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From 0 to 500 Deals a Year: Inside a Solar Sales Machine - Riccardo Ricci
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Riccardo Ricci has been back several times on the podcast, but today he's bringing even more revolutionary ways to keep riding through the solar coaster. This episode touches on his experiences amidst volatility in solar, and conquering logistical, physical, and intellectual challenges that would've stopped other people from producing.
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Transcript
Introduction to Solarpreneur Podcast
00:00:03
Speaker
Welcome to the Solarpreneur Podcast, where we teach you to take your solar business to the next level. My name is Taylor Armstrong. I went from $50 in my bank account and struggling for groceries to closing 150 deals in the year and cracking the code on why sales reps fell.
00:00:19
Speaker
I teach you to avoid the mistakes I made and bring in the top solar dogs of the industry to let you in on the secrets of generating more leads, falling up like a pro and closing more deals.
Ricky's Solar Industry Journey and Experiences
00:00:31
Speaker
What is a solopreneur, you might ask? solopreneur is a new breed of solopro that is willing to do whatever it takes to achieve mastery, and you are about to become one. Something like that. 21, 22, right around that, yeah.
00:00:45
Speaker
Yeah. Yep. And, uh, yeah, just stayed in touch. Um, you know, working, working different teams now, but always ah stayed in touch here and there. And, um, yeah, a ton of stuff that I've learned from sales and, uh, you know, being a, uh, high, high volume producer from Ricky, he's always been one of the top guys in solar. So I got to ask Ricky, are you still, I know last time we talked,
00:01:09
Speaker
You were doing four or five, 600 deals a year.
Team Dynamics and Market Adaptation
00:01:12
Speaker
um i know you were on you're on a little little sabbatical right now, but you're still throwing down just as many deals when you're out there selling? but Yeah, yeah. i would say up until, you know like you as you know, I've been in Italy for the last you know few months. i was handling some family things. But ah but as as far as I was there, yeah, I think we're right about that pace.
00:01:31
Speaker
2025, we were more focused on team building. But I went through September with, I think... few to 300 deals, you know, some somewhere in that range. um So, yeah, as I'm in the field, you know, we're like to throw down. But obviously some some of the focus shifted recently. Looking forward to be back out there and and push again. You know, as you know, we go on this push pulls type of type of situation. So it's great.
00:01:53
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And we appreciate your Ricky's in ah Italy right now as we speak. So thanks for making it work with the time, time change and heard all the Italian birds in the background. So it's like you got cool spot out there. Oh yeah. I can shut off. Actually, do you hear him? I can shut off the window if you hear him and we can cut it.
00:02:11
Speaker
Yeah, no, no, it's not too bad. It probably adds a and nice little Italian vibe. Makes it relaxing. Great. Great. Okay. Yeah. If you hear him too much, i'll I'll cut him. I'll cut the window. I'll close it.
00:02:23
Speaker
yeah no it should be good though. um But yeah, man. So I'm excited to just catch up, see you what you've been up to now. I'm getting some sales stuff as always. Guys love hearing what you do to um throw down the massive amount of deals that yourself and a lot of people on your team do.
00:02:40
Speaker
But yeah, I guess first of all, just catching up. I think last podcast we did, it was 2023. um i know there's been some crazy stuff going on recently, but um you know just the highlights, anything changed with you and your team or any big differences since we last talked, 2023? Yeah, I'd say a lot is, you know, it's like a lifetime ago, 2023. And two years in solar, two and a half years is crazy, right? So i would say, i mean, from an industry perspective, a lot changed. As far as our core team and the core group, not much has changed, really. So i would say...
00:03:11
Speaker
Most of the core, i mean, at at the time we were going full on dealer, right? And then we we obviously made a few transitions, went internal at a few different places. and But the organization from an internal perspective has been about the same. Obviously we've grown, hit some challenges, setbacks, kept growing, scaled back, grew
Handling Industry Setbacks and Resilience
00:03:29
Speaker
again. so So some of the general cycle that that you run through, but as far as ah the the bones of the organization and the people involved in leadership, and it's it's not not a ton has changed.
00:03:40
Speaker
outside of the market conditions and a few different places and installers, of course. Yeah, for sure. Well, yeah, I guess that leads us to a good starting point. and I know there's a lot at the time this recording, a lot of crazy stuff going on. We all know, you know, companies declaring bankruptcy and it's nothing new for me and you because we've seen being in solar as long as we have. We've seen a lot of companies come and go.
00:04:04
Speaker
Um, you know, we've been through pay issues where installers have gone out of business, haven't gotten paid. um I know you were affected a lot more than, than have because some people it's like to the tune of millions of dollars.
00:04:18
Speaker
But, um, yeah, so I guess first off, how do you, um, any advice on how to go through some of these changes, installers disappearing, maybe guys that are feeling a little uncertainty, anything that you've learned or a lesson than you could pass on to people listening to the podcast? Yeah. Definitely a few. you know Unfortunately, not my first rodeo. i've I've been down that path a couple of times, I think, as as we all have in solar. And so obviously, it's it's painful and it's unfortunate for the industry in general. And and I think you know there's there's a variety of different different companies that are that are going through things. And I think it kind reflects what's happening in the market regardless, which is it's been a challenging time.
00:04:55
Speaker
So without you know commenting on that side of things, um I think from a rep perspective or from a leadership perspective, you know, what what I've always tried to do, and I think it's served me pretty well over time is always looking forward and understanding where the opportunity and and and the new wave comes along and kind of what what the new set of opportunities are and that get opened up in in situations like this. So, you know, I went through this a few different times, um scaled up big, you know, maybe maybe the installer we were using back in 21, then in 23, went out of business a few different times, um big pipeline holdbacks, obviously reps, uncertainty, losing reps, all of those things.
00:05:33
Speaker
the The best thing you can do, and in retrospect, right looking back, is every time some of those things happened, in the moment, you feel like it's the end of the world and everything feels really uncertain and you feel like it's horrible, which which it is, don't get me wrong. But looking back, you know all of those kind of periods of time were actually a very healthy period of
Consistency and Leadership in Sales Success
00:05:54
Speaker
rebuilding.
00:05:54
Speaker
that actually set set me up for for the next leg up in my career and my progression. And after those tumultuous times, I've usually always had big years on the back of that and really big level ups on the back end of that. So that would be my biggest advice is, you know, look forward. Don't look back. ah What happened, happened. There's not much you can do to change it, even though you'd like you could. Right. You you wish you could.
00:06:20
Speaker
But what what happened is what happened. And all you can control is what you do moving forward. So what you do is you you take what you learn, you take your lessons, you take your skill sets that you've developed and you apply them in the in the next set of opportunity moving forward, whether that's in the same place, same same organization, or you rebuild off off the back of that.
00:06:42
Speaker
um and But you you just look forward and and know that if you've done it once, you can do it again. And if you lose it once, it means you've built it so you can build it back twice and three times and four times. So the the only thing you can you can't afford to do is is stop, right? Or quit or jump out because that's when that's when the lesson doesn't pay its dividends, so to speak.
00:07:03
Speaker
Yeah, that's good. And I've always seen when stuff like this happens, and like new problems create new opportunities. And there's so many people that are looking for guys to follow.
00:07:14
Speaker
um There's new problems to solve and the guys that go in and don't quit. um Like you said, I think they see new opportunities and they have even bigger years than they did before.
00:07:24
Speaker
Just because, um yeah, if you can come out of that and, um you know, rebuild, there's ah so much money to me be made and a lot of great opportunities that can come on the other side of it.
00:07:37
Speaker
um And, yeah, so it's been cool to see rebuild after, um you know, a lot of... a lot of lot of issues i mean you look at like thomas edison what he had and what he had to fail 90 don't know he fails what over 900 times on making the light bulb and uh so it's like same thing with us we fell over and over and over but when we have when we hit that success um yeah a lot of great opportunities that i've seen come from from it Makes up for all of it. Right. And it's, you know, in a weird way, he keeps it it keeps it interesting and he keeps it fun. So not not to say that you should chase you know failure, but but it keeps you on your toes and it makes you sharper and it makes you better. The other question I had, you see you mentioned you've been in ah Italy for a little bit. I know dealing with some family stuff. Cool to see that you can step away like that, handle your business and ah your guys still produce. You've still got guys, you know, throwing down there.
00:08:30
Speaker
A lot of people in solar, it's like they leave and their teams, you know, they guys, guys almost quit because a lot of people, they almost need to be babysat sometimes to make sure they're working.
00:08:41
Speaker
and a lot of teams aren't as self-sufficient as that. So how did you, what would you say? How did you get to that level where you can, you know, step out of the the country for that long and, you know, your team keeps producing. You got solid guys like that. Any advice on that?
00:08:56
Speaker
Yeah, i mean, ah I don't know that I can take a lot of credit for that. Other than, you know, some of my leaders have have been great and and amazing, and I think they're stepping up and in a big way and and and doing really good things.
00:09:07
Speaker
But I think outside of that, obviously, it's a it's a compounding thing, right? That's that's built over time. Obviously, been at it for six years now, as far as building the organization with give or take the same people, right? Same leadership and same group for the most part. um So obviously that there's a level of trust that that compounds over time, i think.
00:09:27
Speaker
um And obviously some of those things get ingrained in in your group, in your core. So obviously it doesn't happen over time. but As you build over a long enough period of time and you compound your systems and you do things in in a certain way, it kind of permeates through the organization. it gets to a point where it kind of gets ingrained um to a point where you don't necessarily have to micromanage everything as you as you did because it becomes almost second nature right through through the fabric of the organization, which is really what you want.
00:09:57
Speaker
But
Team Structure and Sales Process
00:09:58
Speaker
ultimately, I think it's really a mix of great leadership. So having great leaders that can obviously replicate and in some some cases even improve upon what you've done and do certain things better than even you could do that. Right. And um and kind of keep the core values and the core the core philosophy of the organization, i think it's great. Of course, try to get as involved as possible on a remote basis, calls, trainings, be there as much as possible, but it's not the same. So I think it's something that comes with time and good systems and great leadership and great people for being know above everything else.
00:10:34
Speaker
Yeah, that's awesome. And yeah, that's what I was going to ask um as far as like what you do when you are out of the country for like multiple months. Are you still trying to hop on, you know, like weekly calls with them or is it pretty hands off? You just got let guys do their thing. But i don't know. Do you have like check ins that you do pretty regularly with your team when you're out of the country like this? Yeah. Yeah. And this is really the first time I've been out of the country on kind of an extended basis for the last you know six years. So it's kind of a learning experience for me as well and do it for the first time and, you know, figuring out what works and what doesn't work. um But I think in general, yeah, we try to be as involved, especially with leadership as as possible, even though they're doing a great job. Right. As far as the day to day, think at the rep level and at the at the field level, um they're handling pretty much everything outside of obviously me being able to hop on and do training or a Zoom call or kind of the general mindset things that we would be covering and obviously making sure that some of that is is there and instilled.
00:11:31
Speaker
But outside of the day to day, I would say that that's pretty much they're doing a great job handling that to try to be as involved in especially through some of the tumultuous times, like as far as keeping up with what's going on in the industry and giving up industry updates and kind of having some sort of the guidance in some of these situations as far as what to do with the group and.
00:11:49
Speaker
and what some of the what what some of the the thoughts are there. but But that's primarily been involved on the leadership side of things. And then the day to day has been doing doing good you know in my absence. I was looking forward to get back in the field myself here shortly. The next month or two, I'll be there and ready to push for summer as well.
00:12:07
Speaker
So so looking looking forward to to be back in in the field too and and push production directly on on the front line. Yeah, that's awesome, man. And so your team, i mean, you guys got some guys that are just throwing down and I've always been impressed about, um you know, how consistent your team is with working.
00:12:26
Speaker
Seems like, um you know, um all your your setters, your closers, they're all bought in. Um, you know, I noticed that everyone's there to work a lot of teams. It's like, you have so many guys that they're not getting out there.
00:12:38
Speaker
Um, they're low producers, but seems like everything I've seen about your team for the most part, everyone's, uh, producing at a much higher level rep, uh, rep, you know, like on like a rep to rep basis.
00:12:50
Speaker
So are you guys still doing, uh, is it like daily meetings? I know before you guys were having like correlations every day. Is it still that level where you're meeting basically every day, everyone's going out together? Yeah, that's that's happening. I think that's always been our core model. ah Now, with with some of the recent changes, you know some things have been done over the last month or so with blitzes and a couple of other things. But On a general level, yeah, the the core model is daily meetings. um There's a few different things we've implemented over time as far as the team building side of things as well. But um meetings daily, getting out in the field, I think some of those, I mean, consistency to me is one of the most, it's probably the most important thing. um in anything really, but specifically in sales and in business, um you have to have consistent inputs to monitor the outputs over time.
00:13:37
Speaker
You cannot put an inconsistent input and and expect consistent output, right? That's impossible. And so you have to have a very high level, consistent level of input that you can that you can track over time and let compounding do its work. to where you can compound into some of those sustained results. But but that comes with a lot of effort on a consistent basis every day. And that's that's part of what really gets gets you to where you need to be consistently as opposed to that, right? I see a lot of teams
00:14:07
Speaker
ah yeah meeting once a week, twice a week, um you know reps showing up when they want to, when they don't want to show up, they just don't. I mean, that that's you know obviously nobody to say what what anyone else should do, but you know you can't expect high level consistent results without putting in high level consistent effort on a daily basis. That's, I think, a non-starter. So if we start from daily consistency, that's a prerequirement. I wouldn't even say that will make you successful, but That's a prerequisite to to try to be successful, right? and if you can't do that, then nothing else you'll do after that will will work.
00:14:44
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, no, it's it's obviously working for you guys because it's so many teams. Yeah, so they wonder why they're struggling. And like you said, they're only meeting once a week. um Guys aren't checking in They're just letting their guys do whatever.
00:14:58
Speaker
and ah you you get very sporadic results like that. And a lot of people falling out of the industry, I think, just because... they're not being held accountable, they're not working themselves.
Scaling Sales and Maintaining Structure
00:15:09
Speaker
And um yeah, they're not showing up for themselves or their teams. So how do you, ah you know, getting guys to work? Is it just like everyone's you're hitting correlation, i'm going out in car groups together?
00:15:22
Speaker
um Like, what do you what do you do to keep guys working on a consistent basis? And then are you like cutting guys if they're not showing up for the team? Any advice on that? Yeah, I'd say so from a high level perspective, right? You yeah, we have regenerative car groups. um You have car group leaders within every every car group that that's accountable for the result of that specific car group.
00:15:44
Speaker
ah And so on ah on a logistical level, you, of course, have have a management structure that can actually support guys being out in the field. You always want to make sure that. your leaders and your managers that are actually um the ones driving production, they're in the field. right You cannot ever expect somebody to do something that you haven't done and mastered at a very high level and that you're not willing to do yourself. And so that's a pretty core principle.
00:16:09
Speaker
is if if you're going to ask your reps um ah or your leaders to to work every day and to work a certain amount and to have a certain level of intensity in the way in which they work, you cannot ask them that unless you are willing to double that intensity and double that work ethic and and and double their inputs and ensure that you've done that over a period of time. Right. So I would say that's the the prerequisite as far as motivation, if you want to call it that, or making sure that people are are actually tapping into their potential, is you need to be an example for as far as what that standard and that potential looks like. And you have to back it with facts. And ideally, you want to have a history and a track record of backing that with facts over time. not just on a sporadic level, but on a consistent level for months and years.
00:16:55
Speaker
um That's, I think, what really permeates through the fabric of an organization um where it becomes a standard because everyone else is following that. um and And you're really, as a leader...
00:17:08
Speaker
That's really your job, right? That's really your your ah purpose is to show what the highest level of execution is supposed to look like, even though you're obviously not perfect, but you want to try to be the best possible version of that so that people within the organization can actually aspire to that or can actually replicate that and show them what success actually looks like.
00:17:29
Speaker
So I think that's that's a starter. And then from a lot from a logistical perspective, of course, you want to make sure there's a management structure. You want to make sure there's accountability, there's meetings, there's requirements to show up on time, there's incentives to reward the right actions. There's obviously accountability on a car group level, all of these things. but I think the the logistical piece, I think, is very much secondary. you know There's 10,000 different ways in which you can put on an accountability system, right? And you can make sure that everyone's accountable. But all of that is irrelevant if there is no high-level leadership and intensity behind that and real standards and accountability at the highest level, right? And then then from there, everything trickles down. And
00:18:13
Speaker
And i've I've never been somebody that's incredibly strict as far as like rules, so to speak. We obviously have zip standards. We have commitments. I do everything by effort. Right. What I like is that to see effort.
00:18:26
Speaker
And we always say effort plus structures equal results. That's that's one of our mantras. Right. With Momentus. And that's something we've built our organization off of. And so I care about effort because we have structure, right? Effort plus structure is equal results. If you put in a lot of effort and you have a structure that is proven and that's proven over time, it can generate results. And obviously, i think at this point, and we've proven over many, many years that that our structure works.
00:18:52
Speaker
And so once you have that structure, then all you really need is is effort. And if you have effort you structure, you're always going to have results. The only variable is how long are those results going to take? Can you get them in a month, three months, six months, a year, or two years, right? That's the variable that trips people up is, okay, I'm putting an effort.
00:19:10
Speaker
I'm following the structure. I'm going to get the results. The only question is when. No one really knows. you can Some people get them in a month. Some people get them in a year. But that's really what trips you up. but But that's really how we score, I would say, kind of the the culture of the organization is, are you putting in effort?
00:19:26
Speaker
Because the structure is our responsibility, right? The structure is my responsibility, everyone else's responsibility to make sure that the structure is built ah for someone to succeed. What your responsibility is, is the effort to put into it I will not put in the effort for you. Right. I'm putting plenty of effort in myself.
00:19:42
Speaker
i I can't put effort in for other people, unfortunately. And so we need you to provide effort. We provide structure. You will have success. Right. And so that's how we look at it, meaning we're we're not going to be extremely picky, right? Even though we do have you know strict standards that we that we that we live by.
00:20:00
Speaker
It's not as much of a thing of like, hey, you need to be absolutely here every single day on doors by this time and that time. Of course, like we're all humans. There's a variability there. There's a level of of flexibility that needs to be there because we're we're all human beings and we all make mistakes.
00:20:15
Speaker
um But the effort level is what I care about. Right. If I see that you're genuinely putting in effort, ah genuinely trying, then that's what actually matters. Right. And we can work with that and the structure will do its work on you and you'll be successful. If you're not putting in effort, that that's where our cutoff is pretty hardcore. I will not tolerate that.
00:20:36
Speaker
um We will not put up with anything that that's not putting in effort. Right. So that's that's kind of the hard cutoff. Yeah, I like that. That's good. Sounds like you guys, you know, manage a lot more systems and, you know, you have like your structure in place and major effort after the, um yeah, on top of the structure.
00:20:56
Speaker
What about ah so a lot of people coming to solar and um i don't know if you guys even allow this on your teams, but some some people are like, oh, you know, what I just want to work solar like part time.
00:21:08
Speaker
um You know, they have the goal. um I just want to make, you know, 60, 70, 80 grand a year and work a part time. Do you guys even allow like part time reps on your team or people that maybe be for them, their effort is like what they want and what they expect.
00:21:22
Speaker
But for you, but for you and your team to be like, you know, if someone's only making 60, 70, 80k, that's probably like, you know, a very, very low producer on your team. Do you even allow people like that to have small goals and maybe we just want to treat this like a part time opportunity or something? ah not Not at the core level, even though it's happened right before. i would say, i mean, i I would look at it as, you know, we we've always had a very core group, which is really where, you know, 90% of the production comes from. 90% of your production is going to come from your core group that's 100% committed. At the edges of that, you right we've we have we've had other teams, we've had other groups that are you know some something along those lines of what you've described. I've never really seen it work. i mean we will
00:22:09
Speaker
if If it's not something that dilutes the the core culture and you're not in the main group and we can provide a structure and you're okay with going out and working two hours a week two hours ah two two days a week and make grand, like If that's your goal and that's what you want, you know, that's great.
00:22:25
Speaker
And we do have certain structure that can allow for that. mean, if I can give you training and we can have a separate system that can help you with that and you go out and do it kind of independently on your own, but we're there as a resource for you, we've done that. Right. And it can work.
00:22:39
Speaker
um But at a core level in the main organization, that's not allowed. Right. We're not going to allow that because that dilutes everybody's success. So. So basically, the the short answer is it's it's not allowed in the in the main organization. If you're going to be a part of that main organization and you actually want to see the results that have been achieved in the main organization, which is where all of the top producers come out of, people are made millions of dollars, that that's where all of that growth happens, then you know that you can't do that.
00:23:08
Speaker
if If you're trying to be doing something else on a part time level and, you know, just leverage some of the resources we can give you, we can try to do that. I've never seen that being massively successful. I'm not against it. Right. But you're not going to you're not going to break through and achieve your potential that way.
00:23:25
Speaker
Yeah. No, I agree 100%. I mean, every part-time rep I've seen, you know, some guys will have some small success for a while, but I've never seen someone stick in solar part-time and just, you know, make 50 grand. Usually it's just someone that's going to fizzle out anyways. um So I don't know, at least for us in our organization, if someone says they're going to do a part-time, we pretty much just send them the other way just because...
00:23:49
Speaker
Um, like you said, unless you can send them kind of off to the side and not really have to focus on them, it just gets exhausting to try to like beg people and try to bring them into your system if that's not what they want and that's not aligned with, with their goals and they're still trying to work this like a part-time thing.
00:24:07
Speaker
So, but yeah, I like that. and I like that. No, I agree. I mean, you can't, you know, your job really as a leader is, and and I think that's one of the best things you can do. And I think that's been what's made Momentous very successful over time is we've always been very pointed as far as who we are.
00:24:22
Speaker
And we're not for everybody, right? And so, hey, you come here if you want to maximize your potential, try to make as much money as you can, run an intense schedule, get really, really good at sales and master your skill set.
00:24:35
Speaker
and and you're massively hungry for success, then then this is your place, right? But by by having that core identity, you also self-screen a lot of people that are not aligned with that and don't want to do that, which is totally okay. And they should go other places that are built for for what they want. And your job as a leader is to have the people that are aligned with your vision, that want to do what you want,
00:25:00
Speaker
and help them get there. If
Progression and Skills Development in Sales Roles
00:25:02
Speaker
they don't want to get to where you want to get there's no point for you to lead them anywhere. You should let them go somewhere else where you know it's a better fit for them. So that's, I think, a pretty big, ah pretty big concept there.
00:25:14
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So let's talk about ah the your closers, all that. So you guys you have yourself and um you know some closers that are just absolutely throw down.
00:25:26
Speaker
do you have any sort of like progression path for your company, how people can go from setter to closer? um Because I know you got a big pool leads. Last time we talked, you guys you know were confirming appointments and everything.
00:25:38
Speaker
Anything change with that or what does that look like for new people? they have a progression progression path with ah within your team? Yeah, absolutely. progression mean the the The core bones of the structure are still the same. Nothing's changed. Of course, you you agree, you change and tweak certain things and improve upon certain things you know based on the market. But in general, you know the the progression path is the same.
00:25:59
Speaker
ah We pretty much exclusively promote closures from within. so for you to close with us at a high level, you have to have sat at a high level. Pretty much no exception. I've unfortunately broken that rule once or twice and it never works. So that's a reinforcement ah for me to know that we will not break that rule again. Right. But we you always you know the the path progression is fairly simple. Whether you come from another place where you've closed at a high level or not, you come in and you set at first through our system because we do run things a little bit differently.
00:26:32
Speaker
And we have our own sales process. We have our own structure and our own way of doing things. So we want you to learn that bottom up for you to actually achieve the highest level of results later. So sometimes it's counterintuitive. There are people that want to come in and close right away, understand that that's fine. It doesn't align with the way we run things. And they're totally welcome to go somewhere else, of course. But the reason why we do that is because we optimize for long term results. Right. And so it's if I know that our system works and I know that if you run that path of progression over one or two years, you're going to be in a place where you can make over a million dollars a year. um It is not um in your best interest. And it's a disservice to you for me to let you close after five months where you might make one hundred and fifty or two hundred grand a year. And you're never going to be able to break past that because you're not ready to scale that system.
00:27:17
Speaker
Right. And so we we have a pretty good pattern progression there where you you have to set. ah There's not really a time limit, I would say, to the setting, even though a minimum time limit is like three to four months at the very least. I haven't seen anybody really get to closing faster than that, but it can be done. It's really just there's no specific metric as far as, hey, you have to set this many. I mean, at a core,
00:27:42
Speaker
At a core level, somebody that's going to go close at a high level should have closed, should have set successfully 15 to 20 deals per month that close ah over a consistent period of time. Right. I've seen some other places do this metric of like, oh, you've got to hit this metric. If you do X amount of deals in one week, then you can close. If you do this many sets in one month, then you can close.
00:28:04
Speaker
I think that's somewhat more counterproductive because what what you care, especially at the closing level, is high-level consistency. Everybody can have a big week or a big month, can be a fluke, can be anything. If you can prove production over three, four, five months, then you're you're absolutely ready to get trained on the closing side of things. So what we care is consistent production into our setting system because we know that will translate into high-level closing numbers. And every time we've promoted somebody on the closing side and closing full-time,
00:28:34
Speaker
then that's basically guaranteed two, three hundred plus deals a year per closer. Right. That's that's the way we've historically done it. And that's essentially what all of our closers close. But it is a little bit of a longer road to get there. And in my opinion, it's worth it if you know you're going to get there. Right. But that's that's the way we do it. That's what we've seen be really successful is be really specific in the way in which we do things. And sometimes you have to have uncomfortable conversations when people think they're ready. And my opinion or the manager's opinion, they're not. And so those are open conversations that you have with them.
00:29:04
Speaker
But yeah, we we really make sure that that somebody is actually ready to take that step because it's a big level of responsibility. right You're entrusting them with the setters money, the setters commission. They're responsible for getting the setters paid, getting the deal to install. um It's a big responsibility that you you want to make sure somebody is ready for. And once they are ready for it, then they're in a great machine that basically will just keep providing them with high level numbers.
00:29:33
Speaker
Yeah. And just so people can hear that are listening. So the average closer, I mean, you got yourself, got few others. What's the average closer on your team? How many deals are they doing a year?
00:29:44
Speaker
um all your clothes I haven't calculated the average, right? ah But I would say that on the lower end, that i don't think and, you know, I don't have the exact numbers off of hand, but I think somebody that's been full time closing for us for one full year, like 12 months plus as a closer only, i think the bottom end is like 200 deals, right? I don't think we've had somebody go below that, maybe 180, 200. That's like the the low end of that. all the way up to, I mean, obviously my highest year was like 575, right? Where I've done that, I've had a ah few years going over 500, but you know somewhere within that, like two, I mean, and and I think we've had Cade hit almost 400 deals in a year, ah maybe 370, something in that range.
00:30:28
Speaker
So that that's that's the general range, right? 200 to is what I've done, to range really is is kind of what we're looking at.
00:30:40
Speaker
Yeah. So, yeah. It's just crazy when I talk to you and your team. i mean, you guys put down these ah video game numbers and usually, you know, you see like a massive company, like a Sunrun Legacy, and there'll be one, maybe two guys at like a massive company that would have over 200 deals.
00:31:00
Speaker
um But, you know, you guys run a small team and you've got multiple closers hitting that on a small team. So I know there's a lot of factors in this, but if you had to break it down a couple of things, what do you think is the main thing setting apart your closers? Like, how can you do this? How have you multiplied it? Where you look at these massive teams and it's like, there's one out of maybe a thousand reps that would hit those kind of numbers. So what's, what are, what are the biggest things that you guys are doing different?
00:31:25
Speaker
If you had to say. Yeah, of course, a lot of them. Right. ah So but if I had to distill it to a few, i would say, number one, the the system is built for that top to bottom, right? Everything like start to finish a to Z. that That's what the system is built for. It's optimized for high level lead setting, high level closing.
00:31:46
Speaker
the The lead setting and the closing needs to be streamlined. meaning the narrative um flows along the sales cycle. Like a lot of the times, you know, one of the most inefficient parts of the sales cycle is the setter handoff to the closer, right? You're the closer, you show up to el lead, you actually have no clue what the setter said for the most part. Half the time they don't know what happened, right? The customer doesn't know what's happening. So that's a very big friction point.
00:32:10
Speaker
And a lot of the times it's like they're almost two different deals, meaning the two systems don't talk to each other. So ensuring that you actually have a full sales cycle from from from the set, the beginning of the first conversation with the customer, all the way to the close and the install, it's one thing, right? It's one overarching thing.
00:32:29
Speaker
And every single step talks to each other, especially the handoff and especially the frame, right? So you want to have the frame ah start from the beginning of the set, Right. you You frame a certain way, which depends on the market the condition and the timing. We've had many different frames depending on which time in the market you are. But from the beginning of the set all the way to the the handoff of the set to the closer showing up to the closer closing and the deal, you want to maintain the absolute same frame all across. That way it's a uniform experience, right, which eliminates friction, which means you're going to have a lot more deals come through. That's number one. So make sure you're really
00:33:06
Speaker
really almost maniacal, really dialed on on that, on that the whole story, the whole sales cycle, the so-called customer journey from start to finish. Right. ah And then second thing, obviously, i think is the people within it. You need you know no no questions about it. You need a high level of talent. Right. Not everybody is is capable of that or not everybody, ah I should say, not is not capable, but not everybody's cut out for it or willing to do what it actually takes.
Efficient Lead Management and Sales Strategies
00:33:33
Speaker
Right. So for you to go close,
00:33:35
Speaker
two, three, 400 deals in a year. It doesn't matter how good of a closer you are. ah You have to be a good closer to get that many deals. Right. But aside from being a really good closer, you have to have an absurd work ethic. Right. And and you have to be unbelievably consistent on a daily basis to even just compound to those numbers. Right. And so you have to have a system that can develop a high level of closing skill, a high level of talent,
00:34:02
Speaker
which obviously you develop over time. ah But aside from that, a high level of work ethic and culture within the organization, because somebody that's closing 300, 400 deals a year, they're in field all day, every day for 10, 12 hour days, no matter what, Monday through Saturday, that's the whole year, right? That's how you get those numbers. So there's no other mathematical way to get those numbers outside of having high, high level close rates and a long, long, long time in field consistently daily.
00:34:30
Speaker
So those are all things that you want to optimize for. and the culture of the setting, I should say, and i that's I've always said behind that, I think that the setting group and the setters really have just as much, if not more, you know credit in in those numbers than the closers. They're ultimately the lifeblood the business. they're They're the ones that bring the opportunities to the table. They're the ones that are out there talking to clients at it's first.
00:34:56
Speaker
And so having a really, really good setting program is the most important thing, which actually take these guys and make them into good salespeople that are trained, that know what they're doing. um That's probably the biggest thing, right, is really have the the setting engine built in a way that that works, that's beneficial to to everybody where setters can make money, closers can make money.
00:35:19
Speaker
There's a path of progression where setr the setter can get to the closing side and actually have a really high high level of income. or have a really high level of income as a seller, right? So I think all of those things kind of have to be true ah for that to work. So, but those are, I think, the highlights.
00:35:35
Speaker
Yeah, that's really good. Yeah. And that's that I hadn't thought about that a while. Just like you said, creating the whole art, like the setters, you know, part of the same um process, saying the same things.
00:35:48
Speaker
Because, ah yeah, as you're saying that, I'm like, man, I can think of so many times on my own team where I've showed up and I've had to like totally almost reset the appointment because the setter said something completely different than and like what I'm trying to do.
00:36:02
Speaker
And then I got to create the frame and you know, you still close a lot of those deals. But um like you said, if you can have the setter be part of the same story that you're trying to convey and part of the same frame, then um yeah, that sounds like a dream. It's like, you know, your job as a closer just became that much easier too.
00:36:19
Speaker
if you don't have to like reset the appointment and go back to square one and be like, they're like, wait, is this solar or is this just a battery? I'm confused. And then I have to like, you know, explain to my, well, it's both solar and the battery. Um, things like that. So so we go through in California, but yeah, do you, do you have any like examples of how you guys do it?
00:36:39
Speaker
Like the story that the setter tells and the way you're, you're passing it off any, uh, don't know, word tracks or, or ways you guys are framing that, that the setter's saying. Yeah, I'd more so than work tracks, even I mean, there are a few, right? But more more so than that is the conceptually is is what's really important is the frame, right? Which will change based on regulation and based on the market and a couple of different things. But you always want to have a reason why the the setter shows up, right? at At a customer's house and they have the first approach.
00:37:08
Speaker
You always want to have a reason for that, right? Whether that's rate increase, whether that's a regulation change, whether that's grid hardening, whether that's a new... a new utility regulation, whatever, any of those things can be happening in any given market. You always want a reason as far as to why why you're actually there. And that reason is part of the frame that should carry over to the entire story, right? Which goes through the setting and then it gets to the closing. The closer should reiterate the same exact frame that was set as far as the reason why the setter showed up. And and then obviously carry that across through the entire um finish of the close. So the the the storytelling, right, is really what matters is you're telling a story as to what's happening and why you're actually there and what is the problem and why you're solving it.
00:37:56
Speaker
And that story, whatever that story is for your market, needs to be absolutely consistent with the way in which the closer will then talk and present. It needs to be a continuation of the story.
00:38:08
Speaker
Right. Think about that. You start problem solution. You set it. Problem solution keeps solving that same problem that we're talking about. And it's a continuation. So.
00:38:19
Speaker
I think that's that's the biggest thing. Information, I think, is very important, meaning what we do is we have setting sheets. um We make sure that every set ah is actually written down, meaning there's a certain amount of required information per set that we essentially have required. um So as you're talking to a client, you are required to get the bill. You got to ask certain questions. We have a sheet with certain questions that you need to ask. Write down the answers. Make sure the client has a copy. so they can actually keep track of that and they keep have that fresh in mind. And then the closer actually has a roadmap for exactly what happened, all the information that's available that backs into the story. So it's a one uniform process.
00:38:58
Speaker
Right. So I'd say those are kind of like the easiest things without you know knowing the market or anything else, depending on where people are. you You have a frame that's uniform across the board. You have very high level information requirements. Make sure the information is collected, the right questions are asked and the frame. right There needs to be very clear expectations set from the set to the close.
00:39:22
Speaker
right It needs to be intent based. ah There needs to be a very high level of expectation setting as far as this is what the closer, however you refer to the closer, there's many of her people call the closer many different ways.
00:39:35
Speaker
yeah However you refer to that. like Closer, yeah. Minus everything. This guy's coming play with the grass, yeah. yeah they get They get called anything but closers, right? So whatever you want to call them. i' I've heard it all. um But however that gets framed, yeah.
00:39:51
Speaker
And then you want to make sure that there's a very high level of ah of of um it's expectation setting right as far as what's actually going to happen. right Hey, we'll collect XYZ. He's going to come do XYZ, ask you XYZ questions if everything makes sense. He's going to help you get submitted and get started. If it doesn't make sense, then you guys just won't do anything. We'll cross it off our list and let you know it's not a good fit.
00:40:12
Speaker
Something along those lines and then the closer should iterate on that, maintain the same frame, set expectations again, which should be the same exact expectations that were set as the handoff happened, reiterate on it and maintain that, you know, that one line of the story that just kind of keeps carrying everything across because that's what builds trust and that's what builds credibility is the processes uniform, right? If the setter says one thing and then closer shows up and the first two minutes has something different,
00:40:42
Speaker
You lost frame, you lost credibility, you lost everything. you just introduced so much friction in that sales process. It's just not going to work. Right. And so all of that needs to kind of talk to each other.
00:40:54
Speaker
Yeah, that's really good. And then do you guys still do a lot of same days? You guys pretty big on same days still for your setters? Pat's not often just waiting for the closer to get there. Same days and next days, I would say. the The preferred type of lead is always the next day, I would say. That's always, since I started, that's always been the, you know, next day confirmed appointment is like the holy grail of appointments that you can get. um Or same days is probably a close second to that. Obviously, with same days, you have a little bit more buying pressure and you also see a little bit higher drop-off rate on the back end. Yeah. We actually try to encourage next days if possible. With next days, it's the opposite. You're going to see a little drop off on the front end, right? You're going to get a little less confirmations on the next day. But when you actually sit with a confirmed next day, um it's usually higher pull through and it's usually higher close rate, right? um so
00:41:46
Speaker
Between those two things, it's a good blend of same days and next days. I would say that's about all we do. We we we may we only set 48 hours out. Past 48 hours out, we don't even set it. It's a follow-up, right? But you're not going to set anything past two days. So same day, next day is pretty much everything.
00:42:03
Speaker
yeah Yeah. Okay. No, that's good. And then it's still confirmed. So you have all your setters confirm their appointments. And then do you guys only go to confirmed appointments or do you still send someone if it doesn't confirm or?
00:42:16
Speaker
No, all only confirmed no unless it's the same day. Same day is the same day. So usually we will actually double confirm the same day depending on how far out it was set. And if if you're sending the same day for an hour from now, then generally speaking, you don't have to confirm that. But If you're setting the same day for six hours from now, that that has to get confirmed. Next day always has to be confirmed, no matter what.
00:42:38
Speaker
um Always confirmation. It just makes everything so much more efficient. For you to execute at a high level and close at a high level and make sure that all the leads are actually getting hit.
00:42:49
Speaker
ah there needs to be a high level of transparency as far as the lead quality. right You cannot have a calendar that's booked out with a ton of leads that are waste of time that's going to be so inefficient to actually manage. You're going to miss the leads that were actually good because you went to the leads that that didn't confirm and no showed. So you you have to be very dialed as far as calendar management and only go into what's confirmed, have a high level of accountability with sellers, which is in their best interest. Right. And that's what we always say is you want to be high level and accountable on your leads because,
00:43:22
Speaker
then we only we will make all the leads pretty much almost every time. And sometimes, unfortunately, you do misleads, but very rarely that happens. Almost never. Most of the time, all the leads are hit as long as we have a very high level of accountability and all the leads that actually confirm are hit, which means all of those are actually going to get closed. Right. Because, you know, that if the deal confirmed and the closer sits inside the house, we pretty much close that literally every single time. Right. I would say 90 plus percent close rate.
00:43:49
Speaker
And so that's what keeps the whole system working well. is that if I know as a setter that I need to set a good lead and have it confirmed, and as long as I'm transparent about that and I only put on the calendar the leads are actually good, someone's going to make it. And if someone makes it and they sit inside, <unk>m going to get a deal pretty much.
00:44:07
Speaker
And that that's what keeps the whole system working pretty well. The second you dilute that with with shitty leads, then everything kind of breaks because you cannot manage that properly and deals get missed and you have all sorts of issues.
00:44:20
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, that's good. And it's different than a lot of teams, I would say. and Most teams that I talk to in solar these days, um you know, they do the different philosophy where like, oh, I'm not going to try to confirm it because gives the customer a chance to just cancel and say, forget about it.
00:44:36
Speaker
Where they're like, OK, if we can just show up and even if they're on the fence, then we can, you know, it's it's harder for the customer to say no face to face and still potentially get inside that deal. But I mean, that's why you guys are closing at such a high volume because obviously it's a much higher quality appointment if they're actually confirming and sitting down.
00:44:55
Speaker
But ah do you feel like that you are losing potential deals by doing it this way where maybe you could have just showed it up and gotten inside the home and, you know, convinced them to sit even when they were kind of like on the fence for confirming?
00:45:08
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, sure, you could. yeah definitely you can miss a few. Right. But long term, I will sell 10x more volume by doing that. And the whole team will sell 10x more volume doing that. So it's all about, you know, you if you're going to scale and you're going to run high volume, you have to have something that can scale. Right. You cannot be you cannot be.
00:45:28
Speaker
Tied up to oh I could have gotten like I will walk a lot of the times I will walk from deals sometimes that I know I can close right but I know I can close you but it's gonna take me three hours to close you and and you're gonna be very annoying and then on the back end of that you're gonna try to cancel twice and I'm gonna have to come back and save you two more times right and I know I can get that deal i will walk right because I'm not going to spend three hours with you and then another two days saving you because we have three other leads behind you, which I know will I will frame and close in 30 minutes or whatever.
00:46:02
Speaker
And if I close you, we're going to miss three more leads for other setters. And then maybe you'll probably cancel anyways. And so you you have to think about it in terms of scale and in terms of efficiency of the long term. Right. You cannot think about it in terms of I need a deal right now, because if you just make decisions off of that, then you're only optimizing for short term and it will never scale. You'll never see big numbers.
00:46:24
Speaker
And so, yeah, of course, I mean, we we probably didn't show up to deals that if we showed up, we would have just closed them. Right. But if you did that at scale all the time, How many deals would you actually lose because you're doing that? a lot, a lot more than you would get.
00:46:40
Speaker
And so you you have to think about it in terms of scale. And I know that if we run that system, that system will scale every single time. And I know that all of our closers, which are all highly talented, will only be spending their time with leads that are confirmed and good, which means they will close all of them, which means we will always produce at a high level. as opposed to we do not have a system and maybe they did send somebody out and they you know whipped it up and closed them, but that will not ever scale. right and so i cannot You can't do that if you're trying to build long-term volume.
00:47:12
Speaker
Yeah, no, that's that's great and such a and yeah cool way to think of scaling. Most people aren't thinking this way and they're wondering why they're getting lower results. And so it's, um yeah, it's obviously working great for you guys and much more solid appointments, closing at a higher level.
00:47:32
Speaker
And yeah, makes a ton of sense why why ah so many closers are doing that type of volume. And then do you guys also do like time windows for these appointments? I know that's been something that we've been experimenting with to, you know, hit more appointments. If we're really late, then we show up within like a one hour time window. Do you guys do time windows like that too? Or is it just the appointments confirmed at that time and you're showing up? We only do time windows. um I think, ah you know, I would challenge any solar team or any solar closer to run appointments on time on the dot. I think that's highly unlikely to happen and if you're doing scale. It's very unscalable. You know, going back to scale, ah we only do time windows pretty much exclusively. One to two hour windows, two hours preferred.
00:48:18
Speaker
If it can only be one hour, we will do a one hour window. ah but only windows. right And that goes back to scale. You have to be able to have a time window of time because you have to be able to have enough leads booked in that window of time. And you then need to be able to screen enough of those leads to account for cancellations, non-confirmations, all of that stuff. And you need to make sure that after non-confirm and after cancels and after all of that, the time slot is still booked.
00:48:47
Speaker
So that means if you're running at a high volume, you need three, four, five different six, depending how many closers you have, four, or five, six different leads booked in one time slot with a time window.
00:48:58
Speaker
And out of those leads, a couple will cancel, a couple won't confirm, and two will, you know, whatever, two will go to you when you show up and the other two you will go to and you will close. So you need to stack that those times, but you can only do that with a time window. If you are booking, you know, locked in appointments, you can only book one and you'll show up and they will ghost you and you got an hour and you've missed, you know, an hour of production.
00:49:21
Speaker
And so, yeah, you have to be efficient as far as how you how you do that, too. Yeah, no, I think that's one of the biggest secrets I've seen, especially for doing volume. So it's like if you have a ghosted appointment, no show, then you're still within your time hour. You can stack so many more appointments with time windows versus where, yeah, if you're trying to run appointments on the dot.
00:49:42
Speaker
You can probably schedule it what, maybe five, six appointments max for the day. If you're trying to schedule like a full day of appointments on the dot and then it's like the pop come fall through, then you only ran three appointments where if you do two hour timelines, you could stack probably like 12 appointments for the day.
00:49:59
Speaker
um Just one to the next. So, um yeah, much, much more easier to to be be effective with it. And so the other thing i was going to ask you about, Ricardo, so with cancellations, um you know, when you're doing a lower volume, it's easier to like run back to these people that try to cancel, save them.
00:50:21
Speaker
but Like you said, it's just especially when you're doing volume. um I doubt you guys would even have time to try to run back to all these customers, try to save them, do this whole back and forth thing. So do you guys have any system set up for customers that like, oh, you know what, we're having second thoughts or whatever. i don't know if do you send something, try to send someone back or what's like your system for deals that are trying to cancel? Yeah, I mean, of course. So I think, you know, all of our all of our closers pretty much at scale have some sort of deal assistant, right? Whether that's a personal assistant or whether that's some sort of executive assistant provided by an installer. Basically, if you're doing high volume, you cannot handle all your pipeline on your own. You need to have help.
00:50:59
Speaker
So I'd say that's a non-starter. You need somebody actually handling all of the organization side of things to where you can have a report every day where, you know, the three to five highest level issue accounts that you need to handle and then you can move on.
00:51:13
Speaker
All of the back end and all the work needs to be done by somebody else. And basically for me, the way I had it set up is I always had a personal assistant or a VA or someone handling the accounts. At one point I had two to three assistants actually running my pipeline because it was a pretty large pipeline. And so you need to you need to every single day have a report of basically the entire pipeline. This is you know this is what it is. This is where every deal is at.
00:51:37
Speaker
These are you know the the issues. These are the top three, five issues that you need to solve today. And then I get that every single day. So I look at it in the morning. I know where it stands. I've got an hour of that. I'm like, cool, these are my three issues. I need to solve these. And then I'm off to the races and I'm not looking at that until the next day.
00:51:53
Speaker
Right. And then you can tackle those three high level issues that you have, which might be cancellations or accounts stuck somewhere in the project or somewhere around there. And that's an efficient way to look at it. But you always want to make sure you're getting to somebody that wants to cancel and try to save it.
00:52:08
Speaker
Now, you know depending on how you frame, it's all about framing, right? It all goes back to storytelling and it all goes back to the beginning. That's what we said. It's a one uniform story, right? If somebody is trying to cancel,
00:52:18
Speaker
the best way to stop somebody from trying to cancel is to try to prevent the cancel. So have the story being really good and really tight and the expectations set really well. And the the the post-sale journey as far as touch points and communication and all of those things handled by an assistant or somebody else that prevents them from ever having that thought.
00:52:37
Speaker
Now, with that being said, when they do have that thought, you call them and you try to save it. But ah once they already reached that conclusion on their own, most often than not, you know it's hard, right? You'll save some, but most of the time actually going back to a customer that decide to cancel and try to save it,
00:52:56
Speaker
It's generally a waste your time, right? If somebody's already thought enough and then worked up the courage to call you and tell you to cancel or made up that decision in their mind and then told you to cancel, you can go back and change their mind. But at that point, the frame is off, right? The whole frame is off because now they made a decision. You go back to change their mind.
00:53:12
Speaker
That will very rarely work. Sometimes it will work if it's a genuine concern that you can actually solve. but most often than not, it's a waste of your time. ah Right. And even if you save them, they'll cancel again. Right. I think we've all had that experience. And so, so in general, I would say I wouldn't, you know, you just account for cancels. That's something that's part of the game. That's just how it is. You're always, you're running, you're running cold outbound is what you're doing. Right. We're, we're cold, cold calling, cold knocking, cold approaching, like straight up. You're selling people in one day, two days.
00:53:44
Speaker
You're always going to have drop off. There's, there's almost no version of the game in which you're running cold outbound at scale and you're not getting drop off. So that will always happen. You just got to accept it and have a good system to prevent it.
00:53:58
Speaker
When it does happen, you try to fix it, but you don't spend too much time on it because rarely works when you actually get that far in. You want to prevent it as much as you can. And once you get there, then you can save some.
00:54:09
Speaker
But I wouldn't waste any operating hours as far as selling, going back to saving customers. I can allocate early morning hours or late night hours to go back to save customers if I want to.
00:54:21
Speaker
But my core operating day will never respan saving a customer, right? yeah Yeah, I like that. Yeah. And you now that you're saying that, that's that's good. Just going back to how valuable your time is and scaling. um Yeah, there's so many times where I've seen where I've spent all this, you know, prime selling hours trying to go back for this one customer to save them.
00:54:43
Speaker
And like you said, you save a few of them, but it is extremely low percentage um when they're at that point, they've decided. And, you know, you throw them like, A bonus, hey, if you stay out, if we continue with this, we give you the next three months for free and you try to throw out all these things. But it's just like so hard to change their mind at that point when they were already made that conclusion. And especially if they're like analytical, crunched all their numbers and this and that and then trying to go back and change that. It's definitely an uphill battle.
00:55:15
Speaker
and But yeah, what about do you guys do anything if people are far in the process? Do you guys do anything with like cancellation fees where you try to send the customer an invoice if they're like, you know, ready for install and they try to cancel on you yeah at that point?
00:55:28
Speaker
I mean, there's depending on where it is. And i mean, that's happened in the past, of course, which is depending on it all depends on the installer and what's actually been done. i mean, generally speaking, if that can only be done really, if if it's really like install day, right? Like we used to get, you know, as a dealer specifically, or ah if if you get an install, if you get a cancel the day of installation, for example, or the pool the the crew gets pulled back from an install site, you'll get a charge back,
Handling Objections and Customer Commitment
00:55:57
Speaker
right? So in those situations or you know certain installers, if it cancels past s SOW or past a certain point, you'll get a chargeback. So those things are legitimate. and They can be done. I don't love doing that. That also doesn't work very much, rarely works.
00:56:11
Speaker
but But it can be a bargaining tool, right? Where you're like, hey, we're here. We rolled out the crew. ah it cost us X amount. We're going to invoice it to you by contract. But we don't really want to do that. What's really the underlying concern? You know, let's solve that.
00:56:27
Speaker
And usually, I mean, you're not going to save somebody just because of you charging them an invoice. Like that's not what's going to do it. What it's going to do is it's going to give you a little bit of a frame to where you can actually level level and have a decent conversation with them. And then they can actually give you their concern. And then you actually have a chance to solve it. Right. So I would say that that can work. I mean, we've we've seen that work.
00:56:48
Speaker
even though it's not ideal. But I mean, in those situations where there's an actual chargeback involved, then it can be done because there's a real cost involved as far as rolling out a crew and bringing them back or something along those lines. But again, that's always like post facts. Anything you do, the best way to handle an objection is what? To prevent the objection, right? The best way to handle a cancel is to and ah prevent the cancel.
00:57:12
Speaker
Once somebody gets down to that point, everything you do post fact, post objection, post cancellation, you're already on the wrong side of the frame. You're already flipped. And so your your percentage of success is already low.
00:57:26
Speaker
You can try it and you you know you pull some. But again, then you're always better off to control the frame on the front end. Yeah, that's so true. Yeah, well, it's a tough thing for a lot of solar reps still with the cancels. And um you know I'd say, especially in California, a lot of companies are like less than 40% of the deals making it the actual install.
00:57:48
Speaker
And it just can be exhausting for guys throwing these deals up and then seeing them fall through, especially for setters, I'd say um where they're counting on this money and then they have the cancels.
00:57:59
Speaker
And so, um you know, speaking of the systems and then um we can we can start wrapping up here, Ricky. But what are some what are some of the biggest things you guys do? You talked about preventing the cancellation before it happens. What are some of the most effective things you guys do to prevent these cancellations? Yeah.
00:58:16
Speaker
Yeah, I think obviously having um the way in which you set and then the way in which you close has a very high correlation with the amount of cancellations you actually get pre-installation, right? So there's different ways to sell, of course. and And I've always been a pretty big proponent through my whole career. ah I'm a pretty big advocate of question being selling ah question-based selling. Pain funneling.
00:58:42
Speaker
And so all of those things are is is you're asking actually you're asking a lot of questions and you're really getting to the pain point of the customer and you're pain funneling that and you're really making sure that there's a problem and there's an issue and that you are actually solving that problem. And there's a level of pain or there's a level of discomfort that you're solving.
00:59:01
Speaker
And you you iterate that really well in your sales process and you can carry out that story. Right. If you're doing that, your natural cancellation rate will be lower because you have created or identified the problem the customer has. You've created enough pain for them to act on it. You're handling a solution form them and then you're moving forward. That alone is a much lower cancellation rate. as opposed to you know what i like i say like bulldozing type of sales i've never done it i hate it i i see a lot of guys in the industry unfortunately do it uh i see a lot of the recordings on instagram and you know some are good some i cringe it is what it is but but you know from a lot of different closers so to speak but
00:59:42
Speaker
it's It's just you can close a customer, right? And you can talk somebody into doing something or you can kind of roll them and roll them and roll them roll them and get them to sign the dotted line just because they're exhausted of you and they want you to be gone. But they're going to cancel tomorrow or in two days or in three days. And you never spent enough time to actually create any pain, isolate any problems and and solve it.
01:00:03
Speaker
So that's not selling. That's just talking. You can exhaust somebody or kind of sweet talk somebody into signing. Right. ah but you're going to get a pretty heavy drop off off of that. Right. So I think that's number one is the way in which you sell is like the biggest thing. um And it's not just, hey, be transparent and tell them what's going on, all of these things, but but really just the actual methodology with which you sell.
01:00:24
Speaker
We try to be on purpose. I try to remove emotion from the equation as much as possible. you You want to use emotion to create pain if you need to and actually find the problem. But ultimately, the decision needs to be logical and it needs to be a no brainer. It cannot be an emotional decision.
01:00:42
Speaker
I see a lot of people, they sell on the relationship with the customer. They create a lot of trust. They create like a friendship with the customer, which is all great, right? That's not wrong. But but when the the reason for making a decision is emotional and you create trust and you create a lot of rapport and somebody makes an emotional decision, whether that's a good emotion or a bad emotion, whatever,
01:01:03
Speaker
that will always result in higher cancels, right? So if you're somebody that gets your customers highly pumped up, all high energy, it's a high energy sale. Or if you're somebody that gets them like super um hyped up about, you know, how high the bill is and how much pain they're feeling and you get them all of this type of emotion and they make a decision off of that emotion.
01:01:24
Speaker
The second you step away, that emotion is going to be gone within 24 hours. and The second the emotion wears off, you lose the client, right? gone. So you always want to manage the emotional temperature in a deal.
01:01:37
Speaker
And you're going to need emotion, obviously, to close at the end of the day, back and forth. But you need to manage that temperature. And when it actually gets time to close and wrap up, you need to take away the emotional temperature, make a logic, make a study to where basically the deal will stand the test of time.
01:01:53
Speaker
as opposed to just like this quick emotion. So that's number one. you You sell in a question based way. You have a legitimate sales process which isolate issues. It does not rely on emotion. It relies on logic ah and it will ultimately be a no brainer for them to sign up. So that's the biggest thing.
01:02:09
Speaker
Aside from that, You want to have a really good process as far as setting expectations right right before you leave the house. Tell them exactly what's going to happen A to z you put them You have a direct open line of communication with them. Put them in a group chat with your assistant. Put them in a group chat with yourself and whatever. With you, direct messaging, number, all of the lines of communication need to be open.
01:02:32
Speaker
You set you said the cadence as far as how often you'll check in with them, make sure that there's a sequence that follows up with them no matter what every week, tells them what's going on, all of that. um So those are the main two things, right? So by far the biggest is how you sell.
01:02:47
Speaker
And then after that, it's really just set the right expectation and then fulfill the expectation, keep a touch base open and keep open the lines of communication. That's really that's really what it is. Yeah, love that.
01:02:59
Speaker
Yeah. And it's cool to hear it's how you sell. I think a lot of guys think of it's, you know, all this stuff you do after the sell. Like you hear, ah we we send them like a gift after the sell. We communicate with them, all this stuff. But um I would say most people are just losing them in how they sell far more often than the stuff they're doing after the sell.
01:03:19
Speaker
100%. It's not even close. you know I would argue that some of the things you do post-sale actually hurt your frame instead of you know instead of helping you. and yeah i know we're we're not going deeply into specific sales techniques, right so but but that's the whole thing there. I would argue that you're better off to just have a good front-end process and then just let things run smoothly and not try to do anything grandiose to kind of earn their loyalty because that that will actually slip flip your frame.
01:03:46
Speaker
Yeah. If you sign a crap deal and then expect that delivering a gift basket the next day is going to save a crap deal. It's probably probably not. Well, yeah, right. it' like it's It's the opposite of the frame because your frame is a closer and I'm not going to go too deep into this because that's a whole other episode as far as you know closing techniques actually. But but um your frame as a closer is and genuinely with solar, it's actually so easy because solar actually solves such a big problem that it's... It's really easy to say if you actually frame it properly and you're a good closer.
01:04:17
Speaker
But your frame as a closer is you have a really big you have a problem which we've identified together. I will help you uncover the problem. We will diagnose it. I have a solution that could potentially solve your problem. Let me ask you enough questions to find out if my solution can actually solve your problem. We will determine that together. If we decide that we can solve that problem,
01:04:39
Speaker
cool, we'll move forward together and I will solve your issue. right So if that frame is proper, I am more valuable than the client, right? Most people get that completely wrong. It's like, oh, I want to sell you something.
01:04:51
Speaker
You are the client you have to tell me yes. And you know you're here, I'm here, and please tell me yes. right the The frame is completely flipped. It's never going to work. A proper closing frame is is this, right?
01:05:04
Speaker
I have a solution, right? I have a solution. You have a problem. I can solve up your problem. Let me ask you questions and see if we can do that, right?
01:05:14
Speaker
If that's the frame and then that's how you should close, um then why, after I solved your problem, would I then send you gifts, right? It doesn't make any sense, right? It's completely backwards, like closing psychology.
01:05:29
Speaker
And so it's like, you wanna make sure that that's balanced. And if I'm sending you a gift, I'm inherently subconsciously telling you that I want to keep you happy. And why would I want to keep you happy if I'm the one that's providing more value in their interaction?
01:05:44
Speaker
There is no sense. There's no sense. So what you're telling your customers is that they are the ones that have the most value to you. You care about the deal more than they care about the value they're receiving.
01:05:55
Speaker
That's an unbalanced deal. Never going to work. If. That's the opposite. I provide the most value. I care about the deal, but like not really. I get a lot of deals. That's fine. If you don't do it, someone else will. All of you, you have a lot of issues. I can solve that problem. I don't care. Right. That's the frame.
01:06:11
Speaker
And so you have a big problem. I can solve it. I'm providing the most value in that interaction, which is what it should be. Then I perhaps I don't need to keep you happy sending you gift basket. Right. It's just ru reverse.
01:06:23
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, especially like something big because, you know, I've seen i've seen ah some reps send out like pretty big gifts, like pairs of shoes to customers, things like that. yeah First of all, I'm like, man, if you're sending out a big gift, then I'm kind of thinking, is the customer thinking we're just making a bag on them, making a ton of money for us to send like... Well, that's the whole thing. It doesn't make sense, right? Like everything about it doesn't make sense. Like, why am I like I've seen it so many times where you know I'm in a deal and some other closer was there before and the customer's like, well, this other guy told me that he'll give me a thousand dollars if I sign up. I'm like, OK, why do you think he's willing to give you a thousand dollars?
01:07:03
Speaker
wow Why? like it makes the noise that you're just communicating all of the wrong messages at the same time and putting yourself in a bad position. So there's no winning that comes out of that. Right.
01:07:16
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we, we, I do send out some cards. I don't, for me, I feel like sending out a little thank you card, whatever saying, Hey, it was cool to meet you. Yeah. I feel like there is that kind of reciprocity for people like, Oh, they see like a card or something small. Then, um, I've seen that help in my opinion for like relationships and stuff, but. Yeah, absolutely. like that's That's different, right? like We send out you know thank you messages and whatever. like That's professional interaction, right? To where you're like, you're nice you're cordial, or you're going to treat your clients right. That's totally normal, right? When you see these big things, like baskets or shoes, or and try to use that as a bait for somebody not to cancel, ah's it's never going to work. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Urgency in the Energy Market
01:08:03
Speaker
Yeah. Well, that's good stuff, man. Thanks for ah going through the cancellation because definitely something I've struggled with. And I see a lot of reps have a hard time with dealing with these cancels.
01:08:14
Speaker
And so ah last thing, Ricardo, and then um i know you got lots other calls and everything, but just ah with, you know, at the time of this recording, there's no more federal tax credit. and We used to build a lot of urgency with that. So ah is there anything specific you guys are using to build urgency as part of your part of your frame in the close?
01:08:34
Speaker
No, I think many things. I mean, I think right now, you know, specifically for where where energy is at, you know, you have so many things. I mean, there's such an energy problem in in America, right? In this country, it's it's crazy. Like you have data centers, you have AI, you have, you know, literally electricity prices doubling left and right. There's such a narrative around energy that we frankly didn't have. We've never used the federal tax credit to build urgency.
01:08:59
Speaker
I mean, maybe way back in 2021 or 22 when we were doing loans, but for the last two to three years doing PPAs primarily, the federal tax credit didn't really apply. ah for the most part. So we haven't used that in the last two to three years. you usually, most of the urgency comes from utility, the utility situation, what's happening with utility spikes, specifically AI, specifically data centers, specifically, there's many things you can point out to as far as to what's happening in the energy markets.
01:09:29
Speaker
that ah that are actually seeing pretty large increases. And and obviously that's that's that's the main energy driver, the main urgency driver, in my opinion right now is if the the beauty about what's happening out there with the data centers and AI, it's so mainstream.
01:09:46
Speaker
Everybody is aware of it. Everyone knows that we are going after AI. Everyone knows that there's an energy problem. Everyone knows the data centers have an energy issue. Everyone knows that there's not enough energy out there.
01:09:57
Speaker
That wasn't the case like a year ago or two years ago. Right. You would have to sit there and explain to customers why we have an energy shortage and why the grid cannot support it and why this cannot work. blah, blah. Now, I think that's pretty mainstream.
01:10:11
Speaker
As of now, ah so you actually don't even have to really sell that, so to speak. I think you just have to position it in a way that we all know where this is headed. And obviously, there's a few programs that can facilitate getting in ahead of it. Right. And that's what really brings urgency before the problem gets gets too big, which is eventually going to happen.
01:10:30
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, that's good. Yeah. And I think ah for us, we've seen, you know, depends on the customer type for like an old Mexican grandma, grandpa. and They don't even know anything about AI. Well, that too. Yeah.
01:10:46
Speaker
That too. I mean, for a lot of a lot of the times less is more, right? like And you you know this, as you talk to customers, like what what really matters, as long as you know it, you know that there's urgency and you know what's happening, um customers don't necessarily need to be aware of everything that's happening as far as to why energy rates are going up or they don't need to be aware of all of these things. And sometimes it helps to explain them, but but
Engagement and Future Growth
01:11:09
Speaker
sometimes it doesn't. because there's just too much information so a lot of the times it's really just your frame and your presence as far as hey this is the problem energy is going up and this is why ah it's as simple as that right as long as you have the right frame to where they can trust you and and believe you that's really what it is and then you know why but it doesn't necessarily have to be fully explained every single time
01:11:32
Speaker
Yeah, 100%. Love that. Well, yeah, I know we didn't dive super deep in this specific sales stuff today, Ricky, but I think we went over quite a bit of that in our previous episodes. So I'll definitely link to our previous episodes. If you guys have not heard the other episodes with Ricardo, go check them out. i Such good content in there. So we'll link to that.
01:11:55
Speaker
And then ah guys aren't already following you, or which I don't know why they wouldn't. But ah best, I don't know if you want to drop your Instagram or best place to get in touch. People want to hit you up. Yeah, Instagram is the easiest. I'm pretty active on there. I don't post a lot, but I always respond that I'm on it quite a bit. I'll post here and there. um Ricardo Richie 7 is my Instagram. So my first name, last name, 7 is the Instagram. ah I'm pretty active there. So I can i can i respond to almost everyone as much as I can.
01:12:23
Speaker
Okay. Love it, man. And then ah any big goals? What's next for you guys? Any big goals you got or ah for things you're you're planning for this next year? I think really keeping executing same thing we've been doing right for the last six. I mean, the goal is always the same, which is to scale and grow and and provide people with the best opportunity and be the best versions of ourselves and achieve the maximum possible results that we can.
01:12:48
Speaker
um And so we've been fairly consistent with that. So that's really the goal is to keep iterating on that, keep growing, keep scaling, keep improving, um pivot on certain things, rebuild some of the things that are breaking as we speak. in the current market. So um yeah, that's really that's really that. Just keep consistency going and and keep keep going with that and keep the same direction we've kept for the last six years. That's served us pretty well.
01:13:13
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. well Well, brother, thank you so much for coming on for another podcast with us. Always a great time. And congrats on your success. And um yeah, excited to see you get back in the field.
01:13:24
Speaker
Dust those cobblubs off after your time in Italy, but I know i'm go you'll be back at it quick. Absolutely. Absolutely. I'm looking forward to it. It's always a pleasure to be on. So obviously enjoy it every time. it's always fun. And yeah, it it'll be a fun summer, right? It'll it'll be fun as we as we get to it. So looking forward to it. Yeah.
01:13:42
Speaker
Okay. Love it, man. Well, thanks again for coming on. We'll chat soon. Absolutely. Chat soon. Thank you. Bye-bye.
Promoting Solar Scout and Solciety
01:13:47
Speaker
So some of you already know that I run my own door-to-door sales team here in San Diego. And as we are gearing up for the summer, I realized if we do the same thing we always did, we're going to get the same results. But if I want to increase my deal flow, I need to do something different to get an advantage. Then we discovered an app called Solar Scout.
01:14:06
Speaker
But it's not a door-knocking app. It's a data platform that shows us who is likely to go solar in our market. It shows us who has previously applied for solar but later canceled the deal, who has moved in recently, and even how much electricity the homes are using in a given neighborhood.
01:14:22
Speaker
It's been working for a lot of teams across the country and now I'm on board too. I'm going to be one of the first to use SolarScout in San Diego so I decided to partner up. But I told them, hey, if I'm going to talk about SolarScout on my show, you need to give my listeners a great deal. And they did.
01:14:37
Speaker
So go to solarscout.app forward slash Taylor and book a demo with them and you'll get 10% off your first month when you sign up. That's solarscout.app forward slash Taylor.
01:14:49
Speaker
Okay, back to the show. Hey Solarpreneurs, quick question. What if you could surround yourself with the industry's top performing sales pros, marketers, and CEOs and learn from their experience and wisdom in less than 20 minutes a day.
01:15:03
Speaker
For the last three years, I've been placed in the fortunate position to interview dozens of elite level solar professionals and learn exactly what they do behind closed doors to build their solar careers to an all-star level. That's why I want to make a truly special announcement about the new learning community exclusively for solar professionals to learn, compete, and win with top performers in the industry. And it's called Solciety.
01:15:28
Speaker
This learning community was designed from the ground up to level the playing field and give Solar Pros access to proven mentors who want to give back to this community and help you or your team to be held accountable by the industry's brightest minds for, are you ready for it, less than $3.45
01:15:47
Speaker
Currently, SolCity is open, launched, and ready to be enrolled. So go to SolCity.co to learn more and join the learning experience now.
01:16:01
Speaker
This is exclusively for Solrepreneur listeners, so be sure to go to SolCity.co and join. We'll see you on the inside.
01:16:15
Speaker
Access to proven mentors who want to give back to this community and help you or your team to be held accountable by the industry's brightest minds for, are you ready for it, less than $3.45 day.
01:16:29
Speaker
Currently, SoulCity is open, launched, and ready to be enrolled. So go to SoulCity.co to learn more. and join the learning experience now.
01:16:43
Speaker
This is exclusively for solopreneur listeners, so be sure to go to solcity.co and join. We'll see you on the inside.