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How To Be An Expert Recruiter Without Taking Away From Selling - Clark Manwaring
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Today's episode will be a throwback to one of the people that I'd call the "founding fathers" of solar recruitment: Clark Manwaring. This episode from a few years back focuses on recruiting both in industry and word-of-mouth, detailing the origin of the recruiting systems that the majority of the industry uses today.
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Transcript
Introduction to Solarpreneur Podcast
00:00:03
Speaker
Welcome to the Solarpreneur Podcast, where we teach you to take your solar business to the next level. My name is Taylor Armstrong.
Taylor Armstrong's Sales Journey
00:00:10
Speaker
I went from $50 in my bank account and struggling for groceries to closing 150 deals in the year and cracking the code on why sales reps fail.
Podcast Goals and Solopreneur Concept
00:00:19
Speaker
I teach you avoid the mistakes I made and bring in the top solar dogs of the industry to let you in on the secrets of generating more leads, falling up like a pro, and closing more deals.
00:00:31
Speaker
What is a solopreneur you might ask? solopreneur is a new breed of solopro that is willing to do whatever it takes to achieve mastery and you are about to become one. Okay, what's going on We
Guest Introduction: Clark Manwaring
00:00:43
Speaker
are here. We got another exciting episode today and we have got someone that is an expert on recruiting that we have been talking up in the previous episodes. So we are welcoming today the one, the only Clark Manwaring. Thanks for coming on the show with us, Clark.
00:00:58
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having me, man. Yeah, it's going to be a good... Yeah, I mean, you probably get sick all the jokes about your name, but do you get like Clark Superman wearing? Is that like that what they called you in high school and stuff?
00:01:08
Speaker
Yes, sir. Dude, I wish they called me that, but I've gotten Clark Kent, super man wearing. You got, I was a diver in high school and college, so I got like man wearing the Speedo. You get the whole gambit, man. Okay.
00:01:21
Speaker
I'm sure. I'm sure. I'm glad you used to it. But all jokes aside, we're going to be jamming on some recruiting
Clark's Recruiting Background
00:01:27
Speaker
today. And this guy definitely knows his stuff when it comes to recruiting. And we're going hear about his background. But right now, he started Surge. It's a recruiting, um I guess, agency, right? Helping a lot of other companies, organizations with their recruiting. And then currently VP of Growth over at, ah what's the company? Sorry.
00:01:46
Speaker
It's at Bright. Not V3. Yeah. Shout out to Bright Solar, my boys over at Bright. Okay. Yep. I keep seeing you with the V3 hat, man. So I keep wanting to say he's working with me. Did some consulting with them. I i can't take it off head, man. They put some glue on this thing. It's comfy. You know, Tanner Huber over there.
00:02:03
Speaker
He came on the podcast a while back. I actually don't think I may have met him briefly, but not off the top of my head. But yeah, great guys. Great thing they got going over there. Well, so let's get into your background here, Clark. um You came and did a meeting with our company here pretty recently, a week or two ago.
00:02:20
Speaker
Yeah, we just the stuff you shared with us was mind blowing. And already we're seeing stuff that we're changing, we're implementing recruiting techniques, and just onboarding all types of stuff that you shared with us. And so before we get into the nitty gritty of all that, you want to give us just like your backgrounds and pretty crazy stat you shared with us? And I want to I want to hear behind this, but you you claimed or have recruited 45% of the entire industry. Is that true? Yes, sir. I don't know if I i can take credit for that me personally, but that would be either me or a recruiter that I have trained.
00:02:55
Speaker
im So anybody that that uses my same method that has been trained by me, where we take up 45% of the industry. Yes, sir. Okay. Okay. Well, that's insane and pretty astounding fact when you think about that. A lot of sole reps out there. So yeah, Clark, tell us how you got in the recruiting and how this kind of became your bread and butter and what you're doing now. What's your background in all this?
Clark's Career Path
00:03:17
Speaker
Yeah, I can do. um So yeah, I've been in sales for about nine and a half years. um I include my LDS mission as part of that. Yeah. That's that first stint in sales. I didn't have any experience before that, but went and went knocked doors out in Colombia for two years. Super awesome experience. Shout out to Colombia.
00:03:36
Speaker
Yeah, shout out to Colombia. los amo. is that it It was an awesome experience. Came back from my mission, went to BYU, did terrible things. I am an awful student. I learned that very quickly. Loved the time there. I actually worked at the Missionary Training Center. So a lot of that was teaching missionaries how to get good at going out into the field and just being effective missionaries, learning the Spanish language.
00:04:02
Speaker
and Then I was a director over the language program for a while. So creating a curriculum for missionaries to go out and be successful learning a different, like a foreign language. Sold suits for a while. um A large stint of my sales experience was spent actually in real estate. So wholesaled homes. I flipped a few homes, but wholesaling was kind of bre my bread and butter. So the first doors that I ever knocked ah was out in like West Valley City, Utah. Like magnet area. um mean And it's a rough knock, man. It's not like solar. You know, you're you're trying to bring the conversation to a place where you can tactfully tell the person your house sucks. It looks terrible. I want to buy it at half price. So that was my first time knocking doors did that for a long time. Let's see here, like four years or so. and From there, that's how I moved into Solar.
Building Blue Raven's Recruiting Department
00:04:54
Speaker
So um I got hired on to kind of be ah a part of their their virtual team over at Blue Raven Solar. They kind of had like the beginnings of a recruiting department. I tell people like, hey, I was recruiter number one.
00:05:07
Speaker
I wasn't. there was There was one other dude that was out there recruiting. a Shout out to Randy. Awesome dude. um So he kind of laid the foundation for what ah what the recruiting program ended up becoming.
00:05:20
Speaker
ah But very, very rudimentary. We were bringing in maybe like one or two reps per recruiter per week. it was It was not impressive by any means. Probably didn't merit the salaries that we were getting. So, we and we probably blew through a little bit of that corporate ah piggy bank there, but it turned into something really special. um So, I got the privilege of and being their top performing um recruiter and then kind of helping head up that department and teach. setter and closer recruiters how to get good at what they did so and forming a lot of those systems and processes helping write scripts um training people on how to interview and really sell a candidate on solar on going out and knocking doors full time and and it became huge it it just blew up not overnight by any means but
00:06:10
Speaker
It got to the point where by the time i left, we were recruiting about um right along the lines of like 600 to 800 people that were onboarded and actually going out and attending trainings out in the field ah per month. wow So it was it was blowing up. So we did multiple thousands of recruits out into the field. excellent starter program for people that don't have a lot of experience. But yeah, that's that's what it was. So did that up until the point where Blue Raven actually got
Transition to Bright Solar and Founding Surge
00:06:41
Speaker
acquired. So SunPower purchased Blue Raven. Then I left shortly thereafter.
00:06:46
Speaker
i helped start up Bright. So Bright didn't exist. is It was only an idea at the time, but I helped ah Braden Braithwaite, a longtime childhood friend of mine, Talon Tipped in, his partner helped them get that off the ground, built up a recruiting department for them.
00:07:01
Speaker
Got to the point where we were kind of overwhelming their managers. So we were sending like five to 10 new guys to their boot camps every single week. That gets pretty overwhelming. That's a lot of training to do. We're very of the opinion that a rising tide raises all ships.
00:07:16
Speaker
We want to elevate the entire industry. This podcast does exactly that. And so we we kind of came in with that same thinking and that's what gave birth to Surge, which is a third party recruiting platform. Can't say it's been the smoothest sailing. a lot of, uh,
00:07:30
Speaker
There's been a lot of changes in the recruiting landscape, um especially against door to door jobs. But it's been an awesome experience. I've gotten to work with a ton of solar roofing, pest control insurance companies all over the the nation. If it's 1099 commission based jobs, then that's our bread and butter. That's that's what we deal in. um That's what what we recruit really heavy for. So.
00:07:53
Speaker
That's how I came in contact with you through Voltaic, one of my consulting clients through Surge. So yeah, that's the full story, man. Okay. All right. All right. I love it. Well, so something I'm curious about, Blue Raven sounds like that's kind of where you got your start and started hitting heavy the recruiting game.
Evolution of Recruiting Processes
00:08:09
Speaker
Yeah. So all the stuff you talk about now, all the consulting you do...
00:08:14
Speaker
Do you think this is the stuff you directly learned from um your time at Blue Raven or has your process changed pretty drastically since then? It's changed super drastically. and So to to put it in perspective, um it takes an enormous department um in order to run what what Blue Raven does. um It takes a department of about 55 recruiters right now, give or take. So huge, huge recruiting department. It's got to be probably the biggest um in the U.S. as far as door to door recruiting goes. um If I were to go back to Blue Raven today, we could probably lay off about 53 out of those 55 people and run the exact same. but Yeah. So has the process changed at all? It is night and day. So, so different from, ah from the, the foundation that we started over at Blue Raven. Well, so how much of what you do is, cause you know, you talk about all these things you do with the onboarding, with getting multiple sources for
Experience and Challenges in Recruiting
00:09:10
Speaker
recruiting.
00:09:10
Speaker
but Was this just stuff you came up with yourself through like trial and error? Or was this, um, like, did you learn this from someone or how did you come up with all your systems and processes that you're now, you know, consulting people with? Yeah, some of it's learned like a lot of the sourcing I learned by working handin hand in hand with my first mentor in recruiting, which is ah Randy Singh. Randy comes from a door to door background as well. And he's he's worked with a lot giants. So worked with, I believe, Titan for a second, worked at Blue Raven, worked at Sales Rabbit. So he's got a good track record himself. So I learned ah a little bit about sourcing from him, but a lot of the rest was like, there were no SOPs for, for anything that we did and what I currently do, all the rest has been kind of just trial and error. At this point now, I've spent over 25,000 hours actually in recruiting conversations over the last, uh, yeah, I mean, even, even past my career with Blue Raven over the last nine and a half years. So Really, it's it's just actually doing the thing, right? Somebody asked for the secret sauce on the doors. It's probably the same answer. You just have to knock a thousand doors.
00:10:17
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. Well, yeah, and it's crazy because most of us as sales reps, at least speaking for myself, recruiting isn't something we're actively doing. It's like you put us out on doors. We know the objections, we know the processes, we can do that all day. But I mean, I just did a podcast a couple weeks ago, I think I told you about it, where I recorded myself trying to like recruit my server at a Cheesecake Factory.
00:10:40
Speaker
And like I had like knots in my stomach because i knew I'm like, oh, shoot, how do I like actually bring this up? What do I say? If he has this objection, how am I going to overcome it? like like For some reason, I was like nervous. So I'm like, man, I don't do this. I can go and put me in front of a door. That's fine. But like recruiting isn't something that I'm actually doing. Like if he's interested, what do I do from there? And it's just most people that I know, a lot of companies too, don't even have processors or s SOPs or systems around it. so that's what I think is so cool about what you're doing is you're just, you know, helping us in a skill that's not something we're, at least most of us probably aren't um actively, you know, comfortable in and not doing as much as we should be. But yeah, I mean, is that something you see with the companies you go in and consult? Is it like most of them you go in and they have very little processes and systems set up and you kind of have to just like do it from scratch? Or what do you what's your experience? we get whole coming And yeah, you're you're definitely not alone in that feeling. You know, the knots in your stomach. This isn't comfortable territory. um but honestly i think that voltaic really had ah a better foundation than most companies that i i've worked with i mean you guys already had ah a team of two recruiters that excuse me we're doing a little bit of volume yeah but yeah you really see the full gambit so we work with companies all the way from we've never even touched a door i work with ah a roofing client right now where two owners have never knocked the door
00:12:01
Speaker
Probably never will, but they want a door-to-door team and know nothing about what that looks like from a culture standpoint, recruiting, sales training, production, field operations. It's it's brand new to them. So we work with with companies on that end of the spectrum all the way up to really, really large recruiting operations. Like we work with another roofing company that already has 19 branches across the U.S. And we just help them bring in a little bit more
Importance of Partnerships and Recognizing Blind Spots
00:12:29
Speaker
sourcing volume.
00:12:30
Speaker
ah They have a massive recruiting operation already going on. So you see all all types really. Well, does it ever, are you ever like nervous because someone that hasn't knocked doors and they're asking you to like start it from scratch?
00:12:42
Speaker
For me, that would be, i mean, I know you're the pro, but for me, I'd be like, man, these guys know nothing. lo This is like almost almost a ton of work and not like babysit them constantly type thing. But do you ever like turn people down or is that like, ah I mean, are are you guys used to doing that? Just starting people from scratch that have no experience like that?
00:12:58
Speaker
Yeah, ah we we do turn a lot of people down. and If I if I feel like, you know, our morals, our ethics, our our work ethic don't jive, then I just know it's going to be a nightmare for both of us down the road. So so that's probably somebody we'd turn away. But does it give some nerves, you know, working with a company that has absolutely no experience? um Yes and no. Yes.
00:13:21
Speaker
um Yes, if I were the only one working on it. But I think that part of entrepreneurship is knowing that you have blind spots. Like I'm good I feel very, very confident in what I do in recruiting. But and I'm a good sales trainer, but I'm not a great sales trainer. Right. And that's where I have partners. i've I've got talent and and Braden and helping me out with stuff like that. So anywhere where I feel like there's a blind spot in in building a system up from the ground up, that's not recruiting related. and that's where i I really have great partnerships that I can turn to and make that happen. So thank goodness. Yeah, no nerves because I get to pass that all to to my partners. cool Well, so I want to make this super valuable because we have you know all types of people in slower list in this. We have just reps, companies, we got owners, we got managers. Not everyone listening to this is going to be an owner that's going to
00:14:09
Speaker
you know reach out. And i just speaking for like our reps, say it's an individual rep listening this, they're at their company, their company has no like recruiting processes set up. I don't know if you work with like individual reps.
00:14:20
Speaker
What are some things, say I'm a rep at a company, my company doesn't have that set up. like What are some things that I could put into place personally? or like what would you tell a rep that just like their company doesn't have any recruiting systems put in place and they want to start recruiting more? What do you tell these guys? You just say, go to a different company where they have... better systems in place or do you suggest they like start to set up some of this themselves be their own mini recruiting department or what do you tell a rep like that yeah absolutely i i would say just know what you want to accomplish right off the bat um so have an actual goal in place so if it's like yeah i want to recruit 500 people well hey that's a that's a full-time commitment it's going to take you off the doors it's probably not going to be as lucrative as actually being on the doors
00:15:02
Speaker
um So maybe it's not a realistic, it's not a realistic goal, but I would say that if you've got a realistic goal in mind, like let's say I want a team of 20 for this summer, then great. You have a benchmark that you need to work for. And then very much like, like being on the doors, it's a numbers game where it funnels down to that 20.
00:15:19
Speaker
So the first thing that we want to do in in that pipeline is we want to source,
Creative Lead Sourcing for Recruiting
00:15:23
Speaker
right? Where do we source leads from? And I would say anywhere where you can bring attention to what you do, is going to be a source. Can you put out ah you know a really wide net through Indeed? Yeah, absolutely. I would talk to your company before doing some plant something like that. Don't interfere with with their own corporate recruiting.
00:15:43
Speaker
But an idea for that might be something like reaching out to you know a local influencer ah you know through it through their DMs and saying, hey, if you can post for me about this job opportunity and bring me guys, I can make you a kickback. So we can work through an unknown network in that way and bringing in recruits that way. It could even be actually going out and talking to people out on the street. Like it sounds crazy that you'd knock not only for solar sales, but actual recruiting. But I've done it.
00:16:12
Speaker
You can actually knock doors to go find people to join your team. So if you are completely exhausted in your personal network, ah there are people out there that are dying for an opportunity like this. It doesn't take some Indeed ad to do it. It really just takes like, how do I get?
00:16:27
Speaker
access to a channel that draws attention to my offering to the value that I bring. And you can get super creative on that. There's a lot of ways to source. But that would be the that would be the the first way to start is really just identify like, where are my strong suits? Where can I find an audience really quick?
00:16:45
Speaker
And how can I deliver, you know, really poignant value about recruiting to that audience as quick as possible? Yeah, well, and with solar, um I think a reason why some people are hesitant to get into recruiting, because there's a lot of, you know, I have a lot of friends that have just that dealer set up. It's like two, three guys, they're just running with their dealers. And they're hesitant to recruit hard because it's like they can go spend time just knocking a few doors in.
Balancing Recruiting and Direct Sales
00:17:09
Speaker
um They can get a sell that week and make $10,000 on a single commission. And so sometimes their thinking is like, okay, what's what's the time? If I go spend time recruiting, it can maybe make me money like later down the road, but it's gonna be a lot of work for it. Or I can just go knock this week and make that quick 10 grand.
00:17:26
Speaker
From a times sp perspective, um I don't know, is there like a time if you're just like a say a one man dealer a rep, say you want to get to that 20 people on your team, what's like a realistic amount of time that you think is required to spend on recruiting and kind of setting up these systems? That's a great question. um It's going to depend on the sourcing that you're using, right? So if we're going through a job board, then that's easy. We can get 20 people probably in three days. Not hard to do, right? Like what is the quality standard on those 20 people? Probably not amazing if you're doing it in three days. But if we're talking about, let's say I'm down in San Diego with you, right? We go to SDSU and we're just knocking on dorm doors.
00:18:07
Speaker
Um, and we're offering a summer job or summer internship that that we set up through SDSU. Um, and we're just helping people. We're drawing attention to that and then collecting phone numbers. You could probably knock out 20 people with a consistent two to three hours of prospecting on a weekly basis for a month. That's cool. Well, and you mentioned an internship. i have seen some people set up like internships.
Targeting Ideal Recruits
00:18:31
Speaker
So tell me about that. Is that a hard to do? is that something you like help people do is set up these like internships with colleges? Yeah, so it's it's usually something where you have to go to the college first. So it's very front loaded effort wise. I would just say that the there's like drawbacks to it. And then there's going to be some pluses to it Plus might be the retention factor. So somebody that's in an internship is like, oh, there's an actual credit on the line. That's right. And that shows on my record that I missed out on half of a credit for doing this job. There is definitely like reason for them to stay even when the times get tough and they get their teeth kicked in on the doors. I would say also, though, that you really, you get the kind of behavior that that you tolerate. it you get You get the kind of behavior that you source for. um The type of candidate that you're going to get where you're trying to use an internship as the lure to bring in more recruits, it might not be the type of long-term recruit that you're looking for because recruiting, like you said, is a longer play.
00:19:28
Speaker
Like it requires that you are fully devoted to the industry, probably fully devoted to the company that you're with, um and And see like a future, you see some longevity. And then you want people that see that same vision and are in it for the long haul, just like you are. that's That's where there's actual return for you to start up recruiting. So I would say, yeah, and there are definitely some drawbacks to doing something like that. And you might not get the type of person that wants to be in this with you for you know a year round program, or maybe even come back for a second summer.
00:19:59
Speaker
So generally you'd say that's, you would you say that's maybe not like super high priority for companies doing like the internship thing? I would say the more transparency, the better.
00:20:09
Speaker
And you I would kind of identify what the ideal recruit looks like. to you um So if it's a recruit that really only is knocking one summer with you, that's probably no skin off your back. yeah And that's a great route to go for. if you're looking for a dedicated team that's going to be blitzing with you um either summers or year round, if we're talking about a college student, then maybe we we need to approach it a little bit differently. Right. We're not looking for somebody to do an internship so much as a job. We should approach it from that angle when, when you start with them. So you say, this is a job.
00:20:43
Speaker
This is the time requirement for the job. This is the effort requirements, what it pays. So very different approach than an internship, but also might target that ideal recruit avatar way closer to what you envisioned.
00:20:57
Speaker
Okay, gotcha. Well, in speaking of an ideal recruit avatar, I know that's something that you've talked to us about. And I'm guessing you talk about that with every company you console and work with. So can you walk us through it like, yeah, it was really powerful exercise you walked us through just identifying, hey, what exactly do we want in our recruits? What are we looking for? And we didn't like when you're talking to this, it took us a minute because like we weren't exactly sure. And probably a lot of people I think that's something I'm sure you see is that people don't know exactly what they're looking for. think you brought that us up brought that up to us too. So can you walk us through that? What's this exercise you go through with companies and why is it so important to identify this kind of avatar and ideal recruit you talk about? Yeah, um really, I think that it comes down to the same principles that we believe in when we're knocking doors or or closing appointments that you need to have a specific actionable goal that you're striving towards or else you're kind of putting an effort on a treadmill, right? You're putting in a lot of effort, but there's no actual traction. You're not moving forward. and The same is very true of recruiting as well, that we want to have a ah really tangible
00:22:07
Speaker
ah vision of what we want to accomplish. And so when we do that, the exercise that I'll usually bring my consulting clients through is exactly what you said, that ideal recruit avatar. and What that means is that you're thinking in your head, if I were to receive somebody that could replace me at, let's say, a manager, or regional manager level, right, where I can train them to be just as good as me, if not better, which is the goal of all this. Right. 21st law in the 21 irrefutable laws of leadership by John Maxwell is the law of legacy. We want to eventually bring the people that we lead to that level.
Quality over Quantity in Recruiting
00:22:44
Speaker
So we think to ourselves, OK, what is that type of person? What do they look like? Right. And we're not we're not talking about skin color. We're not talking about religion, gender, any of that. We're we're talking about what does that look like in practice? Right.
00:22:56
Speaker
What does that person do? How do they how do they talk? What types of things do they do without me even ask? And then we try to target for that type of person during our sourcing. So one of the biggest problems and the reason why I think that there's been such a lack of legitimacy in door to door recruiting for the last 20, 30, 40 years, if somebody says, yeah, I'll knock doors and they can speak moderately good English, boom, we hire them onto our team. We're like, this is a great recruit. When in all actuality, um that's ah that's a huge scarcity mindset, which is so funny from an industry that boasts, you know, abundance over scarcity that you hear people that are like, we'll Take anybody on your team.
00:23:38
Speaker
It's like that contradicts everything that you believe in in your sales process, right? So ah we believe in abundance. We on this podcast believe in abundance, right? So na that being said, by having a specific type of recruit, what you're doing is you're narrowing that playing field. There might be 100 people that say they'll knock doors, but only one of them is somebody that could replace you at the manager level. Um, and which would you prefer? do you want to spin your wheels with 99 recruits that don't give you the result that you want? Or would you prefer one recruit that just provides huge value and changes your org forever? For most people, it's going to be option number two. So the exercise that we ran through when last Friday at Voltaic was, um,
00:24:26
Speaker
just kind of drawing up on the board, like, what do we want in a recruit? What don't we want in a recruit? And just like knocking doors is not an acceptable answer, right? So we talked about things like, and we want to know what their track record looks like at other companies.
00:24:41
Speaker
We want to know what their time commitment is. We want to give them a quota. So like, hey, you're hitting 100, 200 doors per day, right? Are you going to be able to keep up with that?
00:24:52
Speaker
We're talking about running them through like, hey, if I give you some material, sorry, some material to practice, um like a door approach, are you going to be able to take criticism? Are you going to be able to to adapt when I give you that criticism and do it over again? Are you going to get frustrated are you to quit early It might be, tell me about it a failure that you had in a past job. What did that look like? How did they affect you? Right. What did you learn from that? How did you change as a human being?
00:25:18
Speaker
Um, so it's, it's way more three-dimensional than just, you know, we want somebody that, that has a ah pulse and and knows how to put their knuckles on a doorstep. Right. And the more specific, the better, um,
00:25:31
Speaker
But, you know, we talked about like this analogy that that you hear all the time in recruiting, which is throwing mud up against a wall and seeing what sticks. Can you imagine how much like i mean, hey, I don't think anybody wants that, but that's very much the approach of the industry. That was my approach even when I started at Blue Raven.
00:25:48
Speaker
ah You know how much damage that does to our industry? like how many doors have you knocked on Taylor where somebody has knocked on that door before you and just spewing a whole bunch of stuff that's totally not true about tax credits or yeah about the cost of solar or the ah ROI or you know, you you get worse and worse doors over time. So, um I think that really the approach is not throwing mud at a wall. Am I arguing that the, the raw product is mud? Not at all.
00:26:17
Speaker
These first recruits that, that, we source generally are not going to be a pure product. They're not going to be our ideal avatar. But if we put in enough filters, like we put in nine, 10 filters, then what you get is less quality well less quantity, but a way, way higher quality recruit at the end of that.
00:26:36
Speaker
Yeah. Well, I love that. And I think it's just a shift in thinking.
Commitment and Interview Strategies
00:26:40
Speaker
That's something you're talking about to us as well. it's just like so many of us are used to just like begging people to come try the opportunity.
00:26:47
Speaker
It's like we're trying to sell these people. And I think the comparison you gave is if someone went and interviewed with Apple or with like Google or something. You would never hear their recruiters being like, hey, what's it going to take for you to come work with us or whatever. It's like the other way around. And so a lot of times that's how I think us as sales reps are thinking about recruiting. It's like we're begging people, we're throwing out a hook and just trying to get people to buy it on it where it should be the opposite. and You should keep a high standard. And so that's why i think it was really powerful just going through that exercise.
00:27:19
Speaker
And I think for our listeners, it's something whether you are a company owner, a manager, or even just a rep that's trying to get some people on. just like I think it's a very powerful exercise to go through. Write down exactly what are you looking for in the recruit? How many hours?
00:27:31
Speaker
What do you want them to commit to? And questions. Because these are things, since you said that, I'm already changing the way i interview too. Because I was kind of interviewing. I mean, I knew that I shouldn't be like begging them to work with us. But like some questions I think are important to ask. Like, hey, can you commit to this amount of hours? Can you take the criticism, feedback, things like that that I didn't really think about before. Yeah.
00:27:53
Speaker
I love that. It really is yeah kind of a dance. It's a choreography, right? Where we're dancing between, yes, i I want you in my organization. But at the end of the day, I don't even know who kind of coined the phrase, but you've probably heard it.
00:28:08
Speaker
Whoever needs the interaction less wins. um And that's That's very true in recruiting as well. That person needs a job, so I can kind of interact any which way I want. I don't need to always be pulling with like, hey, this is how much money you're going to get. This is, you know, look at all these cool perks and stuff like that.
00:28:28
Speaker
I can pull away from that for a a good amount of time. fact, for a majority of the interview, to really make it like, why should we want you over the next person that I'm going to talk to?
00:28:40
Speaker
Because I talk to dozens and dozens, if not thousands of people in a year. So yeah, you're absolutely right. It's a shift away from that to favor something more like I'm interviewing with 20 people. Why you?
00:28:51
Speaker
ah Right. I can only bring on three. why Why are you one of those three? Yeah. I love that. And even just sales in general, I mean, I think that's a good mindset to have in your sales because people can sniff out the neediness, the sales, the commission breath, even as we're selling too. So I think it's a just, you know, in general, as we're out selling solar, it's important to have that mindset and be like, hey, we're helping dozens of people. and Not everyone qualifies. so Yeah, it it makes your job seem safe, right? if it If the end of my pitch, my recruiting pitch to them is, so do you want to do this? Right? Then what does that say to a recruit? It's like red flag. This is dangerous. This is a job that nobody wants. It's scary. Whereas if I say something like, I don't even know if I really think that you're a fit.
00:29:39
Speaker
right? We're doing what we do on the doors. we're We're making it, this is safe. This is something that multiple people want. and This is rigorous. We don't just take anybody. We need to see some improvement. We need to see something, a better version of you in order to fit our culture, right? So yeah you we might think that, you know, we're losing out on an opportunity to bring in a recruit, but in all actuality,
00:30:01
Speaker
what you're doing is preemptively retaining that person. You're giving them the expectation you know of of somebody who says, this is a safe job that I'm going to stay at for the years. Yeah, I
Recruiting Experienced Reps
00:30:12
Speaker
love that.
00:30:12
Speaker
yeah And something didn't get to ask you when you're at our office the other day, Clark, is um this is actually something I experienced just yesterday or the day before. But I was doing an interview with somebody and this person wasn't like the typical person.
00:30:26
Speaker
um you know Indeed person. He actually was working with a solar company before. and so his frame was like, Hey, I am checking out a few different companies. And he was trying to kind of flip it on me. Be like, Hey, why should i like What's different about you guys? Why should I work with you?
00:30:40
Speaker
and then all of a sudden, i'm like, Oh, shue Now I have to... like Now he's like putting me in his frame and I have to tell him. So I told him my experience and like um you know told him why I think we are a good company to work for. But then I then i tried to like flip it on him a little bit. But I'd be like, at the end of the day, it's not for everyone. I don't even know if you'd be a for sure fit for us.
00:31:01
Speaker
And it was kind of back and forth like that. But so for you, as you're coaching these companies up, what do you how do you recruit these people different? If it's someone in the industry that you're trying to recruit, bring over to your company...
00:31:12
Speaker
how can you do that and kind of make sure it's not just going to be like this entitled door to door rep that's worked with 10 companies they want to sign on bonus and like they want to be treated like they're the king of the castle whatever how do you treat these people and interview them different versus just like your brand new guy I love that question because these are actually where like, I'm not on autopilot. i don't have to sleep through an interview, which you know you'll get to a place where you pretty much can sleep through an interview and you can still get um somebody fairly decent into the door. and So I love that you asked that. I think that it really comes down to, and and this is the same in the sales process, right? Recruiting is sales. If you don't think of recruiting as sales, and there's a good chance you're missing out on good recruiting opportunities, opportunities right? Or you're not-
00:31:57
Speaker
performing the way that you should. um in sales, you know when i when I train teams, I'll ask lots of times, like what are going to be the biggest objections? right And they're like, oh, and I don't like the look of the panels. It's too expensive. When am I going see a return on investment on these things?
00:32:13
Speaker
All of those things are smoke that is connected to a fire. And the fire always comes down to one thing and that's value, right? But value is a hard thing for a lot of people to define. But I love the way that Alex Hormozzi defines it in his book, $100 Million dollar Offers. If you haven't read it, incredible reading, great book incredible listening even. Read by the author on Audible. He's a very engaging speaker. But just a refresher on that, he defines value and I would agree with him as you've got kind of this medium in between this math equation. And the top half of the equation is the dream outcome. What does this person want to achieve times the likelihood that they'll actually achieve it divided by this bottom section?
Crafting a Unique Value Proposition
00:32:55
Speaker
How much time does it take to achieve it and how much effort does it take to achieve it?
00:32:59
Speaker
So all four of those elements need to be there in order for value to be completely identified. Both sides need to agree on it for them to come to a close, an agreement. And so it's the same thing in recruiting. Problem that that we see, and I think that it's maybe not even the reps fault, maybe it's the company's fault that they've created these entitled reps, is when we think of a traditional recruiting meeting, like, hey, we're at Ruth's Chris dropping a ton of money and just kind of kissing ass, for lack of a better word. Of those four things, how many of those four things are actually talked about?
00:33:31
Speaker
Chances are very, very good. It's only that top left portion. It's only the dream outcome. This is how much money you can make with us. There's nothing about like, what's the likelihood of actually getting there, which is huge. We don't talk about how much more quickly you could do that with us than another company.
00:33:49
Speaker
We don't talk about the effort. So for example, let's talk about, let's talk about Voltaic for a second. That's the company that that you're working for. What is the unique value proposition for Voltaic? I'll tell you what, there's really nothing unique about the pay structure.
00:34:03
Speaker
i work with I work with companies all over the country. Red lines are about the same pretty much everywhere you go. Nothing changes unless it's in a very nominal way, right? Can you earn just as much money and in solar with Voltaic as you can with another company? Maybe not. And that has nothing to do with the the money there. That has nothing to do with the actual red line itself that gets you to that place. It may have more to do with those other three factors. And that's where we can start to really craft up an original value proposition that's different from these other companies. So, Let's talk about likelihood of achieving it. If I tell somebody you're going to make 300K this year working with one of two solar companies, right? And one of them's got this ultra, ultra low red line, super high commissions on every deal. Company number two has a slightly higher red line, but recruits a team for you where you have 25 people underneath you.
00:34:59
Speaker
Doesn't matter, right? The red line ceases to exist in that case, right? So what's the likelihood of them actually hitting that number? That's where we have to do some critical thinking. Is it the recruiting that gets it gets me there?
00:35:10
Speaker
Is it that I have access to world-class leader and training platforms? Maybe in the case of Bright, I'll throw out a line for Bright. We've got Jens Bunnell is a member of our C-suite team.
00:35:21
Speaker
So he offers as much as you want performance psychiatry ah Zoom meetings with you, right? That's an original value process, right? yeah um We move into time, right? So you guys are your own installer. That's a value proposition above all these dealers in LA. We're going to get you to install quicker than you would with another company. you've got the amount of effort like you know it's it's going to take this long to achieve this ah because you're going to have to learn these things by trial and error voltaic's already figured it out this is what is unique about our path of progression this is how quickly you get promoted these are the trainings that help you get there so it ceases to be this 2d conversation that is only about the money and becomes the money might be there at every company. We're just going to help you get there with less effort. And the likelihood of actually getting there is actually possible. Whereas there's a 2% chance you hit it at company X, right? So we've steered the conversation completely away from where's my bonus. It's like the bonus is that you are a part of an organization that nails 10 out of 10 on each of those portions of the value equation. Yeah.
00:36:30
Speaker
That's a nugget. Love that, Thier. Yeah. And yeah, I think part of the issue with solar is we all hear the red lines. Some people get so caught up in these red lines. What's the most I can make per deal? But like you said, if you can get away from that thinking and that equation is awesome, just like break it down to the other aspects that a lot of people
Culture Fit vs. Sign-On Bonuses
00:36:49
Speaker
don't think about.
00:36:49
Speaker
I can see that there's way more value in that. And so as you're if you were in my shoes interviewing someone with experience like that. So you take them through all these different, um you know, kind of value propositions, build up the reasons why we're different.
00:37:03
Speaker
Do you kind of like turn the tables on them? Or what's what's like your line? Are you like, okay, because how do you make them want it instead of feeling like you're having to sell them on it and convince them that we're the best?
00:37:14
Speaker
Do you bring them in for like, because I know you talk about your whole like funnel while you're funneling down the ideal recruits. So is it the same funnel you put people through with their experience like that? Or is there any difference?
00:37:25
Speaker
Oh, absolutely. Yeah, it's the exact same funnel. So um it it might start in the same way that an objection would happen during a close, right? Where we're agreeing right off the bat with the prospect. So you could say, yeah, you know what? I agree. Like, I'll tell you what, you're going to find a higher red line than my company 50 times. And in fact, it's it's not going to be incredible. It's going to be a pretty nominal difference. You know, our organization might not be the best fit for you. In fact, solar might not even be the best fit for you.
00:37:54
Speaker
If somebody says, you know, pest is best, solar is going to be best. ah Oftentimes it's like, I don't argue against that. Like yeah if you think that the likelihood of hitting your dream outcome is higher in pest, then pest probably is best for you Right. And it's, it's the exact same conversation um when we're talking to somebody who's experienced in solar, it's like my organization might not be best for you, especially if you're asking for some sort of sign on bonus right off the bat. Our culture is that we earn it. This is an example of that.
00:38:23
Speaker
This is how you would fit into the culture. And if you don't, then the conversation probably isn't worth having right now. I think that at the end of the day, we could probably take it to exactly what we just talked about. So let's let's say we're in that conversation and they say, you know, I'm fielding offers from multiple companies. I would say two things. I would say, okay, well, first off, we also are vetting out multiple experienced candidates. We want top tier talent on our team. Why you over the other five experienced people that I'm meeting with this week, right? That might be an approach. Right. Approach number two might be something like, well, what's the unique value, maybe not value, but unique value that you see in your second favorite company that you've met with this week, right?
00:39:04
Speaker
Assuming i'm I'm your first, too what's the unique value that you see in your second favorite offer? And they'll talk about that. That's where you can make it a teaching moment, right? Nothing sells a salesperson better than a good story.
00:39:16
Speaker
um And so we can we can bring that story back to exactly that. Hey, I want to teach you something about unique value propositions. Having worked with multiple companies, this what you're experiencing with that other company is a dime a dozen in our industry. This is a unique value proposition that my company offers that allows somebody with your skillset to earn double what somebody without that training platform or that unique value prop would, you know, that they they don't have with that other offer.
00:39:45
Speaker
So I would say I would take it to one of those two roads, make it a teaching moment, turn it back and i'm using some sort of pullback like, hey, I'm also meeting with multiple experienced candidates. We have two closer roles available or two manager roles available.
00:40:00
Speaker
What's going to make you a top tier candidate for me, not the other way around? Yeah. And I think it goes back to to just the abundance mindset, because I think there's been times where I've been so afraid to not recruit the rep that, you know, you start throwing stuff at them, you start trying to convince them.
00:40:16
Speaker
And I think um at the end of the day, they're probably going to respect that you have your the type of person that you're looking for. I think of, ah you know, like Ricardo Richie, we talked about he was I used to work with he's running his own dealer, they're super strict on who they bring in And they've got multiple setters making, you know, 200 plus grand, they've got closers making over a million.
00:40:38
Speaker
And they just have like a super tight knit team, they turn down tons of people, people are coming to them to work with them. And so I think it's like, if you can have that abundance mindset, look for the people you're trying to bring in That's like, you probably don't want a lot of those guys that are begging for sign on bonuses and some other companies going to take them that's desperate. And then who knows, maybe they're going to like be terrible for that company. And it wasn't, wasn't good either way. So I was, was gonna say, I don't think, and I feel like I've recruited some top tier talent. My organization has recruited top tier talent. um Speaking of like Bright, right? right
00:41:12
Speaker
Amazing, amazing talent working on our Setter team. We've got Brandon Forrester um on our team leading our Setter training efforts. I'll tell you what, if anybody had more of a reason to ask for a sign-on bonus, it'd be this dude, right? Burnt at multiple solar companies in the past. Missing out on a ton of money, has every reason to ask for a sign-on bonus because of his work ethic and his his unique value prop to us.
00:41:38
Speaker
Didn't ask for a cent. yeah Just got to work and started ripping deals. You know, he's he's earning more than we could have ever offered in in any sort of sign-on bonus. I will give just as ah ah a cautionary tale here, and having worked with people that do ask for a sign-on bonus, i don't think I've ever seen one that ever actually pans out. There's got to be at least one out there, but I've just never seen it.
00:42:02
Speaker
And I've been involved in those conversations. I think that anybody asking for front loaded value really hasn't hasn't captured the types of ah core values of many of these companies that I work with is that you do work to earn, you know, your share, I guess.
00:42:18
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. One, it's like I just had. John Soriano, who is, you know, one of the like regional VPs or whatever of it, a legacy. And he's like, well, if you're such a successful rep, shouldn't you have money? Like, why do you need a sign on bonus? If you're like that good, you should deserve it. So I'm like, hu that's a good point.
00:42:34
Speaker
Yeah. Why do you need a sign on bonus? So yeah, I agree. But anyway, well just to wrap... kind of Start wrapping up here, Clark. um The last thing I wanted to do touch on a little bit before we say goodbye is just... I know a lot of people get these recruiting systems going. They lose reps. um Guys stick for like a week or two and then they fall off. I know just we didn't talk a ton about your whole funnel where you're being strict with the people you bring on. And I know that's definitely going to help companies.
00:43:01
Speaker
But what do you think are the main reasons why people can't retain reps? Is you think it's just more like being strict with the people you put put them through the funnel? Or like for you, what's the main things you see why these people can't retain reps in all the companies you
Retaining and Firing Strategies
00:43:16
Speaker
work with?
00:43:16
Speaker
That is an excellent question. and I would probably say that it it comes down to less you know people fizzling out. I think that when when they when we ask them, what does retention mean to you? And they're like, well, we want less people fizzling out.
00:43:32
Speaker
I think the problem is using the word fizzling out. That really should not exist on any type of sales team. What I mean by that is that usually on teams that I work with, we go through this three-step process where we source more candidates. We bring in more recruits than anybody in the world, right? That's step one. Step two is that we're firing quickly. Right. So we're getting rid of people that we see immediately are not following standards, don't fit into the culture of our team. And then we promote even quicker than we fire.
00:44:03
Speaker
And that one's hard to do. Right. Especially if there's no guideline for what promotes a rep. But I think that what ultimately makes for fizzling out reps is, number one, a manager that doesn't know how to fire. And maybe they don't have guidelines for it. We're not really taught how to fire people on a team and in door-to-door solar. So it's going to come down to number two, not only having ah a manager that knows how to fire efficiently, but it comes down to the company actually having guidelines like, hey, these are quotas and minimum standards and a skeleton outlined day by day of what a recruit should be experiencing and doing for their first 60 days.
00:44:39
Speaker
And if we see that there's some gaps, that's when you can start firing, right? Hold them against something that they have had a clear expectation from the beginning against that they should be completing at at penalty of losing their job. And then I would say number three,
00:44:55
Speaker
is that when we keep around people that shouldn't be on the team, it's a detriment not only to that person, they'll end up fizzling out, it's going to be a detriment to the entire team. So if I've got somebody who does not take the opportunity seriously on my team,
00:45:10
Speaker
who is just bumming around, super negative attitude, you know, does not hit quotas and things like that, but is still kept around on my team. And I am a top performer on that team.
00:45:22
Speaker
That makes me feel so, so crummy and undervalued that I'm sharing the same airspace with somebody that really does not give a damn about what is important to me, right? Yeah. It's going to make me fizzle out just as well. It's going to be like, oh I'm going to find ah a place that fits more with me where there's more me's on the team or people that I can grow from. They don't even have to be me. I hope they're even higher skilled than me.
00:45:45
Speaker
And so when we keep around low tier talent or detriments to the team. you're hurting more than just that person by keeping them there. um And also you're you're feeding into that scarcity mindset by not firing people that shouldn't be on your team.
00:46:00
Speaker
So I'd say retention at the end of the day might have less to do with keeping reps and keeping every single person And has more to do with getting rid of people that don't fit the culture to allow for new growth to to happen on your team.
00:46:16
Speaker
Okay, that's awesome. Well, and yeah, speaking of firing, and then we'll wrap up after this. But um so that's something that I struggle with, because I'm not sure I struggle with the nice guy syndrome where I'm just like too nice and want to give people always the benefit of the doubt and just keep them on the team. So for guys like me, like what's, how do you fire people? Like, and how do you like know? And because you know, if people have a bad attitude, if they're not hitting numbers, that's one thing, but maybe they're hitting low numbers and they have a bad attitude and you're like, all right, and we just can't keep them on the team, but it's kind of tougher to justify. How do you like, what's the conversation we have, what you have with these guys to actually fire them?
00:46:53
Speaker
It's a two part conversation. The first is front loaded. The second one is five seconds long. That first front loaded conversation is on the day of their orientation. The first thing that we go over is these are the minimum standards. I love that minimum standards. This is the floor, not the ceiling level, but the floor to stay on my sales team.
00:47:14
Speaker
Right. Ideally, it's locked into that document that I was talking about earlier, where it's like, hey, here's a skeleton outline day by day, play by play. of what you should be doing in order to keep your job.
00:47:26
Speaker
right This is the the very minimum that I need you to be doing. If they know that from moment one, then it's not going to be a surprise when that five second conversation happens where you pull them aside, you take a look at that sheet together and say, boom, boom, boom, these three things weren't done.
00:47:43
Speaker
It seems like your interest, passion, um and in overall commitment to this don't fit in with the, you know, the ultra fired up and teammates that are on this team. I don't want to hurt them.
00:47:55
Speaker
I certainly don't want to hurt you. Good luck in your next career move. And that's the conversation. Okay. And like over the phone, in person, either way. In person, if possible, over the phone, second choice. Okay.
00:48:07
Speaker
Okay. Gotcha. Okay. Yeah. yeah i need to get better at doing that because they're tough conversations, man. And it's not easy, but some of us got to overcome that nice guy syndrome and just do it for the sake of the team.
00:48:18
Speaker
Cause yeah, I mean, gotta give a no more Mr. Nice guy, a second read over and then just pump yourself out and or pump yourself up and and take them out of the team. I know. Yep. It's one of my favorite books. A lot of, lot of things to apply. Yeah. So cool.
Working with Clark and Future Podcast Plans
00:48:35
Speaker
um Well, Clark, it's been awesome having you on. And just to wrap up here, if guys want to connect more with you or potentially like work with you for their teams, and do you work with people individually or more just like teams and companies?
00:48:47
Speaker
Yeah, we work with across the across the board as far as surge goes surge right now is completely book full so we are not taking on any new clients but if you'd like to work with me personally and then that is a conversation that i'm willing to have it would be on the bright side of things so you'd be working with me at bright um you can hit me at clark underscore sales recruiter on instagram Cool. Well, it's been awesome having you on Clark. And even if you don't want to work with Clark right now, which you'd be crazy not to, but either way, hit him up and give him a shout out for coming on the podcast today. We're going to be releasing this soon. And so yeah, tag it, like it, share it. and We look forward to hearing more about your recruiting skills and probably have to do a follow-up. So because we just started working with it, Clark. So imagine six months from now when you've got us like, you know, office of a hundred down here in San Diego, then we're really going have stuff to talk about. So hopeful looking forward to that. not a hundred. Hopefully, hopefully 10 just studs, right? No mud in the wall, but yeah, i appreciate you having me on. It was a pleasure, man.
00:49:49
Speaker
Yeah, okay. I appreciate it. Okay, thanks again. So some of you already know that I run my own door-to-door sales team here in San Diego. And as we are gearing up for the summer, I realized if we do the same thing we always did, we're going to get the same results. But if I want to increase my deal flow, I need to do something different to get an advantage.
00:50:08
Speaker
Then we discovered an app called Solar Scout. But it's not a door knocking app. It's a data platform that shows us who is likely to go solar in our market. It shows us who has previously applied for solar but later canceled the deal, who has moved in recently, and even how much electricity the homes are using in a given neighborhood.
00:50:26
Speaker
It's been working for a lot of teams across the country and now I'm on board too. I'm going to be one of the first to use SolarScout in San Diego so I decided to partner up. But I told them, hey, I'm going to talk about SolarScout on my show, you need to give my listeners a great deal. And they did.
00:50:41
Speaker
So go to solarscout.app forward slash Taylor and book a demo with them and you'll get 10% off your first month when you sign up. That's solarscout.app forward slash Taylor.
00:50:54
Speaker
Okay. back What's up, solopreneurs? Hope you enjoyed the episode. Before you run out and start selling more solar yourself, wanted to let you know about an exciting new cheat sheet we created it specifically for you in mind.
00:51:09
Speaker
One of the top questions I get asked on Instagram, on Facebook, by our listeners is, Taylor, where should I start? What episodes should I listen to in the podcast? You got too many podcasts, man, because now we have over 200 episodes.
00:51:23
Speaker
So what we've done, we created the top 10 most downloaded, most listened to, and i would say widely accepted, most useful podcasts that we've done here on Solopreneur.
00:51:36
Speaker
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00:51:59
Speaker
We will have that in the show notes. Go download it right now. And especially if you have not listened to him go listen to them and you can re-listen to them. That's going to show you how. So go download it and we'll see you on the other side.