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#7 Hylton Espey - Is Tripadvisor a chefs worst nightmare?
59 Plays4 months ago
On todays episode, we have the absolute pleasure of talking to Hylton.
Hylton is a South African born chef, that has made a name for himself in the picturesque town of Falmouth. After running the Merchants Manor hotel, Hylton took the plunge in opening his own space. His restaurant Culture, has earned the amazing accolade of the Green Michelin star. Hylton shares with us his natural love and passion for foraging, the experience of getting the green star, and his views on Tripadvisor, how it affects not just the restaurant, but the humans who work behind the scene.
Please enjoy, Hylton Espey!
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Transcript
Introduction to Hilton Espy and Culture Restaurant
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome, welcome back to the Check On podcast and on today's check there is no pun intended when I say this chef is making waves in the Cornish cooking scene. Hilton Espy is a South African born chef that has put down roots in Falmouth and opened up his own restaurant called Culture. Hilton quickly earned a Green Michelin star after opening and today he talks about his ethos on foraging, why his restaurant is different and how he navigates the tricky world of TripAdvisor reviews. So please enjoy Hilton SP.
00:00:42
Speaker
And we are recording. Hello Hilton, how are you going? Hi, is it Cassie or Cassaire? Cassay. It trips the road up, don't worry. Thank you. It's actually you named after a river in Africa, so not South Africa, but from Africa. So it's from your neck of the woods, ish. Probably north. Yeah, it runs up the Congo or something like like that. I should really probably know that. So you're in Falmouth at the moment. what's it What's it like there? Is it as miserable as it is here?
00:01:12
Speaker
It became miserable. It wasn't too bad earlier. The sun was out. We went foraging for some blackberries and the weather was actually quite nice.
Foraging and Local Ingredients: Challenges and Opportunities
00:01:20
Speaker
I walked into work. I said, I'll be walking back home and now it's all mizzly and I can't really see the harbor anymore, but it's okay.
00:01:27
Speaker
What are the blackberries like there at the moment? Ours are really sort of plumping over ripe with all the rain, I think. Yeah, they're getting there. I think where we went, on each side of the road, it was kind of different. um So some of them were getting that really soft, sort of like mold moldy look. And then there were still quite a few red ones, even still one or two blossoms, which is always weird. um But we found a decent stash, so we'll go back and get more the rest of the week. And then that's probably it for the season, I reckon, with this weather.
00:01:53
Speaker
It's a bit sad. I always like it when I see the blackberries coming out. I guess that kind of brings us directly into what you're doing. So your restaurant is this beautiful restaurant tucked away on the harbour of Falmouth, which me and my partner, we lived there for two years when we first moved to England. And you sort of have built this real ethos around your restaurant about nose to tail and foraging and everything like that. I guess you're kind of in a prime spot for things like that.
00:02:20
Speaker
Yeah, we are. We're really lucky. you know We only have to walk from the restaurants in any direction. If I walk about probably about 15, 20 minutes, then I'm in sort of farmland or on the coast or whatever, so along the coastal path. in thats We've got plenty of options on on what we can get. and If I walk home, it's 20 minutes, and if it's low tide, I can go along the rocks. um And we counted that we can get up to 22 different items just on that loop, um so along the rocks, and then back over through the woods, which is pretty cool.
00:02:54
Speaker
And then obviously those things we go and get from further away as well. But it's just really nice to see all of these different things popping up and how they relate to each other through the seasons and that, you know. So I say to my wife today, we want to use a bit of nettle with the bramble because the bramble and nettle have this sort of like,
00:03:13
Speaker
ones winning and the ones losing at different times of the year. um So at the moment the Bramble is going to obviously is going to bury and then the Bramble dies away and then the nettle suddenly appears and takes over and then the Bramble kind of strangled the nettle art next season. So it's quite a fun play with the two of them. um I got zapped by nettle getting blackberries today so it always reminds you and what you're about. um but very much yeah what we What we like to do especially with the foraging is we like to go and forage everything ourselves because We're not using the forest items because they are a cool thing to use and in fashion or whatever and whatever. We're using them because that's exactly what's available right now, right here on ah on our doorstep. And when you go out, you can start seeing signs of other things popping up. You know, the first penny of water the season's coming up, which is really early, which is very strange because it doesn't like, not that we had a whole lot of sun, but it doesn't like sun at all. um So normally that's something we'll use through the winter.
00:04:10
Speaker
um So that's popped up now. Obviously get the last of the blackberries, which is cool. And then see the see the nettle. I saw the first Alexander sprouting, so that's always exciting to get that. um Because I like using it when it's quite young. Which is, it's nice because we get these awesome things to forage for, but it also means obviously a change in the in the weather. um But the big focus in in what we do is we can't trust the seasons the way they used to be. You know, we wouldn't be thinking we'd be foraging them.
00:04:36
Speaker
now particularly because I normally tie in the blackberry foraging when the oyster season, the oyster season only starts in October but that was two years ago, three years ago that I did that dish which was blackberries and oysters and this year the blackberries are ready now but the oysters are you know but would like three weeks off.
00:04:52
Speaker
um So you can't really rely rely on the seasons like that old map you learned when you were a kid. um Everything's kind of just moved around. And we move with the with the weather in that way, you know. um I went to the fishmonger today, who's new. You open after you guys left Pusk Fish in the Maritime Museum.
00:05:09
Speaker
and just kind of walked in there and saw what he had. And I was like, okay, fine. He's got a nice line called Seabass. So I'll get that for tomorrow. um So that's now, um I'm just giving you a light age overnight. So it's just, it's just trying us. But we just kind of, yeah, we move with what's available. We don't have any strict, I don't sit and plan the menu, like, oh, I'm going to do turbid next week. I'll kind of see what happens next week. And then we'll decide from there. We've got some tomatoes. We're doing fish with the tomatoes at the moment and yeah, things like that.
00:05:38
Speaker
That's sort of a really fun way to kind of play around with that. I think sometimes as chefs, we get a little bit too complacent for, you know, Googling what's since ease in season right now. And, you know, it says Blackberries are in season. So we go for it, but
Food Philosophy: Educating Children and Engaging Diners
00:05:50
Speaker
we don't necessarily go out and have a look and be like, well, are they actually still in season right now? Or have they just been in the fridge for the last couple of weeks? Like we, we get a little bit too much planning in our head going on and we yeah don't let ourselves be free enough.
00:06:05
Speaker
Yeah, I think so. and i think we Because we're so used to planning menus a season ahead. Like, oh, cool, we're doing the spring menu now. What are we going to do for autumn? Oh, I really want to do this. And okay, some things are guaranteed, you know, you can get...
00:06:18
Speaker
pheasants from a shooter or something like that that's that's almost guaranteed but other things are just really hard or you end up being forced into a corner where you need to order something from much further away than you planned even though you're trying to do some things or with fish for example if you're like okay well I'm gonna put but mackerel on the menu and then two weeks into the menu the fishmonger is like sorry I've only got frozen so what do you do you tell the guests like oh I don't have anything or you're forced to use the frozen mackerel um So that's why we decided to do it this way where the menu doesn't it doesn't um tell you what you're having. It just gives you an idea of of what the course entails um and then we just work around it because it's just easier to to control.
00:06:59
Speaker
And it's worked out really nicely. you know We decided to do it, see how it goes. I was kind of doing a similar thing at the hotel i around before. But being a hotel, people demand certain things.
Culinary Journey and Local Collaborations
00:07:11
Speaker
So there were certain things we have to have on. You know you have to have your soup on and whatever, like that kind of thing. Whereas we're kind of free to do whatever we want. you know I can have a ah soup course on or...
00:07:23
Speaker
i going to see I can pretty much do whatever I want. I think the way we structure the menu with the tasting menu is I'm not... creating dishes I'm trying to sell. You're already sold because you decided to eat here. I'm creating dishes that I like to have and I think it's a really fun way to represent the ingredients and then you you don't know what you're getting and you're forced to have it. um So sometimes guests will be will have something which they wouldn't normally order. um you know we get nothing like We do an egg course, for example, and some guests don't like eggs.
00:07:53
Speaker
But then, well, that's unfortunate, then you either don't eat it or you try it, and then that's it. Sometimes they let us know beforehand, and we try and make a supplement. But on the night, we generally just, well, that's what we can do. Yeah. And we're not doing it to, I don't know, to be mean, we kind of just do because it's a good dish, we stand behind it, you know, it's good stuff. So yeah.
00:08:22
Speaker
That's a huge freedom to be able to have, though, isn't it? like It's and something that should i almost be a norm, I guess, like having people work more fluidly with the seasons. and like I personally wouldn't be upset if I looked at a restaurant menu a week before and then got there and they said, oh, sorry, the fishermen couldn't go out, so they couldn't catch any mackerel. But instead, we've replaced it with this. like That wouldn't bother me at all. But I find sometimes a lot of guests can be a bit stuck like this. you know They'll say, I looked at the menu two weeks ago, and it said that there was going to be a mackerel on there.
00:08:51
Speaker
um Yeah, now there's not and you know, I was just I was just speaking to Jack wing um from wings of St. Mores the other day and he said that You know, people don't realize that fishermen lose their lives by going out and doing this. And if my fishermen tell me that the weather's bad and sorry, I'm not going out, I'm not going to force you to go out. I think that was a real kind of eye opener for me, you know, like it's something that we kind of know, I guess, but we sometimes get a bit too singular focused and we're like, no, but I ordered mackerel. I've got mackerel on the menu. There must be mackerel on the menu. yeah And it's like.
00:09:22
Speaker
um sorry but sound good what and they And the fishermen need a break. They take Christmas off. you know over Over the week of Christmas christmas and Twixmas, everyone's using frozen or preserved fish because the fishermen would take Christmas off. And it's not the end of the world. They're allowed to do that. They're allowed to have a break.
00:09:41
Speaker
um yeah know I remember, as again, at the hotel, we had a guest who came in and said, ah what do you mean you don't have any acorn today? I ate at a certain famous corner chef's fish restaurant, and he had fresh egg. And we were like, well, it wasn't fresh. We just decided not to do it.
00:10:01
Speaker
Yeah, no it's a tough one to work around but um I think definitely for us like since we've stepped away from the whole restaurant side of it and we've been doing supper clubs and private dining it's a lot easier for us to communicate with the guests if they want a menu well in advance we say absolutely we can give you an idea of what we'll be doing but you know just because this is possibly going to be in season it might not be at its best on the date will we're going to do your dinner so there needs to be a little bit of flexibility for change and We haven't had any pushback on that. Everyone's been very accepting of that. And, you know, there's always an alternative. There's always a substitute. There's always something else that's good around in the moment. But um no, I think having that kind of flexibility to move with it is ah a big luxury that hopefully eventually will turn into the norm for a lot of restaurants. Yeah, no, I think so. And I think especially being a being a father, there's a lot of children who aren't they're allowed to be fussy.
00:10:58
Speaker
And being allowed to be fussy as a child means you're just going to carry on being fussy as an adult. And there's definitely a serious, yeah, there's a serious fussiness happening. um You know, we quite we we're really going to be strict with our kids. So we we um use the word force, but we pretty much force them to eat things. And they eat most things, which is fine. um They send things as a kid that I didn't like, which is which is good. You know, until I had cream spinach, I hated spinach. And I had cream spinach. I was like, this is the best stuff ever.
00:11:26
Speaker
um but ah But, you know, chef's kids are a little bit different to other kids anyway, but I think it definitely stems from that. And then also meeting people who used to hate tomatoes or avocado or mushrooms or something, and then you touch them why, and you realize, well, it's this texture or that texture or something like that. I once had a student chef who worked with me, and she didn't like fish, and then we chatted about it, and it turns out that ah her brother used to give her water from the fish tank.
00:11:54
Speaker
um
00:11:56
Speaker
well that's why That's why you don't like fish. Yeah, right? Four things. She's traumatized. Yeah, traumatized for life. Did you get her to eat fish? Yeah, she did eventually, but actually. Yeah, it was good. I set this up to be on my iPad and I'm using my phone, so I'm quickly going to just get a charger.
00:12:16
Speaker
I'll pause it. Okay. And we're back. Charge is in. Yeah. So you you started off in South Africa. I mean, you obviously grew up and lived in South Africa. You started your cooking career in South Africa as well. Yeah. um I grew up in the southern suburbs of Cape Town. So a little suburb called St. James.
00:12:36
Speaker
which is next to a fishing harbor called Corpe. And um there was a restaurant in Corpe. It opened in, I don't know, like 1997, I think, called Olympia Cafe. And we used to go there all the time. And then I went to university to study winemaking. And I did one year at university and then I was like, you know what, I actually
Global Food Sourcing and Market Adaptability
00:13:00
Speaker
think I want to be a chef, which was my first choice anyway.
00:13:03
Speaker
and um went and asked to own a cabinet that I could get a job you know for six months before I go to culinary school. um And he said, Nicole, you know, you start at seven o'clock tomorrow morning, go and buy a kitchen confidential, read it, and I'll see you in the morning. And that's pretty much how my ah my career started. So working at this daily South African season, in you know, it's Southern Hemisphere, so our season really kicks off ah December and then runs all the way through to sort of February, March.
00:13:31
Speaker
And I started there on the, I think it was like the 10th of December. So I was straight into it. My job for two weeks was just cracking eggs for breakfast. The place was well known for, it was well known for, for breakfast. They did this really cool omelets. And I think we used to go through like, what was it? Like 24 trays of eggs on a satellite. So yeah, it was good. It was a good introduction. It was pretty bad. We had, we had three chefs just making omelets and scrambled eggs. That was it.
00:14:02
Speaker
wow yeah and it's a small place did you have um they used to well people used to move through quite quickly but it couldn't have been more than like 30 seats i think yeah um but it was just like you know if people start coming in for breakfast at like 7 30 and you just didn't stop until 11 and then you'd the cool thing about it is you'd only write it was it was like the original chalkboard menu so you'd only write the menu when you came into work that morning sword was there I started my shift at 6.30. I then built the deli sandwiches and then at 7 o'clock, the other chef would rock up. We would then plan the breakfast menu and then pretty much 7.30 someone would come and have scrambled eggs or something. So, I mean, we knew we had bacon and things like that, but it was just really, it was really fun. was It was a cool way to do it. And then during breakfast service, the chefs, one of the chefs would step away and then plan what we were doing for lunch.
00:14:55
Speaker
um So it was very cool. We did like like a fresh tuna niswas. So we got these really awesome like um freshly-caught tuna steaks. And then we made niswas salads with anchovies and olives, soft-boiled egg. And then the sauces and aioli. But the aioli we made had like avocado and wasabi through it and stuff like that. It was like really was really fun. So it was a proper old-school chunk of tuna. I think that that portion of tuna will be like I don't know like a third now, a third of that. It was gigantic and it was just really cool and the way we did it was like it was a deli but you put the aioli on the tuna and then the half the egg and then crossed the anchovies over and stuff was just, it was really good. It was like an elevated deli really um and I learnt a lot. I've never worked anywhere where someone took you by the hand and went through all the stages of cooking a piece of fish.
00:15:47
Speaker
We used to buy the fish in a hole, so in between like the breakfast orders and stuff, you'd be like filleting sort of yellowtail, I think. um What is that? I think it's a, is it a kingfish in Australia? It's got the yellowtail. It's probably a blue, yeah. So we called it yellowtail, things like that. It was just, I miss those fish now, but it was really cool. So when we go back in a few weeks, I'm definitely going there. Cause I haven't been back for, well, not since we moved yet, at least not to that restaurant. So it'll be really cool. um But yeah, it was really good.
00:16:17
Speaker
And then went from there to culinary school in Stellenbosch. So went to the ICA, which is the Institute of Culinary Arts. So we're actually going there. We're going to talk to the students now when we go back as well, because we haven't been back there, which is really fun.
00:16:31
Speaker
It was a proper two year course, you did six months hot kitchen, six months pastry and then you did a year of doing culinary placements at different restaurants. That's really cool. Yeah you did one six month placement and then you did two like two and a bit month placements I think um and they kind of um they profiled you to a restaurant. So they wouldn't send just everybody to every restaurant. So there was a certain list of restaurants that everyone aspired to go to. um And some of them were really were really tough and had a reputation as it used to be. And then if you survived your whole placement, it was like, kudos. You're like, yeah, cool, I did it. So I ended up going to some tough restaurant establishments, but they were good. I learned a lot when I was there.
00:17:21
Speaker
um Yeah, and then graduated. I met my wife at Chef School, so Chef Petronella. So we met
Sustainability Practices in Cooking
00:17:30
Speaker
there. And then I went from there to and worked at a really cool restaurant called Ginger in Cape Town, which is no longer Iran, but we did some really cool stuff at the time. It was just looking back at it, it's really funny to think what cutting edge was then. ah You know, like some of the dishes we were doing are really sort of out there. Like we did a a lamb shank course. And the lamb shank was pretty traditional, you know, it was Italian style, braised, red wine, tomato herbs, things like that. But then when it was finished, we used to take the bone out, cut the bottom of the bone off, and then the jus was served in a champagne flute with a bone in it. And I was just amazed that no bones actually broke the glasses in that time. yeah it' the weirdest and Why choose a champagne flute? It was just the weirdest choice.
00:18:19
Speaker
um But at the time, everyone was like, oh, wow, this is so cool. And and and the restaurant did really well, like in South Africa did won loads of awards and stuff. And we were, it was a really cool group of us who worked there. I'm still in touch with all of those guys, we'll check the parties and sous chefs and stuff was really good. um Yeah, and then worked well. So then we went to Colorado. So we went to Aspen for two years.
00:18:45
Speaker
Got into America as a ski lift operator. Never seen snow in my life. And became a lead ski operator, which is really cool because I've only worked four days a week and we got paid more than everyone else. Nice. And we had a great time. And then eventually, I think after a month or two, we had jobs at night working at ah at a golf club, which was linked to the the ski resort. And then
Impact of Receiving a Green Michelin Star
00:19:10
Speaker
After that first winter, we then went to the kitchen full time. We stayed at the Gulf Estates. And then, yeah, I worked all the sections, pitchfork, pastry, and and cold larder. Her section was mad. She was doing all the desserts, all the salads for the bar, and doing all the desserts and all the cold starters for the restaurant. Jesus. So I'd be doing like 110 covers, and she'd be doing like 180 covers every day. Yeah.
00:19:39
Speaker
ah And it was good, I think, because she was on the other side of the kitchen, so we never actually worked together. We didn't rely on each other, which I think helped with our relationship. ah Yes, for sure. It's very different, isn't it? Vincent and I met in the kitchen as well, but we were in very separate parts of the kitchen. So I think that was sort of the only reason when we first met that we were like, OK, this is all right, because, you know, you're not in my face. I'm not in your face. We're not going to really beat each other up. here Yeah, I mean, we I'm sure it's the same with you guys. We work very well together. But I think if I was on source and she was on garnish,
00:20:10
Speaker
It got pretty heated in that kitchen at times. It was proper like it was it was classic it was proper line cook. The kitchen would ran as one long section and had those long chopping boards in the deep end regions. and There was the chef in the corner, he was from El Salvador. and he um He did all the burgers and all the kids food. It was the worst section because the burger section and the wings and he did all the fries for us and all that stuff. And I worked sorta cooked all the fish and pastas and that. And then I moved to grill. Um, but in the off season, I had to work the, um, the kiddie section and I hated it. It was the worst. It was like quesadillas and, and like macaroni and cheese. And it was just, I was just really hard. yeah But we learned a lot, you know, he learns how to juggle a lot of prep. I mean,
00:20:54
Speaker
We had like, I don't know, four or five bags of mashed potatoes as your backup. And my backup tray of like fillet portions was like 30 portions of fillet. That was backup tray. I can't remember what I had set up for the night, but yeah, we were cooking a lot. It was a lot of covers. But yeah, we had a blast. It was really cool.
00:21:16
Speaker
We got to the next winter. We're still in the kitchen. We only started work at three in the afternoon. The ski resort, the lift stopped at 3.30, so we could go snowboarding until about quarter to three, and we'd get on the bus and go straight to work with all of our snow gear and everything. It was it was really fun. We had a lot of fun doing that. um Food-wise, the food was good. It was very kind of old school. We had a new exec sous chef that came in, and we started to do more farm to table. We had a farm we would drive.
00:21:46
Speaker
He'd drive his truck from the other side of Colorado from a place called Peonia, which is right when the Rockies start dropping down to like Utah in the desert. And he'd run his truck on the biodiesel he would get from restaurants, old oil. So he was making his own biodiesel. And he would drop off like really cool asparagus and cherries and he had his own orchard. And we went on a trip with the, I don't know how we did it, but the whole restaurant went, all the chefs went and one waiter. And we came to his cherry orchard and toured the area and stuff. was That was really fun. That was a really cool connection um that we had with the with the farm. And then, yeah, went back to South Africa and dotted around, worked a little bit in Johannesburg, a little bit in Cape Town, ran a wine estate restaurant for a bit. And then we had Itchy Feast after living overseas. And South Africa is great. um And we love it, and we love going back there. But we, after getting a taste of living somewhere, really,
00:22:45
Speaker
safe and secure and with a real outdoor lifestyle we we wanted to go travel again um and then a job opportunity came up in Falmouth and we're already on our way to the UK anyway but I thought I was going to agency chef in London or or something for a bit but luckily was offered a job yeah so I ran a hotel in town for six years so I came straight from Cape City to Falmouth and yeah we haven't left that was like almost nine years ago. Wow, you haven't got itchy feet since?
00:23:14
Speaker
No, it's, um okay, well, when you have a summer like we've had, then you do. But luckily we get out, we get to go traveling a bit. We, as a restaurant, we try to have a break just before the summer starts, so we take a break in May, um because even if you don't go anywhere, the weather's normally all right, but we can at least go travel to Europe for a week or go somewhere. And then directly after the summer, we have a bit of a break as well, which is really nice for all of us. Instead of waiting for it to get really miserable to take time off,
00:23:44
Speaker
Nice. That's really good. But no, we live in a beautiful place. Farmer's a great farm because there's a lot of people who live here year round. We're at the university. We've got a couple of schools. There's a lot of industry, especially naval industry. We've got a super yachts company pandanus. So they permanently have super yachts in and yacht crews and things like that, which is really cool. And then a couple of other bigger businesses around. We've got some really good um
00:24:15
Speaker
local distilleries and breweries and things like that. So those guys all produce all of their products. Yeah. So, which is great for us to stock them better. So it it brings, it brings people to, uh, to the area, which is really nice. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like you're in a really unique area where you have a lot of things that are being made there and a lot of things that you can source just from around that little area. It's one thing I definitely noticed about Falmouth is, you know, like we went up the road not that far and there was a lady doing cultivated mushrooms and There's a couple of like beef farms and lamb farms where you can get it directly from there almost. And like you were talking about the foraging and it's all very much like its own little microclimate where you can get things just from very close to you. Yeah. I mean, i'll all of our crockery was made by one putter by Sam and Sam's studio was like, I don't know, it's like 80 meters down the road on the third floor, all of our plates were made 80 meters from the restaurant and then he carried them. Yeah.
00:25:14
Speaker
um and all of that kind of stuff. And we, what was it last week? I needed onions, and I sent Pasha a message on Instagram, because that's how we do our orders. so And said, oh i'm not I'm not there, but you can just go pick your own. So I just drove to Pasha's farm, which is like 10 minutes away. I went and harvested my own onions, took the kids with as well, which was really fun, um which they really enjoyed. I mean, they're quite connected to where food comes from anyway, but it's always nice to take them now that they're a bit older to to really check it out.
00:25:42
Speaker
And then again, it's a great part of the story when we're serving the dishes and we say, oh, mike and my children and I harvested these onions like this week, which is which is really fun. The hardest part of about getting vegetables like that is all the cleaning and prep you need to do because the stuff will arise with the roots and the dirt and you've got to trim through all of it. you know but That said, it's never been exposed to any fake climate, so it just lasts for ages. It hasn't been in a container with CO2 and then suddenly it's breathing oxygen and it dies, which is how most herbs and everything arrive.
00:26:16
Speaker
but um It's a really cool place and we're meeting more and more producers and the producers are really happy to work with other guys and they're fascinated with what the other guys are doing and they're facing similar challenges and they're trying to get around the challenges in different ways and things like that. you know So that's really fun and a lot of them are, everyone grows beetroot and sweet and carrots because that's I don't want to say easy because it takes away from their work, but those are consistent crops. um But then Pash is the only one growing onions. And then Lawrence is the only one I know of doing a nice selection of tomatoes. Fay is the only one doing the really cool mushrooms and things like that in there. But all of them will have something else you know in between that, which is really nice. So I do like that. and And the other thing is we know their names. It's not just, it's not a company.
00:27:05
Speaker
um You know, we refer to them by name or by farm name and things like that, which is really hard because all the farms are TR names. So it's Trafranc and Trigallus and Tranoth and you know, you get really, you get really tongue tight during the, during the meal.
00:27:22
Speaker
um But it's yeah, it's a really cool place. And and for me, when I moved to Falmouth, there was a bit of a ah blank spot in the culinary scene. um you know there was There was hotels that were trying to trying to push, and that all of them had their two rosettes, and that's what they and that's what they were striving for, is to get their their two or their three.
00:27:42
Speaker
um And there was only one decent restaurant on the on the high street, so it was like a fine dining restaurant. That's since closed. But now Falmouth's got a bit of a resurgence, which is really nice. So lots of independent places. There's independent bagel shops, you know baking their own bagels and making their own salt beef and things, which is really cool. So it's like a real taste of of New York, but right here in Falmouth, really cool.
00:28:07
Speaker
um We've got loads of coffee shops, I think almost too many, but all but at least all of them are good. And there's only one, one know there's two chain there's two chain coffee shops in town, but the rest are independents and they're all doing their own thing, which is nice. We've now got the two wine bars. We've got a new gin place open. So yeah, it's looking good. Yeah, I think that sort of as we were leaving, we really noticed how independent Falmouth was. It was very independent driven and almost
00:28:38
Speaker
like you didn't want to go to the chains you wanted to support the independence speaking about coffee shops i remember i can't even remember the name of it it's the one just literally up the stairs from you next to bodega 18 Oh, 45. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was very, very partial to his coffee. Like once I sort of met him and got talking to him and he had a connection to Australia and lived there for a little bit. So I was like, right, this is the only coffee shop I'm going to. He loves snowboarding too. He loves snowboarding. It's actually really funny. I did two seasons when I was quite a lot younger in Australia and I had the best time. No, no, I was at Mount Hotham in Victoria.
00:29:18
Speaker
But I had the best time of my life like it was I was way too young I was 17 and 18 I think when I went but you know, it's what you do and it was so much fun Yeah, are you talking about Patrick's patch when you're talking about the vegetables? Yeah, it's not Patches patch. It's Patches patch. Oh, sorry, right.
00:29:38
Speaker
but Yeah, I remember we we went and picked up our vegetables from there a few times. And I think one thing that we've definitely noticed in the last couple of years, probably post COVID, I'm not sure, um is that people are very much into the provenance of where their food is coming from, um which I think before maybe it wasn't quite so much there. And I hadn't noticed it really in a lot of the other countries that we'd worked in. But now when we do our private dining or supper clubs for guests, people want to know where is your beef from.
00:30:07
Speaker
um you know, if we've got a vegetarian dish on which we always have a couple, you know, where is this vegetable from and people are really, really into where it's come from. And I think that's a big shift that I've noticed. I don't know if you've noticed the same thing. Yeah. I mean, when I, I grew up reading a whole bunch of, um, older British cookbooks. So your Nigel Slater's and Delia Smith's and all of those, my mom, my mom had all of them.
00:30:31
Speaker
And then obviously Jamie Oliver and all of those, but especially the Delia Smith ones, cause they were very seasonal. She did like a Christmassy one or whatever. And I was a bit nervous. I was like, I didn't really know that these seasons, like I'm going to come there and someone's going to say it to me like, Oh, you can't have that on. It's not in season or something. So that's kind of what I expected. And then arrived and I got my first order from the big veg supplier. And it was like the United nations of where the ingredients came from. You know, the garlic was from China.
00:31:01
Speaker
The red onions were from, I want to say the red onions and the apples were both from Australia. The baby beetroot was South Africa. The avocado was from South America, which avocado is obviously an obvious one. but oh that Yeah, like apples. I was like, why are we getting apples from from like Australia or New Zealand when we're in truly England, like the land of apples? um And that was a real eye-opener. I was like, wow, that's not what I expected. I was in my first week.
00:31:29
Speaker
and then we started to slowly discover is these farmers and what we needed to do. um But I think it's definitely become more, I think the independent guys did really well during COVID because people are at home and then then find a local market and they had time to go there and they had time to prepare something freshly, especially the The sourdoughs, thank everyone for became a sourdough master, um which obviously we get so many clients who talk to us about it. My sourdough style that we use at the restaurant is the same one that I started and in 2016. So she's been going now for over eight years. And I'm not making a sourdough bread. We're making sourdough crumpets on as well as the snacks, but we're using the sourdough in the bread, but not it's not a sourdough bread. We're just putting it in there to keep it going and keep it keep it alive.
00:32:21
Speaker
ah But everyone was was doing that, you know. um And everyone's become a lot more interested. We get loads of guests who've been on a foraging course. And they'll and if I'm out foraging, you'll see...
00:32:33
Speaker
quite a few other people sort of going along. Seaweed's still very much not something people go for. I mean, obviously, most most guests are doing, like, making their slo-gin, or they're scrumpling apples, or they, like, today we drove past about three people getting blackberries. Because blackberries, it's a safe choice, right? It's quite easy to spot, so you know what it's like. um And everyone really enjoys it, but they they do it just the once. They make their their blackberry crumble or their pine, and that's them for the season.
00:33:00
Speaker
um But it's really it's really good to see. And we get asked quite a lot. I mean, I think by the time you have the end of the meal, guest stop asking us where things come from because we're telling them all the time. We've got names for everything. I mean, we make a point to try and get the name of the fisherman who caught the fish and the name of the boat, which just says it's a lot to remember. um But it's just quite fun. Sometimes I'll be calling the boat something on the one side of the restaurant and Bobby will be saying something else because we've got confused between
00:33:31
Speaker
storm child and sea spray or whatever and do whatever it is, but they're still both local boats and there are that's where the fish normally comes from and things like that, which is which is fun. But I think it's good and we we really like that. We love getting a guest in who's really fascinated and asks us where all the things come from because they need to do that at a lot of restaurants because a lot a lot of restaurants will say all the things are local, um but it's not. um And you know if you're not going to do it, then don't say you're doing it.
00:34:00
Speaker
just Just do a regular menu. You know you don't have to say you have to say everything is from you know one place or one harbor or something like that ah um unless you are going to follow up and that's what you're doing, um which is a whole different subject. but Do you think a lot of people do that? Because quite often we'll see menus that you know say everything is locally sourced and stuff like that. But you never really know um unless you kind of dig into it, I guess. But do you find a lot of people kind of like to think that's what they're doing, but maybe they're not doing it as much as they like to advertise it? I think so. I think especially when you have, when you're naming what the fish is, or if they're calling it a dayboat fish, for example, which is quite common down here. If Iris had done a sea menu, it's a dayboat fish. That means that some guy has gone out by himself and I bought the fish directly from him. And I have dayboats.
00:34:56
Speaker
But for me to use a dayboat, I need to buy all 10 sea bass. I don't need 10 sea bass. And it takes a lot of time to prep 10 sea bass. So unless you have the kitchen to do that, and you're buying all of the fish from one guy, and then again, if you're having a restaurant that can do that, you're probably going to be selling out. So I think there's truth when someone says it's Cornish Mackerel, because we have a lot of mackerel, for example. um But something like that is just like you just You're just using a phrase and I don't know. it's Another thing is there's a lot of get a lot of restaurants that choose to say give a radius to their products. So we get asked quite often where the how far away are the things. And I was like, well,
00:35:42
Speaker
It's about half an hour, I guess. I don't know the exact distance, but um it's it's from one person, and I have to order a week out, and then they come and they drop off, and the next week I'll order more, and if they have some, they have some, and if they don't, they don't. Then we've got to work around it. but I think there's a fair amount of greenwashing around. It is obviously a buzzword that people are on a buzz. Our big thing is we don't, we never,
00:36:11
Speaker
opened up saying that we were going to be the most sustainable restaurant or anything like that. We just opened up and said we're going to be using local farmers. You know, now we have a page on our website about sustainability because that's kind of what with the cup. But when we open the doors, we open the doors to cooking the style and do this menu um and try and support our our local farmers as much as we can. But more than support them, it's promoting eating locally.
00:36:38
Speaker
Because we're a small restaurant. we don't I don't order loads from these guys. They're not retiring on what I buy from them. But the fact is is that more people would be interested in sourcing where their things are from. um And because of the way we work things, sometimes I go to Giles and I need two mackerel. Okay, Giles, can I get two mackerel? Yeah, sure. I can't phone one of the bigger suppliers and say I need two mackerel.
00:37:01
Speaker
um But then again, I'm going and getting it myself. I'm not relying on someone else to deliver a minimum order amount or or something like that, which makes it easier. But the annoying part is is when someone says that I'm just using local products, and then you know for a fact that some of the items are from much further away. um And then companies that sell themselves as being
00:37:29
Speaker
local or Cornish or British or whatever and then you start scratching away and you're like well hang on that's actually grown in France and then packaged here or I don't want to give away any names but that kind of thing. yeah well You know what I mean? um It's just thats just really annoying when because you you're working so hard to do something in an original way and an authentic way and you've got companies that made their names by like tricking everyone um But yeah, it's, uh, it's, that's the food industry anyway, you know? Yeah. Yeah. I find it a little bit annoying though. Like you, when we go into the supermarket, whichever one it is, say we're in Tesco and we're looking at the vegetables and we're like, okay, well that's from Spain. So we're not going to get that. And it's not, it's not because I guess we're against it, but we're very much like, well, we want to try and eat what's here. We want to, if we're going to get it from the supermarket, because we have to at the moment, and we want to make sure that what we're getting, we all do UK, you know?
00:38:29
Speaker
I'm not eating organic chicken and and like, you know, you know like rearrange beef at home all the time. I can't really afford to. No, we, we pick our battles, you know, like you have to, but it's, it's, it's really hard sometimes when you do look around and you're like, I'm sure that's in season in England right now, but yet it's still from Spain or Mexico or somewhere. Like you said, um, coming from Australia, like I don't really understand why not that I'm trying to stop trade from Australia. Sorry. Don't come at me, but, um,
00:39:00
Speaker
But you know what I mean? I don't understand why it's traveling all that way when we have seasons here. Like, do you think it's just because the general public are used to seeing apples and avocados and cucumbers all year round and they would be outraged if it wasn't in the supermarket? Is it just something that we're sort of feel entitled to and we're ingrained with or I just don't really understand it? I think so. I think we just we just have too much choice. I mean, my when I was When I was a kid, it was like one brand of shoes and I think they sold a pen with it and you could draw on your shoe, right? And that was your custom shoe. But my kids can now go onto to vans and like create their own shoe from scratch with their name and or whatever. and They didn't even have to choose a shoe off the shelf. They can customize everything.
00:39:47
Speaker
my daughter got her phone a couple of weeks ago, and like within a week or two, she wanted an app that changes the way all of your apps look on your phone. So you're already customizing something that you haven't even had for more than two weeks. And i just it's just the way that the way the world is. You can really create all these different things and custom things. And I think we're just used to getting whatever we want. The interesting thing for me is coming from South Africa.
00:40:18
Speaker
We have a huge um ah huge farming industry and so of again things grow very well. and um you know when we When I moved Yeah, and we've got the baby beets, for example, and they came all the way from South Africa. It wasn't necessarily the the issue of where it came from, but it was the fact that someone had cut the stalk off and the base of the roots. It had dried out in transit. And the reason it was coming from South Africa is because from like seed to having a baby beetroot is like four or five weeks. Whereas, yeah, you'll be waiting a couple of months before you get to see a beetroot. It's just they can grow them that quickly. But the interesting thing is is that
00:41:00
Speaker
South Africa exports a lot of its best produce. So we have the one of the biggest sardines runs in the world. But do you think anyone's serving sardines or getting the sardines? Those sardines leave the country and go somewhere far away because they're getting plenty of money. But ironically, if you bought sardines there, you'd buy a frozen bag of Portuguese sardines.
00:41:22
Speaker
And I'm pretty sure those sardines were frozen in South Africa, sent to Portugal, packaged, and then sent back. Because that's the kind of thing that that happens. um Avocados. we used to buy You could buy avocados from the side of the road, and they would be like South African avocados. But in the shops, the avocados would be from Kenya. Because the farmers were exporting all of them because they were getting more money. um So what do we add?
00:41:48
Speaker
um is that other has it and Taysbury's other day and the avocados were from South Africa. And they're great. It's a great avocado. But the only way we used to get avocados, if you knew someone with a tree, and they grow quite well, so a lot of people had trees in their gardens and had loads. And then hake, in South Africa, hake is like our fish and chip fish. Like if you go into fish and chips, hake's the one that you'll generally see everywhere.
00:42:12
Speaker
But the hake that they use is, which I remember is the deepwater hake. So it's a little bit, as soon as it gets like from the under from underwater with the high pressure and out, it goes really soft and hakes the soft fish anyway. And then my mom used to be able to get this hake from a fisheries and he sold it as export hake, because all the hake that was of export quality was being sent over to Europe.
00:42:38
Speaker
So the reason I'm talking about this is because i when I went to visit Newland, Newland lands are loads of hake. But they can't export it to Europe because the European market has already floated with hake because it's probably all coming from South Africa. you know Because they're getting it for a really good price and it's going straight there. And then there everyone is in South Africa thinking hake is a rubbish fish. Meanwhile, it's actually lovely if you get the if you get it when it's fresh and caught properly and and all of that kind of thing.
00:43:06
Speaker
um But as soon as you start looking at all of these, the way the food industry works, the way the modern modern ingredients and thickness and um like modern dairy and just how it's not real dairy anymore, um all of those sort of things. I mean, we, we were using, I used to use creme fraiche when I started in my career and we used to use creme fraiche quite often to make for like an armistice or make a drizzle or something. And you could take anything blend like, I don't know,
00:43:36
Speaker
like a crema latte mixed with something, blend with creme fraiche and you have a sauce that you can drizzle over. You try to do that with creme fraiche now and it just goes to water. It's like trying to pour milk over something, it doesn't work. We used to mix sriracha with creme fraiche to have on the side of the quesadilla and that was awesome. But you try to do that now and it just goes to water, you can't you can't work with it anymore.
00:43:56
Speaker
um And it's just all these emulsifiers and stuff. And as soon as you mess with it, it just breaks it down. you know we We're all using these thickness and that in our kitchens to produce sort of more modern dishes. But at least we're using it with a natural products from the beginning instead of like trying to save money and cut costs and all of that kind of thing.
00:44:15
Speaker
I think I went off on a tangent. We love tangents on here, don't we? I think it's one thing that I definitely noticed. I mean, coming from Australia, we don't really, I don't want to upset people, but I feel like me personally, I didn't really grow up knowing that much about the seasons, the food systems, how everything works like that. It wasn't really until I got into the kitchen and I got in late. I didn't get into the kitchen until I was 21. I started off from a house before that. yeah um I really didn't think too much about things. um It was just, you know, my nan would make dinner. It'd be on the table. That was it. But I think since I left Australia and since I especially since I went to France and Sweden,
00:44:58
Speaker
seeing more of the raw product like when you taste a butter from France or a creme fraiche from France and I think that they have such a different respect around their food systems and don't get me wrong they've got their shitty cheap soups as well but when you you can see the difference between you you know your your one pound creme fraiche and then the real thing it's it's very very different and I don't know, it's something that really opened up my eyes and made me think about it and think, well, like, yes, there are some places where you can, you know, pinch the pennies and cut costs, but then there are some things that you just, you just notice the difference on so heavily. And once you've tried the real unaltered thing, the real natural thing, how it was intended to be, it's, they're worlds apart, absolutely worlds apart. I mean, I was lucky, I think, cause when I was a kid, we went on a farm trip as a, you know, when I was, I don't know, like eight years old.
00:45:53
Speaker
We milked a cow and we tasted the milk straight out of the buckets. Now the kids aren't even allowed near the cow. And the milk they tried, the milk has pasteurized into the thing, but i can still I can still remember that. We had a we create crazy...
00:46:08
Speaker
and I don't want to take a crazy guess because he was a chef as well. um He was from Scandinavia. I can't remember where, but he ate here and he wants to open up a restaurant or whatever. And he said, do I know a dairy where he can get the first milk after the cough is born?
00:46:26
Speaker
And i I said to him, I was like, do you need to be lucky to get unpasteurized milk, really? And then he told me this whole story about the special milk that he can get and stuff. And I can understand, because it would be the same as you know and you have ah when you have a baby, the first you have the colostrum, that first real ultra you know nutrient-rich milk. So I'm sure it's the same thing with with cars. But I was just like, I don't know, man. you're not going to eat It's not going to be easy. It's not going to be easy to find.
00:46:52
Speaker
and that's like i i spoke to I spoke to one of the local dairies, and I said, well, you know what's um what's happening with the carbs? What are you doing? And they pretty much hung up on me. So who knows what's happening with the carbs. But luckily for us, there's been that push on the retired dairy carbs. I think a lot of the carbs are just being raised for retired dairy carbs, which is good, because it is it's a good product, and it's at least it's a less wasteful product.
00:47:18
Speaker
um But yeah, just that that was brilliant. Love to be able to source that kind of thing. I mean, for me, I don't. Okay, at the restaurant, we don't we don't use imported products. um You know, it'd have to be really desperate times to have to use something, but I wouldn't mind so much, if at least if it came from Spain. It's when it's coming from ridiculously far away, especially the garlic. Why does the garlic have to come all the way from China? you know' We next to the continent,
00:47:47
Speaker
Garlic actually grows really well. Yeah, there's quite a few guys growing garlic. It's just it's just one of those silly things It's it seems pretty straightforward. I can't imagine Garlic having too many pests, you know of things of things going for them and that's ah not compared to tomatoes and and things like that. So I Don't know the other thing if you're gonna be cooking locally and using farmers produce is you got to realize like I'm gonna have to be inventive with like a Swede You know and just because I hated it as a kid and the only time I've ever had it was as a sweet and carrot mash which is gross um
00:48:18
Speaker
There's other things you can do with it. It's a really it's a cool vegetable. you know absolutely absolutely um ah so yeah um but that's That's something you know that you need to get your head around and be inventive and be like, okay, cool. Things like kale and cabello nera and all of those things grow really well. yeah All the brassicas grow really well. but um you know just putting aside the fussiness and realizing that it's good and and using it in this way. We get asked a lot about um about zero waste. you know We don't advertise ourselves as being zero waste. I waste less the busier the restaurant is. What we do is we manage to
00:48:53
Speaker
get out portions of the whole animal down to the exact amount so for example we have chicken on at the moment and I get the perfect amount of portions out of the dark meat and the white meat for the dish I'm currently doing and we do the same thing with lamb I buy half a lamb or or whole lamb and then when I break it down I've used up the whole thing I'm not left with like some and know some knuckle and some neck or something like that. and We just work in that way. But if I was to take all of my veg off cuts and preserve them and ferment them and all that kind of stuff, I just end up with a ah room full of bubbling away veg off cuts. I can't use all of them. So we will save some of that waste when we need it for something. um Generally, I'm dehydrating veg off cuts because those are really flavorful for powders and stuff. but
00:49:48
Speaker
You know, it's just, it's a, the zero waste thing I think is really interesting. There's a cool way to use certain waste, and yeah, okay fine, you can make, you can make treacle and caramels and marmites and all that kind of stuff, but you're not making it out of all of your food waste. You know, I mean, you're gonna have a lot. It's just the way it is. I mean, marmite does cook to nothing, but you would need to be, you need to be honest with yourselves and honest with your guests and on what you're doing, and guests bring it up with me, that's what I say. It's like, listen, you know, right now the restaurants are full, um like on that particular night, whatever. um But I'd have less food waste if I was busier, really. It's said the truth of it, because obviously we still need ah we still need a buffer. I try and cook to the reservations I have, so I'm not wasting um wasting prepped items. But we still need to order a little bit of a buffer in case we pick up last minute at the end of the week.
00:50:41
Speaker
Because none of my suppliers are like, hey, can I get something on second run? I can get dairy on second run. That's fine. And eggs. But as far as like venison and chicken and things like that, it's that's ah that's a weekly order, um which is ah which is a gamble. um But we're honest about it. you know we're not um We're not trying to hide behind anything. that's what we That's what we do. Yeah.
00:51:05
Speaker
Do you feel like the pressure on that kind of stuff has picked up since you gained your green Michelin star, which is amazing. Congratulations, by the way. Thank you. I still don't know how they how they found us.
00:51:22
Speaker
I always hear chefs on podcasts and you know like when they're speaking someone wants to know about how did it feel when you got your star or your green star and how amazing was it and all of that. and In my head we already know that it was amazing you know like it's an amazing feat and you should be so so proud.
00:51:39
Speaker
But I guess I always see it from the other side. um Like how much pressure did it put on you and on the restaurant? Did you feel like people's expectations had shifted? Did you notice anything sort of change for you in the restaurant once you gained your green star? It was interesting for us. So we opened July 2022 after three months of refurb.
00:52:04
Speaker
We opened, it's a very different concept, so you know, we're in ah we're in a smallish town, I think the population of Farmmouth is like 26, maybe 28,000, which is really small on on UK standards, but big four corner. And we opened a tasting menu only a restaurant with an optional wine flight, and then a smaller tasting menu for lunch.
00:52:26
Speaker
And it's a gamble, like, okay, fine, this is how we're doing it. The story that many reads is a story. um So let's let's go with it and kind of see what happens. You know, I've been in a town for a while. I was confident behind the way I was cooking and what I was doing. And we did that July.
00:52:50
Speaker
And then we carried on working and obviously deep down, you're like, cool, I hope Michelin visits because they never visited previously. And then I think it was in November, my like my Twitter went crazy and they tweeted a picture of one of the dishes on the menu. So I've got goosebumps not talking about it, because every time it's just like, oh, it's like, well, they came. but Who was it? You know, we don't know who it was. You're like going back through your head. It goes through your head. Which guest could it have been?
00:53:19
Speaker
Yeah, we don't know who it was or whatever, or something like that, you just you just don't know. and um So we're like, okay, cool, that's that's a box text. Then you get the email saying, oh, we we'd like to list you, but it's not guaranteed. They say, we envisage listing you. So they they play games, and you're like, i okay, fine. and So maybe we're in and they ask for details and and things like that, and you send it on. And then we were hoping that we're going to get mentioned in the pre-listing that they do. So every month they list the new favorites or whatever.
00:53:48
Speaker
And they the UK Michelin announcements is normally in February, and they announced that year, they're going to do March. um So like, okay, March is around the corner. And we knew that they always announced this thing towards the end of the month. So every time at the end of the month, we we're like, okay, fine, all excited. um And it was February, it was the last announcement they were doing. And then they did their release on Twitter that we were a new listing, which was awesome.
00:54:17
Speaker
Some tears were shared. We were like, cool, we're in the book. I can i can bring my little Michelin man that I bought. eight years ago and put him on the shelf in the restaurant like I was really stoked because he stayed at home you know um and so we're stoked we you know we celebrated that night we're really excited. ah Two weeks later I was in Trego and checking my emails and email came through from a Wine Supply and another email about something else a missing invoice or something and then it was an email from Michelin with the word invitation. Oh my god. I'm in Trego which you know.
00:54:52
Speaker
which is a really odd place and I was in shock and I was blocking the queue because I just stood there. like oh So we came we came back to the restaurant and I read it and they're pretty much inviting us to the ceremony two weeks later. Then I was just like, what but the F? Because now you don't know. you just You're going, you've been invited. Why am I invited? Does everyone get invited? Is this a new listing invite? um you know what do we What are we doing?
00:55:19
Speaker
um so We're like, OK, fine. We're on our way to South Africa. We had to shift our dates because we were flying on the Saturday. The awards are on the Monday. um We're like, we can't miss this. I mentioned to my wife that maybe I'll go by myself and she can go to the kids. She's like, no, she's not missing it either. She would want to have more days in South Africa, obviously. But it's one of those moments where you want to be there. um Anyway, long story short, we rocked up at the awards. There were not a lot of people there.
00:55:46
Speaker
Like it was a lot of people there, but not like it wasn't everyone listed and staff and we're like, okay, fine. And then they did all the announcements. And in our minds, we were ready kind of like, we've got to be ready for when we reopen. Like there's no, it's this different thing. And the whole two weeks, I was a bit of a mess, like trying to, trying to concentrate. And I think our last night that we cooked before closing, we only cook for like two tables.
00:56:09
Speaker
And I was just thinking, when we reopen in four weeks, this is a different restaurant. You people don't know that this is going to be a a different restaurant. It's the same restaurant. But it changes. um and and And from when we were listed, our booking shut up immediately before we even were going to the awards. And of course, they announced that only four green stars handed out that year. It was ourselves. And then down at Crockettin, which is awesome. So two for Cornell, which is really awesome. We're stoked with that.
00:56:39
Speaker
And yeah, pretty much flew to South Africa the next day with a raging hangover, that slept really well on the plane, had the green star with me like the whole time, and just had to like travel with this thing. It was big news for South Africa, because at the time I was the only South African chef who'd achieved it. And I think there were are only three There were three other chefs, there were only three chefs with Michelin stars from South Africa. So that was it was big news, which was really cool. So a holiday had become more of a work trip. um And then, yeah, then got back reopened. And it was kind of a similar feeling to when I achieved three rosettes at the hotel, you know, you feel this extra pressure. But the interesting thing is, is that the only person putting the pressure on is yourself.
00:57:27
Speaker
The guests are coming because I've heard of you, but you got the award for what you were doing. And that's what we remind ourselves about now. Whatever happens in the future and and what we achieve is you're getting it for what you're already doing. you're not You're not getting it because you're trying to get it or you're not getting it because you you're trying to get somewhere and you got there. Like just do what you were doing all the time. um It's easier to say now in hindsight, but at the time there was that like,
00:57:55
Speaker
Oh, you know, that that sort of moment. But it helped because we're already doing it in its way. So we already had this network of farmers and and fishermen and and all of that kind of thing about what we're doing. I think the hard part was just suddenly being busier, which is obviously great. It's what you want. um But that was the that was the adjustment, you know, is to to get back into it. And being in South Africa and just watching our reservations.
00:58:21
Speaker
Pretty much why we're in South Africa is when Peter could resign from her job and join the restaurant full time, you know, and things like that, which is absolutely awesome. um And now since New Year's, she's now the pastry chef. So I've got a pastry chef. Hey. Which is really cool. So um if anyone's eaten in the last, what is it, one month? We're in ninth month. In the last nine months, the desserts have gone up because it stopped me trying to do everything.
00:58:48
Speaker
ah which has been really cool and she's super talented. So the page trees are really awesome. um But yeah, i think I think that's really important to remember. Scotty Patton at, ah what's the Russian called? He's at Boringdon Hall. He's at a cliff in Plymouth, which is outside Plymouth. And he said in an article I read that when he got his Michelin star for the first like two months, they felt like frauds. And I know how he felt like it's, it's you don't you I think the rosettes were worse because we knew for three months that we got them and we couldn't say anything. Whereas the awards, you just know you're going and you don't know what you're getting. um So yeah, it's just it's just realizing you've got to have confidence in what you're doing, you know cook what you love, and then you know people like it, they like it, and if they don't, they don't. but it's it's
00:59:41
Speaker
the awards just something that you get and it's amazing and it's great for great for business and ourselves and our our reputation. and um But that's the funny part is is that we were flown to Abu Dhabi last year through Fortune magazine to go cook for 300 people at a conference. um And I'll have a guest to walk in tomorrow who lives up the road and says they never heard of us. You know, that's that's the That's the funny part. That's what we really that's what we really love.
01:00:11
Speaker
you know um It's like we got this reputation. I had someone come for a stash from America, from Vermont. But we're still like not that well known in our town, which is really which is I find really funny. That's crazy. But it's cool. Word of mouth spreads. you know It's just one of those things. um I'm sure you guys probably had the same thing when you were working at Le Peniche.
01:00:33
Speaker
And um yeah, we're right here. We're hidden, but we like being hidden. We're in a little sailor warehouse next to the harbor. It's a cool spot. We like it because it's about the experience you have in this building. We don't have a view. you know We have a little window and it's fine, but you have a lovely view when you arrive and when you leave. um But it's not about it's not about the view. and It's about the experience and our farmers and our produce and then what we decide to to do with it.
01:00:59
Speaker
That must have been so and intensely scary and exciting when you when you knew you've been invited to the ceremony. I can't even imagine what was going through your head. not like and I can't even think of anything close that I've experienced. How did you even manage to keep it under the arts and keep yourself focused on work? I pictured a really cool photo of me sitting on the kitchen floor rereading the email on the day we got the email.
01:01:28
Speaker
I've saved the email. I should probably just print it and frame it, because it is it's one of those silly things. like we think I'm really looking forward to going back to my culinary school and talking to them about it, because it's something that you look at when you're there. And it so it seems so out of reach. And besides the award, I kind of wish that all chefs who have big goals with their careers and are really passionate about what they do and love what they do can experience just going to the actual award ceremony, because
01:01:59
Speaker
Everyone was just so nice. I've been to award ceremonies before. Everyone was very judgy and protective and and funny about it. But when you go to something, when you've got all these guys who've achieved what they want to achieve, or obviously trying to achieve more, some of them, and they're just so So we were walking around with the award and so many people stopped us to say congratulations and shake our hands and stuff like that. and it was just It was just really cool. But the yeah, so it was two weeks from getting the email to go into the awards. ah I didn't really prep the rest of that Tuesday. We kind of went home and and chilled and then opened on the Wednesday and it was just like,
01:02:38
Speaker
It was just really hard to concentrate on anything and not tell anyone. and like and have i mean It was in that was in February, so it's February in Cornwall, it's quiet, so you're not cooking for sort of lots of people, and they're very excited to talk to you about being listed. and When you're listed in the guide, people think you already have a Michelin star anywhere, and we quietly correct them, but at the same time, you don't really, from a business point of view, you're just like, oh, whatever.
01:03:03
Speaker
um But yeah, um the build up to getting it, any kind of like thinking, and then so because you don't know. And while I would, I'd be lying if I said I didn't want a red Michelin star, we as a business wouldn wouldn't have been ready for that pressure. Because I think that's, I don't want to say that the green star doesn't add pressure because it's different and people associate the two with each other, but I think that's a difference
01:03:34
Speaker
because everyone's idea of what a Michelin style meal is is different. All the green star restaurants are so different. Some people have farms and some people have solar panels or zero waste or whatever it is. But everyone kind of has this clear idea of what ah of a Michelin meal is because on paper, it's just like that old school, finicky, German, French style, everything perfectly cut. Whereas actually, its it's very different these days. It has a lot of of different guises. So I was kind of nervous, like,
01:04:02
Speaker
show that if that happens, like then we've got to think, like we'll need more staff. And you know we keep things very simple. We don't we we use um we used ah disposable serviettes. We don't have linen serviettes in things in our restaurant. That's part of our process because we don't need to waste any water washing it and dealing with the extra cost of washing and all that kind of stuff. We don't have you know all of that kind of thing. You start thinking all these things in your mind. You'll have to upgrade all your glassware and knives and all that kind of thing. but You don't have to. You carry on you know you carry on doing it with what do what do you have. And um and then we we're like, oh, do we need to elevate the menu and reopen and start thinking about the reopening menu? Because now it's like it's something else. And these are all things that you need to think of before you even go. Think about the press release. Think about who you're going to tell. um Because you don't need to tell. You don't want to tell. It was a weird feeling of like, I didn't want to tell people because what if we don't get anything?
01:05:01
Speaker
You know, like a couple of years ago we tried to move to Australia and it didn't work. And people were like, oh, when are you going to Australia? Oh, no, we're not going anymore. Because we weren't allowed to go because Australia said I wasn't a chef. Anyway, yeah. Oh, I'm sorry for my headache. It's all right. I don't need your hats anyway. We're very protective over our hats. It's all we've got, OK? But so I pretty much sent a message to my friend ah Nick, who was over in France, who you've been to the work for. Yeah, um Nick. honey you got his Yeah, you got his star last year, which is awesome. I sent him a message and I said, dude, do you get invited to the awards every year? He said, no, you only get invited if you get something. He's like,
01:05:45
Speaker
I haven't been invited yet. Why have you been invited? oh i was like i was like I was like, yes. He's in France. So I was like, yes. And he was super excited or whatever. So I let him know. I let my first sous chef know Brad and he was super excited. um And I can't remember if I let my my other friend know. I think I let my friend in the States know and my friend in Dubai know.
01:06:07
Speaker
and then my family, and then that was it. I didn't let anyone else know that I worked with or anything. And then obviously our restaurant team knew that we were going. But that was really, yeah, it was really fun. And then obviously once we were there, and that was that was really cool. Because then we were like, okay, now we can relax. We'll get our selfie with the bendom, which you have to get. Which is awesome. I love that picture. It's just the best. Because then we're just kind of like, oh, what are we doing here?
01:06:35
Speaker
Yeah, and the awards was really cool. I saw Jean Delport who's, I think it was South Africa's second or third chef to get a Michelin star. So he was like, what are you doing? I was like, I've got an invite. you Like, I've got no idea. Yeah, I don't know what I'm doing. But I think now that I know a little bit more about it, I think the worst is is if you have If you have a a red star, one, two, or three, you get invited back to the awards every year, unless you don't have an award anymore. So every year, I'm not sure when these guys get the emails, but every year you're going to have chefs stressing out waiting for the email that you're going. um So with the green star, you don't get invited back. Which we weren't sure we were getting either. we're like
01:07:23
Speaker
Do we get invited back every hour? Are they taking it away? like it's really It's really quite something. and and And a lot of people don't realize you go through this. Michelin star chefs are going through this every year. That's so intense. What I read about or what I heard is the, if you have two or three stars and you're going to lose one, Michelin lets you know so you can prepare your media. But if you have one star, I think you're just not going to go.
01:07:51
Speaker
um So, I mean, it doesn't happen often, obviously, because it's it's not it's not really a ah thing, but it's just such an intense, just the emotions we had on that we're going. You know, so, yeah. But it's good. It's really cool. We kind of forget about it. You know, we we like to be quite, I'm trying to think what's the word, we try to be quite humble with what we do.
01:08:17
Speaker
So if a guest comes in and says, oh, you've got a Michelin star, we're like, oh, we have a Michelin Greenstar. We will correct them. We're not going to hide behind it. So we don't, if I make a reservation at a restaurant, I reserve under my chef's email. But I don't say, oh, I'm ah um a chef coming, duh, duh, duh, duh. You know? which Just one of those things. Do people actually do that? Is that a thing? Possibly. me You know what? I don't.
01:08:45
Speaker
I find that it's easier to cook for chefs who've achieved something than chefs who haven't. So we've had we've had we had our first big name chef in last week, which is awesome. He's got a star. And we were nervous having him, but we were really stoked. And he hung around and chatted to us afterwards. And that was really cool. And it was really chill in the moment. And then we've had a lot of um ah corner chefs come in.
01:09:15
Speaker
um And we just chill and cook with them and they'll hang around and we'll have a drink and they want to see the kitchen and stuff like that and that's awesome. And then every now and again you get the grumpy table that doesn't want to sit by the pass and it will sit right in the corner. It's an open plan kitchen. And you drop everything off and they're just a little bit funny about it. And you're just like, you know what? In the beginning we were a bit like, ooh, like sort of worried that we did something wrong. And it's actually like, you know, no, sorry, dude. We know what we're doing. You know, like we we got here.
01:09:45
Speaker
I'm
Personal Reflections and Work-Life Balance
01:09:46
Speaker
cooking everything. I'm tasting everything. I'm not relying on someone else to do it. ah Someone else is not, if I make a mistake, it's mine. We talk to all the tables. So if anything's wrong, we can pick up on it. And I'm sure you guys saw the same. It's the, I mean, initially I thought, I wonder, it's like, we follow a lot of chefs and you see like the three star chefs and two star chefs go on these trips and they go eat at all these other restaurants. And I was like, do they go out and have this disgruntled meal?
01:10:13
Speaker
But no, they don't. it's the It's the guys who think they deserve something that are having the disgruntled meal. And everyone just needs to go out and enjoy it. the The best advice I got was from Uncle James, who's retired from the liquor industry. And he said to me, it was a long time ago. I think I was still at culinary school. And we had ah a meal that was at ah a steak place or a pasta place. And he said, what did you think? And I said, oh, it was good, but it needed more parmesan or whatever. And he said, well, can I give you some advice? When you're out for a meal,
01:10:43
Speaker
Go out and enjoy the meal. And the next day when you wake up, if you feel like there's something that that you could have done better, then you go and do it better at your own place. But you enjoy the meal for what it is. And that is so true. It's like, you just got to go out and it's hard as well because we don't go out to a whole lot. So generally in regard, we try to go to decent places. But you don't want to go out and judge a meal. You're not there to judge it. Are you there just to enjoy it? Exactly. um You know, enjoy the company, enjoy that. And yeah and i think and that's I think a lot of people need to take that advice and and and dine out in that way. Now, this is obviously targeted at restaurant goers and chefs.
01:11:29
Speaker
Because if you come and have have an experience here, and what we do is is very simple, the technique behind it is is very complicated. But what we serve is very much about the ingredients ah I don't cut the beetroot into little blocks and cutting into quarters and keeping the shape and all that kind of stuff. And I can imagine someone sitting and being like, oh, well, this is pretty easy. Well, cool. Cool, dude. Go and do it. Knock yourself out. Because this is what we do and how we chose to do it. And yeah, we're really stoked with it. We're really enjoying it. We've got an awesome work-life balance.
01:12:05
Speaker
um
Handling Feedback and Reviews
01:12:06
Speaker
you know tomorrow I can kind of decide what time I want to come to work because I did a fair amount of prep today and I'm gonna go probably foraging because I need more blackberries this week but then again I put my foraging box inside my mountain bike bag and then I go mountain biking and get the blackberries on the way.
01:12:23
Speaker
um And we try and tie that in. And then Bobby and I will go surfing. He's my restaurant manager slash Samalia slash KP slash server. And you used to be on my pastry chef. So the restaurants run on three chefs, to be honest. Three chefs and a server now. And we'll go surfing at Port Leaven. And Port Leaven's a place where we can get certain sea vegetables. So we just tie that in with our work. And that's kind of just how we modeled it and what we're doing.
01:12:54
Speaker
It's a really amazing balance, I think. i um I loved what you were saying before that sometimes chefs can be the worst people to come in and eat at your restaurant because it's something that I've always said. If a group of chefs or waitresses or whatever, a group of industry people, we're all going out.
01:13:09
Speaker
Or if like equally and on the other hand, if you're having a whole group of industry people come to dine with you, you're like, they're either going to be the loveliest guests in the world. Yeah. Or they're going to be the biggest pains in the ass because they're going to think they know everything and they're going to want everything exactly how they want it. And it's always one of two ways, you know, they can be. You only need one. I mean, you've seen this in kitchens as well. You only need one poisonous apple in a kitchen to get the morale down.
01:13:34
Speaker
and And if you get that happens, and we we get some really cool groups of yacht chefs and yacht crew come. And that's really fun because they're living a pretty chill life. i mean They have some high stress moments, but come on. You're having a pretty chill time most of the time.
01:13:51
Speaker
ah and But then again, like we've had yacht the one guy who came, he's on a yacht with his three chefs, and the yacht's never three chefs, so that's a gigantic boat. um And he' when he comes next time, is it'll be his third visit, you know and they're just any he brought other chefs with, and they just ought to enjoy it. um The other thing is we we have the two tables by the pass, so the particular table I mentioned earlier, they came,
01:14:20
Speaker
and they could have chosen any table in the restaurant, but they chose the one furthest away from the pass. And immediately I was like, oh, come on, dude. Anyway, don't even get me excited that the same chef gave us a one star on TripAdvisor.
01:14:33
Speaker
What chefs do reviews on TripAdvisor? Well, he's not really a radio chef anyway, but I'm not kidding. It's fine. It's fine. What industry people will leave rub reviews on TripAdvisor? Surely we know within the industry that TripAdvisor is just where people go to vent what they thought they were entitled to and didn't get. No one in the industry does that.
01:14:55
Speaker
The funniest thing for us is we the first review I ever read of myself on TripAdvisor was the worst review I've ever had on TripAdvisor. a guy ah guy if If you typed it out on his computer screen, it would have been an A4 page. And the heading was called Heroes and Villains. And I was a villain because of how loudly I was shouting at my staff. I was a very different chef then. ah had stuff and I And I was very i was running. you know It is the old school way. That's how I was trained. That's how you get things done.
01:15:25
Speaker
Anyway, this guy wrote this destroy of ah of a, you can still find it online, um of ah of a review. And that's how I first discovered TripAdvisor. like So what we do now is we, I get a lot of messages, especially on Facebook and Instagram with people saying, we'll give you however many TripAdvisor reviews and this and whatever. So what I've started to do is I block out their name and I repost it on Instagram and say, don't trust TripAdvisor, trust experiences.
01:15:52
Speaker
yep um So we were at that time, I think we were like, I don't know, number 20 in Falmouth or something, whatever, because of a certain one-star review that we got. But since I started doing that, we're now number one on TripAdvisor. Everyone wants to see their review posted on your Instagram. Since I started calling it out for being rubbish, now suddenly we've managed to get a bunch of good ones that we move up. And I just think it's really funny. I mean, it's still rubbish. It's important for business.
01:16:23
Speaker
And my rule of thumb with TripAdvisors, you look at the top 20, whatever region you're at, you look at the top 20, and then you look at who you think is cooking fresh food, and then you probably have four restaurants, or five restaurants, and then you choose which one of those you want to go to. And that's kind of how we travel, because it does give you a good idea of what you of what you want. um But I knew because we would be a good restaurant, you know, and then, not this one particularly, but other ones I ran,
01:16:52
Speaker
But you wouldn't you'd be sitting in that top 20 category. And we knew we were doing some cool stuff with good service, good wines, all of that kind of thing. But you're being beaten by a crowd pleaser, which is fantastic. It's good. um But yeah, we really stoked not to be number one. But it literally happened since we started calling it out. you know i probably ah but i get One of those messages, I guess it's like once a week, at least.
01:17:17
Speaker
boosting Google reviews, all of that kind of stuff. And we're just like, whatever. It doesn't matter. And the other thing is when you read the reviews, you need to read all the reviews. You know, i read the bad ones too, because it's really it's really quite funny. um You think like, was that at the same place?
01:17:32
Speaker
Um, but you get a, you get a good idea. You know, you got to look at all of them anyway. I think the funniest one that we got when we were at La Peniche was there was this guy that came in and for whatever reason, he wasn't happy. It wasn't his cup of tea. And I can get that, you know, like what we're doing is a little yeah different. It's not your mainstream roast potatoes and all of that. It's not what you would come to Vincent and me for. And he said, um, you'd get better flavor and better value at the local kebab shop. And that was it. That was his only review and I.
01:18:02
Speaker
and Wow, that stings a little bit, but also that's really funny. It is funny. You just have to laugh at it. You're like, I don't even get it. Like some people, I feel like just come in wanting not to like it. And you can tell from the moment they walk in sometimes that like you, you came in here with a certain expectation because you'd heard from somebody that they really liked it or whatever.
01:18:23
Speaker
yeah but you almost you can feel that they've come in not wanting to like it and i just never really quite understand that i don't understand that it's so bizarre what are you doing going out then literally go to the kebab shop the other thing is is when you you need to remember that you mustn't take them personally because then you're just going to get angry and you're going to waste time on it um so my best was was one i responded to which i'm suspicious was also a chef actually the second one star we got um And I pretty much responded because we already knew we were going to be listed in the in the guide. So I responded and I said, well, have a great rest of your year because I know we will. It must have really grated them so badly. because and the And we also knew that like we had a lot of media things happening. um So we said as a team, we're like, you know what, it's it's fine to hate on us or whatever.
01:19:19
Speaker
But if you have a problem with what we do, you're in for a really bad time, because we're going to keep on popping up. It's just what its is what we do. But it's good fuel for your fire. I mean, I remember when I worked, I ran my culinary school's training restaurant for a few years, a couple of years ago. And the bus came in for the first menu tasting. And we were doing a 555 menu.
01:19:44
Speaker
and I started plating up and we got halfway through the mains, and she was just tearing everything apart, like giving me the worst criticism ever. And I remember like I called a stop to the tasting. I said, okay, no, that's fine. you know And I remember driving home that night and thinking, I never want to have any of the dishes changed after a tasting, which meant that all the dishes were more perfect when I sent. At the time, I thought they were great, but I realized they weren't
01:20:15
Speaker
where they should have been. And that was my goal. That was like, fine, I never want to have a tasting where any of the dishes get rejected. And that was the last time that any of the dishes were rejected.
01:20:26
Speaker
You know, that's the way it is. And it's a similar way where you want to be when you when you're working day to day. You know, you want everything to be really good because then you know that, no, that's not the experience that person had because I'm doing this. And it's not I'm not hiding behind an ego or something. It's like I know what, we know what we're doing. We've been doing this long enough. I know if it was seasoned. I know if I messed up. I know if I overcooked it or a portion was small or whatever because you know, the food doesn't lie. It's it's there.
01:20:56
Speaker
You know, um so it's important to remember that if you are following those rules and you're doing it the best that you can and and how you want to do it, not to take any of this stuff personally because in the end that's someone who knows less than you and they're actually just disgruntled because they haven't got what you have.
01:21:16
Speaker
Um, or maybe they want it. yeah That's it. like Like, you know, that's, it doesn't obviously back to like an industry person, but yeah. It is hard to remind yourself of that sometimes. Like I find myself, um, I mean, to be fair, it hasn't happened in a little while, but I remember when it did happen, when I had my first head chef role and it was a big restaurant doing a lot of covers and seven days a week, it was probably too big for me to take on my first head chef role, to be fair. but I remember going through the reviews and there were loads of them and most of them were good, but there'd be a couple of really shitty ones and I would take it so to heart. yeah really It was actually Vincent that would help pull me out of my little rabbit hole sometimes. He'd be like because
Work Dynamics and Culinary Philosophy
01:21:54
Speaker
say food is subjective like, if you're happy with what you sent out and you knew that you did the best that you could do with what you had, and
01:22:00
Speaker
you know you you're happy with what you sent then the rest is on them if they didn't like it because of personal preference then you can't change that and it's something i really have to kind of remind myself don't go down that rabbit hole because i'm so bad for that i take it so personally yeah no it's it's really well it's harder to take it personally because you're putting a lot of effort into it so many hours of your life are put into this stuff like i think back to i think back to the the times i missed out um funerals birthdays weddings uh going to Staggedies. I do cancel being my best friend's best man because I had started a new job. And it's it's to this day, i'll I'll never forgive myself for doing it. But at the time, I had to do it. i to like And that job was a great stepping stone to where I am now. But looking back at it, you just need to remember that if you think you need time off to do something or go somewhere, just ask. You're not going to lose your job.
01:22:56
Speaker
And there were loads of times when I was working as a CDP and stuff where, I mean, I remember missing out on someone who was really important to me as funeral because I had a lot of prep on. But I didn't ask my other, the rest of the team to help with the prep because I need to go to a funeral just for the afternoon, be back for service. I just dug into my hole and now I must do my prep, you know? um And looking back now, I think that's one thing I would have changed in how I did things.
01:23:24
Speaker
I mean, from a work ethic perspective, it's good, but you don't have to do that anymore. And I think the industry's changed in that way, where you can you can make time for these things. um Because always, yeah.
01:23:40
Speaker
wass just it's lives Life's too short, and there's much more, well, not much more important things, but there's there's important things going on. you know um I mean, we were we work hard, but that's why I try and tie in some of my prep to some of the things I enjoy doing. You don't want foraging to be a chore. We used to joke at the hotel, because we used to call it a night forage, because service would start. And then i then an auto would come in and be like, shit, no one would wear foraging. Bobby would go out the back of the kitchen with a torch and go and pick some penny warts and stuff like that in the middle of service, because we didn't have the time to go and do it. you know um
01:24:22
Speaker
whereas now we make the time for it and we go and you know you can't a forage for penny water go mountain biking because it gets bruised but you can get the berries that works so little things like that we try and do but yeah but I think it's important to to obviously with this industry to get somewhere you need to work hard but also realizing when when enough's enough no one should work seven days a week unless someone's been injured. I mean, I worked, I think the longest I worked was four weeks straight without it off dead. That's a lot. Because the restaurant manager was in a car accident and the sous chef had a nervous breakdown and it was four weeks. That was, that was hectic. That was hard work. And we did it. We pulled it off. But in hindsight, the restaurant should have just closed one of those days. Yeah. I mean, like, sorry, whatever, closed on a Monday or something. Like, it's just,
01:25:15
Speaker
But at the time, we're just like, no, let's go. like We've got to carry on going. I think that's something that you only see with hindsight, though, and with a bit of age and experience. Like I was exactly the same when I was, you know, probably embarrassingly not even that long ago. But um I remember doing very similar things, you know, like I pulled a three weeks stint at my my second ever restaurant that I worked in because I was told that that's what we needed to do. And we had to get through it. And, you know, looking back on it, we maybe yeah just reduced the covers a little bit and then put a little bit less pressure on the team for that short amount of time. But
01:25:47
Speaker
in that moment you don't think about it you think okay i've got two hundred kilos of whole snapper that's in and i have to fill it all of this and have it ready and portioned and brined and dried off before the service and you just you're just very very singular focus i think when you're younger and when you're in the kitchen and It's not until you grow up a little bit and take a step back and you're like okay well I know what I can achieve in this amount of time and I know I can juggle these two things together and then that when I do that it means I can have this time off and yeah I don't know it's something that hindsight is very lovely and a bit of age and experience gives you a lot more clarity I think. I wanted to ask quickly what's it like working in the kitchen with your wife? Are you enjoying it? It's awesome.
01:26:28
Speaker
I think the only difference is, is I got so used to doing it by myself for a year and now I come in and there's someone else there. And we don't have a lot, we don't have loads of stuff, you know. We've got like one fish slice, one offset spatula. So if one person's got it, the other one needs it or whatever. But that's really cool. I mean, it's a bit weird at the end of service because I don't have to do desserts anymore. So I kind of, I kind of start cleaning down and then I'm kind of like,
01:26:55
Speaker
I'm like a third wheel, which is really funny, because she doesn't let anyone help plate the desserts. You don't go near that station, ah which is really funny, because my whole career I dodged plating desserts.
01:27:10
Speaker
No, but it's awesome. you know We worked together in the States, and we did a bit of catering in South Africa and stuff, and it was awesome. And especially today, going out and foraging for the desserts and being out and doing the Blackberries, who dropped the kids off at school,
01:27:24
Speaker
We drove out into the countryside, drove some like, you know, when you drive around, you're like, oh, that's a nice little house, like, you know, and taking the time to do that. And then, yeah, no, it's awesome. We, we work really well together. We've always worked well together. um And I think it's, it works both ways. It's really good for your relationship as well. I mean, our relationship is great anyway, but it just, it'll, it'll help cement all of those things, which is really good.
01:27:54
Speaker
um You know, she had a long break out of out of the industry. She never had a mentor when she was working as a chef, so she never worked for someone that was really like, wow, like I can think of my two mentors straight away. I mean, and not just people I look up to. So she's got a lot of books that she looks at and that's, and I think that's probably the one thing that I really wish she she'd had just for the experience to have. um But I said to her, I was like, you know, what screw having a mentor. You don't need it. Look where we are now. Like, you know, we,
01:28:25
Speaker
We met at culinary school in flipping, what is it? I think it's 17, 17 years ago in a few days, I think. And look where we are now. You know, we've got this restaurant in a different country, which is absolutely awesome in this really amazing town. And we can do whatever we want. We're not following any rules. We're breaking more rules than anything. You know, if I put this menu structure up for a culinary exam, I'd probably fail. Which I'm going to say to the students when I'm there. It's probably not a bad thing though. No. I mean, I stopped putting carbs on the plates in 2010. I stopped trying to do all of that kind of stuff, cooking a lighter way. There's still a lot of dairy though, ah so which is fine. Can I get a lactose? I love dairy, sorry. yeah We don't do lactose here.
01:29:22
Speaker
ah And that's really cool. um you know And it's great to to see the feedback we get, especially on our desserts. And you know you don't need you don't need a mentor. you know One of my regrets in my career, if I think back to it, is not um is' not working at ah at a Michelin restaurant, at a Michelin-style restaurant. ah But guess what? We now have a Michelin-less restaurant. we And the green star and all of that. And that's just doing it the way we do it, which is which is really cool.
01:29:51
Speaker
um I probably would have only done it for a couple of weeks anyway. But I had enough friends who did it, and the stories they had, especially because it was like mid-2000s, it was a very different and very wasteful way of cooking as well, like it was mad wasteful. But no, it's awesome. We work really well together. I think the biggest problem we have is if, because of the limited amount of ingredients, is that we both want to use the same ingredients, then we can't. But it's going to be safe for dessert or whatever. Like she has an eye on my honey.
01:30:22
Speaker
But that honey is for the beginning of the meal. Oh Give me the honey alone. And then she tested it out and we get a small batch honey. So it's from one hive. um So there's not a lot of it. It was like half a jar to like test out a honey cake. You have to make some compromises now. Yeah, exactly.
01:30:44
Speaker
ah something so that's good fun so he's beeping but um um that's okay yeah I think it's gone now. um just I'm trying to build up a bit of a finishing tradition on this podcast, and it's a bit of a it's a really annoying question. Everyone screws up their face when I ask them, so I do apologise. But I think it's a good question for the general public who listen.
01:31:04
Speaker
um What is one thing that about the industry that you wish the general public knew? Not even just the general public, maybe it's students coming into the industry. Sort of one thing that you you just wish people knew about the industry.
01:31:23
Speaker
I kind of want to say, I wish if they did not enjoy the experience that they tell us directly, And we could sort that out on the evening rather than pretend you had a good time and then go off and write a review online.
01:31:42
Speaker
um And also to understand that that review is not written to a building. That review is written to a team who work really, really hard and are really proud of what they do. um And what you write there can make or break their day and also keep them up at night.
01:32:01
Speaker
um Yeah, I think that's what I would say, actually. That's a really good one. I really like that. Most people who spoke about it earlier, but I mean, it got so bad a while ago. I had to delete TripAdvisor from my phone because I was checking in more than Instagram. It was just like, it was just one of those things because it's, it is, it's not great. Like it's not a, it's not a nice thing to deal with because it's just, we just wish you could get a guest advisor. We we could review a guest.
01:32:30
Speaker
Yes. I have said that before. You and I, we're going to create an app. Or if we could like, you're a really difficult guest, and then you could go to their office, rearrange their, wait, get go to their office, arrive 20 minutes after they're finished for the day, rearrange their whole desk, um send a bunch of complaining emails, and then ask them to perform at their best.
01:33:01
Speaker
That would be quite fun actually. That would be fun because that's the same as coming in and your table's changed to a three and by the way someone's not a vegetarian they're actually pescatarian so where's my fish? Yep.
01:33:16
Speaker
oh god i just ah sometimes i can't even get my head around it like we we miss it a lot now because we're not in a so fully functioning restaurant but but we're very lucky we have a lot of direct communication with our groups and our parties that we host um so we kind of avoid that but oh i do not miss that side of it at all but then the opposite opposite end is when you get guests you really get what you do and are super stoked and realise that the chicken farm is just on the road from there or like
Closing Thoughts and Future Aspirations
01:33:48
Speaker
different things like that, that's really cool, that's the whole that's the whole reason we do it. you know
01:33:52
Speaker
um but yeah i think um Yeah, but that's part of the that's part of the game, right? it's great Yeah, for sure. That's the business. Yeah, it's really fun. It's a very magical experience when you've got a table there that really gets it and they're really into it and they want to know what's going on. And you can see in their eyes when you're telling them where it's from and what you've done with it and why you've done that with it. You can see in their eyes that they're fully engaged and it's It's such a magical thing because it's a very personal expression of what you're doing and you know these years of skills that you've honed in to just kind of put this on one plane. It's a beautiful thing I think. Yeah, that's very cool. Awesome.
01:34:32
Speaker
Lovely. Well, thank you so much for coming on. Pleasure. It's been really lovely to actually speak to you properly, not just seriously. And then um hopefully everything goes amazing for you and hopefully we'll get to catch up soon. Maybe we'll ah pop back down to Falmouth and come in and say hello. That'll be great. That'll be awesome. You're welcome anytime. One day when we get a job. exactly. Awesome. Thank you so much for that, mate. Talk to you.