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"Long Throw Army" ACN Pod 148
915 Plays26 days ago
It's time to bid farewell to Manning. Nice bloke. Got a very very long run to turn it round. How are we feeling? Listen as we guarantee who the next head coach is...
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Transcript
Norwich City's Current Troubles
00:00:21
Speaker
Welcome to Long Come Norwich podcast, where faithful, fearless, fully disillusioned followers feel the failing fluctuations of the canaries. We'll fathom the frightful flaws focusing fully on this week's feeble, forgettable fixtures.
00:00:32
Speaker
The formidable, forlorn fact is, it's time to bid farewell to Manning.
00:00:40
Speaker
Claire, we got a corner flag. Are you sad, happy, relieved, or excited? God, imagine if I said I was sad. I was so relieved. I was so relieved. I was on the train back to London when I found out um John sent us a message in our little or WhatsApp group chat just saying he's gone. And I actually let out an audible gasp of joy, I think.
00:01:02
Speaker
And I was a little disappointed there wasn't a huge cheer on the train. but um I think I was actually in a carriage full of Leicester fans rather than
Matchday Experience and Team Performance
00:01:10
Speaker
Norwich fans. But I ah genuinely felt like a weight had lifted from my shoulders. I don't know if everyone else felt the same way because I was on that journey back just so demoralized.
00:01:22
Speaker
I just thought I cannot believe this is happening. What are we going to do? And i honestly didn't expect, I didn't expect the corner flag.
Managerial Decisions and Tactics
00:01:30
Speaker
I didn't expect it. So yeah. Well, utter really i'm I messaged you guys quite soon after kickoff, but opposite of that, quite soon after full time, just saying, i think it is going to happen.
00:01:43
Speaker
Because like it was it was the juxtaposition between the best Carrow Road had felt pretty much all season and when we were 1-0 up and we thought, oh, actually, we because we'd been we'd been with the the lads and we'd been singing with them and the fact that we had then gone on to score and play some all right stuff, and far from a brilliant performance, but still, point is, you know...
00:02:08
Speaker
Probably 2-2 would have been a fair result, as in ah up before the before we scored. Like the first half, but we had a couple of good chances each at halftime. So the fact that we had gone on and we had actually managed to to to take the lead, it felt so positive, potentially, for that to then be a capitulation and the game management to be so bad.
00:02:29
Speaker
And also the fact that he made such bad decisions that that actively kind of lost the game for us in such transparent way. I feel like he sabotaged it on purpose.
00:02:41
Speaker
ah the Did he sabotage it on purpose because he wanted to go because he couldn't cope anymore? I honestly wouldn't be surprised no because it was such a bad decision or decisions that he made at the Yeah, Pun, what about you? Are you you sort
Fanbase Reactions and Club Implications
00:02:55
Speaker
of similarly relieved? Like ah like you know the the inevitable finally finally happened?
00:03:01
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, ah but the difficulty for me is I'm now really torn on all of the what next. So, i mean, look, the the overwhelming majority of the fan base weren't actually singing for Manning to go no yesterday. it It was pretty much predominantly um directed at Napa.
00:03:21
Speaker
And look, we can say a lot of things about Liam Manning and his style and the fact that he's failed to get a tune out of his players. But I think we've said it on this podcast before. but A coach is only one part of the jigsaw.
00:03:37
Speaker
A head coach is obviously like a really big part of that
Evaluation of Liam Manning as Head Coach
00:03:40
Speaker
ah the puzzle. But at the same time, they have to have an environment that they're going to be able to flourish in. And Liam Manning has flourished or at least got par scores out of you know kind of jobs that he's done before and you know arguably has overachieved in jobs that he's done previously.
00:03:55
Speaker
So there's two trains of thought in that regard. Is it that actually given everything that he's he's had, you know kind of put in front of him over the last 12 months, is it just that, you know, he's ah he's a different individual who's forever been changed from, you know, his experiences?
00:04:11
Speaker
Or is it actually that he didn't have the right environment to, you know, to do the the best or to, you know, provide the the best of himself for Norwich? And I don't know, but
Potential Candidates for Head Coach
00:04:20
Speaker
you're right. It absolutely was on him yesterday, you know, kind of to to inexplicably go to a back three and then create that space in behind Kenny. And ah let's be fair to Kenny, right?
00:04:32
Speaker
because he he was badly exposed for those last 15, 20 minutes. Kenny's not a wingback. Kenny's not a left back. So to put him in that position when you know arguably Leicester's most dangerous player, um you know kind of down the right, had caused him a few problems already. It just felt so bad.
00:04:51
Speaker
you know kind of And look, I could see the Chris Gorin kind of hooking him because of fitness issues, you know kind of the the fact that they don't want him to go and get injured again, do i you given the layoff he'd had, that, fine.
00:05:05
Speaker
But the change in shape, the change in Makama coming a bit more central when he looked like he'd
Club Structure and Future Prospects
00:05:10
Speaker
had quite a bit of joy in wide areas. Well, he had. It didn't even look like he had. It just felt... i mean, everyone in the ground was just like, what's he doing? ah you know Are we protecting this? Because the point was no good to him anyway, really.
00:05:22
Speaker
Would he have got sacked had we have drawn that game? Maybe not. i don't know. But a point was no good to Norwich. A point was no good to Leicester. So it's like, well, le let's go for it. Let's go and get three.
00:05:34
Speaker
But and to answer your question, i am relieved, but it is it's kind of tinged with... anxiety and excitement, because it's the start of a new era. you know kind of it's It's always fun to speculate about a new head coach, but also when that new head coach or manager comes in, it's fun to you know kind of get on that that journey with them.
00:05:56
Speaker
But it's just that level of anxiety is around, is Colney what it needs to be in order for a manager to to be able to put his or her imprint on this playing squad?
00:06:08
Speaker
Do we think that the... the immediate quarter flags have all been put out. Might there be one more in this international break?
00:06:20
Speaker
I think that's it. I think that's it. I think Napa will maybe be given one more bite of it in terms of selecting a head coach.
00:06:31
Speaker
Because, ah you know, like, otherwise, Atanasio, like, he's sharp cookie, like, you know, kind of, isn't he really, you know, kind of in terms of all the interviews he's done, I think it's the summer that we're looking at for him from him. And someone actually speculated to me, you know, they were messaging me earlier today and said, oh, do you think we'll just try and bring someone in until the end of the season and then it'll be, you know, everyone's kind of gone, you know, in the summer. And I was like, i don't know, don't know.
00:06:57
Speaker
Let's look at the runners and riders then. and There's some really odd names in there. and though You always find that with with any and kind of head coach search. Brendan Rodgers.
00:07:10
Speaker
This is it the second favourite Brendan Rodgers. How the hell's Brendan Rodgers? He's really high up as well. He's the second favourite at three to one. Yeah. And you think, I mean, presumably we all know how these things, you know, how these things are kind of cynically put together, but someone must have put some money on for him to be above Michael Carrick. And, you know, Russell Martin is a lazy person. There's no way they're going Russ. Yeah, hopefully. But that is a lazy person's assumption.
00:07:39
Speaker
and Daniel Farker obviously losing again today. We're recording this on on Sunday as we as we tend to. and you know i i can't believe that he would he would want to come back. and
Squad Abilities and Tactical Concerns
00:07:50
Speaker
i can't believe i mean For a start, he's he's not currently unemployed.
00:07:54
Speaker
Carlos Corberan is then the next one. Then it goes Gerrard Solskjaer, Robbie Keane. So now it's just sort of 90s and noughties football players. and Then there's people like Eric and Ten Hag.
00:08:07
Speaker
So Ralph Hassan-Huttle. Hang on. Did you just say Eric Ten Hag? Yeah, he's 20 to Fuck off. but like then yeah So your favourite, Dave Chaloner, is 25 to 1. And I think he's on too much of a good thing. I don't think there's any way we'd be able to poach him. like We would have had to have... we would have had to I think
Club-Fan Relationship and Communication
00:08:30
Speaker
we could get him out.
00:08:31
Speaker
I think we could get him out. And the reason that I think we could get him out is I think that when... when I mean, not that I think the club would take a gamble on him, if I'm honest, in terms of Dave Chaloner. But... um But I think when managers look at jobs, they look at ceilings of clubs.
00:08:45
Speaker
And our ceiling is way, way higher than Stockport County's. So, you know, he's done a phenomenal job with them. um You know, and and was he got eight promotions on his CV or something stupid? You know, kind of that is not to be sniffed at. But I think, you know, any manager, if you look at it, you go, well, look, can I keep them up?
00:09:02
Speaker
The answer to that is yes. And then he's got a bit of money. You know, any any new head coach has got bit of money and in the window who's Yeah, Norwich's ceiling is huge. I knew that you i knew that you would you'd want to bring up Chaloner because obviously you did actually mention him like earlier in there earlier in the season anyway.
00:09:20
Speaker
but So I didn't know him at all. So I thought I'd do a little bit of research on him. the thing that i Have you seen his long throws on YouTube? Please tell me you've seen his long throws on YouTube. No, and that
Reflections on Past Managerial Appointments
00:09:30
Speaker
wouldn't be a plus.
00:09:30
Speaker
but They're huge, but... That wouldn't be a plus for me. and And also, we don't have anyone who can do long throws. We have Chris Gorham, who can throw it only slightly further than me. They're not great, are they? No, and we're lining up for... Throw some quite high up in the air, but not very far. you're going to do long throws, it's got to get to the six-yard box, or you'd be better off just... Of course it does, yeah. You're right. But so in terms of attacking philosophy, he's got this steamroll approach. If you read about this or seen this. So there's a couple of YouTube videos on it. And the whole steamroll philosophy is basically to have be more aggressive, more front foot and effectively just get ahead in games and basically kill games off quickly.
00:10:11
Speaker
and which sounds good. The problem is and he doesn't, you know, in terms of the the the knocks on him is he has a kind of Christmas
Choosing the Right Manager for the Future
00:10:20
Speaker
tree formation, apparently three, four, two, one.
00:10:23
Speaker
and And it relies heavily on aggressive wingbacks, which we know full well. One, okay, yes, we have got an injury crisis at the moment, but we we've we've already had formations this season fail because we don't have wingbacks. And that was obviously one of the things that um was levelled Manning. One of the reasons that Manning wasn't able to do what he did at Bristol City was because he didn't have wingbacks.
00:10:44
Speaker
and And you've just mentioned... do you think that's not that we don't have wingbacks, though? Or do you think it's because, actually, when we got into attacking areas just under Manning, we've just looked so very, very poor. Like yesterday, you say about like creating chances.
00:10:58
Speaker
I don't think we created, that short of Oscar's you know kind of snapshots and you know kind of maybe low percentage chances I don't think we created much in terms of actual clear-cut shot on goal.
00:11:10
Speaker
But what we do, and I think Norwich have been quite good at it this season, actually, is getting ourselves into openings or opportunities. And then our final ball just been really poor. That's where I think we've been missing. We haven't been able to, you know, maybe that's a lack of a creative player.
00:11:26
Speaker
Maybe that's a lack of proper structure to you know create those chances. I don't know the answer to that. But I don't necessarily think it's been on the wingbacks because actually Jack Stacey as a wingback at this level is pretty decent. As I've said on this pod before, think he can cross very well. But you know in terms of actually getting us...
00:11:44
Speaker
further forward a little bit i actually thought of your he's all right i actually thought of your criticism of stacy's crossing when fisher hammered the ball at kenny knocked him over like it was that was brilliant exactly i just like we you know there's there's that old adage of it being frustrating that you can't clear the first man at corner when you can't clear the first man at your own cross like that's really and and the own man is you in fish in fisher's defense where the why the fuck was kenny there like I mean, what's he doing popping up in the box from left back? He's dead on that little run. Because, again, he was he was he was trying to be a one-man team again.
00:12:19
Speaker
and I thought he was absolutely excellent. And then, as you said, just completely exposed in the last 15 minutes when he sent on, and unfortunately, so far in what we've seen, a very poor centre-back.
00:12:33
Speaker
and And the decisions that he made... You're not having McConville, are you? No, I think he's terrible. I'm not either. I don't think he's right. I'd be delighted to i' be delighted for him to become a Norwich Stalwart over 10 years. But um so far, don't rate him at all.
00:12:47
Speaker
the um the the ah But the message that that sends... Um, one, it absolutely stinks of data and premeditation. So it absolutely stinks that Chris Corham is coming off on 70 because we've decided that's what, that's how long he can, know it's an international break. The boy can get tired.
00:13:04
Speaker
You know, none he's not going to, he doesn't have to play. He was knackered. she could, It's the risk of injury. I get it. It's the risk of injury rock more than, oh, look, we can just flog in for another 20 minutes. But the point is, if you're going to do that, don't then also take McCalmer off and don't then bring my standard back. Or move McCalmer. the point is yeah shifting Oscar as well. yeah Or move Chris Gorin or change formation say, Chris Gorin played just off so Sarge. and i I do not want you to get involved. Don't go looking for the ball. Just play off anything that McCalma knocks down or Sarge knocks down.
00:13:34
Speaker
Do something. that and Because if you take both of your two most attacking options off and bring on a centre-back, the message you're telling everyone in that... and stadium, including all of the Leicester players, is we don't think we're going to get more than one, so trying to stick at one. right and Anyone who's seen Norwich play this season knows that that is not a policy that's going to work. We had to score that second goal when we were one them up And when we were running up and and Vlad was killing time, they were singing, you're not fit to wear the shirt, the Leicester fans, they were singing, they want umpteen names of people out.
00:14:11
Speaker
And we were like, and the Barclay was up and jumping and and the drum was going and it felt great. we had to get that second goal that if we'd have got that second goal, then that maybe ends three or four, you know, because, but we just didn't have that quality to what, to what you said, the punt, we just dither, we just dither at the edge of the box.
00:14:31
Speaker
and And we're not going to get any luck because when you're down the bottom and your confidence is low, you you just don't make, make enough your own luck. And to be fair, I think we used up all the luck that Chris Gorham's shot, you it deflected back to him and then the keeper was on because we're, we ah yeah wed sit in a Barclay, obviously, we're right behind the the shot and the keeper's basically unsighted. that's why it gets That's why he gets beaten at his near post because he doesn't realise that the shot's come again.
00:14:55
Speaker
And so we maybe we used up all our luck actually getting the first goal. but But Claire, I think, that that is that was the reason I was so convinced he was finally going to be let go because you've said obviously maybe sabotage maybe subconsciously there is an element of that but we
00:15:15
Speaker
tactically the number of times this season the other team will change something and that will be enough like one tiny little tweak to create more space so yeah so yesterday sends a player on he scores almost immediately because no one picks him up it's you know the ball loops up in the air from Topic you know doing some good defensive I thought Topic was good I thought Medici was good yesterday there were some all right performances but yeah it's yeah there was not there was no left there was no road left I felt a little bit, well, I don't want to say I felt sorry for Liam Manning, but the team that started and the team that lasted 70 minutes were doing a ah decent job.
00:15:55
Speaker
And if they had all been able to stay on the pitch for 90 minutes in that formation, i think we could have won. um But there was no way that that Chris Gardner was going to manage 90 minutes. He hasn't played 90 minutes at all.
00:16:09
Speaker
let alone having just come back from a long injury layoff. And he had put his all in um and he was absolutely knackered. So I think he left him on as long as possible. He didn't do his usual 60-minute substitutes, which was was interesting.
00:16:26
Speaker
ah think he left him on as long as he could. But it was more yeah is more the way that the players that he took off and the ones that he put on just made no sense to anybody. And we all could see it coming. Like, why change the formation at the back?
00:16:39
Speaker
I genuinely think he he wanted out. Honestly, i would ah would not be surprised if he did it on purpose because if we'd got a point or won that game, would we be sitting sitting here talking about him having been sacked?
00:16:54
Speaker
So it's like, i ah it was so lovely to feel Carrowed back to its bouncing self after we scored that first goal. And the crowd really were with the team yesterday. It was quite surprising how much we were. um I was, you know, generally quite surprised by that.
00:17:09
Speaker
But I just think if we had won, maybe it wouldn't have actually ended the way it has. So maybe the fact we lost in the long term has done us a favour, even though it felt so awful to lose that game. So I'm kind of mixed on what actually happened yesterday.
00:17:27
Speaker
i feel I feel sad about it and I feel sorry for him because I do think he's a decent dude and I do think he has had some rotten luck. He's been really unlucky with injuries so and he has been really unlucky with quality players missing chances.
00:17:43
Speaker
um And he's been unlucky that so many things have have gone against him. and And like you said in the last pod punt, you know, it's another one, it's another game where 15 minute spell or a five minute spell costs us.
00:17:55
Speaker
And, know, on another week when your luck is in or in a season when your luck is generally in, which I think we had a lot of under Wagner, for example, like we, the reason we got the playoffs under Wagner was we, those sorts of games we won.
00:18:07
Speaker
We won the games where we weren't quite at it or when actually when they did have a ah spell, when we were under pressure, they hit the post instead of scoring or whatever, you know? So I do feel that he, he, he was unfortunate.
00:18:19
Speaker
I think if we if ah agree, if we if we win yesterday against Leicester, I think he stays. And I'm not necessarily sure that that does mean a bad thing because maybe, ah you know, maybe with a bit of momentum and a bit of confidence, then he could have got to tune out the players. But, we we you know, we don't have to we don't have to worry now that that that's the case because we are going to get this new this new start. So we've got some questions, haven't we, punt? So let's get some listening questions because the last couple of pods, we haven't necessarily got to them all and we've just talked around them. So we haven't, yeah, we haven't been the best at that.
00:18:53
Speaker
and We will start with our good friend, Mr. Ben Stokes, the robot canary, and he's ah he is asking, next manager, firefighter or start the next project?
00:19:06
Speaker
I think it makes me want to be sick in my mouth if someone says project to me again. Like I can't. I cannot believe they're not going seasoned, proven. Like they effectively thought they were going with proven manager and with Manning.
00:19:21
Speaker
I think they've got to break the bank and put their money where their mouth is. And I think they're going to have to maybe overpay to get someone who we wouldn't typically get. Because I think they need... What do you think that looks like?
00:19:36
Speaker
Like a Carrick? and I think more proven than that. I think bigger than that. Yeah. Do you really? And I think... Brendan Rodgers. No, I think older than that. I think older than that. I think... Neil Warnock.
00:19:50
Speaker
i think older than that i think and neil warnock ah fuck I don't think it would be Warnock but I do think it might be someone off that ilk like genuinely like ah like like martin like Martin O'Neill's going into you youre advocating for Big Sam is that where this boy is going to be no I'm not at all No, I know you're not advocating. I'm saying you think that's the direction we might go. think it's going to be someone who is in their 50s or 60s. I think it's going to be someone who has been there, seen it done, it loads and loads and loads. and that Because that's going to be what Atanasio is going to want to hear. He's not going to want to hear, he's done well at Oxford, he's done well at MK Dons, and you know he's done one set of playoffs. I think he wants someone who's been around the block 100 done...
00:20:31
Speaker
20 seasons in charge and actually has seen four or five different relegation battles or or a couple of different relegation battles. Now, I don't know what candidate that necessarily means, but I think if it was Brendan Rogers, which I can't believe it's going to be, but if it was someone like Brendan Rogers, for example...
00:20:47
Speaker
then the way that that that person would get the gig would be on the basis of, ah you know, I've been involved in this relegation battle. I've been involved in multiple promotions. I've been involved in, you know, Europe. and And, you know, so I've coached players who are international.
00:21:02
Speaker
I think that's what he's going to want to hear rather than someone who hasn't, to your point, on ceiling punt, someone who hasn't hit their ceiling yet. and What do you think, Claire?
00:21:13
Speaker
I think we need someone that's going to be more of a firefighter than than than a ah project right now. We are in serious shit. There's no doubting that. We need somebody that can really grab us and quickly drag us out of this mire that we are in before we even consider what's going to happen after that.
00:21:32
Speaker
So, I mean... I know there's a lot people poo-pooing it, but I i genuinely wouldn't be disappointed with having Gary O'Neill in, i think. Yeah, same. He's dragged people out from the bottom of of of the leagues before, and in the Premier League as well. ah he's like He's managed like 100 Premier League games, which...
00:21:53
Speaker
you can't exactly 100 looked at that exactly 100 he's a proper manager he's a proper manager and he's using yeah the passion and the fight and he used to play for norwich so he knows the club already and i think he could really come in and like gee the players up because i still don't believe that these are shit players i think there are some decent players there they just need some confidence brought back into them and a manager that knows what he's doing I think we've got a really good front three.
00:22:18
Speaker
I think we've got really good front three. Yeah, we really have. And I think Oscar could be, I think we could be talking about Oscar potentially like the way we talk about, maybe better than science, maybe like a Sarah in future.
00:22:32
Speaker
but he that Some of the stuff he did, even yesterday, like the dribbles, that heat that lad has got real ability and talent. And he seems to be. He's flourishing with regular football. He's maybe the one player that hasn't regressed and he's maybe the one player who actually seems to be gaining confidence and doing more and being willing to run more.
00:22:52
Speaker
I think he could be unreal. That's purely because he's being played. Put him in 10. Put him in a 10 behind. but i mean i think this the squad that we've got, especially with the fullback issues, the squad we've got is crying out to play the diamond. Absolutely crying out for it.
00:23:06
Speaker
Because we've got a couple of players in Kviska and Schwartow who would work really, really well behind McCarma and your boy Sargent. and So I think O'Neill, I would personally just be, and it's not faux humility, what would he want to come? mean, he's just turned down.
00:23:27
Speaker
going back in the Premier League. Did he interview last time? He was in the final shortlist. Yeah,
00:23:34
Speaker
But that was before he had the opportunity to go the Premier League and he turned it down. So if he's waiting for a Premier League... Yeah, but there's reasons why he turned Wolves down. He was talking about that last night. don't think he felt like he should go back there.
00:23:46
Speaker
I mean, I would be, he he's who I said earlier in the season that if we could, if we could get him, that would be great. Carrick, I actually did a bit of a, this morning I was um looking through the the various different candidates and and Carrick is know relatively high up and it would that would be a logical one. Although i do think he's in the same but boat as Manning. He's not coached enough different teams and I don't think that's going to be what they go for. But I was looking at the, I specifically was looking for, and I was ah sort of doing deep research on, know, GPT and the reasons for people being sacked at the times they were sacked as in the people that we could potentially get.
00:24:24
Speaker
So like your Steve Coopers in yeah and um, and your Brendan Rogers and your, uh, um, Gary O'Neill's, and I specifically wanted to read the mitigating factors. Now, all of the talk and I watched, I ended up watching a ah and listening on the dog walk about 20 minutes of a borough and podcast that I hadn't heard of before, but it was very good.
00:24:45
Speaker
and That was released just after Carrick was let go from borough. And they were talking about the tactical inflexibility. And honestly, they could have been talking about Liam Manning. Like they were talking about how this opposition made one change. And they said it was like, and what was the phrase? It was brilliant. It was along the lines of, and it's like it's like going to a cinema and then realizing 10 minutes in, not only have you already seen this movie, but you like you can recite how it ends because you've seen it so many times.
00:25:14
Speaker
And you're really you're really annoyed that you've turned up and watched the same film again. And I was like, yeah, he could be talking about Manning. So again, um that's just one podcaster's opinion. And that was, but that was why Carrick ended up being let go after three years. It was because they kept losing games from winning positions. That was kind of the core thing.
00:25:31
Speaker
and Whereas O'Neill, the mitigating factors around him have been unbelievable disruption, and massive player turnover, and And so I don't know, i've looked of all the different candidates, for me, he's the one that makes the most sense. But like I say, I do think they might they might go abroad.
00:25:53
Speaker
They might go, there's a 55-year-old who's managed a couple of international teams and managed a few people in Germany and a few people in Switzerland. mean, like a Roy Hodgson 10 years ago. Do you think they go for, do you think they go for, if they're Or do you think a coach of that age works under a sporting director model?
00:26:12
Speaker
But certainly not a British coach of that age, I wouldn't say would up for working under ah an SD. They would if Mark Atanasio said this SD isn't going to be here for much longer. So don't worry too much about what he says. yeah that is yeah yeah and And that's my concern in terms of this appointment.
00:26:27
Speaker
And I think Gary O'Neill maybe fits this profile is I think you probably need oh God, to use some kind of horrible business phrase, but like you need you almost need a self-starter, someone who can work in spite of what's going on and maybe in spite of the sporting director and is someone who has the gravitas and personality to go in and actually motivate this group.
00:26:53
Speaker
Because I think there is there's a wider talking point around the fact that we haven't really got many leaders in the dressing room. and And so the head coach, you know, almost de facto has to become like, you know, kind of a a real strong leader, you know, kind of. And I ah think about it, right? Like who who have we got in terms of a leadership group?
00:27:14
Speaker
You've got Kenny, you've got Sarge, you've got Darling. I'd say that's a fair few though, isn't it? Like, In terms of three for senior leadership, like say one or two of them get injured. But also, and you know and I think, look, this isn't me digging out Kenny by any means. This is this is not me hating on Kenny.
00:27:31
Speaker
But Kenny has been ah essentially our captain on the pitch because I know Hanley's been club captain for a couple of these seasons. But he's been captain on the pitch for this period of massive regression. And I think Kenny...
00:27:44
Speaker
I don't necessarily think Kenny's a captain. i think Kenny's like a really loyal admiral, admiral, you know, that goes alongside a skipper and can be like a decent vice captain and can be another voice on the pitch. But i don't necessarily see him as a captain commander.
00:28:01
Speaker
um Jacob Wright's a captain type, wasn't he? That's when you saw that interview. That's where they billed him, didn't they? Get him back on the pitch. And McConville as well. Well, I think and but McConville needs to be able to kick a football in the right direction before he can be captain.
00:28:16
Speaker
um I think... Rory, Rory. and i think it might be a lovely lad, but so far he's been abysmal. But then, know, to your point on Oscar, you know, he's been thrown on, he's played patches and stuff, and his only sort of real start, yeah with unfortunately, everyone shat their pants.
00:28:33
Speaker
So going back to the going back to the question about Firefighter or whatever the other one was, Project, it can't it can't be Project because we're in a relegation battle. So it is it has to be...
00:28:45
Speaker
it has to be a two and a half year deal, but the half year is actually laden with incentives to, to make sure that this is still a championship football club next year.
00:28:56
Speaker
and I, I, I think that the kind of impact someone like O'Neill could have, could get us out of the relegation zone within three games. And then we stay there.
00:29:08
Speaker
as I mean, the other thing is, um, cause he's also, he's not super young. He's not, you know it's not Jack Wilshere. It's not, uh, you know, it's not Wayne Rooney or whatever. He's 42, isn't he? That is super young. Let's just just be clear. That is super young. He's older than me, just.
00:29:23
Speaker
i But the point is, it's not it isn't his first isn in his first gig. And, you know, like you say, 100 games already. and And he's really erudite and he's articulate and he was a double-eyed bastard on the pitch. I do think he might be able to... He's likeable. Yeah.
00:29:38
Speaker
yeah well he might fix the nice the too nice too nice stuff so you know manning kept saying i was too nice and too soft yeah but like i the the whole thing about us being too nice and i just thought but manning you you're so passive on the touchline like you're so you're so passive and you and you in every press conference which i don't necessarily think is a bad thing which we talked about previously from a mental health point of view and from a perspective point of view I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing for for football supporters to hear their coach say do you know what actually my my wife still loves me my son still loves me there are bigger things I don't know how no one knows how long we've got which is what he said a couple of days ago and you know so I don't look too far ahead that's not bad rhetoric for for football fans to hear but not when you've lost seven in a row like so maybe save that for when form is up and down like just you know maybe don't say it's not what you want want the manager to say exactly like it's going to lift anyone No, exactly. Say say it when... A good time to say that is just before and just before a game that means you might go between 12th and 13th.
00:30:41
Speaker
Don't say it in a relegation battle and don't say it when you're about to go into a playoff semifinal, right? Like at that point, the messaging needs to be nothing else is as as important as this next match, right?
00:30:52
Speaker
So I feel like Gary O'Neill would get that right. Give us another question, Pump.
00:30:59
Speaker
I just want to ask this question because it just made me chuckle, really. This is from Pad10Rock on Instagram, and he asks, how long before our dickhead fan base wants Manning's replacement out?
00:31:12
Speaker
um Well. and and I mean, I think that's, you know, laden with, um you know, maybe Pad10 didn't want Manning to go and maybe you thought of it it was the crowd's fault. I mean, that made me chuckle because,
00:31:27
Speaker
how patient were the fan base in terms of like actually, you know, the Leicester game and the whole game before that. Like this isn't, this isn't a crowd that's turned on the head coach in game.
00:31:40
Speaker
I think he's been incredibly fortunate that we haven't turned on the head coach. all right. You've had a little bit of Liam Manning and football is shit. um You know, but, Actually, that's there's always been from a losing position. that's no always been one It has been a bit shit. Weren't they even singing Liam Manning's Green and Yellow Army at some point? They were.
00:31:56
Speaker
At Niel and Niel. Have they really that yesterday? I think they did. At Niel and they did. But but because yeah because we were there were players trying to run forward and and whilst it wasn't it wasn't a brilliant performance, but again, everything has to come in the... We were so desperate to see something from the players that...
00:32:15
Speaker
And we, it did feel like it was home win was coming and it did feel like the, the one thing you've got to say about Manning is I don't think he lost the players at any point. So if, if they, if there is anything that comes out, cause sometimes you hear it a month or two afterwards, especially, you Christmas party season. So, you know, a couple of people maybe go out, have a drink or two and and say it's more than they should.
00:32:36
Speaker
I would be surprised if it came out that it turns out that actually Sarge and Nat were lying when they said that we're still playing for him. Because right up until yesterday, pretty much everyone in of of a yellow and green persuasion was all singing from the same hymn sheet until the equaliser.
00:32:52
Speaker
Right. I mean, the and until the McGonville sub, there was some booze because it was just like, what are you doing? and Yeah. So I don't know. ah We're not a dickhead fan base. We are.
00:33:04
Speaker
We're too nice as a fan base. No. And i but I wonder whether the question is more around if I'm being fair to to pad. um maybe the their feeling was that Manning isn't the issue or Manning wasn't the issue. and labour you know kind i I do think that he will he could end up managing in the Premier League one day. i think he could end up having a very, very successful championship.
00:33:28
Speaker
career. I wish we were a YouTube podcast just because Claire's face when you see it. No, you can see it. I think you can see because he's done it at Bristol City, right?
00:33:40
Speaker
yeah He could... But they weren't that big of fans of him either. Well... really? It was a 68 point hole or was it something? It was like with the low like one of the lowest ever points holes to get him in the playoffs. I don't think he's got enough about him. I can see him winning promotion at another club.
00:33:55
Speaker
I can see that happening. He he really he really did have so many things against him. I think he's weak. I don't think he's got enough about him he ah The players may well have been with him, but there was absolutely no way he was ever going to turn this around.
00:34:10
Speaker
cannot lose seven home games in a row and recover from that. And he hasn't got the personality to that. can't believe he's ever going to be in that situation again. but it basically and And that's the thing. It's about environment, isn't it? It's always about environment. He's coming...
00:34:26
Speaker
I think he he probably at some point was like, oh, shit, I've been sold a pup here. yeah but what What have I actually been told? you know kind of What promises have been made that are just absolute nonsense? Well, we might. that might And there probably was quite a lot of That might come out. i mean, he because he he is coming out of this looking really bad, right? So he's he he he will absolutely he will have a, in a month or a week couple of weeks time, he'll pop up somewhere and and get make sure his story is heard. But completely agree.
00:34:52
Speaker
I completely agree with Claire that he's not that guy who's going to fix it and turn it around and be able to motivate a dressing room. You know, kind of it it just doesn't appear to be that type of guy. So he has to come in maybe when it's it's stable. and But the answer to the answer to the crash of a club to answer pad 10 rock, whatever his name is.
00:35:10
Speaker
and And thank you for listening. And thank you sending a question. and I think the answer is it really depends on how how good the appointment is because if you know we're going to want the we're going to want the replacement to be replaced when we are in a sit when we're in a period of time when um we can't see that it's going to turn to Claire's point like we we when we get to a point where there is no way that this is going to be resolved I think we've shown that we're willing to to to be patient through um a bad run of form if there are any kind of indicators that you can hang your hat on as something turning around the the thing that this is what we said yesterday he gave us zero moments
00:35:54
Speaker
That's what he had. He gave us nothing. so previous managers, they've all given us something that you can hang on to. I want to ask you nothing i want ask you a question on them on, on, on, on going back to the candidates. so I im meant to ask it earlier.
00:36:06
Speaker
So we sort of scoffed at it previously. do you think they will ah interview Russ? Oh God. i don't think there's any chance then they even talk to him.
00:36:19
Speaker
Okay. Interesting. Can you imagine if they announced it Russ? I think it's the total wrong time for him to come back. And also I think his his philosophy needs to needs rethinking and in the same way that I think Manning's next job. i mean, Russ will get another job.
00:36:39
Speaker
and Manning will get another job. yeah and But both them both of them have need to need to fundamentally change. Manning needs to change his approach in press conferences, the way he communicates with the fans and and like that whole communication thing in his next club.
00:36:55
Speaker
Because similar to our, you know, the the whatever club it is, you know, Hull or, you know, Bolton, whatever it is where he rocks up in a year or 18 months time or six months time.
00:37:07
Speaker
and their fan base is going to go, hang on, why why were the Norwich fans so so keen to get rid of him? They might watch some old you know press conferences and be like, what, this guy, this zombie that like can't kind of get any character or life into his interviews.
00:37:22
Speaker
and And so he's going to have to be a bit more bombastic and a bit more you know, out there ah because otherwise he's not going to be able to to to win win a fan base over early doors. And likewise, Russ has got to not be as is inflexible that he's going to play pure football with players who aren't good enough to play it.
00:37:38
Speaker
Like he's got to. Also, I think with Russ though, if we we were talking about this, the kind of the personality and someone with the you know, that that kind of gravitas to come into a dressing room and command it. I think he's probably got that that in fairness to him. that's why i think it's not That's why I think it's not. That's why I think they might interview him because of the the need to stitch together. lot of language in Napa's stuff because he's he's done some more stuff today.
00:38:02
Speaker
And there's a lot of language about um needing to repair, you know, the relationship and communication stuff. So I wonder, but that's what. And Russ is good at that. He is good. And I wonder if that, I wonder if him and O'Neill are there for members, at least the long list.
00:38:18
Speaker
i don't think he would I don't think he would interview though because i think he would I think he still, probably rightly, would expect too many people to to not want him. i think he has to i think norwi I think there are Norwich fans that that hold a grudge against him and need him to go and win something somewhere before they'd want him to come and coach Norwich. the fact that he's had such a horrible...
00:38:39
Speaker
horrific time at Rangers I mean look at I don't think coming into a club that's scratching at the bottom now it's just just not the right fit at this all time psychologically he's probably not in the right places you so you look at the look at what we were doing yesterday kicking goal kicking goal kicks long every single one So, you know, we... and That was quite fun. Manning has realised... Well, Manning has basically said we we... One way we can stop giving goals away is by giving them the ball at the edge of our box.
00:39:11
Speaker
So how do I bypass that? I just kick it to McCormick. Minkovacovic did try to give the ball away a few times. Yeah, just held on to it. Just keep us on the edge of our seats. Well, I actually thought that's that's one of the areas I thought...
00:39:23
Speaker
and I didn't get annoyed once at Medic for nearly giving a goal away. And one of the reasons was he wasn't being expected to play that kind of football. Can you imagine Rustball with these defenders trying to play Rustball? Holy moly. Can you imagine Cordova trying to play Rustball? My goodness me.
00:39:40
Speaker
I think Cordoba would be the most successful out of all of them. He's too overconfident. No, he's too overconfident. ah a Bristol City away. ah Bristol City away. No, Bristol City away. himself No, two goals. We lost to them because of Cordoba that night.
00:39:54
Speaker
and Right, next question.
00:39:57
Speaker
This isn't a question, but i i I just wanted to acknowledge it and actually just ask for the collective podder's memory of, you know, the statement that has been made here. and So this is Gav um on Insta, Gav Inc.
00:40:09
Speaker
Gav Inc. 7. I wonder if this is just bots now. The 7th of the incorporated Gavins. of the yes Yes, Mr. Buxton. Yeah, thank you. um Two people on the pod previously saying Manning needed until Christmas. We would have been down.
00:40:23
Speaker
Have any of us said we need to give Manning until Christmas? Or was that a long time later? I did have a moment where I said maybe we'd give him until Christmas, but that was before we lost the next five games in a row. So to be fair. I also think...
00:40:38
Speaker
they might We've all been fairly unanimous for the last couple of pods. yeah and i changed my chain I think after the Atanasio interview, we might have said that he might get until Christmas because that was that was sort of the rhetoric that came from there.
00:40:54
Speaker
But I mean, you know, yeah, you can't, look, if you're going to go, you're going to go bringing up stuff that we've said, even two pods ago, I mean, some of the nonsense I come out with, back to the start when we said we were going to get promoted. Well, I still think, I still think the squad is, I still think the squad,
00:41:13
Speaker
oh my is good enough with the right yeah manager and without injuries, without substantial injuries and with the right coach, I do still think that Sarge, Kviska and Makama could score enough goals between them to get to get us promoted but you've got to be Dave Chaloner is also a qualified physio so he could come in and do two jobs oh nice nice research the sports science that they all just need to go they they need to completely rip that out and if I'm Gary O'Neill coming into the club yeah
00:41:48
Speaker
then I'm just saying i the availability issues are horrendous. and And again, funnily enough, that was another knock on the Carrick era at Borough. Loads, like player availability was a massive problem and there was suspicion around over-training and not having enough rest days or whatever.
00:42:04
Speaker
Now, you can't train by laptop. You can't. Sometimes you have to have that human element of and reading whether or not a player's workload is too much and actually giving them a break and and making sure that they they get back. Because it feels to me that we are being, we're basically, the club is being run by spreadsheet.
00:42:25
Speaker
And that's why you're getting, maybe that's why you're getting the injuries and also why you're getting the brain dead, you know, comms in terms of um but the announcement around the stadium stuff and and the way that they've they've handled kind of this, that how silent Napa has been.
00:42:43
Speaker
um Apart from making the club statements that he has to make. So like he has to say something in the reports. Although interestingly, Nick Masita was on Canary Call um after the game on Saturday, spoke brilliantly, fantastic journalist.
00:42:56
Speaker
and And he said that there's a real, he he he actually thought there was a real apathy. And I thought that was interesting that he thought he was quite, there was he felt apathy at Carrow Road.
00:43:09
Speaker
um And I was like, nah, that was as good as it's been for a while. like yeah it was of like Yeah, that was actually really quite good. So maybe maybe our own expectations have now gone so low as to what a good atmosphere is that actually five minutes of singing...
00:43:26
Speaker
Um, but anyway, yeah, we we'll see. I mean, like I really struggle with these, with these things and I just, I really hope that it's settled really quickly because I, I find it so distracting that, you know, my, my precious football club but is sort of, I mean, just sort of rudderless. There's no coach in charge.
00:43:46
Speaker
I don't know. i don't know who my leader is in terms of my football bit of my life. Mind you, Southampton haven't. And they've won the last two games since sacking Will still without having a manager in charge yet. So I think even just that action... Can we hire their caretaker then?
00:44:03
Speaker
um Just talking about Manning ah you know and and that lack of communication and and the fact there's been that void... he's going to have to do press, isn't he? you know kind of he's He's now about to appoint a new head coach.
00:44:14
Speaker
well You mean Napa? What would you guys want to He said Manning. Yeah. what would Oh, sorry sorry. Yeah, that's just me. um It's been a long week. But what in terms of Napa, what would you want to hear from him in his press now?
00:44:28
Speaker
like what What questions are there that are unanswered? ah He has to say, so he has to give some color around what is going to be different. Why is it going to be different on the third time?
00:44:40
Speaker
Because so far it is like the um stuff in there. that was another thing Masita said. Just put the accounts out. you don You don't have to do a glossy PDF. like you don't have to like there There's no legal requirement. That can just be a spreadsheet.
00:44:54
Speaker
I think there's a legal requirement to make certain statements, isn't there, in your annual report? Probably not the sporting director. I don't know how much of it in terms of the sporting merit stuff. It's a financial thing. I defer to Nick Mashman. He's much more likely to know that than us. His point was you're just opening yourself up to be criticised. Why do it? You didn't need to do it if you're not going to say anything new.
00:45:17
Speaker
It's hard because that is an opportunity for the club to to communicate as well and and we've been critical of the club for not communicating. now I'm not saying that is the right means to do it. did he say? He didn't say anything. No, but okay. but He said he was really happy with the way things were going.
00:45:35
Speaker
However, if he'd have just said nothing and and we've just put a spreadsheet out, then there would have been absolute anger in the fan base. Well, you know, for the last 15 seasons, you know, we've had a statement from but you know the chief operating officer and and the sporting director and the manager and all the rest of it. So I i think we're damned if we do, damned if we don't in in that regard.
00:45:55
Speaker
And I do think also that Nick Mashta is very... very anti-club and has been for some time but as soon as his access started to dwindle. Yeah, I don't think they don't think his messages get returned anymore, which, is to be fair, he almost said as much, um to be honest, with Rob.
00:46:16
Speaker
I thought Rob um did a brilliant job yesterday. I really did. I thought he and has actually been... um broadcasting brilliantly around what has been such a tough period.
00:46:29
Speaker
and And I thought the way he handled the Vox Pops, the way he expressed the anger, the way he um kind of voiced the hurt and how important it is that actually we have to take it seriously, that that like fans that he has seen in the Barkley for years and years and years have never been that angry.
00:46:48
Speaker
I thought he did a brilliant job. And so I just thought it's worth saying. I thought they did a really good job with Atanasio as well. Yeah, him and Phil she did a fantastic job.
00:46:59
Speaker
I also really enjoyed and Connor's face when Paddy was doing his post-match thing. Connor was sat behind him and his face was literally like every single other Norwich fan in the ground or on their way home. We say it again and again and again. It was amazing.
00:47:14
Speaker
We say again and again, but I think we are blessed. we We have got such brilliant people covering the club and they... you know apart from paddy they all really really care like they're proper fans and but they don't they aren't where when you listen when you listen to like when you're watching some of the streams and you hear some of the other you know completely partisan yeah nonsense that the other other clubs are getting like we get proper journalists covering our club we're we're very fortunate um and morons like us talk about it as well um not including uk just just i gotta say excuse me Sorry, so you have more. Claire's been here long enough. She's got her feet under the table. Is she dragged down to a It's not the okay i've given it no Actually, I think you're fine. I've given her till Christmas and then I'm going to start laying into her. So, like right, yeah that' less less them let's look at this from the point of view. of the can i just ask
00:48:10
Speaker
Can i ask one more question, listener question, which which is from Jamie Neve. I just thought it was interesting. iie um He asks, what do you what do you make of the fact no players have taken social media about the Manning departure?
00:48:23
Speaker
No thanks, boss. Good luck, et cetera, et cetera, from any of them. And I thought, actually, i haven't seen any of that. don't. they've probably been told not to. I don't. Yeah, that was my hypothesis. They ignore that, though. They always do. Or at least for a couple days. Shane Duffy does. guffy i did it after. Shane Duffy maybe he hasn't had a drink.
00:48:39
Speaker
I think they might send put some out tomorrow. I think maybe they just said, just leave it for a couple of days.
00:48:48
Speaker
Let's have a guarantee of who the next manager is going to be. Claire, coming to you first, who you guaranteeing are lovely faithful listeners who put up with them? Brendan Rogers.
00:49:03
Speaker
Jesus. Jesus. No, he's not. I'm joking. Can you imagine if it is? Oh, no. Yeah. i I have seen several tweets and and i and I also want to believe this. I would be shocked if it isn't Gary O'Neill.
00:49:21
Speaker
I think it will be Gary O'Neill. All the signs point towards that making an awful lot of sense. I would like it to be Dave Schelliner just because I think he's hugely experienced in terms of actually just being a head coach and have just just well out for his long throw army.
00:49:40
Speaker
So, yeah, I'd have some of that. I think it's Gary O'Neill. And there's a few reasons why I hope it is. Now, I was really keen on on the idea of him you know when we talked about it earlier in the season, as I said earlier, I think, today.
00:49:58
Speaker
and But I think he could be exactly the tonic that we're after. um We've got a bit of a divided divided fan base, a little bit like you could say this from a culture wars point of view, that there are different parts of our fan base that want different things. And I think that he could be, like I say, that the tonic for all of them.
00:50:17
Speaker
The people who want a man's man um and going to what Liam Manning said regarding Colney being too nice, I think that as a leader and as you know we certainly know the figure he cut as a player,
00:50:31
Speaker
and not afraid of a red card not afraid of a challenge um i feel that maybe he can put a bit steel and a bit of fight into it i also think from from the way that he has conducted himself on you know the touchline and and post-match when you've seen him celebrate things as wolves i think he's going to give that kind of chest pumping um you know get everyone behind him kind of rhetoric that that that kind of section the fan base wants Likewise, that those of us like you know Punt who wants a philosopher and a dreamer and you know a poet to to be and our manager, he's a brilliant pundit. And when I've seen him on Match the Day um speaking with real authority and real clarity around um yeah his football philosophy or that maybe not he wouldn't use those terms on Match Day, but when when you when you hear him talk, he certainly seems to be that. And the research that I did when I was looking at these various different candidates earlier today
00:51:22
Speaker
and You know, he got probably the best mitigating circumstances, again, not to repeat myself, of of any of the others like your Carricks and what have you. But my fear with the number of managerial um ah kind of of appearances he's got in the Premier League already under his belt and the fact that he just turned down a Premier League job is is i'm I'm just worried that that we could even get him.
00:51:42
Speaker
and You know, the fact that you'd imagine he'd be right at the top of the shortlist. He must have his prep work done if he's in in any way interested I hope that there is a possibility we could get him as early as um this week the the by the end of this week. and Recording this on on on the Sunday, just after the Leicester game the previous day.
00:52:02
Speaker
We've got this international break. It would be great to see him in the dugout for um for Birmingham after the international break because... You know, in theory, you would think if you're in any way interested in Norwich game, you know that it's looking very likely there's going to be an interview series coming up soon. Right. You know, so therefore, if you are thinking of wanting to get and asked and it was an informal interview or chat last time that he had, so he knows the club might be a bit interested.
00:52:27
Speaker
You'd think he's got his kind of his slide deck ready to go. And he's looked at you know what formation he might play and how he might go for it. So if if we can get him, he would be my guarantee and because I think he could he could heal a lot of the the kind of division that there is and he could maybe be a lightning rod for some positivity.
00:52:46
Speaker
um i don't think it necessarily helps Napa and the the board either if he if he does work out really well. I know there's some kind of fans who worry that even if the if the new manager comes in and gets a new manager bounce and wins three to five, does that let Napa off the hook? Does that let the board off the hook?
00:53:02
Speaker
Not in Atanasio's eyes, mean not in my eyes either, but not in Atanasio's eyes. He he knows that um you know that this new manager is going to have to do something different and it will it will clearly have to be tactically and radically different in terms of how he goes about getting points.
00:53:16
Speaker
um And i I think the die is probably cast for for Napa, are are almost irrelevant of how this next manager works out. um So I think plans are in place for a longer term change there. I just think they have to be. like we We don't know that, but that that's what I assume.
00:53:30
Speaker
But look i'm I'm really, really hopeful that O'Neill will still pick up the phone to us and maybe you know maybe it's already happened Sunday morning. Maybe he was already notified. you know Get yourself down for an interview. um Hopefully there's a Zoom with the Atanasios or whatever. and And yeah, fingers crossed.
00:53:45
Speaker
I mean, look, there's there's other people. It might be a ah random that we haven't heard of. i do like the idea of that kind of more older statesman. I could probably get behind that as well. and But I've got the feeling that's probably going to be a name we haven't heard of um if it is going to be that.
00:53:58
Speaker
I'm sure and the lovely boys on the beat will will keep us up to date when there is some news and and when we we do get nearer to an appointment. These things don't say secret for long. So hopefully we get something really exciting to to get our teeth into very soon. But while you wait, we'll be back to chat to you when some kind of white smoke comes up and and the new man is named.
00:54:17
Speaker
Until then, mind how you go.