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Episode 57—Joe Donahue on the Art of the Interview
129 Plays8 years ago
Joe Donahue hosts The Book Show and The Roundtable for WAMC Northeast Public Radio out of Albany, New York. He's the best interviewer you've likely never heard of, and it was a distinct pleasure to speak with him again. "My job really is to present a person and get to the bottom of them, if you will," he says, "and ask questions that hopefully people want answered." He learned from Larry King, Fred Rogers, and honed his craft over a lifetime of radio. Seriously. A lifetime. He wanted to be a broadcaster since the age of four. Please leave a review wherever you get your podcasts and share this with a friend. Thanks for listening!
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Transcript
Introduction to Joe Donahue and His Influence
00:00:00
Speaker
As we get started with today's program, you should probably know how big of an influence my guest has had on me as an interviewer over the years. His name is Joe Donahue, and he's the subject of episode 57 of the Creative Nonfiction Podcast, the podcast where I speak with the world's best artists about creating works of nonfiction.
Joe's Radio Journey and Influences
00:00:22
Speaker
He's been in radio practically his entire life, much of it with WAMC, Northeast Public Radio, based out of Albany, New York. He hosts the Roundtable and the Book Show for WAMC. And let me just play a little clip here. Take this intro from the Book Show. Welcome to the Book Show, a celebration of reading and writers. I'm Joe Donahue.
00:00:45
Speaker
George Saunders is considered one of the great masters... Now, that when I started this podcast five years ago, I used Joe's model of the book show to a T. I even stole his introduction. This is a deep cut from episode one. Welcome to hashtag CNF, a podcast about reading and writing with authors in the genre of creative nonfiction. I'm Brendan O'Meara.
00:01:14
Speaker
Let's finish out the category. I'll take plagiarism for 2000, Trebek. Things have changed over the years in terms of style, but I owe so much to Joe's skill as a broadcaster and interviewer. I live 3000 miles across from that broadcast signal, and I still tune in to hear him work. He's probably the best interviewer you've never heard of, and every bit is good, if not better, than your Terry Grosses and Trevor Noahs. He's on that level.
00:01:41
Speaker
But here's the thing, the book show and most if not all of WAMC's programming is available in podcast form. You can also stream it at WAMC.org. So I suggest you subscribe at the very least to the weekly book show and follow Joe on Twitter at Joe C. Donahue.
00:01:59
Speaker
In this episode we talk about the art and structure of an interview while also keeping improvisation a possibility. He tells us how to be better interviewers and lets us into his process and also shares what he learned from mentors like Larry King and Fred Rogers. That's Mr. Rogers to you. That's it. May the muse rise up to meet you and may the riff always be at your back. Thanks for listening.
00:02:35
Speaker
I was born in
Voice in Broadcasting: Training and Challenges
00:02:37
Speaker
Washington, D.C. I moved when I was three, I moved to Philadelphia and then my entire schooling from grade school to graduation was in outskirts of Philadelphia, Montgomery County, which was Norristown and I went to Wissaken High School.
00:02:56
Speaker
And I was, I was a weird kid in the sense that I knew pretty much that I wanted to do radio from the time I was four or five years old. And I never really changed that. So the way I would play would be that I would like play radio and my friends and I had a radio station in the closet and we would
00:03:22
Speaker
do radio shows and that kind of thing. And, and I, I mean, I have tapes going back to, yeah, when I was four or five years old, six years old doing that. So that was, that was my thing. And then when I got into school, it was a lot of, uh, well, when I got into, when I got into middle school and to high school, there was a lot of cable TV was just starting. We had a cable access channel out of our high school. I did a lot of broadcasting there, did a lot of TV.
00:03:50
Speaker
shows, daily things, daily news, uh, daily news briefs, and also did a lot of stuff as far as the announcements and that kind of thing. And then, and then when I was seven or eight, I started to work at a local radio station just doing commercials. So in that sense, that was my, that was a lot of what I did. I, my first job besides the radio stuff was I was a page at a library. So,
00:04:20
Speaker
I grew up as the son of a librarian. I read a lot and I spent a lot of time reading, but also doing the radio thing. So most of it, as, as it is today, I noticed my life sort of verging with my social life and my professional life. And it was very much the case when I was a kid as well.
00:04:45
Speaker
What do you think the appeal was when you were so young to audio, specifically radio? What were those early little broadcasts like when you recorded those in the closets? And what did you make of that? And what was the appeal?
00:05:02
Speaker
I think the appeal was, in the beginning, honestly, I think the appeal was a deep voice. I think the, not that I had one, but the guy on the radio did. And there was a radio station in Philadelphia, outside of, in Philadelphia, that we got called KYW News Radio. And it was a 50,000 watt clear channel station, clear channel in the broadcasting sense, not the corporate sense.
00:05:30
Speaker
of was a station that you could hear pretty much everywhere. Once all the other AM stations turn their, their signals down at night. And it was, uh, I mean, they had the power to close school for goodness sakes. They, that's where you heard that. And it was those booming voices and hearing that. And also I would add that my parents who were older parents, I'm the youngest of five, so my parents were older.
00:05:57
Speaker
and depression kids and grew up in the depression. And so by the time I came around, they were playing a lot of public radio, which included a lot of a lot of old time radio shows in the early days of public radio. This is in the 70s and 80s. And so that was a big thing too, where you would hear Jack Benny and Fred Allen and Ferber McGee and Molly and Rowan Ranger and
00:06:22
Speaker
the shadow and all those shows that we listened to all the time. So those were all things that I would listen to and was a lure for me. When it came to the actual, when it came actual for my play time, it was always doing the news. It was either being a DJ or doing the news. And I always, normally I would gravitate to doing the news. That was more up my alley.
00:06:51
Speaker
As you've developed over the years, you clearly have this great radio voice. And even in person, it is your voice. It's not like you turn on this switch when you're in front of a microphone. What do you think you would have done if you ended up having the worst voice ever? Yeah, I don't know. There's a couple of answers to that. One is that, first of all, my wife will often say when I say,
00:07:18
Speaker
When I'll be at the dinner table or I'll be talking to her, she'll say, don't use your radio voice. So there, there is something, there's, there is, there is a difference from how you are when you're broadcasting versus when you're, when you're talking. When I was a kid and I was in high school, I remember this vividly and in middle school, uh, there was a, there was a kid who, um,
00:07:41
Speaker
Well, I won't name him, but he was a jerk. But he always said that, oh my God, you're never gonna go anywhere you sound like, I can't believe you're gonna go into radio, you sound like a muppet. And that always bothered me, but then as I grew older and you realize that you can train your voice and you can work, and I've done both public radio and commercial radio, and I listen to those commercial radio tapes, and I sound a lot different than I do in public radio,
00:08:09
Speaker
But, uh, you do train your voice and you worry about your voice. And I think it is that broadcasting is probably maybe 60% your vocal cords and the rest of it is the training of it. And knowing how to enunciate and knowing how to say all of your syllables and completing every word. And once you've got that down, you can actually learn that and hopefully between the two, you can scrape together a career.
00:08:37
Speaker
It's interesting to hear you, I think it's intuitive maybe but to actually articulate it in a sense that it is your vocal cords are your bread and butter and it's in your voice and cadence and enunciation is something you can actually train for. So what do you do to keep your voice in shape? What did that training look like and how do you take care of your voice?
00:09:05
Speaker
I think it's maybe even less about the voice and more about the about enunciation and style. And sometimes you can still get lazy in that regard. And for that, the best thing to do for training is to listen back to a tape and say, oh, you're getting lazy, you're doing this, you're dropping that G, you're saying this and becoming aware of it. And that's the same thing of when I'm on the air and I listen back and I say, wow, you said
00:09:34
Speaker
You said like way too many times or right. And if you're aware of it, you can usually correct it. As I'm talking to you, I've got a cold. And so that always bums me out, especially this kind of cold because it just makes your voice scratchy. Sometimes you get those really good colds where it makes your voice really deep. And that sounds awesome.
00:09:58
Speaker
I was just listening to an interview with, uh, John Mellencamp on, uh, on Sunday morning with, uh, with Jane Pauli. And he said that he has been, she was taking him to tasks for smoking, chain smoking. And he said, you know, I've been doing this for 45, maybe 50 years. And he said, I finally got the voice down to where I sound good. He said, I always wanted to sound like Louie Armstrong. I finally sound like him.
00:10:27
Speaker
And, uh, and he said, you know, I, he thought that the, he thought that the, the difference was that it was, uh, that the people who were concerned about their voice, that it was the
00:10:41
Speaker
smoking and drinking that would do it. Sort of the, the, the tag team of those two things. I was always under the impression that like smoking and drinking together is what got you a good voice, but I think it's his, he maintains is just the smoking. Um, I don't, I don't do either. I don't smoke or drink. Um, I mean, I drink, but not excessively. And, uh, so I, you know, I can't, uh, I can't take.
00:11:06
Speaker
I can't take that, but I do think, but I do understand it as when you listen to that kind of guttural, deep sound that you hear that is such a broadcasting voice or such a great singing voice, that yeah, that is often maintained by a very hard wife. Which hopefully you can, I've been able to avoid, thank God.
00:11:34
Speaker
So when you were coming up as a radio reporter with a specific taste towards the news, what were some early growing pains as you were looking to develop as a reporter for On Air?
Career Insights and Mentorship Learnings
00:11:49
Speaker
Well, okay, so here's the obnoxious part of my story, and I apologize for this. And I teach kids over at the College of St. Rose, which is where I attended,
00:12:03
Speaker
and got my bachelor's degree in communications. You know, I don't know that I had any. I have been very, very fortunate in those growing pains when people talk about the difficulty they had getting on the air, the times where they had of working in radio and getting fired and then going,
00:12:31
Speaker
I never had any of that. I worked as a kid. I was doing both the TV show for school and I was working on and off as much as I could or wanted to or was legal at a radio station. When I moved, I got a job almost instantly in Glens Falls, New York as a sidekick and a weekend news guy.
00:12:57
Speaker
And it was only a couple of months after, I think I got hired in February and by August, the news director went on vacation, they fired her and they gave me the job. So that was while I was going to school. I stayed there for seven years. I learned everything about radio. I left there, I came here and I've been here ever since. I don't know, I don't, as I said, it's a obnoxious part of the story. I think that you,
00:13:27
Speaker
Obviously, the interest that I've had and the things that I've wanted to do, I look at it and I say, well, is it just being incredibly focused, which I would like it to believe, but I also believe that it may just be that I was really narrow-minded and didn't really think of anything else to do. But yeah, I don't have those horrible stories that most people in this profession do of
00:13:53
Speaker
of having 20 jobs in radio or going to show up in the morning and finding out that their station was closed or whatever the case or getting axed because of money or because of a new owner or anything like that. I never had any of that. I had a great boss at my first radio station. I have a great boss now and really the only two people I've ever worked for. So I've been here 24 years, 23 years, whatever it is,
00:14:24
Speaker
And it's a long time and it's, yeah, I don't have those horrible stories about getting it right. Now I can tell you a lot of stories about as far as things that you screw up and the lessons that you learn along the way, but as far as the professional side, it was always pretty, it's a little narrow for me.
00:14:51
Speaker
Yeah, what were some of those lessons you learned along the way, just trade stuff, craft stuff that you honed? Yeah, you learned in college. In college radio, I learned a lot in college radio. I learned that I didn't want to be a DJ. I learned that I didn't have the skills for it. I learned that, first of all, I didn't care. I think you have to care. You have to care about what you're talking about. And I didn't care. There are people who really knew music. There's people who could tell you every instrument. They could tell you every note.
00:15:19
Speaker
They could tell you who was playing. I, I couldn't, you know, I love the Beatles, but I couldn't tell you who was singing at any given time. I, uh, so I, that just wasn't for me. And I learned that pretty early and I didn't have the personality for it. Um, I didn't have that kind of, you know, let's have fun and let's have a party sort of thing. I was a little more serious and I was jokey, but not, not like a morning DJ kind of guy.
00:15:46
Speaker
Um, I also learned that I wasn't, I wasn't good at sales. I wasn't good at going out. I wasn't really good at, at even though I had done it as a kid, I wasn't really all that great at commercial work because I sounded like a news announcer doing commercial work. Those were all lessons and things that I learned along the way. And then when I, when I came here, when I came to WMC, I started the, the, the quick, just a quick diversion, but I, when I worked at, at
00:16:16
Speaker
England's Falls for those seven years. I was a news director. I was a sidekick. I would do news and then I would supply the news for the rest of the day on air. And then I would go cover meetings and be a reporter of sorts and cover meetings and then write those up and do news stories for them for the rest of the day. So those are all the things that I
00:16:43
Speaker
that I learned how to do very early. And I like doing all of that stuff. So when I came here, it was less about being the sidekick. Of course, you don't have that on public radio, but it was less about that and more about hosting and more about talk shows and more about me talking to other people about what they do.
00:17:02
Speaker
One of your great strengths is you're always able to, you shine a great light on the person sitting opposite you, whether that person is physically there or on the phone or something. It's like, how did you develop that sense of sort of advocacy for the person sitting across from you? I learned very early. I had two very good teachers. One was a man by the name of Ron Pache, who taught at Adirondack College.
00:17:31
Speaker
England's falls and was an early, uh, an early advocate. And I worked with him up there. He, uh, he was very instrumental in telling me from the very beginning, look, you're going to come in, you're going to get paid very little money. You, you're going to work holidays. Uh, you're gonna, you're going to suffer a little bit in doing this profession. You probably won't be able to have a family until later and you're going to go through all of this stuff. Um,
00:18:01
Speaker
But it's worth it if you want to do it and you want to, and you want to be a broadcaster. That wasn't a problem for me. I wanted to be a broadcaster. And once I learned that the next rule from him and from, from some other people, including two, uh, two mentors who I'll get to in a second, two mentors who both basically had the same thing for me is it's not about you. It's about the guests. It's not about you, but it's about the person you're talking to, or it's about the audience. So.
00:18:31
Speaker
Either way, it's, it's not about you and that, that even though it's, it could be your show, it can have your name on it. The fact is, is that people are there to hear the guest and they are hoping that you will ask them the questions that they hope they're going to answer, which is different from a tonight show model or from a, uh, from a Colbert model or any of the late night talk shows where.
00:18:57
Speaker
A guest comes down and it's to make that comedian look good. The, the, the guests, whether it's Jim Carrey or Amy Poehler or Meryl Streep is just there to make that host look good. And for the, and for the guests to make the host, you know, shine and have some, have some fun time. But my job really is to, is to present a person and to get to the bottom of them, if you will, and ask questions that
00:19:26
Speaker
hopefully people want answered. And so the two mentors I had, one was Larry King, who at the time that he was my mentor, had little or no television affiliation, was on radio. He had a syndicated radio show. It went out to, I think, 600 stations across the country and it was Larry King overnight. He went from midnight until 5 a.m.
00:19:51
Speaker
And he would, he would basically have a guest for the first hour, have a guest for the second hour, and then the last three hours would be taking calls. And I would listen to that show constantly. A lot of the time I was a kid in school, so I would, I'd listen or I'd tape it and then I'd listen during the day. And it was very instructional, very, um, very helpful in seeing about how you take yourself out of an interview and
00:20:22
Speaker
I remember calling him, I think I was doing a paper in high school and I called him and I asked him, I wrote him a letter and then I called him and then they gave me his inside line and we talked, not on air, but just about the career and stuff. And he gave me some really good advice about that. And it's, you know, it's not about you and, and, and also, but, but also the opposite that when you're doing an interview, it's about the guests and it's not about you, but here's the thing, you'll be there.
00:20:51
Speaker
as the host, I'm here tomorrow. So you are important because they have to like you. And if they don't like you, then well, them's is the breaks and sorry, we'll find somebody else who they do like. So you have to be likable and you have to relate to people and you have to be yourself, but it doesn't have to be all about you. You have to be relatable, you have to be nice, you have to
00:21:16
Speaker
to be the person that you are, and the truer person that you are, Larry King always said this, and the other person, the other mentor that I had was Fred Rogers, Mr. Rogers, who was very instrumental and very clear, more so when I was in early, maybe first two years of college, of telling me, okay, but what you have to do is you have to talk, I mean, he was a master talking to the camera, and he was telling me to talk to the audience, talk to the audience,
00:21:46
Speaker
because he couldn't see his audience, I can't see my audience, and to talk to them as if there is just one individual there and having a presence, and that you can see them and you feel them, and as weird as that sounds, that if you say something and it's not hitting, you kind of know it, even though the person on the other side of the radio is invisible to you. So those were important.
00:22:12
Speaker
Those were important lessons and things that I really took to heart very early on. How did you come to meet Mr. Rogers? In both cases, I called them. Mr. Rogers worked out of Pittsburgh.
00:22:32
Speaker
Public television pretty easy to get to And I wrote a letter and I said this is what I'm doing and I'm I'm working in school and I'm interested in you kind of helping me and and It was just gonna be a one-off. Maybe we could talk for 20 minutes to a half hour I have some questions to you about your craft and then we'll move on and you know, we'll be done and what instead happened is I
00:22:55
Speaker
I did that. I talked to him. I asked him about his craft and we talked about that. And then he wanted to see what I did and then he kept in touch and then he would write me and I would write him. And then we got a friendship going until he, until he passed. So, um, it was, it was a very lovely relationship and one that, uh, one that I was, I was, uh, you know, feel blessed to have had.
00:23:24
Speaker
because he was so incredible in making that connection to people and of course to children. And even though what we do is very different, it really isn't because you're still talking to people and trying to make a connection from one person to another.
00:23:47
Speaker
And listening to you talk about Larry King and Fred Rogers and talking to them about craft and how to adequately sort of get to the bones of what it is you're doing, you know, you hear writers and filmmakers and anyone, they chart out scenes and they will break things down in a lot of ways the way a football coach will, you know, play, pause, play, pause, so forth.
00:24:14
Speaker
What, uh, when it comes to audio, whether it be narrative audio or interviewing audio, like what are, when you X-ray it, what are you looking for and what stands out and what are those beats that you're always trying to hit?
Interview Dynamics and Techniques
00:24:29
Speaker
That's a great question. I think for me, you're trying to hit, you're trying to hit a beat so that when you go into, and I'm not a jazz aficionado, so I use this, I use this analogy.
00:24:42
Speaker
somewhat unwillingly because I don't feel like I'm qualified enough to use it. But I think there is a jazz mentality where when you you're looking for the beat that somebody else is giving you and you're responding to that as the guest. So if you if it's a call and response, if if I'm asking somebody a question, then they're going to give me an answer. Now, that answer could be that could that answer could be very curt.
00:25:10
Speaker
That answer could be very polite. That answer could be very long. That answer could be short. And to get into a rhythm and to quickly understand, as you know, you have sometimes five, 10 minutes with these people. You don't have a long time to build a rapport with them. And you have a very, very quick amount of time to try to hit the stride so that you
00:25:36
Speaker
you work at a rhythm and you can talk to each other in a way that is entertaining to the audience, is informational, hopefully, to the audience. And that both you and the guests are having a good time, obviously, depending on the topic. But I did an interview on Friday with an actress by the name of Esa Paetha Merkerson, who starred in The Law and Order for, I think, 400 episodes.
00:26:06
Speaker
A wonderful actor, she got her start on the Peewee's Playhouse as the male lady. And she just told great stories. You know, she came to play. She came to that interview prepared and she came to play. And I asked her, I could bring up a name and she would tell me a story. And I asked her about Jerry Orbach, who she starred with on One Order. And she told me just great stories. She came to play. And I think it's as much on me as it is on the guest.
00:26:32
Speaker
But if the guest isn't there to play, then you are kind of coaxing them along to say, all right, let's do this. Let's have a conversation where it's something that's meaningful and somebody will get something out of it. I think a lot of times people will say, David Letterman said this one time, and I really took it to heart. I think it's absolutely true, is that the worst thing that can happen is when a guest sits down and says, ask me anything.
00:27:02
Speaker
because they're usually the worst guests because that means they haven't prepared anything. The best guest is the one who says, I have a funny story about going to the doctor yesterday. I have a great story about not getting this book to the publisher on time. And I have a great story about, you know, what happened in church on, on Sunday. And that's a great guest. And, uh, because they're, they're going to answer my questions and then they have stories to tell and they're going to be entertaining.
00:27:28
Speaker
Obviously, his criteria is a little bit different than mine because he is doing an entertainment talk show, but by the same token, it is all about entertainment. It's all about people listening to you in their car or in their homes and being interested enough to keep listening.
00:27:46
Speaker
you want to keep listening obviously and the fact is that when people or when gas even if they bring a story that is not necessarily germane to say the book they wrote or or the movie they directed the if they themselves like you say come to play are interesting and engaging
00:28:06
Speaker
then of course the people become the product, not necessarily the book. So people are going to go, oh, I'm going to go check out their work because that person just seems so engaging. And yeah, so these great little conversations you have, like you said, even if certain things aren't necessarily germane to the work, you can still showcase that person and make their work all the more interesting and accessible in a lot of ways, I guess.
00:28:35
Speaker
It is. And it's, it doesn't have to be, somebody can hijack an interview, somebody can have a great story, but it can be 12 minutes long and you have a 10 minute segment. So that's not going to work. So it's your job to, to corral them and to gently prod them into either shortening it or to moving on. And that's, that's a constant. That's a constant that you have to do of, of playing that.
00:29:02
Speaker
But back to what we were talking about before, as far as the rhythm and the beat, it's once you realize that you have that going with that person and that you have a rapport and there is that call and response, it can be pretty delightful. And I think if you listen, when I listen back to the interviews that I do, you can tell the ones where they're three minute chill period that I call it, where you're sizing each other up, you're getting to know each other, and then suddenly,
00:29:30
Speaker
If you hear me laughing and you hear me genuinely laughing in response, that means that I've relaxed to the point of where I am completely comfortable in that person's company and I feel that they are completely comfortable in my company and we can have a really fun time.
00:29:50
Speaker
Yeah, that is getting to that point where both of you are laughing is so critical. For me, a lot of times, even though you and I have known each other for a few years and met face-to-face, even calling you, I was like, this is Joe and I love listening to you. I think you're the best interviewer around.
00:30:15
Speaker
And I know you and I was nervous going into this. And then it's like you settle in and you have that rhythm. And how do you get to that point where you are relaxed and you can lean back in your chair and just listen and have that kind of conversation? Do you still experience some nerves in that performance anxiety?
00:30:40
Speaker
So the two ways to answer the question, and I think the short answer is no, not really. However, I think, all right, maybe there's three ways of answering. There's three ways of answering this question. I think one of them is that because you talk about the act of doing your job is always something that you have to be on guard about. So I don't know exactly that I would call that nerves, but I have to be aware and I have to be on my toes.
00:31:10
Speaker
So even if we're having a conversation and it's casual and it's fun, I have to be listening and I have to be, I have to be watching the clock to make sure we're not going over. I have to make sure that I'm getting in all the information that I want to get in. I may be looking up notes. I may be looking at something that I want to ask for the next question, but I also have to listen and I have to be entertained. So all of that is works. That's, that's something that you have to do to keep, to keep yourself in the conversation. So,
00:31:39
Speaker
Even though I may be sitting back and relaxing, your mind is still racing as to what to do next. And I don't know that that ever really ends because you're working. But that's one thing. As far as the actual interview, the fact that I would be interviewing, say, I don't know, name someone, Matt Damon tomorrow. I won't get nervous on that. What I do get nervous over is
00:32:05
Speaker
Will Willie show up? Will everything go? Will the microphone work? Will the studio be there? Will this happen? Once I'm in the chair and the guest is in the chair and I see that equipment is working and engineers aren't pulling their hair out, I'm fine. At that point, I'm fine. I am in my element. And you hear comedians, you hear singers, you hear musicians talk about
00:32:34
Speaker
that the happiest moment of their day is when they're on that stage. And I think that's the same for broadcasters. When you're actually there and you're doing it, well, that's gold. That's great. And even if it's not going well, that's still pretty good. It's still pretty good.
00:32:51
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I find that the minute I start talking to these people, whether it's like, you know, you or Roy Peter Clark, or Andre debuts, like these people that I really hold up on high pedestals, once I once I get into the conversation, and it's just a couple people talking shop,
00:33:07
Speaker
It does those nerves come down and then you realize you're just you know You're just sitting there talking into a mic and just having having a good time and having a good You know a good back and forth you hope that's entertaining and informative again those nerves do they well for me they finally do settle down when you're in the thing doing the thing that you really love doing I I have found myself over the last couple of years. We do a lot of stage
00:33:32
Speaker
Things I do a couple of months now where we'll record the book show on stage in front of an audience and I I really do forget sometimes that the audience is there I can block them out pretty easy because I am there's a comfort level where you're in a big cushy chair and you're and you're sitting there talking to John Grisha and You think yourself? Wow, this is this is pretty cool. This doesn't get better than that and There's not much better than that and and
00:34:03
Speaker
So that is that's completely enjoyable to me. And that doesn't get the only time the nerves will come in as if if it's not going well, if something is something goes wrong, the guest isn't going to play. And you you know, you get the there's a sense of flop sweat, where you get nervous as to what you're going to do next, and you don't know where to go. And that can be really
00:34:33
Speaker
frightening but thankfully those times live those times have been minimal but on the air even they have been they have been far and few between and when you're and when you're on the radio and not in front of an audience even though if you're alive and something is starting to go down the drain you can simply make a call and say all right we're gonna end this and we're gonna go to the next the next thing because this isn't working out and
00:35:01
Speaker
So how do you go about structuring an interview and while also leaving time for some of that, that, that jazz improvisation that you were talking about? Yeah, it's probably the hardest thing to, I think, teach or to discuss because it really does become somewhat innate. You, you know, what you as an interviewer want to ask and you say,
00:35:26
Speaker
I do a lot of research for all of my interviews and I do a lot of things. So you just cram your head with facts. And if you have too much, then it just comes out on a torrent. But if you let it marinate for a little while, the only things that come out are the things that you really care about. And I think then at that point, there's a natural arc and it becomes basically what any storyteller tries to do is, yes, you want to tell the story, but how are you going to tell it? Are you going to start?
00:35:54
Speaker
Are you going to start with what happened in 1980 first and then go back to 1975? Were you going to talk with 75 and go straight through and go in a chronological order? Or are we going to start with the thing that made you famous? And I think there's a bunch of different ways of doing it. And sometimes you don't even know it as you're going in. I'll ask a very simple question, like what brought you to this particular project?
00:36:18
Speaker
And just sort of see what rises to the top and then I'll grab onto something and go from there. And that is, but I know, I always know what I want to get to. And I don't use a lot of notes. I don't, um, I don't really use any notes. I have a script that gives me my beginning and my end.
00:36:42
Speaker
I have the information in my head. I do have a pen and a piece of paper, and if I think of something that I'm worried I'm going to lose, I'll write it down. But I made a conscious effort, I would say about 15 years ago, that I wasn't going to write questions or notes down anymore because I was too concerned about being beholden to them. And I wasn't listening the way that I should.
00:37:11
Speaker
And what I realized is that if you, so if you go to a meeting or you go to a movie and you see that movie and you come back, you have the memory of that movie. And when you tell your friends what that movie was about, you do the concise version and you hopefully tell them in an entertaining manner of what happened in the film of what it's about, what you liked it, what you didn't like it. And I realized that you could do the same thing with your research.
00:37:42
Speaker
that you can cram it in there and find out all these interesting things. And then when it comes back to like telling your spouse, okay, what do you wanna ask this person? Well, here are the things that I'm interested in and do five or six minutes and just say, okay, these are the things. And then it's sort of what rises to the top. And then if the person says something that had nothing to do with what you were thinking about, but you remember it
00:38:08
Speaker
it brings up something that you had read that is very obscure, then you can grab that and say, oh, I remember that was in the fifth chapter of that book when the guy died when he fell over the format.
Interview Formats: Short vs Long
00:38:23
Speaker
And then suddenly you're in something else. And that's rather delightful, but you can always get back to where you wanted to be by just asking another question.
00:38:36
Speaker
What do you find more challenging slash, and this could even be delightful as well, in doing that short interview that you might only have five or six minutes? I'm thinking you did a great one with Tracy Kidder for Full Truck of Money, which is like four and a half minutes long, and it was packed in a good way. It was packed, and then you have your book show every week, which is a neighborhood of 25 minutes. So what are the challenges to both, and which do you prefer?
00:39:05
Speaker
I like both. It's interesting you brought up the Tracy Kidder interview because that was one of the rare times where I did, he was doing, we did a book show and we did a full 25 minute interview, half hour interview for the book show. And then at the end, he had an event that he wanted that that book show was probably not going to be air on the nationally for a couple of weeks. And he had a local event that he wanted to promote.
00:39:34
Speaker
So what we did is we just went back and we recorded another segment. So I think the reason that it probably came off as good as it did is because we had just done one, we had just done a 25 minute pre-interview. And then I said, all right, now we're gonna condense all of that into four minutes. And that's sort of what we did. So that was the story of that interview. Most times, the short interviews, look, there's people that they deserve to be short.
00:40:01
Speaker
They don't need to be long. That's one of the things I love about public radio is that we talk about this in our meetings all the time when young reporters or new reporters come in and they'll say, well, how long does it need to be? And I said, well, you tell the story and you tell me how long it needs to be. But here's a clue. It probably doesn't need to be that long.
00:40:23
Speaker
There are things where if an interview can go and that's the luxury I have. If I sit down and I have an author and a book and I have time with them, I'll usually book 20 minutes to a half hour with them. But if I get what I need in 10 minutes or at 13, because I need 10 minute and 13 minute interviews, then I'll do that and I'll know when it's done. And I know pretty early of whether if it can sustain longer than that,
00:40:49
Speaker
And if it can, and I feel, okay, I'm going to get the information that I can in, in 10 and 15 minutes, then we'll, we'll call it then. If not, and I can go longer than I need segments on our show that are 20, 22 minutes too. So I can make those longer and I can go longer with that person. Sometimes it's a no brainer. You get somebody like Tracy Kidder, or you get somebody like.
00:41:14
Speaker
You know, we had Drew Barrymore on the other day. Well, they're going to talk and they're going to be really great and they're very good at this. And so you want them for as long as you can get them because you know they're going to be very good. And there's other times where if I'm doing an interview with somebody about their theater festival in North Adams, Massachusetts,
00:41:36
Speaker
then, yeah, that doesn't have to be very long. Right. Do you feel there's a sweet spot in length for interviews? You know, these days you see, you know, podcasts upwards, I would probably say the average interview podcast is somewhere in the neighborhood of an hour, sometimes longer if you're dealing with, like, people like Marin and those folks, and sometimes 45 minutes to 50 to 60, like, long form.
00:42:01
Speaker
Do you find in your own taste that those lengths are too long or too short or depends entirely on the momentum of each guest? I think it depends entirely on the guest and your rapport with them. I've listened to
00:42:22
Speaker
One of my assignments I have for my students is to do a podcast and I've listened to ones that were 45 minutes long that seemed like they were eight and a half hours. And yet I've listened to, and I feel the same way with television too, that, you know, or I can listen to one that a student has done that's 40 minutes long and I look down and I'm shocked that it's 40 minutes long because it seemed like it was four. So I don't know, I don't know that,
00:42:51
Speaker
anything, I think it's right for what it is. It's good for what it is. And this goes back to, I think that the story arc that you have in your mind as an interviewer, the beginning, the middle, and an end, and what you want to accomplish and what you want to talk about, once you've satisfied that, if that takes 10 minutes, that takes 10 minutes. If that takes 20 minutes, that takes 20 minutes. If that takes an hour, that takes an hour.
00:43:20
Speaker
I'm given the luxury in this job of I have the three hour show so I can pretty much, I can make that fit when whatever maybe comes down the pike. I've done to my producer Chagrin, you get on the air with somebody.
00:43:40
Speaker
I was interviewing Andrew Wyeth, the painter, his granddaughter the other day, and she got on the air, and she was just, she was on the phone, but she was a pip. I mean, she was just full of it, and there was no way that was gonna be a short segment. It had to go long. I knew that three minutes into it, and I just, I texted the producer, and I said, all right, we're gonna go, we're gonna skip the next segment, and we're gonna go long, because this is good. This is solid, and this is more solid than what we're gonna follow it up with,
00:44:10
Speaker
Uh, and it's better to end with this and then just run that at another time. So even though you plan it and you look at it, there's a lot of fly by the seat of your pants too, which is, uh, which I find exciting. That's live radio, but also it allows you, I think it helps with the listener because if, if it were, if it were the opposite and it sucked.
00:44:35
Speaker
then it would be a six or seven minute interview. Right, no huddle offense. Right, and then we would have went on to something else.
00:44:43
Speaker
So how can someone become a better interviewer, which is to say a better asker of questions.
Curiosity in Interviews: Key to Engagement
00:44:50
Speaker
So maybe that they can turn that a 45 minute interview and make it feel like 15 or you know what I mean? So like maybe, well, what are some skills that you help coach, coach up and coming reporters, interviewers or whatever to maybe to make them better at the craft and make make these things that are long seem shorter.
00:45:09
Speaker
Well, listening is key. I mean, obviously listening. I don't, here's the thing. The thing that I find with students and I love the students. I've often said that I never thought I would find anything in my life that would equal what I'm doing on the radio as giving me a satisfaction.
00:45:32
Speaker
I started teaching about 10 years ago, and I never thought I would enjoy anything as much as radio, but I do teaching. I mean, I would never give up radio to teach, but I love teaching. I really do. I love it.
00:45:45
Speaker
The students are great. If you feel horrible about the world, spend time with young people. They'll make you feel much, much better. I'm turning 50 this year. I thought it would just make me feel incredibly old. It does the exact opposite. It makes you feel younger. The kids are great. They're funny. They're very passionate. They have a lot. They care a lot about what's going on in the world.
00:46:12
Speaker
I think that the one thing that I have to work with them on sometimes is that you sometimes you do things you just don't wanna do. And no matter what that is when you're on the radio and you're a broadcaster, you know, you at least have to, you have to be you and you have to be true to yourself. But you also, there's a little acting to this. There's a little performance to this. And sometimes you just, even if you don't, you have to pretend like you actually give a shit.
00:46:42
Speaker
You know, that you just, you actually care. And what I find sometimes is people say, well, I don't, you know, you wanted me to interview the president of the college and I don't care about, what do I care about? Well, go find something that you care about. Find something about this person that you care about. And I always say, look, I don't have kids. I don't have children. But I can have, but I'm fascinated with talking to people. If I see a book comes across my desk,
00:47:10
Speaker
and it's about the first five years, I'm interested in it because I wanna know about that and I wanna know of what it's like to be a pediatrician and what it is like to work in that. And I have questions about that subject because I have genuine curiosity in it. So I think you have to have an innate curiosity. And if you don't, and you are the type of person who just doesn't care about things and other people, which by the way, when I say that seems horrible, it makes me sound like
00:47:40
Speaker
I'm saying that the person is shallow. It doesn't mean that. Not that everyone is wired that way, but some people are just incapable of not either A, talking about themselves, or B, asking something of somebody else and have genuine interest in what they're going to say about it.
00:48:01
Speaker
So that's some of the things that we explore in the class and you can make that up you're either interested in it or you're not and The best way to start of course is to talk to people who have like interest so if you're a Yankees fan Then talk to somebody about the Yankees and that's a great way to start because you know you're gonna be on a place where you can talk about the Yankees and
00:48:22
Speaker
But then by the end of the semester and the end of the time, I also want you to talk, I want you to talk hockey and I want you to talk Red Sox and I want you to talk Milwaukee Brewers with as much gusto and interest as you talked about the Yankees. And because it doesn't have to be about the sport, doesn't have to be about the game. It has to be about your interest and, and the questions that you have and the information that you're getting from that guest. So let me, curiosity is key that, and you can't,
00:48:51
Speaker
Again, you can't make that up. And that whole thing is, I don't know how you teach that. I don't know how you teach people to be curious, but you go up, you either do or you do not care about somebody. And I think there are people who will go down, I think this has happened to a lot of people. You're sitting on a bus, you're sitting on a train, you're sitting on a plane, and you see two people in front of you.
00:49:18
Speaker
And you think, okay, what is the dynamic of these two people? Are they, are they married? Are they not married? Are they been dating? If so, how long have they been dating? Now you will never know the answer to this question, but it's to be able to do the, the acrobatics in your head to sort of think and care enough of what is up with these people. He's wearing a ring. She's not.
00:49:44
Speaker
Uh, her luggage tags say Florida has same Maryland. Are they just two travelers, but they seem to be closer. Those are the kinds of things that you like, you notice when you're talking to somebody. So if I am talking to, if I'm talking to, uh, an athlete and I'll say halfway through, I'll notice that he has a, um, uh, horrible bruise on his right arm.
00:50:11
Speaker
And I'll, I'll just in the middle of the interview, we could be talking about anything about a contract negotiation and I'll say, Oh my God, what happened to your arm? Now that could be an interesting story or it could be a really dumb story, but, and then you move out of it really quick. But if it's a good story, then you stick with it and you say, Oh, well that's, so how did you get that? Well, why, what were you doing? Why were you on a motorcycle? Why were you, so you have a contract that tells you not to be on a motorcycle. So why the hell were you on a motorcycle?
00:50:38
Speaker
Those are all things that, that I think come into it, but you have to care. You have to be interested in what is around you and notice things and, and see, and see, and, and this gets back to the listening too. If you hear a person drop little hints or drop little, uh, say a word several times, uh, I think say to them, you know, I, I've noticed that you use the word, uh, casual and, and I'm just, how do you mean casual in this sense?
00:51:07
Speaker
And then that opens them up a little bit so that they can tell you. And I think they're almost, they're honored a little bit that you noticed and you're listening to them. And at that point they give you a little bit more and then you go a little bit further than you would have otherwise.
00:51:23
Speaker
Yeah, it sounds so simple, but it really is as simple as taking an interest in someone else's life and unpacking that a little bit, and then, well, listen to them. And you'd be surprised what comes out, right? It's really hard. When I first started here at AMC and we started this show at Roundtable,
00:51:46
Speaker
I had a wonderful partner for a number of years and she left, went to do television, and then we started to try to find Joe another partner. And it was miserable. It was just horrible because you have to find somebody that you have chemistry with. You can't make that up. You either have chemistry with the person or you don't. And then the other thing too is you had to find somebody that actually cared about what the other person was saying.
00:52:13
Speaker
And that to me was the hardest thing of finding somebody. Well, eventually we never did find anybody. We tried a couple, it didn't work out. They all have wonderful careers now and I do the show by myself. And if maybe someday someone will walk into that studio and we'll take an instant liking to each other and we'll be able to do something together. But it's really, it's interesting.
00:52:41
Speaker
It's just finding somebody who actually cares and who has an interest in other people and has an interest in curiosity and what's going on. And that's the same thing with reporting. I mean, the best reporters that we have in our newsroom are the reporters who come in and say, you know, it's coming into work today. And I saw that the corner of central and third is there's a two
00:53:08
Speaker
there's two cranes and wrecking crews there, I wonder what's going on. Could be a great story, could be nothing, but they care enough to ask the question.
Memorable Moments and Personal Interests
00:53:18
Speaker
And I know David Letterman is a bit of a hero of yours in terms of broadcasting. Gotcha. Yeah, and when he presented you with that Late Show jacket on the air a couple years ago now, I guess, take us through that experience, take us through that moment and what that meant to you at that time.
00:53:38
Speaker
Well, I'm, I'm just very, uh, I'm very proud of myself, Brendan, that I didn't cry. Um, it was, uh, it was, it was really, I mean, I think in post, it was much more emotional than it probably came off at that moment. Um, but it is, uh, it was, you know, when the way it happened.
00:54:02
Speaker
and for people who didn't see it it doesn't really matter, but What happened what happened was that? It was the I think the fifth to the last show that he did it was the it was one week before he went off the air and I was in the studio audience and At the beginning of the show he asked if anyone has a question I think he does this for about two or three minutes and I asked him a question and I
00:54:31
Speaker
And it turned out to be the question that I had was just, you know, is, is there anything, cause somebody had just asked him from something for, uh, prior to my question, somebody had asked him if he could have something from the set. And he said, no. And I gave him a pencil, I think. And, um, and then he pointed to me and he said, nice shirt. And I had this, I had this kind of a patchwork shirt on and I said, thank you. And, uh, I said, where do you live? I said, Albany.
00:55:01
Speaker
And he said, what can I do for you? And I said, well, you know, I don't want anything. I said, I'm willing to pay for like a jacket, but I want like a weight show jacket that all these people are wearing, but I don't know where I can get one on my size. I'm a big guy. I don't know where I can find one. And, uh, and, and he said, well, you know, maybe, um, we give those to people. And he made some joke and he just sort of pushed it off and, uh, it was funny and it was amusing. And that was the end of it. That was not on the air then.
00:55:31
Speaker
When we got on the air and he started the show, there was, he did the monologue, he went to the desk and they went to a break. And when they came back, I suddenly saw the camera starting to move toward me and I saw the producer stand move toward me and the monitors came down and everything became around me. And then I saw one of the writers with a bag
00:56:01
Speaker
And I saw that it was a jacket and I said, Oh, I guess I'm going to be on television. And, um, there, that just was something they did on the fly and they did. And he told this story and he made it very funny. And, uh, the, the thing that made me the happiest was as he was putting the jacket around my shoulders, I turned to him and I said, it's a great honor. And I thank you for everything that you've ever done for me. And I just got to say that. And, uh,
00:56:31
Speaker
It was fun. I got to get to be a little hammy. I tried the jacket on. They put the glimmering special effects on it. I got to do what Dave does with his jacket of make your tie wiggle when you play with your jacket. And it was fun. It was a perfect way to end. And I loved it. It was a lovely, lovely, lovely moment.
00:56:58
Speaker
Um, it, uh, yeah, but, oh, I'm, I'm forgetting a key part of the story. A key part of the story is that the reason I, I, you know, it wasn't any press, uh, connections or anything that got me in the room that day. It was just me being a fan and trying like hell to get tickets. And I got tickets and, but when I went to the, they have an audience coordinator. And when you go in, Letterman had a, did not have a, an applause sign like most shows where they tell you when to applaud what he would do is he would put.
00:57:29
Speaker
People in front who are genuine, real, longtime fans, because a lot of those shows get people from out of town who are just want to see a show and maybe never watch Letterman. But he would get the real fans and they would have these fan coordinators come out when audience coordinators would come. And when you gave them their ticket, they'd start asking you questions and they would kind of really figure out who the true fans were. And they'd put them in front.
00:57:57
Speaker
because then you would be the first person that would laugh and then that laugh would be contagious going backwards, cueing the other people that this was funny and to move on. That was the way he did his show. You're the applause sign. You're basically the applause sign because you're genuinely reacting to the comedy. And so they called us audience ambassadors. But the woman brought maybe, I don't know, 20 of us back
00:58:25
Speaker
and started asking us questions. And this woman who was very sweet, I was sitting on a folding chair, she was on a stool and was asking me questions. And I started getting really emotional. She started, well, how long have you watched the show? I've watched the show since 1982. How long have you?
00:58:41
Speaker
You know, I watched the morning show. I used to skip school so I could watch a show. What does it mean to you? And all that stuff. And as I started talking, and then she said, well, what will you miss about the show? And then I just, I did. I got really emotional. And now whether that had anything to do with him picking me, I have no idea. Whether that was part of the tip off, I don't know. I really don't.
00:59:08
Speaker
Um, all I know is that from the, from the time that that happened to the time I left the studio, everyone in that room, everyone around, um, the writers, the producers, the segment producers, the camera operators, the, um, the staff were just so incredibly sweet, just amazingly sweet.
00:59:31
Speaker
Um, and, uh, and I just, I just thought, well, that's the greatest thing in the world. It's a, it was really very, very lovely. And, and I, um, you know, since that time I've seen, I've seen, I've gotten to see Dave, uh, two or three times and, uh, at different events, I'm glad he's doing more and more and I've gotten to see him do stuff. And, uh, it's like, okay, well, you never, you can never really top that. And I don't really need to try.
01:00:03
Speaker
I don't need anything more than that. I'm fine. I could just sit back and enjoy and watch the show and have fun.
01:00:10
Speaker
Very nice. And just a few more questions before I let you get out of here, Joe. You're being really gracious with your time, and I deeply appreciate it. I just have a few more. They're kind of like rapid-fire questions. They don't have to require a rapid-fire answer, but I figure I want to just kind of get your take on a couple things. In terms of how you get ready for work and the characteristics of your research, like how do you
01:00:37
Speaker
What would you say your your morning routine is as you're looking to sort of process the day ahead? Like when do you wake up? You know get to the office and get yourself into the right sort of game face game mindset as you as you go to work I think there's two types of people in the world Brendan I think there's people who take a shower at night before they go to work and the people who take a shower in the morning before they go to work and I think the same is true for
01:01:05
Speaker
And, and both can argue viciously as to which is the better one. Um, I, uh, so I think it's the same thing with the research. I tend to do it the night before. So I come in late. Uh, I don't, sometimes I don't hit the door of the building until five or 10 minutes before I go on the air, but because everything else has been done the night before or that morning. Um, I'll do it that morning or I'll do.
01:01:33
Speaker
meaning that if a story breaks overnight and we hear something, then I'm working on it, obviously, and we're on it. But if nothing really has changed from the time that we, quote unquote, put the show to bed, then, for example, I wrote Friday's script this afternoon. So Friday's show is written. And what does that mean? That means that I've gone over the segments, that means I've gone over the show notes, that means that I've
01:02:02
Speaker
I have done most of my research in writing that script. So from now until Friday, I have all that time to forget it. And to get ready for Monday show and Tuesday show and all of that, but also, but it's in my head so that Thursday night I can look through it and just familiarize myself real quick. Go through some email or go through some websites, remind myself of some things that I wanted to talk about
01:02:32
Speaker
And then I'm ready to go. I'm pretty much ready to go. And because it's broadcast and it's radio, things change very quickly. I guess we had two cancellations, one last night, one this morning.
01:02:52
Speaker
We just do something else. We put a tape segment in or we move a segment that was going to be taped to going live and we just move things around and we're ready for that stuff. That stuff happens every day, so you just do it.
01:03:09
Speaker
So, um, I find I work my best. If I come in, uh, I usually, I haven't, I have a long commute. So I usually, I usually get up about a five 30, six o'clock. Um, I'm out the door before seven and try to be here, you know, eight, eight 15. And, uh, I go with my wife, we, we carpool. So I have to drop her off.
01:03:34
Speaker
Um, sometimes her schedule brings her in a little bit earlier, a little bit later. So I deal with that. Um, and, uh, and then we're here, we're here until five, six o'clock and, uh, or whatever until you're done doing what you have to do. And a lot of times you'll have a live event or you'll have a special broadcast or you'll have something else that you have to get ready for. I mean, the beauty of my job is a lot of it I can do sitting in my chair at home.
01:04:05
Speaker
You know, you read the books, you write the script, you do all that stuff. It doesn't have to be chained to a desk. Yeah, and as anyone who knows you knows that you're a voracious reader, and I wonder how do you incorporate some writing into your day, given all the stuff that you're able to consume? Well, the writing usually comes...
01:04:34
Speaker
I'm having an existential crisis right now because I've learned that, uh, I don't like, I don't like kindles and I don't like, um, tablet books. I like books. My problem is, is that I don't like to mark them and I don't like to make any marks in them because I'm, I don't know. I have OCD. I don't know what I have, but I don't like to make any marks on them. I think that's the librarian son in me. And, uh,
01:05:04
Speaker
So what generally happens is I have both. I have a book and I have a copy on my tablet. So I have a hard copy and then I have the digital copy. On the digital copy, when I'm reading, I'm reading the hardcover. And when I come up to something that if it's fiction, if it's a sentence, I think that sings or that I love or that I think is very
01:05:34
Speaker
emblematic of the of the richness of the writing I will highlight it with my finger and then I can just go back and it's so easy to find it's it's really it's great that's fantastic and then that way if I have that with me during the interview I can just press the button and all those notes come up and I see all those notes and they're right in front of me and that's that's great
01:05:58
Speaker
And, but when it comes to actually reading the book, I read and, and, um, and if I, if I have notes and things, if I'm writing while I'm reading, I will just, they usually send your press release and I'll just, I'll jot a little note down that'll just say like page 73, Wyatt Earp. And then that will remind me that I have a question about Wyatt Earp. And hopefully when I read it again on page 73, it'll remind me of what I was going to ask. Um,
01:06:26
Speaker
Yeah. What are what are some books that you find yourself returning to again and again over the years? Well, again, so that's the thing. You find yourself being a writer, you find yourself being a reader for yourself, a personal reader and a professional reader. So right now, I just got finished. We we taped we taped seven book shows in five days.
01:06:50
Speaker
And I was reading nonstop for work. And now I have about a three week reprieve. Um, now I'm talking about for the book show. I'm not talking about for the day to day show, which is kind of a different preparation because it doesn't have to be as intense because the interview isn't as long, but, um, still intense, but it's, it's less so. Uh, and, uh, so I'm reading for fun right now and that's, that is.
01:07:16
Speaker
That's great. And you can read the books that you, you know, the author that you will not get or from the dead person who you obviously won't get. Uh, but I, I love, I love mysteries. I'm a great, uh, Robert B. Parker. It was my favorite author for a long, long time. I still love, uh, he passed away. Uh, there's somebody writing under his name now, but it's not very good. Um, I, I read a lot of Carl Hyerson. I love Carl Hyerson's work, both fiction and nonfiction. I think it's
01:07:46
Speaker
Terrific and doesn't get much better than that. I love reading books that just surprise me and that are just beautiful. And sometimes it was overlap, meaning that the reason I'm having him on the show is because I love that person. So I just read the new Arundhati Roy book and that is amazing and just beautiful writing and simply magnificent.
01:08:08
Speaker
And so those are fun. And yeah, I'm a Charles Dickens fan. I read a lot of Dickens. I do love Shakespeare. I love plays. I love to read plays. I read a lot of plays. New, old, I collect plays. I love that. So they're also short. I take like two hours to read. That's pretty great.
01:08:36
Speaker
And so, yeah, I and here again, I think that is because there is a neglecting nature to the show. There's an eclectic nature to my reading. And if you were to look at my bookshelf, you would probably, you know, think you have somewhat split personalities. But it's it's there's a lot of different stuff there, but I I do.
01:09:01
Speaker
I enjoy it. I think we're in a really good time. I think we're in good shape. There's some very good young writers coming up who are, uh, are terrific and both fiction and nonfiction and that there's good stuff out there and really fun on all, on all fronts, um, commercial fiction, literary fiction, some really good stuff. And we still have the.
01:09:27
Speaker
The master is like Cormac McCarthy and Ann Taylor. Those are two people that I would give my teeth to interview who I hopefully will one day get on the show, but I think they're both reclusive. So probably won't, but, um, but I'll read everything that they put out because it's just magnificent.
01:09:44
Speaker
And you've been in the capital region doing this for a number of decades now.
Joe's Continued Passion for Radio
01:09:53
Speaker
175 years, yes. What continues to excite you about getting in front of that microphone and putting the headphones on? Well, it never stops because you're on the air. And you're a ham at heart.
01:10:08
Speaker
And you have a story to tell and you want to share it with people and it's fun. And if it's, and if it's not fun, then you don't do it anymore. Um, I, I, you know, if somebody comes in and says, Oh, uh, Jerry can't do a show tonight. Um, and, and we need somebody to fill in. Well.
01:10:29
Speaker
Call me up. I mean, I, I'm there, you know, and I love it. I, it's good. That's fun. Um, that's, that's a day at the races. That's a, that's a good day. That's a very, very good day and a good hour, a good time to be, uh, comfortable. I like it. And, um, I assume when your energy stops and you don't enjoy it anymore, um, then it doesn't then.
01:10:57
Speaker
It wouldn't be as much fun. Jack Parr, the second host of the Tonight Show, once said that he stopped doing his show because he said everything he had to say twice. And I think about that a lot. And sometimes when I'm doing the 19th theater festival interview of the summer, I think to myself, OK, well, there's once. There's once, you know, can I
01:11:26
Speaker
Do I want to do another one and chance it to get to the point where I've said everything I have to say twice, but I, but so far you find things and, and, um, and I think the key, and I really do, I think this is the key to it. Obviously young, young people can't do this. They're not afforded this. Uh, so this is a difficult thing to talk about in class, but as you get older and you are, you are, um,
01:11:54
Speaker
You're given freedom. You don't do anything you don't want to do. If it's going to suck and you and you're dreading it, then don't do it. So if if I see something that comes across my desk and I'm like, oh, God, well, I mean, then don't do it. And meanwhile, if you see something across your desk, go, oh, wow, this is really cool. Well, then do it. That's great. Do that stuff. Because otherwise, I mean, there's always things you
01:12:21
Speaker
have to do but for the most part but you also at this point I know who to get and the people to talk to and the people to stay away from and people who make really good interviews and people who don't and people who will call you back and the people who won't and so that's that's all you know that's what three decades buys you is is the experience to sort of know who to call and how to get what you want
01:12:43
Speaker
Well, Joe, you're the best. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. This is a thrill for me to get to catch up and speak with you about your craft. So just thank you so much for doing this. It was a lot of fun for me. Well, I really appreciate you caring. I really appreciate you thinking of me. I always have admired your work and what you've done. So thank you very much. And it's an honor to be asked. And it's an honor to be asked intelligent questions about what you do.
01:13:11
Speaker
you know it's like uh... trying to explain comedy of people say that that's impossible to do it which i agree with and i think sometimes getting into the weeds about uh... interviewing is uh... sometimes equal to that but uh... you made it very uh... painless way thank you very much well the play the pleasure is online in every interview i hear with you as a master clinic and how to do it so it's uh... thank you for your work and i will be in touch down the road for sure thank you sir look forward to it you got it take care joe
01:13:42
Speaker
To quote Ken Bania from Seinfeld, that was, the best Jerry, the best. Thanks to Joe Donahue for coming on the show. This episode was produced and hosted by me, Brendan O'Mara. And for you, kind listener.
01:14:00
Speaker
Please leave a review wherever you get your podcasts. You can find the Creative Nonfiction Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Google Play Music, and Stitcher. Reviews are gold. And I'll just come out and say it. I love you. That's not weird at all. So I got down on my hands and knees and I asked my wife if she would please subscribe to the podcast. We're gonna end this and we're gonna go to the next
01:14:28
Speaker
the next thing because this isn't working out. I'll see you right here next week for another episode of the Creative Nonfiction Podcast. Thanks for listening.