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Season Six: A Long Time Coming: Part One, Anna
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In today’s episode, we talk about a major case update out of Pennsylvania.
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Transcript
Introduction and Case Updates
00:00:00
Speaker
The content you're about to hear may be graphic in nature. Listener discretion is advised.
00:00:25
Speaker
This is True Crime
00:00:58
Speaker
I pulled two cases that have sort of updates.
Anna Macy Juska's Disappearance
00:01:03
Speaker
We didn't cover these before, but like they had caught my interest. And so i kind of kept up with them a little bit.
00:01:09
Speaker
ah One of them I'd say it's more recent. um Another one is not, and it comes up some time ago. But I thought I would talk about those two cases and like the updates today in case people are just like looking for new cases to dive into.
00:01:28
Speaker
One of these is going to have a trial coming up. And the other one, there's several places you can go to get more information. the The update is, I don't want to like ruin it too much, but the update is related to the trial situation.
00:01:45
Speaker
So the first one, it's out of Charleston Township, Pennsylvania. There's an arrest that's been made. And this is the case of a 43-year-old Anna Macy Juska.
00:01:59
Speaker
Now, according to friends and family and the police, ah there's a police report filed in this case back April 12, 2017, which it's really weird for me to say this.
00:02:12
Speaker
That's eight years ago now. It seems almost impossible. It does. From what we've seen recently in this case, investigators think that she had been killed sometime between March 29th and April 12th. They're leaning towards March 29th, March 30th.
00:02:30
Speaker
And they do not believe that she's a missing person. But I'm going to stress that, like, as of right now, us recording this... We have not seen body of this case.
00:02:43
Speaker
So according to a news conference coming out of Chester County up there, they are making an arrest in this case. So...
00:02:55
Speaker
The way this goes down is once detectives get the missing persons report, they start ah looking at it. And they, of course, take a look at like devices means 2017. They may not be as up to date as now, but people's habits.
00:03:14
Speaker
That's firmly in the digital age, wouldn't you say? Oh, yeah. Yeah, definitely. So they were able to determine, the investigators that worked this case, that on March 29th,
00:03:29
Speaker
Anna's life sort of stopped. Like all of the things that should have been there weren't there anymore. She's 43 years old when this happens. So in my opinion, 43 year olds, they're going to have Facebook and Instagram. They're going to have regular contact with people through phone calls and text messages.
00:03:49
Speaker
Especially if that's their pattern of
Role of Digital Footprints in Investigations
00:03:51
Speaker
behavior, right? Right. that's That's the key to it is whatever they were doing from forever ago up through March 28th should match what they do March 29th, March 30th. Even if they have a change in lifestyle, there's going to be traces of them.
00:04:07
Speaker
Right, and you know what's interesting is um that's just long enough ago that i'm not I can't really place it in time and space whether it was a apparent that that was being used.
00:04:19
Speaker
Right. As far as, you know, it used to be no body, no crime, and now it's like when a person has disappeared and their normal pattern of behavior a lot of it having to do with technology youth and social media youth has changed. There's a lot of inferences that can be drawn.
00:04:42
Speaker
Yeah, there is. And i mean, ultimately... The telematics of a person's life are becoming a huge like central point for a lot of criminal investigations and kind of therefore trials, not always just you know murder trials, so to speak, but like other parts of people's lives are getting caught up in these ah Google fence warrants.
00:05:10
Speaker
and You keep a lot on your devices that you don't even realize you have going on on your devices. um But your search history is becoming a huge deal. Where your phone goes or doesn't go, where your car goes or doesn't go. Some of the things I've seen in car telematics in the last few years have blown my mind. it like actually bothers me that my car tracks as much as it does. Great. I also think that there's a huge gap in the information that an expert can clean off of the information versus what a jury understands.
00:05:43
Speaker
Right, exactly. And um I think that gap is widening rather than narrowing, and that's like fascinating to me. You need people who are trained better to explain it, I think.
00:05:55
Speaker
Yeah, I think that'll write itself over time as experts um are sort of younger, if that makes sense. Like the people that are... Late 20s now and 10 years will be very good at presenting things and have enough experience that they know how this works.
00:06:12
Speaker
But I do think there's this sort of glut of experts that are currently appearing in court and and have an impressive resume that like some of the aspects of those resumes are just irrelevant in terms of how the presentations are going.
00:06:26
Speaker
100%, yeah. Then you have the other end, which is like these new people that have done all this great work and they have no idea how to talk to a judge and jury. Well, right. And then you'll always have a situation where that communication level between and expert who knows everything and a jury that's going to decide the case. I mean, there's got to be a connect there. Right.
00:06:53
Speaker
And i'm I've seen where it's most recently i have heard people But jurors say they completely disregarded it because they didn't understand it, which is crazy to me.
00:07:08
Speaker
Right. We'll just ignore it because it must be irrelevant if we can't understand it. Which is, you know, it's obviously not irrelevant. It's highly relevant. And to me, data is is direct evidence, right?
00:07:19
Speaker
it is. Data is direct evidence. It's not circumstantial. Exactly. And so to me, i'm I feel like that is a another one of those sort of anomalies. You're right. It probably will write itself um exactly like you said, but it's just sort of in the meantime when we see it happening. It's very frustrating. Right.
00:07:38
Speaker
Well, another thing that goes on in the background of these type cases is courts have to rule. And until courts start ruling on you know what things are pertinent related to criminal defenses or criminal prosecutions, which we're there. I mean, you and I have watched trials over the last 15, 20 years where Google Maps became relevant. Text messages became relevant.
00:08:02
Speaker
in the In just the last two or three years, we've watched how Apple Health data and Google Takeout and Facebook Takeout are very relevant parts of investigations.
00:08:13
Speaker
um It's interesting what... investigators choose to focus on because sometimes I'm like, it wasn't there more than this? Because it seems like there should have been based on what they're presenting in front of us. Exactly. Yeah.
00:08:26
Speaker
And so in this case, Anna is
Suspicion on Alan Gould
00:08:29
Speaker
married. um She was married to a man who was a little bit older. 52 and she's back Good.
00:08:37
Speaker
um her husband' saying miss alllan Now, Alan Gould, G-O-U-L-D, he is put in an interesting predicament because police come to talk to him in April 2017.
00:08:51
Speaker
And he's not the first person to ah report that Anna has gone missing. He's sort of forced into filing a missing persons report because Anna's coworkers were like, where is she?
00:09:05
Speaker
Um, they asked very early on and that, I think that makes a big difference in a criminal investigation when the people who are in your life call attention to the fact that something has happened.
00:09:16
Speaker
i know It's always a bad sign if the husband or the significant other doesn't make the report. i I think it is. um Like, I think it can feel, like, when it's going on, because I've i've had to do this, and it's weird.
00:09:35
Speaker
Like, when it's happening, it feels a little busybody-ish. It really does, yeah. Like, you don't want to be the guy that's, like, randomly reporting someone, on and they end up getting in trouble.
00:09:46
Speaker
But, like, you know, sometimes you kind of have to do that. And I think the way this goes down, kind of reading between the lines here, is there's a welfare check done. And Alan Gould has a story.
00:09:59
Speaker
His story is that he hasn't seen Anna since April 10th. Now, remember, her life kind of stops on her devices and, like, work and everything ah from March 28th into March 29th.
00:10:12
Speaker
And then now we're several days later, almost two weeks later. And Alan Gould says, look, I don't know what happened. She left the house. um ah I couldn't tell you what's going on.
00:10:25
Speaker
So police say that on April the 10th, Anna's car was found about two miles away from the home that she shared with her husband and their son. Now, when they go to look at the car, they're able to get all this information out of it.
00:10:43
Speaker
Because it's 2017, you know, relatively timely car. And what they're able to determine is it definitely did not move on April the 10th.
00:10:55
Speaker
so And that's when he says she left. That's when she said that she left the house with that car, and that's why that car is parked where parked, according to him. So the if you know if that's a story, that's something he clearly did not recognize realize that they would be able to recognize, right? Right. and so now they're putting out information eight years later, and we're getting a much clearer picture of this. And by the way, if you want to read more about this, this is just beginning. This story is really just coming together, even though it's been covered over time.
00:11:29
Speaker
by 6ABC. So 6ABC.com, they have like a action news section and they have a true crime news section. And they have multiple episodes in there. If you want to go learn more about how this case has unfolded, there are older things to go look at where they've done, you know, sort of long form. um i I would say YouTube is the the best place to watch their long form because you can see, ah you know, where it's been published.
00:11:58
Speaker
The older ones... In my opinion, it's a little better because when you get closer and closer to any kind of arrest or a trial, i think a lot of information gets sort of dumbed down. But when someone is still missing, a lot of facts are put out there in terms of trying to get the attention of the public.
00:12:19
Speaker
And really what they were doing along the way was looking for Anna. So one of the things that came out from the district attorney in this news conference that 6ABC sort of elaborates on is that investigators say on March the 30th.
00:12:32
Speaker
So her life stops kind of March 28th, doesn't pick up again March 29th. We have some interesting digital information on March the 30th, and that is Anna's father gets a text message that's from her device, and it's wishing him a happy birthday.
00:12:51
Speaker
But one of the things that's kind of left behind is the message is kind of garbled. Grammar-wise, it's incorrect. Now, Anna, ah you might have guessed from Macy Juszka, the last name, and she grew up in Poland.
00:13:04
Speaker
Her Polish was perfect. So this message that's sent to her dad wishing him happy birthday is in Polish, but it is a terrible syntax and grammar of a happy birthday message.
00:13:18
Speaker
And investigators decided it seemed like it was out of character and they used that to get more information. And according to the district attorney, what they were able to determine was that this message had been crafted by someone going on Google Translate.
00:13:33
Speaker
So we're kind of talking about like things that you can get caught. That's like one more layer to this case that's interesting to me, that you're on Google Translate trying to figure out how to move English words to Polish words, and you're going to text somebody overseas to keep, I guess, the window of time where her family, I'm assuming the husband they've been together so long, he would know that the family looking at like her not wishing dad a happy birthday would probably like start calling around.
00:14:05
Speaker
so he's trying to widen that length of time between when she's actually gone missing and when somebody comes around starting to ask questions. But unfortunately, he ends up, or fortunately, um unfortunately for him, the defense, because I'm going to go and spoil it, that's where we're headed.
00:14:23
Speaker
Fortunately for us, He left kind of footprints behind. So this case never really goes cold in terms of the investigators. There are interviews conducted over a total of eight years.
00:14:40
Speaker
And according to the DA and the detectives involved, all of those interviews showed that Anna was... By all accounts, a devoted mother to her son, a devoted sister, and she was actively involved in the lives of her extended family.
00:14:58
Speaker
So he said there's nothing to indicate that she would stop corresponding with her family. and And they certainly did not find anything to indicate that she would stop spending money to go visit them.
00:15:10
Speaker
I know you have family overseas. And like that's a whole planning thing that you go through where you you orient part of your life around the the planning of, the saving for, and the execution of trips overseas to go see them and vice versa, right?
Legal Proceedings Against Alan
00:15:24
Speaker
Exactly, yep.
00:15:26
Speaker
So all of that had stopped back in March and essentially the DA could not find any sort of reason that Anna would have abandoned her son.
00:15:39
Speaker
So what we're getting to here is that Alan Goode in 2025 on this old, old, old case, he has now been arrested.
00:15:53
Speaker
So is eight years after anna goes missing. Alan Gould is charged with first and third degree murder, abuse of a corpse, ah false reports, and a slew of other offenses here.
00:16:09
Speaker
um What we' we're learning from the press conference announcing his arrest is because they ask, some of the reporters are asking about motive, Now, it looks like Anna had gone out and hired an attorney to start plotting for divorce and for a custody situation.
00:16:32
Speaker
So they had executed a search warrant on the home in 2017. And it took them eight years to build a pretty rock-solid case. um There's a cadaver dog along the way, so that's going to show up at trial, that showed alert behavior to human remains in an area on their property.
00:16:54
Speaker
There was a check found, according to the search warrant return, that had a $75,000 check. There was a $75,000 check found that Alan good Gould, ah he appeared to be making out to his attorney with the memo line, quote, trial defense if needed.
00:17:15
Speaker
ah Court documents also showed that in June of 2017, Alan started using burner phones to communicate with his sister.
00:17:27
Speaker
And the reason that he was telling people he was doing this is he believed that his phone had been bugged.
00:17:36
Speaker
Which is weird. Yeah. Yeah. um So there's an affidavit in this case. And like I said, 6ABC has it up, just to give credit to some of the people that are working on it at 6ABC. Looks like over the years we've had Annie McCormick, John Paul, ah Caroline Goggin.
00:17:56
Speaker
And Annie McCormick, it looks like she's like kind of the lead on all of this. um They've done a fabulous job. That's a really good starting point if you want to go find a source for what's happening.
00:18:08
Speaker
Did you see where, um when I was looking into this case to record about it, did you see where he was initially, I mean, he was the only person of interest to begin with, right? Right.
00:18:20
Speaker
And so, like, they, I don't know if it was the first announcement, but but I saw things back in 19 where they were announcing, like, he's a person of interest, suspect, ah and, you know, however that progressed.
00:18:32
Speaker
Yeah, I saw some of it. It just took so long. I know. And that's what I was going to ask you about. What do you think of that? that like... it would take, because, you know, there's a couple of like sort of run of the mill things, uh, like factual things that are happening here. You know, the last person to see somebody that has gone missing, who doesn't reappear, there's ah most of the time they have something, they have some knowledge about it. If they're not responsible, usually they are responsible in, ah cases, you know, in, I don't know what the percentage is, but it's very high.
00:19:09
Speaker
ah it's almost always the significant other, unless there's some other um outlying factors that it they didn't seem to be relevant in this case, right?
00:19:20
Speaker
Yeah. Well, one of the reasons I brought this case up is because I'm really interested to see if it actually goes to trial because of that. I think it's a trend that we're seeing.
00:19:31
Speaker
So you and I, over the years, have talked about and at different points of time, like we've sat down and physically watched domestic violence, homicide trials, um, in different, in different jurisdictions and in different types of live streaming.
00:19:51
Speaker
um I don't know if you and I have seen the same amount of them and I don't, and I don't know which way that would skew, but I remember there was this point in time where,
00:20:02
Speaker
the statistics were weighing on things in such a way that like pretty much the husband would just get arrested. if not right away, definitely within a year or so of the crime. And there's been a series of those where I think all this technology we're watching, like sort of muddied the water for prosecutions and defenses as to, um, like how these were happening.
00:20:29
Speaker
That's really interesting, and you're probably right. um And some of the things, like, because I immediately, I'm thinking to myself, if there had been an outlying circumstance, there wouldn't have been a check for $75,000 to the attorney saying and in case it's needed for a defense.
00:20:46
Speaker
Right. Right? And then, like, the burner fan issue, not reporting her missing until somebody else brought it to authorities' attention first. Right. and all that And then you know her car wasn't cranked on the day he said she drove off and ah and never came back.
00:21:02
Speaker
That means it was gone before then, right? Right, right. and so Or after. I mean, it just was the car wasn't cranked that day, so it completely undermines the story, right? It does. Right.
00:21:14
Speaker
um And so I wonder, um so you're saying basically like in the defendant's favor, any defendant's favor, they're taking longer to actually make sure they've got a good case, right? I think that's part of it.
00:21:29
Speaker
Right. And so, you know, there's nothing wrong with that. But I do think that this was a long time. and it is It's an unusually long time. um In this affidavit, there's a couple things, and then I want to come back to this exact thing about the long time part.
00:21:47
Speaker
um The affidavit alleges that Alan Goode had clicked on different Twitter pages. That directed him to websites. So this is not searches because we've had cases where Google searches were a huge deal.
00:22:02
Speaker
This is links clicked. And I'm starting to see this in both Magnet Axiom, which is one type of like cell phone dump, and in Celebrate, which is the more traditional law enforcement cell phone dump.
00:22:15
Speaker
um But this directed him to a ah definition of, quote, violent crime strangulation. So basically, he clicked on something and either went to a definition page or like on some phones now, you can right click and look up.
00:22:32
Speaker
And that's like the more popular phones. It shows you something on the screen. So that data is starting to be captured. Yeah. In court documents, state police note that they believe that this particular definition is is significant because there has been an accusation that Anna had been strangled.
00:22:56
Speaker
So according to the reporters that put together some of the more recent articles, they say that state police sounded ah surrounded the home back in May. ah They saw bags of evidence everywhere. They could see through open windows where the police were going through everything in the home.
00:23:11
Speaker
and They said Anna's friends were gathered outside. They were really glad that there be a break in this case. um So they were also letting family know back in Poland what was going on.
00:23:23
Speaker
The DA does comment in the press conference about why did it take so long to bring charges. He says, we wanted to make sure that we use technology from 2024-25 that wasn't in existence in 2017. We wanted to make sure it's not just about prosecuting people because we have a strong feeling they did it.
00:23:42
Speaker
We have to proveise prove our case beyond a reasonable doubt. And I'll say this. I don't know what happened during the pandemic that made this happen, but the way that the police utilize digital devices completely changed. I don't know if people just had downtime and they came up with all these programs and like some of the programs aren't new, but some of the things that are being done in these Axiom andelbright and and, uh,
00:24:14
Speaker
great key programs. like What's happening there, it is producing about 10 times the information it used to. i think it's also the people that are available to interpret it.
00:24:26
Speaker
Yeah, and that's that's another thing, kind of like what we were talking about with people having difficulty presenting, that crowd that's younger, they wrap their heads around this information really fast.
00:24:39
Speaker
Yes, they definitely do. And that's, I think that that is the leading path in why it has become like so much more relevant. Like i had mentioned, the Action News has been covering this. So they did put out an Annie McCormick article on 625, so June 25th of this year.
00:25:02
Speaker
And this one kind of summed up ah what's going on in the case currently. says eight years after the disappearance of Anna Macy Juska, the man now charged with killing her will go to trial.
00:25:14
Speaker
This is according to a district justice or judge who is named James Kovaleski. He ruled this this this week, in fact, the week of the 25th.
00:25:26
Speaker
ah Basically, they're saying here with the different offenses he's charged with over the course of a two-day preliminary hearing that the evidence presented before this justice was enough. They did say it appeared largely circumstantial.
00:25:42
Speaker
You and I are on the fence of like how that works because if they've got all this digital evidence from back then it could be circumstantial. But we feel like that's more direct evidence today. I also feel like when it, okay, like for example in this case he said she left on April the 10th. Yes.
00:26:02
Speaker
And like, unless she left in a different vehicle or whatever, I feel like data, data, like ah right off the vehicle that directly contradicts that. I feel like that is direct evidence. I feel like that too.
00:26:16
Speaker
It contradicts a factual statement he made, right? Yeah. And so I do see where like in some situations it could be circumstantial, but I also think that when it directly contradicts something and it's data, which is like not, it data means like but regardless of who you are, when you're looking at it, it's subject to interpretation, but only a little bit.
00:26:42
Speaker
Right. Otherwise, it's just facts, right? like Because the car computer system, it doesn't know why you're looking at it. It's not going to skew it in favor or against you, Right. right It just is what it is. Now, granted, you've got to be able to interpret it, and you've got to be able to teach that interpretation to jurors if it gets to that point, right? Yeah.
00:27:03
Speaker
But other than that, I mean, it is what it is. So I do understand that, you know, there's not her blood, there's not DNA. But to me, i do, i feel I feel like, especially going forward, the smarter these experts are getting,
00:27:19
Speaker
this kind of stuff is going to lean more towards the direct evidence um as opposed to circumstantial. But I also understand that a limited understanding of it could limit it limited limit it to being considered circumstantial, right? Yeah.
00:27:40
Speaker
Well, so it says that in this two-day hearing, a lot of state troopers came in for this. So the state police in Pennsylvania were the ones who did the searches back in 2017.
Marital Issues and Motives
00:27:50
Speaker
They mentioned that there's blood samples from Anna's Audi. That's the car in question. Some of the blood samples that they were able to get recovered from the car showed her husband's profile, like as far as DNA goes.
00:28:04
Speaker
And they testified that the samples were small and that there was not enough for them to detect a second DNA profile, meaning Anna's blood, I think is where they were having it. He had a lot of time to clean up the situation, though.
00:28:17
Speaker
He did. That's one of the things they point out, um is that the car was extensively clean prior to them getting a search here. um And we get a little more information than we had in in the previous May setup when they were arresting him.
00:28:30
Speaker
It says that the handler of a canine tasked with detecting the scent of human remains alerted to that portion of the back of the property, but also to the trunk of Anna's car. Troopers testified that there seemed to be a blue tarp missing from their house.
00:28:46
Speaker
And a neighbor reported seeing Alan Goode outside cleaning a tarp off sometime in that time frame that they're looking at. And they were able to give us a little more information about that time frame.
00:29:00
Speaker
They said that based on analyzed computer, cell phone, and vehicle data, Anna was searching for flights to Poland in March. And she was specifically timing it where she was going to be going over to see her father for his birthday.
00:29:17
Speaker
Her complete digital footprint seemed to come to a halt early March 29th. ah They were able to give examples of things that had been going on in the weeks and months prior.
00:29:29
Speaker
And that was that in Anna, now this is you know evidence from Anna, in her internet search searches, she had been looking for ah information about divorce, about depression, about suicide prevention, and about emotional abuse.
00:29:43
Speaker
And text messages between her and her friends and her and up to and including her husband, family, um showed ah as some form of a disintegrating marriage.
00:29:56
Speaker
ah Coworkers, friends, and family also testified that Alan Gould did not seem to want to contact police about the disappearance or to search for his missing wife.
00:30:08
Speaker
um her family stated in Poland they could not get her on the phone after March 29th and that they had already hired a private investigator to start looking into things. She was officially reported missing April 12th, 2017.
00:30:21
Speaker
ah two thousand and seventeen And according to that missing person's report, Alan Gould said she was last seen driving that blue Audi to work April 10th. Now, keep in mind, Anna's coworkers had already started talking about this and reported her missing.
00:30:38
Speaker
The Audi is discovered near their home weeks after that happened. And That makes me think, although I didn't hear the exact dates, that makes me think they reported her missing, like, kind of the first time she didn't show up for a shift.
00:30:52
Speaker
Exactly. Yeah. Well, the first or second, right? Yeah. if you've got an employee that's worked any amount of time and They always come to work, and then suddenly they're not there with absolutely no explanation.
00:31:06
Speaker
You might let it slide one time, but the second – you may not even let it slide the one time, especially if you can't get a hold of them. Right. But definitely not, you know, a day or two in, you're going to be calling somebody.
00:31:20
Speaker
Yeah, and that seems to be what they did here, which is smart. Like I said, that can feel a little busybody-ous when it first happens. um It does not seem to be the case here.
00:31:31
Speaker
but Well, the key is not hearing from them, right? Right. Because if you if somebody's you know deathly sick and they can't make it to work, but then you call them and they're like, oh, I'm sorry, I was deathly sick, right? Right.
00:31:44
Speaker
like that explains it away, it the longer it goes without an explanation. If the person is somebody who has a their schedule in life is that they go to work, right? I mean, if it's somebody that blows work off consistently, usually you don't keep the job long, right? Yeah.
00:32:01
Speaker
But it just seemed I've never seen how old her son was. i always get really concerned. like i mean, I know i you know I don't know this family. ah didn't know Anna. I don't know her son or her husband. But I always wonder how much the child was exposed to.
00:32:18
Speaker
you know, in this whole interaction that occurred. And it's always concerning to me. I'm sure authorities have spoken with him. And, you know, he's eight years older now. The kid would have been four years old when she goes missing.
00:32:36
Speaker
So 12 now? Yeah, that's, that's tough i mean, it's possible that, um so at four, like just sort of an average kid, I feel like it's possible he saw something and it's also possible the father could have explained it away.
00:32:52
Speaker
yeah But he would have been knowledgeable enough to explain that to investigators. But I don't know. That's sad. That's really sad.
00:33:03
Speaker
Well, you know, for for the defense side of this, ah the attorney um has basically come out and said that after years innuendo, the attorney,
00:33:14
Speaker
um the husband is looking forward to clearing his name. um And that's Evan Kelly, who he is, because Alan gu is jailed without bail in Chester County at the time, that's sort of what's going on. One thing I did, I made a note of, and I don't know where I saw this. It might've been NBC, Pennsylvania or Philadelphia.
00:33:34
Speaker
There was apparently another DNA profile found, And i don't know if we know who that is yet based on how it was presented. And the way that they get to that tarp is that some point in time they had a receipt or a rewards card purchase indicating Alan Gould had bought three of the same blue tarps and one of those was nowhere to be found.
00:34:02
Speaker
I find that really interesting. um I'm sure that they drew a conclusion that made sense to them. But to me, and I don't know about you, I think a deep dive into my life could find the purchase of a lot of tarps and a lot of them are no longer around.
00:34:24
Speaker
Yeah, i you know i I just wanted to mention them because I put notes down. There was another aspect of this that was interesting to me, and that is... They didn't come out and say this, but they indicated with records that they had been looking for basically use of her passport.
00:34:42
Speaker
They wanted to see had she done something sneaky with a passport and maybe, you know, left the country, gone to Poland. This is someone who traveled internationally after all. And they indicated that they did not find any of the things they expected to find, even based on her own travel history.
00:34:59
Speaker
And that's complex in 2025 to travel without at least getting your passport scanned and leaving a record. Right. If not impossible. Well, I was going to say, you know, I've, I've traveled to different countries and while I'm not sure, like, I don't recall if like it was actually scanned or not. I know I don't have stamps for everywhere I went.
00:35:21
Speaker
because sometimes they're just not stamping things. I've also been unexplic inexplicably waved through customs in several countries. And so in my thought process, I mean, there would be like an airline ticket that linked me to it, right? That's what I always think is that they're checking the manifest off and they are like, if if it's just a busy day, I think they grab like,
00:35:49
Speaker
you know, couples and families, particularly families that have like small children, I think a lot of times they just sort of get checked off from the manifest. Yeah, that is possible. A lot of my international travel, I did have a small child with me. And I think it's between countries. Like when you're, say your first destination is the U.S. and your final destination is China, but you're hitting three or four places along the way, i think the three or four places along the way might be more apt to wave you through.
00:36:16
Speaker
Sure. Yeah, that's possible. And like I said, I don't have a great recollection of where or where not my my passport was... even looked at but i guess the plane ticket running sort of along with that would explain it but i imagine that was part of his story maybe yeah i think he was i think he was trying to link the fact that her dad's birthday was coming up that like he was basically trying to make it look like she decided to vanish and i will say that you don't leave a four-year-old behind
00:36:50
Speaker
You absolutely do not, especially like going to your father. Because honestly, I mean, I'm, you know, I'm in my 40s now. i I don't have a four-year-old, but I have a child. um And like my my parents would rather see my child almost, right? Yeah.
00:37:08
Speaker
Like, and so it's just not going to be that type of thing, right? um Where you would just leave them behind. um So they weren't getting along.
00:37:19
Speaker
Now, do you think from the information we have from the affidavit and the media, do you think that this was a s snap, ah like anger, or do you think there were deeper motives here? Because my guess is it's like money and custody is like what he like.
00:37:39
Speaker
There's probably i mean, do you want me to be real specific at what I think happened here? Well, I'm just, I'm curious. Yeah. I think as a nosy sort of dude, if that's the way we go, i think you have one of two things.
00:37:52
Speaker
He's either a nosy sort of dude and he comes across evidence that she's had a consultation and starting to either squirrelly money or spending money towards a divorce or something. Cause they mentioned divorce papers being found in the house.
00:38:04
Speaker
That would make it a snapped moment. If he comes across it on his own or with her planning to go out of town and she has her work and she has the kid.
00:38:16
Speaker
she could have presented it to him. And i don't know that that would be as much of a snapped moment. So if he finds the papers on his own or finds evidence that she's leaning towards divorce on his own, that might be like an ambush situation. He gets her alone and he just kills her.
00:38:35
Speaker
And that is to me a snapped kind of moment. But I do think if she confronted him, that could also lead to a s snap. And it could be, i you know It could be that he plotted it a little bit. um it doesn't Just off the cuff, it looks like he focused more on cleanup than he did on— but So that would be a s snap.
00:38:56
Speaker
That's what I think. But he's also successfully gotten rid of her butt, which he had a there was a substantial amount of time here. Between the time that like and she disappeared and then they really started looking at And we're talking like, what, 15 days or something like that?
00:39:13
Speaker
That's a lot of time to clean up and get rid of a body, right? Right. And i guess the age is surprising to me a little bit um because he, you know, he but did you say he was in his 50s?
00:39:30
Speaker
He would have been 52 when it happened, yeah. That's a little bit surprising because, you know, in life we we learn all these fantastic lessons, right? Yeah.
00:39:40
Speaker
And one of them is You know, they could have parted ways and gone on about their lives separately. yeah. And mean never you never want to be in a situation where you're with somebody who wants to be divorced from you, right? Yeah. Because, like, what are you going to do? Bully them into staying with you or manipulate them into staying with you? Because that's real healthy, right? Right.
00:40:04
Speaker
right Of course, he murdered her, or he allegedly murdered her, and she's never been found. But I guess it's just really odd to me because... I can't quite wrap my head around, which it happens with people older than in their 50s, right, all the time.
00:40:24
Speaker
But it just seems like such a waste for him to go that route. And I like to think, the reason I asked you was, I like to think... it was more of an out of control moment because certainly any husband and father who thought it all the way through wouldn't do something like that.
00:40:42
Speaker
Right. Yeah. um I think that there, you know, and different, I don't know if it's consistent in all the States, but different States have the heat of passion defense.
Domestic Violence Defense Strategies
00:40:53
Speaker
That's part of like the sentencing. Have you heard of that?
00:40:56
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I see ah And it substantially reduces what, you could possibly be sentenced to, right? Yeah, it frequently ends up with a voluntary manslaughter or a second-degree murder that might normally have been a second or first degree.
00:41:12
Speaker
Right, and that tells me, right, that that this is a human condition that occurs, right, where you people people go off the handle and then they accept most of those cases don't have this missing person element, right?
00:41:31
Speaker
Yeah, most of yes. Because it's more of a somebody has died. When the investigation reveals what occurred, it quickly comes out.
00:41:41
Speaker
The person responsible for it was reacting. I don't know how that's going work out here, but that's the reason I ask, because I would like to think that in his right mind, he wouldn't have done anything to jeopardize you know, the person that you're with, their life, basically, and their child, right?
00:42:03
Speaker
And then in my mind, I thought she told him, well, yeah, I'm going to go see my dad in Poland, and I'm taking the little guy with me, and we're not coming back. Yeah, I could see that, too. Like, I'm going home, and we're getting divorced, and and and you won't see your son except for what the court requires I do.
00:42:21
Speaker
Right. And to me, I feel like that could have supercharged that moment. Maybe it's not, it's still not her fault. she had every, I don't know what was going on, but she wanted to, you know, and she had every right to want a divorce.
00:42:34
Speaker
Absolutely. And it just seems like very unfortunate ah circumstances. We have no idea how she died. Right. We don't know we because there's no body. Yeah.
00:42:45
Speaker
And it seems like that element, along with the fact that she had family and another country, I think that's that would play a big role in her.
00:42:59
Speaker
Like, if she was somebody who was, like, born and raised in that town and had never gone anywhere, I don't know that it would have taken as long. that ah It might not ever have happened if there's not the international escape element because we see the other side of this too. And I'm not saying this is what would have happened. I'm just saying we see instances where mothers and fathers sometimes are fed up with their spouse in the United States or another country.
00:43:29
Speaker
And they basically end up in a situation where they're accused of sort of an international kidnapping Because and it it goes either way. Like it could be they were an abuser and they were trying to get away or it could be that they're an abusive a spouse is the one they're trying to get away from. Right. So there's a victim. Right. Right. And so we see that happen. like and And like depending on the scenario, like sometimes it's vindictive and sometimes it's They don't want to be a victim anymore. So like that can also be translated differently. And that could have been ah possible outcome of all of this.
00:44:10
Speaker
and that if I shudder to say this, but one of the mistakes made here that make me think it's a pretty
00:44:22
Speaker
but snapped to kind of crime is the kid's still alive. and and like And like, if you don't account for that particular element, and and I'm not, I am in no way suggesting that that would have made this a quote, better crime. I'm just saying, if you're not accounting for that, you have a huge problem.
00:44:42
Speaker
You have who every person that for the last four years, that has ah even five years, when because there's a pregnancy beforehand, who has come in contact with this woman is going to know what kind of mother she is.
00:44:53
Speaker
And they're going to have opinions. And some of those opinions are going to be positive, and some may be mixed, and some may be negative. But if you don't know all of those opinions, you now have a huge, huge piece of evidence sitting there with you living and breathing.
00:45:08
Speaker
Right. I see what you're saying. You're saying not like he would have wanted to kill his son, but to make the element of her actually leaving work, he would have to Correct. like and like you and I have statistically talked about the odds of like, like, like the defense in this case has to against whatever the state police put up for a trial.
00:45:34
Speaker
Now they're forced into a corner because of his story, and because of the circumstances And they have multiple lies to overcome. Right. And see, find. You can't say it's a random serial killer, right?
00:45:47
Speaker
Of course not. Right. Yeah, no, it's definitely not that. And we know that he lied about the timing. Exactly. And that's where it all starts to go wrong. Yep. As soon as they have that data that says, well, what he's saying isn't possible, right? Yeah.
00:46:04
Speaker
And. I'm sure that, you know, there's advantages to throwing the date off, right? yeah. lot of advantages. But when it comes back and they're like, yeah, the car wasn't cranked that day and it didn't move.
00:46:18
Speaker
So the only way what he did works in terms of a criminal defense is if if he somehow figures out early on a way to not make himself look as guilty by simply lawyering up.
00:46:34
Speaker
Because when the coworkers have reported her missing and the cops come around and you start, for lack of a better word, making up a story, and that story has holes in it, then you've now gone on the record.
00:46:52
Speaker
You've talked about your missing wife. You've given them inklings that you cannot correct. Right. And the biggest one here, the biggest problem here in terms of some kind of a criminal defense is April 10th, he says he saw her drive away to work.
00:47:09
Speaker
And then you have the contradicting element of her entire life stopping on March 29th. So what, you didn't see her for the 12 days in between there? Or she somehow, like the cell phone that you have in your possession, disappeared.
00:47:27
Speaker
disappeared twice. i mean, like, what are you going to say at that point that you can, um ah make yourself look like you're also like one of the victims
Building the Case Against Alan
00:47:39
Speaker
in this case. And now the eight years it took to arrest them, notwithstanding, I'm guessing that the prosecution of this case, if it comes to actual trial, which it probably will, um,
00:47:55
Speaker
I'm guessing they don't have a lot of holes in their story after eight years. I would hope so. I mean, otherwise, like, why did it take so long? Because you could have, like, a ah story with holes in it right from the beginning, right? Yeah.
00:48:06
Speaker
I kind of feel i that does make it seem less planned out, the way that you just explained it. Yeah, I mean. You know, you like, did he think nobody noticed she was at work that whole time?
00:48:20
Speaker
I mean, he like, so there's some things you could overlook. Like, he wasn't smart enough to ditch the phone. He wasn't smart enough to know that the car telematics would give him up. Like, so, like that, like, maybe he's not expected to know those things.
00:48:33
Speaker
But, like, just saying I saw her on April the 10th when her life stopped on March 29th is enough that, like, you have a problem that's almost indefensible. Because if you didn't say that, if he just kept his mouth shut on that one element...
00:48:49
Speaker
I don't know what else he said in here that's been brought up. would make the case a whole lot harder. Yeah, but but then why didn't you go looking for on April the 1st or April the 2nd or April the 3rd? So each thing he did and didn't do, while he gave himself more time and the cleanup happens and the body is hard to find, we don't we no longer live in a world where no body, no crime is a thing.
00:49:14
Speaker
Absolutely not, because there are there are elements of our lives that even if our body cannot be found, we'll carry on if we are somewhere, right?
00:49:24
Speaker
Right. It's the thing that sticks in my head, like like painting is where I get it from, but like white is the absence of light, and black is like all the light? Is that right, or is it vice versa? Right.
00:49:42
Speaker
You know what? If you hadn't have asked me, I could have told you. Well, so whatever that quote is that I, some for some reason, it's totally escaped me. but But that quote applies. Like, the body laying there is one type of problem for a defendant.
00:49:58
Speaker
And the body being completely missing is a different type of problem for a defendant. So black is the absence of light and a white is the, is I guess all the light.
00:50:09
Speaker
Okay. So, so then a white case is when the body is there and a black case is when the body is missing. Right. Cause it has absorbed everything basically.
00:50:21
Speaker
Yeah. That's really interesting. And it's, it's very telling, but you know, if he had never said anything at all, right. they would have no idea why he didn't do any of the things he didn't do or why he did the things that he did. So I'm sort of glad he talked, but it's also from a defense perspective, it's sort of reinforcing like why you now don't get me wrong. If the police show up after your wife's coworkers have reported her missing and you say, I'm not talking to you.
00:50:55
Speaker
That's not going to be great. Well, that's not the, okay. So PSA for the day, there is a way to do that by lawyering up and sure speaking with counsel who will then walk you through the process of what to do and not do.
00:51:14
Speaker
But let's say that, let's say for a second, he's not responsible for this. Okay. And he, they were having a bitter breakup. Right.
00:51:25
Speaker
And he didn't hate her enough to kill her because he was over the marriage as well. Now, I don't know that that works necessarily, but it is possible he didn't know where she was for you know a couple weeks or whatever, and he didn't feel like he needed to report her missing because as far as he was concerned, they were having a bitter breakup and she wasn't missing, right? Yeah, she might have left the country just for a visit, or she might have a boyfriend, or she might just need time away from his dumbass.
00:51:54
Speaker
Like there are multiple explanations that not talking to the police, like, and having a lawyer filter that information could have potentially made this a better defensive outcome. I don't think that that's what the true crime world really wants anyways.
00:52:09
Speaker
they don't Well, of course not. Unless it's, you know, a horrible, wrongful conviction and then everybody's all over That's... that's But from what I'm seeing, don't think this is a serial killer or boyfriend or anybody killing her Yeah, this is that says that. The words that he spoke, they as far as I'm concerned, they sealed his fate. He should take ah plea.
00:52:29
Speaker
like as far i mean, I just don't see any like innocent way around it, right? Correct. and those are sort of the cases where you're like, well, yeah. I mean, you I think there was... I don't know what it was. Was it a a motion that...
00:52:44
Speaker
I don't know if it was a motion for dismissal or whatever, but the judge was like, no, this is going to go forward because there's lots of circumstantial evidence here, right? Oh, it looks to me like um it's probably like a combination preliminary hearing, probable cause hearing, and like bail reduction hearing.
00:53:01
Speaker
Like you do, like there's, there's enough time and space here that like a judge might set a bond, If the probable cause in the case is not looking favorable for the prosecution or it looks like there's like some plausible defense explanations.
00:53:16
Speaker
And I'm not saying that you should just judge this case based off the preliminary hearing or the probable cause hearing. um I know. I have been ah part of many probable cause hearings that are about things other than probable cause.
00:53:32
Speaker
It could be there's like some kind of raging community outrage against you holding this person without bail. And like you have to present your evidence so that people can understand that like this person probably did this heinous crime.
00:53:47
Speaker
And like, I don't think that's this case, though. No, no, I don't think that's what's happening here. I think what's happening here is probably any defense attorney worth their salt would say, look, it took him eight years to arrest this guy. Come on, your honor, give him bail.
00:54:02
Speaker
And that forced the state's hand where they have to come in and like start presenting enough to get past the probable cause hump, which is different than the conviction hump. Right. And I think about these tastes of, uh, I don't want to downplay it, but it's, it's a pretty generic domestic violence situation. Right.
00:54:21
Speaker
In my mind. Anyway, ah her missing is kind of, it's unique. Yeah. sort of Her missing the body being completely missing the international element, and then sort of the lag time from his mistakes in 2017 to now being when he's arrested.
00:54:40
Speaker
Those are the things that make it interesting to me, but I don't know that we'll get a trial out of this. Yeah, well, I mean, i I don't think it's a great idea, but it's also, you know, he he doesn't he didn't take responsibility for it, right? No.
00:54:56
Speaker
And any attorney worth their salt, um they are leaning heavy on the fact that he's charged with a third-degree murder. And like that's going to be what they aim for. third degree. First degree and third degree. He's charged with both. So that means that the prosecution often ah the prosecution's office has brought charges indicating first degree and third degree.
00:55:18
Speaker
That means somewhere in all of this, they had a plan to talk to him. And some piece or pieces of this circumstantial and direct evidence had a gap.
00:55:33
Speaker
And they couldn't decide. It's kind of like the conversation we had earlier. Did he plan this and murder her for money and custody and like not having to split things with her in the divorce? Or did he have this bad marriage and she like confronted him and he lashed out and killed her?
00:55:51
Speaker
And it was manslaughter, second degree. something okay They didn't charge second degree here. So my guess is this becomes a third degree plea. as long as he discloses the location of her remains.
00:56:03
Speaker
That's my guess. Yeah, and i don't know I don't know if that's truly justice or not, but it is what it is at this point. Yeah. and i had So I had started this off planning to have a second episode, I mean a second um story in this episode, but I think the way that this is going, I need to make that its own story.
00:56:25
Speaker
episode don't you yes so um i will keep an eye on this one and we will come back around to seeing what uh what happens with the case of anna macy juska and and like her husband alan gould having been accused of killing her back in 2017 and seventeen Special consideration was given to True Crime XS by LabradiCreations.com.
00:56:55
Speaker
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00:57:14
Speaker
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00:57:23
Speaker
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00:57:33
Speaker
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00:57:44
Speaker
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00:57:55
Speaker
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00:58:13
Speaker
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