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Hammering Away Ep #40 - The Graham Potter Era
69 Plays6 months ago
On today's episode of the podcast, Jack and Joe discuss West Ham's 3-2 win against Fulham, the beginning of the Graham Potter Era, the January Transfer Window, and more!
Music by: @ANTlll
Blog: Hammering-Away.blog
Twitter/X: @Hammering_Away
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Transcript
Celebrating 40 Episodes & A New Direction
00:00:18
Speaker
Welcome back to another episode of the hammering away podcast. As always, I'm your host, Jack Coogan, and I'm joined by our co-host Joe. so And this is a special episode because if I'm not mistaken, this is the first episode where we get to not talk about Julian Lopategi for a long time. And we get to talk about things that are almost maybe a little bit positive on this podcast for the first time since Uh, Everson's new manager left me. So is this episode 40? This is
Introducing Graham Potter's Fresh Perspective
00:00:55
Speaker
episode 40. I believe so. What a milestone and what a better, there's truly no better way to ring it in than with Graham Potter. Loba Taghi almost, he almost put this podcast out of its misery, but we are, we are back. Seriously. And we're here to stay. Even if he fails, we're here to stay. Which I don't, I don't foresee happening, but
00:01:18
Speaker
good or bad, we're not going to take as much of it as much of a hiatus as we did. lo pikai I mean, we took a hiatus. The players took a hiatus from playing for the manager. And now I feel like we're back because all of us are back again. Now we have a manager again who um attempts to get the best out of his players, which, you know, I almost forgot was something that,
00:01:44
Speaker
not every coach has because, you know, with Moyes for so long, like say what you will about him, but like, you know, you try to get the best out of his guys, like, especially with Paquetta and more prowess last season come to mind, especially.
Contrasting Coaching Styles
00:01:58
Speaker
Oh yeah, for sure. And so going back to a coach who is kind of just trying to do their own thing, almost like Pellegrini in some ways, like, you know, how Billich used to do. I mean, Billich, I feel like tried to get the best out of his players.
00:02:13
Speaker
just didn't always know what was best for them. Like Antonio ah right back is a great example of that. um But Potter man, I mean, how quickly has he just made us look like aside with an idea of what they want to do? We look like we train during the week now. Yeah, I mean,
00:02:36
Speaker
First of all, that's ironic because part of what the players seem to have complained about, and according to Roshane Thomas, was that they were practicing too much, which is like so very surprising to me. But um anyways,
00:02:52
Speaker
um I think with it when whenever a new manager comes in, a sign that they're going to make things work and turn things around is when they are able to not only bring in new players that fit in their vision, but when they breathe air into players that are out of favor or currently you know aren't contributing much and and repurpose them and and get them to playing back at their best. And I think we saw that with Moyes, certainly. I mean, Cresswell, Antonio, Fornals, all these guys were afterthoughts. and then
00:03:33
Speaker
Mois came in and made them crucial, crucial players, Abana,
Adaptability and Player Performance
00:03:39
Speaker
all these guys. He brought them back to where they were before the Pellegrini era. Exactly, exactly. And like you were saying, it's up to the manager to to kind of figure out what the best way, how what what's the best way to utilize what I have at my disposal?
00:03:59
Speaker
um It's something that Lopateki kind of refused to do, in my opinion. He he had his idea of playing, ah you know, he had his idea of what he wanted to, to how how he wanted to play at West Ham. And he didn't really tweak that to cater to the players that he had. And here's the thing, at the end of the day, people can talk about, oh, and It's good beyond Lopetegui because if anybody looks at what Lopetegui did at West Ham and says, Oh, we didn't have the players. They didn't back them. It's it's just not true. and Like he had the players to succeed. Um, obviously the midfield is not great, but he didn't have to expose that midfield's exact flaws week after week after week after week. He, nobody told him that he had to do that. I mean, Potter's shown that that you can help these guys out by keeping them more compact and closer together and still play pretty decent football.
00:04:59
Speaker
But at the end of the day, these are professional footballers at any club in the Premier League. And at West Ham, these are expensive professional footballers. This is a squad with a lot of quality. And if you come in and you can't figure out how to compromise with these players at your disposal, you don't deserve to have a job. And that's what happened. Because he more than anything else, he refused to compromise yeah on what his idea was.
00:05:30
Speaker
And he cost us, he cost himself, he cost his whole backroom staff. He cost Mohammed Kudus, he cost Edson Alvarez, he cost Lucas Paqueta, he cost Guido Rodriguez to an extent, he cost Jean-Claire Tadebo. Absolutely. Like this is on him. And that will only become clearer and clearer and clearer.
00:05:56
Speaker
as we continue to watch a manager with not only an idea of what he wants to do, but the ability to actually adapt to his squad and get the best out of the players in his squad. I mean, Paquetta, I've never seen a player in sports who is quote unquote good, or you know that they're good, have a stretch as horrid as he had the first, like I'm serious. I cannot name a hazard.
00:06:27
Speaker
at Chelsea in 2015-16 didn't score a goal for like 350 days or something crazy like that. But you get what I'm saying. like this does like He wasn't contributing. He played one good game on their will protect you. It's it's like honestly crazy to think about where he was in towards the end of 2023, going into 2024 before he got injured.
Player Empowerment Under New Management
00:06:53
Speaker
um and just where he was under Moise and then compare that player to the player that that Lopategi got out of him. It was just, it was, it's just night and day. It was the the complete opposite of what you expect from Lucas Paqueta. It was, it was listless. It was joyless. It was toothless, lethargic. Like these are the, we're talking about,
00:07:23
Speaker
one of the the great on his day, one of the great entertainers this game has on his day. On his day. No, but it's it's true. Like this guy, um like the past couple years under Moyes was a lightning in the bottle that Moyes was able to to use to his advantage. And really did everything he could and tried every single way um at his disposal to make it work for him. And what he got and in response was a player who was willing to do anything for this club. For him. hey for Yes. And we didn't we didn't get that under Lopategi. And it's almost from it's it's it really is remarkable how instantly Grand Potter has gotten him to buy in again.
00:08:13
Speaker
Yeah. Because, man,
00:08:17
Speaker
him yeah him on, uh, Paquetta on Tuesday, where the game was Tuesday? Yeah, we put on Tuesday. He was just, he's, he was the reason we won. Like that was an old school. That was old school. because poettta The way he saw out the game with his, his, his, his flopping and his antics, which, you know, when, you when you see opposing fans after a game, call him a disgrace. That's how you know he had a good game. yeah
00:08:52
Speaker
i And just the way he led the press, he he really set the tone for the entire team. And once he picked it up, which was really from the right from the beginning, beginning once that once the rest of the team recognized how up he was for this game, the rest of them followed. And I think that's really promising for the rest of the rest of the year. And that's something that we really need with Bowen out right now. um yeah I thought Soucek, honestly, true captain's performance, but you need
00:09:24
Speaker
you know, your forward players, your most talented players to also lead by example. And I think what's so interesting that you touched on a little bit, and I want to talk about a little bit more, is the buy-in and the shift that he put in against Fulham, and the shift that he put in against Aston Villa too. Whereas I remember losing my mind week after week, specifically after the Chelsea loss at home under Lopategi being like, he either has no idea where he's supposed to be or he has no desire to be where he want he's supposed to be. yeah And it was probably a lot of both. He was running around like a chicken with his head cut off. He was like, even though Will Patecki's press had little to no structure at all, I just remember that Chelsea game in particular, a lot of it was him and just being in no man's land all the time and kind of just like ball watching and ball chasing and just doing whatever. And him he is a big ball chaser, but he wasn't,
00:10:21
Speaker
Jason with the same conviction, the same consumption. Whereas, I mean, on Fulham, you know, it w reeks of those old games and their moise. I remember Burnley away last season. He was awful with the ball, but he was a dog that day. And he actually did do it earlier this season against Crystal Palace a little bit when we beat them. yeah But then we didn't see that again under Lopategi and seeing how quickly Potter is able to get that back out of him, which is something I was excited about with Potter is, you know, you watch his interviews and He talks about how it's always about the next action for him. like that's you know People make fun of him because he's always clapping on the sidelines. He's always saying the boys gave it everything. But that's who he is because he just encourages that short-term memory loss. like You're like a goldfish type thing. like You don't remember what happened in the last action. You're on to the next action. You're on to the next action. And just keep going, keep going, keep going. And honestly, like Piqueta, to an extent, I think it's very hard to get professional athletes to buy in.
00:11:18
Speaker
at any level in any sport, I think it's ah one of a coach's most valuable traits. Cause whenever a lot of coaches throughout sports, like, I mean, Moyes is a good example, or you can even go to Tony Pulis or, you know, Sam Howard, I said times like guys like that.
00:11:35
Speaker
like, obviously, part of it is their tactics, it helps him stay up. But it's the level of buy in that they get too, is what makes it so valuable. And then obviously, if you go across to other sports, like our boy, Tom Thibodeau with the Knicks, like, some of these coaches get scoffed at. But that's not an easy thing to do. Because oh you see a lot of teams fall by the wayside, because they bring in a new manager, and they can't get buy in.
00:11:57
Speaker
um So seeing this team work the way that they have even outside of Paquetta for Grand Potter is as much of an early sign of success as anything else that we've seen in my opinion. Absolutely. i mean the the it was it it Once again, it was absolutely night and day for in terms of buy-in. A successful press in the Premier League is a combination of individual effort
00:12:28
Speaker
like on ah on a larger scale. So it needs to like the the players need to be trying, like, you know, giving it all they got, but they need to be doing it together. And they were connected. Yes. If if it's if it's not a joint effort with the the your players who are pressing, then it it's just going to leave you exposed. And we saw a lot of that under the table where guys weren't moving together. It needs to be like coordinated. And and I think that we They, they really got that out. Potter has been getting that out of the players a lot more than the Pataki has. And I think once there's like that level of direction and coordination that increases like the willingness to do it. Like, yeah for example, under the Pataki, like, like, oh, like if I'm just going to chase after this ball, no one's going to be behind me for the next pass. What's the point of even running out there? So.
00:13:29
Speaker
just Just the direction and the guidance ah that they they clearly have are getting now that they weren't getting Lopategi. I mean, we press with a purpose now. Not only do we press with a purpose, but there's clear triggers for it and there's, we press, you know, like it's not nonstop. Under Lopategi, it was turn a ball over, press, press, press, which is nice in theory, but it's not nice when just your forward players are pressing and then your midfield, but then the defensive line isn't like fully stepping up with them and the midfielders aren't really athletic enough to cover all that space. It kind of makes you a mess, which is exactly what we saw. But now, I mean, the Soler goal is a perfect example. You kind of get the goalkeeper in an uncomfortable position. You can't go to the, I don't know, not to call it the strong side of the field, but he can't go to,
00:14:19
Speaker
where there's more space. So you back them into that corner. Now Andreas Pereira tries to hit one first time across his body, across the field and so there, I mean, it's a great finish, but like, it's a huge chance immediately just off that. And even outside of the press,
00:14:36
Speaker
It's also understanding when to drop off and when to be compact yeah and when to be narrow. And that helps this group of midfielders in particular a lot. Cause this is what I've said is that the squad is not perfect, but they're extremely talented and there's no reason for them to be where they are in the league with this kind of goal difference, especially it's obscene. Like these midfielders are flawed. Nobody's ever debated that, but the same way Moyes got a ton out of Alvarez last year.
00:15:05
Speaker
And, you know, the ways that we know, I mean, Suchak's still been good this year, cause he just, he's going to be here forever. This is what he does. You know what I mean? He, he is a survivor. He's a worker and he is a good footballer to an extent, even if it's not as aesthetically pleasing as others, but like, if you just help the midfielders out and you don't put them in positions that expose their ah exact flaws,
00:15:35
Speaker
They'll be okay. Alvarez did really well against Fulham. Rodriguez did fine. I thought Alvarez was awesome. I was watching the game back earlier before we started recording and he I was, I was really looking to pay attention to see what changed. Cause even Potter admitted in the post game post-match interview was that the first quarter of an hour didn't go in our favor. We dealt with a lot of pressure. Yeah, I would say, I don't know math. I meant to say like 25 minutes, but, um, I was wondering like what, what really got, what got of it what got us out of this hole?
00:16:21
Speaker
And to what I observed was that Alvarez was everywhere when the momentum was shifting. He was picking the ball up deep. He was wiggling out of space. He was dribbling. He was drawing fouls. He was immense.
Alvarez's Transformation
00:16:41
Speaker
in possession and then out of possession, he was getting to every every pass whenever that front four was passed by. um When they were had full and deep in their own on their own third, Alvarez was there pressuring the next guy um he and causing turnovers. He looks completely brand new under Potter. It's it's only been two games, but he I think he's going to be extremely crucial for the for the rest of the season. And mind you, this is the same player who got raucous applause when ah fans found out that Monica were interested in loaning him out. and So it's just it's just amazing the fact
00:17:33
Speaker
that this guy was essentially worthless under Lopategi and now under Potter. He was one of, if not the best player on the pitch on Tuesday, Bar Paqueta. And you know, it's very ironic that it was those two who you mentioned, who we both mentioned the most.
00:17:53
Speaker
um But what I would say more than anything else is he was himself. Yeah. That performance that he had against Fulham is who you think Edson Alvarez is, who we all thought Edson Alvarez was before Lopategi. He was just empowered to do the things that he was brought here to do. It was simple as that. Yeah. what he The things that he was good at at IACS and good at under Moise,
00:18:22
Speaker
He was doing on Tuesday. Yeah, exactly. And he wasn't asked to do more than that, and which is just, I think it's going to be a theme under Potter. Like as kudos begins to find his feet more, people can say, we're not going to talk about him. He was a lot better in that first half than anybody gave him credit for. And he ran out of gas in the second half and Potter made a good sub. That's really all there is to it.
00:18:43
Speaker
if You're one of these people who seems to take kind of sick joy when he plays poorly. um First of all, you can go look at the stats. You can go actually watch the games back under Lopategi, actually sit down and watch them. And you'll see that he's not been anywhere near as bad as the Twitter narratives want you to believe. um So don't believe those. ah Go listen to Tom Cairny talk about him after you played Fulham this year. He'll tell you how good he was that day.
00:19:13
Speaker
You can find that on YouTube sky sports sky sports Premier League, but yeah, this is going to be a theme that we see under Potter now is guys who, you know, we almost just gave up on on their little petegi, like Paquetta and Alvarez are the two massive examples of this, who are gonna be put in positions to succeed and to play to their strengths again. And we're gonna remember why we thought that these were good players in the first place, because they are, because they are. And a coach who understands how to get the best out of his players, which shouldn't be some big thing,
00:19:52
Speaker
You are a coach, you're you're a manager, ah you are managing a Premier League football club. Like this is your job. yeah um Your job is to get the best out of players and to win games. So, I mean, the most ironic funniest part about the whole thing is for all the different nonsense that Lopategi tried, he never started pick up the from the left from the start of a game the entire time he was here.
00:20:22
Speaker
If I'm correct, he never, he he played on the left, like I think for spurts, maybe after never started him. Yeah. Never started him from the left. And the first thing Potter did when he got the job, it was apparently calm ways. And then the second thing he did was start pick up on the left.
00:20:40
Speaker
against Bryan, or against Essenville, sorry. And you know what, he, I'm just saying the Moyes part to be funny, he didn't need to call David Moyes to understand that you can start Paquetta from the left to try and get the best out of other players in the squad. Because guess what? There's a season of film of it working. Yep. The best season of this guy's career or the best half season, I should say. Yep.
00:21:05
Speaker
It's just not that complicated. I think that's something that we're going to see a lot too, is that it was never that complicated.
Transfer Market Strategies
00:21:11
Speaker
Lopategi forced it to be complicated. By trying to play a system, it doesn't suit all of the talent at his disposal. Yeah. I mean, listen, what do you think the reaction would have been on if on January 1st, X a report saying Etsunavirus has been sold, Lucas Pagenta has been sold.
00:21:36
Speaker
People would have been praising the heavens. People would have been thanking, I would have been thanking God, depending on the, pike the picture, fee, but I mean, Alvarez being gone for anything, I would have, I would have danced in the streets. Peketa for being, for being gone for 30 million or more, I would have been dancing in the streets, yeah but it just just goes to show the way, ah but you know,
00:22:05
Speaker
a manager's impact can have on a certain player, both positive and negative. And the more I think about Ponner, the more I think ah he is just such a perfect Mois successor. He is the Mois successor that, you know, if if there is one on this on this earth, it's him. Because from these two games, it's very clear that he appreciates the foundation that Moyes set in. And I think any coach that was going to replace Moyes needed to have that appreciation because we did a lot of things well under Moyes. Now, whether we were losing games, whether we were, you know, at top of the Premier League under Moyes or bottom, we were doing things right so consistently. And that was
00:23:03
Speaker
being efficient in both areas, but in both boxes, both defending the box and, you know, and said scoring, you know, making the most out of the so minimum amount of chances attacking crosses. um like Exactly. if If there was a way to convert got ah chances and into goals, Moyse was going to maximize it. And he did. And it seems that Potter is trying to restore that solid foundation that we had under Moyse. Because while you were gifted this amazing, you know, these amazing traits from the past manager, why would you throw it away? That's what Lopez did. He threw that all away. He pissed over everything. Like yeah how he burnt down.
00:23:50
Speaker
what we built in four years and four months is it's impressive honestly not even four months it was burnt down by that first preseason game against wolves like he like brainwashed them into like forgetting how to like defend the box it was just unreal and now now potter i mean Listen, we didn't create much against Fulham, but they're coming. yeah potter and Potter got this these like the worst Brighton teams and the worst Chelsea teams you'll probably ever see again. He got them pouring in talent-wise, I mean. Yeah.
00:24:36
Speaker
uh, had them pouring in chances. Brighton were like top of the league and XG every single, like every single season that, that Potter was there now. I think that I just want to jump in really quick. Cause something that you said about Potter appreciating the base that moist bill, right? There's two things I want to say about that. I think number one.
00:25:01
Speaker
is that any manager from Pep Guardiola, the Jurgen Klopp, to Unai Emery, to David Moyes, to Graham Potter, to anyone with any kind of success, down to Fabian Herzler at Brighton. I think that all of the good coaches, especially in the modern game, understand the importance of having that base and being compact. So that's one. So Lopategi not understanding that is just unthinkable. It's disqualifying as a manager. But number two, and this is the thing I really wanted to say.
00:25:37
Speaker
is that it kind of is forgotten that, uh, grand Potter took over from Chris Newton. I think his first name's Chris, Chris, you're not Brighton when he came in there. And I think that was going into Brighton's third Premier league season. Yeah. Cause he took over in 2018, I believe. Yeah. So going into Brighton's third Premier league season and grand Potter oversaw a massive change in identity.
00:26:04
Speaker
in play style from everything they were under Chris Ewan from defending deep going route one up to big Glen Murray. And Graham Potter was able to oversee that overhaul and identity from a team, probably definitely more negative than West Ham waste teams into being this expansive free flowing team that he left for dessert.
00:26:26
Speaker
yeahp And I think that that is a huge, huge, huge green flag for everything that we wanted in Amoi's successor. And it's a good thing that we get him in this early. He should have gotten in earlier because I'm a little pissed off because I feel like we threw away our season by allowing Lopateki to stay on after that Leicester game because we were still only six points off the European places. We were still in the f FA Cup and we would have had time to actually prepare for that game if they sacked him then.
00:26:54
Speaker
with all those easy fixtures. I don't want to call them easy, but with all those winnable fixtures during the Christmas period that we had. The infamous draw game Unbeaten Streak with Julian Lopategi. Most ridiculous that could have been 12 points under a real manager.
00:27:11
Speaker
And you know it's just that that whole thing is frustrating. But I think it's a very promising sign to know that Potter not only you you know can be compact and is very adaptable, but Potter not only his team has played slick, quick, free-flowing, attacking football like when they need to. And really, that's his identity ah as what people know him as. But more than anything else, he has overseen this exact transition that we want to execute before.
00:27:41
Speaker
And he's gonna do it again at West Ham and he's gonna do it at a much higher scale because what he has 10 times the resources at his as disposal at West Ham than he did at Brighton. It's just very exciting. Speaking of resources, we should we should talk about the January transfer window. And the first thing I wanna ask you about is Louis Galerme. What do you make of the whole thing. You mean between reports that we want to sell them, then X saying that we are unlikely to sell them, but we'll listen to Saudi offers. So do you think that we should sell them? Do you think there's a right price? Do you think it would be silly to sell him? Where do you stand? and All right. So this is probably the most polarizing signing that I can remember it was him.
00:28:37
Speaker
For, for the amount that he's played or the lack thereof, he has absolutely like pitted this fan, fan base against each other. All right. And, and now at this point pitted the fan base against him, an 18 year old kid. And it's not his fault. You know, the yeah that is I don't think it's that, listen, I'll get into how I feel about Luis Guillermo.
00:29:06
Speaker
I approved of the of the process that got him here, and i I think I still do to this day. If you believe in the player, if you if you believe that he's going to be a 60 million, 80 pound, 60 million, 80 million type of player in the future,
00:29:28
Speaker
then yeah, this is a good investment. You have depth at the position you're signing him for, and you give him two years, you give a clear cut development track. And who and who knows? his There is a future where Guillerme is a big time contributor at West Ham. And you look at Ahmad Diallo, who just had a 90th minute hat trick to save three points at home against Southampton.
00:29:55
Speaker
He was in this exact position. He was labeled the flop. He was a flop before he even landed in England. He spent his first year not playing at all. 30 million. its It was very similar price tag. 40 million. 40 million.
00:30:14
Speaker
He said he spent a second year on a very unremarkable loan at Rangers. Well, I forgot that that happened. Yeah, me too, honestly. I was reminded by that. Oh my God, he's been there forever. How old is he? He's like 22. Keep going, I'm looking this up. Oh yeah, Ole Gunnar Shokusar brought him in during the COVID season.
00:30:40
Speaker
2021 or no, this was the summer of 2020. He came to Manchester United. So the Sunderland loan, he was 20 years old. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That, ah that timeline makes sense. Sorry. So yeah, he goes, he goes to Sunderland. He breaks out.
00:30:59
Speaker
And he comes back, he gets he has an injury-ruled season last season, and now this is when he's truly announced himself at Manchester United. It was this season, four years later, and I don't think you'll ever hear about the amount that Manchester United paid to Atlanta back then. Now, I'm not saying Guillermo is going to be a madiello.
00:31:22
Speaker
But that is that's that's what Tim Syden tried to recreate essentially with the signing. Now, turning to the problematic part of it, is this a signing we should have made in while sacrificing the present? Should we have gotten him instead of using that money towards Doran? A sentiment fielder. A sentiment fielder.
00:31:52
Speaker
Probably not. You shouldn't be doing these things when you have such glaring holes in your squad. I mean, United did it. they About 11 holes in their squad and at that point. But, you know, they they suffered. They suffered. They're suffering. They're suffering. They're still not good. He's the only good thing about them. um Yeah. But ah I think that in terms of right now, in terms of the January transfer window, do you sell Luis Guillerme? It depends. It depends on not only the fee,
00:32:36
Speaker
but who it must be in my opinion it must be in a direct turnaround to so like enable you to sign a player that you are currently unable to to sign for financial reasons like if you can sell design a good player we shouldn't not be signing we should not be selling least clear on me to sign Taiwo Aoniwi for 20 million pounds. And I like Aoniwi. I think he'd be fine at the right price point, but between the injuries and just overall not being some world leader besides like a little patch of form a year or two ago, I don't care. Yeah, that that is not what I'm talking about. If you can sell him and go after like Duran,
00:33:21
Speaker
or like like make a certain level. Listen, no, I'm not saying that this is like, you know, something that they can do, but- And in theory. Like if you're gonna go and get like a like a so true splash for Grand Potter and give him the opportunity to make something of this season, I think it's worth it. And if you can, if you can get,
00:33:46
Speaker
Listen, according to our, our source on the ground in Saudi Arabia, that's not that we, that they have a lot of money to spend in this window. They might, I don't know. They're not spending 40 or 50 million pounds on Guillerme. Cause if they were, then yes, you sell them at that 40, 50 million pound price point. Sure.
00:34:12
Speaker
and Yeah. I think it would be ridiculous. to so I think it is an obscene idea to sell this kid because like you said earlier, okay, was it a mistake to spend 20, 25 million pounds on an 18-year-old kid who's a development project when you need a center midfielder, when you could get the RAM? Yes.
00:34:35
Speaker
That's a mistake. That's a misallocation of funds. Now you already bought him. It's already been spent. He is in England. He plays for your team. You have this kid who's, I think he's pretty clearly talented. We haven't really seen that much of it, but from a all the talk and be, you know, the little stuff you see, you can see that there's something about him.
00:35:01
Speaker
especially considering he just landed in a new continent, allow him the year to settle, allow him next year, maybe even gets alone next year.
Internal Dynamics and Youth Development
00:35:11
Speaker
But like, he's here now, develop him. Because, and I think part of what he's suffering from from the most, and it's the reason why there's fan backlash, and it probably goes all the way up to Sullivan, is because Tim Staiten is just a bad guy.
00:35:30
Speaker
He's just a bad guy. Like no matter what you think about him, what he can do at his job. Personally, I think he negotiates deals pretty well, gets things over the line in a way that's maybe less stressful than Sullivan. And this one might be debatable. I don't really think it's that debatable. And I think with Potter here now, it will become less debatable. I think that he is good at talent evaluation for the most part.
00:35:59
Speaker
Like people who think Tadebo is bad are idiots. really it is Rodriguez was a horrible misprofiling and a direct, um, what's the word, a direct, uh, consequence of the Galerme signing, but Tadebo, Juan Vasaca,
00:36:24
Speaker
Somerville I know it's Sullivan, but the other thing I think about side 10 is as a technical director He should be held accountable for every signing that we make good to or bad. So Like if Kilman sucked that's that's on him as much as it's on mopetegi but basically what I'm trying to say is that Because styton has pissed off Basically every everybody at the club allegedly Galerme kind of falls into that, like well, you're Stuyton's guy. like Why don't we just sell him? like We don't need him, which is not a way that a football club should be run. But if you know anything about David Sullivan, you know anything about how things go at West Ham, that's pretty simple math to me that Sullivan's probably just like, all right, like this isn't my kid. like I'm going to get rid of him. But you have a kid who's highly rated from Brazil. He's 18 years old.
00:37:13
Speaker
You already spent the money unless you can actually recoup all that money. And I think you should be asking for at least 40 million pounds because I just think it's a silly thing to do. Do I think he's worth 40 million pounds? No, no club should spend that. That's kind of the point. He's already here. Just like, can we like see something through for once? I mean, this club never had anything through. We never see anything through.
00:37:42
Speaker
Never. The only time we ever saw anything through was when David Moyes strong-armed us in the giving him an 18-month contract because he saved us the first time. 100%. Like whether it goes back to strikers who have failed. I mean, most of them failed because of themselves or other signings or managers or this, that, and the third.
00:38:03
Speaker
We don't see things through ever. Stop panicking. Stop just looking for easy ways out. Stop trying to cut corners. Stop panic buying strikers because their lucky folk crew got hurt. So now they can go for a striker and be vindicated in that search because the obsession at the beginning of the window, the fans, the club, it's all about a striker.
00:38:29
Speaker
sign a midfielder. Oh my God. Like ah like this is when full crew was fit. Like full crew was fit. He scored two and three or whatever, whatever you think about him. I don't really care. You had a 30 million pound striker and then you also had Ings on the bench and then you also had Bowen coming back in mid February.
00:38:49
Speaker
January now, which is crazy, but mid February at the time, like if folk road was fit, you don't need to buy a striker. You don't. and We did not need to buy one. Like would it have been nice? Sure. But we listed one, like not we, but like X listed one, two midfield targets in Duesbury Hall. And the Ben Zouzi is at his name from Belgium. He's talking about nine strikers.
00:39:20
Speaker
Why? unreal what like What is the infatuation? The infatuation with the 15 goal of season striker. We need the 15 goal season striker. We need this. We need that. Jared Bowen scored 16 goals last year, which by the way is our club's Premier League record. So stop talking about a 15 goal season striker. It's not real. It's real. But like,
00:39:45
Speaker
Like there's just better ways to go about it. And it's not to say that we don't need a striker, especially in the summer, maybe as like with full crew, like a striker needs to be brought in at some point. I'm not denying that, but it's the insistence of making it a number one target. And it talks about the kind of things that David Sullivan values. It talks about the way that David Sullivan sees the game and how he understands how to build a winner.
00:40:13
Speaker
And what he understands about building a winner is nothing. And he, again, is lucky that he hired a manager who can run an entire club on his own to the successful extent that Moyes did. Yeah. And I think he's got another one, so. Yeah. And that's just a tangent because it drives me crazy and the not seeing through the glare may think because like, look, if they sell them for, they recoup the money fine. They make more great.
00:40:41
Speaker
But if you lose money on this kid six months into a deal for an 18-year-old, that's a bad business decision. Yep. Listen, the yeah, I agree with you 100%. I think you like summed it up really well and you're really captured.
00:41:02
Speaker
the the the the larger scale issue that you see with with with gear with with the whole concept of selling Guillerme in terms of like, know let's see this through. Because when you watch him, first of all, like his his football, his his talent or what he's proven in these six months should not be debated. It's a stupid discussion. But when he's out there, you can tell that he has something about him. And whether that's, you know, the glimpses we've seen in the senior team or um with with with with the Academy, the U21s, he's been good. Yeah, I mean, the only thing is that they see him train.
00:41:45
Speaker
If he's bad in training, then sure, sell him, whatever, trick somebody. But just from the standpoint of like, he's probably fine, it just makes us look dysfunctional. And not only makes us look, and it makes us dysfunctional. It's another example of that, not to cut you up, but it drives me crazy. I think it's something good. It's, it's, ah you're a hundred percent right to be driven crazy about this. And I think that ah with a manager like Potter, who,
00:42:14
Speaker
unlike his both of his predecessors, who like truly sees the value in in in bleeding in young talent and creating you know creating senior players from within. I think this is the perfect environment that even if he was bad under Lupategi, give him a clean slate with Connor.
00:42:39
Speaker
Give him six months plus through the summer. You evaluate him in August. You say, okay, has this kid been making the strides that we wanted him to? Is he ready for a loan? You evaluate him then. this is a this was He was brought in to be a two to three year project. yes He was not brought in to for what he could possibly do in January.
00:43:09
Speaker
The fact that he's even being named on team sheets is like more than we should really be expecting of him at this point, I think. Do you do you stand by the decision you made in the summer or not?
00:43:26
Speaker
And the the issue in the summer can be wrong and he can still have potential to be a good contributing player to the team that you should develop. Well, I would say there's two things can be true together. Yeah. it And they can, they can also be a wrong, like a ah raw mistake that they made, but also good process in so far as you want to take on projects like that. Maybe it wasn't the right time.
00:43:57
Speaker
Maybe they should have waited a year to to take a shot on a kid like that, but maybe they saw him as a can't miss guy. And if you saw him as a can't miss guy in August or July, nothing changed. He's still that can't miss kid that you see a world of talent in. Yeah. I mean, yeah. And and the other thing is it might be a little harsh on Cal Marshall.
00:44:22
Speaker
who I think might be a little too small to play striker in the Premier League and might have a future at right wing, whether it's in the championship or the Premier League or somewhere abroad. You can also look at it in that way where it's like, oh, well, we have this FA Youth Cup winning team and their second top goal scorer is doing well on loan. And you brought in some kid on higher wages and all these other youth kids, I'm sure, to play in his position.
00:44:51
Speaker
Um, but I mean, but yeah, that I'd say this is not, you know, this is a, this is a, this is a professional sports scene that we're running here. No, no. Yeah. I know. I know. It's either you're better. If you're better than him, then yeah, we'll take, we'll take his lunch, go send them back to Brazil. But yeah, exactly. And this is what's, this is just part of the game. Like when, when, when Cal Marshall becomes a senior player.
00:45:20
Speaker
We're going to buy a right winger from France or something. yeah He's going to have to beat him out for a spot. Exactly. You know, Declan Rice was lucky that this club is allergic to signing center midfielders. Exactly. Let's see what I had to show his worth. But I will say, talking more about the youth and you know bleeding these kids through, i It's the way that grand potter talks about it because he talks about it and it's like everything that grand potter has really built this career pot for to put it simply and a little ah abruptly, I think is the right word or bluntly. Sorry. He's a nerd. Yep. He's a nerd. He loves numbers. He loves finding ways to win where other people can't see it.
00:46:11
Speaker
He just loves data, which is just another way to say numbers and running out of things to list. But he like, it's the way that he speaks about the youth. It's about finding a way to win and be successful at a club like West Ham. Not only does it involve buying smartly as well as buying big and buying superstars, but you have to find talent in your academy because we don't have the money to compete up there. So we need to produce down here.
00:46:38
Speaker
Yeah, in our academies. And by being able to turn those guys into senior players, even if they're just contributors and squad players, now you don't have to buy squad players. Now you can afford to, you know, spend more on that right winger, while Kyle Marshall, you know, covers them. That's just an example. Obviously, Jared Bowens here, nobody's buying a right winger. But just using that as the example,
00:47:04
Speaker
Like, and you know, earthy will come back and earthy so technically secure. I'm sure Potter will love him, especially the way that his potters, quote unquote wingers play where they're really just two tens and then the wing backs, if you want to call them that get high and wide. Um, you know, Skarls, obviously is just becoming a first team player before our very eyes. Kalen Casey has been told that his services are no longer needed with the youth, that he's a first team player.
00:47:31
Speaker
So that will be something to watch out for, especially if Mavropanos wants to keep playing like this. Um, and you know, like we've talked about this before, these FA youth cup winning teams, they tend to produce not just one, but multiple primarily level players. Right. So now we want it. So now unlike years pass, or it's like, we're over rating the youth, bubbleh blah, blah, blah.
00:47:55
Speaker
there should be an expectation on this group to produce two, three, or four players for us. and yeah There should be that expectation. I think Potter is the perfect manager to oversee it. um He brought a lot of guys through at Brighton and at Chelsea. He brought Lewis Hall through at Chelsea. He brought um Aaron Connolly through at Brighton. Those are the first two that spring to my mind for some reason. I saw a list of about eight or nine. And now, you know, he's already bringing Skarls through here and he saw Ali Skarls Emerson was out and he didn't start Kufal at right back in the Wambasako left back. He said, I have this kid who's ready to have a shot. I'm going to give him a shot. yeah And what did he do? He played great in hearing and he earned himself another 15 minutes on the weekend. And those were important 15 minutes too. Those were not some charity five, we're losing five nil. Like here you go. This was, I need you to help me get this three points, like get out there and and that's exactly what he did.
00:48:55
Speaker
And now the next step is giving Andy Irving's minutes to Louis Orford. I like Andy Irving. He's a great guy. We'll never say a bad word about him. And I will be ecstatic to see his one million pound fee turned into something more because of the status that he has here now. And he was called up to the Scottish national team, but with Potts coming back from his loan next summer, he's going to benefit from grand Potter and how much of a miss Keto Rodriguez is. Um,
00:49:24
Speaker
he's going to benefit from Irving possibly leaving because in this club with financial fair play, you have to raise funds and Irving is a way to make like if you sell him for 5 million pounds, it's 500% profit. So for 10 million pounds, that's 1000% profit. And he's probably going to go somewhere in between those two numbers.
00:49:47
Speaker
I would think maybe like four, but you know what I mean? Yeah. He's, he's a good age and you know, he's, he's decent. He's got good tape. Yeah. I mean, he's also a Premier League player now, like being a Premier League player alone as your value. He's the Scottish national team called him up. That has to mean something to somebody in the championship or in Scotland. Um, and then after that, you know, Casey and then Galerme is another one like, okay.
00:50:16
Speaker
If you're really good, then you should make it. And that's the, another reason not to sell them in January is that you just brought this manager in, allow him to evaluate these players. Yeah. Three weeks is not enough time to evaluate this kid. If he thinks that he has a part to play or not, it's just not enough time. So just give him the rest of the year, give him the beginning of preseason. And if Potter comes to, you know, Sullivan at the end of July, and he says, you know what?
Evaluating Player Potential and Future Dynamics
00:50:43
Speaker
I think that this kid was a mistake. I don't think he has a future. I think Stuy 10 should not have spent that much time in Brazil. I don't know what the hell he was doing there. listen if he says but If we get into what I thought he was doing there, we'll probably get sued. Yeah, like if if he goes to Sullivan, he says that that, then you sell him.
00:51:04
Speaker
He'll still be 19 and he'll still have that name value that he has now. Like his value's not gone going to plummet over the next three or four months because he doesn't play as much. Because he already really hasn't played and nobody in their right mind would expect him to be playing that much. Because not only is he at a Premier League club and it's his first year outside of Brazil, all that Jared Bowen and Mohammad Kudos are two right-wingers on this team. Lucas Paquetta and Mohammad Kudos are the two 10s on this team. And Solaire, like, just allow him to grow naturally. Kudos is not going to be here forever. Allow Guilherme to, you know, rise into that role. When he's 21, Paquetta will be like 29-30. Bowen will be 31.
00:51:57
Speaker
when When Louis Clairmay is 21 years old, Jeribone will be 31 years old. There's time. Yeah. I mean, when you think about it like that, when you really take into consideration how old this kid is or how young he is, it's they're definite the timeline of the current guard.
00:52:22
Speaker
either being phased out or declining for whatever reason. Or just needing a break. Going to other clubs, maybe. I mean, even Bowen, his grandpa might come in and see his future as striker. That was a very yeah good argument. Yeah, especially as he gets older, the amount of games he plays, the way he plays, he's kind of need a breather, man. Look at all the games he's played the last three years. Seriously. Every minute, essentially. I mean, there' there's there's ah there's a world where In the summer, Kudu's leaves, Potter wants Bo and a striker, and now Guillerme is all of a sudden our best spright winger on the team. I mean, then they signed one, but then Guillerme is competing with whoever they signed. Exactly. Exactly. it's just He's not that far off in terms of like,
00:53:18
Speaker
Like he's going to get his chances and he's going to get them soon. Yeah. He'll get a break. And it's also just like, man, like wanting to sell it, wanting to sell him for a loss just means that you hate Tim Staitan, which is fine. He's a bad guy. He's not a good person. I, I, I really, the Eliwahi links between just the way he's treated people around the club, the way he operates the, the greediness for attention.
00:53:49
Speaker
that smug looking up, but you know what I mean? Like, like he has a well-documented like list of actions that you can go through and just be like, you know, I don't know if this is someone that I want representing my club, even if he is skilled in these other facets. Like he has prove he has to prove that he can be a normal person if he wants a future here. Greater than his ability to evaluate players and to negotiate signings.
00:54:19
Speaker
is his innate ability, his God-given ability to create enemies as ah quicker than anyone else's I've ever seen. The way he burns bridges, he does them just as efficiently as anyone. I have never seen X, somebody who talks to David Sullivan. I have never seen X have pure hatred like this.
00:54:44
Speaker
for anybody at the club. I mean, I'm sure he would say it's not hatred, and it probably isn't hatred, but like, X like really, like lays into this guy more than anybody that's ever played for us. Our new manager that's been here. And I think and you know, we all take X as the voice of the club. don't Like, that's really how people take it. Like,
00:55:10
Speaker
If the person who is the closest to the club out of all of us as fans that we all get our information from speaks about Stuyten in that light, that can only be a reflection of what's happening inside those walls. Exactly. Exactly. I don't know how long he's going to be here. I think he goes. I think he goes in the summer. He might go on February 1st.
00:55:41
Speaker
as possibility. I think, I think they're waiting to see if they can either get Ashworth or McCauley. Yeah. Cause they already, you know, quote unquote demoted him and Potter has the say in the signings, but I think, you know, he's done work and he has this data. Like, Oh, just let him work with Potter in January. And then we'll see what happens. Look at his recruiting department in
00:56:12
Speaker
either the one, his one from Chelsea or from Brighton. Small price to pay for a little bit of analytics though, isn't it? No. Yeah. I mean, at least we finally have a scouting department thanks to David Moyes and then, you know, going with Stuyton and he built his thing out. And now we have a nerd as our manager. He wants to bring in Kevin McCauley or Dan Ashworth. I mean, however we got here, we,
00:56:42
Speaker
We like have really truly been blessed by getting grandpa. Todd Bole is like a god God's greatest gift.
Managerial Impact and Resource Management
00:56:52
Speaker
fascinating He ruined his Brighton career. He ruined his managerial career. We had, or this England had one of the its greatest managers available right now living.
00:57:08
Speaker
just sitting at home for two years straight. Who was the last English manager that was this hyped? Like when he was at Brighton, like you know but right before he went to Chelsea, the amount of hype that was being driven behind him. I can't think can't even think of one. Eddie Howe, but edie Eddie Howe is never that big.
00:57:32
Speaker
Like he's never like had the, because with Potter, like forget Chelsea came in from, there was the Manchester United shouts. There was the England job shouts. Like even after Chelsea, even after Chelsea sacked him, it was, well, he might just go to England now. Yeah. So we might have pulled off the heist of the century and it could have been a total accident because lest we forget,
00:58:01
Speaker
that David Sullivan does not rate the sky, does not rate him against his against his will, Karen Brady convinced him. It almost lost him.
00:58:14
Speaker
to Everton. We almost lost this guy to Everton. We had to give him two extra years in the contract. It's unreal. He wanted to hire Steve Cooper. He had Steve Cooper in the race. That's how that's how that's how he was trying to pressure grand potters. Oh, we have Steve Cooper on the other side. It's like, Jesus Christ, you were comparing like a genius to an actual dope. A Neanderthal. Neanderthal.
00:58:44
Speaker
he's ah He's like, I don't even know if he can like form a sentence. You look at the ways teams play and I'm not convinced. Exactly. I mean, look at what, what a nightmare dude. He, he could, he genuinely could have relegated this. Yeah. See if, cooper like, see if Cooper would have finished the job that will take you set out to do in the first place, which is to kill everything. at You know, it is very funny though to think about And like not to over-hyper squad of players, but we have a very good squad of players. Obviously the midfield is very flawed. The defense doesn't have a ton of depth. And the goalkeepers are questionable, but I think Fabiancie is honestly having a pretty solid year. yeah um But it's pretty funny to think of how horrendous we looked, both in possession, the just inability to create ah high quality chances or any chances, and then out of possession, just how soft and open we are.
00:59:42
Speaker
We were probably the worst transition team I've ever watched. yeah And we still picked up, like, what, 23 points under Lopategi. We were sitting in 14th, seven points clear of the drop. Like, you kidding? Dude, when you think about it, Lopategi, I don't have the numbers in front of me. But Lopategi probably spent more that that that one summer that he was here then than Grand Potter ever had his i had his hands on it, Brian.
01:00:13
Speaker
Like, this is this is how we'll end the episode. I will look this up. I want you to guess the numbers. How much do you think we spent this summer? How much did we spend this summer? Probably like one.
01:00:26
Speaker
Probably 120 130. Do you want to count the to debo fee in this? Yes, yes. I I thought like 30 to 40 each for a Kiliman and to debo.
01:00:42
Speaker
Full crew was a 30. Guillerme was 20.
01:00:48
Speaker
And then, I mean, there's Solaris fee. We don't know if we're going to pay. Okay. So I have this pulled up now. Rambasaka was the number 30, probably oh upwards of 150. So here we go.
01:01:05
Speaker
So this summer, West Ham United bought Maximilian Kilman for 40 million pounds. So it's 40. Cricencio Somerville for 25 million pounds. It's 65. Nicholas Volkrug is listed at 30 million pounds. X said that it was, quote unquote, significantly less. yeah I'm going to call it 25 million pounds. If that's okay with everybody listening and with you. ah Unless anyone else has something to say. So that's 90 million pounds.
01:01:35
Speaker
Guillerme was like 19 and a half rising to 25. We'll call it 20. So that's 110 million pounds. Aaron Wambasaka was 15 million. So that's 125 million pounds. Tadebo was like a 5 million loan fee and then a 35 million obligation, 30 million obligation. We'll call them 35 million. yeah We'll say that's 160. And then we'll just say that between Rodriguez and fathering him and whatever that that's like 165 million that we spent, right? Now going to Potter at Brighton, he bought, and I, somebody can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm 99.9% sure that he joined the summer of 2018. It was 2019, I believe. What's his first season? Are we sure about that?
01:02:35
Speaker
Graham Potter. Or maybe the 18-19 season was his first. That's what I think. I think it's the 18-19. I'm just going to check really quickly. the You know, for for clarity. Right. So he joined Brighton and Hove Albion in 2019. Right. That 19-20 season? Yeah. I just want to see when did Graham Potter join Brighton?
01:03:02
Speaker
I want to make sure that it was not like a mid-season thing. Yeah. No, yeah, I know. It was August 2019. He managed his first game. Yeah. So May 2019. Okay, cool. So he loaned in Anthony Kanakart. Who did they buy? Oh, no, no, no. They loaned him out. Sorry. I was like, I thought he was already there. Okay. Here we go. They bought Adam Webster from Bristol city for 20 million pounds.
01:03:32
Speaker
So the number of for West Ham this summer was 165, right? They brought Adam Webster from Bristol for 20 million pounds. They bought Neil Malpe from Brentford for 12 million pounds. So it's 32. They bought Leandro Trossard from Gank for 12 million pounds. That's 44.
01:03:49
Speaker
um Then here's Matt Clark from Portsmouth for, call it two and a half million pounds, 46 and a half. Aaron Moy, two and a half million pounds.
01:04:02
Speaker
called that 49 million. And then they bought Tariq Lamptey for 500k, which is called a million. So it's 50 million. And that's between January and the summer of 1920. Now we come up to arrivals in 2020. They bought Moises Quesado for 25 million pounds, which brings them up to 75 million. They bought Jaco motor for 10 million pounds, that's 85 million.
01:04:32
Speaker
And then they have like Van Heck is here, Bellman's here. And if you put all of that to together, you get, I think that I'm also translating from euros to pounds. So it's like half guessing, but I kind of know it. That's about 9 million pounds. So that takes them to 94 million. yeah And then he left, when did he leave?
01:05:05
Speaker
Okay. So now the beginning of that. So that summer of 2022 was still him because he left it like four games into that season. Yep. Okay. So now summer 2021 they're at 94 million spent. They spent 20 million pounds on him weapon. So now that's 114 million. They spent 15 million pounds on Kugarella.
01:05:27
Speaker
So that's 129 million. They bought that, ah you know, that Polish kid, I think he's a winner. I don't know how to say his name. Spent 8 million pounds on him. So that's 137 million. What's his name? Can you try to pronounce his name? Kasper Kozlowski. I've never seen him play in my life. He didn yeah he didn't make it at Brighton. Oh, okay.
01:05:51
Speaker
Um, then they bought Abdullah SEMA for 6 million pounds. Everybody will remember SEMA about Dennis for 5 million pounds. So that's another 11. So that's 148 million. Karou Matoma for 2 million pounds. And then another guy for 3 million pounds.
01:06:14
Speaker
So that would bring that to, this is much harder math to do. It's 153, 153. And then his last summer at Brighton, they spent 15 million pounds on purpose of Stupignon, which will take them to 168 million and 10 million pounds on Julio and Cecil 178, 6 million pounds on Billy Gilmore. That doesn't feel right. I feel like that fee was reported as higher, but on transfer market, it says 6 million pounds.
01:06:42
Speaker
and then another 6 million pounds on San Juan and Dingra. I got to say, man, they spend money really well. Yeah. His name is that we're reading. And then Facundo Bonanate, 4 million pounds. Levi Colville was alone that summer. You know, I will say I know that Brighton has a great transfer team and that's not all Potter. But if Potter played a part in any of those signings, it sounds is pretty good to me.
01:07:11
Speaker
Listen, whether or not he's identifying these players, it doesn't matter because there were still nobodies when they got to him. And he still had to get the best out of them. That's the other thing. Whatever Brighton's recruitment team did, they went out, they found talented players and they handed them to him. They said, figure it out. We think this guy's good. And he figured it out every single time. He turned not only that he turned them those players not only into primarily caliber players,
01:07:37
Speaker
But almost all of them are either kids still contributing at Brighton and starting, or they left for profit. For not just profit. Obscene amounts of money. Obscene. Obscene. Disgusting. Like 150 million pounds for Caesado. The most expensive transfer in the in history of the world. Of the Premier League. ah The history of the Premier League.
01:08:04
Speaker
was a player that Grand Potter received and developed. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. We can't make a profit to save our lives. I hope you're ready for the start.
01:08:22
Speaker
I'm not, I'm not ready for talented players to leave this club. When did McAllister get there? You didn't say McAllister. I think he got there like a year before. I did not remember reading his name. I will find his name for you. He joined, I believe in the summer of 2018. He joined in January, 2019.
01:08:49
Speaker
They're crazy. How did they, they really were, they really do this. They did this well before right. Um, Potter got there. That's crazy. Yeah. Anyways, thank you everybody for listening to another episode of the hammering away podcast. You know where to find this is the blog is hammering. What is our blog? Our blog is hammering away, hammering dash away dot blog. Yep. Hammering dash away dot blog. And the Twitter account is hammering underscore away.
01:09:20
Speaker
And thank you everybody for listening