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12# Astrid Roussel (Astridspetitecuisine) - Fighting imposter syndrome after changing careers
82 Plays3 months ago
On todays episode, we talk to Astrid, an amazing baker that is capturing Cardiffs baking scene.
Astrid didn't start in the most conventional way. She picked up baking during in lockdown, and then had a fast tracked journey (filled with highs and lows as per usual) to opening her own baking business, where she now has a shop and cooks for the pop up scene.
Astrid has had some amazing mentors, and has competed in the London Croisant competition. She shares with us how inflation has hit her, like everyone else, the balance between cooking what you want and cooking what the people want, and why she wants to bring a little slice of her home country (France) to the UK.
Please enjoy, Astrid Roussel.
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Transcript
Astrid's Baking Journey Begins
00:00:00
Speaker
welcome Welcome back to the Check On podcast and on today's check we have one of the most passionate people about all things baked that I have met so far, Astrid Russo. Astrid has captured the taste buds of Cardiff locals with her croissants, panna chocolates and a lot ah numerous amount of other goods.
00:00:19
Speaker
But she was a late comer into the industry, learning a really difficult trade in a short amount of time to then open her own business, Astrid's Petite Cuisine. And today Astrid shares with us how she got to where she is now. So please enjoy Astrid Russo.
00:00:44
Speaker
And we are recording. Hello Astrid, how are you? Hi, how are you? I'm good, thank you, I'm good. Would you mind just introducing yourself to our listeners? So I'm Astrid, I'm French and I've been living in Wales for 16 years, so I'm basically half Welsh now. And um yeah, I have a French bakery in Cardiff, but it's not a shop, it's just ah a kitchen.
00:01:13
Speaker
where I produce croissants and all that sort of things and I teach as well. Oh, you teach as well? Yeah, I teach as well, yeah. Baking classes, yeah. I'm going to have to get into one of those for sure. Whereabouts did you grow up?
00:01:31
Speaker
So in the east of France, it's not quite the Riviera, you see. It's not. It's basically Wales, but in france France. So it's very rainy. It's very green. It's very hilly. But it's the east of France near Germany, Switzerland. ah So yeah. So you moved from one green and rainy place to another then? To another. So yeah, I was abducted already. What made you decide to move to Wales? Love.
00:01:57
Speaker
I know.
00:02:00
Speaker
it's Yeah, it's the typical story of I fell in love with a Welshman and ah six months into a relationship it got to where whether he moves to France and i or I moved to Wales, I spoke English better than he spoke French. So yeah, that was me going over to Wales then. Simple as that then. As simple as that. And you've been there for 16 years now. Yeah, 16.
00:02:27
Speaker
crazy i i love it and I still love I still want to go back to France to live. i'd love to I go back to France all the time to see the family and because especially now that I have kids I want them to be rooted in France as well so to have really that double culture and but ah yeah I don't think I would move back ah to live there 100% because yeah French people are special.
00:02:53
Speaker
I feel like every French person that's left France says that says that they love going back, but they wouldn't they wouldn't move back. it's just I love going back. I really do the culture, the the pace of
Cultural Influences and Adaptations
00:03:05
Speaker
life. that Obviously, there's a family there, there's but there's so many so many things that you know don't fit with who I am now as an adult.
00:03:13
Speaker
especially all the bureaucracy, the red tape, the complaining about everything all the time. Whereas like I think in the UK that's like you have to get on with things and stop questioning things all the time and complaining all the time and I really like that because yeah and yeah in France it's way too belligerent. They are very good at strikes and protests.
00:03:38
Speaker
See, I'm seeing there now. I'm not seeing we anymore. I'm seeing there. Oh, that's true. That's true. yeah you don't You're not one of them, not truly. No. But your baking seems to be. Yes, very much. Well, that's my signature. That's my niche basically here. because Yeah, that's what I started making from the get go. did you You obviously grew up with having different types of French pastries.
00:04:03
Speaker
Yes, so my job as ah as a seven-year-old was to go to the bakery every day. ah My parents gave me Frank's at the time. It wasn't euros, it was Frank's. and That was it. ah The bakery was a street away because in France, I'm sure you've been to France as well, and you know that bakeries are everywhere, but even more so in the 80s and 90s. I think a lot of them are closing down, but that's a different subject.
00:04:30
Speaker
um but yeah so there was there was bakeries everywhere and the one year us was uh a street away so it was my job as a child to go and get bread for the family every single day uh so yeah that was my chore so i definitely grew up on that i didn't grew up on on pastries as such because it was a treat uh so people think we have pastries every day we don't really it's more of a weekend thing or you know a treat thing but Yeah, patisseries, like, yeah, it's it's just part of you don't question it until you don't have it. and But certainly when 16 years ago, when bakeries in the UK were non-existent, because it's very different now. ah But yeah, it's suddenly I didn't have any bread, I didn't have any pastries, and it was very weird to go from one end to another, definitely. On the weekends when you could have your treat and you weren't just getting bread for the family, what would you pick up?
00:05:25
Speaker
and It was always a power of chocolate because that's yet simple but efficient. I have to have chocolate, it's my thing. and If I haven't got chocolate, it's not worth eating. But power of chocolate was definitely the my go-to treat. Not a quite soft enough. I think it was too plain for me. It's just like not enough flavours. But yeah, and I did love ah If I went for a cake and not a pastry, I would go for the opera because it was like coffee and chocolatey at the same time. and Even as a kid, I loved that combo. It's so tasty. It's one of my favorite cakes. yeah I'm not much of a cake person, but opera cake gets me every time. Yeah, it is, isn't it? It's delicate, yet very tasty.
00:06:12
Speaker
did you You said that when you moved here 16 years ago, there wasn't a lot of bakeries around, definitely not doing no things like they were doing in France. Did you feel like you missed that when you first moved here?
00:06:25
Speaker
I did but not on the cake front because I think that got replaced with things I didn't know like brownies and cookies and you know the Victoria sponge and and they I think even 16 years ago there was very much a cafe culture already in the UK that we didn't have in France in terms of going to a coffee shop and having coffee and cake that didn't exist in France at all so that's something that I very quickly tuned in so I was happy with that but i didn't have the bread so that's something that i missed a lot but but in a way i learned to deal with it because um
00:07:02
Speaker
Well, you just don't have it and I was not going to downgrade to something less than good bread. So of course I had my supermarket bread every night then, but it was not something I would have every day and with my husband. We would just buy a loaf of bread, you know, of slice bread that is, you know, the Tesco slice bread that would last three weeks because we just didn't have it. Like we bought it for one occasion and that's it. That was it.
00:07:25
Speaker
ah Whereas now you can find bread much more easily in supermarkets as well but you know but that's another subject because it's not very always good bread but even the one they label sourdough and all that is is quite rich but now you have actual craft bakeries you can get good bread from so it's very different.
00:07:45
Speaker
Do you think that's a trend thing or is it because um you know like a lot of different people have been coming to England and you know kind of it there's more of a need for it now? I wonder why it wasn't there before. I wonder because there's always been a huge French community in the UK. I think at one point they said that London was the second biggest city in terms of ah French community ah like after Paris something silly like this like honestly so I think the community was always there but there was not always the drive to have big like to open bakeries and stuff and I
00:08:22
Speaker
honestly think social media has a lot to do with it. That certainly has a lot to do with how I've started. ah And by social media, I'm not just talking Instagram, I'm talking about YouTube, I'm talking about all the platform that you can get your information from. ah So I think because you didn't have that before, it was very niche to start making bread. You you couldn't just start making bread, you had to go and train somewhere or because it's not something you learn in a book. it's it's not It's just not. You can buy a recipe book ah full of lovely recipes for bread, for pastries, but unless you see how it happens, how it's made, absolutely no way you can do it on your own, especially not make a business out of it, that's for sure.
Learning and Growing Through Baking
00:09:07
Speaker
How did you how did you get into the industry and what were you doing before?
00:09:12
Speaker
so as i As I said, so I loved eating as a child, as an adult, so that that's my background eating. I haven't been able to mind that. But um I never baked, ever at all. And then I was a project manager. Nothing to do with ah the hospitality industry, the the food industry at all. And then I quit my job after the first lockdown.
00:09:40
Speaker
Yes, we all reassessed a few things during lockdown. And one of them was that my job was not fulfilling. And I had two very young kids at the time. So my youngest was 18 months old. My eldest was three. It was just a lot to deal with being full time with a project manager my manager role. My husband was full time. It was just too much. I quit my job. At that point, I did not have any plan. Like I did not know what I was going to do with my life.
00:10:05
Speaker
but with my husband we said well nothing's happening in the world anyway so you might as well take some time out think about it and see what happens so that's why i did i just like took some time out and very quickly i got bored because my my kids are amazing but they're full on so i had to do something with my hands and i tell the story to all the students that come to me and then to learn how to bake because i said if i can make it anybody can ah But I started by doing different types of like I've tried different hobbies like origami, you name it like something to keep my hands busy.
00:10:41
Speaker
and But said nothing stuck quite as much as baking. I started baking because basically I couldn't take the kids back to France. I couldn't take them to the bakery. And I wanted, it again, once you have kids, something happens that is like suddenly you really want your culture or your background to shine through through that to them as well. So I just I wanted to make sure they knew about bread, they knew about pastries, they knew about all this.
00:11:06
Speaker
So I started baking for them and for me, for me to keep busy and for them to have the bread and have the brioche. And that's how it started. I had no plan at all to become a baker, a professional baker at that point. But then I caught the bug. I caught the baking bug and I started baking more and more. and I just couldn't stop and I ah built a business around it. So you were basically like most people, they got the sourdough bug, but you just took it a million steps further.
00:11:36
Speaker
I don't know about a million steps but yeah I just like suddenly it felt so i'm so I'm saying suddenly but it took about a year from the point of me baking my own bread to not a year six months I'm lying six months I'm a bit of a hothead so once I get into something I just go a million miles an hour but yeah it took six months between me starting baking and and starting a business it's not like I did it you know straight away But very quickly, I realized, hang on, I'm i'm enjoying this. I was in the incredibly privileged position where I did not have to go back to work. to I'm going to say I'm very you know entitled here, but my husband was earning good money. It was COVID. the you know We didn't spend any money on anything.
00:12:23
Speaker
So I did not have to go back to work at that point. So therefore, it made me reassess what do I want to do? Oh, I don't want to go back to an office. It's a bit boring. I don't want to do that anymore. And so my husband made a passing comment once. I think it was like a few months after I quit my job saying oh you should because i had started baking for for the family And he said, you should make and French brunch, because we had ordered an that afternoon tea. You know how you ordered everything in in ah in COVID? yeah Well, we had all and ah ordered an afternoon tea, and he said, well, you should make a French version of that. You shouldn't make a French brunch. Don't be silly. and'm I'm not going to do that. But then the idea grew, because suddenly I thought, oh, hang on a minute. I could do something that I would
00:13:08
Speaker
and enjoy, not go back to an office. ah Everything would be on my own terms. like like Yeah, that sounds much more appealing than the alternative, which is looking for a job. So again, yeah being a bit, and not a hothead, but like once I get my teeth into something, like I ah can't let go. So I just explore the ah the idea fully. And then ah four years later, here I am.
00:13:35
Speaker
ah You gave us a very quick executive summary, but I imagine there were a lot of steps in those six months from when you first started baking to the decision to to put it out there in the world and and make a business out of it. What were those six months like? Had you baked before?
00:13:51
Speaker
No, no, no. a yeah yeah You know, you always like just like everybody in the world, you make the odd birthday cake for either your friends or your your the half, ah because it's the nice thing to do. Not because it's something you're passionate about. ah And again, I loved eating so I I did have a good idea of the sort of flavors I like, that sort of thing, or what I liked eating, but never baked, and never never ever something that attracted me at all, even even to the point where my family was in absolute disbelief, still is, about what they call my new career, because even if it's been four years, they still can't believe that I'm doing that for a living.
00:14:33
Speaker
ah ah I remember, again, during Covid, taking a walk around the neighbourhood with a friend who knew me well. And I said to to her, it was she was the first person I said to, you know what, I think I'm going to start a baking business. And she looked at me and all she could say was, all right, OK, she because she knows me well. And was I was not a baker, like I was not somebody who just You know, you have the office people that are feeders and they bring cakes to the office. So I was definitely a feeder, but from Tesco, right? So I would bring cakes from Tesco. No, not my own cakes. So it's something that I completely ah did a 360 on, you know, or 180 rather than 360. But again, never a baker before.
00:15:20
Speaker
Was it a hard process? Because, I mean, for me, i'm I'm a chef. I've done a little bit of time in pastry. um And when I say pastry, I mean like restaurant desserts. You know, I can make an ice cream or a creme patissiere. But if you told me to make a croissant or a panache ochola.
00:15:37
Speaker
you would see be sweat. I mean, it is not the easiest, it is a skill. No. So I think I was a little bit um arrogant, I would say, going into the business thinking, yeah, that's fine. I can be a baker.
00:15:53
Speaker
Everybody seems to be doing it from home these days anyway. and I could be a fridge baker, of course I can. No training whatsoever. and I can make a baguette, absolutely. But then I started touching pastries and I'm just, oh, no, I don't know what I'm doing.
00:16:08
Speaker
and So yeah, it was, there was some arrogance on my part, or maybe delusion, call it what you will. ah But when I started the business, I thought, yeah, I can do this, no problem. But the learning curve was very steep, because it's not like I could bake everything from the moment I started the business, I definitely learned on the job every week. And I, I got quite um ah what's the word, ah I wanted more very quickly. So instead of having one product or two products, I suddenly thought, that's a good idea. I'm going to every week going to do ah what I call the Sunday box of five different French desserts or five different French items. It was three cakes, one savory bake and a baguette every week being different.
00:16:57
Speaker
I don't know why I thought I could put it, but I did to a certain level of, I don't know. Was I successful? People liked it. But when I look back, I think, oh my God, I sold that. um So there's definitely the learning curve, I think, came not before I started the business, but after I started the business. Because I was comfortable in my kitchen before thinking I could do it, which pushed me to make the business. But then once I actually started it, it's like, oh, actually, I don't know much.
00:17:27
Speaker
Um, so yeah, the loading curve came after, but I don't know if it's the right thing to do, but I definitely ran before I could walk on that one. I think it's what a lot of people do though. Like even for us, when we started our own business, it was very much like that. We, we went in and we said, we might not know everything, but we're going to make it happen. Um, it's, it's the fun way of doing it, I think. But I think if you question yourself too much, you don't do anything, uh, ever. And I think I got to the point where.
00:17:57
Speaker
I'm not in my 20s, I'm not in my 30s, I'm in my 40s. So if I don't do things quickly, I'm not saying I'm about to die, but if I don't do things quickly now, well, you know, I'm going to be 70 by the time I reap the minute benefit of it. So it's it yeah, you you don't take as much time thinking, but I've never been that type of character that thinks about things too much. I'll just go head first in it. But yeah, you have to just get yourself the credit to just try.
00:18:26
Speaker
and and maybe fair but who cares you know it's something that i would not have been able to do in my twenties i think there's benefits in starting a business when you're older i'm not saying you're wiser but you know as.
00:18:41
Speaker
I'm not saying failure doesn't ah doesn't affect you, but it doesn't affect you as much because your confidence is built on other things, ah you know your experience of life in the last 40 years. So you don't solely judge yourself on on what you're trying to do. you You know you have other things going for you. So I think there's definitely benefits in still trying to to do things, ah even if you're not and your I'm going to sound really old there, but you're not bright-eyed and bushy-tailed anymore, but you still have a lot to to to do and you do it quickly. You you do it quicker, I think.
00:19:23
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. I think I admire these people that are starting up their own businesses in their early twenties, but I know myself, I wouldn't have had the maturity to do that there's something that. It's like you said, you're not as scared of the failure when you get older because you just take it as another step in the pro and the in the process.
00:19:40
Speaker
That's it. And it's not to say that it's not hard when it happens. Of course it is. like i ah I've cried tears of failing a bake at the beginning. ah you know I don't cry anymore about that. It's like, oh shit, I you know i messed up a bake. But at at the start, I really cried might like tears because I was about to get put something in a box and it didn't turn out the way I wanted it. So it's more tears of frustration and that sort of thing. but It never stopped me from baking again the next week. And I think that resilience, you build it with time. You don't build it with anything but experience and time. So it's very hard to be that resilient when you're 20. It's easier, not easy, but easier when you get older, I think. So, but yeah, you do like, you definitely do things more quickly. I think you have to, because otherwise you just, yeah, you missed it. You missed it.
00:20:36
Speaker
You missed the the gate, you missed the the opportunity then if you wait too long. I totally agree with that. How did you, how did you perfect your skills? Um, because like I said before, you're doing some very, some, some technical things that make most people sweat at the thought of it. How did you perfect those things like, like puff pastry for prasant a So that's, you know what, it's, it's still an ongoing thing. I don't think I know one baker who's going to say, yeah, I've nailed the croissant, never to, uh, to learn anything from it again. Cause with every batch you still learn, but.
00:21:11
Speaker
As I say at the start, I think YouTube has a lot to answer for on that one. So I just watched hours, hours of tutorials, sometimes the same tutorial, and repeatedly posing and stopping and looking and measuring and all this. So that was, again, that was towards the the tail end of COVID when you couldn't you know meet a bit anybody. So, you know, all you you had to do was watch things online. That that's so that was your your go-to thing.
00:21:41
Speaker
I definitely start it like that and then there's no secret, it's every batch teaches you something else and I've made hundreds, thousands and thousands of batches now and I'm still learning but so and that's why I keep telling people if you want to learn something you don't need to necessarily to go to fancy cookery schools or culinary schools and and like you just have to Try and try, it's like it's just just trying, trying trial and errors and ah and YouTube. But then obviously there's a point where YouTube two can only teach you so much.
Community and Collaboration in Baking
00:22:20
Speaker
And I was incredibly lucky to, because something again, I think,
00:22:25
Speaker
I don't know if it's age, but I was never scared to ask other people's opinions or advice like other bakers I'm talking. So I would chat to various bakers I would see online and Instagram to get to know them, to have some tips on them. So I never shied away from asking for help ever.
00:22:48
Speaker
So I think it's very important because if you stay in your own bubble, that's it. I think you're done. ah But you have to ask for help because you you definitely you don't know anything. Even if you think, you know, you don't find a shade away from asking ah people for help. ah So, you know, and there was that one ah French baker who I learned everything from in terms of bread on YouTube.
00:23:11
Speaker
And I started talking to him on Instagram, and I think it was, ah we met at a show, a food show in Lyon de Sierra, I don't know if you if you if you know that show. So I went there two years ago, we met, and and then we we we carried out chatting, and he's ah he's a very, he's an excellent baker. We also used to teach baking in CFA ah say fine France, in there in schools.
00:23:39
Speaker
So ah he knew everything there was to know about pastries and about bread. And he came over to Cardiff and he taught me a lot, face to it like he came for for four days. And he taught me so much. ah At that point, I had learnt a lot already, but on my own on my own with YouTube.
00:23:55
Speaker
And then suddenly I had somebody who was super experienced, super good in this field, and who was teaching me live how to do things. ah So even more techniques. So that's how I learned to do even more. And then again, it's repetition. The more you do it, the more you read about it, the more you You know, that's that's how you learn. And then I did a few work experience here and there, different bakeries in France, in the UK. And yeah, you soak in the other people's experience and knowledge. And that's how you learn, I think. ah Because, yeah, obviously, YouTube can only teach teach you so much, obviously.
00:24:31
Speaker
Yeah, YouTube's a really good base to learn how to start something. yeah But having someone there to show you things that you might not have seen and just little details that you might not have noticed, that must have been really invaluable. And you know what it's like, it's in the food industry, ah but I'm not a chef. What's so like in the sense that I hate cooking, sorry, since I should have, have ah you know, when you asked me for my intro, I should have said, Oh, by the way, I hate cooking.
00:24:57
Speaker
I should have said thank you for coming on you. We're we're done now, sorry. ah But i'm not in in our family, my husband's the cook. I'm not, I'm just like, yeah. it yeah Anyway, point is, ah what was our point? Oh yeah, with with with food, ah it's tactile, right? You learn by the textures, whether it's in your mouth or in your between your hands. So a lot of it, you know that something is right about how it feels.
00:25:26
Speaker
ah how it looks in real, not on a screen, how it looks in real and how it feels. So that you can't learn on a screen, definitely. and yeah it's it's My advice to anybody that wants to start baking is that absolutely watch all the videos you want, but then just ask your local bakeries or, you know, restaurants, if you want to be a ah chef, can I come for work experience? Can I just observe? Can I just just stand there in the background and whether, you know, you can ask questions is great. But that's the only way you can learn is by being there physically with the people that do things, ah but not necessarily
00:26:04
Speaker
and it's a bit controversial but not necessarily attending a super expensive cookery school where you learn the basis, fine, but it's not with the practicality of it, it's not with the reality. It doesn't always translate into the kitchen, I think, and you spend a lot of money on something that is great. I'm not just saying that, I'm just saying that if you don't have ah ah but jet for that you can still learn
00:26:35
Speaker
you can still be good at what you do by just you know going to to see people in the kitchen, in the bakery, and learning from them straight away, not as a ah opposed to the school.
00:26:48
Speaker
Absolutely. I think any young chef that I speak to when they ask me, do I think they should do any kind of work experience? My answer is always yes. Always. Absolutely. You're 95% sure that the restaurant is going to say yes, because we're all about encouraging people to come into the industry. But there's just, it's so invaluable to go into different places and see how they do things. Cause you might have five different places you go to and see five different ways of doing the same thing. Like it's, it's so amazing to see. Yeah, absolutely. And I always tell people there's not like, when I teach, I say that's my way of doing it.
00:27:23
Speaker
It's not the way, it's my way. And you never diss somebody else's work because they're different to yours. It's just, but the the fact that this person does it this way and you do it that way means that the next person might do it and a different way. But all of this means that you perfect your craft and and you know you just you get to know who you want to be as a baker, about a baker or a chef or whoever. But yeah, there's not one way of doing things. but yeah's taking things from all angles that will make you who you will be as a chef or a baker. What places did you go to when you when you did Stages and work experience? um So I went to, um there's a bakery in Chatham called La Boulangerie Artisan.
00:28:13
Speaker
who is owned by a French, a lovely French guy called Raoul. And I contacted him and said, I have my own bakery in Cardiff, but I want to learn more. Can I come and observe? I'll help if I can. If you want me to help, I'll help. If you want me to sit in the background, I'll sit in the background. And he was very kind to say, yeah, absolutely, come for a come for a try. Or not for a try, sorry, come for a shift.
00:28:42
Speaker
ah So I did that a few times and it was really because it might not be the way I do things, but it's it's the way that's so efficient because they have thousands and thousands of pastries every day because they're so successful. i you know i'm I'm in a small playground. you know You have the baby playground and the big boys playground. I'm in the baby playground. They're the big boys playground. and I sell maybe you know at a pop-up, I would sell 200 pastries, and I'm so happy with myself. Like, oh, 200 pastries. And they sell a thousand a day, more than that. And I'm just like, oh my goodness. And so they have to keep up with that demand. And to see how they do that is very enlightening, because that's not the way I did it, because I'm way too slow for
00:29:29
Speaker
to produce that many pastries. But if you did it their way, then you faster. So it's it's just it was really enlightening. I loved it. And the team day is just so lovely. ah So I did that. I did ah in France, I followed a baker called Anthony.
00:29:47
Speaker
And he's really, really good. is ah but um I said I followed because he's self-employed. So he works in a restaurant, a really high-end restaurant that does brunches and stuff. So he does all the pastries and also he stays for the service, for the for the lunch and dinner service for to dress all the the desserts because he makes desserts for that restaurant. But in between services, he goes to a local bakery where he makes the pastries for.
00:30:14
Speaker
So he he travels, I know, he travels around Paris, he he does, I'm not joking, he does 18 hours a day of of work, he's he's mental, but he's he's amazing and he's really ah giving in the way he yeah he teaches you and you know passes on knowledge and I followed him for four or five days in Paris in September and he was amazing because again you learn new things, new ways of doing things and it's just very valuable and then there was that French baker Fabrice who I learnt everything from on YouTube that came to me so I didn't go to him but he came to me and taught me loads of things as well. So that's it really.
00:30:55
Speaker
That's incredible though, like really, really incredible. What do you, and it's a bit of a hard question, but is there something that you find you really took away from all those experiences? So I think, it's a hard question because apart from the, obviously it's the technical side of things, obviously, but also the,
00:31:18
Speaker
the just the generosity of of people. I don't know if it's every industry. I haven't been in a in a kitchen, I think in the in a restaurant kitchen, for example. But the only time i've I've been to a restaurant kitchen is in Paris, where that baker was doing the brunches and the desserts, but I was with the kitchen staff. And they were super, you know, generous as well. It's just like, Oh, do you want to taste the lamb? It's like, Oh, yeah, we'll taste the lamb. But it's just the generosity of sharing the the secret. So the the techniques and all that. And that
00:31:53
Speaker
that makes me want as a baker and as somebody that I'm not saying that people look up to me but I've had people at all at all I'm not saying that at all ba but but I have I've had some like junior bakers who have come to me and say oh how would asking me questions which is quite funny because four years ago that was me asking questions to a lot of bakers but now like I've been you know asked questions and I always make a point of answering every single question because You can't be on your high horse thinking you you know everything and you have to pass that on. You can't guard your secrets. There's no secret. It's baking. You know what I mean? It's been done before. nothing Nothing is new. It's just a different recipe of the same ingredients that has been done before anywhere by somebody else. It just hasn't been published maybe. But what I mean is nothing's a secret. It shouldn't be. It's not. It's baking.
00:32:41
Speaker
so I think it's very important not to be too coy and say, oh, this is my recipe and this is my thing and this is my, my techniques. Like I just share, just share with everybody that wants to know. Uh, I think that's really important because like you can, you know, the Indian industry, there's a lot of egos. And I think if I'm honest, from what I've seen in the baking industry, there's maybe slightly less ego than the, the kitchen, the, the the chef.
00:33:13
Speaker
And the reason I know this is not because I've been in kitchens, but because a lot of my baker friends are ex-chefs that turn into bakers or that to you know that turn to baking where they've burnt out from chefing. And they definitely all say to me, yeah, the the kitchen can be quite toxic in the environment, in the in the egos that run in the kitchens. But the baking world is a little bit more mellow. It's a bit more calm, I would say. Obviously, you have some arseholes everywhere. But yeah as ah as as as a rule, I think the baking world is quite generous, but I think you can be even more generous. It's just, I think, yeah, you have to share everything you know with whoever wants to know. I think that's the base of it, really. But yeah.
00:34:07
Speaker
I think as a general, ah like the whole industry, inclusive, bakers, chefs, everyone, I think it kind of, when it's when it's perfect, it just feels like a big family. Like I can message someone who I've never met before and say, sit I've seen you've done this on Instagram. That looks like an amazing recipe. Can you share it? And 99% sure they're going to. people it's People, I think the general public have this weird misconception that we're really protective over our recipes. and you know Chances are it's handed down five times before I got to... Exactly. Yeah, nothing's new. I know in baking, definitely. You know you can have
00:34:48
Speaker
but flavors you know flavors are flavors you're not going to come up with a new fruit all of a sudden uh it's just uh yeah so i think sharing is very important but there's still people that i know that right i stay away from them but they're not going to they both be basically going to blank you and it's not because they don't want to share but but because they think they're better than you so Yeah, I just try to stay away from these people that just yeah think to that they rule the world of you know baking or, you know, chefing or whatever, or, you know, any world, you know, that applies to any industry. But yeah, I think, I don't know about you, but like, I find that
00:35:34
Speaker
connecting with people especially when you're a load baker ah ah you know, connecting an Instagram with people. That's my only way of having a ah fake office life because I don't have colleagues. I do now have a couple of girls that work for me and they're fantastic. But like at the start, Instagram was my my my office space.
00:35:54
Speaker
So it's just I would talk to them as as if I talked to colleagues, you know, you know, checking in every night and that's, how are you doing today? ah Just for chat because you don't you work on your own in the kitchen and it's very lonely. I don't know about you, but I find it really lonely at times. So it's nice to have that community around you that you know, those people you can talk to and they and you know, they're going to be awake at 2am or 3am. You know, so yeah.
00:36:20
Speaker
ah yeah that's I think, and it's nice for that reason, I think Instagram, ah I don't use Facebook much, but Instagram definitely has that good points and back points, obviously. But I think for me, it's been mostly positive because of that, because otherwise you're just on your own somewhere way and you don't know what you're doing. just You need to talk to people to keep your sanity, even if it's not to share recipes, but to share you know, commiserate in certain things, you know, when a bait goes wrong or, you know, you need you need people to understand what that means.
00:36:53
Speaker
Absolutely. There's nothing better than having something fail and sending it to a friend that's in the industry and just having a bit of a laugh about it and bringing a little bit of levity to the situation, I guess. And that's always a fun thing to share. No, that's it. And I think I love that my husband is not in the industry because he keeps me grounded in other ways. Like when I complain to him about something else, he's like, and what, what, what does that mean? Like, you know, he doesn't know that he doesn't care, but he doesn't understand where I'm coming from. Whereas you know So I like that, but I like the fact that I can talk to anybody on Instagram at any time of the day and they're going to understand where I'm coming from. So yeah.
Navigating Challenges and Success
00:37:31
Speaker
You spoke before about there being some not so supportive people in the industry. you don't have to You don't have to name and shame, but what were your experiences with that? It's just, are either people blocking you for whatever reason? I'll talk about blocking people later on. Remind me because this, yeah. ah
00:37:52
Speaker
Instagram and blocking. It's something quite funny. But anyway, and that yeah or just ah being in a room full of bakers and you see that those that really don't want to speak to you because they think they're better.
00:38:05
Speaker
even if you speak to them, you say, oh, yeah, I like what you're doing. something else saying And I said, you know, one would answer. and So, yeah, you just you you spot them a mile away because they're going to ignore you, as opposed to engage with you. And I would say this is the vast minority because ah sorry, the vast majority of people are like 99% are absolutely lovely, but you have the 1%.
00:38:31
Speaker
that just yeah don't think you're you're worthy of the time, basically. i don't know I don't know if it's ego, I don't know if it's... Sometimes it's lack of of confidence as well, and you don't they don't want to expose them. I have no idea, but it's just like, it's a bit sad, I find. Like, I like talking to anybody. um So yeah. I was going to say about blocking. So there's blocking and blocking. So you have people that block you because they, yeah I don't know, they don't want you to see the stories or whatever.
00:39:00
Speaker
I have blocked people, not because I don't want to see the stories, because of who they are, but because of my own sanity. And I don't know if you've been in that ah situation where there are certain phases of my four-year, very long career, ah where I doubted myself, right? I doubted where I was good i was at what I was doing, ah whether I could carry on doing it, whether, you know, ah you know and Basically, yeah, dancing myself, not not thinking I was ah was good enough. And then seeing stories or you know a post of other bakers that were doing well completely hurt my confidence. Not because of them, but because I couldn't be like, yeah, it would just bring me down.
00:39:50
Speaker
So I would, I wouldn't call it blocking, I would just hide the stories or hide the posts, not unfollow them, but like, because I don't want, you know, that to be, but because it's just, it did too much to my own confidence. And that's, but has to do with me, not with them. So I've definitely done that. But I would say,
00:40:11
Speaker
And I say that to my niece, who's much younger, who's 20-odd. If there's any account ah that you follow that doesn't make you feel good about yourself, either unfollow or block the stories, because what's the point otherwise? So I've definitely been guilty of that, but not because of them, because of me and my own insecurities. That makes sense.
00:40:35
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. ah i um I don't know if I've ever done that in terms of a cooking sense, but I've definitely done it with people that, you know, maybe I grew up with and what they're posting doesn't sort of align with my beliefs anymore and doesn't sort of resonate with who I am. So I've definitely done it for things like that, but I'm too nosy. I want to know what all the chefs are doing. No, but being nosy is fine. And I love being nosy, but there's being nosy and being And again, it's it's about your your own insecurities. But when I've seen ah bakers that I've like, even from and and another country, right, they don't have to be next door. ah Bakers that I've followed and then suddenly they're opening up a shop, a new shop and they started like me in the kitchen and they're opening up a shop and they're super be successful. It's like, oh, what's wrong with me? Why haven't I opened a shop?
00:41:29
Speaker
Can I open a shop? Don't I open a shop? You know what I mean? It's just too many questions. So I don't want to see that. It's not because of them, but it's because of me. And it makes me question myself too much. And I think sometimes it's good for inspiration to see what other people are doing, but it's not good for your self-esteem at times. So I definitely block that because I don't want to be in that negative cycle. Or should I be doing that?
00:41:57
Speaker
and And I want to follow my own path. It's just, I don't, let's talk shop. Like I don't want to open a shop. I don't. So I don't want to be tempted, but just because another baker who started the same way I did open the shop, it's not the reason I should open the shop. So.
00:42:14
Speaker
Yeah, I try to stay in my lane and not pay attention too much what other people are doing. But at times, if because of the algorithm, sometimes it's just bombards you with the same thing. I just I have been known of blocking things or blocking people just for that reason, but not because of them.
00:42:31
Speaker
I think that's really self-aware to remove things that are making you question whether you're on the path that you want to be on or not, because it's very tempting when you see somebody doing something sort of in the same vein, but on a different line than you are to think, well, should I be doing that? And questioning your own reasons and sort of destabilizing what you know you want to do, but because you're seeing this picture perfect thing on Instagram, youre thinking you should be doing something else.
00:42:58
Speaker
that's it but you said it it's the word picture perfect and it's just like you know you're not stupid you know that it's picture perfect it's not necessarily the real reality is not like the number of people that come to me because i like to be quite ah um on my instagram right and my stories i'm quite personal son you you get what you you see me it's me it's 100 me like You know, I talk to you much, I overshare, I, you know, it's it's me. And then in the pictures I post, it's always, I try to make them as pretty as possible. I'm quite a visual person, so I try try to make them aesthetic. And then obviously, when I talk about the business, I talk about what I do, not about what I don't do.
00:43:41
Speaker
And then people are you so busy and you it's one of wonderful what you're doing with the business is like, is it like, because there's certainly a lot of moments where I don't do anything, or where I don't particularly find like, I'm not proud of this or proud of that, or I don't think this thing went well.
00:43:59
Speaker
You know i don't talk about it of course i don't nobody on instagram talks about the failures in the dudson you know all that thing and so i think it's you said the word picture perfect you try to be that picture perfect person and you don't realize that. It can affect somebody else's perception of themselves because you post that perfect perfection all the time.
00:44:21
Speaker
ah And that's what you do because you have a business. So I think it would be very different if it was just my own Instagram account, account you know, just for me as a person. But because it's a business, I have to do some like reflect the positives. I can't dwell on the negative because it's a business. But if it was me, I would try to be more measured in the way I post things to show that it's not all beautiful and busy and, you know, with cues down the road and everything, because it's not.
00:44:52
Speaker
at all. But yeah, that's as a business, that's what you you have to do ah to just get people through the door. But you have you have been gaining quite a lot of traction, you know, from where you started. I've been lucky. I've been lucky. I can't all be luck.
00:45:10
Speaker
I think it's, it's a bit of luck. I'm not going to lie. I think it's a bit of luck. And I think if people, yes, I work hard, I work bloody hard. I'm not going to deny that. But other people work bloody hard. I don't get the luck I got, honestly. So I'll tell you, like, I'll give you an example. I talked to that and Instagram, well, YouTube Baker, who is very big, back to my standards. He's very big. So the fact that he answers is not against all odds because he answers us to a lot of people. He's that type of guy who shares and who's very open and you know. and But the fact that I meet him, he comes to Cardiff. He said, it's just me blabbing. It's just like for some reason, like he thought, oh yeah, that'd be a good idea to visit Astrid in Cardiff, right? So this is luck. Like I don't know why, me and not somebody else. but It just happened to me.
00:46:06
Speaker
ah The fact that ah I am in the kitchen, I am there, is again, luck. So, I'm in Cardiff in the kitchen that used to be, I don't know if you've ever been to Cardiff or if you followed a few years ago, ah the professional bake-off. So, it was Kokori Copartisserie. L'Orignon won the professional bake-off 2019, I want to say, 2020, something like that. it was I think it was before COVID.
00:46:36
Speaker
So he won the professional bake-off. The patisserie was successful before. like He had it for 10 years overall, I think. ah And he got even more successful after he won the bake-off.
00:46:50
Speaker
But as you know from ah you know being on a very high-profile TV show, you get offers. you get you know You get people talking to you. So he got enough that he couldn't say no to. So he stopped. ah So he's got another job now. And he stopped the patisserie. He stopped the the business where he's now. And it's only by pure luck that i was not I was in my kitchen, my home kitchen. I was not looking for premises at all. and It's only about pure luck that we had a customer in common that put us in contact and we started chatting. and He said, look, and I'm not using the kitchen anymore because um I've got a new job. Do you want to try it? It's like, yeah, I'll come and try it.
00:47:34
Speaker
and And that's pure luck. I was not looking for it. I was not looking for premises. And not only it's a kitchen, but it's a kitted kitchen. so that That never happens. It's a kitted kitchen with all the the fridges, the freezers, the sheets, everything. That's insane. That's insane. That never happens. And just suddenly falls on my lap. Do you want to try it? Yes, of course I do.
00:48:00
Speaker
And you know he wanted me to succeed, so he not only helped me, and but also you know gave me an incredible deal on the whole kitted kitchen, ah but also was a bit of a mentor and other things, like you know with the business and all that, because you know you had so much experience.
00:48:19
Speaker
And yeah, that that never happens. So all of this is luck, I think. And it's just, yes, I work hard, but it's just sometimes you meet the right people. And it is just it's what happens, because I know a lot of bakers that are very talented and they might not have met the right people yet, if that makes sense. and And the fact that, you know, the one thing always brings on another, so you say,
00:48:47
Speaker
For example, there was ah a blogger in Cardiff that made a piece about me and that started you know blowing and that meant that I had so many more followers and I had you newspaper but ah newspaper articles and all that. But all this, you know it's like a snowball effect. i Again, I didn't look for that. I didn't ask for that blogger to come and see me. He came to see me. and that's like why me and not somebody else so yeah I think yeah I don't know ah um I'm not being like I'm not done playing how hard I work but I'm just saying that yeah it is what it is
00:49:29
Speaker
The stars aligned a little bit to make it happen. I really do think so. I really do think so. And who knows what the future will be like. But yeah, at the moment I've been yeah incredibly lucky, that's for sure. Are there any real sort of hard points that you remember from starting to now, whether that be like an element that you were really struggling to perfect or or something? So many, so many. It's just like if there's every week there's a failure. every i When I got into pastry making,
00:50:04
Speaker
ah I thought it would be ah a case of having a few batches under my belt and I'd be gone. Not at all. ah And even when I thought I was good at it, there's always always something that throws me. um I'm more consistent with it, but I'm not you know ah immune from having a bat batch of it and then But I think the hardest thing, so it's all obviously the the baking is one thing.
00:50:34
Speaker
so it's hard to uh to do a mille-fait for example it just meant that that's my one of my nettuces as well because it's not just the making of it it's the cutting of it i hate it so i'd rather cut all the puff pastry and then dress every but like every sheet individually rather than doing doing a whole sheet and cutting it i i don't i can't cut it it it's not my yeah macaron one another thing common triive old time it just I can't make them at all. So it's obviously these certain bags that I still I still like a little bit of a mystery to me. and Breads I don't make enough breads like I do you a little bit but not enough for me to be even close to good at them.
00:51:15
Speaker
ah But I think when you have a business, the worst thing is suddenly you have all the caps. And that was that's still, to this day, the biggest thing. like to so To not just be the baker, because that's the easy part, if anything. That's the part you're most passionate about. ah having you know Trying to perfect a bake, even failing at it, it's fine.
00:51:37
Speaker
but your accounts, your the cleaning, the ordering, the the packaging, the the the social media, the the customer services, that all of this is just so time consuming. so that I was not ready for that, I have to say. and It took me a long time to ask for help and when I finally did,
00:52:01
Speaker
So I had, I started having a few girls helping me in the kitchen for the very basic things like, you know, doing the dishes and cleaning the kitchen and stuff. And now I have a couple of girls that actually can bake. And again, that's the next level. It's like, Oh my God, I don't suddenly, I don't have to, it doesn't just have to be me doing things. I can delegate, which is a huge thing. Um, so yeah, I think that, that that's the worst thing about having a business is just trying to manage everything.
00:52:31
Speaker
um it's it's Yeah, it's tiring. As you know, it's very tiring. The baking, I could do it. it is. It is like I get to do these types of things. Like, you know, you ask me asking me to be on the podcast, like, Oh, yeah, cool. That's really exciting. So that's the good side of, you know, you know,
00:52:53
Speaker
being or having a business and everything but yeah it's it's rewarding no it definitely is because ah the truth is I would not go back to an office job ever like I don't want to unless I have ah you know a knife on my throat I well will not go back to an office job ever it's just I love it I love it too much but yeah it's nice that I can delegate now that's for sure I think it would be very hard to go to an office job. I could not picture myself in a job where I could sit down and I imagine you're the same that now you've had this, you know, rush and very tactile experience. The idea of sitting down and sitting at a desk, it must be torturous. I couldn't do it. No. And I come from a project manager job, right? So as a project manager, yes, you manage projects, obviously. So I do still like that aspect of it. So planning things, scheduling and seeing how things fit together to end in a common goal or whatever. But as a project manager, you also do a lot of bookkeeping and spreadsheets and that sort of thing. And I just love it. Now, you make me like sit in front of a spreadsheet to do all my costing. It's just I hate it. Absolutely hate it. I'd rather be, you know, again, baking because but at least you, yeah, you get a bit of a varied pleasures, let's say, but yeah, it's
00:54:15
Speaker
ah Anyway. Why other than, I mean, you know, you mentioned a ah food blogger that came and did a blog about um your patisserie, but other than that, why do you think that you've become so popular in Wales?
00:54:35
Speaker
How can I answer this question without sounding full of myself? You can sample yourself. You're allowed to pick yourself up. I'm likeable. So when I say likeable, I'm not. I just I like talking to people. So and I like being myself and I have an easy personality to get on with, I think. um So, yeah, I'm not I'm not trying to be full of myself, but I think
00:55:06
Speaker
The fact that I like talking to customers individually when they come to pop ups, the fact that I talk about my own life in, ah you know, my kids and all that on my Instagram to see that I'm a real person behind all of this. ah They have the same struggles. You know what I mean? It's just, if you're not you, if you don't show yourself, you know, i always something that I heard very early on when I started baking, it had nothing to do with baking was people adhere to a person, not to a product.
00:55:35
Speaker
So that's what sells a product. It's the person. And not that I tried to do that, but it's just, oh, yeah, that's right. and But I think that's why people connect with the business is because of me. so And that's why my name is um like in in the business name. And I think that's important. And and it's important that I still show my say this face at pop-ups, even if I don't always you know do the pop-ups anymore. like I still show my face.
00:56:02
Speaker
um because yeah it's nowadays it's really important, I think, to connect with people and and not feel like you're shoving products down their throats regardless. Well, it's pastry, so it's always nice, isn't it? It's not. So I want to show it. But what I mean is just like you're not trying to to be all about the product, you're trying to be yourself as well. and But also, so that's that's the that's me as ah as a person. but in terms of if we talk about the product
00:56:36
Speaker
aye take a lot of pride in what I make with the best ingredients possible, the best technique possible, or the best process possible. And I think it just shows. So it doesn't mean that others are not as good. It's just that I highlight it a lot. So I just make sure that people know that what the chocolate they get is the best chocolate, that the but the butter they get is the best butter.
00:57:04
Speaker
um And that all is very French and because that that's what i I do. So I try not to make cookies or brownies and all that because that that's not that's not French. and But yeah, I think people can taste the difference. I mean, oh, that sounds like Sainsbury's tasted the difference. but Not a sponsor of this podcast yet. No, not not at all. But so but yeah, they can they can tell that there's not just craft, but very high quality ingredients in it. And that's what I think people look for these days when they're going to pay quite a bit of money to have the croissant. They want the croissant to be the best. They don't want it to be half there, you know? ah And again, I think it has a lot to do with what you see in Instagram.
00:57:50
Speaker
and I play the game. I don't know how long I play it for because Instagram is really, I'm talking about Instagram because it's my only platform in effect, but it's it's all consuming. But you know people, when they see something in Instagram, they' just there's the fear of missing out. So when I show my ah you know my products, I say, oh yeah, I need to get it this weekend and stuff. But because it's good it's a good product and I try to say it is good. I don't want to shy you away from that. um So yeah, I don't know if that answers your question, but yeah. Absolutely. You talked about using the best products possible and I see on your Instagram that you are a big fan of Valrhona. Is that because you believe it's the best? Because it's French? Because it's got a high profile about it?
00:58:42
Speaker
Honestly, so i've I've gone through several chocolates and Varuna has been the latest. ah like so I've always used Varuna in my panel chocolat, always the sticks, because I think they're just better. I, ah no disrespect to anybody using it, but I do not like caliber at all. I think it's very generic. It's fine, but that's all it is. Fine. ah It's not a level up, you know, from anything else.
00:59:08
Speaker
um then I used for a long time for my Coverture chocolate.
Quality and Innovation in Baking
00:59:14
Speaker
I used Véliche, or Véliche, I don't even know how you say that, Véliche, Véliche, which is nice. It's very nice. I quite like it. And then, ah shortages in the chocolate industry ah means that I had to order Valrhona, not just for my sticks and my cocoa powder, but also for my Coverture chocolate. So for all my ganaches and all that.
00:59:37
Speaker
um So I had to because there were shortages of the other one I was using, which was village. And then it's really nice. It's really good. So I think it's like but once you try, you can't go back once you once you start using it. and So I'm not saying there's no other chocolate. So recently I've had a lady coming from a different chocolate and ah company called Choco.
01:00:02
Speaker
I don't know if you know of them. ah about the example ah So yeah, excellent, excellent chocolate. Funnily enough, the customer ah feedback on certain things I've tried with it is not great. I think people's palette is not ready for very fine chocolate.
01:00:26
Speaker
and I loved it when she sent like all the samples and stuff. I just loved it. ah But yeah, when I tried it with custom, they would just say, I'm not sure about that one. I'm just like, right, okay, it's more expensive than a Rona. People don't like it. So why am I going to buy it? yes Yeah, but it's a very It's a very interesting chocolate. it's um ah for For those people who haven't tried it, it's it's almost like the difference between coffee beans. yeah yeah That's how they explain it as well. it It definitely has its own very unique flavor profile. And I think if you if you just love chocolate in something, maybe you wouldn't appreciate that.
01:01:08
Speaker
No, that's it. And I like my very dark chocolate, right? So I'm ah i'm a very dark ah sort of girl, like in the sense that I have 80, 90% chocolate, no problem. I love the bitterness of it. I don't love my milk chocolate. I hate white chocolate. ah So the fact that all of this is meant that I really love the chocolate and it's, as you said, there's a lot of flavours that come through like cherry and all that. And and I love the the the whole duck right behind it, the principles that stand for because it's much more ethical, ah it's more sustainable and it's all lovely.
01:01:41
Speaker
But at the end of the day, if you're running a business, one, it's more expensive, two, the customers don't like it. Why would you go there? you know and So it's not that they don't like it, it's just that they prefer my other the chocolate, which is well grown out. So, well, I'll give the people what they want. And to be fair about Rona is one of the most expensive one out there anyway, in terms of the other chocolates there is on the market. So, yeah, and it happens to be French. So, mayhow, Coco Rico.
01:02:08
Speaker
It takes all the boxes. It takes all the boxes. But for butter, for example, I ah use different butters depending on what I want to try because I like to be knowledgeable about butts. So I like to be knowledgeable about my craft, okay? And in the world of pastries, depending on the butter you use, you're going to you're going to get a very different pastry. So you have to adapt your recipe, you have to adapt your process to the type of butter you're using.
01:02:40
Speaker
they're not all equal. So ah here when I talk about butter, it's not the butter blocks you put in the dough, it's the sheeted butter that you laminate with. So I'm trying different butters because I want as a professional baker that specializes in pastries to know everything there is to know ah about a how to make the best pastry depending on the the the materials you use. So butter is one of them.
01:03:08
Speaker
So I use fresh butter, which is great, the easy butter. But I also use the Edinburgh Butter Company butter, which is fantastic in taste, harder to work with, ah but fantastic in taste. And I'm trying different butters like this, so I'm not going to name them all, but I try to yeah get get a feel of ah you know how it is to work with this better or that better because eventually I think I'd like to go into consultancy a little bit so not now I'm not ready for that but I don't know where the business goes but if because I've had younger bakers or junior bakers that have been asking
01:03:48
Speaker
um Or could could you could I come and you know shadow you for blah, blah, blah, blah. And ah every time I'm going to say, yes, no problem, come along. But I need to be able to answer all questions. you know If they say, oh, why is that doing this or that? I need to be able to answer. So if I go into consultancy at any point in my career, I need to know all the answers.
01:04:09
Speaker
So yeah, that's good. And it's the same with flour. You have to try different flours because different flours are going to ah he yield different results with pastries, depending on the protein level, blah, blah, blah. I'm not going to bore you with it, but it's very, very nerdy.
01:04:24
Speaker
I love the nerdy stuff, don't worry. Um, I feel like one of the things that a lot of chefs and people in the industry have been talking about sort of probably since COVID I imagine is the price is increasing on our products that we need to buy. But I imagine for you.
01:04:42
Speaker
That's probably hit you even harder because things like butter cream and chocolate, especially Have increased so so much so much been just the last six months How absolutely about that because you can only you can only inflate your prices so much but sorry you price yourself out at the moment, right? I'm very lucky because my overheads because I haven't got a shot because I have very few people working for me and and because of all of this I have very little overheads so I've been absorbing it but I've i've increased my prices but not massively like 5p here 10p there but I'm going to have like as I said to myself like after Christmas I'm going to have to increase my prices and you know to people hopefully it's not much because it's 5 or 10p it's not like I'm doubling the price of a croissant
01:05:33
Speaker
but it's definitely every time I make an order on on you know chocolate on flour has stabilized now but chocolate butter and cream it's just my heart sings it's like ah oh or you know the the email that comes through I think all the chefs have the same mr they price increase oh one day I had three different emails from three three different suppliers of a different price increase one was cream one was butter one was chocolate and I'm just like, oh, here we go. One day, suddenly, you know and so yeah you have no choice, but that's something that, again, I was very shy doing when I first started, and that would be my advice to anybody starting in ah in the business, is to price things accordingly. so I would price my ingredients,
01:06:24
Speaker
i would price I would include my packaging, And then suddenly my time wasn't important. And then my overhead, because I was at home, oh, well, I'm paying the electricity bill anyway. And so it took a while for me to price things well and ah and fairly, I would say. So I try not to be overexpensive because I don't want to seem like a snobbish bakery. I really don't. So I think it's one thing that and
01:06:57
Speaker
Some coffee shops, for example, they they sell they the pound chocolat, whatever, at £4. And I'm just like, oh, on earth, can you get away with it? It's just ridiculous. It's not, you know, I know you have more overheads, but come on.
01:07:12
Speaker
and ah So I try not to be too expensive, but I definitely at the start, I was not aggressive enough with my prices because I did not value my time, for example, or I was trying to make it as cheap as possible for the customer. It's not about making it as cheap as possible for the customer. It's about making it worthwhile for you. and If people buy it, that means it's a good product. If people don't buy it, well, stop making it.
01:07:41
Speaker
Because at the end of the day, you can't compromise on that. It has to be worth your while. And and it took me a long time ah to do this, to actually work out what products I needed to shelf because they were just too costly and people wouldn't pay the money for it. I loved making them and I wanted to make them. It's just like, yeah, but it's it's it's not it's not worth it. It's absolutely not worth it. And you can't just make something cheap for people to buy it. It doesn't work like that.
01:08:08
Speaker
um No, it's it's a very fine balance, I think, and trying to work out sort of what you can do versus what you want to do. It's a little bit of a juggling act to try and find that middle ground.
01:08:22
Speaker
so ah yeah i tried to adapt some of the things I make so that it's got a more of a like for example pistachios right people love pistachios at the moment there's a bit of a craze around pistachios so I started making a pistachio croissant that people are going absolutely crazy for it's not my thing I don't like pistachios that much it's just yes no it's not my thing I'm gonna have to kick you off the podcast I'm so sorry It's like saying you don't like it. I love pistachios. Yes, no, I love them. I'm with i'm with the public on that one. i'm so but I like pistachio as a maybe with something else, but on its own. I don't know. But people go absolutely crazy for it. I like it. It's not that I don't like it, but it's just I'm not going crazy for it. That's that's the difference. isn't So every pop-up now, the
01:09:17
Speaker
the the almond croissant is now trumped by the pistachio croissant because yeah suddenly almond's like ooh boring the pistachio is in the place um yeah i find it funny because yeah it's just pistachio
01:09:33
Speaker
It is one of those things that you have to listen to. Like I yeah um just, for the fun of it, and because I wanted to, I guess, started doing a dessert box once a month yeah through that i do and I deliver them and it's it's a bit of fun. I'm not going to say that it's the most lucrative part of our business, but I really enjoy doing it.
01:09:52
Speaker
And this month um just happened to be the one that people absolutely loved the most. And it was probably the most simple. It was the nuclear with coffee crumpetisier. It was a brown butter financier with a whipped mascarpone on top of it. And it was a classic flan but with some Tonka bean in it. Oh, I love Tonka bean. And people absolutely loved it. Yeah, of course.
01:10:18
Speaker
It's about, but it was probably the one that I put, I don't want to say the less effort into, but it was definitely the less culinary creativity in a box. You know, people absolutely loved it. And I, I have to listen to that as well and say, maybe people don't want these really fancy, no interesting, simple, I want something that's comfortable. But that's why in in a way, that's why I, so when I started.
01:10:44
Speaker
I tried my best because I was really interested in it to make elaborate patisseries, right? So elaborate cakes and entremets and all that. So I was really interested in that and I was making it for the customers. So it would like take me forever as well to make each and every one of them. But I realized that. Well, because you have to put a certain price point on them because you spend so much time making them, it's actually quite scary.
01:11:12
Speaker
to most customers, not not just a price point, but the how fancy they look. and Certainly, I'm the same. so I can deal with no uppercake because it's fairly simple looking. But anything more elaborate you know when you have fancy piping or a dome of this and a glaze of that. I'm just um she like, o i don't ah yeah i I don't think I want it because I don't think I'm worthy of it such you know extravagant things.
01:11:40
Speaker
And so very quickly, I decided not to do too much of like high end patisserie, because I don't think it would sell that well, because you have to price them quite high. um Because yeah, they look too fancy. That's it. You you have to have really the the public for it. They they look lovely in ah in a display. It doesn't mean you're going to sell sell them. And also, they used the when you don't have a shop and you just do pop-ups like me, there's the absolute nightmare of refrigeration. And you have to keep those in you know so at a certain temperature at all times. and And it's just not possible when you do pop-ups. So very quickly, I've just moved away from them. I do a fly and all that, but nothing to elaborate.
01:12:28
Speaker
No, sometimes I think it's like you said, sometimes simpler is better. yeah um yeah it's It's a comfort food, you know, it's it's not a necessity. We don't need pastries, but we definitely, our soul needs them, you know, so we it wants to be something that that we're craving for. But people definitely love nuts and and stuff like that, so that that will never grow old, definitely. No, and I'm sorry for the almond croissant, because I do love an almond croissant. And mine is quite good, I have to say.
01:12:57
Speaker
but have to come and try it yeah um yeah the border yeah I know, but it feels so far away that it's, it's no time at all. And I just realized that now you can actually catch a train from Bristol to Cardiff. I had no idea, but, um, but yeah, it just feels like it's far away. I will have to come though. I do like Cardiff.
01:13:18
Speaker
Save me an almond and a pistachio. I'll bring it to you and I, you know, we can organize something. We should, we should meet up for coffee.
Competition Experience and Reflections
01:13:29
Speaker
You did a croissant competition. Yes, I did. I loved it. Can you tell me about that? It was so good. and Absolutely nerve-wracking and I'm quite a confident person. I did not know I was going to be that nervous, honestly. It's just, but, so I entered it because, yeah, you have to enter yourself. you You basically nominate yourself.
01:13:51
Speaker
that's the first stage and then ah your customers or you know you put the votes on Instagram and then people people vote for you and the most votes got to London. So I was lucky that in my region which was ah what they called the the centre, so included Wales and like the Midlands and all that, there were not that many entrants, right? So very quickly, ah thanks to my followers and everything, I had enough votes to go to the the final in the in London, in the Savoy, you know, not not just any no sort of venues, the Savoy. And I trained really hard for it. like I try to do my absolute best at making the best
01:14:36
Speaker
croissant, because it's not just, obviously there's different, as you know from you know having been in the competition yourself, it's not just taste of it, but it's the look of it and it's the the volume and it's the the inside, the structure, the the texture, that so it's it's all of this. So I think there was and catch see sweet for I still count in French to this day, but there was four criteria and you had an overall ah mark of 80. So it was out of 80. And so there was 20 participants and then we all went to ah to so to London in September to show our croissants. So the hard bet was that you had to bring your croissant from wherever you bake, so me and Cardiff.
01:15:25
Speaker
You had people come from coming from me Scotland. But you also had bakeries in London, so there were like only a few tube stations from there. But I think, all you know, I don't think it mattered, but it's just like logistically, it was more difficult for some contestants than others. Let's put it that way. and i am So I was very lucky that L'Oréan, my friend who had the patisserie Cocorico, offered to drive us. So um went to London to walk up at Stupid O'Clock to bake on my croissant in Cardiff.
01:15:58
Speaker
It was 20 of them, put them in the tray, drove to London, took a long time to cross London, central London in the morning. I did not realise it was that busy. I don't know what I was thinking. It's London, come on. But it took forever. So we arrived at the Savoy and then they gave us a jacket, a chef's jacket that aremade they had made especially for us with ah with our name on it and the the the prize and everything.
01:16:25
Speaker
And it was just very daunting all of a sudden. So I had to find a bit till that point because it was in my kitchen, I was making my croissant and I was fine. The moment I stepped into that room with that chef's jacket on, I was like, fuck, like all eyes on me, not just on me, but anybody at that had that white jacket you knew was a participant. So suddenly you just scanned the room for others. And then I knew a couple of them, but like the vast majority, I didn't know them.
01:16:51
Speaker
ah So yeah, and suddenly you are faced as well with people that are on TV. So yeah one of the judges was Benoit from the the professional bake-off. You had Matt Adlard, I don't know if fear you see who Matt Adlard is, so he's quite big as well. ah You had the head of the jury was my personal hero, Cyril van Destroux, who is a French pastry, head pastry maker.
01:17:17
Speaker
and So yeah, all of a sudden and i was like fuck yeah it's not just other participants, it's all these judges. I really look up to you. Some of them like are my heroes and I'm in the room with them. And you have to keep it together. And i was remember I remember I was trying to take pictures and shaking at the same time from just like, yeah, and generally just nerves.
01:17:41
Speaker
And when i'm nervous i start talking that' that's that's that i just have verbal diarrhea so i just went up to everyone introducing myself and talking and i have the room and stuff so i was absolutely nuts but it was such a good experience such an amazing experience.
01:17:57
Speaker
and At one point, the judges go off to for two hours. It takes forever for them to judge the croissants. But in the meantime, they bring out the other croissants for everybody to taste. So you could taste each other's croissants, which I thought was so scary.
01:18:14
Speaker
So I for a very long time, ah half an hour after they brought all the croissants, I refused to go to the table where everybody's croissant was because I did not want to see other people's croissants. I just because I thought I have such like every night and then it comes back stronger. But at the start, it was very strong. Start of my, yeah my, yeah my short career is imposter syndrome, right?
01:18:35
Speaker
It came back with a vengeance that day. And I thought I had dealt with it. I thought I had to earn my place there. But suddenly, I was like, I'm not worthy. What am I doing there? I can't see other people's croissants. Mine are going to look shite. And it's just all these negative thoughts that came to my head for a good half hour. And I was so scary. And in the end, I was like, OK, come on, Astrid, don't be daft. you know You're 44 years old. Come on.
01:19:00
Speaker
cool So I went over and tried other people's croissants and you know the good thing is just that I thought some tasted amazing, some tasted not as good as mine. I thought it's nothing against them, it's just I thought mine tasted better. So suddenly it's like okay you can relax maybe you're not the absolute worst of that room. Not because other people were worse than me, it's not what I mean, it's just that I I just thought mine just were horrible and they were not horrible. So I just, I had to, to stay away from the whole competition thing for a moment. And then I just got over it and said, okay, that's fine. You have obviously some, some better than others. Mine are all right. I'll be fine. Okay. Um, and then I had a lovely time talking to everyone. So once I got over those nerves, I had a lovely time, but it was really nerve wracking at the start. And then they announced the the winners.
01:19:56
Speaker
very worthy. ah Two of them I had chatted quite a lot too. ah So super happy for them. and then and that's in And then we had to drive back to Wales very quickly because you know it takes a while from London to Wales in peak traffic to drive back. So I did not get much feedback after that ah because we just had to leave.
01:20:18
Speaker
and And the next day I texted, well, I i sent an email to Izini who organized the competitions, like, how did I, how did I do? Like, I have no idea. Like in the, in the 20, how did I rank? And they said, right, it's a little bit of a, anyway, they said, you were not far off the top three.
01:20:38
Speaker
But we don't want to we don't want anyone to know for sure that you don't you you want to participate again next year. So you didn't want to put you off by saying you're number 20, for example. So whether that's true or that false, I don't know. But apparently, I was not far off the top three. But what they did give me is the the overall ranking of all the judges. So you know, the the out of 80,
01:21:03
Speaker
And one of the the bakers there gave me 80, so the top mark, but one of the bakers, one of the judges. And I had fairly good marks in all of the the other judges. So I thought, yeah, I can't have done that bad. So it gave me the boost as well to say, all right, okay.
01:21:21
Speaker
I wasn't placed top three and even if because it's the funny thing I don't know if you had a feeling it's the funny thing but I did I knew I couldn't win like there's no way I could win but yet when they're announced like oh maybe maybe maybe maybe they gotta to say my name but come on of course they didn't but it turns out I don't think I did that bad I think I did quite well And the interesting thing as well is the the difference. And I was talking to Matt Adlard at the end, ah after the the judging was done. And it turns out, I think the Brits and the French, because there was half and half in the judges, so half, there was eight judges, four were French, four were British. In terms of taste, the British seem to be more on the yeasty, salty side. And the French really want the
01:22:12
Speaker
croissant to be quite sweet. And it's the same thing ah with sourdough, for example. So the Brits absolutely love the sourdough. They love that sour taste, that yeasty taste. In France, not really. You don't you don't find those big sourdough loaves in France. They have sourdough starter in their breads, but it's certainly not a taste. like It's not something that's pushed because the French don't like the sourness of it.
01:22:41
Speaker
And so I thought that was quite interesting because like out of the jury, the French rated me quite high because my croissants are quite French, they're quite sweet. But those that won were maybe a bit more yeasted, a bit more savoury, not savoury, but you know, I mean less, a bit more salt, a bit less sugar. I don't know, you know, you see what I mean? So I think it's quite, I thought it was really interesting to see the difference in tastes depending on where you come from. Like, you know,
01:23:09
Speaker
you know You know what you have to do now? What's that? You have to go to France and enter a croissant competition in France and see the see the results and then that can be like your control story. Well, you know I'm not going to be invited to one of those, but in France it's even harder. If anything, it's fairer because in France when you do a croissant competition,
01:23:31
Speaker
everything's done live. So you make your dough, everybody with the same mixer, the same ingredients, you all use the same sheeter, the same oven. So it's a two day competition. That's usually what the Coupe de France, French cup and all that for pastry is. But yeah, imagine that the pressure for two days.
01:23:51
Speaker
No, well, you know half of it anyway, because you've done it quite a bit yourself. But yeah, I don't think i don't think my nerves would cope with that. Like it was bad enough to go to the Savoy for a couple of hours, and run two days somewhere with all the competitors.
01:24:05
Speaker
But yeah, that was really good. I had really good feedback from that. People were absolutely overjoyed. All my followers were overjoyed that I participated. They loved seeing the journey you know because I shared my trip to London and all that. So we saw that was more the point you know is' for people to feel like they're part of it and certainly were. And that's thanks to them that I got there. not not to me because it's their votes that got me to the final all and I had a blast so I loved it so I don't know if I'll do it again next year we'll see but yeah it was really really good. ah You should give yourself a couple of months space from it and I reckon yeah yeah I just yeah it was a really good experience I would but try to ah be less shy not shy but less less nervous next time i I'll try anyway but yeah but what came ah
01:24:54
Speaker
really painfully evident when I was there is the the lack of representation of ah female bakers.
Baking Industry Perspectives
01:25:02
Speaker
It's just there was there was maybe three, four of us out of 20. And I know that I know some fantastic bakers, female bakers, and it's just so sad that it's not sad, but it's just like, why is it that women don't put themselves forward more? Because that's what it comes down to.
01:25:20
Speaker
Because they're there, I know them, but why don't you put yourself forward? But on the other side of it, I don't know if you know, but yesterday they had a best question competition in Scotland. And so it was organized by Edinburgh Butter Company. Again, amazing butter company.
01:25:40
Speaker
ah And it's three female bakers that got the first three spots. So I'm really pleased. Yeah, very good. So, you know, that that gave me hope that, you know, there's something there, you know. That's really exciting. Yeah, that's it.
01:25:59
Speaker
I ask a really horrible question at the end of every, every recording session. um But I'd be really interested to see your input from it. And my question to you is, if you had one thing about industry that you wish more people knew about, what would it be? That you don't need to be yelled at or do 12-hour shifts to be successful and to do well.
01:26:30
Speaker
because yeah, it's just, I think the it it turns a lot of people away. ah or it It scares people away to think that you have to wake up early all the time and you have to work for 12, 14 hours straight. And it's going to be a tough tough environment. and ah Like I have a helper at the moment whose previous workplace, it was bakery, you know, she would pregnant and she would do 12 hour shifts, which is I think not on. Um, and depending on the mood of the, of the order would be yelled at for, you know, missing something or, you know, making a mistake. And I think that would never happen, never happen in an office environment because straight away you would be on disciplinary if you started shouting and, you know,
01:27:25
Speaker
you couldn't do 12 hours shift to start with and you certainly don't have that sort of attitude in enough an office environment. So why on earth would you bring that to the kitchen? So and I think that that basically scares a lot of people, especially the youngsters, because they think it's just a very tiring job, that they're not going to be valued that, you know, I mean, like this, basically, it's just too hard. It doesn't have to be too hard. You can't find an employer that is nice and then you have normal hours and all that. you don't you don't It's not necessary necessarily a terrible job.
01:28:07
Speaker
i don't know I don't know how to put that, but I think it's a myth to think that it's it's just a horrible workplace, because it it really isn't. You have some lovely people. You don't have to to work 12-hour shifts. Yeah, I don't know. Does that make sense?
01:28:25
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. i've I've always wondered why some industries it's very much accepted and almost in ah in a really twisted way celebrated. And then like you said, in some industries, like in some office jobs, you would not get away with that at all. yeah I've always wondered why it's seems to be this whole rockstar mentality in our career in the industry, sorry yeah where it's acceptable and encouraged to be a tough boss. A tough boss, and I don't think that's that's i don't think i think it's changing, and I don't think that's necessarily the case. So don't be scared of getting into it. If you like baking, if you like cooking, don't be put off about what you see on TV or what you think it's like, because
01:29:10
Speaker
it doesn't have to be, you just have to find the right environment and, you know, and basically state your claim from the start and not let yourself be walked over from the start. It's definitely changing. It is changing. I think it's changing. I think it's changing. But like, I'm not one of those bosses, I think I think I'm very nice. like my stuff So if I'm nice, I think there's other people that are nice, you know, I try to be nice anyway, but but yeah,
01:29:38
Speaker
They absolutely are.
Astrid's Online Presence
01:29:40
Speaker
So if everyone who's listening, which I'm sure they are, is dying to try out what you're doing, where can they find you? What are your social media handles? Where do we find you? So it's Astrids Petite Cuisine. I know it's a mouthful, ah but if you type Astrids Petite Cuisine in the Instagram, you can you can find me on Facebook as well, but I'm i'm not very much on Facebook. But I'm in Cardiff. ah As I said, I don't have a shop, so I buy two pop-ups every other week.
01:30:09
Speaker
um So yeah, there's definitely more than one occasions to find me in Cardiff every month. So yeah, I'll be there. Amazing. You'll see me and Vincent there. We're dying for it. Aww, it would be lovely. But yeah, I could drive to uni as well.
01:30:27
Speaker
Home delivery. Yeah. Well, thank you so, so much for coming on. That's been a really, really interesting chat. Oh, thank you so much. So thank you. Oh, thank you. I hope I wasn't too boring. You know, I know you like the drama.
01:30:39
Speaker
and Oh, you're not boring at all. That was perfect.