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111 - The Tandem Goalie Approach and Playoff Talk
1 Playsin 2 hours
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This week Connor and Nathan talk about the playoffs so far and the remaining 4 teams. We also take that into a discussion about goalie tandems and how that approach has changed how goalies are handled.
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Transcript
Introduction and Host Background
00:00:06
Speaker
Welcome to the DIY Goalie Podcast where hosts and goalie coaches Nathan Park and Connor Munday share their insights on how to become a better goalie.
00:00:18
Speaker
Goalies, how are we doing today? Welcome back to the DIY Goalie Podcast presented by True North Goaltending.
Offseason Activities and Busy Schedules
00:00:26
Speaker
Hopefully you guys are making the most of the offseason or those of you who are still in spring, you're probably getting pretty close to wrapping up.
00:00:35
Speaker
um But it's crazy that June's right around the corner and we're basically on the heels of of camp season pretty soon here and then all of a sudden we'll be right back into the swing of things. So, you know, off season, what off season? But, you know, we're here, we're still pushing through.
00:00:55
Speaker
We got, we actually have a lot going on for next season. It's going to be probably are like by far and away our busiest season yet.
Significance of Off-season Training
00:01:09
Speaker
And yeah, it's kind of exciting. Also pretty daunting, but so and there's there's been a few other organizations that have reached out in the last couple of weeks that we're going to be bringing on board. So yeah, um hopefully you guys are are basically right in the thick of your off season training, making sure that you guys are doing what you need to do to hit the ground running, but also kind of getting the break you need to from from the crease a little bit. But yeah, how are we doing today, Connor?
00:01:42
Speaker
You know, it's funny that, like, you mentioned offseason, what offseason, because this is, like, the first year that, like, I'm really experiencing that, right? Because last year i was like, oh, it's nice and quiet and had, like, no facility sessions, nothing. it was nice, quiet summer up until up until August.
00:01:58
Speaker
This year is just a complete 180. I think I've seen more facility sessions in the last week than I have all season essentially and um just a few other ice times as well to to to kind of get through and more facility sessions that are being booked, which, you know, as you like to say, is always ah is a good problem to have. it's So, um yeah, I don't know. It's it's it's nice to see the the progress that we have.
00:02:29
Speaker
and just kind of the growth of True North Goaltending and the brand and and everything. So, you know, um yeah, just happy to happy to see it. And again, like a just a good problem to have. But yeah, I don't know. It's um it's it's cool to see. um And yeah, just kind of can't wait to keep watching it grow and go from there.
Growth of True North Goaltending
00:02:55
Speaker
Yeah, this is honestly, I didn't think we'd be this far along this quickly like this. We just started year four of True North being a thing.
00:03:07
Speaker
And I don't know if you remember basically like two and a half seasons ago, it was literally just you, me and one other coach. And now we're up to like 30 coaches. We've got like a ring at arm doing that. Yeah, it's it's crazy. But Part of that's a lot of from you guys too, you guys listening, the support has been awesome, helped us grow. So that's kind of part of the reason why we're here, but Well, yeah not not to not to mention as well, and as much as I love to give you flack for it, and you give yourself flack for it as well, just the amount of stuff that you put on your plate and the amount of work that you put in behind the scenes, you know I think has to be talked about.
00:03:49
Speaker
you know And just it it doesn't go... I mean, Emerson agrees. like it It doesn't go unnoticed and just... you know, between myself and our staff and your wife and the kids and, everything, you know, we're just, just, it doesn't go unnoticed the amount of hard work that you put in behind the scenes. And so just, you know, just gotta, gotta give you your flowers on that one for a second. So yeah, thanks. I, uh, I sometimes wonder why i do this to myself.
00:04:19
Speaker
Um, but you know, it's, uh, it's for, for a greater cause, I guess. But yeah, no, it's, uh, cool to really see it starting to pay off and you know we'll ah we'll keep pushing some stuff for you guys.
Podcast Plans and NHL Playoffs
00:04:34
Speaker
Like we talked about earlier, there's a bit of a delay obviously, but like we talked about a couple of weeks ago, where we're kind of at the point that You know, were we're delayed a little bit, but we do have some cool things coming down the pipeline eventually.
00:04:52
Speaker
we We ran into some platform issues. We're kind of working on some fixes on the back end, but... But yeah, all all that will be good to see as we go. guests lined up as well. i Got to reach out to one in particular, see get him on before his offseason really starts to ramp up. Before we jump into anything, and and we don't talk about it a whole lot here on the BOD, but can we just talk about playoffs for a second, just kind of what's going on in the NHL? The fact that Jakob Dobish...
00:05:24
Speaker
is essentially the next Dwayne Rolison with the amount of penalties that that man has acquired in the playoffs. We got to get Pete Fry back on and be like, what the heck is he doing? Like, i don't know. But Dobish, but you know what, though? Dobish has been such a pleasure to watch.
00:05:43
Speaker
in these playoffs and just seeing him carry Montreal or just at least contribute to Montreal and their winning ways. I mean, right now, like I don't even know what the score is in the game that Montreal and Carolina are going at it right now. But last I checked, it was two, two. Yeah, it's two, two, ah two, two at the end of two. So. um Yeah, I don't know. Just the fact like Jakob Dobish, you know, doing his thing and, you know, just the success that we're seeing from him and the Montreal Canadiens.
00:06:13
Speaker
Frederick Anderson putting on some clinics as well with Carolina, especially in the first two series that Carolina has had. um Colorado's kind of faltering a little bit. I'm a little worried about them, but, um you know, Scott Wedgwood holding down the fourth there and then Carter Hart just, ah um you know, got tread lightly a little bit, but, you know, this know Carter Hart doing his thing with with with Vegas and just the success that he's had in the in these playoffs is is a great Cool to see and just, you know, kind getting to see some, um not a changing of the guard per se, but just kind of see some goaltenders that maybe you won't, that you knowt don't normally see, you know, in the limelight you know, get talked about a whole lot.
00:06:57
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's been a weird playoffs. And I can't really put my finger on it as to why, but it's just been a weird playoffs. And I don't know if it's because we have so many kind of quote-unquote fresh faces this year. Like you think about it's been a while since Philly's been in the playoffs. Obviously, Buffalo ended their streak.
00:07:19
Speaker
um I know Montreal technically isn't like a... a new team like they made their run in 2021 and they did make the playoffs last year, but it almost seems like the new core is kind of establishing themselves.
00:07:34
Speaker
Obviously we had like Anaheim, Utah make new kind of debuts. We had the Juggernaut Wild and Dallas series. just kind of been, I don't know, been a different playoffs, been a weird playoffs. It's kind of been a mix of new and, you know, some surprises and stuff like that. But, well, I mean, as as Oilers fans, too, we've been, you know, blessed with Stanley Cup final runs the last two years and, you know, some decent playoff runs in the last five. And obviously this year is kind of a step back year for them. But
00:08:08
Speaker
you know we'll see what uh we'll see what they do i don't know i just just something about just you know this year you know like you said yeah feels a little weird feels it feels a little strange but i mean i think just kind of the story of these playoffs is definitely the montreal canadians and yakub nobish Yeah, and I'm sure you guys will have an answer for this by the time this airs, so we can see we can see how wrong we are about this. But what do you think, Blackwood or Wedgwood for game four?
00:08:41
Speaker
Hasn't Colorado been running Wedgwood? Yeah, it's been Wedgwood pretty much. I think Blackwood got a couple starts early on, but... stop I don't know. Maybe, maybe I mean, like like, you're down, they're down 3-0 in the series, right? It's it's it's a weird spot. And I don't know. I'm in the i'm in the minority on this one.
00:09:01
Speaker
But I feel like you almost got to change it up in a sense, you know? And maybe that starts with putting the other goaltender in that, right? Because obviously, like, vegas or Vegas or not Vegas, Colorado hasn't had any success in the last three games with Vegas, right, and in these playoffs. Right.
00:09:17
Speaker
So I don't see a reason why not, because if you're wrong, you're going to get knocked out either way. right So why not take a chance? Why not... you know none Maybe not gamble your season, but you know why not just take a take an opportunity, change things up, you know mix shake up the lineup a little bit, and maybe it starts with your goaltending. I would maybe throw Blackwood into a game, see what happens, and go from there. because
00:09:48
Speaker
As everybody loves to say that goalies are such wild cards and, you know, you could have a hot goalie that runs cold and then a goalie that runs hot. Right. So i mean with with me, with the position of goaltending in general, it's such a such a 50 50 toss up and, you know, you never know what you're going to get like a box of chocolates. But I've.
00:10:08
Speaker
i don't I don't know. I think Jared Bednar would be crazy not to run Blackwood for for for tomorrow night's game. Or I guess for today's game as recording this. Or as of tomorrow. as When this goes live. Geez.
00:10:20
Speaker
Oh, no. This will go out the day after. Oh, yeah. No. Go out the day after. Yeah. That's right. Anyways. So we'll know exactly how that played out. But I don't know. Like, it's kind of like that new coach bump. It's like a new goalie bump a little bit. Right? Your team kind of.
00:10:35
Speaker
I mean. They're already backs against the wall, but they might might get a little bit of of fire there. i think where Colorado's at, because they do have more of a tandem situation, that they probably will switch it up.
Tandem Goalie Strategy in Playoffs
00:10:49
Speaker
um If you're looking at you know more like I don't know who's a good example nowadays. Even if it was like the Winnipeg Jets, they probably would still be rolling Hellebuck for a game yeah four in this situation. Right. But the the tandem situation um and we're seeing that more and more. And that might honestly even be ah a segment that we can revisit for a future podcast episode is the the tandems nowadays. But
00:11:18
Speaker
um We're seeing that more and more, right, where I don't know, like, there's very few teams now that make runs in playoffs with one guy riding the whole run, right? I mean, obviously, the last two years, Bobrovsky has kind of held the Ford in Florida, but, I mean, the other team they played in Edmonton is...
00:11:39
Speaker
rotated between their two goalies right with Skinner and Pickard um I mean Dallas is another one that kind of rode Ottinger but uh you know we're seeing more and more of that guys or or teams are relying on both of their guys and kind of making those adjustments like mid-series or mid-playoff run or whatever the case is right and um It's one of those things that it's a good lesson too for you younger goalies out there. And I'll kind of attribute it back to my first year junior when we had Schwartz, he is our goalie coach.
00:12:16
Speaker
And he made the comment, he was kind of like, and like before playoffs, cause we had three goalies. So he brought us two backup goalies in, I guess, to the office. Cause we knew like the other guy was getting the, getting the reins.
00:12:33
Speaker
um But Schwartz, he pulled us in and he's like, okay guys, so you guys need to know your role. And this was back in 2012. So the 2006 cup run for the Oilers was still a little bit fresh, but yeah,
00:12:48
Speaker
he He asked, he's like, well, who was Carolina's starting goalie in the 06 playoffs? And we're like, oh, Cam Ward. And he's like, no, no, no. It was Marty Gerber. Marty Gerber was their starting goalie at the start of playoffs, going into playoffs.
00:13:04
Speaker
And for probably the first two series, they kind of went back and forth between the two, like because both of them kind of struggled a little bit before Ward really found his footing and then kind of took the ball and ran with it. And he was lights out in that Stanley Cup final series, especially game seven. He was lights out.
00:13:25
Speaker
um But like, to be honest, back then, that's kind of a little unheard of. And nowadays, that's like almost the norm, right? Like you almost need both your guys to go through.
00:13:37
Speaker
um But it's just a good lesson for you younger goalies to understand that if you are in a situation where You're not the guy like the starting guy. Right. For a playoffs like this, you just never know what will happen, whether it's an injury, whether some like the other guy struggles, whatever the case is, being ready and having that mindset of I might have to go in and play savior. Right. That's you know, that's I think something good to to kind of have in the back of your mind.
00:14:11
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, you know what colorado you know i was saying? about Colorado has an opportunity to do something that the Bruins couldn't figure out when they had Allmark and Swayman, right? Because they tried to go for that tandem, but I think they went about it the wrong way in the playoffs trying to alternate every game. you know I still think that, yeah, you are probably going to have your guy that...
00:14:31
Speaker
um you know that you run with or that's going to be your primary guy but for the sake of you know maybe preventing burnout or from preventing from over from overdoing whoever it is that you're that you're running with um you know florida you know you know florida you know it's funny that you mentioned absolutely good example too because i'm pretty sure they but you know i don't know if it was in the oilers series either one of them or maybe as one of their playoff series beforehand.
Choosing Between Rookie and Veteran Goalies
00:15:01
Speaker
You know, I'm pretty sure they like rode Tarasov. I think it was Tarasov and Knight, you know, maybe a couple of games, you know, to give some, you know, give Bobrovsky some rest.
00:15:12
Speaker
But, I don't know. Like, I just, I don't think we need to go like full tandem switch goalies every game, but there definitely needs to be that change of, um you know, Hey, maybe you ride a guy for the first three, give your, give the other guy game four, ride the, ride the guy for next two or something along those lines.
00:15:32
Speaker
Right. So I don't know. So, so, so Colorado, Colorado has an opportunity to, to, to really kind of make a case for why tandems work. And this is how you go about it. And obviously it's going to be different for every team, but that's, I don't know, just, I, that there's, there's, there's some, there's some legitimacy to it.
00:15:52
Speaker
Were you surprised that Carolina rolled right to Freddie Anderson as opposed to Busy? No, not really. Because, I mean, I don't know, like, Brandon, i mean, I haven't seen much of Brandon Bussey, but i think that situation is different compared to Colorado, right? So, you know, like Colorado, they have two well-established guys, both in Blackwood and Wedgwood, because they they both can play at that NHL level. Not saying that Brandon Bussey can't, but he's still a baby in the league, right? so
00:16:35
Speaker
I wouldn't necessarily put him at the forefront or really, really say like, hey, yeah, we're going to give Freddie Anderson two or we're going to give you two, right? It may be, hey, we'll give Freddie Anderson the first three, see how he's feeling come come game four or if, you know, we have to switch him out in the game, whatever, right? But it's not like, hey, let's give Freddie Anderson two, we'll give Bussie two. Or no, Freddie Anderson three, give Bussie two, depending on the series, right? So that to me, just the situation there in Carolina is a heck of a lot different compared to Colorado. Because Colorado, like I said, they have two established NHL goaltenders and they have the numbers to back it up.
00:17:19
Speaker
Brandon Bussey, he's still a baby in this league. And so he has to find his footing before I would, in my mind, I would even think about, um ah you know, maybe running a more tandem with him and Freddie Anderson.
00:17:36
Speaker
Yeah. My argument to that, I guess, and I know the goalie science guys talk about this a lot, but it's kind of like, you know, a bit of,
00:17:47
Speaker
a sunk cost fallacy a little bit, trying like sometimes to go with the veteran guy. If you have you know a younger kind of rookie guy ready to go, I mean, you're seeing what Dobish is doing, right, in in Montreal. like I mean, not that Carolina has really come up against any sort of adversity, and they probably are still in the third round if Bussie plays. But I think it's different, though, because like,
00:18:14
Speaker
Anderson, even though historically he has been a solid NHL guy, he did struggle this year and he is getting older. He does have injury issues and Bussie kind of came out of nowhere. um And the Colorado guys, and in my opinion, like,
00:18:29
Speaker
They're both really good goalies, but they've, like, both of them haven't really had, like, a starting job. Like, Blackwood kind of did in New Jersey, but because of his injury issues, he didn't really get much time to run with that.
00:18:44
Speaker
And then even in San Jose for that little bit, he he wasn't really, you know, the guy. He was kind of more of a tandem situation too. So, um like...
00:18:56
Speaker
I don't know. it's It's a tough situation, obviously. Brenda Moore, like you know he i think he strikes me as one of those guys that probably favors more of that veteran presence and that experience more so.
00:19:10
Speaker
And obviously, like I said, Anderson's taking the ball and run with it. But and I just thought it was interesting just given the drastically different regular seasons that those two guys had. And I imagine that anderson was probably on a pretty short leash like i think he's definitely extended that leash given the fact that he started eight no and you know let in like what like something stupid like 12 holes in those eight games or whatever it was i don't even know but i mean like okay so like the so like the thing is right again with colorado like yeah both like they're both and a they both been nhl backup goaltenders like i don't think any one of them have really been a
00:19:52
Speaker
a designated starter. i look i just I look at experience, right? And so I think that's why Brynne Moore is lean more towards Freddie Anderson compared to Bussey, right? Yeah.
00:20:07
Speaker
Sorry, just both just both Blackwood and Wedgwood, they have that experience. Right. Jakob Dobesh is kind of an outlier because he got thrown into the position that he's in because Caleb pri or Caden Primo couldn't get the job done. Sam Montembeau couldn't stay healthy.
00:20:24
Speaker
Jacob Fowler is as much as of much of a baby in this league as Brandon Bussey is, right? So Dobesh just kind of got thrown into the position. And, I mean, he's one of those weird outliers that he was able to – take it and hit the ground running essentially and it hasn't faltered yet knock on wood but just i think just i think that's just where the difference lies because i mean montreal i mean again in their goaltending situation ever really had an established goaltender like carrie price right i mean it's gonna be hard to live up to carrie price's legacy and carrie price's example anyways in the bar that he set but
00:21:04
Speaker
I mean, who'd like after Carey Price, they had Jake Allen and other guys who I can't even remember the names of because that's how relevant they were. And then you bring in Malton Bo, who barely has played any NHL games. Bring in Caden Primo, who also has barely played in and and and NHL games.
00:21:23
Speaker
Again, Jakob Dobich being that one kind of outlier, essentially, who, again, hasn't played as many games, but he has just been able to take his position and run with it. And I think that also helps because the Montreal Canadiens core is so good.
00:21:37
Speaker
And again, we haven't seen much of Jacob Fowler as well. So I just, I don't know. we just There are different levels to this. And obviously no two goalies, no two teams are the same.
00:21:50
Speaker
But yeah, I would have expected Colorado to maybe maybe be doing as baby be doing better than they have been, especially in the Vegas series. But mean, hey, they've done well in the first two series, so can't really complain. that much. Vegas hasn't even been a team that we've talked about yet, and they have two, again, well-established goaltenders in Cary Price and Carter Hart and Aiden Hill.
00:22:14
Speaker
You know what I mean? So it's just, again, there's there's different levels to that. um Not supposed to be our topic of conversation for today's pod, but it it seems to be ah it seems to be going that way. But I don't know. it's it's it's ah It's up to you if you want to switch gears here, if you want to keep going on about it. But I think we've i think we've opened a can of worms here.
00:22:38
Speaker
Yeah, no, like I'm OK. We can always push push things back to like to next week and then we yeah we have content preloaded. No, but I do think it is an interesting conversation because like like I said before, I know the goalie science guys have talked lots about it in terms of like, you know, at what point do you go with the less experienced goalie versus the more experienced one when it comes to, um you know, it if they are showing signs that they're potentially the quote unquote better goalie, right? And i think it is an interesting conversation to have and something to be thinking about that, like, what is that line? Because at some point,
00:23:30
Speaker
you're, you know, as you like to call him baby in the league. it was okay Okay. Okay. For, for the record, that wasn't the term that I was going to use. I just happened to look at my daughter in the, in the webcam that I'm looking at here and I was like, oh baby. All right. That's the word I'm using.
00:23:49
Speaker
So Connor doesn't know the word rookie, but, um, so, um, At some point, though, those guys eventually have to get their feet wet, right? And like if if you have a goalie of the future, maybe you're not running him for the first playoff run if you do have an established guy, but why not throw him in? like If you're Carolina and you're up 3-0 the series...
00:24:18
Speaker
is it worth giving Basia a look just to give him a taste, right? You know what I mean? Like in one of those two series that they swept, i like why not throw him out and try and get his feet wet a little bit, right? And and set him up. Like, I mean, we saw it in Edmonton, like how,
00:24:37
Speaker
much Skinner just got thrown to the wolves because of the whole Mike Smith, Mikko Koskinen situation. And then, you know, Jack Campbell comes on, they, that fell apart real quick. And then all of a sudden you're just like, okay, well we got Stu Skinner and that's like, Hey, you're a rookie. Here you go. Run, run, run us to the cup. Thanks. Um, and, uh,
00:25:05
Speaker
And so it's at some point, these guys do need to get a bit of a taste so that when it comes down to it and when you need to rely on him, like, you know, he's he's got a little bit of that that experience, right? and And at the same time too, like,
00:25:22
Speaker
are like how many coaches in the history of, of hockey have potentially lost themselves playoff series playoff runs because they have stuck to a guy that was maybe not the better of the two goalies because he's the quote unquote established experienced veteran. You know what i mean? And it's like,
00:25:47
Speaker
Yeah, okay, I get it. I get why. And I, you know, I tend to lean towards that. But if you do have a younger goalie that is showing signs of being ready, why not give him a taste at the very least or make him your day one starter with a short leash? If he falters, then go back to your other guy. You know what I mean? Like I think too many coaches put too much emphasis on the experience part of it.
00:26:15
Speaker
and you know because of that like again at what point are you kind of hindering that development because you're not giving your young guy a shot to kind of see what he can what he can do too right and then there's also the hunger factor right like those younger guys tend to be hungry to want to make an impression now sometimes that can backfire because they try too hard and like we all know this is a position that uh you know, trying harder doesn't necessarily translate to good results.
00:26:49
Speaker
um But i I think it is worth kind of shifting the mindset a little bit away from the traditional. And, you know, maybe like I'm not talking if you have your veteran guy, like I'm not saying play a rookie over like Connor Hellebuck or, you know, like something like that. But you know at At some point, these guys have to get the development. They have to get that experience under their their belt. And I think too many guys kind of kick that can down the road.
Developing Young Goalies vs. Experienced Ones
00:27:23
Speaker
And I think it's better for younger goalie development if they at least get a taste a little early on, you know what I mean?
00:27:33
Speaker
you know as you know i' like as As you were talking, I was trying to think about the science behind it. you know or like When would be the ample opportunities to throw in maybe your your younger goaltender or your your your younger backup goaltender in the league, let's say. So let's put it this way. So if I'm... don't know. Let's say Montreal.
00:27:58
Speaker
Okay. And... The way that I would look at it, if I was Martin St. Louis, in the regular season, i think it's an obvious, and I think most most coaches that I've worked with, we've done this in any way, shape, or form. You're going to give your rookie goaltender, your inexperienced goaltender, kind of lighter games, right? So, and then maybe you mix in the one, you know, where it's, where it's against a tougher opponent, but that's a performance based decision.
00:28:34
Speaker
right so if you So if Montreal plays Jacob Fowler against teams like Chicago, San Jose, Vancouver, because they were bottom of the barrel this year, um those would probably be the teams that I would give him to start depending on what the schedule looks like. And then maybe depending on again, a how the team's doing and how he performed, he, Jacob Fowler, performed in the last few games that he has played, maybe you pit him up against a team later. little bit tougher you know a team like minnesota dallas utah boston right buffalo even mix in there as well right you kind of expand his his his reach of games depending again depending on the performance based on that ah but on whatever the goalie coach evaluates then you put him up against a team like colorado vegas edmonton florida
00:29:35
Speaker
Right. Team, you know, in that nature, in that progression come playoffs. It's a little bit different. And maybe you look at it based on what are our needs and do we need to make any changes? Right. And obviously, a lot of times people are going to say, no, don't make changes, run with the lineup and whatever else.
00:29:55
Speaker
But OK, so let's say in in in Vegas or in the Vegas, Colorado game, let's say we put Jacob Fowler on on on Colorado. OK, do you do you maybe run Jacob Fowler or Mackenzie Blackwood game three rather than running back to Dolbish Wedgwood game game game three?
00:30:16
Speaker
Right. Or, hey, we're up three nothing in this series. You know, if we want to have a gentleman sweep, you know, let's let's let's run. Let's run Fowler, you know, game four because we're already up three nothing in the series or we're up three one series whatever.
00:30:32
Speaker
Right. Take those risks. Take those opportunities. Again, it needs to be a. not a data analyze, but it needs to be an analyzed strategic approach to it. And maybe that, and so just to get in my mind, thinking of thinking of it off top of my head, that's how I would approach it And this is why people don't give me head coaching jobs, by the way. um you know That's, that's maybe how I would approach it. And that is something that I have tried to lobby for in the past. Me like, Oh, okay. Cause I remember when I was coaching Tomahawks,
00:31:04
Speaker
like the the one team in high Prairie was just a powerhouse and it was just a powerhouse all the time. It didn't. And we always played our, our top goaltender against him and we lost all the time. And so I kept trying to go to our coach, but like, why don't we play our younger, little bit less experienced goaltender? And he looked at me like I had three heads and just like, well, obviously it's not working with who we have now. It's not to say that our starting goaltender is a bad goaltender because he isn't, but,
00:31:31
Speaker
Right now, this team hasn't figured out. Why don't we throw somebody else in there? And if they figure them out, okay, well, then it was experiment that failed, right? There's nothing wrong with trying new things. There's nothing wrong with making a change, and as long as it but as long as it's not a change for the sake of making change. I'm looking at you, Stan Bowman and the Edmonton Overs, trading Suits, Skinner for Tristan Jari, but i hope I put that underneath. I put that behind me.
00:31:55
Speaker
oh That's the point that I'm trying to drive at. Right. So I feel like there needs to be a somewhat strategic approach or somewhat kind of thoughtful approach. And this is where I think the communication between goalie coaches and head coaches needs to happen.
00:32:16
Speaker
You know, just having that, you know, just discussion and maybe just, Hey, let's, let's throw in Blackwood for game for for game four. what' you know What do we have to lose? we get if we If we play Wedgwood, we potentially get knocked out. If we play Blackwood, we potentially get knocked out. Obviously, it hasn't worked with Wedgwood for the last three games against Vegas. let's Why don't we switch it up, put Blackwood in, see what happens.
00:32:41
Speaker
You definitely have unlocked a rant for a future episode with something you said there. and Oh. So I am writing it down.
00:32:57
Speaker
Stay tuned. Welcome back to the DIY Gully podcast. i'm gonna just This is going to be an hour-long episode of telling Connor why he's wrong. No, no. it's It actually has nothing to do with you. Yeah.
00:33:10
Speaker
But here's your spoiler or not spoiler, your teaser for next week. It might get spicy. Stay tuned. yeah But yeah no, I think um like I understand why coaches do it like it's that. um it's It's similar to that saying when it comes to like business or stocks or finance or whatever, like the saying is nobody ever got fired buying IBM.
00:33:38
Speaker
And the thing is, is that was because it was the high end, safe conglomerate stock. And. um and if it tanked well everybody was wrong so whatever it is what it is right and it's the same thing i think here where if you run with your veteran guy and you lose nobody really bats an eye and if you were run your rookie guy everybody questions that decision if you lose right but if that guy goes on a run you look like a genius right and it's one of those things like
00:34:17
Speaker
I think too many coaches sometimes play the safe route. And I'm not saying every situation has to have the young rookie goalie get put in there. Like, that's obviously not what I'm saying. But I think too many people overlook a bit of a skill gap between a rookie and and more established goalie, or not even necessarily a rookie, but just like a less established goalie and a more established goalie. Sometimes that skill gap gets overlooked because of the experience. And sometimes, unfortunately, the less experienced goalie might not get the playing time that they probably deserve um because of that. And that's kind of more of the point that I...
00:35:04
Speaker
I want to make, I guess, is that, you know, sometimes I think we need to put a little bit more stock into the performance and a little less stock into what they've done in
Goaltender Development and Team Strategies
00:35:14
Speaker
the past. Right. Because, I mean, we see it all the time to like former solid goalies.
00:35:22
Speaker
At, you know, they they can experience dips near the end of their career. Right. Or like kind of downfalls or whatever. Right. I mean,
00:35:33
Speaker
happens to the best, like every age catches up to everybody, right? if If you're a little bit slower, if you're prone to injuries or whatever, like you just might not be able to make it, you know what I mean? And so I think, I mean, we kind of saw that with Demko and Shilovs a couple of seasons ago, right? Like, um,
00:35:52
Speaker
You know, sometimes it's good to give the young guys a little bit of a look so that they can be ready for when they actually have to take it over for good. on But I do think that it's like everything. It's not cut and dry. It's not black and white. There's a lot of gray area there and it is going to be situational.
00:36:11
Speaker
but i do think that uh that sometimes i think coaches play it too safe and i get it like a lot of them this is you know putting food on their table right so they they're trying for job preservation but i mean at the end of the day they they only have a two to five year you know window anyway so they may as well go home go big or go home right so But yeah, I just think I would personally like to see a little bit more opportunity given to some of the you know less experienced goalies if they've earned it and if they deserve it um and not just run the experience guy just because he's quote unquote been there before, right?
00:36:58
Speaker
I can't remember what team it was. And I feel like it was recently too, but You know, it was they had like their established guy and they had their up and comer and they just refused to play their up and comer, especially in big moments and when things weren't going the way that they were supposed to be going.
00:37:23
Speaker
can't remember what team that was um can't remember who it was per se but i i i just i remember that being a thing and we were all just kind of wondering why didn't you run with the other guy and see what happened anyways that's the that's the title of this episode today go big or go home um uh Yeah, I don't i don't know. just um it's ah mean we mean We see that like across all age levels and different different leagues and such, right? It's that they go with their quote-unquote number one guy and the other the other two goalies or the other goalie just doesn't even get a lick ris whatsoever. Yeah.
00:38:12
Speaker
yeah just i think there needs to be a shift change there and again that stems back to the overall conversation of head coaches not knowing anything about goaltenders which is a complete farce and there's no reason for them not to anymore but that's another rant for a different time that maybe we've already talked about but maybe we just need to rehash it just because um Yeah, I don't know. It'll be interesting to see what Colorado does.
00:38:39
Speaker
um I love the way that Montreal is handled. Jakob Dobish. I see what they do with Jacob Fowler if they decide to keep him around. um Kind of the one thing, again, that I wish that the Oilers did with Stuart Skinner. um You know, going back to that conversation, we've talked about that before where... You know, they they tried, you know, the let's pair him with a more veteran goaltender in Jack Campbell. Look how well that turned out. Right. So, again, just the the the management of your goaltenders there, it is delicate, no doubt, but. um
00:39:15
Speaker
you know When it works, it works. right And we've seen that with the Boston Bruins. We're seeing that right now with Colorado. We're seeing that with um Montreal as well to an extent with Jakob Dovich and how they're managing him.
00:39:33
Speaker
Right. Vegas, again, another one. Carter Hart coming back into the league after December and when what he's been able to do um after everything that's gone. on that We're not going to get into. um But just again, um him and Aiden Hill and job that they've done.
00:39:50
Speaker
Right. Even go so far back as, you know, Minnesota with Philip Gustafson and it's Gustafson, right? Yeah. Yeah. Philip Gustafson and, and yes, for Wallstead.
00:40:01
Speaker
Right. And we've seen that switch where you Wallstead has kind of taken over a little bit more from Gustafson, but again, too well to, or yeah, Wallstead has established himself more into the league now. um And just, but having Philip Gustafson with him as well on Gustafson, being able to, to take that load um into it as well. Yeah.
00:40:26
Speaker
Oh, there's one other team that I was going to say. I don't remember. Oh, ah Buffalo. UPL and Levi, isn't it? Levi's still on that roster. Lion. Levi's in. Oh, Alex Lyons.
00:40:38
Speaker
Yeah, but they're kind of their young guy now, I think, that they're running with is Colton Ellis. I don't know about Levi. I don't know if he's... You don't think he stays? that's I don't know. That's a tough one.
00:40:50
Speaker
They don't seem like they've given him a couple of shots and they just don't seem to want to let him run with it. So I i don't know what's going on there, but it seems like Ellis has kind of jumped him on the depth chart there.
00:41:06
Speaker
on But yeah, um before i add in, did you have anything else to add there? No, not particularly. I was just i was just lifting i was just listing off goaltenders at this point. But but yeah but i just I think just the overall message is when you manage your goaltenders properly, it works. And we've seen that.
00:41:32
Speaker
Now we need everybody to buy into it, essentially. Yeah, because like, unfortunately, i don't get a lot of time to watch and NHL. And when I do a lot of times, it's usually the Oilers. I've started to get away from that a little bit. But the one thing that really irked me about the Stuart Skinner situation was there was a stretch where miko ko or sorry Mike Smith got hurt.
00:41:59
Speaker
And think he was hurt for like 12 or 13 games or something like that. So they called up Stuart Skinner. And out of those 12 or 13 games, I think he got one start.
00:42:12
Speaker
If that, he might not have even gotten any starts. And to me, I was like, at the time, I'm like, this is the perfect opportunity to see what you have in this guy.
00:42:23
Speaker
Do I think you need to run him for 12 straight? No, obviously not. But why not give Koskinen three and give Skinner one? And then he gets three games throughout that stretch, right? And then you kind of get an idea of where he's at.
00:42:41
Speaker
um As opposed to then during the next season, you lose Mike Smith and Mikko Koskinen. And now you have an unknown with Stu Skinner and you signed Jack Campbell.
00:42:56
Speaker
And we all kind of know how that turned out, right? Like maybe if you get a little bit of a look on Stu Skinner, you have a better idea of somebody you can bring in.
00:43:06
Speaker
um I know the free agency was thin. I think it was Campbell and Kemper were the two high-end goalie names. And I know Kemper mentioned he didn't really want to come to Canada. us So that is what it is. But...
00:43:22
Speaker
Yeah, I just, that was one that I think was your opportunity to see what you had and have an idea going into the next season as to as to where Stu was in his development. And then I think maybe things play out a little bit differently. Probably not, but you never know.
00:43:41
Speaker
The other organization, though, that really intrigues me is Detroit. and I almost wonder if they...
00:43:53
Speaker
are almost over-marinating their goalies and going to lose out on some of them because of it, right? like Because at the NHL level, they have Gibson, they have Talbot,
00:44:07
Speaker
um then they have Augustine, and they have Kosa, and oh what's that Czech guy? Yeah, it sounds right. it's It's something like that. I don't think it's exactly that, but I can't remember for sure his name. But you've got like three like legit potential up-and-coming goalies.
00:44:35
Speaker
Why not have one of them have a cup of coffee for a little bit and see what you have, or two, or three, right? um Like to me, I'm just like, are are they almost getting to the point that they're developing them too much in in the lower levels, right? and And not really giving them the chance to breathe and to get up to that next level and whatnot, right? Like talk about an embarrassment of riches with with their their organization right now, right? Like, I mean, i don't know.
00:45:10
Speaker
i I know there's lots of talks of around here anyways of the Oilers going after one of those guys, but and like Kosa has the ties to Edmonton as being a former Royal King. But that being said, I mean, we see how well that's played out with Jari so far.
00:45:27
Speaker
um But even still, right, like, I don't know, at at some point they got to pass the torch a little bit and I don't know, like, are they gonna wait too long, right? Like that's that's kind of the other interesting thing about that is, is there such a thing as as waiting too long?
00:45:48
Speaker
well you know You know who we need to ask?
00:45:54
Speaker
Who's that? You know who we need to ask? Brian Decord, director of the goaltending for the Detroit Red Wings. Got to bring him on the pod and be like, hey, Brian, what you doing there, buddy? I don't know. brian's Brian's good guy. I've never met him, but I've heard he's a good guy. Yeah, he'll probably be like, I've been doing this way longer than you, Joshua. I know, like obviously in everything, like there's politics and other factors and people who don't understand goaltending making decisions. But yeah, no, I, I i see what you're saying.
00:46:36
Speaker
And i mean, yeah as an Edmonton fan and seeing how poorly they've handled their goaltenders, for as long as I've been alive. like i thought I thought that maybe they had figured it out with Stuart Skinner a little bit, and then they go and ship him off. um But no, i and I understand what you're saying, and that's why watching teams like Montreal, you know who is who developed and brought in Carey Price, developed and brought in Jakob Dobish, so far, I mean, what i mean even Patrick Waugh, right? like Montreal has a really good track record of goaltenders right now.
00:47:12
Speaker
um And then, I mean, Jose Theodore being another one as well, right? um be I mean, versus watching a team like Edmonton or, I know, who who's who's another team that is just terrible at developing goaltenders? Yeah.
00:47:33
Speaker
can't think of it. feel like Buffalo. i feel like i know I feel like Buffalo's figured it out a little Traditionally, Buffalo. Traditionally, Philly. like Even before the whole shenanigans happened, Carter Hart was just thrust into Philly's starting net. Yeah. ah yeah But anyways, just but anyways just the point being is just you know seeing the changes or just seeing the differences between those clubs. I mean, obviously every club has different needs and such. I'm not disputing that, but just seeing the the differences, but just the development model isn't the same, but it is at the same time.
00:48:14
Speaker
Right. And we've you and I have laid it out. Hey, here's what you do with your goaltenders. You know, here's here's what you try and do. I mean, I mean, obviously resource permitting, obviously, but that is the general.
00:48:28
Speaker
What are you doing? That is the general kind of roadmap, essentially, of how you should be approaching that, depending on, and again, all level depending.
00:48:40
Speaker
I don't know. um Again, we kind of went on a tangent that we definitely didn't mean to, but, you know, that's that's that's all right. but some good Yeah, I don't know. Just something that I thought about. mean, again, just really kind of with how goaltending in the playoffs have been this year, it's been it's been fun to watch.
00:48:59
Speaker
um and just you know see where see what happens tonight and the written and the rest of this Montreal-Carolina game, which not entirely sure where they're at. Still 2-2 to minute 23 left to go in the third period.
00:49:12
Speaker
um you know all that All that fun stuff there and just kind of seeing where all that goes is going be interesting. Yeah. The one last thing that I'll add,
00:49:25
Speaker
You know, who's like a crazy, sneaky, good goalie factory is the Rangers. Like, yeah, that's right.
00:49:36
Speaker
Like they're really good at building up and selling high. Like if you think about anti Ranta, like yeah he was the next. I mean, I don't know if that's the benchmark you'd want to go for. But no, like, listen, like at the time that they traded him, he was like the next sought after prospect.
00:49:54
Speaker
Same thing with Georgiev, same thing with Cam Talbot. Right. Like, and then you, out of out of out of those three names, Calum Talbot's the only respectable one there, but, but what I'm saying is at the time that all three of those guys got traded,
00:50:12
Speaker
they were like the big next up and coming names. So agree what I'm saying is they are really good at building up and selling high. think Yeah. That's, but yeah. Okay. Yeah. I see. I see where you're going at from now I mean, again, like I said, like Cam Talbot,
00:50:31
Speaker
you know i mean We had the opportunity to see him here at Edmonton. and again i I still say that he's been one of the better Oilers goaltenders prior to Skinner, but after Rolison. that you know just Again, like I said, like he's the only respectable name on that list.
00:50:50
Speaker
Ronta went to Arizona afterwards, right? Yeah, and he had a he had a couple good initial seasons. So, I mean... was his bad as the end of his career or was he as good as the start of his career in arizona ruin well no i mean that's that's that's maybe a hey evan are you hey evan are you listening to this podcast i need you to do a i need you to do an article for me um you know but that's you know maybe that's that's maybe something worth looking into and um maybe a little bit of research on um not saying that i'm willing to do that by any stretch but uh
00:51:30
Speaker
um But yeah, no, I so I see I see what you're saying. um But I mean, I think you still have to look at the the product afterwards that all out that everything said and done. Yeah. But what I find interesting with all three of those names is that all of them had success for the first couple seasons with their new team like Georgiev for the first couple seasons in Colorado was legit.
00:51:58
Speaker
And same with like Talbot and Edmonton, same with Ranta and in Arizona. And then all of them kind of faltered from there, but they initially had a couple of good seasons.
00:52:10
Speaker
But then you also look at their starters and Lundqvist and Shosturkin. And like even like Quick had a pretty good resurgence there when he when he got there. So. I don't know. They seem to be doing something right there. A little bit of a random tangent, but I just like they've always been one that's been intriguing to me because they seem to build up these young backups behind whoever their stud starter is that just look unreal. And like everybody's like they're super sought after by everybody. yeah And then they go, they have success for a couple of years and then just drop off. So I don't know what it is in New York that they're
00:52:49
Speaker
you know really good at selling high on these guys but i just that one's interesting to me so the uh i mean i don't think he's any more about the francois alair effect definitely i don't definitely had something to do with it but uh yeah yeah i don't know But anyway, yeah I think we can cap her
Podcast Conclusion and Promotions
00:53:10
Speaker
there. So, yeah, I would, i would agree again, definitely not where this episode was supposed to go today, but that's, that's all right. And we will, ah we'll leave it there. So thank you very much everyone for listening and watching another episode of the DIY goalie podcast presented by.
00:53:26
Speaker
True North goaltending. Make sure you guys hit us up on your favorite social media platforms, all at True North goaltending, except on Instagram because we like to be different. That one is Y-E-G. Goalie Coach, I like how that caption is just stuck this entire time every time that I do an outro. It's always a fun one. You can follow myself on Instagram at MondayGC.
00:53:48
Speaker
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00:54:40
Speaker
Hey guys, subscribe, join our camps. and No, but you can add to truenorthgoaltending.com. We've started to figure out our drill library a little bit here. So in the next couple weeks, we will be adding a lot more of our drills to that for you guys. So you can find that at truenorthgoaltending.com as well as our merch.
00:55:04
Speaker
You can book online sessions with us for our facility in Nisku if you are in the Edmonton area. You can also join our camps. We only have three spots left in our four day one. We only have five spots left in our beginner one and our ring at goalie camp has 10 spots left.
00:55:22
Speaker
So those have been filling up pretty fast lately. All of that's available at truenorthgoaltending.com. um So again, appreciate you guys listening and tuning in. yeah It's awesome to see how far that our reach has gotten everywhere around the world. So kudos to you guys. And yeah, we'll see you guys next week. Take care, goalies. Make some saves.