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Developing your SEO mindset with Mark A Preston
54 Plays2 years ago
Mark A Preston is a coach, public speaker and author who takes people on a journey from SEO Robot to SEO Marketer.
There are countless tasks and projects in SEO that 'might' help a business move towards goals, so how should you prioritise?
As Mark explains in this podcast episode, SEO is not a checkbox exercise. Every page on your website needs to be purpose-led, and if you build a brand that people want to do business with, Google will love you forever. This episode has so many quotable moments; it was a joy to record.
If you run an SEO Agency, are a freelancer or have Digital Marketing responsibility as a part of your job role, then this podcast episode is for you.
Mark's website is at https://www.markapreston.com/
Find Mark on LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/markprestonseo/
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Transcript
Introduction to Mark Preston's SEO Mindset Coaching
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello, welcome back to the Untitled SEO Podcast with Yesseo. I have a very interesting guest with me today. Would you like to introduce yourself on a guest? Yes, I'm Marke Preston. I'm an SEO mindset coach and professional speaker. I create long lasting positive impact. And that is exactly why I wanted to speak to you when I found you on LinkedIn.
00:00:27
Speaker
I thought, right, there's several things here that I really like. There's the mindset coach, the SEO mindset coach. Could you unravel that little bit for us, please? Yes, it's basically the ability to get people to think about SEO in the right way. Now, a lot of SEOs, they are in the checklist mindset.
00:00:54
Speaker
right and they don't actually understand why they're doing what they're doing and my job as an SEO mindset coach is to go in and help people understand what they're doing and why they're doing it and getting them into that mindset approach and giving them the light bulb moment so they can progress forward
00:01:20
Speaker
It really is one of the toughest things in
Misconceptions and Prioritization in SEO
00:01:22
Speaker
SEO. Just to let you know, dear listeners, Mark and I have both been in the industry for roughly the same amount of time. But my opinion of that is that due to the magic of SEO, we've probably had very different experiences. And this is why I'm so interested in speaking to you, Mark.
00:01:37
Speaker
But yeah, I've seen it's quite challenging that people might see SEO as a checkbox exercise of saying, right, do these 10 things. God, it already sounds like an article, doesn't it? Do these 10 things to win at SEO. Whenever I see any article like that or any course or almost anything, including some of the Google offerings, I think it's never the same from one project to the next.
00:02:00
Speaker
There are things that might be incredibly... I'll tell you what, I worked for a client a long time ago and I found out why they weren't ranking. It's because their developers had left the checkbox in WordPress that says, hide this website from search engines. With your 10 top tips for SEO, that wouldn't have come up. It's the inquisitive mind. Yes, it's getting people to think like marketers.
00:02:27
Speaker
Now, my job is really to move them from an SEO robot to an SEO marketer. And that's how I describe it. That's a wonderful phrase. I'm going to write that down, SEO robot to SEO marketer.
00:02:43
Speaker
Yeah, I've worked with some tech SEOs especially who want to form a perfect profile or a perfect idea of what a website should be, but quite often it's that perfection can actually hold you back, I think. Well, what's your opinion on that? Yeah, I think the problem here is
00:03:09
Speaker
prioritization. So what do you need to do in order to make a positive difference faster? Now does changing the speed score from 2.5 to 2 seconds actually help you to get where you need to get to quicker? Or are you just wasting lots and lots of hours
00:03:38
Speaker
in the prioritization funnel that you're not really looking at. And it astounds me the amount of time wasted when I go into both agencies and brands. They're just waste because they're prioritizing the wrong things.
00:03:59
Speaker
So yeah, so at the start of the project, what would you say is the first priority? So if you're coming into a new client, and this podcast is aimed at peers in the SEO industry, as well as people with a digital marketing responsibility in a company. So when you're coming to something completely fresh off the bat, knowing nothing at all about the project, where would you start? Well, you need to understand the business. You need to understand
00:04:28
Speaker
What's important to that business? You need to understand, well, why are you talking to them? Why have they started talking to you? What is it that they need to achieve? Because there's things outside the whole SEO arena that you probably won't be aware of.
00:04:47
Speaker
And just because some tool says you've got 50 errors and this tool says you've got 20 errors and whatever, that's meaningless to the businesses you're working with. So the first point of contact is literally to understand the why. Understand, well, what's important? Why are you doing that? Because if a brand comes to you,
00:05:16
Speaker
for SEO and you're doing what you think they want, it might be totally different from the objectives. What does the C-suite for big brands need? What is the important things? And ultimately, what will you be based upon to see this as positive?
SEO's Role in Marketing Strategy
00:05:38
Speaker
It's a really good question. I'm trying to think of ways of tidying up a short phrase that you could ask, or questions you might ask. What does success look like? What is the goal? Because more betterness isn't really enough to base a whole strategy on, I don't think.
00:05:58
Speaker
Everyone says, what's the goal? For me, again, that's a bit meaningless, right? For me, it's kind of asking, well, what do you need to achieve, right? Because the goal might be totally irrelevant. So if you understand what they need to achieve, or if you're working with the marketing director, well, what are your responsibilities?
00:06:29
Speaker
If you get into that area and that mindset, you suddenly open a whole new conversation that you wouldn't have normally opened.
00:06:39
Speaker
That's a very good point. You can't dig too much into goals at the start of a relationship because the goals set by a client or the goals set by their board might not align with what's possible through SEO anyway. It's probably more dangerous that they pitch too low.
00:07:02
Speaker
If they say, we want to increase by this much and you start digging into what opportunities might be available, you might well be able to come back and say, well, there's all these other things that you haven't looked at yet or haven't popped up. So there's really a lot to unpack, isn't there?
00:07:20
Speaker
A lot of SEOs want to get stuck in. They want to start driving new people to the website. They want to start writing new things. They want to produce new things. They want to just do things. But ultimately, some of the biggest wins I've had over the past 20 odd years has been based on just improving what they already have.
00:07:45
Speaker
That is the starting point. Now, regardless of creating new things or projecting things, if you can increase the conversion rate from half a percent to three percent, that's a massive win for the business. Yeah, I mean, I don't know if you get this, but it's quite often that the leads I get people start with, we need to do websites. And my first question is, why?
00:08:14
Speaker
I mean, sometimes they really do, but more often than not, I've had people say, well, because all the blogs are quite old and like, but that's not, don't get rid of them. Let's go through them. Let's find the good ones. Let's see what could kind of work a bit harder. And yeah, I really like that. I don't think it gets said often enough in SEO that you shouldn't just ditch your assets. SEO isn't starting from scratch.
00:08:40
Speaker
every time. I like the idea that companies should be able to work with an SEO agency for a few years and then just naturally progress onto a different SEO agency and then kind of look and go okay well these are the things that we're strong with that may have been missed but there's some really good foundational work here and I think just business owners passion is often one of the best foundation for a good SEO.
00:09:08
Speaker
SEO, what I see, it's about working with the company, with the business. It's not worth doing SEO campaigns. You are part of the whole ecosystem within that business, right? So you need to understand other aspects of that business. So for instance, one of the things I always ask
00:09:36
Speaker
is, well, what's your capacity? If we increase the number of leads to, say, 100 leads a week, do you have capacity to handle those leads or is it going to create a massive problem for you? You know, well, why can't you handle those number of leads? Well, what
00:10:00
Speaker
So what type of leads are you getting? Is it that you're busy fools and you're just having low quality leads and all these different things you need to be aware of in order to help the business to progress to where they need to be?
00:10:19
Speaker
Brilliant. So it's a high number of leads is not always a good thing. Is this what you're saying? Or you're saying that even if you have very good focus leads, if you're not ready to accept them, then you're burning your bridges or kind of spoiling, I'm trying to think of the right phrase, like burning your leads, I guess.
00:10:38
Speaker
Yeah, I think the focus is to generate quality leads, not the number of leads. The focus is to generate the quality of leads. And if the business is not generating the quality of the leads, there's something within the whole sales funnel, a marketing funnel, that's broken.
00:11:04
Speaker
You know, the messages that are going out are broken because they're attracting the wrong people. If you've looked at the SEO properly, and I mean as a marketer, that funnel should be a way to segment your audience and streamline them so the only leads you get are the people that trust you and actually need your service.
00:11:34
Speaker
So SEO really is holistic. This is a really strange conversation for me because I'm trying to be a presenter and trying to find things to challenge you on but I'm just agreeing with pretty much everything you say so I think we'll have to just sort of explore it together rather than it being a traditional kind of interviewer.
Aligning Content with Sales Funnel
00:11:53
Speaker
and guest things. So they're holistic for you. So let's try and list a few things. It's all the marketing messages outside of the website, as well as things that are actually on the website. It's the tone and language used on the website. What else would you add to that? Or disagree with me. You don't have to agree. No, I mean, it is. The problem is it's
00:12:21
Speaker
SEOs are in this mindset of, okay, we need to pump content now, we need to pump content now, we need to write about this, write about that. And it's kind of, as a mindset coach, I will say to them as a task, say, okay, write down
00:12:45
Speaker
all the new pieces of content, the titles of those new pieces of content you've written, or the past three months, or your team's written, whatever. Okay, now put those pieces in the order of the sales funnel. Now, there hasn't been one single time where they haven't had content in the after sales funnel.
00:13:11
Speaker
So I'll say to him, well, you're doing a fantastic job at servicing your competitors' customers. Right, God, unpack that little for me. Yeah. The thing is, in SEOs, look at tools, look at volumes, put a key word in. I don't know.
00:13:39
Speaker
red shoes or whatever, and get a list of phrases and questions relating to red shoes. And just go out and write about those questions and answers and things they don't think about. Well, if somebody's actually searching that, what mindset are they in? What do they actually want? You know, because if it's something like
00:14:09
Speaker
how do I polish my new red shoes they've already made the purchase you see so that way that is not going to create a sale for you so you have to as an SEO get into this right mindset all the way through and
00:14:33
Speaker
It's about one piece of content. The aim of that has a focus to get you from there to there. Now, once you get to there, to the next part, well, what's the focus then? It's not to link them back to the top of your blog. The focus is pushing them down the sales funnel. And this is how I sort of
00:14:59
Speaker
get into SEOs and the businesses to get them to understand SEO from a mindset perspective? It makes total sense. Everything you were saying is just emphasizing the fact that SEO isn't a tool that exists in isolation. It's a part of a far larger thing. You can't come in and do an SEO.
00:15:24
Speaker
I used to get asked that, can you do an SEO? It's really hard to even start with where that's a challenging phrase, but you're right. Many, many, many years ago, people would start companies by just building a website and then doing an SEO.
00:15:47
Speaker
You know, kind of doing on-site stuff, building some backlinks, and they would rank a website that had no company of substance behind it. I mean, I'm going way back to like, you know, early 2003 to 2005, 2006, and I always used to think that seems kind of futile. For one thing, if they do got all these lovely leads and all this traffic that's allegedly going to be valuable,
00:16:12
Speaker
then they can't do anything with it you can't make the decision at that point of okay it's not build it and they will come it's build your back end have a real company and then when you bring those leads to yourself you can actually do something with them and i can remember voicing that opinion to other people in seo at the time and it being quite unpopular.
00:16:32
Speaker
Because the name of the game in the early days was just people, people, people, people, people just get rankings, rankings, numbers, numbers, numbers. And I was thinking, it's not going to last. So as Google got better at sifting out those things, more people in SEO complained about it. But generally, the world online became a better place. Because I think good SEO should always echo good business practice anyway. That's what Google's after. They're not after.
00:17:00
Speaker
trying to find people who are doing bad SEO. They're trying to filter positively to represent good authoritative businesses. And I think that's a point that sometimes missed in some SEO discussions that we're not inventing something. We're not creating something from scratch. We're merely enhancing and helping focus attention on things that should be good anyway.
Coaching Approach and Problem-Solving in SEO
00:17:28
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I have a saying, right? Build a brand people want to do business with and Google will love you forever, right? Now, the way I do SEO now and the way I teach SEO now is no different than how I used to do it right in the early days.
00:17:54
Speaker
Right? Because I started in the industry building in the lead generation game, building websites and generating leads. So I needed the content to be spot on. Even back then, or else I wouldn't get the leads. And I don't really see myself as an SEO.
00:18:18
Speaker
I see myself as somebody that can help businesses move forward. It's just that the things I'm doing, Google seemed to love. And that's how I sort of describe it. I don't do anything because Google tell me to or not to do. I do things to push that business, that individual business forward.
00:18:45
Speaker
Love it, really love it. It's what I mean by we're not starting from scratch in any way. It's run a good business. And if that, I can't even say if that aligns with what Google's looking for, because we know what Google is looking for. They do tell us. They write lots of articles about what they consider good practice. It's not a huge challenge.
00:19:09
Speaker
But just to keep reinforcing this point, you have to have a high quality business behind it. A big part of my sales funnel when people contact me for who want my agency to do work for them is we spend quite a lot of time speaking to them first and getting to know them and knowing that there is potential and also knowing that they're a good business. And I'm very fortunate. It doesn't happen very often, but sometimes we get in contact and you think that they're kind of chance in it here. There's nothing.
00:19:37
Speaker
there's not a lot of substance behind it and those people tend to wander off kind of probably for the next shiny object anyway so i mean tell us more about because i'd like to think that people in seo listening to this are being as triggered by it as i am um wait can you describe a little bit more about about how you approach coaching because coaching and an seo aren't aren't two things you'll see together very often i know it's more about the mindset
00:20:07
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, for me, coaching and training is two entities that are together. So a trainer is just somebody that delivers a piece of content, a set schedule. For me, I call myself coach because I don't just deliver
00:20:32
Speaker
I understand, I coach, I mentor, I'm with them specifically for their journey. And for me, it's about streamlining. It's about, well, problem solving. It's about how can I help them, no matter if they're an agency or a content team or in-house, whoever they are,
00:21:01
Speaker
or a group of small businesses, I do a lot of coaching in the franchise industry. And it's about helping them to understand, for me, it's the understanding bit that makes the difference. And for me to approach agencies or customers, well, you need to understand, well,
00:21:31
Speaker
What challenges do you have that you might need a little help with fixing or how can you streamline things better? How can we get more productivity out of the team? How can we put a prioritization list in place? All these different things are what are the benefits for me going into these companies and agencies.
00:22:02
Speaker
So yeah, it's very much getting the deeper understanding by the coaching model so that when new challenges, I'm just sort of trying to paraphrase you a little. So when you're getting a deeper understanding of SEO, so that when new challenges appear, you have the toolkit in place to meet those challenges or to make the most of new opportunities, would that be fair? Yeah, it's the thought process.
00:22:26
Speaker
So when they are presented with a new problem, new SEO problem, it's the thought process they use that matters. And that's what, in the essence, yes, I teach skills, I teach them how to do things, but ultimately it's using this thought process to ensure that they're doing the right things.
00:22:55
Speaker
the right things, the efficient way, and yeah, it's about prioritizing then, isn't it? It's efficiency and prioritizing, and that's something that's very difficult to pick up without a lot of experience, which I applaud you for kind of now using Coaching Mom to pass your experience on, because when people come into SEO, it must seem so strange and so bewildering, because there are so many conflicting messages, and you've got large software providers
00:23:23
Speaker
who I give money to and use, who are writing articles about, well, as I said earlier, these 10 things you must know to rank. Run this audit and you'll rank. Write this many words and you'll rank. It's never like that. You've just triggered something there. Oh, God. Oh, dear. What you opened up for me
00:23:49
Speaker
there is a deep lack of context within educational content within the industry, right? And I mean a super deep lack of context
00:24:06
Speaker
Now, you read an article, say, well, we did this and it achieved this. We've done this on 100 sites and it achieved that. We've done this and do that. And all this thing, people are building a picture, but it's very, very rare that they say, well, these was the type of websites we did that, because as we both know,
00:24:35
Speaker
If you're working with a brand everybody knows, you can sneeze and generate 100 quality wings. It's easy. But as against if you're working with a small business, no one's ever heard of. It's a totally different ballgame. And the problem with lots and lots and lots of SEO educational material, it lacks that context. Because as we've both said in this podcast,
00:25:04
Speaker
It's not a one size fits all. It's very individual. And context is the thing that lacks. So whenever somebody is reading a piece of educational material, they need to ask themselves, well, how will this benefit what I'm doing?
00:25:25
Speaker
for my clients, for the business that I'm working on, will it make a difference? And if you can't understand if it will or not, well, you know, then that piece of content hasn't gathered in the right direction.
00:25:43
Speaker
and the danger is most of the content is written by people who want to sell you the solution which is kind of one of the most makes a lot of SEO articles so I don't want to say untrustworthy but so coloured as you say so they have their context but contextually compared to the project you're working on there could be no link at all I mean I got sent something earlier about
00:26:08
Speaker
What am I doing about Google's NLP thing? And whenever I get something like that, it was from somebody trying to sell something. Whenever I get that kind of thing, I think, I don't care. I mean, primarily, I don't really want to know until I can actually link it through to what's actually going to make a difference to the business and to the project I'm working on. Because there are so many things that I just don't care about.
00:26:36
Speaker
at all it's exhausting being an SEO and having people trying to sell you things because most of it you'll never need but they've got really good writers and if you're new to it and you don't keep that context at that link then you're going to spend a lot of money and get very lost I think. Yeah it goes right back to what we were talking previously about
00:27:01
Speaker
What's the purpose of each piece of content? You know, what's the purpose of each page on the website? So looking at, if you get a new website to work on, look, don't.
00:27:16
Speaker
You know, first thing people do is throw it through an audit tool and it brings out whatever and they go through the list. But think about, well, what's the purpose of that page? Because every page has to have a purpose. Now, is it actually obvious what the purpose is? If it's not, then something needs to change. You know, and it goes back into this
00:27:44
Speaker
I think logical thinking scenario and getting into the right mindset, getting to understand what the objective of an SEO is, you know.
00:27:59
Speaker
is the objective as SEO to get ranked for certain keywords? No, it's not. Businesses do not come to you because they want SEO. They come to you because they need to solve a problem that's either damaging their business or they need to
00:28:18
Speaker
get you to help them to get their business from where it is now to where they need to be and something they've heard or something they've read or somebody said something that's triggered in the mind that SEO is the thing that can help them achieve what they want. Now, if SEOs start understanding that thing then they'll progress a lot further.
00:28:46
Speaker
Company owners don't care about your SEO geekery. Generally, I don't think you should be transparent and explain in a real business way. In a relatable business term, why you've done the things you've done, but they're not going to pat you on the back and give you more money because you've achieved a perfect on-site SEO audit score.
00:29:08
Speaker
And I've said to company owners, your website can suck. You can have a terrible website. But if enough people are talking about you and you are connecting with your audience, you'll rank more than a perfectly built website that looks beautiful and matches every point on an audit. And that for me is the whole point of the SEO mindset. As I'm now, you've helped me sort of coalesce it into a
00:29:33
Speaker
Well, not a thing. It's too big for that. It's a whole shebang. But no, it still goes back to business effluence, I was going to say. It might be effluence. But yeah, there is no wonder drug for SEO.
The Evolution and Necessity of SEO
00:29:50
Speaker
There is no big switch. There is nothing. It's my opinion that going back to tools, you should be able to do SEO without paying for any tools. The tools just make it much faster if you know which direction to point the ship in.
00:30:03
Speaker
Yeah, I think another thing, why are a lot of bloggers, I mean, genuine bloggers, driving a ton of traffic? It's not because they know SEO inside out, it's just the passionate and right about the passion. Yeah.
00:30:25
Speaker
And Google see that, and they rank it. They're not trying to slap keywords in. They're not trying to manipulate anything. They're just writing about the passion. And a lot of bloggers are generating a ton of traffic. I spoke to a travel blogger, a female solo traveler who traveled around the world.
00:30:53
Speaker
and wrote about her experiences along the journey. Now, she says, Mark, can you look at it from an SEO perspective and I'm like, oh my goodness, it's fantastic. Why? Because she's generated this big audience, this loads of traffic are doing what she loves.
00:31:19
Speaker
And I think if we can relate that more into SEO, that kind of approach, then it's better for everybody.
00:31:30
Speaker
Absolutely. To that end, do you think SEO will eventually dissolve and disappear and not be a thing? As Google or other search engines are about to say, as they get better at understanding that? Because if the core thing is doing good stuff and connecting with your audience as your travel writer, then will SEO just stop being a thing?
00:31:55
Speaker
Right, here's how I personally see things. As long as manipulation works, there will always be a corner of SEO that do that. Now, until
00:32:16
Speaker
Google or the other search engines get so sophisticated to understand exactly what's manipulation and what's not, then things won't change. SEO will never die because you're always going to need to drive new people to the website.
00:32:39
Speaker
you're always gonna need to get people to the website and make sure the website works. So would you put fuel in a car with a broken engine? No, why? It probably won't go anywhere. So why spend half your life driving new people to your website if your website doesn't convert? There's always going to be
00:33:05
Speaker
a need for SEO, it might be that you have to start thinking differently about SEO. Excellent. I absolutely love it. It's that constantly evolving the thinking of it that is one of the things that's kept me interested in it for so long. I've never been that bothered about the tricks because they come and go. I'm old enough now to
00:33:30
Speaker
Can't say I've seen it all because the better Google get, the more work that small corner of SEO puts into trying to fool them. But I think Google's got bigger budgets than them. So it's ultimately going to go there. It's ultimately going to go their way anyway. But then I get asked about, I hate the phrase, but like black out, what about black out? I don't care. It's irrelevant to, yeah, as you say, those people in the corner doing those things.
00:34:00
Speaker
you know, who cares? There's people at my allotment doing stuff they shouldn't be doing on their allotment. I'm not going to change the way I'm cultivating and growing things. You know, it's, it's kind of okay to be aware of it, I think, but not not to get too, too worried about it, really, or too fixated on it. Just keep doing good stuff. Yeah, as far as ice, I don't use the terminology black hat. I use the terminology manipulation. Now,
00:34:30
Speaker
If somebody's doing manipulation on their own website, go for it, I don't care.
00:34:36
Speaker
You can do what you want. It's not your fault. It works. It's Google's fault because they haven't been able to stop it yet. Right? That's the way I see it. Now, it's if people are doing manipulation tactics that could cause a negative impact and then on clients' websites and they're not informing the client of the risks associated, then that's where the problem lies.
00:35:05
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. I agree. I just want to move on from this just a little bit because there's something else you have in your world that I'm also very interested in and that is your public speaking.
Mark's Journey into Public Speaking
00:35:19
Speaker
So tell me how did you discover a love of public speaking? By accident.
00:35:27
Speaker
It was literally, I was doing training and one day a business expo says to me, Mark, we are looking for a keynote speaker. Will you come and do a keynote for me? And I said, yeah, why not? I'm getting paid for it. And so I went and did the keynote and I saw the difference it made.
00:35:56
Speaker
I saw the light bulb moment in people's faces, just like I see that light bulb moment when I'm coaching and training one to one, so in a group. And it's that spark.
00:36:12
Speaker
that created them. From there, I looked at the marketing industry. You know, is a very, very rarely speak at marketing conferences or SEO conferences. I speak in the business world, in the corporate world. Speak to people that will understand and it will make a difference, right, to their businesses.
00:36:42
Speaker
And I like to speak at, well, basically as a professional speaker, speak where I'm getting paid, you know, and unfortunately, you know, it's a very, very rare and SEO conference. So open the wallet and pay a speaker, you know, and that's the difference. But for me, it's, I found a passion and a love for it.
00:37:09
Speaker
Have you developed your... My speaking is falling to pieces there, but I'm a member of Toastmaster, so I was asked to do speaking, and I'd always say yes, and I'd come off stage and think, I didn't get across any of my main points, I just enthusiastically, but in a fairly garbled way, just chatted away for half an hour, and everyone laughed, and that's great, but I'd come off stage and think,
00:37:35
Speaker
Yeah, I've missed an opportunity there. So I decided to get some kind of more formal training. Have you done anything like that? Or what's your approach? Well, I'm part of a Master Man group for professional speakers. And basically, we discuss challenges, we discuss everything. And I personally know a lot of the world's top speakers in the business world. I've sat there and watched them.
00:38:03
Speaker
in person. I've had the opportunity to be a member of the audience in their master classes. I've been there doing that. I've studied what others are doing. But again, it's finding your own true self. Instead, it's studying and getting help and guidance from others.
00:38:32
Speaker
and understanding what their experiences have been, just like in the world of SEO. I was going to say that beautifully brings it right back round to your message on SEO. It's more or less the same thing, isn't it? You can study other people as much as you like, but until you get your mindset straight,
00:38:53
Speaker
You're you're always it's always going to be more of a battle than it potentially needs to be Mark I think you probably can tell as we've been speaking for 40 minutes now. I'm a fan of your message. I really like the way you're doing things I'm pleased to have met you. I very much appreciate your time on this podcast. Is there anything you'd like to add before we say goodbye? No, just many thanks for Having me on as a guest
00:39:20
Speaker
And if anybody needs to get in touch, my website is markapreston.com. Brilliant. We'll put the links in the show notes. Mark, I really appreciate your time. So I'm going to say goodbye. Would you like to say goodbye? Yeah. Thank you, everybody, for listening. Goodbye and start thinking about SEO in the right way.