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Hammering Away Ep #34 - End of an Era?
67 Plays1 year ago
On today's episode of the podcast, Jack and Joe discuss West Ham's 2-0 defeat to Fulham, if David Moyes' time is up, if we can turn around our Europa League Quarterfinal Tie against Bayer Leverkusen, and more!
Music by: LADI OGUN & @ANTlll
Blog: Hammering-Away.blog
Twitter/X: @Hammering_Away
Instagram/Threads: @HammeringAway_
Tiktok: @hammering.away
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Transcript
Podcast Introduction and Audio Upgrade
00:00:25
Speaker
Welcome back to the hammering away podcast. Um, as always, it's your two hosts, Jack and Joe, you're hearing a difference in my quality. I got a birthday present, which is pretty exciting. So this is the new hammering away podcast where my voice isn't coming through a half broken Mac book speaker. Um, if you're, if your friends have ever listened to the hammering away podcast and been
00:00:50
Speaker
turned off by poor sound quality, tell them to get back in. Because we are honestly, honestly, dude, I think it was bad. I never said anything. It was really bad. And like, if it wasn't if it wasn't us, I don't think I would listen to us. Yeah, absolutely. And we're back with Yeah, good sound quality for for over a year of terrible sound quality.
00:01:19
Speaker
half of you sticking around if we go by the stats. But yeah, have a mic again, pretty exciting stuff.
Concerns Over West Ham's Season
00:01:30
Speaker
West Ham United, not pretty exciting stuff. I'm gonna let you start today because I'm tired. I'm really tired. Yeah, I mean, listen, the lever cues and tie is one thing. Like we ran into a buzzsaw, like quite frankly,
00:01:48
Speaker
and got outclassed. Like, I thought we set up fine. The individual efforts for the most part, for the most part, we're fine. Now we'll get to that, that exception. But Sunday is really, really concerning. And concerning doesn't even begin to convey how fucked we are. Because that was the season effectively, unless like a miracle happens where we
00:02:18
Speaker
beat Liverpool and City. Yeah. So I didn't mean to cut you off, but I was just going to say that I do think that these last two games mean our season is done in terms of competing for where we want to be competing.
00:02:38
Speaker
I know that we're still within a shout, points wise, but the fixtures are really difficult and the teams around us, not only for the most part are the easier fixtures, but also have games in hand. And we know how resilient the squad is, and especially how resilient all of Moyza's squads have been. So it wouldn't necessarily surprise me if we were just to find one last way out, but
00:03:03
Speaker
I will say I do not think it's happening. I don't necessarily have hope that it's happening. I think I really do think that the full game could be the last nail in his coffin, whether he's burying himself or not, because he has a contract on the table, allegedly, according to him.
Future of Manager David Moyes
00:03:22
Speaker
And I mean, I believe there's no reason for him to lie about that.
00:03:26
Speaker
But, you know, they could pull that. He could walk away from it. I do think that that Fulham game is it for Moyes. Which, you know, everybody's going to have different opinions on whether that's fair or not, whether it's harsh or not. We can maybe get into that. I feel like that topic is tired and everybody's, you know, nailed down on one side by now. But I do think that we're going to have a different manager next season.
00:03:56
Speaker
Yeah, it just feels like based on the reports and that all the reports are super accurate from last summer. Moise really had to do something to like, earn his spot, which is sad because he's, you know, done, you know, he's done miracles on this club and he's earned everything that he could ever possibly want here. But
00:04:25
Speaker
It seems like it's my, my like feeling for the situation, uh, was that he was like presumed to be gone at the end of the season. And unless he pulled off some sort of miraculous season, which he very nearly, very nearly did. Cause it's finishing top seven with this team would have been a miracle. Uh, it looks like we're going to come up a bit short, but, um, it looks like it looks, it seems like.
00:04:55
Speaker
that is what we would have taken especially since there's no contract on the table or since like his contract ends in the summer excuse me um it's gonna be sad to be sad but i i think that's where we're at it's interesting to me um because he he says that there's a contract on the table for him right now if that's true it almost comes across as if he is
00:05:23
Speaker
deciding if he wants to come back. Because, you know, in a way, if he feels he's being hounded out, he's not somebody who's gonna, he doesn't need a paycheck. You know what I mean? He's done more than enough with us that if he wants another job, he will get one. Certainly. Which I truly hope he doesn't, at least not in England. He can go, he can go manage Celtic. I would love that for him, but I can't have him coming back to the ball.
00:05:53
Speaker
Um, but look, I, I, I think that he has done enough to stay on for next season.
Team Dependency on Key Players
00:06:03
Speaker
I think that this run a form in 2024 has been hugely concerning. I do think that to some extent we are pretty one dimensional. Um, I guess with Antonio, we have kind of another option.
00:06:19
Speaker
But the way that we play, it's very reliant on Paquetta to be able to really carry such a huge load in terms of creating with passing ability and, you know, moving the ball up the pitch. Nobody else does it on a consistent basis besides Kudus when he carries it. I know that we all love Kudus, but I think that his
00:06:44
Speaker
I for a pass leaves a lot to be desired. It's not that he can't make the pass. It's not that he doesn't make the pass. Sometimes it's that I don't know if he doesn't want to. I think he, he's such a good dribbler that he, that's on himself, which he's absolutely in the right to do. I'm not, this isn't really a shot at him because you know, you have to have different players that compliment each other. Um, but then, you know, been around when for now is go, you don't replace them. The Phillips sign turns out to be a disaster. And now you're left with the squad with.
00:07:13
Speaker
12 guys we can trust 13. Isn't that something that Calvin Phillips, the guy who David Moyes has sought after for three years is what is eventually going to put him out of a job. Like that is, I would say that I would say it's a direct cause considering we have left about six points on the table, at least just from Calvin Phillips mistakes.
00:07:42
Speaker
I do think if we finished in a Europa League place, he would be around next year. Yeah. Thanks, Calvin Phillips. You fucking ruined my life. I mean, not to be... Because for the record, I would enjoy if Moi stayed on next year because I think...
00:08:03
Speaker
that he's shown enough. And this isn't the run of form. Well, actually, I mean, I guess it is a lot like the run of form at the end of 21-22, which led him to a disaster next season. But we also tried to change a lot. I don't think that we would try to change as much. And I'd be happy to have him back next season. But there are things to potentially get excited about a new manager. Obviously, it depends on the hire. And it's a huge risk.
00:08:31
Speaker
It's a huge risk. I don't think people truly grasp how much of a risk it is and how unstabilizing it can be, which is crazy when you look back at where we were after our dice. We had the good season with Village.
00:08:48
Speaker
carried by Piatt and Upton Park. He's terrible, go to Moyes, and you flip it around again, you get Pellegrini. And weird is a very unstable club that really had a few chances of going down over the course of five or six years. And now you bring in Moyes, and not only are you stable, you are competing for European places.
West Ham's European Journey
00:09:09
Speaker
You won a European trophy. You've gone to Europa League semi-final. You have gained legitimate European pedigree in three years.
00:09:19
Speaker
We can defend the European pedigree. And just, yeah. Go ahead. Okay. And just to finish up my thought, all of that has happened when you've lost Mark Noble. You're a club captain. There's been no time in the years. I don't know the number off the top of my head right now. But he's somebody who, he is West Ham United. So you lose that leadership.
00:09:49
Speaker
Then you lose deck the next summer and we've still managed to fight for a European place until late April. And we'll, we'll be fighting for it until the final day until that Chelsea result puts us in a coffin, which is just amazing. Yeah. The stability is something that cannot go understated.
00:10:13
Speaker
And to bring, to deliver that to a team as unstable as this club, as unstable as it was before he got here, um, both times really, um, is, it's really changed the trajectory of this, of this entity that is West Ham United. It's completely redefined it. Um, just like I was telling you before.
00:10:38
Speaker
before the podcast started while I was looking through my old texts. And I was telling a good friend of the podcast that in November of 2020, I told them that finishing top 10 would be a miracle. It would be beautiful, beautiful result. And here we are complaining about finishing ninth. The standards at this club have been totally changed. That's totally down to the manager.
00:11:10
Speaker
And he's created a culture. He's brought standards. He has, like when he came back to the London stadium, all we had was a carpet. A carpet and a dream. A carpet and a dream. And we had a dream. And you know, we have been so good at home. Like really our home form has only dropped off in 2024.
00:11:36
Speaker
Like, we've been so good at home under Moise, we've had so many big results at home, so many big nights at home in a stadium that felt foreign to us for years. He's turned along the stadium to home, he's seen us through, you know, noble going, deck going. And, you know, in a lot of different other realities, any one of those moves or those occurrences could have buried us.
00:12:04
Speaker
And he is right when he says that this team, this year lacks leadership. He's absolutely right. Yep. And I actually object to you saying that we had a dream in 2020 when he got back, because we didn't even have that. We had a dream that Halair would play. I don't even know if we had that dream. We just had a dream of winning the championship next season.
00:12:31
Speaker
That's what people forget. We genuinely thought that we were going to go down. When we lost to Newcastle on the opening day of the 2020-21 season, people genuinely thought many West Ham fans, including us, were very fearful of the drop. And then we lost to Arsenal the next week. You played well in that game. I was doom and gloom. I can't lie.
00:12:56
Speaker
I don't care about how well we played. He should have brought on Felipe earlier though in that game. I'll say that much. I was furious with how he chose these food games that day. Well, yeah, that that's a whole, we'll get into Felipe later. I promise. We will talk about Felipe. My main concern with the new manager is like, how much higher can we go?
00:13:23
Speaker
Like truly, what is the, what is the peak has to be to maintain.
Managerial Risks and Rewards
00:13:28
Speaker
Yeah. Maintain. Um, David was not the perfect guy to do that. Yes. Cause he, he instills consistency and work ethic and, and like values onto a club that bring consistency when players leave and leadership rolls over.
00:13:53
Speaker
Like David Moyes is, you know, just his imprint on the club is what has kept us at this level. Um, regardless of what anyone else wants to tell you, uh, and a new manager.
00:14:07
Speaker
I just don't know what we're really bringing in. Obviously, David Moyes is not the best manager in the world. There's really not many that are better than him that are attainable. And I'm really concerned how risky this is for the reward, which I'm not very clear on what that is exactly.
00:14:33
Speaker
I totally agree with the last part that you said about the risk versus reward of this whole situation, because how much better is the reward than really where we've been in the last four years. I do want to get into potential managerial targets, but one last thing I want to say about Moi is, and some of these things are cliche, but they're very real. There are not many coaches in world sports. Me and you have the next, so we see it with kids too.
00:15:03
Speaker
But there are not many coaches who get the level of buy-in from his players at Moist Guts, the level of togetherness from his players at Moist Guts, and the level of effort from his players at Moist Guts. Those are very underrated things that a manager brings. And the hardest thing to do as a new manager, especially when he was coming into a club that had really no identity at that time and no culture, the hardest thing to do is to build a culture.
00:15:31
Speaker
that players want to be a part of and that players buy into. It's one of the most overlooked parts of management or coaching in all sports because that's where it all starts. If your team does not have an identity, if they don't feel that they play a certain way, I mean like West Ham, like what are we? We are. I know people who get upset about this phrase because it hasn't been true lately, but under Moise we have been hard to beat.
00:15:54
Speaker
We have counter-attack ruthlessly, and we've dominated both boxes. That's our identity. We are tough, we're physical, and we're... I won't say we're fast because we haven't had any fast players before. Produce really, but we attacked quickly. That's what we did. And that's what we did every direct yet. That's what we did every game. When you think about us in the Pellegrini, we wanted to keep the ball, I guess.
00:16:23
Speaker
But it's our identity. Can't really say much more. Our identity under Billich, especially after, our identity under Billich was Pyatt. And I mean, that team played genuinely West Ham by football at the last season of the park, or at Upton Park. I was going to say the building. But after that, it's just the identity was chaos and conceding goals and individual mistakes.
00:16:49
Speaker
So people have to realize how important like stability and those things, because the thing about it is that, yeah, you want to finish behind the table and words like stability and togetherness and hard work and culture aren't sexy, but those things are what create what we've done over the last three or 40 years possible. And I think that really needs to be more knowledge because the new manager is going to have to build that too. Yeah. I mean,
00:17:19
Speaker
Even the, even the guys who, even the coaches who are like the tactical masterminds, quote unquote, um, I don't really like that phrase, but like the guys that people look to like Tedda and Pat and clap, like these guys are great man managers. If they weren't able to do the things that Moise does so well, they wouldn't be in the places that they're in. Like there have been plenty of guys who, who know like the X's and O's and who just can't get their team to buy in because you can, you can put in
00:17:49
Speaker
whatever system you want, but if you don't, if you don't have all 11 guys working towards it, it's worthless. Who builds a better culture and gets more buy-in in world football than you're in club? Seriously. Yeah. Nobody in the world of this game gets better buy-in and harder work. And even togetherness, I mean, this Liverpool squad, this Liverpool squad really be challenging for the league.
00:18:20
Speaker
No, not as currently constructed. And it's just, it's frustrating because the conversation has been so watered down into nonsense that it's, because you know what, Moi's, I'm not gonna say totally got it wrong on something because you really did start hot and there are a lot of other world who could have been up one or two early, but he definitely didn't get it right.
00:18:45
Speaker
And we were played through far too easily. I think more prowess instead of suit check is the wrong pick. And because we needed, if you're going with those two midfielders and the two of top, you need, and suit check's not an athletic freak either, but he's bigger, he's longer, he's more combative than more prowess. That's what he needed in that midfield, that thing. That's not what he wanted. And he got that wrong. He rested Zuma, I get it. He got that wrong. Like these are-
00:19:15
Speaker
We got things wrong. I'm not saying anything right, but it's just we need to understand that finishing 6th, 7th, 14th in a trophy and eighth or ninth is not a fireable offense. No. He's not getting fired. He's getting let go. I think there is a difference. He's getting let go and getting fired.
00:19:44
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. But it's just, it shouldn't have gone this sour. And then, you know, I didn't want to talk about this guy, but I'm going to mention you have people like Claire and booze. It's honestly, as a collective, you need to stop posting about him. You need to stop interacting with his content. He should not be given a platform because the things that he says are dangerous. It's just,
00:20:10
Speaker
And it's a character assassination to an extent. He's saying that Moyes doesn't give. He doesn't care that George Earthie was unconscious on the pitch. He doesn't care. He said that he heard from people on the staff. He personally heard from them that they didn't understand, like they didn't know what was wrong with Moyes. And people believe this guy. And it's like, it's not okay for him to have a platform.
00:20:40
Speaker
That's what I'll leave it at. Yeah, it's kind of crazy because, you know, obviously the people on Twitter, you know, West End Twitter is a bit of a bubble, no pun intended, in terms of, you know, people, no really buys his shit on Twitter.
00:20:58
Speaker
Um, everyone kind of knows he's a Charlton and like, just met like making up nonsense, but he does have a really big following on YouTube. And if even 10% of his following believe that David Moyes like just didn't care that a 19 year old like kid that was like, you know, his play, he gave his primarily debut to, by the way, people are saying that he sent them on there in a dead game. He was on the touchline ready to come on at one nil.
00:21:27
Speaker
Like he was sending him on for a purpose. And he's sending him on because he deserves it. And so what if it's a dead game? So many players get their debuts in a dead game. George Earthly got his actual debut in a dead game. That we were winning, 5-0. Exactly. Chances, you can't hide. There's no such thing as a perfect chance when you're bringing up these young guys.
Young Talent: George Earthy
00:21:54
Speaker
And getting a chance at all is
00:21:57
Speaker
is an incredibly meaningful thing. And George Earthie knows that for sure, because he posted it on his Instagram. Yeah, it's just ridiculous. You can talk about somebody and you can, I guess you can disagree with how somebody manages a team. I don't really see it to the extent that Claire and Booze does. But yeah, it's downright disgusting. And
00:22:28
Speaker
It's mind-blowing the way that he talks about noise. And you know, it's mind-blowing that some people on the other side talk about noise too, but at least they're just so thankful for him that we won a trophy. But like, Clare and Blues is not critiquing him. Clare and Blues is not critiquing him. He's calling him evil and saying that he didn't care that a 19-year-old kid almost had a life-changing injury. With no basis for that.
00:22:57
Speaker
No, but he said that Martin, he said that Marco Silva looked concerned. Is he in the dugout? Analyzing facial expressions? Like, what are we doing here? And, you know, it's just an unrealistic, like, like, George Arthur has been training with the team for what? I two years now. I mean, two years, but like this end of last season, like, all this season. Yeah. Um, these guys clearly have like a relationship.
00:23:27
Speaker
David always definitely loves this kid and is only giving him a debut because he's gotten to the point where he trusts him to the extent that he's putting him in his senior team. And that doesn't just come from him just being around for that long. They clearly have a close relationship. And he said that he wanted to give him a chance earlier.
00:23:54
Speaker
You know, I think that there are things more, it's going to be better in terms of giving you chance. Um, cause he's not the risk taker in that way, but that's also fine. Cause you have to be careful with these kids about, you know, and if he has been giving up, he's got two appearances now in season. Like would you, would anybody have expected anything more from George Earthie this year? No, but you know what?
00:24:20
Speaker
Injury aside, he looked damn good. He looked damn good. The thing about him is that, and we've talked about him probably on this podcast before, me and you have talked about him a lot. He's one of the ones that I really like. And we've talked about it's the easiness on the ball. It's like when he moves with the ball, he looks like a professional player.
00:24:44
Speaker
You know what I mean? He looks like somebody that you watch. When you watch these youth games, sometimes you see guys on the ball, even move on to an extent where I think has a lot of still great intangibles for a top-level striker, and obviously knows where the net is. He's definitely raw, and he's trying to figure it out. It's up to him if he wants to sign a contract and figure it out here. I hope he does, because he's not going to turn on a kid for really no reason. A lot of our family seems to enjoy the youth sometimes.
00:25:15
Speaker
But it's just the, the easiness and the silkiness on the ball. And like, he, you know, did seem a little nervous. I thought like he was being saved with his passes, but then he got a few touches and then he kind of played a nice pass or suit check and released him in the space. And, you know, I wish he got to see out for those last 10 minutes of his debut, but it's, you know, it's a positive thing now that we know he's okay and he's awake. Um, you know, more power to him. Hopefully, you know, it's just a regular concussion. There's no neck issues.
00:25:43
Speaker
He can like rest up, maybe take these next two weeks. Maybe we see him on the pitch. Maybe we see him on the pitch against Chelsea. Maybe the city game is dead when he plays. I think Luca is sitting out the city game in order to give him a better chance. What Luca Speteta doesn't know is that city would have a better chance if he just gets out there and he plays like he has been like. Yeah, if he just throws a temper tantrum as he has been. For two straight games.
00:26:13
Speaker
Um, but I'd like to just finish on, on earthy. Um, it is like, I guess it's pretty easy to like look a level above, um, at the U 21 level and look like especially comfortable on the ball for, for his age. Um, but he went on the pitch in a senior game. Um, and not only did he look the part, but he showed up a lot.
00:26:42
Speaker
of the players on that pitch that day, a lot of them wearing claret and blue. And it just, he injected a level of intensity that we didn't see that day, a level of quality that we haven't seen that day. And that's the big thing with him, is that you could immediately tell that he was a guy
00:27:05
Speaker
who was good on the ball. You can turn on any game in any league in the world. And you can immediately say, see which players in the pitch are the ball players. And as a 19-year-old kid who's just stepping out there, you could tell he's one of the guys who walks the ball on his feet. And another thing I'll say is as much as I'm not happy with Lucas Progetta right now, he's been really an embarrassment for a few weeks now and longer if you really don't like him.
00:27:35
Speaker
But for a player to get this quality to A, obviously he likes him because he posted on his story after he was debuted against Ryberg, calling him what a player and all that kind of stuff. And as soon as he came on the pitch,
00:27:48
Speaker
Paquetta's given him the ball. And Erdie's given it back, and Paquetta's given it straight back to him and telling him to go do something with it. Which, you know what, that's another thing. Because people forget, these first-team players aren't seeing these kids for the first time when they come on the pitch with them. They've been training with him for months. So Paquetta knows what he is, he knows what he's about, and he has the confidence in him to give him the ball and, you know, go do something with it. Which I think also says a lot.
00:28:18
Speaker
Oh, absolutely. A lot of these kids, they come on. We've seen plenty of debuts over the years. And for the most part, they come on and they kind of just get lost in the game. They're just not hiding, but they struggle to make a true imprint. And we've seen that with a few of Obama's appearances.
00:28:45
Speaker
But Earthview was not only from the moment he stepped on the pitch, he was involved in a major way. And I think that just goes to the level of confidence he has in himself and the confidence that his teammates have in him. And it was just a very promising, what is it, eight minutes? Yeah, three minutes, I think, actually. Three minutes, geez. Six touches.
00:29:13
Speaker
Yeah, so his six touches were the sole bright spot of what was a dismal, dismal day in the Mois era. And it came to an end with a tragic, terrible concussion. And it's just like the kind of thing where it happens and you're like, wow, it really is just not our day.
00:29:35
Speaker
And I'm not comparing the deck, because obviously I do not think they'll be anywhere near the level of player that deck on ice is. But in its own weird way, it was kind of similar. His few touches, again, because we're not getting too ahead of ourselves, but his few touches were similar when deck came on and what really was a dead game against Manchester United in the 2017-18 season, which was the second appearance we played at Four Minutes against Burnout in the season before.
00:30:03
Speaker
He passed the ball around, he was crisp with his passing, and he looked like he belonged. Another one, I mean, Ben Johnson, obviously not the same player on the ball, but Ben Johnson starts his first game Cityway against Riedemarz. What happened to Riedemarz, he was hooked like the 63rd man. You can tell when one of these kids looks like they belong. I do want to circle back though, and I want to talk about some potential
00:30:32
Speaker
managers for the next year.
Speculating New Managers
00:30:35
Speaker
I think the fun way to do this is I'm going to give you a name and you're going to give me like 30 seconds on a yes or no and why. Okay. All right. I'm going to start off with a weird one. Oh, already done their social. Oh, yeah, honestly. Yeah. I think, I think that the,
00:31:03
Speaker
The state of Manchester United, since he's left, has been very kind to him, actually. He had some very impressive finishes in there when, in retrospect, those squads that he was dealing with were not very good. I wonder what it would be like, what kind of place out he would bring here.
00:31:31
Speaker
Because, you know, like the way he played over there was like, it's like the Manchester United way of playing football. Which I guess in the way they played, they were also a counterattacking team. That's what I can say. That's why about. Yeah, I can see a lot of like the players that we have currently playing a part under Ole. He would love Jared Bowen. Well, certainly love Jared Bowen.
00:31:59
Speaker
Yeah. Why, why the hell not? You know, we're getting rid of boys. Why the hell not? I could also definitely talk myself into it. Uh, he wouldn't be the very tippy top of my list, but he, um, he definitely brings qualities that suit our players. And I think the way he got United playing in space, it would be the joy to watch here. And I think he, he would improve something how we play with the ball. That, that whole, um,
00:32:27
Speaker
of the old school of managing between Olay and Michael Carrick, obviously at Middlesbrough doing a great job, and McKenna at Ipswich doing an unbelievable job, that whole little trio of managers who have come out of that. I forget, who was that staff that he was on? Was it, was it Merino staff? It was Merino staff, right?
00:32:55
Speaker
Was it? I don't know. I can't remember. Um, you know, all the guys who come out of that staff have really been successful in management. And I think Manchester United might've just been too big of a job for him. Who's to say he wouldn't succeed here. Um, but yeah, but also like, was it too big for him? He really, I guess it wasn't accomplished more than, than Eric Tanhag has in the, in the following three years, unless it's too big for Tanhag too.
00:33:23
Speaker
And I mean United haven't spent money well under anybody. Another thing I would say about OLE is that theoretically, of course, if Simon could sell him on this, I never liked OLE's tendencies in the transfer market, I'll call it. I hated the Jaden Sancho signing from day one.
00:33:46
Speaker
He was just very, yeah, he's a little erratic. And you know, you can tell he means well with the players he signs and he sees things that he likes. And there are obviously things in Jadon Sancho that make him a good player. But I think OA could even be helped out by having a technical director who has a lot of control.
00:34:06
Speaker
So if Stydon is basically, you know, just being like, give me profiles of what you need, I'll find it. Or they're working together, but Stydon is really wanting to control it. I think that that could be really good for a manager like that. I think it's good for a lot of managers in modern game. It's really how the modern game works. Moy is an anomaly. Whether people like it or not, he's been great in the transfer market throughout his entire career and has been great in the transfer market here. Whether the Phillips signing missed, whether you didn't like last summer and how it ended. Not the coup summer, the pick up the summer.
00:34:35
Speaker
Calvin Phyllis is a good signing. Calvin Phyllis is just not a good sign. No, I'm with you. He just sucks. But like I said, going to the tippy top of my list, at least early on, because I'm sure once this gets real, if this gets real, which hopefully doesn't, because it's a whole other exhausting thing in the summer where we're going to have to make moves. So I hope if we do go for manager, it's done early. But somebody who caught my eye when we were going after Pellegrini, who I wanted,
00:35:04
Speaker
And who is a piece of me earlier today a stale link But could be refreshed is Paulo Fancetta at Lille I feel about that one Yeah, I mean He's been a good manager he You know in terms of guys who he's definitely the most impressive manager out of Ligue 1 since he got a Lille I've watched them in like
00:35:34
Speaker
I haven't watched Leon like maybe two seasons, but when I used to watch them play all the time, I mean, I did enjoy the way they played. I would be open to them. It would be certainly a culture shock in terms of like completely different styles of play. And it would definitely call on the question, you know, who can stay and find a place in this new system.
00:36:02
Speaker
He's what people are asking for, though. Off the top of my head, I'm sure if we have to do more homework on this, we will. But off the top of my head, if people really want high tempo, exciting, like on the front foot football,
00:36:17
Speaker
I think he's one of the best candidates out there for that because he also showed at Shaqar that he can adjust and he can play against bigger team and play without the ball. Because he got them into the knockout stages of the Champions League, which is an achievement in itself. Not to mention, I'm not sure if he was the manager who won the league with Will. No, he wasn't. He was the year after, or two years after. Yeah, I think it was Gaultier there. Yeah, it was.
00:36:45
Speaker
Um, but I think he could be very, very exciting. And like you said, a culture shock. And you know, like if Moyes has to go and we're going to try this whole, you know, with, you know, uptempo football thing again, which it does remain to be seen like how successful can that be at a club like ours over an extended period of time. And the cracks are already appearing up right in.
00:37:10
Speaker
obviously a smaller part than us. And I mean, people talk about Emory and Villa, but Villa are also very, very good out of possession, very good at volleyball, and are ruthless on counter-attack. But I do think that's something that Fun Second could implement, especially considering, you know, he was able to adjust and play a volleyball or check up. So he's another really interesting candidate.
00:37:35
Speaker
Yeah. He's also adjusted a ton at Leo. There were times where Jonathan David was a guy whose career was sputtering. Yeah. He's mad. Yeah. I don't know if they still play this, but I know to help him re-spark things, they did a two-striker formation and that like sparked his re-sparked career.
00:38:04
Speaker
I know that Fonseca really likes a 4-2-3-1 with a goal scoring number 10. So who does that sound like to you? I got a certain Ghanaian in mind. I know a guy. I don't know a guy. James Ward-Prowse. James Ward-Prowse. Another manager who's been linked to West Ham recently, former Manchester United manager. This one's never going to happen, but it's a fun one.
00:38:33
Speaker
is Jose Mourinho. Did you say yes or no to that? I'm formal for it. I don't even care. I don't even care if it would be bad. I'm not interested. For the record, I would rather keep Mois than hire me. I mean, I'd rather keep Mois than hire anybody. But like, I'd rather the other two. Are there any guys who you would want over Mois?
00:39:02
Speaker
No, because I just don't see the point. Fonseca is honestly the closest because here's my thing. I love Moors and I think that we play some good stuff at times. I think we play better stuff than we're given credit for by West Ham fans and by other fans. And we've shown that a million different times. But if Moors does have to go and we're really going to do this, yeah, let's change the culture. Let's
00:39:26
Speaker
really go for this and let's hire Fonseca and let's play this high-tempo football. Like, let's do it. Like, fuck it. You know what I mean? That's just kind of where I stand on it. Because I also like Fonseca, and I think it could be very exciting, and it would be refreshing. Because Moy's ball, like, Sunday was Google. There's no way around that. It was terrible. Because when we get into those games where we have a lot of the ball, and we're going out wide, we're whipping it in, we're going out wide and we're whipping it in,
00:39:54
Speaker
And then we're relying on the type to try to make things happen in the half space. If he's playing like Arbridge, it's exhausting. But a lot of these other things, every manager in the world, especially that we're going to get, will have traits in his teams that are exhausting. People have to come to grips with that. Fonseca could come, and we could not sign the right in the field there. And then we could get ripped apart. Yep.
00:40:22
Speaker
You know what, if Fonseca comes and he doesn't work out, we just hire Moiz again. Yeah. You think he would come back for a third time? A third? Sorry, we made a mistake. If he walks out the door on us, maybe, but I don't think so. I think he would have another job before we had the chance. How WWE would that be, though? If he came back for a third time, I would.
00:40:56
Speaker
I would love it, dude. I'd be here for it. Like if, if we hire a new manager and we start off poorly, I'll be calling for mores in October. Just for fun. Just for the jokes. Yeah. I'll probably be calling for mores after every loss, just cause it's funny. Yeah. This would have never happened. And just something else, like people don't understand.
00:41:25
Speaker
They want to see great football. I think everybody wants to see that, but like we also want to win. And I think people use like the set piece thing as like a slap in the face to them and doing the whole, to rely on set pieces thing, which, you know, we have been at times over the last four years, but I think people underestimate how important it is to win on the margins and how much of a luxury that really is to have is even, this is probably,
00:41:52
Speaker
I think we've probably defended corners worse this season than any of the other seasons I can remember. And we've still defended them generally well, probably above average. And we've scored a ton of corners in set pieces. And I think that people need to understand that goals are goals. And if you take those away, now we're not like the 7th highest scoring human.
00:42:17
Speaker
Like, do you really think that we're going to replace that amount of goals in open play? It's hard to score in open play. It is hard to do. You know, which, which team is, is, can, can credit a lot of their success this season on set pieces? Arsenal. Arsenal football club. Yep. They're going to, they didn't win the league last year and they're going to win the league this year. And the reason for that being they got so good at set pieces this season.
00:42:45
Speaker
And because they signed up for nice and because we're going to beat city on the final day. Yes. All these are contributing factors. And if they if they lose the title, it will also be because of the price. Yeah, he is. Yeah. What a time you have your first real thinker. I didn't watch either.
00:43:04
Speaker
And to be honest, I genuinely doubt he was as fat as some of these Arsenal fans are making it out to be, but he definitely didn't have a good game. I'll tell you that. Yeah, that's what I'm hearing. He didn't score. No, he didn't have a goal to bail out another garbage-ass performance. No. Miss you, deck. You really helped us a lot this year. We do miss deck a lot. I mean, I've brought it up before. Can we just acknowledge that now, please?
00:43:31
Speaker
Like, yeah, we miss a world-class midfielder. And emotions are gone. As good as Alvarez is, like, the level of athlete that Rice is, and this is something I cry about on this podcast all the time, is how important athletes are, especially in the midfield and primarily. It's why I didn't want to work out in the first place. And while I love James Workhouse, and while he's done a lot of great things for us, including those margins that I'm talking about, he's had a great first half of the season, and pretty not good second half of the season. But he said, look,
00:44:02
Speaker
He'll be a player for us for a while and I'm happy to have him. That's a squad piece, happy to have him. But the lack of athleticism is killer. It's killer in the midfield in the city. And it's what contributes to a lot of his bad performances. Usually when he's bad, he's ghosting and he can't get close to anybody. And that's the most annoying part of it is like,
00:44:29
Speaker
When he's bad, it's just like, he's not even, it's like we're, we're playing with 10 guys. Like he's making no impact on the game whatsoever. And he's, he's one of those players that you would hope would, you know, stamp some authority on the game sometimes. Um, but James, like I was going to say, if we are going to talk bad about a midfielder today, it's not going to be James. We're proud. It's going to be, it's going to be number 10.
00:44:58
Speaker
Are we going to have this conversation now? We'll, we'll, we'll do it quickly. Cause I, I'm really sick of him getting booked against another person. The way that he did was irresponsible, disrespectful, and disgusting. It's I don't care that you got fouled before that. You cannot react like that, especially when you know you're on a yellow card. I know for a fact coaching staff has told you on your yellow card, you are well aware of it in a tie where we need you and you do that. And then after the five or 10 minutes after, he's totally out of it mentally.
00:45:29
Speaker
He did better in the second half when he got moved up front to help us keep the ball. He starts off the full game well and with energy, and then the passes just get aimless. Now, the full performance is terrible. It's horrendous. He's had worse ones, honestly, in recent weeks. The first half of this world is unacceptable. They're just not good enough for a player of his quality, and he needs to get these simple things right.
00:45:56
Speaker
Great players do the simple things right. And he will, at City, he'll get it right. Cause he's a super new talented player with amazing technical ability and Pep is going to turn him into a robot. Having said all that, he has a lot of responsibility on his shoulders creatively. And honestly, we give him the ball and we look at him and we wait.
00:46:25
Speaker
Yeah, we expect him to make something out of nothing. We expect him to be Dimitri Payet. He is not. He is not Dimitri Payet. He can't do that. He's not good enough to do that. He's just not quick enough. And he doesn't have the improv like that. He's just not good enough to do that. And that's okay.
00:46:47
Speaker
Other guys have to step up and take responsibility. Kudus is really the only other one who tries. Bowman does try when he's out on that wing, but he's been, you know, upfront and isolated for a lot of the year, doing a really thankless job. But I mean, he's got plenty of things where he's got 15 goals. But like there just has to be someone else in the team willing to take a chance and do something.
00:47:13
Speaker
You know, Antonio is the one who's come back and done that a little bit and, you know, helped us find a little bit of form, especially the fry bird game and the filler game. And then we pass it down and it was good. But, and just to make sure it's all right. And Leverkusen. And Leverkusen.
00:47:35
Speaker
This is why, you know, selling him A is not the worst thing in the world because he's super frustrated and is worth the 85, worth getting 85 million to us. It's probably worth getting 75 million to us if it's being serious. If Citi want to negotiate it down and we're backed up against the wall, fine. Take 75. You cannot go lower than 70. It's not enough of a profit. I don't care how angry anybody is. That is not enough of a profit for player A of his caliber and B that you spend 51 million pounds on.
00:48:04
Speaker
you have to get at least 25 million pounds properly. Preferably 3035. Well, let's insist on the 85. We will insist on the 85. I'm only saying that because I saw a report that said you're trying to negotiate it down. That's the only reason I'm actually not. I would be pretty upset if we negotiated it down. I'd rather just keep them at that point. I would be annoyed. It also depends how much of an effect we will have on our summer business, which I don't think it will have a huge one, but it will definitely help.
00:48:32
Speaker
But that's the thing. I think that over the summer, if the right movies are made, we can become a more well-balanced attack and have a more balanced diet of how we attack, rather than to get the pass, who shrivel, bow and shoot. Yeah, I think there's a very, like, Paquitz is an amazing player. He's,
00:48:57
Speaker
the main credit for our success this season. No doubt about that. Um, Alvarez. Yeah, of course. Yes. Yes. Like a hundred percent. Like I'm not saying he's the only good player on the team, but he is, he's, you know, central and just fucking and career. Um, but he is an indispensable reason.
00:49:26
Speaker
why we've achieved what we've achieved this season. But I think that we will definitely be better next season with the money that we get for him. And then we'll just do a more well-rounded swap if we spend time with him. Yeah. And there's a lot of holes in this team. And if we had 85 million pounds,
00:49:56
Speaker
we can fill those holes. And I'm confident Tim Syden can do that. Yeah, we've gone just about as far as we can with this unit, I think. It's time to become a more well-rounded team, as you said. And if he has to be the sacrificial lamb for the next era of West Ham, so be it.
Sacrifices for Team Success
00:50:27
Speaker
Deconise, heavy die for there to be more kudos. With every great sacrifice there is a great reward. And I think one of the underrated rewards, not to be one of these people harping on about Obama is not a striker, kudos is in the left wing. But there is value in that conversation. And there's value in the conversation that Peketa leaving almost opens the door to bring kudos into that ten and to put bone back out wide and get that left wing and striker combination right.
00:50:58
Speaker
and then really make this work. Because with those two playing where they want to be, with the relationship that they built up this year, that could, I mean, obviously they scored a ton of goals this year, but that could become a very potent and consistently potent attack. Jared Bowen for a guy who scored 15 goals, you know, it hasn't come in the most consistent ways, especially in 2024, which isn't all his fault. Played through an injury for a month and a half, no kudos, no Bowen. That was what he was supposed to do.
00:51:27
Speaker
And he's still found production in those bleak moments. But he put him back out on the right wing, how he was looking earlier this season, the strides that he's made.
00:51:40
Speaker
as a dribbler. Really, he's always been a pretty solid dribbler, but he's really not afraid to take on anybody. He beats his man, I would say, much more often than I thought he used to. Obviously, we'll find out how real the finishing is. I think it's real. I don't think it's this real, maybe. Well, his XG is probably evening out at this point. But yeah, you put him back. He's super comfortable. You bring Kudus into a place where we've seen him be super comfortable for Ajax and for Ghana. And if you can just get
00:52:11
Speaker
the attacking signs, right, one more time. Preferably with a striker that we are familiar with, that we play against twice a year would be the hope. It would be nice against the server.
00:52:30
Speaker
turn cherry it's slanky or tell me it would just be an absolute dream and you know let's start and get weird with the left wing if he wants that guy from slip bar let him get him forget the release clause we're gonna have to find value yeah i'm pretty i'm pretty sad i'm pretty like pretty satisfied with him getting a little freaky with the left wing a little goofy
00:52:54
Speaker
Well, because I would personally, if we could sign two, that would be amazing. We need to sign two realistically. We need like three, but... Well, what's the guy's name we got? We got Cornette. No, we got George R.R.T. What's the guy's name at Sisualo? Or did he move this summer? Loriente. Loriente. No, he's still at Sisualo. I'm just curious about his stats.
00:53:20
Speaker
Very two matches, four goals, four assists. Well, he's a nice comp watch. If anybody gets a chance to watch out. He certainly is. And he had better stats last season. He did. He did have better stats last season. Transfer market is valuing him at 12 million. Timmy Stadten, what do you got from him? You know what? Maybe they're just terribly participated in 23% of their goals.
00:53:47
Speaker
Jesus eight Michael contributions, so that's nine. They've scored 33 goals a season God damn. Oh, he's got four goals and five sis. Sorry my sadness. Yes. Sure. Sure. You know, he, he's one to look out for. Well, his three goals, his last two games.
00:54:15
Speaker
Hit and form just in time for, uh, can you decide to take notice? And then we checked out, uh, Chris Fureich from Stuttgart. He's somebody that we've been linked to who has a release clause of 17 and a half million pounds. Um, who really every big club in Germany is interested in him. He's participated in seven goals and seven assists.
00:54:42
Speaker
and 29 appearances for Slickart, who are currently sitting, check out the Bundesliga table, they are currently sitting third in the Bundesliga, seven points ahead of RB Leipzig and Borussia Dortmund, and 21 points ahead of sixth place on track Frankfurt. So I'm very wary of buying from the Bundesliga, I don't like it, I don't think that they are good, I don't think players are good,
00:55:12
Speaker
We just bought a guy from Stuttgart who has had a mixed bag of moments, made a terrible mistake on Sunday, but looks the part is only getting better. I think we'll have a much better season next year.
00:55:28
Speaker
And I mean, if side 10 really knows this league that well, and if this is really a guy that he wants and it was reported by his little mouthpiece play goal, this is really somebody that he wants and it's 17 and a half million pounds. Why not hold the trigger? If, if it's possible to do, I know Bortman one, this whole thing, but we'll see. Yeah. I mean, my Rapanos big picture wise, like I know he's had his bad games here, but
00:55:55
Speaker
Big picture-wise, it looks like he's been one of our better signings in terms of value that we've had in a very long time. And he's going to be a fixture in the team for the future, I think. I think, especially in the big picture, he's one of those players who's good, but not quite good enough to ever leave us, if that makes sense. Which is kind of a back-handed compliment, but I think
00:56:24
Speaker
Like, he's such a freak athlete, you know what I mean? He's only going to get more comfortable in England. I'm very happy with him. I think that this is one of the best summers we've had in a while. Yeah. And I'm very, very, as I was saying, I'm very comfortable going back and dipping into the Stuttgart piggy bank, if you will, based on Mavropanos' debut season. If they're really this real, I mean, why not buy their winger?
00:56:54
Speaker
But I'm sure other targets, same with managers, other targets will become available real closer. But I think bloody goal is definitely a source that we should be able to look out for because Tim's side seems to just talk to us through him and tell us that he wants to go to Liverpool. What a clown. Going nowhere pal. You got anything to say ahead of Thursday?
00:57:24
Speaker
I had a Thursday. Don't get hurt anybody. Go out there and enjoy your last 90 minutes of continental football. I was thinking today that, you know, seeing the Knicks come back in games in the regular season and other sports, but between West Ham, between the Knicks,
00:57:52
Speaker
and even going to the NFL with the Atlanta Falcons. I've just never had my team have one of those, one of those comebacks, you know, in like a big like playoff type European competition type game. Never like, I can't think of one in the FA Cup where we've come from behind. I mean, one goal down is one thing, but I've never seen us really come from behind. Like the Sevilla tie, like I understand that, but I'm talking about like a real like,
00:58:22
Speaker
out of the blue, no shot, no chance that your team comes back and they come back. I've seen it happen to my team in a Super Bowl, making faces at me on the camera, I was going to get there. I've seen it happen. What are you talking about?
00:58:42
Speaker
a 30-point comeback in an in-season tournament game? A must-win in-season tournament game? No, no, no. I know. I know. I know. I mean, nothing to you. I had this thought, and I watched the highlights of that game. It was a 21-point comeback. Felt like 30. But I'm being serious. Yeah. But I'm being serious. Like Roma.
00:59:05
Speaker
Came back from 4-1 down against Barcelona in a champion's league however many years ago and they won that tie. Liverpool were 3-0 down against Barcelona and won 4-0 at Anfield without Salah and without Firmino. They started Shaqiri on the way and beat Barcelona 4-0. And maybe we just need to play Barcelona
00:59:32
Speaker
But I mean, the Patriots obviously came back in 28-3 down against the Falcons. And you see all these things happen. You remember when the Clippers beat the Grizzlies? They were down like 40 in the third quarter. And game six, I forget what year that was, 2015 NBA playoffs. When is it my turn? And I was just thinking that today. Is this my turn? 43 games unbeaten? On the verge of the longest unbeaten run, I forget what the stat was.
00:59:59
Speaker
I think they have like the longest unbeaten run in like Europe ever. If they beat us. They're tied with it. It's Juventus. Yeah, it's Juventus. Yeah. And so if they beat us, or if they draw us. They were 5-0. They went home and... Birds had a hatchback on the bench in that game. Yeah. They are fucking good.
01:00:24
Speaker
They are so scary good. Listen, you're going to get your fairy... People don't understand how good the team that we're playing is. Yeah. You're going to get your fairy tale comeback one day, but I don't think it's going to be against Byron Leverkusen. I don't think so either. I really don't think so either. But I'm just saying, a lot of the ingredients are there for my turn. I don't think it's going to be this game. But I'm just saying, when the hell is it my turn?
01:00:49
Speaker
Cause these things happen all the time. It's not like, obviously it's unlikely like statistically because, but there are so many games that happen and it seems to happen to everybody else at least once. I know that Sevilla wasn't my comeback. It was one goal. Like, like it was an amazing result and like a game that I'll always remember. But like, I'm talking about like, you know, the win probability hates you type odds. Was the Tottenham
01:01:17
Speaker
33 not enough That was my moment I didn't then you know what? You're gonna have to hold that. Yeah, I would I would do it all again. I would do it all again, but but like, you know, like I'm talking. All right. Let me rephrase. I'm talking about in a competition where you can advance Okay now with the caveat Yeah, that's what I'm gonna go with Just why is it my turn dude?
01:01:47
Speaker
And, you know, can we do it? Like, let me just talk to you. Like, they're on the piss all week. They're drinking, right? Mine's elsewhere. Jeremy Frimpong is just being a nice guy, somewhere else, smiling and shit. Great guy. I really do love Jeremy Frimpong. Hard goal. Yeah, it's horrible guard though. Or guard, defend. Yeah. But look, you know,
01:02:15
Speaker
They're off it all week. Maybe their minds aren't totally right. They're a little distracted. Maybe they have a few beers on the plane. No, but maybe they come into the London Stadium. Maybe the passing's not as crisp at the start. Maybe we get an early goal from the set piece. Maybe the crowd gets behind us. Maybe the atmosphere gets to them. The occasion gets to them.
01:02:41
Speaker
The what's at stake gets to them. I will remind you just this fall, we were a game away from breaking some European record for English clubs. And we lost in Greece in an atmosphere that we weren't ready for. All I'm saying is one last big night at the London stadium, get an early goal, get them shaking, get them nervous. Is there a second goal in that game for us? Can we, can we,
01:03:11
Speaker
Can we keep a clean sheet? I don't know, man. Can we score three? We can. You know, we can. Because we came damn close to keeping one at theirs. But we got to score twice. We do got to score twice. And that inevitably opens things up, especially without Bowen, Peketa, Emerson. Ugh. What do you got for me? What do you got for me?
01:03:41
Speaker
And Creswell, you got two red cards. I believe that you owe me one more goal. Oh, shit. No, I don't think they'll be lacking in focus, to be honest. Dude, they smack themselves. I don't think so either.
01:04:01
Speaker
And three days later, they were laser focused. If anything, they should have been not focused on us last week, considering they had a title winning fixture on the weekend. That meant nothing to them. Didn't you have to show up in why the games were the title, dude? Yes, that is true. But with the league, with stakes that high, you don't leave those things up to chance.
01:04:29
Speaker
No, I know. You're thinking about winning the league all week, all month, all year. And who gives a damn about the Europa League when you're about to win the Bundesliga? They do. They're going to do the trouble. Which is crazy. They just might do it. They probably will do it. They probably will. But I will be keeping hope that we're going to score an early goal and that stadium is going to be rocking.
01:04:57
Speaker
If we get a goal early, we can get behind that team and we can at least give them a run for MIT. We can at least end that on being run. Just maybe. That's the bad thing is a successful time, a beyond successful time. It's bigger than that. It's bigger than a Europa League title. This is bigger than a trophy ending by a number of reasons on being run. Damn right.
01:05:22
Speaker
Do you have anything to say before I wrap this up? I believe that you had, uh, you had someone that you wanted to wish well. Yes. Felipe Anderson. I applaud you for making such a brave decision to, to spurn, uh, Juventus, one of the world's most historic and greatest clubs to burn them to turn them down for the love of the game. Um, and for the love of your family.
01:05:50
Speaker
And to go back to your roots, to your hometown, I think that's extremely admirable decision. I wish you nothing but the best in the future. I look forward to when you and Pi chair the pitch against each other. That's crazy. Yeah. Has that ever happened? They, it wasn't lots of them are saying you're a police. Oh.
01:06:13
Speaker
I think that they might've, I think they played last year, but was. Oh yeah. Pi was, was out of the team. Yeah. Yeah. He was, uh, having another fight with another coach. One last argument with a manager and his career. He's being fat. Dude. How funny is it that he's playing in Brazil? Like, what is he doing out there? He loves it, dude. You saw, you remember the quotes that he had about, um, they chooses clubs based off the atmosphere of the stadium. That's why I love less than. That's so far. That's probably why he left.
01:06:43
Speaker
Yeah, see, it wasn't it wasn't because he allegedly cheated on his wife with his child's teacher. He's like, dude, I cannot stand going in stadium. I gotta get out of here. And then always turned it into and then Pellegrini turned it into a fortress and they put a carpet down. He was like, should I come back though? And then it wasn't it even last year, we were getting linked to him. It's crazy.
01:07:11
Speaker
I, that's like a huge regret of mine that we never pulled the trigger on that, that or an out of it. We should sign the pilot and our out of it just to be the striker in the left wing. It's a partner. One last line. One last hurrah bro. Bring back Bill. It should get everyone to rush me. But yeah, Felipe Anderson, good luck and congratulations on a fruitful European career. And yeah.
01:07:42
Speaker
round of applause for Felipe Anderson. Yep, absolutely. I hope one day you look back on your European journey, specifically your stop at West Ham, and you feel a sense of, you know, I had a good impact, I had a positive impact.
Felipe Anderson's Legacy
01:08:03
Speaker
You did. You had a
01:08:07
Speaker
Yep. Let me be the first to tell you, Felipe Anderson, that yes, you had a tremendous impact here at West Ham United. You captured the hearts and minds of many. You inspired a new generation of football fans. Thank you, Felipe. And on that note, thank you everybody for listening. As always, you can find us on Twitter at hammering underscore away. The blog is hammering dash away dot blog.
01:08:33
Speaker
Our Instagram is hammering away underscore and the tick tock is hammering that away. We will talk to you next week Hopefully not talking about the summer as much maybe just like something to hold off to We celebrate in a huge comeback. We will be we will be this is the one
01:10:32
Speaker
So.
01:11:41
Speaker
you