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Hammering Away Ep #36 - Summer is Here
51 Plays1 year ago
On today's episode of the podcast, Jack and Joe discuss the beginning of the Julen Lopetegui Era at West Ham, the future of Lucas Paquetá, Tim Steidten's scouting mission in Brazil, and more!
Music by: LADI OGUN & @ANTlll
Blog: Hammering-Away.blog
Twitter/X: @Hammering_Away
Instagram/Threads: @HammeringAway_
Tiktok: @hammering.away
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Transcript
Return from Hiatus
00:00:03
Speaker
day remind us
00:00:20
Speaker
welcome back hammering away podcast after our second extended... Is this what I'm looking for, Joe? Hiatus. Hiatus.
Hiatus Reflection
00:00:31
Speaker
Our second extended hiatus of 15 months of our existence. Not that bad. Not bad at all. We've probably done 10 months, 11 months of podcasting, and 15 months of the thing existing. Mm-hmm. I think that's solid, but... 35 weeks? Okay. Yeah. 36
End-of-Season Reflections
00:00:52
Speaker
now. Mm-hmm true um But in our hiatus We we must still I think that we were both a little beat down by the end of the season by everything that had gone on So it's a good thing that we got all the sappy stuff out for Moyes after during the last episode that we actually did which would have been after that Crystal Palace game or the full-on game um Both of which were demoralizing. Yeah, I think it was Palace
00:01:22
Speaker
Um, but what that did do is it did give us a chance to not get on here and, you know, just go after a little Pataki
Pategi's Coaching Style
00:01:30
Speaker
for no reason. Cause we were upset about everything that was going on with Moyes and the cut down the middle of the fan base. Um, because that's what we'll do. We're just going to run through the timeline, I guess of this summer so far. I'm happy with little Pataki. I think he's a good coach. I think he's the same level of coaches, Moyes. No matter how it ended with Moyes and, you know, we're conceding on these goals and stuff. I think it's, it's fair to say that these guys operate on similar level levels now, you know? Um, but I do think that there's a lot to be excited about with Will Pategi. And I think most of all, not the fact that he can play pretty football or, you know, he's going to get the fans off their seat or he's not going to sit back because I think what's exciting about him is how he's shown that he's adaptable.
00:02:19
Speaker
in
Pategi's Role & Comparisons
00:02:20
Speaker
different ways. I mean, you know, when he coached at Sevilla, they played one very specific way when they played at Sevilla. But then once he went to Wolves, he was able to kind of shut up shop and show that when his team maybe isn't one of the top teams in the league, that they're able to, he's, he's able to set a team up in a way to be pragmatic and defend correctly, which I think bodes well for us as a club and us in the Premier League and all that stuff. Yeah, I mean, I am glad that we did take this time off, even though I wish we were uploading consistently. Now we can just like, like he's here. Like there's no, it's not worth complaining about anything at this point. Now it's time to just like, actually like just evaluate the man that's coming in. Cause there's just nothing we can do about it now. ah And I think that he he has, first of all, he has huge shoes to fill.
00:03:15
Speaker
Everyone knows that. Yeah. Well, regardless of, you know, whether he's the head coach or the manager, how much Tim Stiden has like control over like the team operations and all that, he is filling the shoes of a person who like completely transformed this club. Whether or not you think he should have left, it's undisputed that we are in a completely different position because of the huge burden that Moyes filled. And now that that burden is needs to be put on a new person. Yeah, I mean, the the groundwork has been laid on and off the pitch by Moyes. But I think it shouldn't go on
00:03:58
Speaker
unspoken, I guess, how qualified Will Pategi is for this role.
Vision: Pategi vs Amorim
00:04:03
Speaker
Yeah, how he he is a very good coach. I mean, like I remember when the Lynx first started, it was just very, um very emotional time, you know. And for me at that time, I was like, well, I don't even want to move on from ways unless it's like some, you know, out of this world, evolution higher. um But I mean, in in hindsight, this might, you know, it's probably a little revisionist, but When you really kind of look at it, and I looked into a lot more about Emmerim when we were being linked, I think I'm a little bit happier having a coach who's proven himself as adaptable and who has seen things rather than a coach who, you know, we don't know if he'll be stuck in his way, obviously. But I think i think that there are a lot of things that Emmerim has to learn.
00:04:47
Speaker
Um, as he progresses in his coaching career, because that, that system that they play at sporting is crazy. They just, they're just straight up defending with three and one of them standing in the midfield, yeah yeah that that wouldn't work at, you know, there's not a good example right now. Cause the big teams in England, they're either city and arsenal and like two of the best teams you've seen are like, you know, United and Chelsea. But like, for example, that wouldn't work at Liverpool. You know what I mean? Like you just have to be more compact of that than that. And you have to be more solid than that. But anyways, that's, it's not a dig at Amber. I'm sure it'd be a great coach, but I think I'm, I'm happy where we landed. And the biggest thing that I tweeted from our account at the time is I really like about Lopeteg. Just how hungry for this job he is. Cause he's, he seemed to a have his eye on the Premier league for a while. And maybe he was at our gaming his arsenal in November.
00:05:44
Speaker
Which I'm sure he wasn't looking to take Moyes' job at the time, but you know, he's been very enthusiastic about taking this job from the beginning. He's had his plans very early on. He had plans for the summer, probably after we lost the palace. You know what I mean? So, and you know, everybody signed off on this. I'm sure if this goes wrong, there will be a lot of people who say, Oh, well he's not really used to item wanted. No. he He is. it may Maybe he wasn't choice number one, but every report that's come out about that is Stuyton's super excited to work with him. And you know, Lopategi said in his interview, what did he say? He said that he wants to make a big noise. One thing I do like about Lopategi, something that you hinted on comparing him and Amorim, is that
00:06:36
Speaker
And everyone who came in and had his sights on, you know, the next job, like this is, this would have been his, like, so like the point where he like established himself as a top manager and like looked to spring himself to like, you know, a Champions League team. Whereas for Lopategi, like this is this is This is the destination. you know like This is where like he's like worked in his career to get to. In England. yeah in like He wants to work in England. like Yeah. this ah This is where he conquers his Premier League ambitions. Yeah.
Managerial Ambition & Caretaking
00:07:10
Speaker
Whereas like Amorim like this would have been a stepping stone and like stepping stone like the concept of like a stepping stone club is fine for players because players come in hungry and you know they can you know dominate and then like do their time you know and then bring finances back to the club so even in departure like they are still contributing whereas like a manager like you kind of have to like be in it, you know, like, you have to be like, there's like the caretaker, there's a tactician role and there's like the caretaker role. And like, that's something I stressed a lot, like, towards the end of Moises tenure, because that's like something that I think is basically irreplaceable. Yeah, that's what he did. So I mean, that that part of his job, I mean, a, the caretaking of the club and also just building a culture and giving not only the team and identity, but the entire club as a whole and identity, like,
00:08:03
Speaker
That was our whole issue before and why is was that, you know, the, the infrastructure was scarce to say the least that when it came to scouting, when it came to anything like that. Um, and also we just, we didn't have an identity on and off the pitch at that time, especially after he moved to London the
Moyes' Legacy & Pategi's Evolution
00:08:20
Speaker
stadium. So what he did in that respect is the whole reason why we're able to be so excited about Lopategi coming in and while we're able to have the confidence, like, okay, like We are in a very stable place as a club. The groundwork has been laid. You know, the stadium feels more like home than it definitely did before Moisica. It's actually an advantage to play there now for us.
00:08:44
Speaker
um And, you know, now there's Stuyton and he's got his whole coaching staff. But I don't think that we would have gotten to a point where we hired a technical director and actually let him operate as a director of football. Because even with Euseos, it was weird. It was just like him and Pellegrini's kind of vibe. but who um But now I really do feel like we're operating like a football club that exists in 2024. Whereas in 2018, we kind of felt like football club that was operating in 2008. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's, that's like,
00:09:22
Speaker
the major question with Opa taking because, you know, his tactics, you know, he's a proven manager, like tactically, like he's succeeded at several clubs of varying sizes. um And now, like the question is, like, how much is he going to build on Moises legacy and the things that he's worked so hard to achieve? And how much is he going to like undo to make his own impact, you know? I mean, that's a good question. I wouldn't really use the word undo. I guess the one thing that you could claim would be undoing would be, you know, switching who starts in that spot next to Alvarez, right? Like if he goes out and gets Alex Garcia, like who we're linked to, who is would be probably a fantastic sign, um especially for the price that he was quoted at, at 16 million euros. But I mean, things like that, they're a change in identity. I wouldn't call them undo.
00:10:16
Speaker
And I think especially like if it's going into, you know, more entertaining football, you could almost call it evolving. um And in a way we we will be evolving because obviously Lopategi probably won't have the deep block from hell that Moyes has. But, you know, there's going to be an emphasis on still having that shape. The one thing I'm a little bit worried about with losing Moyes and moving to Lopategi And it's not a knock on Lopategi. It's just that, you know, one of the ways that we went on the margins was, you know, set pieces. We were a great set piece team in both boxes. So it's like, okay, and that production that we got on both ends from there for most of them was his tenure. How does Lopategi recreate that and his style of play? Because you have to, that's the thing about any top level sport is you kind of have to find
00:11:09
Speaker
A place to, in basketball, you call it like stealing points, right? Like free throws, like into free throw line. And then football set pieces are such a huge part of that. So like, where are you going to steal a goal? Like, like, where are you going to create an advantage for yourself that the other team maybe isn't directly combating you? i And I know set pieces are directly combative, but teams take them varying levels of serious. Yeah, I think I at least hope based on like the guys that are already in house and let's be realistic here. You can't undo an entire like you can't like recreate like reconstruct an entire squad in one summer, especially not as West Ham United. So it's almost what's so exciting about this year too, is that it will kind of be that mesh. Like maybe we can get a little ah village
00:12:01
Speaker
last season at the London stadium after our dice ball thing going. But the the the issue is that we just conceded 71 goals. So it was also it was already falling apart.
00:12:14
Speaker
yeah they they're definitely like There's like certain pieces of the squad that are like are like like calling out to be addressed, like center back, left wing, just just just to come to mind. And because and and potentially replacing Paquetta as well, which I'm sure we'll touch on at some point. I think he's going to play a healthy amount of games for us to see them, is what I'll say. But continuing your point. Yeah, like because there are such like like glaring glaring needs at those like positions, we're going to be forced to stick with guys that Lopategi might not want.
00:12:58
Speaker
And like how is he going to navigate that? and And I think the way to do that is to like like continue to emphasize like set pieces and things like that. Cause like the guys that you do have like do excel in those situations. And the only way to like truly get the most out of the squad, which is what Moise did is, is like, you know, maximize how effective we are at set pieces, which I think if Lopategi is worth his salt, then he'll, he'll continue that. And I think to some extent, um similar to what I alluded to earlier with, you know, Allard Ice and Village and how we were still so solid after Allard Ice up and it kind of allowed Village's football to come out on top of it, like icing on a cake. um I think that the set piece coaching may be the same way. These guys aren't going to forget everything that they learned and, you know, just that you a lot of set pieces is like, do do you want it?
00:13:56
Speaker
um It's probably a lazy way to look at it, but you know, if you're scared to go and put your head in the mix, then chances are the other teams go in the header. um
Paquetta's Gambling Scandal
00:14:08
Speaker
And I, look, I don't really have any concerns about Lopateki being some, use to use the phrase like tippy tappy, like fancy manager, like this is not Pellegrini that we're hiring. I think his wolves then, and In some ways, I think it did a little damage to his reputation in England, just even being at a team that struggled so much, but they ended up finishing above us. And they were bottom when he took over before the World Cup. So look, he knows how to grind points out of a squad that maybe is not the best. And I think we spend money the right way. We we won't be one of the best, but we'll we'll be a damn good team.
00:14:49
Speaker
And I think it's also been emphasized that that he's a head coach. So it's on Stuyton to a very big ascent, too, to you know help build this culture with him now and build on top of the groundwork that's there. We have a good base to build up from. And I really do think that the sky is the limit if we get things right. um I mean, Sevilla, if I remember correctly, when we beat them in Europa League, when Opategi was there, They were second in La Liga in March. Mm-hmm. Like, severe, damn good team, but they're they're not second in La Liga good. They've certainly fallen off since he's left. Yeah. And by the way, what he said about standing in that stadium and thinking, I would like to work here one day is awesome. and Yeah. and post it Because that that stadium that night was like... That stadium that night was on a different level.
00:15:46
Speaker
um But we we we should we should move on to talk about Paquette. The one thing that I'll start off by saying about this, I've already been mad at him about it, um like when the allegations first happened. i'm I'm not mad at him this time. Honestly, I'm just as shocked as he is that they didn't let him off. um I think the bad news is that they they want to make an example out of somebody. He's the perfect person to make an example out of. They have the precedent from the spot fixing guy and whatever league, I think it was a semi-pro league to ban him for 10 years, effectively for life. They have the precedent. Uh, they have his move to city. They can stick at the city who has given them all kinds of problems right now. And now now they're suing the city are embarrassing city should be nowhere near the Premier League, little and professional football. days They should be playing in the ninth tier or they should be forced to liquidate.
00:16:42
Speaker
Um, that's a whole conversation for another day. City are poison to the sport. Um, they can stick at the city. They can make an example out of a big player and you know, then maybe they think that they've accomplished something. I think it's a little ridiculous. There were 60 bets ranging from seven pounds to 400 pounds. on him to be booked in these games, and they brought in a total winning of 100,000 pounds. First of all, that, in my opinion, is not indicative of some betting scandal. That's ridiculous. People bet 400, people are
Gambling Bans & Legal Implications
00:17:30
Speaker
addicted to gambling. Do they know this? Do they know that people are addicted to this? Sure they do. It's addictive. Like, I don't think that somebody put in 400 pounds on Paquetta to get booked.
00:17:40
Speaker
from his island. Maybe they talked to him. Maybe he was pissed off. Maybe he had a fight with his wife the night before. You don't know, right? And look, and that's not to say that he didn't do it. He probably did it. I mean, the the coincidences are a little much. But do I think it's enough to ban a guy for a life on? Absolutely not. I think that's absolutely ridiculous. I think it's insane that they can ban somebody effectively for life from the sport, from playing in any league on a, what was the word that I think Claire and you or what's in football use? It's like a 51% rule. I mean, you, you're the lawyer. You can tell me exactly what the phrase is. I know that we use it the other night, but like,
00:18:26
Speaker
preponderance of the evidence. Yeah. Like if it's just more likely than not that he did it, he can be banned for life. He can just lose. I mean, I know it's not a normal job, but he can just effectively lose his job. Be working at an Applebee's in five years. Like what are we doing? And the thing that stands out to me the most, I think X mentioned this, that he didn't want to play against Bournemouth, right? And Moyes basically told him that he'd take him off after 60, 65 minutes so he didn't get hurt and he can move the city. But he got booked in like the 92nd, 94th minute after looking over at the sideline for 20 minutes being like, when am I coming off? And that that that yellow card is the one that triggered the entire investigation. So just based off that, he would have gotten booked in the first half. And like, cause why would he be asking to come off
00:19:22
Speaker
if he knew he had money to make people e true yeah i mean i don't know i'm not going to like sit here and speculate whether or not he did it because i mean we we just can never know even even though like his like some of these fouls look ridiculous like There's always a he's Brazilian, you know, but yeah but they're also they're not worse. They're not worse fouls than he makes, you know, on any given week. Yeah, he's a clown. He's always been a clown. He's just like a moody Brazilian. And like, like, maybe he was maybe he's not. But like, I don't know, like, it's just so frustrating because
00:20:05
Speaker
The end of this season was such a perfect time to cut off this relationship.
Impact of Investigation on Club
00:20:10
Speaker
The fact that that can't happen, not only can that not happen anymore, now we might not even get to him for at least half a season because it might go into like December, this this investigation. He's going to play for us. the The Tony investigation went on six months and I saw I think it was clear in here or West End football. I think those are the same thing, right? Anyways. They said that since this could effectively ban him for life, or it might not have been them. Anyways, somebody, it was like James P. Sport. One of those stupid things. Like one of those like tier two, tier three. Like they have sources, but they just be talking. They were basically saying that Piquette, this case could go on longer than Tony's.
00:21:04
Speaker
because um it's just the stakes are higher. um And Tony's was six months between when he was charged and then the appeal and then when he was found guilty and actually suspended, right? um So they're saying it could take longer. But then again, the other reports say that his case is going to be fast tracked, all this stuff. um So there's really no way to know. I think he's going to end up playing a pretty healthy amount of games just this season. um Which, you know, like I'm not going to complain about having a player that's this talented around the squad. Maybe a new manager, like maybe it'll light some fire under his ass. Maybe Lopetegui will come up with a plan for him. You know, like the the thing about it is i I struggle to imagine a world where Lopetegui looks at Paquetta and his squad and isn't like, yeah, I'm i'm going to find a way to use this guy. Um, that being said, I wouldn't mind if he was droppable.
00:22:05
Speaker
Like if it if it if it gets if it gets gross and you have bone, kudos, and assuming you buy a left wing who you actually like and it's pretty good, if it's not working, it's getting banned anyways. That's true. And then it's like, I don't know where his mental state is going to be at, but hey, look, this guy is a talented player and they can get something out of him, that'd be cool. I do have a ah small fear, a little fatigue, he's gonna be like, I could put him in the pivot, right? um And if you can do it effectively, more power to him. Because that would be something spectacular, but I i don't know if that's, I don't know if Alvarez can cover that kind of ground. No, but like whether he's playing or not, or suspended or not,
00:23:03
Speaker
I think that's like the most frustrating thing is the uncertainty, you know, like Tim Syden, like essentially a new director of football, considering like the, all the freedom he has now. Yeah. techie, like, you know, building, you know, it was like first team and with best ham and you're trying to like build out his vision and like They have to like deal with this cloud over their heads the entire time. And know and and the most frustrating part was how how much this 85 million had been planned on. like And yeah that's another thing that confused, because these clubs, these play like they have an idea of what's going to happen, right? like They know people, they talk to people. The fact that we really thought that he was going to be fine, that we were just going to get to sell him,
00:24:01
Speaker
and then like kind of get blindsided like that, it's super frustrating. And look, I think it's wrong to do the Lucas Paquetta what they're doing. Like maybe ah maybe I just pity the gambler in him. But it's like, dude, like, just not not to get too deep into it. I just, I don't feel bad if Betway lost a few dollars. And I don't think that Paquetta you know, violated the morality and sanctity of the game by getting a few yellow cards on purpose, if that's even what he did. You know what I mean? like Like, I don't feel like it's wrong morally. So, I mean, that might be a crazy way to say that. But like, what what what is wrong? Like, if you really, because I'm always doing money, but if you break it down, like,
00:25:01
Speaker
He didn't fix the outcome of any game. He didn't cheat the game. He just got booked a few times and he he made a few bucks for family members off of a multi, multi, multi-million dollar corporation. billions, probably. Yeah. A trillion dollar industry, which is which is why he'll get the lifetime ban, right? Because he's messing with the trillion dollar industry's money. But it's like, yeah you know,
00:25:38
Speaker
and I think that this is, it's why I have trouble condemning him, I should say. This is a conversation that I would say is a bit, is like outside of the scope of just Lucas Peketa. It's outside of the sco the scope of just professional athletes. I think that this is a symptom of a larger issue and it's the issue of that like gambling epidemic since it's become yeah increasingly legal.
Gambling Culture in Sports
00:26:06
Speaker
um I think you're gonna see a lot more gambling in professional sports.
00:26:10
Speaker
um We've seen it already in the NFL, in the NBA, there's been bans, extensive bans on legal gambling. um ah Guys going through fan duel and at least legal routes and placing bets on on their own sports. and and Wasn't isn't there someone that got banned for betting on other sports? um I think so. I think that that might have been an NFL player. I think they have a tolerance thing. Yeah, it wasn't Calvin Redley, was it? No, no, Calvin Redley was betting on Falcons games as a Falcons player. He was hurt though. Yeah, that is true. That is true. but um That's besides my point. My point is- No, but that that's- Yeah. Anyways, go. There has been such a
00:27:04
Speaker
a wave of like advertising and and just like gambling, sports gambling has been shoved down the throats of everyone associated with like and watching sports, playing sports. Lucas Paquetta plays with Betway across his chest. um when you When you turn on any professional sports game in between- Sports betting commercials and beer commercials now, which is insane. Yeah, and and I think that these commercials are going to be looked at in in retrospect for our American fans, like like the Marlboro Man, and and how like like cigarette companies used to like used to advertise you know dangerous, lethal products with impunity.
00:27:50
Speaker
Um, and then now like our generation would think that's like silly that like cigarette companies were able to like romanticize smoking tobacco and like, despite knowing all the dangers around it. And I think that the next generation is going to be like, there was LeBron James was doing fan dual commercials. Are we serious? like with athletes
00:28:18
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it's it's crazy. It's insane. It's insane. And it doesn't seem like it's going to slow down anytime soon. And like, and then people condemn these players, right? And like, oh, how could you? But it's like, these are just 20 something guys. They have friends, you know, like, they have friends who all probably gamble. You know, and if if like, if me or you, or anybody listening, if you're in your like 20s, right, and you're friends with a pro athlete, and like you gamble and stuff, and you know, you guys have had a few drinks or whatever, even if you haven't, like you're not gonna mess around with him and like make a joke about gambling, or be like, Oh, I'm betting on you this weekend.
00:29:04
Speaker
you're not going to do that like really do gambling is just like enticing it's it's it's and it's it's super normalized it's like the most normalized vice in society I mean it's drinking but like it yeah I mean it's a whole deeper conversation but I'm i'm totally with you because it's like um obviously we broke the rules whenever you get in trouble but like
00:29:33
Speaker
Like I don't think it's hard to resist. I don't think that professional athletes, just because of the money that they have and the power that they hold are ah exempt from being addicted to gambling. And it's like a silly thing to think. There's like so against the rules and like they're already bringing in a ton of money, but it's like ah any real gambler knows it's not about the money. It's about the stakes and the thrill you get when you're when you have a game, a bet on the line. And the other thing about it is like, you know, some of these guys, like, it's probably legal to gamble on the NBA. You know what I mean? So it's like, there professional athlete, you start gambling on the NBA here and there. Like, this is fun. I mean, whether sports are there, maybe you're an English player, you start betting on like the rugby, right? The darts. Yeah. You bet on a few things and then, you know, it becomes more and more normalized in your life. And then you think,
00:30:30
Speaker
Hey, you know, one day like maybe I'll put a bet on like a La Liga game. And then the bet on that La Liga game becomes a bet on like a league one game. And then that bet on the league one game turns into a bet on your own team to win. And then it turns into a bet on your own team to win and you'd get booked. And then it, you know, it spirals. Absolutely. Absolutely. This is not like, I don't think that like, you know, it's painted as like this like get rich scheme, like quick scheme, like, Oh, what is he doing? Like, what does he need money for? And then all the ads, at least over here, they they really, they they essentially are like, if you give us two bucks, you can gamble free forever. No, you can't. Yeah. Like these, these, these legal gambling institutions um have set themselves up in such a predatory way where it like essentially is like, a they're like,
00:31:24
Speaker
They're games that college gets to, yeah and the close association to drinking. Absolutely. like like When we were kids, we were taught, like oh, like like they're going to be people that are going to offer you drugs for free. And that's just to get you addicted. like And that that that that ended up not being true. But like that's like literally what these billion dollars in friction are doing. They're like feeding you money like, oh, like we'll give you $50. We'll match like everything you put up up to $50. You're like, oh, free money. And I can gamble. And then all of a sudden, you're chasing losses. and
00:32:06
Speaker
before you know you're right on yourself to get a yellow card. You know, it's crazy. Yeah, yeah. And I know, I know. And it's not to say that he didn't make a mistake and that, you know, like I'm, I'm pissed off at him. You know what I mean? drug Drug addicts make mistakes too. No, I know. And you get pissed off with them, but you, you know, put your arm around them and you say, go get me 10 assists and five goals a season. We need it. You know, you like, Addiction of all sorts can't be punished on the individual basis. It needs to be addressed. Oh, yeah, absolutely. um And they're like, it's internal. Yes, but there are plenty of external factors with which which which drive people to addiction of all sorts. If you you know,
00:33:00
Speaker
We just need to abolish capitalism. You know, it is yeah there you go. And, and they have to have no reason to gamble ever again.
Transfer Market Challenges
00:33:09
Speaker
I will say without capitalism, the free Joe Bruno deal could have never fallen through. That's true. We would never have the 12 million pounds to offer them. What? I don't even know what to think about that deal.
00:33:26
Speaker
Listen, like I can't pretend to know anything about the player. It's not even about that. This is the first guy that they set out to go get, right? It's going smooth. And and what what happened to his wife didn't want to move the London unless we gave him like obscene wages. That's just why I fell through. Yeah, that's just why I fell through. like like Like, like, can that stop happening? Can we only sign single players from that one? I don't want any more family men. Jerry Bones, the only family man I want at this club. Yeah. No, because like, like dude out to be them ah yeah, like, I mean, Peter, I didn't meet you. Like, keep it in your pants, dude. Because that's the whole theory with him is that he was sleeping with the ah school teacher. And then his wife said, you're you're we're going back to Marseille or I'm leaving you. And that's laughing Bill just crying in a press conference. Yeah, either if you want a wife, make her from London. and Absolutely. and Just I don't know man figure it like it's it's enough. It's enough.
00:34:44
Speaker
I thought the Bruno thing was because of because of Saudi interests. Was it not? That whole thing's been flying around too. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. That one's a little annoying because like look, I had gotten myself in on that one. He's a Brazil international. Everybody's played against him. He says he's great. like um I didn't think he was going to come here and be a world beater. But like if we got Balbuena, what if we got Balbuena? times two. We got like Fabian Bublana like Packa punched. That'd be cool. Sounds cool to me. Yeah. i mean the town Yeah. And like this guy was twice as good as Fabian Bublana. That's like a damn good center back. He doesn't even have to be twice as good. Bublana was actually a pretty damn good player. Oh yeah. But like, you know, you get my overarching point. And then the other thing, good.
00:35:45
Speaker
They must want like 40 million pounds because we blocked. We've, that name's been going around since like February or March. and Yeah. And we just totally. I just moved on. Yeah. That brings us to the topic of discussion. The guy that we're probably going to get. What's his first name? That's Luis Guillerme. Guillerme. yeah you You tell me how you feel. And then I'll um get excited. I mean, I can't say that I've ever watched him play individually in an actual game. But you know I've watched highlights. I have done research on the player. It seems like he's pretty green.
00:36:42
Speaker
and ah Yeah, we are paying a lot of money for him. I think that the for euros and stuff kind of made it pop more. When you say 25 million pounds, and I think it might even be like, it might be add-ons. The salon clause is high, but I don't really think... After all the craziness has ended, I don't think I have that much of an issue with the fee.
00:37:14
Speaker
It's the highest fee we'll ever pay. We've ever paid. It's the highest fee that I remember. Like I can really put the memory of anyone paying in the Premier League. I guess besides like Citi of like a youngster who like has no intentions of like coming in and starting right away. Chelsea just signed one from the same theme for like 40, 50, 60 million pounds. That's true. And Chelsea, multiple guys from Brazil over the last. They're also freaks. I don't know. Yeah. I mean, I don't know if they count, but I don't know. I think, I think he's going to play more than people give credit for it. Cause I think, I think they also might think that this getting banned, which obviously opens up that backup 10 spot for him, which is where I think.
00:38:10
Speaker
They probably wanted him to act as an option as the 10 or the right wing behind Kudu Simba. And now you keep the ADHD Brazilian around and it kind of clogs everything up. that And that that's the one thing that kept us staying is it's like, fine, like he's a good player. Like Jesus, man, like you're just taking up space. He really is just taking up space that like we're trying to fill with new, like this was the right time to cut the relationship, especially for the fee. So now it's just like, but what I will say about Guillerme, I don't know much about him. I've watched that most like two minutes highlights. Yeah. He looks pretty athletic. He's definitely left footed. Um, but I think the thing that's exciting about him is just, you know, he, he gets grouped in with Endrick and I forget the one that Chelsea just signed, but he gets, off yeah, that's the value gets thrown in with that group.
00:39:07
Speaker
And, you know, they really seem to like them. And I think that the stats that people post, it's like most of those appearances are off the bench. Like he doesn't even really start with Palermas like that. you say their name <unk>s and And I think, look, it's an investment and you you can argue like, well, do we have the money to be making this kind of investment at a position that's not really of need right now? It's a very fair argument, but. If, you know, Stuyten and Mopetegi, if they deem this player as a guy that they cannot miss out on, then fair enough. Get him. Obviously, Stuyten's wanted to make some kind of statement. He wants everybody to know that he can sign top young players, that he can identify them. That's the whole point of all these result trips. And to an extent, he couldn't come home without somebody this time. Oh, yeah.
00:40:00
Speaker
um And I guess only time will tell if this is just somebody to be like, look, I got someone or if this is really a guy that they believe in. Um, but I, I do think that it's an exciting signing. Um, and I think that people should be patient with this kid. He didn't ask to be a 25 million pound player and obviously obviously, obviously he is, and there should be some level of expectation on him, but, uh, I, I am not going to sit there next year and be like, I need him.
00:40:31
Speaker
know consistently in the goals and assists and like starting games. like If he can come here in his first year as an 18-year-old, 19-year-old, and he can give us you know just an injection of energy, a little bit of quality off the bench, and you know when he does start, like put in a shift, like show us what you're about, and the goals and the assists will come.
00:40:55
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it's it's pretty unfortunate that there's no conference league or or any tour of Europe this season to, you know, because those those games would have been all his. And we could have gotten to a scenario of IO, we wouldn't have had to mess around Bruno. That's true. um But yeah, there's like, He's common, so there's like definitely reason to be excited. And and this is why Tim Syden is here. you know like We brought him in so that we can like start getting guys like and like finding gems before they they hit. you know that that's but Once upon a time, Musa Diwali was one of these guys, you know? like From Prong was one of these guys.
00:41:37
Speaker
And Capio was one of these guys that like were like not shining or like either shining in in a smaller league or not shining at the club that they were at. And Steiden identifying, you know, the type of player that he wants and finding that and in a less and a lesst than prominent name and like bringing them to that spotlight. And that's like his job and we need to need to let him do his job at this point, you know. And that's that that's that's the thing with him is that yeah mean You just said it right there. Let him do his job. I mean, I think that the reactions from both sides of the fan base are absolutely ridiculous. And you have one side telling everybody that this guy is cooking, and he he's doing this, and he's doing that, and he's making moves. You don't know who these players are. I'm sorry. You don't. And you can do you know research on them and get a little bit excited. That's fine. And you can you know try and look at what Stuy10 is trying to do.
00:42:38
Speaker
I think over the past few days, the image of what this trans window will look like is a little bit more clear. I think the next two weeks are really going to help us see what's going on. But like, you don't know, man. People are getting excited about Felicia. What was his name? Beychow. Vistow. Vistow. Vistow, who is at Jack Darr and he plays at Internationale in Brazil. You don't know who that is. You've never seen him play. And then multiple people tell me, oh, he's decent. You have no idea who that is. You've seen his name on FM. Yeah. And that's fine. That's okay. And it's okay to be like, I'm backing style 10. And like, maybe he found something that's fine. Something that concerns me is that he's not their first choice, whatever, whatever. But then, then there's the other side, which has been a little disappointing.
00:43:33
Speaker
And it's like, you see these people who like, you could rely on as like, boys and people. And there's one that I really, I talk, I respond to him a lot. And I want him to know I'm actually not talking about him. I mess around with him. And I tell him, like, 20, 29 morgue. I don't know how to say this thing. He knows the game. And like, he like messes around roots against that time. But i like, he wants it to work out. I know if if he doesn't, then Listen to what I'm about to say, because there are other people who I won't name who were like moist and people, whatever. And you thought, okay, like they understand what's going on, but not like they're like just out on styatin signings and every link they're like looking for a hole in it. And it's even like the obscure links. We just got like obscurely linked to some like Bulgarian striker or he's Brazilian, but he's like playing in Bulgaria.
00:44:29
Speaker
And the quotes are killing this guy. They're saying he's like the worst footballer they've ever seen, but it's like, you don't know if we're interested in him. Maybe we do have interest in him. That doesn't work mean that we're going to make a serious move for him. Like, come on, man. Like, and it's ridiculous. And it's like, we got linked to gear, man. It's like, we're talking about stats for this like 18 year old kid that by the way, are very explainable by just being like, Oh, well, he doesn't really start much. And it's it's it's it's insane. It's it's just insane and like borderline celebrating the deal falling through because oh, so I didn't been there like Come
Club Dynamics & Strategies
00:45:06
Speaker
on, man. Like you're just becoming what you were just mad at. Yeah Yeah, they've they've they've found themselves now like There's nothing left to prove Moyes won a trophy we've played almost 40 European games in like 15 different countries and
00:45:25
Speaker
There's just no reason to be bitter against this guy who like truly had nothing to do with David Moore's leaving. I think that he did have a little something to do with it, but I don't think, well, I should rephrase. I think that he may have like kind of given him a little elbow on the back, you know, like, all right, like nudging him. But I think that when Stuyton was hired that kind of Sullivan had this plan of how things were going to go. And that, you know, Stuyton, it wasn't like written in stone, but it was like insinuated to Stuyton, like this this will be yours in a year, right? um And i think I think that we were just a lot better than, you know, Sullivan or Stuyton or anybody really thought we were going to be. But the thing about it is Stuyton didn't actually do anything or have to do anything because more than half the fanbase did it for him.
00:46:20
Speaker
Mm-hmm, and they went toxic when we were in six. So I think just wasn't allowed in the changing room anymore Because he was looking at a different manager in late April. He's just doing his job Yeah, like did did he do it maybe in a way where it's like? This is over, you know what I mean? Yeah, he's like was it was it not handled with? The most grace you've ever seen what is anything been handled with grace here? Oh For all you know, some of them could have told him to do that. Like it's, I mean, and that's, that's, you know, speculating, but it's like, I don't think that there's a reason to have a problem with Staitan Oromois. And I don't think that if you like one, that you can't like the other. And people say, well, what did Staitan do for us? Like, I don't know, man, like like he, he was a part of the kudos negotiations. Like maybe he didn't identify him first, but like,
00:47:15
Speaker
you know he's still leading those negotiations, right? And that's a player that needed to be convinced, you know? Oh, oh, absolutely.
00:47:27
Speaker
I mean, maybe he just did it by giving him what Brighton wouldn't give him, but like, yeah you know, but like, it still got over the line. and Where the hell would we have been last year without Mokudu's? He signed into a seven year extension.
00:47:41
Speaker
Mm hmm. Yeah. Sign Alvarez. He signed Roy Prowse, who was Moyse's guy.
00:47:48
Speaker
Yeah, we we ran out of time. And he identified Mavropanos, who ended up being our best center back last season. Yeah. This is a joke, by the way. But like, you know, he's like, he's a good player for for ah he's a great find. And he's a good player. I think he's a good find. I think he will prove himself to be a great find. I think I think that I hope to be proven correct. I think he could kind of have a similar tra de trajectory as Emerson. Obviously, Emerson is different because he was just like, okay, his whole career and like kind of lazy. But like, I do think that like next year, Mavapanos could really come into his own because there are a lot of flashes of it this year. And then they you know, they're inconsistent moments. And maybe those inconsistencies will always be there. But but I do think
00:48:39
Speaker
that some of what he experienced was just you know that first full season in England. Yeah. It's different for everybody. Yeah, I mean, consistency in terms of... you know personnel who you're playing with, like like being settled in the team, like all that stuff becomes very, very important with center backs. And I think we've seen that quite a bit um but yeah know between yeah your entire backline, including your goalkeeper. And I think that the more he's settled at West Ham and with Ariel behind him and and whoever it is next year that's next to him, because he he will be starting.
00:49:13
Speaker
And we don't know who's gonna be starting next to him. I think we'll just continue to see less mistakes and more of what makes him great Jacob Greaves Perhaps harris um I am a big Alphonse Ariella fan. I will say man. I think I Think that there is some level of truth to the whole organizing your backline thing between Fabianzky and Ariola. Maybe Fabianzky is just really good at it. Maybe Ariola is not so good at it.
Defensive Leadership
00:49:48
Speaker
I'm not blaming Ariola for the amount of goals that we conceded at all. But I do think that at times last year, we looked more cohesive when Fabianzky played than when Ariola played.
00:50:05
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, that's always been true, at least for the last few seasons. And I think that, I think he makes up for it. Listen, like he does. No, he does. I just thought it was worth mentioning. Yeah. Yeah. It is worth mentioning. And I think it's, it's a, it's probably a two way street too, you know? Well, yeah. Cause the Garrett sucks. Yeah, like you're, you're like, communicating with your center backs and your center backs have to be receptive to the things that you say. And like, communicating with a, with an idiot, with an imbecile. You're trying to get through to like, like a guy who is just dense as a rock. And, you know, sometimes that can be difficult, you know? trying to communicate with Vladimir Kufala, he was just looking at you with his eyes wide open. Exactly. His big ass eyes. This guy was just so hopped up on like steroids and like horse tranquilizer and there things to get him through 90 minutes. and he just like His brain is just pounding and he k well know hears like like ah like ah like a ding in his head about 90 minutes. He only hears away.
00:51:14
Speaker
every once in a while when he gets that thing away, man. ah He has two commands in his brain. It's slide tackle and, and punt it down the line. And, and if you try to add in a new one, he might, he might attack you. So Mo, Mo Kudu's had him, had him pass on the ball inside this year. That, that was, that was the development I really enjoyed, dude. I thought Kufal had a good season overall. I mean, he still had the Kufal, moments or games I should say because they're they're not really with him that that's the thing that you like about him is the consistency because they're not really like random moments like like if he's gonna have a bad game he's just gonna have a bad game and it's habits that you know are there it's not like crazy mistakes you know he we all know what he is at this point um do you think that he will be the first choice right back next season
00:52:12
Speaker
Like, when when we look back at this first season under Lopategi, if you're building, like, this was the 11 of the season. This was our best 11. Do you think Vladimir Kufa will be in it? Do you think it will end up being Ben Johnson? Do you think he'll re-sign and steal that place? Or do you think it will be a player that we signed in, like, August? um I think that... I think my prediction is that he's gonna go into the season as the first choice right back. Um, no, yeah, he's, I think, I think right back e with Kufal is one of those positions where Lopateki would like to make a change.
00:52:53
Speaker
But we just won't get to it this summer. And I think that's fine because Kufal is a solid player. um you don't Your best player doesn't need to be right back. you know like he's He's going to be solid. He's not going to kill us. ah He's going to you do certain jobs extremely well, jobs that you need during a transition, defending the box very well. Um, being, you know, an excellent defender on, on, you know, in isolation situations. Excellent. A strong word. Yeah. And sometimes, sometimes he has a really good games being physical, being a leader. Like these are, these are qualities you take with faults in a transition season, I think. Uh, and for that reason, I think he at least starts there.
00:53:39
Speaker
Does he end the season there? I don't know. It depends on a lot of things. Depends on if Ben Johnson stays. ah We've seen that you know that battle been taking place over a few years. And but and now that Moyes is in here, which was, you know he certainly had his thumb on the scales for Kufall at times. ah you know Like that was saying to his guy. ah you know who knows how this competition goes at this at this point. um And we might sign a right back. um We might sign a right back for depth. We we surely will if Ben Johnson leaves. And that guy might also win the spot against Kupfall. It's just so many things could happen from here on out that- That's what I'm thinking. I'm thinking Ben Johnson is gonna go, we're gonna sign a right back. And I think Kupfall is gonna share that spot.
00:54:34
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Like I think like if I had to be like how many I think could fall maybe like 25 Premier League appearances the Southern guy like 13 Premier League starts were like who falls like first three starts right before he's even in the building, you know what I mean? Like that kind of thing I can see happening because I do agree with everything that you said and I think that you know, I Kufall isn't, you know, the craziest athlete, but he'll run his head off. And, you know, he likes to bomb forward to get wide. And, you know, we've seen that he can put together really extended periods where he can put the ball in the box.
00:55:14
Speaker
um And you know, I think Will Pataki is going to like a fullback who can get forward like that. If he does choose to use kudos on the right, kudos is, you know, help Kufo play with the ball a little bit more comfortably.
Bowen's Future Under New Management
00:55:27
Speaker
um Obviously, the relationship with Bellin is there, even if Bellin just leaves his mouth to dry. But then again, you know, Obviously, those things are tendencies, but you know tactically, I was saying this to you, I think I'm really excited to watch Bellarmine under a new manager. I think he is by far the most intriguing player under a new manager because he's such a moist guy any and you love that about him. But another thing is like when you see him play for England, you do see that he's
00:56:02
Speaker
capable of maybe coming deep and doing other things and keeping those traits about him, like being in the box and you know but like really looking to score goals. um So I do think that it's going to be really interesting to see how he operates um in a new system, under a new coach, where you know different things are asked of him. During Moise's time, he he was really just, hey, you go out there, you go Forget even soft solid gets on the ball more and bonus forget that just just play as high up the pitch as you can and you score goals That's what that's what you do finished, you know, which is what you know, his role should be, you know still be heavily Like relied upon the score goals. that That's what he's done his whole career, but I do think the other things we asked of him and I think personally that he will
00:56:56
Speaker
pass with flying colors. And I think that when you watch him play for England, you can see that, man, he was so good in that second half against Bosnia the other night. He's on that plane. He's on that plane. And it shouldn't have been that Bosnia game to settle that. No, no, no, no. I know you agree. But one thing I will say about Bowen is that there's no telling how good of a fit he's going to be with no particularly. I disagree. but But this is great. I will say that if it's not the best fit to start, because I can't i can't sit here and pretend I know everything about what Lopategi's plan is for West Ham. But what I will say is that Bowen is an extremely cultural person. He has the temperament to get better. he has the he has he He's a supremely talented footballer.
00:57:56
Speaker
and And if he's not put in this position where he's the most comfortable, I guarantee you that it won't take him much time to to flourish in whatever role is impressed upon him by the manager. ah That's just the type of person he is. That's the person he's always been at West Ham. That's the example he set for other players that have come in. Like this is, this is our, like, even if he's not wearing the band, like this is our, this is our captain, you know, this is our guy. yes i yeah And i mean I totally agree with what you're saying about him, you know, being a worker. he's He's always going to get better. He's always going to learn. Um, but I just, for me, I think that he, he can play for basically anybody, any coach in world football.
00:58:46
Speaker
as long as it's not like JDP pep nonsense at like City or Arsenal. And that's stupid. Who wants to play that way? But he could play for Klopp. You know, Ange as far as I'm concerned. If Kuleszewski can play for Ange, Bowen can. I'll tell you that much. If Timo Werner can play for Ange, Bowen can. No, yeah, no, no doubt on that. but We'll see, man. We'll see. I think that there's a stigma around who he is as a footballer because of how tied to Moise he is. Moise. Moise. Of how tied to Moise he is. And I think that those shackles of that tinted view will come off this season. And for the record, I don't think he's going to get anywhere near 16 Premier League goals. But i just I think that
00:59:42
Speaker
And you know, he's going to go to this tournament and maybe, you know, I've been wondering, maybe maybe he'll come back. Maybe it'll take him a few weeks to figure it out because he's going to come back late. You know, maybe England will get bounced in the group and we can talk trash on here and bone can get back in training. Um, but I, I, I just really think that he will continue to impress people. He will keep that place in that England squad. Like this is just a legitimately a very, very good. when you're in the Premier League, and just because he's a little hard nosed, doesn't make that, doesn't really change that. And there are passes that he makes for England, like in in that little slot, whether it's into the 10 or just like first time into the striker, where we don't see that in religious system. The only time we've ever really seen it is actually if you go look at that goal um that he scored against Sheffield United, he has a little touch in there that's similar to that.
01:00:39
Speaker
but he makes passes like that for England all the time and it's like maybe that's what they want him to do but like and it's not some crazy pass I just think that it's it's indicative of that there's more in there than him just being like some guy on the wing who can take on his man sometimes and score his goals it's It's certainly exciting. It's it's absolutely exciting the that we're going to see a new a new wrinkle, a new facet of Bowen's game. And even if it's not there yet, which i I'm not saying at all, like yeah it's going to be there because that's the guy he is. And its it's an exciting time to be a Jared Bowen fan specifically. One question for you before we end.
01:01:31
Speaker
Will Julian Lupitegi change the captain of West Ham United and who will it be, if you will? The current captain of West Ham United will be playing in Saudi Arabia. So he will be forced to play to change the captain. Yes.
Captaincy Speculation & Lighthearted Farewell
01:01:50
Speaker
Okay. who Who is he going to give it to? um
01:01:55
Speaker
I don't know. I don't know. There's no obvious person. um If it was anyone, it would be Bowen. But I think that there must be some reason why he hasn't been captain yet. Like like on paper. Because Moiz was grooming him, dude. I also think Moores just likes it being a defender. I honestly think that's what it is. That's also true. Or a midfielder, defender. Like a defensive minded player. Yeah. It's true. Yeah. I mean, that's a good point.
01:02:34
Speaker
um I would like if if it was Bowen, I would be so happy for him. I think it should be just because ah you get that stability. I think that it will be well, for the record. and for you If you want my take on it, I think it's one of those things that turns into a trivia question. And and in like 10 years, everybody's like, oh, like I really thought that Moise gave Bo in the captaincy. Like, that's crazy that it was Old Kentucky. You know what I mean? And it's like one of those things where it's like, oh, yeah, that was that that year when it changed. and yeah that That's how I think. I think it's ah it's a trivia question in the making.
01:03:15
Speaker
Well, I think that my take on the situation is I've seen people online making it out to be like, you know, Bowen is like a vocal guy. Um, and I don't think you need to be a vocal guy to be a good captain. I agree. I also think. He grew into that this year. I think even Moi said that he grew into that. I mean, Jared Bowen was trying to tell everybody that he was growing into that throughout the season. Why don't you get behind the mic after Palace put five past us, friend? It's always James Earl's past they put five past us. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it may be, it will be. I don't know how Little Bitiggy's gonna do it. I don't know what Little Bitiggy's gonna do. I think he's gonna start him at first, personally.
01:04:02
Speaker
You think so? Yeah, I think he's going to like sign him in field there. And it's going to be like him and Ward Prowse kind of battling for that spot. And I think Sue Chuck's going to kind of turn into like a makeshift six or like he's going to be like an Alvarez alternative for a season. And then he's going to go. That's always being a player now. Do not do my boy like that. Anyways. We will talk about Thomas Uchek next week. Thank you everybody for listening. with y'a We'll be on the show next week. thomas Yeah, Thomas Uchek's gonna be on the show next week. Yeah, that's what we've been doing since we've been gone. We've been trying to get Uchek on the pod. He's never been on before. He's definitely been on before. This is a bit for any new listener where we pretend that somebody new is coming on the podcast every week. But next next week, we'll be Thomas Uchek. He's gotten plenty to say. um We will be the first West Ham related
01:04:57
Speaker
outlet, I guess you can call it, to not ask him about Potato Scout in three years. So look forward to not having to hear about that. Yeah, enjoy not thinking. Yeah. And we'll talk to you guys next week. As always, the Twitter is hammering underscore away. The blog is hammering dash away dot blog. The TikTok is hammering dot away and Instagram is hammering away underscore. We'll talk from next week. for Peace!
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Speaker
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