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81. Downton Abbey: Hot Takes
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We finally got to deep dive into talking about our favorite show of all time this week. Naturally, please be prepared for HELLA SPOILERS. This show is absolutely incredible, and we barely even scratched the surface of all the things that we love (and hate) about the Crawley household.
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Hosts: Christina Bell & Molly Wilde
Music: The Confrontation, by Jonathan Boyle, licensed from Premium Beats by Shutterstock
Editing: Molly Wilde
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Transcript
Introduction & Excitement about Downton Abbey
00:00:24
Speaker
What's the good word, Molly? The good word is... Downton. Woohoo! Hell yeah. to dive right I guess. um Because it is time.
Spoiler Warning & Viewing Encouragement
00:00:44
Speaker
Time. Well past time, I should say. um We have mentioned... In passing, in the past, I know at some point, probably a few times, that we needed to talk about Don and Abby at some point on this podcast. and ladies and gentle germs, it is that time.
00:01:10
Speaker
Way overdue! We needed like an easy topic today. And there is nothing easier than talking about one of our like mutual favorite shows.
00:01:27
Speaker
Yes. um And i don't know what we're going to say.
Molly's Journey to Loving Downton Abbey
00:01:33
Speaker
i know that I have opinions and i will just say right now from right out the gate there will be spoilers in this episode well yeah hella spoilers because cook honestly why would we talk about it if we're trying not to spoil anything but it's been out for a long ass time hi but so it's not like a new episode just came out last night and we're gonna spoil it for everybody know right that's not a big thing at all exactly but like the point being like no matter what whenever you talk about a show or a movie or a book or anything like you forewarn people when they're spoilers no matter how old the piece of media is
00:02:24
Speaker
yeah i get it i'm just kind of being facetious if you will yeah if you haven't watched it pause this episode go watch the entire series and then come back yeah it might take you a week or two like literally 30 times yeah yeah yeah just wait to listen to this episode and then you know yeah or if you don't care about having things spoiled spoiled listen to this episode and then go watch it yeah See how you feel about what we're going to say.
00:02:59
Speaker
um Yeah, because it's... Like, I don't even know how to, like, begin to address it, you know? Because it's such a big thing in that, like, it has...
00:03:13
Speaker
it literally crawled inside my like psyche and took up residence without invitation and now i can't imagine not having it in my life And I have to say, I'm 100% responsible for that. You are.
00:03:35
Speaker
You really are. yes Because yeah it's my favorite thing to
Character Chemistry & Critique of Fellowes' Other Work
00:03:39
Speaker
like put back in Molly's face whenever i get a chance. that yeah She did not want to watch that show. She tried to give it a chance once or twice and didn't like it. And I was like, yo, just watch it. was like, you're gonna love it. you The thing is that you really do have to like give it more than four or five episodes.
00:04:00
Speaker
I mean, unless you're just into period pieces, like, automatically, then you might get into it right away, which yeah not hard to do, really. it's not hard I never was into period pieces before.
00:04:13
Speaker
Like, this is the first show that's a period piece. that I actually fell in love with. And, you know, that's why I needed the extra push is you need to like be able to get through the first three or four episodes.
00:04:31
Speaker
And then you're, like I mean, by that point, if you haven't been grabbed, then, you know, it's, it is what it is. But like, I had only watched like the first two probably, and it wasn't enough to like really hook me.
00:04:46
Speaker
but k christina insisted and also it was 2020 it was covid and so like i didn't have much else to do so i went ahead and just like gave it another try and got through episode three which we'll talk about why episode three is like the turning point really um and then after that i was like oh I'm in this. Oh, I get it.
00:05:18
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. But the the funny thing is like, Christina likes to, you know, tease and poke about the fact that she got me into it, but now I know it more in depth and more intimately than she ever will. Oh, absolutely.
00:05:32
Speaker
And so I have no problem admitting that because I've only seen the whole series all the way through one time. I've seen lots of scattered episodes, you know, and like, maybe one whole season here and there. Like I've not watched the whole thing all the way straight through.
00:05:50
Speaker
We, we were, me and my hubs got into it like at sometime around season three or four, maybe five. you started it mid, mid season. We were watching it as it was being released. Oh, okay. and like PBS or whatever it was on. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And so i remember when it was like the Christmas, you know, cliffhanger. yeah You know, that kind of thing. And then we had to wait for the following, you know, season start up. And it was like, ah!
00:06:24
Speaker
Ah! But um so I, you know, i did, I did watch like, you know, we caught up and then, because I think we so like, we were renting the DVDs from the library or something.
00:06:37
Speaker
And then we were catching up on Yeah. As they were airing. But I will just say. This is the point that I want to make about this show.
00:06:49
Speaker
And it can become a whole thing we can go into. Or it it could just be me making making a point and moving on. It doesn't matter. But this show to me.
00:07:00
Speaker
Has
Charm of Downton Abbey: Writing, Casting, Production
00:07:01
Speaker
some of the best character. And even just actor chemistry. Of any show I've watched ever. Yeah. Like there's so much good chemistry between everybody. It just seems like this could have really happened and these could have really been real people. Like, yeah, that's how it feels. And unfortunately, because, you know, Julian fellows wrote and I think directed and all that other stuff.
00:07:27
Speaker
He wrote this, um, series, everything he's done since then has fallen flat for me. And I have just not liked it nearly as much. And it's sad because I think he's talented,
00:07:39
Speaker
Yeah. And he's written, you know, the things that he's writing about are all period piece stories, but different time periods and different places and things, mostly England. But anyway, there's the Gilded Age. The Gilded Age, I believe. Yeah. And that's in America. And also have tried to get into that and it hasn't grabbed me yet. No.
00:08:00
Speaker
it's yeah i think i've got mostly through season one if not all the way through and like i don't like the characters i don't think there's chemistry in that show at all and i just i hate that because i really want to like it right right yeah but downton abbey is a whole different story dude once you get into it it's just like you're fucking sucked in and addicted like yeah seriously it's so good it's honestly like pure magic yeah i'd describe it like it's oh something something divine came through and like had a hand in the writing of the show had a hand in the casting of the show and then a hand in the filming and production i have fucking full body chills dude i swear to god For real. Yeah. um Like, it it in I so don't say that lightly. i am a high I'm an intense critic of television. like I'm pretty critical as well. It takes a lot for me to really love television.
00:09:06
Speaker
a show it takes I i am really just so like I'm very hard to please very very hard to please and this show has it all it's like sure do I like really spicy sexy stuff yeah does this show have a lot of sexy stuff no a little bit it doesn't need it it it doesn't need it it has insinuations mm-hmm more than anything and like but like they're good they they like it's what's appropriate and like necessary to tell the story the way that it's meant to be told you know like ah yeah yeah i'll i'll extrapolate on the insinuations it's insinuated that cora and robert
00:10:00
Speaker
the two parents of this noble family, this aristocratic family, Cora and Robert still have a sexy, sexy, a healthy sex life. h It's insinuated that they are very in love.
00:10:15
Speaker
Well, it's very, it's stated that they're very in love. That's, that's like super obvious, but that they're still very attracted to each other. And with three adult daughters, like you know be and them being in their middle age years still hitting it yes and i want to say that the way the way that it's written and like you know as i as i just mentioned that there there's ah
00:10:46
Speaker
semi-steamy scene once or twice. It's not at all, there's no nudity. There's no, you don't see any action. you just kind of see like, you know, them in bed with the with the blanket pulled up to their chest or their chest and like they're you know roll it over a little like winded or whatever. That's about it. But it's like, i will say because there's also no swearing and that all of the adult conversation is worded in such a way that kids would never get it. yeah You can watch this with your whole family, honestly, or you could watch it with kids in the room with no problem. And so that's one of the things I love about it, because I could watch it with my kid in the room or listening from the other room with no problem.
00:11:31
Speaker
yeah And um that's why I want to tell everybody out there, there's no excuse. Put it on. Truly, truly. Yeah. Like, it's just, perfection.
Major Plot Points: Mary's Romance & Turkish Incident
00:11:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:47
Speaker
is' perfection and it's so like okay it's not like we're gonna go play by play plot by plot whatever we're not gonna talk about that but i will say the thing that yeah like the moment the turning point as it were that really like shows the audience oh this is a story worth sticking around for is like I mentioned in episode three of season one Christina do you already can you think of what I'm referring to what I'm about to talk about do you know
00:12:25
Speaker
no Okay. Well, you're going to. You you will. um So, i mean, i will mention episode one literally has like a gay kissing scene. ah So that's fun.
00:12:42
Speaker
I totally don't remember that. Oh my God. Yeah. um And it's necessary because there is a, you know, one of the servants is gay and like it has to be completely clear from the outset that is a part of his personality and well personality but also like a part of his character and it is a huge defining characteristic of his motivations of his like challenges through the whole show her um and so i think that's why they wrote it in there that like that early on um i would consider
00:13:19
Speaker
him his name is thomas i would consider him to be one of the main characters of the show Oh, for sure. i mean, there's a lot of main characters, though. There are, but he is definitely one of them.
00:13:31
Speaker
And he's, you know, sometimes a bit of a villain, but like he is also just like such a human. And I think that's one of the things that i really ah appreciate about all the characters in the whole show and the way they interact and the way they like inform, like what informs their decision making and everything is they're simply just so human.
00:13:55
Speaker
m for all the like conventions that they are bound by when it comes to like you know being a servant versus being like a member of the aristocratic class in 19 teens and 1920s england um like they are imperfect they are like highly volatile in some cases but like they are doing their best yeah um and so there is that but like thomas he's a pain in the ass sometimes but i love him um yeah and then yeah by the end you he really kind of turns around you know his character kind of turns around so like yeah really you don't
00:14:49
Speaker
think about the bad stuff anymore you just like the guy like you see the challenges that he's been through like you you're with them you're with this family through i believe it's a range of like 13 years yeah for 13 or 14 years because like just in the series or are you including the movies Not including the movies. okay We're not going get into the movies yet. um And I still haven't seen the last one, by the way. Oh, shit! But I haven't yet. ok um
00:15:24
Speaker
But for the TV show, which six seasons and the timeline, it goes through history, like actual real world history, ah starting in 1912 on the day of the Titanic s sinking.
00:15:43
Speaker
and technically the day after ish because it was in the papers by then it was like yeah i got the paper about it yeah i um i've never really understood that like i would have assumed that the uh report it and maybe maybe it's not safe to assume that the reporting would have happened in the like five hours after the actual yeah ship sank i would say about the day ah the next day the next day but like basically that's the event that like launches you know this show and it actually does have a direct impact on the family um but that's when it starts april 1912 and ends just after midnight new year's day 1926.
00:16:37
Speaker
um so like that's the timeline we're talking about here so that's i'd say that's about 14 ish years um and so you see you know all of these characters through a good chunk of their life lives but what i'd say like the the character that i'd say has that experiences the most like growth would be thomas i agree yeah like he he's he in just every way he changes like his behavior his choices you know he relapses back into you know poor choices poor behavior bad judgment um but he redeems himself at basically every opportunity yeah and that's why i said by the end of the show you end up liking him because yeah he changes his his ways yeah absolutely um but yeah at first you want to hate him like so bad it's just like you and you're justified you're justified in it like it's you know that's the way he's meant to be received so it works um him and uh oh my god what was her name
00:17:53
Speaker
Sarah O'Brien. O'Brien. Him and O'Brien. Yeah. So he is a footman at the beginning. And O'Brien, Sarah O'Brien, is a lady's maid. She is the lady's maid to Korra, the mother of the family.
00:18:09
Speaker
So, yeah. Those two in the first season are like two... peas in a pod of being just shitty people um and o'brien never redeems herself but again we can't all be you do see her regretting her choices at some point but yeah it's still hard to be like oh she's cool like i love her yeah i never at no point do i feel bad or like you know pitiful not pitiful i don't feel any pity for her at any any point and you know at ah the way she leaves the show is by literally just like
00:18:59
Speaker
leaving in the middle of the night to take another job and like without telling anybody without with like leaving letters to inform them of where she's gone and that she won't be back but like that it's so shitty yeah and it's like you know it's ultimately it's a minor inconvenience because like first of all they have so many other servants so like it's not like you know, Cora's left high and dry necessarily. And also she can put on her own clothes if she has to, but
00:19:33
Speaker
but like, you know, it's, it's not a great thing to do to your employer. Who's been way too good to you. hu So, you know, fuck that bitch. ah Anyway, but I need to rewind way back because I got sidetracked.
00:19:50
Speaker
Uh, episode three. Yes. Please get into it. Season one. Mm-hmm.
00:19:57
Speaker
The family gets a visit from a Turkish ambassador. And this Turkish ambassador is very attractive and very charismatic and is very into the oldest daughter of the family, Mary. And she's very into him.
00:20:17
Speaker
And she is a bit of a rebel, through earliest years but also she sort of pushes convention in like maybe not as much as the youngest daughter sybil but she certainly pushes convention in her own ways throughout the whole show yeah um so this ambassador is visiting and he ah seduces her
00:20:52
Speaker
Effectively. And you don't ever see them actually. i don't even think you you see them kiss once, but it's before he's like gone into her bedroom or whatever. um It is You don't even see them like beginning to hook up.
00:21:11
Speaker
But he dies on top of her. Yeah. So you see them in the bed together. You don't. You don't. What? You don't. You actually don't. Okay. My memory sucks then. We don't even see them starting. like i guess i guess you do. Okay. No, you're right. they you You see them like kissing and he like pushes her back on the bed. But like you know and obviously this is not it is not a coercion situation. It's not a you know essay situation. it is like she wants it, but she's obviously nervous because a she's a virgin. B, she's nobility and virginity is more prized in nobility than anybody common uh and you know it's a huge scandal and also it is just generally a physically risky thing to do you know like like what if you get pregnant uh-oh um and so
00:22:08
Speaker
She's nervous, but she wants it. And so you do see them, like he pushes her back on the bed, but like that's really as far as we go. That's that's just that's as far as we see. Because the next thing we see is her sneaking into her maid's bed.
00:22:24
Speaker
Bedroom, not bed. ah Sneaking into her maid's bedroom to wake her up because this man has died on top of her.
00:22:36
Speaker
during coitus worst nightmare worst nightmare ever yeah it's like incredible that she ever wanted to have sex after that because that would traumatize me um and so she has to enlist the help of her maid And brings her down to her bedroom where this man is dead.
00:23:03
Speaker
Like in the bed. Already pale. Already pale. And looking for all the world like he was having the best time in his final minutes. ah But for real.
00:23:18
Speaker
And the maid says between the two of us we cannot carry this guy. He's too heavy. We need help. And so they enlist. Yeah.
00:23:30
Speaker
Cora, the mom. Which is like every daughter's worst nightmare. Yeah. um But she is such a great mom because obviously she's disappointed. Obviously she is like in a little bit of shock.
00:23:48
Speaker
And very unhappy about having to be enlisted to carry a dead body across the house because this man's body cannot be discovered in Mary's bed. But she handles it over time so well.
00:24:03
Speaker
Like understanding like this is my daughter and my job is to love her no matter what mistakes she makes. Yeah, and then, you know what? Even Dad goes that way after a while.
00:24:17
Speaker
Yeah, well, he doesn't find out for a very long time. Right, but after he finds out, he's, like, you know, obviously really upset and disappointed and all that. Yeah, yeah. Eventually, he gets over it, too.
00:24:28
Speaker
Yeah, and then, like, later on Mary has another, like... not i wouldn't say escapade because that sounds way too racy but like she has another vacation with a man ah that she's considering marrying and her secret is spilled to
Mary vs. Edith: Character Arcs and Growth
00:24:49
Speaker
her father and He takes it pretty in stride at that point.
00:24:55
Speaker
Because at that point, she is a widow. It's not like she was some blushing virgin. Right. You know? So it's like, it's not like she had any thing that she was trying to, like, protect and save for marriage because she'd already been married and already had a child. um But, like... That's with Tony. Yeah.
00:25:16
Speaker
Yeah, Tony is the one that she goes on a vacation with. Yeah, and she basically was like very kind of um forthcoming about needing to know if there's actual chemistry like yeah before marriage. yeah And really also needing to know that what she feels for him is not only just intense sexual attraction. Yeah.
00:25:38
Speaker
And that's exactly what happened because out of that... experience she learned okay we got great sexual chemistry but the fog is cleared in my head and we actually don't have that much in common and and I don't think I want to marry him right and like so it was like ultimately the right choice for her to to make to ah decide to do that even though it was risky like you know it's like socially and physically risky um but through it all
00:26:10
Speaker
these parents they're good parents yeah they're a little intense sometimes but you know society was intense at that time yeah so they're very good parents all things considered yeah and i will say that her character arc was also uh one of my favorites in the show yeah because she starts out real belligerent and like yeah you know kind of snotty and like yeah Maybe a little bit spoiled. Yeah, very selfish. um But she grows up and becomes a really cool like woman in her own right, you know? Truly, truly. she And she never really loses that edge.
00:26:58
Speaker
No, she's always get she's always going to be a little sassy for sure. She's always a little bit bitchy. um But like, honestly, it becomes endearing. in my view yeah um i love mary i she's my she might be my favorite character of the entire show m truly um and i think it's because i see so much of myself in her like i see something like because can be pretty bitchy i really can and it's not something that i feel like i need to change that much about myself like i need to check myself sometimes
00:27:40
Speaker
But like, I think like it makes me a better person to be able to just be a little bit snappy. It is what it is. And if people yeah love you, they're going to accept it. You know, that's all there is to It keeps the right people that need to be at bay at bay. And then it keeps, you know, the people who actually care will like cut through it. Mm hmm.
00:28:08
Speaker
You know? And and so like But, you know, like I said, I i see that, like, I see ah that piece of myself in her. And I see something like, because, you know, it's something that maybe it's because of watching this show. So in like, in depth, and ah connecting with her that I've come to like, accept and appreciate this piece of myself. Because she is so unapologetically herself.
00:28:39
Speaker
and even when it is to the detriment of the people around her but like in the end she does the right thing anyway and the people that love her forgive her anyway yeah so yeah and then on the flip side of that coin we have my least favorite character in the entire show laughing I swear to God, dude, I thought we did an episode where you talked about your dissertation about Edith. No, just mentioned that I have one. Okay, because like you definitely read it all to me or sent it to me. I sent you a screenshot. I wrote it down. Let me find it. Hold on. I wrote this down. I was like, didn't we do an episode about this?
00:29:30
Speaker
oh my God. I wrote this on February 2023. So this was three years ago um Oh my god. It's long! It's longer than I remember. yeah It's very long.
00:29:43
Speaker
Oh my so you
00:29:49
Speaker
My dissertation is titled Reasons Why Edith Crawley is the Worst Character in Downton Abbey. It's not a very eloquent title. And this dissertation is in bullet points also.
00:30:04
Speaker
This bitch... Like, Mary... Mary is a bitch. But she's a redeemable bitch. Yeah. She has redeemable qualities. She is a likable bitch.
00:30:19
Speaker
Edith is an unlikable bitch. Yeah, and very spiteful... yeah sometimes just in the worst way possible yeah so shall i read some of these please bullet points please the the first ones are nice and short and to the point edith is racist ah edith is nosy edith is selfish ahha edith is annoying edith is rash and impulsive
00:30:54
Speaker
edith can't make her own decisions she always relies on what her parents or other like trusted adults in her life tell her to do and i guess like we should probably give a little bit of a character background with with this character middle child syndrome middle child syndrome but like fucking like toxic middle child syndrome um jesus christ oh like she i just remembered okay the brady bunch the middle child i always oh dude the middle okay the middle girl i should say jam
00:31:44
Speaker
she would just always get like pissed at Marsha, the oldest child and be like, marcia marcia Marsha, Marsha. So just remember mad that reference. Oh God. Yes. Yeah. That was big time middle child syndrome. And it just reminded me of that. Anyway, go ahead.
00:32:02
Speaker
Oh my God. Okay. So here's the thing is that Edith is all of these things that I have just listed. And she blames.
00:32:14
Speaker
all of her like woes and all of her bad behavior on mary being a bitch yeah it's like okay so it's like you can't take accountability for your own behavior and your own right choices and actions you have to be well mary was mean to me so many may may you know or just being like we never got along blah blah blah blah blah like yeah yeah shut up bitch um but she is pretty pathetic when it comes to like wishing that someone would fall in love with her
00:32:56
Speaker
um she wants so badly to be she she's she's competitive with mary mary doesn't even need to need to try people are throwing their themselves at her feet and that's not her fault it just is what it is and it's not that edith is an unattractive person it's that she's just got this unattractive aura Yeah.
00:33:22
Speaker
And so she is like... Her vibes be off. Yeah. it's It's like... It's giving like the opposite of manifestation. It's like she's repelling what she wants because she wants it so badly. And like I i have all the sympathy in the world for people who have that plight.
00:33:45
Speaker
Because I have been there and I frequently am still there. But... She does not. She does not make good choices. There aren't too many redeeming qualities about Edith. She makes goddamn wrong choice possible. so like She almost marries a corpse.
00:34:05
Speaker
oh He could be. or He She almost marries a man who's like twice her age and has like an arm injury from World War I. Like more than twice. Like three times. Like yeah. Well older. He's definitely older than Robert, her father. definitely. So like and he's nice.
00:34:23
Speaker
and maybe they should have been they should have ended up together like maybe maybe um but like at the end of the day like he realizes he doesn't care for her the way that she seems to care for him even though her caring seems to be a desperation for like yeah she's like pushing wanting to get hutch hutched hitched wanting to get hitched so badly she's super pushy about so being with him so uncomfortable it's and it's obvious and like her father's trying to pull her back she's she's trying to be like or he's always trying to be like hey don't bother him and she's just like but we're in love
00:35:02
Speaker
um but he this man leaves her at the altar which is in and of itself shitty yeah and she has every right to feel very very bad about that that's awful but then she turns it into a pity party and and she rides those coattails for miles yes i will say i guess we really only see the two sisters the youngest sister does get married but we don't see that wedding uh the two older sisters they both have marriages and i regret to say that edith's wedding dress at that wedding where she gets left at the altar is the best wedding dress of the show really yeah i don't like either of mary's wedding dresses ah um both times that she gets married again spoilers you guys uh so yeah anyway so that happens to edith and woe is me i'm going to be a spinster blah blah blah um
00:36:06
Speaker
And then later on, she meets this wonderful man who, frankly, actually, i wish i do wish could have worked
Edith's Complex Storyline and Personal Struggles
00:36:13
Speaker
out. This wonderful man named Michael. He is a reporter or no, he owns a magazine. Yeah.
00:36:20
Speaker
He owns a publishing company. And then I think she's working for him or something. Yeah. She starts like she starts writing a column for him and then they start to date. This man is married, though, to a woman who's in an asylum and is literally legally declared insane.
00:36:36
Speaker
But because of the laws of England, he can't legally divorce her because an insane person cannot be a guilty or innocent party. And there needs to be a guilty or innocent party in a divorce at this time in England.
00:36:50
Speaker
So he is determined to find a way to to get a divorce so that he can marry Edith, which is very noble of him.
00:37:01
Speaker
hmm. But he does some research and he learns that a couple of other countries in Europe legally don't require fault in a divorce.
00:37:14
Speaker
ah And so he chooses to move to Germany and become a German citizen so that he can legally divorce his wife and then marry Edith.
00:37:28
Speaker
And apparently, and this is over a long period of time, it takes a while for this to be found out, he disappears. And well we later find out he was killed in a...
00:37:40
Speaker
think It's the one of the putches in Munich, I believe. It was the very very beginning of the risings of of the Nazis. Yeah, the very beginnings of Hitler... ah basically not rising to power but definitely causing problems i think the brown shirts were mentioned the brown shirts and and at the point when they do know that he has died ah it's mentioned was it hair hitler um who i guess you know at that point was known as a leader of these bullies effectively
00:38:23
Speaker
um And so he is caught up in one of the, I guess ah i you might call it a riot and gets killed.
00:38:34
Speaker
And that's why he disappears. um But. But, yeah. but Big, big butt. Big, huge butt. Before he left for Germany.
00:38:47
Speaker
He did, first of all, he did the right thing in having Edith sign certain documentation, giving her ah the ability to take over and like run his business for him while he's gone.
00:39:04
Speaker
And they have sex. Yep. And it's a one and done for Edith. And she gets pregnant.
00:39:15
Speaker
And so through all of this, she's got a child. ah Well, this is the thing. This is where I'm like, she makes the wrong choice at every turn. And dear God, do people in her life try to get her like they they try to contain this mess.
00:39:33
Speaker
Yeah. So like trigger warning. abortion mention talking about blah blah blah you know the spiel she of course initially considers abortion and like she basically convinces her aunt that this is what she's going to do and can basically her aunt is like okay finally like if you're gonna do this i'm going to
00:40:06
Speaker
go with you and like make sure that you're okay and you know it's very uncomfortable it's very not what she wants to have to do but she goes and then they get to the doctor and then edith backs out yep and it's like okay so what was that all for yeah and then the aunt and the grandmother
00:40:33
Speaker
Dame Maggie Smith, RIP. ah They both come up with a plan and Edith and her aunt, Rosamund, go to I guess, Switzerland. Yeah, Switzerland. They go to Switzerland for like 10 months so that Edith can have this baby away from everybody that she knows.
00:40:58
Speaker
Mm-hmm. And then give the baby up for adoption in Switzerland to a good family.
00:41:09
Speaker
They go through all this trouble. And they come back. She leaves the baby in Switzerland. And then... Because she is just desperate to like cling to anything that will get her like love and attention and affection. Yeah.
00:41:28
Speaker
She goes back to Switzerland and takes the child from the family that has adopted her and brings her back and places her with a farmer family in the village near her family's estate. Uh-huh.
00:41:50
Speaker
this saga pisses me off so much she puts her she puts her child in the arms of loving mothers multiple and then rips her away because she can't fucking decide what she wants yeah it can't figure it out she can't get her fucking emotions in check yep so this poor family Not to mention, what's best for the kid? Right. Certainly not, you know, ripping her away from things she's, you know, getting bonded to like that. Like, you just, God, what the fuck?
00:42:27
Speaker
You and I have. have the right to be talking about this shit let me tell you really do oh my god so oh there is nothing worse i one of the worst there are so many very very emotionally challenging scenes in this show one of the worst ones is when edith goes to this poor family what is that what is their last name i cannot remember the druze oh that's right yeah um
00:42:58
Speaker
They have their own children. They have three children. Edith's daughter is the fourth. The ah mother of this farmer family does not know that it's Edith's child, but the father does. the father the father does She's she has recruited him.
00:43:18
Speaker
And is given the pretense or the lie that ah that this child is the daughter of friends of his who died.
00:43:30
Speaker
hmm. that is why or that's how he like is able to like justify bringing her in. And then this mother falls in love with her. Mm hmm.
00:43:44
Speaker
And it is so heartbreaking when Edith finally decides, I can't do this, even with her being so close. And especially because she's been so bothersome, pestering this family, pestering this mother. yeah Overstepping her bounds with wanting to visit the child all the time. And the mom's like, what is the deal? This isn't appropriate. Yeah. She's trying to have boundaries. And Edith won't respect them. And she's getting increasingly distressed.
00:44:15
Speaker
all of them are and finally edith has had enough and she shows up she shows documentation saying this is actually my child and i'm taking her now and the way this mother ah the actress absolute queen she's so good screaming at her husband screaming at edith and The way that she says, like, you could have, like, you couldn't have been more false if you'd taken a mistress.
00:44:46
Speaker
hu Like, this is the worst thing you could have done to me. And it's really, I mean, I feel bad for the man. Truly, because he's trapped trying he's trying to help her. He's trying to help Edith. And he thought it would be a good thing to have, you know, another child because they love children. They love their children. and They wanted more. And he's stuck because he's trying to do a good thing and she's the one who's done this to them. Yep.
00:45:17
Speaker
It's so distressing. She just leaves a wake of fucking, you know, bullshit in her path everywhere she goes. Yeah.
00:45:29
Speaker
Honestly. Um, so that happens. And like, She goes, she takes the child, Marigold, and she goes to London and she does this whole dramatic, like, she leaves while the rest of the family is off at, like, a horse race. And, like, she makes this, she makes it this whole dramatic thing. Like, I'm leaving, blah, blah, blah, blah. She's so distressed and upset and, like, you know, definitely is trying to make it seem like, you know, they drove her away and blah, blah, blah. Yeah.
00:46:04
Speaker
um and she just goes to London which she does like every other week it seems anyway so like what the fuck um is this when she gets her own apartment she well she's left uh michael's apartment is left to her and his will okay um so like she has that but she goes and like stays in a hotel with marigold to start and it's this whole big deal and cora and rosamund the aunt uh go down to london to try to reason with her
00:46:46
Speaker
and the decision that they come to is we're going to basically put the story up about like let it be believed that the drew family can't take care of a fourth child anymore oh and you've become so attached to the child that you couldn't bear to see her sent off to an orphanage So you've decided to formally adopt her.
00:47:15
Speaker
Yeah. I think they call it taking her as the, as her charge or something. Effectively like her ward. um And so like, that's the story that they're going to tell to, you know, the family to explain why is this random child in our nursery? Yeah. um So yeah.
00:47:39
Speaker
you know the thing that like really you get glimpses of edith's inability to make her own decisions through the whole show but the real big moment where you it's clear she really can't is when she's like up there doing this performative like oh the drews have decided they can't take care of this child and i've decided that i should take care of her because i like her so much blah blah blah and like she's basically pushing
00:48:10
Speaker
like begging for her father to turn around and say yes i approve of this plan edith i like it do it But he's over here distracted by his dog that's dying of cancer. And so like he's he's laying on the ground, like trying to like take care of his dog and Eve is like, what do you say, Papa?
00:48:31
Speaker
do you agree? Should I do it? the It's like the decision's already made. Stop. You're embarrassing yourself. Like, Jesus Christ. It's just so like fucking pathetic. She's just begging for approval for everything.
00:48:49
Speaker
Actually, like really, truly. Oh, my God. oh and I guess. OK, so like that's I still have so many points on here. The next point just just says desperately seeks the attention of the men that Mary has cast aside as suitors.
00:49:05
Speaker
And repeatedly taunts Mary about her lost loves. um Oh, she exposes Mary's secret about the Turkish ambassador dying in her bed. She fucking writes to like the Turkish emm embassy in London about it. i can't even remember how Edith knows about it.
00:49:28
Speaker
How did she find out? basically. Oh, she basically like coerces Daisy into telling her because Daisy, the the scullery maid slash kitchen assistant maid, ah is the one person that spotted Mary and her maid, Anna.
00:49:48
Speaker
and their mother and her mother carrying the dead body across the house. Daisy's the only one that saw. And so when Edith suspects that Daisy knows something about something that might have happened in Mary's bedroom, i she like pressures her into telling what she saw. How gross. i know. How gross. It's so gross. Oh my God.
00:50:18
Speaker
Oh, and also before all this drama with the man that um gets killed by Hitler. She also, like, in the, I think it's season two because it's, the like, during the war period of time.
00:50:32
Speaker
um World War I. She, shee like, kind of gets involved with a married man. oh Like, another farmer.
00:50:46
Speaker
man husband guy doesn't she kiss the drew guy at some point too no it's a different ah a different man okay she doesn't she doesn't kiss uh mr drew but there's another farmer man that she does kiss wait it's wasn't didn't drew teach her how to drive no it's the other one oh wow god i got them confused bad actually no it was tom that taught her how to drive Or ah the tractor. No, the tractor. She already knew how to drive at that point.
00:51:17
Speaker
I know, but like... One of the farmer people like taught her to drive the tractor or something. she did So the way that it was, was that she learned to drive ah from Tom, the chauffeur who becomes the husband of Sybil, the youngest daughter.
00:51:33
Speaker
um Tom teaches her how to drive and then she already knows how to drive. And that's how she gets basically hired on, even though I think it's volunteering. uh to help the one of the farmer families okay during the war because all the young men have been sent off to war okay um and she's like i know how to drive so i can drive your tractor okay um and again whoever it was that she was working with at that time that's when they yeah have a little kiss thing yeah it's not a whole it's not a full-flung affair but it is like you know she's
00:52:08
Speaker
going for a happily married man and then you know yeah i was gonna say she either spots them or she suspects something i know that that yeah and then she's basically like don't come back here we don't need your help anymore you know it's just like cut eat it like mind your business like jesus christ oh my god so
00:52:34
Speaker
And like a lot of these points that I've made are are different pieces of the story, the saga with her baby and the Drew family. um But like,
00:52:48
Speaker
who all of this. culminates in a big old fight at the uh near the end of the last season finally between edith and mary and it's you know neither side is in the right yeah you know um ultimately it is The fact that Edith has done her damnedest to keep Marigold, her daughter's identity, ah ah secret from everybody possible, especially Mary, because, you know, she just knew, like, if Mary knows about this, like, she'll make my life a living hell.
00:53:36
Speaker
Which is not the worst, not a wrong assertion to make. um Not in an incorrect assertion. Right.
00:53:47
Speaker
And so, Edith is, in at this point in the last season... in love with and going to accept a marriage proposal for ah from a marquis which is a pretty high-ranking nobility position uh and he's a good man we like we like this guy i can't remember his first name right now Bertie.
00:54:16
Speaker
That's right. Bertie.
00:54:21
Speaker
He's good. But she is basically they've they've decided they're going to get married. And again, big problem with her is that she is so afraid of judgment that she's she didn't tell him yep that Marigold is her daughter. He knows that she exists. He knows that she's her ward.
00:54:45
Speaker
He does not know that it's her actual biological daughter. And i my, it's never directly said, but it's my personal belief that if she had been honest, he would have been so accepting and fine with it.
00:54:58
Speaker
ah But she chose not to. She was too afraid. Yep. That almost ruins her chances with him. Yeah. Because Mary, who has,
00:55:13
Speaker
teased out the truth through like just standing back and observing. Oh yeah. She fussed it out on her own. Yeah. She, she figures it out. And then the very first time like needed, it's like resting too easy thinking that Mary doesn't know. Yeah.
00:55:29
Speaker
two And they all sit down at the breakfast table and they insinuate, Edith and Bertie insinuate that they are going to have some happy news.
00:55:43
Speaker
And everybody knows, oh, that news must mean that they've decided to get married. And so Mary turns to Bertie and is like, oh, so Edith must have told you ah and poor Tom's over there like Mary don't do that what the fuck what are you doing oh yeah Mary wants to fuck her like up this is so bad they're just constant rivals constantly because here's the thing Mary knows she's like well it's no big deal if she did tell him like if she did tell him then like
00:56:25
Speaker
it's okay and she i think she even says it even shittily she's like oh you must be so accepting um and but the thing is mary knows edith a and mary knows edith hasn't told him right so she's always stirring the pot like so she's acting like oh she must have told you yeah if you've decided to get married but she knows they didn't he doesn't know stirring the pot Yeah. And so she's like, who, you know, who Marigold is, who she really is.
00:57:01
Speaker
And basically forces Edith into a corner, needing to admit in front of not the whole family, but just like Mary and Tom to this man.
00:57:15
Speaker
She is my biological daughter. hmm. and birdie is very taken aback it's a big deal and he excuses himself and he leaves and you know he admits like ah like you know you should have trusted me but like now we'll never know yeah yeah and you know we do get what feels like a little bit of a forced happy ending for edith because months later he's like still heartbroken over her and he still wants her and so he decides that he's gonna take her back even though ah you know she was very shady said shitty and you said shady shady and shitty um
00:58:13
Speaker
So, you know, it's a little bit shoehorned in my opinion, but like, you know, whatever. Yeah, there had to be a happy ending written for Edith in the end because she just has literally had the worst life ever.
00:58:26
Speaker
Yeah. yeah like it's honestly a little rich girls poor little rich girl poor little like chaotic messy sloppy bitch rich girl like oh my god honestly honestly But, you know, like, whatever.
00:58:48
Speaker
ah um Yeah. And then, I mean, like, not like we have to get into every goddamn thing, but, you know, my other hot take that I feel so strongly about.
Violet's Past Romance & Character Complexity
00:59:01
Speaker
We're going to about grandma now. We're going to about Maggie Smith. Oh, I love her. Oh my God. Oh my God. She there there's okay. Y'all, if you haven't watched the show, there are about a hundred different side plots through this entire series with all the different characters that, that are in it.
00:59:18
Speaker
They each have their own storyline. It's like crazy and very, very like involved and like, gripping and then like you just love every fucking character except for edith every fucking character by the end of the show you're just like your heart is bursting about everything yeah and met and maggie smith is amazing in this show i mean her little comebacks and one-liners are just gold
00:59:55
Speaker
brilliant gold i could watch hours upon hours of maggie smith just being a sass queen in this show um what's his weekend the the people who've ever had to work don't have any clue what i mean we and not a single fucking clue um okay but you know dame maggie smith our our lovable granny violet She has, you know, her own spicy past.
01:00:26
Speaker
Oh, yeah. oh And she, you know, it comes to light in, I think, about season five. ah Fell in love while she was married, ah fell in love with a Russian...
01:00:43
Speaker
nobleman prince guy um who was already married also and they were gonna run to get run away together and they didn't but he resurfaces through a series of events that is too much to try to get into now and not important he is back he is in england he resurfaces in her life and they Basically, they reconnect, but, you know, through it all, like she
01:01:15
Speaker
ah is so just struck by him. And like, you know, the fact that after all these years, I think she's still attracted to him.
01:01:27
Speaker
Oh, sure. And he's hot. And he wanted her. and And he was like trying to get her to be with him. Yeah. And that's that's the thing. And like she, you know, her, ah what she was trying to do during this time was trying to track down his wife because she was shipped off somewhere after the Russian rebellion and the fall of the aristocracy in Russia.
01:01:56
Speaker
And So yeah she uses Violet uses her connections to try to track down Prince Karagin's wife. That's right. Because she believes she owes it to her.
01:02:08
Speaker
um And Prince Karagin, apparently it wasn't a happy marriage with... for Prince Karaghan. Like he wasn't, he, he was not that into her, his, his wife. Yeah.
01:02:21
Speaker
And not to say that he was saying like, don't find her, let her languish in some foreign country. Yeah. He was resistant to her being found. Well, he, I mean, he it wasn't that he was resistant to her being found, but he was resistant to being forced to be reunited with her. I think.
01:02:39
Speaker
Okay. Like, Because, you know, for sure he he would have been fine with, okay, like, bring her back to, like, England or France or wherever. Let her be happy and safe and healthy. Like, but I don't want to be with her anymore. Because he professes his love, his undying, enduring love for Violet.
01:03:04
Speaker
Say what you will about it, but my personal opinion is... she should have accepted him.
01:03:15
Speaker
It's fine that she didn't. She's a very old lady. She's entitled to, you know, make fashion old fashioned, but also like, you know, she just, she just was
01:03:31
Speaker
too conventional. I would say maybe, which is also old fashioned, but just like, she just felt like it was not the right thing to do. Yeah. and I wish she had because like, why not?
01:03:47
Speaker
Plot twist. Plot twist. I wish she had, she should have ended up with him. Like, you know, even if they're too old to get it on, like, you know, like happy companionship.
01:04:00
Speaker
um You know, she would have been happy. Like, it seems like they were a good match, ah you know? So yeah. Yeah. Anyway, I want to say you were talking about, you know, your favorite character.
Favorite Characters: Tom Branson's Transformation
01:04:17
Speaker
And i was just going to be like, okay, I think. oh yeah.
01:04:21
Speaker
so You have a favorite. I love Tom Branson. Yes. With all my heart. and um definitely Maggie Smith. And then ah Matthew's mom and their little rival rivalry thing. Oh, yeah. Isabel. hmm.
01:04:39
Speaker
Yeah. I always forget their names. Like I have a hard time remembering all the names, but Matthew is Matthew is the um Mary's first husband who I don't want to give that away completely, but he he doesn't make it past like the first or second season or whatever it is. End of the third season. Oh, end of the third. Okay. Yeah.
01:05:02
Speaker
And then, yeah, his mom is spicy as well. She is like so interesting. She is smart and witty and she can stand up for herself against Maggie Smith. yeah And we love that. She is like an absolute champion of like progressive politics. and progressive social like everything like she is and medicine yeah she is a progressive person in general who has been effectively thrown into this family of aristocrats who you know the older generations are like if not progressive at least like slightly open-minded except for violet um and the younger generation the daughters are like
01:05:54
Speaker
pretty open-minded you know but not necessarily ready to just sort of i mean except for sybil and not risk not necessarily ready to like completely bring break with like convention and tradition um sybil being the giant glaring exception the youngest daughter yeah the youngest daughter the one who marries tom branson the chauffeur um honestly as much as it sucks and as much as i love sybil i love her i think it was unfortunately the right move for her to not survive her childbirth
01:06:41
Speaker
um it's that is a massively unpopular opinion ah but i think and this is where it's like it's clear to me at least like the writers could see their like not flaw or mistake, but like they could see where there was not going to be a whole lot of dynamic Nis going forward with just three daughters.
01:07:16
Speaker
And so the way that they did it was masterful. The way they wrote it was masterful by swapping a daughter for a son and in in tom branson and tom branson because son-in-law he is the son-in-law and but he is like you know both of them did the big flip-flop like sybil being a noble you know an aristocrat's daughter and deciding i'm gonna train to be a nurse i'm gonna work as a nurse and then i'm gonna marry this like commoner and
01:07:55
Speaker
who's not only a commoner, but like an Irish rebel. Yeah. Who totally hates the way of life of their family. He's like a Marxist communist.
01:08:05
Speaker
ah and You know, she's going to throw off all of the like expectations of her family. And then by her dying and leaving behind a daughter,
01:08:22
Speaker
like and just you know widower effectively um in tom branson forces him to make the flip-flop in the opposite direction yeah as going from like a marxist communist like irish rebel to like an upstanding member of aristocratic society and it's a very difficult transition ah but he does it as well as he possibly can which is pretty damn well that's a really good story arc i love that story yeah with that family and him yeah yeah and it's not like he he always is a leftist like he never yeah he never is that right He just recognizes that the love that Sybil's family has for him outweighs all of those things and he loves them so much for them. And he he becomes a like a proponent of like loving people for who they are regardless of their station.
01:09:30
Speaker
Because you know he's basically... you know He started out as a servant. He started out as a servant and he had no great love for anybody in the aristocrat class. Like, truly.
01:09:42
Speaker
And later on, he's confronted with that reality when like there's somebody that he meets who shares his previous view, like more extremist views. Yeah. um this I shouldn't say extremist. it's It's certainly just about as left as I am currently and it's not extreme, but... like someone who looks at this family the crawley family with disdain and thinks that they're backwards and thinks that they're not good people and casts judgment upon them and tom is pretty hurt by that like he i mean he uh
01:10:29
Speaker
Obviously, he knows like it is what it is and everybody's going to have their opinions. He understands why this woman has the opinion she has. But he does not. Yeah, the teacher. that they try They have a little tryst.
01:10:46
Speaker
like didn't they try but sarah anytime that tom invited her because like he was very ensconced in the family by this point he is he is a member of the family he like gets dressed for dinner and everything um and he tries to have her join them for dinner multiple times and she is just belligerent and rude to the family yeah at every turn and it admittedly robert doesn't handle that interaction very well like none of it he like he the father of the family is like not just because this is someone that tom is interested in after being married to his daughter but because she's just like some of the stuff she said at the dinner table i know it was written for the plot but like oh my god
01:11:33
Speaker
yeah Shut up. It was just rude. Why in your right mind would you think that's okay to say? Yeah, doing that in the family's house at their dinner table. Yeah. yeah like suffer in silence for an hour and then politely decline all future invitations like or like pass pass them on the street and have words with them there or something like not yeah dinner in their house certainly understand that like you're not gonna change any of their views by being rude to them in their own home when they've invited you for dinner exactly oh my god just make yourself look like a dumb asshole yeah yeah and so she like she did it to herself and tom basically said it like you know when she finally was leaving and she was like we never had any chance he's like well you you did it to yourself yeah you never gave them a chance right and like it's true and it's just like it's cool to see him
01:12:34
Speaker
have that arc where he becomes more of a humanist than like a communist which is fine like I said I have nothing against communists I am a communist but like like he just he transitions in a way that's very admirable yeah and I just love him i just love him yeah love him yeah really but like Yeah, he's just such an endearing character and his face is just lovely to look at. Oh, he's so attractive. He's attractive, but in an unconventional way. Like he's just, yeah there's something so sweet about him. Like he just is like a sweet, loving person. And like, I just love that. Every time you see him, you feel that feeling and you're just like, he's loved mom so much. way Oh, yeah.
01:13:33
Speaker
oh yeah ah i loved man oh too really loved him yeah i was overwhelmed with what happened yeah god he had beautiful eyes oh lord ah you know i've seen him in other stuff since then and like yes sometimes he's unrecognizable it's just like holy shit that's matthew from downton hammy yeah but you always see the eyes and you know it's like oh my god yeah he's got these beautiful like bright crystal clear blue eyes yeah they're gorgeous he was um he was the beast in beauty and the beast oh live action i did not know that yeah oh shit he was he was the cgi beast he like did the like uh
01:14:21
Speaker
um the suit with the dots um to be the beast and he was human beast after that's oh man I never you know i so I tried to start watching that one time and I never like got much of it so I have to do that i have to try it again finish it it's good it's good anyway i think we gotta go you guys have to watch this show yeah you will be hooked And you will thank us.
Conclusion & Call to Action
01:14:53
Speaker
I am not kidding. Yeah. yeah And like these are some like, you know, some of my bigger, more like
01:15:03
Speaker
uh intense takes for the show but i know there's more so maybe one day we'll talk about it again yeah there are so many like stories so many subplots we did not even get into oh god the myriad i couldn't even count them i couldn't even count them yeah oh i love um i'm my god i know her name and i can't think of it uh
01:15:32
Speaker
Anna? No, the cook. Miss Patmore. Yeah. love mrs patmore and like she's annoying at first but she gets really funny after a while you're just you start like getting used to her humor and she gets a little bit more good at delivering her lines in that way and so it's just like you just love every time she's on the screen you're like what's she gonna say now yeah and oh my god the way that like i we so don't have time but the way that we've gotten through this entire episode not even mentioning carson I know I just thought of that I'm like why in the hell have we Carson he's a butler butler and he is the most amazing I mean although he's super old-fashioned and stuffy in a lot of ways there's so many amazing things about him that yeah I just love his character so much he's incredible and it's not only i mean like he's like the dad or the uncle that I wish I had like it's enough to just listen to his voice his voice is so beautiful it's deep and like just rich very rich rich sounding voice if i ever had a butler i would need a butler with a voice like that yeah anyway yeah
01:16:48
Speaker
But his old fashionedness when it comes through is really funny. You just want to laugh at him like, oh my God. It's comical, but it's also like endearing. um For sure. Okay.
01:17:00
Speaker
i i really do have to go. Okay. Wrap it up. Wrap it up. Yeah. This has been Thoughts About Downton Abbey.
01:17:09
Speaker
Hopefully you have enjoyed listening. Now I really think I just need to start watching it again from the beginning. Yeah. Just like... oh Oh my god. absolutely should. Please do. Because I want you to gush at me about everything. so you know.
01:17:28
Speaker
Anyway. you gotta go. But we love you guys so much. Thank you for listening. We'll be back again next week. If you're fans of Downton Abbey, we want to hear about it. Please. Yeah, we want your Downton Abbey opinions. it however you can. We're not going to go into socials right now. We don't have time. But you know where to find us. Look in our description.
01:17:49
Speaker
Bye-bye. We love you. Bye, friends.