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Exploring the Lake District Fells with Jenny Bushell
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In this episode of the UKRunChat Podcast, Michelle speaks with Jenny Bushell, a Cumbria-based trail and fell runner, coach, and author of the new Lake District Trail and Fell Running Guide. Jenny shares her journey from Couch to 5K to ultra-running and fell racing in her home county. We dive into the inspiration and process behind her new book, which features 40 carefully curated routes across the Lake District, from beginner-friendly loops to full-day mountain adventures.
Jenny offers insights on the differences between trail and fell running, building confidence on descents, how to approach hill climbs, and the essential safety kit to carry in the fells. She also explains how to use poles efficiently and why effort-based pacing matters. Plus, we explore her upcoming challenges, including the Dragon’s Back Race and the Seven Valleys.
Highlights:
- Jenny’s transition from road races to mountain adventures
- How the guidebook came together and the stories behind the routes
- The difference between trail and fell running
- Tips for tackling steep climbs and technical descents
- Kit advice and safety essentials for the Lake District
- Inclusive challenge routes from the Espresso Round to the Bob Graham
Links:
- 🗺️ The Lake District Trail and Fell Running Guide – Available via Inspired by Lakeland and local bookshops
- 🌄 Jenny’s coaching & adventures: jennybushelladventures.co.uk
- 📸 Follow Jenny: @jennybushelladventures
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Jenny Bushel and Her Guidebook
00:00:00
UKRunChat
Run Chat Podcast. I'm Michelle and today we're heading into the Fells, the Lake District with Cumbria-based trail and fell runner, mountain leader and coach Jenny Bushel.
00:00:11
UKRunChat
Jenny's just released the Lake District Trail and Fell Running Guide, which is a beautifully crafted collection of 40 routes through one of the UK's most iconic running landscapes. So we're really excited to have you with us today, Jenny. Welcome.
00:00:24
Jenny
Thank you. Thanks so much for having me.
Jenny's Running Journey and Achievements
00:00:26
UKRunChat
So would you just introduce yourself briefly? I've given a very brief introduction there, but tell us a little bit about yourself and how you kind of got into running.
00:00:34
Jenny
um i Well, I was an adult beginner runner. um It was maybe about 12 years ago now. I was living down in London at the time. um And I'd say i was just, I was looking for something. I felt I needed to be a bit healthier. um And I just, I didn't feel very healthy kind of body or mind. so and I just knew I needed to do something about it and running seemed like the easiest option that, you know, you don't need, well, but at the time I thought you don't need much kids, lots changed there, but it seemed quite simple.
00:01:01
UKRunChat
Well, yes.
00:01:03
Jenny
And so, you know, I did couch to 5k and then I got into park run and, you know, you know how it goes, sort of one thing leads to another.
00:01:04
UKRunChat
but
00:01:11
Jenny
um And so I built up to running marathons and sort of, you know, I, I was really, ah just surprised myself a lot in that. i I turned out actually, if I worked hard at it, I could be quite quick.
00:01:23
Jenny
Um, so I went for me, I think at my slowest, my park run was about 40 minutes and I went down at one point to sub 20. Um, and just, you know i never thought that somebody like me would be able to kind of run those kinds of times. So that was, it was really exciting.
Career Transition and Coaching Business
00:01:40
Jenny
um And then i think it was maybe 2018, I entered a trail race up here in Cumbria, which is where I'm from. um it was It was an ultra race. So my first trail race was an ultra.
00:01:52
UKRunChat
Oh my goodness, what were you thinking?
00:01:54
Jenny
I know. I had absolutely no idea what I was doing. I remember the week of the race, I learned that people had these things called hydration vests that they ran with.
00:02:03
UKRunChat
Right.
00:02:04
Jenny
And I was going to take a backpack. um And so I went out and bought myself a hydration vest and wore it for the first time on the race. You know, everything that they say not to do, i did. and just And it sort of started a new chapter in my kind of running life, really, I suppose. And I got more and more into the trails um And then i had a big life change in it was COVID time.
00:02:26
Jenny
Basically, i I took I used to be a teacher um and I took a new job that just wasn't right for me for many reasons.
00:02:27
UKRunChat
Thank you.
00:02:33
Jenny
And it it gave me the push. I've been thinking about doing something with running for a while. And it just gave me the the kind of push that I needed to be like, come on, it's time to give the coaching. ago. So moved back Cumbria and I was unemployed and didn't have anywhere to live and it was still COVID and it was all a very kind of strange time, but set up a business and we're about four and a half years on now.
00:02:57
Jenny
And so in that time, I sort of got much more into fell running as well as trail running, which is kind of really, you know, coming up here.
00:03:03
UKRunChat
Thank you.
00:03:06
Jenny
um Got my coaching qualifications, started the business, um qualified as a mountain leader, which means that I'm qualified to kind of take people into the mountains and um kind of, yeah, have a great day out.
00:03:18
Jenny
um Yeah. and ah And then I actually last year started a second business, um which is like kind of my my coaching is very bespoke and it's one-to-one and it's all the kind of personal.
00:03:29
Jenny
um I also run kind of workshops and trail running events and holidays. So more kind of like group
Trail and Fell Running Insights
00:03:36
Jenny
things. I just, I wanted to do something that was more around kind of bringing groups together and a bit of teaching as well because i missed that aspect of what i used to do so yeah it's been a bit of ah a kind of a mad journey but it's it's been it's been wonderful
00:03:43
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:03:50
UKRunChat
Yeah, that sounds brilliant. and We were just talking before we recorded, weren't we, that you've just had, we're recording on the Monday after the Lakeland 50 and 100 weekend, and you've just had a few of your athletes do really well, haven't you?
00:03:59
Jenny
yeah
00:04:02
Jenny
Yeah, it was ah just such a brilliant weekend. I had some yeah somebody doing their first late than 50. She did really well. um Somebody that got her first sub 16 to qualify for the 100 after I think four previous attempts trying to get it.
00:04:15
Jenny
And somebody who finished the 100 on her first attempt at it, which was incredible. And she made it just sub 40 hours. So she was out for you know almost the longest possible time on the course. Just yeah so proud of them all.
00:04:28
UKRunChat
Yeah, that's fantastic. Well done to them and and to you for helping to get them there. and So talk to us a little bit about running in the Lake District. Have I ever been running in the Lake District? I'm trying to think. i think my foot In fact, yes, my first ever run when my husband took me out, we weren't married at the time, and and I think I went for a run around Kendall, which is just um it's just kind of south of the Lake District, isn't it?
00:04:47
Jenny
Lovely.
00:04:51
Jenny
Yeah.
00:04:51
UKRunChat
And I remember he took me up a hill and kind of across the river, and I remember crying. It was my first ever run, and it was horrible.
00:04:55
Jenny
Hmm.
00:04:56
UKRunChat
But obviously didn't put me off that much. don't think I've ever been up and done any runs around that. done lots of walking. So just talk to us a little bit about how it's different and, you know, people who've never experienced it before.
00:05:10
Jenny
Yeah, so I guess, you know, one of the reasons that the book is called the Trail and Fell Running Guide is that there are, although it's quite, the two things blend into each other quite a lot. And I discussed this in the book about the sort of, is there a difference between trail and fell running? Does it matter? like Is it important that there's a difference?
00:05:27
Jenny
and And there is, but I'd say most people up here who run on the trails, also run on the fell and people who are fell runners kind of consider the themselves fell runners primarily they also run on the trails so it's all quite blended um trail running tends to be more kind of defined paths i would say so tracks built paths um and trail races up here are often structured around kind of valleys and passes so you'll run so i mean there's you know there's a really a race that's really popular now that started a few years ago called the 13 valleys
00:05:38
UKRunChat
yeah
00:05:58
Jenny
um And the construction of that course is that it goes through all of the what they consider to be the 13 main valleys of the Lake District. And it does that by kind of mainly going through the valley bottoms and then it will hop over a pass between two big hills at the end of a valley.
00:06:12
Jenny
And that's very much what the Lakeland 150 courses do as well. They kind of wiggle through the valley. There's a lot of elevation gain still in them, but they wiggle through the valleys.
00:06:19
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:06:21
Jenny
And then they'll go over a pass into the next valley and kind of keep doing that. i Fell running tends to be more um kind of more going for the summits is quite common in a fell race. So and one of the key differences is that and trail races are kind of almost, I think, completely exclusively there on what you call like a defined course. So there's a set route that you have to follow. You have a GPX trail races, encourage the use of GPX watches to keep you safe.
00:06:49
Jenny
And things like running poles are really encouraged as well. In a fell race, you're not allowed any navigational support at all. So you have to be able to navigate to enter a fell race. You're not allowed to use your watch.
00:07:00
Jenny
And the structure of the race is that you've got certain places that you have to go. so you might have to hit a particular five summits, say, but the way that you get there is entirely up to you. So you can choose your lines.
00:07:12
Jenny
And part of the skill of really, really good fell runners is that they know those lines like the back of their hands. So they've been out and they've wrecked and they've done the race for many years and they absolutely know, you know, the perfect line,
00:07:24
Jenny
to get to each of the checkpoints on the route. ah You can't use poles. There's a couple of exceptions, but mainly in a fell race, you can't use poles. and And the terrain tends to be a little bit rougher. Again, not exclusively like, you know, some of the tracks and paths up here are really technical and difficult to run on.
00:07:41
Jenny
And then sometimes fell terrain is amazing because it'll just be like short, smooth grass. And it's, you know, really, really lovely to run on. So there's no kind of hard and fast either way but yeah fell running often the paths are less defined you might be just on a kind of you know a trod they say that's kind of just been worn into the ground by passage of feet and a lot of the runs that are in the book are really a blend of both so you know you might have a bit of a trail section to get onto the hill and then there'll be a little bit of what you'd probably call fell running and then it might end again you know coming down a track or something that you'd say okay that's more like trail running
00:08:16
UKRunChat
Yeah, oh no, that's a really helpful explanation. Thank you. So the book then, what inspired you to
The Making of Jenny's Guidebook
00:08:21
UKRunChat
write it? You must have had to do like loads and loads of research for it because you've not been up there, you know, that long really, have you?
00:08:28
Jenny
Yeah, well, so I grew up in Cumbria. I um actually live in the village that I grew up in and now.
00:08:34
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:08:35
Jenny
um And so I was thinking about this the other day as to kind of where the roots came from. And I realised when I, well, when I sent a copy to my parents and they said, oh, you know, there's so many memories in here.
00:08:47
UKRunChat
so
00:08:47
Jenny
And I look back and i thought, actually, yeah, you know, quite a lot of, particularly the shorter routes towards the beginning of the book, A lot of them are inspired by things that we did as kids, you know, kind of dog walks and weekend adventures.
00:08:59
Jenny
um So it's lovely to have that kind of like the very first route in the book and is a place called High Dam, which is a little reservoir the south edge of the National Park. And it's a three kilometre loop around the reservoir. So it's really designed for people that have got, you know, little or no experience of trail running and just want a taster experience.
00:09:18
Jenny
And it's very easy to navigate because you just follow the water all the way around. And that's somewhere that I've been going for you know nearly 40 years and with my family and then with friends. And so was lovely to be able to include something that had such sort of like personal connection.
00:09:33
Jenny
And then, yeah, lots of the others are things that since I since I moved back up, which is yeah four and a half years ago, I think. um just lots more exploration, I suppose.
00:09:45
Jenny
And being back here kind of enabled me to
00:09:47
UKRunChat
Okay.
00:09:49
Jenny
get out more often, you know, I can go and and as well, because I'm self-employed and I can manage my own time, you know, as often as I can fit it in, I can go and run in the hills. um And in a way, the book was a lovely kind of way to be able to justify that a little bit more because I could always be like, oh, well you know, I've got to go and do that run in that lovely place because I've got to research that route.
00:10:10
Jenny
um So especially some of the longer ones were things that kind of as I got more experienced and my I guess my kind of adult knowledge of the lakes expanded. um I was able to put together some routes that I think are really kind of interesting and and different.
00:10:24
Jenny
So I'm hoping as well that, you know, even somebody who's a really experienced runner and knows the landscape really well up here picks it up, they might still go, oh, yeah, I hadn't thought of connecting that in that way.
00:10:35
Jenny
um Yeah, fingers crossed.
00:10:37
UKRunChat
Yeah, I know there's there's some really nice routes in there just flicking through. There's a few that I'd like to have a go at myself, maybe maybe walking to start with. Talk to us about running them. So because you were relatively, you've not been running that long, really.
00:10:49
UKRunChat
What was your first kind of proper fell run like?
00:10:49
Jenny
That's a really good question. I think I probably got into fell running maybe a little bit sort of before I should have done in a way. And I was kind of in that category of people who kind of didn't really realise that there was such a difference. So I think maybe the first few fell races I entered, so it was a little bit overwhelming and I, you know, I'm i'm still, I'm a very slow fell runner. I'm often at the, you know, right at the back of the pack in a fell race, which I kind of, I find a really helpful experience coaching wise, because i've got that sort of spread of, you know, if I enter a trail race, I'll be quite forward in the field. But if I enter a fell race, I'm going to be with the back markers for most of the day and just,
00:11:37
Jenny
being able to, you know, relate to people who are having that experience that I'm coaching is is really helpful. um It's yeah, ah you always can't avoid it up here. So if you're running kind of in the hills regularly, at some point you're going to start running fell routes, even if you didn't really intend to um There's loads of clubs and they all do social runs and, you know, some of them have sort of pace guides and some of them don't, but there will always be a group kind of that you can run with at your pace.
00:12:07
Jenny
You know, if people are kind of moving up or there's actually lots of runners that live in the, you know, not in the lakes will have a second claim. fell club and you know, they might come up on holiday and go for some social runs or race in the club vest.
00:12:19
Jenny
So the fell clubs here are really, really welcoming and supportive of beginners.
00:12:25
UKRunChat
Yeah, that's that's great. So do do you kind of run as a club? Are you often out on your own?
00:12:30
Jenny
um I mostly run on my own. i am a member of a club um and I do do, you know, when I put that vest on, I feel really proud to be part of that club because it's a really, well, I all the fell clubs are ah made up of really amazing runners, but yeah, i I love racing in my club vest, but I do often have the experience, you know, I'll show up at a race in my vest and I can see people going, who who is that person?
00:12:52
Jenny
I've never seen her at training sessions.
00:12:53
UKRunChat
Yeah, we don't know them.
00:12:56
Jenny
I don't get to training sessions very often, but yeah, yeah feel very proud of the colours.
00:13:01
UKRunChat
Yeah, no, that's great. um So, I mean, was there a moment then or or a run that you did that planted the seed for putting the book together? prompted it?
00:13:13
Jenny
I don't remember one. I mean, I do sort of remember,
00:13:20
Jenny
yeah, thinking, kind of having the idea. And thinking, i you know, I'd really love to write a book. I like I like words like i I've always kind of enjoyed writing and ah do a lot of, you know, through my business. i one of the things that I really enjoy is kind of the long form content. So I like blogging and I like kind of, you know, writing yeah newsletters and things like that. So.
00:13:45
Jenny
I knew that was something I enjoyed. And then when I saw it started to think, well, what roots would I put in? And then got excited about you know that and that and that, you know, and sort of it started to come together. And yeah. and And then, ah yeah I don't think there was one specific moment. It just sort of slowly grew. And then before I knew it, it was sort of happening. And I was like, well, i I am. I'm now writing a book.
00:14:07
UKRunChat
yeah
00:14:07
Jenny
Here we go. And it took, you know, it took two years from the kind of, I think when I started seriously working on it to to publication, basically because there's 40 routes in there and I had to go and run all of them.
00:14:21
Jenny
And some of them are really long and they're scattered all over the Lake District. So just fitting in, just even just traveling to some of them, running the route, writing it up, you know, it took, ah yeah, maybe longer than I expected in the end.
00:14:35
UKRunChat
But great, great fun to research, I imagine.
00:14:38
Jenny
Oh, yeah, definitely. Yeah.
00:14:40
UKRunChat
Yeah, so what what do you look for in a good route then, Jonny?
00:14:43
Jenny
And it's a really interesting question. I think when I started, i was trying to kind of make all of the routes a bit of everything. So I kind of was going, oh, you know, that would be a really good route because it's got a bit of trail there and it's got a bit of fell there and it's got a bit of like really challenging terrain.
00:14:52
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:15:01
Jenny
And then it's got a really lovely, smooth descent sort of thing. and so I did a few routes that what were like that and then my publisher said are you sure that people are going to want all of the routes to be a bit of everything he said would it not be better to have you know this is a route that's for the people who want ah you know an easy terrain low elevation trail run this one's for people who want their first taste of fell running.
00:15:29
Jenny
And I kind of went, oh, yeah, that you're absolutely right. that That is the way to approach this. So then I sort of, yeah, changed my approach and tried to make each route have a kind of distinct character.
00:15:35
UKRunChat
Yes. yeah
00:15:41
Jenny
So and i I try and describe that a little bit in the introduction. to each one to try and give a feel for, you know, what are you going to experience when you go on this run?
00:15:52
Jenny
i remember quite early in my kind of running journey up here, i went with a friend over to the Howgills and I followed a route. We followed a route together that I had come across in a book um of kind of trail running routes.
00:16:07
Jenny
And I remember we got really frustrated because A third of the route was a steep uphill climb. So obviously we were walking that. And then about a third of it was a lovely ridge run, really smooth and flowing.
00:16:19
Jenny
we were like, oh, this is fantastic.
00:16:20
Jenny
Like, this is what we came for. And then the descent was like nothing I'd ever experienced at the time. It was sort of It completely pathless, ah rough, tussocky, like for me at the time, completely unrunnable.
00:16:20
UKRunChat
Thank
00:16:32
Jenny
And i remember coming back and just feeling so frustrated because I felt like I hadn't had a ah run the you know, and I just I wanted to avoid people having that experience of.
00:16:40
UKRunChat
yeah
00:16:43
Jenny
taking my book out and going for a run and coming back and going that wasn't what i
Running Techniques and Tips
00:16:49
Jenny
wanted. So I've tried to sort of describe them as clearly as I can and say, you know, this one does have quite difficult terrain. Some people might need to walk this or, you know, this one's got very steep elevation.
00:17:00
Jenny
And being really clear about things like felon trail runners, they walk up hills. You know, nobody is expecting you to run these routes and run continuously for the whole time that you're out there. So, yeah, I've tried to kind of make those things clear ah so people know what to expect.
00:17:20
UKRunChat
Yeah, that' that's a really good point you make, actually, because some of these fells are really steep out there. There's, you know, there's very few people would would run up them sensibly if they wanted to have a good overall run.
00:17:28
Jenny
Yeah, yeah.
00:17:30
Jenny
Yeah.
00:17:30
UKRunChat
and so the technique there is is, what's a good technique for getting up a steep climb then?
00:17:35
Jenny
It's just about pacing your effort, I think. um There is, you know, there's a certain amount of strength and kind of particular muscles getting stronger that, you know, flat runners initially will find that the hills are harder just because you're using slightly different muscle groups and in different ways than you do when you run on the flat.
00:17:52
Jenny
ah Most hill runners will do some degree of strength training just to kind of build a little bit more of that hill strength without actually having to go and, you know, run up the hills all the time. But the main thing is about... um kind of effort perception.
00:18:06
Jenny
And so when I'm coaching, I mainly rather than working in kind of paces or even heart rate zones, I ask people to think about their, what they, a lot of people use the system, RPE, e rate of perceived exertion.
00:18:19
Jenny
So it's about kind of monitoring, you know, how does this feel in my body? What is my breathing like? um How conversational am I? you know, even if you're on your own being like, can i can I say a whole sentence here or am I gasping out single words?
00:18:32
Jenny
um and just take, you know, when you kind of come to that hill, if you are, say, you know, say you're in the middle of your easy run, as you come to the hill, what you want to do on the hill in terms of effort should be the same or close to as what you were doing on the flat.
00:18:47
Jenny
So that means slowing down to whatever pace is going to match that effort. And that could mean if it's really steep, that it's turning into a very slow walk and that's okay.
00:18:59
Jenny
And often when I'm, out with people um kind of guiding. So I do a bit of sort of bespoke running days in the hills. And I'll often notice that people will set off up the hills very, very fast.
00:19:12
Jenny
And then, you know, they quickly reach a point where they're out of breath and then they have to stop and which, you know, it's all fine. It's part of the learning experience of how to tackle that hill. But what I'll try and encourage them to do is just slow the pace down so that you don't get to that point of I've got to stop now and kind of take some deep breaths that you can just very steadily keep on moving.
00:19:26
UKRunChat
Thank you.
00:19:32
Jenny
It does take, it takes practice. I think it's like, it's the same as when you're a beginner runner, I think. And you, you know, when you start running, you only really have one pace, right? And it's hard. i'm And then as you get more experienced, you kind of start to learn that you've got a pace range. And I tend to find that people discover they've got, you know, after after it stops all being hard, you realize you've got easy and you've got hard, but there's not much in between.
00:19:57
Jenny
But that often, I think when you're trying to find that easy pace, you have to really, really concentrate on slowing it down. And if you're if you don't concentrate, your legs just start carrying your way faster Again, it's a similar thing with the hills that you have to really focus on slower um to to keep the effort in the right place.
00:20:19
UKRunChat
yeah Yeah, that's really interesting. Talk to us a little bit about descending then, because that can be tricky, can't it? and
00:20:26
Jenny
Yeah, I think and I do a lot of work with so on my um workshops, one of the things that we focus on is descent skills, because it's one of the things that, but excuse me, when people kind of arrive, we talk a little bit about what people want to get out of the days. And one of the things that often comes up in those chats is people saying, I don't feel very confident downhill.
00:20:48
Jenny
And when we unpack that, it's usually to do with a fear of slipping or falling, and which is obviously really natural. um You know, none of us want to fall over. And if something about the way that we're running downhill is making us feel like we're about to slip or maybe we've had an experience where we've had a tumble.
00:21:04
Jenny
um Yeah, it it knocks your confidence. So there's a few I mean, there's loads of there's loads of techniques to to downhill running, but a few key ones. and It's about thinking about where your um kind of centre of mass is in relation to your feet.
00:21:19
Jenny
So I used to be a physics teacher, which helps a lot with these concepts, lot of physics in this.
00:21:21
UKRunChat
very helpful. you know
00:21:23
Jenny
So when you're thinking about your body positioning, if you are leaning backwards into the hill, what then happens is that kind of if like if this is my tummy and this is my feet, and my centre of mass is kind of pointing down behind my feet and that will tend to mean that you will fall backwards.
00:21:44
Jenny
So if you're a little bit nervous of the hill and you're kind of leaning back trying to control the pace, what will tend to happen is that the feet go from under you forwards and you you fall on your bum. So getting people to have a more upright posture so that the feet stay underneath the body is really important.
00:22:01
Jenny
um And then small steps can help with that. So if you're taking big strides, you're much more likely to put your centre of mass in a strange position, whereas if your steps are smaller, it feels more controlled, you're staying more above your feet.
00:22:14
Jenny
And then as you get more confident, you know, you see people really bounding downhill with these big, long strides. So one thing that surprises people a lot when they first get onto the trails is how much of a difference it can make to change your stride length to match the terrain or the slope and i've had people who are primarily road runners say kind of oh my goodness like that one thing has transformed how it feels to go downhill.
00:22:39
Jenny
And you just never think of it. If you always run on the flat, you know, I know I didn't ever think before I started running on the hills about how long a step am I taking? Because you just always, you know, your stride length stays the same.
00:22:50
Jenny
Why would it change?
00:22:50
UKRunChat
Yeah. yeah
00:22:51
Jenny
um So yeah, adapting your stride length to how technical or how challenging the terrain is and how steep the slope is i using your arms well is is really helpful. So I often see people initially kind of running downhill with quite rigid arms, kind of like folded in at their sides and kind of tight.
00:23:10
Jenny
And the feeling seems to be that like, I need to be kind of like strong and tense and kind of, you know, holding yourself stiff, which makes sense. But in fact, because you're going to be like you're moving around a lot, you might be hitting say on even ground. Say you stand on something that's a little bit sideways and your body weight gets thrown one way. If your arms are loose, your body will just naturally let your arms go where they need to go to balance you out.
00:23:38
Jenny
So again, if you watch top fell runners coming down the hill, their arms are absolutely crazy. They're going all over the place and there's no, that's not controlled. They're not, you know, deliberately waving them around like windmills. They're just letting them go.
00:23:52
Jenny
where the body wants to put them to keep balanced. Um, and then probably the final one that I'd throw in the mix is, um, just where your eyes and your head are. So often you'll see people kind of eye line very, very close to the feet because you're kind of thinking, I want to see where the next steps are.
00:24:09
Jenny
And actually, if you can see your feet when you're running, it's a little bit too late for your brain to be able to process the next thing that's going to happen. So if you can kind of get your eye line up a little bit and be looking, say, it depends how technical the terrain is, but, you know, three, four, five, six steps ahead, you're giving your brain time to process where the feet are going to go. And then you kind of just have to trust it, that it it can do that. It doesn't need you to be like next foot there, therere there, there, as you know, if you let it.
00:24:42
Jenny
take charge, you you will find, and you know, it's it's well as's a skill that grows. So initially that's hard, but the more you practice, the more you develop that kind of unconscious. I talk a lot about stages of competence. So, you know, you move through being unconsciously incompetent when you don't know something that you can't do.
00:25:01
Jenny
And then you learn a bit more and you realize that you're, you know, maybe not very good at this skill yet. And you're in conscious incompetence. And then you learn how to do it and you move through into conscious competence where you can do this thing quite well, but you have to still concentrate quite hard on it.
00:25:18
Jenny
And the aim is to go out of the other side of that into unconscious competence where actually your brain is doing this in the background, placing your feet where they need to go and you're not having to, you know, ah focus on it kind of intensely for every moment of the run.
00:25:33
UKRunChat
Yeah, is is there a particular terrain that's more difficult to descend, would you say?
Navigating Terrain and Essential Gear
00:25:39
Jenny
Um, everybody's different. I think, objectively, I i don't know, i think i would probably say for me, the thing that I find most difficult is kind of mixed terrain.
00:25:51
Jenny
So when it's kind of open fell slopes that are a mixture of grass and rock, I find those the most challenging just because they're so unpredictable. And on those slopes, you often get quite a lot of holes as well. So you're kind of contending with whenever you put your foot down, not actually knowing what's going to be underneath that kind of soft looking grass. Is there a rock buried in there? Is there a hole buried in there?
00:26:14
Jenny
Is there a tussock there that I'm going to hit and kind of go sideways? um Some people find steep grass really difficult because they feel like it's going to be slippy, um kind of steep gravelly slopes for the same reason.
00:26:27
Jenny
Some people find it kind of rocky um or kind of like big pebbly slopes difficult. Some people don't like scree. It definitely seems to be quite personal as to, and it always seems to be connected to what do people feel a bit unstable and kind of shaky on.
00:26:38
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:26:43
Jenny
Yeah.
00:26:44
UKRunChat
Yeah, yeah. You just meant to screw there and I've winced. So I think that's my that's my nemesis.
00:26:47
Jenny
Yeah. yeah
00:26:49
UKRunChat
I love grass. Give me grass any day.
00:26:51
Jenny
yeah
00:26:54
UKRunChat
Yeah. Any any tips for screw? I hate the feeling of kind of coming down and your feet just kind of not being in the same place.
00:26:59
Jenny
yes
00:27:01
Jenny
Yeah, I think scree, again, people kind of talk about different things that help with scree. The things that I found most useful are the idea that your foot is going to move.
00:27:12
UKRunChat
yeah
00:27:12
Jenny
ah yeah You're not going to if you if you are running down scree at speed, you're not going to plant your foot and have it stay where you put it. So treating it almost a little bit like skiing, that you're sliding rather than running.
00:27:24
UKRunChat
yeah
00:27:27
Jenny
And the most kind of joyous scree slopes are the ones where that happens really kind of freely. um So there's some lovely ones where you kind of just you're you are almost skating down it.
00:27:38
Jenny
And I mean, screw running, we don't do a screen as much screw running as people used to. It used to be a really kind of popular sport in its own right. i remember my dad telling me about his dad taking him screw running in the Langdales.
00:27:52
Jenny
um and And we were talking about it bit and I sort of expressed this mild sadness that, you know, it wasn't really actually sort of, you know, for very good reasons, like socially acceptable, really to go screw running anymore.
00:28:03
UKRunChat
yeah
00:28:03
Jenny
And my dad just so slightly mournfully said, oh, well, yeah, you know, it is sad. But if we all did it all the time, he said, all a mountain would be in the valley. i it It's a very good point.
00:28:14
UKRunChat
Very good point, Ina.
00:28:14
Jenny
Yeah.
00:28:16
UKRunChat
but
00:28:16
Jenny
So, yeah, I that's i but think the thing I find most helpful about scree is just understanding that it will slide. And then another tip that I was given was to really focus on the heel pushing into the ground with scree. So on other surfaces, I'd say try and get the foot flat on the surface to get maximum friction. But of course, with the scree, you're going to slide anyway.
00:28:36
Jenny
So trying to really kind of dig the heel in to kind of make a ah solid i'm sort of base for where your foot's going. That helped me quite a lot.
00:28:45
UKRunChat
Yeah. Okay, good. and What kind of kit might you need if you're heading out then into ah the Lake District Fells and on your own or with a friend? What what might be helpful?
00:28:55
Jenny
Yeah, it varies a lot depending on kind of, you know, things like how long you're intending to be out, um how high are you planning on going, um kind of what the weather conditions are on the day.
00:29:08
Jenny
Um, and we do this in, uh, the workshops that I run, we do a big session on kit cause it's very um conscious that there's so much kit around and there's a lot of really good marketing that wants to convince us that we need all of these different things.
00:29:22
Jenny
So we do a session where I basically just tip all the kits out on the table and we look through it all and we try and kind of identify, you know, for the running that you personally want to do. Which of these things do you need? Which of them are a bit overkill? um You know, getting the right balance for for each person. And there's a lot in the book as well. We've got a big, beautiful book like kit photo that was shot by my friend Emily did an amazing job kind of just showing all of the different pieces.
00:29:48
Jenny
I'd say essentials, always a mobile phone. and Even, you know, we do have some kind of signal black spots still, but not as many as there used to be. And just for, you know, even on quite well used routes, you've got the potential for a few, you know,
00:30:03
Jenny
I think worst case scenario for most runners is maybe you break your ankle. it's the most common thing that's going to happen to us.
00:30:07
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:30:08
Jenny
And of course, if that does, your immoilized um and you're and you're a bit stuck. So being able to phone for help. um I always carry a whistle um for the same reason. If I'm stuck with no mobile signal, at least I can start to kind of ah attract hopefully somebody's attention.
00:30:24
UKRunChat
You see those a lot now as they come as part of running jackets, don't they?
00:30:24
Jenny
i
00:30:27
UKRunChat
And kind of waist tracks and
00:30:28
Jenny
Yeah. And I don't recommend those usually because they are so small ah that they just don't make a very big noise.
00:30:33
UKRunChat
yeah.
00:30:35
Jenny
um So you see people, a separate whistle.
00:30:36
UKRunChat
Yeah, so you would you would carry a separate whistle.
00:30:39
Jenny
Yeah.
00:30:39
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:30:39
Jenny
or If I'm doing a kit check ever for a race, I will always get people to blow the whistle on their pack and then say if they think that anybody would hear them.
00:30:48
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:30:48
Jenny
Yeah.
00:30:48
UKRunChat
okay Yeah, OK, yeah, that's good to know.
00:30:49
Jenny
get and and whistle, you know, they're not, they're really cheap, like, you know, that you can get them for a fiver.
00:30:53
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:30:54
Jenny
So it's not an expensive piece of kit.
00:30:54
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:30:56
Jenny
I always carry some variation on a, like a survival bag as well. It depends on the season. So in the winter, I carry something a bit more heavy duty, there's more expensive and more kind of i technical, but like in the summer, even I'll still carry just a basic foil bag.
00:31:13
Jenny
um And I usually take I'll just, all you know, on all runs, just a bit of food and a bit of water again, just in case the day kind of gets a bit longer than you expected.
00:31:24
Jenny
and And then if you're having a kind of, you know, a medium to a big size day, I always have waterproofs, top and bottom, um head torch, again, just in case the day goes a bit unexpectedly long.
00:31:35
Jenny
And one of the things that I've started carrying much more of the year than I used to is a like an extra warm layer.
00:31:43
UKRunChat
Thank you.
00:31:43
Jenny
There's some really, really good new and kind of synthetic insulated layers around now, I think, driven in part by quite a few races have put in a requirement to have a synthetic insulated layer and the synthetic part is because it stays warm even if it gets wet um which down insulation doesn't um so i think that's driven a bit more development in new products that there's some yeah some really really nice light very warm layers that you can get so i will often just stuff one of those down into a dry bag and put that in.
00:32:15
Jenny
And even if all it does is when you're waiting for the bus at the end of the day, it's, you know, you're cozy rather than a bit shivery. It's it's nice to have.
00:32:20
UKRunChat
yeah
00:32:21
Jenny
Oh,
00:32:22
UKRunChat
Yeah, that's good. as I'm just looking at your kit photo, actually. There's lots on there.
00:32:25
Jenny
yeah.
00:32:26
UKRunChat
Talk to us a little bit about poles. They seem to be getting more popular now.
00:32:29
Jenny
yeah
00:32:30
UKRunChat
and Are they helpful when running up and
00:32:34
Jenny
Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. um I've got a, I actually did a, um did a blog piece last week that's on my website, um not about how to use poles, but about the pros and cons of the four major brands.
00:32:49
Jenny
So just looking at things like cost, weight, like the style of the pole, there's various different kind of considerations that you can think about if you're, if you're buying them, but yeah, they,
00:32:50
UKRunChat
Okay.
00:32:59
Jenny
if they're used properly, they can massively increase kind of speed and efficiency going uphill, particularly. It's kind of like you're in four wheel drive rather than two.
00:33:10
Jenny
um So, you know, being able to propel yourself with your arms as well as your legs, i you can move faster and for less energy expenditure. and So I personally use them for bigger sense.
00:33:23
Jenny
I don't use them downhill. I know a lot of people that do. um that find them really helpful for kind of extra confidence and stability in descent personally i find they get in my way and i just don't like the the downhill feeling i also use them on long events on the flats just towards the end of a day when i'm getting tired i find it's just kind of maybe it's just a comfort blanket more than anything else but just kind of tapping along gently um jogging with them if i've run you know a very long way that day is they're nice to have yeah
00:33:55
UKRunChat
Yeah, just to just to lean on a little bit, yeah.
00:33:57
Jenny
yeah
00:33:59
UKRunChat
Because you've done some really
Personal Achievements and Experiences
00:34:00
UKRunChat
long events. You've done the Bob Graham round, haven't you?
00:34:03
Jenny
Yeah, I did. um I mean, some people would say, no, Jenny, you haven't done a Bob Graham round. I did it last summer I finished in 2448.
00:34:08
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:34:11
Jenny
So a little bit outside the 24 hour window that you need to get to what they call join the club.
00:34:12
UKRunChat
Okay.
00:34:16
Jenny
So there is a there's a literal Bob Graham club that you can join if you've done a 24 hour round and they have an annual dinner and you know your name goes on the completion list and so on.
00:34:17
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:34:19
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:34:26
Jenny
i I'm really proud of my twenty four forty eight And I will i i will defend the kind of, I have completed Frog Graham.
00:34:29
UKRunChat
Yeah, that was fantastic. Yeah.
00:34:36
Jenny
and Partly because I think, ah like, there's other challenges where you there's no time limit. So the Frog Graham, which is a swim run, round that's similar up here has no time limit as long as you do it continuously you've done a frog if you get to the end and the paddy bookly which is the welsh equivalent of the bob graham there's no time limit you can take as long as you want on the paddy as long even you know you can camp overnight and stop as long as you keep on the route continuously you've done it and i I, you know, i I sometimes get people coming to me and saying, oh, you know, I'd love to do something like the Bob Graham, but I'm not fast enough.
00:35:13
Jenny
I well, you you don't have to do it in 24 hours. You know, you could do it in four stages if you wanted to, or you could wild camp along the way, or, you know, just, you know, do it continuously, but take 36 hours. It doesn't matter. So,
00:35:27
Jenny
And I feel like if I'm going to say to people, it's valid for you to undertake this challenge in the way that you want and the way that suits you, I kind of have to own it for myself as well and say, I, you know, i will stand up and say, I've done it, even though some people will like, no, you haven't.
00:35:43
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:35:44
Jenny
ah You know, I'm, yeah, I'm really proud of it. And I hope that if I'm sort of able to say, this is what I've done and I'm really proud, Other people might feel kind of more empowered to say, do you know what, i'm I'm going to do that challenge, even if the way that I'm going to do it is not the way that other people perceive that it should be done or the normal way of doing it. Do it your way.
00:36:07
UKRunChat
Yeah, you're right. You can still go and enjoy it. And you've got some great ideas of different kind of rounds in there, haven't you, of all all distances, really? from I think the shortest is is it about 22k, the espresso round in there.
00:36:18
Jenny
Yes. Yeah. So we did a page where we put in, I think, 10. Yes, it's 10, isn't it? There's nine maps because one of them doesn't have a map. 10 of these kind of challenge routes in the lakes.
00:36:29
Jenny
And so, yeah, the Bob Graham is in there, um which is if we've just been kind of nattering on about Bob Graham and people don't want to what it is.
00:36:29
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:36:37
Jenny
It's a circuit of 42 miles. peaks in the Lake District that kind of the the traditional way of doing that is that you have to complete it within 24 hours.
00:36:40
UKRunChat
Okay.
00:36:45
Jenny
But yeah, we've put in other things like the the um tea round, which is a um a challenge that starts from one of the um outdoor shops in Keswick and it's all the hills that you can see from the shop window. The espresso round is the kind of baby sister of that bigger round.
00:37:02
Jenny
There's other fun stuff like um there's a thing called the lunar round, which you do it um in the hours of darkness So it's kind of like, a you could you know, if you do it in the summer, you might have really nice conditions, but the hours of darkness are quite short.
00:37:09
UKRunChat
Oh.
00:37:14
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:37:17
Jenny
And if you do it in the winter, you've got loads of time, but it might not be very nice conditions. So, yeah, there's some big kind of challenges in there that people could so kind of get inspired to take.
00:37:28
UKRunChat
Yeah, so great some great ideas and some great roots. Shall we just have a quick um recap on safety in the hills?
00:37:36
Jenny
Hmm.
00:37:37
UKRunChat
Because we've we've mentioned whistles, we've mentioned survival blankets. What else do we need to be taking into account if if we're going out there?
00:37:43
Jenny
Yeah, I think for me, one of the biggest things is um staying kind of within what feels comfortable for you.
00:37:55
Jenny
um I talk with my runners quite a lot about like types of fun. So type one fun, type two fun, you know, we're quite familiar with those like type one fun is, you know, you're having a great time in the moment. Type two is your, it kind of, it's not very fun at the time, but you look back at it and you're like, oh, that was amazing.
00:38:12
Jenny
Let's do that again.
00:38:13
UKRunChat
Thank you.
00:38:13
Jenny
And I don't know whether I invented type three fun or whether it's a concept that existed already, but I think of type three fun as the stuff where actually you're having experience where, It's not fun in the moment.
00:38:24
Jenny
You are scared and out of your comfort zone. And when you look back at it afterwards, there's no sense of like pride or achievement. You're still just going, i wasn't safe. I felt scared and it was, it was no good.
00:38:35
Jenny
And I had experiences like that when I was first getting into hill walking. There were loads of times when usually navigationally, it took me quite a long time to develop my navigation skills.
00:38:45
Jenny
And I often was ending up just totally lost. And it was before the OS app existed. So I could never just easily relocate myself. And I ended up getting really scared. And I remember...
00:38:57
Jenny
you know, planning to go out on big hill days and having this sick feeling in my stomach of just fear. And, so and I sort of kept doing it and pushed through it. But i looking back at it, I realized that actually, I was just going a little bit too far too fast and putting myself way out of my comfort zone in a way that wasn't good for my development because I wasn't learning from these experiences all I was learning was that I was scared ah doing this and I wasn't growing so I think that would always be my starting point is you know do you feel confident in your day do you feel like you have the skills the equipment's
00:39:33
Jenny
the experience to really enjoy the day that you're going to do and you know we all get days where something goes a bit unexpectedly awry and you get an experience that you weren't expecting so I'm not sort of suggesting that you know if something ever goes wrong in the hills that you've made a bad choice with your route or your experience but just starting from that do I feel confident in what I'm going to do and there's loads of things you know if you feel like you're not confident yet with what you want to do, you know, you could just start smaller and do little versions the same thing.
00:40:05
Jenny
and There's loads of books and resources online that you can learn from. There's loads of courses, workshops, hill skills, that kind of thing that you can do. Then I think once you're at that stage, we're like, no, I do feel good about this, this day that I'm planning and making sure somebody knows where you're going. I think that's probably the top of my list in terms of safety is just leaving a route with somebody. So if something does go wrong and you can't call for help for some reason, they have a starting point for, you know, when they ask Mountain Rescue to come and look for you, they're not saying they're somewhere in the Lake District.
00:40:37
Jenny
um They're saying, you know, they planned to do the Fairfield Horseshoe and they said that they were going to be back by, four o'clock, massively narrows down the the search area.
00:40:48
Jenny
um And knowing how to call for help is probably the next most important thing. So if you need help in the hills, you can call 999 and you ask for the police service initially. And then when you get to speak to the police, you tell them that you need mountain rescue and they will then connect that to the appropriate mountain rescue team who will make contact with you and figure out where you are and then come out hopefully, and well not hopefully, they will, they'll come and help you.
00:41:12
Jenny
um So just knowing how to be able to do that. And I think not being scared to do that. You know, i i think sometimes people think, oh, you know, somebody's going to think I'm stupid or I've made a mistake or or maybe even I should be able to get myself out of this situation. And knowing that actually Mountain Rescue, they never judge. They they love what they do. You know, they volunteer because they absolutely adore.
00:41:34
Jenny
going out into the hills and helping people. So never being scared to say, actually, this day has got a bit out of my control here. I don't feel safe anymore. I need some help. um And then knowing how to get it.
00:41:44
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:41:45
Jenny
Yeah. And then it's mainly just, it's having the right equipment and and knowing how and when to use it, I think.
00:41:51
UKRunChat
Yeah, i think what I think what you said about not going kind of too far out of your comfort zone is key though, isn't it? That's really, really sensible advice. We just keep pushing those boundaries just a little bit at a time.
00:42:03
Jenny
Exactly.
00:42:03
UKRunChat
Yeah, and we'll eventually get to where we want to be, won't we?
00:42:03
Jenny
Yeah, just, yeah. Yeah, that's it.
00:42:07
UKRunChat
Yeah. Oh, well, yeah, it's it's been fascinating chatting to you, Jenny. and What's your favourite route in the book?
00:42:15
Jenny
My favourite favourite is Blackcomb. um Blackcomb is a, it's a, it's a, it's not quite a mountain. I mean, there's no technical definition of a mountain, but um kind of 2000 feet is often quoted and it's, it's just ever so slightly under that.
00:42:30
Jenny
It's, it's the kind of biggest hill in the south west corner of Cumbria. And I can see it from my garden. And when I was growing up, I could see it from my bedroom window every day. So I've got a long history of looking at Black Coombe.
00:42:46
Jenny
And then as an adult, um obviously starting to run up it, it just it kind of feels really special. um And it's also it's just a really good run as well. It's got an incredible descent. So you kind of, if you climb up the front of it, um and then you descend off the back.
00:43:02
Jenny
And it's about four kilometres of just smooth, easy grass on a perfect gradient. So you know, you're you're running downhill for like 20 minutes, 30 minutes, continuously, it's just, it's really joyful.
00:43:15
Jenny
and So yeah, that's my, that's my personal favourite of everything that's in there.
00:43:18
UKRunChat
Yeah, that sounds incredible. And there are, of course, lots and of routes to choose from. If you're a complete beginner, aren't there?
Recommendations and Future Plans
00:43:25
UKRunChat
You've got a whole chapter on beginner routes.
00:43:28
Jenny
Yeah, and there's a big range in there. So there's kind of, you know, there's beginner routes for people that want a little bit of a taste of what fell running is like. There's beginner routes for people that are kind of, because I'm very conscious that there's lots of different kinds of beginner. So, you know, I had a, and well, still have a friend who, but when I was first writing the book, she was quite a beginner runner in terms of her running journey, but she started as a fell runner.
00:43:53
Jenny
So she never really ran on the road.
00:43:55
UKRunChat
Thanks.
00:43:56
Jenny
um So she was a beginner to running, but she wasn't a beginner to the fells. um But then other people might be experienced road runners, but beginners to hill running. So there's some quite long routes in the beginner section that are more kind of they give you a taste of trail within them. there's one that's actually probably about 40 percent tarmac.
00:44:18
Jenny
but it's got lovely trail sections within it and it's got beautiful scenery. So that one, so it would be a really nice route for somebody that is you know quite an experienced roadrunner. Maybe they kind of comfortably run half marathons and they just want to try out what is this trail running all about?
00:44:30
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:44:35
UKRunChat
Yeah, sounds good. and So what's next for you personally in terms of events and racing? racing
00:44:42
Jenny
um i i did I did have a entry for the Dragon's Back this September. And I've had a bit of a niggly knee and it just all started to feel a bit...
00:44:55
Jenny
not fun trying to train and manage the knee rehab at the same time. So I pushed that back to next year. So next year I've got, um, dragons back in September and I've got an entry for spine challenges South in January, um, which I, um, I started this year and I got about halfway and just, it was such a I knew going into that race that didn't really know,
00:45:23
Jenny
why I was there or why I wanted to do it. And so I had a strong suspicion that when things got tough, I would just throw in the towel because I didn't have a good enough reason for wanting to continue.
00:45:33
Jenny
And that's exactly what happened ah when I started falling asleep in the snow um had to make a decision about whether to get all my sleep kit out and try and have a nap in a freezing cold bus stop.
00:45:45
Jenny
I decided that I didn't want to do that. didn't want it badly enough um and so I dnf'd I just was overwhelmed by the spine experience like I think I needed to go and understand what people talk about when they talk about like the spine family and how amazing the volunteers are they were just incredible and so i you know i as soon as entries opened I booked again and feeling a much stronger sense of I know now kind of why I want to why I want to do this and then just yesterday actually because I think I got a bit overexcited by all the Latelyn's um kind of fever and my knee has been a lot better the last few weeks so I've sort of got back in my mind actually i might be able to race little bit um so I entered the Seven Valleys which is one of the 13 valleys distances they have um
00:46:39
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:46:40
Jenny
two valleys, five valleys, seven valleys, and 13 valleys. And the idea is, again, it's the they want to do something for everybody. So the two valleys is about 22k.
00:46:50
UKRunChat
yeah
00:46:51
Jenny
And it's a beginner trail, where it's a really, really lovely route. And they're very much marketing that as kind of if you've never run trails before or you you know you've got very little experience, this is the race for you and we're gonna look after you.
00:47:03
Jenny
It's fully marked. They want to make it really inclusive. And then the 13 valleys is 180 kilometers and it's an absolute beast. um And it's, you know people are really loving that as a ah big challenge route.
00:47:14
Jenny
So I've gone for the seven, um which is 110 kilometers and that feels about the right, that's the right level of um challenge for what I want right now.
00:47:18
UKRunChat
Yeah. you Yeah.
00:47:23
UKRunChat
Yeah. Oh, well, good for you. Oh, well, hopefully you find those enjoyable. Dragon's dragon's back is a fair old challenge as well, isn't it?
00:47:32
Jenny
Yeah, I just, I really wanted, it's the journey with that one.
00:47:32
UKRunChat
Wow.
00:47:35
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:47:35
Jenny
I love journeys kind of, I'm going, tomorrow? Yeah, tomorrow I'm going off to run the Dales Highway, um which is a route kind of, well, yes, through the Dales, and it's the kind of high level alternative to the Dales, where I'm going to do that over three days.
00:47:48
UKRunChat
Okay.
00:47:51
Jenny
I just, yeah, love kind of linear journeys, and the Dragon's Back mainly follows the Cambrian Way, which is the kind of like rooftop of Wales. It's, you're going down like the,
00:48:00
UKRunChat
Yeah, it's like spine, isn't it?
00:48:01
Jenny
Yeah, down the spine of Wales, through all the highest points.
00:48:01
UKRunChat
Yeah.
00:48:03
Jenny
And it's like a really complicated thing to do solo. You've either got to carry so much kit or you're gonna have to like deviate a long way off route to get to accommodation.
00:48:14
Jenny
And so I kind of thought when I realized that I wanted to make that journey, the race is the easiest way to do that. So yeah, I'm very much kind of going into it thinking I just, I want to get all the way from Conway to Cardiff and make that journey.
00:48:29
UKRunChat
Oh, amazing. So, please yeah, please give us a reminder of your book and where people can find it.
00:48:35
Jenny
um Yeah, so the book is called the Lake District Trail and Fell Running Guide. um And you can get it direct from the publisher, which is inspired by Lakeland. It's on their website. And it's also in bookshops and gift shops across Cumbria.
00:48:54
Jenny
um And you can also, there's links to it on my website and through my socials as well. And you can find me at Jenny Bushel Adventures on Instagram and Facebook. And my website is JennyBushelAdventures.co.uk.
00:49:07
UKRunChat
ah Perfect. You'll find a link to those in the show notes.
00:49:10
Jenny
yeah
00:49:10
UKRunChat
Thank you so much, Jenny. It's been a real pleasure exploring the fells through your eyes. I'm a bit inspired now to go and try some running up there. I've done lots of walking, but yes, maybe I'll head up there soon and do some running.
00:49:16
Jenny
yay yep that'd be fab thank you so much for having me
00:49:23
UKRunChat
Yeah, thank you. And we hope that all you listening have enjoyed this episode and we'll see you on the next one.