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#3 Dan Lee - When street food takes the MasterChef trophy
81 Plays5 months ago
Dan Lee is a very skilled and flavour driven chef. Based in Birmingham, Dan shares with us his love and connection to Asian cooking, and how he represents it in the UK. We dive into the ups and downs of the restaurant industry in England, why he chose to serve chicken feet to multiple Michelin star chefs at the Chefs Table section on MasterChef, and what the future hold for the champion.
Please enjoy, Dan Lee.
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Transcript
Introduction to Dan Lee and His Journeys
00:00:00
Speaker
We are back in your ears for the next hour and a half for the Check On podcast. And on today's check, we have someone whose brains I've wanted to pick for a long time now. Dan Lee, the MasterChef Professionals Champion, who now has his own street food business and does pop up events. Dan shares his passion for Asian cuisine, his love for street food and his type of MasterChef. So please enjoy Dan Lee.
00:00:35
Speaker
Hello, how are you going? Hey, hey, hey. Yeah, I'm good. Thank you. How are you? Yeah, I'm good. I'm good. Running around like a headless chicken, but good. like sounds Sounds about right. Thanks for having me on. No, thank you for coming. It's kind of nice to be able to see you and talk to you, not in person, but through a screen. It's ah close enough right now. asa nowadays isn't Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Are you in, are you in Birmingham right now? Yeah, I'm in Birmingham at the moment. Is it shitty weather there like it is here? It is. It's raining, but you know, it's been a good start to the morning. I've done some yoga.
00:01:07
Speaker
Yeah, just mad min work, all the fun stuff. Do you normally do yoga? I try to. That's like my ah morning stretches, but yeah, I try to when I can. Very nice morning routine. Had a coffee and everything ready to go. Don't normally drink coffee. Really? I can have like one a day. And that's about it. People are very surprised that I don't drink coffee. I like maybe one a day, but it has to be before 12 o'clock this morning. I've just been on water. Really? Oh my God. I think I'm white really heavily reliant on caffeine.
00:01:36
Speaker
I could probably cut it out, but I just enjoy it too much. I'm from Melbourne, so you know, we are massive coffee snobs and it's just how it goes. Yeah, I get that. i go they just now It sets me off. I can't sleep if I have coffee after 12 or too much coffee. yeah really when So my partner's French and when we go to France, his family will give us an espresso at like 11 o'clock at night after dinner kind of thing. Yeah, that stresses me out. My mum does that. My mum has coffee before she goes to bed and it stresses me out so much. I don't think it stops me from sleeping. I don't know. Maybe if I had like a full on... I mean, do you drink too much?
00:02:12
Speaker
Or just the right amount.
MasterChef Experience: Challenges and Rewards
00:02:16
Speaker
So we we've both been through the Masterchef circuit. You obviously, you won. you You got the trophy. Which, you know, congratulations. and how did you How did you find the whole experience?
00:02:30
Speaker
um amazing as an experience it was incredible really hard really stressful very anxious throughout it but um well you'll know that I think the MasterChef team are great they look after you quite well um but yeah it was a great experience ah I'm shocked I did it, to be honest. But yeah, it was hard. Like, I didn't know what to expect. um I'm really glad I did it. Probably couldn't put myself through it again. No, na no, no, like I said I loved it. I loved the experience and everything. But like, I don't like competition as much like I'm ah actually quite a competitive person. But when it comes to food, I enjoy food for a variety of reasons. And competing with it isn't really one of them.
00:03:10
Speaker
yes Um, I found throughout the whole thing that the people that did know that I was doing it, they were like, just enjoy it. Like, just enjoy the process. Have fun. And I'm like, are you crazy? yeah Like how it's possible to have fun throughout this? Like looking back, I've got really fond memories and I loved it. And retrospectively, it was an amazing experience, but.
00:03:32
Speaker
in the middle of it like absolutely not am I having fun not a chance ah kind and people were saying that yeah very much so only a couple of people knew I was doing it now like you know i just do your best enjoy it I was like well you know it like it's easy for one person to say it to you when they're not in it but when you're in there you're waiting to go in on the day the waiting round the cooking the pressure the judges It's a lot to take in and kind of process. Um, so I'd say I resonate you quite well with you on that. Um, during it, it was difficult to enjoy. Like you tried to do your best and when you had a good moment, obviously it feels amazing. Um, but it was hard, but again, you look back now and it's like, wow, it's cool. A lot of good experiences, a lot of good memories, but yeah, nothing of it, something else. I always found that like, yeah, the good moments are amazing. When you've got some good feedback, you are absolutely high.
00:04:20
Speaker
But for me, it only lasted about five minutes. Cause I was like, shit, now I've got to go and do that again. Yeah. The next one onto the, that was, that was the dread always like, yeah. Thinking about the next one. Cause you didn't have time to settle. So as soon as you kind of like, you've now that's all right. And you spent like however long stressing over that one dish, all of a sudden you just know the next one. Literally. i Yeah. I think I got a about maybe five minutes reprieve for, you know, feeling good and feeling happy ah that I'd got some good feedback and then you're like,
00:04:48
Speaker
now they've got another level of expectation and now I've got to try and meet that again and top it. It was just, I found that I got almost like singular tunnel vision during it. Like I really, I was still working full-time as I was doing it so my days off throughout the week were spent up in London filming and then I'd have to come back and practice very early in the morning and clear the kitchen so no one knew I was doing it and um it was really hard to kind of to focus on what I needed to do outside of MasterChef. I felt really bad. I probably wasn't the best head chef during that time. ah No, you we can't take too much on. um Obviously, you came through it and you can't comp complain. how You did it amazing.
00:05:27
Speaker
Oh, I don't know that amazing. I think I got through by the skin of my teeth on some of them, but... Oh, that's the same with me, like, but, you know, you still did it. and line Can't complain. But yeah, like, during that time I said, you you only focus on that, so you can't beat yourself up about, like, not being the best head chef for anything during a very short period. Felt like a lifetime, to be honest. Fair. Does it feel like a lifetime ago for you?
00:05:54
Speaker
Oh yeah, it feels like age ago, so it went 24. So it would have filmed like over three years ago now, which is absolutely insane. And so much has happened since then. um Yeah, it just seems ages ago. Yeah, it's quite... So it aired two and a half years ago. It's been a fun two and a half years, don't get me wrong. But yeah, it does feel like a lifetime ago. I've watched it back since.
00:06:16
Speaker
only a couple of times. And I've looked at it like, I couldn't do that again. that in like I don't think I could physically cook most of those dishes again under that pressure. Yeah. I reckon you could. It's one of those things that you probably didn't think you could do it at the time either, but. You get into this zone, don't yous like you? It's like, you're talking about single tunnel vision. You kind of lock into it. You're just in this whole state of your life's MasterChef and you're really into it then. And I put myself through that. Sorry, now carry on.
00:06:42
Speaker
Um, even like during the kick, I remember in one of my rounds there was a ah girl and she really sort of burnt her hand quite badly. She was only in the station next to me. I had no idea it happened. Like I was just so focused. My head was down and it's another thing. Like people always talk about how do you deal with all the cameras and everything? I'm like, mate, I had a camera like three inches away from my face and I had no idea it was there. You just don't notice it, do you? That's oh ah very much the same. I would, I was adamant as well.
00:07:10
Speaker
Well, I kind of made a note not to like look what other people are doing, just focus on what you're doing. But but when you're in it, you don't even look, you're just like so locked in. um The only time I did look, I remember it was the final and I was like, I remember saying, I think Monica or Greg, one of them said eight minutes to go. And then I looked around, the other two boys are finished. And then I'm like, I've got nothing played. It was the final as well. So it was three dishes. Yeah, that was That was stressful. That was the only time I looked and I was like, oh no. I was really, I think on nearly every single cook, I was right down to the wire. There was no, not a single one where I was like, yeah, I'm sweet. Like I'm plated. I've got a couple of minutes to go. Like not at all. It was always like three minutes to go. All right, I need to plate now. Are you maximizing your time on it? That's good. Either that or I'm just slow. I don't know. The final was a really,
00:08:00
Speaker
It was a really big one. Like it was a really long time, but it sort of went by in a blur and I had a massive balls up at the end. So it was, um, it was really scary, but I think everybody kind of, I don't know. It was a weird one. Once the final actually had finished and you'd cooked. And even though I knew I'd messed up at the end, it was kind of this relief. Cause I'm like, I don't have to do this again. Like no matter what happens, win or lose, like it's done. I can, I can go back to my normal life. It was so bizarre.
00:08:28
Speaker
No, I know exactly what you mean. I remember, I remember they just went, stop. That was it. Then I was just like, that's it. Like, because filmed over like three months, I think. And when it was over, it was just like, yeah, it's like that's it. Yeah.
00:08:39
Speaker
me a drink straight away yeah I think I had about full glasses of champagne before I called my partner. I was like, I need to take a breath. It's, I feel like I haven't had a deep breath in three or four months. It was intense.
00:08:54
Speaker
What were your, did you have any like really horrible moments that stick with you?
Lessons Learned on MasterChef: Resilience and Mistakes
00:08:59
Speaker
ah Serving a raw chicken was a big one. I served raw chicken, that weren't ideal. And white one of those moments that did I do replay in my head, um kind of when it was plated, I looked over it briefly and I was like, oh, that's a bit close. But I was like, no, I'll crack on it, it'll be all right. And then yeah, I got called out on that. Invention tests as well, that was a bit of a nightmare. But I don't know like it's just I think the big issue especially the professionals is that the fact we're putting our career on a line for people to judge which is insane because you don't really get that in many other like reality TV shows competitions you're putting your career and I said well you've you've done it like all the chefs on that show even if they mess up in the first round there's such
00:09:43
Speaker
they are so such incredible chefs because you've got to go through so many stages just to get to that point and then if they mess up on the first round people like are like oh they're rubbish they shouldn't be here what's going on like they're not it's it's a completely different environment but it's yeah it's nothing like being in an actual kitchen and you know like although yes you have time pressures and the the normal kitchen service is stressful. it's It's a completely different thing. And I said that the whole way through, like there are better chefs than me that went out earlier than me. Because I just had a bad day. Like I was very lucky that if I had a bad day, it wasn't on an elimination round. You you sound like to mirror me. That's what I used to say. Like, because there was always like, yeah, it wasn't an elimination round. I didn't know the shot. It happened twice where if it was an elimination round, I would have gone home straight away. that yeah that bit Yeah. But luckily enough, it wasn't. So got another crack at it.
00:10:30
Speaker
But yeah, no, I say, yeah, hard moments early on. And then after that, I didn't say I started to enjoy it, but I just kind of like, right, let's just go. It can't get any worse than serving raw chicken. You hope that go from here. I think one of my worst moments was I did a chow and mushy for an invention test. And I was just, I don't know, I had a blank. I had no idea what I wanted to do. And it's almost more daunting because everybody else just ran straight in and they knew what they wanted to do. Here's me. And I'm like, Oh my God.
00:11:00
Speaker
And I remember picking up some eggs and some prawns and I was like, yeah, okay, I'll do a chow mushy. Marcus, I can't remember if it made it to the final cut or not, but Marcus was like, to be honest, to say it's just really underwhelming. I was like, oh It was so heartbreaking. I couldn't, I just couldn't. I was standing there and I'm like, do not cry. Do not be that girl that cries on TV. And I was just, I think I was like biting the inside of my cheek. Cause I was like, do not cry.
00:11:28
Speaker
yeah what happens so And like when you get like you respect them as chefs massively so you want to take their feedback but I said like invention test you don't normally get dropped on that ever you know which makes for great TV obviously but you did better than me you a bit more exotic I said I did spaghetti and tomato sauce I basically they put an esca like
00:11:50
Speaker
Nice, like, that's the only thing. I was like, ah, it tasted nice, so I can't complain. Yeah. I did remember that. Like, I had a friend who I'd always call for advice, but he lived in Singapore, and he used to be Marcus' sous chef. Oh, really? I filled him in on what I did with this spaghetti and tomato sauce, and he was like, how did you plate it? And I was like, I did the freaking pasta twirl, you know, in a ladle just to make it look pretty. And he was like, that's where you messed up. He was like, Marcus hates that. He was like, Marcus, pasta should just be dropped on a plate. And obviously, it was his old sous chef. I was like, ah, yeah.
00:12:19
Speaker
That's a pretty good friend to have. Yeah, obviously I didn't tell most people, like certain people I could call upon. But yeah, he wasn't based in ah UK anyway. He was based in Singapore. So I was like, I don't know if the contract applies out there. No, you should be all right. The NDA should just be for UK, right? Yeah, yeah. It should be all right. And then I'll get a big freaking letter from through my door, but I should be all right. ah It's not like they're going to go and edit you out now, is it?
00:12:49
Speaker
That keeps coming up a lot. Did you see the season where someone got edited out on MasterChef? Oh, no. So it comes up, it's like at the beginning of one of the episodes. I think it's one, two, maybe three seasons before me. just as Only three of the four contestants will be in this episode. And it's a big thing. Like, why did they go? Oh, wow. I wonder if that was because they told people. No, what no, it wasn't. I've heard different rumours, but apparently we're not allowed to say.
00:13:17
Speaker
Oh, really? Yeah. Okay. Tell me when we've stopped recording. Tell me the gossip. It's interesting, but I expect it as well. Anyway, sorry. No, that's okay. That's all right. That's some juicy information for later. Um, and then so the final, how was that for you? Cause I mean, we all know you won and that's amazing. But what, talk me through what it was like and what it felt like. Winning or the whole final? Um, let's do the whole final.
00:13:46
Speaker
Ah, okay, so obviously buzzing to be there, that was stress. I kind of decided my dish is probably two weeks before the final. like Well, I always had an idea that I could do this, could do this. Then before the final, I was like, obviously you see who's really left. And I was looking at the chefs left, and they were brilliant chefs. And I was like, how do I make myself stand out like you got? One of the boys come from two-star background base, been trained to do MasterChef.
00:14:13
Speaker
The other boy, Aaron, like incredible chef, like private chef can adapt to anything. Like you're talking about like such like high levels here, where they've worked in the past. I was like, right, how do I stand out from them? So I was like, I'm going to do street food or base it around street food because that's what I like to cook anyway.
00:14:30
Speaker
So the idea of doing, I did Hynanese Chicken Rice for my final dish, Maine. So that's something I used to have in Singapore. It costs like UK, like £1.50. I can do this. I can make it look nice. At least I know it will be different. I'll make everything from scratch. I wanted to show as many skills as possible. So I made bow, emulsions, chili oil, I picked down crabs, I made pastry, ice cream, brining, poaching, like every single like technique I could think of I just wanted to cram it all in because I was like that's how I'll stand out.
00:15:03
Speaker
And yeah, during the final, it all came together, so I could never practice it all the way through. Because during this time, I wasn't in a professional kitchen. I had my parents' kitchen at home, which was like, I'm in a tiny little box room now, but it was like smaller than this. So I was practicing there, and I couldn't do a full run through. So I'd practice dish by dish, kind of trying to calculate what order to do stuff in, what order to go in. And then on the actual day of the final was the first time I did the whole thing together. Wow.
00:15:31
Speaker
Yeah so that's why it was a bit frantic, a bit rushed but I think I planned out everything so well because you go for it over and over in your head and then when it came to cooking it yeah i just it just worked everything kind of clicked into place as like eight minutes before the end I heard it was Greg or Monica shout like there's eight minutes to go I was like ah great nothing plated I looked around at Liam and Aaron they already plated their chill in their food looks great as expected um yeah and I was like I just remember I swore a bit. I was like, my expectations were so messy and I hate working in mess. And I basically lost it. And I think Monica came over and I was, well, one of the directors of the camera people were like, is he all right? And Monica was like, yeah, he's just in the mess. Just leave him to it. Just leave him to it. Just cracked on and got you all up. And then that was it. It was just a blur. I remember just stopping playing. I wish I could have played it a bit neater, a bit better, but
00:16:21
Speaker
once it was done i was just like wow what happened because then it was a blur the whole cooking time the order i did it in like i just it kind of all blurred into one yeah and once i'd done i sat back i was like i was pretty well i was really happy with what i'd done i said playing could have been a bit better and then obviously you do the whole thing where you leave the room and then you've just got to sit and reflect on what you've done the worst Yeah but I think for the final it was like well it's done now that's it like there's no another one there's no like if I've messed up I've messed up there's no chance of redemption but at the same time you're in the final so you're like i've I've done well enough and then going back in for the judging like that was hard obviously Liam made a little error which was just
00:17:01
Speaker
that it was heartbreaking. Obviously, you're competing against each other, but you get so close. Absolutely. And yeah, and like the judging as well, you think it would be quick, but in the final, night I think it was like 20 minutes each, 25 minutes. And then it's obviously it's edited down into this tiny little two minute speech. Yeah, that that was just a bit surreal. And then when I won, ah yeah, I someone did come up to me from the team after they'd announced I'd won and everything they were like surely you must have known I was like no no because like um I did my feedback was um'm not it was pretty much faultless which was the first time it ever happened in MasterChef for me yeah obviously the final I know they make it look quite close
00:17:43
Speaker
But the final was the first time I was like, yeah, no, I i've got everything I wanted to do done. And I was ah was well happy with it. And then I just got blind drunk and then put me in a taxi back to the hotel. ah ah Yeah. ah But it was a great experience. it was a blu It was a really, really nice day to be fair afterwards. But it was, yeah, how was the final for you?
00:18:06
Speaker
trauma like was it Did you have the day before where you kind of done all the little interviews and bits and then you go in and you just cook it on that day? Yeah, so I've got i've got a really funny story to tell. I mean, it's funny to me. I don't know if anybody else will find it funny, but the day before, so obviously you go in, you you do all the blocking, you make sure all your ingredients are there because the the final is a very big day and you don't want to be doing that on the day. You do a couple of interviews and it's quite a chill, nice preparation day.
00:18:34
Speaker
And then, so I went back to the hotel. I think the boys, the boys might've gone out for a beer or something, but I was like, not this time guys. I'm just, I would just want to go watch some movies and chill out. And I was just laying down in the bed. It must be so early. It was like eight o'clock or something. And I was like, I'll just fall asleep when I fall asleep. If I'm well rested and I wake up early, perfect. I fell asleep and it was obviously, it was July, so it was still light outside. And I woke up and I woke up at nine o'clock.
00:19:00
Speaker
But in my head it was still light outside and we were supposed to be in the taxi at like 8.30 or something like that the next morning. I woke up in a blind panic thinking it was nine o'clock the next morning. I fully rang a D, shout out to a D, who she was our logistics everything. We rang her in a panic, half trying to put my hair up in a bun. I'm like, oh my God, I'm so sorry, I'm late, blah, blah, blah. And she's like, what are you talking about? And I'm like,
00:19:24
Speaker
is the ah The taxi, is it not here? And she's like, say it's nine o'clock in the evening. Oh my God. Did you have to explain what was going on? I did. Yeah, obviously. Obviously. I think she kind of guessed what had happened. She either thought I was a raging lunatic or that I'd just fallen asleep and woken up, but like the stress and the panic from it. i It took me another three hours to settle back down because I could feel my heart going and I was so panicked.
00:19:51
Speaker
So that's how I started off, you know, getting ready for the final. I can feel how you would have felt. Yeah. I honestly thought that I'd miss the final. I don't think they'd let you miss the final. That door would have got kicked down. Yeah, maybe. But in my head, I was like, Oh my God, I've got to put on my makeup. I've got to do my hair. I've got to grab all my bits. I was super stressed. But then like, sorry. Did I do your makeup? Did you do your own? No, no, I did my own.
00:20:20
Speaker
It's like, you've got makeup artists as well. No, that would have been nice. Um, no, no, no, no. But anyway, um, so then the next day we go in and I'm obviously very, very nervous. Um, I was similar to you. I did get to do one run through of my final dish, but it was July and I was still a head chef and working full time. Like it was busy and it wasn't like the other, the other practices that I got to do where they were, you know, an hour, an hour and a half long, this one was a big boy. yeah Um, so I think I did one, one, one full run through. I had to get up at like four 30 to be in the kitchen at five, set up, do my practice, clean down before 10, before anyone comes in. And I was just, honestly, I was wrecked from everything.
00:21:04
Speaker
Um, so I didn't, I didn't get to practice as much as I like. I practiced the individual dishes. Um, and yeah, I mean, the final for me was a bit of a blur. There are a couple of things that went wrong that didn't go wrong in the practice, which is really annoying. Um, and then my dessert, it just, I couldn't get it out of the mold. It had spent like two and a half hours in the blast chiller, cause it was the first thing that I did. And I had four of these desserts cause I ordered two sets of the molds and only one of them came in, which had four things in it.
00:21:34
Speaker
So I was like, fuck it. I'm just going to go with it. Yeah. I popped the first one out. The first one was perfect. I popped the second one out and it completely shit itself. The insert had just exploded. I didn't do the basic enough. And then Marcus came over and was standing next to me. I was like.
00:21:49
Speaker
i just know when to come over and yeah And I didn't make a scene or anything. I popped it out and I think under my breath, I was like, shit. And then he came over and he's like, have you got more of those? I'm like, Marcus, I'm not going to lie. If these two don't come out perfect, we're going to have to go to plan B. But I was, I was really, really fortunate. So very early on, Marcus had said to me, don't get rid of anything.
00:22:11
Speaker
keep everything until the last minute, because if the shit hits the fan, at least you have something to play. So I did exactly that. I had like a piping bag of mousse, I had my sponge, had everything set just in case. So I think I had about five minutes to come up with a second dessert and also plate my other two courses. So it was an absolute mad rush. I managed to you know still have all the same elements, but it was nowhere near what I wanted it to be. um And like you said that once you've plated it and you have that whatever hour of downtime while they're doing their filming for for all the comments and stuff like that, I was just running through my head like I've really balls this up. um And in my head, I knew that there was sort of no chance that I was going to win. I knew at that point that it was almost past redemption. But to be fair, um mine was very much like yours, except for obviously some of the plating because it was very rushed at the end.
00:23:05
Speaker
um that was the only negative comment that I had about anything and like you know we know that they edit things out and stuff like that but hand on heart I didn't have any negative comments about my actual flavors in the dish itself so i was really really proud of that regardless of the fact that i didn't win but the platform you're on everything like you've got to take it like any feedback you get instead like to be at that position anyway like like you can't knock it like it's just it's great to be there i like that's it like you got you gotta i be proud of it i said like there's always you'll look back and think oh i wish i could have done like this could it different hindsight's a wonderful thing isn't it but
00:23:42
Speaker
Like you did it. That's why even on the rounds of messed up, I still look well, I was there. I did it. Like can't knock it. I think it's different when you make a mistake and you, you know, you're not going to win and it always plays through your head. You're like.
00:23:56
Speaker
If I had got that dessert, how I wanted it to be, would I have been in with a chance? Which to be fair, probably not because Tom's dishes were faultless, like absolutely faultless.
00:24:07
Speaker
and umm He's a funny lad, isn't he Tom? He is really funny. I think he's, um, he doesn't come across as goofy on camera as what he actually is in real life. Like he's a real goofball and on camera, he's really stiff and prim and proper. And you're like, who is this guy?
00:24:22
Speaker
I find that the same with the Liam and my series. that and He was so, like almost emotionless and serious at times on camera. yeah so Soon as he's off, like he's like a proper lad, like he's a lovely guy. Like he's just proper, like loud, laddy lad. That's the kind of person he is. Yeah. Yeah, Tom's the same.
00:24:38
Speaker
It's like kind of like switches, like fixed in focused. It's it interesting. But yeah, i've after meeting Tom, I know exactly what you mean. Yeah. He's a funny guy. and He's so young as well. So young. You're going to the gym since MasterChef. Oh, it's all we heard. Sorry, Tom. Love you. But it's all we heard about during MasterChef was I haven't had time to go to the gym or, you know, these lunches they're giving me, I'm not getting enough protein. I'm like, oh, come on, shut up.
00:25:06
Speaker
Yeah, well he's stuck to it, can't knock him for that. No, for sure, for sure. He's just, um he's so young in some ways. Nice guy. I forgot to text on my phone off him now, actually. Yeah, it's talking about doing something next year. Tell him we're chatting shit about him.
00:25:23
Speaker
of What was life like after MasterChef? Because obviously, you know, like it kind of really puts you on this different journey, which is all what we wanted to do, you know, we go on there, there's no prize money, we go on there for it to give us different opportunities.
Life After MasterChef: Opportunities and Business Ventures
00:25:36
Speaker
What was what was it like for you afterwards?
00:25:39
Speaker
um Well, obviously you've got like the six months alone where you can't tell anyone, you like you know what you've done, but you can't say anything. So I actually really enjoyed that because obviously the pressure of MasterChef, I moved to work for a family in Jersey. That was really nice. I could switch off, forgot to happen. When it came out, they kind of told me like, it'll go big. So I hadn't watched MasterChef before. I knew of it. Obviously I knew the skills test. The only reason I entered was kind of my friend talked me into entering because she was talking about a chef that was on there before and she was like, oh, they're so good. They're so good. Maybe in a cocky little arrogant shit, basically like, oh, I can do that. It's fine. They're not that good. And obviously, as soon as you get on the show, you're like, I can't do this. it like It's just so, so much harder than you think. But that's the reason I entered, basically, my mate talked me into it whilst I was drunk.
00:26:23
Speaker
I went through it really obviously enjoyed it but then after they kind of say like it's a big thing like people will like like to go and I'll never forget it so got some friends and family over to watch it in a pub put a screen up then I had to get to Manchester the next morning So the taxi was booked waiting outside in Birmingham, dropped me to Manchester. I remember that taxi journey up, my phone just went insane. It was like 10,000 notifications, 15,000 notifications. So I turned my phone off, got to this Holiday Inn in Manchester. They dropped me at the wrong one. It was like 1, 2 a.m. in the morning now. I'm walking around trying to find BBC Studios, get to the right one, got into the hotel, and the anxiety just took over. I'll never forget, like, next morning I woke up to see a BBC breakfast.
00:27:08
Speaker
And I was like, I can't do this. I was like, I just can't. I was like, I will sit in this room and do it on Zoom. yeah um Yes, so I ended up doing that, doing the whole radio. So I went to Manchester for no reason. I was good. But then after that, yeah, it was just all the opportunities stock start coming through. The first two, three months is an absolute whirlwind.
00:27:29
Speaker
because so many opportunities. don't I didn't really have a plan after like people approached me for X1Z. It was just a bit of a roller coaster. But it was amazing. The support I got from obviously my family, my friends, then just the West Midlands in general, and then people in the UK. And then obviously I started doing the pop-ups. They were going really well.
00:27:48
Speaker
it was just a world I couldn't complain like the opportunities that have come from it like I knew kind of what I was doing as well like Singapore dishes Hong Kong dishes i places I've lived or where I'm from and I really want to emphasize that so I had Singapore tourism board Hong Kong tourism board they're getting in touch then I managed to arrange like trips out to work with them like yeah it was just a bit of a crazy one but my life has gone completely changed because i was so used to living abroad i like living abroad i like traveling exploring that's what i've done now i'm kind of can't do that because of that i'm not complaining at all because i've had some amazing opportunities and stuff but like i'm kind of grounded now which is um is interesting interesting
00:28:25
Speaker
it's different isn't it it's very different i've been so before like i'd be like right um time for the next place book a flight and i'd move somewhere else like and that's just how i live my life so now i'm here a bit more responsibilities um but it's it's good fun still like i said it's changed completely um one thing i say is like i don't learn as much as i used to yeah and i've i've had a few moments where i've kind of lost my passion for cooking mainly because instead of cooking i'm doing the most random things like completely irrelevant that's come from MasterChef and don't get me wrong some of them pay quite well but it's just not stuff i'm doing social media is a big one for me i don't like social media um as in like i don't like doing it myself i don't like always having you have to post at this time you have to do this you have to do this picture
00:29:10
Speaker
I don't care. You've probably gone on Instagram and I don't post anymore. Unless I had a deal or I'm paid to post or just a ah I don't, I'm not interested. Unless I really like it. and said Unless I'm creating or learning something, I don't do much. So that's one thing I don't like, but I get shouted out a lot because I've got a street food business now as well that's obviously benefited from MasterChef.
00:29:32
Speaker
Um, yeah, I got people on my case about the social media for that. Cause I just don't post or anything. And then my argument was I want to be one of these kinds of places that don't have social media. They don't really care. You know, you just kind of build on customers and they were like, we get that, but it's also stupid in today's world to even think you can do that. I don't know. I feel like it can go either way. Like when you see these really cool restaurants that don't take any reservations, you're like. Bullsey, but I like it. Yeah. yeah I was doing it so like, can I do it with social media? I was like, I don't know. But yeah, I'm just, it's been a learning curve. I've learned so many things, like met some amazing people. One like thing I'm buzzing about from MasterChef is that the amount of chefs I've met like and the opportunities I've had to go meet some chefs and learn from them, how they think, like, yeah, that's cool.
00:30:14
Speaker
I think that was a really big thing for me as well. Cause like only being here for a few years and sort of having my head down and working the whole time. I really genuinely hadn't met a lot of people. I didn't grow up here. I didn't grow up with that kind of community. So the, the sort of friendships that I got to make from that was almost invaluable. You know, it was better than the whole experience. Cause now I know that, you know, if I go to a different city, I, I work well.
00:30:39
Speaker
I lost my words. I was with him on MasterChef. I was with her on MasterChef, you know, it was a huge community building thing for me. Oh, that's brilliant. I agree more. Like, cause obviously you go through it all together, even though you're competing against each other, because you're going through it all together, you're like, you get so close. And that's nice as well. I'm glad you hit that. Yeah. Because obviously it can be such an isolating job being a chef in terms of life and stuff.
00:31:02
Speaker
Absolutely and it kind of like I mean we've got you and me on a podcast now and we didn't do MasterChef together but we still went through the same experience which means that we get to connect through that you know it's um it's just not just the people that you went on with it's it's way further than that I think.
00:31:18
Speaker
So it's like, yeah, you kind of build a community. is there There is a nice little MasterChef community, actually, the more you think about it. Because I said, Nikita, who won the year after May, like, I've been a few dinners with her. Tom, obviously, I did a dinner with him not too long ago. ah We all did it together. So it's it's quite nice. And you start meeting people.
00:31:33
Speaker
Yeah, no, I do. I like the community of MasterChef and the people you meet and everything. I will come to Bristol as well at one point. Please, please dear God, come to Bristol. I don't know. Yeah. I said it's close. I'll come down to Bristol. I just need to find time off. That's a big thing I've messed up since MasterChef. Work-life balance. That doesn't exist. No, that's really bad as well. My partner and I were sort of looking back since we finished up our jobs and started our own business and we were looking back and we were like,
00:32:03
Speaker
When was the last time we did take a day off? Like a full day, you know? Like a day where you don't do anything. No emails, no phone calls, no menus, no nothing. And we kind of looked at it. And even when we went on holiday to Wales, I don't know, two months ago, we still had to, you know, spend a couple of hours in the morning doing emails and replying to things. And I guess that's just part and parcel of having your own thing. But also I'm like, can we just have one day where almost we put our devices on flight mode and go for a walk in the forest or something.
00:32:32
Speaker
oh I've been literally mimicking me now because that is exactly what I want, what I need. I said, like, normally I'm used to doing that. Before MasterChef, I'd just disappear. Like, i't like ah I would literally disappear. You can't do it now. Can't turn my phone off. Can't, it said, like, just switch off. Like, a a friend of mine went to basically, he messaged me after the weekend. He was like, oh, sorry, I didn't get back. I was, I just took the dog to a cabin in Wales and there was no signal. And I was like, tell me where this cabin is.
00:32:59
Speaker
going there like that sounds ideal for me it sounds crazy because obviously i love the i love the fact i can communicate with the chefs i love like obviously you get support from everywhere people ask you questions about what you do and it's something you're passionate about which is great but yeah you need to find that balance i'm preaching it like as if i do it myself i don't i have no balance at all which is something i'm trying to work on but i'd say i definitely encourage it now But if you own your own business, set it's difficult. Like I just want to switch off. I know it's hard. And I feel like you almost feel like you're letting yourself and your business and other people down. If you if you do try and decide to take that day where you don't reply to anything. But I think it's really important to remember and again, I'm preaching it, but can't do it that like if you don't respond to an email for a day, no one's going to die. You know, yeah the world is going to keep turning.
00:33:48
Speaker
yeah It's trying to convince yourself off that though. like Sometimes I'll be there. I'll be like, Sunday night after work, I'll be stressed. I'm like, okay, I got to get this email. You think no one's going to reply. No one cares if you respond on a Sunday night because no one else works Sunday night. It's just you. And i yeah the world's not going to end if you don't respond to an email. But I said, like, you just said it to me as well. And I was like, I can't not do it. It's because you don't want to let people down as well, especially like people are supporting you and stuff like that. But then people do take the piss of it as well. Yeah.
00:34:18
Speaker
Massively, I've learned that, massively. Not every opportunity is an opportunity. No, yeah, I learned that as well. I've done some random stuff. I've done some really cool stuff as well. That's why I'm always hesitant to turn down opportunity. But now I've came to the point where I was like, basically winding up everything I've got booked in, which I just ran my calendar for. And once I've wound all that up, yeah, I'm going to do my street food business for a bit, um focus on that, and then not basically do as many externals or other stuff just because I think it sounds nice. Don't get me wrong. like I got off to go to the Maldives last year. If someone comes up and offers that again, I'm going to go there. Absolutely. and Yeah, ah it benefits me like or is it my well-being as well. Yeah. I can't really feel like full on work if it's in the Maldives, you know. Well, it was one dinner and I got a six day holiday there. So I was like, oh, that's nice. That's nice. So talk to me about your street food business. What's that going to be? What can we expect from it?
00:35:16
Speaker
but So, it's made a few changes. I set up with an old friend who basically he screwed me over and the whole team over. and We won't go into that, he's not worth the time. So, we've made like since then, myself and the team, we've just kind of like rebranded, we've basically changed it all over and then we'll just do focus on Basically, kind of traditional food, because everyone says, oh, we're authentic this, or' authentic that. Like for me, um it's really difficult to do authentic food, especially Asian food, because the ingredient, unless you pay through the roof, because the ingredients are obviously one way out there, so cheap. You want kaffir lime, you want Thai basil, pick it off a lime leaf, pick it off the tree. So you pay X amount here.
00:35:56
Speaker
So we try and keep it as authentic as possible, but also adapting to a Western palette. So the idea is we've took street food from around Asia, but I'll only do it in the places I'm from, where i'm live I've lived or I'm well-versed. So Singapore, Thailand, Hong Kong, they're our main focuses. So we just do dishes based around that. Sometimes I'll throw in katsu.
00:36:15
Speaker
chicken on the menu. Obviously I've not been to Japan. um I'd love to go. I know it's Japanese but I've also learned in business you need to plead the crowders please the crowd as well. So as much as I get a lot of foodies and people coming up to try my food like Hainanese chicken rice, a lot of sambal dishes, a lot of traditional dishes.
00:36:33
Speaker
I'm aware of where I am in Birmingham, Friday, Saturday nights, everyone's pissed up, they want chicken katsu, they want fried chicken sweet and sour, like and I will provide some, I've run a business, I need to make money. yeah So it's like finding the balance for that, which was quite difficult for me at first, because I was like, I don't want to do katsu chicken, I don't personally like it. um But then you've got to please the crowd, and obviously if we're going to do it, we're going to make the best one we possibly can, which I think we try and execute quite well.
00:36:58
Speaker
So yeah Street Food Business is doing well. We're based at Hockley Social Club in Birmingham so that's like a residency. We're there all the time chopping and changing dishes. This week I'm getting all new signs and stuff built which doesn't sound exciting. I love doing stuff like that. I love just reorganizing like buying a new fridge as well. Can't wait for that. Yeah. This is my excitement. The little joys.
00:37:18
Speaker
Oh yeah, ah getting all that built up and then I bought a trailer not too long ago and so we're doing a street, it was an old burger trailer from like a football ground so we basically converted, kind of converted it, we kind of slapped a bit of paint and stuff on it, but ah repurposed it for our needs and we do little tours of that so once or twice a month we'll go to random Midlands, Dig Buff Dining Club basically they help support us, we'll go through different events but we do weddings and stuff as well but again this is me not trying to take too much on so I'm basically saying no to a lot of things at the moment but Yeah and we go and that's a similar menu but obviously once you're out on the road you've got to adapt quite quickly to what you can serve and to be honest it's been hard because my main focus hasn't been there. I've been happy with what's going on but because I'm trying to do this and that and this is where again like poor work-life balance
00:38:05
Speaker
It's kind of, I haven't, my focus hasn't been there. So that's why I'm kind of switching over to now. So I'm just back there serving street food, which sounds crazy because everyone expects me to do fine dining, Michelin star, which I've done in my past, like, and I really enjoyed it. We did, I did very well in that kind of area.
00:38:21
Speaker
and I just like street food. I just like, I still want it to look nice. I just like focus on big bold flavours. I'm not fussed about doing three million dots on a plate. um Not in a bad way. Like I said, I've gone for it. I've done it. um I just like street food because it's a bit more of a community food, especially MasterChef. Millions of people watch that.
00:38:41
Speaker
but millions of people can't afford to spend like £200 when I do a fine dining dinner. So I was like, I try my best to make my food accessible and affordable, which I think I do quite well. People still complain it's too expensive, but there's no winning. Like my highly-kneesed chicken rice, don't get me wrong, I know in Singapore, as I said, you can get for £1.52, mine is £12.
00:39:02
Speaker
but wage costs, tax, food costs in the yeah UK. Like we make everything from scratch, which certain truths like certain street food traders don't do. It's easy it' just to buy, go buy your mayonnaise and stuff like that. Like our sambals, our emulsions, we make from scratch, and which I love. And that's the part of past of it. One thing I did learn about the street food industry though, like it's hard and there's some amazing chefs here. Like the ones I've worked alongside like at these events, like,
00:39:30
Speaker
Oh, I don't think they get enough credit for what they do. Like, wow. Like I've been into, I said, like working some very good restaurants. There's better chefs in the street food, like cooking up like over a barbecue or something. Then they have in these fine dining restaurants. ah Yeah. No, that's, that I love that. That's another little community in itself.
00:39:50
Speaker
It's hard graft, isn't it? like i I haven't been in the street food scene at all, but I love eating street food. I always find that I think because you only get like sort of one thing, it's you have to pack so much flavour into it because that's the memory that people are going to have. If they buy a taco or if they buy fried rice, they are buying that and that's going to be their one thing. It's not a tasting menu where you've got multiple courses and you have to kind of think like I don't want to overwhelm their palate and try all these different things. You you really need to make sure that they remember those 10 mouthfuls. Yeah and you have to know that and it is difficult doing, it's hard work as I said like you face a lot of issues with street food industry. Staff's always a big one, I think that's just across the board in the industry at the moment though. um
00:40:36
Speaker
And then you have to adapt to where you are. you know Your power might cut out, your gas might go, you might not have gas, you might not have power. like like That's difficult to like switch and change. Like I said, I'm buying a new fridge because mine cut out last week. I was like, I need to buy more storage for stuff like that. Because you're very kind of just...
00:40:52
Speaker
Not making it up as you go, but you need to adapt quickly, I'd say that. um And it is long hours, it's hard work, you run your feet, because you've got to bear in mind, when you shut down your kitchen at the end of the night, you're like, okay, wipe down, good give it a good deep clean scrub before you're done. Imagine doing that, but then you're like, okay, now we have to take the kitchen apart. Like that's, and then in the morning when you arrive, it's not, okay, we'll put the orders away. Okay, let's set the kitchen up. but Your days are a lot longer than you think. When you get given a residency or maybe like two, three days at the same location,
00:41:20
Speaker
you're buzzing because obviously you don't have to do the whole pack down for like a night or two nights but it's hard work if people don't come out because of the weather or something like that it's a huge hit um like it's so up and down but i think it's with the hospitality industry in general but if you're doing say a festival on a weekend like a food festival and you're banking on an x amount of money to make you buy all the stock you get the stuff on then it rains and people just don't want to come out of their houses it can it can be hard That's really hard. I think like we, we don't sort of see that side of it, but trying to guess how much you're going to need. It's just, it must be so hard. I can't even imagine like, if you've got a festival that 30,000 people are going to come to, how do you, how do you be like, okay, of those 30,000, I'm going to get 600 on this day and 800 on this day. like It's just, I don't even know how you do that.
00:42:12
Speaker
yeah it's kind of just kind of put it together so was it last weekend or the weekend before i did a place called herbert's yard so we did the weekend there i'm trying to anticipate in it i said we had about four different things on the menu i was like okay there for bank holiday weekend we've got a few things on the menu i'm going to make 30 liters of katsu sauce i think that'll be okay that's okay 70 liters i needed in the end so that's me going back to the main kitchen every morning like and it was just insane i wasn't complaining because i like it was great for me it was a good reception but it's you still learn as you go like yeah very much like you suddenly know it yeah seven liters of katsu for 40 liters of sambal sambal was the hard one because it takes me about 24 hours to make and i just like i said the numbers i just wasn't anticipating it was great to have and we pulled it off in the end um but yeah sometimes you've just got
00:43:01
Speaker
guests and then try and pull it out the bag.
Culinary Comparisons: Private Dining and Street Food
00:43:05
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. i um I think that it was definitely a big learning curve for us. So we both finished our jobs in end of February to do private dining and supper clubs. um Basically, because we just, we knew once I finished MasterChef,
00:43:19
Speaker
We had to have something for people to sink their teeth into. We needed something to promote. And, you know, I wasn't planning on staying where I was anyway. It was a job that I said I would do for a year um because very much like you, we usually do a year in a place and then move countries and stuff like that. yeah But again, very similarly, after MasterChef, we probably would have moved already if it wasn't for that, but we've kind of just settled for a little bit.
00:43:44
Speaker
um but like the packing up everything it's not just the prep it's not like a normal restaurant where you prep it you go have a break before service and then come back and do the service it's prep it from nine o'clock in the morning and then pack all the plates pack all the equipment pack all the food drive to where you need to go which could be up to two and a half three hours away set up there cook the meal clean down the kitchen pack back the car drive back home it's probably midnight one o'clock in the morning unpack everything because you don't want to do it the next morning it's just it's very very different it's it's longer hours than i think we thought it was going to be and that's that's just for private dining and supper clubs i can't even imagine the difference from that between um doing a food truck and you know having a huge amount of people coming
00:44:27
Speaker
Yeah, it's a few more people on a food trip, so it makes it easier. But I agree with the pride. You go for that. i I've got another one on Thursday. I'm really looking forward to it because it's nice. when I want you to set up and you get going. But it is hard work and people don't really realise that. I like how there's so many different sectors to the industry there. It's very different.
00:44:45
Speaker
yeah each like whether it's a restaurant varying restaurants obviously you could have a brasserie you could have fine dining you could have a buffet style they're all different but they're all hard and they all require skill in their own a little way as well so i just don't like you when you meet chefs who think they know it all because they work at two star or three star big modes ick i don't know what i call it yeah yeah could be an nick be yeah i think um I think sometimes people, when they've only been in the one sort of sector their whole career, it's really easy to think that that's the hardest sector. yeah um But put someone like that in a food truck for a weekend and they will be destroyed I think.
00:45:22
Speaker
Oh yeah, they they can't do it. I said it's not in general. A lot of chefs are good at adapting, but like I've worked with chefs in the past. This was a Michelin star restaurant. He'd only ever worked in two and three stars. I was like, okay. I asked him to just whack on staff dinner, like just get it done, like just some pasta or something crumbled. like how how it's really interesting because i found that a master chef as well like if a chef went out early on and they'd only worked in one place so they're very good like focusing that they can't adapt to a studio kitchen they can't adapt certain things it's not because they're a bad chef or anything but
00:45:53
Speaker
They used to their comforts, home comforts. That's there. That's there. Like it's really interesting, but like private dining, you'll find it now. Obviously you've gone into it in February. like I did that for quite a few years before MasterChef. You have to adapt wherever you go. Like you do. Yeah. And that's it. And that helped me massively on MasterChef because I just like, right. It's another the random kitchen I'm going into. How are you going to do it?
00:46:16
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. I remember reading um when I was doing a little bit of research on you that you, I don't remember this when I was watching you, but you served chicken feet on the chef's table.
00:46:26
Speaker
Yeah, so chicken feet on chef's table. I was blursing about that. um I remember when obviously you submit your dishes beforehand and they're like, ah, Dan, you sure you want to do this? I was like, yeah, like 100%. I like to eat it. I know it's allowed that whole vision around it, but I mean, I did chicken feet. So what I did, I de-boned them.
00:46:45
Speaker
because normally I love chicken feet because you kind of like the great flavor interesting texture and a lot of Chinese food is not that chicken feet isn't just one of them but like ah sea cucumber abalone stuff like that it's all based on texture that that's something I had to wrap my head around when I was diving a bit more into Chinese cuisine the way we look at flavors Chinese also look at textures the same way. So you might be eating a dish purely based around the texture of the dish. So you're there like, oh, it doesn't really taste like much, but you're not looking for that. You're looking for the texture. I thought that was really interesting. That is really interesting. Yeah. It's just an interesting way to look at food.
00:47:20
Speaker
um but yes i like Anyway, I was like, yeah, ah chicken feet. I want to do it. like I'm going to do dim sum. It'll work. I knew it was pressure. like But for me, everyone was like, oh, it's a bit rogue. But I grew up eating it. So I was like, I know what I want from it. I know it tastes nice. And I'll just go from there. But like yet originally, they were a bit hesitant. and Like, are you sure you want to do that? I was like, yeah, like no one's done it before. i Why not? Absolutely.
00:47:44
Speaker
I got quite happy with it. So I was like, obviously chicken feet. I don't know if anyone else is doing TV. It was definitely a first time MasterChef. One thing I did like, I used Koji and it's a, I can't remember, it's an Instagram account or like a company that makes Koji in the UK. And they commented saying, I think that's the first time Koji's been used on British television, which is quite nice. Some of the chef will probably just fly up now and be like, no, it was me, it was me. But yeah, that was nice.
00:48:09
Speaker
We'll wait for that to come through. Chicken feet was something I grew up with. Yeah, it was a selection of dimps. I'm just dimps I normally get when I go to eat. A Chinese takeaway. Sorry, Chinese restaurants. I'd be like, yeah, I want to cook that for them. What were the comments you got? I very much made it because I went along. How many people did you have on your chef's table? I remember I had to make 14 dishes. 14? We had to make 14 dishes, but I'm sure it was like 10 or 11 chefs.
00:48:39
Speaker
Then Marcus Monica and one for camera, I think. I think that was it. but Of course, like the one I used on camera, was and it was the chicken fit, especially because it had like a rice noodle sheet over the top. Bit stressful to make, but I kind of nailed them all. The one they use for the photos when they do the shots was a ripped one. ah One ripped one, I was so heartbroken. I was like, obviously, like no one really watches that, notices that when you watch on TV, but like, you know, fuming, throwing stuff at the TV. I think that's one of the hardest things, um, like as a chef, but also a master chef is you, you know what you want it to look like and nobody else knows that. And you know that nobody else knows what it needs to look like in your head, but when you put it on the plate and you're not happy with it and everyone's like, it looks fine. And you're like, yeah, but it doesn't look how supposed to look. yeah
00:49:25
Speaker
Yeah. And people don't really, yeah, they they get that, but i I completely get it as well. Yeah. And it like sets you off even though it shouldn't, even though it's still probably still looks great. I'm very much on this journey at the moment to try and be like positive work-life balance, stuff like that. I mean, like the second day of it. What were your, what were your comments? Who, who did you get comments from for your chicken feet?
00:49:49
Speaker
I'm really bad at names. I'll put you on the spot now, sorry. and No, no, okay. Just to throw it out there, like I don't know chefs, like in terms of like, everyone seems to know who that chef is that works there. Like I just don't really show an interest in it. but Yeah, I'm bad for that as well.
00:50:02
Speaker
um Daniel Clifford I'll never forget his comments like that was amazing like amazing feedback like he was like to get you all done to do all with this brilliant he did make a negative comment which they actually cut out but I will share because I don't think it was a bad one he said so as I said like covered the chicken feet in a rice noodle sheet He said that if I was bold enough to serve chicken feet, I should have let him be visible. And he said he would have put like a huge, like crispy chicken foot on the top or something like that. So I think that's like very constructive fit feedback.
00:50:32
Speaker
um
00:50:35
Speaker
Oh, I can't remember a name. This is so bad. I should not remember it. Well, I do remember a name. I don't want to pronounce it wrong. No, that's OK. Nieves from Saboor, Saboor in London. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She was like, I'd never had chicken feet before. It was amazing. That was obviously incredible feedback to get. Glyn Parnell, he's obviously Birmingham based. I used to work for him in 2011. He definitely doesn't remember me then, but he pretends he does now. He got great feedback from him, obviously. He's a brum and chef, actor, Islam as well.
00:51:05
Speaker
as he just got two stars of the theme. The thing I really liked about Akhtar's feedback, I remember getting on day, because you're like, you you stand there, you're like, you can't believe these chefs are even talking to me kind of thing. But Akhtar, I was surprised it's about a year ago, I bumped into him. um He came up to me and he was like, oh, weirdly enough, I was talking about your chef's table the other day to someone. And this was like a year and a half, two years after it aired. yeah I was speaking to somebody, he remembered it was the turnip cake I did alongside the chicken feet. And that was like, obviously it wasn't on the day, but that was like, that was really cool. I was like, you remembered that dish. So clearly I fucking nailed it. Like I did all right with it. And then you're still talking about it. Now that made me really happy. So even on the date of feedback, I was like, it was incredible. Like I couldn't get my head around who was talking to me and stuff like that. and But yeah, the fact that someone remembered it as someone as good as actor, I remembered it for that long after and then came and told me about it. I was like, I was buzzing at that.
00:51:56
Speaker
That's almost better than the compliments that you get on the day, isn't it? Yeah, I didn't want to say that, but it's it's like it is. Yeah. The fact someone remembered it, because like for me, food has always been about memories, like evoking memories. Like, you you know, you kind of eat something. so Oh, that reminded me of they're that. And the fact that he's kept on to that as a memory, ah ah I'm well happy with that.
00:52:16
Speaker
That's so cool. I remember Matt Abe spoke to me and I was dying. This is not happening. I have not just met Matt Abe, not possible. And he had some really nice things to say. And I remember afterwards when they were all leaving and we were sort of packing down, Akhtar came up to me and asked me for the recipe for my tart shell. And I was like, Oh my God. I was, what did I say? I don't know if I actually gave it to him. I think I gave him the brief rundown of it. I was like... But that was huge. Too far since then, you should take credit for that. That was huge. I was really excited. That's amazing, isn't it? Maybe I should protect on Instagram and give him the recipe for it. You want to get attached to a pop-up of oafy? Yeah, like, sure he'll let me do that, but...
00:53:05
Speaker
It is amazing. ma abe yeah i don always say I forgot he was there. Obviously I didn't. It's just like a blur of that moment. Absolutely. I have a good feedback off them. it's just That's a surreal part of the whole show, isn't it? Just being in a room cooking for them. Because when in the world is that ever going to happen again? you know do All of them at once. like Never.
00:53:29
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know if they'd be so nice again. Probably not. I think they were plied up with alcohol and everyone was feeling pretty merry. So that helps. Yeah, well, I've done it. I did it last year and I'm doing it actually in two weeks time. at The Dorchester, they do. It's for Cure Luke, Emu UK. It's a brilliant charity. They do Who's Cooking Dinner.
00:53:49
Speaker
And that's a bit of a win. So they basically get some of the best chefs in the UK. You got your Tom Carridge, Daniel Glover, Ollie Dubu. They all come down and join part of it. There's like literally about 20 of them. And they all cook. So there's about 10, 20 tables. ah They're not cheap. Obviously, it's for a good cause. And then all these chefs, like you're talking about the three stars, the two star chefs, just the best chefs in the country. They all get up on stage. They pick a number out of a hat. Whatever number they pick,
00:54:18
Speaker
that's who theyre to whose table they're cooking for. Right. Yeah, so it's really interesting. There's only like 10, 12 people. I think it's like 10, 15 around the table. But you pick it, they pick the number out of the hat and they're cooking your dinner. So the event's called Who's Cooking Dinner? So you don't find out on a day until who's cooking your table dinner. But I did it last year and obviously I was just there to help just wherever I could because I like to learn. I wrangled my way in as I normally do. um But I was just walking around and you're just watching like all in one kitchen or split a couple of, the best chefs.
00:54:47
Speaker
creating the most of it and i'm just stood there like wow that that was cool that was really cool so you take photos of lots of recipes wherever you could There was no recipes to be taken. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
00:55:09
Speaker
no, He was wicked, but I just tried to help wherever I could. You had Tom Bhutan from obviously the grill at the Dorchester. He was there. Charlie, he was on MasterChef the year after me. Ah, yes. He was still at Alandakas at the time, so he was helping out. He looked very serious on the day, though. I bet he did. Yeah, like you can tell, like, well, obviously we did our little thing in Alandakas at the Dorchester. What was it? For the final? I can't remember. Like, I don't know. It was an invention test and you cook there basically like a stargier kind of thing. That was amazing. Is that instead of an away trip, was it?
00:55:50
Speaker
Yeah, we couldn't do it an away chip because it was COVID. So we went there, but obviously it was amazing. Jean-Philippe came up to us and he's like, ha, if this was a real service, not MasterChef, I'd fucking kill you all.
00:56:02
Speaker
In a really nice way. He was a lovely guy. They had a really nice way, yeah. swear yeah yeah but He said it with a smile in his face, so I take it like that. But no, it was just, that was an amazing experience. Just to cook for this. I said, this is all from MasterChef. I've been lucky enough to work with some amazing chefs throughout my career. Just amplified by MasterChef. That's so crazy. I like to go and sell this to students. They're like, you go into a couple of places. You must get it as well. If you've done a supper club and take over, they just think you know it all.
00:56:28
Speaker
And I was like, no, I don't. I want to learn. I like collaborations because I can learn off of the people. Absolutely. I think that's probably one of the biggest things that I realized because I've only ever had one head chef position in my first one and my last one until we opened our business.
Culinary Philosophy: Learning, Adapting, and Preferences
00:56:43
Speaker
And I realized that when you become a head chef, you're responsible for your own learning. And that is not as fun as you're trying to teach everyone else. And it's trying to find time so you can learn and like progress. And that's why I'd say I've I haven't gone backwards since MasterChef but it's restricted how much I can kind of explore and expand and do stuff because of the adult responsibilities.
00:57:07
Speaker
Yeah, no, I really agree with that. And like, we always try and, you know, read books and read recipes and check out who's doing what on Instagram and what's trending at the moment. And I mean, we never get to eat out. So that's not helpful, but it is, it's hard. Like you kind of almost, you find a recipe that you want to try. So you just try it for your, for your dinner and your dinner ended up taking like three or four hours. It's.
00:57:32
Speaker
Yeah, it's hard. It's hard. I really liked it more being I wish I had have enjoyed it more when I was a chef to party instead of trying to think I knew everything and trying to be the best at everything. Yeah, I wish that I had have just really taken my time and enjoyed it and and enjoyed the learning process a lot more instead of trying to rush through it. No, I'd agree. I completely agree with that because you don't until you stop as it was the classic like you don't know what you got till it's gone.
00:58:00
Speaker
You don't really appreciate like the whole learning, like just bounce around, learning off other people. Because it said once you're put into like a management position, you can't do that. You've got responsibilities to make sure everyone's doing it that way. And that's hard to take. That's why I'm trying to like run away to Thailand for a week or so. Because that kind of place like Thailand, Singapore as well, Philippines, I'll just go there for a week and just disappear into the food. Just walk around, go speak to locals. And that's how I like to learn.
00:58:27
Speaker
Then I'll end up speaking to chefs, trying to get in with them, like just go work a day in their kitchen. and I don't miss doing that. They said I can't now because I can't even turn off my phone or just leave the country for a day. we're um We're going back to Australia in November for pretty much all of November. and I plan on spending every single day breakfast, lunch, and dinner just based around food. like I think that's what all of my holidays end up being. It's book where I'm going for dinner, book where I'm going for lunch, and all of that, find the food markets. And then yeah, if the Eiffel Tower is near, we'll go have a look. But it's some it's always structured around food. Do you find your holidays are like that? yeah definitely like i'll always pick like one one restaurant that's probably fine dining i said i go away a lot by myself i like to literally book a flight and i'll just disappear and so i always book like one restaurant that's maybe fine dining and i just start browsing i did it yeah it's just based around food isn't it and i always end up at a market or something like that not because i've personally go look at it it's like i'm drawn to it i just head that way i say i like that i'll see the sights and stuff like that but food just finding about the best food spots the hidden food spots
00:59:36
Speaker
locals and that's for all of Asia so much because I just feel comfortable there I feel if I went to South America I'd feel very much the same kind of disappearing to the streets I did Mexico last year fuck that was insane the food I bet it was the food is just yeah it's very high up on my bucket list I did 10 days I need to go back because it varies from region to region which is what I always love about a country and then yeah it's just so good and like then you come back and you're like oh I've never really had tacos ever like I've just never had them before like they do them they're so fresh how good it all is avocados there
01:00:18
Speaker
and It's always like that. oh yeah like you think You think you've eaten pizza before and then you go to Italy and you're like, okay, I've never eaten pizza. I've never had a real cacio pepper before, ever. And I think it's the same wherever I go. I mean, when I went to Japan, I thought I'd had sushi. I thought I'd had Japanese food, not even close. It's just, it's well-depart. Like what we do is still good, but it's it's just not the same. It's not the same. I need to go to Japan, that upsets me so much. I'd like to say in my life I've had very good sushi, but I can't really say that until I've gone to Japan and had it.
01:00:57
Speaker
it's all part of the experience as well. I think when you go and eat sushi or gyozo in Japan, it's you're sitting in this restaurant and I remember going into a gyozo bar and everyone was still smoking inside the bar. you know like They were all drinking sake and smoking their cigarettes and it was literally felt like an actual bar where they were just serving dumplings and it was just I don't know. It's something about being there and hearing them all speak in Japanese and, you know, ordering in the way that they order. It's the full experience. It's not just about what's going on. It's not, I said, just going to eat this whole experience. It's still what people create. And like I said, like, got places like The Alchemist now, Ultra Violet in Shanghai. It's not ever just about the food. It's about the whole experience. And it's amazing when you get them little places that just provide that because that's what it is. That's just the whole vibe of the place.
01:01:47
Speaker
I need to go. I was, oh my God, I was terrified when we went to the alchemist. I was absolutely terrified because they throw you in this room. You meet Rasmus and you're like, I'm going to have to cook for this guy at some point during this. Like, I don't want to do that. I'm not going to say it was because I've brought him forward. e It might be the staff food guy, to be honest. he worked He worked at the alchemist and um I can't remember if he was there when you guys were there or not. He's he's a really cool guy.
01:02:17
Speaker
But yeah, he told me about, it's an interesting place to work. There was one British guy, he was on the research and development team. Oh no, this guy was Indonesian, Dutch Indonesian. Okay. Maybe. I'm pretty sure there's like 40 odd chefs there, isn't there?
01:02:34
Speaker
Oh my god, it was intense. like And they're all so serious as well. It's just crazy. I remember I ended up doing a croquette out of a windpipe. Out of a pork windpipe. It's crazy to me. like I love it. ah love I love the idea of it. I'm not sure if I'd ever pay the money to go eat that. I don't know.
01:02:59
Speaker
it's ah It's a tough one, isn't it? It's a lot, especially if you do the wine pairings. it's like I think it's like 1,200 pounds or something like that. It's an experience. I see food as a hobby for me. So like people will spend X amount on certain things. I'll spend money on food, but that is a lot. Gareth Ward in this year is obviously quite expensive, but I wouldn't even bat an eyelid. i Just because I've watched him for so long, what he does to food the ingredients, I'd pay. yeah I still haven't been, and which really really upsets me, but I would pay.
01:03:27
Speaker
whatever to go eat his food so just and as alchemists like I really like the idea and what they do but again it doesn't scream at me as like that's the that's what I need to try initially it is like but it is I think it's a really cool thing what they do and how they do it but Nordic cuisine doesn't jump out at me too much like Noma alchemist is it doesn't appeal to me as much as other places. Just personal preference. It's very different. Yeah, it's just personal preference, I see. And that's what I like about food as well. It's all about opinions. No one's right. No one's wrong. No one's the best chef in the world. That's always gets better. I hate that.
01:04:04
Speaker
I think because I lived and worked in Stockholm for a year, I was a little bit more sort of open-minded to the sort of Scandi cuisine. But I think if you've never experienced it before, it is very, very different from anything. um So I can see how, and especially, I mean, the alchemist, which is different yeah anyway, um it's on a different level, but it is, it's very sort of interesting and different kind of flavours that don't necessarily pop to mind when you think of tasty food.
01:04:32
Speaker
No, ah that's it as well. But I said like, I reckon if I tried a bit of Nordic food or like the Scandinavia way and I tried a bit more, got used to it a bit more, then I'd be like, OK, that's why that would appeal to me. But I think because like Gariford used a lot of Asian cuisine and it's like, even though I'm Asian, like I love I love Asian cuisine, like all over Asia, how diverse it is. That's why it's always drawn to me, that kind of thing.
01:04:54
Speaker
yeah Yeah, he does some really cool things with it. I really want to be able to go find a day off at some point. ah evening ioled trip out there and it that That's kind of place it's in Wales like go down there for the day i have your meal or take like two days off turn your phone off that would be nice. I wouldn't turn my phone off because I'd be asking Gareth Ward for a photo and just taking pictures of his 30 dishes or whatever he does.
01:05:16
Speaker
You can take photos on flatmate. That's true.
01:05:21
Speaker
um i I read a thing um that you said that you like to think about your cuisine as fine dining treatment without tweezers. Where do you get all these quotes from? um I deep dive, don't worry. i't worry i't di Don't dive too far.
01:05:37
Speaker
and fine dining I wouldn't say like I use a lot of fine dining techniques like I think the thing I struggled with I struggled
Navigating Culinary Industry Challenges and Perceptions
01:05:45
Speaker
massively with the imposter syndrome anyway doesn't really help with I'd say the UK culinary scheme ski yeah theme is quite I wouldn't say arrogant but I think European cuisine in general is quite arrogant European hospitality industry is quite arrogant it's like they're the best Which I don't like and so obviously when I'm i in Singapore when I was Thailand Singapore like Thailand I worked in the print poll suck and David Thompson at NAM first ever tire Russians get a mission in style is ranked like number 20 something in the world at the time then
01:06:19
Speaker
Table 65, I was sous chef, we opened it, I got a Michelin star after nine, well not me, but the team got their Michelin star after nine months ah like of opening. like We did all this stuff, and obviously I built a reputation a bit in Asia. Come back to the UK, because I'd never worked really worked at anywhere in the UK, too notable or anything like that. No one knew who I was, and it's MasterChef, when that came out, it was very much like, who's he, where's he, where's he, he's a private lady. and that That kind of knocks your confidence a bit, but it's just,
01:06:49
Speaker
I don't know. Yeah, that's that's quite hard in terms of imposter syndrome. Sorry, what was the original question? i got no that's okay no I totally get the imposter syndrome thing. like I remember when I walked in there. I mean, I've worked in one one-star restaurant in my life. I've done a couple of stars and stuff like that. but I am by no means you know Michelin star trained we don't even have Michelin stars in Australia so yes we have we have hats that's our little system which is still very good but it's um it's this weird prestige that I see about Michelin star restaurants and almost I remember walking into MasterChef and having all of these people tell me all these Michelin star restaurants I've worked in and I was like what am I doing here? It's not like that's the focus they were having it like that's how you'd be the best but like
01:07:36
Speaker
Like I said, I'm not knocking Michelin in in any way, but I know people who have bought stars. They'll deny it to Kingdom Come. on know I know people who have spent a lot of money. I know someone, yeah. but it Like, yeah. Is that even a thing? They'll deny it. Everyone will deny it, but... Oh, yeah. Like, I've seen paperwork. Like, it's a certain thing. That's crazy. um Yeah, so like...
01:08:03
Speaker
Oh, that was it, Michelin twist on my food. So I've worked in all those places, but I kind of really enjoyed like, I just enjoyed, so Singapore said, I worked Michelin style places, places we've got to start, but then I would never eat in those places. I'd love to, I like eating in them, but like day to day, I'd eat in these hawker centers where obviously these families or people, don't get me wrong, that is hard work running a stand in Singapore for obviously you've got to do so much volume because it's so cheap.
01:08:30
Speaker
But watching these families like really care over the food. like like They'll only do one or two dishes and like the focus, like how they put you all together, that's what I loved. And it was never about you know putting like a dot on a plate or something like that. like But the techniques are still there. like you know They'll brine, they'll they'll do all stuff like that.
01:08:49
Speaker
but it's just a cool, like a coarse way of doing it, like a bit more rough around the edges. That makes the flavor is still there. And I don't know. And that's why I reckon so many like Michelin star chefs and stuff, when you especially when you speak to them, when they give the interviews, they'll have their good restaurants. They obviously they're top standard, but they'll always have these other ones that like, you can tell that it's rough around the edges.
01:09:10
Speaker
but they clearly do really good food. And that's what I kind of try and focus on. But obviously because I've got the part where I've done fine dining in the back of my head, I always try and make it look really pretty and really nice. But the truth is like, as long as it looks, it sounds bad. So it looks edible. I'm okay with it. But Instagram and stuff like that, now you need it to like, you know, the perfect swoosh, the perfect drop of sauce and stuff. But I just like the raw food. That's what I try and do. But I said like, it's so difficult to do because in Singapore they'll throw some rice, some duck sauce, it's splashed all over the plate, like an egg on the side and I just throw it in front of you. And I look at it outside, that's what I want. Someone does that too in the UK, they'll be like, what the fuck you do? Like. Yeah, I think Instagram's maybe destroyed us a little bit.
01:09:53
Speaker
so every yeah sorry that I've clearly been waiting to say that. It's just all these like cooking videos and stuff like, I think it's brilliant in terms of like educating people on cooking, but a lot of them aren't real. Like I've done these Instagram cooking videos, I've done pictures and stuff where you.
01:10:12
Speaker
sometimes the food's not edible because the way you picture it plate it like how it does because it's got to withstand the heat and like cameras sit there for ages so it's all fake in that sense people just steal each other recipes and then make a video and claim it as their own recipes um i haven't eaten today that's why i wouldn't probably go off in a rant Yeah, it's good and it's bad. People have a lot more access to everything but also now everyone, because they've watched a couple of Instagram videos and stuff like that, they think they're a chef and they just try and tear into you. If someone's got feedback to give, like people just think they're an expert at what they do because they've watched a few things. It's an insane way to look at it. When people come up to you,
01:10:55
Speaker
like obviously people aren't happy with the food or they've got a complaint or like you know just a bit of feedback that's fine like it's when people come up to you and speak to you like shit that i can't get my head around it like telling you are this is this this is this like i had it not too long ago i served a chicken sambal so my sambal sauce a sambal sauce is made with dry shrimp someone gave it back to me they're like i ordered chicken not prawns i was like yeah that's the poached chicken and they're like try it tastes like fish i was like sambar the bases dried shrimp garlic shallots you're gonna get and they just started going mental at me telling me i was wrong and everything i was like yeah and i was like i don't know what they did for a living because i got them to leave very quickly um whatever they did for a job imagine you walked up to someone in just a different industry and just started laying into them like ah that's what i can't get my head around and i think instagram is one of you so trip advisor another one
01:11:49
Speaker
f**k themselves. Tripvile is not good for anyone but Instagram is good in some ways but it can have a lot of negativity.
01:12:04
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. I think that there's a lot of armchair experts and I think even me personally, I fall into the trap. Like whenever I do videos or anything like that, I i always make sure if I do a recipe and it doesn't taste like what I say it's going to taste like, I won't put it up. um So it's very much like that. but even when i'm doing things like i've been doing some dessert boxes just because i want to have fun and i don't want to always just be doing tasting menus so i do these little australian dessert boxes that i do once a month and sell them to the public and sometimes i'll do it and i'm like it doesn't look perfect and vincent's like say it's not instagram life isn't instagram it doesn't need to look perfect it's food you should look natural
01:12:43
Speaker
You do. You have to kind of remind yourself of that. I think because we always, you know, we go on Instagram and we see these perfect dishes and sometimes you look at them and you're like, that doesn't doesn't look like you want to eat it. Like, yes, it looks like the perfect plating and the colors are perfect and everything, but I don't want to eat that. Yeah. ah No, it is that like it it doesn't look appetizing. Do you not always annoy me? It annoys me in a good way.
01:13:05
Speaker
The chef, Jean-Philippe from the Dorchester, Charlie's old head chef. um There's another Japanese guy who's got a plate called Hajimi. When people, like when they plate, they're so blasé about it all, but it looks so natural and perfect, I'm like, that's the kind of level I'd love to get to, but I don't know how they do it. Jean-Philippe, I'd never watch it forget watching him plate. This was during MasterChef.
01:13:30
Speaker
And he was just, it kind of looked so blase, but at the same time, it was just so perfect. And he plated it at the end. He gave you, and he's just like, how? Like the sauce looks so naturally poured, but like also perfect. That's a cool level to get to.
01:13:45
Speaker
that's That's the dream, isn't it? To make it look effortless and just, you know, make it look really relaxed, but then it comes out and they take their hands away from the plate and you're like, yeah how how did you do that? How did you get to that level where it is it looks natural, but it's also so pristine? That'd be a cool one. But I'd agree like Instagram's hard. ah like i need and I need one of your little Australian boxes. That sounds good.
01:14:05
Speaker
Uh, I mean, at the moment we're, cause our business is just the two of us. So, you know, we're like grinding and to do those dessert boxes, we might sell 50 dessert boxes and we deliver them personally. So we say at the moment within a 10 mile radius, um, cause you know, the delivery day, the prepping day, the packing it's, it's huge. It's great fun. And we get to have so much like direct contact with people. Um, ah but I wouldn't even know how to send them. I mean, maybe I could, maybe there's like a fridge DPT. I'll tell you would not today.
01:14:35
Speaker
Salsa, supper club, no literally. Yeah, they would actually. They know how do everything. They would. I should contact them. I need to do a supper club with them again. They were really fun. Have you been to their Wales place? Yeah, Tywin. His propaganda, yeah. is Tom Shepherd just announced he's going to be there actually. Is he going to be in Tywin? Yeah, two days. I can't remember. To be honest, I've just said that to him. I was like, that's probably worth booking because his restaurant his restaurant bookings have come out for December next year now.
01:15:04
Speaker
I know. So maybe Tom, that might be a good shout to go there and try and get a weekend. Speak to John and Beth. Yeah. I'm going to see if they're booked up already. Yeah. We could all go out and have a piss off. And Gariford's place is literally across the wharf.
01:15:23
Speaker
I know, I know we didn't even have time and like, as if we would have got a booking, but we realized when we were there, how close it was. can literally yeah everything more Did you have fun doing that? I loved it. Um, I liked Litchfield, but I liked the Taiwan supper club more small kitchen.
01:15:44
Speaker
That's what everybody says, but I feel like everyone must just spend their lives in massive kitchens. like We walked in there, because Tommy had done it just before us, and Tommy was putting the fear of God into us, and he was like, it's so small, like it's almost unworkable. I wouldn't go that far. There's a little shoebox, and then we got there, and I messaged Tommy, I'm like, you're such a princess. Fair.
01:16:08
Speaker
I'm actually doing Tommy next, just after you, so I'll have to pick a bone with him about that. But no, I found it very workable. I wouldn't say it's workable, I'd say it's small, but...
01:16:19
Speaker
Yeah, maybe. Maybe we've just been in lots of tiny kitchens. I feel lost when I'm in a big kitchen. I don't know what. Oh, yeah. I think I've been blessed with a few big kitchens. But I said, like, private chef and you adapt to small places. Where did I do it? The Pavilion Club in London. I've got to say, it was the Pavilion Club in London a couple of months ago. That was a ridiculous that is was literally a shoe box. Yeah. really Yeah, that was hard.
01:16:45
Speaker
actual shoe box. I think there was three of us in, but we couldn't move. Yeah. And we had to all stand in one place to open that oven door. There was like, I don't know how they got you all in there. Unfortunately, but yeah, that was hard. like Yeah. And maybe that's a little bit too small. Yeah. Plating, you had to get a big thing, fold it over. So then you lose half the kitchen to play off that and the doors there. So you can't leave the kitchen when you play it. in Oh my God. 40 people, five courses. Yeah.
01:17:14
Speaker
Wow. That sounds fun. Oh, it was
Culinary Culture: Street Food, Fish and Chips, and Beyond
01:17:20
Speaker
before we wrap up. I've got one bone. to fuck with yeahp what and Another thing. Another thing I read doing. where You probably don't even remember you said it. Maybe you do. Um, it's, I think they asked you what you thought the most overrated food was. And you said loaded fries.
01:17:41
Speaker
yeah i bloody love loaded fries no it was okay it why it was the way they asked me so bear in mind i'm quite an emotional person i go up and down as you can probably tell throughout this whole podcast um it's not that no yeah they they're overrated my issue with them was the fact that it's the street food thing so obviously street food is very important to me and i just feel um street food in the UK just isn't the one. We don't really have street food in the UK in terms of a culture, not in terms, I said, I can shout how good the chefs that do street food, it's nothing to do with that. It's more the fact we can't make it accessible and affordable because the prices of trade, income, government, taxes, everything, basically I blame the government for that everything um and I will always shout that out, I hate them.
01:18:32
Speaker
Um, so they've destroyed the possibility of ever getting like proper street food because the whole point of street food is like, it's for the people. It's accessible for the people. Like you can do really cheap and people can still make a living off of that. That will never happen in the UK because of government. I've learned that since whenever you quote me, but the end of the issue in the UK was that people charge like 12, 14 quid for loaded fries, man. It's chips with a bit of topping on it. And like, you'd be lucky if they made the toppings themselves. It's.
01:18:58
Speaker
Nah, I just can't get on board like if I'm saying this or not you give me like two months I'll probably have it on my menu because I know it sells. I know they sell. I just think they're overrated i If you go to Australia, you have to try like loaded fries in Melbourne, Australia, because it's very different. When you say it costs 12 pounds here, I do the conversion of that. And that to me is like 22 pounds, uh, $22 in Australia, which is outrageous. You would never pay $22 for loaded fries, but go, go there. They do like.
01:19:30
Speaker
24 hour smoked brisket that they put on top of the fries with their own like nacho cheese sauce and mate like I don't know if it's still there I can't even remember what they were called but I know it'd be good you have to but I just think it's overrated and that was more to do wasn't me saying that one dish is overrated it's more the street foods in the UK is based around stuff like that. And you still can't get it that cheap anyway. But yeah, yeah I don't, like yeah yeah I don't have an issue with loaded fries. Like I said, like but you can keep thinking you'll probably find like a picture of me drunk eating loaded fries. so right Yeah, I do. Yeah, no, it's more
01:20:08
Speaker
the idea of serving them. But then I see, I said that, and since I would have gave that quote, there's a street food trader called Disco Fries. And I've traded alongside, so careful what I say. But, do you know what I rated about him? He does street food. He said, we do huge numbers. He hand cuts his fries. And I was like, yeah, okay. Then you can have my money. Like I've then, okay. So that changed the game a bit for me. I'll be honest with that. Yeah, hand cut some more. It's like fucking hell.
01:20:34
Speaker
They sound good. Yeah, they're good. This, go for it. I'm going to have to come to Birmingham. That's it. I'll find out where he is next. But yeah, like, so, okay. Yeah. That was, I say things with a lot of emotion at times and. I'm just picking on you. Cause I, I am very hush much in love with good loaded fries. yeah Yeah. I saw that and I was like, there's no way I'm not going to bring that up. It's not really loaded fries. You ever had like chicken kebab meat and Donna meat and chips, like mixed kebab and chips. That's like my ideal loaded fries. so That's good. That yeah you can't get that anywhere else. What you've used on fish and chips in Australia?
01:21:10
Speaker
um It's not like what you guys think here. Like we maybe would have them once a month. is thing like New Zealand. New Zealand. They were like pretty good. I used to live in New Zealand and they were pretty big like fish and chips like that thing. But you admit that it's not better than the UK though.
01:21:29
Speaker
No, I don't think so. I think that our fish and chips, we've got a lot of crappy fish and chips stores where it's like store bought, you know, frozen haddock. Yeah. Like the stuff, you know, like the frozen fish that you buy in the supermarket in the box. It quite often looks a little bit like that. yeah So I'm not really that into it. Whereas here, like I love where you can see them flowering and battering the fish. And I've had some amazing fish and chips. Yeah. I don't know. um so it's it's a lot better it's yeahs a lot better i don't think i had it in new zealand that's the closest thing to street food i'd say in terms of like traditional british street food she chip shops fish and chip ban yeah bloody love it you're making me want it for lunch now
01:22:15
Speaker
Um, I'm trying to start a tradition on this podcast. Um, that at the end of the episode, I ask an annoying question, which I know everybody hates, but you know, take your time to answer it. Is there one thing that you wish that the general public knew about our industry? Is it like, even if it's like a myth that you think that people have about the industry or just something that you're like, God, I wish that your average Joe Blue knew that.
01:22:40
Speaker
It's difficult to say it's been repeated so many times, but I'd say like the amount of hours, work and effort that goes into say like one plate of food. I really wish that just be more willing to accept that and it's not always time you're paying for value. it so It's always about value, not time.
01:22:58
Speaker
so when people say oh this is too expensive don't get me wrong some restaurants do charge quite a bit and overprice things but a lot of times it's not things are expensive now so i just wish they knew how much went into certain things and like whether it is just a cup of tea like and ah they're kicking off because they are You know, you charge me £3.50, £4 for a cup of tea, but at the end of the day, like, le electricity, weight and stuff, washing, tea, but it's not just about a cup of tea. I wish people were just a bit more accepting of the whole experience of what they're being provided. And instead of being so quick to jump to the conclusion, you're ripping us off. Yeah, I wish they understood that part a bit more. Some people do, some people are so appreciative, like, some people, one bloke came up to me the other day,
01:23:41
Speaker
And I offered, he asked for like a half, half chicken and prawns kind of thing. I was like, oh yeah, like don't worry. I'll just charge you that half portion. He was like, nah, I know what you do. I know how hard you work. I'm paying full price. I'm a business owner myself. I get it. I was like, that's really nice. So I wish few more people said like, there's no one thing that I'm like, ah, I wish they knew that like, cause there's so many things. Big one is like that just a bit more.
01:24:05
Speaker
understanding not everyone some people says some people really are but just a bit more understanding like of how much goes into it and it's not just work like people throw away their social lives their family lives to put good food on the plate and it'd be nice to appreciate but obviously you just get the response now as well they should look after themselves better but unless you're in the industry you don't understand why you do it the passion behind it the driving force so it's really difficult so people are a bit more understanding but i think that applies in all walks of life That's a good one. I like that. I was um reading up on another chef that I'm trying to get to come on the podcast, but he won't. He's too nervous. auto I don't want to shout him out because then he's going to feel obliged to, but I will because I really like him. It's Joshua Jones from number eight restaurant. Really nice guy. I'm still pushing, but I was doing a little bit of research on him and I saw ah an article that someone did on him and it was an article online where they could comment afterwards. And there was this one guy that commented and he said,
01:25:02
Speaker
I don't understand. They pay for the product. the The dish shouldn't cost more than what the product costs. like Once you've paid for the product to make it, that's it. Where did the rest of the cost come from? and i just it I wanted to comment, it wouldn't let me without subscribing, but I wanted to be like man hours, rent, taxes,
01:25:22
Speaker
crockery you know everything it's not just the price of the product like that you might have paid 12 pounds for that piece of protein and to buy it then you might have taken 12 hours to prep it what if that spent 12 hours in the oven cooking like that's all energy and i couldn't and i was raging about it for like three days yeah i get it you're gonna set me off now because that's the so especially like people need to understand they're buying you okay so if you needed to get a lawyer for instance you can get one for a cheaper price because they've got less experience or you can get a better lawyer who will cost like say £500 per hour instead of £100 per hour because of what you're paying for and the same applies if you go to like a very good restaurant or something like that you've got to bear in mind you're paying for the chef's experience as well so if you want a very very high-end good chef and they're on X amount of salary that has to be covered some way so but people don't see it like as a one-off meal like and this is what I try and to explain to people as well it's like find a private dining sometimes I can charge a hell of a lot for
01:26:20
Speaker
And people are like, oh, that's so expensive for a meal. I was like, yeah, but okay. For me to get into this position where I can cook this food, this menu, a lot I used to like, I used to sleep, sleep on beaches, live in hostels, just so I could work at these different places. I was like, I went through that. You're basically paying me back for that now. You're paying for my experience as well, which is people miss out, which sounds like mean to say, but it's true. You do it in any other industry, I said, whether it's lawyers or like a doctor, like a private doctor, you go for a private doctor,
01:26:48
Speaker
at the top of his game is going to cost you more same as you go to a restaurant with a very good chef it's going to cost you more than if you go to uh not somewhere with a bad chef somewhere with like less experienced chefs yeah yeah and it's your time yeah you're paying for the experience people just so i think it's because people need to eat and the people that cook at home just as part of day-to-day life maybe that's why they don't show as much respect maybe yeah i don't know i just i just i mean that i wanted to be like if you pay for any building work does that mean you only expect to pay for the yeah oh that's a great one off a huge tan you nailed it with that yeah honestly i remember thinking that i was like if you want a fence built do you think you just pay for the wood
01:27:31
Speaker
Oh mate, I'm going to get started again so I'm yeah going to sleep. No, I don't want to wake you up. Well, thank you so much for coming on here. It was so really cool to meet you and to hear all of your experiences and thank you for sharing
Conclusion and Future Culinary Adventures
01:27:44
Speaker
all of them. I think this has been a really interesting time. Yeah, no, thanks for having me on. I really appreciate it. Sorry, I do ramble at times. and um all over I love it. I'm very chaotic. But yeah, no, thank you. I really enjoyed it. And yeah, I'll pop lamb to Bristol soon or come to Birmingham. We'll try and find disco fries for you.
01:27:58
Speaker
Oh my God. Yes. Let's do that. Let's do that. I might see you at Tom Shepherd's. sub oh yeah target oh what's wrong that forget that but ah I'll try and convince Vincent to let us have a weekend off. Thank you very much.