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Martial Arts For Autism | Challenges and Benefits
1.8k Plays1 year ago
What are the benefits of martial arts for autistic people? How far should we push autistic people out of their comfort zone? How can YOU start martial arts training?
In this podcast, Thomas Henley talks to Sensei Al Loren about his experience in martial arts and his unique approach to coaching autistic children and adults.
Thomas’s Links: https://linktr.ee/thomashenleyUK Al Lorens Book: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Martial-Arts-Autism-Spectrum-Practical/dp/B0BZ6KG43P
Starting off with Al’s history of fighting, the two share fond memories of their respective fighting careers and connect on their love for the original Karate Kid movie series. Al Loren shares his challenges and success with teaching autistic individuals, highlighting the important mindset to have when coaching children and adults on the spectrum. They wrap up debating the balance between challenging autistic people and being compassionate towards their difficulties.
Song Of The Day (Listen Here) - https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5UDIyN5TSYN4zMcRoQPrG8?si=9255ed3480d840b5
Interview me, 1:1 Talk With Thomas, public speaking for events & workplace training - https://linktr.ee/thomashenleyUK
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Background
00:00:07
Speaker
good day and welcome back to the 4080 podcast with your host mr thomas henley of course today we are covering a very very interesting episode for our second episode is season three we're going to be talking about martial arts we're going to be talking particularly about al loren's experiences with martial arts how he came to teach
00:00:33
Speaker
autistic and disabled individuals, how martial arts can benefit disabled and autistic individuals, as well as the importance of finding a balance between challenging ourselves or challenging other people, but also taking into account people's needs and individual adjustments.
00:00:54
Speaker
So I think it's going to be a really good podcast. If you have been a part of the channel for a while, you'll know that I'm very into the martial arts world. And I'm very honored to be joined by my guest today, Al Loren.
California's Influence and Al's Martial Arts Journey
00:01:06
Speaker
How are you doing? I'm doing great, Thomas. It's wonderful to be here. And where are you tuning in from? I am tuning in from Marin County, California, which is the first county north of San Francisco right over the Golden Gate Bridge.
00:01:25
Speaker
whereabouts in the US, is that like if looking at like the map, is it like the top or the middle or like? So it's hard for me to know because okay, so small. It's the west coast of the of the United States, California, and it's northern California. So Los Angeles is about oh, three to 400 miles south of San Francisco and
00:01:54
Speaker
I'm in the northern area of a big state, California, which is bigger than most countries in the world. Wow. Yeah. Probably a lot bigger than the UK, that's for sure. Oh, it is. California has one of the top 10 largest economies, even though it's a state within the United States in the world. Really? So it's got a huge economy, large population, yeah.
00:02:21
Speaker
is it quite is it quite temperate out there like warm because in the uk at the moment it is i mean it's a bit weird it's kind of bone chilling most days but like now in a game we'll have kind of a mildly temperate day but nothing compared to like other places in the world where it's like sunny and warm like when i used to live in thailand it was i think the lowest that it got was about 14 degrees celsius which is
00:02:47
Speaker
You know Pretty pretty like it's like it's good weather in the UK that you know, well, um, we're here today to talk about martial arts and as I mentioned earlier, like I've I've had my own sort of history Within the martial arts world. I used to compete for Great Britain a couple of times in the sport of Taekwondo WTF Taekwondo, I think it's WF now they've kind of changed it or WT
00:03:16
Speaker
which is basically like boxing, and we wear all sorts of different pieces of equipment and stuff, and it's very much like a point-scoring game. It's full-contact, but I was a part of that world for a long time, since about the age of 14, up until 19, my university days.
00:03:37
Speaker
I've had a lot of experiences both like traveling abroad you know competing and such and it would be really I suppose good for me to to hear about your experiences because I know that you've been sort of in the world of martial arts for over 30 years
00:03:55
Speaker
I'd like to perhaps start with your own experience. When did you start and what kind of journey did you go on getting to the point where you started coaching?
00:04:08
Speaker
When I was growing up, and I'm quite a bit older than you, martial arts was not the household word. It was mostly organized sports, and it wasn't really as nearly as readily available as it is today, or it has been in the past 20 to 25 years, because I grew up in the 60s and 70s.
00:04:35
Speaker
So I was in college in my university, which is American University, which is in Washington, DC, where I got my degree and attended for four years. And my senior year at American University, my final semester, I needed an extra, I would say credit or something because I'd completed all my credits for my major and I had to take another credit to graduate.
00:05:04
Speaker
And I saw that they were offering, as you said, Taekwondo. And I'd always, you know, had watched a lot of martial arts movies.
00:05:14
Speaker
Chinese movies that were dubbed back in the 60s and kind of triggered my interests. I've always been involved in organized sports. I played sports since day one out of the womb, pretty much American sports. I played football. I played organized basketball. I played baseball, of course, and then I got heavily into the sport of lacrosse.
00:05:42
Speaker
which I played in college. And so I'd already been interested in discipline and movement and just learning how to move my body in different ways. And so when I saw that they had martial arts, they were offering a Taekwondo course. I said, I'll sign up for that. I need the credit anyway to graduate. And that was my first exposure. So I was probably, you know,
00:06:06
Speaker
20 years old, 21 years old when I first got involved in it. Like I said, it wasn't really available like it is now as a child, as a kid. And so I really enjoyed it. I graduated. I moved from Washington, DC, where the American University was, to Florida. A couple months went by, and then I noticed I was living in an apartment complex. And my neighbor next door to me was
00:06:37
Speaker
teaching out of his apartment. I saw some people come out with uniforms with the geese on. I go home. That's interesting. So I went over an approach. Yeah, I went over and approached him and he just had a small little group going on because it was in his in his apartment. And I asked him, I said, would he be willing to take on another student? And, you know, he kind of interviewed me and we came to an agreement and that's where my
00:07:05
Speaker
more serious training started. Well, anyway, long story short, he after I trained with him for probably in a small group, an Okinawan style called Shuri-Ru, and it's a karate style. And he was very, very much into the lifestyle of martial arts. And he had a girlfriend that was from Indonesia, and she had set up a training, I guess she had certain connections
00:07:34
Speaker
set up a training with the Buddhist temples up in the mountains of Indonesia, which he was going to go there and live for a while and train. So he said to me, you better go find a dojo because I'm not going to be able to teach you anymore. So I found a dojo in Florida, in Miami.
The Cultural Impact of Martial Arts
00:07:56
Speaker
where I was living, Greater Miami, which is a big city in the United States and one of the biggest cities in Florida, found a place called Miami Karate Academy. Started training there, really getting into it seriously, the lifestyle, the training, the discipline, and it just became a part of me. And as I got
00:08:22
Speaker
into my mid 20s and got away from playing organized sports because they were school oriented sports and I was out of school. I had graduated. This really filled that area that I needed to be filled for my body movement, my competing, but there was so much more. I enjoyed the discipline.
00:08:42
Speaker
I enjoyed the camaraderie of training with other people. Then I got into competing, like you said, into tournaments and I've competed in quite a few tournaments. Everything from local, state, world championships, United States Open, doing kata.
00:08:58
Speaker
fighting and weaponry. I think that is like the movements, isn't it? We call it patterns, I think, in the dojo that I was at. But I think it's interesting that you were sort of mentioning about an ukenauan style. I've very much been into a particular sort of string of movies called The Karate Kid, not like the new one with like Jaden Smith, like the old one, like kind of Daniel LaRusso kind of
00:09:28
Speaker
I've probably watched the series of Karate Kid movies.
00:09:33
Speaker
over like at least like 40-50 times like i had such an obsession with like particularly around like Asian culture and i think you know obviously when when we're talking about martial arts you know a lot of people kind of nowadays you see things like the UFC sort of MMA you see like obviously Taekwondo you see boxing you see like Muay Thai sort of championships
00:09:59
Speaker
which is all very much like focused on sort of the physical discipline of like fighting and competition and stuff but you know as you said there is quite a large sort of cultural discipline sort of mental or even social aspect to martial arts which i don't think is i don't think it's really
00:10:23
Speaker
highlighted a lot sort of in our sort of Monday but I think it was you know it was quite interesting particularly for me to kind of learn around like the backgrounds of it and you know I lived I lived in Thailand and I was around some some monks which who like practiced and do like shows and stuff for the like the tourists and all that so it is it is interesting kind of like the roots of it have you seen the Karate Kid films?
00:10:52
Speaker
I was blown away by the original Karate Kid movie. After that, I watched a little bit of the sequels and it was a bit diluted for me. But the first one, quite honestly, it made me cry. Literally, it really moved me.
00:11:20
Speaker
You know, I know it's some Hollywood and all that, but it really hit a note in my inner being, and I thought it was pretty, for the time, you know, the early 80s, it was pretty fantastic.
00:11:33
Speaker
in a lot of ways and gave the martial arts some great exposure universally, you know, really started to put it out there. And... Mr. Miyagi is like... Because when you were talking about like the individual that you sort of trained in their apartment is kind of making me... You mentioned Okinawa as well, so I was like trying to thinking of like Mr. Miyagi sort of doing his classes with Daniel in like the...
00:12:00
Speaker
you know, trimming bonsai trees and catching flies with chopsticks and stuff like that. Exactly. Yeah. So I think it really opened a big door for the public here, certainly in the States, to really enthusiastically get a lot more awareness and interest in the martial arts. It was
00:12:29
Speaker
It was kind of a watershed moment, I would say, that movie coming out and the exposure it got for martial arts. Supposed to talking about like sort of the, what did you say, the sort of epitome of the movie, sort of like the final fights.
00:12:46
Speaker
between, well how is it, it's Daniel and I can't remember the name of the dude, the guy from Cobra Kai. I've watched it so many times, I can't remember his name. But I suppose sort of leading on from like that epitome of that movie, I mean what is one of the more memorable sort of competitions or fights that you've had which were like
00:13:12
Speaker
particularly like difficult or emotional or sort of had a sort of the most impact on you?
Lessons from Competition
00:13:20
Speaker
Well, competing one year in the world championships and we're talking probably the mid 80s and we were in an arena and there were practitioners from all over the world.
00:13:39
Speaker
And I was getting ready to fight and I was feeling really, I believe I was a brown belt at the time. And so I was fighting in the brown belt division, which is pretty intense division because everybody's hungry to move to the next level. And when you're competing against not only people from your own country, but from South America and Europe and on and on, I'd really trained hard for that.
00:14:09
Speaker
and I was feeling really good about myself and I had some fans there who were going to watch me in my next match and my girlfriend at the time was there and I was just feeling very very confident that I was going to be successful in that fight and I was fighting against a
00:14:33
Speaker
My match was against a Taekwondo practitioner as a matter of fact. Interesting. I know Taekwondo has really good kicking in legs. I knew that and I figured if I could get inside the legs that I would be really successful and had a good chance at winning the match.
00:14:58
Speaker
what happened was I did not get inside the legs. I got kicked in the... I got kicked in the head and really hard and got my bell wrong, was pretty physically dizzy after that and ended up losing the fight and kind of learned a lesson there to never really lost the fight actually.
00:15:25
Speaker
Not proud to say, but being honest and humble to say that at that time, the Taekwondo practitioner was more efficient than I was. And so that's a story that really stuck with me because I realized I was probably a little overconfident and to
00:15:54
Speaker
You know, I had to temper that part of myself and just to, for future experiences, know that, you know, confidence is good. However, you know, I have to be there in the moment and realize that on any given moment, anything is possible and just take it as it comes from that perspective.
00:16:18
Speaker
I think it's really interesting to hear a story. When I first started going around the international circuit, because of my height, I was about six foot three when I started, I mean I still am.
00:16:36
Speaker
But I was pretty tall, so I was in quite a heavy weight division. And one thing about weight class sports is that the majority of people tend to sit in the middle of that weight class. So there's a lot of people who compete in the middle divisions, but not many people on the upper end of things. So I tended not to have too many fights to get through to make it to the finals.
00:17:04
Speaker
But because I was so so it's usually Ordered and seeded based on how many like ranking points you have as a fighter so if you just join as kind of a beginner and you have very little ranking points you tend to be put with a
00:17:21
Speaker
people who are very very good at the start basically because they try and have them on like both sides of the table as people sort of move and fight kind of the middle to the finals and i had this fight i think with like
00:17:39
Speaker
And at that time he was probably number one seeded in the world for my weight class, which was a bit daunting, considering it was probably my second international fight. I remember giving it a good go. I definitely wasn't quite at his level, that is for sure.
00:18:02
Speaker
I remember this because I've always particularly been quite a sort of aggressive fighter. I think I was always kind of a Navy fighter like I had a lot of like panic attacks and meltdowns and stuff before fights or like coming up to the actual sort of event. But I always did it. And when I was actually sort of in the fight, it was very I was very sort of forward front footed kind of fighter and
00:18:30
Speaker
you know obviously this this guy just delivered i think one of the most the hardest back kick that i've ever experienced in my life which is like the i don't know like it like kind of like a horse kick i don't know if there's like a different name and that you you know of
00:18:47
Speaker
but he just absolutely ploughed his foot into my body and I had body armour on but it completely winded me and I think that was probably like one of the more memorable ones for me the other sort of memorable competition would be sort of the Commonwealth which is like a sort of collection of countries who come to fight
00:19:10
Speaker
all come to compete together it's quite a well-known thing sort of in in the UK I don't think it's a US thing though but I'd fight I think well there's three other Australians in my category and I was in the category below heavyweights and there was one guy in heavyweights so they decided to merge the light heavyweights myself with the heavyweights
00:19:36
Speaker
so I ended up kind of like in the final in this very sort of rocky esque kind of movie moments with like the crowd just like shouting because it was like the final fight of the day as well because because of our weight division and it was a very very very sort of crazy experience I have talked about it before so I won't I won't go into too much detail on it but no it's really good to hear sort of your experience as well
00:20:04
Speaker
I'm always, it's always kind of enlightening to hear other people's journey through martial arts, but I suppose focusing a little bit more on like the topic of the podcast, which is kind of around martial arts and autism.
Teaching Transition and Early Experiences
00:20:20
Speaker
At what point did you decide to start coaching and why was it that you sort of gravitated towards teaching autistic and disabled individuals? Okay.
00:20:37
Speaker
It was actually 1991 when I started teaching. I was in the corporate world for employment and I was earning a nice living and still training when I moved out to San Francisco area, what we call the Bay Area in California.
00:21:00
Speaker
Is a very rich Area for martial arts when I moved from Miami, Florida there in 1989 so I wanted to continue my training which I had been doing in Florida for probably oh Since I moved there for 10 to 12 years and I wanted to continue and I was excited when I moved out here because to California into the Bay Area because of the
00:21:30
Speaker
really rich area of martial arts where there was a lot going on there. And so I continued training. I got into different styles when I moved here in 1989.
00:21:47
Speaker
Karate, I got into some Wing Chun Kung Fu, got into some Aikido, Jiu Jitsu, Tai Chi, and just continued on to learn new things. And I guess you could say I was kind of on a mission just to better myself martial arts wise, internally, discipline wise, and I really enjoyed it. It was my passion. It was my spiritual
00:22:15
Speaker
calling, so to speak. And it just felt a big part of me. Well, I met a man and we got talking and just in passing kind of randomly, so to speak. And I told him what I did. I said, I'm in the corporate world, corporate advertising. I'm not really that happy. I said, I'm making a good living, but it's not really sustaining me internally.
00:22:40
Speaker
And it's not where my passion is, my calling, my heart doesn't sing from that. And he said, you know, I told him about my martial arts background and he said to me, he goes, you know, you should consider teaching. I looked at him and with a funny expression on my face, I said, me teach? I go, he goes, yeah, you may not feel like a teacher, but you know more than most. And I started to ponder that. And
00:23:07
Speaker
My coaches were the same. They were like, Thomas, you should get into teaching. And I'm like, I would like to, I would like to. And, you know, I really slept on it for a while and I go, you know, if I don't make a move and do something now, I'm not happy doing what I'm doing in my career. I'm never going to do it. So what I started to do is I, um, I started to advertise. It was before the internet, really. And, uh, in late
00:23:37
Speaker
mid to late 1990. And I was dating this woman by the name of Jennifer, who eventually became my wife. And we would go out on dates. And on a Saturday night, we would go out to dinner and then we would post flyers of classes that I found a studio where I could teach at in my area and that I was leasing space from.
00:24:06
Speaker
And I'd post flyers of my classes and, you know, one free class if you come and see me. And I actually got a lot of business from that. I started doing demonstrations at different local centers, recreation center schools. And I, little by little, started to develop a clientele.
00:24:35
Speaker
a reputation. There were only in my county where I live, there were only a few schools, a few dojos back then. Now there's probably 40 to 50. You could count them on one or two hands, mostly on one hand when I first started, which was fortunate for me.
00:24:57
Speaker
And you know, the Ninja Turtles were big at the time. And so there was a lot of interest from kids. And I kind of built my business around kids at the time, although I also started teaching Tai Chi to adults and seniors about the same time at
00:25:14
Speaker
I did a lot of work at retirement residences, which I'm still at 33 years later for seniors, the Tai Chi. I've heard that the Tai Chi can be quite a good exercise for older people. Yes, very good for the balance. It's not impactful on the body. It's something they can do because it's slow moving so they can be deliberate and take their time and feel what they're doing so it's safe for them.
00:25:42
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Tai Chi's probably the best exercise for seniors. And when I'm talking seniors in my class, I have a woman last week at one of my facilities that I teach at residences. She just turned 107. So, you know, it goes all the way. My median age is probably 85 to 90 in a lot of my places where I teach at. I'm in about seven or eight different places that I teach at Monday through Friday.
00:26:09
Speaker
Tai Chi, that is in addition to all my other martial arts schools and clients. Tae Kwon Do might be a bit too intense. Oh yeah. Okay, do a roundhouse kick. No, no spinning back heel kicks, front jump kicks. That's not happening. So anyway, back to my story. In 1991, I decided to go full time and
00:26:36
Speaker
I was getting a pretty good crop of students. And so I was working at my corporate job and teaching in the afternoons, doing the same until it was enough to sustain me. For about six months, I had two jobs. And then I let go of my corporate work, my advertising that I was in, and went full-time. And I never looked back since. So I'd been full-time, self-employed, teaching.
00:27:07
Speaker
Tai Chi in martial arts for, let's see, I started January of 1991 and it's February of 2000, so 33 years.
00:27:17
Speaker
been doing it full time and earning a living at it. So and what about when so you had your first kind of autistic or sort of disabled student like when is it that you made like the switch to sort of focusing on teaching that kind of demographic of people?
Teaching Autistic and Disabled Students
00:27:38
Speaker
Well, I wouldn't say yeah, I wouldn't say it was a switch. It was a very profound addition to my training.
00:27:48
Speaker
to my teachings. And it was about 1992. And actually a mom, or as you would say in England, a mom, we say M-O-M, you say M-U-M. I watched a lot of Brit box movies, which I'm kind of tired of the American movies sometimes have really enjoying that. It's opened up a whole new world for me. But anyway, getting back to the point, a mom of a
00:28:15
Speaker
kid who I was teaching was an occupational therapist. And she called me up one day and she said, this is about, yeah, about 1992. She said, would you, she said, Al, would you be interested in teaching two boys who have, um, I don't even think she's, the word autism was not even the buzz back then, you know, 32 years ago, and who have some, maybe she said disabilities, some physical, emotional disabilities.
00:28:47
Speaker
would you be interested in working with them privately together?" And I said, absolutely. And so that was my first experience of teaching in that area. And I go, hmm. I said to myself, this is pretty cool. I really connect with them. I resonate with them. I feel them. And I like working with them because I can see the vast, great benefits of doing martial arts, you know, for their
00:29:16
Speaker
their coordination, their fine and gross motor skills, their emotional makeup and how they can gain some self-confidence and some environmental and spatial awareness around them and just using their bodies better and feeling more confident. And I also noticed that I really wanted to make it fun for them to have joy when they were doing it. And I seem to be pretty good at it.
00:29:47
Speaker
I go back to my family roots and my dad was really good with kids. He was a pediatrician, a practicing doctor, physician, and his practice was working, treating kids. And so I probably inherently got some of that energy from him, that ability. So I just seem to naturally, normally connect with people who have now, what we say, who are on the spectrum and
00:30:17
Speaker
non divergent and disability, whatever you want to call it, you know, people here, you know, politically correct and politically maybe incorrect, but you know, people who could use some help. And I just seem to really like a, like a whisperer connect with them. And so I started to little by little from that point on, seek out those
00:30:43
Speaker
associations and groups and schools that work with that type of demographic.
00:30:50
Speaker
Well in terms of like, I suppose, perhaps like specifically like autistic people, were there any like sort of standout kind of highlights sort of either like learning moments for you or sort of successful moments for you or kind of like times times which you kind of approach and perception sort of shifted? Well,
00:31:18
Speaker
I had one student who had autism that I was working with privately. And this is probably about 10 to 15 years ago. And he told me, he goes, somehow we got into a conversation while we were doing our training session. And he said to me, he looked at me and he called me Sensei. And he said, Sensei Al, you know something? You're the only person that I respect on this planet. And I looked at him and I go,
00:31:50
Speaker
okay wow and i thought about that and i'm going like wow you know it stuck with me for quite it still sticks with me quite a bit after that here's somebody somebody who's telling making a statement like that that i'm the only person that he respects now he granted he has autism but and he struggled you know academically um and he struggled uh
00:32:18
Speaker
relationship wise and finding his place in the world and what he wants to do and his mission and everything. But, you know, he was very capable, really good, a very good martial artist, and got a lot of power and was pretty well coordinated. But what he said to me that I was the only person on the planet that he respected. I'm going like,
00:32:41
Speaker
oh my goodness, that's like a tremendous impactful statement that really moving me. And I was honored, I was just completely blown away that he would say that to me. I mean, yeah, I've been giving him my best teaching effort and I'm there to help him. But for someone to say something like that, that was an incredible moment for me. But that's one that just off the top of my head,
00:33:07
Speaker
that was impactful. But there's so many, you know, I have autistic students who I've promoted to black belt, which I never thought would happen occur that what came up through the ranks who have done, you know, years of training, I have a student who's a black belt of mine. And in fact, the original student that I was mentioning referring to earlier, one of the two boys that I that got me started the referral from the from the mom that I was
00:33:33
Speaker
teaching their son, he's still with me 30 years later, and he's one of my black belts. His name is John, and I see him privately and work with him once a week, pretty much for the last 30 years.
00:33:47
Speaker
It's amazing to have students that long standing. He's like a family member. He's like a surrogate son to me. And I know him so well. It does kind of feel like a family system. You kind of have like
00:34:04
Speaker
you know, sort of people within sort of the training halls and stuff. That's why you can get like so much drama, like when people move from like classes to like other people or like, you know, they sort of decide to go somewhere else that can be sometimes a bit of sort of political kind of drama, at least as far as I've seen and heard of sort of in the Dicondo world. How you define success with autism is different than
00:34:34
Speaker
mainstream success to me. And when I see the kids or teens and I work with kids, young kids, teens, adults, like I said, my student who's been with me for 30 years, he's going to be turning 40 in July, this year in July. So, you know, up to that age, I have another girl or a woman now.
00:34:57
Speaker
who has autism, who's been working with me for 20 years. She started with me when she was 16 and she's 36 now that I work with privately. And she's also a black belt, very capable and a really good martial artist and can defend herself and that's how to take care of herself. If anybody tries to grab her, she's got a great blocking system, defense system. She kicks well, she's spot on with her techniques. She knows submission moves,
00:35:26
Speaker
takedowns, so my motto is never underestimate what a person is capable of when you present it to them. It may not be easy for them. It may take patience, diligence, time, and just a lot of commitment and effort, but I'm always wanting to say in the world of autism and also other disabilities,
00:35:54
Speaker
Present and give the person the opportunity and they many times You know, they're not gonna take off like a you know a ballerina always but they're gonna rise to the occasion and From what I found from my experience that they want to do well and once they see little Little bits of success and encouragement from the right teacher the right sensei or the right teacher in any area and
00:36:23
Speaker
they're going to start to believe in themselves, get more self-confidence and see those little steps of success going in the right direction. And no matter how incremental or how small they may be, it's definitely achievable and tangible. I see a lot of commitment, a lot of progress and willingness through encouragement to
00:36:54
Speaker
want to participate. And I've gotten years and tons of resistance over the years. And sometimes it takes quite a period of time to break the ice, so to speak. And some of my best martial artists on the spectrum had been very resistant and hesitant initially. Sometimes it might take a week, a month, or even longer, six months before they want to dive into it. But I stick with it and encourage them.
00:37:23
Speaker
And then all of a sudden, you know, little by little it can happen and they can become, they can just soar. I get quite a few that go, whoa, this is pretty cool. And I can actually do this. And look, there's somebody here who's willing to teach me and, and.
00:37:41
Speaker
And then the whole group rallies around each other. So it's really good for social socialization. You know, they're encouraging way to go. Whoever the person's name is. Way to go. Lily. Way to go. Steven. Way to go. You know, James.
00:37:57
Speaker
And they encourage each other and they feed off of each other and they clap for each other. And that's just really amazing. And it really means, it's wholeheartedly means a lot to each individual to be encouraged and to go, wow, I must be doing pretty well here. I want to continue with this. And it just, you know, evolves from there in a really,
00:38:18
Speaker
powerful and positive way. I've been attacked, I've been scratched, I've been cursed at, I've been, you know, had so many disruptions in my class, you know, there's that end too. So that's where my ability to be patient and loving and compassion and understanding and forgiveness comes in. And for an effective teacher, whether it's martial arts or any teacher with
00:38:47
Speaker
working on the spectrum and teaching on the spectrum. You really sincerely need those qualities. It's not just a job. It's a way of being. And for me, it's my passion. It's become my passion. I love it. I care. I believe in my students. I believe in what I'm doing. And now after 33 years, I have reference points of success for
00:39:17
Speaker
those characteristics of knowing that the students are going to accomplish things and they really develop a sense of purpose and self-accomplishment.
Personal Benefits of Martial Arts
00:39:28
Speaker
Well I suppose it'd be good to kind of talk about I suppose some of like the benefits of you know martial arts. I think from my personal experience I definitely learned a lot of interpersonal kind of social skills through my
00:39:45
Speaker
experiences because I was never really I did become a coach at one point but I was kind of one of the sort of the top sort of people in there that in terms of training terms like belt structure and terms of like success and such and I had a lot of around that time I wasn't the most sort of social myself
00:40:09
Speaker
I definitely found that through my experiences, you know, part of the martial arts world that I started to kind of develop sort of a feeling of being a part of a group or a family around the time that I was sort of competing quite regularly and I was training quite regularly. You know, I was in secondary school and for a lot of autistic people, secondary school or high school,
00:40:38
Speaker
can be particularly difficult and so it's kind of like my, somewhat like my escape and it was also called me anxiety sometimes but it was I think it was generally quite good for me in that way and as I sort of moved through and sort of got myself more accustomed to the environment I definitely took on quite a lot of sort of leadership roles in those in those areas. I think you were saying before about
00:41:03
Speaker
sort of your, one of your parents and how sort of their influence kind of sort of fed into your, your sort of coaching. And my mum's the same. I mean, she's like an autism, one of like the lead autism head. So she was for a large part of England. And I definitely, that kind of stuff rubs off on you, I think.
00:41:26
Speaker
I think there's also something to be said about the nature of martial arts or doing sports or training. Obviously, having quite a stable routine is important for autistic people. And it's funnily enough, I would say one of the more interesting benefits of being autistic in martial arts, that kind of sticking to routine and hyper-focus and such.
00:41:55
Speaker
I think probably the major sort of benefit that I could, you know, talk on, which, you know, it was kind of related to my experience in secondary school, which was kind of like, you know, sort of navigating confrontation, bullying and such. I had a really hard time with that, particularly in secondary school. A lot of instances of both sort of physical, social and emotional
00:42:26
Speaker
bullying. I never particularly used my skills in that fashion, but when I started to get to quite a high level in the sport, started to make the school newspaper and had my face sort of posted throughout the school, people started to kind of not pick on me as much, which was kind of good. Absolutely.
00:42:48
Speaker
And one of, you know, that was definitely a really big benefit for me because my self-esteem was pretty much rock bottom for a very, very long time. And that kind of showed me sort of the benefits of having a bit of grit, a bit of sort of self perseverance, even if things are very difficult, how that can be beneficial. Also, like,
00:43:17
Speaker
stepping outside of my comfort zone is also I think something that you know it is definitely something I did in the martial arts world but also you know those experiences
00:43:29
Speaker
sort of carried on throughout my life, whether it be going to university, living on my own, whether it be going abroad, going backpacking, you know. I've always been, my mum's always had this very sort of great attitude towards me, which is kind of like pushing me to step outside of my comfort zone, but always, you know, feeling okay about sort of retreating and sort of feeling kind of
00:43:59
Speaker
comfortable. So those are the top things that come to mind when I think about the impact of martial arts on my life. Is there anything that you'd like to add particularly about the experiences with your students? Absolutely, Thomas. I think that you mentioned some really great points
00:44:25
Speaker
self-esteem enhancement, self-confidence, sense of self-accomplishment. And what I mean by that is a student of mine, either specifically or in general, learning a technique that they're having difficulty with, and over a period of time, say, for instance, a roundhouse kick or a
00:44:53
Speaker
doing an effective uppercut or how to get out of a wrist grab or a shirt grab and they at first are not
00:45:03
Speaker
really interpreting that physically mentally physically and when they over a period of time practicing and they go oh I got it look at that oh yes and they get a sense of confidence and self-achievement self-accomplishment which is awesome because you know being on the spectrum they are not always
00:45:30
Speaker
witnessing that or experiencing that. So that's a really, a pretty, pretty sort of strong, strong sort of trend that I've seen in some, in some parents, not all parents, but you know, you might, you might, it's something that I've heard from my mom some, sometimes like,
00:45:49
Speaker
or I've seen even myself and heard from other sort of autistic adults that you know sometimes people kind of yeah I think maybe coddle might be the right word sort of try and protect us too much from sort of
00:46:04
Speaker
going out and doing things or in order to telling us that we can't do specific things because of, you know, being autistic. I think, you know, I think definitely like there is a line and it's obviously going to where that line is, where the goals that we set for the individual is, is very dependent on like who that person is and what the capabilities are. And I agree. I totally agree. I mean,
00:46:32
Speaker
If you want to raise the person, raise their capabilities, you must raise the bar.
Encouraging Resilience in Students
00:46:40
Speaker
It's just, you know, and, you know, going to mainstream and then bringing it synonymous with autism on the spectrum, the greatest inventors, the greatest achievers were not afraid to fail.
00:46:57
Speaker
Failure was a roadmap for their success. They find out what works and what doesn't work. And in the world of autism, if you don't present it to them, we're never going to know, they're never going to know, they're never going to have the opportunity to, as you used a really good word earlier, develop that grit, that internal grit to be able to push through things. And sometimes it's not an easy world for anybody.
00:47:26
Speaker
And certainly for people on the spectrum, it has its life challenges. So when you present and allow them to grow and give them new things to work at and develop, it's doing them a great service. And they may be hesitant, not confident, but what you said, another great word that you used or a point that you said,
00:47:52
Speaker
You know, when you coddle them too much, you know, you don't, you don't have any evolution or growth. And I know some people, you know, it depends on the individual. Every person is different and they proceed and operate and interact with the world differently. And I get that. And some people, you know, have different, everybody has different considerations, but I'm one for pushing people to, I'm one to raise the bar.
00:48:22
Speaker
Well, I think it's it's definitely an interesting kind of sort of line of thinking. I think everyone deviates with their own personal experiences and like, you know, if I if I put out like a post particularly about, you know, saying saying, you know, don't let the fact that you're autistic start you from doing the things that you want to do. I get very, very mixed reactions. Some people are like, oh, yeah, you're right. You know, I can do this. And they take it quite positively over people.
00:48:52
Speaker
they kind of, you know, say, well, actually, you know, I'm disabled and this is difficult for me and, you know, you're not really taking into consideration that.
00:49:00
Speaker
People can have all sorts of different reactions when you like kind of speak on, you know, developing that grit and everyone falls somewhere on the spectrum. But I think it's very worthwhile to try and, I suppose, understand. I mean, understand like the mentality that's that's kind of important. So I do think that there is a pretty sort of key like middle ground to it. I don't think that we should be
00:49:31
Speaker
stopped from doing certain things i think there is definitely a lot of utility in doing things differently and providing adjustments and also being a bit more cautious a bit more sensitive around new experiences new things
00:49:50
Speaker
I definitely don't think it should be something that we should stop autistic people from engaging with just because they can find it quite difficult. I think there's a lot of learning to be done in finding new challenges for people to confront.
00:50:09
Speaker
Agreed. But I suppose it'd be good to know, in your personal experience, what sort of mentality do you try to instill within your autistic students when it comes to facing challenges and difficulties that they may have? Yeah.
00:50:36
Speaker
I really emphasize that with my students, especially my private students and my class students, that with some effort and time and time commitment to our practices, you will get better. You will achieve learning of some of the techniques.
00:51:06
Speaker
that the only perfection is the effort and the willingness to move towards doing something to the best of your ability to increasing your effort. And with my teaching, or as you would say, I guess maybe they say in England, coaching, we call it teaching here, but either way,
00:51:34
Speaker
I provide encouragement, lots of patience, sincere compassion when need to be, and try to make it as a joyful and fun experience as possible. Does it work for everybody? Like you said, there's some middle ground there that
00:52:01
Speaker
You know, there's not one straight linear formula that you can apply to each individual is different. And I will tell a parent or a school or a teacher if it's not working for that student at that time.
00:52:22
Speaker
We're not getting the benefit that we're looking for. It's just discouraging them. And I'll let them know. But most of the time, percentage times, I see that the martial arts can be of great benefit. And when I mean great benefit, they're not going to jump around jumping spinning back heel kicks or anything like that. I mean just from a standpoint that they're getting exercise.
00:52:47
Speaker
that their mind is working, their concentration is developing, they're following me in a very specific way because we're working one-on-one and I can keep all the focus on them and they can keep some focus on me. So the thoughts are getting stronger, the processing in the brain is getting stronger, they're getting more used to moving their body, they're developing reflexes, flexibility,
00:53:11
Speaker
coordination, as I said earlier, gross and fine motor skills, the reflexes are getting better, and they're having fun, and they're, they're getting some joy out of it. So those are the experiences that I am looking to instill in my students, and that I see manifesting. And the reason I wrote my book is to tell my journey and the specific stories, which are in the book and the methodology that I use to
00:53:40
Speaker
connect with these students and to bring some joy and some self-accomplishment and self-confidence and some self-defense and teach them how to defend themselves. And some people can't do it. Like I said, there's middle of the road and some people may be saying, who are listening to my interview, to our interview with this podcast right now, may be saying, oh, well, I can't do this. I can't do that.
00:54:07
Speaker
That may be true and it may not be true. There is middle of the road and it's, it's, I'm not saying it's for everybody, but it's certainly, certainly because of the, not being a team sport and being an individual discipline, there is opportunity for a lot more people on the spectrum to be able to participate and to have some success.
00:54:28
Speaker
Well, I think if anything, like, you know, I feel like a lot of what we've talked about can be applied to lots of different kind of situations in life, both for individuals who are listening in and also perhaps parents of particularly autistic or disabled individuals. I think, you know, I would definitely, you know, highlight before we kind of try and wrap things up that
00:54:57
Speaker
you know in all of my experiences both sort of within school and coaching in Taekwondo and sort of working with other sort of kids
00:55:08
Speaker
A lot of them are really sort of starved of a lot of encouragement quite often. I think sometimes in our efforts to kind of protect and make sure that they're okay, we sometimes were a bit wary about them trying new things and taking on things that might be quite difficult for them due to sort of the differences that they have. But I think that's
00:55:33
Speaker
know, definitely something that I would highlight.
Book Promotion and Podcast Updates
00:55:36
Speaker
And I think this is it's been good, been good to chat. And would you would you be able to sort of share sort of the name of your book and where people can find that? Absolutely, I'd love to. It's called Martial Arts on the Autism Spectrum. It's available. It's actually available in the UK on Amazon. And
00:55:58
Speaker
martial arts on the autism spectrum. And the full title is practical tips from three decades of training kids and adults. And if you just search martial arts on the autism spectrum and my name, Al Loren, L-O-R-E-N, it'll come up. And if it doesn't come right up, scroll down a little bit and it'll be there. And yeah, it's my journey. It's my story. And it's backed with a lot of
00:56:28
Speaker
information it's a it's a fun read it's an informative read awesome stuff well thank you very much for that and as usual the links the link to that will be put down in the description of this podcast or the youtube video that comes out if you want to go check that out thank you very much um to al just a little update for everybody before we sort of say goodbye
00:56:51
Speaker
next episode we are going to be talking to a very very lovely lady about cerebral palsy so their experiences with that so stay tuned at the moment where I am sort of taking a bit of putting podcast on the back burner a little bit so you can expect kind of more sort of monthly episodes rather than weekly like it was before
00:57:14
Speaker
but we're still going with them and if you want to stay up to date with all the stuff that's going on in my life in terms of like my business and the things that I'm creating you can always check out the link tree down in the description or type in at thomas henley uk on pretty much any social media site instagram spot instagram not spotify
00:57:39
Speaker
Instagram, YouTube being like the main places that I would highlight. And of course, make sure to rate the podcast if you are on those streaming services like the video and consider subscribing and becoming a member on my YouTube channel to further support the kind of work that I do. Well, it's been an absolute pleasure, Al. Thank you. Thank you so much, Thomas. It's been a great pleasure and I'm really happy that we could do the interview here.
00:58:07
Speaker
likewise all it's been great to hear about your story and your your experience teaching autistic and disabled individuals and i'm sure that a lot of people have got some really worthwhile information from this well guys it's been a pleasure and i will see you on another episode of the 40 auto podcast very very soon see you later guys