitting on top of this album now for almost a year and I'm just so desperate to release it. I'm just waiting. I know it's going to be
00:15:05
Speaker
in the next couple of months but I'm just waiting for that moment I think for me with music I think everything just has to not always sit right but flow you know everything in music is the flow, do you know what I mean? I think it's really interesting you talk about that because it's like I had a podcast with
00:15:31
Speaker
a xgb tech wonder athlete now sort of physio dude and we were talking about sort of
00:15:40
Speaker
Making it in the world is like being self-employed or in the workplace. There's loads of aspects where we have a lot of strengths. But there is always going to be some aspects that we find really hard and taxing. Oh, yeah. Once we have a weakness, I think we have to then go out with help for someone to assist, find that strategy of how we're even going to approach that.
00:16:10
Speaker
And I'm so glad you say stuff like that because I don't think that a lot of people understand that. I've been going for a big ordeal with university. And I'm actually, I'm situated at BCU, but the course itself is situated at my college. No, I've got
00:16:36
Speaker
You know, before you go to the union, I don't think a lot of autistic individuals that would even want to, you know, that.
00:16:42
Speaker
want to consider uni, don't actually know what benefits that they could get from going to university. And that really aggravates me. And it's not like set out in like a path that you can just go down. Yeah, nah. You've got to search out and ask people. At the start of the year, but just before I started uni, you get assessed, you know, for your needs. And I mean, the assessment was so hard for me.
00:17:12
Speaker
I can't do talking to people about, you know, I don't know how to explain it. I can't be speaking to people that I don't really know. Or, you know, when you know something's official, for me, when you know that that thing's really important, it puts the pressure on me even more and just makes the whole thing even more overwhelming. And I got assessed for my support and I got
00:17:42
Speaker
all of my support put in place. And then at the start of the year, we go to uni, it's strike. And as you can imagine, there's no delivery on lectures, it's then hard term comes up with until we've got an assignment.
00:17:58
Speaker
I didn't know I got stuff like automatic two week extensions, you know, because of my fluctuations, circumstances. College has been a real support unit for me at the same time. And I thought that going there as uni would benefit me because I really wanted to go away. I thought I need to find some sort of independence. But obviously, things don't always turn out how I expect. And I went for a massive deal in the summer and that just put on hold.
00:18:29
Speaker
Well, actually, it wasn't that. It just wasn't being in a good place, you know, and it not being right to go and take yourself away. You know, when you go through these episodes and then we get a little bit better and then we're advised, you know, we don't want to push you too far. We want you to still be good and for you to still be able to deliver basically.
00:18:52
Speaker
And so I was saying about these extensions, they were all in place and my tutors just didn't acknowledge the change in my behaviour.
00:19:06
Speaker
in terms of my physical appearance. They were aware just before breaking up that I was struggling massively with my mental health and I was absolutely assured that everything was just going to be okay and that the support was going to be there and in place.
00:19:24
Speaker
Yeah. And my tutors didn't even read any of these, you know, support statements. Didn't even tell me about my extensions. Didn't tell me that my handouts are meant to be given to me. So many different things. It got to a point where it became very confrontational. Yeah. And they're quite mean. And there's been times where, you know,
00:19:51
Speaker
I'm a very respectful person and I've known these tutors for eight years. I've been there a long time. I've studied a lot. I love studying and they know me. I see these people as family and for them to not
00:20:13
Speaker
you know, if I was, you know, teaching is something that I want to do. And I've done teaching programs and gone and taught music and done some workshops. And that was great. That's cool. And yeah, I really seen these people as a family. I still do. I still have a lot of respect for them. Just just heart because
00:20:34
Speaker
a lot of the stuff with uni has just really impacted on all of my, the business stuff, you know, it's prevented me from marketing, it's prevented me to, you know, be able to just dedicate the time that I know that my project is worth. But yeah, if I had a student, you know, that had additional needs, and I noticed a change in their behavior, especially if I knew them to begin with,
00:21:00
Speaker
My first thought would be I need to go and find this child support plan, this student support plan, because something's not right here. And we was talking earlier about, you know, relapsing and all of that. And that's just kind of where I'm at with everything right now. University can be really tough, like. Yeah, it really is. I had I had pretty much like
00:21:25
Speaker
at least two or three issues like forever yeah like we could talk about the specifics about like how they communicate during like exams and stuff being just completely like
00:21:40
Speaker
uncertain about what they want from me. I was really fortunate that I made a link with one of the student support offices when I was at uni and they were pretty much like the HR of the university.
00:21:58
Speaker
And they were so supportive. And anytime I had any issues, I could kind of go in and chat to this person. She was called Joanne. She sadly passed away just before I graduated, but she was
00:22:14
Speaker
very sort of integral to keeping me afloat during those times. And I think if I didn't have her, I don't think I would have been able to sort of cope with university. I really get that. I have those people around me, Lisa and Amanda, welfare and mental advisors. We have like a student services at the college.
00:22:40
Speaker
and they've known me since I was really, really young. I mean, I don't know. I did a talk with some SEND students last summer for those that were looking to join the college and they shown the video, you know, with the CAT TV where they teamed up with Aaron and Anna. And yeah, she saw that video and she's just without, you know, she cried at seeing this video. She's just like, wow,
00:23:10
Speaker
these come such a long way. And I know that none of that would have, it wouldn't have been possible without the support of any of them, you know. And I think that we need them kind of units. And if we don't have them units.
00:23:25
Speaker
things just aren't possible. It's interesting because it's like, you know, we obviously have such, you know, negative life experiences as autistic people just throughout life, whether it's like bullying or isolation or, you know, issues within the workplace, issues with kind of advocating for your needs.
Navigating Adult Life with Autism
00:23:50
Speaker
There's so many aspects to being autistic that can make it really hard, especially in the adult world.
00:23:55
Speaker
because there is no sort of solid like governmental support for autistic people post 18. Yeah. Other than perhaps workplace things. Do you know for me I just wake up now and I'm like I've spent my whole life trying to understand why it is I take to certain things or why is I react or respond to them sort of things that
00:24:20
Speaker
I'm just sick of my, you know, I'm not making excuses from myself. You know what I mean? Like, it is what it is. And that's it. And I should actually be proud of myself for even acknowledging that.
00:24:34
Speaker
You know, and I think there is an aspect of like, especially with, with life, you know, we have all these social norms that people trying to try to thrust upon us. But being autistic, we have, we have a spiky profile. We have things that we're really good at doing and we can do for ages and we can focus on all day to the point where we forget to eat and drink and, you know, pick up all the tiny details and, you know,
00:25:03
Speaker
recognize patterns and create things, but there's just such a... There's a part of life that we may fall down on, which, you know, for me, that could be things around, like, executive functioning, things like keeping on top of hygiene or cooking or cleaning or, you know, those things, as well as within the workplace, things around, like, organization and...
00:25:33
Speaker
communications, you know, there's lots of things that I'm great at that I can do, which, you know, it's, you know, if I would say it was like the product of what I would want to sell to people, you know, being like my podcast work and my blogs and stuff. But there's so many aspects to running that kind of thing that I'm not so great at.
00:25:56
Speaker
Yeah, I'm really happy because I am in a situation where I found someone who might be able to sort of support me in that side of things. But it's taken a while and it's not something that's like, yeah, readily pushed by and supported by, you know, like the systems that we have in place. Oh, yeah. One hundred percent. I don't think we've got to search out. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think any of the things that I'm doing would be possible without that support unit.
00:26:26
Speaker
you know, without people like Anna, without the help from Born Anxious and without them people that continue to inspire and motivate me. You know what I mean? It wouldn't be what we vision it to be. We really nurture these projects.
00:26:44
Speaker
And we have to try to nurture everything that is, is sat behind them. Them things that are new to us. And yeah, just be proud of that. And I feel like that's a proud thing. Yeah. It's, it's being, being able to say, Hey, look, you know, I'm amazing at this. Yeah. And it just, yeah. Yeah. And then all the stuff being like,
00:27:10
Speaker
I don't find that easy and I need support with that and that being okay as well. It's like understanding the two sides of it, you know, like we see a lot of stuff. We used to have a lot of stuff which is very negative about autism. Now we have sort of organizations, companies and people
00:27:30
Speaker
kind of, they kind of go the other way where they say that everything's great about autism. Whereas like the reality is, is that it's a mix of the two and it's, you know, it's, it's just being different and having different needs and having different strengths. Um, and being okay with that, I guess.
00:27:48
Speaker
I guess what I, you know, would really want to talk about is sort of like the mental health side of the things, side of things. Because I know the statistics, the podcast that I did beforehand was around like suicide, suicidality and autism, which was quite a heavy one. And we looked at some of like the really difficult statistics, even for young people and adults.
00:28:17
Speaker
So what I really want to know is, you know, what are your experiences with mental health and how do you think autism played into them? Honestly, I didn't have any, you know, autism on top of ADHD to me my whole life that that's felt like class. Honestly. Yeah. And
00:28:45
Speaker
Autism, you know, mental health, it's severely impacted just because of how we take to things. But, you know, having these gifts that I now see them as, you know, without autism and the other problems, then
00:29:10
Speaker
I wouldn't see the world the way that I did or do, sorry. So that means I wouldn't be able to make the stuff that I make. But yeah, man, it means... It's about that kind of mental health aspect of it, the notions that came from it. Yeah, it's... I mean, I'm like an empath, I see myself, you know. I mean, yesterday was quite a hard day for me. And I got through it up until the night and
00:29:36
Speaker
my friend was with me in the day and he'd, he'd, he's been really going through a tough ordeal. And I picked up off that emotion so much. And that later on, on the night when he'd left, I remembered my problem. And on top of his problem, and I just, I just couldn't stop crying. I had a huge mouth.
00:29:58
Speaker
Like I say, every day is different. I mean, we're still finding out things about ourselves. I learn something new, if not every day, every week. And I think, you know, it's like one of the reasons why I've done this today is because I'm
00:30:16
Speaker
really trying to build a platform for myself, but not just be somebody that wants to release music, somebody that wants to touch on things, touch on the important things. And mental health, it's like the hardest thing in it.
Addiction, Mental Health, and Coping with Trauma
00:30:37
Speaker
Last year in the summer, my best friend,
00:30:43
Speaker
Yeah, man. Took advantage of me and it really hit me up, man. And I know I've experienced so much in the past. I mean, we talk about suicide. I've been there and I've been influenced by drugs, by alcohol.
00:31:07
Speaker
by all of them things that, you know, people just deem normal today to the point where I don't drink anymore. I don't do them things because I know the impacts that it has. And autism and addiction is like a really big thing. So bad to the point where it's kind of like now that I'm really proud of myself that I don't need to have a drop of alcohol to
00:31:33
Speaker
you know, let off some steam. I don't need to do that. You know, I should just be able to do that without that stigma. You know, it's all right. It's okay to not be okay.
00:31:50
Speaker
So my sort of experiences with mental health, I mean, I touch on that a lot within the podcast, but it was very much created during my time during secondary school. So the experiences of bullying and isolation and harassment that I had during those times.
00:32:14
Speaker
I developed depression and anxiety, which are quite severe. I had like daily meltdowns and panic attacks for a long time. That's me every day. I'm exhausted. It was a really tough time. And I think, you know, going past
00:32:35
Speaker
sort of secondary school. I kind of carried that trauma, those experiences with me and I think just because of the exposure that I had to those negative experiences when I was younger, it kind of affected my brain. Oh yeah, and this is the process of things and how long it takes the process information and
00:33:04
Speaker
I still see my specialist every three, if not four weeks. And that support for me, you know, it helps me to still learn about myself and
00:33:18
Speaker
One of the things I found out was, you know, how long it actually takes for me to process a piece of information. That could be any time, you know, it could happen then and affect you still so many years later down the line because that trauma, that trauma doesn't go away.
00:33:37
Speaker
trauma, it gets embedded. And you develop all these defenses as well. Yeah. Yeah. To do I was talking to sort of a good friend about something similar, whether they experienced something really difficult when they were quite young in the teenage hood. And we were sort of chatting the other night about
00:34:04
Speaker
about that and how, you know, there's little things that you kind of just pass off as being like a normal part of you or your personality that, you know, really come from that experience of trauma, which, you know, I think especially like with interpersonal relationships, it can, it can make it really hard to trust people and to feel safe and have all these coping mechanisms to come about that.
00:34:32
Speaker
in the moment you find that partner and then it doesn't go the way it goes or you think you find that someone and take that trust and you trust them you know and you love them I think when your heart by that
00:34:49
Speaker
It's almost like the end of the world, you know? And you don't... I've been flawed for like years post breakup. Yeah, it's me right now and I wasn't even with the person. Yeah man, things really do affect people with autism just on a scale that is just unimaginable. It really is unimaginable and
00:35:19
Speaker
You know, I'm still really, you know, interestingly talking about like processing things because I don't think for a long time enough. I don't. And I'm sick of time.
00:35:32
Speaker
Yeah, I'll carry on. I was just going to say, I'm just sick and tired of people saying, you know, get over it. Or, you know, it's been a year or it's almost been a year or, you know, this happens. And no, because, you know, I've actually just, you know, I have to work for what works with me and the way that I'm feeling don't work. But I understand that I'm processing this completely different to other people.
00:35:57
Speaker
Why is that a bad thing? Why do I have to, you know, make that out to you, make that a statement and make that aware that the way I'm not making excuses for myself, we spend most of our lives, our whole lives, in fact, figuring out why it is we respond and act this way. And I'm just sick of people saying that, you know, you know, just it's that's life,
Redefining Masculinity and Embracing Neurodiversity
00:36:21
Speaker
mate.
00:36:21
Speaker
you know, because that's what brings back this stigma of, you know, men and their mental health and that it's not okay to be a man and not feel good, you know. Yeah, you know, like what the, like literally, man, and it's that sort of naive behavior. It is naive because these people that have that sort of outlook on the world just, they're just naive, they're not
00:36:45
Speaker
They're not open minded. They can't see things for what it actually is. You know, I think even as far as going into the mainstream media, like if we talk about even the people who are organisations who are advocating for mental health, it's always like, oh, yeah, there's always positive statements around your house and think positively and you know, like that's like that's always going to work.
00:37:14
Speaker
you know i don't i've been in my place i mean thomas i can't explain what my life is like every day at the moment i'm on the go 24 seven i don't know how to shut off i don't sleep i'm not eating really i'm going through so many different things but i'm
00:37:33
Speaker
I'm still holding the fact that I should be proud of the things that I've accomplished whilst going through this and ask somebody that is normal to come and just step their feet in my shoes if they can fit for one day because I've spent a lot of my life not feeling proud of accomplishments and not feeling proud of being able to do something
00:37:59
Speaker
You know, because people can do that. Just everyone can do that. And it really aggravates me. And this is why your podcast touches me so, so much.
00:38:11
Speaker
You're actually one of my inspirations, I can't lie. And this is what, yeah, seriously, no. And I genuinely mean that. And this is why I really wanted to be on the podcast because you're continuously highlighting things that are important. RSD, it's one RSD, you know, rejection sensitivity. Yeah, rejection sensitivity. Yeah. And I was like, why? What is this? You know,
00:38:38
Speaker
When I was younger, I used to come home and I'd research, why do I have like a stabbing pain in my heart? And it would just be like, you're dying, or something, you know, just, you know what Google's like. If you Google it, it's the end of the world, think the worst automatically. And my specialist actually said,
00:39:01
Speaker
do you know what RSD is? And then, you know, having ADHD as well, you know that that RSD is very common in individuals with ADHD. And I don't know how and to what extent you know about how medication works for RSD.
00:39:21
Speaker
but from what I researched, you can't be medicated for ADHD and RSD. I did some, yeah, I did some, I should have kept this for this particular thing right now because this is a conversation that I wanted to have with you and just, I think the point I'm trying to make is that when you spoke about that, that really connected to me and
00:39:49
Speaker
I don't think a lot of people are even aware of what RSD is or whether it is a thing, you know, and, you know, we talk about, you know, how how does, you know, autism affect us? Well, it affects multiple things because it's not just autism. It's an idea. And, you know, autism has its stems. ADHD has its stems. It has its stems. And it's it's one big massive tree that just doesn't stop growing.
00:40:19
Speaker
I feel really privileged to be able to do this today because I feel a lot of my stuff is not as vocal as it could be and I say that being a singer, I want to be somebody that can
00:40:42
Speaker
Going back to earlier, I said I was really sceptical about the whole autism and doing an album thing and being noticed from my singing just because I'm autistic. And then I thought we'd go through something and our outlook on that completely changes.
00:41:01
Speaker
it was that and it's that now and I want to be able to create music that touches on topics that, you know, mean something to people that tells a story. I want my platform to be that. I want people to know, you know, hop on my website and know that, you know, I'm, you know, I'm someone that has gone through this and
00:41:24
Speaker
If there's anything I can do at all to help anyone, that's something I would do, you know? And that's why you inspire me so much because there's just not enough talking about this. There's so much talking about all of the other stuff and just not enough of this.
00:41:44
Speaker
Ay up, just popping on to say thank you for listening to this podcast thus far. If you could do me a real solid, please make sure to rate the podcast if you're on a podcasting streaming service and do all that like, subscribe, comment stuff on YouTube. Damn, even send a heart in the comments if you don't feel like typing.
00:42:03
Speaker
Make sure to check out my link tree, which is always down below in the description or head over to my Instagram page at Thomas Henley UK for daily blogs, podcast updates and weekly lives. This podcast is sponsored by my favorite noise canceling noise reducing earbuds that you can adjust the volume on. Really, really great thing. They're called D buds and you can find the affiliate link down in the description of this podcast. Anyway, I hope you enjoy the rest of the podcast. That's all from me.
00:42:34
Speaker
to put in all the, all of the issues on the autistic label rather than the interaction between the autistic person and the society that's not built for us. Like, I, uh, I really feel what you said earlier about sort of growing up hating yourself and hating autism because that's not wanting to be, yeah.
00:43:00
Speaker
That's something that I experienced a lot when I was younger. I used to talk to my mom and I was like, why do I have to be autistic? Why do I struggle with these things? You know, I used to get really upset about it. And it was only until my early twenties when I really sort of branched out my understanding of autism through listening to other autistic people that I started to... That's the magic, yeah.
00:43:24
Speaker
Yeah, you know what there's actually some great things to this and You know, we're an asset to the world and 100% we offer something different. Yeah, I mean don't get me wrong. I mean When I'm having this huge ass meltdowns, I still I'm not why does my brain have to be like this? Why am I built like this and I really
00:43:53
Speaker
I'm at a kind of point in my life where it's like, if this is how things affect me now, then what am I going to be when that support unit's gone? You know, because coping, that would just be impossible, wouldn't it?
00:44:12
Speaker
yeah it's definitely it's definitely difficult i mean i know that you mentioned about sort of seeing like a specialist or like a council or something around mental health but
00:44:25
Speaker
In terms of the diagnosis and things that you experience, what are those mental health things? I imagine that it's around anxiety, depression, things like that. Yeah, of course. And the stuff that comes with that and how we manage that. I'm not afraid to admit that
00:44:50
Speaker
I have scars on every section of my body because self-harm is sometimes how I manage them feelings and you know it's overdosing and then you know it's drinking and I don't drink now I couldn't I don't I don't lead to because I'm too much of a mess
00:45:19
Speaker
I have to really prep for things. I have to really prep and just be able to take that time. So now I'm kind of at a point where I just, I feel like I don't want to live. I do. I feel like that. I feel like that every day. And that's just because of, you know, the recent hurt and all of that. But it's the other things that really keeps me going.
00:45:50
Speaker
It's the people like you and the people that are autistic and deal with mental health that are able to say, it's all right, it's okay not to be okay, you know? Look, it really, like, this is what I mean, I'm a really emotional person. But yeah, mental health has affected me in more ways than one. Earlier I mentioned that I was taking a tragic job, but I
00:46:17
Speaker
one of my friends. And they left, they left without my explanation. And, you know, I just had to be left and deal with that sort of thing. And, yeah, in the summer, I just became so shut off from everything.
00:46:37
Speaker
And there's a term for that. I think it's because it's so, it happens to, to, to a lot of people. There's this concept called mate crime, whereas where somebody deliberately prevents someone who's autistic or is disabled to take advantage of them.
00:46:57
Speaker
Oh yeah, when you're pretending to be friends, to, you know, getting to use them for money. Yeah, I think I don't think the friendship was fake. I just think there was an opportunity behind it. You know? That led on to other things. Most recently, I've been with any eating disorder, which I didn't ever, I never thought would ever be a problem in my life, to be honest.
00:47:27
Speaker
And I mean, days I wake up and I think, yo, you're so fat. And I know I'm not. Because, you know, in a year I've lost like four stone. It's like, these are how these things affect us, you know? But I still feel like they're self-image self-esteem. And this is what I thought, I'm going to give you everything today.
00:47:52
Speaker
And I thought that I'm really going to take this opportunity to, to touch, to talk, to, you know, be an advocate because if, if other people can do it. And I feel like I've been for a long time and I want to be able to shed light on people. I mean, that's what I live for, you know, I don't, I don't live for me. I live for people.
00:48:18
Speaker
And I think if I didn't have my mum, I mean, if I didn't have my mum, I don't think I'd be here for a stop, to be honest. But, you know, you know, Kelly, born anxious, her little one, Oscar, he's like the most adorable soul on this planet. And it's for kids like him that I live for. People that, you know, individuals that really struggle, but don't even
00:48:47
Speaker
aren't even aware of how great they are. It's that rad. It's those kind of things. But yeah, life has been the hardest it's ever been at the moment, on top of uni, on top of writing an album and trying to release it, and you know, everything else that comes attached with that. But I think for anyone that feels like me in this particular moment, needs to just be proud, you know,
00:49:19
Speaker
that they even done that to begin with, that they were even able to do that.
00:49:25
Speaker
because it's like any any achievement that you make any achievement that you do it's it's you know i think you could take a lot of pride in in doing that especially when you you know just by nature of your experiences in your brain it's so much harder for you that you know although it's not something that everybody will recognize it's something that i think everyone should recognize in themselves about
00:49:54
Speaker
because I don't think people realise how much it takes for us to recognise that, you know? And it's just like, yeah, this is why I love this podcast.
00:50:05
Speaker
Well, there is like an aspect of being open specifically about mental health or even autism for a fact around being a man. And I know that mental health isn't something that's, you know, I think more women on average experience mental health difficulties than men, but
00:50:29
Speaker
I think there's a lot of different aspects to it.
00:50:39
Speaker
that women you know deal with mental health more than men because there's not really a stigma behind you know women and mental health or at least not to my knowledge and they don't you know you know i'm not going to be stereotyping or anything but yeah no i just i don't i don't see how that could be the case
00:51:05
Speaker
because there are so many men that still want today that, you know, we talk about people being naive and just underreported. Yeah, it's 100% underreported and people aren't talking about it because their image is more important than what's going on inside. You know what I mean?
00:51:27
Speaker
And so yeah, I don't believe that for a minute. I don't think there should be any comparison to be honest, but I do think that people need to start being more alert and being more aware about the fact that, you know, at least we're in the 21st century, you know, why is there still a stigma between men and mental health? It's just it's just it doesn't.
00:51:56
Speaker
fit, you know. Why do you think that stigma is? Do you think it's? I think we are still, you know, this wall is evolving into things that nobody really thought, but them traditional, you know, some of them traditional opinions and then views are still around and
00:52:22
Speaker
I mean, I think it's, I don't want to be called to say it's a specific generation, but I do think that, I do think that that's, I think, I think, you know, people that, you know, have had more experience that think men should be men and, you know, I think there's just so much of that naivety around, you know,
00:52:52
Speaker
I think definitely there are a lot of core values that we talk about with men that I empathise with a lot and I think could be useful to a lot of men but I do think that there is a
00:53:09
Speaker
that i've you know for i've been kind of thinking about a lot recently and there's there's two sort of aspects to two sort of my experiences being being a man and having mental health one is you get these um
00:53:23
Speaker
overly extroverted, very insecure men who feel like any sign of weakness or any sign of emotion or anything like that, that kind of toxic masculinity kind of thing.
00:53:41
Speaker
some men can be like that and I have had a lot of people sort of throughout my life who have had that mentality and kind of made fun of me for you know having mental illness and not being able to get over it or taking antidepressants or you know perhaps not being as confident or strong in their eyes as they see it or even just making fun of me for for sharing things and being vulnerable
00:54:09
Speaker
There's another aspect of it as well, that people, and this goes for both men and women, people kind of assume that because of the way that you look, like, you know, I'm six three and, you know, I'm fairly big. And it's people kind of overlook it when I, when I tell them that I'm struggling because they see me in my physicality.
00:54:35
Speaker
It happens to everybody, not even men and women or anything between. I know that there are some other life experiences that I think a majority of men might experience that perhaps women might experience as much, which could be things like
00:54:58
Speaker
conflicts like, you know, you're more likely to be victim of a crime if you're a man. You're also more likely to go to war and experience like the front lines and, you know, come back with a lot of
00:55:16
Speaker
see that traditional like yeah this is what I mean about we talked earlier about you know traditional you know like it's I think some women you know women today would be annoyed if they didn't have the opportunity to fight for their country and then we come back to these you know traditional it's it's men on the front line you know like men should be big brave and no no just no because
00:55:46
Speaker
It's alright not to be alright and that is literally it, isn't it? I just, I don't think there's any other explanation. It's just okay not to be okay. It's alright to say I do struggle.
00:56:01
Speaker
You know, it's okay to say I need a bit of support. And I think, I mean, even for me, I mean, sometimes, I mean, I struggle to ask for help, not because I can't ask them, but because sometimes I always just don't want that help. I want to be able to manage it. I want to be able to cope, you know? I know how you feel. Yeah.
00:56:27
Speaker
I think there's another aspect of modern day living that I think is quite hard to overcome. It's kind of a bit of a stigma is that we very much place
00:56:42
Speaker
like this idea that, you know, men are not as emotional as women and that they don't feel... I can vouch and fully say that I guarantee I'm emotional more than any woman on this planet. And I think anybody that's listening that knows me will also agree. I mean, I can't already count how many times I've cried, suggested, you know, I'm an emotional person. I mean, what is it with saying
00:57:11
Speaker
you're not allowed to show emotion, you're a man. As far as I'm aware, a man means that you are born with these parts. I still have these parts, you know? I'm still a man. It's okay not to be okay. And yeah, man. Or identify. You know, yeah, literally that and it's like, I just think people really need to just
00:57:42
Speaker
I'm so positive. I try to be positive and I try to be hopeful for the future and for people that are a lot more vulnerable. You have to be. You have to be. You have to be positive. I'm always just like, at times I'm like, this is just impossible. This is not going to change.
00:58:12
Speaker
Is that where there needs to be more support available to people? I mean, waiting lists are so long. People are dying. It's not good. We have very high rates of mental health within the autistic community and we don't have a lot of support for it.
00:58:38
Speaker
Really, is it sad? Quite often, even if you do get support, it tends not to be very effective. No, not at all. And you tend to be in difficult situations with the mental health systems.
00:58:53
Speaker
I think that aspect of being emotional, it's absolutely ridiculous because being emotional isn't a masculine or feminine trait, it's a human trait. We wouldn't do it if we wasn't made to do them things. We wouldn't show these emotions.
00:59:18
Speaker
It's like, it's crazy thinking about men and their kids and like, do they not feel emotion towards their kids? And like, you know, love their partners. Yeah. So I've been around tutors that are males that I've broke down and cried in front of because I've been really upset by something that's said and they've just not
00:59:48
Speaker
gave a care in the world. And it's that they're just, to even think that we having this conversation annoys me, doesn't annoy me because it's a conversation that should be happening. It's just a, do you know, it shouldn't even be a topic. The reason for why we're having to talk about it. It shouldn't even be a topic. I mean, the world's evolving man. And there's just, yeah,
01:00:16
Speaker
It really annoys me because I say I need to recognise when I've made an achievement and be proud of that and to even be dealing with mental health.
01:00:32
Speaker
You know, that's an achievement. I should be, you know, mocked because I'm a male that is going for a hard time. You know, I just don't sit right. Don't sit right.
01:00:49
Speaker
I mean, you know, there are aspects to masculinity that I find, you know, applied to me and I think everyone has their own sort of definitions about what that means.
01:01:06
Speaker
I do think that for a lot of men we do give ourselves a hard time for having these emotions rather than accepting them and I don't think that ignoring them and knowing that they're there but ignoring them and pushing them to the side and
01:01:22
Speaker
developing mechanisms to get around it and not talking about it and not being open and communicating about it. I don't see that as like a sign of strength or a sign of masculinity because it's running away from something. If you're struggling with mental health, if you're struggling with depression, saying that you're depressed and that you have these experiences and have these faults and emotions, I think it takes much more courage to
01:01:52
Speaker
Worry my chorus. 100%. Pushing it to the side. There's not enough praise for being like, you know, I'm very, I'm such an open person. If I think something, I say it a lot of the time without thinking. But yeah, man, we really just need to. Yeah, that's the ADHD side of things mentally. It's just like,
01:02:19
Speaker
Yeah, literally what you said I couldn't say, I couldn't say better. It's just acknowledging that that took strength to say, acknowledging that that hurt to say, but then realising, you know, that it's, again, okay, just to not be alright.
Body Image and Self-Worth
01:02:39
Speaker
there is an aspect of mental health which i think is very very underrepresented which is things about your body image and self-esteem like we're living in a time where there's a lot of standards out there a lot of you know we talk a lot about how social media can really warp the perceptions of women but i think it's also for men as well
01:03:05
Speaker
I grew up hating my body. Instagram people out in the world taking steroids and saying that they can just achieve this through hard work and that you're weak and that you can't do all of this. And if you don't have a particular body type, then you're not a real man or you're not attractive. I think everyone experiences that body image issue these days.
01:03:33
Speaker
100% always growing up and I didn't feel like I found my style into a certain age and I'd see people that were wearing this particular thing and I'd be like I always had this vision of I want to be that person and now I just I don't want to be that person you know my outfits speak for themselves sort of things and it's them things that we learn you know that
01:04:00
Speaker
How do I reword that? You look at people and you want to emulate them. You want to get where they are. Yeah, but to the point where it's not like that anymore because the creative person inside me is like... I really don't know how to touch on that or how to even explain what it is I'm trying to say.
01:04:30
Speaker
So that's something around like individuality. Yeah. And self-expression, not feeling, you know, not feeling comfortable in, you know, your body image. I mean, like.
01:04:43
Speaker
you know I said I'm struggling a lot with eating and you know for me if I eat something I'm trying not to exercise straight away and stuff like that because you know that's the thingy of like if you do that you're gonna become this or you're gonna look a certain way and in terms of like appearance you see how it swaps you see how that when I was younger it used to be like
01:05:14
Speaker
I wish I was, you know, I wish I could express myself through my fashion this way, like that person is, where now it's like kind of just swapped and it's kind of like, you know, about what I just said in regards to the, I think it was, was it the eating?
01:05:33
Speaker
Yeah, I am. Throughout my life, I've always had issues with my own body image, self esteem. I used to try and the reason why I kind of was so adamant on getting a certain body type and getting like a level of leanness and dropping my weight down was because I really struggled with like,
01:05:57
Speaker
the fact that I wasn't very good at talking to girls and that I couldn't, you know, I really wanted a relationship and I was like, well, people don't find me attractive and that I am just so socially awkward and I can't speak to people. So what do I do? Well, you know, I try and fix external things. I try and, you know, I try and work on getting lean and getting strong and, you know,
01:06:24
Speaker
And I think that that for me was a big ignition for my own sort of eating disorder habits. It was also, I think it wasn't necessarily about my body image as well. It was more like, it was like another way of sort of harming myself. I was bulimic, so it was kind of, you know, there's that purging aspect to it, which is,
01:06:51
Speaker
it's it's somewhat dramatic just by its nature and i kind of felt like i deserved it at that time that i wasn't good as you know i didn't deserve to have that that meal or that food or that those sweets so i kind of punished myself yeah we do by not eating and yeah i don't think i've
01:07:20
Speaker
We're at completely two different, I feel like I've only just started to acknowledge that it's a problem and I think for anyone that struggles or has struggled with an eating disorder. I don't know how to say this. There's only so much we're ready to open up about.
01:07:41
Speaker
you know at a time and that's so it's kind of nice to hear your outlook and how it affected you because I'm not that I'm okay to say look I've got an issue with Ian but
01:08:01
Speaker
There's a lot more, you know? It comes with time, doesn't it? Yeah, it does. And I really love hearing you say this, but I like hearing you say this. I really like... I love talking about all these horrible things. I'm so glad that you've had... It's nice to, I think, for anyone that's, you know, struggle with eating and they hear about it from someone else. It's easiest to talk about.
01:08:29
Speaker
it's easier to be like, okay, there's a problem, but there's only so much I want to address. Like I'm not, I'm not ready to get help for my eating disorder and stuff. No, no, no, no pressure. You know, it's, it's, it's them sort of things. And so I really like hearing that you've
01:08:48
Speaker
It's inspiring man, it really is inspiring. I think as well we do have a tendency as men to glorify unhealthy states. Some of the top bodybuilding creators, they're like,
01:09:08
Speaker
You know, obviously great, great physique, lots of muscle, but, you know, they're chronically underweight. They're chronically like, and the reason why people go to follow them is because they are like that. We have aspect of big erects here and body dysmorphia kind of going around where men don't feel manly enough because they don't look as muscular as they want to. They look at themselves in the mirror and they're like, Oh, how tiny am I?
01:09:34
Speaker
And I think that's an other aspect then. I think a lot of men, you know, they feel a lot of, I guess, they feel weak from not looking a certain way. And we tend to glorify those people who use things like steroids and
01:09:57
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Cut the weight down. And so there's that aspect of things. It's just normalizing things that just shouldn't be normalized, man. And I think I just, I see it in so many areas and not just in this. I just hate that man. That things are often this way.
01:10:21
Speaker
because there's a lack of support in it and not enough people talking about the stuff that people should be talking about and highlighting. I think there is the big stigma around eating disorders and men just in general. Most of the representation is focused towards women.
01:10:43
Speaker
Not enough towards men, even even though, you know, it's it's clear that we do experience it. Yeah, exactly. And I'd probably even say that there's more stigma around that eating disorder sort of space than with mental health. Yeah, 100 percent. Yeah. Mm hmm. You know, a lot of the manly men online might go, oh, just bloody get some food in here and do all these stuff. Yeah. Stop eating loads of crap on the night.
01:11:14
Speaker
Do you know there is one guy that I like. Well that's easy for you to say because you don't have an eating disorder. There is one guy I like. He's a tit tucker. He's the Irish guy. And he doesn't care for his appearance. He doesn't whack off his top and go, yo, look at these abs. This guy's top on and he's not talking about, you know,
01:11:34
Speaker
all of the negatives and it's talking about, you know, you know, this is how much you actually need to eat if you want to gain even a pound of fat. You know, like don't be beating yourself up over and it's democratic people that I think we need more of.
01:11:49
Speaker
the people that aren't just, do you know what I mean? But I have since, I really wish I had the guy's name. What's the guy's name? I'll send him to you, but he's an Irish guy and he does like his workouts, but he doesn't record like all of that stuff. It's not just that stuff. But you see like there's so many people that are just normalizing that, yo, if you want to get this way, like we're training, you can't eat that. You can't drink that.
01:12:18
Speaker
You can't, you know, you have to get this much sleep. That really feeds into it as well. Yeah. Yeah. For an eating disorder. Like these are bad foods. Yeah. Yeah. These are bad foods. Eat these ones. I already know, like you're telling someone, like, I don't know the calories to like almost every single thing that I eat. Like, you know, and I think, yeah, I think that that unwise stuff just
01:12:45
Speaker
really doesn't help either. So it's nice that there are things like this, like podcasts like this online that are positive in making people aware. I think it's interesting because with any disorder, any
01:13:06
Speaker
condition, any neurodiversity, people already have kind of assumptions about what you'll be like and who you'll be.
Achievements Amid Personal Struggles
01:13:13
Speaker
And like, the thing is, is that I've gone through a lot of this stuff and I still struggle with a lot of things and I have my family supporting me with certain things. But at the same time, I am doing my podcast. I am doing my online stuff. I am making a business.
01:13:31
Speaker
I do go to the gym. I used to be a combat athlete. I used to fight people in a full contact sport. It's not. It's just because I'm open about how I am and what struggles that I've had. It doesn't automatically remove me from being able to be a strong person and a successful person. It's just that stuff and that stuff. It's not this categorization of who I am as a person.
01:14:00
Speaker
It's those experiences that enhance our ability and, you know, the ability to be more powerful. And I think, yeah, we just need to recognize this stuff more, way more than it is. And that's what I want my music to be about, you know, and I want what I do. I don't want my, you know, my image to be, I'm just
01:14:30
Speaker
You know, there's so many people that are using their platforms for just the wrong things. And it plays a part in how we're shaping the society we live in and the pressure and the strains that we're putting on everyone. Things are already negative enough, you know, but why do we have to make them even more negative?
01:14:59
Speaker
I'm saying this like I promise that I'm not going to like put songs on an album that are going to make you cry, but I mean it in a positive way, you know?
01:15:11
Speaker
No, it's communicating what words can't do, you know, singing and creating art. I think for me, you know, when you were talking earlier about sort of how music's been sort of a really big anchor for you, it's the same with me. It's like I always used to have my headphones on or my earbuds in listening to like metal or emo rap or
01:15:36
Speaker
Yeah at the moment like dark trap or like it's it's a way for me to kind of going to my own world and Escape. I guess it it helps when you don't feel like people understand you That you can kind of go to these places that express these emotions that you're feeling and I don't understand who you can empathize with Exactly. Look, I'll see it is I don't really understand me
01:16:04
Speaker
So how can I expect someone to understand me? But music really understands me. Music helps me to convey everything that I feel, everything that I've experienced. And yeah, it really just enhances the habitat power, just to want to keep doing it even though things are hard.
01:16:36
Speaker
I think that's a key point, isn't it? You can still do things and be a certain way, but also have things that are latched onto your life and things that are hard and it doesn't take away from any achievements that you make. In fact, it makes it probably a lot more inspiring.
01:17:00
Speaker
or you know it should be something that we look up to as you know this is this is great and you know you struggle with all this these mental issues you struggle with these other things in life but you're still going and you're still creating things and you're still you know on the track and i think one of the ways that a lot of people fall down nowadays is that
01:17:25
Speaker
We only see everybody on, like, on the podium. You only see only everybody in the highlights, the things that they've done. There's so many people in the world and you're filled with all of these amazing moments, experiences, achievements from every single different angle. And it can kind of feel very demoralizing.
01:17:48
Speaker
especially when you're not at that point and that you're still in the works. It's like I said, on my podcast with Nathan Hall, it's, you know, there's millions of of amazing people still in the works, still making their way up. And it's that every day, that every day sort of experience, I was going to say, every day, bro. Yeah, but every day. I could not have said what you just said.
01:18:14
Speaker
That's exactly how it is, you know. I say, you know, earlier I said to you I like to be a perfectionist but nothing's ever going to be perfect and every day I'm honing my craft and I'm developing my craft because that's what we're doing. Every day people are taken to things differently and we're experiencing different things and learning different things.
01:18:38
Speaker
I think, yeah. Life isn't a movie. Life isn't this, this string. It's not knowing that narrative that's short and conceivable in an hour and a half. It's life is realistic and not everything's wonderful or horrible moment. It's usually lots of different shades of blue and green and gray across the year. Yeah.
01:19:04
Speaker
Yeah, see, I'm gonna say it's really hard to hard to keep in mind, especially if you're not at a place that you want to be. Yeah, 100%. Well, I know we talked about a lot of different things. We have to know what we have. I do want to ask about
01:19:26
Speaker
sort of i do want to ask about barriers for autistic men seeking mental health support and this could be just for anyone in general like just one thing that i would pitch pitch in at the start would be things around uh relationships in terms of abuse i know that domestic abuse is very underreported from men's side of things it's something that i've experienced a lot i've been in some very
01:19:54
Speaker
tough situations with some very controlling manipulative people and a lot of the time when I when I tried to seek some support or seek some understanding from the people around me it wasn't something that was highlighted as an issue for me because of the way that I am
01:20:16
Speaker
I know it's been emotional and and it's also been physical at times in certain relationships and I've always you know whenever I've expressed you know the concerns about this to people around me not everybody but a lot of people they're very much under play just how much that can impact you as a person when you experience those things
01:20:42
Speaker
And so accessing domestic abuse support and things like that, I think is a really big issue for a lot of autistic men. I think it's just really... It is. It is.
01:21:05
Speaker
this. You don't see it in the media. You don't see it doctors when you see brochures about, you know, domestic, you know, with women and holding their phones. Are you going through some, are you going through domestic violence? There's no, well, there's just, there are so many barriers. There ain't enough of that. There ain't, we ain't seen it. So,
01:21:36
Speaker
It's, you know, for some time, it's okay to talk and say things, but I think that we're just really at a time in life right now where the most important thing we should be doing is acting on these things and... Yeah, making changes. Making changes, yeah, and taking these things to people where, like,
01:22:00
Speaker
I don't know how I could, you know, I don't know how to put this. There are just a lot of barriers to men's mental health. You don't see, like I said, on posters, on flyers and doctors or on TV ads or on both sides, you don't see it. It's not normalized, you know?
01:22:28
Speaker
And I don't want to put that word on it, because of how many times we've used that word in context throughout this podcast, but that should be normalised, you know, like it happens, men do go through mental health, like why can't help be as accessible?
01:22:51
Speaker
as it can for others, and I don't want to do this, why does, I don't want to be stereotypical and be like, you know, or stereotype even a bit like, oh, we should have this support or we should have this support, but why shouldn't we all be getting the same support, the same, you know, the same help? Yeah, the same awareness work. Like, I really just hate that there has to be these sorts of conversations in life at all about
01:23:21
Speaker
there not being enough support accessible to the men and their mental health. I've worked with the crisis team after trying to overdose and commit suicide and they've stayed with you for what a certain amount of time but then
01:23:42
Speaker
I really do think there's a lot of people that are doing their jobs that don't care for their jobs, if that makes sense, you know, a lot of professionals and people that that could be making this change. Or, you know, a lot more than say, you know, non-medical professionals, they have that, you know, that knowledge to say, look, this is where we need to be.
01:24:08
Speaker
making change and there isn't because I think everybody's just at a time in their life now where it's just like, I'm just trying to keep my job and get money, get a stable income. And I honestly don't think until- I think there's a lack of accountability as well. Yeah. Like who makes these, who's responsible for making these changes? Who's responsible for making these stupid decisions? Yeah. I shouldn't need to like have to
01:24:36
Speaker
like try and stick out of a crowd just to try and get some help. Do you know what I mean? Or I shouldn't have to put myself on the line just because I'm a male who's in need of help or who's in need of support because I don't care if what you are, I just acknowledge that things aren't good right now and that this person needs some support and it should just be as simple as that. I shouldn't, you know, hear
01:25:06
Speaker
It's really just how I feel about it, honestly. I don't know how else I could express it. It just peeves me off. I've tried so hard not to swear for you throughout this whole podcast, by the way. I really have. So hard. Sorry, man. I think, you know, just in general, support for autistic people needs to be improved in terms of
01:25:31
Speaker
You know, why don't we have any autism mental health specialists? It's something that we had before. Why has that been cut? When there is a... It's probably all boils down to is money. And that pays me off too, because there's so much money just going about the place that are being put into things that we probably aren't even aware of. And
01:25:55
Speaker
Sadly, we live in a country where the support unit is crap. There's not a good support unit for the most people, let alone those that suffer from mental health and have a diagnosis of some form which prevents or makes things that harder for them.
01:26:16
Speaker
It's just, it's shameful, you know, it's really shameful that we are living still in a world where we have to try and make some, like try and validate ourselves or our opinion and our outlook on things. I don't do that. This is why now I'm like very, if I've got something to say, I'll say it. And if something affects me, then I need to not be annoyed at myself because it's affected me, but be like, you know,
01:26:46
Speaker
it's not my fault that this is what it gets to me. I'm just, that's how I'm wired up sort of thing. Like, and there shouldn't be no shame in that. And that goes to men and the mental health. And I think I just think people need to just start talking more and it's exactly why I've done this today. I appreciate.
01:27:09
Speaker
No, I appreciate you even having me on here, you know, like I don't want my music to just be or have these opportunities just because I'm a musician that's autistic and likes to sing. I want to be able to be like, I really am just genuinely, yeah, yeah, I'm really just genuinely inspired by stories like yours and stories like Kelly's Sonaska, like I'm inspired by them stories and the
01:27:37
Speaker
just the love formula and the beautifulness in that stuff and how that can
01:27:45
Speaker
I mean, for the first time when I seen you post about Irish day, I'm like, yo, I'm so glad that I'm not the only one that thinks this isn't like spoken about enough.
Rejection Sensitivity and Musical Inspiration
01:27:56
Speaker
And yeah, I think we've experienced so much rejection in life. And you would think from all sides, I didn't know that that was common in ADHD. I didn't know that that existed. And
01:28:11
Speaker
Now I do, bear in mind, it's not something I've just been dealing with now. I've been dealing with it my whole life. It's just that now I've been made aware where really I should have known about that a lot earlier than I did. But that's because people aren't touching on the topics that do have positive impacts and affect people in different ways.
01:28:39
Speaker
You know, we take the positives from the negatives and sometimes that's just really hard to do. It's just really hard to do. But we try. Well, I know we've talked about a lot of different things and, you know,
01:28:59
Speaker
I would really like to take this opportunity for you to share some of your work, share some of your music, because for me
01:29:11
Speaker
there was a particular song, which, you know, sort of, it was then why it was touched, touched me very, very deeply. And I think I, I was like, you know, I was talking to my family and I was like, Oh my God, this, this, have you heard this guy? And I was like, I played the song and they're like, Oh, they're really, they're really good. Like, Oh, very, like so much emotion and like individuality in their voice. And I was like,
01:29:41
Speaker
Guess what? I'm gonna have them on the podcast at some point. Oh my god. They're autistic. They're doing all this stuff. And it did it. Like I played it. You know, I have it a part of my playlists and I listened to it very much. It touches me deeply. And, you know, I would really like to if
01:30:03
Speaker
I do a bit to add that to the Song of the Day playlist that I have. 100%. It's on Spotify as well, so it's just new. Why not? So add that to the playlist, which is always down in the description if you want to find it. You might have to scroll right down to the bottom, but you'd be able to find that playlist if you want to check it out.
01:30:25
Speaker
Karen, I'm just wondering, like, what was the, I don't know if you want to speak on it, but what was kind of like the ignition or the meaning behind the NYN song? If you're happy with talking about it. Yeah, of course. It is actually about being autistic, funnily enough, and relationships and, you know, taken to things in a way that
01:30:54
Speaker
people around me don't and specifically like I won't put specifics on it but you know like for any autistic individual that's even you know had the success of a relationship and I don't know what it's hard for for the person with or without autism and it was kind of like me trying to make an excuse like so
01:31:24
Speaker
one of the lyrics are, now I know you mean how it seems to me. Or now I know you mean how it seemed to me. And that was me saying like, what am I forgetting my lyrics? So it goes, you probably didn't, you probably didn't mean how it seemed to me.
01:31:47
Speaker
And then further on it goes, now I know you, you know, it meant what it seemed to me. And it's just, it's just, you know, and what it is about, you know, being autistic and struggling with relationships and, you know, knowing that certain words are only said out of anger and not because of the men and then
01:32:08
Speaker
You know, just the way we interpret information and relationships and then, you know, it being actually maybe is what I meant, but you're my support unit and I need you now. That's what it's about. And all of the... I definitely felt that from listening. Yeah, that was the really one of... I say all of them are really... A lot of them were hard to record just because of the...
01:32:39
Speaker
the emotions. I mean, I say I'm shaking at the end of my mind. And it was because it was a, it was almost a one tape recording. And I'm, I'm like, yo, if I'm in the studio, I don't want to do things just one take. But you know, when yeah, artistically, when you're in the studio, and it's like,
01:32:59
Speaker
okay, I didn't actually mean for it to tie along like that, but it just, yeah, yeah, it really just, it just, it just fit in with what I was doing.
01:33:11
Speaker
Yeah, it's a special song to me. It was my first single. I can't say I like it as much now. Definitely a brilliant place to start off, I'd say. It's pretty up there in terms of quality. I think it's amazing. Thank you. I just really can't wait to
01:33:37
Speaker
start being more active in you know doing things like this and being a bit more of a voice and you know doing more music and my album is coming this year without a doubt and I can't wait for the people that I hope it helps. I mean just to even know that NYN somehow you know reached out to you means for me that okay then
01:34:02
Speaker
I got what I wanted, I accomplished that from my end, I was able to help just... No, you definitely have the talent, you have everything that I would say that would make you a great music artist. Thank you, I appreciate it. You've got the individual voice, you've got great pitch and emotion in your words and with the lyrics and
01:34:29
Speaker
I don't understand why you haven't got into modelling yet because you definitely have the aesthetic to get into those kind of spaces. Thank you man. You should think about doing that. I was actually thinking my room is really quite small. I want to build a studio out the back because
01:34:52
Speaker
really want to do for my album I don't just want to do you know a digital release I want to do a physical release too so there's a lot of like art that I want in there and that you know back at that I didn't you know I didn't used to feel comfortable in my image or how I looked or you know I used to think yo I'm not a pretty looking chap at all and we get comfortable and then we really start to
01:35:19
Speaker
how to explain it, you know, fashion to me, like, I love my clothes. I love my clothes. And that was because it's almost like something I'm fixated on. I just love tonight. And when I do that, I always link it to like, say, my music and
01:35:38
Speaker
I'm happy for like to get into like a room with photographers, even though that have you, it's overwhelming. Did you know that there's a video out to NYN and when that was, it's on the Jack mental health platform, but it's not on YouTube yet, so it's only accessible there. But when I'd done that, you know, cameras, it was so close to me and it was scary, but
01:36:06
Speaker
think you know you're saying that because I'm going off topic just ever so slightly is that we hone our craft and our art and our music together and that helps to really you know like express a story you know and I want to be able to do that in a fit in a physical copy so I have got some like some photos and I think even you know going probably a bit further than that I think you could probably
01:36:32
Speaker
Get a lot of PR and sort of advocacy work out there from from doing you know trying to link up with some Modeling agencies because I think you could you could really do well that kind of stuff. See How great is this guy? How great is this guy? Great. Just being honest like I don't I don't do people's owns for that reason But yeah, I think you could you could definitely do that kind of thing. Thanks, man considering, you know, I
01:37:01
Speaker
that was you it's it's when you know growing up and we've spoke earlier about you know not feeling comfortable in body imaging when you get to a point in your life where you're like you know okay there are still some really issues like you know earlier I said some days I wake up and I feel fat
01:37:19
Speaker
Like, and I'm beating myself up in my head and I'm like, but I'm not fat. I don't have that. It's horrible when you feel like that, innit? It's the worst thing when you feel like that. And it's not true. And I don't have that with my clothes.
01:37:39
Speaker
You know, I don't have that, that, that, that for when I'm, you know, it's when I can see that it's like, you know, so Plowman's become like a bit of a powerful, powerful thing for me, because that helps me to express myself too, just like me, it does like, yeah, man.
01:38:04
Speaker
Yeah, that's how I feel about it. Just on a personal question, like I know that a lot of autistic people we can tend to struggle with like sharp pain. I'm just, because I'm thinking of getting like another piercing at some point. How much did the nose piercings hurt? Which one? One, two, or three? Oh, any of them just like me there.
01:38:31
Speaker
The side didn't hurt, I can't lie, the septum really hurt. But that's because where they pierced that bit more is just quite small. So that's why that hurt. But I've had a total of about 10 piercings. I've got my trigger. I've already got one in my lobe and that was like, that was just an absolute shock. Everyone was telling me it wasn't going to hurt. This is going to be too bad.
01:38:57
Speaker
Yeah, when I was younger, I didn't want tattoos. I didn't want, I didn't want piercings over them all on here. Me too. And now it's like, I have tattoos and I have piercings. And for me, it's like, you know, if I go through a traumatic experience, I get them in my trophies.
01:39:12
Speaker
And it doesn't hurt. I feel like it's it's a trophy to me. And I know that's a little bit weird. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So if I'm I mean, I'm overdue with how desperately I've been waiting for my tattoo. I'm going to get some some like black demon wings across my back. Yeah. So I got I've only got one tattoo and I had it done in Thailand by a monk. It's like imbued with some kind of spiritual energy or something like a ceremony.
01:39:42
Speaker
that's wicked i got it i actually got it i got it um after because i was in thailand and my my granddad passed away when i was away and i didn't sort of manage to he was diagnosed with lung cancer and i didn't manage to get back to him back to home for when he passed away
01:40:03
Speaker
which was hard for me. So the way that I sort of dealt with that experience and sort of commemorated him was by getting this tattoo because it was kind of something that I was really scared about and it hurt. Oh my God. It hurts so much with this steel needle and the hammer that we use. Oh my God. A steel hammer and needle. Yeah. It was over my spine as well. So it was like in the middle of my back.
01:40:29
Speaker
All right, well, I promise you now, you won't be getting that at any tattoo shop. I'll be getting that at any tattoo shop. Some heart more than others. Some heart more than others. The ear, like the lobes, they don't hurt. Where your tragus and your helix, that hurts. But it's pain that lasts for seconds. And if you like a piercing once you've had it, then, you know,
01:40:59
Speaker
then yeah, that's, that's it. You kind of like almost get addicted. Like I'm done for the piercings now. For now. For now.
Personal Expressions and Future Plans
01:41:12
Speaker
I don't know what else I could really get pierced that isn't, you know, I don't, I think there's, there's getting pierced and then there's getting pierced. You know, and people take, protect it to the extreme at times. And
01:41:28
Speaker
Yeah, man, I have to deserve like, you know, it's a reward if we're going to get a tie. They're paying trophies. And I've just looked at them ever since like that and makes me feel good. Makes me feel good, man. Yeah. If I don't have, if I have a day where there's no piercings in it, it doesn't feel right. It feels horrible. What are you going to get in like a nose ring, like on the side, like you have, I think,
01:41:55
Speaker
Do it. If it's what you want, do it. I don't know. I don't know. Maybe. It don't hurt. I'll think about it. If they do it with a gun, it's not good, but if they do it with a needle, it's good. We'll see. I'll think about it a bit more and I still need to get these wings, which I'm really excited about because I've got some really bad shoulder acne scars from when I was younger. I used to have really bad acne and I still do to a certain extent, but
01:42:23
Speaker
Exactly, Skyler's a real big light insecurity of mine, so I really want to get them lasered off or get a tattoo, and I think I want a tattoo anyway, so it might be a good way for me to go. But yeah, just for our listeners, I guess, where can people
Closing and Where to Find More Content
01:42:43
Speaker
find you? Where would be the place that you'd want people to go to? If people have even
01:42:50
Speaker
remotely large the sound of my voice throughout this this podcast or have even
01:42:55
Speaker
you know, talk to anything that I've said that they can find me at mrkirany.org.uk or mr.kirany is all of my social handles. Same for Spotify. It's killing me. Yeah, I definitely get you check out the website. It looks amazing. And also they're definitely the music. You need to listen to Karen's music. And as I said, it will be down in the description in the song of the day. If you want to go check that out.
01:43:25
Speaker
And if you have enjoyed this episode of the 40 orty podcast, make sure to give it a like, comment down below something, it could be anything, give an emoji a blue heart, something like that, it really helps move the algorithm.
01:43:41
Speaker
If you've liked this and you're listening on a podcasting streaming service like Spotify, give it a like. That really helps me get pushed up the algorithm and gets these types of messages, this type of content out to more people who might really need it.
01:43:57
Speaker
I'll also link this on my website as well. So get me the URLs and I'll make sure that it goes on my website and my platforms. Thank you, man. I'll get you like the embed link course on it. Yeah, that'd be great, man. Great. And if you want to check out my own, my work, my daily blogs, um, you can find those over on my Instagram account at Thomas Henley UK. I am on other social media platforms, but Instagram usually is the place to go.
01:44:25
Speaker
TikTok, YouTube Shorts. If you want to check out the shorter sort of clips that I have from different podcasting episodes, those are over on my YouTube channel as well. If you're feeling like you really want to get the messages out of the podcast and you don't have time to listen to the entire thing, that would be the place to go.
01:44:46
Speaker
Yeah, I really hope you have enjoyed this episode. And Kiran, have you enjoyed your 40 or 30 experience? Yeah, you know, this has been something that I've been really nervous, but really excited to do. It's been challenging. It's been emotional. But it's been it's been something that I remember for the rest of my life, because, you know, like early, we always start somewhere and I'm glad that
01:45:16
Speaker
whilst I'm starting my thing that I was able to do and be a part of something like this that, you know, can and I know will help so many. So, yeah, it's powerful. So thanks for having me, man. Thanks for having me. Thank you, Kieran. Anyway, I hope you have enjoyed this episode and I will see you next week for another episode of The 40 Autie Podcast. See you later, guys. See you.