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11# Tom Shepherd - Is gaining a Michelin star freeing or limiting?
183 Plays3 months ago
On todays episode, we talk to Tom Shepherd about his journey through the industry, to where he is now.
Tom chats about the feeling of opening his restaurant Upstairs, gaining his first star, and being on Great British Menu, all happening in the spam of 18 months.
Tom also talks to us about the time in his life when the industry became overwhelming, how he dealt with that, and what kind of leader he is for his team now.
Please enjoy, Tom Shepherd
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Transcript
Introduction of Tom Shepherd
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome, welcome back to the Check On podcast and on today's check we have a chef who is taking the UK's restaurant industry by storm and you all know who he is. Tom Shepherd, chef and owner of Restaurant Upstairs has been on Great British Menu, hosted a section on MasterChef and earned his first Michelin star within a short few months of opening.
00:00:22
Speaker
Tom talks about the whirlwind of opening his dream restaurant, his experiences with anxiety, and being a supporter of a very special charity. So please enjoy Tom Shepard.
Restaurant Operations and Growth
00:00:45
Speaker
Welcome to the Check On Podcast. Tom, how are you? I'm very well, thank you. Thank you for very having me. That's good. Thank you for coming on. Thank you very much. How are you today? Are you busy in the kitchen or have I snagged your way for an hour and a half? ah To be fair, I'm quite thankful. It's been a busy lunch service, 38 today for lunch. And obviously they're gearing up. There's closing down lunch now actually. It's about half past four and then we'll set back up for tonight and get 39 in tonight. So yeah, busy, busy. How many does the restaurant hold?
00:01:15
Speaker
40 tops. We can we can squeeze 42 if we have like the maximum capacity across each table, but and that happens it probably happens once or twice a month to be fair. it doesn't We don't sell all capacity, but the average number is 38, 39. It's a busy little space then. Yeah, it's great. and We're doing 262, 70 covers a week, which is which is good. over Over seven services as well, so yeah, it's good.
00:01:41
Speaker
That's a beast. Yeah, it's busy. We've got enough stuff to to create a small army, to be fair. So, yeah, we're well covered, that's for sure. And you've been open for three years now, you said? That's correct. Yeah, so it would be three actually on October the 8th, which is, it's crazy. so Customer asked me this today, weirdly enough, that it's the first visit, which we do get a lot of first-time visitors, which is I suppose for a restaurant that's three years old and actually they celebrate the fact they've got in, I think is is testament to how hard it is to get in actually. But they said to us, so how old are you then? They said, I said, I'm actually should be actually three, you know, in two weeks time. And they were like, oh my God, you seem like you've been here for ages. And I get that. so I feel like I've been here for ages, but at the same time, I also feel, which is again, completely, completely sort of counter to what I've said. But I also feel that life is still really new.
00:02:33
Speaker
um And I think because we evolve all the time, we constantly, like I mentioned to you before, you know, we do, we do it we have an extension, two or three extensions added on. We're constantly sort of doing, just just just evolving, and evolving every aspect. And I think this year is the first time we've gone back through the restaurant. So, you know, to redo things that were already existing, instead of adding things on, we know sort of replacing things and evolving those and making them better. And I think it just always feels quite new. we're doing a We've done a lot in a short amount of time, but three years in business is good that's for sure. I'm very happy that we've got here and the business is good and growing which is a real positive. What's it been like from like what are the the changes and the transitions been from day one of opening to where you are now three years later? the I think you've when you you open you you sort of vision change. I think that's the biggest transitional period. I think your all aspects of of your vision is when you you do very much focus on opening the restaurant.
00:03:31
Speaker
my focus was then was genuinely on being brutally honest was trying to be trying to create everything to the best of my ability for the for the less cost so like not spending a lot of money was my priority really so if we could get away with but doing things that was i'd never say we never we never cut any corners but like if there was a cheaper way of doing something but it still aesthetically worked and looked nice and we would do it But I also had that vision. I knew that if the business was was was ah it was a success, I knew that those type of areas and and investments in my business could then happen one day. And I think, obviously, as you know, the kitchen was one of the main ones. I knew that 24 cover restaurant, you know, it got us open and it got us busy, which is great. But then the 40 cover restaurant was always the sort of ambition and the and the desire to do so. And we invested heavily in that. And that's obviously become a reality now, which is amazing. and
00:04:23
Speaker
we still fall, which is great. But I think to answer the question, it said it's that sort of ah mindset from going from just getting open and just doing what we can to then going, OK, we've taken. OK, how can we get that to actually ah where we really want it, where we always want to be in the higher echelons of of that fine dining? And I think that's what it is, mate. And that's what happens with it, really. And I think I think that's we still I'm learning that stage and it to every year it changes.
00:04:50
Speaker
Because we opened in October, those three months up until the new year see twenty two was of a complete blur. I digested and reset over that Christmas period and new year. And then that 2022 was like the start, a proper start then. So like, were going to okay, we've digested the three months. We're good, we know where we are, we know who we are. We've evolved massively in those three months. We've got a product where I'm really happy. Let's evolve this year. And a month after that conversation, we got a start, which was just like, it's just crazy.
00:05:19
Speaker
so Again, it's just it is as the evolution of just just pushing and creating and evolving and and that's what it's about. I imagine it must be difficult.
Balancing Aesthetics and Quality in Food
00:05:28
Speaker
I mean, I've never opened up my own restaurant, but I have obviously dreamed about it and thought about it in my head. And I can imagine sometimes it's hard to, I don't want to call it your ego, but almost pull your ego in to be like, okay, we can't necessarily have all of these flash, super expensive, amazing things right now. absolutely It must be kind of hard to dial that back a little bit and be in your head. Okay. This isn't my dream vision. It's not exactly what I planned it to be, but I know that it will be in the future.
00:05:56
Speaker
Yeah, definitely. You don't know what the future holds. Obviously, you gain hope that obviously we'll materialise into that. I think, to answer your question for me, having my own restaurant was enough. So if that was plastic towels and chairs, and we were cooking on 30-year-old pots and pans, that's fine. I've got my own restaurant, you know what I mean? When you say about your ego, I think it's very true, and I think the ingredients lead to that as well. I've worked in some amazing places that got to a level where it's the most exotic ingredients they're using and I knew that wasn't I knew I knew for a fact that I couldn't do this that here for many reasons affordability being what but also there's there's never been a Michelin star star restaurant in the whole of the county so if we started doing you know smoked here and foie gras and pigeon and you know caviar and truffles people would be a little bit overwhelmed so I think with business I think you really have to sort of actually sort of
00:06:50
Speaker
get to a level where you're comfortable, but also you're making the customer's experience like unchallenging. And then what actually happened, I ripped all that away from me. So all ah all my focus was is creating food that was super tasty, super enjoyable, almost back to your roots, but like you've obviously gone, you know, I went 15 years learning and in some of the most amazing kitchens. So with that quality, then you then put that to practice in a simple format. And you actually, when we're delivering the food, yeah, okay, it was simple, but At the same point, it was super delicious, super effective, and people weren't being challenged by it. They were really happy with what was in front of them. And I think that's the same with every aspect. so As I said, it's part of the build that I was a little bit like, I'd like this, I'd like these windows, I'd like these to do this, I'd like that to do that. But I soon swallowed that because I had my own restaurant. So again, it's and it's it's also it's what I think is really good for businesses is showing growth. So the fact that we started here and we just constantly, you know, each each year we just constantly sort of
00:07:49
Speaker
revolutionizing the business and and and and and the the restaurant. It's showing growth, it's showing the customers that actually when they come back it's different. And that's the same with food, appearance, crockery, cutlery chairs, everything's been replaced and that but that's the building process I think. So if that's sort of where we're at really.
00:08:06
Speaker
It must be a real fun process for you as well. I imagine sort of being able to grow with that, you know, if you came in and started exactly where you wanted to be and you had, you know, 10 million pounds to build whatever you wanted. exactly I imagine it must be hard to kind of step up and grow from there, but starting from where you started, not that by any means there was anything wrong, it was a beautiful, beautiful restaurant, yeah but being able to kind of in your head, almost like rearrange your bedroom and have it fresh again, you know?
00:08:33
Speaker
it's it's it's that and I've got two points of that. One of the main points that really so stuck with me at the very start was one of my best friends, Adam Deck, who's head chef of 52 up in Yorkshire. Amazing. governor I was an apprentice with him when I was at Newhall when I first started. and He just looked around the the restaurant and we were in build process, but we were like we were about two weeks away from finishing. He's looked around, he was shaking his head and i laughing. I was just like, what's up? He was just like,
00:08:59
Speaker
every aspect of this restaurant is you I can see like you've been involved and and and had an opinion on everything I said yeah I suppose you're right I said that when you're involved with it and you get asked by every every corner of the room is asking you how to do this and what to do as a chef you just you expect that when you're delivering it in tables rather going in and cutlery you don't really think about it it wasn't until I stepped around I was like fucking hell yeah I have actually, it's just a complete extension of me. The whole entire business in restaurant is a complete extension of me and my beliefs. And that's what's really, really special. And the other side of it, which again is, this is a real positive if you're in that position, but I recently ate at Scott in Manchester. And I mean, I don't know that, and I mean, Tom is not only a fantastic chef clearly, but he's also a really lovely character and a lovely guy and the whole team looked after us so well. But let's just, I'll put it as this. They they were three months old and I ate there.
00:09:53
Speaker
And it is a stark difference between what we were like at three months. We we were just able, like you said, I don't know. I mean, I'm not saying I have millions of pounds worth of investment, but they had a team they that has already invested in them. And we didn't have that. So they've got some incredibly talented individuals. The whole team is incredibly talented. yeah Some of them have a lot long plume and things like that. It's incredible. Some amazing chefs, amazing front of house from an amazing restaurant background.
00:10:16
Speaker
So their three months is light it's like a walk in the park. It looks like, I'm not saying it is, but it certainly looks like from us. I remember it being so difficult because we were attracting people. We had some millionaires from British Airways that made him redundant and he had a hobby. He loved he loved wine. Do you know what I mean?
00:10:32
Speaker
And we had a friend of house people from like just just just just hotels that had no real desire to be any food destination. So we had to work double hard to try and create that ethos and understanding of people wanting to get on board. And we went through a turbulent time at the start. People just didn't get me and didn't get what we wanted. I came across in the most respectful way. But at the same time, it was difficult to try and engineer people's minds and focus into something they've never really been interested in. But we needed staff to obviously be able to operate.
00:11:02
Speaker
But now, obviously, it's set to three years, we've got to a place where people yeah employees come to upstairs. because they want to grow there themselves. And I think that's really important. They went upstairs on the CV when and we first opened. They had no one who wanted to sit upstairs on the CV. So, but now you look at Scough and it's three three or four months old now and people want to work there because it's Scough and it's crazy. Yeah. No, I think that's crazy how different it was. You mentioned before that you had spent, you know, sort of 15 years building up to this. Where did your, where does your cooking journey start?
00:11:36
Speaker
So it started to to be fair.
Career Progression and Mentorship
00:11:38
Speaker
So I was an apprentice, which I think that's why I'm just an advocate. We've had three apprentices every year, you know, once a year, and I'm a massive advocate for them, because I think it's a well known fact in the industry, you learn, you learn hands on, aren't you? So it's, you know, as much as college is great, which I think it is, at the same point, you know, you're going to really learn probably more and more an intensive background and then platforming it actually in the restaurant. And I saw that firsthand. So I started quite locally. I'm from Sutton Coldfield, which is sort of north Birmingham. So I started there when I was 18, straight from so school and and then obviously into college. And the apprentice was the best thing for me. I loved working. I knew that.
00:12:16
Speaker
I had a mindset of I just wanted to achieve. I just wanted to just, just achieve and just reach. So I wanted a ladder to climb. And I think there's not many industries that's so like visually like a ladder, like, like, like the chef's industry. And I just looked around me and I just always looked at the next person who's ahead of me. So when I was a commie, I looked at the Demi-Shifter party and there was a Demi-Shifter party. I looked the shift of part always had this real eager desire to achieve and and to perform everyone in front of me. and quite relentless really with it, but I just focused. I put everything, i didn't I didn't really worry about my friends going out every night into Birmingham. I just, I was very happy to, and happy and content in putting all my eggs into one basket. And that's what I did. And I spent three years there. I was and i was an apprentice for a year there. And then after the year, I got taken on as a demi. And a year or 14 months later, I promoted a shift to party and as a 20, 21 year old. And then I went into the Michelin star kitchens after that. So I went up to the Lake District,
00:13:11
Speaker
worked with a fabulous chef called Ian Swainton. I think the assembling of our work they didn't they they had a star they lost a star because of owners and then they brought a new team they went for a bit of a turbulent time I think they brought in a team I was part of the team as a junior sue and ah Ian's a fantastic chef and we got a star within within the year which is amazing and it was incredible incredible sort of feeling because our team was so close and tight there's only about eight of us there I think It was so tight and close, and we won it really together as a family. And that's what taught me that sort of ethos, actually, that togetherness. And I remember the general manager was one of my best friends called Alistair, and he said, listen, if you're on the bandwagon, we're all pushing in the same direction, we will achieve something. Can I just remember that? We were only having a drink after service. And he said that to me. He said, I'm trying to create this bandwagon. I want everyone to jump on it. And if they jump on it and we go in the same direction, we will achieve. It's that simple.
00:14:05
Speaker
But if you've got people who are pulling it in different directions, whenever a chief, because people can see it. And I think it's testament to that sort of mindset, really, which taught me. and And that's what we sort of tried to do here, and clearly have done, actually. I did two and a half years there to then work in a two machine style restaurant. So I moved down to Surrey. I worked with Michael Wignall for then again, two years as he sort of went there as a junior Sioux and then moved up to Sioux Chef, which was amazing. but yeah I think I started there as a chef to party, actually. I was a chef to party.
00:14:34
Speaker
So I actually went to Sous Chef when we were in the start of the sampling. I took a couple of position drops to get there. And then I just remember Sat putting something up after two years of being there, I think I was 26. And Sat had put something on Instagram saying they're looking to take a development chef on. And I went there for a trial and just absolutely loved it. And I got the job there, which was incredible. And did a little over a year there, actually. It was more of a finishing school. Sat was as much as I'd loved to have done more.
00:15:01
Speaker
it wasn't really required in the position I was in. If I was like a, like a sous chef or something, I probably would have done more time, but the development role was I'd learned a lot quite quickly. And he sat himself, said, you know, you're probably ready for a head chef's job really. But that time I sort of felt i'd'd I'd come up to sort of 10 years, actually just over 10 years in the industry and I'd sacrificed a lot. And I'd worked a lot of hours. And mentally and physically, I just felt like I was just starting to sort of suffer a little bit actually. And so I took a year out.
00:15:31
Speaker
and became a private chef for a year. It was actually a job that was through one of my best friends again called Kirk Harroff and he basically knew of a job role in London and my partner as well who now wife she needed to move down to London as well for her work. So we just sort of killed two birds with one stone essentially and both moved down there and to be fair the breast did me really well but I just was really eager to take a head chef's job after that. And I moved back to Adams in Birmingham so I moved back to the homeland and took a job at Adams. I was there for nearly three years as head chef. And that was an amazing time really, because it really showed me actually that I was seriously ready and and and have that desire to open my own place. And I thought, well, if I can do it under someone else's name, why can't I do it in my own? That was it. And the next stop was was upstairs. And that was it really. So yeah, really happy sort of, yeah, three one Michelin star restaurants, two stars under my belt. And now I've got my own Michelin star restaurants. so
00:16:28
Speaker
I'm really happy with with me my journey and I think one thing i've I've always focused on is I was very fortunate to work at the restaurants that I wanted to work at. So I applied for a job at, we you know, at the Latimer of Michael Wigner and I applied for a job at assembling and same with Sattbains and I was able to be taken on and and I'm very fortunate to work with the chefs and also in the restaurants that I desire to work in. I think that's a really sort of important point for young chefs coming up because I think a lot of people kind of think they don't have the options and they, you know, they're too scared to go for things. Um, but I think it is so important to, it doesn't mean it has to be a Michelin star. If that's not what you're into, you know, if you want to work at the best Lebanese restaurant, then find the best Lebanese, but do go for what you want it to be, you know, like, like what you did and really, really kind of like hone in and find a direction as to what you want to make it a purposeful decision.
00:17:23
Speaker
I just remember it's it's so true and it doesn't, I mean, now more than ever, it doesn't matter where you work in essence of what it looks like. It needs, it needs to be right for you. It needs to be right for you and have a plan. have ah I had this plan where, again, at my restaurant I wanted a restaurant of my own. I wanted to be a head chef of a one machine star restaurant, but I just knew there was there were certain processes and certain sort of hurdles I had to come up to. And I remember leaving the salmon. It gave me so much confidence winning a star somewhere. I was like, well, don't just set off a wine. Let's go to a two star.
00:17:52
Speaker
and Instagram had just sort of started to really be a bit of a platform where like chef a lot of chefs were sort of really promoting their food. I've been a massive fan of Michael for for years, but more so than none of them him, as a massive fan of his food, I didn't really know him at that time. He's very quiet, he's not like a Sabane, he's almost larger than life character. Michael's really sort of quite content and sort of happy in his own place.
00:18:14
Speaker
I just remember looking on Instagram at his food, and I was like, this guy is using literally the best ingredients that I could ever see on every menu. I was like, I've never even seen some of these ingredients. Literally, I hadn't even worked with smoked teal at that point. And he had a squat pigeons and foie gras and truffles and caviar and just some incredible. And I remember one dish was like this teriyaki smoked teal dish, and he did like a press of veal head.
00:18:43
Speaker
And I was like, veal's head. I was like, what the hell? I mean, I just want to know how to do it. And one of my first jobs was that dish. It was actually because he had veal tongue through it as well. And it was just incredible that I just had this, like, within two weeks, I was like literally brining and then cooking down this veal head to then flake it away and then dicing the tongue through this and having it as a present. It was just one element in like an 80-element dish. It took like three days to do it. It was just a different level.
00:19:11
Speaker
And then then obviously sat at the time, it's got to be such foods actually evolve quite a lot actually since I was there. It was also known as a sort of restaurant that took quite sort of humble ingredients. I think he still does very much so, but he elevates them even more now. But when I was there, we elevated them to an extent where it was just, the taste was just incredible. But he never took, he never put loads of focus in the plate and he just wanted to almost create the most flavor packed food and get it to the customer as quick as he possibly could.
00:19:40
Speaker
I still think he probably does that now, but I think after looking at his food, it just looks even more elaborate now. It looks even more special. But at the time it was almost special, but it was done in a way where we just had to get that food out and he put it in his mouth and it was like an explosion. I think that's the most amazing. And I've learned the most from him from the shortest time to try and really create flavour really. That's what I've learned from him. But I chose those restaurants for those reasons and I'm very thankful that I was able to work in the What, what is the role of a development chef? What was your role with that beans? I worked, it's a really good question. I actually, I actually worked really closely with him and and John. And if I'm being honest, all the ideas were were sort of satin John's really, what were they would do? They had someone in me where they could just blurb out a load of ideas, concepts, whatever, or even evolutions of dishes and just go, Tom, I want, I want this. I want to do it with this. did what you What do you think?
00:20:36
Speaker
And I would then take that as a young, you know, as a young 26, 27 year old, I'll take that and I'll go, well, chef, I think this would work well. This, this, this. He was, he loved the three T's. He always said like taste, temperature and texture. There were the three T's and every dish had to have different tastes, obviously different textures and different temperatures. And it was a really, really clever way of just crossing off the three T's always different. Obviously different textures and different tastes are pretty normal, but different temperatures. Sometimes you don't always think about that. I think it's it's really clever. So with with with his sort of understanding and his sort of, almost his like integrity towards dishes, I then took a took upon that to then create. So it's almost like stepping into his sort of ways really, just in hand and almost like
00:21:20
Speaker
allowing the the sap to take over me and then going okay what what would sap do in this circumstance and that's that was my role and and I just developed sort of helped develop all the dishes really some dishes didn't need developing some dishes were evolutions of former dishes but then other dishes were very much you know sort of creating brand new dishes and it was they're all as special as each other but as a role, it was just, yeah, just sort of allowing Sat to focus on something else, or I could just focus and develop a way and I'd give him dishes and he'd come over and he would taste them and some of shit, and they'd admit it, they'd say, the crap, and start again. And so when I go, we've got something here. And so, hit the note from the get go. And um and within a couple of days, they're on the menu. That's going to be my next question. How long was it? Was it a few days? Was it?
00:22:08
Speaker
Big time. Michael was very, Michael was really confident and he would write a dish down and without even trying he knew it would be spot on. And I think that's different between, because he had, you know, the Latimer with Michael, we had four or five different menus, all different levels. We had like a set lunch to like a, you know, prestige, 12 course tasting menu and everything in between.
00:22:32
Speaker
and he just had so much confidence in his own ability it was just like yeah this would be perfect like let's do this that's it and it would go it'd be incredible it would be the dishes would be incredible sat would be meticulous with it so he wouldn't be like he just wouldn't write something down and go yeah do that and that's it it would be like meticulous and i think just because for any taste it has to hit every single note what sat's talking about so that there were the difference between them but from it from ah From a development perspective, it can be some I remember an apple dish that we spent weeks on. It was actually an interpretation of an apple tart to 10. It's taken an apple tart to 10, but completely taken it apart. So it was like this caramelized almost comfy apple point in and caramel to then go and maybe actually obviously use different apples for that.
00:23:13
Speaker
then caramelized puff pastry where we made our own puff pastry but we did also used some sort of yeah pre-made puff pastry with a real high level to then doing different caramels with different ratios of butter to sugar to salts and then obviously using like different apples in how can we sort of make it fresh with making granitas and Obviously, I think it's the is the bramble Bramble apple. I think is actually from i think it's from Nuttingham. I think the first Bramble apple tree was is actually in Nuttingham. So again, he wanted a nod to that. So it was just like, and then that was the initial concept. So once we got all those factors, then it was bringing those factors together. So like for a week, I was just literally baking apples in different caramels and caramelizing of pastry.
00:23:57
Speaker
And it's like, but it was fun because like seeing that process and then I had to put everything down on the on the computer as well, at every process so we could then revert back and see what it was. It was incredible actually. But at the same time, it was, I also was eager to do my own thing as well. yeah For sure. Was it ever, I mean, maybe this is just me cause I'm impatient, but was it ever frustrating? Like if you spent weeks working on a dish and you kept, so kept presenting it and then, you know, having someone be like, no, this isn't quite right. And then the next time this isn't quite right. Like I imagine it really pushes your sort of creativity and also your skills and your patience. Yeah, big time. It is that because I think Saturday after the sort of six months, I think he'd realized that we'd we'd developed quite a lot of dishes, but only sort of two or three made it on the menu.
00:24:41
Speaker
I think he said, but what he said, you learn more from why things don't work to why things do. So if I was just producing dishes after dishes, and they all went on the menu, then it's not really restaurants at Baines, is it? Do you know what I mean? It's like, they have to literally fall parallel to what he believes in. And I'm not sad. So again, it's like I was almost, he could almost say I was sort of really trying to fight a losing battle with trying to create something for the man that, you know, it isn't me.
00:25:10
Speaker
It wasn't like that. I'd just say it's a fancy question. Absolutely. It was. There was times when also like, it's not just that it's Amanda's Amanda's, you know, that this is a duo and sack could be happy with some dishes, but maybe needed tweaking and Amanda would come over and go, no, it's not right. So you almost like getting to a point where you think, okay, we're nearly there. So then Amanda coming and going, I just don't like it. And it's like, okay, we'll start again. You know what I mean? So it's, but again, it's, it's, it's their restaurant. Do you know what I mean? I always had that in my mind about going, it's fine. It's not personal. It's not restaurant Tom Sheppard. I mean, it's just that. And of course, it's got to be right. And it's just the development. But it was monotonous at times. But it did teach me about at the same time to be meticulous with development. Is that something that you've then taken into your own kitchen, that real kind of trial and error and testing and making sure that it's perfect before it's on the menu?
00:26:02
Speaker
i've taken I've taken bits from both Michael and Sansa. Michael was this guy who had so much confidence in his own ability to just write a dish down and be perfect. I'm not there yet obviously, but I do have a lot of confidence in my palate. So i'm not a what um haven't got the I haven't got the luxury of a development chef who can spend every day just developing dishes.
00:26:23
Speaker
So you need to find that middle ground. So it's a case of actually coming up with a concept, ensuring that we try it and we try to develop it as much as we can. But at the same time, having the confidence to say, actually, this this starting block is bloody good. Let's just do a few small seat tweaks, and I think we're there. That's also part of growth. and We're not there yet to have a development shift. If we were to a level where we could afford that and have that, then we'd put more emphasis emphasis on that to actually ensure that we can go through a military so development process.
00:26:51
Speaker
But it's he fine in that middle ground. I think I do it quite well actually. We do, I'm very confident with with my own ability, and especially creating dishes. And with that we will find try fine and tune them like we did with Sam.
00:27:03
Speaker
I guess that takes me onto my next question because we've gone through a little bit about your your history as to where you've worked and who you've worked with and you know that kind of um level that you've taken with you, I guess, that you you obviously already had, but you've also learned and taken with you, which has brought you to have your own Michelin style. is that like that That must have been crazy in the moment.
Receiving a Michelin Star
00:27:28
Speaker
it was It was the most surreal moment, and I never get bored of telling the story. I never get bored of of speaking about it. I mean, it did there's so much more to it here as well. I'm not saying I'm not taking anything away from anyone else, but like you mentioned earlier about, you know, 10 million pounds into a restaurant, and it's almost set up before it's even started.
00:27:48
Speaker
that wasn't the story here at all, you know, this is a family, family owned business, a family owned property, sorry, with two family businesses on and they're completely separate. I've got mine is a one man band up here, it's just me. And then downstairs is is his dad and and and and a little bit of my nan still, you know, because my granddad always asked for to make sure my nan's looked after him, she's a special lady. um And that's it. But he's dad, focusing on jewelry downstairs and it's Tom focusing on on food upstairs. But Just thinking to be the first ever Michelin star restaurant in the county. And my dad's a jeweller downstairs and his son's up. It's it's just a bit mad. So for that to be a reality was was just so special. But how it came about in that, like I alluded to earlier, when it was just this like relentless, just back against the wall type of scenario every day where it was. And also I was like trying to run the business. I was answering phone calls. I was doing the emails to customers. I was then do it. I was in pastry.
00:28:47
Speaker
And then Mikey was just on sauce doing meat, fish, sauces, and for like ah a nine course tasting menu and Noah was it still here and Noah was doing, you know, all the lada and the bread and it was just carnage. And then to then come back in January of that following year after opening for three months and digesting it, we had a conversation as a very small team and I said, could we put ourselves in that place where we, you know, I said, I'm so happy with how much we've we've evolved from October to December.
00:29:16
Speaker
I said, I've got a product now that I'm so happy with. Could we get the metronome start? And then it was a Sunday lunch. I don't know, four of us in the kitchen, four of us front of house. And that gentleman I alluded to earlier, who was the who is British Airways, he came into the back because my office was the office, the staff room and also the wine room. He was getting a bottle of wine and the phone was going. It left a voice note and the voicemail was basically a late French lady who said,
00:29:44
Speaker
This is a message for tom Chef Tom Shepard. It's the Michelin Red Guide. Could I have a call? could Can you call me back, please? And she splurted out a number and it was obviously a Paris number. And I tried to, I almost listened to this voicemail about 10 times after service. I couldn't get the bloody number. Got to Google area codes. I managed to get the number. Got through to her. And she said, I want to set up a Zoom call with Gwynne Dell. Paulinek, who's the sort of president of Michelin.
00:30:12
Speaker
I was on the phone. I was like, oh, why, why, why would you like to do that? And she says, well, I can't really tell you, but can we set up a zoom course? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We're informed. She was like, Wednesday, if that's okay. Five, five 15. And I said, it's so precise. I was like, yep, no problem. So this was on the Sunday. So I went home on Sunday and obviously I'd known that the Michelin awards were coming out the following week. So in my head, I'm like, there's no way they've told me that I've got a Michelin star, like, you know, two or a week and a half before the actual awards. There's just no way.
00:30:41
Speaker
I'd almost convinced myself by the Wednesday when we were back that we hadn't got a star. And even though Charlotte, my wife was like, you've definitely got a star. Why the hell would they want to do a Zoom call with you? I was like, I don't know, Charlotte, stop. And anyway, I sat down. I'd never set the page section up any quicker. I just i was like, like that I was like it was just hunting the hedgehog that day. I sat down in the office slash staff room slash wine room.
00:31:08
Speaker
And lo and behold, the media guy came on first and got me in position. He was like, can you sort this? Can you do this? Can you do this? And then he said, right, we're going to put Quindell on now. And Quindell came on and every part of me was shaking. My kneecaps were shaking. My hands were shaking. My head was shaking. My back was... Everything was shaking. And he just was very polite and kind. He just said, Tom, he said, you know, you're crazy opening a restaurant. This goes after Covid. And I said,
00:31:37
Speaker
No, I said, I am actually going down. Yes, it was a long life, life dream of opening somewhere. And I get, you know, couldn't get past that really. And he said, well, he said, my, my, my step, my inspectors have really found it difficult to get in. He said, but they've got, it but they have been able to get in. And I said, oh, that's amazing. and He said, and and so much so they've loved every aspect of it. And it gives me great pleasure to, you know, to, to award you one Michelin star. And I was just like, what the fuck? All on the zoom call me and him.
00:32:06
Speaker
so, so special. And I just collapsed to the desk and cried my eyes out. In that one moment, this it was this goosebumps now but this it was an factor of just every sacrifice ever made became validated dead. And it was like, listen, I'm not playing the flute, but like everyone obviously suffers in in their life. and and And mental health is a big a big part of mine. and And I've been through some tough times, you know, me and myself and with other people. And I think that was just this, I knew that i I was so, I was so of siture ah focused and and and and and and just a focused individual and driven individual that I wanted to succeed. But sometimes, you know, mental health and health issues can set in the way and I almost
00:32:56
Speaker
didn't allow them to but listened to my own body as well and to get the Michelin star just validated all my decisions up until that point and then gave me even more confidence to to really project and think well actually if that was one Michelin star then what does the future hold let's just keep pushing and evolving and who knows you know it's I've worked at that level absolutely and I'd love to obviously I'd i'd love to think that we could get to that level
Future Goals and Customer Experience
00:33:18
Speaker
here.
00:33:18
Speaker
It will take time and a lot of ah lot of lot of energy and a lot of drive and passion and everything else, but you know then you've got to have goals. and ive but I've had a goal all my life and I'd love to be able to be sitting here and in a few years' time and have two machine stars. But don't get don't get confused or ah carried away with the fact that I'm so happy with one. I couldn't be happier with one really, but I said I'm a driven individual and I think we've got it in us to take into the next level and I'd love to think that over our evolution we could potentially fall in line with that. but As I said, I'm so happy with one and if you're we won for the rest of my life then I am a very happy person, that's for sure.
00:33:57
Speaker
I think it's one of those things as well, though, is that when you're, especially as a chef and a little bit of a perfectionist, you, you get this like overwhelming sense of joy when you get to where you want to be, which, you know, for you at that point was opening your own restaurant. And then you go through this hard graft and all of the pressure and the highs and lows and kind of get through that point and then you get your Michelin star. And then that's another huge highlight and it's overwhelming. And then you kind of, you move the goalposts a little bit again, don't you? it's It's always that thing where you're always chasing, aren't you?
00:34:26
Speaker
You are. and I think that the pressure, I felt the pressure of the star within, it was incredible. And I was like a pig in shit for a couple of weeks. And then all of a sudden, it was like a reality of like, fuck, actually, like we've we've actually had it quite as ah as hard as it's been. The expectations are just completely like just just on the floor, because people are like people are a bit like, well, you know, is it a matching star? Is it not? Is it when you get a matching star, it's like it's a matching star.
00:34:52
Speaker
So expectations, and the customers changed like that actually. The customers who came up the stairs were very much like, this needs to be good. Almost wanting to put more pressure on us, which people are like, it is what it is. We took it with a pinch of soil and we're like, listen, this is us. like we haven't We haven't awarded our own Michelin star. we've been We've been awarded it. But again, did we did relish in that in that sort of in that pressure and we've just grown since then, which is amazing.
00:35:17
Speaker
I guess that must be a hard thing as well. Um, kind of, I guess the flip side of getting a star, which I imagine it's way more good than bad, but people do have different expectations because even if they ate at your restaurant before you were awarded the star, it's kind of hard to explain to people that you were awarded the star for what you were already doing. So for that, and if you, you know, to still maintain that level still means that you're exactly why the, why the Michelin guide awarded you that star, but people almost almost have in their heads potentially that.
00:35:48
Speaker
It then should become something different. Did you find? that No, i I probably agree. Actually, you I think it was actually a lot of ships are act on really close to back time and And in sat I mean sat was one of the first people to call me a matter by ironically was actually the first chef to call me which is just amazing that's going to star you I'm going to fangirl in a minute. He's one of my idols. He's an incredible person. I mean, we've befriended each other through. I didn't know him really. I knew him as a chef, but I didn't know him as a person before I did the stars. They actually booked the stars for another friend of mine called Neil, who was seeing his suit there.
00:36:25
Speaker
and then in a week and he was one of the nicest guy but he but he kept in touch after asking how I was getting on and just constantly asking how I was getting on if I needed anything and recipes and he was just a he's a class act and to the extent now where we we've got him as a friend and you know he's I'm on the, he's he's now he's now chairman of the national chef of the year, and I'm i on his i'm on his team to judge, which he's mad that that's all through him, because that's that's just the person he is. And he obviously respects my opinion and appreciates and respects my journey, which is, again, just what a person to respect that. He was the first person to phone me. I remember his phone call. He was like, you know, he was like, well done, chefy. I was like, thanks, chef. He was like, is anyone else called? I said, not yet. I said, you're blocking about half my family by phoning me now.
00:37:09
Speaker
And so I won't keep you for long. I just want to let, I just want to know how long did you know? And I said, and they told me last Wednesday and he was like, they're fuckers, aren't they? And I said, no, they are. Yeah. He said, I don't know how you kept it quiet. I said, I'll just, I'll just, I'll just dance, tell anyone. Um, but no, it's.
00:37:24
Speaker
These people are incredible, I think. And and and they were the people who who really said, Satra sent me you know a couple of the sort of miniature Michelin men and a lovely nose that I've still got on my little shelf. I've got a shelf behind that I look at every day because it inspires me. I've got some letters and and things off of people. And they always turned around to me. And it and Matt said, and Akhtar both said, i don't change. Don't change a thing. Just do exactly what you do. And you've got a star from doing what you've been doing. So don't put pressure on yourself.
00:37:53
Speaker
and And to be fair, I really took that. I said to this, I said, listen, we've already evolved. We've evolved massively in the three months. So keep evolving. Keep on the same path. Don't change anything. Just keep doing what we're doing. And I think that's testament to who we are and what we are. we i've just keep We've kept evolving. We've kept the same nucleus and and and sort of personality, I would say, and ethos in our delivery. And we've just evolved that for the better. But it is like you said, it is difficult. And food is very subjective. and I think people customers at the beginning didn't know who we were what who we were and what we were but we were. So we suited to some people. We didn't suit to others. But then the people we suited to shouted about us. So then those people who lied to them came and enjoyed it. And I think we've just continued to grow our grow our custom base far and wide. And they've really enjoyed what we do, which is which is good. And I think it's these lessons, like I mentioned at the very start, we don't create challenging food.
00:38:46
Speaker
As a business we very much cook for our audience and we always will do. We cook for our audience with my experience and my sort of understanding and level of food. But don't get me wrong, I cook the food that I want to cook but I cook it for the customers and I think that's a really important message that is. I think some kitchens and and chefs and restaurants can get a bit carried away and just only cook for themselves which is great but they're not eating in their restaurants every night.
00:39:10
Speaker
I think you've got to listen to your customer's feedback and I think it's important. I think that's what we've done. We do that sort of second nature really. And I actually, I think that's priceless. Listening to customers is priceless. And I very much take a compliment as much as I take a negative comment because I think the negative comment can, we can learn more from it. Yeah, absolutely. I remember, I think I read it on Instagram or something like that and it was saying something along the lines of having cheerleaders is great,
00:39:38
Speaker
but you also need to listen to the critics as well. It might not be nice and you might not enjoy it, but cheerleaders aren't necessarily always going to tell you the truth. did From then on, what you put on your menu or anything like that? Oh no, it's all on the contrary to that really. Um, yeah. and kind and ah I felt a little bit more like a belonging really. Like, as in, as in, okay, we've arrived now. So let's really start to like flex, flex, flex our muscles a little bit. top that That's sort of how I felt. I felt like I mentioned,
00:40:07
Speaker
earlier was when we, when I opened, I wanted to sort of almost like, you know, keep it really streamlined and just focus on the, on the narrative. But actually, getting a mission started gave me the confidence to go, okay, well, I was actually holding the shackles back. Now we can like get the shackles off and like let's start really going. And that was the type of that was the type of mindset. So to be fair, no, I've got, I think because because we because because we got to start with with restraint, no, I felt like I was a little bit sort of it's like said streamline,
00:40:36
Speaker
now we've got to a point where actually it's like we're letting, yeah, like I said, we're just flexing a little bit more and having the confidence to do that. And not not not to say that like sort of adding more and more to plates of food and over elaborate, we don't mean that. I just, with the investment of of of customers believing in what we do and and and also enjoying with what we do, we've now i've been able to sort of put a bit more exotic ingredients on which I think fall in line. I personally, look as a chef, obviously I want the best ingredients in the kitchen. So now we've got the affordability to be doing that. And I think, um, so now you're on the contrary to that. It's actually, if anything, it's, it's, it's promoted, and promoted the feeling greatly. Cause you've got that confidence to think actually, yeah, you know, we are at that level and we really, really want to show everyone that we're at that level. Did you already know that you were at that level though? And getting the star was just kind of like a tick of approval almost. Did you feel like that's where you were? No way. Um, no way. We, we,
00:41:31
Speaker
I've always had a mentality where, because obviously Michelin is a separate business, I would never second guess, I would never say I'm worthy of this or I'm worthy of that. If I was happy with what we did and what we were doing, that was enough. If it so happens that these businesses feel that we fall in line, for instance, with Michelin falling in line with what their interpretation of a Michelin star is, that's incredible, obviously. And that was the dream. But I never once thought that we were at that level and we need this and we need that and we should deserve this and we should deserve that.
00:42:00
Speaker
That isn't me anyway. I'm just not that type of person. i um um I'm very happy and content. if if if If I'm very happy and content with the food, that that's enough for me. I don't need more than that really. So, yeah. Can I ask, would you have been happy if eight years, 10 years down the line, if you didn't have a style, would you still have been happy and content doing the food that you loved and having your own restaurant and, you know? I think ah think it's hard to say because I'm not in that position.
00:42:30
Speaker
But because the goal was the goal was obviously to get a Michelin star, because that's my background. So I thought that the food that I've learned in my whole career, I would like to think that I can reproduce that at that level. But at the same time, like I mentioned in the last question, I didn't put the pressure on myself or anyone else saying we need to get a star. We need to win a star. We are a star. but I didn't say that. So I never once said that. So to be fair, yeah, okay if it was eight, nine, ten years down the line,
00:42:58
Speaker
ah focus and I always will focus as long as there's as long as the customers are coming through the door enjoying their experience with us I really couldn't care less actually with that don't mean it was like that was the focus obviously naturally I would have loved a Michelin star which fortunately we have if we didn't as long as the restaurant was full and then day it's a milestone to get to ten years I would like and then just because I've got a start doesn't mean I'll still get to ten years do you know what I mean so it's The defining moment is the fact that if you can get a full restaurant with with customers who believe in what you do, and there's plenty of restaurants that haven't got a start that are really successful because the customers believe in what they do. I didn't mean that at all in the way of saying that I don't think your food deserves it. I think your food and your creativity is a amazing. they never been is that No, i didn't have I never would have taken it. But no, so it's a good question. I think it's just it's just a case of like, it depends where you focus, I I think our focus,
00:43:52
Speaker
because we needed to, we needed to make the business work at the end of the day. So the focus was always business and and ensuring that customers were coming back and enjoy what they wanted. But you would do have that sort of back end of confidence in your mind to think actually, well, and I've worked at these levels. I would like to think my level is there. So that's the proof's in the pudding. and Unfortunately, we lost that. I've seen a couple of times on your Instagram that you've called out some not so nice guests.
00:44:23
Speaker
Yeah. how I would never, I would never have the confidence to do that, but I love the fact
Handling Criticism and Achievements
00:44:29
Speaker
that you've done it. um What made you decide to do that? Is it sharing your experience to other restaurateurs or is it just? No, it's not actually, it's, it's a personal, I think, listen, some um I'm all for criticism. as Like I mentioned earlier, it's all about criticism. But when you go personal, I think the one review said, don't get me wrong, and the food is excellent.
00:44:51
Speaker
and then went on to go have a personal attack on ah me and the restaurant. And they're all lies because none of it was true as a case of them and just thinking that this restaurant was gifted to me and and and everything inside. It was for my dad. My dad hasn't put a single penny into this business. And he can't afford to. it's It's just that's just the way it is. yeah every Every single penny of what he ever earned in his whole entire life went on to purchasing the jewelers.
00:45:17
Speaker
So I had to help have help with my nan. And you know what I mean? It's like in my granddad's bloody inheritance, et cetera. So it's just it's just not the case. And like I said, we're going to scoff and seeing this incredible platform after three months in comparison to what we were like after three months. It's just it's chalk and cheese. So we just we just people just think they know how how we how we how we are and how it's starting. That just isn't the case. So.
00:45:42
Speaker
it Listen, it is what it is at the end of the day. But if if they if they cross the personal line and get person, I think that's, it's just unnecessary. And and and i've got I've got a zero tolerance in the restaurant. And I say, if anyone, if any customer just comes in and and personally attacks you, then that isn't on. and and And we kindly ask them to leave. And that's just, it's happened twice in the restaurant. And obviously it's happened and a couple of times on social media, because obviously social media people are hiding behind her.
00:46:07
Speaker
behind you know behind a computer screen, and that's sort ah that's okay. But it was the same with the other lady, that the the lady who obviously got really confused with what i but a waiting list is in comparison to an actual booking. And what had actually happened, she put she she thought she'd made a booking, but it actually wasn't a booking, it's always on the waiting list. Then she got annoyed because she couldn't pay a deposit, but we were like, it wasn't a booking, so that's why you couldn't pay a deposit, it was not a booking.
00:46:35
Speaker
then that I think what had happened was she wanted this Wednesday, a Thursday evening, but a Thursday lunch had come available about a week before. So Charlotte had emailed her to say, hi XYZ. We'll just call her Viv. That is actually her name. So so we said she said, good afternoon, Viv. Just to let you know, um Thursday lunch has become available on XY's date.
00:47:05
Speaker
I appreciate you put a request in for dinner but because it was your husband's birthday we just wondered if you could make the lunch just in case the cancellation doesn't come in which then obviously started the process of her going I'm already booked in so he said I'm sorry you're not booked in so then we obviously went through the whole and okay she called she's got a cancellation no you're on the waitlist hence my email and she was like I tried to pay deposit but your stupid booking system didn't allow me so we were like okay we're getting really confused here so you were never booked in We haven't got a stupid booking system. It was a wait list and it actually says, we we actually saw the email that went to her from TARC and it said, you you you have now joined the wait list for this, for this. And you have to pick a particular time. And it said 7.30. Yes, I can sort of see the confusion, but it's eradicated the moment it says, you are on a wait list. That's the first sentence it says. So like, but then all of a sudden it was like, she got really personal. as She called like the business, ah
00:48:01
Speaker
a complete joke, it will never last. Your business is a joke. How can you dangle the character people with the waitlist? And we're like, like dangling your character. We fully walked and we're allowing people, like we've done a cancellation to say, listen, if you put your waitlist down, we never had a complaint ever. It's a great format. And she was just like, I've been in business X, Y, Z. And if I ran this type of thing, then it would never survive. I'd never been to the position I am now. I've never been this angry since my house fell through in 1985.
00:48:30
Speaker
And we were just like, oh, you've got comical. And then we were like, okay, great. I think I responded that because Charlotte was just like, this is so, this is so like attacking. And I responded saying, listen, we've like, we're not getting anywhere with this. We don't want to start, like, start a fight. I'm really sorry that you've become so angry to the extent of how it's falling through, you know, 40 years ago, nearly 40 years ago. And then she said, you know, she came back saying, oh, you're a snowflake. Can't take criticism. You'll never do this. You'll never do that. And it's like, okay.
00:48:58
Speaker
so Yeah, I just got to the point where I just put up one on Instagram saying, guys, this is Viv. And that was it. And it was just like, this is actually a customer who like, and it's like the fault is with her. And it's just the way it is. And the irony is, is that she was on a wait list for this year, the rest of the on and and what andnna this year. So we basically, we wanted to put a newsletter out about the new menu format. And she was on the she was on one of the one of the databases.
00:49:24
Speaker
And she replied to the database. And it said something like, so what, your business is shit. Oh my God. And it's like, oh, Charlotte sent it to me saying, you've got to reply. I said, oh, I'm going to reply. I couldn't care less. Like she's a customer. I don't even want anywhere near upstairs. So I think when I put it on social media, it was just to show that there's, there's, there's some customers out there that just so far of their own art, they don't even, they don't even allow themselves to try and understand other people.
00:49:53
Speaker
And those humans aren't very nice people anyway. Like, you've got to give everyone, you've got to consider everyone and everything, and they just don't. And they're right, and that's the end of it, even though they're morally wrong, like completely wrong. They don't even want to take the time to understand what the situation is, they're just right, and that's the end of it. And I don't like those people. And as I said, the person who then wrote a review saying the food, don't get me wrong, the food is excellent, but let's face it. Yeah, let's face it. Daddy bought you a restaurant and daddy did this and daddy did that. And I was just like, okay, mate, like,
00:50:22
Speaker
Daddy's fuck all actually to be quite honest, this but he's what it is. So Yeah, I was getting frustrated for you. So I think it's just a case of I said I really I was quite meticulous amounts with that because I just think it was massively unfair and I stepped on it we had it incoming Saturday night and I slept Saturday night Sunday night and I just Monday morning i I woke up still angry I was like who gives people right to just to come and put people looking at it and stuff I was like, this is a one-star review because because the food's excellent, but they're jealous. It's like, come on. So That's it. I remember she bought in she tried to bring in her thoughts on your dad's political stance as well. Yeah, Tory, I called him a Tory, which is ironic because we voted Labour. So it's just in it is i it's just yeah, it's just a tour. It's that sort of bigger dinosaur mindset of just labeling people because of their appearance or whatever it might be. I'm not too sure. But it is what it is. I'm not I i don't I don't take any of it personally in essence of like, you know, I don't take it as a personal attack on me because to be honest, I'm
00:51:21
Speaker
I've been called too many things to worry about that. What I dislike is that they think they're okay to do that. That's what I dislike. I would never go on another business and start going into their personal attack. Because like I said to you earlier, this restaurant's an extension of me and my beliefs, do you know what I mean? So when people personally attack it for a restaurant that serves food, so when the food's excellent, does it really need to go any further than that? I don't think so.
00:51:48
Speaker
We don't have to dwell on it. enough I just, um, I just really wanted to bring it up because I thought it was, yeah I thought it was a really good way to deal with it and call people out and give people some accountability. Well, the lad Bible we didn't know that lad Bible did it the next day. So got I got woke up to an email saying, Tom lad Bible, we want to run that viv, viv case. I was like, mate, go for it. Are you sure? Absolutely. So yeah, they did it. I think, I think a newspaper did. I think it was daily mail was not a massive fan of them, but it is what it is. They ran it as well. And.
00:52:14
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's just like i think and I like that because it calls this person out. I don't think, with all due respect, I'm not being disrespectful. I've probably come across, but I think she's of an age where she's never not allowed by a police. So she would never have actually seen it herself. But the irony was, is the people who are more concerned about upstairs and us have seen that, you know, a back to our corner, which is good.
00:52:36
Speaker
I guess my next topic, my next topic, sorry, I've lost my words. um I want to talk about Great British Menu, because I've got no idea how any of that works. I've um i managed to slide into Kirk's DMs and have a bit of a quick chat to him. And he's a seems like a really lovely guy. And you mentioned that you're really good mates with him. Yeah, he's one of my best friends, Kirk. is What was your experience on Great British Menu? The short version is top three best experiences of my whole entire life. Wow. Easy.
00:53:05
Speaker
easy. um it was It was a dream. It was a dream can come true. but It was a dream of me. Obviously my mum and dad split up so I used to live with my mum. It was a dream and me and my mum used to watch it like religiously when I first became a chef and we used to love watching these absolute, like you know, these giants of of chefs of our industry just cooking it, battling it out against each other for these places, the banquet.
00:53:31
Speaker
And now, again, and a friend of mine now, well, he still is an idol, actually, but he was an idol only when I was young. He's Glimpinel who, ah in the third series, got the got his dessert through the egg, egg dessert through to the banquet. And it was at the gherkin. So, Heston Blumenthal, I think, is a celebration of these incredible chefs. I remember him getting the dessert. Steven Terry got the fish course, and then Jason Atherton got both starter and mate.
00:54:00
Speaker
I remember watching that, my mum was like, do you reckon you'll do that one day? And I said, ah ah don I don't know, mum, but I bloody want to. And I said, I'd look at Glenn, you know, Glenn, this young, brummy lad, and had his own interesting star restaurant and and just got his dessert food to the banquet. And I can now, you know, it's a dream. And then in the year of 2022,
00:54:22
Speaker
and Obviously you know in Feb we got the call about Michelin star first in in its county and Glimmer is the first in Birmingham and then sit yeah about three or four months later I got a phone call off Avril from GBM who's the exec producer and she said, Tom, love what you're doing, love what love what you've achieved, do you want to represent Central Region in this year's Great British Menu?
00:54:49
Speaker
and I just said absolutely she went you in yes or no and you're in that's it she goes I'll call you back in a few in a couple of months time and I just was just put the phone down called Charlotte I was like I'm i'm doing GBM this year she's like you're joking about time and all this other thing and then and then yeah a couple of months later they called me up but I didn't actually know I mean my process was different to others I think some people get screen tested and stuff like that but I think with me they're just obviously followed me for a bit and thought we wanted mine and I just needed the right platform. I've since learnt that, I think they've followed me for a few years and then didn't particularly like me at Adams because obviously Adams was the name etc. I think they tried to get Adam on a few years previous but he didn't do it. So then they wanted me in my own place and I did and it just fitted everyone really really well and obviously fitted me amazingly well and that November, the we were the last recorded
00:55:36
Speaker
region. I think we recorded late October and in November and then I won that region which was just incredible and I put so much focus on it. Me and the family were having a desk with Dan Carapais for like three months on the truck and the bananas and all this sort of stuff and then So I was so ready and I embraced every moment of Greenwich Menu. I just was like a pig in shit every day. I loved it. I loved everyone who works there, who works on it from all the camera crew, to the producers, to the sound, to all the chefs behind the scenes. they're all It's an amazing place. It's amazing people. And I got put in a lot and I got out a lot. And I went back for the finals and ended up getting the main course. And I just remember driving home
00:56:18
Speaker
Um, the day after with a bit of a sore head and just to sort of like, you know, with, with, with the g GBM studio in the background, I was like, this year has been mad. Yes. But also it's, this is that dream that I dreamt of as a 17 year old kid watching glimp and I'll get the, get the dessert to the banquet. And now, you know, in series 18 to 15 years later, I, um, I was, I was, I was getting, getting the main course to the banquet and it was just like, and and I had my own star in the same year and it was just,
00:56:48
Speaker
just magic, absolutely magic and the banquet was everything and more and um I've got a great relationship with them, and we've had we've had three or four of the camera crew come to eat, we've had the executive producer come to eat, we've had some of the other guy producers come to eat and we've just, yeah, I had a great rapport with them and and its it's facilitated on both sides which is amazing but in short, yeah, it's just an amazing, amazing production of just, yeah, love it. Love it. Love doing it and love it. Love the show. That's incredible. It's, um, it's kind of a special experience, isn't it? Um, like having this kind of pressure cooker situation where everyone's there to do their thing and everyone's pushing and trying so hard to get the best result, but you kind of just gel with everyone or not everyone, but you know what I mean? It's this bonding experience, isn't it? Yeah, absolutely. It is. And you know, it's,
00:57:41
Speaker
I didn't know anybody obviously in the regionals and in the finals. and like I made a really good friend in Tom Bateman and we were obviously in the final two. and yeah We just we re bonded and got on really well but I just ah don't I think he's a friend, but at the same time, ah and i really I needed to beat him, obviously. and And he was the same in the finals. I knew that my first two courses were the weakest. um I knew my main course and my dessert had a real potential. So it was quite the first couple of days of the finals. It was weird because I knew there were some big hitters in there with with their preferred dishes being started and fish. I knew mine worked. I went home on that on that Tuesday night after the fish and and was I went back to the hotel. I had a bath. I remember lying in the bath going,
00:58:22
Speaker
tomorrow's my day that I need to bring everything. I slept like a baby and I rocked it on the first person's to rock. I've had breakfast and it was just like, I'm going to absolutely smash this. And, um, and yeah, no, it was like, I was, I was in the first round. I think I was third in the first round. So I wasn't like, I had nothing going for him. I weren't like the last or the first, I was like third in the middle, not really, but I just made sure that I've made myself heard and and seeing and that was it and and unfortunately I got a straight 10s for the main course and got to the main course so in amazing. How did you come up with the main course? um So basically you get you get like the they're called regional steers so the producers will send you quite a long list of of basically ah of all connections with the Midlands that you can connect to and
00:59:08
Speaker
I remember going through them and I'd already written a menu with bits and pieces on and Desperate Dam wasn't in it at all because I genuinely thought it was Scottish to be fair and then other dandy and but but I didn't realize that the the Dudley D. W. Watkins I think it is who o Dudley D. Watkins that was it who and produced who created Desperate Dam he went to art school in Nottingham so I saw all this in I just remember my dad collecting them as a kid when I was younger when he had boxes of the dandy and as soon as I saw it I was like and just it it was just synonymous with the with the pie and because he was obviously celebrating illustration animation I was like I want to really illustrate this crazy big cartoon like pie with horns and a tail and I was like that's just me you know but I'll also refine it with a plate of food with a beautiful steak and lovely garnish etc and it was just yeah it was just class it was just absolutely class worthy so
01:00:04
Speaker
yeah it was he was Yeah, I just thought, if I'm going to do it, do it. And I didn't want to do restaurant right now, didn't I? Some chefs go on there and do the restaurant dishes, but that isn't that isn't GBM. GBM is about celebrating the brief. and I just wanted to celebrate the brief so both with the main and the dessert were just celebrations of obviously desperate Dan with the main and then Banana Man with the dessert and it was just it typified those two comics slash productions really. It was a really cool brief. I'm not gonna lie I thought it was a really really cool brief when I saw it. I was really lucky I think with it because I think the Olympics I probably would have struggled because I haven't really got a connection to that but with reading cartoons and illustration animation
01:00:44
Speaker
I'm a big fan. So it was, it was, I found it relatively simple. Well, I think of a chef struggle, but I found it quite simple. I don't know. Again, it'ss that I'm a big believer in things happen for a reason. I felt that that was my time. and It was my time. It was my brief. And I just felt that if I was going to do it, I was probably going to do it then. That's really cool. But what a big, so that must've all happened. Opening your restaurant, um getting your Michelin start and going on GBM. That must've all happened within 18 months.
01:01:12
Speaker
Yeah, it happened. to with what happened again From getting the start to actually recording GBM was 10 months. That's crazy. And then the irony was it then came out in the east of the following year. In the May we won Kraft Guild's best new restaurant of the year. Then obviously you guys came along obviously in this sort of July time to record MasterChef a couple of months later. And then obviously that came out Christmas. Then the following year we won Kraft Guild's best new restaurant.
01:01:38
Speaker
We're in the top 100 restaurants in the UK since we've opened. We're in the top 50 this year. So yeah, it's just it's just been mad. It's been absolutely mad. I've got a three rosette, best Midland restaurant of the year, god I've got the best Midland chef of the year this year. And yeah, it's just the rewards that like you so like you said earlier about being eight to 10 years old, they're rewards that normally take time to get and we've got them within three years of opening less than three years of opening.
01:02:04
Speaker
My GVM ticked off MasterChef obviously with you guys was amazing to have that opportunity was class and I still speak to Emily Henderson now as well and let that obviously the production's moving to Birmingham next year. so it was this This recorded year was the last thing down in London so I'm looking forward to potentially getting some opportunities next year there as well because I'd love to. Yeah it's it's it's amazing but it's also I've never I've never chased any of it. It's all come naturally and organically. And I think that's even more special where we haven't chased it. It's all come to me because they want upstairs and an amazing, which is amazing. It's amazing feeling. With MasterChef coming to Birmingham, are you trying to tell me without telling me that you're going to be one of the new judges on there? No, no, no way. No. it i tell So honestly, m Emily said, I actually messaged her saying I can't believe because I was asked to do the celebrity final this year.
01:02:54
Speaker
and I couldn't do it because I was doing something with Wembley because obviously I'm a resident chef at Wembley so I couldn't do it and I was gutted and I was like in my back of my mind I was like I'll be invited to the chef's table didn't get invited to the chef's table this year so I was like I've upset him so I met Mrs Emily saying listen Emily I couldn't do that celebrity one but listen and I can't believe I've been like you know I've been just the forgotten man after just two years And she was his crying face. She was like, Tom, don't be silly. Like, you know, the production's in Birmingham next year. I'm sure, I'm sure another opportunity will arise. And that's all she said. so
01:03:27
Speaker
there's nothing ah written at the same time. I'd like to think that maybe I might be back on there next year in some capacity, but that is my dream. Marcus's job is definitely my dream job, obviously not in the line, but that job is definitely my dream job. I would love to be on there. i'd love cause Obviously, he still does the skills test, i which I really enjoy. and I love the fact that it's almost like you're creating journeys for chefs and then you follow their journey all the way up. and one of my friends Stuart Dealey had said obviously a few years before but he really felt like he grew into the competition. He almost made friends with Monica and Marcus at the end and same with the finalists and I think that's really special I think as a chef. I think it's really good to actually follow this the next generation of chefs up.
01:04:08
Speaker
Money 36, but at the same time, probably a couple of decades younger than Marcus is, but at the same time, it's nice to be involved with those type of competitions and to see the next generation. It's all right. I don't think Marcus will listen to this so you can say you're after a job. It's all right. Yeah, the man who is, I think Marcus does what Marcus wants, where he doesn't need to be there. So you can sort of tell that. Did you ever consider going on MasterChef or was it sort of GBM the whole way? No, not at all. GBM the whole way, definitely.
01:04:38
Speaker
MasterChef was sort of around the SAT time. Actually, I think SAT sort of mentioned it to us, actually, sort to say, would you do something like that? I think you'd do really well on there. I don't regret not doing it at all, but at the same time, I think I would have liked to. But then, as I said, things happen for a reason. I do think I would never have been in this position, maybe. able if ah If I would have gone far in it, I maybe would have had other opportunities outside of Lichfield, definitely. So again, I think it's just a case of yeah things happen for a reason. and and it's funny to be back. It's a similar scenario with Chef of the Year and I think it'd be 35. I think it was a 35 and for me I was like definitely going to do Roo's Scholar and Chef of the Year. Roo's Scholar I never because of how classical it was I didn't feel the confidence enough to actually do something like that which I think it's changed a little bit anyway since then but Chef of the Year was always one and I was even tempted and when I opened here I was like I'm 32 33 I was like I've still got a couple of years
01:05:33
Speaker
And they get the phone call last year to judge it. And I was like, Oh, okay. Well, I'll just judge it instead. So he's quite strange.
Participating in MasterChef
01:05:39
Speaker
He was saying with MasterChef, I was like, I've never been heavily involved with it at all. And then they called me and was just like, we'd like to get you to the chef's table. And I was like, Oh, I'll do this then. Do you know what I mean? So I've always got like a free pass to both of those straight to the, straight to the final.
01:05:53
Speaker
got the fun part exactly without doing without doing without doing the hard parts, actually. Yeah, I'm properly
Mental Health and Work Environment
01:05:59
Speaker
you. um You mentioned before that after working for set, you took a year off um yeah to go work in London to do some private shopping. Yeah. Why did you decide to do that? um Well, as I said, I was ah suffering quite mentally. So I was just physically mentally exhausted, actually. And I had a couple of episodes of like sort of anxiety sort of anxiety episodes where just panic attacks and anxiety attacks, et cetera. And I judge just, I knew that it was that it was, to be fair, it was the doctors and and and i may add the ambulance called a couple of times, which, and the paramedics saying, Tom, we just got to hit the stop button basically. And, uh, which I did. And I don't know, I don't think I ever really told sat about that really, but, um, it was the straw that broke the camel's back. That was, that was his year. I suffered quite a bit of Latimer as well. And then just, cause they're like, you know, long, long hours and,
01:06:49
Speaker
I put a lot of pressure on myself as well and I didn't know, I didn't have the tools at that at that time to deal with it and to manage it as best as I possibly could. And such was the same. I'm not putting any blame on myself at all, but at the same time, I probably could have helped myself a bit better than what I did of diet.
01:07:05
Speaker
drink and and equally more so with with with obviously with getting some outside sort of help really even if it was just cognitive health therapy it would have been good but I didn't but I thought I needed to stop so I pressed the stop button and the private work was was great they were just sort of straight out of shifts and I worked for a very high profile family and in in the central of London and I enjoyed spending time in London as well with with obviously Charlotte and and that was it but they re-energised me and actually gave me more desire to actually get back into a restaurant and but when I did I was that real mindset of actually looking after myself and the first year at Adams was hard because again I reverted back to putting too much pressure but then the latter two years I did I focused on myself and in this in the third year I did obviously we had ah had my daughter
01:07:50
Speaker
and that put a lot of different prospects and purpose in life and that was because because the grace became my focus really ah for the for the good the good and then obviously opening upstairs again was the same id as much as I put a lot of workings upstairs I never had those those horrible moments where I had funny turns etc actually was able to sort of be myself out of the business and focus on me and my family which I've always been able to do and I do try and put I do put that back into the staff I don't want any of my staff members ever getting themselves into the situation I was so doing the four-day week and breaking it for six weeks a year and having the mental and physical health cover that we do I think they're good things I never had and and I think that
01:08:32
Speaker
hopefully shows them that there's that time to recover and focus on yourself really. Yeah, I think that's um i think that's a really important thing is that when you know you had this very set path that you wanted to be on for working for these amazing restaurants and learning all of these amazing things, but with that obviously you know comes a certain amount of pressure from from the people you're working with, but also from yourself because you strike me as the kind of person who who wants to do everything at its best.
01:08:59
Speaker
you know Yeah, it it is like that. And I want to do everything because well, and every opportunity, you only get one, yeah you only get one, one life. And I mean, it's a bit cliche, but I'm a massive again, I do really allow that to sort of rule a little bit. i So if an opportunity comes up, and if nothing else mattered, you would say yes, well, this and make them to say yes, and and make everything else sort of work around it. So the opportunities that haveve come away have been amazing. and I'm so thankful I've said yes to them. But at the same time, it's like you you have you still have to be You can say yes, but you can still manage it and I think that that's the lesson that I've learned. So the last year was was hard off the back of Microsoft, off the back of Mitchell Earth, the Great British Menu and Master Show because yeah everyone wanted a piece.
01:09:41
Speaker
But it was good to sort of manage that. But then this year I've been a lot more clinical with what I've said yes to, to benefit me and the business more so than benefiting them really. But you've got to go through those journeys to see what fits you. You know what I mean? And that's what it's about really. Absolutely. Sorry, I'm losing my voice. I know you're involved in the Kids Village charity, but I don't know a lot about it. Can you tell me about it?
Involvement with Kids Village
01:10:08
Speaker
Yeah, so Kids Village started off, Kids Village started off it actually as as a family sort of charity where there was a young lady called Samantha, ah Sam, and she basically had a very raw raw ah rare form of cancer when she was when she was young, seven, eight, nine. And it was sort of ah of a glander thing in the left or right hand side of her face that sort of, yeah, it was obviously a cancer. kanas ah And her family tried everything to try and cure it really. And one of, but but equally to try and put some positivity in quiet quite a negative sort of, you know, depressing sort of environment and time of her life. And we'd obviously go into the hospital, et cetera. But there is this there was this sort of village basically in Florida, in America, where
01:10:50
Speaker
It was for terminally ill children and basically it was ah it was a complete like different, every obviously every child had had had had some form of of sort of illness in there but she felt equal in there so no one looked at her funny like she felt like she was just a kid, she felt like nine years of age. There was like rooms in there, there was like an ice cream parlor apparently with every flavor that she could just go in there and have ice cream every day and there was presents outside of her front door There wasn't stairs, there was slides, so like if she wanted to get to the next floor. And it just sounded magical. And so her and um her dad and her family took her over there, and she had the best time of her life. But unfortunately, it was in America, and not many children get that opportunity. So she's just, as as she's become a woman, and she's in her 30s now. She's just had this relentless dream of creating that basically in England. I think there's not even one in Europe.
01:11:44
Speaker
So when she actually she actually came completely organically to the opening night of upstairs, because she's a big foodie, her and her husband Jamie are big foodies, and she came, didn't know her from Adam obviously, didn't have a clue who she was, and then she came a couple of weeks later, it just has done ah on ah on a Wednesday when we were closed, oh sorry, when we were prepping and just basically sat me down, she came up the stairs with this lion, which is their logo, like a lion cuddly toy and a couple of lollipops.
01:12:10
Speaker
And she said, Tom, can I borrow you for a couple of minutes? I was like, in this shit. Like I said, I was answering phone calls now. I said, yeah, yeah, of course. She came to you opening night. So so she she gave herself a couple of minutes saying that. So I sat down with her and she started talking and telling me about herself. now just Because obviously our Grace was like probably two, three at the time. My daughter, I said, Sam, stop. I said, whatever you need. I'd i'd love to i'd love to be a part of it. So she gave Grace that could leave Lion and a couple of the lollipops and stuff, which is magic.
01:12:38
Speaker
and then and then she sort of said listen i' just love I just want to help raise awareness, I want to help raise every aspect of kids village basically and we did a couple of like sort of simmer balls where like people would essentially you know put charitable donations for me cooking in people's homes etc and we raised like I think I raised eight thousand pounds each time to cooking people's houses which was a amazing.
01:13:04
Speaker
And then it was the back end of last year where it got big so that they actually coincided with the McDonald's charity, which is huge in Birmingham. It was built in Birmingham Children's Hospital, sort of nationwide renowned. And the person who owns the local McDonald's franchise is a gentleman called Doug.
01:13:23
Speaker
And they basically got him on board, basically. And now it's just gone big. So I think all that all the planning has been agreed. they've got like I think they've loaned like the area and and everything. They've got the area, the spades are are about to go into the ground. And they're just trying to get basically as much funding and and and and so of charitable donations as they possibly can. And basically ambition, which it will happen because that's Sam is just this person. He's relentless with getting it. I think that's what I warned her, actually. She's like a dog with a bone.
01:13:53
Speaker
and they basically want 10 cabins, which she experienced obviously in Florida, where they basically are the walls, the decorations, the bedding, every ah every aspect of it is interchangeable towards the child, and they design it. So it's like they design every aspect of it. There's obviously a slide for stairs there, and there's a big it's called the Beehive, and it's like the big hive where like they can just go and there'll be ice cream parlors, there'll be games, there'll be this, there'll be this, there'll be this, there'll be everything basically.
01:14:19
Speaker
And there's just this incredible, essentially like like like a village of just for for for these incredible, incredible children that are incredibly unlucky as well. And they just get that respite with the families to enjoy life and just enjoy life to the absolute maximum. And that's what she wants to create. And again, I said, two minutes into the conversation, I was like, I'd love to be. So yes, now I'm a trustee of it. And we're just trying. I'm not as heavily involved as as other trustees because people have been brought on full time. but for me, I just want to help them merit where and where when I can. And with that, um they called upon my requirement as and when really, and that's it. So, but I'd just like to be recognized as part of them. That's such a beautiful thing to be a part of. I know it's very sort of, um I don't want to say left field, but it's not necessarily like it's good. You're absolutely right. And we, and and their customers are upstairs. It's very personal, their mum and dad have been, and some of the other charitable guys have been. but
01:15:16
Speaker
And listen, there's some charities out there that are amazing. I've got an email off Acorn today, and Acorn are an incredible charity. But at the same time, they're huge. And, you know, that they're well known. And I want Kids Village to be that big, you know. So for me, it'd be a complete conflict of interest if I start working with some of these big names, who have already got like a big,
01:15:36
Speaker
you know, sort of collection of of people who want to be involved. So for me, it's like my focus is Kids Village. I like working with with with with Children's Hospital of of Birmingham as well because, um you know, obviously Grace was born in the women's hospital as well. So for me, it's that that's a bit of a bit of a personal thing. So but if I can do stuff for them, I can, but I prioritise Kids Village. So as much as I might say no to some charities, it's not out of of not wanting to or whatever it's just my focus is with Kids to Village really and making sure that we promote that as much as we possibly can. I think that's incredible to be a part of it from the ground up you know from when it was just at the very start what a cool thing to be able to sort of be a part of. Well I remember that she invited like I think eight trustees and that was all it was at the time.
01:16:20
Speaker
And I bought my dad and I bought Grace as well. I think I picked her up from nursery and took her. And we just had a look at this huge field where it will be. And she was like, I was just like this massive field. Like her bloody, you look like just a car boot field. You know what I mean? I was just like, it's going to be here. And she's like, yeah, this is going to happen here. This is here. And she just knew it was going to happen. And I think this year going into next, I said the forks will be in the ground and it will be a quick turnaround. With the people who have got involved, it will be a quick turnaround for sure. What an incredible woman.
01:16:48
Speaker
I would love to meet her.
TwoFold: A Personal Project
01:16:52
Speaker
She's beautiful inside now and she's just got this amazing sort of, she's just got an amazing focus but she's got such a lovely mannerisms with her as well, like her personality is just, she's got a real soft personality, very encouraging, very likeable, yeah just a beautiful personality but also she's she's driven so she won't stop until it happens and you can just you just know you just know it will never it will never not be done it will just have to be done she'll never accept it she'll be she'll do it herself if she needs to do you know what i mean it's a little 30 year old lady will do it herself feels like a bit of a weird transition but i wanted to talk about your spirit company
01:17:29
Speaker
yeah who fold yeah no it was that's a mad transition which like we're keeping it local so yeah this has been probably 20 months in the making so it's for you guys you're just seeing it sort of start to start to come out and to be teasing it out a little bit but in reality it's been sort of 20 months in the making really and Yeah, we can't really talk too much about what's what's going to be obviously produced because we all find that in the next couple of weeks, actually. But yeah, we yeah our episode won't be out for a probably two months. so But you don't have to talk about it. It's all right. Well, yeah, we we all see it anyway. But we um
01:18:04
Speaker
Yeah, we mean Charlotte's background is drinks. She's she's obviously, she's a customer relations manager upstairs now and she's been over a year with us and she's incredible. But her Anne Byrne ambition is drinks because she's she's worked for some really top, top, top people. but from Even from tiny companies like Fever Tree and Brit Vic have headhunted her with leading their London essence brands, et cetera. And she's worked with Loja Jean and vodka and every company can imagine with that. And that that's her that's her that's her niche.
01:18:31
Speaker
So twofold's name comes from basically two two people coming in from different sort of angles and creating products. So we've got two spirits. um I can tell you, so there it's a gin and a rum that obviously, if this is coming out, you'll obviously see it. They're they're obviously not your standard gin. It's not your standard rum. It's in partnership with me and and and what we believe in upstairs as well. So it's all things of the same him sheet. And we're gonna really sort of, yeah, really throw everything at that really. It's something that me and, it's a very personal project for me and Sharla.
01:19:01
Speaker
And we just did Charlotte's product. in I'd love her to be to have that as her own one day. um and like Like she wished for me to have my own restaurant. I think it's nice to repay that. And and she supported me massively.
01:19:13
Speaker
as has Grace and we hope it just comes from that sort of that that field of of me being able to support Charlotte back and and hopefully really get that off the ground and with my help and then hopefully one day it will become hers and she she absolutely flies with it but yeah it's just ah it's just an amazing organic sort of partnership between me and me and Charlotte and it's a brand that we always wanted to and it fits into that package really really well. I feel like everything you do has a bit of a story behind it It has to, I won't do anything unless it has a story. it just doesn't It will never get the best out of me and I'll never get the best out of it and the customer deserves deserves the best. So if it doesn't fit, we won't do it. It's as simple as that. So it has it has to have that personal approach because i they have to taste it, see it, feel it and it has to scream Tom Shephard. If it doesn't scream Tom Shephard then it's absolutely pointless. I'll never sell my name to something that I don't believe in and
01:20:07
Speaker
Um, yeah, it's, it's not, it's not happening. So this is really personal. Yeah. That's beautiful. What's it, have you worked with your partner before with your wife? No, no, I haven't, which again was a re we, we were very, we're very similar in many ways, but this one, we were super similar. We were like, we'll never work together because of support because of, um, she was really ambitious and wanting to focus on her career. I was also a ambition went to focus on mine, but also knowing that if it didn't quite work out for either of us, both of us could support each other.
01:20:38
Speaker
But it's sort of our hands got sort of turned because Grace started school and Britt Vixey was working with at the time of London Essence. They needed her full-time, they needed a full-time member of staff and we couldn't support that. We could support it on the odd days like Monday and Tuesday you when I'm obviously off, but we couldn't support it. So I just had a chat with with my accounting team and I just said, is there a possibility of being in Charlotte into the business?
01:21:03
Speaker
And I came up with the concept of a customer relations manager who basically we never had someone who would sort of create that connection from customers to the restaurant. And we missed it. We definitely missed it. ah we weren't moving me and me and Me and the restaurant manager were never were were never able to spend that time, that required time with customers. It was very sort of slap dash quick answers. And he said talk talk of the evolution. This is a part of the evolution where we create that we create that customer relation.
01:21:31
Speaker
And we spoke about it. Charlotte loved the idea. She's always been customer facing on the phone and also in person. And she's just been absolutely incredible at it. And we actually had a table or two last night who said, can you just, it didn't even look at Charlotte's surname and put the two and two together. She just said, can you just thank Charlotte? Her customer service is literally top, top drawer. And that came from a couple of the actual husbands in the industry.
01:21:58
Speaker
And she was like, she's incredible, she's informative, she's structured, but she's so nice as well. And I said, that's my wife and I'll tell her tonight. and i did then Yeah, she's um an amazing person, an amazing character, she's she's but she's also very proud of what what I've achieved for me. But also she's also very protective as well, which is good because she protects the business and protects me. And she knows what like what what I can can and can't do. and and and And she knows what my beliefs are, obviously, because we share them. and Yeah, it's an amazing, it's an amazing partnership and we've never once had a crossword because we don't, we don't, we don't, we purposefully leave each other. You know what I mean? it's like She, but also she's not, she's not too proud that she won't ask me for advice and I'm the same with her. and But she's amazing. Yeah. I think it takes a really special partnership to be able to work together. Not a lot of people can do it.
01:22:48
Speaker
We're friends as well. which is i think that that we don't look We're not competitive with each other, we're friends and we we we admire each other, we respect each other and that comes first actually. um So from a business we can really take off that business hat and become you know husband and wife and and mum and dad.
01:23:05
Speaker
but then in certain environments we can just switch that cap straight back on and be professional and and I think that's important. we don't We don't cross them over which I think is is very vital. We don't talk about business when we're on our days off unless it's needed basically and and even if it's needed it's it's very light-hearted. That's a good way to do it. and Me and Vincent we struggle with that sometimes but we're going to learn to take the hats off when we need to. No definitely and in it's one of the things that me and Charlotte always says Can it wait? And if the answer is yes, just put it on the shelf. And also, if it's a bit of friction between you, will it matter in three or four days' time? And if it's no, there's fucking been it. Just been it. And it's hard, but we just go, I disagree with it. Fuck it. You know what? Fuck it. Who fucking cares? Do you know what I mean? And that's what we do. And we do that really well. I've always had the, I can leave work out the door. And that's happened my whole career. The moment I walk out the front door, I've left it.
01:24:02
Speaker
I very rarely take it into the car and I'm not at home. And if I do, it's probably something personal. So if someone, say, handed a notice that I adore, I would then take it personally, which means it will go home with me. But even then, it's two days time I've forgotten about it. It's like, it's listen, it's everyone everyone has their own life, everyone has their own decisions, and that's the end of it. so But many times between me and Charlotte, if it doesn't matter, we don't allow it to matter. We just fucking leave it alone because our life and our relationship are worth more than that.
01:24:29
Speaker
I like that. I like that. If there's one thing I take away from this podcast, it's going to be that. Good. It might do it because it'll be the better. And you're getting to that, you're getting to that habit. You're getting to the habit and it'll be the best habit you'll get into. We have a finishing tradition.
Customer Appreciation and Effort
01:24:43
Speaker
um It's a question that everybody hates, but I love it. So we're going to keep doing it. If there was one thing that you wish the general public knew about our industry, what would it be? That is a fantastic question.
01:24:57
Speaker
That is a really good question. I like it. So I'm going to break the bone and say, actually, I'm happy to answer that. I think because some customers do, but I would like them. I would like customers. It's an easy one for me because I call people out, obviously. But I'd like people just to spend a day in our shoes and actually understand and see it's not just the job in this industry. It's a passion. It's a desire. It's a lifestyle because you have to want it.
01:25:25
Speaker
I think customer i would love I'd love every customer towards that door to actually appreciate and understand that and appreciate it because we we're here for them. We are here for them. Everything we do is for the customer and I'd love them just to take the time to consider that because I'm saying customers do. Unfortunately, there's a large proportion of customers who don't. I'll give you a quick example. We came back last Wednesday after our two and a half week break And before that, we were knackered. We were mentally and physically knackered. We had a really busy time. And it's the longest period between Easter and summer. And we were tired. We were also really buzzing to come back. So we were back at an amazing briefing. We'd had a few bits and pieces done. So we had new bathrooms done. So we were all tiled. Looks stunning. New vanity units. But we also had the stairs redone. So the stairs have now been paneling all at the sides. And they look stunning. New chrome handlebar, et cetera, et cetera.
01:26:22
Speaker
And the doorbell rang about 15 minutes before, about five minutes, sorry, before we opened the door. It was a quarter past six, rang about 10 past six, and we'd done the briefing. And Es went downstairs and was going to politely say, you know, we don't open until half six, but please come in. We opened the door and it was a lady, probably in her seventies, and she looked at the stairs and she tutted and said,
01:26:48
Speaker
ah why is that Why is that handrail on the right hand side? It should be on the left. i need you I order you to tell management right away. That was our first guest from us coming back off our two and a half week back, off an amazing briefing, and she alone just set the tone for the rest of that service. The irony was is the door opens to the right, and what it actually says, if the door opens to the right, the bar should be right there because you would essentially push the door open to then grab the handle.
01:27:17
Speaker
So I really push the door out and then try and, it doesn't make sense. So the fact of the matter, we'd put that money in here across just 3,000 pounds here, all the paneling done, and the bathrooms tiled, and obviously these things. We'd invest that money to showcase to our customers, not do it for ourselves, we do it for, because we want the customers to enjoy every aspect of the restaurant. Our first customer said that, and I was just like, I turned to Mikey, obviously you know Mikey, I was a sous chef, I turned out and said,
01:27:43
Speaker
If she knew that like I'd come on my days off on my holiday to to sort of do that and to ensure it was this and that, I said, fucking hell man, give us a break. yeah I'm be doing it for you. Do you know what I mean? It's like, what you've said is wrong in it anyway. And it was just that. So I think, you know, I've just had a dream. I'd love every customer just to know what we do and what we do it for. We don't do it for ourselves. Every one of us would love to be in it upstairs every night, but we can't. We can't. We do it for you. So that would be my answer.
01:28:11
Speaker
That's a really good answer. I really like that and I'm sorry that you've given me the most answer out of everybody. Everybody kind of shudders away from it, but I think it's a good i think and it's good to answer because I think it's important that as that we call that out because again, we we have great customers. We do have some that let let everyone else down and that was one of them.
01:28:34
Speaker
Well, I can personally say that I had one of the best experiences of my career just coming and spending two days with you guys. It was so fun. And your team is amazing. Everybody loves Mikey, as they should. he's ah He's a really cool guy. But um yeah no, we we had a great time. I'm so glad that out of everything we got to do on MasterChef that we got to have that experience. So thank you for opening your doors to it and inviting your family in to come and eat our shaky food with shaky hands.
01:29:01
Speaker
Definitely way that was there about and that yeah, yeah i loved I loved it. I love the opportunity I loved meeting you guys and I still keep in touch with you and Tommy and James to be fair we'll message every now and again, but yeah you and Tommy I probably speak to you more, but no, thank you. Thank you very much for but coming and it was an absolute pleasure having you in upstairs. Thank you very much. Well, thank you for coming on the podcast. This is going to be a really cool episode. So I really enjoyed that.
01:29:26
Speaker
big time it was class absolutely classy as well thank you for uh for inviting me on as well it's been it's been awesome thank you well i'll let you get back to service um but have a good service and we'll catch up soon absolutely cheers cheers ma by