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"I Just Don't Know What He Does" ACN Pod 105
63 Plays2 years ago
Hannah, Jon & Tom review Norwich's last 2 games (Stoke, QPR) and weigh up if we've learned much about Dean Smith's team that we didn't already know. Some guarantees are given for the upcoming Rotherham game, eventually.
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Transcript
Introduction: Hosts and Podcast Theme
00:00:21
Speaker
Welcome to the Long Come Norwich podcast. This is the 15th attempt to start this podcast, so I'm not going to say anything other than here's me, John and Hannah talking about football.
Match Analysis: Norwich vs QPR Performance
00:00:32
Speaker
Hannah, we entertained QPR last night, or did we?
00:00:36
Speaker
Yeah, I think we did. I think it was definitely an improvement. I mean, so my scale, I didn't get to watch the estate game. I was at work, but I did see the Burney game. And so I think that was a pretty low bar to compare it to. And it wouldn't have taken much to be better than that. So I don't think I'm saying much to say that it was better than that game.
00:01:05
Speaker
I was, you know what, I was pleasantly surprised. I'm slightly confused this morning because I did have a quick look on Twitter to see sort of the general sort of response to it and the general vibe on there, which perhaps was a mistake. And I was surprised by how much, I don't know, I shouldn't be surprised by this, should I, but how negative it was. And I saw, you know, people sort of saying, yeah, actually, I thought we were right.
00:01:35
Speaker
uh you know again it was it was patchy i think everyone can can see that that we are struggling to string together sustained um you know coherent sort of performances but i'd say the first kind of half an hour it was pretty decent last maybe 10 minutes or so pretty decent and keep you are a good team you know you're not going to have 90 minutes of you know beautiful dominance
00:02:01
Speaker
aggressive, attacking, lovely football against the fellow promotion, my watch is not really gonna happen.
Team Performance: Inconsistencies and Expectations
00:02:10
Speaker
So yeah, I was pleasantly surprised. I thought it was improvement. I guess the question is, you know, was it, it still didn't live up to the expectations that a lot of people have for this team. And I think that that is kind of the, the crunch issue at the moment is that
00:02:30
Speaker
there seems to be a bit of a question mark over what those expectations are. And is it being realistic to just sort of accept that maybe we're not automatic permission contenders anymore? Or is that a kind of lowering of standards that is emblematic of this kind of rock that is starting to set in at the club? I don't know.
00:02:53
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's an interesting point that expectations are maybe misaligned in some quarters. I also took a look to see what the overall reaction was. And I thought the people who are Smith out were maybe harsher than I certainly was. And the people who are very defensive of the current regime, coaching wise,
00:03:19
Speaker
were probably likewise a bit too rosy. I see it somewhere in the middle. It was far better in the first 15 to 20 minutes last night than we have seen pretty much other than the Preston game all season. I'd say that's probably our second best half of football this season.
00:03:37
Speaker
did that the worry and i did see this well-articulated last night on the old socials of media is that we it was just another game actually when you look at it over ninety minutes it was another game where. We had all one good spell and it wasn't we have to pop up in the second half.
00:03:56
Speaker
But my goodness me, we went back to very slow passes across the back four that didn't progress anywhere and that back four got deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper and QPR pushed us more and more and more until eventually it was gun hitting it long.
00:04:11
Speaker
And I actually think that the expectations are right to be high based on the little kind of explosions of good play that we did have both last night and throughout the season. That the fact that we were able to score a couple of really nice goals against Stoke, which we'll come to in a second,
00:04:32
Speaker
and the fact that we were in the first 10 to 15 minutes last night against QPR playing some one-touch football and being brave and playing progressive passes and not just taking the immediately safe option of immediately turning back towards our own goal and passing it across.
Player Highlights: Cantwell and Sarra
00:04:52
Speaker
I am still of the opinion that this is an underperforming squad, but I saw more for the coaching team to build on last night against QPR than I did against Stoke. What say you, punty punty punty, delicious.
00:05:07
Speaker
I mean, it's certainly better than the Stoke performance. There's no getting away from that. I would actually, in terms of a performance, I've also looked on the social media and I thought there was quite a lot of negativity towards that performance, a bit like Hannah's comments and I didn't really get it. I think, and this isn't necessarily a compliment if you put it in the full context of the way in which it's meant, I thought it was our best 90 minute performance of the season.
00:05:36
Speaker
And I can't point to another game where actually I think we've been near the levels required for as large a percentage of the game as last night. And let's be positive. We created big chances. Dean Smith is very keen on XG. We absolutely battered them on XG. I think it was near two goals for us and like half a golfer.
00:05:58
Speaker
for QPR. There was promising performances from forward players. I thought Todd Cantwell offensively was really good. Defensively, I think maybe he neglected a couple of his duties on occasions, but actually was really
Team Dynamics: Tempo and Physical Struggles
00:06:10
Speaker
good going forward. Aaron Ramsey showed promise in fits and starts. Gabriel Sarra picked up some really interesting positions and actually physically looked like he was adapting to the task a bit more than he has in previous starts.
00:06:26
Speaker
I mean, capable nine times in the first half. It was a lot dreadful. Yeah, I still just don't agree with that. I think, I think.
00:06:35
Speaker
physically, I think he was way more up for the battle than I'd seen in previous games. And he was putting in, he was harrying people, he was pressing people, he was winning the ball back in certain scenarios. But anyway, he gave the ball away nine times upon that the moves kept breaking down because of Sarah giving the ball away nine times in the space of about 20 minutes, we counted it. Okay.
00:06:59
Speaker
So in terms of other output, I thought it was very good in terms of the positions that he picks up, you know, and late runs into the box and all those kinds of things. There's something to work with. So, yeah, I do think, you know, it's as good a 90 minute performance as we put together this season. That's a worry because it wasn't brilliant. And, you know, we're now what, 18 games in, 19 games in, something along those lines.
00:07:21
Speaker
And you're right, Tom, there was some slow and ponderous play. And my issue with it, I guess, is that whenever we play with urgency, whenever we play with zip, whenever we play with bravery, we look like we can carve teams open. We look like we can create the chances required to win games. And we did create enough chances to win that game last night, hit the post twice. Pookie had a brilliant save that the QPR keeper pulled off.
00:07:46
Speaker
There were other really presentable opportunities. All right, QPR had their moments and Angus Gunn had to make a couple of excellent saves. But on the balance of play, we definitely deserved three points against the team that was above us in the league. We should be able to take the positives out of that. But you just know that there's so much more. You just know that actually if we can start to go through the gears, if we can click, there is enough talent, there is enough potential that we should be able to play quicker. We should be able to
00:08:15
Speaker
to play through the lines and go from front to back way quicker than we
Managerial Debate: Dean Smith's Role
00:08:21
Speaker
have. And it feels like it's about tempo to me now. It feels like it's about urgency and energy. And I'm not necessarily sure we had enough of that last night. I think maybe in some of that as well is just you've got a few players who
00:08:36
Speaker
I don't know how Isaac Hayden got through however, you know, what was it about 75 minutes, 80 minutes, something along those lines before he was hooked. He looked dead on about 35 minutes, you know. There was some interesting substitutions and I think maybe we could have freshened it up earlier, maybe we could have looked at different areas. We brought Kenny McLean on at left back when we had Max Ehrens on the bench, which I think was an interesting message to send to him.
00:09:02
Speaker
Yeah so it all it still all felt a little bit disjointed but there was there was positives to cling to and certainly was much improved on on a Stoke performance which was as dire as it has got this season for at least 65 minutes.
00:09:16
Speaker
Yeah, after our, after our podcast on whenever it was, or the weekend where we effectively said, we think the time has come that after the Bernie game, wasn't it? And ahead of the Stoke game, we thought the time had come where we aren't going to see the, we're not going to get the benefits of this, of
Club Strategy and Managerial Changes
00:09:39
Speaker
the qualities that this team can provide us. And thus we need to
00:09:45
Speaker
Yeah, we basically need to say, see you later to Mr. Smith, if that's ever going to happen, even though neither of us thought it was going to happen. Then the Stoke game happened, and I'm sitting there thinking, yeah, called that completely right, other than my criticism of Ramsey, who then scored two goals, one of which was a tap-in, and one of which was a very, very good one too, the kind of bravery of one-touch play around the box that actually unlocks defenses.
00:10:13
Speaker
fair play to him and I also thought Ramsay was excellent last night as well. He still gave the ball away a few too many times in the first half for my liking but he really does seem to be a player who with the confidence that he obviously is getting from being routinely selected and now obviously chipping in my goals.
00:10:30
Speaker
He really does look like a good asset in that front line. I would still pick Nunez ahead of him if Nunez could be played in the 10. I think Nunez as a 10 will do more damage to more championship defenses than Ramsey. However, Smith has been proven right in the last two games, starting Ramsey and the fact that Ramsey has contributed two goals and a lot of good play last night, so fair play to him. My challenge to
00:11:01
Speaker
to Smith's getting too much credit for last night is after the final whistle in his press match conference, he said, yeah, the first 15, 20 minutes, we moved the ball really quickly and we played with tempo and I think we showed what we're capable of.
00:11:21
Speaker
And you just think, yeah, that's what we've all been saying all season, Dean. Why? Whose fault is it if they only do it 15 minutes? I mean, whose fault is that? I mean, it simply cannot be down to individual mistakes or individual errors that you've got a group of, you know, like you just said, we've had 19 games now, so a decent body of evidence.
00:11:43
Speaker
And in that 19 games, we have seen routinely Norwich turn up for seven minutes at a time, 10 minutes at a time, last night, 15 minutes. And it was really good. 20 minutes in last night, sitting there with my good pals around me and the season ticketee people who were there every week.
00:12:01
Speaker
And we were sort of saying to each other, even if we lose this game, even if we stay in this division and we lose the same numbers of games that we win, if we play like we've played in this first 20 minutes for most of the game, knowing that no team really does it for 90 minutes, even Man City don't do it for 90 minutes, we would really, really be happy with that.
00:12:21
Speaker
Unfortunately, within a few minutes after halftime, we had gone back to the Stoke first half style of playing really, really slow, boring, predictable, easy to close down football. And I'll bring up the Stoke game again, because in the second half, I think the way we counterattacked and took those goals really nicely was brilliant.
00:12:46
Speaker
But I do think it left some people with a really rosy complexion on actually that Stoke game. It's great that we won. Of course, it is delighted. I cheered all the goals. And the size of cheer on the third goal was a lot louder than the two before, because the way that we had been attacking and counterattacking, we felt a goal was coming. And it occurred to me that quite a lot often in the Dean Smith regime, you don't necessarily know a goal is coming.
00:13:11
Speaker
you because goals caught some sort of they just sort of happen because the pookey does something clever or suddenly the key or the or what the keeper makes mistake or the defender makes mistake is very rarely because we've done attack down the left didn't quite happen attack down the left didn't quite happen attack down the left this time he's cut it back and we've scored and it's that whole lack of repeatable pattern thing that we've been talking about so
00:13:34
Speaker
I'm still scratching my head after those two games. It's four points. One, a win that we should have gotten. We did, even though Stoke had, should have scored three or four goals themselves. They had some people wide open at the back post several times and didn't hit the target. And QPR, yeah, I appreciate that they are above us in the table, but whether or not they're going to be top six in the season, they seem, they seem a bit shorter quality to me when they did have the opportunities. Gun made two brilliant saves from sort of cross shots.
00:14:03
Speaker
And there was one excellent one where they hit the post and then he was up again to get down to the left to save again. That was excellent and that's the sort of thing which is why he will keep that place maybe for the whole season.
00:14:13
Speaker
But I'm just going to scratch my head. He's not going anywhere. You don't sack a manager when you are still within a couple of wins of automatic places. And in any meeting with ownership or Stuart Weber, he would still be able to point to that 15 minutes and say, look at the chances we created. Look at what we did. I've done that. I think you're almost into two camps.
00:14:45
Speaker
our players are good enough to do that, why can't we do it more often Dean Smith? Or well done Dean Smith, you've got us to play football for at least 15 minutes. Do you agree with that? That's a really tough one. I think, I mean, I'd say I'm definitely more in the former camp in that I think, I think fundamentally we do have a very good squad. We've shown, as you say, in flashes that they can play the kind of football that we would like them
00:15:13
Speaker
to play. So it is a bit baffling as to why he seems incapable of getting that out of them on a consistent basis. But I think my issue with Dean Smith
00:15:33
Speaker
I think it goes right back to his appointment and I mean I know this is sort of hashing up old conversations and issues but I just think the way that he was appointed felt like such sort of anathema to everything that had gone before and everything that we had been told about how the club wants to play and you know the whole I'm loath to bring up Farka because I know of
00:16:03
Speaker
people think we're just kind of harking back to this, this just dreamy era. None of us can get over Farko. But that's not really the point. It's not him specifically, but it's everything that he represented and the direction that the club appeared to be going in. And he was this, you know, a bit of a wild card. We didn't know much about him, but I think in a weird way that sort of gave you more confidence because at least you felt like the club had done some work there and were making a very deliberate appointment
00:16:33
Speaker
Um, because they thought that he would do what they wanted to do and fulfill the, the aims that, that they had. And he fit this mold that they were looking for. Whereas with Smith, you just, you know, he was only free, what, like a month before, um, before the knowledge job came up. And then they sort of said, Oh, you know, we've always admired him and it just worked out so well. And it was so serendipitous. And, but.
00:16:59
Speaker
I find that just really hard to believe that he was really top of that list. And I just think ever since, there's just been such a disconnect for me between what he represents and what I would, what I thought the club was aiming for and wanted to do. And so, and nothing, none of the football has changed my mind on that, you know, nothing that has happened since has
00:17:26
Speaker
has made me go, Oh no, actually he did, you know, I see where
Communication Breakdown: Club and Fans
00:17:29
Speaker
he fits in and this, this grand plan now. Um, so I'm still, I'm just still a bit, a bit baffled by, by him and what he's, what he's for in this club. Um, yeah.
00:17:42
Speaker
I mean, you use the D word disconnect, which kind of brings us on to the the finance director interview of last week, which was just sort of own goal when we already when they're already podcasts and conversations going on fan media last week, ours included saying, is this really the direction you want to go in kind of from a coaching point of view?
00:18:08
Speaker
why are the club so tone deaf to what we feel like as fans, not as fan media, we don't matter. And then out comes that interview where randomly a finance director is weighing in on something that really the sporting director or Zoe or someone else should be talking about. So do you want to speak to that, John?
00:18:29
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think, yeah, the words that you've used there, tone deaf, kind of hit the nail on the head for me. I think the club has a position in terms of the way in which it's talking to fans at the moment, which, look, I don't necessarily agree, well, not even necessarily agree with, I just don't agree with the way in which they're talking to fans at the moment, you know, be it cherry picked questions via Twitter to, you know, to then stick out a YouTube video. I don't think it's the most effective way of talking to your supporters in general.
00:18:59
Speaker
But look, it's the way they've chosen to do it. The club's point of view on this, because I have spoken to people at the club relatively recently, is that actually,
00:19:11
Speaker
Anthony Richens, however we say that, was put up for that video. And because he is part of the executive team or the senior leadership team, however we badge that, that all of those people, so Anthony Richens, Sam Hall, Sam Jeffery, Neil Adams, Stuart Weber, Zoe Ward, whoever it may be,
00:19:34
Speaker
should be able to talk with authority on any issue because they are, you know, kind of completely, you know, all of these people are completely across the business. So I kind of get that logic. However,
00:19:48
Speaker
the way in which, you know, the disconnect was dismissed. And it was dismissed. It was, you know, it was pretty much, well, we don't think it exists. Just really condescending. And I don't necessarily think, you know, Anthony Richards is trying to be condescending. I think that there is a, maybe a
00:20:05
Speaker
Attitude at the club that are not just doesn't exist is them not talking about it on social media and actually it's something that someone's dreamt up and they're talking about it on podcasts and the more people Talk about it. The more you know, it becomes a thing but actually it's not a thing and all we need to do is win games of football No, because we won a game of football against Stoke and actually I felt exactly the same and I think lots of other supporters felt exactly the same and it all comes back to the really salient point that Hannah was making there is that when Dean Smith was appointed and
00:20:33
Speaker
You know, a few weeks before that, when we were all living in a world of Daniel Farka and let's not, you know, revisionist about it, we were all pretty much calling for Farka's head. But we knew what the plan was. And we knew that actually, or we thought that if the club went and asked Daniel Farka that we had, I don't know, umpteen, you know, big old long list of ready-made replacements who are going to be able to come in and play some kind of similar version of Farka ball or expansive, attractive football that would kick us on.
00:21:03
Speaker
And what we got was Dean Smith. And what we could have got was Frank Lampard. I mean, fucking hell, you know, that frightens me even more. But, you know, but actually, were they the two best candidates out there? Was it that, you know, actually Knudsen was was the man and, you know, he couldn't be free from contract and it was really bad timing. One thing I'm going off on one call.
00:21:25
Speaker
No, because we haven't mentioned it for a very long time, and I don't know if we ever actually mentioned it at the time, but we were certainly told, and I don't think we were allowed to say it, or we were certainly being careful about saying it, that the reason they wanted Frank Lampard was similar to Smith in that the number two was really attractive. He was going to bring that guy... Oh, yeah, this guy from Chelsea.
00:21:49
Speaker
wasn't he? Yeah, who apparently was extremely hardly thought of and that was just as much a point and because and because he was he was not available to be interviewed and not he just didn't have as good a nickname as Shaky. So, you know, we were told we were basically told that that that was one of the kind of reasons that that that that Lampard was a serious candidate because of this extra this sort of extra dimension of the great coach that he might be able to tease out a Chelsea that we couldn't get
00:22:18
Speaker
fair. But I think what I'm trying to say is that we had a plan, we all knew what the plan was and now it feels like the plan has changed and we haven't been told what it's been changed to. And look, I can get on board with plans if you tell me and you're honest and people sit at the outset of this project that we will be honest with you and we will talk to you and you might not like it but we will tell you what we're doing. I don't really feel like we're getting that at the moment and
00:22:44
Speaker
Look, I don't want to use this podcast as a vehicle to beat the club with a massive stick because ultimately there's some really good people that we know at the football club who get fan culture, who get what it's all about, who get
00:22:58
Speaker
what Norrie City as a football club should be about. I just think it was, as you say, tone deaf and just to dismiss it, it reeked of arrogance. And I think the club would probably be keen to point out now that it was just poorly worded. And if they'd had their time again, they would put it in a different stance. Because look, the actual thrust behind it was,
00:23:24
Speaker
Come on, we all need to get together and we all need to be a bit more behind the lads. And to go back to the QPR game, I thought that was probably the best home atmosphere that we've had all season, apart from the stodgy bit in the middle and towards the end of the second half. Actually, the atmosphere first half was really, really good and it surprised me. Maybe it was a night under the lights, maybe it was the fact that we came out of the traps relatively quickly, but it was quite a good atmosphere. But I think what Anthony Richards was trying to say is the players need you.
00:23:52
Speaker
and we need you and come on board. And I just think it was poorly worded. And as I say, if they could do it again, they would communicate that in a slightly different way. The bit that was more concerning for me, and I know the Pink and Boys have kind of had their say back on this, and I would encourage anyone to listen to the last 10 minutes of the Pink and podcast this week.
00:24:15
Speaker
No, listen to the whole podcast. Listen to the whole podcast. Listen in particular to the last 10 minutes. If you want to do the washing up whilst you listen to the first 45, great. Turn it up and give absolute dedication to the last 10, 15 minutes because Paddy is excellent on swiping back at the club. Always excellent. He is very, very good. It worries me that
00:24:44
Speaker
The club knew the importance and recognized the importance of having local media and fan media kind of in the circle of trust. And that's not happening anymore. And as far as we understand it, the club really aren't making any efforts to repair that relationship. And the boys at Archon NewsQuest, whatever we call them now,
00:25:04
Speaker
have made attempts to do that. It just makes me sad because ultimately everyone loses off the back of this. As Paddy had said, it's supporters that lose because they don't get the additional context that the Pinkham boys have brilliantly given us over the last few seasons. It still feels like there's a lot that's broken that would be quite easy to fix and I think that's the thing that annoys me the most.
00:25:27
Speaker
So on that, let me just, I don't know how many of our listeners also read the match reviews on longcomerage.com and obviously we share them on social media afterwards. I thought Paul was on duties for last night's review.
00:25:44
Speaker
and I thought that it was worth sharing and I don't think I've ever actually read it out verbatim before on a podcast but he just phrased this I thought so well. He talks about being too old to care about a disconnect between the fans and the club and then goes on to talk about it quite a lot so I'm not sure if he is too old but he effectively describes it thus.
00:26:07
Speaker
Quite simply, if you play good football, both will look after each other. But in life, we have choices. I work in psychology and we often say to clients that you can't change someone else's behaviour, but you can change your own attitude, actions and behaviour towards that person. In time, that may influence how they behave towards you. As a football club and a brand, you can choose to question why 25,000 plus fans aren't supporting the team as you'd like them to. Or you could choose to understand that's a battle you're never going to win because, well, 25,000 people.
00:26:37
Speaker
You could choose to deny a disconnect or you could choose to say you're open to exploring it. Fans can choose to boo Kenny McLean wrong or to support and motivate him right. Dean Smith could choose to take 30 seconds of his time at the end of a match to applaud the fans or he could choose to make public statements about not doing that.
00:26:55
Speaker
which would have been the better return on investment. Stuart Weber could choose to talk more often to us about the ongoing plan for NCFC in the way that so endeared into Norwich fans a few years ago. Or he could choose to say nothing aside from a club interview.
Improving Fan Relations: Communication Strategies
00:27:09
Speaker
I think he hits an A on the head in that it is so basic how easily fixable some of these things are. And I was saying to the boys in the pub before the game last night that
00:27:25
Speaker
I was really surprised because of the nature of the counter-attack goals and the fact that it felt there was some momentum building and that was the loudest we've cheered to go home for a long time, the third against Saturday and Campbell being part of that and the subs being made to finally have the right players on the pitch you should have started with etc.
00:27:44
Speaker
I thought that was a perfect time for Smith to break his, I'm not going to go and clap any fans. I'm not going to, you know what I mean? I'm going to basically dissolve into the, into the suspension. And what are your thoughts on that, Hannah? Are you, do you agree with kind of Paul's sentiment that a lot of this stuff feels easily fixable? And, and, and do you agree with Punt's point that it does kind of come off as arrogant that we'll look, we'll run the way at the club, the way we want to run it. We'll give you, we'll throw you a bone when we feel like it. And if not, you just got to deal with it.
00:28:14
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. I read Paul's piece this morning and yeah, I thought that was absolutely, absolutely bang on. And again, it just kind of goes back to what I was saying before is that you do feel like the choices that are being made, I mean, we don't understand them. None of us seem to get quite a lot of them because they're not being explained to us. The club doesn't seem willing to do that anymore. And I definitely think there's a bit of arrogance and there's a bit of, um,
00:28:41
Speaker
I mean, you know, I'm, I'm a journalist. I work on a sports desk. I know what that environment is like. I know sort of the editorial processes that are behind decisions that are made. I know what, what drives, um, writers and editors and what they're trying. I mean, you know, I work on a national paper. It's a bit different from a local paper, but, um, I know that that what the local, the local press want to do is just to provide the absolute best coverage they can.
00:29:09
Speaker
And they want to connect to the fans. They want to connect to their readership. They do that by providing analysis. And sometimes that is criticism. And that is just part of the job. That's what journalism is. That's what good journalists do. And the fact that the club seem a bit afraid of that, I think, is worrying. Because the fact that they're withdrawing the access
00:29:36
Speaker
just sort of want to put everything out through their own channels and they want to kind of control the narrative to that extent. That makes me worried because it makes me think why are they afraid of that? Why are they afraid of that scrutiny? Why are they afraid of that relationship? I'm 99.9% sure that none of those local journalists are out to get anyone. Their motivation is not to attack, is not to undermine. They just want to report on things that matter to the fans and they want to report
00:30:06
Speaker
you know, reflect the supporter sort of sentiment and mood. And that is a perfectly, you know, legitimate and honest thing to do. And I really liked Paddy's, yeah, kind of clap back to that. I had a, just really, really enjoyed that and obviously very much understood where he was coming from. So yeah, I do, I do find that a bit worrying and, um,
00:30:36
Speaker
I don't really know how they sort of start to fix that, I suppose, beyond just repairing that particular relationship. I think it would go a long way for fans as well to restore their kind of trust and the sense that they are being listened to and that they matter. I think that is not the kind of prevailing feeling at the moment.
Match Atmosphere: Enhancing Engagement
00:31:02
Speaker
No, there was a couple of meetings earlier this week, wasn't there, John, with regards to atmosphere. Do you want to just tell the listeners around what was said and, you know, any momentum that might have gathered space because, you know, you don't have to be the most eagle-eyed to see there's not been a great deal in the way of organized activity rather than an impaired view drummer.
00:31:29
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, now the impaired view drummer. Yeah, that came up. So yeah, so there was one meeting this week that I'm aware of, which was specifically atmosphere centric at the club. And look, this is a recognition because along come Norwich, Buckley and Norwich, we used to have regular diarised meetings with the club, which were all about improving atmosphere, looking at what kind of displays that we could undertake.
00:31:52
Speaker
looking at all, you know, all the weird and wonderful stuff like, you know, pre-match music, can we have flags in the stands? Can we have a drum? You know, kind of all the obvious stuff, I guess, that people would think and have seen that, you know, is the kind of thing that fan groups have been doing up until maybe, you know, a year, 18 months ago. And those meetings kind of dropped off a cliff with COVID and then they never really got re-diorised. So it was good that the club had recognised that the atmosphere at Carrow Road
00:32:20
Speaker
has been really poor this season, and I think they were at pains to say that, and they brought a few supporter groups into the fold to talk about that. So it was fairly well represented with a number of supporter groups there, and perhaps more importantly, some of the right supporter groups there that discuss things.
00:32:39
Speaker
You can imagine and it's been a discussion on social media and radio Norfolk and you know an arch and the drum was a was a massive thing, you know, it was probably talks about fire a good 45 minutes and the club in fairness to them I think they realized that it was it was badly executed when they they had the impaired view drummer and
00:33:02
Speaker
What they are trying to do is to pave a way for a drum to be at Carrow Road on the regular in an area that supporters will be happy with and I think they knew that it that wasn't the optimal position but what they are also trying to do is they have a safety advisory group the local safety advisory group which is a number of
00:33:20
Speaker
different agencies being a kind of council and police representation are worried about it and are probably more worried about it than other football clubs because you know we are a one club county so they are you know that they're the only you know it's the only football club that they've got to look at whereas you know it's different in other local authority areas.
00:33:37
Speaker
But the club have recognised that one, that the drum has had a transformative effect on atmospheres for away days, and you can reference Blackpool, you can reference Watford last season, and there's other really, really good examples where the drum has been used to good effect.
00:33:53
Speaker
And they also recognize that it should be part of, or at least trialed at Carrow Road properly. But there is no easy fix in terms of, oh, let's just stick it at the back of the Berkeley, or let's stick it in the river somewhere, or wherever it might be. I think they know it's going to annoy someone.
00:34:12
Speaker
And I think what they're trying to do is to tentatively work around that and they might talk about trials at under 21 games or perhaps some of the women's matches. And what they're trying to do is to build a test case, to build a body of evidence to say to the safety advisory group, look, here's all the really good examples of where it's worked. Let's try and find a way to get it in the Berkeley or the snake pit or wherever it might be.
00:34:37
Speaker
So I think, you know, there's a lot of stuff that's said on social media where it's just like, oh, no, the club don't want it, or they've refused it. Look, they invited the guy who's the drummer to, you know, Harley, the drummer to the atmosphere meeting. And he was able to articulate his thoughts and his concerns and bring a load of really good ideas to the fore. I tap it on the table. Yeah, you know, no. Yeah. He just worked in the medium of music, mate. You know, that was all he did. Yeah.
00:35:06
Speaker
We just had to decipher what he was trying to say. He was really good common sense. He put together some ideas that had never occurred to me and I'd never heard before, but actually his fan group put forward the idea of maybe moving the away fans and shifting them towards the river end. I know some people have raised eyebrows at that. I think that's a really good idea if it could be achieved with minimal disruption because then it gives the Barkley a bit of an opportunity and the snake bits
00:35:35
Speaker
you know, sing together and maybe have a section of the South stand that would get involved in that. And, you know, you've almost then got like three sides of the ground that would then be singing in unison. So the difficulty with all of this, the club is very committed to trying to do things either in a, you know, kind of in a more sustained way, albeit through safe standing and probably maybe expectation setting of safe standing areas as to what that would look like.
00:36:03
Speaker
but also short term to improve the atmosphere. It's just that it's very difficult to when the football is a bit dour. And discussions did go down that road of, look, we need to feel connection and we need to feel that we love this football club. I don't think there's any doubt that we love this football club, but maybe that we love this group of players and that we can feel connected to this manager.
Fan Base Division: Opinions on Management
00:36:25
Speaker
You know, that general malaise is going to be difficult to break whilst we're not playing entertaining football. So if we can get more of the first 20 minutes against Preston, the first, I would say 25, 30 minutes, you know, against QPR, you know, maybe the last 20 minutes against QPR, because actually, you know, we call it huff and puff, but we created some chances, you know, kind of, we struck the woodwork and, you know, we were starting to play with a higher tempo. Oh, 100%. If we do all of those things,
00:36:55
Speaker
the atmosphere will naturally come. But if we do the easy things as well, off the pitch in terms of maybe humanizing the manager more, giving him an opportunity to tell us what his plan is, you know, kind of other directors at the club come out and tell him... He doesn't want that. That's the thing I don't understand. But this is the thing, right? So he does understand it because as we set reference on a recent pod with Connor, he went on Radio 5 Live and said that he gets it and said that he knows about that he needs a connection or the team need a connection with the fans.
00:37:24
Speaker
So someone from the club maybe needs to sit him down and go, you know what, you know, you're a bit asking your press conference the other day because the fans aren't getting behind you. Here's what you might be able to do to, you know, just get a few of them on board. And if you get, you know, that 200 in Blockier, the Barkley on board, then a lot of other people will probably come with you because they'll start singing your name because no one's singing Dean Smith's Yellow Army anymore. It sounds quite good because of the emphasis on bang up for it.
00:37:50
Speaker
And I sung it with gusto at the start of his tenure because he wanted one again. So I want to one fun thing I want to pick up on before we give our guarantees for Middlesbrough. And I'm still I mean, I was a bit.
00:38:05
Speaker
Is that what, oh yeah, Rotherham next, isn't it? Is Middlesbrough next home game? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, okay, fine. I haven't done a podcast for four years. I still haven't got used to getting the pictures in front of me. So we'll give some guarantees for Rotherham. But one thing I wanted to pick up, I always get a little bit disappointed when Norwich fans can't get on on social media because I am pathetic in that way and it shouldn't affect my mood at all. But I just, I don't like it when people who I respect and have met in real life and think have got a very decent, relatively
00:38:34
Speaker
sensible view of football have got opposing opinions like you always have in football. And if it was a pub discussion, it would be a relatively friendly sort of now we talking about Sarah was great. No, he wasn't. He was rubbish. And that would be the end of it. But instead, it tends, it turns into kind of a sub Tweety kind of divided. And I think that I do think that that is a that is
00:38:57
Speaker
worse this season than it was even during the worst times of the when some of us had decided farka we think you're damaging your legacy you need to move on versus the farka die hard so you really did hold on the longest and so for example there's you know not naming anyone specifically
00:39:17
Speaker
But there are a few people who are kind of making out that people have already made their mind up and they won't change their mind. Yet there are some, let's be unfair, but accurate, old boys who have made their mind up about mucking about with it at the back.
00:39:35
Speaker
and and and get on with it and lump and i don't like campwell and i'll never like a camp model i don't like errands and i mean i had a verbal altercation with someone in the queue for the turnstiles before the stoke game who overheard me saying to my pal who was coming with me that errands was probably not going to start because he had a concussion so he couldn't train very much and he said something along the lines of errands being rubbish anyway
00:39:59
Speaker
And I just had to point out, you know, I just read that stat about how how much he hadn't missed games, and how brilliant he has been for the football club. And I just basically gave him a diatribe until he just turned around and stopped listening. Because that's ridiculous. You can't slag off Max Ehrens in front of me and not expect me to do that. But yeah, I don't I don't think there are that many of the of the Norwich fan base that have made their mind up on Smith, to an extent that
Expectations for Dean Smith: Future Prospects
00:40:26
Speaker
if there were more of the first 15-20 minutes on Saturdays, sorry, last night, than the kind of that stodgy 25-30 minutes in the middle and all of the first half a stoke, if we started to see more of
00:40:42
Speaker
those patches of play in exactly the same way as Carrow Road started to get a bit noisy and started to have a bit of momentum about it towards the end of the game last night and we were on the edge of our seat last night and we did jump up when we hit the post because we thought we were really brought in because they had done enough in that game in patches to have us with them and believe in them and think that a goal might be around the corner soon which gets you up and gets you singing.
00:41:06
Speaker
I don't think, I think that those people who basically say that do a disservice to their fellow fans who might not be able to be as pragmatic as they feel they're able to be. I am very much in a camp where I don't think Norwich can, will get to their
00:41:25
Speaker
full potential on the pitch with Dean Smith in charge because of the body of evidence that players I have seen play brilliant football don't seem to be able to reproduce that under him for more than a few minutes in a game. I'm only going on evidence. I would be over the moon to be wrong because I would really want there to be lots and lots and lots of what happened last night because I really thoroughly enjoyed the first 20 minutes last night. I really enjoyed the counter-attacking goals against Stoke
00:41:50
Speaker
And I would love for him and Shaky to be here for five years and take us to the Premier League and keep us there. Of course I would. But I fundamentally don't think that it's
00:42:06
Speaker
I don't think it's right to just say that people have made up their mind and that they aren't willing to change it. Yes, if you're going into a game with a negative opinion of a player, you are going to count the number of passes they misplayed. Yes, if you're going into a game with an opinion of a manager and you notice that
00:42:25
Speaker
You notice that you're doing worse things with the ball than you were for a chunk of the game. You're going to point it out because it supports your argument. But I fundamentally think that I do think it's a salvageable situation with Smith and the fans. I really do. I think the players are good enough to bail him out. And what it comes down to, I think, is in these games running up to the World Cup break,
00:42:51
Speaker
do the players put in enough of a shift for him to replicate what happened in the first part of last night regularly enough that actually we come back from the World Cup break with a bit more of a positive view of the manager in terms of well actually the last few games going to the World Cup break and the fixtures are slightly more favorable for us running into that as well than they have been recently. We have had a tough run of fixtures recently
00:43:14
Speaker
You know maybe things can be salvageable and because he's not going anywhere anytime soon so that's another reason why i am one of those who are very very happy to change my opinion and be team smith in because i'd much rather be supportive of the person we currently got because it just makes life more enjoyable and what do you think that's nonsense but.
00:43:36
Speaker
No, yeah, I'm completely with you in so much as I would. I would much rather that Dean Smith win me over and that Dean Smith's style of football and his blueprint that he's trying to preach to his players starts to work because if we just look at
00:43:54
Speaker
you know, brutally from a financial sense, we probably can't afford to sack him. We probably can't afford to sack his coaching team. So, you know, it almost becomes necessity that it works. And I wonder whether that is part of, or that was part of maybe a previous reticence to consider that, was because financially, look, you know, the financial director set it out in, you know, stark terms around, you know, kind of our financial future. And I should actually say, just going back to Anthony Richton's video,
00:44:24
Speaker
And we've talked about the two minutes at the end, which were really disappointing. 13 minutes of it were really good and really intelligent and useful insight and context. So, you know, I think we should probably just put that on record, but two minutes of it were an absolute shocker. But yeah, look, if Dean Smith, I'm, I'm still of the view that I probably don't want him to take forward my football club at the moment, but I'm very happy to have my mind changed on that and to have it changed quickly. And if that starts at Rotherham on Saturday and we put in a blind in,
00:44:50
Speaker
you know, 70, 75 minute performance, then, yeah, I will. I thought you could say we played a blind in seven nil. I was gonna say, you said, you know. Seven nil, yeah. If we play seven nil, I'll accept anything less than that, no. There's my guarantee, mate, seven nil, no problem. Okay, Hannah, do you agree, final thing on this, and I promise we'll let you get on with your day. Do you think that I am being ridiculous in thinking that part of the reason that I,
00:45:22
Speaker
pessimistic about Smith winning me over. And I want him to, I want his team to win all the time because they're my team and they'll be my team before him and way after him. But part of the reason I'm not sure he will win me over is because I don't think he gives a flying fuck if he does. I don't think he cares. I just, I don't think, whilst as Pont says, he has said on record that he understands that it can be helpful to a manager to have the player, to have the fan support.
00:45:51
Speaker
his behavior suggests to me he doesn't give two flying hoots. Do you think that that is an unreasonable position for me to take? Uh, leading question. No, I, no, I don't think it's, um, I don't think it's unreasonable. I think like you say, you are basing that on, uh, on the, on the body of evidence, you know, he, I mean, I listened to that, um, it wasn't really an interview, but the chat when he went on five live,
00:46:17
Speaker
I listened to that and like, yeah, great. You know, he comes across as a, as a very personable guy. He was sort of saying, saying the right things, but, but you're, you're right. Why doesn't he say that to us? Why does he give? I mean, I don't tend to ever listen to his, his post-match comments very often because I sort of feel like he's not going to say anything remotely interesting. Um, and he just sort of repeats the same kind of lines and.
00:46:47
Speaker
Yeah, I don't I mean, as I said, like, I felt this all along, I just don't know what what he does. I still don't really know what he does. I still don't really know what his approach is. And he, like you say, he's made absolutely no effort to to explain that or to yeah, to connect with
00:47:15
Speaker
this club really beyond the usual kind of pretty basic platitude-y type sentiments.
Upcoming Matches: Predictions and Strategies
00:47:25
Speaker
I don't, yeah. So no, I don't think it'd be amenable at all. I think that's a very, a very fair position.
00:47:32
Speaker
OK, so aside from seven nil punt, what is your guarantee? So seven is the score. What is your guaranteed scorer for Norwich on Saturday? I mean, you can choose any seven goals. I'm not going to give you a guaranteed scorer, Tom. I'm going to give you a guaranteed starter. Josh Sargent will come back into the lineup and we will revert to 4-3-3 and we will look all the poorer for it.
00:48:01
Speaker
Oh dear. Um, Dean Smith, I think you've got a job on to turn punt round. Um, he hasn't, he hasn't just played Q and download in 10. Um, don't play him as a wideband fielder anymore. He will feed Pookie. Pookie will score the goals to take us to the primary. I know. And that, I have a prepared- How could you take him out after those last two performances?
00:48:24
Speaker
I can take him out after last night in fairness. It was flashes and fits and starts, but I think I think that's his thing I think that's his thing but he has put way there's been way more of the flashes in the last couple of games I mean and Ramsey's a priming example of having a change of opinion, but he won't be our player and this is the
00:48:39
Speaker
after this season, we might be our players. So I'd much rather just invest in Kieran Dow and try and get him performing because there is a player in there. Or Nunez. Or Nunez. Yeah, I'm happy with Nunez as a 10 or maybe the right side of an attacking midfield three. I want him higher up the pitch. And then Adam Brandon might stop writing nasty tweets about him. Right. Okay. Hannah, give me your guaranteed score line for Rotherham or Middlesbrough. You know, they might change the order of the fiction to make me look better. And a guaranteed event scorer or something.
00:49:08
Speaker
Ooh, I'm going to go... I'm just going to go for the old classic, 2-1, to Norwich. Desmond 2-1. Classic, yeah, exactly. But you know what, I think Hayden might get sent off.
00:49:31
Speaker
I just feel like he loves to tug back. He loves to tug back. He loves a flying tackle and he just seems just that little bit off the pace. Um, and he hasn't quite got up to speed yet. And I've sort of, yeah, I've been very nervous the last couple of matches while he's flying into.
00:49:50
Speaker
to challenges, which is great, you know, we need that. But I just don't know if he, yeah, he's not quite up to his speed yet and so I just can see him, can see him walking, unfortunately. Well, and a way to one win when you're down to 10 men is not bad, especially if you've gone back to four, three, three and started pushing out wide. Yeah, I mean, it can be like the 89th minute or something, you know, that would be absolutely fine.
00:50:14
Speaker
I would be even more cross if, you know, he then doesn't manage to make, you know, I don't think there's any way he's still on the pitch after 89 minutes. I mean, he spent a half time. Yeah. Well, yeah, before half time, I thought he was done. It's basically this fourth preseason game, wasn't it? But yeah, but I do think a key part of that good 15, 20 minute start was how solid Hayden and Gibbs looked. Yeah, I agree with that. Getting the ball and moving it.
00:50:42
Speaker
and their movement, and this might be why you're so tired, their movement whilst our back four got the ball, their movement enabled Ben Gibson to have room to pass it more diagonally in front of McCallum instead of at McCallum. So a lot of the cause of our problem is our centre backs will play the ball at our fallbacks, which then means they have to wait for it to get there.
00:51:04
Speaker
and then they have to work out whether or not they take a big risk and are really brave and turn in towards the QPR player in this case and then try and find a ball through. Whereas when the movement is such that there is space for them to play in front of that player to run onto, all of a sudden they are facing the way and a chance to play a progressive next pass to break through that line, that then becomes available again. It goes back to what we were saying with Connor.
00:51:26
Speaker
They must be working on trying to create those shapes and those spaces, because that's all coaches do, right? It's their sole reason, Detra, is to try and create more opportunities to do the things that go well. Just can't see happening enough for me. My guarantees is 4-0 and Pookie Haptrick, because, my goodness me, there's some frustration built up in that boy. He's starting to do those random screams after missing chances.
Conclusion: Thanks and Farewells
00:51:51
Speaker
I mean, he should have had a couple last night. There was a couple of times where... He's too cold, isn't he?
00:51:54
Speaker
There was a couple of times when he took an extra touch, which Pookie of Old doesn't do. And even though it's not like he's had no goals this season, he still isn't quite in that kind of rich run of foreman. But he had to ball in and around the area enough times
00:52:12
Speaker
over the last couple of cone games that I feel like maybe that might be the start of him feeling like he is in form and feeling like he might not snatch at those chances when they come and obviously he's got a he's got to get a hat trick for us to get the four or the seven nil that we have guaranteed double hat tricks seven nil they go yeah maybe you would explode
00:52:36
Speaker
There we go. We've given you six guarantees, so one of them might happen. Hannah, thank you so much for giving up your time this Thursday to talk to us. Hunt, I acknowledge you exist. And whatever happens, whether or not it is Middlesbrough or Rotherham next, do enjoy the game and do mind how you go.