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092 - We Need New Expectations for Goaltending
158 Plays2 months ago
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Connor and Nathan sit down this week and discuss the changes to the game of hockey and how that affects the expectations around goaltending. It is time for us to have a new bar and see goaltending in a different standard.
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Transcript
Introduction and Episode Plans
00:00:06
Speaker
Welcome to the DIY Goalie Podcast, where hosts and goalie coaches Nathan Park and Connor Munday share their insights on how to become a better goalie.
00:00:18
Speaker
Hey goalies, welcome back to another edition of the DIY Goalie podcast presented by true North Goal Tending. As always, and there are two of us today, shocker. You got your host Nathan Park, myself, and Connor Monday, as well as Emerson Monday joining us again. She looks very ah interested in what we're talking about.
00:00:44
Speaker
um But so yeah over the last like little bit, it seems like we haven't really hopped on very much together. Not even that, but I feel like we've maybe seen each other like twice this year in person. It's been quite the season this year.
00:01:00
Speaker
but um Yeah, we're back at it, at least for this week. And then probably the next four or five weeks, we'll be a rotating solo episodes again. That's the way it's been going lately. But um no, we are we are trying to and get back into the swing of things with the podcast and try and get some guests on. and try and find some time to front load some episodes so we can, you know, get a little bit more content to you guys and, you know, we can chirp each other again. Cause I know you guys all love that.
Personal Updates and Guest Plans
00:01:31
Speaker
That's probably the only reason you listen to us talk, but so how's it going over there, Connor?
00:01:37
Speaker
Oh man. It's been, there's been a lot happening, I guess since, yeah, no, you're absolutely right. Cause like we've been, we've been missing each other,
00:01:48
Speaker
on the pod and in person and yeah, just, yeah, no, you're absolutely right. We haven't seen each other in a while. We do have our work Christmas party coming up.
00:01:59
Speaker
I'll be at three weeks late, but three, four weeks late, but. um yeah otherwise like i don't know on our on our side of things it's actually not been too bad i uh got to take in the um the the pwhl takeover tour here in edmonton it was uh minnesota and vancouver was hoping to maybe uh kind of catch up with marlan unfortunately that didn't happen and it was actually looking at uh um meeting up with joey ali the uh goaltending coach for the vancouver golden eyes that didn't happen either but we are looking at uh
00:02:33
Speaker
Having him on the pod here, we've been chatting back and forth a little bit. um On top of that, like, yeah, nothing's really... out of the ordinary i
State of Goaltending Today
00:02:44
Speaker
guess it was got back on the ice with uh my u18 doubles uh last week um and then yeah we're still we're still uh we're still doing our thing with uh with the facility and all the true north sessions and such and i'm actually going to the uh to the shorzy uh um versus oilers alumni game on the on the 23rd so i'm actually quite excited for that one as well so
00:03:07
Speaker
Other than that, though, everything on everything on my side has actually been pretty good. Nice. Have they released who's playing Annette for that one? I think Scrivens was in there. Was it here? Am I wrong? Yeah, it's Scrivens and Delorier were the names. So I don't know if they're playing gold. They didn't really specify, I guess.
00:03:28
Speaker
They just kind of announced the... Like basically like the roster of like people who are like, so it was like Laroque and Hemsky and Rafi Torres, which I think is such a random poll, but I love it. Um,
00:03:39
Speaker
And then, yeah, Scrivens and Delorier were named in that as well, but they weren't named if they were playing goal, I guess, if that makes sense. So um we'll kind of see. I know I grew up watching Jeff Delorier play. It was actually one of the reasons I'd gotten to goaltending along with Dwayne Rolison. Scrivens was never really one of those guys that I could really get behind. But as I look back at him now, I'm like, ah yeah, he actually wasn't that bad for the for the for the team. I mean, he kind of Got dealt a crappy hand with ah with how the Oilers were playing at that time. But I don't think you know he was i't i don't think it was as bad as I was making about to be a very long time ago.
00:04:19
Speaker
Doesn't he still have the NHL record for most saves and shutout? Yep. Yes, he does. wow So he's he's still etched in
Evolution of Hockey and Goaltending
00:04:27
Speaker
lore. ah Also, speaking of records, um you know, there's the announcement last week that Glenn Hall had passed. And I think that is probably one of the most untouchable records in sports that what is 502 straight starts. And it's like 550 something if you include playoffs like.
00:04:47
Speaker
I don't think that thing's ever coming close to being touched, ever. So we can probably etch that one up in the rafters. But um that kind of ties a little bit into what we're going to talk about today. Look at that segue. is googlele where um We're kind of talking about the current state of goaltending and kind of how I think we need to start reframing our expectations around the position and kind of around, you know, the results, I guess, for lack of a better term. um
00:05:24
Speaker
Just given the way that the game is played these days and the absolute um focus, I guess, on development, especially like individual skills. um The players today are ridiculously good. I can't even imagine what the generational talent 10 years from now is going to look like in terms of their skill set. Like you see a lot of the tech talks and stuff like that, um, of these kids doing stuff like, you know, they see on Pavel Barber and see like guys like Trevor's egress doing or stuff like that. Um, the skill level of this up and coming generation is absolutely ridiculous. Now,
00:06:11
Speaker
You can argue till the cows come home about whether or not that's a good or a bad thing compared to you know the skill of like hockey IQ and you know being able to read the play and systems and all of that stuff. But you can't argue the fact that from an individual skill level, the hands, the shots, the skating ability, all of that sort of stuff is by far and away the best it's ever been and is probably only gonna continue to get better.
00:06:40
Speaker
And because of that, we have seen a dramatic shift and results when it comes to goaltending. I mean, we just had 10 to two game yesterday. The Bruins beat the Rangers 10 to two rest in peace, Rangers and Shusterkins knee or whatever is going on over there.
00:07:01
Speaker
um Feel bad for the guy. I mean, quicks a stud, but you know, he's, he's kind of at the end at the twilight, but yeah, I think we need to understand that the benchmark of a 9-10 average save percentage is gone, at least for the near future. It probably, like everything else, will ebb and flow and eventually work its way back up at some point.
00:07:28
Speaker
But we are currently in the downtrend, kind of like, you know, what we saw 80s ish, right, where it was seven, six games and, you know, you're winning the Vezna with like an 88 save percentage or whatever the case is. Right.
Goaltending Styles and Equipment Changes
00:07:45
Speaker
I know obviously save percentage doesn't tell the whole story, but it it does offer a trend and it does kind of show um show what is going on from the eye test as well.
00:07:58
Speaker
um So I don't know, like I did pull up kind of the average save percentages by year over the last, well, basically since the salary cap started. So 05, 06.
00:08:10
Speaker
um But before we dive into that, i don't know if you have anything you want to kind of add or or jump onto with that or... i I don't know. I know Connor said he's feeling a little spicy today, so we'll see if he gets into that yet or if he's going to wait.
00:08:24
Speaker
So all I'm hearing is that Stuart Skinner is not as bad as everybody's making him out to be. Everybody take a shot. Everybody take a shot. Take a drink.
00:08:34
Speaker
It's been two months. Move on. It's like the ax that can't let go. Yeah, I mean, no, you're you're absolutely right. i mean, we're seeing that dynamic shift in terms of that.
00:08:54
Speaker
And I guess it's easy for me to sit here and say like, oh, like an 888 save percentage isn't terrible.
00:09:09
Speaker
having not played mean i coached junior hockey and just kind of the the the elite hockey
00:09:18
Speaker
but i i know that that's what the expectation is amongst kind of the higher ups when it when it when it comes to that i guess just
00:09:34
Speaker
Goaltending is changing again, or just kind of the like the the the entirety of hockey is changing again. And with that, subsequently, is goaltending.
00:09:46
Speaker
And so And it's not necessarily to say that that goalies are getting are getting worse, but it's just, like like you had said, like the players are getting better. like They're doing a lot more with the stick and the hands, and you know this the skating continues to be um increasing every year and such. And so...
00:10:14
Speaker
I guess just we're we're in this situation or we're in this time right now where, yeah, just kind of goalies are just kind of taking to just kind of taking the heat of that, where we will have right now, mean, like what, ah Jacob Markstrom got lit up six times against the, ah oh, shoot, who was it? Was it?
00:10:35
Speaker
That was the Islanders because Sorokin said that. Was it the Islanders? Yeah, he set a franchise record for most safe than a shutout player. Yeah, so there you go, right? Like, Jacob Marstrom gets left in the game for all all six games. i think he gave are all six games all six goals and I think he gave up, like, what?
00:10:52
Speaker
It was, like, what, 26 shots? 21 shots? 24, 26, yeah. something Something like that, right? and so And it's not to say that Marstrom isn't a bad goalie. I mean, I know I came on here at one point and said that he was an overrated goalie, but...
00:11:08
Speaker
It's still the... We're not... nobody's Nobody's getting worse, per se. It's just everybody's getting better. And so there's there's always going to be that dynamic shift where once like once players start to get better, goalies will eventually catch up. And then the goalies will eventually surpass, and then the players will catch up. So that that relationship's always been like that for years. And Nathan, you and I were talking about maybe like a year ago with...
00:11:37
Speaker
um, you know, just kind of what the next big evolution in goaltending would be, you know, like, especially going from, you know, the, the old standup kind of years. And then eventually it was more of the, the butterfly hybrid, you know, and which is what goalies generally play with nowadays. Right. So there will be that change. There will be that shift again, which will turn into the goalies, will which will turn into goaltending's favor. But right now we're just, we're just in a position where, where, um,
00:12:07
Speaker
players are a lot more elite than goaltending. Yeah.
Technical and Athletic Balance in Goaltending
00:12:11
Speaker
So I'm just going to rattle through these numbers quick, starting from the 05-06 season all the way to this current season. And this is i'm just taking from statmuse.com. This is average NHL save percentage per year.
00:12:28
Speaker
So 05-06, you have 903 average, then 905, 909, 908, 911, 913 for 2010-2011. Okay, so sorry, so there for a second. So that's what, 2005 to 2010, 2011? Yeah, so 05-06 10-11, we've trending from 903 to a 911 over those five years.
00:12:40
Speaker
it's okay it's tosson and so so sorry so stop there for a second yeah so that's what two thousand and five to twenty ten twenty eleven yeah so oh five ah six to ten eleven we started trending up from a nine ah three to a nine eleven over those five years So over those five years,
00:13:00
Speaker
okay sorry what whatever. ah So over those five years, what do you think? Because I have an answer. I'm just i'm curious. What do you think was the biggest change in there? Because that is when hockey kind of really started kind of transitioning a little bit. So what do you so i have i have my answer. Just what do you think was the biggest change in terms of the dynamic of relationship between goaltending and player?
00:13:28
Speaker
Well, so my, i don't know, there's a few reasons and was planning to kind of get into those just as a whole. But in general, like I think that era, um we, I think it was more so the style of play. Like the style of play was very more trap oriented, like very kind of more, um you know, defensive minded first, you know, keep guys to their perimeter, clog the house, that sort of stuff. And even the playing style, like,
00:14:00
Speaker
I don't know, from my memory kind of in that area era, a lot of teams weren't necessarily taking the chance on the run and gun. And I think that was also just because like, I don't want to say there's a lack of high end talent, but like the high end superstar type talent of, you know, the early 2010s, late compared to now, um,
00:14:24
Speaker
compared to now um I don't think that there was quite the skill set that there is now. Like, I mean, one of those seasons somewhere in there, Jamie Benn won the, uh,
00:14:36
Speaker
the Art Ross with what, 90, no, 80 some points, 80 something points. And he he had the most points in the league that year. um So in my opinion, I think more so it was the style of play, but then also to kind of a lack of, like I had said before, like that individual skillset. Like I, I know players were working on stuff back then, but like nowadays you have like,
00:15:04
Speaker
a coach for every micro skill, right? Like you have a power skating coach, and that's probably even broken down by now. You probably have like a stride coach and like a stopping coach, you know, like that seems to be the way we're going these days. But, you know, there's a shooting coach, there's a skating coach, whatever. And back then,
00:15:24
Speaker
Goalies did have that specialized training, even though maybe at the lower levels it wasn't very prominent. But at the higher levels, there definitely was that specific training for goalies that players they don't think necessarily got.
00:15:37
Speaker
So I think it's kind of a combination of those two things. It would probably be my biggest argument for why that was. Okay, so I look at it purely based on skill set, individual skill set, I should say.
00:15:54
Speaker
Like around that time, we were starting to see the transition in terms of equipment from wood sticks to more carbon fiber composite sticks.
00:16:09
Speaker
And then on the goaltending side of things, pads were becoming lighter than what they were back in 2002.
00:16:18
Speaker
And then we were starting to see as well ah a little bit, not a lot, but a little bit more technicality. um Jonathan Quick is actually a perfect example because he was still the the fish out of water goaltender, but he had a little bit of technicality to him, not very much. Yeah.
00:16:42
Speaker
Oh, there was another one. Martin Brodeur, another one. Very, very kind of loose, but there was still a little bit of, again, not total technicality, but just some there. Henrik Lundqvist being another one, although he was a little bit more on the technical side, from if memory serves me correctly. And then Marc-Andre Fleury was big pioneer in that one too, right?
00:17:06
Speaker
Because, again, he very mean he played that way right up until the end where You know, he was still very a little all over the place, a little bit unorthodox, but there was still technicality in his game, a little bit more, not precision, but a little bit just.
00:17:24
Speaker
Yeah, just a little bit more technicality mixed in with a little bit of athleticism. Right. So in that those five years and with those four or five goaltenders, I'm going to lay it out specifically.
00:17:39
Speaker
That was around the point in time, in my mind, where I say goaltending was better dominated because we actually had a, we had a so ah not a plethora, but we had a really good roster of goalies who played with a little bit of athleticism where the players couldn't exactly, were still trying to figure out shot release.
00:18:02
Speaker
particularly with the transition and stick and stick quality and so goaltending in and around that point in time was just was just bad not well it was just it was it was good for the era that it was in i should say and um as we progress in the next five years from 2010 to 2015 okay i would say it's maybe about the same again i don't know what the numbers are with that But and then going from 2015 to well I'll go the whole 10 years 2025, it slowly starts to go back up because goalies are becoming more technical. And so I'm not necessarily saying that but goalies are becoming more robotic because I hate that kind of usage.
00:18:46
Speaker
But I think just... Goaltending has strayed away from a little bit of a little bit of athleticism and in favor of the technicality. But now because the shot release is getting better and the quality and skating and so and and the sticks and equipment on the player's side has gotten has gotten better. Not to say that the equipment for goaltending hasn't.
00:19:10
Speaker
I think that's why we're seeing kind of that drop in quality. But I'll let you kind of read out the rest of numbers here and then we'll see if I'm right. Yeah. And a lot of that stuff you kind of said ties pretty much into what I was kind of saying about the the part of like the specialized training, right? Like I feel like the goalies were ahead of things a little bit more. or right. The goalie community, I guess, was ahead of things a little bit more. Like that was why,
00:19:36
Speaker
the evolution of the butterfly came in the 90s, maybe even the late 80s. But the reason for that was because the um the percentages were that most of the pucks were going in low along the ice. So the butterfly was there to kind of combat that a little bit. And I think to like even in 2000s going into the 2010s, goalies were getting specific training to play, you know, the game in front of them, right? They were trying to figure out ways to kind of
00:20:11
Speaker
you know, be able to be successful and in what was going on, whereas the players were still kind of in that older school mentality of dump and chase, you know, clog up in front of the net, try and get bodies to the net with lots of shots, all of that sort of stuff where we've seen a shift now, like teams pass up shots if it's a low danger shot, like they're told to do that. They work on that. They, you know, it's all about the analytics and what the highest,
00:20:41
Speaker
percentage of getting a scoring chance is. That's what teams are looking for. They're not looking to throw 30 pucks on net, but we'll get into that a little bit more. But I think that that's kind of a big one is the goalies um were a little bit more ahead, whereas now that's kind of caught up a little bit. And I think that's a big one too, just kind of like what you were saying there.
00:21:04
Speaker
um I don't necessarily want to go with You know, the goalies of today aren't as good as that batch of goalies. Like, yes, there are some elite goalies back then, but we have our handful of elite goalies like nowadays as well.
00:21:20
Speaker
And i would argue that some of the mid to lower end goalies nowadays would probably... be pretty successful back then as well, right? And might even be even better than they are nowadays just because of the style of play from back then.
00:21:38
Speaker
um So I don't think it's necessarily fair to say that, you know, one era is better than the other or anything like that. They're just dealt a different hand.
00:21:48
Speaker
um But we can kind of get into that too a little bit. But I'll kind of rattle off um the rest of these numbers here. so 2010, 2011, 9-13. Then we do 9-14, 9-12, 9-14, 9-15, 9-15, in 2015-16. And then kind start the decline.
00:22:01
Speaker
then we 9-13, 9-12, 9-10, 9-10, 9-08 in 2020-2021.
00:22:10
Speaker
and then we kind of start the decline so then we go nine thirteen nine twelve nine ten nine ten nine eight in twenty twenty twenty twenty one then 907, 904, 903, 900, and currently this year we're at 897.
00:22:27
Speaker
So basically we peaked in 2015, 2016. So it was pretty steady climb from 05, 06 till about that 2010, 2011, and then a little bit of change and a couple percentage points for those next five years. And then just basically a steady decline since.
00:22:49
Speaker
So, um yeah, kind of basically what you were saying and what your predictions
Impact of Goalie Rotations on Team Strategy
00:22:56
Speaker
were. And I think it's no secret. I think we all know that that's kind of the state of things like It was very common to see 1-0 and two one games back in the mid-2010s. And nowadays we're seeing 7-2, 6-5, 10-2, 8-1. Especially if you're playing the Avalanche, you're basically guaranteed to give up you know six plus goals.
00:23:22
Speaker
um So you know i think I think that's kind of a testament to what you were saying earlier there too. So i have ah I have a few thoughts kind of running in my head. I guess the first one is this. Do you do you think we see, and I'm probably right, do you think we see more goalie rotations nowadays, like so like so many goaltending changes compared to, i don't know, let's say 2009? Do you mean like tandems?
00:23:58
Speaker
No. So what I mean is that, like okay, so this, so I can easily say, and again, I just, with the Oilers here, just in the last, um I don't know few years, let's lets let's say the start of 2020s, the Oilers had started off with, who was it? Cam Talbot, Anthony Stolarz, Mike Smith, Mikko Koskinen,
00:24:28
Speaker
Stuart Skinner, Jack Campbell, Calvin Pickard, right? So in that time span, that's what, seven, eight goalies from 2020 to now. do you So just kind of basing off of that, do you think that we don't see more, so I guess, yeah, more steady goalie kind of pairings compared to...
00:24:56
Speaker
however long ago? Yeah, yeah I don't know. It's it's tough to say. um Like, you know, the NHL is also talking about, you know, two extra teams and all of that. So that's going to add, you know, four more spots that are open. Like, I mean,
00:25:18
Speaker
the i think like I think people may have rose-colored glasses when it comes to the eras we looked at with those high save percentages, um where the game was different back then, and the way goaltending was played back then is different. like Nowadays, with the game being so fast, with goalies being able to skate so well and transition so well, there's definitely a higher...
00:25:47
Speaker
um you know, probability of getting injured. I know Oilers fans are all on the whole Jari trade because he couldn't even get through three games. um But some I think that's a testament to, you know, why we're seeing a lot more of the tandem rotations. um I think that's a testament as to why, you know, there is kind of such a,
00:26:16
Speaker
transition of goalies, I guess, or such a turnover. That's word I'm looking for, such a turnover of goalies. I mean, you look at a guy like Thatcher Demko, guy's an elite level goalie, but he cannot stay healthy, right? And so because of that, Vancouver's gone through a handful of goalies kind of as they've gone.
00:26:33
Speaker
um You know, and I think that's That has something to do with, you know, the amount of fluidity between goaltending is the game is so fast and there's only so much your body can do. Even at the highest end, when you're the top athletes with the best resources in the world, there is only so much a body can do.
00:26:55
Speaker
And especially once you kind of get hurt once, um depending on the injury, goes, you know might just be a ticking time bomb before it happens again right um so that's something that i think plays into it um i also do think too that I like the approach to the game of hockey is changing.
00:27:20
Speaker
I think kind of the new thought process is a little bit different than the old school mentality. Like the old school mentality was like, we're looking for a guy we can ride for 60, 65 games. You know, we're looking for a guy that can give us,
00:27:35
Speaker
a top performance night in and night out. And nowadays it's all about, you know, kind of like we see in the the NBA, that whole rest management or load management, right? We're getting another two games in the regular season, right?
00:27:50
Speaker
With the, you know, Betman era coming to an end with two more teams coming in, are we going to see a play in round added, right? Where there's now more games um for teams. So I do think that...
00:28:06
Speaker
we're going to see more of that. And I don't know if maybe down the road, if we ah even see teams kind of run through a three goalie tandem, like kind of more of the college, um you know, format, especially if the cap's going to be exploding in the next few years.
00:28:23
Speaker
I don't know. We'll see. um But it will be interesting to kind of see the adaptations that are made, the adjustments that are made, because, know, You know, just with how the game is, like, I think people need to realize that the days of the twenty ten s the 2000s, all of that is it's gone. We're in a completely different game now. and And that's why we're seeing stuff like this happen. Why we're almost 50-50 between two goalies in a tandem and why there is a bit more of a goalie carousel from team to team.
00:29:00
Speaker
I guess just kind of where I'm leading with that is because of the goalie carousel. Is that why, you know, we think we're seeing that decline in save percentage. But good i don't I don't necessarily have the data or the the proof to back that up. I'm just...
00:29:18
Speaker
umm um I'm just wondering because, again, like, understanding that, like, the the early 2000s era and the 2010s era of hockey's over and it's gone, it's done with, you don't usually see, ah least I haven't found anyways, and I could be totally wrong, that teams who have a goalie tandem, I mean, I guess Boston being kind of the outlier, um,
00:29:46
Speaker
Teams that have a you know a goalie tandem that they that they can kind of ride for more than a couple years, if that makes sense, right?
00:30:01
Speaker
Because for a while there, and like I'm looking at one of my hockey cards here, Steve Mason with Columbus. He was with Columbus for... however long.
00:30:12
Speaker
um You know, again, Marc-Andre Fleur with Pittsburgh up until Vegas took him 2017. Henrik Lundqvist being another Carey Price being kind of the obvious one, right? I mean, he he's had a few goalie partners, but still the we didn't necessarily see so much goaltending carousel like we do nowadays like i i'm still just figuring out that john gibson's now on the detroit red wings right like um it's i mean like like that's that's such a random poll but
00:30:47
Speaker
you know for the for I remember him being on the Ducks you know forever. Obviously, change is going to happen. I'm not denying that. But just i'm just I'm wondering just with the goaltending, again, we'll just we'll just call it a goaltending carousel and just kind of how some teams, the Edmonton Oilers, don't necessarily manage their goaltending properly.
00:31:10
Speaker
i just i just i wonder if that... is one, not necessarily the entire contributing factor in terms of, you know, why the save percentage, the general save percentage is going down.
00:31:25
Speaker
Yeah, it could be. i mean, i just think overall, like, and I think the carousel ah portion of things is more of a byproduct as opposed to the cause. Like, i I just think the way the game's changed is kind of more the reason why we're seeing this and why we're seeing the goalie carousel. Because to me, I think too, like, I don't know how well the analytics are used for the goaltending side of things. Like from what I see, I don't think very well because to me, like,
00:31:58
Speaker
And we kind of touched on this when Ethan was on a ah little bit. um I think he kind of talked about like the fit of a goalie on a team, right? And like, to me, my argument for the Jari trade, like I think skill wise, it was a lateral movement from Skinner to the Jari.
00:32:20
Speaker
um But I think what Jari has to offer is he fits the Oilers kind of deficiencies a little bit better. Like I think his strengths in his game can cover what the Oilers give up a little bit better than Stu Skinner does. And I think we might start to see a shift more towards that where teams are kind of trying to find better fits. Because I think sometimes that carousel happens, like even look at the whole Jack Campbell thing, right? like Toronto's defense like was a lot better than people kind of andists or like would give them credit for, I guess, when Campbell played for them. And then when he came to Edmonton, the whole system just was not a good fit for him. Now, he had other issues. like He wasn't very good mentally in terms of like being able to kind of bounce back and stuff like that. and there was a plethora of things there. But...
00:33:16
Speaker
I believe that you know we might start to see people try or teams try and find goalies that fit as opposed to the best goalie out there necessarily. Because realistically, with any era of goaltending pretty much,
00:33:31
Speaker
you only have about a handful that are the elite level, like consistent starters that are going to sit there for, you know, 15 years and run, run a career like that. Right.
00:33:43
Speaker
um You know, like our current era, we're talking about the guys like Vasilevsky, like, you know, Sorokin, like Shuster, basically the Russian goalies. That's what we're talking about here. And then, you know, like it's, it's one of those things that I just think that,
00:34:01
Speaker
teams are gonna eventually manage their goaltending
Adapting Expectations and Performance
00:34:04
Speaker
better. And I think that's what's gonna help the save percentage kind of trend maybe reverse a little bit is more so that we go for fit as opposed to skill. And that might kind of be when we see the trend come back up.
00:34:19
Speaker
um But we'll see. That's just my opinion. We obviously don't have access to the analytics that these teams make. We don't have access to the conversations they have. So maybe they are already talking about this stuff heavily and all that, but who knows?
00:34:35
Speaker
Yeah. I don't know. it's just It's just one of many thoughts that I have. Kind of conspiracy theorist a little bit. But I guess just...
00:34:49
Speaker
transitioning away from that and we may not get to my segment went today and that's okay um transitioning away from that i guess just do we i guess just as hockey society dwindle that down more to goaltending society do we just have to accept that that yeah, they this is this is the new norm.
00:35:19
Speaker
You know, goalies aren't getting worse. Players are getting better. And it's just going to take time for, you know, the goalies to catch up. Yeah. And that's kind of why like I thought this would be a good discussion point, because I think that is exactly what we need to do is we need to start tempering our expectations a little bit more um when it comes to goaltending and understand that, you know, the 910 or 900 even percentage might not be the bar anymore, right? Like we might see two, three seasons from now that the average percentage is 80 or 885 again, right?
00:35:57
Speaker
um And there's a bunch of reasons for that kind of like we've touched on a few, but I just think the overarching structure of the game these days Like you even see, like, I don't know how many times I look at a game and I like you just look at the stat line and you're like, like the Markstrom one, like, oh, nine on 26. Wow. What a rough outing. Now, again, he definitely had a rough outing, but it's not just on him. Right. And you got to think, too, like I talked about these teams. They're going through meetings. They're going through the analytics. They're trying to see like.
00:36:32
Speaker
teams are structured to maximize high danger chances. They're not structured to just Let's throw everything at the net and hope something goes in, hits hits a shin pad and goes in, right? So like I think we've all been there as goalies where we've had like one goal on 42-shot games, but we barely broke a sweat because they're all from the outside right into the chest or you know whatever the case is, right? And those are the games we love as goalies. They're the stat patters that you're like, this was great. Like, you know, I saw everything, everything was right to my chest. I was set early. Whereas nowadays, like, I mean, you know, I know we probably sound like homers, but like the Oilers power play, I hope I never, like, I'm glad I never had to see something like that when I played. Right. Because like, good luck, you know, there's,
00:37:28
Speaker
80 different options that they have. And before you know it, there's like three passes and it's off Hyman skate on the back door and in or whatever the case is. Right. The game nowadays is all about maximizing high danger chances, which historically high danger save percentage is like in the 700s, right?
00:37:50
Speaker
think So the the thing is is, there used to be more low danger chances to round that out for goalie stats, whereas nowadays those are harder to come by. and The other thing too, though, we have to think of,
00:38:05
Speaker
The goal of the game of hockey is to score goals. And the mandate that the and NHL has as an entertainment business is to try and entertain people and people like goals. So they are going to do what they can subtly change stuff to maximize goals. So we see, you know, rules come in about some you know, penalties to try and make more power plays. Like the puck above glass is a great example, or the whole trapezoid delay of game thing with the goalies, right? They're trying to maximize offensive zone time. They're trying to maximize power plays and scoring chances. They've,
00:38:48
Speaker
made gear smaller for goalies. And then on the other side, the player gear is ridiculously good. Like, you know, we have eight year olds that can rip 60 mile an hour wrist shots bar down just because they've got, you know, a 35 flex stick that that just whips that puck with no effort whatsoever. Right.
00:39:12
Speaker
And, um, I just think that we need to start as a holy community, stop being so negative on this stuff.
00:39:22
Speaker
Right. And just accept that that's kind of the new norm. And the other thing, too, I wanted to touch on with expectations is for the younger kids, even at, you know, U15, AAA, U18, AAA, I think we need to have a little bit more grace for these kids, even at the higher levels, because of the way the game is changing. Like, I feel like people are really hard on these kids because they're not above 900, but I'm sure the majority of leagues across the world, at those even at those higher levels, are probably, you see the exact same numbers or the exact same trends, right? The trend's down for save percentage. The trend is up for goals against, right? It's just the way the game is played. It's the way the equipment is. It's the way the rules are nowadays.
00:40:14
Speaker
We're trying to maximize goals and that's going to hurt the goalies. And I think we need to understand that as kind of both a goalie community and a hockey community. Yeah.
00:40:27
Speaker
Hit the nail on the head on that one. I got, I got nothing else to add for that. I think just, ah yeah, we're seeing, we're seeing that dynamic trend and it, it will eventually tip back into goaltending's favor right now. We just have to, we just have to let the players have their moment and then they can, they can, they can relish in that for a little bit. And then we can, now we can be back on top. I think just, I think we need to,
00:40:54
Speaker
I don't know, not be so hard on ourselves and on our, on, and on each other, just kind of when it comes to, when it comes to all that stuff and just understand that, like Nathan, I'd say, you know, goals are going to go in. That's the whole point of playing hockey. And so just, we can do everything that we can to, to, um, you know, stop the puck, but sometimes you're just going to get a really good shot. You know, sometimes you're going to have a really bad bounce and there's nothing that you can do about it.
00:41:22
Speaker
So, um, Not saying don't try. Obviously, give it everything that you can, but I need a drink of water. um And just ah um you knowll just understand that, yeah, goals are going to go in. Stuff's going to happen. And just because you haven't you have ah a sub-900 save percentage doesn't mean that you're a bad goalie.
00:41:45
Speaker
It just means that everybody around you is just that extra a little bit better, and that gives us an opportunity to get better as well. The one thing I'll say to finish off too is um I think that this also kind of offers some insight as to what we as goalies can do to help try and kind of reverse the trend a little bit.
00:42:07
Speaker
I think, yes, it's good to focus on, you know, the the actual skills of our game. And yes, we need to be good at skating and tracking and blah, blah, blah.
00:42:19
Speaker
But I think the real value nowadays is going to really, and I think personally more so than ever, is going to be from our ability to understand the game and the ability to watch video and to break down systems and to be able to see the game in front of you and kind of, you know, process everything.
00:42:43
Speaker
that play ahead of time, like anticipate that play. And I think that's really what's going to set goalies apart nowadays because everybody's getting the same pretty much training when it comes to skills, right? Everybody knows what to do now pretty much for tracking. Everybody knows what to do now pretty much for skating. What I think is going to set goalies apart nowadays is their ability to understand where players are going or trying to do, what teams are trying to do with their systems and the chances they're trying to generate. And being able to read and anticipate those, I think, is going to be what's going to help goalies kind of be successful and in today's day and age for goal players.
00:43:33
Speaker
Yeah. um Yeah, I got nothing else to add to that. and I think just, yeah, it's going to happen. we'll we'll we'll We'll live with it. Well,
Engagement and Upcoming Opportunities
00:43:44
Speaker
take us home. that Actually, before you take us home, just wanted to remind you guys, if you are interested in virtual sessions, we've had a couple.
00:43:52
Speaker
um They have gone really well. um It's something that we're excited to offer. So if you guys are literally anywhere in the world, if we can make the time work, if we can match up time zones. um We can do a goalie session with you. All you need is literally one device that can connect to cell or Wi-Fi.
00:44:14
Speaker
and And that's about it, to be honest. um We'll give you drills. We'll walk you through it. we'll do that now if you have a second device that makes it even better because then we can um play back our uh our video and uh break it down for you guys but um yeah we'll put uh we'll keep putting that link in the show notes if you guys are interested um and we do have confirmation on our summer camp dates They are not ready for booking yet just because I haven't had time to put it all together on the website.
00:44:50
Speaker
But August 10th to 14th is going to be our summer dates for our hockey goalie camp. And then we're actually throwing a ringette goalie camp in there this year too from August 21st to 23rd since we do have three dedicated ringette goalie coaches on staff.
00:45:09
Speaker
um This season, so we are going to try a weekend camp for ring at goalies. And the other thing I'm actually going to explore because of the amount of interest I've had from people reaching out.
00:45:21
Speaker
I might see if I can grab some ice to do a strictly U9 slash kind of beginner goalie camp because I have had a lot of U9 goalies, well, goalie parents reach out asking about camps.
00:45:34
Speaker
And I think having something specifically tailored towards them that's a little bit lighter on the off-ice stuff, a little maybe, you know, more fun on the on-ice stuff while still doing kind of some lighter training.
00:45:50
Speaker
um I think that'll be good, but we'll, we'll see how that works, but mark those down in your calendar. And if you want to follow us on socials for updates on that, or head to truenorthgoaltending.com, scroll to the bottom at the footer and sign up for our email list. Cause we send out updates through there as well.
00:46:11
Speaker
Bye guys. See you later. Nathan's done my actual for me. really oh Not really. where the love and I love learning about new things that we have coming through the pipeline on the pod. Cause I don't get given the heads up. I'm like, oh I didn't know that this is happening. Cause we don't see each other ever anymore.
00:46:33
Speaker
Yeah. Well you can text me first, you know, you can text me first too. You know, Yeah, but I'm i'm i'm i'm busy, so.
00:46:44
Speaker
All right. Well, anyways, goalies, that will do it for another edition of the DIY Goalie Podcast presented by True North Goaltending. You can follow us on your favorite social media platforms, all at True North Goaltending, except on Instagram because we like to be different. That one is Y-E-G Goalie Coach. You can follow myself on Instagram at MondayGC.
00:47:04
Speaker
Yeah, go check us out, trunosgoaltending.com. We have a lot of exciting stuff on there if you are interested in booking a session with us and do happen to be in the Edmonton area. Yeah, just head over there.
00:47:17
Speaker
book a session, you can either pick a coach or you can just kind of select any coach and it'll give it to the the next available coach. when in terms to When it comes to those facility sessions, we have a lot of fun stuff on our website as well. We do have a concentration grid for those that want to kind of work their eyes and their mind a little bit. We do also have drills on there as well. So if you are a coach that is that is looking for goalie drills,
00:47:43
Speaker
excuse me you can head over to truenorthgoaltending.com. We do have all of our drills out there that we do use on a day-to-day basis, except Nathan just does have to update that.
00:47:54
Speaker
And so we can we will we will get on top of that as says as soon as we can. ah We also have our merch on there as well. ah So you're going to check all that out at truenorthgoaltending.com. If you are listening on your favorite podcast platforms, whether that is Apple, iHeart, or Spotify, if you are a returning listener, first off, thank you very much. Make sure you hit that share button as we are looking to expand our goaltending reach.
00:48:19
Speaker
And if you are a new listener to our fine program, you can hit that follow button, that subscribe button, whatever button that is that makes sure that gets you the latest and greatest episodes of our little show. um hit that follow button hit that share button hit the like button if you are on the youtube side of things and then same deal as well hit the subscribe button hit the share button because the more goalies that we were able to bring to our little goalie community the better um yeah and then like nathan had said we do have our our virtual goalie camps or not virtual goalie camp virtual goalie sessions you go check those out in the show notes um and then yeah all of our camps are uh
00:48:58
Speaker
All of our camp dates are released. And so you can go check all that out as well. I do have some that I would like to do, but I'm not going release that just yet. we will ah Nathan and I will chat about it, or maybe I'll just spring it up. yeah, on top of that, goalies, make some saves. Have a good one. We'll see you next time. Take care.