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Episode 164: Donna Talarico—Literary Citizenship and Hippocamp 2019
125 Plays6 years ago
"I like to joke that this is my investment in literary citizenship," says Donna Talarico (@donnatalarico).
Hey, CNFers, Donna Talarico makes her return to the show after two years to promote this year's Hippocamp, a creative nonfiction conference.
This is a shorter-than-normal interview, but it's got the goods nevertheless.
Subscribe to the show if you haven't already and consider leaving a kind review on Apple Podcasts. Share with a friend. That's how this spreads.
Keep the conversation going on Twitter @CNFPod and Instagram @cnfpod.
Thanks also to Goucher College's MFA in Nonfiction, Bay Path University's MFA in Creative Nonfiction, and Riverteeth for supporting this show.
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Transcript
Podcast Transition and Anxiety
00:00:00
Speaker
I tell ya, I am real nervous this week. Real nervous. There's two reasons. One, I switched podcast hosts. And I'm waiting on a 301 redirect from the old host to the new one. Meaning without this redirect, I don't know if the legacy subscribers will transfer over. And this means that the OG CNF-ers might have to resubscribe.
00:00:29
Speaker
And
Sponsored MFA Programs
00:00:30
Speaker
I'll save the other reason for after the sponsor reads because CNF, the Creative Nonfiction Podcast, the greatest podcast in the world, is sponsored by Goucher College's MFA in Nonfiction. The Goucher MFA is a two-year low residency program. Online classes let you learn from anywhere, while on-campus residencies allow you to hone your craft with accomplished mentors who have Pulitzer Prizes and best-selling books to their names.
00:00:55
Speaker
The program boasts a nationwide network of students, faculty, and alumni, which has published 140 books and counting. You'll get opportunities to meet literary agents and learn the ins and outs of the publishing journey. Visit goucher.edu slash nonfiction to start your journey now. Take your writing to the next level and go from hopeful to published in Goucher's MFA in nonfiction.
00:01:19
Speaker
And Creative Nonfiction podcast, wouldn't you know, is also brought to you by Bay Path University. Discover your story? Bay Path is the first and only university to offer a no-residency, fully accredited MFA, focusing exclusively on Creative Nonfiction.
00:01:37
Speaker
a tenseful or part-time from anywhere in the world. Anywhere in the world. In the Bay Path MFA, you'll find small online classes and a dynamic and supportive community. You'll master the techniques of good writing, from acclaimed authors and editors, learn about publishing and teaching through professional internships, and complete a master's thesis that will form the foundation of your memoir, memoir.
00:02:00
Speaker
or collection of personal essays. Special elective courses include contemporary women's stories, travel and food writing, family histories, spiritual writing, and an optional week-long summer residency in Ireland. With guest writers, including Andre Devis III and Houdmiya Gallagher and others, start dates in late August and January. Find out more at baypath.edu slash MFA.
00:02:25
Speaker
I'll tell you something, I'm Brendan O'Mara, and this is how we start this podcast.
Preparing for Hippo Camp 2019
00:02:30
Speaker
There are three constants in life, death, taxes, and rifts.
00:02:45
Speaker
Well, like I was saying kind of before, in this game, in this line of work, asking an audience to go through multiple steps is a big ask. You know what it is, you've got how much time do you really have and then to have and to give some of that time over to this enterprise. I don't take that for granted, so
00:03:06
Speaker
It's a big reason why I'm kind of nervous about this redirect thing, to have to ask you to resubscribe if some of you, you know, it's a mess. It's a big reason, it's kind of a, it's causing some gray hairs in the beard. If I had to tell the OGs I'd have to resubscribe, that's a reason to say, you know, like, eh, I've had enough with this guy. You know, what a schmall. We'll see. If the download numbers remain the same, relatively constant, then we'll be okay. But if you're new to the show, be sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.
00:03:36
Speaker
For those who have stuck around, you're the social network. Share this with your friends and encourage them to share it with theirs. That's the only way I want this show to grow. Not through paying Facebook or Instagram with sponsored ads that just interrupt your feeds. It's kind of gross. I don't like it. I want it to be hand to hand.
00:03:57
Speaker
here, enroll in this journey and take part in the community, it means way more if you share and engage.
Engaging Listeners
00:04:07
Speaker
Head over to BrendanOmero.com, hey hey, for show notes and to subscribe to the monthly newsletter where I share cool links to what I've read, several book recommendations,
00:04:15
Speaker
And what you might've missed from the world of the podcast once a month, no spam can't beat it. Okay. So there was one other reason, right? Then I'm kind of freaking out and, and I'm putting the final touches on my talk for Hippo Camp 2019 and Lancaster next week. By the time this drops, it'll be, you know, five days or so away.
00:04:40
Speaker
It's a creative non-fiction conference in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, and my talk is Power Up Your Network with Podcasting. It's basically 10 lessons I've learned from nearly 200 podcasts. I'm aiming for about 45-minute talk, 15-minute Q&A, and I'm kind of gunning for that 15 Q&A because I can handle that. But that means that each point that I want to make is about four minutes and change a piece, and that has to be kind of an engaging story.
00:05:09
Speaker
I like getting up in front of people. I don't mind that. I like talking in front of people. It's kind of fun, but this is a different beast. On top of that, I'm flying cross country on a red eye and seeing some family when I'm back East, all of which is not relaxing. You know this. And I've got to train this person at work to do what I do and they're not quite up to speed. So I'm just a cluster right now. I think you can tell even recording this, I'm like kind of freaking out in the middle of this recording, but
00:05:39
Speaker
It's like what my wife says. The wife who doesn't listen to the podcast. Do one thing in front of you. Finish it and move on. When I think of that advice, I can feel my blood pressure kind of drop to like sub-hypertension levels. So it's a good task for any of us in this crazy workaday world.
00:05:57
Speaker
So anyway, hey, I want to give another shout out to someone else. It's kind of a promotional support thing. They're sharing the show on their Facebook feed to bring the show to market, so to speak. It's
Guest Appearance by Donna Talarico
00:06:11
Speaker
at Riverteeth.
00:06:13
Speaker
great literary journal doing great creative non-fiction personal essays memoir and they have a great book contest and everything so I just want to give a shout out to Riverteeth go subscribe to them great journal do great work over there and yes promotional support go like their Facebook page and you might just see a link to this podcast on their Facebook feed
00:06:34
Speaker
How about that? So here we are, and speaking of Hippo Camp, I've got Donna Talarico making her triumphant return to the podcast. It's been two years since she first joined me on the show, and she's here for a shorty to promote this year's Hippo Camp. And it's her fifth, and let's just get into it. This is a short interview, but you know, it's a good one. Sometimes you don't need a very long one. So here's my conversation with Donna Talarico.
00:07:11
Speaker
Oh, my goodness. OK. Wasn't really on for five, so I can still remember them all. The first year we had Lee Kupkins, who basically they say is the godfather of creative nonfiction. He is the one that kind of popularized the term creative nonfiction that we use. And for those who don't know, he's also the founder of Creative Nonfiction Magazine and the Creative Nonfiction Foundation out of Pittsburgh.
00:07:38
Speaker
And then we also had Jane Friedman, the first year, who was our closing keynote and talked about the business side of publishing. In year two, we had Ashley C. Ford as our opening keynoter. We had Mary Carr, and we also had Dave Cameron, who I know from the higher education marketing world, who does a lot of work-life balance stuff. Then we had Tobias Wolf,
00:08:08
Speaker
Beverly D'Onofrio and, oh gosh, now I'm, now I need to look it up. See, I jinxed myself by saying, I remember all of them. But I didn't realize that you had like kind of several, maybe different tiered keynote. Well, the first year we had two, then the second year we added an opening keynote. Then the third year, which was 2017, which is the one I just messed up on.
00:08:35
Speaker
But that was Beverly D'Onofrio was our opening keynote. Then Tobias Wolf was our evening Saturday keynote. And then Dinty Moore, who is also really well known in the nonfiction world and the founder of Brevity magazine. He was our closing keynote. And then last year we had Beth Kephart, Abigail Thomas, and Ama Marfo. And Ama again is not necessarily from the literary world, but more of like the creativity, work-life balance world.
00:09:04
Speaker
Every other year, we like to bring in somebody who's not necessarily a writer, but who can inspire writers to make more time and live a better life. So that's what we had in the past. So this year, Nick Flan and who else is joining the cohort? Yeah, and Jackie Leiden, she is a memoirist. And her book was out in the 90s. It was called Daughter of the Queen of Sheba. It was a mother-daughter memoir. Her mom had some mental illness issues
00:09:34
Speaker
But she also was a journalist for NPR for more than 40 years, reporting everything from the war zone to just everyday news. And I thought, in 2016, or since 2016, journalism has just become more and more important. And so I thought it would be a really cool idea to have the perspectives of a journalist at Hippocamp.
00:09:59
Speaker
What does that meant for you to be able to get the likes of Lee, Mary Carr, Tobias Wolf, and Nick Flynn? I mean, the list goes on. Yeah, it's been really amazing. And some of the higher level speakers, we have to go through a speaker's bureau, but they still have to say yes. We still have to tell them about the event. And usually it's just a resounding yes will come. We've heard about it.
00:10:28
Speaker
And Lee, the first year, I was a little nervous because, you know, he's the founder of Creative Nonfiction Magazine. And here, you know, we're an online magazine that just started in 2011, you know, so not as old as Creative Nonfiction Magazine, but he was just like, I love what you guys are doing. And so it was just really great to know that they've heard of us and they believe in what we're doing. And, you know, the community is just so great.
00:10:57
Speaker
And I just loved it so much. What do you know now that you wish that you knew in year one? Writers like to procrastinate. So, um, so what I learned is to start promoting the conference a little later, um, just so people aren't tired of hearing about it, um, to open up the registration a little later, because we know that people, you know, aren't registering until the month before.
00:11:24
Speaker
kind of walk us through how you're organizing your life around this and planning for this event. Yeah, thank you for recognizing that. It is a lot of work. You're also a writer with a day job that does a really great thing for the writing community with your podcast. So I know you're no stranger to having a day job and fitting in something like this.
00:11:49
Speaker
Yeah, I have a content marketing agency and I primarily work for higher education. So luckily, even though I have a full-time job, I'm able to structure that around my schedule so I can work in the late evening. I would say early morning, but let's be real, I never get up early. But that's the idea. So I can still be available for client calls and things during the regular day, but normally I
00:12:19
Speaker
I know what's coming up in the week ahead and what conference calls I might have. So I do a lot of my hippocampus magazine and books work as well as the conference work in the evening and on the weekends. But yeah, we start planning a full year ahead. So by the time the conference happens in a couple of weeks, August 23rd, we'll already have next year's booked with the venue. And we also might have some work done on the keynote speakers.
00:12:49
Speaker
So there's kind of like phases. So the first thing we do is put out the call for speaker proposals. And then that kind of just that's open for about three months. So the work really begins once we select the speakers and start building the website. And then there's a pretty big lull between between that. And right now it's also crunch time. So it's, you know, I tried to
00:13:15
Speaker
say no to client work or get all my projects done. So I'd have most of August to work on Hippo Camp. That way I'm not working, you know, messing with work deadlines. But I still need to put food on the table. So I kind of front loaded my work in June and July to take a little time off. But of course, it didn't go as planned. So I still have some client projects I'm working on at the moment. But, but yeah, so we just kind of fill it in. And the stuff that Kevin does is also
00:13:45
Speaker
really as we get closer to the conference. And we joke because sometimes we'll be at home and I'm like, hey, did you do this yet? So it's hard to separate like marriage and conference duties. So we made a rule this year that we will only talk about the conference, like if we're out at breakfast and we'll say, hey, this is our breakfast, but this is our meeting. Or we'll just have set times. That way we're separating it from our real life too, because that can kind of get a little crazy sometimes.
00:14:15
Speaker
To be honest, we could grow our team a little more. It's really just me and Kevin spearheading everything. As far as the website goes, that's pretty much still just me, speaker communication. We do have a volunteer Louise who has helped out with our book sale for all five years, but she kind of like took on managing it.
00:14:42
Speaker
And she set up a system and we kind of just like turn that over to her. But this year we brought her on early and she worked with the debut authors and the publishers and distributors to get all the books in and also with the attendees who want to have books at the conference, two other book sale tables. So we kind of brought her on to help with that a little earlier. Um, and the past couple of years, I've had some interns from Rosemont college,
00:15:11
Speaker
and also Bay Path University that have helped with some of the marketing type things like writing social media posts. And we had a great intern this year, Katie, who took over writing the blog preview posts. So the, um, the preview posts that we, that, that you did, um, and our other speakers did Katie kind of put those together in the format of blog posts. Um, and then onsite we have a ton of volunteers that help out. We have people that are in each session room that introduced the speaker and,
00:15:40
Speaker
give time cues, you know, to make sure everybody's on time because if one session runs over, that can affect the next session. So we just, you know, make sure the timing's right. We have registration desk volunteers, and then we have runners who are just there to help with things like this person needs a cord or this person needs something. So we have a really great boots on the ground team. But now that we're about, now that this will be the fifth year, we really are a well-oiled machine.
00:16:08
Speaker
And it's been hard to ask for help when we didn't exactly know what we needed and when we needed it, but now we do. So I think next year we're going to grow the planning committee a little bigger. Oh, and I did mention we also have volunteers that help read the proposals and help build that. And a lot of those are people on the regular magazine staff who can't necessarily travel to Hippo Camp, but they want to help in some way. So they help with the proposal rating.
00:16:36
Speaker
Almost done with the fifth one. What would you say is getting easier for you now than was in the early scramble to get this off the ground? I think the communication with the speakers. Now I kind of have it down pat with what the questions they have most often are and even with the attendees, what they ask the most often. So I build that now into the website and into emails and into the confirmation email.
00:17:05
Speaker
And I've noticed this year, we have barely had any questions about, you know, about this or is parking included or what are the meals like because we've done a better job of setting expectations and educating the audience throughout the process.
00:17:23
Speaker
You know, we're about two, no, we're about 10 days out. I know. It's crazy. 10, 11 days, roughly. What does
Conference Speakers and Topics
00:17:32
Speaker
the level of sort of worry and anxiety look like for you a week out from the conference? Well, this year is the latest that we've put the program to print. And when I say that, I mean, it hasn't gone to print yet.
00:17:51
Speaker
but we always wait until a little later in the game because there could unfortunately be a cancellation with a speaker and we do have some alternate speakers. So for example, it breaks my heart to say this, but Elaine Johnson and her husband Hess, we're gonna present on memoir structure, but Hess is having some health issues so they're not able to make it. So we have, yeah, and she's been at Hippo Camp every year
00:18:19
Speaker
And so, but health is more important, family is more important. So it's bittersweet, but Athena Dixon is going to fill in that space and she's going to do something about imposter syndrome. So, which is fantastic. She's been a speaker the past couple of years. So we're excited to have her back and that she's an alternate. So it's things like that too, that to have speakers waiting in the wings who we know might already be attending any way that we could ask
00:18:48
Speaker
you know, could you fill in for somebody? It's like, what was the inspiration and your vision for this in year one, your expectations and where you thought this would go and maybe how long you thought you would even be able to do it? Yeah, that's a great question. As I might have said on a previous podcast, I love conferences and I go to marketing conferences for my day job, which is
00:19:12
Speaker
the web and web marketing for higher education, which I was just in Oregon again a couple years ago. I know, I wish, I pissed that I missed you. Yeah, I know. And I was like, how far is Eugene? But, but I ended up going up to Washington to see Twin Peaks stuff on my day off. But, but yeah, so there was just such an energy about these marketing conferences that I went to. And they were more in the vein of professional development conferences, not academic conferences.
00:19:41
Speaker
like AWP is kind of a little bit of both, but it leans academic. And I really just like the idea of peers teaching peers and one person or maybe like a group, like our partners getting in front of a room and talking about what they're passionate about and that somebody doesn't need to have, you know, not everybody has to be a keynote speaker. Not everybody has to be a well-known author. Everybody has something to share.
00:20:08
Speaker
And that's what I envisioned for Hippo Camp. And that's why I wanted to have just the proposal, open proposal system, kind of like for attendees by attendees. And that was the vision I had. And that's what we got. And it's just more than I could have ever imagined. One of the other, and I always forget to mention this, but it's really, really important. And I can't believe I always forget to mention it, but
00:20:33
Speaker
In this day and age, it's really hard for an independent literary magazine to sustain itself. I mean, one that's not getting support from an institution or one that's not commercial in nature that has a print magazine and has educational components to go with it. But at Hippo Campus, we wanted to offer contributor honorariums. And how do you do that when we're a free magazine? So the conference also was started as a way to maybe
00:21:03
Speaker
I don't want to say fundraiser because we're not a nonprofit, but for lack of a better word for a fundraiser to generate some revenue so we can put that back into the magazine. Because as you know, and a lot of other listeners who might run their own magazines or endeavors know a lot of things comes out of the editor's pocket. And that, that has been the way it's been since the beginning. And luckily I have a life partner who's okay with that.
00:21:30
Speaker
You know, we want the conference to break even, that's first and foremost, but we do want it to eventually have some extra that we can put back into the magazine. So that's where the question comes in. How long can we do this conference by just breaking even? I knew I wanted to make it to five years because, I don't know, it might be arbitrary, but like five and 10, it just kind of means something like those milestone numbers or like making it to issue 100. And we also do already have it
00:22:00
Speaker
you know, spoiler alert, we do have next year reserved. So we will definitely go to six years, but we are keeping a closer eye on the investment of time and, and more importantly, personal funds. I like to joke and say this is just my investment in literary citizenship. You know, and then the first year Kevin and I eloped, we didn't have like a, even a wedding. It was just the two of us at a courthouse. So, um, or not even a courthouse, but like, uh,
00:22:28
Speaker
like a Justice local JP's office in a little strip. Yeah, it was like a little strip mall. I love it. Yeah, so we joked that the water fountain was our free bar. You know, we did put some of our own money into the first year, and we just joked that, hey, this is the money that we would have spent on our wedding reception, but now it's a reception at a conference. So we kind of justify it by that. But I always joke that if I did have an accountant, you'd say, you're making too many risks. But I think the risks are worth it.
00:23:00
Speaker
And of course with something like AWP with 15,000 people taking over giant cities and being the sprawling monster of a thing, is that something you see Hippocam doing or do you just you want to keep it as tight as possible, tight and nichey and intimate as possible? Yes, tight, nichey and intimate. That is a great way to put it.
00:23:27
Speaker
you know, to grow a little bit so we can be sustainable. We might try to get up to 275 to 300 attendees, but I do, I don't think we would want to get bigger than that. And I also think that, you know, keeping the focus on nonfiction is really important, not necessarily going into other genres, but we have been the past, you know, since the beginning, having set, have sessions about promotion, publicity and the writing life.
00:23:55
Speaker
So it's really important for us to include that as well. So that way, not everything is just about writing and the craft of writing, but, you know, some things you need to get your work out there and to be able to sustain that balance of having a job, having a family, having commitments, and having your writing life. What, in your opinion, makes for a really good presentation that really engages you on a level, and by extension, you, it probably engages the entire audience.
00:24:25
Speaker
We do a lot of post-conference surveys and we ask attendees of every session to fill out a survey too, because it's really important to us to know what the attendees like and what they don't like and what resonates with them. So we do take that into consideration, you know, the results from the survey for the next year's planning. But what I think makes a great presentation is something with practical tips. Like you were saying, the AWP session you went to about planning an event,
00:24:54
Speaker
You remember that because you left with practical ideas and things that you could implement right away. So first and foremost, I think that's great. Something that's not just somebody who's reading off slides. It's to your point of literary citizenship. It's not enough just to share your own thing. You need to participate and show that you're willing to give and take and to share and to just take part in something that's a little bit bigger than yourself.
00:25:23
Speaker
And the real thing is, if you do that with authenticity, you are going to be a little more popular with a little more standing in the community as well. If you do that, if you contribute and actually have an abundant mindset going in. Absolutely. And people can tell. And I think that's what people love about HippoCamp is, for the most part, that's who our speakers are. And I'm glad that we're attracting those kind of speakers.
00:25:52
Speaker
You know, and maybe every so often someone comes and maybe it's not the right conference for them so they don't come back and that's fine. You know, we really have a set type of person we want to attract both speaker and attendee. You know, for instance, you know, one of the surveys once we made the mention that it's like a for attendee by attendee and somebody said,
00:26:13
Speaker
I thought this was, experts were going to be sharing what they learned, not just attendees. So it's like, you're missing the point. You know, everybody has an expert, you know, or everybody has some expertise in something. And then another example was our first year. There's somebody who lives local to our area who couldn't come to the conference. She has a book out, I think she self published it. And she said, can I sell my book at your conference? So she dropped off the books and left and she didn't sell any because she wasn't there.
00:26:42
Speaker
And not that this conference is about selling books, but she was just perplexed. Why did I sell any books? And I said, well, because it's not a book sale, really. It's more of a conference where attendees can have their book for sale. So there's a difference. So yeah, it's just being involved is so important.
00:26:58
Speaker
And this will go up roughly a few days before. And so it's going to be kind of a writerly procrastination thing. Great. I think at last check, there were like 31 seats. By the time this goes up, hopefully those all be gone. But if they're not, what can people do? Where can they go to maybe snag one of those last seats for this year's conference? Sure. The conference website is hippocamp2019.hippocampismagazine.
00:27:28
Speaker
and there's a registration button in the top navigation as well as in the middle of the page. And depending on when they see it, right now registration is 4.89, but it's going to jump to 5.29 for like the day of life people are to register on site. So what I'm going to do is there's going to be a promo code, CNF pod where somebody can save $99. So we're going to do that for listeners of the podcast. Yeah. So that way if they do get the,
00:27:57
Speaker
last minute one, they're basically still getting it for the regular price. So yeah, so feel free to add that on the podcast notes, but we would love to see everybody there.
Promo Codes and Future Plans
00:28:07
Speaker
And if somebody is listening to this after it's archived, we'll be going again in 2020.
00:28:13
Speaker
Oh, that's awesome. Well, cool, Donna. I can't wait to get out there and get my hands dirty at the conference this year. It'll be my first one. I'm pretty stoked to go and take part. We're so excited to have you, and just we're genuinely excited that you're going to be in Lancaster as well. Yeah, it'll be great to hang out and take part in this awesome thing you've built. So yeah, best of luck, and we'll be in touch, Donna. All right, thank you so much, Brendan. We'll see you soon. All right, take care. Bye. Bye.
00:28:45
Speaker
It is hot in the studio today. I am sweating bullets. You know, sometimes a short interview feels good, right? Donna's got it going on. She's got a day job. She writes. She runs this conference. I tell you, if you focus, you can do just about anything. You know, with a reason, like, you can't get drafted into the NBA on will. Hey, you know the drill. Subscribe to the show and keep the conversation going on Twitter, at cnfpod and at Brendan O'Meara on Twitter.
00:29:13
Speaker
at cnfpod on instagram you enroll in the journey by subscribing and we hang and split a six pack on twitter instagram facebook and i love it when you comment and reach out if you have questions or concerns email the show creative non-fiction podcast at gmail.com or just ping me on social maybe i'll answer on the air anything i can do to help we're all in the swamp together we're all wrestling gators out here
00:29:38
Speaker
Thanks again to Goucher, Bay Path, River Teeth, and also Laura Tillman for editing the interview portion of this podcast. If you think she did a good job, go hire her for paid work. LauraTillman.net is her website and I'm sure you can go contact her there.
00:30:24
Speaker
, she all right guys seen efforts