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094 - Outlaw Junior Hockey and the Overuse of the RVH
139 Plays2 months ago
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Connor sits down and talks about his experience with outlaw junior leagues building off our conversation about open borders last week. He also discusses the overuse of the RVH and butterfly slides
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Transcript
Introduction and Updates
00:00:06
Speaker
Welcome to the DIY Goalie Podcast, where hosts and goalie coaches Nathan Park and Connor Munday share their insights on how to become a better goalie.
00:00:18
Speaker
Goalies, how we doing? and Welcome back to the DIY Goalie Podcast, presented by True North Goaltending. How we doing? Nice to see everyone. Feels like it's been a while, honestly. i mean, it's only been a week, but I don't know. Just sometimes, you know, when you're not on the pod, it...
00:00:35
Speaker
it if It feels like a month, so I missed all you guys. Sorry i wasn't there last week. I did have some stuff to take care of, but I am back here today, and Nathan is on assignment for this week. So yours truly is back holding down the fort.
Open Borders in Hockey Leagues
00:00:51
Speaker
I do have a couple of things that I did just kind of want to touch on today. I did just want to jump on the open borders thing that Nathan was talking about last week, kind of provide my couple thoughts on it, especially coming from the outlaw junior league side of things. um
00:01:07
Speaker
I coached in that league. I had actually had a good time in that league, but I know that there is some superstition and just kind of some negativity about it. So I did just kind of want to dive into that a little bit. And then as well as um because, you know, we're doing a solo episode today, I did just want to tackle the um just kind of the the the technicality side of things because we don't so we should be talking about that more, but we really don't. So i we're going to jump into that in today as well.
Summer Camp Announcements
00:01:34
Speaker
um I did just want to touch on just a couple of housekeeping items before we get started into the pod today. We did finally release our um summer camp schedule for the upcoming summer here. So if you do happen to find yourself in the Edmonton area or if you are in the Edmonton area and you want to come train with us, we do have three different camps available. So here's what we got. um We are offering a U9-U11 beginner goalie camp for the one i think it's the weekend of August 8th 9th. So we are looking forward to that. So if you are a brand new goalie coming into the position, or maybe you played goalie for you know a couple of months or whatever, and you do fall within the U9, U11 category, this would be the camp for you. It's going to touch on, you know, the most basic of things.
00:02:28
Speaker
It's a two-day camp, really, so we're not we're not dyinging we're not deep diving into a lot of, like, the the heavy stuff. It's more so just, you know, the basics the basics of the position, the skating, the tracking, the head trajectory, all that stuff. You know, we're we're we're we're molding you into, you know, looking like a goalie, and then, you know, going from there. So that is one option that we are providing. So if you do fall within that category, definitely would recommend going into that. And then we have our week-long cam, which is the August 10th through fourteen
00:02:59
Speaker
This one is always a fun one. I always enjoy coming out to these. You you will get... So you will get two guaranteed ice sessions along with Classroom and... Oh, what's it? Dryland, thank you. um So yeah, so we do have kind of two different to two different age groups with that. So we would have like our U9, U11 group, U13 maybe mixed in there. And then from there be U15, U17, U18, all that fun stuff. So that would be... Kind of falling within that category. So if you do want to come and train with us on that. Again, like I said, two guaranteed ice times. Classroom and dry land training mixed in there as well. um I've been part of this. I've been part of the True North camp for, I guess this will be my third.
00:03:48
Speaker
This will be my third camp. Yeah. um So i'm always, always exciting, um you know, just getting to see the relationships, you know, between goalies and, you know, between coaches and goalies and such and, you know, getting to see a bunch of different goalies at bunch of different age levels. um So it's always it's always a fun it's always a fun one. I used to do a camp in Leduc a very long time ago with a different goalie company, so but it's the same dynamic really. So I always enjoy going to those.
00:04:16
Speaker
And then lastly, this is a very exciting one for us. We do offer and we're offering a ringette goalie camp. That'll be the August 21 through 23rd kind of a weekend there. So if you so this has been something that we've been kind of jumping on um fairly more frequently this year. We did bring on three ringette coaches this year, and I did actually get to try my hand in coaching ringette once and I know was not very good at it. um But um so we are um offering that and because there's not really a lot of development, if at all, for ring at goalies. So we are diving deep diving a little bit more into that as well. it has been something that I've been wanting to get into more, but so well obviously with all my other commitments and stuff, it's been it's been it's been hard to do that.
Coaching Indigenous Players
00:05:07
Speaker
So we do have all that available. So again, you guys can go check all this out. True north goaltending.com or if you can go to our, our, our social media pages, you can find all that information there as well. So all of those bookings are live. So if you are,
00:05:24
Speaker
interested in coming to work out with us, highly recommend doing so. And yeah, it's great time. Great coaches, you know, great, great development. We, everything's great about it essentially. So we are, ah we are looking forward to that. Alright, I want to jump into this here today. I want to start off with the kind of the open borders topic here for a second. I know Nathan's covered it last week, but I did just want to touch on um the, again, just the the out the outlaw junior league side of things. Because I do have...
00:05:58
Speaker
Quite a bit of experience with that. I did coach in what is now the defunct GMHL West League, which was an offshoot of the GMHL in Ontario.
00:06:11
Speaker
And so I was part of a couple of teams in that league, one of them being the High Prairie Red Wings and then the other one now being the defunct Enoch Tomahawks. I'm going to touch on more of my time with the Tomahawks in particular. um Again, I'm not going to get into like the the real nitty gritty part of it, but just i was I was part of that league, and so I know a lot of people have had their thoughts about it, and
00:06:40
Speaker
From my perspective, from my point of view on things, it seemed like we had a good program. You know, we had, you know, primarily indigenous players, which is never really a bad thing. um And so, but the development was still the same. We got ice times four to five days a week. think was actually four days a week. It would be an hour and a half-ish long ice slot, and we would basically do our thing. And so we I made sure that at least two out of the two out of the four days were were goalie development, or we sort we were able to get some goalie development in there. And you know we were able to ah we were able to do our thing, and we were able to ah you know win games and you know win playoff rounds and such. um
00:07:26
Speaker
I knew of and had heard of um just kind of some of the the negative stuff that was happening in there, but um didn't really choose to involve myself in that, didn't really choose to pry anything into it. um But I knew, but I do know of players and do know of coaches, you know, that, you know, got screwed over or were screwing over people. So, yeah.
00:07:51
Speaker
Again, just like Nathan was saying, and like it's all about fit, right? you know they There are different programs out there that... you know Some of them are good, some of them are not. So it's really a matter of, you know, doing your own research and stuff. And I'm not saying like going to Facebook and posting in the Facebook groups, although, again, good to get perspective on that, but never really a good idea just to go based off of that either. You know, you want to you want to make sure that you're doing that you are doing your own research, that you are asking the right questions, if any questions at all. um And you're just, you know, trying to make sure that what the organization is providing you is going to.
00:08:36
Speaker
benefit you and or your goalie um so we want to we you just that's just the biggest thing over anything and we had some coaches and we had some goalies you know that uh um you know at least my junior league where we started off with you know two goalies and then we ended up having like six at one point and even i was like this is this is stupid um and so eventually we ended up letting some of them go but um But yeah, i mean, the problem with leagues like that and organizations like that is because there is no overseeing body so they can kind of get away with a lot more, um however pleasant or not, I guess. So you just, like, again, you just, you want to make sure that, like, if you are going to commit to something like this, you need to understand the, the um kind of the pros and cons with it as well.
Business Orientation in Hockey
00:09:33
Speaker
And so just being, you know, making sure that, you know, you are, and are of the understanding that you came, maybe on, maybe and this may be unorthodox, or maybe this is something that, um you know,
00:09:47
Speaker
you know, you are aware of and, you know, you are, you are agreeing to this in, in, in some way, shape or form. So, um, yeah, I mean, that's, that's, that is just kind of my kind of two cents on it. I mean, like this, like Nathan was saying as well, like, like hockey has become so, i mean, I guess it was always political, but it it's become so business oriented and that, that is essentially what it is. Like we are in the business of, you know, profiting, um, you know, from the sport and, you know, But you want to make sure that, um you know, if you are going to be somebody that is going to try and make money and try to, um you know, build a business out of this, that you are divide that you are providing
00:10:30
Speaker
um competent quality Development at the same time. um You know you want it. That's that's just the biggest thing and you know you you can you can put together a super team and um um You know just have and you know you can win every game, you know, and you can win championships and such but For some players you know who want to move on and who want to prolong there their career, maybe a team like that isn't going to be the best either. And that's across all levels. um There was a post that I had seen, a video that I had seen, talking about Team Canada from the World Juniors. And...
00:11:21
Speaker
As much as I don't agree with this guy on a lot of things, I did agree with him on this where, you know, part of why Team Canada is struggling, um you know, to win championships is because there's a lot of individual players out there because more than likely some of these players, if not a lot of these players are... have, um you know, are part of, ah were part of teams that, you know, were part of like a super team or a super league or anything. So all they, all they know how to do is, is, is win championships, which is fine. But if you don't have the, um you know, the um hockey IQ to, you know,
00:12:01
Speaker
I don't want to say lose. That's not the one that's not the word that I'm looking for. but like if If you don't have the um the the ability to lose, you are actually going to be struggling a lot more to win. That really is is is what it is. It's not it's not exactly why how I want to quote that, but I think that you know that is something as well. So like if you are a part of a team that's you know blowing out other teams and such, hey, great,
00:12:30
Speaker
But you know you want to make sure that ah you know that you're not sacrificing development at the same time. Or even if you are part of those teams that you know that are just absolutely sucking wind and you know you're losing 13-2 13-1 or 4-20, whatever.
00:12:47
Speaker
you know you want to make sure that um you know, you're still, you're you're still trying to get something out of it at the same day too, you know, because ah as, as much as, you know, you want to try and not to be thinking about the future and such, um, you know, you, you kind of have to be paying attention to that at the same time, which is, um, which is, uh, which is always, it's, it's hard to do and it's hard not to do essentially.
Long-term Goals vs. Immediate Success
00:13:12
Speaker
Um, I had, I had a conversation with a goalie parent a while ago and, um,
00:13:19
Speaker
And one of the things that we were that we were discussing just kind of with her daughter was just the frustration in terms of... um where is this here? The frustration in terms of, ah um you know, like like what's like what's the point in, you know, kind of, you know, playing on these teams and...
00:13:43
Speaker
you know and that you're going you're that you're beating teams 13 0 17 0 um you know and traveling you know to to do that and and just to just to just to do that and that's when it's hard when the year is not challenging i said to her was like i was kind of joking with her i was like i was like either everyone has either you guys have a really strong team which they do or everyone just threw in the towel um Joking, obviously, but I think, you know, and we've said it on other pods before, um the best takeaways from this, whether you're on the team that's winning or whether you're on the team that's losing, is...
00:14:23
Speaker
you get You get to see different sides of it and you get to understand um ah but on both sides of it. But then there's always something to take away at the same time too. you know like Even with late like right now like with my AA team, we're kind of going through something which I think is really, really interesting. ah what we're what we're like we're We're winning games still, but we're also losing games, which you know is never which is never really a bad thing.
00:14:53
Speaker
But it's interesting too, because my guys, my goalies who were in the top 10 in goals against average and save percentage this year have kind of dropped off a little bit, which is never, which in my mind, isn't a bad thing. You know, I actually, I don't think we're even top 20 right now. It doesn't look like it, which isn't a bad thing.
00:15:15
Speaker
Again, not that stats really matter a whole lot to me, but we still have a good team. There's both still good goalies. We are just going through this thing right now where, hey, we're still staying the course.
00:15:29
Speaker
We're still doing things that we need to be doing, you know, but maybe we're not getting the results, which is totally fine. You know, we just, we still need to be making sure that, you know, we're doing everything that we need to be doing and going from there. That's, that's development, you know, and it's still part of the development cycle at the end of the day.
00:15:48
Speaker
Would I like them to be back in the top 20 in goals against average or save percentage? Absolutely. Do I really care though? No, I don't. Because in this league, everyone's going to make the playoffs and it, you know, you're, you're, you're still going to be, you are still going to be giving yourself a chance to, to, to do well in a chain and a, and a chance to, chance to succeed.
00:16:08
Speaker
Um, so it's, it's,
00:16:15
Speaker
I don't know. It's, it's just, it's one of those things where, um, you know, open borders or just even like whichever program that you decide to go to does have, is does have its ups and downs.
00:16:30
Speaker
And, um, you know, just, you need to understand again, always at the end of the day is what do you want to get? do What do you want to get out of this? What do you want to take away from all this? And, um, if If the goal is to win, hey, great.
00:16:45
Speaker
What's the goal after that? Because that's the immediate goal. What's the what's the goal after um you know the season? Do you want to make the jump from AAA to Junior A? Do you want to make the jump from you know Junior A to Major Juniors? Or gene Major Juniors to to Pro, Semi-Pro, whatever, right? that's That's the stuff that...
00:17:10
Speaker
I don't think a lot of families consider or a lot of players consider either. And maybe even some organizations as well. So um I'll kind of leave it with this as well. i was having a conversation with one of our coaches a couple weeks ago.
00:17:25
Speaker
And he was asking me, like, how are my goalies? Have they been considered for, you know, the AAA team? You know, have they gotten any practice time or have they gotten any playing time with them? And said, well, one of them got called up as, you know, as a backup, but...
00:17:40
Speaker
Not to my knowledge, any of them has been with, um you know, this AAA team. And he says, okay, well, it's proar it's about now is about the time to start looking elsewhere. I'm like, what do you mean?
00:17:51
Speaker
And he goes down then he goes, well, if if if they haven't been up with tripa a team at all this year, or if very, very minimal, the likelihood of going to that, should they choose to go to that, is is is unlikely. But if they still want to stay competitive, or if they still want to, um you know,
00:18:10
Speaker
advance at all to the next level whatever that may look like they need to start looking they should start looking elsewhere and so uh come we kind of ended the conversation there because it was at the Christmas party but something that I do want to kind of revisit at some point here before I start talking with my goal is about that but um um So that is just the yeah that is just the the interesting thing about all this.
Pros and Cons of Open Borders Programs
00:18:33
Speaker
And so, i mean yeah, I mean, again, like at at the end of the day, like i'm not I'm not worried about it a whole lot.
00:18:39
Speaker
um Obviously, is it something that we want to strive for and get back up to? Absolutely. But, you know, obviously there's five other guys that are on the ice first before you know we even talk about that. So... um So yeah. um Yeah, that's kind of all that I have on that and just kind of my two cents on that. If anything, I know it's just a lot of words strung together, but... um You know, it is it is what it is. And, you know, we we move on from
Goalie Techniques and Positioning
00:19:08
Speaker
there. OK, I wanted to talk about technicality today, um just kind of some of the technical stuff and just kind of where we should be and not necessarily where we should be at in our development. Just kind of talk about, um you know, the um just kind of some um skating positioning aspects and all that fun stuff. Really what I'm trying to say is that I hate when goalies are in the ah RVH. And we're still doing that. which indeed I'm going to have an old man yells at cloud moment here. But but like why on why on God's green earth are we still doing the ah RVH when the puck is in the far corner?
00:19:40
Speaker
What are we doing? like I understand habit. it I understand, um you know, I don't know, just the um just the instinct to do that and thinking that, you know, we hey we're we're covering our we're recovering our bases here. We're sealing off.
00:20:00
Speaker
But the puck's in the far corner. why are Why are we going out of our way to take ourselves out of position? Why are we going out of our way to um you know, just...
00:20:17
Speaker
So just why are we going out of our way to to to to get ourselves to to make ourselves getting scored on? That's the part that I don't understand. And so I'm going to try and label this as best as I can. You know, when the optimal time to drop into the RVH is.
00:20:35
Speaker
We talked him about it before, but we're going to do it again. um So, puck's in the far corner. We should be staying on our feet. okay And what we should be doing is scanning the ice, scanning what's going on around us to figure out where our threats are, if any.
00:20:51
Speaker
and kind of Kind of figure out who's where. Now, if your name is Scott Wedgwood, you were able to take it one step further. You were able to pinpoint what basically... basically brand of equipment that they're wearing or what stick handle or what stick uh what uh which which which way that they shoot on their stick um i'm not asking you to do that essentially what we're trying to do is that when that pucks in the far corner and whether the player's back is turned to us or not we still want to find an opportunity to take take take take a minute scan the ice figure out where our threats are if any
00:21:24
Speaker
Now, when that player, if he does, starts making his way towards the net, we want to kind of pay attention to but to the positioning of the net. To kind of position it where they are behind it behind the net.
00:21:35
Speaker
And so, a lot, again, at this point, again, you know, where players will where the player will be coming directly at us. Again, the instinct, understandably, would be to drop into the RVH.
00:21:45
Speaker
Sure. But, again, we want to be making sure that we are giving ourselves an opportunity to make the save at the same time. So, I would say, if that player is holding his or holding himself closer to the goal line, that's when we want to drop. Because more than likely, one of two things is going to happen. He's going to try and go for stuff, or he might try and go for a quick wraparound.
00:22:07
Speaker
If the player is kind of hanging around closer towards the boards... maybe maybe but i wouldn't drop down into the rvh immediately i would be starting on my post and as soon as i see him coming around the net and i'm looking at him behind the net and i see that he starts to drive in tight absolutely drop down to the rvh please do it but the biggest thing is we want to just be making sure and paying attention to kind of where the player is on the ice um
00:22:39
Speaker
And it's kind of where, and it's kind of where he is, um, positionally essentially. Um, we just, that's, we just, that's a big thing that we just, we want to be making sure that we are doing. Um, and you know, just, again, we just, we don't want to be doing anything that's taking ourselves out of the play. I mean, even sliding, like why, like goalies are still sliding across their crease and it doesn't surprise me, but it does.
00:23:06
Speaker
Um, um, And so just, we just, wouldn't we just want to start doing things, should be starting to do things, you know, that is, that is making it easier on ourselves and trying to take the most optimal route if we can.
00:23:24
Speaker
had this conversation with actually my double A guys the other day. I was like, you got to get over on your feet. It's like, oh, but I feel faster sliding. like, well, no, you're not. You know, like, you're that's all you're doing is just taking yourself out of the play, taking yourself out of position, and you are not giving yourself an opportunity to succeed. And so, I mean, hey, if you want to get there on your knees and pop back up, fine, but okay, then let's make sure that we're doing things properly. Let's make sure that we get the proper rotations that we're loading our legs properly and, you know, getting the push across and whatever, right? So, um...
00:23:58
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. That's that's that's that's kind of my my old man yells at Cloud my rant here for a minute. um Just definitely, i would definitely recommend to all goalies, take some time.
00:24:13
Speaker
um If you do have, um if your games are streamed or if your games are recorded, definitely go through that. I'm actually going go and through mine later today. Yeah.
00:24:25
Speaker
But the other thing as well is, you know, again, we say it before, you know, watch and NHL games, watch pro games, um or just watch other games in general.
00:24:39
Speaker
um And if you have the In Goals subscription, you can do the the pro reads as well, which I'm behind on. um But just we want be just we just we want to be making sure that we're still giving ourselves an opportunity to to to to make plans. And we want to be making sure that we're that we're giving ourselves an opportunity to succeed. And so just
00:25:02
Speaker
i i I don't know how else to say it. Like, that's that's that's really that's really what it is. That's really just what it boils down to at the end of the day. And so we just want to be making sure that we're we're doing everything that we can to, you know, have an opportunity to to succeed.
Future Content and Engagement
00:25:20
Speaker
um I definitely would like to start doing play breakdowns. I think that that would be something that that I would like to start doing um for the pod, or at least for the channel in general. I do actually have a ah video that I'm working on that I plan on getting out ascend whenever I'm able to, but I am i am looking forward to ah to doing that as well. so
00:25:43
Speaker
um yeah um Yeah, it's shorter episode today. um Didn't exactly come all that prepared, but just a couple of just a couple of items that I wanted to talk about today. And you know just this kind of go at it from there. um Hopefully Nathan and I will be back together next week. We've just been struggling.
00:26:04
Speaker
in terms of just finding time together. We do have a few guests lined up here as well that I want to get on. And I know that people are tired of listening to us talk at the same time. So we are, ah we are excited in, in doing that. um Yeah. So let's, let's just wrap it up and we'll kind of go at it from there. Again, like i said, at the start of the episode today, our goalie camps are live. We do offer a U11, U9 beginner camp.
00:26:30
Speaker
and then we have our week-long camp. And then we do also offer our ring at goalie camps as well. So we are looking forward to that. We do also have our remote coaching as well. Bookings for that aren't live yet on the website, but we'll make sure that we have the ah the Google form in the show notes for you guys. Sounds like all that's been going on pretty well, so we're we're really excited about that. um and And yeah, so um this has been another episode of the DIY Goalie Podcast presented by True North Goaltending. Make sure you guys follow us on your favorite social media platforms, whether that be Apple, iHeart. Nope, that's podcast. Make sure you follow us on your favorite social media platforms, whether than that be Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, TikTok, whatever. All of it is at True North Goaltending, except on Instagram because we like to be different. That one is YEG Goalie Coach.
00:27:21
Speaker
You can follow myself on Instagram at Monday GC. If you are listening on your favorite podcasting platforms, which is either Apple, iHeart, or Spotify, there we go. If you are a returning listener, thank you. make sure you hit that share button. If you are a brand new listener to our little program, make sure you hit that follow button and hit the share button because of more goalies that we are able to bring together, the better. If you are watching over on the YouTube side of things, make sure hit that like button and subscribe button, and as well as the share button helps the algorithm. And again, same deal. The more goalies that we are able to bring together, the better. I do believe that we are currently sitting at 287 subscribers right now on the YouTube side of things. So if you guys can help us get to 300, that would be amazing.
00:28:02
Speaker
um Yeah, I got nothing else. Hopefully Nathan and I are back together next week and we'll go at it from there. So until then, goalies, make some saves. We'll see you guys next one. Peace.