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#13 Hywel Griffith - The limit of keeping it local and the evolution of fine dining
135 Plays2 months ago
Today on the Check On podcast, we have the pleasure of speaking with Chef Hywel Griffith.
Hywel grew up in a small town in Wales, having Welsh as his first language and English as second. Hywel has featured on Great British Menu, as a guest on MasterChef, and is the Chef behind Beach House Oxwich and its Michelin star.
Hywel speaks to us about the challenge of using local, what he thinks about the change of attitude in the kitchen, and his approach to being on the Great British Menu.
Please enjoy, Hywel Griffith!
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Transcript
Introduction and Greetings
00:00:11
Speaker
And we are recording. Hello, Huel. How are you? Yeah, very good. Thanks. And yourself? Not too bad. Not too bad. Glad to be here. Would you mind doing a little introduction on yourself? Yeah, of course.
Huel's Background and Early Career
00:00:24
Speaker
I'm Huel Griffith, chef director of Michelin star Beach House restaurant down in Oxford.
00:00:31
Speaker
We're on a little beach in South Wales, loving life really. You've done that before. Yeah. We're about to switch.
00:00:42
Speaker
Oxwich is just west of Swansea. There's a small little peninsula. um Really easy to get to. um Straight down the M4. One of the worst motorways in Britain. but Once you get off it, it's yeah it's a stunning rural rule place filled with golden sandy beaches, wonderful hills and yeah all sorts of stuff. so yeah really Really, really nice place.
00:01:09
Speaker
That's cool. I've been to Swansea before actually, not for very long, just a couple of days, but it was really beautiful. Yeah, that's very good. Did you grow up there? No, i I'm originally from a little village called Bethesda in North Wales, a little mining village.
00:01:25
Speaker
The great bit about it now, there's a zip wire up in North Wales, and that's how I can tell people where I'm from. So the little village where the zip wire is in the quarry, I'm from there. and I left when I was 17 and never kind of, I mean, I've visited my family since, but never never been back. Do you miss it? Obviously, I miss my family, and not seeing them on a regular basis, but I i don't think what I do now and however how my life is kind of fits in that um and know small community. you know up So but that side of it, not so much. What was it like growing up there? You say it's small. How small are we talking?
00:02:08
Speaker
a few thousand people. ah I couldn't tell you exactly how much but it's, um I think it's, Bethesda's the main village and there's a couple of other little villages that sense kind of morphed into one kind of bigger unit really. um And it's, you know,
00:02:26
Speaker
i 99% of what I spoke was Welsh until i I left London when I was 17. My family, my friends, you know i was I went to London. i you know Looking back, I was practically a foreigner going down there. um That's how rustic my English was. Wow, that's really interesting. I mean i i knew people in Wales obviously spoke Welsh, but I guess I never really thought about it as their predominant language. Oh, yeah.
00:02:55
Speaker
Was that a massive culture shock for you? Weirdly, like it the same in United Kingdom, but still a culture shock. Yeah, I kind of knew it and I kind of knew it would be different when I went to London, but obviously growing up as a child, you know, English was just a second language that I learned, you know? I mean, it was no different to French lessons that we had in things. I mean, no, but maybe that's not quite as fair as that because, you know, you don't typically hear people talk in French, you know, but, um, um, it was, yeah, it was, it was definitely, you know, the five first five years when I left North Wales, it was, it was a tough time and kind of readjusting and making English my, my first language really, like maybe maybe not my first language, but definitely stronger than it was. That's really interesting. Whereabouts did you go to in London?
Training and Early London Experience
00:03:49
Speaker
Lanesborough High Park Corner and ah Paul Gala was still the chef there at the time. and Everything was just a huge culture culture shock. um I remember my college lecturer took me and my friend, his name was Ian. Yeah, the lecture was called Roger and then he took me and Ian down and we came out the tube station in Brixton on a Saturday night and it was just, it was just so alien. I thought,
00:04:20
Speaker
I thought, are we still in the same country? we Have we gone somewhere else? Are we under the tunnel or under the channel tunnel or something? And it was just kind of, I was, you know, it was a little country bumpkin, you know, I was kind of, you know, never been abroad, never been abroad. I think I went abroad the year before we college. That was my, we went to Northern Italy. And that was my only kind of you know, being outside the UK at that point. And it was, it was just massive. And then to go into the kitchen at Lanesboro, then to, you know, go from North Wales, where everybody, you know, I spoke to with my friends, my family, speaking to Welsh, then to go into Lanesboro, which was a huge melting pot of different cultures. And, you know,
00:05:13
Speaker
what the KP's were, Jamaica and then you had, I mean, there, there was everything there that, you know, it was, it was just, it was massive. But, you know, looking back, I loved it. I enjoyed it. So you went there when you were 17, your college lecturer told you to go there. Had you had experience in a kitchen before that? Or was it all sort of in school studies? No, I mean, I was about 12, 13. And I came home one day and I said to my parents, I want to be a chef.
00:05:44
Speaker
And they were like, at that age, all right, OK, you know yeahre want to be an astronaut next week or whatever. you know They just kind of played it down. You know what? Being a chef is glamorized and is quite trendy these days. So you can kind of understand it. Back then, 25 years ago, not so much, it was Delia Smith was out there cooking. It was ready, steady cook. It was can cook, won't cook. It was Floyd.
00:06:11
Speaker
um And I used to love them and I used to watch them, you know, and then I started cooking, making an absolute mess of my mother's kitchen. A few years, you know, a few months, few years later, I was cooking dinner for when, you know, my parents would come home from work and steadily got better and better. I mean, there were a fair few disasters along the way. I'm so i'm sure there was, you know, some burnt things. and But yeah, kind of, it just snowballed from there, really. and
00:06:43
Speaker
Then I lost interest in school because I knew I wanted to be a chef. that There was nothing else. And I'm quite a driven, stubborn individual. And once I want to do something, I put my mind to it. that's That's what I go ahead and do. And I knew that's what I wanted to do and kind of, yeah, just went through it. And then, yeah, went went from school straight to college.
00:07:06
Speaker
Yeah, kind of started learning to be a chef there, I guess, and learning, you know, understanding how a kitchen operates at an exceptionally basic level. And Roger, he knew Paul Lloyd worked with him or something along, but he had a contact and he said, do you want to go to London?
00:07:23
Speaker
Without thought, I went, yeah, okay. but When he said, well, I'll take you down next weekend, and this was like on the Monday or something in college, and I went home, and I hadn't even told my mum by that point. I think it was probably the Wednesday or the Thursday by the time I told her. I said, up um i'm I'm going down to London to work. And she's like,
00:07:48
Speaker
all right, okay. When's this happening? Roger's taking us on Saturday. And they're kind of like my both my parents or what do you mean Saturday? then yeah that iss Saturday. So yeah, he's, he's booked a train, and then we're gonna go down to London, and I'm gonna work down in London. And kind of but Very typical of how I am, just just go for it, you know, just do it. I decided I wanted to do it, that's what I was going to do and I just kind of went for it and my parents were obviously, I'm sure they had a conversation with Roger behind my back, I mean, I don't know if they did. um But yeah, just kind of left North Wales, I went for it. Were they a bit apprehensive to let you go?
00:08:32
Speaker
Oh, my mum was shocked. Yeah, she was. Yeah, she she was very shocked. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe they thought I'd be straight back. Maybe I wouldn't like the big city or whatever it was. um ah Yeah. it is So you didn't just go for like a couple of weeks work experience you you went to. went i Initially went for six weeks. Which turned into I think about 12 weeks in the end. Then I had to nick back home, finish my third year in college and then I went straight back down full time. It was merely just kind of finishing signing off paperwork and yeah, so yeah, straight back down.
00:09:17
Speaker
That's a really quick decision, but um i I connect with that a lot. I make very quick decisions like that. I think I moved from Australia to New Zealand with about two weeks thought into it. Which is probably the same as Northern Wales to to London, to be fair.
00:09:31
Speaker
yeah yeah and it' is's kind of I'm quick to evaluate things and decide whether it's a good idea or a bad idea. I mean, listen, at the end of the day, you if you know the outcome of a situation, then we probably wouldn't we wouldn't do half the things that we do. but You know, i'm not I'm not a person that'll sit there and dwell and go, oh, this can go wrong or this could go wrong. And I think I'm quite a positive person overall. um In fact, I very am. And kind of, yeah, I just think, what's the worst I can come from it and just kind of go ahead and do this stuff. Yeah. What was it like your first day in the kitchen there? Lost, totally lost. Yeah.
00:10:17
Speaker
So obviously, by the time I was kind of starting my third year in college, I'd known the kitchen college a little bit and the kitchen in the college and I kind of knew my way around it. And, you know, with the information I had, I thought I kind of got the gist of it, you know, and you go down there and it's it's a multi-kitchen site and it's underground and there's corridors and there's just everything going on and then you don't appreciate that you know um you've got room service flying about you've got the the the the porters the the the laundry room the people who clean the you know the the rooms and all this thing just hundreds of people flying around around you know doing in their day and i just felt
00:11:10
Speaker
yeah it was very humbling and very kind of actually I know nothing kind of thing you know it was and then we were working with ingredients that I'd never seen before you know um my mother you know it's great baker great homely cook but we cooked with very basic ingredients at home stuff that you know and then I landed in Leinsborough and I see all these new fascinating ingredients and never seen venison or truffles or caviar or scallops before and you know scallop to me then was a battered potato from the chip shop you know and it was just it was a constant treadmill of learning and seeing all this new stuff and yeah it was it was bloody brilliant to be fair. Were you doing long hours?
00:11:59
Speaker
Yeah, exceptionally. So yeah, yeah, yeah, kind of on my knees type of long hours, you know? Yeah. Did you love it at the time though? I don't think I loved every day. I think there was days where I'd had enough of it, but on the whole, on the balance, yes, I loved it. I loved the, you know, the kind of Yeah, I love the vibe, I love everything about it. Were there any like hard days that you remember that really stuck with you? Because I think sometimes most of yeah and sometimes in those first years or first tu experiences in ah in a full-on kitchen, they can be really, really memorable, good and bad.
00:12:48
Speaker
um I think it was, it was such a wormhole journey and I just kind of, it was, you know, kind of like dropped into this thing and I think I was working so many hours and it was so kind of difficult and I was absorbing and trying to learn as much as I could. I didn't have really time to kind of sit back and evaluate life and, you know, I'm not,
00:13:20
Speaker
not lo of i I'm but I'm comfortable in my own skin. you know I'm not a person that... You know, some people need their family to be around them constantly and see them every day and, you know, go see their, you know, their siblings every weekend and stuff like that. And I'm just, you know, ah not that I don't enjoy their company. I'm just kind of, I'm just not that kind of, I'm not that way. So that that didn't bother me that much. The distance didn't bother me that much. Mobile phones were just kind of gaining traction. I had a phone at the time and sound old saying stuff like that.
00:13:57
Speaker
And now there's nothing you can't do on your phone. yeah So I could you know you ring me dad on an evening I was off. so you know it wasnt yeah it It didn't bother me that much. And just the fact that kind of yeah just heading down this journey and doing this this thing that was so alien to everything I knew, and it just kind of looked after itself almost.
00:14:22
Speaker
It's very all-consuming almost. like If you're doing all those really long hours and you've just gone from a small town to to London, you know I imagine that there was really no time to kind of assess if anything was wrong or if you were tired or anything. Well, that's the thing. and you know I wasn't on a lot of money. I was a second commie. I literally had 20 pound a month left over after I'd pay all my bills and my travel.
00:14:51
Speaker
um You know, 20 pound a month, 25 years ago, is significantly more than it is now, but it's still not a lot of money. And then I started working more days, you know, as if working my ah base days wasn't enough, then I'd be working six and seven days a week, and then I got promoted. And then it was like,
00:15:08
Speaker
I've got some money now, you know, and then I could have afford to do things. And then that opened and a kind of second layer of a rabbit hole. And I thought, oh, what if I get promoted again? What will happen if I work harder again? And before you know it, I'm a chef to party. And, you know, it's kind of I'm putting the basis of ah you know, ah an adult life together and kind of just kind of making my own way really, instead of, you know, I was no longer kind of my identity wasn't my parents son, I was my own person, earning my own money, renting my own kind of, you know, I was in a flat share situation. And it was life was good, really. like When do you feel like you found your own identity as a chef?
Journey to Michelin Star
00:15:58
Speaker
a few years after I opened Beach House, I think, um and really started getting a lot of recognition and kind of TV helped a lot and doing a lot of media and you know winning in the awards we won and getting the Michelin star and everything. And just kind of, yeah, I think a lot of us chefs, we we always feel we always feel like we don't do enough, or nothing's ever good enough, or we could work a little bit more, we could work a little bit harder, so especially the the people who stay in the industry long-term and really achieve, and there's just kind of, I wouldn't say it's unhealthy, but it's definitely an obsession, and it is definitely a character trait, and it's kind of, yeah, probably took me a few years of being here, so, and just to kind of, yeah.
00:16:59
Speaker
Yeah, so yeah, I think yeah, it it was odd really. Yeah. When did you decide that you wanted to have your own place?
00:17:16
Speaker
Well, the thing is, you know, business partners here, Neil and Zoe, they're, you know, but originally I come to work for them and I was made a director here and I was bought into the fold into part of the business, you know, so it it kind of, I guess it happened naturally. It's not as if, you know, I kind of scooped a load of money together and kind of opened my own restaurant, you know, so I guess there was a transitional thing that kind of happened naturally with the success of the restaurant, really.
00:17:45
Speaker
What was it like taking it over? ah I mean, that kind of happened quite quickly, really, because, I don't know, me and Neil, we kind of, we had this understanding and kind of Yeah, just everything kind of worked here and obviously the first few weeks, the few days that you know, we had some quiet days and the more the restaurant gained traction and you know, the busier we got and it run well and you know, we just kept on growing year after year, month after month, it just kept on going and yeah, it was a just kind of there was no kind of one definitive moment that it was kind of
00:18:29
Speaker
off you go now type of thing, you know, it was, yeah, I just, you know, I've never run a business before coming here, you know, ah I was head chef before, but I had a chef over me and then to come here and then to, yeah, I kind of flourished again, I think really, and but it wasn't came from purely a cooking role into you know, ah managing front of house as well, looking after everything, you know, making sure the maintenance is done. And now, obviously, yeah, director for two restaurants within the serene group, really. So it's ah come a long way, which is, yeah, it's pretty good. Good feeling. I have to wear multiple hats, I imagine. Yes, yeah, you have to be a little bit of everything. You have to, yeah.
00:19:18
Speaker
business side, you have to be creative, you have all sorts of stuff. all sorts of stuff yeah yeah Talk to me about the the ethos of the restaurant and and what makes Beach House Beach House. Fresh seasonal food, that's it. simple as that yeah yeah It's as simple as that. Fresh seasonal and local as long as it's good.
00:19:40
Speaker
Yeah, there's some restaurants in this kind of trying to use local produce that'll just put anything on that. Some of these uncalled Dave Rea's like four ducks and they put it on the menu once or whatever and they they just put this stuff on. That's not really good. I mean, yeah, we use it as long as there's enough of it and it is quality and it is consistent.
00:20:04
Speaker
um We're very much in line with the season. The season changes, we change. It's a favorite question. What's your signature dish? What's your favorite food? and up like I don't have one. and i like yeah you know You cook the same dish over and over again. It's been on a few weeks. You get bored of it. and also You can't really have a... But for me it's kind of the new season is the exciting thing, you know, right now we're coming, you know, your pumpkins, your parsnips are coming in, your game is rich and everything's just changing over from summer menus and that's what I love, the the kind of, yeah, the excitement of creating new dishes and yeah, love it.
00:20:46
Speaker
Anytime someone asks me what my signature dish is, I feel like it's it's only ever non-industry people that would ask that. Yeah, 100%. It's such a horrible question. Yeah. Or what do you love to cook? It's like, everything. Yeah, love to cook everything. Everything and everything different. Because, you know, if you did the same thing over and over again, you you get you get bloody bored of it, you know, and this is, yeah.
00:21:11
Speaker
I guess they don't appreciate that. you know um I think last year we served 15,000 guests at beach Beach House last year. you know and If you think you cook that many dishes, it'd be quite tough to single one thing out as being your favorite over everything else once you've cooked it hundreds, if not thousands of times.
00:21:34
Speaker
You actually you half answered one of my questions already. I was going to ask you about um the idea of using only local products and if there was a better product from further away from say Northern Scotland, would you use it? Yeah, of course we do. and There's there's but stuff globally and you know further, you know not even globally, but stuff in the UK that we can get that are not here. you know You can't get chocolate, not even in in Europe. you know it It just doesn't grow there. do we not Do we go as extreme and not put it on the menu? No, because we like a bit of chocolate. you know Same with vanilla or you know do we not have coffee in a restaurant because you know it's it's impossible for it to grow locally. Of course we don't. you know there There has to be a sense of realism and a bit of sensibility about it. and
00:22:27
Speaker
Yeah, look at lamb. The Gao Salt Marsh lamb, Webley Castle is probably over the hill, is probably about four, three, four miles away from the restaurant as a crow flies. It is absolutely brilliant lamb. I would be bonkers to use any other lamb either, you know, anywhere else in Wales or further afield because it's great there and it is is local. So that's that's what we do, we use it. On the other hand, we've had some other suppliers that,
00:22:56
Speaker
You know, there is a tough side of it as well where you have, you know, a small local supplier and they're so passionate about what they do and they just haven't gotten enough volume or some are just not good enough. I mean, you also have to have that conversation and say, it doesn't kind of fit here, you know? So there is a tough side of it with that as well, you know? And yeah, so you we just be a bit sensible about it. And, you know, if you want to put certain things on time of year for for a while that we,
00:23:26
Speaker
just doesn't grow here, then we do it, you know? We go into winter now, once we shut for two weeks in Jan, once we reopen, there's nothing. So we're probably, you know, I do love this lovely passion fruit tart. There's passion fruit growing, Wales operating, of course it doesn't, but not much else does in Feb. So um we have to be sensible about it that way.
00:23:49
Speaker
I always find it interesting when you see restaurants that um claim to only have things sort of within 10 miles of the restaurant or something. I always wonder how they do that because to me, I'm like, well, does that mean you don't use lemons anywhere or things like that? I always get a little bit skeptical. I'm not saying that there's not people that do it and don't do it well, but I think it's a big trend, at least what I've seen at the moment, to say that it's ah within a 10 mile radius.
00:24:15
Speaker
yeah's think about salt and sugar or oil as the most you know and maybe we've been a bit pedantic here with that and and that's why I like to be quite open and honest about stuff and say we use local stuff as long as it is you know sensible and we can get it and stuff like that you know so um I think there's a lot of that kind of misinformation that restaurants like to put out there and It's ah tough to get a lot of stuff locally. you know I'm looking at my order book now and we do both of the orders on a Saturday and I'm ringing 30 different suppliers and we you know we get, so there's a lovely lady called Carrie Rimes and she makes this small cheese called Brevibach translates to little bleating. So it's a sheep's milk cheese.
00:25:04
Speaker
And, you know, she she makes it probably the factory. I mean, I say a factory, it's a it's a tiny little converted church. It's probably about a quarter mile from my childhood home in Bethesda. And we just buy this cheese off her.
00:25:21
Speaker
And it is a very small part of what we do here. um And we do that with a lot of stuff. we get you know The venison we get is from Fandilo. He's a small game ah dealer up there. And that's the only thing we buy off him. And we do this with a lot of little ingredients. And it takes a lot of work.
00:25:42
Speaker
ah there Are there a lot of cool suppliers around where you are, though? I mean, you've just rounded off a few of them, but it sounds like there are some some cool things happening with suppliers with the lamb and the cheese. and the it So we're in a very fortunate. um situation in Wales now where dairy is as good as you can get anywhere maybe cheeses aren't quite as iconic as stuff you can find in France and Italy and stuff like that but we're certainly getting there um we use the odd bit of ricotta the odd bit of parmesan on a vegetarian vegetarian dish certain times a year but apart from that all the dairy is Welsh all the cheese is on the cheese board all the milk we buy all the butter that we use even
00:26:26
Speaker
um We use a cultured butter from a farm, probably an hour were from the restaurant really. ah That gets curried in and stuff like that and it's great to be able to use them. so What kind of a head chef are you now compared to what you were when you first became a head chef?
00:26:47
Speaker
oh In the beginning I was you know typical, hot tempered, everything now, kind of let's go, kind of why can't you do your job right type thing. and so um you know just i want my four forty yeah forty one early forty s now and it's kind of You mellow out, you can't help but mellow out and you have to. you know um Kitchen culture is very different now to what it was when I was a young chef and it was pretty cutthroat back then. and you know We still work hard now, we you know long hours are still, but you know we we shut three days a week and stuff like that. and we We try not to be here till two in the morning and stuff like that anymore.
00:27:32
Speaker
Yeah, it's mellowed out all the years. I hear that a lot. like A lot. How do you think the kitchen culture has changed?
00:27:45
Speaker
um I think overall it has changed for the better. You know, we've I've been well over 100 hours a week in jobs I've had when I was a young chef and kind of was it healthy? No. Did I Why did I do it? Well, I did it to get to where I am today. Do I regret doing it? Not at all. Not one bit. is it kind of Was it good for my health at times? No, it wasn't. you know so um you know Especially here, we give great work-life balance and everybody kind of loves that side of it. That's had to change for the good. um I think pay is increasing and it is still increasing within hospitality and it's in line
00:28:33
Speaker
with what people are worth a lot more, you know? So, yeah, things like that are really positive. I'm not saying that this is my opinion necessarily, but do you think that the way that the industry has changed, do you think that it's driving chefs in the same way that it used to? Or is it just driving them in a different way because it's a more nurturing environment? I've literally just had this conversation, how long we've been on, 20 minutes or so.
00:29:01
Speaker
I've literally just had this conversation 40 minutes ago with a Father and his young young son at the pass and his son is ah is a budding chef and he literally just asked me the same question.
00:29:13
Speaker
and I'll tell you the same thing. I don't regret the way I came up. I don't regret how hard I worked on what the things I did. And I really appreciate appreciate it because it's formed me into who I am today. And it's given me an edge over a lot of other stuff. But what has been good for me is obviously you know has you know totally changed the career path of hundreds of other chefs and has burnt out
00:29:44
Speaker
countless amount of people who are now you know they develop dishes for supermarkets or their college lecturers or they've gone to do something completely different because the industry is so ridiculously over the top if you want to work at a decent level. you know um So my experience sat here now 25 years after starting. There's a positive one, but there's a wake up of the people who have you know had their lives turned upside down from what they thought they were going to do. um So yeah, there's, you know does my positive story outweigh their negative ones?
00:30:26
Speaker
it doesn't on the balance. For me, I enjoyed it. and i you know you know and I don't know why, but yeah it fed me and it pushed me along and it turned me into who I am. you know so yeah I like that. I think there's, I think it's sort of both sides to it, um for sure. But I think thatly know all do you get you get more reflective, don't you, you know, you you kind of look at things differently, you know, if you asked me that question 10 years ago, I probably would have given you a very different answer.
00:31:02
Speaker
yeah i think um I'm just trying to think. well I started my apprenticeship 11 or 12 years ago now. yeah I think out of the 30 students in my class, I think maybe four of us are professional chefs now. yeah um So I don't know whether that's to do with the industry or not. but I think that's probably generous in comparison with my class. yeah ah yeah yeah yeah I mean, chefs in general, really, to be honest with you.
00:31:31
Speaker
um Even now, you know, as as soft as the industry has gone. That's a little bit of a frustrating one as well. When I see how the industry has changed for the better, but then when you get these young chefs and they come in and they're still frightened away by it. and it That bit is a little bit frustrating because, you know, we've moved heaven and earth to kind of change things for the better, but it's still kind of,
00:31:58
Speaker
not, they're not able to deal with it. And, you know, maybe, maybe that's just because of my history and the things I've seen and, you know, how I got to work. So yeah.
00:32:10
Speaker
I wonder if there's a ah middle ground because I feel like if it becomes too, I don't like saying soft in the kitchen, but I don't have a better word for it. I feel like if it becomes too much like that, then the next generation of chefs, we're not going to have sort of the the big names in the industry that are going to push and go forward because they're not necessarily going to have the environment that's going to make them thrive. but At the same point, if it's like what it was 25 years ago, then we're not going to have anyone in the industry. So there must be a fine balance between the two. How do you find that with many of your younger? Now we'll ask, what is a big name in the industry now? You know, big name in the industry back then for me was.
00:32:51
Speaker
Phil Howard, Daniel Clifford, Claude Bosey, it was, you know, it was the boys that had read, you know, it's kind of Tom Aitkins was coming through at the time and stuff like that. They were the chefs. But what is a big name in the industry now with social media and influencers and um people who do home cooking and have millions of followers on kind of Instagram and TikTok and stuff like that. And I think it has diversified what these, gentlemen the current generation of chefs coming through want from life. Because all we used to talk about was, you know, the Lanesboro wasn't, you know, two roads at a restaurant. And all we talked about was whether we're going to go work in a Michelin star restaurant or not. That was the conversation most of the time.
00:33:41
Speaker
You know, if the football was on, the boys would talk about football until it was off, and then it would go back to, you know, the this guy was going to go, oh, he's going to go work at Putney Bridge, and they've had a star for this. And then, you know, he knows a guy that's just left a Michelin star. He's going to come and, you know, he's going to give his hand for a few weeks. And, you know, he was that kind of, now it's kind of, you don't hear that chat from young chefs, you know, you you don't hear it. And um which is a shame because,
00:34:11
Speaker
I don't want to say we're better than other restaurants. We're different. you know We have different focuses. you know And um we do work harder than other restaurants, are so more relaxed dining and stuff like that. And it's it's a shame that um culturally, they they they don't want to be the best they can. you know they they want to They want to see and do kind of Yeah, different things. So it's a lot more diverse now. It's not kind of that unidirectional kind of that's what, you know, all chefs should do almost. Yeah. What was it like getting the Michelin star?
Receiving the Michelin Star
00:34:51
Speaker
Unbelievable. is is yeah ah You're just about to just brief in at Friday lunchtime and I just called brief in, front of I was gathering and I just checked my emails and I got this email from Michelin to my personal email account and asked me to be in London friday Monday morning.
00:35:10
Speaker
And I just, I thought it was a piss taken, you know, I clicked on where the email had come from, expecting a load of numbers or something. I you always got some kind of ah spoof account and no, it was. And I went through the thing and I accepted the invitation and I got a confirmation and I was kind of, yeah, it it was.
00:35:32
Speaker
You know, I never came here with a thought of, oh, I am going to win a Michelin star. You know, it was it was a bucket list type thing. It was something we could work towards. And who knows, maybe one day it would happen. And yeah, when it happened, it bloody blew me away, to be fair. Yeah. Did you tell your team when you got the email? Well, I rang Neil and Zoe first, and then, yeah, I dragged my restaurant manager in after briefing.
00:36:01
Speaker
told her on my sommelier at the time and yeah, tears of joy. yeah I bet they must have been very excited. yeah yeah yeah what was the What was going to the ceremony like? um The same as the following two years really, I just felt like a bit of an imposter. The names I reeled off before, you know the the giants of the industry, you're seeing all these people walk around and just kind of knowing their restaurants and stuff. And I'm just kind of this guy from North Wales, that was up you know, as a restaurant in South Wales, you know this you know, just kind of in this room and just kind of, yeah, and like not knowing what to do really. And kind of, you know, all the top boys, they know each other because they've been going to these ceremonies for years and they have friendships outside and stuff like that. And I'm just kind of sat there like,
00:36:59
Speaker
you know just yeah it was yeah it takes a few years to get get used to it really. Did it change anything for you in the way that you operated once you've been awarded the song? No we were we didn't I mean, we've increased prices now, but that's more things to do with inflation and you know the the direction a restaurant has taken ah the the journey. But at the time, we didn't increase prices. We kept absolutely everything the same. Because at the end of the day, that's what we were awarded for. um you know the The five years since has been a gentle natural progression of being customer focused.
00:37:40
Speaker
just still doing using local produce and still doing you know seasonal, fresh, great cooking that we've always done, really. How has the menu changed from when you first started at Beach House to now? Like when you you talk about the natural progression, when you look back to, because you got the star in 2020, right? Yeah. How long had you been at Beach House before that?
00:38:05
Speaker
2016 we opened, June 2016, so we've been open four years. um So yeah, I think yeah the reveal was end of 2019, the reveal was for 2020. So we've been open just over three and a half years really, um when it got the notification and how's it changed? Yeah.
00:38:29
Speaker
daily, bit by bit, not much. But if you if you look, the journey over kind of eight years, eight plus years, it's changed a lot. I mean, we we had a kids menu when we first opened doing, you know, ah because of the location. You know, we we had to open quite sensibly because of the location and there's no other a restaurant quite like this and in the local area. and A firm believer, if we don't open doing what we do today, we'd never had have survived because we we would have alienated so many people. We had to create a destination restaurant where people knew about us and they make an effort to get here, which is what people do now. So yeah, how's it changed? I mean, we were, you know,
00:39:16
Speaker
of it, we were, you know, better than a brasserie type thing, but it you know, it was simple cooking and kind of We might have had one or two adventurous dishes on or we might have one venison dish on and everything else would be more kind of mainstream. Whereas now it's, you know, partridge is on, venison is on, kind of, we we literally put whatever we want on and people know the brand and they trust us and they enjoy the food to the point where kind of they, I'm not saying they'll try anything, but there's enough of a scope there for them.
00:39:55
Speaker
And they love what we do, so yeah. It must be nice to have um that freedom, I guess, from from when you start and you kind of have to, you still have to please the public now, I imagine, but before it was very much trying to get people's trust to where you are now, where you have people's trust and you can have that freedom to put different things on.
00:40:15
Speaker
Yeah, I always knew it was going to be a journey. I always knew it, you know, and I love, I love going through the process and love being able to bring people along the journey with us and kind of, you know, you might have a table and one person's a bit fussy and they they they want that really simple dish, whatever it may be back then. And then they'll come next time and, you know, they're friends of, oh they won't taste the menu, so they go taste the menu and then they try
00:40:47
Speaker
whatever they try, they try a bit of grouse and then they're like, this is quite nice actually. And then they'll come back next time and they might try something else and you know, people in their, you know, 40s, 50s and 60s and youre you're opening up their palette into something that they've kind of, they've thought they've never liked their whole life, you know, and it is great to not only progress the restaurant but bring our customers along as well. Is it a very seasonal restaurant?
00:41:17
Speaker
In terms of business? Yes, sorry. Absolutely. So yeah, yeah. Summer's easy. Summer looks after itself. We're pretty much full every day over summer. This time of year fluctuates. We'd be quite midweek. Weekends are, you know, weekends are weekends. Weekends are good. um So yeah, there is a seasonality to it. This, you know, midweek this time of year, it's easy to get a table. How do you try and draw in that crowd for the for the winter midweeks?
00:41:45
Speaker
I mean, yeah, we do we do we do kind of like a lunch off the weekday lunches. Now, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, their lunch. We take the price off the aller car a little bit and get people in that way. um You know, try doing social media, do, you know, more TV as it comes along, you know, and just kind of. Yeah, and ah I never want to be that kind of gimmicky chefs that follows trends just to get on.
00:42:14
Speaker
um jump on a bit of a hype train and kind of yeah it's it's it's not me you know it's kind of I want to I love cooking the food that we love cooking here and that's what makes us unique really and that's that's what I want to stick to yeah It's a slippery slope following trends because they change so quickly. you know you can You can be the hottest thing in the world for 10 minutes and then 10 minutes later it's changed. There's so many restaurants out there that open and the last six months, they last a year, they last a couple of years. you know and um Every restaurant has a shelf life. you know No restaurant lasts forever. It's it's practically impossible. you know
00:42:56
Speaker
you know either they can financially viable business partners, you know, pass away, they want to go and do something else or whatever it is, you know, and ah the last few years have been absolutely no exception to that, really. You mentioned um about TV. Yeah. What was this great British
Impact of Great British Menu Appearance
00:43:16
Speaker
menu like? Was it something that you had wanted to do for a while or did it kind of just pop up? I always said I would never do it until I win a star.
00:43:27
Speaker
And every honestly, if that year, everything came together. we yeah star three dollarss there we I was on GBN two years running. I had a TV program I was filming in Welsh as well, called The Food Show, Showy Void.
00:43:44
Speaker
um And it it was just, it was a crazy moment. And kind of, it was, it was just, it skyrocketed the business, to be honest with you. It was just all that stuff together. Just, yeah. Yeah. It was, was amazing, really. What was your theme on your first year of GBM? I can't remember. I've got a clue.
00:44:16
Speaker
What about the second year? ah it I think it was children's book or something, the second year. I read that somewhere. Yeah, so it's something to do with that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think it was children's books. I think so. I have a bad memory. One of them late nights have caught up with me. I'll fact check it later. yeah what What was the experience like?
00:44:40
Speaker
I was quite fortunate because I'd done quite a bit of Welsh TV before, so I'd take that as my media training, really. ah you know GBM was a bit of a bigger beast, obviously, than kind of the the relatively small film crew that used to turn up with them, um with ah with a Welsh TV. But it it was was good, in a way, and to kind of realize that, first and foremost, it's a TV program about cooking.
00:45:09
Speaker
You know, the cooking is important, absolutely, and that's what they're filming, but they they just want to make great TV, you know, and to kind of take my time and to kind of try to deliver a balance of great cooking and a great story, you know, both years, I really try my best with that, really, ah you know, especially with ah with building in the props. and trying to get the balance and the story. and yeah it was yeah It was good fun, to be fair. And you know what? It's great being in the room with you know all the other chefs and meeting the other chefs. and kind of yeah you know yeah you You don't come across many like-minded chefs on a beach and wine. So it was it was it was a good moment to kind of yeah go there and have a chat and be in the same room with them. so
00:46:03
Speaker
Was it a lot of pressure? Were you nervous? No, I don't typically get nervous. I don't know why. but it's It's just in my nature. You know, I feel pressure at times, but not kind of, yeah, I don't get kind of butterflies in my stomach and, you know, kind of, yeah. Yeah, I love pushing myself to do stuff. So yeah, it was good.
00:46:29
Speaker
That's lucky. I felt like I was going to be sick on MasterChef most of the time. yeah Especially at Chef's Table. That was um yeah that was something else. that was terify yeah You were at the Chef's Table dinner, weren't you? Yeah, I was. How did you find it? Don't speak about my dish, but how did you find it? No, see again, I think it was a great experience. You know, i I had the great side that time, you know, sat down, having lunch, mucked after for the afternoon. i mean Yeah, I definitely didn't have the the rough ride that you guys had in the kitchen. yeah I mean, when you came out and you saw the the room full of chefs, it kind of reminded of me of kind of what I guess I would have felt when I went to the Michelin Awards. you know ah is Is it really tough in the kitchen when you do that?
00:47:18
Speaker
Oh yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. It's, um, it's hard because you feel like you have all the time in the world, but also no time. Like when they tell you you've got three hours to prep it, you're like, okay, I can do this three hours. There's nothing I can't achieve in three hours. And then you get there and it's, it's like you said about it being a TV show, it's the filming, it's them telling you, can you just close and open the oven again? So you get a shot of that and it's in the three hours plus the filming so it's probably more like an hour and a half really.
00:47:50
Speaker
yeah yes And it was um I mean I didn't grow up here but I grew up sort of seeing all of these Michelin star chefs and you know through Instagram and some of my idols were in that room and the idea of walking up there and having them speak to me about a dish that I just tried to pump out in in three hours. um Absolutely terrifying to say I was shitting myself would be an understatement. and um But once once I got up there, it was bloody lovely. I kind of stood back and realized where I was in this space and in this world and being like, this is never going to happen again. So just take it. But yeah, terrifying. and I think that's one thing that viewers don't appreciate kind of
00:48:35
Speaker
how a professional kitchen operates in terms of if you're making a sauce that you know the chicken stock goes on today then or whatever a stock it is and then you make your sauce the next day then you rest it take the fat off then you reduce it and it is a labor of love of four days really to get to there and then you know you go on this program is right you've got four hours to do this and it's kind of You have to speed everything up and just kind of, you know, you make an ice cream, you you infuse the milk, you kind of make the ice cream at the night before you go home, you rest it 24 hours, then you freeze it, freeze it overnight. So an ice cream is three days in a professional kitchen in in reality, ah two to three days, but depends on what you're making, you know.
00:49:21
Speaker
and it you know, to then try and do that at home, sorry, in the in the TV programme for, you know, a room full of chefs is ah is it' remarkable, really, and then to kind of try and stay composed to, you don't want to look an idiot on TV, do you know, you want to you want to you know what you want to do a good job and you want to look like you know what you're doing and I feel for the guys that get flustered on on these shows and, you know, because I've been there and I've seen it and I've seen how easy it is for stuff to derail. And there's nothing you can do about it. Once once it goes wrong, you're in such time pressure. There's literally nothing you can do about it. And then you are just, you're on for the journey then. Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's a journey. It's ah it's a bumpy ride sometimes. But yeah, I think that's something that we tend to forget, like, especially at the point of chef's table is you guys know that we haven't been able to spend making four days making a sauce, you know, but in our heads we're like, oh my God, these people are going to try it. It's not going to taste how it should, but I mean, yeah, we know that you know that and you know that, but in the moment you're like, it's not perfect.
00:50:37
Speaker
But that's what makes chefs chefs is the fact that, you know, they they they're almost with theirself about kind of what they're producing and they want to make it better next time. And they want to kind of, you know, progress and they want to kind of just, you know, do do a great job every time. So it's an important kind of um personality trait to have.
00:51:05
Speaker
Would you go back again to Great British Menu or to Chef's Table on Martyr Chef? Chef's Table was easy. I do that every year. Great British Menu. I don't know. Would I do it again? I don't know. I feel kind of I did that for two years. I think I'll leave it to the young guns now, really. I get enough other stuff come my way these days, really.
00:51:35
Speaker
how long does it How long do you get between knowing what your brief is for Great British Menu and actually going to your first day of filming? It's not long. It's a few weeks. I think it was six or seven weeks, really. Which if you think about it, it's not too bad. But then you're trying to run a restaurant. We were open five days a week back then. um Plus then not all your ideas are good ideas. So most of your ideas go in the bin.
00:52:05
Speaker
Then you've got to get the props built, or like me, build them yourself, most of them. And it's just kind of, you've got to practice and you've got to make things make sense and you've got to get things printed and um you've got to practice it. You've got to be able to do it in there a lot of time. You've got to, it is a tough time schedule, I'd be honest with you. Yeah. yeah I think building the props would be the hardest part for me, or or even finding the right person to build them for you. Do they give you any kind of direction on, like, you could use this person? Nothing. No, no, nothing. So in the second year when, what was it second year? Second year, I did the, what was it second year? I think it was second year. Well, sorry, second year. Yeah, it was second year. So I did theeve the lamb in the blast furnace.
00:52:57
Speaker
Yeah, so that glass furnace, I finished, we were filming on Monday and I finished building it because it was, COVID shut us down. I think we had a two week fire break before or something. But anyway, I was off for the Saturday. Yeah, because I think we shut down on the Friday.
00:53:18
Speaker
Yes, so I finished building it Saturday night and I finished painting it. No, I finished building it Sunday morning. And I actually got a piece of metal onto the onto the skin of my eye, had to go to the emergency room to get it removed. So my bright eye was totally blurry all the way through filming that program. And then after I come back, I finished painting it, getting everything together. um Because of that, I couldn't go and get a chopping board. So I had to cut down the chopping board I had at home to make it fit and kind of, it was just, yeah.
00:53:56
Speaker
It was just crazy to be fair and just kind of, yeah, I was kind of, I had no route, my car was to the rafters going down. I had no idea how I fit everything in there and kind of, you know, reasonably, you know, big car and, you know, to try and get all the props in and everything. And yeah, yeah, that was, that was a prop and a half to be fair.
00:54:23
Speaker
That's crazy that you built it yourself though. yeah yeah i You must be pretty handy to be able to build all the props yourself. Yeah, I mean, most most maintenance I do here. I've got tools in my in my office half the time and kind of, yeah, but um but I've always kind of been quite handy and hands-on and um I'm quite practically minded so I can look at stuff in that kind of way and just kind of, because I'm quite creative, I can kind of visualise stuff, you know, you design a dish, it's the same as designing other stuff really and you can kind of put it together in your head and just kind of do it. So that was really a plus side for me really on that, yeah. Do you have any moments that you really struggled with on there?
00:55:23
Speaker
I mean, don't get me wrong, it wasn't easy. None of it was easy. None of it at all, you know, and it was all a big push from all of it, you know, um but I enjoyed it thoroughly. So it's kind of, though there was no real, there's no real negative really. ah
00:55:41
Speaker
I've always say I've always I've wanted to ask from the very start. Yeah. What kind of cooking did you did you do when you were like you said you were cooking for your family? Yeah. What did what did that look like? What were your dishes that you're cooking for your family when you're a kid? What's a typical Welsh meal? I mean, traditional Welsh dishes are very homely, you know, you got stews and then you've got you know Welsh cakes, which is a little current kind of cake, like a scone that's cooked on ah a solid top and stuff like that. You got butter brief and then, you know, my my my mum would make pea and ham soup and really kind of heavy, homely kind of stuff like that. And then I would, I would see Paul Rankin do a risotto and I'd be like, a risotto? What is this? And then I'd kind of look at her
00:56:34
Speaker
right so they get these little rice and you know I'd seen pudding rice and I'd seen long grain rice before I thought right it's kind of rolly or arboreal rice and right okay so this is like sweet small rice I thought at the time and you know was it was quite exotic at the time you know I mean you know fast forward now result was kind of Yeah. um And then, yeah, just finding this stuff out and kind of, yeah, just trying to make my own pizzas and kind of all sorts of different stuff. And obviously, you know, my parents didn't have the equipment that you need to kind of, you know, or even the equipment I have at home now, you know, like a planetary mixer and stuff like that that. You know, chefs have at home these days, you know, but um yeah, just kind of opening my eyes to kind of
00:57:22
Speaker
yeah really, really different techniques and way of cooking, really. And, you know, most of them are probably messed up at the time, but it's, it was, it was the beginning
Evolution of the British Food Scene
00:57:32
Speaker
of the journey, really. like Do you think that the British food scene is now being put on the world map more? Yeah, without, without question. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it is, it's very much infusion cooking, if you can call it really, you know, is probably A lot of it traditionally is based on French cooking really and now obviously Japanese influence is really coming in with, you know, all your different types of stuff. So he yeah, I think it's a really modern melting pot of loads of different cultures. And yeah, I think it's fantastic really.
00:58:10
Speaker
What's your favourite place that you've eaten out in the UK? Ledbury. Ledbury. Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. Yeah. That was a very quick answer. Absolutely. No hesitation without question. Yeah. um I've actually tried booking back in there since I've had the third star, but I can't align that one at the minute. So, yeah. Yeah. Why do you think it's your favourite?
00:58:37
Speaker
I just think
00:58:41
Speaker
It just felt so good when I was there and everything tasted really nice. And, you know, I hate going to restaurants that, you know, the stuff the food looks nice and it doesn't taste the best because, you know, they've they spent so much time plating it or it's gone a bit cold or um there's a technique that one of the chefs love. And, you know, we've we've all designed these dishes that are a bit techie and you know It takes takes a certain type of person to think, right, I put so much effort into it and it's no better for it. you know And I felt none of that there and everything was superb and so everything you got was different and kind of, yeah, just loved everything about it.
00:59:31
Speaker
I think that's very much a modern thing. Um, I don't know if it's because of Instagram or because of, you know, things like that, but there are definitely some places where I've been to where the food, it looks picture perfect. It looks outstanding, but there's just not the flavor to back it up. And I always wonder why that is because our chefs, we should be like, obviously we want it to look pretty, but yeah before anything, it should be flavor, you know? Yeah, the depth of flavour should be there and the whole round, you know, kind of, yeah, it should it should be awesome, you know, and or you get a dish and it is just boring sometimes and you you just think, you guys have put so much effort into this. Why does not one of your chefs turn round and said, I find it a bit boring, maybe maybe they don't have that culture there, you know, but um um yeah.
01:00:29
Speaker
Do you have a creative process in the sense of like, when you're coming up with new dishes and designing the menu and doing a bit of trial and error, do you have a process? Do you find an ingredient that you like that you want to base a dish around or? No, but there's no, there's no kind of set method, you know, because it's creative. You have to, I find I have to be in that mindset and you can't force that mindset, you know, um,
01:00:58
Speaker
might have had a week where a load of things have gone wrong and I need a lot of fix a load of stuff or there's something going on behind the scenes and you need to you know be involved in something else and then you've got to come up with issues but then you're thinking about what's just happened or you know you've got to go screw fix and get something to fix a toilet that's broken or whatever it is. And then to try and be creative at that moment when there's so much other stuff going on is exceptionally difficult. So I think sketching stuff down and just scribbling stuff is quite important for me because it helps kind of it almost gets it out of my head so I don't have to keep on thinking about it.
01:01:46
Speaker
So I'm thinking finger about the partridge dish and, you know, instead of constantly mulling it over, right, let's let's scribble it down so I can forget about it. Because I won't forget about it because I've scribbled it down. And then I can pick it up later and then kind of subconsciously, three or four dishes might come together because I've given myself a bit of that kind of quiet mind really. So yeah, there's there's no kind of, that's how you do it. and But that's that's kind of creativity really, isn't it?
01:02:17
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's a really hard process sometimes when you have to create a menu or create a dish even, and you're just not feeling it. And it's not something that you can force. Like, yeah, you can think, OK, I know this flavor goes with this flavor, and I could put this with this. But it's not something that really sparks you and ignites you and you you know when you have to force it. And you've got to love that dish as well. you know is There's no point in putting the summit on that. You just, as you said, just put it on because it goes together.
01:02:47
Speaker
Yeah of course it goes together but if if you don't, if it doesn't excite you at that moment in time then it's kind of, it just, you know yeah you know, you're cooking it and you don't really love it and you're just a bit, you end up hating it so you've got to love it, it's got to fit in, it's got to, yeah, it's got to tick so many boxes.
01:03:10
Speaker
It's a tough one. I, yeah, I sometimes don't know what to do and we have to come up with a menu and we've got a little bit of a deadline and we're like, I'm not feeling it right now. For me is forget it, forget about it. No matter what the deadline is, just, I just, I just got to forget about it. And it comes to me naturally. Yeah. Maybe I need to go for a walk or something. Go do some foraging. Yeah.
01:03:38
Speaker
Are there any plans for the future in terms of TV or changes to the restaurant? ah TV typically is all last minute. you'll You'll get an email this week because they're in the area and they want to film on Friday next week and you know ah that type of stuff. um But ah there's nothing you know coming up. I haven't filmed anything just yet. um This time of year typically gets pretty quiet with filming. so something will come in the new year, I'm sure it will. And for the restaurant, any exciting or not even exciting, do you see any changes coming up? We went through quite a huge refurb probably two years ago now. The restaurant still looks remarkable. It's a brilliant space. So here in terms of beach houses, just to continually
01:04:29
Speaker
push what we do in terms of the cuisine and the service and um kind of, yeah, just just keep on involving it really. And then a lot of more to the other restaurant. We just rebranded it into a more kind of casual dining and just kind of bring that restaurant along now really and just kind of get out all singing and dancing and using more Welsh products in there and just kind of Yeah, that's it really, just continually evolving what we do in a kind of sensible level and not kind of, you know, go for the boom and bust trends, really. How did you find the restaurant business and industry changed after Covid?
Post-COVID Challenges for Restaurants
01:05:14
Speaker
Covid was, yeah. ah Straight after Covid, everybody wanted a wee. We could have done
01:05:22
Speaker
five times what we we could sit in the restaurant on any given day of the week. I mean, it was just remarkable. um Before COVID, we never had a receptionist. We just kind of did it between kind of the restaurant manager, sister restaurant manager would do reservations and kind of it it would all look after itself. And it just hit us like a train. it was It was just, if somebody told you that would happen, you wouldn't even believe them now.
01:05:52
Speaker
um I think I left after service on Friday night I sat down to go through some emails and reservation requests and I mean we were full for the next month really and um hundreds of emails and I'd gone through most of them it was probably about quarter past that past one by the time I kind of got to them I was back in before seven and there was about 47 emails back in the inbox between half past one and seven in the morning and it was just ah just it just blew me away that you know and it it was kind of yeah and everybody was super grateful to be out and the you know the the six weeks after was
01:06:40
Speaker
everybody was really understanding and they were loving being out. And honestly, after six weeks, it kind of switched. Everybody became ridiculously demanding. And they were annoyed that they had to wait that long to come out. And it was just it just kind of the mood shifted dramatically. You know, we were still doing the same thing and still kind of obviously staffing was tough at the time as well, because Yeah, you know we the recruitment process had stopped and kind of we had nobody in the pipeline and it it was it was brutal to be fair.
01:07:19
Speaker
And then, yeah, it was, yeah, it it was tough. Obviously, costs of stuff skyrocketed. Some stuff doubling, tripling. um Some stuff came down, but not much stuff has always, you know, kind of stayed up there. And obviously, us as a business, we can't just triple our prices because nobody would turn up, you know, so we ah we had to get creative with the menus and just kind of Yeah. ah You know, this industry is lesson after lesson really, isn't it? You know, and curve ball after curve ball and you just got to keep on rolling with them. And that's what we did and kind of, you know. How did you deal with the the customers? Did you have any really smoky customers when you felt that shift? Yeah, but they still come now, you know, they've, you know, I think they've got it out there system and they still come now and
01:08:13
Speaker
They leave us great reviews and they all love it. So it's, it's just, you just got to ah roll with a punch at that point. Not well enough for too long. yeah yeah You talked about staffing. I mean, staffing even around here in Bristol, it's, it's tough. And I've only been in England post COVID. Well, yeah you're in COVID. yeah What is it like where you are? Um, I um don't imagine COVID helped the situation at all.
01:08:40
Speaker
um On a beach in the middle of nowhere, as you would imagine, it is it's impossible. Not impossible, impossible is not the right word. it You're in a big city, you're in London, you know, people kind of work in restaurants for 18 months, two years and they do a little circuit and then they want to go there, they know where they want to go. We we don't have that, you know, we we have to Yeah, we have to recruit. um every Somebody has to you know move their whole life to Swansea to come and work here really.
01:09:11
Speaker
um there's this's kind of there's There's not a culture of finding a restaurant in Swansea, so we don't have ah the pool of them chefs. and a clue you know We get a few young chefs that leave college and stuff like that. They're an aspiring young chef, but we don't get that you know there' the chefs to parties that come for a year and a half, two years because they worked at another restaurant around the corner and then they want to go work at the other restaurant.
01:09:38
Speaker
Um, so yeah, definitely challenging at times, not at times, all the time. So, yeah. Do you have a pretty high staff retention that I imagine if it's sort of in the middle of, not in the middle of nowhere, but more room remote? Yeah, senior team, uh, Dan may have just been with me almost five years now. Uh, Megan started as she's now my restaurant manager and she started as chef to wrong, I think.
01:10:04
Speaker
So she's gone through it. She's been headway to assistant restaurant manager, inter-restaurant manager. She's been here over four years now. um A lot of the other team, matty my team, my Samalia, he's been here since 2018, I think. So he's he's been here a while. So so the the senior team definitely stick like around a lot longer.
01:10:25
Speaker
bit of a family then. yeah yeah
01:10:29
Speaker
um I ask a question that nobody likes answering at the end of each podcast. yeah right here we go It's not that bad, I promise. right If there was one thing that you wish the general public knew about the industry, what would that be? That's easy. The the true cost of running in a restaurant. Yeah, that that is so easy. if You know, I have this conversation with customers that are come back time and time again and they they, you know, we get familiar and, you know, sometimes we have to put prices up and we have to do it. They say, oh, price gone up again. And, you know, you open up to them and they go, oh, okay. I didn't know it was like that, you know, and this, yeah, is you know, ah and energy prices. my My electric bill is over 3,000 pound a month.
01:11:22
Speaker
you know, if you think about that way, it's like, it's a huge cost that we didn't have before COVID, you know, it was a cost, but not as big as it was now, you know, and, you know, you know, can you can you add that onto people's bills, you have to try and be creative and it you know yeah you almost have to be creative every year. you know what i mean Minimum wage is just going up again in April and rightly so because people deserve you know ah a certain wage to live at a certain standard but for us on the other side we have to find a way to cover that cost.
01:11:57
Speaker
And yes, the easy answer is to but put the menu price up. But you put the menu price up every time the electric bill goes up or every time minimum wage goes up or every time the meat goes up or the fish goes up and the fish fluctuates with the weather and stuff like that. you know So if they could really see how difficult it is, I think a lot more people would be understanding. So yeah, I think that's a really easy question to answer really.
01:12:23
Speaker
Yeah, I've seen a comment somewhere recently on, on a magazine article about a chef in Cornwall. yeah Um, and it said something like, uh, why they didn't understand where the price comes from because you pay for the product. And then after that, why are you paying more? And I just, I couldn't answer because I wasn't subscribed to the magazine. or whatever But in my head, I was like, what?
01:12:48
Speaker
yeah Yeah, I mean, you've got your rents, your utilities, your food costs, your beverage costs, your staff costs, your maintenance costs. You know, it's endless. It's endless. So, um you know, it's easy to say that chicken breast is two quid from a supermarket, but that is, you know, the least of the the cost really. Yeah, it's um yes an eye opener once you really delve into it.
01:13:20
Speaker
I like that one. That one's a good one, I think. They've all been good, but I do like that one. Well, thank you so much for coming on and taking the time to to come onto the podcast. It's been really, really lovely speaking to you. It's been lovely speaking with you as well. I'll let you get back to a service and whatever else. We're going to take you out for a walk. And then take my dog out because he comes to work with me every day and then take him out for a little walk. And then, yeah, we get back into dinner service. Perfect. Busy one tonight.
01:13:50
Speaker
Yep. Busy one tonight. Yeah. A few, few bookings in this week. So this week's good week. That's what we like to see. Yeah. I'll let you go back to that, but thank you so much. And hopefully we'll get to chat again soon. Thank you so much. Have a good day. Thanks. Bye.