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Ep 158: D&D, David Fix Let Go, Harry Potter Pinball?
25 Plays2 months ago
It's been a minute since we've just talked about everything going on with the pinball industry. We're talking D&D, TWIPys, Harry Potter, Sell In vs Sell through, licensing, and so much more!
Click here for all our social and merch links:
https://linktr.ee/loserkidpinball
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Celebrations
00:00:07
Speaker
Thanks for tuning in to the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast.
00:00:10
Speaker
We are on episode 158.
00:00:11
Speaker
I am Josh Roop.
00:00:12
Speaker
With me, my co-captain.
00:00:13
Speaker
Scott Larson.
00:00:14
Speaker
And that's got to be the first time in almost three months that I did not screw up the intro.
00:00:18
Speaker
Well, it's still good.
00:00:19
Speaker
It's still good, though.
New Pinball Games and Merchandise
00:00:20
Speaker
Yes.
00:00:21
Speaker
And there has been a barrage of games between Evil Dead,
00:00:25
Speaker
Dungeons and Dragons.
00:00:27
Speaker
There's more whispers of games on the horizon.
00:00:30
Speaker
Scott, you just got a Metallica.
00:00:33
Speaker
Where are you getting these games from?
00:00:34
Speaker
Yeah, I'm reaching out to Zach and Nicole Minney at Flipping Out Pinball.
00:00:37
Speaker
They're always good.
00:00:39
Speaker
So Dungeons and Dragons is getting a lot of hot buzz.
00:00:41
Speaker
So if you are interested, definitely reach out, see what they can hook you up with.
00:00:46
Speaker
Um, and they'll be able to set you up.
00:00:48
Speaker
And, but if there's accessories that you're looking for your games too, they can hook you up with that used games too.
00:00:53
Speaker
So always a good supporter of the show.
00:00:56
Speaker
Uh, Zach and Nicole at flipping out pinball.
00:00:58
Speaker
Yes.
00:00:58
Speaker
Thank you to them.
00:01:00
Speaker
Also, I'm really excited to announce Scott.
00:01:03
Speaker
We got new swag up on the store, new swag, uh, baseball jerseys.
00:01:09
Speaker
And these are like legit baseball jerseys.
00:01:11
Speaker
They're comfortable.
00:01:12
Speaker
I've got Scott's at my house.
00:01:14
Speaker
And we got the new baseball caps.
00:01:15
Speaker
These are snapback versions.
00:01:17
Speaker
Neil talked me into it.
00:01:19
Speaker
He sent me a couple of these.
00:01:21
Speaker
they're good.
00:01:22
Speaker
They are good.
00:01:23
Speaker
They're, you know, and so I'm excited for those.
00:01:26
Speaker
We will have an actual promo code.
00:01:28
Speaker
I don't have it right now, but Neil's supposed to get that to me in the next day or two.
00:01:31
Speaker
If you buy a hat and a shirt, you get a percentage off.
00:01:34
Speaker
I'll push it out via the socials, whether you're on YouTube or if you aren't on YouTube, come check us out on YouTube and hit subscribe and all that jazz.
00:01:41
Speaker
Cause we're actually doing, doing really good.
00:01:44
Speaker
And you were telling me the numbers recently.
Listener Appreciation and Transparency
00:01:46
Speaker
I want to say thank you listeners viewers holy crap you gave us a Christmas present I was not expecting in the month of December from all of our content whether you listened or you watched over 60,000 people tuned in holy crap that's not including like posts that we did and people commenting and stuff like that that was solely just listening and watching our content
00:02:11
Speaker
And I would like to thank everybody for inviting us into being, you know, and I guess a, a vicarious friendship because that's how we view this.
00:02:22
Speaker
We talk, this is, you're, you're getting a behind the scenes when Josh and I call and talk to each other.
00:02:27
Speaker
That's pretty much how the show goes.
00:02:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:30
Speaker
So this is a, we feel very blessed that anybody is willing to like hop in and find our conversations meaningful.
00:02:37
Speaker
So we appreciate it whether or not we have guests, which we've had amazing guests.
00:02:41
Speaker
We're using this episode as a catch up episode.
00:02:45
Speaker
But we really appreciate everybody who's reached out to us, the friendships, and,
00:02:50
Speaker
and us being part of your pinball content that you're consuming and enjoying.
00:02:55
Speaker
So thank you so much.
00:02:56
Speaker
It did make me chuckle because there was a comment of like, we're stern shills.
00:03:01
Speaker
And I'm like, oh, finally, our badge.
00:03:03
Speaker
We're shills.
00:03:04
Speaker
But it was funny because they were saying it because of the Seth Davis episode.
00:03:07
Speaker
I'm like, oh, yes, because the previous episode was the president of American.
00:03:11
Speaker
And the episode before that was the president.
00:03:13
Speaker
What is bug from Spooky, the owner, the president?
00:03:17
Speaker
Certainly, certainly the main driver, you know, here's the bottom line.
00:03:22
Speaker
We, we are a, we're a family friendly show.
00:03:26
Speaker
Yep.
00:03:26
Speaker
We try to focus on the negative content.
00:03:29
Speaker
Oh, sorry.
00:03:30
Speaker
Why you edit that?
00:03:31
Speaker
We try to focus on the positive content because.
00:03:35
Speaker
In any hobby, unfortunately, it seems that everything boils down to focusing on the things that we don't like about it.
00:03:44
Speaker
So we really do go out of our way to make sure we emphasize the positive things.
00:03:49
Speaker
Now, are there negative things?
00:03:50
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:03:51
Speaker
And we talk about those too.
00:03:52
Speaker
But if we tend to come across as overly enthusiastic, it's really because we are trying to give you a positive escape to your hobby because that's why you go and have a hobby.
Family-Friendly Content and Humorous Moments
00:04:03
Speaker
And so we, again, we appreciate everybody who's come on.
00:04:06
Speaker
We appreciate all the people who come in and allow us to interview them because that's a big ask.
00:04:12
Speaker
Yeah, it really is.
00:04:13
Speaker
So, so we, we do appreciate all that.
00:04:14
Speaker
Well, not only that, like it, I mean, this last month,
00:04:18
Speaker
was insane this last six weeks like i didn't even think about before before uh bug right but point or people were pointing out we had ray day on after metallica release john borg then joined us yep and we had you know bug from spooky
00:04:35
Speaker
talking about evil dead, we're pretty much on a release, you know, release episode for that, for evil dead.
00:04:41
Speaker
Then, then fix us to come on our show.
00:04:43
Speaker
Sure.
00:04:44
Speaker
And we talked about American and we talked about American and then Seth Davis out of nowhere is like, let's talk.
00:04:50
Speaker
And we're like, you've been working with this.
00:04:52
Speaker
We have been working with it.
00:04:53
Speaker
This, this was just a great time for us to meet up with Seth and to meet him.
00:04:57
Speaker
Cause a lot of people at least know who Gary is.
00:05:00
Speaker
Yep.
00:05:00
Speaker
But Seth is someone who he's,
00:05:03
Speaker
He's newish to our world of the fan content, but he's been involved in some way with pinball licensing marketing toys.
00:05:11
Speaker
So it's really nice to get his perspective.
00:05:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:05:14
Speaker
And I don't think when I was doing our research, there really hasn't been a Seth Davis interview.
00:05:19
Speaker
No.
00:05:19
Speaker
So it was kind of hard to do some research because the man has worked at Stern for three years.
00:05:24
Speaker
But it wasn't.
00:05:25
Speaker
I didn't know what to ask him.
00:05:28
Speaker
And that's the thing.
00:05:28
Speaker
I do appreciate... I did highlight one negative comment.
00:05:33
Speaker
The rest has been pretty much positive.
00:05:35
Speaker
And people wanted to thank us for...
00:05:38
Speaker
Not only being positive, but we were hitting the hard-hitting questions.
00:05:41
Speaker
We ask questions.
00:05:42
Speaker
And we do tell people when they come on, by the way.
00:05:45
Speaker
We said, we will ask all questions.
00:05:47
Speaker
If you want to answer them, that's great.
00:05:49
Speaker
And we're happy to edit things if you don't want to talk about it.
00:05:53
Speaker
But to be blunt, on all the interviews we have done, we've only edited one question.
00:05:59
Speaker
of all the interviews.
00:06:00
Speaker
And so that shows that like, we really are asking the questions and the people who are making the content want to talk to us.
00:06:08
Speaker
They want to talk to you, the listener.
00:06:10
Speaker
They want to tell you about what's going on in pinball.
00:06:13
Speaker
So it's been great.
00:06:15
Speaker
Well, funny behind the scenes.
00:06:16
Speaker
I can't remember.
00:06:17
Speaker
I don't know if you're talking about what I'm thinking about when you said we had to edit one question.
00:06:21
Speaker
It wasn't a question.
00:06:22
Speaker
There was one where it was our interview with Steve Ritchie.
00:06:24
Speaker
And he's like, here's Jack danger.
00:06:26
Speaker
He's working here now.
00:06:28
Speaker
And we're like,
00:06:29
Speaker
Oh, okay.
00:06:31
Speaker
Like I'm just editing the next day.
00:06:33
Speaker
Rumors, but yeah, I got one from Zach Sharp.
00:06:38
Speaker
I'm not going to name everyone.
00:06:40
Speaker
What did you do?
00:06:41
Speaker
Like, Hey, we're weird.
00:06:42
Speaker
Again, we want to keep good relationships with people.
00:06:45
Speaker
We will still ask the hard questions, but we are going to maintain a positive influence on
Twippy Awards and Community Support
00:06:51
Speaker
the hobby.
00:06:51
Speaker
So we knew at least six months before, before everything was announced.
00:06:55
Speaker
It was still fun though.
00:06:56
Speaker
It was great.
00:06:57
Speaker
And that's been years now.
00:06:58
Speaker
So I think we can talk about that.
00:07:00
Speaker
So, but no, that's, it's, it's really insane.
00:07:04
Speaker
Like I said, that is insane.
00:07:05
Speaker
Thank you.
00:07:06
Speaker
I know that we're, we're producing content that you guys want to watch.
00:07:09
Speaker
So we just appreciate you tuning in.
00:07:11
Speaker
Like I said, hit the subscribe button.
00:07:12
Speaker
I mean,
00:07:13
Speaker
60,000 people or 900 subscribers.
00:07:16
Speaker
Granted, we gained 400 just in the month of December.
00:07:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:19
Speaker
So awesome.
00:07:20
Speaker
Again, thank you guys.
00:07:21
Speaker
Okay.
00:07:21
Speaker
Sorry.
00:07:22
Speaker
That's just you two numbers.
00:07:23
Speaker
So we're done with the self congratulations.
00:07:25
Speaker
Okay.
00:07:26
Speaker
Thank you.
00:07:26
Speaker
One thing we do want to talk about is whoopies are, it is whoopie time again.
00:07:30
Speaker
Okay.
00:07:31
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:32
Speaker
So I I'll take this one because I think that I,
00:07:35
Speaker
for better or worse, I impacted the way Twippies went last year.
00:07:39
Speaker
You killed them last year.
00:07:41
Speaker
Way to go.
00:07:41
Speaker
Okay.
00:07:43
Speaker
Let's just say that I thought a few people crossed the line and I thought things were getting a little out of hand for something that should be a positive thing.
00:07:50
Speaker
Now, I'm glad that they were able to work something out last year.
00:07:53
Speaker
They were able to work something and we're glad to be a part of that.
00:07:57
Speaker
We are also excited that they are bringing them back and we just want to, Hey,
00:08:02
Speaker
we want people to support the Twippies because the bottom line is content creators really do care about this.
00:08:09
Speaker
We care about it.
00:08:10
Speaker
Other people care about it.
00:08:11
Speaker
And it does make, it makes the effort feel like you guys are listening to us.
00:08:16
Speaker
And so if you feel so inclined, please go and, and vote, vote your conscience.
00:08:21
Speaker
I don't care.
00:08:22
Speaker
Obviously if you vote for us, we'll appreciate it.
00:08:24
Speaker
But if you feel like, Hey, someone else deserves to vote, go ahead, but just support Colin, make sure that,
00:08:31
Speaker
you're able to get this in, I think by the 20th, right, Josh?
00:08:33
Speaker
Yep.
00:08:34
Speaker
By the 20th.
00:08:34
Speaker
So we're, we're five days away.
00:08:36
Speaker
If this releases tomorrow, we're recording on the 14th.
00:08:39
Speaker
So on the 20th, just have your vote in just support.
00:08:43
Speaker
And we appreciate everything that Colin and other people, all the content creators who are doing things we're appreciating for them to be involved.
00:08:52
Speaker
And we, we just want to keep it positive.
00:08:53
Speaker
So let's keep pinball positive.
00:08:55
Speaker
Well, not only that, like last year, we kind of we went off on the fact that like there's a lot of drama that's created by the Twippy Awards.
00:09:02
Speaker
And so we were kind of like, it's not worth the drama versus what the program is.
00:09:06
Speaker
It was originally when Zach, Zach, many and Jeff Patterson got together and they started doing this and making into a bigger thing.
00:09:14
Speaker
It was an incentive to make content creators feel like they were being recognized for the work they were doing and to help incentivize and making themselves bigger and grow the hobby.
00:09:23
Speaker
And it seemed like the last couple of years, it just become more of drama than it was what it was originally meant to be.
00:09:31
Speaker
So we had suggested shut it down.
00:09:33
Speaker
It's not worth your time.
00:09:34
Speaker
And when you're getting berated behind the scenes, it's easy to agree.
00:09:39
Speaker
Like we probably shouldn't be doing this.
00:09:40
Speaker
Right.
00:09:41
Speaker
And so Colin, you know, Colin and Will decided, let's put the kibosh on it.
00:09:45
Speaker
They asked us just to do the video.
00:09:47
Speaker
They didn't ask us to do what we did.
00:09:50
Speaker
I felt awkward.
00:09:51
Speaker
They just want us to read the results originally for the 2023 twippies.
00:09:55
Speaker
And we were kind of like, no, we're going to at least put some video to this, you know?
00:10:00
Speaker
And so we've got some congratulation stuff, but we thought last year was it.
00:10:04
Speaker
And it was funny because Colin, uh,
00:10:06
Speaker
did the media mixer at Expo and he had so much positive response of, please, we bring back the awards.
00:10:13
Speaker
And even when they got shut down last year, there was a lot of content creators that said, this really means something to us.
00:10:19
Speaker
We should keep this going.
00:10:21
Speaker
And so I applaud Will and Colin and Colin for bringing all these people back together.
00:10:26
Speaker
Making it work.
00:10:27
Speaker
Making it work.
00:10:28
Speaker
Yes.
00:10:28
Speaker
And I know they're doing, it's not the Twippies.
00:10:30
Speaker
I think they're trying to change it to the People's Choice Awards or something like that, which is great.
00:10:35
Speaker
But I think it goes to show that our perception was it wasn't worth the time because it's a lot of drama.
00:10:44
Speaker
And it's great to see that the rest of the industry doesn't feel like that.
00:10:50
Speaker
And so...
00:10:51
Speaker
Okay.
00:10:51
Speaker
And to be blunt, we also feel that, again, the focus is on the positive aspects.
00:10:57
Speaker
And so anything that makes it positive, great.
00:11:00
Speaker
Right now, it feels like there are positive vibes with this award.
00:11:04
Speaker
So please go ahead and go and vote and vote.
00:11:07
Speaker
and participate we appreciate it show your
Dungeons & Dragons Pinball Reactions
00:11:10
Speaker
show your support so and like it like scott said you don't have to vote for us truly i i do i do feel humbled because a lot of the the twippy posts i've been seeing a lot of people like so are we picking pinball show or are we picking loser kids like that's the two options this year i was like if that's how you feel cool like or triple drain i mean come on yeah triple drain is amazing
00:11:30
Speaker
and here's the thing.
00:11:31
Speaker
We do this content for us.
00:11:33
Speaker
I do this because I like to see behind the scenes and I felt like Scott and I have put us, put ourselves in a position.
00:11:38
Speaker
I mean, heck look at the D and D stuff.
00:11:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:41
Speaker
We were talking to Zach before the release.
00:11:44
Speaker
He's like, I'll get it lined up and we'll get you good to go.
00:11:46
Speaker
And on release day, we're recording with Brian, Eddie and Dwight.
00:11:50
Speaker
So, and that a big thank you to Stern for being able to set that up because that was, I know that they try to accommodate us because we live farther away than Chicago and it,
00:12:01
Speaker
The media event was in the middle of the week.
00:12:03
Speaker
And so it would have been a big deal for me to take that time off work to fly out there.
00:12:07
Speaker
And I know Josh couldn't make it either because he had family health issues too.
00:12:12
Speaker
But I'm really grateful that Stern was able to work with us so we could participate in the launch of a product because we love products.
00:12:21
Speaker
It's awesome.
00:12:22
Speaker
We love Stern.
00:12:23
Speaker
We love American.
00:12:24
Speaker
We love...
00:12:25
Speaker
We love CGC.
00:12:27
Speaker
Like, Hey, obviously.
00:12:28
Speaker
So I have flipped around today.
00:12:30
Speaker
If you're watching on YouTube, I usually have my, my stern wall with walls on the side.
00:12:35
Speaker
Now you see the other side.
00:12:36
Speaker
So that now is my CGC wall and I have Metallica and Beatles flanking it.
00:12:42
Speaker
So doing a little bit of a work down here.
00:12:45
Speaker
So it should be a nicer recording area.
00:12:47
Speaker
So you guys should see that soon.
00:12:49
Speaker
So speaking of D and D, I think people have got the justice.
00:12:53
Speaker
Like you said, we let's move on.
00:12:55
Speaker
Let's talk D and D because honestly we've done, you and I haven't sat down and recorded just us since October.
00:13:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:01
Speaker
It's been a while.
00:13:02
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:02
Speaker
It's been a minute.
00:13:03
Speaker
So let's give our thoughts.
00:13:04
Speaker
What's our first impressions of D and D. Okay.
00:13:07
Speaker
We've both.
00:13:08
Speaker
I want to play a game and I know I didn't tell you I was going to do this.
00:13:11
Speaker
Okay.
00:13:12
Speaker
So I'm going to say reaction to D and D and I want you to give me one word.
00:13:22
Speaker
My reaction?
00:13:22
Speaker
You just want one word for it?
00:13:23
Speaker
One word.
00:13:24
Speaker
How would you describe it?
00:13:26
Speaker
Overachieved.
00:13:28
Speaker
Okay.
00:13:29
Speaker
Okay.
00:13:30
Speaker
What's your one word?
00:13:31
Speaker
Surprising.
00:13:33
Speaker
And I want that to be a positive, by the way.
00:13:37
Speaker
Because, and I would argue the same thing when we heard the rumors that everybody else heard that Godzilla was going to be a pinball machine, I legitimately thought, I'll probably skip this one.
00:13:49
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:50
Speaker
Okay.
00:13:51
Speaker
Um, raise your hand if you hate Godzilla.
00:13:54
Speaker
Anybody?
00:13:55
Speaker
No, no, no.
00:13:55
Speaker
Okay.
00:13:56
Speaker
So that was, I was dead wrong on theme alone.
00:13:59
Speaker
Okay.
00:14:00
Speaker
So when I heard dungeons and dragons, I thought, Hey, I like that.
00:14:04
Speaker
I, I, I love the cartoon as a kid, by the way.
00:14:06
Speaker
So just, just FYI, if you're my age and you're watching the cartoon, it was only three years, but they never recorded the finale.
00:14:14
Speaker
But if you go and search YouTube finale, I think it's called Requiem or something.
00:14:21
Speaker
But there are people who found the script and they read it out and did a radio thing of it.
00:14:25
Speaker
And it's really good.
00:14:26
Speaker
So just if you're a fan of that.
00:14:28
Speaker
However, I never played a lot of these role playing games.
00:14:33
Speaker
I played a few of them in med school and single had time.
00:14:38
Speaker
And I had people who were really involved, but it wasn't something that I was readily connected with.
00:14:44
Speaker
And I haven't played that kind of stuff in a long time.
00:14:48
Speaker
Now, come to now and I hear pinball.
00:14:53
Speaker
So I'm a lot more connected with pinball and I hear Dungeons and Dragons is going to be a theme.
00:14:58
Speaker
And I would argue, okay, if you were to ask me a few months ago, how would I describe my reaction to the theme Dungeons and Dragons?
00:15:06
Speaker
I would say puzzling.
00:15:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:09
Speaker
Because I didn't see the overlap of that.
00:15:15
Speaker
I felt the same way about Hot Wheels, by the way.
00:15:17
Speaker
I see it's a huge market.
00:15:19
Speaker
However, how is that going to incorporate into pinball?
00:15:22
Speaker
Yeah.
00:15:26
Speaker
I will stand corrected that the community in Dungeons & Dragons is huge.
00:15:32
Speaker
And they have responded quite positively to this release.
00:15:37
Speaker
And they've also, it has brought new people to pinball who were really unaware about pinball before.
00:15:46
Speaker
Because most of the time, and I've said this before, people ask three questions when they find out you're in pinball.
00:15:51
Speaker
The first question is, they still make those?
00:15:53
Speaker
Second question is, can I come over and play?
00:15:55
Speaker
And the third question is always, how much do they cost?
00:15:59
Speaker
So,
00:16:00
Speaker
When you are able to incorporate a huge fan base who is really motivated to spend money on their product into the community, that's a huge thing.
00:16:10
Speaker
Now add to that Dwight Sullivan, who's a huge gamer, by the way, and that's what Dwight does.
00:16:17
Speaker
So his involvement in bringing that expertise to a pinball machine and the coding is huge.
00:16:24
Speaker
I am super ecstatic for Brian Eddie too, because this layout seems to be a legit hit.
00:16:29
Speaker
Yep.
00:16:30
Speaker
And that is a breath of fresh air because I think a lot of times he was relying on the fan layout, which I think was excellent for the 90s, but I think you need more now.
00:16:41
Speaker
And so for him to incorporate that into this layout is huge.
00:16:46
Speaker
And I'm ecstatic that it's been so well received and the people playing it think it's a lot of fun.
00:16:51
Speaker
Now I have talked for like three minutes straight, Josh.
00:16:53
Speaker
Now your turn.
00:16:55
Speaker
You tell me about Dungeons and Dragons.
00:16:57
Speaker
I'm right there on the same page with you of like, it's a theme that I wasn't excited for.
00:17:02
Speaker
I don't have, like, I do remember playing Dungeons and Dragons occasionally.
00:17:06
Speaker
As a child in my teenage years, it wasn't something that I actually built a character and took with me to a friend's house.
00:17:12
Speaker
It was one of those, like, I went to a friend's house and they just happened to be playing it and they said, here's a piece of paper.
00:17:18
Speaker
Didn't go much more past that.
00:17:20
Speaker
You can play an NPC.
00:17:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:22
Speaker
I'm more of a, like, if I'm going to play those kind of games, I like Diablo.
00:17:25
Speaker
I like playing Balter's Gate.
00:17:27
Speaker
Just those games that are kind of pretty much derivative of Dungeons and Dragons, but it's in video game form.
00:17:33
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:35
Speaker
So I wasn't super excited for this one.
00:17:39
Speaker
And I was, I really was, like you said, surprised.
00:17:43
Speaker
So when they actually showed this thing, I'm like, wow, this is pretty cool.
00:17:48
Speaker
The dungeon, the dragon's head is pretty cool.
00:17:50
Speaker
Then you start hearing the list of people that were involved.
00:17:53
Speaker
And then when we interviewed Dwight, all the voice actors talk about that.
00:17:57
Speaker
I mean, they, they spent a lot of investment to get the, the voice acting into this because you don't really hear it on location.
00:18:07
Speaker
So they knew that they were targeting a home environment for this.
00:18:12
Speaker
If they're going to spend money on like what?
00:18:14
Speaker
11 voice actors, at least you're going to, you're going to be expecting a home environment to hear that.
00:18:21
Speaker
Well, not only that, like,
00:18:23
Speaker
it shocked me how many big names were involved.
00:18:26
Speaker
Kevin Smith, you know, Jay and Silent Bob, I'd brought that up with Dwight and them.
00:18:31
Speaker
You know, Brandon Smalls, one of your favorite guys, he did the, oh, the Brothers.
00:18:36
Speaker
It's losing my mind now.
00:18:37
Speaker
The Venture Brothers.
00:18:39
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:18:40
Speaker
Oh, my gosh.
00:18:41
Speaker
I totally forgot that he did.
00:18:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:42
Speaker
And Metalpocalypse.
00:18:44
Speaker
And, you know, he just... I'm surprised you can say that.
00:18:47
Speaker
Every time I try to say Metalpocalypse,
00:18:49
Speaker
Metalpocalypse?
00:18:51
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know.
00:18:52
Speaker
It's like I can't.
00:18:53
Speaker
I have a stutter.
00:18:54
Speaker
Metalocalypse.
00:18:56
Speaker
That's how I always try.
00:18:57
Speaker
Secretly, I was listening to Dennis and Zach today, and I was practicing in the van the whole night.
00:19:03
Speaker
I can't say metalocalypse.
00:19:07
Speaker
Now I'm hearing you and I'm messing.
00:19:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:09
Speaker
Okay.
00:19:11
Speaker
Gerard way.
00:19:11
Speaker
That is a big name for my teenage years.
00:19:14
Speaker
He's the main singer.
00:19:15
Speaker
My chemical romance.
00:19:16
Speaker
He also did the umbrella Academy, which was a comic book that then turned into a TV series.
00:19:20
Speaker
He's done plenty of stuff with Marvel and whatnot.
00:19:23
Speaker
We got morph.
00:19:24
Speaker
We got morph.
00:19:26
Speaker
I mean, there's a lot of, I joked that Joe Manginelli,
00:19:30
Speaker
Is that how you say his name?
00:19:31
Speaker
He's the dancer dude, right?
00:19:33
Speaker
Who married Sofia Varga or something like that?
00:19:35
Speaker
I remember him from How I Met Your Mother.
00:19:36
Speaker
He was always like Marshall's best friend.
00:19:41
Speaker
I just remember him as the dude who was on Magic Mike or something.
00:19:46
Speaker
There's so many people that are involved.
00:19:51
Speaker
It made me think of a couple things.
00:19:52
Speaker
Wow, there's a lot of stuff they've thrown into this game.
00:19:56
Speaker
The teams that Dwight was talking about...
00:19:59
Speaker
Here's my concern of this is like, this game is amazing.
00:20:04
Speaker
Like it really, they've really went above and beyond.
00:20:08
Speaker
My question is though, is it on par with what Elwyn usually releases?
00:20:14
Speaker
If that is the case, like if you feel like Jaws is at the same place as what Dungeons and Dragons is, gameplay wise, and granted, I'm comparing two games where like Elwyn's kind of score-based, he rewards you for playing score.
00:20:27
Speaker
This is more of an adventure.
00:20:28
Speaker
You're going through a story.
00:20:30
Speaker
You're trying to get to the endings.
00:20:32
Speaker
It almost is like the score doesn't really... It plays into the gameplay, right?
00:20:36
Speaker
But it doesn't really affect the drive of why you're playing this game.
00:20:39
Speaker
You're playing it for the adventure, right?
00:20:40
Speaker
You can get scores.
00:20:43
Speaker
However, it seems like this code is intentionally driven so you will go through and complete the quests.
00:20:55
Speaker
You want to level up.
00:20:56
Speaker
You want to do different things.
00:20:57
Speaker
You want to fight different dragons.
Stern's Production and Calculated Risks
00:21:00
Speaker
There's basically three wizard modes.
00:21:03
Speaker
Ultimate wizard.
00:21:05
Speaker
That tells me that they made this, at least the philosophy, a lot closer to a video game.
00:21:14
Speaker
while incorporating pinball as the primary driver.
00:21:17
Speaker
Yep.
00:21:18
Speaker
So here's my concern.
00:21:20
Speaker
Dwight told us and Eddie told us on the interview that they've, they've thrown so many people in this game, right?
00:21:26
Speaker
Elizabeth Gieske, who did the mode, some of the modes and jaws.
00:21:29
Speaker
I love scars.
00:21:30
Speaker
It's very memorable.
00:21:31
Speaker
I love that she's on D and D because I think she can bring a lot to the table with modes.
00:21:36
Speaker
Right.
00:21:36
Speaker
Mm hmm.
00:21:37
Speaker
they talked about the animation team they used pretty much everyone in stern plus they hired what they say five to seven more outside of store because they had a lot more video content to generate correct and so it was starting to shock me how many people were involved with this project and the thing is is i feel like this project is where pinball should be right when we're releasing
00:22:00
Speaker
And I know that it's funny because... They had extra time.
00:22:04
Speaker
They did have extra time.
00:22:06
Speaker
They did not confirm or deny whether the dragon mech was actually what was dragging them behind.
00:22:10
Speaker
Sure.
00:22:11
Speaker
If it were, though, if it were, I would argue that's a good reason to delay the game.
00:22:19
Speaker
Third thing on that mech, by the way, we have had confirmation that is not the mech Keith Owen was talking about.
00:22:25
Speaker
Yeah, it's a different mech.
00:22:26
Speaker
So that tells me Stern is the...
00:22:31
Speaker
Like they are the toy guys.
00:22:33
Speaker
Like they make cool stuff.
00:22:35
Speaker
And okay.
00:22:37
Speaker
When people come over to my house, the, one of the first games they always play is medieval madness.
00:22:42
Speaker
And what do they always do?
00:22:43
Speaker
Like, do you think medieval madness would be half the game?
00:22:46
Speaker
It is without the, the castle.
00:22:49
Speaker
No, there's no way.
00:22:50
Speaker
And that's actually, that's a visual aspect, but the code is it's, it's different.
00:22:56
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:57
Speaker
Like you could, you could just put up a standup castle that just like has a flasher on it and it wouldn't be the same game.
00:23:03
Speaker
So that tells me that that's part of the experience of pinball.
00:23:06
Speaker
Well, the other thing too is, is let's be honest.
00:23:09
Speaker
Like we're talking to Seth Davis.
00:23:12
Speaker
They're talking about vault, you know, putting these games in a vault.
00:23:15
Speaker
They say Deadpool, which gets good boosts.
00:23:18
Speaker
It's, it's still selling good.
00:23:19
Speaker
Star Wars, which is one of the top selling games ever.
00:23:23
Speaker
Shocking.
00:23:23
Speaker
Which is funny because like are putting Star Wars in a vault.
00:23:26
Speaker
Yeah, absolute shocker.
00:23:28
Speaker
I mean, we're talking games that are guaranteed sellers, right?
00:23:33
Speaker
Like Iron Maiden still sells when they make another batch.
00:23:37
Speaker
They only can make it once a year, but they still sell, right?
00:23:41
Speaker
So when you're telling me you're getting rid of those titles in favor of Dungeons & Dragons, I'm a little like, are we doing this right?
00:23:51
Speaker
After seeing this game, you're doing it right.
00:23:53
Speaker
My, okay.
00:23:54
Speaker
I wish we could have went to media.
00:23:55
Speaker
They're certainly making a calculated risk.
00:23:58
Speaker
Yes.
00:23:58
Speaker
Calculated risk.
00:23:59
Speaker
Now they could be wrong.
00:24:00
Speaker
They could be right.
00:24:01
Speaker
But Stern's also in the position that they can make that risk.
00:24:05
Speaker
I think this release has went way better than any other.
00:24:08
Speaker
Well, not any other release in recent Stern history, but I think they're starting to learn like the manicured play.
00:24:19
Speaker
video for the premium.
00:24:21
Speaker
Yes.
00:24:21
Speaker
Really rated one where they made sure that they had a good presentation because that means so much more than four drunk guys playing a game and breaking shots.
00:24:33
Speaker
The five minute video of this is our game.
00:24:36
Speaker
Yep.
00:24:36
Speaker
You know, George Gomez going off about the highlights with Eddie and Dwight with their excitement.
00:24:43
Speaker
I might tune our own horn right now, but to have a podcast like us come out to give an hour plus long content of a deep dive of this game.
00:24:51
Speaker
That way people can understand what's going on.
00:24:53
Speaker
Oh, like, so between all this, it felt like just the perfect storm.
00:24:59
Speaker
And then the media goes out on Tuesday after Friday release and they play this game and people are just smiling while playing this game.
00:25:06
Speaker
And it's just, it's, it's all done so well.
00:25:12
Speaker
I just, my thought process is I'm getting a new game this year because I, Foo Fighters is probably leaving.
00:25:18
Speaker
I, I'm, I'm looking at this game.
00:25:20
Speaker
I'm looking at it.
00:25:22
Speaker
I'm waiting.
00:25:22
Speaker
I'm waiting for L1s in April.
00:25:24
Speaker
Sure.
00:25:24
Speaker
And I'm either going to go L1 or D&D.
00:25:27
Speaker
That's, that's kind of where I'm at this point, which is, which is crazy because I mean, if, if Pokemon is really a thing, my kids aren't going to say no to that.
00:25:36
Speaker
So,
00:25:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:37
Speaker
And you know what?
00:25:37
Speaker
You can play Pokemon.
00:25:38
Speaker
That's fine.
00:25:39
Speaker
That's not my thing.
00:25:40
Speaker
Not my bag, baby.
00:25:41
Speaker
How about you buy it and then I'll just borrow it for a little while.
00:25:44
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:45
Speaker
No, my Deadpool is on loan right now.
00:25:48
Speaker
So back to my concern, though, like D&D, if this is throwing everything they've got at Stern plus hiring people outside of Stern to get to this level.
00:25:57
Speaker
Does it set the bar too high?
00:25:59
Speaker
Like, L1's next.
00:26:00
Speaker
So I'm going to say L1 can hit the bar with just Team L1.
00:26:03
Speaker
L1's automatic.
00:26:05
Speaker
Yeah, Team L1, Rick Nagel, L1.
00:26:08
Speaker
That team can just...
00:26:10
Speaker
knock it out of the park every time.
00:26:12
Speaker
And so I'm not worried about them, but what does it mean going forward for other releases?
00:26:17
Speaker
It's the expectation high.
00:26:20
Speaker
I will put that out.
00:26:21
Speaker
And unfortunately for X-Men, it was released and it started really hot.
00:26:28
Speaker
And unfortunately the depth isn't there right now.
00:26:33
Speaker
I think it will be in,
00:26:35
Speaker
I will point out Deadpool was very similar.
00:26:38
Speaker
And so you're still in good company by saying that, Hey, if you release and people are like, well, I mean, the code's not quite real done.
00:26:47
Speaker
Now it has two strikes against them.
00:26:49
Speaker
One, it was moved way up.
00:26:52
Speaker
And so that, that's not really fair that, that we can't expect it to be a high thing.
00:26:58
Speaker
However,
00:26:59
Speaker
you're going to be comparing the other strikers.
00:27:02
Speaker
You're going to be comparing with other games at their release point.
00:27:06
Speaker
And so when you have that and you also have Metallica over my shoulder, which is obviously a complete code, or at least as near complete as you can because it's a finished game.
00:27:19
Speaker
You also have...
00:27:21
Speaker
with Dungeons & Dragons coming out with a deep code set to start with.
00:27:28
Speaker
That's hard.
00:27:28
Speaker
So people are going to expect that from now on.
00:27:31
Speaker
And like I said, I don't expect code to be complete when a release.
00:27:35
Speaker
I do want some flexibility.
00:27:36
Speaker
It needs to be full enough, though.
00:27:39
Speaker
Yes.
00:27:40
Speaker
Like Ellen said, though, with Iron Maiden, it pretty much came out 1.0 code, and there wasn't much that they could do to change it.
00:27:47
Speaker
They said the problem was it was so far along that they just...
00:27:50
Speaker
It is what it is.
00:27:52
Speaker
But with the other games moving forward after that, and they all, every software designer is like required.
00:27:57
Speaker
I remember at the, our media day, we went in May.
00:28:00
Speaker
They're required to have 7.5 when they release, or whatever it is, or 7.3.
00:28:04
Speaker
0.75.
00:28:04
Speaker
That's the thing is code's subjective.
00:28:07
Speaker
So it's up to the coder.
00:28:09
Speaker
Yeah, this is 7.3.
00:28:10
Speaker
Yeah, it's far enough.
00:28:12
Speaker
But people playing will know, no, this is not where it should be.
00:28:16
Speaker
You can't fake it.
00:28:19
Speaker
Because people who play enough pinball are going to recognize how complete a code is.
00:28:25
Speaker
And a lot of people, they're forgiving, by the way, they're forgiving.
00:28:28
Speaker
If they're like, Hey, things change.
00:28:31
Speaker
I'm Dwight completely rewrote game of Thrones code.
00:28:34
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:34
Speaker
So they are forgiving.
00:28:36
Speaker
However, there really is an expectation of making a certain level when you release a game.
00:28:42
Speaker
And you know what, if you're paying six to $13,000 for a game, that's a reasonable expectation.
00:28:49
Speaker
I agree.
00:28:50
Speaker
Well, and people saying that they need to, you know,
00:28:54
Speaker
they're like, well, with X-Men, you know, yeah, it stinks.
00:28:58
Speaker
They got it out and it wasn't ready, but it can cook for the next year and then it'll start selling in a year.
00:29:02
Speaker
Honestly, most of your, your big sales come from day one.
00:29:05
Speaker
Like that first two weeks is vital.
00:29:08
Speaker
And so it's unusual.
00:29:10
Speaker
It's unusual to have a second wind on a game.
00:29:13
Speaker
It really is.
00:29:14
Speaker
I think bond is kind of a, um, uh, exception to the rule.
00:29:20
Speaker
uh stranger things at some point too however stranger things was also it was very similar to attack from mars and because it was rare enough because they didn't make a lot of them then that also contributed to it i think also like gardens of the galaxy so there are exceptions to the rules there are i will say eventually most games get there yep so overall i'm impressed what do you think scott
00:29:46
Speaker
I would give a thumbs up and I'm certainly excited to get one.
00:29:50
Speaker
And I, I do want to have one in my home so I can explore it because there, there's a lot of stuff that I cannot do on location or I can't experience the way I want to on location.
00:30:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:03
Speaker
Let's, I think we've talked enough about D and D let's, let's, we got plenty on this list.
Challenges at American Pinball
00:30:08
Speaker
Let's talk about,
00:30:10
Speaker
the hot interview, it was not our most listened to or watched interview, but it was probably the most talked about.
00:30:16
Speaker
The David Fix interview, I think between
00:30:20
Speaker
the questions we asked and the responses we got, there was some pretty big fireworks, fireworks, fireworks.
00:30:27
Speaker
Um, can I want to give a little, some background may lift the curtain a little bit on this one too.
00:30:32
Speaker
Okay.
00:30:33
Speaker
So like I said, David fixed it.
00:30:34
Speaker
Call us or he messaged me and said, Hey, we need to do this interview.
00:30:39
Speaker
I said, okay, like we can have you on and I'm not going to lie.
00:30:43
Speaker
American pinball.
00:30:45
Speaker
The numbers aren't great when we have David fix on.
00:30:47
Speaker
So I was like, I would say that it's, uh,
00:30:50
Speaker
It makes sense anytime you have the monsters of sales out there.
00:30:55
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:56
Speaker
Like people are going to naturally go toward content that is catered around big sellers, right?
00:31:03
Speaker
American pinball is not a big seller.
00:31:05
Speaker
And so the numbers do reflect that in our content.
00:31:09
Speaker
So I was a little hesitant, but I said, sure, you can come on.
00:31:13
Speaker
And I think this was on like a Tuesday, I want to say.
00:31:16
Speaker
And he's like, okay, we need to, I need this out by like Friday.
00:31:21
Speaker
And I said, okay, like, okay, let's do it.
00:31:25
Speaker
Sure.
00:31:25
Speaker
When do you want to record?
00:31:26
Speaker
And we all kind of agreed Thursday at lunchtime.
00:31:29
Speaker
I think it was, or I think we took a late lunch.
00:31:32
Speaker
It was like one or two.
00:31:33
Speaker
And so I kind of burned the midnight oil and got this interview on,
00:31:37
Speaker
up and going six o'clock Friday morning, our time Mountain Standard Time, seven, seven and eight moving on.
00:31:46
Speaker
And it was kind of funny because there was such a rush to get this episode out.
00:31:50
Speaker
I get a message from fix like an hour after release.
00:31:53
Speaker
He's like, yeah, I need you to like retract it.
00:31:55
Speaker
I was like,
00:31:58
Speaker
hold for a bit and we're like it's been out most people auto down i'm like i don't know if we can because once we put into the rs rss feed like youtube i can set it to private or unlisted or wherever it is and it hides it you know but with rss feed once it pushes out it can't pull it back right
00:32:19
Speaker
I don't have control.
00:32:20
Speaker
It's on your phone.
00:32:21
Speaker
It's on your phone.
00:32:22
Speaker
And if people download it, and so that's why some people are like, well, I can't actually see the episode.
00:32:29
Speaker
What's going on?
00:32:31
Speaker
But some people are like, I can listen to it just fine.
00:32:32
Speaker
That's what was happening.
00:32:33
Speaker
I put everything on pause in hopes that
00:32:36
Speaker
legit you did that for like an hour and then he basically said yeah he's like too many people have heard it yeah just just release the you know release the hounds so yeah we released the kraken uh it just such a wild interview especially now that like
00:32:56
Speaker
I don't know what was going on behind the scenes.
00:32:58
Speaker
I don't know why it was like, hold off, things have changed here.
00:33:00
Speaker
And I was like, what does that even mean to me?
00:33:01
Speaker
You know what I'm saying?
00:33:03
Speaker
It's a peak, though, at these are real companies with real issues and real production goals.
00:33:10
Speaker
And there are things that they need to meet to keep the lights on.
00:33:16
Speaker
Well, last week we got the news that Fix had been let go.
00:33:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:20
Speaker
I think he's listening back to the interview now.
00:33:22
Speaker
I think he knew he was on the chopping block and that's why he came out.
00:33:27
Speaker
Which is fine.
00:33:28
Speaker
And I actually, I did reach out to him.
00:33:30
Speaker
I haven't heard back as of this recording, but I did reach out because, Hey, we're still about positivity and making sure that everything's okay and everything's good with him.
00:33:39
Speaker
I do have one answer to the question.
00:33:41
Speaker
One question we asked.
00:33:43
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:43
Speaker
So we asked, because Fix talked about Polycade a lot.
00:33:45
Speaker
I'm like, what the heck with Polycade?
00:33:48
Speaker
Why is this a thing now?
00:33:50
Speaker
Like, where is this Polycade thing coming from?
00:33:52
Speaker
So come to find out.
00:33:53
Speaker
You can look this up on LinkedIn.
00:33:55
Speaker
I did not.
00:33:55
Speaker
This is not like secret information or whatnot.
00:33:57
Speaker
Right.
00:33:58
Speaker
So the gentleman that took Fix's position, Ron Lindman.
00:34:02
Speaker
I hope I said that right.
00:34:03
Speaker
Ron Lindman.
00:34:04
Speaker
You can Google him, whatever you want to do.
00:34:06
Speaker
He came from Polycade.
00:34:08
Speaker
He's actually only worked at American since February.
00:34:10
Speaker
And now he has David Fix's position and they're producing polycade.
00:34:15
Speaker
So I'm assuming they're at least the middleman for polycade, you know?
00:34:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:19
Speaker
So it's now I will say this is okay.
00:34:23
Speaker
This is American pinball 4.0.
00:34:24
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:26
Speaker
And I, I hope that they find their lane because all, you know,
00:34:33
Speaker
Pinball is good.
00:34:34
Speaker
All, you know, the, the tide rises all ships, so to speak.
00:34:38
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:38
Speaker
And I'm excited when I hear about what the next game is likely going to be and what the likely layout is going to be.
00:34:47
Speaker
I think it would be a big step up for them if they can get to that point.
00:34:50
Speaker
And I'm just hopeful they can.
00:34:52
Speaker
Well, let's talk about the next game.
00:34:54
Speaker
We're not going to give names or details or whatnot, but there has been a couple of questions that I keep hearing that are legitimate questions.
00:35:01
Speaker
If they release this game,
00:35:04
Speaker
Are people going to buy it?
00:35:04
Speaker
Because you fired everyone that worked at American.
00:35:07
Speaker
There's already been a question of quality.
00:35:09
Speaker
I definitely learned that after we recorded an episode.
00:35:12
Speaker
There was people recording videos and tagging us in it saying, I bought an American game.
00:35:17
Speaker
I've had no little support.
00:35:20
Speaker
On the episode, Fix just said, just call us.
00:35:22
Speaker
I've tried calling.
00:35:23
Speaker
No one's answering.
00:35:25
Speaker
I'm frustrated.
00:35:26
Speaker
And so it was like, oh, this is a sore spot that I was not aware of.
00:35:32
Speaker
And hey, but that legit that it now I have heard that about almost every manufacturer.
00:35:40
Speaker
I would say more.
00:35:42
Speaker
I've heard it with American pinball.
00:35:44
Speaker
Yeah.
00:35:44
Speaker
And there are other companies that tend to have more glitches.
00:35:49
Speaker
I'll just put it this way.
00:35:50
Speaker
If you go to an arcade, just look at the games that are on and the games that are off.
00:35:55
Speaker
Yeah.
00:35:55
Speaker
And you're going to see which ones are more stable because people want stable games.
00:36:02
Speaker
Well, and the other thing too is after we heard Fix was gone, I didn't dare to call him to be like, hey, I need, I want a number to the new guy essentially, you know?
00:36:12
Speaker
So I've tried to get a hold of American.
00:36:14
Speaker
They're not answering their phones.
00:36:16
Speaker
You type zero.
00:36:17
Speaker
I know it's different today.
00:36:18
Speaker
I checked it again today.
00:36:19
Speaker
But last week, if you press zero for operator, it would tell you invalid option.
00:36:23
Speaker
If you did it twice, it would hang up on you.
00:36:25
Speaker
That's not a great sign.
00:36:27
Speaker
And so it's like, whatever.
00:36:30
Speaker
Hopefully they're in a rebooting mode and hopefully this is, this is new news, right?
00:36:36
Speaker
I'm hoping they can figure out what they want to do.
00:36:40
Speaker
Like I said, there's a lot of information we were given behind the scenes.
00:36:43
Speaker
We're not going to relay it here, but I will tell you one thing that we were told that we could say American pinball will release their next game, whether they like it or not, they're contractually obligated to release the next game.
00:36:57
Speaker
It's all I can tell you.
00:36:58
Speaker
So all these people are saying, well, will it release?
00:37:01
Speaker
No, it has to release.
00:37:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:03
Speaker
And you can.
00:37:04
Speaker
Okay.
00:37:05
Speaker
They're supposed to release it.
00:37:06
Speaker
I guess I'll put it that way.
00:37:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:08
Speaker
I guess there'd just be more lawsuits on top of current lawsuits they have.
00:37:12
Speaker
But it does, I will say, it sounds cool.
00:37:16
Speaker
It really does.
00:37:17
Speaker
And all indications that Ryan did a good job on the design.
00:37:21
Speaker
Now, how they're able to take it.
00:37:23
Speaker
Don's seen it.
00:37:24
Speaker
Carrie Hardy's now seen it.
00:37:26
Speaker
Yeah, we've seen it.
00:37:29
Speaker
Wink, wink.
00:37:30
Speaker
So don't ask us.
00:37:33
Speaker
We're not going to tell you about it, even behind the scenes.
00:37:35
Speaker
But point being is, is everyone that I've talked to that has seen this game or had hands on this game has legitimately said that like this game can pull them out of the rut they're in.
00:37:45
Speaker
And I totally agree.
00:37:49
Speaker
So yeah, by far their best looking layout.
00:37:51
Speaker
My concern is I just, I think you need to hire back Ryan McQuaid.
00:37:55
Speaker
Like the dude that designed it should be on the line, helping those people had to assemble, assemble that game.
00:38:00
Speaker
Yep.
00:38:01
Speaker
Who's coding it.
00:38:03
Speaker
That's what they need to figure out, right?
00:38:05
Speaker
They need to figure out the code.
00:38:06
Speaker
They need to figure out like tweaking, you know, fine tuning the design.
00:38:10
Speaker
Now we do know designs can be fine tuned without the primary person on.
00:38:16
Speaker
We know that Elvira does.
00:38:19
Speaker
You know, the house of horrors was, was not fine tuned by Dennis.
00:38:24
Speaker
So it can be done.
00:38:26
Speaker
It would be nice though, if Ryan were able to be brought back into the fold and so he could fix that.
00:38:31
Speaker
Yep.
00:38:32
Speaker
Get, get bound back working on code.
00:38:35
Speaker
I just, it's really weird that you, if you're contractually obligated to make a game, you fire your whole team that makes the game.
00:38:43
Speaker
Well, okay.
00:38:43
Speaker
Now they weren't fired.
00:38:45
Speaker
They were laid off.
00:38:46
Speaker
They were laid off.
00:38:47
Speaker
Well, I will say that is the difference.
00:38:50
Speaker
There is a big difference between fired and laid off because laid off implies that the revenue stream is not there to be able to maintain their employment.
00:39:01
Speaker
And that's always been...
00:39:04
Speaker
everything I've said about American pinball.
00:39:06
Speaker
Like I know how basic business works and you need to look at revenue in revenue out or sorry, revenue in cost, which is clues fixed costs.
00:39:19
Speaker
Like you actually have to make those balance at some level.
00:39:22
Speaker
Yep.
00:39:23
Speaker
I agree.
00:39:24
Speaker
I don't know if there's anything else more we can say about American.
00:39:27
Speaker
I am intrigued to see where they're going to go over these next few months.
00:39:31
Speaker
I'm excited for the next game.
00:39:32
Speaker
Like, seriously, I want to play this game, get my hands on it.
00:39:36
Speaker
I just think that your biggest hurdle right now, like Ron Mukesh, if you're listening,
00:39:43
Speaker
I hope you are.
00:39:44
Speaker
Your biggest hurdle right now is people don't have faith in your customer service.
00:39:48
Speaker
Right.
00:39:48
Speaker
You're going to have to fix that.
00:39:50
Speaker
Correct.
00:39:51
Speaker
And you need to do it now because when you release a product, people are going to want to say, oh, if it breaks, because pinball is mechanical, it does break.
00:40:00
Speaker
They're going to feel comfortable with people being able to answer phones and say, hey, I need you to do this, this, and this to fix it.
00:40:05
Speaker
And young companies, they are more prone to reliability issues.
00:40:12
Speaker
But like Spooky's, I mean, they've been around for a decade.
00:40:15
Speaker
They're still a smaller operation.
00:40:16
Speaker
They're getting better.
00:40:17
Speaker
Like they are getting better.
00:40:18
Speaker
They've had issues with reliability too.
00:40:20
Speaker
However, they've also been responsive.
00:40:23
Speaker
Exactly.
00:40:24
Speaker
They've been responsive.
00:40:25
Speaker
They've been very good at that.
00:40:26
Speaker
And they're constantly working on their quality.
00:40:30
Speaker
Yeah.
00:40:30
Speaker
Right?
00:40:30
Speaker
Like obviously there was a shift from Rick and Morty to Halloween.
00:40:35
Speaker
And we can all agree upon that.
00:40:37
Speaker
Right?
00:40:38
Speaker
Halloween was amazing.
00:40:39
Speaker
There was a bug at one point in time in Halloween that if you selected a mode that was not in the game yet, it freaked out the game.
00:40:46
Speaker
All the coils and everything would fire.
00:40:48
Speaker
And then the game would just start.
00:40:49
Speaker
Like, I know one guy that had the game and did that.
00:40:52
Speaker
And he's like, I just want to see what happens.
00:40:53
Speaker
And he's like, oh, the game's going wild, right?
00:40:56
Speaker
And he's like, it was funny until the game started smoking.
00:40:58
Speaker
Then he shut it off.
00:41:00
Speaker
So they're not having those issues with Spooky.
00:41:04
Speaker
Spooky's done a lot better and they continually improve.
00:41:07
Speaker
And so people are willing to give them a pass.
00:41:11
Speaker
on, uh, you know, okay.
00:41:13
Speaker
They're willing to be optimistic about the direction of the company, but you need to start a trend line so people can be optimistic about your company.
00:41:23
Speaker
And just like bug said in our interview, you're going to have issues that it just is what it is, but they're taking those quality issues they've had in the past or they're learning from, and they're applying them to new games and it shows.
00:41:34
Speaker
people aren't going to want to do that with a company that's not even responding or acknowledging the issue.
00:41:39
Speaker
So thanks.
00:41:40
Speaker
Customer service is a big deal.
00:41:42
Speaker
And that's why people go with flipping out pinball because they got the best customer service in the industry.
00:41:47
Speaker
And so Greg bone, good man.
00:41:49
Speaker
Yes.
00:41:50
Speaker
He's man.
00:41:51
Speaker
He's messaged me.
00:41:53
Speaker
I can't remember what game I was even having an issue on, but he took something out of his own game and sent it to me because it was on that order.
00:42:00
Speaker
Yep.
00:42:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:42:01
Speaker
So,
00:42:02
Speaker
You want to talk about the rumor of Harry Potter coming from, this is, everyone else is talking
High Expectations for Harry Potter Pinball
00:42:07
Speaker
about it.
00:42:07
Speaker
I'm like, is there anything we have to add?
00:42:09
Speaker
Joe Cam and Cal said it out.
00:42:11
Speaker
Okay.
00:42:12
Speaker
What are you hoping for?
00:42:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:42:15
Speaker
Yeah.
00:42:15
Speaker
Maybe, maybe not.
00:42:17
Speaker
Is it even?
00:42:17
Speaker
Yeah.
00:42:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:42:19
Speaker
Okay.
00:42:19
Speaker
So what are you expecting with Harry Potter?
00:42:23
Speaker
That's the, it's a two part question.
00:42:25
Speaker
What are you expecting with it?
00:42:26
Speaker
And is it possible for them to meet the expectation?
00:42:32
Speaker
I will, I will frame this question by saying I am the biggest star Wars fan, at least early star Wars, you know, from when I was a kid.
00:42:42
Speaker
Okay.
00:42:44
Speaker
So my expectations were sky high.
00:42:45
Speaker
Okay.
00:42:46
Speaker
I saw Stern Star Wars and I was in on an LE and I said, I'm out.
00:42:53
Speaker
I didn't buy it.
00:42:54
Speaker
Yeah.
00:42:55
Speaker
So that is the context of my question.
00:42:57
Speaker
Josh, I know you have like a, a Sharpie tattoo on your forehead of a lightning bolt.
00:43:04
Speaker
So I do not tell me about Harry Potter.
00:43:07
Speaker
Okay.
00:43:08
Speaker
I enjoy Harry Potter.
00:43:09
Speaker
I'm not going to dress up in my wizard robes.
00:43:11
Speaker
I'm not going to go.
00:43:13
Speaker
I've enjoyed the movies.
00:43:14
Speaker
I've enjoyed the books.
00:43:15
Speaker
I don't know if I've watched.
00:43:16
Speaker
I've not read the books more than once.
00:43:18
Speaker
I've not seen the movies more than twice a piece.
00:43:22
Speaker
It is something that means a lot to my children.
00:43:24
Speaker
My eldest has listened to the books on Audible every night since he was like seven, and he's 14 now.
00:43:31
Speaker
He loves those books.
00:43:33
Speaker
When he finishes another book, his go back to is Harry Potter.
00:43:38
Speaker
I think I'm right there with you.
00:43:39
Speaker
I think the problem is the license is so huge.
00:43:43
Speaker
I've tempered my expectations because I'm like, there's no way they can meet every expectation of this franchise.
00:43:53
Speaker
It's just, it's impossible.
00:43:55
Speaker
So my, I do, and I don't have concerns because like looking at star Wars, like you said, it's star Wars is one of the top three selling games of all time for Stern.
00:44:04
Speaker
Right.
00:44:05
Speaker
Um, then I think just having the license alone for Harry Potter is going to be a smash hit for JJP.
00:44:11
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:13
Speaker
And criticism aside, like they really, like, honestly, if this is, if this license is a biggest seller as star Wars or bigger, they don't need to, it doesn't matter what the criticism is because they're going to sell like hotcakes regardless.
00:44:25
Speaker
So however, it's a way of setting themselves up for future releases though.
00:44:31
Speaker
Yes.
00:44:31
Speaker
So if you get Harry Potter and you're a huge Harry Potter fan,
00:44:38
Speaker
And they meet those expectations.
00:44:39
Speaker
You're going to say, hey, what are they doing on the next game?
00:44:43
Speaker
If you're a huge Harry Potter fan and you still buy it, but you're disappointed when you buy it, it's going to affect their next game.
00:44:51
Speaker
Here's my wishes.
00:44:53
Speaker
First off, we've said this before.
00:44:56
Speaker
We've said multiple times on the episode, it is nothing against Jersey Jack.
00:45:00
Speaker
They're just out of my price range.
00:45:02
Speaker
I cannot buy into a box.
00:45:03
Speaker
So I'm not your target audience.
00:45:06
Speaker
But...
00:45:08
Speaker
if this is Eric, I love Eric's designs.
00:45:10
Speaker
I think we need to get back Eric to pirates of the Caribbean days.
00:45:14
Speaker
I feel like there was a lot of innovation there.
00:45:17
Speaker
Don't get me wrong.
00:45:17
Speaker
I love Godfather.
00:45:19
Speaker
Um, I love his other games.
00:45:20
Speaker
He's made guns and roses.
00:45:22
Speaker
I think there's a lot of cool things in those games, but pirates just kind of hit on a different level, right?
00:45:29
Speaker
There was some really cool mix.
00:45:32
Speaker
Um, there was an enthusiasm there for that design that I haven't felt.
00:45:38
Speaker
And so for a little bit, and it was, I hope we can probably overly ambitious.
00:45:42
Speaker
I, I, I will, the criticism for pirates for me is it was overly ambitious and maybe what, what I would point out is that,
00:45:56
Speaker
killed sales on pirates of the Caribbean because the first feature that they talked about was a triple spinning disc, which really in the grand scheme of things is not a big deal.
00:46:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:46:07
Speaker
But it is a cool feature, but it's not really the layout of the game, the rules of the game, the flow of the game.
00:46:15
Speaker
But when that was the first thing you were touting and then you end up taking it out of the game and
00:46:23
Speaker
I think people were rightly concerned.
00:46:29
Speaker
But now, I still argue they've finished the code.
00:46:34
Speaker
Re-up the license, make a thousand of these, and you will sell them.
00:46:38
Speaker
You're a company.
00:46:40
Speaker
You will make money, sell these things.
00:46:42
Speaker
You're a better company.
00:46:44
Speaker
You can fix whatever issues there were with that big design.
00:46:50
Speaker
So my point being is just with Harry Potter, I think a lot of people need to temper their expectations.
00:46:58
Speaker
I think if this does sell like hotcakes, like it is, then I'm not worried about picking up one later for cheaper.
00:47:05
Speaker
Because Jersey Jack Pinball has proved when they have small runs, their games retain their value.
00:47:10
Speaker
When they have big runs, they drop in value.
00:47:14
Speaker
So, well, any company to be blunt, any company will be that.
00:47:17
Speaker
So sell your 5,000 Harry Potters and awesome.
00:47:22
Speaker
I'll pick one up in six months to a year at eight grand, nine grand.
00:47:27
Speaker
I am hoping I'm optimistic because Eric obviously is a seasoned veteran at this point.
00:47:35
Speaker
He will likely do something that is,
00:47:40
Speaker
A mix of experimentation but safety because you still want this game to be played a lot.
00:47:48
Speaker
You want some level of Steve Ritchie flow in there.
00:47:53
Speaker
You're going to want that.
00:47:54
Speaker
Steve is actually at Jersey Jack now.
00:47:56
Speaker
And so for him to be able to
00:48:00
Speaker
to help mentor flow.
00:48:02
Speaker
Cause that's the one thing that Jersey Jack games have not had aside from Elton John.
00:48:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:48:08
Speaker
So if there's a way that Steve Ritchie can, Godfather shot pretty well.
00:48:12
Speaker
Like Eric did a great job with God.
00:48:13
Speaker
Eric did.
00:48:14
Speaker
However, there is an element of fast combo shots that a lot of their games don't haven't had, uh, aside from Elton John.
00:48:25
Speaker
So I'm hoping they're going to be able to incorporate that because,
00:48:28
Speaker
you're going to have a Quidditch match in there.
00:48:31
Speaker
Yeah.
00:48:31
Speaker
And you're going to want, that's a fast Matt.
00:48:33
Speaker
You're going to want something that you can, uh, you can combo shots to get the, was it the snitch, the golden snitch snitch.
00:48:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:48:42
Speaker
And so you're going to want that kind of thing.
00:48:45
Speaker
Um, so I hope there is a level of speed.
00:48:50
Speaker
I won't say predictability, but at least familiarity with the design.
00:48:56
Speaker
And so I know it's a lot to ask to say, you want to take some risks, but you want a lot of it to be safe.
00:49:01
Speaker
But I would suggest that's the best way to go on this game.
00:49:05
Speaker
Well, can we say the quiet thing out loud?
00:49:07
Speaker
Yeah.
00:49:09
Speaker
Keith Johnson, I do appreciate what you've done for pinball.
00:49:12
Speaker
I think Lord of the Rings and Simpsons Pinball Party, awesome.
00:49:16
Speaker
I think they drove pinball into a new direction.
00:49:19
Speaker
Yep.
00:49:19
Speaker
I don't feel like the code's very samey-samey from Keith.
00:49:24
Speaker
At Jersey Jack.
00:49:25
Speaker
Okay.
00:49:26
Speaker
I think it's encyclopedic too.
00:49:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:49:28
Speaker
And I think you need to figure out how to streamline things a little bit.
00:49:32
Speaker
Well, because it's, I understand that you want people to see something new a lot.
00:49:38
Speaker
Yeah.
00:49:39
Speaker
But you also want, people want to feel like they understand the game.
00:49:44
Speaker
And if you had a game like, okay, I've had wizard of Oz for like eight years.
00:49:49
Speaker
Okay.
00:49:50
Speaker
I still don't really understand what I'm supposed to do in that game.
00:49:56
Speaker
But my point being is when you have multiple multiballs in the game and they're literally the same rules, you've just named them different multiballs.
00:50:06
Speaker
I mean, it feels like we're phoning it in, right?
00:50:10
Speaker
Like we're just...
00:50:13
Speaker
I don't know.
00:50:14
Speaker
Don't get me wrong.
00:50:15
Speaker
I enjoy the code on most of these games, but it feels very samey, samey.
00:50:19
Speaker
It doesn't help that I feel like Stern is pushing pinball into a new era of pinball, right?
00:50:25
Speaker
And L1's doing that because it's not just modes.
00:50:28
Speaker
It's the underlying... With Jaws, I love Jaws because Jaws has got...
00:50:32
Speaker
It's got your modes.
00:50:33
Speaker
You've got your shark battles or your, your, your shark hunting trips or fishing trips, whatever it may be that's underlining that you're working towards while doing modes.
00:50:43
Speaker
Plus there's also the beaches that you need to close.
00:50:46
Speaker
That's its own thing.
00:50:47
Speaker
There's a lot of like nuance inside the nuance, right?
00:50:51
Speaker
the overall arching game is easy to understand, but there's a lot of nuance underneath that.
00:50:55
Speaker
I'm not saying you're not getting that with guns and roses.
00:50:59
Speaker
What I'm saying is it's like, there's not enough of it or not guns and roses with Keith L one's game, Keith Johnson's games, Keith Johnson's games.
00:51:07
Speaker
I feel like we're, we're, we're focusing on modes and multi balls either or.
00:51:12
Speaker
And that's about it.
00:51:12
Speaker
There's not much outside of that.
00:51:15
Speaker
I still love playing these games.
00:51:16
Speaker
These games are beautiful.
00:51:17
Speaker
They're wonderful games to have in your house.
00:51:20
Speaker
But I feel like Jersey Jack that was once innovating and pushing the industry is resting on its laurels at the moment, where Stern is no longer resting on its laurels and is pushing the industry forward.
00:51:34
Speaker
And so that is my recommendation because you got Joe Katz and you've got Keith Johnson.
00:51:40
Speaker
That's what you got at Jersey Jack.
00:51:41
Speaker
And there's probably some other coders down there helping flesh out the code.
00:51:45
Speaker
That's what you, what you have.
00:51:46
Speaker
And I feel like Joe Katz is doing a really good job.
00:51:48
Speaker
I just, Keith, it's Johnson.
00:51:50
Speaker
It's, it's, it's time.
00:51:51
Speaker
Time to stop pressing on your laurels.
00:51:53
Speaker
It's time to streamline.
00:51:54
Speaker
It's time to streamline.
00:51:56
Speaker
And, and that's, I don't think anybody feels like they need 21 options.
00:52:04
Speaker
They, they need like,
00:52:06
Speaker
seven or eight great modes with, uh, with stretch modes.
00:52:12
Speaker
So start with eight core modes.
00:52:15
Speaker
And then when you complete those to a certain level, go for the mini wizard.
00:52:19
Speaker
So four other ones on top of that.
00:52:21
Speaker
And then you go down to two and then you go down to the, to the, the final wizard mode.
00:52:27
Speaker
Okay.
00:52:28
Speaker
Do you, do you think that Jersey Jack is going to consider, we haven't heard any rumors about this,
00:52:36
Speaker
but consider dividing the license and making a Harry Potter book one through three or one through four, and then doing a five through seven.
00:52:49
Speaker
I think it would be smart.
00:52:51
Speaker
I think it all depends on that license and tells on what they're allowed to do.
00:52:55
Speaker
I, I,
00:52:56
Speaker
It would be smart.
00:52:57
Speaker
It's hard.
00:52:58
Speaker
The books on my shelf are that big.
00:53:01
Speaker
And if you're holding it up, it's about a foot and a half, like how long those books take up on the shelf.
00:53:07
Speaker
If you're listening and not watching, Scott just held up his hands from edge of screen to edge of screen.
00:53:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:53:14
Speaker
So that's a lot.
00:53:15
Speaker
That's a lot of information to put in there.
00:53:17
Speaker
I mean, think about it.
00:53:18
Speaker
Star Wars.
00:53:19
Speaker
Imagine.
00:53:20
Speaker
putting episode one through nine in there yeah it's it's hard so yeah even if doing one through three four or five six and seven or whatever dividing it up i think that would be super smart for them and if they had two or three harry potter games that would be a brilliant move for them and a home run yeah i agree
00:53:46
Speaker
Because I guarantee if someone's buying one and it's a hit, they're going to buy two or three.
00:53:52
Speaker
They will.
00:53:54
Speaker
Well, and I think that's as much as we can talk about with Harry Potter.
00:53:58
Speaker
It really is.
00:53:58
Speaker
We haven't heard a ton of stuff with it.
00:54:00
Speaker
My understanding is, you know, NAP Arcade did allude to it might be next month that they're showing this.
00:54:07
Speaker
It would be smart.
00:54:08
Speaker
It makes sense.
00:54:09
Speaker
It makes sense.
00:54:10
Speaker
A lot of reveals are in February slash March because of TPF and they're in, you know, September, October because of Expo.
00:54:17
Speaker
That's just, that's how the cookie crumbles.
00:54:20
Speaker
So if...
00:54:23
Speaker
And I'm hoping that we're, I'm hoping that we are going to be involved in some level to be able to see it and talk about it early on, because that would help both us and Jersey Jack.
00:54:36
Speaker
So I've got on our notes, Stern media day.
00:54:39
Speaker
But honestly, you, you and I kind of talked about this before the podcast and really,
00:54:43
Speaker
go check out our brothers from another mother, triple drain,
Licensing Shifts and Industry Trends
00:54:46
Speaker
triple drain.
00:54:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:54:47
Speaker
They had retro Ralph on, which all four of them went to the stern media day.
00:54:51
Speaker
Okay.
00:54:51
Speaker
By the way, I kind of hate retro Ralph and I'll tell you why he's good looking, he's smooth and he has really good content.
00:55:01
Speaker
And I, it just shows everything that I am not in podcasting.
00:55:06
Speaker
And so go check him out.
00:55:09
Speaker
He's really good.
00:55:10
Speaker
He's really good.
00:55:11
Speaker
And honestly, I,
00:55:12
Speaker
He's slumming in with us in pinball.
00:55:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:55:14
Speaker
He was making insane numbers on arcade and he comes to pinball and it like, yeah, he's rebuilding.
00:55:20
Speaker
He's rebuilding.
00:55:21
Speaker
Yep.
00:55:21
Speaker
And honestly, dude's awesome.
00:55:23
Speaker
We got to meet him at media day back in May.
00:55:26
Speaker
Really nice dude.
00:55:27
Speaker
He lives in Arizona.
00:55:28
Speaker
We might have to, it's warm down there right now.
00:55:30
Speaker
We might have to go take a trip.
00:55:31
Speaker
Yeah.
00:55:33
Speaker
So yeah.
00:55:34
Speaker
So they did like a two hour episode.
00:55:36
Speaker
It was great.
00:55:39
Speaker
Really go check out triple drain.
00:55:40
Speaker
If you haven't, they're on the pinball network.
00:55:42
Speaker
I want to move on.
00:55:43
Speaker
So there's, there's two things I've heard over this last couple of weeks that I feel like people don't understand.
00:55:47
Speaker
And since Scott and I have kind of a behind the scenes, better working knowledge, but goes on in the industry.
00:55:53
Speaker
I feel like we could talk to both of these.
00:55:55
Speaker
Okay.
00:55:56
Speaker
The first one is we're seeing a new trend with licensing.
00:56:01
Speaker
I'm not going to point at specific licensing because that, um,
00:56:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:56:05
Speaker
Sure.
00:56:06
Speaker
But we're finding out more and more that pinball is only just a resurgence with the home and with, and location and stuff like that.
00:56:14
Speaker
But a lot more people outside of pinball are coming to pinball companies saying, we want you to take our product and make a pinball machine.
00:56:23
Speaker
Okay.
00:56:23
Speaker
Now this, it is common knowledge.
00:56:26
Speaker
At least they talked about it, that Metallica approached them.
00:56:30
Speaker
Yes.
00:56:30
Speaker
Yep.
00:56:30
Speaker
And said, and so this is not behind the scenes.
00:56:33
Speaker
They have talked about it.
00:56:35
Speaker
Metallica said, Hey, what you guys do with rush.
00:56:37
Speaker
Can you do that with ours?
00:56:38
Speaker
Cause that was great.
00:56:40
Speaker
So my question is, cause I know that not only that, but like Supreme did this, but there's been this weird divide where it felt like the licenses that Gary Stern was out going to get was the cornerstones.
00:56:52
Speaker
And then people were approaching, you know, starting to make a pinball machine.
00:56:56
Speaker
They were making, I think they called it white label or was that fixed?
00:57:00
Speaker
I think that was fixed, but I'm okay.
00:57:01
Speaker
Basically.
00:57:02
Speaker
So you look at Stern and they had the star Wars, that game, they had the spider man home edition.
00:57:09
Speaker
They had Supreme.
00:57:10
Speaker
And so they were all, whoa, Nelly was being turned into paps.
00:57:13
Speaker
Crankrush.
00:57:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:57:14
Speaker
And so they were all kind of re skins of a very basic layout, but we're talking like custom games that are being made for people who have approached them.
00:57:24
Speaker
So people are approaching, it's not just Stern.
00:57:27
Speaker
It is all the, they're kind of getting into a bidding war over like what pinball company do I want to go with?
00:57:35
Speaker
And pinball companies are, you know, they're going to say, well, can you produce my games faster?
00:57:39
Speaker
Blah, blah, blah, you know?
00:57:41
Speaker
And so my question is, you know, the old days, Gary told us about how like he took like a third of a play field in a briefcase up to a high rise in New York.
00:57:52
Speaker
And I was like,
00:57:53
Speaker
I want to make your theme into a pinball machine.
00:57:56
Speaker
And he said, the guy that owned the license, like who's this guy and what's this big piece of wood with stuff.
00:58:01
Speaker
Weird thing that you're on there.
00:58:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:58:04
Speaker
We're going from that where you had to go out and obtain a license to where people are like, I want you to make essentially my love letter of a franchise and a pinball machine.
00:58:13
Speaker
So I would assume if someone's approaching Stern, are they paying less money to do that?
00:58:19
Speaker
Or if they're approaching American or if they're approaching JJP.
00:58:22
Speaker
So with Metallica, maybe does Metallica say, Hey, we're not going to charge you that we would for our, our normal product that we've franchise out or license out because we want this product from you guys.
00:58:34
Speaker
I know Metallica is a different story because they made that in the past, right?
00:58:36
Speaker
Like it's not much of a leap, but it's like it,
00:58:41
Speaker
Let's compare that to Harry Potter, right?
00:58:44
Speaker
We know that Harry Potter was paid for in the millions.
00:58:49
Speaker
It was a coveted license, yes.
00:58:51
Speaker
I think Jack Guarneri had kind of confirmed... Well, he didn't confirm that they have Harry Potter, but I think he at one point said this is one of the most expensive licenses they've ever paid for.
00:58:59
Speaker
This is not a million.
00:59:01
Speaker
This is millions.
00:59:02
Speaker
Yeah, like 4 million, I think, was the number that was thrown out there.
00:59:06
Speaker
It was 4 to 5, yeah.
00:59:07
Speaker
Something like that.
00:59:08
Speaker
Okay, so that obviously...
00:59:11
Speaker
And J.K.
00:59:12
Speaker
Rowling had to be convinced that pinball wasn't a gambling device, that these weren't going to – my understanding there are stipulations around the license on this one.
00:59:21
Speaker
So we'll wait and see.
00:59:22
Speaker
The rumor was, is there going to be a coin box?
00:59:26
Speaker
That's the big rumor, right?
00:59:27
Speaker
The coin door, yep.
00:59:27
Speaker
The coin door, yeah.
00:59:29
Speaker
So I guess my question is, is it more advantageous?
00:59:33
Speaker
Let's say Dungeons & Dragons, Stern's newest release.
00:59:37
Speaker
Let's say that Dungeons & Dragons approached Stern and said, hey, we want you to make a Dungeons & Dragons game versus Harry Potter, where we know it's going to be guaranteed sales, but we know for a fact they went out and got that license, right?
00:59:50
Speaker
They chased J.K.
00:59:52
Speaker
Rowling for that license.
00:59:54
Speaker
Which one do you think is more worth it?
00:59:55
Speaker
Where you've got D&D has proven with all the voice actors and everyone willing to throw the ring in the hat and all that jazz versus Harry Potter where it's been pulling teeth to get stuff approved and you're paying more, but it's a more recognizable license.
01:00:11
Speaker
What do you think is the better option here?
01:00:15
Speaker
I'm going to give a qualified.
01:00:17
Speaker
It depends.
01:00:17
Speaker
Okay.
01:00:19
Speaker
Because there is some level of
01:00:23
Speaker
can you make the product that will reflect best on pinball and the license holder?
01:00:34
Speaker
Because those can be either aligned or they can be competing.
01:00:38
Speaker
Yeah.
01:00:40
Speaker
Right.
01:00:40
Speaker
And we've heard behind the scenes, especially one license where they basically just said, I don't think that what you're asking us to do is going to be beneficial.
01:00:49
Speaker
Right.
01:00:51
Speaker
And so therefore, I think we're not going to, we have already started this process, but I think we're going to part ways.
01:00:58
Speaker
Okay.
01:01:00
Speaker
Now, the, we know the best products that are produced in pinball are when the pinball company has more freedom to make something right.
01:01:16
Speaker
And you could argue Metallica.
01:01:18
Speaker
Metallica said, make a good pinball machine.
01:01:20
Speaker
And the first iteration of it was amazing.
01:01:23
Speaker
And the second one's even better.
01:01:25
Speaker
Okay.
01:01:26
Speaker
Yeah.
01:01:27
Speaker
Iron Maiden.
01:01:27
Speaker
We know that the, the band was very supportive of their, their process going on.
01:01:33
Speaker
Rush, same thing.
01:01:34
Speaker
The band was very supportive on what's going on.
01:01:37
Speaker
You can see when, um, bond is, was a notoriously difficult license to work with.
01:01:44
Speaker
Yep.
01:01:45
Speaker
So I would argue that the bond product is,
01:01:51
Speaker
was inhibited.
01:01:53
Speaker
And I know people who have bought L E's and sold them because they're like, it's just not what I'm looking for.
01:02:01
Speaker
Yeah.
01:02:03
Speaker
So however, my first, uh, the first time I met Steve Ritchie was at a Rocky mountain pinball show and his, his shtick was, he got up and said, hi, I'm Steve Ritchie and I sell pinball machines.
01:02:16
Speaker
Okay.
01:02:19
Speaker
So if you can sell a certain amount of machines and still make a lot of money, then that's, that's the ideal situation.
01:02:31
Speaker
But if you also, if, if the license is inhibiting your ability to sell a lot of machines, then I would argue you should look for it in a license.
01:02:41
Speaker
Yeah.
01:02:42
Speaker
So, um,
01:02:45
Speaker
Now, even if a license is very cooperative, it still may not be a huge seller.
01:02:52
Speaker
So I'm sorry if Wu-Tang came to me and said, hey, make my machine.
01:02:56
Speaker
I know a lot of people have said they want a Wu-Tang machine, but I'm not sure there's enough market share to make a Wu-Tang machine.
01:03:04
Speaker
So even if they gave you that license for free, are they going to sell 4,000 games on that?
01:03:12
Speaker
I would say no.
01:03:13
Speaker
So...
01:03:15
Speaker
Finding that balance of, you know, that ideal nexus.
01:03:18
Speaker
But is there a situation where you can have someone who is particular, but you can work within those limitations and still put out a good product, then great.
01:03:31
Speaker
But there are challenges.
01:03:34
Speaker
I, I, Beatles, I don't know if Beatles sold as well.
01:03:38
Speaker
As they wanted it to, to make up for it.
01:03:41
Speaker
Cause at the time that was the most expensive license.
01:03:43
Speaker
It was like a million bucks, I believe.
01:03:45
Speaker
Yeah.
01:03:46
Speaker
So the most they could make on that was 1964.
01:03:48
Speaker
Wasn't that?
01:03:51
Speaker
Yeah.
01:03:52
Speaker
Yep.
01:03:52
Speaker
And I don't think they, I don't think they made them all.
01:03:54
Speaker
Yeah.
01:03:55
Speaker
They still made some like this last month.
01:03:56
Speaker
Right.
01:03:57
Speaker
And so are they,
01:04:00
Speaker
Was that worth it?
01:04:01
Speaker
And I was like, maybe not.
01:04:03
Speaker
Like, I think they thought Beatles was going to be a bigger seller and they didn't, you know, there's 10 songs on.
01:04:10
Speaker
How many songs are Beatles do Beatles have?
01:04:13
Speaker
Oh, well, the white album itself is a double album.
01:04:16
Speaker
Yeah.
01:04:16
Speaker
Okay.
01:04:17
Speaker
Yeah.
01:04:17
Speaker
So, so I'm just pointing.
01:04:18
Speaker
And actually a lot of people don't realize the great singles didn't even make it on albums.
01:04:26
Speaker
Yeah.
01:04:26
Speaker
Like, so we're talking so many songs, but you're also limited by that.
01:04:32
Speaker
Led Zeppelin, I would argue did not meet expectations because they didn't, you know, there wasn't a lot of options there even.
01:04:41
Speaker
And I know, I know the reasons, I know the reasons, but stairway to heaven didn't make it in the, in there.
01:04:46
Speaker
Yeah.
01:04:50
Speaker
And would you buy a, would you buy a Harry Potter game that doesn't have Voldemort in it?
01:04:54
Speaker
Just curious.
01:04:56
Speaker
I want a star Wars game that doesn't have Darth Vader.
01:04:58
Speaker
I mean, that's like the thing you're known for.
01:05:01
Speaker
And if you don't put the thing in there, then that may be a walk away moment.
01:05:05
Speaker
Now, like a back to the future without the DeLorean.
01:05:08
Speaker
Yeah.
01:05:08
Speaker
Kind of weird.
01:05:09
Speaker
Or, or without Marty McFly, you know, things like that.
01:05:12
Speaker
So there are things that are deal breakers.
01:05:14
Speaker
Yeah.
01:05:16
Speaker
I don't necessarily think, sorry, this is a long answer and I I'll let, I'll let you take it.
01:05:21
Speaker
But,
01:05:23
Speaker
There are constraints that make it difficult to work with.
01:05:25
Speaker
I don't think it necessarily matters whether or not you approach the license or the license approaches you.
01:05:31
Speaker
is if you can get enough assets to be able to put forth the license in the most favorable light, that's what's most important.
01:05:39
Speaker
Okay, Josh, your turn.
01:05:41
Speaker
I talked way too long.
01:05:42
Speaker
I guess, sorry, D&D is a bad example because I do not know if they paid for that license.
01:05:48
Speaker
My assumption is with D&D being D&D, I don't think that Stern went out and got the license.
01:05:54
Speaker
That's just my assumption.
01:05:56
Speaker
And so, and plus it's, I would think they did actually.
01:05:58
Speaker
Really?
01:05:59
Speaker
Yeah.
01:06:00
Speaker
I argue they probably did reach out, but I guess, and granted, like I said, Metallica, it's hard because it's like, they did approach Stern and say, Hey, we want another Metallica.
01:06:09
Speaker
And, and Metallica is already a proven seller, right?
01:06:13
Speaker
Like, but I think if, if you've got, I, I think if the licensor comes to you and you're able to do it right, that is more beneficial to you.
01:06:25
Speaker
than if you go out and spend the $4 million on Harry Potter.
01:06:30
Speaker
I just, that's a lot of, that's a lot of dinero over however many games you're making that you have to almost guarantee you sell.
01:06:38
Speaker
And I'll give you the example.
01:06:40
Speaker
The example is Jeff Bezos at the time, richest man in the world.
01:06:45
Speaker
Yeah.
01:06:46
Speaker
Huge Lord of the Rings fan.
01:06:49
Speaker
And he wanted to make the rings of power.
01:06:53
Speaker
So he, he,
01:06:55
Speaker
bought the license and paid for this because he wanted to see it.
01:06:58
Speaker
Okay.
01:07:00
Speaker
That's a big difference between Peter Jackson coming to James Cameron and saying, Hey, I want you to make a series for me.
01:07:11
Speaker
You know, and James Cameron is going to say, how much am I going to make?
01:07:15
Speaker
Sure.
01:07:16
Speaker
But Jeff Bezos is like, I got more money anyway, so I don't care.
01:07:20
Speaker
I just want to see it.
01:07:21
Speaker
I just do it.
01:07:24
Speaker
So like I said, I think overall it does come down to that passion, right?
01:07:27
Speaker
Like you can obviously tell there's passion in Metallica and it oozes through the game.
01:07:35
Speaker
I think there's less of a risk on if a licensor is approaching you because I think they're more willing to work with you.
01:07:43
Speaker
Right.
01:07:44
Speaker
I think that's also another reason I was looking at D and D because there is so much from out there.
01:07:49
Speaker
You can't tell me that Stern paid all these actors.
01:07:51
Speaker
I, I, I, that's a good question.
01:07:53
Speaker
That that's a total good point.
01:07:55
Speaker
Like it may have been, it may have been people like, I just want to be on the product.
01:07:58
Speaker
I, how many, how many people do you know, ask Hollywood to be involved in a project because their fans as opposed their personal fans, as opposed to, I would just want a paycheck.
01:08:09
Speaker
Well, a good example, let's use this one.
01:08:11
Speaker
I know this one gets brought up a million times.
01:08:13
Speaker
People are probably going to grumble.
01:08:15
Speaker
Well, let's talk Eric Manier on Guns N' Roses.
01:08:17
Speaker
It's that whole Beatles thing, you know?
01:08:19
Speaker
And they were having a hard time with Live or Let Die.
01:08:21
Speaker
And he gets on the phone, you know, Slash calls him up and he says, we're having issues with Live or Let Die.
01:08:26
Speaker
And 15 minutes later, Paul McCartney's on the phone and all the red tape got cut through.
01:08:31
Speaker
I mean, who is it?
01:08:32
Speaker
Wizards of the Coast.
01:08:33
Speaker
I can't remember who owns D&D.
01:08:35
Speaker
Probably called up the people and was like,
01:08:38
Speaker
Hey, Kevin Smith, we're making a D&D pinball machine.
01:08:41
Speaker
You want to be involved?
01:08:42
Speaker
And he's like, you know it.
01:08:43
Speaker
When and where?
01:08:44
Speaker
You know what I'm saying?
01:08:46
Speaker
You look at Ben Stiller made Dodgeball because he believed in Dodgeball and he wanted to see that movie made.
01:08:54
Speaker
And he took a big pay cut.
01:08:56
Speaker
It was under a million dollars to do that movie for him.
01:08:58
Speaker
That's a bold move, Cotton.
01:09:00
Speaker
Let's see if it works out for him.
01:09:01
Speaker
And it's still a cult classic to this day.
01:09:03
Speaker
It did well.
01:09:04
Speaker
It's a, it's a funny show, but it's stuff like that.
01:09:06
Speaker
Like when, when it's a passion project, people are willing to take a cut because they want to see the project come to fruition.
01:09:12
Speaker
Right.
01:09:12
Speaker
Right.
01:09:13
Speaker
So I, that's why I'm saying, I think it's more advantageous if someone's approaching you because you're going to get more doors open.
01:09:20
Speaker
I think you're going to have them as a reliable source versus if you go to someone and you say, Hey, we want to make your product in a pinball machine.
01:09:27
Speaker
They might not be as forthcoming.
01:09:29
Speaker
I bet you, it's been proven with D&D.
01:09:32
Speaker
They shared their resources.
01:09:35
Speaker
Wizards of the Coast, I think Hasbro is the one that actually owns it.
01:09:38
Speaker
Now I'm saying all this.
01:09:39
Speaker
Hasbro was like, we know these people.
01:09:41
Speaker
We know that people.
01:09:42
Speaker
Let us call our people and we'll send them your way.
01:09:45
Speaker
You know what I'm saying?
01:09:49
Speaker
I agree, by the way.
01:09:50
Speaker
Everything you said, I totally agree with.
01:09:53
Speaker
And I think we are saying the same thing, but in different ways.
01:09:58
Speaker
Yeah.
01:09:59
Speaker
Because if I'm going to Stern to say, Hey, I want to make a loser kid pinball machine.
01:10:04
Speaker
I'm not going to have many constraints.
01:10:06
Speaker
Yeah.
01:10:07
Speaker
Do what you want.
01:10:07
Speaker
Do what you want, you know?
01:10:09
Speaker
Yep.
01:10:10
Speaker
But if, you know, if they come to us, we're like, you know, well, okay, well maybe we can get something out of it.
01:10:16
Speaker
So the diehards have probably made it this far.
01:10:19
Speaker
I've got one more note on our episode.
01:10:25
Speaker
My last note is I put, so I'm hearing some terms thrown around and there's some people that don't understand these.
01:10:31
Speaker
And like I said, I don't know why, but Scott and I feel qualified to talk about this.
01:10:37
Speaker
So Zach Many was talking on the Pinball Show.
01:10:38
Speaker
If you've not listened to the most recent episode, go turn it on, right?
01:10:41
Speaker
Well, after you finish our episode, great episode.
01:10:44
Speaker
But Zach was talking about game selling out and game selling through.
01:10:48
Speaker
And people hear these words, and I don't think they understand exactly what it means to sell out versus sell through versus sell in.
01:10:56
Speaker
So Scott, when a manufacturer makes a game, why don't you kind of tell them how the tree works with how the game sells?
01:11:07
Speaker
So there's basically a business.
01:11:10
Speaker
Okay.
01:11:11
Speaker
There's always third party involved in most things, right?
01:11:15
Speaker
Yeah.
01:11:15
Speaker
There's most of the time it's a manufacturer that is a business that sells to a business that in turn sells to a customer.
01:11:27
Speaker
Yep.
01:11:27
Speaker
Okay.
01:11:28
Speaker
And so it depends on how far down that chain you go.
01:11:33
Speaker
And these are very simplistic terms, by the way.
01:11:36
Speaker
So if it's sold out, that typically means it is sold from the manufacturer all the way to the end part.
01:11:45
Speaker
So they are in customers' hands, or at least customers have ordered them.
Understanding Pinball Market Dynamics
01:11:50
Speaker
So a great example would be Metallica LE.
01:11:53
Speaker
Metallica LE.
01:11:54
Speaker
Sold out.
01:11:56
Speaker
All those distributors have sold their LEs.
01:11:58
Speaker
That is a sellout.
01:11:58
Speaker
Right.
01:12:00
Speaker
And if a middle person has not sold it, it's because they have chosen not to sell it.
01:12:09
Speaker
I'm sure there's one or two people who are holding a Metallica LE inbox.
01:12:13
Speaker
Okay.
01:12:14
Speaker
But that is, that's not because they aren't able to sell it.
01:12:18
Speaker
It's because they choose not to sell it.
01:12:20
Speaker
You know, they're speculating.
01:12:21
Speaker
So now sell, uh, like, so that's, uh, that's sell, sell out, sell out.
01:12:29
Speaker
Okay.
01:12:30
Speaker
So sell through at least my understanding.
01:12:34
Speaker
is the manufacturer has made what they say they're going to make on it.
01:12:40
Speaker
Yeah.
01:12:40
Speaker
And they have sold them at least to the first step.
01:12:45
Speaker
So like with X-Men LE, what did they sell?
01:12:48
Speaker
Like 88, was it 888 or something like that?
01:12:50
Speaker
Yeah, it was.
01:12:51
Speaker
Yeah.
01:12:52
Speaker
Oh no.
01:12:53
Speaker
It was like, was it 860 or something like that?
01:12:55
Speaker
Something like that.
01:12:56
Speaker
Yeah.
01:12:57
Speaker
Okay.
01:12:57
Speaker
And with, uh,
01:12:58
Speaker
and with dungeons dragons they did 7 40. yeah so with uh so for them to sell that i now i don't did they sell that through
01:13:14
Speaker
I want to say dungeons and dragons sold through.
01:13:17
Speaker
Okay.
01:13:18
Speaker
But I guarantee.
01:13:18
Speaker
You have to own list of the pinball.
01:13:20
Speaker
I wish I would have paid a little closer to attention.
01:13:22
Speaker
It's hard because these are terms we're not super familiar with, but I, okay.
01:13:26
Speaker
Some things that I guarantee did not sell out at all.
01:13:31
Speaker
They didn't even sell through.
01:13:33
Speaker
I guarantee they didn't make all of Venom Ellie's.
01:13:36
Speaker
Yeah.
01:13:37
Speaker
I didn't.
01:13:37
Speaker
I guarantee they didn't even make them.
01:13:39
Speaker
Yeah.
01:13:40
Speaker
Okay.
01:13:41
Speaker
Um, stranger things, Ellie's I guarantee they didn't make them.
01:13:46
Speaker
Um, a lot of the other ones.
01:13:49
Speaker
Wick.
01:13:49
Speaker
I don't think they, they probably didn't sell through on those, those ones either.
01:13:52
Speaker
Yeah.
01:13:52
Speaker
Maybe or maybe not.
01:13:53
Speaker
I, okay.
01:13:54
Speaker
I, I know they didn't sell out.
01:13:56
Speaker
Um, I doubt they sold through, but even if they did, I guarantee I, I, you could call up a distributor and find an Ellie very quickly.
01:14:04
Speaker
Yep.
01:14:04
Speaker
Okay.
01:14:06
Speaker
Um, dungeons and dragons.
01:14:08
Speaker
There is a likelihood, a high likelihood that this is sold through at a minimum, but I, I would not be surprised within, you know, within two weeks or a month that is completely sold out.
01:14:24
Speaker
Yeah.
01:14:26
Speaker
And it's just funny.
01:14:27
Speaker
Cause Hey, why is that important?
01:14:28
Speaker
Josh though?
01:14:29
Speaker
Why do we bring this up?
01:14:30
Speaker
Just because we've heard a whole lot of manufacturers, a lot of people saying,
01:14:36
Speaker
We sold out.
01:14:38
Speaker
Right.
01:14:38
Speaker
And it's like, no, you haven't sold out.
01:14:40
Speaker
You may have sold through to your distributors.
01:14:42
Speaker
Right.
01:14:43
Speaker
but you thought sold out to your door.
01:14:45
Speaker
Yeah.
01:14:45
Speaker
So like, I, I don't know if it was like with the fun house remake with the limited edition where Penn ready was coming out and was like, we've sold out.
01:14:52
Speaker
And it's like, no, no, no.
01:14:54
Speaker
They may have sold still available.
01:14:57
Speaker
Yeah.
01:14:57
Speaker
But the problem is, is when you, when you, a manufacturer comes out and says we've sold out, which I mean, I guess if they sold through, they've technically sold out from the manufacturer.
01:15:06
Speaker
Yeah.
01:15:06
Speaker
But that's not the right term though.
01:15:08
Speaker
That's not the right term.
01:15:09
Speaker
you shoot your distributors in the foot because then people are like, oh, well, they're all sold out.
01:15:14
Speaker
This is not available.
01:15:15
Speaker
Yeah.
01:15:15
Speaker
Yeah.
01:15:15
Speaker
So either a, they're either going to call in a panic and say, do you have any more?
01:15:20
Speaker
And when everyone's like, yeah, we got like five of them set in their shop.
01:15:24
Speaker
I think I'm like, or are they creating artificial panic?
01:15:27
Speaker
Yeah.
01:15:28
Speaker
Like it's just funny because like, I think some of the manufacturers don't even know exactly.
01:15:35
Speaker
I think they do, but I, I would argue they're probably,
01:15:41
Speaker
There is something about the FOMO.
01:15:43
Speaker
Yeah.
01:15:43
Speaker
And so maybe I would say they're being a little fast and loose with what selling out versus selling through means.
01:15:51
Speaker
Correct.
01:15:52
Speaker
So just something I wanted to bring up.
01:15:55
Speaker
I know that the words get thrown around a lot, and I don't hear much people talking about it because it's just, I don't know if people don't know.
01:16:04
Speaker
We just play the little cue from NBC.
01:16:06
Speaker
The more you know.
01:16:06
Speaker
The more you know.
01:16:07
Speaker
The more you know.
01:16:09
Speaker
Yeah.
01:16:09
Speaker
Again, if you really do want to know, though, if you think something's sold out, call Zach because he'll tell you if he has one on.
01:16:16
Speaker
And most of the time he has one available or if something comes up, then he'll put you on a list.
01:16:23
Speaker
That's just an example of a distributor who will tell you exactly what's going on.
01:16:28
Speaker
So I find it interesting if you go on Pinside because I was looking up the numbers of
01:16:31
Speaker
like we were talking X-Men LE, it says in production, it actually doesn't say the final number.
01:16:38
Speaker
But with Dungeons & Dragons, it actually does say the 740.
01:16:43
Speaker
But even with John Wick LE, it says in production.
01:16:48
Speaker
I thought they were all done with the production on those.
01:16:50
Speaker
I could be wrong.
01:16:51
Speaker
So I think, I wonder, half wonder if that means they haven't produced them all.
01:16:55
Speaker
And so Pinside's just like, yeah, we're holding off on this until we get confirmation.
01:16:58
Speaker
Yeah, I guarantee if they
01:17:01
Speaker
If they sold, if the sell through sells out and there's enough for 20 LEs, they'd make them.
01:17:11
Speaker
Like with Jaws LEs, it says a thousand was produced.
01:17:15
Speaker
So they sold all those.
01:17:17
Speaker
That's, that is a sell out.
01:17:18
Speaker
No, Stern doesn't, doesn't, doesn't officially announce things.
01:17:22
Speaker
And so this is, uh, I guess an educated speculation.
01:17:26
Speaker
Well, and here's the thing.
01:17:27
Speaker
So if someone actually receives 1,000 out of 1,000, that's confirmation that they made all 1,000.
01:17:33
Speaker
It's not linear.
01:17:34
Speaker
Yeah.
01:17:35
Speaker
They don't make them linear.
01:17:36
Speaker
Like my Metallica, I think it's like 460 something.
01:17:40
Speaker
Yeah.
01:17:41
Speaker
Yours was pretty high.
01:17:42
Speaker
When you did your video, you're like, oh, this is like one of the last run ones.
Recognizing Pinball Content Creators
01:17:45
Speaker
This is 486.
01:17:46
Speaker
And actually, I wouldn't be surprised if mine was one of the last ones.
01:17:49
Speaker
Yeah.
01:17:50
Speaker
Because I got it a little later than other people.
01:17:53
Speaker
Yep.
01:17:54
Speaker
All right.
01:17:55
Speaker
We've ran almost an hour and 20 minutes.
01:17:56
Speaker
Yeah.
01:17:57
Speaker
Yeah.
01:17:57
Speaker
Uh, people are either turned off or I don't know.
01:18:00
Speaker
They're listening to us on double speed.
01:18:02
Speaker
It's fine.
01:18:03
Speaker
You know, you know, you know, um, we talked about the twippies earlier because of like the community recognition and stuff like that.
01:18:10
Speaker
After we did, uh,
01:18:12
Speaker
twippies last year i know i've been terrible at this but i have been trying to do a spot where we do content creator of the episode because i feel like there are a lot of great content creators out there that don't get recognition and i've probably double said some and i do apologize um i do appreciate those i've reached out and asked us to look at their content
01:18:32
Speaker
I've been more than happy to talk about your content on our show and give you a content creator.
01:18:38
Speaker
I want you to know, I'm not saying we're the end-all be-all of content creators.
01:18:43
Speaker
There's definitely people that have more numbers than us, but we have a platform.
01:18:46
Speaker
There's more stars in the sky.
01:18:47
Speaker
It's fine.
01:18:48
Speaker
Correct.
01:18:48
Speaker
I feel like we have a platform that we can share with others.
01:18:52
Speaker
I don't mind pushing content.
01:18:56
Speaker
One content creator...
01:18:58
Speaker
Haven't heard in a while.
01:18:58
Speaker
Does great content.
01:19:00
Speaker
Abe flips.
01:19:01
Speaker
If you have not seen his tutorial videos on YouTube, they're insanely cool and they will help you with your flipper skills and whatnot.
01:19:09
Speaker
So go check out a flips on YouTube.
01:19:12
Speaker
That's going to, that's the content creator I am saying for this episode.
01:19:17
Speaker
I'm going to jump on too.
01:19:19
Speaker
So we mentioned him before.
01:19:21
Speaker
Check out Retro Ralph.
01:19:22
Speaker
He's great.
01:19:24
Speaker
Obviously, Retro Ralph does not need our numbers.
01:19:27
Speaker
He doesn't need ours.
01:19:28
Speaker
He's good.
01:19:29
Speaker
And also, I'm excited because I just got an invoice to finalize my Sithara guitar.
01:19:36
Speaker
Yes.
01:19:37
Speaker
So we, and we are going to have him on too, but I'm excited because he, he even has some suggestions on there.
01:19:45
Speaker
It's like, Hey, do you want the loser kid logo on the neck?
01:19:47
Speaker
And I'm like, yes, I do.
01:19:48
Speaker
Yes.
01:19:48
Speaker
So, so we're going to have to talk about that after we shut this off.
01:19:51
Speaker
Cause I, I want to know what you put into yours and I'll tell you what I put into mine.
01:19:55
Speaker
Okay.
01:19:55
Speaker
No, no.
01:19:56
Speaker
Sounds good.
01:19:56
Speaker
But absolutely check him out.
01:20:00
Speaker
Definitely.
01:20:00
Speaker
It's a C I T H A R A guitars.
01:20:03
Speaker
And the,
01:20:05
Speaker
Great stuff.
01:20:06
Speaker
But we, again, thank you so much for the year.
01:20:09
Speaker
What an amazing year.
Listener Engagement and Community Innovation
01:20:10
Speaker
We're looking forward to this year.
01:20:12
Speaker
And definitely go, if you've played Dungeons and Dragons, tell me about it and tell us, tell us like, if you were surprised, if it was what you expected or if it didn't hit the mark, I have a feeling that it'll be exceeded expectations.
01:20:25
Speaker
Yep.
01:20:26
Speaker
Once again, thanks to the 60,000 plus people that viewed or listened to our content.
01:20:32
Speaker
Also, Silverball Swag.
01:20:33
Speaker
If you've been watching on YouTube and you saw this baseball jersey, it's in black.
01:20:37
Speaker
It's in white.
01:20:38
Speaker
If you want one, hit up SilverballSwag.com slash LoserKid and send Neil Shelton a little thank you.
01:20:45
Speaker
Dude, he bought that like a year ago.
01:20:48
Speaker
He's crushing it.
01:20:49
Speaker
And he's a passionate man when it comes to pinball.
01:20:52
Speaker
He's got some great things in the pipeline.
01:20:53
Speaker
I'm excited for him to reveal to all of y'all.
01:20:56
Speaker
I'm excited.
01:20:57
Speaker
Like Neil is just a great dude.
01:20:58
Speaker
I've always been a supporter of everything he does.
01:21:01
Speaker
He just, he takes it to the next level.
01:21:04
Speaker
So there is that.
01:21:06
Speaker
If you want to get a hold of us, we are Losing a Pinball podcast at gmail.com.
01:21:09
Speaker
We're on all the socials, Facebook, Instagram, X, Threads.
01:21:14
Speaker
Someone the other day is like, I heard you said you were on Threads, so I came to check you out.
01:21:17
Speaker
And so they're seriously one-on-one commenting.
01:21:20
Speaker
I just barely installed Threads.
01:21:22
Speaker
Okay, so I'm getting there.
01:21:23
Speaker
I'm getting there.
01:21:24
Speaker
Well, we're on TikTok.
01:21:25
Speaker
If you want to see our video that blew up, they almost got 14,000 views.
01:21:30
Speaker
Go check it out.
01:21:32
Speaker
Anyhow, Scott, give us our final words.
01:21:34
Speaker
Thanks again, guys.
01:21:35
Speaker
And we'll see you.
01:21:36
Speaker
I'm heading to Guatemala on Saturday.
01:21:38
Speaker
I'll be gone for a week.
01:21:39
Speaker
And so I'll see you when we get back.