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"Misery Pit" ACN Pod 144
664 Plays13 days ago
It's not got any better despite a point away at currently high flying (but we doubt for long) Stoke. Will it have to get worse, really worse, before there's a change? Is this the week it finally clicks, or finally gets blown up and reset? Clare, Jon and Tom chat doom, gloom and perspectives.
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Transcript
Norwich's Struggles: Performance Critique
00:00:21
Speaker
Welcome to the Long Come Norwich podcast. Deary, deary, deary, deary, deary me. Here comes the derby.
00:00:32
Speaker
That was shit again, Claire, wasn't it? Did they not listen to the last pod? You know, have they not realised that they need to stop being terrible when it comes to playing football? No, can we just cut and paste last week's intro and it really didn't offer any more at all, did it?
00:00:44
Speaker
Apart from... the goal, which was really well worked and offered a slight glimpse of what we can do if we actually keep the ball. But the rest of it was dire again.
00:00:56
Speaker
actually, i was at work on Saturday, so I didn't actually have to pay too much attention because I was busy, but I did force myself to watch. Well, I watched the first half yesterday after doing my entire load of housework and then having to watch it, but I couldn't even bring myself to watch the second half.
00:01:12
Speaker
I think it's admirable that you brought yourself to do it knowing poor you know knowing how poor we we ended up being. i'm Punt, punt we we were going back and forth over the last day or so the three of us, on the fact that we you you you want to, you're desperate to to kind of congratulate them for something.
Defense and Management: Areas of Concern
00:01:34
Speaker
So the defence seems to be better in one way, i.e. bodies on the line, you goalkeeper who comes out more and is is seems to be better in that way and you know, Darling got on the getting on the end and getting his head on things, etc.
00:01:47
Speaker
But we also seem to be conceding so many chances. So therefore, overall, you can't say defence uptick because, yeah, one element of defending we're better than we have been of late.
00:01:58
Speaker
But generally, we're still like in front of the back four. We seem completely incapable of stopping wave after wave of attacks. I think there's real regression in that. I actually think that Torrup's tenure was...
00:02:12
Speaker
Possibly kind of a lot of the judgment around that was misplaced because I actually thought that we defended space quite well under Torrup. But it was a collective in terms of just really poor mistakes.
00:02:25
Speaker
but we It was individual errors under Torrup that we couldn't eradicate. But actually in terms of our base shape, but the way in which we shifted the opposition around up until maybe the last 10 games of the season, I thought we were all right in that regard. And and actually it was probably...
00:02:40
Speaker
small tweaks that we need to make to progress. And then we've ripped it up. And yeah, you're right. Like, actually, there's so many concessions. I think, you know, kind of the Pinkham boys have done a really good job in terms of highlighting statistically
In Search of Direction: Team and Recruitment Issues
00:02:54
Speaker
where Norwich were at. So there's no point, well, look, you know, none of us are analytical enough to get into all of that. but But at the same time, what what it highlights is that,
00:03:03
Speaker
The metrics around it, the trends around it are really, really poor and Norwich offer up a lot of chances, a lot of territory, a lot of possession in areas that we shouldn't do. And the only thing that we're good at, the only crumb of comfort that we have is that we're good at last ditch defending.
00:03:19
Speaker
But that's a sign of a poor team for me. Like, you know, if you have to last ditch defend a lot, it's a sign of a really poor team. we're just really, really abject at the moment. And and I think, Claire, I mean, God bless you for finding, you know, the that we did, you know, we had one really good move and it was phenomenal. I mean, the way in which we moved that ball quickly, but we just seemed like it was almost like it was just a complete freak accident that it had happened because... yeah it was a one-off in the whole game.
00:03:48
Speaker
We didn't replicate it at all, did we you know, there was no kind of... And and I don't...
00:03:54
Speaker
I don't really know that anyone can put their finger on it short of they just look like they have no idea what they're supposed to be doing at the moment. And that points to one, two, maybe you know three people at the football club.
00:04:09
Speaker
So yeah, it's it's alarmingly worrying. We're only good at one thing. And the one thing that we are good at is stopping people um you know, when they've got a really presentable chance at goal, that that is not something that can continue.
00:04:24
Speaker
um And we will, yeah, we will take a shellacking at some point if we carry on this way. Well, you can't build on it. So you can't, there's there are lots of things that you can build upon, like even, you know, meaningless possession. Well, you can build on that because you can go, oh, well, we're keeping the ball. Now let's make the decisive pass or whatever. Or we're really good at set attacking set pieces, for example. Okay, well, at least we can take advantage of that and we can try and create patterns of play that's going to result in creating more set pieces that we're good from or whatever.
00:04:52
Speaker
When it's just, when it's all gone wrong, we're brave. I mean, its Like I say, it's it's a positive thing. And you know yes, we there's no doubt that when this team make mistakes, and they don't make them at the same they don't make the individual giving goals away at the same volume as they did under Torrup.
00:05:12
Speaker
But then you could argue if you were going to be a thorough apologist, you could argue that um we have such lower volume of touches of the ball, then maybe actually percentage of touches to mistakes it might be the same. you know if you If you've hardly ever got the ball, you can't give it away, can you? So maybe it's a very clever proy from Manning to say, if we're not passing it, we can't pass it to them.
00:05:35
Speaker
But that was the thing, listening to um Chris Gorham, and I think it was Joe Lewis and on CoCom's, on Saturday, because I was, I was traveling, um, uh, back from, from being away and, um, know, was, was delighted to, to when I finally got enough, his sort of towards the end of the first half, I finally got close enough to Norfolk to be able to pick up that commentary in the car.
00:05:54
Speaker
And I was, they, they seem to be kind of looking at each other and shrugging. And I can't remember Chris Gorham, you know, who, but you know, what is it, 25 years or something recently? He's just celebrated, you know, well it was a milestone, wasn't it, of how long he's been doing it recently?
00:06:11
Speaker
And I've been listening to, obviously, all of that time, for especially for away games, obviously. I can't remember him sounding as sort of baffled as as he sounded on Saturday he because he was just saying, we just don't have the ball. They don't seem to know what they're supposed to be doing.
00:06:26
Speaker
And and ah it's so difficult to put your your finger on it. Claire, is it worth... yeah Is there any way we can get around not just putting the blame on we have brought in players who are worse than the players that have left?
00:06:41
Speaker
Is there any logic that you can make that that isn't the argument? i I don't think they are necessarily worse than the players that have left. I think in all of them, we've seen, not even glimpses, i've I've seen good enough things in all of them that I think they are decent players and will be decent players.
00:07:03
Speaker
I just think we're just lacking something to tie it all together. So the defence, I think, is an upgrade on last season. The defenders, the goalkeeper, they are better than what we had.
00:07:16
Speaker
We've still got Josh. It's just that middle section. I think Mattson had a decent game. He's only his second game and I was quite impressed with him. It lovely ball through for the goal as well.
00:07:28
Speaker
um And Topic, I think, yeah, I think he's decent. It's just some... Well, it's just the creativeness missing, isn't there? That's that one player that... gives us that spark is that kind of you know got a bit of sprinkling of magic about them that's that's exactly what we're missing to tie it all together it's what we talked about last time isn't it yeah there's no emmy there isn't you know there isn't that number and i think we've been spoiled for like 20 years we've basically had wes then ah matters you know and he was brilliant for that one season and then we had emmy
00:08:04
Speaker
And then we had Gabby. Yeah. You know, all of those players, they just had that something extra about them that you were just like, wow, you know, and we just, and crucially they would do it regularly.
00:08:15
Speaker
Well, crucially they would do it regularly. So I think like last season, we didn't have that player either really, you know, since, since Sarah went. We had science and, and, and the one that can't be named, but you know, they. so Yeah. Yeah. But, but science only ever really did it for science. Yeah.
00:08:31
Speaker
Yeah, I know, he did, but he still had that bit of magic about him. There was moments. there wasn't There was, yeah, difference makers. I think that's what we're trying to say here, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. So Sainz, again, was yeah had a real purple patch. And then you know we all know how much he was a phenomenal piece of business to get as much money as we did. ah I would be more cynical about him you know being able to do it over a long period.
Challenges Ahead: Upcoming Matches and Management Decisions
00:08:54
Speaker
So I'm glad we got as much as we did for him and when we sold, definitely sold at the right time.
00:08:58
Speaker
but But I worry about the squad um and I think we're coming up to a real turning point. you know I think if you... West Brom are no mugs, are always, every season they're in the Championship, they are one of the hardest teams to play, one of the best squads, um always well coached, almost no matter who's in the dugout. They seem to be good at picking managers to to have them there or thereabouts.
00:09:27
Speaker
and And that's going to be a really difficult game. Now, when you add on to that, yeah so so that doesn't matter if we're in first place and we've we've got a 100% record ah and it doesn't matter if we're in relegation form.
00:09:42
Speaker
When you add into that, that we are hosting them at a venue where There are plenty of people who are only going to need one defensive error or one goal conceded to start booing and to start shouting. You don't know what you're doing. Liam, sort it out.
00:09:56
Speaker
Napa, Napa, Euro, whatever. i i think that if they were, especially if they were to concede early, it could become, that could be the schlacking that I think you were mentioning, Punt. That could be weak that could be four or five.
00:10:08
Speaker
I feel like we need we need to somehow create and take a couple of chances early. to build enough confidence in the ground to support the players through that. Because the players' confidence must be through the floor, you know, playing at home.
00:10:24
Speaker
Because they they must know, um um they must be shattered from having to defend for such huge periods of the game. you know they've You know, whilst we've got a very young team, you know, it's not like we've got a bunch of old veterans.
00:10:38
Speaker
But they've all got lots and lots of, you know, first team experience and they know they're not supposed to be defending last ditch as much as they have had to this season so far, right? They won't have had to have done that long periods before.
00:10:51
Speaker
So, so punt, do you think it's possible that, you know, the game that's coming on Sunday against that lot down the road um could be Manning and Napa's last game if we go lose, lose this week?
00:11:06
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Because I think could. I absolutely think it could. I almost feel like... God, and we'd be into like the days of Brian Hamilton, you know someone just being appointed just before the derby. But I almost feel like if we took that schlack in um against West Brom on Wednesday night, I don't know.
00:11:27
Speaker
ah feel like they might even then just go, that's enough. We've seen enough. and and Because I just feel like... One, ah think Ben Knapp has already demonstrated that you know he can be quite decisive.
00:11:40
Speaker
And when it became really clear to him personally that Torrop wasn't going be his guy and actually top six wasn't a possibility under or we regressing. or you know we were regressing pulled the trigger very quickly, you know, and, you know, from noises that the club have made, you know, much to the surprise of the ownership as well. You know, they weren't expecting that phone call from him, you know, kind of in the middle of the night saying, actually, look, we're going to get rid Johannes.
00:12:07
Speaker
um And the Americans cannot be happy with what's going on. And from what i observe of them, they seem to be quite plugged into what the fans think and what the fans feel. And,
00:12:22
Speaker
if social media is one of them barometers, like it's not pleasant at the moment. And I think I'd probably come back to the main thing that I've been worried about for some time is we don't seem to have a sense of purpose or what we're trying to do.
00:12:37
Speaker
But also, was trying to rack my brains around three consecutive performances that I've seen from Norwich City that have been this bad, you know kind of all all on the spin,
00:12:51
Speaker
I don't know. Can you guys remember anything like that? Smith. so so Actually, that was a question that wanted to ask. that But this is a question I wanted to ask. course was like, actually, if someone said Liam Manning's football right now right now, as it is, current iteration,
00:13:06
Speaker
or Dean Smith and yeah in the championship, I'd probably take Dean Smith. And that is an awful statement to make. wow i think I think that's inverse recency bias.
00:13:18
Speaker
ah yeah you Because yeah you've got to remember how ready... I don't know. Some of it was all right at the start. but some Some of it was like it it is pragmatic. but This is shit. just This is so shit.
00:13:30
Speaker
It is shit. You're completely right. But the you you can't just pick... We easily had three terrible performances in a row. But I'll tell you why I picked Smith, right? I picked Smith's football over Manning's football right now because Manning could turn it around and it could be brilliant and everything could be totally great forever.
00:13:46
Speaker
But the reason that I'd pick Smith's football right now is, and we said it on this pod ad nauseum, like we're getting away with it because there are moments of magic that we have in the squad and we don't have those moments of magic in footballers at the moment in this current squad.
00:14:00
Speaker
Or at least, you know, we've we've got a Sarge but we're not getting in the ball enough. This team under Smith would be worse. we would We were decent at home for a long time. like We didn't lose a home game in over a calendar year and under several managers. So the home fans were getting something and seeing something.
00:14:18
Speaker
We were rubbish away last season, but most of us didn't witness that, whereas now it's completely flipped over. Well, not completely flipped. We're not great to watch away, but at least, you know, we've been picking up points we haven't lost, but that doesn't appease the home fans. It's promotion form away from home. emotional form Well, it is wait on last year's home form.
00:14:38
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it did but I think that's worth, I think it's worth considering as a thought experiment. If you flip all the home results for all the away results, um, I don't think we're in this.
00:14:50
Speaker
I don't think we're in quite the same predicament. Now, whilst the quality will still have been bad and we'd have been watching the quality be bad and people would have seen how awful it was at Stoke and the rearguard action at Coventry, ah that the cheers of all of those clearances against Coventry um would have been pretty, you know, that that would have been pretty, because we would have seen, as we saw, you know for those of us who watched it, you know, remotely and against Kov, that they were really up for it. And they were playing really well, Coventry. I mean, they would have given anyone in the championship a really hard game that day. They really did look, and I know you hate Nampard Pump, but, you know, whether or not you think he's lucky or whatever, he's got playing. We haven't been dominated like that for some time.
00:15:33
Speaker
No, they really looked they they looked like they they looked like the team that have recently scored seven and could score seven again. Krover's second, aren't they? And Stoke are third. So you could also argue know that potentially they are the best. Stoke can't finish in top six. There's no way Stoke finish top no but they They look average, really average. There's no way Wrexham are outside the bottom three. But if you look at the if you look at what we've if you look at that home form versus the away form,
00:15:59
Speaker
If you flip that over, I feel like Liam Manning's been really unlucky that that's the way that the cookie has crumbled for him results-wise. I feel... Hang on, are you saying that like if we'd have had the Coventry performance at home that people would have been more positive about it? Because I feel like it might have been the complete reverse because we were so badly outplayed.
00:16:19
Speaker
I think if we take that kind of... But you're not walking hope but you're not warful home... You're not walking home after another defeat. You're not going back to the club. I mean, maybe our... um Maybe I'm slightly different, but i look at how we've played and like i place quite a lot of stock in that.
00:16:35
Speaker
As a home fan, I think if we'd have played that badly and then we'd allied that to a couple of away defeats as well, I'd be like, no, I don't know. Maybe it's because I try and watch most of them as well. and We'd still be concerned, but I don't think it would be as negative as it is now because effectively we wouldn't we wouldn't have lost at home yet and we would have watched two wi two victories and two draws.
Identity Crisis: Style and Strategy Discussion
00:16:57
Speaker
um yeah So I think it would still we'd still be worried about what we were seeing, but it wouldn't be as as awful as it feels right now. I think it's the last three games for me, though. I think that's that it that block, I'm just like, whoa. like you know kind of Anything that preceded it, you could kind of put it down to...
00:17:16
Speaker
right He's bedding in. We've had a couple of performances where we've looked doggy. We've defended okay. The benefit of the doubt against Coventry. It's felt right. Because Coventry looked like such a good team. That was just whole other levels of of utter wank.
00:17:32
Speaker
Let's have some listener questions. do you know what? It isn't really Derby related. So it's more managerially focused. So wonder whether most people have got minds on West Brom and then let's worry about Ipswich a bit later on.
00:17:45
Speaker
um But let's go for um Run Run Richie, who has asked, is the stylistic gear change from Johanneshoff-Torup to Manning more dramatic than from Farker to Dean Smith?
00:17:59
Speaker
it kind of feeds into maybe what we were... talking about earlier Claire what you reckon um I guess yes I think so but also you know Smith basically inherited Daniel Farker's team so at least he still had those players whereas um Manning's assembled an entirely different team really to last year um I think Dean Smith suffered from the fact he wasn't Daniel Farker and we were all aghast that Daniel had gone and still mourned. he was Dean Smith.
00:18:34
Speaker
Yeah, and he was Dean Smith, but we all still mourn dear Daniel, um darling Daniel. um So, yeah, I think, but yeah, the style we're playing now, I don't think, I can't really remember a Norwich team ever really playing this way maybe I've just forgotten maybe we've been spoiled in the last ten fifteen years but it is a horrible gear shift. I cannot face the prospect of watching this type of football for the whole season.
00:19:06
Speaker
But can you, can you articulate what you think this type of football is? Cause I couldn't, wouldn't be able to, but what even is it? Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's fair. We haven't really got any kind of blueprint or, and that's, that is the big worry for me.
00:19:23
Speaker
It's Medich dithering on the ball and passing it badly to someone and getting it back. No, no, no. No. But the point is, because we haven't got a system, what happens is we try and do the horseshoe, the Farka, Thor up, you know, round and round the back until there's an option, unless Kenny comes and gets it and progresses it or Snake comes and gets it and progresses it.
00:19:42
Speaker
But other than that... Well, but this is... but but no But we do go long sometimes, but we go long badly. like yeah Well, this is it. it's just because ah is i don't under I just can't i can't get but i can't describe what his football is. no I'm doing little bunny ear quote marks.
00:20:04
Speaker
and i can't describe what that is because i don't see I don't see enough of it, even though I haven't missed a home game, if you see what mean. i i've I've seen lots of minutes when Norwich City players have been on the pitch but I don't think I've seen the same chance created twice and we're now in like basically October in two days.
00:20:24
Speaker
but We don't really have the ball very much do we? So we don't know what we're doing because we don't have the ball. But also the concern for me around that is the club haven't haven't done any kind of job really of articulating to fans like they maybe did if you talk about, you know, kind of Daniel Farker days and to an extent Dean Smith days as that as as well.
00:20:44
Speaker
you know They haven't talked to the fans and gone, this is what you're going to expect this season. These are the types of players that we've signed. This is the kind of football that you can expect. And that might be fully intentional because, you know, Liam Manning is the ultimate pragmatist and and actually, you know, kind of, we're not going to get served up a style of football. We're going to get served up,
00:21:02
Speaker
what he thinks will get us results, even though it's, you know, it's kind of not right now. But the club used to be really good at that. um the club Or, you know, the club used to be better at that. Anyway, let's put it that way.
00:21:12
Speaker
The club used to be open about what they were trying to achieve because I think the club understood actually how important it was to Norwich fans in particular to be playing a certain brand of football and it doesn't have to be swashbuckling all the time it doesn't have to be massively expensive all of the time but it has to have some footballing principles around it you know and we have to be passing the ball that feels like to me that's that's the Norwich way you know kind of what that we're ah you know so this is none of that and it's neither swash nor buckle no no it is not there's there's your podcast title today mate yeah um nailed it however
00:21:57
Speaker
I don't know. Like, ah are the people at the top of the club now so far removed from Norwich City fandom that that that's a real issue now?
00:22:09
Speaker
You know, kind of, and you know, our ownership are no longer Norwich City fans. There is no one on the exec that, you know, kind of, or, you know, the yeah, the exec that is a Norwich City fan. from From what I understand, I don't think there's a lot of senior management that, you know, kind of are Norwich City fans.
00:22:22
Speaker
Yes, we have a head coach who is from Norfolk. one of them just come back from Scum. Well, Lindsay's just come back from scum, hasn't she? Yeah. Yes. Yeah. She's a nice lady. Well, this is the flip. Are our management team actually all agents from Ipswich?
00:22:41
Speaker
Well, yeah and, you know, George Burley gets spotted quite a lot in the director's box, just saying. well I mean, that would be that would be quite, that that would be the ultimate, you know, kind of spy spy game. i kind of which right You just go and work at Bristol City for a few years, you know, and have to go and complete your coaching badges.
00:22:59
Speaker
And then when a Norwich job comes along, Liam. But he looks as, two two two points on that.
00:23:09
Speaker
Liam Manning looks as confused and bewildered as everyone else.
00:23:14
Speaker
He knows that this looks really bad. He looks scared today. He looks baffled. he looked people but He looks scared that he hasn't he doesn't know what to say because almost anything he said, if he says, i tell him to do A, B and C and that's not A, B and C, then he's then...
00:23:30
Speaker
in trouble because they say, well, you've lost the players and that's what got Torrup sacked. If he says, and we haven't found our way of playing yet, then he's in trouble because why have you not found a way of playing yet? He's damned if he does yeah doesn't. like when When your product on the pitch is that poor, he's being bailed out, which sounds mad, bearing in mind we're at the end of September only, but he's been bailed out by those away victories and draws. He's been bailed out that actually at the moment when it's relegation, it's relegation form with mid table or lower mid table points.
00:24:05
Speaker
If, if he stops getting the, the, the last ditch, you know, um, putting your, um, you know, heart on the line, getting a point draws here and there is,
00:24:19
Speaker
he's going to be in trouble. And I, and I, that's my concern for for him. Cause I do feel sorry for him. He seems like a really lovely boy and, you know, local ties and you, you, I really, really, really want, even though he wouldn't have been my choice, i really wanted him to work out and I was so willing to go with it.
00:24:38
Speaker
I was so really willing to be cup half full. As to be fair, outside of Dean Smith, I nearly always am. I'm willing to just go, well, look, i will I will pick all of the positives up when I can because life is so bleak in so many ways. Let's try and be positive about football until all of the logic and all of the data means you just can't, you can't even be rose-tinted anymore. What about the theory that his teams take a while to get going and have everywhere he's been?
00:25:04
Speaker
how much time is that exactly? Well, that that's our next question, I think, from listeners. Howard Schoones has come in and and said, um how long are you giving Manning and Napa?
00:25:16
Speaker
He then goes on to comment, footballs football and signings, tosh, and which, yeah, is probably an accurate assessment of where we've been thus far. But I think that's the question you're asking, Claire, isn't it How long do you give this? Because as you've said, Tom, several times, and I'm completely with you, I think that Manning's fate and Napa's fate are completely intertwined now.
00:25:37
Speaker
you know he's He hung his hat on Torek. That hasn't worked. He's now hung his hat on Manning and and it has to work for him. And he cuts a visibly... massively frustrated figure on match day you know you can tell there are some properly good news quest pictures of his facials um no don't take that the wrong way um but you know what i mean you know in in terms of um yeah he he's he's worried i think or or you know concerned about what's happening and how it looks on and probably on his career on that point of
00:26:13
Speaker
Jesus Christ If this is foreboding for Sunday Norwich's performance Is going to be as bad as Sky Broadband's Performance are at John's house then then were were yeah we're we're in trouble.
00:26:28
Speaker
i So, ah listener, we have tried ever so hard to bring you a pod this week, but John's internet doesn't want it to be possible. um You've just been cut out.
00:26:40
Speaker
Brilliant. i'm sure you always And now he's gone again. and now he's back again I'm here again. ah It's the sort of do the hokey-cokey. Yeah. um Yeah. So I'm sure you made some erudite points.
00:26:52
Speaker
I think with Napa, I think no doubt it. I think Napa, what might lead to... and Two things.
00:27:04
Speaker
What might lead to Napa acting really quite quickly, particularly for Norwich and maybe do something before Derby day or straight after Derby day, if Derby day goes badly, um is that very point you made. i e we we We think their fights might be tied together and he's thinking,
00:27:21
Speaker
crumbs I need to get rid of this guy and get a new person in that that can kind of quickly get some momentum so I can show I can pick someone. Because actually, i he must... Of course, he firmly believes he has bought good players.
00:27:34
Speaker
He firmly believes those players and't have got the data and the the profile to compete this level. So he must think it's Liam's fault and the coaching team's fault because he has signed off all of these transfers.
00:27:44
Speaker
So he must... It's got to be like a last roll of the dice though for me, for for him to say, let me pick a third guy who can get a tune out of my players. um And in that way,
00:27:59
Speaker
that's why he might act sooner rather than later. Cause if he leaves it until, you know, if we limp along to a Christmas in 14th or 15th or something and the football improves. Yeah. Well, no, but the point is Napa would be as well because it's almost like, he's personally. too yeah so So I think Napa might make another late night phone call to the Atanasios and say, i want to change it again.
00:28:20
Speaker
But i I honestly, I wouldn't be surprised. Let's just go get him. i i wouldn't be so I wouldn't be surprised if they just if if they say, the fact that you made this phone call has has made up our mind. that Actually, you don't have conviction in the person that you've chosen. that you know You told us to change.
00:28:37
Speaker
You told us to get a new person in. you know They will have been handsome compensation paid for those coaches. you know They were going back and forth over it. We've reshaped everything. And as the as I said on the last pod...
00:28:48
Speaker
you know In their other sports businesses, they ah they ah they see stability and they see three division titles in a row.
Future Speculations: Managerial Changes and Player Performance
00:28:56
Speaker
you know they are not They are not going to stand aside for this nonsense.
00:29:00
Speaker
And let's have it right. We're not we're not like 15 points adrift. fifteen points adrift you know it isn't The season's not lost. So the Atanasios might think similarly to Napa. OK, if we throw this up in the air now and and by let's let's say, end of October, we have a new person in charge, then we've got they could be up and running and and in by the end of the Christmas period, you're up to speed and the honeymoon period over and then the busy Christmas period and then the four months after that. There's still plenty of season to get a playoff berth here.
00:29:31
Speaker
maybe that it's just it's just isn't it bonkers that we're already talking in these terms in september like it's gone so wrong so quickly sometimes you just you just know that it's wrong and It just feels that way a little bit, doesn't it? just dust't Something's just not right and is it ever going to be right?
00:29:51
Speaker
Feels very Jez Moxie. yeah Yeah. well there's two Yeah, exactly. on the on So I know we've got West Brom before then, but we're we're very unlikely to pod before that. So I want to make a couple of points on the derby. So I feel differently about this derby than I have the ones that we've had in the last, at least five to ten, in that We are not currently on the crest of a wave. It wouldn't currently. So it's probably closest is the first Farka one.
00:30:17
Speaker
When we had that struggling start to the season, and we really weren't sure what was going on here. and And, you know, whatever it was, we were low down. They were low down as well. Both teams are struggling. It's not a million miles apart from from now i But even more so than that, there is a part of me that thinks at some point that lot will win because we're probably not going to manage to stay in a different division to them long enough and nor are they.
00:30:43
Speaker
So therefore, we probably are goingnna have to keep playing them yeah know every few years. Is it better, therefore, to get a loss out of the way now when we are, it's all crap and terrible and we we're we're not not exactly dreading going to Carroll Road, but it's not exactly a joyful experience.
00:31:00
Speaker
And someone who looks like their managerial career is going to be a short one and not have any trophies on it, isn't kind of blotted. Because if Farker had lost to the scum, or if Lambert had lost to the scum, or Alec Neal had lost to the scum, then all the great things they'd have done would be so would'd have that asterisk of, yeah, it's a shame about when we lost at Portman Road. you what mean? Like,
00:31:22
Speaker
they're all kind of, put they they they won something, they were successful and they never lost to the filth. When you've got someone who you think, I think the writing might be on the wall, I'd rather take it now.
00:31:33
Speaker
And then when we've got ourselves sorted out, maybe by April with the new person in charge, or it, think it's April, there is it was a return, return fixture. It is. Yeah, you're right. You're then thinking, I'd, you know, I'd much rather win one. I'll be in the ground for that one. So I'd much rather win that one anyway. But is, is that just self-protection talking do you or do you follow the logic of that?
00:31:53
Speaker
I can't follow your logic at all. i yeah I think we're all forgetting how awful it feels to lose to them lot. But look, we can't... have forgotten on it was so long ago. Exactly. Exactly. you know, kind of my child, or my eldest child who's finished her GCSEs and is about to do her A-levels was six months old when, you know, kind of when that happened. So this it's ridiculous, isn't it, how long it's been? um So yeah, there'll be a whole generation of Norwich fans that just have never tasted it.
00:32:22
Speaker
And it's... it's rank, you know, like I still remember the five nil Alex Matthew, you know, kind of hat trick, all of that kind of, it it it just feels just the worst.
00:32:33
Speaker
um But I don't think we can get away from, and this is my worry. I know I said on a pod, you know, kind of a few weeks ago that I felt like the sale of that man to them down the road in the manner that it happened.
00:32:48
Speaker
to me, still felt like that, you know, or it felt like a transition from us, because you know, or for us, you know, kind of becoming the junior partner in the relationship, you know, kind of, and and they are, they could potentially, you know kind of brag that they are the bigger club because they've nicked our second best player.
00:33:05
Speaker
Um, And then if they go and beat us, that's all they've got left. you know That's all they've got left to do, isn't it? They've been in the Premier League recently. they ah guess they're above us in the league now. I haven't dared look at the league table for a while because you know kind of it's just pretty grim.
00:33:20
Speaker
um I think that's that's the last thing that we have to kind of still just just hold tightly to. And if that goes, oh God, it's just going feel...
00:33:33
Speaker
It's going to feel whenever it does happen. And I think what Tom is saying is we already feel miserable and bad now. so oh i get his logic. I just i just i don't like it.
00:33:46
Speaker
It's going to happen and it it very well likely will happen this weekend because we can't keep not losing to them, particularly with the way we're playing.
00:33:59
Speaker
And I feel a bit like we just need to rip that bandaid off because it becomes for us even more stress. It's a stressful game anyway. And now it's like got that added pressure of, oh my God, we don't want to lose because we'll lose our record.
00:34:12
Speaker
It's almost more stressful because of that. I think you two are talking yourself into this. No, I'm not. i How good is it going to feel when we beat them? I've said this about the last four times we've played them and then somehow, miraculously, we haven't actually lost.
00:34:27
Speaker
So I hope to God that we don't. you know Genuinely, obviously, I hope we don't. But if we do, I think we'll have just ripped off that plaster and be like, right, let's just you know start again now. That's done. That's gone. It was brilliant while it lasted.
00:34:42
Speaker
We can't. We can't. keep doing it forever. It's going to have to happen. And I think it's, for me, it's better that it, I don't want it to happen.
00:34:54
Speaker
But things are miserable as they are now. I don't want it to happen in a season where actually we're doing really, really well. And it will just like... Yeah, that's what Tom's saying, isn't it? yeah I agree with Tom. I think it's like i think it's a chance to... um there's There's every chance that we go there and we ah grind out a 1-1. And you probably argue on form.
00:35:16
Speaker
It currently looks like a one one you know, because we're better away from home and we're not going to try and have the ball so we can't give it away. um So, you know, we've got this West Brom game first.
00:35:28
Speaker
If we can, if we, if they can pull something out and it will be interesting because we're now starting to look at performances like, are they playing for the manager? You know, when the manager is under scrutiny like this, you, you, there is an added bit of spice to, you know, watching the body language and thinking about, know, how hard are they running for him? And obviously they're putting bodies on the line for from a defensive point of view.
00:35:52
Speaker
But if they can be creative and if they can play um good quality football, I'm... and somehow get a ah a draw, but a draw with merit, you know, a draw with a good performance against West Brom.
00:36:08
Speaker
And then we extend the unbeaten run. Like, the the obviously, a win would be a huge spark, but even just extend the unbeaten run against Scum on Sunday, then this week could be the start of of the turnaround because I'm i'm not um'm not ready to say manning out as much as you know my friends Brad and many others and social media and lots people are saying Manning out, ah for the same reason that I can't describe to you exactly what his football looks like, because I'm not really convinced that they um not really convinced the Manning era has even started, really.
00:36:45
Speaker
I'm not sure we've actually really seen Manning ball yet, because it yeah so far we've just seen really disjointed performances. It's just foreplay. So, you know, I can't, and I'm ready for the the main event.
00:36:59
Speaker
and If this is foreplay, I'm putting more clothes on and and going out for the night. i like this is i mean i wouldn't be optimistic. with No, I'm not even going there. Yeah, I don't stretch that analogy any further. We've already talked about along come Norwich HR earlier this year.
00:37:15
Speaker
So, yeah, i can't like i I can't mentally go there, but yeah yeah i we've had we've had we've had a rubbish year in terms of some like real life stuff in our family in the last few months.
00:37:27
Speaker
And yeah know sometimes that does kind of help put games like Sunday, which is huge, it does put it into perspective and it does, you know, and if it will feel horrific if we lose, i mean, um I don't feel like I went to a school in Suffolk punt, right?
00:37:46
Speaker
Those losses in those kind of, there nice some Because some of them were really embarrassing, like self-inflicted, like rolling the ball under your goalie's legs. Like we were shocking in some of those games.
00:37:59
Speaker
It was horrific, horrendous. in it And I hated school. Couldn't like, it was a horrible time in my life. And my football team let me down and made people picking on me at school even worse. Right. It was horrendous, awful.
00:38:12
Speaker
So like i I get it. I get how bad football can be. But also, like i have just gotten, i think I've got enough perspective to turn the TV off because I'm not one of the faithful that will be there on this occasion to turn the TV off and go for a bike ride with the boys or go for a run or bake cake or whatever.
00:38:33
Speaker
just you know just Just start thinking about something else. I think that's the mindset that I'm in because, and this is crucial, because of the 16 years. And we they're never go they they can't win that on Sunday.
00:38:48
Speaker
They can't take that from us on Sunday. No, we'll always have that. Yeah. and And the chances of that ever being repeated between either team is extremely small because it's really so many coincidences and lucky.
00:39:03
Speaker
you know, outcomes that has ended up in that happening this long anyway. So what's most likely is we're going to go back into a pattern which is relatively regular in the dark. mean, even look at like Celtic and Rangers.
00:39:15
Speaker
Rangers keep nicking one off them every now and again. mean, obviously, current Rangers set up not not doing so well, although well done for getting win. Max Aarons getting the winner on the weekend. But like even in that where you've got relative dominance, City and United, they're they don't go like 10 years at a time like the underdogs every now and again nick one so what's most likely is we'll go back into where we might get four or five in a row and then it will and then the other one will nick one that's probably what's going to happen eventually yeah yeah and we'll we'll you know the chart until it gets to like four or five years it's not really worth seeking like
00:39:48
Speaker
Three games, three games. doesn't really work, does it, right? it's I think we're always going to have that over and that we had this period that we lived through as our utter dominance them in our shadow. and And it will always make me laugh that the one year it all came together for them and they got so many spawning red cards against them, so many lucky last-minute goals. like they Everything went for them that season that managed them to get up for that brief foray in the Premier League to then get embarrassing relegated and being shit.
00:40:17
Speaker
and Even then, even in their season where everything fell for them, they couldn't beat us. And if they win on Sunday, that won't change. That will still be funny that that happened.
00:40:27
Speaker
It will still be 16 years and life will still go on. The sun will still come up yeah in the morning. Exactly. And there are still so many other things outside football for us to focus on. Having said that, if we win, I'll be thinking and talking about nothing but football and I will just find ways and excuses of wearing Norwich City paraphernalia throughout the rest of that week.
00:40:49
Speaker
but i feel like that happened last the last time. we we were so gobsmacked that that they hadn't beaten us. The home game was the second game, wasn't it? Oh yeah, it was. home gamers yeah we were in wasn't it oh yeah wow we they still haven't done it of all seasons when they're absolutely flying they still like ah think we're all in absolute disbelief and i wore my Norwich City socks for like three days in a row, I think, just to like, I don't know.
00:41:16
Speaker
I just can't see it this time. Was that foreplay as well? was Right. kind of this so so Come on, Punt. Let's talk about guarantees then. Guarantees for West Brom.
00:41:29
Speaker
oh I guarantee there's going to be some booze from the Upper Barkley at some point. um'm I'm not there, so can I just say they're not coming from me. They're not going to be from you this time. They won't be audible if you do, Booth. Unless it's really loud. We'll get you on speakerphone and play it out to join in. I...
00:41:49
Speaker
um i I guarantee we won't see a cohesive style of play and that will probably tepidly sleek off into the night without any points.
00:42:03
Speaker
that's I mean, that's all I'm really... you know And actually, usually when I'm negative, we go and do a win. So, you know, let's I'll just try and dig myself into a misery pit and then Norwich will somehow just grab me and take me out of that and it'll be everything will be great.
00:42:17
Speaker
No, I don't know. like ah I feel really despondent about... the whole direction of travel at the moment. So, yeah, I think we're going to lose two one but Josh might score a goal, which would be nice because he hasn't had one since, what, end of August?
00:42:31
Speaker
Since he came back from America. Yeah. CBT, what are you saying? Well, I'm going to flip things and say, because I'm not going, they're probably going to pull a performance out of somewhere and actually, I don't know, magically turn things around.
00:42:49
Speaker
So some sort of weird freak result where we win 2-0. I mean, I'm just... Who scores? Who scores? Josh, obviously.
00:43:00
Speaker
And ah Harry Darling, header from a corner. Oh, lovely. That'd be nice. Because he is a darling. I think we'll win 4-0.
00:43:13
Speaker
One day it'll stick. i butt When we win 4-0, he won't have predicted it. We won't have podded that day. No. i also think we'll win 4-0 on Sunday. oh yeah and And all of a sudden, Manning Ball will start to click into place. The confidence will start to flow.
00:43:30
Speaker
um The players won't be scared to run out like Carroll Road because they'll just put four past the filth. um and Kovacevic will go viral for some kind of over-the-top and slightly ill-advised celebration at that shithole they call a ground.
00:43:45
Speaker
um But anyway, we did our best. I'm going to try and edit this together. Punt's internet has been abhorrent, um but I acknowledge you do exist. Claire, thank you for your time as well. And look, keep it in perspective. It's only a game of football unless we win.
00:44:02
Speaker
Mind you go.
00:44:29
Speaker
yeah I think it's the last three games for me, though. I think that's that it that block, I'm just like, whoa. like you know kind of Anything that preceded it, you can kind of put it down to, right, he's bedding in.
00:44:40
Speaker
We've had a couple of performances where we've looked doggy. We've defended okay. The benefit of the doubt against Coventry. It's felt all right. Because Coventry looked like such a good team. That was just whole other levels of of utter wank.
00:44:52
Speaker
Like, really. like let's Let's not dress it up. there's just Your fucking internet, John. I'm still here.
00:45:01
Speaker
We'll wait and see if okay if he comes back and I'll have to do an edit job on it. Oh, okay. This is the first time had actual problems. For fuck's sake. I think we just need to do a mini pod then. Don't know what you want to do.
00:45:15
Speaker
support a different team. Yeah. I mean that. Is that an awesome like ah Do you want to so you want to stop and start again?
00:45:26
Speaker
But like start again from where we've been and then hope that this all records. It's all right.