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Hammering Away Ep #35 - Should He Stay or Go?
69 Plays1 year ago
On today's episode of the podcast, Jack and Joe discuss West Ham's exit in the Europa League to Bayer Leverkusen, whether Moyes is the best for the club moving forwards, and more!
Music by: LADI OGUN & @ANTlll
Blog: Hammering-Away.blog
Twitter/X: @Hammering_Away
Instagram/Threads: @HammeringAway_
Tiktok: @hammering.away
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Transcript
Knicks' Playoff Buzz
00:00:25
Speaker
Welcome back to the Hammering White podcast. This is episode number 35. You know, I've been thinking the last, probably, I guess it's late Wednesday night. So I've been thinking since Tuesday morning that I wish this was a next podcast.
00:00:49
Speaker
Yeah, you can agree because we would just be feral on here. Yeah, I had that thought like last night and into this morning like man, I wish we were just talking about the Knicks. Like, yeah, I've been I've been completely preoccupied since the playoffs started. And I just I felt like they deserve the little mention for anybody who either watches basketball and has not been into it or doesn't watch basketball at all.
00:01:19
Speaker
look up New York Knicks, Philadelphia 76ers last four minutes, last two minutes, last one minute. And watch what happened because that's what sports is all about. And that's the kind of atmosphere is that, you know, we have gotten used to at the bowl on European nights. No, I'm being serious. No, well, it makes it no small part to David Morris, who will be top discussion in this podcast.
00:01:47
Speaker
Yeah, and we will get to him and we will get to everything that he's done for
West Ham's Atmosphere & Achievements
00:01:51
Speaker
this club. But like, I really do think that it's in a way those playoff atmospheres at Madison Square Garden. Because I mean, I don't know how you feel, but I definitely feel like Madison Square Garden is especially a playoff night is probably the best atmosphere in the United States, if not North America. Absolutely. For a sporting event. So I definitely want to bring it up because
00:02:17
Speaker
I think it's relevant to everything that we'll talk about today when it comes to West Ham United and when it comes to David Moyes and when it comes to what he's brought to this club. And even Premier League games when we've been able to get up for Premier League games with David Moyes at the helm and what our record has been with him at the London Stadium versus what it was before.
00:02:43
Speaker
But I do want to make sure that we cover everything that's happened since our last podcast, because obviously we do this weekly. Um, and we're recording this one a little late on a Wednesday. So I want to make sure that we go all the way back and that we talk about what the hell happened last Thursday night against by our lab or Houston, because, um, I'll let you go. But for me, you know, even though we went out of Europe and even though we did, we didn't even get the win. We didn't even.
00:03:14
Speaker
get the chance to end their unbeaten run, which we were minutes away from doing. I think that that effort, that commitment, that desire to win that crowd behind Moyes, no matter what you think of him, is everything that he's brought to this club over the last four years. And we could have never even dreamed about having nights like that. Because not only did we have a big European night that we were up for, and we were like, man,
00:03:44
Speaker
We can do this, and even that we can do this part is down to him, but over the last three years, you know, we had Lingard, we went to the Europa League, we went all the way to the semifinals. If not for some genuine bad luck, you know, between the red card, and Bowen hitting the crossbar, and the first leg, could have won that knockout round, you know, obviously we won the conference league, we beat Freiburg, 5-0 at home. That genuine belief,
00:04:12
Speaker
that belief, that desire, and that hope, hope especially, that we had going into that quarterfinal against a team that was 42-43 unbeaten. They had won 37 games of their last 42. For us to go into that game, perform the way we did in the first half, sorry,
00:04:37
Speaker
And just for us as a fan base to be all brought together because, you know, over the years, whether it's Moise, you know, people say Moise divided the fan base. I wouldn't say Moise has divided them. I would say his play style and some, you know, vocal fans have decided the fan base no matter which side you want to go on.
00:04:58
Speaker
But even before Moyes, whether it was Pellegrini, whether it
David Moyes' Influence and Challenges
00:05:01
Speaker
was Billich at the London Stadium, whether it was the first stint of Moyes, there was always a divide and, you know, there was always an atmosphere in the London Stadium of, you know, bar a few games, like Arsenal at home, the Pellegrini was actually great, United at home when the Pellegrini was obviously great. There were games in the Billich at home that were great, and first stint, Moyes. But the togetherness,
00:05:26
Speaker
that we felt that night, that, you know, all hands on deck, 90 minutes behind these 11 players, no matter what happens, we're here for them. You know, I mean, we applauded them after we conceded that goal, because it's how hard we worked. And I think that, you know, obviously before we get into the conversation later about replacements, about whether it should go, whether it shouldn't go, I think it's very important to acknowledge, applaud,
00:05:57
Speaker
and just enjoy and be grateful for nights like that. I don't know how you feel, but that is how I feel, Joe. Welcome to the podcast. Another five minute rant to start off, but I just have stuff to say today. Yeah. And I remember, but before that five minute rant, you said that I was going to start. So glad to get the mic. That was an intro to you starting. Right. Right. Right. Um, yeah, it's kind of, it feels weird, like,
00:06:27
Speaker
Starting this podcast on a positive note after what happened this weekend But it really just feels like a century has passed this last time we we we talked So we definitely have to start with the lever kissing game Yeah, and I gotta say That is it chalk that up yet another European tie that David Moyes played Absolutely perfectly the game plan was perfect over the two the two legs The first leg
00:06:58
Speaker
Bought for a couple of lapses in the 80th and 85th minute. Perfect. 83rd and 90 plus like one or two. Yeah. Later. We defended forever. They didn't even have a snuff. And we got beat on two corners. And you know what? Not to stop your thought. Nobody in the world.
00:07:24
Speaker
No, no West hand fan, no Premier League fan, no fan of the sport would have gone there with our team with any other set up. Yep. Yep. It wouldn't be realistic to challenge them at their place and.
00:07:42
Speaker
A lot of the grifters that you've credited with dividing the fan base, and I agree it's not noise, it's these guys who are after interactions on Twitter, on YouTube, specifically Claritin Booze, that motherfucker. Sorry. No, no, no, because that's absolutely justified.
00:08:08
Speaker
Yeah. Because he has poisoned the discourse in a way that I don't think will ever recover, even after Moiz leaves. Yeah. So first leg played it perfectly, if not for two goals that they, I want to say, locked into. But it wasn't pretty. I will say that for sure.
00:08:37
Speaker
Not the way they're used to scoring goals. So realistically, Moist, the way Moist set up, he earned a nil-nil. He earned the one-nil at least, which is what he went there for. And if he went there for a one-nil the way that our game plan was in the second leg, it was only more indicative of that we had a plan for that European tie. And then you go to the London Stadium, where we've been so strong in Europe.
00:09:07
Speaker
And we, uh, the first half, we, and that was probably the best. Any team has played that recuse in all season. We had them ride away. The second half. Just for the record, they, they had more of the ball and we were beat down and tired, but I struggled to think of a big chance, even from Palm's goal, you know, good goal, good break. Love Jeremy from Pong respect everything that he's done, but.
00:09:35
Speaker
a deflected goal, that's just more of where they're at. You create your own luck, don't you? And so when you play as well as you've played this year, they created their own luck with that goal. They scored a 91st, 92nd equalizer this weekend to keep that unbeaten or ongoing.
00:09:59
Speaker
What what are we supposed to do at that point when there's a team who clearly Destiny has a ring for them? This is the longest unbeaten run in europe's top five leagues ever history in history Yeah, I I do agree that that we I think we it was it's probably even I would say in the second half um, but I the first half clearly needs to be isolated because we Played them off the park. They were rattled to no end
00:10:26
Speaker
They were begging for that halftime whistle to get blown. And can you imagine if we went into that 1-0, down 1-0 or even at 0-0, the way they would have been rattled? They were rattled up on aggregate. Can you imagine, forget, going in the aggregate 1-0, 2-0. Can you imagine if we went in the halftime up 2-0?
00:10:51
Speaker
And we were tied on an aggregate or God forbid for them, if we went in the aggregate of three now, because we very could be very easily could have. I mean, every sport, it gets talked about how it's game of inches. It's a game of this, it's a game of that. Football is no different. It's a game of inches. Very few things could have fallen a different way. You know, bow and shot.
00:11:15
Speaker
He can't do much more with it, but you know, imagine he strikes that and it hits the keeper's inside heel and it goes under his legs and it goes into the net instead of hitting the underneath of his boot. There's a lot of things in the conversation. Look, obviously we've won, I think four games out of 21, 22.
00:11:36
Speaker
in 2024. And we'll get to this. There are reasons to criticize Moyse for that. I don't think anybody would hide from that, even Moyse's biggest fan, which, you know, I've always been a big Moyse guy. I think I'm even turning more into one the last few weeks with the way some of this conversation has gone. Oh, yeah. But
00:11:58
Speaker
There was nothing else that we could have asked for from that team on that night. And if that's the last European game that we play for a long time, I am ecstatic that we went out the way that we did. Because you know what? We started our European journey on fire and we ended it on fire. And Michael Antonio scored the first and the last goals of both. He scored the first goal of the one in the stadium. He scored the second to last goal at the bowling ground. She needs
00:12:28
Speaker
this whole conversation around him, whether he's shit, whether he's this, whether he's that, whether he's good enough, whether he's not good enough, it just needs to stop. You need to appreciate him as the West Ham legend that he is and
00:12:44
Speaker
as the, ah, what is the word I'm looking for if you can help me here, as the luxury that he is to bring off the bench next year and to have next year. Because we will sign a striker over the summer and we absolutely should. We need a striker, terribly. He's 34. He can't play every week even if it's the Premier League and just Cubs. He can't. We need to sign a striker. We need to find a player who can play that role.
00:13:08
Speaker
But whatever negativity has surrounded Antonio for the last three, four, five, six, seven, even years, it needs to stop. It needs to stop because what he's given us over this last month and a half. He's one of the only ones who I can look at and I can be like, he wanted to be in Europe next year and he showed it out on that pitch. I mean, whether it's the gold, the equalizer in his new castle, he has done enough.
00:13:40
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, what more could be said about this guy, you know, he just, I was, I was the biggest Antonio hater a few years ago. I'm not even going to deny it, but what he's shown us the past four years, five years is just.
00:14:02
Speaker
we'll be thinking about it. Whenever the David Moyes era comes up, Michaela Antonio will come up because he has been so central to what has been one of the greatest eras of modern West Ham history. And he really should be revered as such. And I think what people fail to realize is that we will look back on this era. No matter what anybody wants to say, we've been given so much by this group of players and by this group of coaches.
00:14:32
Speaker
that we will all look back, moist and moist out, no matter who you are. And, you know, there are reasons to be moist out. There are not reasons to get as ridiculous as some have gotten. But, you know, I can respect, you know, the wanting to move on, the thinking things about Mr. Dale, the thinking, you know, maybe the squad trimming is down to him.
00:14:56
Speaker
I don't necessarily agree with that wholeheartedly, but I do think he's played a part in it for sure, knowing how picky he can get. But between Antonio and David Moyes and, and you know what?
00:15:11
Speaker
I would love the preface this with this. I would, I would love to be proved wrong. I would love for us to sign an Amaran or even a Fonseca and, you know, just kick on and, you know, be a real challenging team in the top eight, seven, six, which by the way, Moise has done, but I would love to be that. And, you know, maybe even be playing stronger football and less, what's the word, you know, less relying on just holding back if that's how you want to put it.
Moyes' Impact on Players & Team Dynamics
00:15:42
Speaker
And I would love to look back on that and be like, that's where we started. But instead, I have a fear that we will look back and we'll be like, that would have never happened to that West Ham team. And there will be days where we will lose games. And obviously what happened at Newcastle happened at Newcastle, what happened at Palace happened at Palace. And that will be talked about. And I think that some of that can be.
00:16:08
Speaker
drawn down to a transition period, some will say, how long are we in a transition period? We've been in a transition period since the summer of 2022. My response to that is that what do you think the word period means? It's not a year. It's not two years. It's a period. It's a three to four to five year period where things have to change at a close. That would be my response to that. But I think, you know, I fear
00:16:35
Speaker
especially if Will Patecki comes in, who is not the worst coach in the world, and we'll talk about him too, but he has flaws, particularly of his player management, how he falls out with players, how he never seems to be able to stick at a club, and how he never really seems to be able to capture that identity of that club, which, as we talked about last week, is a huge issue.
00:16:58
Speaker
But I fear that we will lose games or we'll look back and we'll be like, a David Moyes-West Ham team would never let that happen. And I think the biggest issue and the biggest reason for wanting Moyes out is we've had far too many losses this year that you would look at and you would think a David Moyes-West Ham team would never let that happen. That's the biggest reason is the phone, 5-0.
00:17:25
Speaker
the Arsenal 6-0, the Palace 5-2. Those kinds of losses are the kinds of losses that we're supposed to be immune to. Because you'll remember, between 2020, whatever it was in 2023, we didn't lose a Premier League game by more than one goal. That's the concerning area for me. But that's also the area to me that points to the transition. Because, you know,
00:17:51
Speaker
Nobody likes the references. And I've been saying this for months to you, maybe even on the podcast, but losing Declan Rice, it's not a, it's not, it's not nothing. No matter how well we start, it's not nothing. And it will never be nothing. And we've reaped the consequences of that. And you know,
00:18:15
Speaker
James Ward Palace has been a fantastic signing for us. He's done a lot of good things, but a lot of the things that we're both wary of on here about signing him, about his athleticism, about his ability to cover ground efficiently. All these things are a big reason why these games have happened. And it's even more of a shame because he was probably one of the best players in that starting 11 against Palace, but he was still exploited.
00:18:45
Speaker
Yeah. And back to your earlier point about future managers, regardless of how good the next manager comes in as a tactician. And there are certainly better tacticians out there than David Moyes, even though I'm not here to discount his exes and o's. Not as many as some would like to believe. Yeah, I totally agree with that.
00:19:13
Speaker
But you won't get two things from your next manager. The next manager won't care as much about West Ham as David Moyes does without a doubt. And second, no manager that we bring in is going to get his players up to play a big game the way David Moyes does. We were down not only up to not only up to prepared for. Yeah. Yep, I agree.
00:19:44
Speaker
We went into that game 2-0 against Leverkusen and we arguably put in our best performance of the David Moyes era in that game. I think that just goes to show that the character that he's built into these players, they don't give up. The odds were stacked against them. People thought we should punt the game and focus on the Premier League because we were out of it.
00:20:09
Speaker
the players didn't agree and the manager didn't agree. And we went for it. We gave everything we have probably for the rest of the season in that game. We didn't win, but I think the fans, I mean, I went home that day inspired and absolutely at all at what this team gave us. I have never been so inspired and proud.
00:20:37
Speaker
And we talked on the phone at halftime of that game. I've never been so inspired and proud of a group of players, not only on any West Ham team I've watched, on any sports team that I've been for, whether it's West Ham, whether it's the Knicks that we've mentioned that we're fans of on this podcast, or whether, you know, if we go to American football, whether it's the Atlanta Falcons that I'm a fan of.
00:20:59
Speaker
And that team's been through the Super Bowl before, for anybody who's wondering. Don't ask me what happened, this is the role of a scarring experience. And you know what, though, by the way? What that Alina Falcons theme did in the first half of that Super Bowl is number two. It might even be number one. But it's definitely number two. But my whole point is that's what that team made you believe in in that first time. Mm-hmm.
00:21:28
Speaker
And I don't, I don't think that a future manager has us consistently getting up for those games and consistently, consistently having his men prepared to play in those, the games of that level. What are we getting us to that, that spot in the first place? David Moises had us so consistently take care of business in Europe in a way that very few managers have in the past four years.
00:21:54
Speaker
I think that people underestimate how hard it is to be ready for and prepared for tactically those games in Europe. I think that people really, really underestimate that. Because you know, people love that, especially the real anti-moisers, the weird ones who think that their name could have won the conference league. We won unbeaten. We were one goal away from winning every single game in that competition.
00:22:24
Speaker
That doesn't mean that the competition is a joke. That means that we were that good. Obviously, that's the easiest European competition. There is. It's the third tier of the European competition. Sure. That's a European competition. We played serious. Fiorentina went to two finals that year, are in a semi-final of the Europa competition this year, and are in the top nine, I believe, in Serie A right now. They lost today.
00:22:49
Speaker
I don't know where they're at. They're also going back to the Copa Italia final. Are they really? I think so. That's unbelievable. They're good. A.Z. Alkmaq. Kirk has had one. It's been a fantastic signing for them. I'm forgetting his name currently because it's late while we're recording this.
00:23:15
Speaker
Um, but that center midfielder who scored against us in the first leg, is that AC Mon? He plays essentially every week for them. He's very, very good. He's incredible. That was a very good team that we beat in that semi-final. Like that team that we beat in the group. It's, it's, it's just, it's ridiculous to try and downplay that trophy. It is the most mind boggling thing that the fan base has ever done. We haven't won a trophy in 43 years before that.
00:23:43
Speaker
We're downplaying a trophy. Are you fucking kidding me? Right, look at the standard that Moises put into this club. That's the big thing, and we'll get to Amaran and all those rumors. Why do you think that we even have the audacity? He flew out on a plane to talk to us. Whether that happens or not, he flew out on a plane to talk to us. That's been confirmed by West Ham's number one source, Ex-West Ham employee.
00:24:12
Speaker
You think that has nothing to do with noise? Come on. Let's be serious. Again, plenty of reasons to think, hey, maybe it's time to move on. Maybe things have gotten stale. Be serious when you have your conversations with your friends, with people on Twitter, with anybody. Be serious and be honest with yourself. This has gotten way out of hand. I will get on that rant eventually.
00:24:43
Speaker
soon, but it's just, it's mind boggling to me. And speaking of the standard that Moiz has created at West Ham, not only is he getting, you know, created a whole new list of managers that we have available to us to succeed him, look at the players that we're able to bring in. Does Paquetta ever come? If Moiz doesn't do what he does, does Kurus ever come?
00:25:14
Speaker
Does Bowen become the player he's become, if not for David Moyes? No, absolutely not. And these Moyes outers, they like to bring up the point that we have all these great players that Moyes isn't putting to correct use. Well, they wouldn't be here without him. And Kudus and Bowen, by the way, are two of the best counter-attacking players in Europe. Yep.
00:25:41
Speaker
They, not only they fit the system, they thrive in the system. They thirst for a system like this. And David Moyes has created it to make them the most proficient players they can be. And I mean, without Moyes, simple enough, we would still be looking at the championship for players and not be able to poach from the rest of the top five leagues. Leon, compared to us,
00:26:11
Speaker
Two years ago or, or before Peketa came here, was the bigger club. We couldn't have dreamed of being one. Yeah. Now we're selling them like trash. Literal trash. No, seriously. And we're, we were both guys who liked Ben Rama, who believed in Ben Rama. And I still think he's like a pretty good player in the right system. And I do. And you know what? I'll leave him go further.
00:26:41
Speaker
I'll say to an extent, Moyes neutered his game. I'll say that, you know, Moyes in 2022, 2023, that season when we got this first season, the down there, the year that we won the conference league, that Moyes wanted to become a more possession-based side, and he wanted to be able to deal with teams, because we had two really good season of rows, totally right to believe this, by the way, that teams would sit back more against us. And he wanted to become a team that could handle that.
00:27:11
Speaker
So what did he do? He got his wingers to get more involved in possession and help build up more. And you know, it's a goddamn testament to him. The guy, the player that everybody said was the most non-moist player in the world, he bought in and became that player and had the best season of his career, the best top flight season of his career, I should say. Under David Moyes, no matter how bad we were, because he bought into that.
00:27:41
Speaker
became a winger that could keep the ball and help us keep the ball and build us up the pitch. No matter how many penalties he scored, people forget, people let the trash on his Premier League sets. Overall, I probably scored like seven goals from open play that year. He might only score three in the Premier League, but he scored another two in Cops and another two in Europe. You know what I mean?
00:28:02
Speaker
Like Moyes has very consistently gotten the best out of a lot of guys in this club. Again, no matter what you think of him, that is an undeniable fact. If you look at Emerson, if you look at Paquette's progress, if you look at Jared Bowen, if you look at how quickly Mokudu's has settled into this team, if you look at Antonio Atreker, oh, Skamaka failed. Sure. Players failed all the time.
00:28:26
Speaker
Like, again, it just, it really just comes down to, we need to be honest with what that we talk about. Because again, like I've said multiple times already, if you want Moise to go, if you want to upgrade with quote unquote upgrade with Amoram or Fonseca, I understand. That's fine. It should be noted that Fonseca rejected Sullivan when we tried to sign, when we hired Pellegrini. That should also be noted.
00:28:57
Speaker
it's just we need to be honest about what is actually happening. Yeah, David, this this era should be looked at with nothing but but pride and gratefulness. And, and, you know, I think that, you know, there are certainly arguments that that we would upgrade with the new manager. But
00:29:28
Speaker
in no way, shape, or form. No way can anyone really realistically argue that this David Moyes tenure was a failure and needs to end, which a lot of people would. People discount everything he knows. I'm going to piggyback off that and I'm going to get into what we really need to get into. We're a half hour in and it's time to get into this. And I'll start off with the Palace game because I don't want to dwell on it too long.
00:29:59
Speaker
But it needs to be said that that was an embarrassing performance by an embarrassing group of players on the day, and by an embarrassing manager on the day. I understand. You put everything into that love-your-coosie game. I expected to lose that debt. You know what I mean? That's a tough ask, a way it's so harsh. But that new manager bounce, they just beat the whole confidence is high, at least as they are healthy. I understand. Other players weren't healthy for fouls.
00:30:29
Speaker
And you cannot go there and you cannot be down for now in 25 minutes. You can't. That's unacceptable. Moise degrees is unacceptable. And to an extent, that might have lost in the shot. But one game does not define an error. It does not define a manager. And it does not define a team.
00:30:50
Speaker
as embarrassing as that day was, as damning as that day was for what the season has been. I think that that day was more damning on the lack of squad structure, the lack of reinforcements in January, and just the lack of bodies that we've had over the course of the season of injuries.
00:31:08
Speaker
Can some of that be drawn to Moyes? Absolutely. Can some of that be drawn to Tim Steinem? Absolutely. Not signing a left winger in January to replace Ben Raman for Nels is the biggest mistake that David Moyes and Co. have made in his entire tenure at West Ham, which is saying a lot.
00:31:28
Speaker
When we could have finished in the top six, we could have won the Europa League if they had signed the striker in January. They turned down on Atovich for like 75k a week and like 6 million chance a day. He's still playing at Inter in 2024. They just won the league. Other mistakes have been made. Nobody's arguing that mistakes haven't been made. And that's not okay. But, you know, everybody makes mistakes. And my biggest thing about it
00:31:57
Speaker
Is that enough to let the sky go? This is a manager who wins 15 full seasons at West Ham United and Everton. Should he finish in the top eight this season, which obviously isn't guaranteed, we'll have finished in the top eight in 12 of 15 seasons at West Ham and Everton. And if he doesn't finish in the top eight at West Ham this season, it will be 11 of 15, which is still a ridiculous record.
00:32:26
Speaker
with an average points total of 60. This will be a guy who's won 50 points in three of his four full seasons at West Ham if we beat Luton at home or draw three more of our remaining four games. We accumulated 50 or more points in three seasons between 2008 and 2009 and 2019 and 2020.
00:32:57
Speaker
What David Moyes has done in this club should not be discounted, should not be downplayed, and should not be taken for granted. This is not an easy thing to do. It is not an easy thing to come to a club that is not in the top six and make them a consistent challenger for European football year after year after year. It's not. This is not an easy thing to do. It's not an easy thing to do to earn 50 points every year.
00:33:22
Speaker
And that was shown by what happened last year when we won the conference league. Yet we still managed to win the conference league and come back next year after losing our best player and be competitive on both fronts. And honestly,
00:33:36
Speaker
If we were not robbed of decisions at Newcastle, Sheffield United, Aston Villa, and arguably Burnley at home, we would be sitting comfortably in sixth place, or at least in a comfortable position to push for sixth place over these last four games. To try and discount what this guy has done at this club is an absolute disgrace. It's disgusting.
00:34:04
Speaker
It's bewildering. And to be completely honest with you, I would extend him before I assigned any other manager. I would not sign Amaran before I extended him. I would not hire Fonseca before I extended him. And I would definitely not hire Lopatobi before I, I don't know how to say his name, Lopatiji Lopatobi before I extended him. Because you know what? Look.
00:34:30
Speaker
Out of those four managers, Ameren is probably the best manager. He's 39 years old. He plays an incredibly expansive type of style of football, which we can talk about more. He is going to have growing pains in any league. If he even goes to Bayern, he's going to have growing pains. Here, those growing pains will be put under a microscope.
00:34:57
Speaker
Fonseca, you know for a long time that I've rated Paolo Fonseca. You know this. We've talked about this. I wanted him when I hired Harold Green. He's a top manager. I honestly think that he might even be more well suited for this West Ham job than Ruben Amler knows, just in terms of what he's done and what he's had to deal with in his career between Shakhtar and Lael.
00:35:21
Speaker
You know, he got shocked are into a Champions League knockout stage. That's not easy to do. You have to understand how to play without the ball to be able to do that. But I think that.
00:35:33
Speaker
in a vacuum to look at letting Moyes go and not extending him. When he earns 50 or more points in three out of four seasons, when we did that three times in 11 or 12 seasons before him, when he's earned three consecutive European births, when we did that once before him and failed to get through the qualifying stage,
00:35:54
Speaker
I think it is absolutely ridiculous, especially given Moises track record of signing players, especially given the fact that we are still going through a transitional period and will still be going through a transitional period without Rice because we still have things to fill in the midfield and Peketa will leave. You know what? Mokudu's isn't going to be here forever.
00:36:15
Speaker
The only person who has given this club any stability in the last 20, 20, I'll say 20, 20 years, because obviously you had the period in the early 2000s with the Cameo, that team still ended up going down after a while, by the way. To let that manager go who has given this club more stability than any manager almost ever has in the Premier League era,
00:36:42
Speaker
over essentially nothing, over fan unrest, if not anything else.
Management Decisions & Future Prospects
00:36:49
Speaker
To me, it is a ridiculous decision. It's a spineless decision. And it's a decision that an owner makes when all they're really trying to do is keep people off of their back, which to me, it's my last point.
00:37:06
Speaker
It's embarrassing because all anybody did before Moyes was chant GSB out and get on Sullivan's back and get on Brady's back and get on David Gole's back. Rest in peace. Because you know what? They were not doing a good job with this club. They were doing a horrendous job with this club. And when Moyes came in, he took all that pressure off them. Not only did he succeed to take the pressure off them, he stepped into the line of fire for them.
00:37:36
Speaker
And that's what absolutely infuriates me because it is just, I cannot fathom that the people in the boardroom genuinely think that getting rid of Moyse is what's going to move this club forward. I can only think that they think it's what's going to keep people off of their back. And if Stuytham wants a new manager, fine. If they promised Stuytham at the beginning of his deal,
00:38:06
Speaker
We'll get rid of Moyes after the contract is over. Fine. That's totally fine. But if you did promise him that, there should not be reports coming out that there are tensions because Sullivan wants to up a Teggie and Stuy 10 wants other targets. And the absolute last thing I'll say is that I don't necessarily buy that. I don't think Loeb Teggie will be the manager of this club. I think that we will not get Amorim and I think that we will go in a different direction than Loeb Teggie.
00:38:35
Speaker
Because I think that it will be Saifen's decision. But I just really think that it's super nasty and gross that this guy took all the pressure off of this specific owner of David Sullivan. And now that the target is off of his back, he's just using Moyes to appease fans. It blows my mind that this is OK to people. There's a lot to respond to.
00:39:05
Speaker
And I told you I was going to rant about it because it's just, it's enough. It's really, it's enough. Yeah. And I think that sports fans, generally speaking, not even just soccer fans, you know, when things go bad, people are so instantly, instantly in on making change, change to personnel specifically.
00:39:34
Speaker
And if you want to characterize this as a down season or not, I personally wouldn't. We lost Declan Rice in the summer. I think any fan would have been OK with challenging for the top seven for, what, six months, eight months out of the year, getting to a European, your European League quarterfinal, losing to the champions, most likely going to win the whole thing.
00:40:05
Speaker
I think that anyone would have been fine with it. This is the best case scenario in terms of not getting back into Europe. This is the best it could have went. And it was probably the most likely way it was gonna go. All right, but say you wanna call it a down season. I think that David Moyes has gained enough credit in the bank to give him that credit of having a down-ish season.
00:40:35
Speaker
because of the stability, the stability point. Some fans, they don't see the way that we improve under David Moyes given another season. I think that, you know, there's something to be said when teams win together and lose together, they grind their teeth year after year and they become, you know, they learn things year to year. I think that in and of itself could
00:41:05
Speaker
be the path forward. We've learned from the shit that we went through this year. David Moyes is not going to make the same mistakes as he made next year. People improve. People change and adapt. And bringing in new blood doesn't necessarily mean that all of the problems that we have right now are going to be fixed. New problems are going to be to rise. There's a chance that the bottom falls out
00:41:33
Speaker
of the, of this West Ham team next year, no matter who comes in, even if it's Amber, because like you said, he, they play such an expansive, almost experimental type of football that it's very, it might just, yeah, it's, it's, it's cutting edge, cutting edge to the point where brought to the primary league, just might fail.
00:42:00
Speaker
People look at Amorim, right? And he's a bit similar to the therapy in this way, which is a pro and a con, where they look at him and they see three, five, one, two, and they see three, four, three. Yep, fine. Three center backs. What people fail to understand is that when an Amorim team is in possession,
00:42:29
Speaker
He takes his three center backs and one of them steps into midfield and that other midfielder steps forward with another one of the wingers and it effectively becomes a four, two, two, two in possession. Now, I would like somebody to tell me what center back in this West Ham squad
00:42:57
Speaker
can play the middle of the three, four, three, and step into midfield and play in the defensive midfield with their back to the game in possession. Now, if you tell me they need to sign a player to do that, tell me how much a center back in the modern game that can play in midfield is going to cost. We didn't even have a midfielder who could do that.
00:43:28
Speaker
Yeah, Alvarez is the absolutely only one. He won't though, because Alvarez just, if we're going off of the
00:43:47
Speaker
Amorim system. Amorim managed the Polenia who, if anybody remembers, was the main target before Outwards joined last year.
00:43:58
Speaker
I think Alvarez is one of the players who fits Amorim the most, but I think that he fits him in the way that he'll play the six. And now, that's not to say that Amorim is going to manage the seventh, eighth, ninth, and tenth best squad in the Premier League the same way that he manages the first, second, third best squad in the Portuguese League. But it is to say that there's a lot of tactical growth to be had there.
00:44:27
Speaker
if we work to hire him. Now, Fonseca, it's a very expansive 4-2-3-1. It fits a lot of these players. Kudus, specifically, it fits. I think Bowen could thrive on him. I think Alvarez is honestly a great midfielder for any manager to have, just that kind of luxury of having a guy who can play the six. But it really, like what you're saying,
00:44:56
Speaker
is very relevant because I think it begs the question of do people realize how much how much investment this will take to make this I don't know the word I want to make sure that to make this step from what we are now to you know higher attack and higher pressure team because we are a very good pressing team but are we a team that thrives in the other team's third? No.
00:45:24
Speaker
Even our great attackers, our two best goal scorers thrive in space, right? So would you rather give a new manager, especially one who may cost almost 20 million pounds, 17 million pounds for being exact, that thing? Or would you rather take noise even if we, you know,
00:45:52
Speaker
pick up two or three points over these last four games, and we finished the ninth, 10th, 11th. Who would you rather give that money to to build up? Because David Moyes is a film junkie. Like, obviously he loves word of proud, he loves sushi. Do you really think David Moyes and Tim Syton are gonna go into that film room, and they're gonna watch what happened to us this season, and they're gonna say, you know what we don't need? An athletic center mitt.
00:46:21
Speaker
Is that like, is that like, no, like genuinely, like seeing how these guys have spent money, you know, everybody thought Moyes left for an house, chucked for an house to the fucking dogs. He threw for an house to the curb for Ben Rama for a player that was already in the squad.
00:46:42
Speaker
Do you really think Moyes, who's been ruthless since she's been here, even with players he's liked for now is Antonio. He's had him to the replace. You know, people forget, people say that he didn't like Skamaka. He brought Skamaka in the second Antonio messed up. Skamaka was in that team and he started every Premier League game into the World Club. I believe the one or two after I think he might not have been fit for the Arsenal game.
00:47:10
Speaker
And then even over the summer, he wanted to keep them. He wanted to keep them, but they told them, you know, if somebody needs this price, we have to let them go. He wants to go. Like, do you really believe that David Moyes is not going to address that issue that we have? You know what I mean? Like, it's just, why can we not get past narratives and actually watch what happens in front of our eyes? And I think that's a great point.
00:47:38
Speaker
Because, you know, people see David Moyes and they see, you know, a guy set in his ways, quote unquote, a guy who, you know, he's had his style. He's stubborn. He plays favorites, but I've like, he has been tireless in his effort to make this team the best it could be. And it's, it's manifested itself in many ways, whether it be in-game adjustments.
00:48:05
Speaker
uh, changes to the system over the years. And you remember, we used to play five at the back for a very, very significant amount of time. Um, even into when Lingard signed when rice was out, we played five at the back, plenty of those games wolves away, which is a lot of people's favorite games of the morning era. When we were out in 35 minutes was a five at the back game. Yeah. The, he has been tireless and just trying to improve the squad.
00:48:35
Speaker
Who are Moyz's quote-unquote favorites? Suchak tried to replace him several times.
00:48:42
Speaker
And he keeps making his way back. He's got it, because Moiz has to sign the right player to, A, replace a position, and B, can we acknowledge that Suchak has done a ton to continue to earn that place back? Can we not acknowledge that? Because you'll remember after the World Cup last year, Brentford at home, that disastrous Brentford at home loss, the 2-0 loss at the London Stadium against Brentford,
00:49:11
Speaker
He played Paqueta and Rice in the pivot, and he dropped Sucek, and he went five at the back. It's not like he is not that in love with Sucek. He's rested Sucek on plenty of occasions this year in favor of World Cup. He did it against Fulham, and he fucking paid for it. Sucek's been fantastic this year, and I'm not even a Sucek guy. He's earned just about every minute that he's gotten, every second that he's gotten in the last two seasons.
00:49:42
Speaker
Maybe not the last two seasons, but definitely this season. His eyes are every second he's been on the pitch. The last season and a half. Yeah, season and a half is totally fine. Kufal, replacements have been brought in. He can't turn it down. He's better than them. Seven Premier League assists this year?
00:50:01
Speaker
Yeah. He earned that place back. That was Ben Johnson's place. Ben Johnson won that place in that 21-22 season. And Ben Johnson started at right wing back in that villa away game that we won. People forget that. And he played fantastic, but he got hurt. Pereira won that place from them. Kufo won that place back. He's not as married to these players as you think. Yeah. Maybe he has a little bit of favoritism for them. But you know what? Suchak and Kufo in particular.
00:50:31
Speaker
have been credited with changing the entire mentality of the squad because they are in that training room, they're in that gym, they're on the pitch every day, whether it's an on day or an off day. And you know what? That has a lot to do with the character, the mentality, and the identity that Morris has built at this club. It does. And we said this last week, that building an identity and getting by in
00:51:02
Speaker
It's a whole lot more important and a whole lot harder to do than people believe it is. And another thing, just about Suture, even if a new manager comes in, I think that people truly underestimate how long Suture will last. Because I promise you if a new manager comes in, whether it's Fonseca or Amroom, one thing I swear to you, he will not be one of the first names out the door of that window.
00:51:29
Speaker
Yeah, he might play a backup. He might be like a backup six hours. He will not. He will absolutely not be one of the first names out that door. I promise. And I think I think that he will surprise people. And if he is one of the first names out of the door, it will be a mistake. I guarantee it. Yep. You don't because he holds the squad together. He like
00:51:56
Speaker
Not to cut you off, but people forget. We've come a long way, right? This used to be a team like our core, it used to be like Creswell. Jinge, Reed, Noble, Carol. No, no, but I'm being serious. Those are the players that held it together. Look around. Antonio, look around.
00:52:19
Speaker
A lot of those guys are gone. Cresswell doesn't play. Cresswell tried to get the hell out of here last summer. And he's going to get out of here this summer. He's done a great job this year when he's been called upon besides that first European game at home. But he's going to go. The players that this current squad is built around, those core players, those players who tell everybody else what West Ham means and what it means to us and what it means to them and why we have to go out there and work every week.
00:52:50
Speaker
It's Bowen, it's Antonio, and it's Thomas Suchak, and it's Vladimir Kufo. And it's Angelo Obama. I should not forget Angelo Obama and Dabiansky as well. But that is the reality of what we're dealing with here. And a team lacking leaders, as said by David Moyse himself, it would really
00:53:21
Speaker
behoove the next manager to keep him at his hip. Because you know what? You don't, you know, take away the leader of a club, whether it be, you know, leader by example, or leader by, you know, verbal leader, which he seems to be both. You don't just throw them away.
00:53:45
Speaker
and not pay the price for it. And not to mention on the pitch, you know, he is just the master of both boxes, whether it be, you know, blocking shots, or scoring on the other end, you know, creating. Yes. You can't just throw him away and Moises tried and he's paid the price every single time.
00:54:15
Speaker
Um, that was a big tangent on Sue check, but that, but people underestimate that though.
Strategic Evolution & Set Piece Importance
00:54:21
Speaker
And I, and I think that that comes back to a lot of the noise stuff where people, if they cry, we're to rely on set pieces where this, where that, because set pieces aren't only about. When we score a goal, it's about continuing the pile pressure on winning more corners, winning the field position battle.
00:54:42
Speaker
And it's about defending your own box. How many corners have we attacked him dangerously? Off the top of my head, the kudu skull at wolves and the bow and goal at Newcastle, both came from corners. From their corners. And I think people underestimate the importance of winning those margins. And I think that's something that Moyes really understands. I think, and similar to Thibodeau with the next, like just cause he's old doesn't mean that he doesn't understand
00:55:11
Speaker
analytics and margins. I think Moyes very much understands that if you can win in the two boxes, he's a very good chance of winning the game. And not to mention, the proficiency from corners and set pieces, whether it be defending or attacking, I would say equally as important, is a sign of a well-disciplined, organized, prepared club. Well-drilled. And to add on.
00:55:43
Speaker
The proficiency from corners attacking wise, and I think this season, especially the second half of the season, it's been clear. Is not dependent on James Lord. And that's something that is a sign of a very well coached team. Yep. Teams that go down teams that finished in the bottom half teams that underperform their table position based on the squad that they have lose those. They give up corners.
00:56:13
Speaker
They don't score from corners. Lester city went down with a team that finished six, a couple of years ago, two years ago, because the year before, by the way, people forget that they find that table at the eighth. They went down because they lost those margins. They make or break entire clubs. And David Moses held it down for five years, five years ago. And we've been.
00:56:41
Speaker
basically impeccable from set pieces. Especially defensively, especially defensively. And people underestimate, look, modern sports around the world, you want to look at basketball, you want to look at European football, you want to look at American football, no matter what sport you want to look at,
00:56:59
Speaker
Yeah, it might be more boring. For the most part, it is more boring. It's much more brutal to watch a sport nowadays than it was 15 years ago. I would never argue that. Look, if I could go back to the 2010 NBA Finals, if I could go back to the 2000, what was it, the 2006 December goal of the month draw for the Premier League, I would. That was exciting.
00:57:30
Speaker
But you do not have a divine right to be excited, especially when as much money is on the line as it was. And what the hell is more exciting than watching your team win? Can anybody name me a moment that they've been more excited for this West Ham United squad in the last 25 years than when Bowens scored that goal against Tarantino?
00:57:57
Speaker
There is none. Then when Saeed Ben-Rama scored that penalty in Espiritino, because you know what that penalty came from? A set piece. Not even just a free kick set piece, a throw-in that we've seen Kufal make a thousand times down that line over the full backside to Bellin because he makes an early run. You think that's just Jared Bellin's like,
00:58:24
Speaker
instincts? No, that's coached. He does that every week for a reason. Because he's, you know, I'll give credit to him, he probably has done it a few times. And they probably saw that and they probably said do it again, and do it again, and do it again, and do it again, and do it again, and do it again, and do it again. Because any sliver that you can get in that box near that goal, that gives you a better chance to score.
00:58:53
Speaker
Just because the margins are boring does not make them meaningless. I honestly disagree. I feel like I love the set piece shit. No, but I'm not saying that it's boring. I'm just saying for the general thing, like, oh, we're too reliant on set pieces. Who cares? The ball hits the net. Are you happy or are you sad?
00:59:23
Speaker
Yeah, man. You have a coach that obsessively controls every margin that he has available to him. Sucks to be you, you know? We dominate throw-ins. What team dominates throw-ins? I vividly remember. Two things. The last throw-in that we conceded from that I can remember would have been Brentford. Yeah. The home game I alluded to before I kept them. I started in the pivot together.
00:59:52
Speaker
Yep. And beyond that, I can't remember. But like, we don't concede from those. And we don't concede from corners. Like, obviously we have before we concede against a corner against Fulham, we concede against a corner against Lebakus, and we concede from a corner against Arsenal. And you know what? You can chalk that up to us defending too much in the mental fatigue that it takes. You absolutely can. I have no problem with that.
01:00:25
Speaker
Yeah, you can see ourselves the only set piece team that is better than us and they're gonna win the league because of it exactly what that's an entire other conversation is that Arsenal is going to if if man city drop if man city don't win one game in their last five, which they might not and By the way, it should be mentioned that man city are fucking spectacular in set pieces particularly defensive ones
01:00:54
Speaker
And it should also be noted that they scored from the set piece against us and match week 37, two years ago, which effectively won them the league. These teams, like the margins are so important because that is where six and seventh becomes ninth, tenth and eleventh. That's where first and second becomes fourth. That is where it happens on these margins.
01:01:26
Speaker
And you know what? I think it's pretty cool. Take away from winning and effectiveness. I just think it's really cool. A lot of football fans probably see the ball go off for a corner, and they're like, oh, missed opportunity. You get excited. The ball goes out for a corner. I'm like, whoa. There's a big chance coming. And that atmosphere cannot be discredited. That's another thing. We get a corner.
01:01:56
Speaker
Or fans are out of their seat. Those players are automatically more nervous and defend the corner. Like a hostile environment. Home field advantage. That shit matters. Everything matters. And obviously, I'm even more akin to this because we're in playoff basketball season, but every kick matters. Everything matters. You know what I mean? It all matters.
01:02:23
Speaker
And to discredit any side of it because you don't think it's exciting is insane. We're going to finish in the top half again. Wolves lost today. We are going to finish in the top half again. Like, what are we doing here? I don't know. I don't know.
01:02:49
Speaker
Okay. I mean, uh, we, we got to start the web. So, but I, I, I, and I didn't want it to become as pro Moise. I was, I was hoping you fight me on it, but I know that you can't. There's nothing to fight, but I do want to ask your top three favorite matches of the David Moyes era, excluding Fiorentina and Brock. I would like to hear. Gladly. Um,
01:03:23
Speaker
I'll do one from each of the... I'll give you my favorite performance of every single year that he's been here, including... Okay.
01:03:37
Speaker
starting from 2021. Starting from the Lingard season, his full season, like four performances or one from each season. I'll give you one that's different to yours from each season. All right. Hmm. I don't know if I was prepared for this, but, um, the, take your pick with, uh, hmm.
01:04:07
Speaker
I'd say my favorite from the 2020 2021 season. Yeah. Is the second last year match at home. Yeah. The three two. Yeah. That's a great pick. Uh, cause you know, that was that game going into it was a battle for fourth. The consensus without Declan rice, the consensus was that they were better than us.
01:04:36
Speaker
They took that, going into that week, they took that match, Lately Lester. They went out and they broke COVID rules and they had people suspended because of it. And we smacked them in the mouth. We smacked them in the mouth. I'll say one thing about that season. I think that us as West End fans, even going to the hardest noise enters. I think that we take that season for granted. Yeah.
01:05:05
Speaker
Because you think about even after Lingard joined, Villa, right? And even Palace before that. But half of Lingard joined, Villa, Tottenham, Leicester, Wolves, the Arsenal game you should have won, West Brom, Southampton, all these huge, huge wins.
01:05:32
Speaker
that I'm almost guaranteed to be forgetting one. I mean, even City away at the Etihad when we lost to one. Like, you know, the Sheffield United game at home, the Leeds game at home. Like, I really think that we take for granted how good we were that year. We were, we were, that's argued, that was arguably the most dominant we've been while having a putrid squad. That squad sucked.
01:06:03
Speaker
It's not, but you know what, like the, those were good players and I'm not willing to go that far. Like, like for now, this is a good player and like, but like, but, but, but, but I do, I do understand your premise that like they overperform that team absolutely overperformed before the season.
01:06:30
Speaker
Team fans from outside of our bubble and inside our bubble. With inside, inside even more. Inside and out, inside probably even more. Saw that roster on paper and saw relegation. We all raced for it going into that year. And that team shut us up within two months. Even before Lengard, Wolves, Leicester, Tottenham away. But... Palace away. Mm-hmm.
01:07:00
Speaker
villa at home. Like, come on. Like, a season has never been taken so for granted by a fan base that we set our Premier League record points total that year. We won 65 points in the Premier League. We were two points away from the Champions League. We were arguably a Fabian Babuena semi harsh, probably fair though, red card against Chelsea away from going to the Champions League.
01:07:30
Speaker
Yep. Not because you all come. It's fine. 2122. I'm going to try to avoid the low hanging fruit with the pool. But in terms of like going for like Leon and fucking. Well, you know, let's just say it now. Leon and Sevilla of that year.
01:07:57
Speaker
They can be chalked up to just below that Tarantino level where it's like, we know that those were two of the greatest nights that this club has ever given us. Yep. And they define the era of David Morris. Absolutely. And so we don't have to talk about it. Um, I would say the first, uh, the first match against Chelsea, Chelsea at home. Yep.
01:08:26
Speaker
the Masawaaku goal, the performance that Bowen put out. Yep. Unbelievable. That entire Bowen second half of that season was just something to behold. Yeah. Similar form that he was into the beginning of this season. Not as good to be fair. I mean, he was on another level this year, but yeah. Yeah, I mean,
01:08:55
Speaker
What Bowen did that game, what everyone did that game. I mean, this is one of those games where, you know, everyone is firing. And there's another, another era defining performance that, that Liverpool right after that. Yeah. Just, man, before those, before those European fixtures started rolling in, that team was going to finish top four. Yep. Yep.
01:09:25
Speaker
22, 23. And I'm going to go a step further. No Fiorentina, no Ghent 4-1, no Outmar away. I'm trying to stick to the Premier League. All right. All right. I'm trying to stick to the Premier League because everyone, like the European ties, everyone remembers it.
Memorable European Journey & Emotional Impact
01:09:50
Speaker
Well, because that and just the, you know, while you're thinking,
01:09:56
Speaker
Just to say, while we may not reference at least European group stage games in this conversation, as we said in our tweet, that went a little crazy the other day. David Moyes, and not just David Moyes, because, you know, not to make this entire conversation about Moyes, but that, or this West Ham squad, has given us a European journey that none of us will ever forget. I've said this to you, Joe.
01:10:27
Speaker
I've said this to our good friend, Shwini Poo, who is a co-host of the United Hour, and I've said this in our group chat many times. All I ever dreamed for as a Westland fan was one European journey, maybe one European knockout win. It was all I ever wanted. I just wanted to go to Europe once, and I wanted to win one European knockout tie.
01:10:54
Speaker
That's what Sevilla was for me. Sevilla, for me, that was our one. That was our one moment when that happened. And this squad, this manager, this club, is going above and beyond that. And they've given me Leon away. They have given me AZ Altmar. They've given me AZ Altmar home. They've given me Genta home. They have given me fucking Fryberg at home.
01:11:24
Speaker
They've given me leprechauns at home and they've given me Prague. Never in my wildest dreams could I have ever imagined they would have gone this far. And that's it on the European stuff. Yeah, just unbelievable. And when I say unbelievable,
01:11:45
Speaker
not just the word unbelievable to maximize stuff, the true definition of the word unbelievable. I cannot believe the journey that this team has taken us on throughout Europe. And the squad, every player who's been a part of it should eternally be thankful, thanked for it. Sorry. Yeah. I mean, just to go off that before we continue, um,
01:12:10
Speaker
I think a lot of people went into that second tie, second leg against Sevilla, you know, just begging for, you know, one more, one more night. Just continue, just continue the journey. Take a second time. Yeah. Not only did we go to extra time, we win the game and we play 30 more European games after that. And we played them off the park. That cannot be stressed enough.
01:12:36
Speaker
That Sevilla Knight, that team had no desire to be there. They were played off the park. There was the one save our Ariola made, which for me, you know, barring anything he does in the future, which is very possible. He will always, always, always be remembered for that save. Always. Absolutely. Truly the best save he's made in West Hampshire. Best save I've ever seen in West Hampshire for sure.
01:13:08
Speaker
Darren ran it off against Liverpool. It's respected. But you need to pick a Premier League performance from 2022, 2023. There certainly weren't many. There were a few. And you've given me enough time to really reflect. Too busy conversating with me.
01:13:36
Speaker
And I'm going to, I'm going to, you know, go off a limb here, throw a curveball in there and put in a free World Cup performance. Free World Cup. Do we have one? Wolves. Oh, that was, that was, I thought we were back. We were back. We were Skamaka. Skamaka played incredible.
01:14:06
Speaker
Bowen was great. We were firing. We played them off the park. Everything was going well. You know who Willa's manager was at the time? Yes, it was Julia Lopez. So he's already contributed to West Ham lore. He's given us the best Premier League performance of the 2023. He did not, but I will get to that in my pick.
01:14:36
Speaker
Um, and then this season, um, Hmm. This season more to choose. I really, I really wish I could pick like, if I can pick the first like 60 minutes of like the new castle game, cause that was truly the best we've ever played.
01:15:04
Speaker
I didn't think we were actually that good that day. I thought we were good or deserved the win up until, you know, 11 came on, but. No, I thought we were great. We like that. The last goal we scored like just was just a epitome of the amount of control we had. Yes. Over that the entire entire game. But, you know, take that away. I'm going to throw another curveball in there. I'm not going to pick a primarily game or Europa League game.
01:15:34
Speaker
I'm going to pick Arsenal in the cup. Oh, Mr. Declan Ice coming back to the bowl. Yup. And we smashed them. And that was the best game. Paqueta played all season probably. No, no. I think the game I'm going to pick is the best game to get to play all season. Or no, actually the best game to get to play all season was Wolves at Home this year. But I'm going to pick the second best game.
01:16:01
Speaker
All right. And there's plenty of more to pick from this year than there were last year. But I'll turn it over to you. I like those picks. I really do. I'll try to go deep cut with each other. Yeah, yeah. I appreciate the deep cuts. So I'll go because I was planning on a few deep cuts. So I'm going to give
01:16:26
Speaker
A game and an honorable mention proceeding. So the honorable mention I won't elaborate on. My honorable mention, I'm going to give three honorable mentions. I could give five or six for the 2021 season. And I might give five or six. I'm just going to list them. Lester, away. Wolves at home. The villa, away.
01:16:55
Speaker
Palace away. And Wolves away and Burnley away. Those are going to be my honorable mentions for the 2020-2021 season. And those were all incredible games. But I'm going to go with the game that we didn't win in 2020-2021 season. And I'm going to say the Arsenal 3-3. Because you know what?
01:17:26
Speaker
As hindsight would have it, and hindsight is 20-20, we should have won that game. Benrahma was spectacular. Languard was spectacular. The Antonio Miss at 3-2 is a backbreaker. It's a heartbreaker. I'll never forget it. But that day was the day that I was like. And I probably should have thought it before that.
01:17:56
Speaker
But I think we were all a little shell shocked for weeks on end during that season. And that was before Wolves and Lester and even Burnley and even West Brom and Southampton. But that day was the day when I was like, this is a really good team.
01:18:14
Speaker
even though we absolutely threw away that game, we really, we really brought it to our small that day. And we should have won that game four or five, one, for being honest. I mean, just those first 30 minutes where, you know, something we've probably never seen it though, I would say. So really, it's memorable, I think is the reason I'm picking it. You know, we didn't win and it's a little bit of a corny pick because we didn't win, but it's,
01:18:45
Speaker
It's ingrained in my brain. And I think that if we're going to end this David Moore era, which, you know, it's a little bit of a shame we're having this conversation now, but it should be mentioned that game. That was a day in less than three. And, and, and, you know, when you say arsenal and people think back to that arsenal season, they think of the joke that they were.
01:19:11
Speaker
But by the time that we played that game. By the time that we played them, that second time, that was like the start of the arsenal we see now. Like Odegard was there. They were playing really well. They were like 13th from the table and they were climbing. Yeah. And they ended up eighth and they were in 16th for most of the season. Yeah. So that was a great team we did that against too.
01:19:41
Speaker
Honorable mention 21 22 Aston Villa away at Villa Park. The pick is going to be Liverpool at home. Has to be. Cannot go without talking about that game that is. Probably your best primarily game on them ways in this era, because obviously we 132, but it really, really could have been 4151.
01:20:07
Speaker
We gave them absolute hell in that second half, you know, both their goals are out of nothing. And in, I don't want to say nothing, situations, because obviously the triangle makes it one one. But we were on top against a team that was a title challenger. And it's a team that had not lost in 24, 25 games.
01:20:32
Speaker
and we played them off the park. I really don't think much else has to be said about that game. 2022, 2023, my honorable mention is going to be Leeds at Home, which was just the game. I mean, I was really hoping that was going to be your pick.
01:20:59
Speaker
We know it's going to be my honorable mention, but we can even talk about that one because that was the game where I was like. I mean, I would even say the Ghent at home game. Obviously I disqualified that because of how dominant we were. There was a 40 minute spell on that game on either side of halftime. Obviously the four or three goals. After halftime and even Bowman had to disallow the goal, which should never have been disallowed.
01:21:29
Speaker
Um, that, that's another game that made me feel this way, but I'm going to pick the leads game because it's a lead game. Just made me feel like we found it. Like, like we finally found what we were looking for all season, but, um, the game I'm going to go with from my pick.
01:21:48
Speaker
was West Ham United that won Manchester United now at home. Because we could have won that game two, three, four now. And we, again, played in the local park. And that was the game that I think that we really found it. Where we were just like, that was where we thought, I mean, Piqueta that day was sensational. I mean, that was the best that we saw the Piqueta-Suchak-Rice-Midfield 3 play. That was the best game we saw them play together.
01:22:18
Speaker
they absolutely played them off the part. And to be fair, it was a sign of weakness for Manchester United in the future, looking at how they're in the field that's played this year. I mean, that game blew me away that day. That was probably the happiest I was after a league game that year, everything that went into it. We knew we were safe after that day. We knew we had big European games coming up.
01:22:48
Speaker
Obviously, after these, we knew we had the final, but that day just really made you feel good about where that team is at. And then this year, my honorable mention will be, I know I mentioned goals before, so I won't use Tottenham 1, West Ham 2. That way, Hart Lane.
01:23:12
Speaker
I mean, the resilience that we showed that day was unbelievable. But the pick will be West Ham to Manchester United 1 at the London Stadium. Again, for whatever reason, they don't seem to like to come here. They don't seem to like to play at the London Stadium, play them off the park. Again, again, Paquetta, spectacular, Bowen, sensational, kudos in full flow.
01:23:41
Speaker
Uh, arguably our best defensive performance of the season. I know Enoch, our check for nacho had like two chances in the first half, but really they didn't have a sniff. When you think about it, it was zoom is the best game of the season. My response is really coming out party. That was his best game in 2023. Oh yeah. And we, um, you know, we really felt like we were going to win and I should mention the arsenal.
01:24:06
Speaker
the Arsenal game when we beat them to know that the Emirates, because if I'm correct, we are the only team to beat them at the Emirates this season. Which should not go. In the FA code? Not going to count it. But they might have, but in the Premier League, we are the only team to beat them at the Emirates, which is not something to be squaffed at. That was a very serious result.
01:24:37
Speaker
And I think people just forget how good we were then and how much good one reinforcement on the wing would have us. I, again, not to go all the way back, but I think it's the worst transfer decision made in the Moisara is not signing what claims January. I think it, I think it fucking killed us. I mean, the fact that we brought on Maxwell Cornet,
01:25:05
Speaker
in the biggest moment of our season goes to show the field. Yeah. When? I guess Leverkusen. There is sport, though, isn't there? Oh, no, no, no, no. You're right. You're right. Yeah. Again, that's about it. And I don't want to pile on Cornet. And he's had a horrendous time with injuries that we can't even really blame him for. But you're right. You're absolute. I mean,
01:25:32
Speaker
I even look at it more in between, you know, for now starting in Chef United than he left, than there was Bournemouth, than there was United than there was Arsenal. Those four fixtures in particular, especially the United one and the Bournemouth one, if you bring a left winger in to play those games
01:25:59
Speaker
like genuinely any left-winger which you can chalk up the noise like there's rumors of the Zaha thing and that noise in the one side but like I think I think and to be honest I know like this might be taking pressure off noise but I think Sullivan has a thrust to signing on him it's not like he hasn't done it before with things and I know that noise like approved things in the end but
01:26:28
Speaker
I think you have to force him to take somebody, don't you? Like, I don't know. I think that that is really where the season went downhill. Obviously, the Phillips failing too hurts, but the lack of a reinforcement on that left wing is just terrible. Yeah. I mean, I guess they didn't find who they wanted out there. We spent a lot of time chasing after Osman. I'm telling you, this is my thing, is Nellis Sarr.
01:26:56
Speaker
I don't care if Marseille didn't want a loan move or they wanted a loan to buy, do it. We sold 32, 33 million pounds worth of players in January. Just spend 14 to 19 million on a winger. Because in my personal opinion, that could be the difference. Newcastle lost today. That could be the difference.
01:27:24
Speaker
It very easily could be the difference between the two points that keep us in eighth or ninth, or the two or three points that put us up in the seventh or eighth and sixth. I can do it. And I'm actually going to disagree. I do, you know, we need a left winger, but it wasn't worse than signing Calvin Phillips. I just think that a panic buy would have been fine then.
01:27:54
Speaker
And the thing about it is I do understand that like, you know, in the long run, it might pay off. It might. It really might, but I, I don't know. I mean, it's just such a ridiculous, ridiculous thing to do. And I couldn't believe that we did it at the time. Like, I only came to terms with it like four hours, three hours before the deadline.
01:28:20
Speaker
Because I just was so sure. I was so sure that we would give that squad a left man. Especially, I mean, Paquetta was out, man. Like, Paquetta was out for another month. Like, what are we doing? Yeah, I mean, Paquetta had kudos. Right? Because he was an athlete. Kudos was back by then. For, for, for his back. But anyways, you know,
01:28:48
Speaker
Tell us if you guys agree that that January decision not to sign a left window is the worst one of the Moyes ever. Tell us if you think it's on Moyes. Tell us if you think it's on Sidon.
Closing Reflections & Listener Engagement
01:28:58
Speaker
Tell us if you think it's on Sullivan. Tell us if you think that this decision to let Moyes go in the end is, you know, a little bit of a brutal one. I know that you spent a lot of this episode gassing Moyes, but I think, you know, it's deserved that there are things on first and that he deserved to reflect and enjoy what he's done. And also to talk about
01:29:17
Speaker
why maybe this isn't the best course of action, especially, and we didn't talk about this as much, but you know, if we don't get Amorim or Fonseca or even Hunzi flip one of these top targets, then what happens? You know what I mean? And I think it's very much worth
01:29:37
Speaker
Acknowledging the risk that comes with essentially, I know we haven't done it publicly or officially, but essentially, you know, telling a manager that he's done with six games to go. And if we downgrade, where do we go from here, from the position that we're in? I think it's a huge risk to take. But yeah.
01:30:00
Speaker
Let us know on Twitter at hammering underscore away. Obviously on Instagram at hammering away underscore. TikTok is hammering.away and our blog is hammering-away.blog. Thank you everybody for listening and we'll talk to you next week.
01:31:52
Speaker
So.
01:33:02
Speaker
So.