Ep 158: D&D, David Fix Let Go, Harry Potter Pinball?

Transcript

Speaker: Thanks for tuning in to the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast.

Speaker: We are on episode 158.

Speaker: I am Josh Roop.

Speaker: With me, my co-captain.

Speaker: Scott Larson.

Speaker: And that's got to be the first time in almost three months that I did not screw up the intro.

Speaker: Well, it's still good.

Speaker: It's still good, though.

Speaker: Yes.

Speaker: And there has been a barrage of games between Evil Dead,

Speaker: Dungeons and Dragons.

Speaker: There's more whispers of games on the horizon.

Speaker: Scott, you just got a Metallica.

Speaker: Where are you getting these games from?

Speaker: Yeah, I'm reaching out to Zach and Nicole Minney at Flipping Out Pinball.

Speaker: They're always good.

Speaker: So Dungeons and Dragons is getting a lot of hot buzz.

Speaker: So if you are interested, definitely reach out, see what they can hook you up with.

Speaker: Um, and they'll be able to set you up.

Speaker: And, but if there's accessories that you're looking for your games too, they can hook you up with that used games too.

Speaker: So always a good supporter of the show.

Speaker: Uh, Zach and Nicole at flipping out pinball.

Speaker: Yes.

Speaker: Thank you to them.

Speaker: Also, I'm really excited to announce Scott.

Speaker: We got new swag up on the store, new swag, uh, baseball jerseys.

Speaker: And these are like legit baseball jerseys.

Speaker: They're comfortable.

Speaker: I've got Scott's at my house.

Speaker: And we got the new baseball caps.

Speaker: These are snapback versions.

Speaker: Neil talked me into it.

Speaker: He sent me a couple of these.

Speaker: they're good.

Speaker: They are good.

Speaker: They're, you know, and so I'm excited for those.

Speaker: We will have an actual promo code.

Speaker: I don't have it right now, but Neil's supposed to get that to me in the next day or two.

Speaker: If you buy a hat and a shirt, you get a percentage off.

Speaker: I'll push it out via the socials, whether you're on YouTube or if you aren't on YouTube, come check us out on YouTube and hit subscribe and all that jazz.

Speaker: Cause we're actually doing, doing really good.

Speaker: And you were telling me the numbers recently.

Speaker: I want to say thank you listeners viewers holy crap you gave us a Christmas present I was not expecting in the month of December from all of our content whether you listened or you watched over 60,000 people tuned in holy crap that's not including like posts that we did and people commenting and stuff like that that was solely just listening and watching our content

Speaker: And I would like to thank everybody for inviting us into being, you know, and I guess a, a vicarious friendship because that's how we view this.

Speaker: We talk, this is, you're, you're getting a behind the scenes when Josh and I call and talk to each other.

Speaker: That's pretty much how the show goes.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: So this is a, we feel very blessed that anybody is willing to like hop in and find our conversations meaningful.

Speaker: So we appreciate it whether or not we have guests, which we've had amazing guests.

Speaker: We're using this episode as a catch up episode.

Speaker: But we really appreciate everybody who's reached out to us, the friendships, and,

Speaker: and us being part of your pinball content that you're consuming and enjoying.

Speaker: So thank you so much.

Speaker: It did make me chuckle because there was a comment of like, we're stern shills.

Speaker: And I'm like, oh, finally, our badge.

Speaker: We're shills.

Speaker: But it was funny because they were saying it because of the Seth Davis episode.

Speaker: I'm like, oh, yes, because the previous episode was the president of American.

Speaker: And the episode before that was the president.

Speaker: What is bug from Spooky, the owner, the president?

Speaker: Certainly, certainly the main driver, you know, here's the bottom line.

Speaker: We, we are a, we're a family friendly show.

Speaker: Yep.

Speaker: We try to focus on the negative content.

Speaker: Oh, sorry.

Speaker: Why you edit that?

Speaker: We try to focus on the positive content because.

Speaker: In any hobby, unfortunately, it seems that everything boils down to focusing on the things that we don't like about it.

Speaker: So we really do go out of our way to make sure we emphasize the positive things.

Speaker: Now, are there negative things?

Speaker: Absolutely.

Speaker: And we talk about those too.

Speaker: But if we tend to come across as overly enthusiastic, it's really because we are trying to give you a positive escape to your hobby because that's why you go and have a hobby.

Speaker: And so we, again, we appreciate everybody who's come on.

Speaker: We appreciate all the people who come in and allow us to interview them because that's a big ask.

Speaker: Yeah, it really is.

Speaker: So, so we, we do appreciate all that.

Speaker: Well, not only that, like it, I mean, this last month,

Speaker: was insane this last six weeks like i didn't even think about before before uh bug right but point or people were pointing out we had ray day on after metallica release john borg then joined us yep and we had you know bug from spooky

Speaker: talking about evil dead, we're pretty much on a release, you know, release episode for that, for evil dead.

Speaker: Then, then fix us to come on our show.

Speaker: Sure.

Speaker: And we talked about American and we talked about American and then Seth Davis out of nowhere is like, let's talk.

Speaker: And we're like, you've been working with this.

Speaker: We have been working with it.

Speaker: This, this was just a great time for us to meet up with Seth and to meet him.

Speaker: Cause a lot of people at least know who Gary is.

Speaker: Yep.

Speaker: But Seth is someone who he's,

Speaker: He's newish to our world of the fan content, but he's been involved in some way with pinball licensing marketing toys.

Speaker: So it's really nice to get his perspective.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And I don't think when I was doing our research, there really hasn't been a Seth Davis interview.

Speaker: No.

Speaker: So it was kind of hard to do some research because the man has worked at Stern for three years.

Speaker: But it wasn't.

Speaker: I didn't know what to ask him.

Speaker: And that's the thing.

Speaker: I do appreciate... I did highlight one negative comment.

Speaker: The rest has been pretty much positive.

Speaker: And people wanted to thank us for...

Speaker: Not only being positive, but we were hitting the hard-hitting questions.

Speaker: We ask questions.

Speaker: And we do tell people when they come on, by the way.

Speaker: We said, we will ask all questions.

Speaker: If you want to answer them, that's great.

Speaker: And we're happy to edit things if you don't want to talk about it.

Speaker: But to be blunt, on all the interviews we have done, we've only edited one question.

Speaker: of all the interviews.

Speaker: And so that shows that like, we really are asking the questions and the people who are making the content want to talk to us.

Speaker: They want to talk to you, the listener.

Speaker: They want to tell you about what's going on in pinball.

Speaker: So it's been great.

Speaker: Well, funny behind the scenes.

Speaker: I can't remember.

Speaker: I don't know if you're talking about what I'm thinking about when you said we had to edit one question.

Speaker: It wasn't a question.

Speaker: There was one where it was our interview with Steve Ritchie.

Speaker: And he's like, here's Jack danger.

Speaker: He's working here now.

Speaker: And we're like,

Speaker: Oh, okay.

Speaker: Like I'm just editing the next day.

Speaker: Rumors, but yeah, I got one from Zach Sharp.

Speaker: I'm not going to name everyone.

Speaker: What did you do?

Speaker: Like, Hey, we're weird.

Speaker: Again, we want to keep good relationships with people.

Speaker: We will still ask the hard questions, but we are going to maintain a positive influence on the hobby.

Speaker: So we knew at least six months before, before everything was announced.

Speaker: It was still fun though.

Speaker: It was great.

Speaker: And that's been years now.

Speaker: So I think we can talk about that.

Speaker: So, but no, that's, it's, it's really insane.

Speaker: Like I said, that is insane.

Speaker: Thank you.

Speaker: I know that we're, we're producing content that you guys want to watch.

Speaker: So we just appreciate you tuning in.

Speaker: Like I said, hit the subscribe button.

Speaker: I mean,

Speaker: 60,000 people or 900 subscribers.

Speaker: Granted, we gained 400 just in the month of December.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: So awesome.

Speaker: Again, thank you guys.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: Sorry.

Speaker: That's just you two numbers.

Speaker: So we're done with the self congratulations.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: Thank you.

Speaker: One thing we do want to talk about is whoopies are, it is whoopie time again.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: So I I'll take this one because I think that I,

Speaker: for better or worse, I impacted the way Twippies went last year.

Speaker: You killed them last year.

Speaker: Way to go.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: Let's just say that I thought a few people crossed the line and I thought things were getting a little out of hand for something that should be a positive thing.

Speaker: Now, I'm glad that they were able to work something out last year.

Speaker: They were able to work something and we're glad to be a part of that.

Speaker: We are also excited that they are bringing them back and we just want to, Hey,

Speaker: we want people to support the Twippies because the bottom line is content creators really do care about this.

Speaker: We care about it.

Speaker: Other people care about it.

Speaker: And it does make, it makes the effort feel like you guys are listening to us.

Speaker: And so if you feel so inclined, please go and, and vote, vote your conscience.

Speaker: I don't care.

Speaker: Obviously if you vote for us, we'll appreciate it.

Speaker: But if you feel like, Hey, someone else deserves to vote, go ahead, but just support Colin, make sure that,

Speaker: you're able to get this in, I think by the 20th, right, Josh?

Speaker: Yep.

Speaker: By the 20th.

Speaker: So we're, we're five days away.

Speaker: If this releases tomorrow, we're recording on the 14th.

Speaker: So on the 20th, just have your vote in just support.

Speaker: And we appreciate everything that Colin and other people, all the content creators who are doing things we're appreciating for them to be involved.

Speaker: And we, we just want to keep it positive.

Speaker: So let's keep pinball positive.

Speaker: Well, not only that, like last year, we kind of we went off on the fact that like there's a lot of drama that's created by the Twippy Awards.

Speaker: And so we were kind of like, it's not worth the drama versus what the program is.

Speaker: It was originally when Zach, Zach, many and Jeff Patterson got together and they started doing this and making into a bigger thing.

Speaker: It was an incentive to make content creators feel like they were being recognized for the work they were doing and to help incentivize and making themselves bigger and grow the hobby.

Speaker: And it seemed like the last couple of years, it just become more of drama than it was what it was originally meant to be.

Speaker: So we had suggested shut it down.

Speaker: It's not worth your time.

Speaker: And when you're getting berated behind the scenes, it's easy to agree.

Speaker: Like we probably shouldn't be doing this.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: And so Colin, you know, Colin and Will decided, let's put the kibosh on it.

Speaker: They asked us just to do the video.

Speaker: They didn't ask us to do what we did.

Speaker: I felt awkward.

Speaker: They just want us to read the results originally for the 2023 twippies.

Speaker: And we were kind of like, no, we're going to at least put some video to this, you know?

Speaker: And so we've got some congratulation stuff, but we thought last year was it.

Speaker: And it was funny because Colin, uh,

Speaker: did the media mixer at Expo and he had so much positive response of, please, we bring back the awards.

Speaker: And even when they got shut down last year, there was a lot of content creators that said, this really means something to us.

Speaker: We should keep this going.

Speaker: And so I applaud Will and Colin and Colin for bringing all these people back together.

Speaker: Making it work.

Speaker: Making it work.

Speaker: Yes.

Speaker: And I know they're doing, it's not the Twippies.

Speaker: I think they're trying to change it to the People's Choice Awards or something like that, which is great.

Speaker: But I think it goes to show that our perception was it wasn't worth the time because it's a lot of drama.

Speaker: And it's great to see that the rest of the industry doesn't feel like that.

Speaker: And so...

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: And to be blunt, we also feel that, again, the focus is on the positive aspects.

Speaker: And so anything that makes it positive, great.

Speaker: Right now, it feels like there are positive vibes with this award.

Speaker: So please go ahead and go and vote and vote.

Speaker: and participate we appreciate it show your show your support so and like it like scott said you don't have to vote for us truly i i do i do feel humbled because a lot of the the twippy posts i've been seeing a lot of people like so are we picking pinball show or are we picking loser kids like that's the two options this year i was like if that's how you feel cool like or triple drain i mean come on yeah triple drain is amazing

Speaker: and here's the thing.

Speaker: We do this content for us.

Speaker: I do this because I like to see behind the scenes and I felt like Scott and I have put us, put ourselves in a position.

Speaker: I mean, heck look at the D and D stuff.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: We were talking to Zach before the release.

Speaker: He's like, I'll get it lined up and we'll get you good to go.

Speaker: And on release day, we're recording with Brian, Eddie and Dwight.

Speaker: So, and that a big thank you to Stern for being able to set that up because that was, I know that they try to accommodate us because we live farther away than Chicago and it,

Speaker: The media event was in the middle of the week.

Speaker: And so it would have been a big deal for me to take that time off work to fly out there.

Speaker: And I know Josh couldn't make it either because he had family health issues too.

Speaker: But I'm really grateful that Stern was able to work with us so we could participate in the launch of a product because we love products.

Speaker: It's awesome.

Speaker: We love Stern.

Speaker: We love American.

Speaker: We love...

Speaker: We love CGC.

Speaker: Like, Hey, obviously.

Speaker: So I have flipped around today.

Speaker: If you're watching on YouTube, I usually have my, my stern wall with walls on the side.

Speaker: Now you see the other side.

Speaker: So that now is my CGC wall and I have Metallica and Beatles flanking it.

Speaker: So doing a little bit of a work down here.

Speaker: So it should be a nicer recording area.

Speaker: So you guys should see that soon.

Speaker: So speaking of D and D, I think people have got the justice.

Speaker: Like you said, we let's move on.

Speaker: Let's talk D and D because honestly we've done, you and I haven't sat down and recorded just us since October.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: It's been a while.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: It's been a minute.

Speaker: So let's give our thoughts.

Speaker: What's our first impressions of D and D. Okay.

Speaker: We've both.

Speaker: I want to play a game and I know I didn't tell you I was going to do this.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: So I'm going to say reaction to D and D and I want you to give me one word.

Speaker: My reaction?

Speaker: You just want one word for it?

Speaker: One word.

Speaker: How would you describe it?

Speaker: Overachieved.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: What's your one word?

Speaker: Surprising.

Speaker: And I want that to be a positive, by the way.

Speaker: Because, and I would argue the same thing when we heard the rumors that everybody else heard that Godzilla was going to be a pinball machine, I legitimately thought, I'll probably skip this one.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: Um, raise your hand if you hate Godzilla.

Speaker: Anybody?

Speaker: No, no, no.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: So that was, I was dead wrong on theme alone.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: So when I heard dungeons and dragons, I thought, Hey, I like that.

Speaker: I, I, I love the cartoon as a kid, by the way.

Speaker: So just, just FYI, if you're my age and you're watching the cartoon, it was only three years, but they never recorded the finale.

Speaker: But if you go and search YouTube finale, I think it's called Requiem or something.

Speaker: But there are people who found the script and they read it out and did a radio thing of it.

Speaker: And it's really good.

Speaker: So just if you're a fan of that.

Speaker: However, I never played a lot of these role playing games.

Speaker: I played a few of them in med school and single had time.

Speaker: And I had people who were really involved, but it wasn't something that I was readily connected with.

Speaker: And I haven't played that kind of stuff in a long time.

Speaker: Now, come to now and I hear pinball.

Speaker: So I'm a lot more connected with pinball and I hear Dungeons and Dragons is going to be a theme.

Speaker: And I would argue, okay, if you were to ask me a few months ago, how would I describe my reaction to the theme Dungeons and Dragons?

Speaker: I would say puzzling.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Because I didn't see the overlap of that.

Speaker: I felt the same way about Hot Wheels, by the way.

Speaker: I see it's a huge market.

Speaker: However, how is that going to incorporate into pinball?

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: I will stand corrected that the community in Dungeons & Dragons is huge.

Speaker: And they have responded quite positively to this release.

Speaker: And they've also, it has brought new people to pinball who were really unaware about pinball before.

Speaker: Because most of the time, and I've said this before, people ask three questions when they find out you're in pinball.

Speaker: The first question is, they still make those?

Speaker: Second question is, can I come over and play?

Speaker: And the third question is always, how much do they cost?

Speaker: So,

Speaker: When you are able to incorporate a huge fan base who is really motivated to spend money on their product into the community, that's a huge thing.

Speaker: Now add to that Dwight Sullivan, who's a huge gamer, by the way, and that's what Dwight does.

Speaker: So his involvement in bringing that expertise to a pinball machine and the coding is huge.

Speaker: I am super ecstatic for Brian Eddie too, because this layout seems to be a legit hit.

Speaker: Yep.

Speaker: And that is a breath of fresh air because I think a lot of times he was relying on the fan layout, which I think was excellent for the 90s, but I think you need more now.

Speaker: And so for him to incorporate that into this layout is huge.

Speaker: And I'm ecstatic that it's been so well received and the people playing it think it's a lot of fun.

Speaker: Now I have talked for like three minutes straight, Josh.

Speaker: Now your turn.

Speaker: You tell me about Dungeons and Dragons.

Speaker: I'm right there on the same page with you of like, it's a theme that I wasn't excited for.

Speaker: I don't have, like, I do remember playing Dungeons and Dragons occasionally.

Speaker: As a child in my teenage years, it wasn't something that I actually built a character and took with me to a friend's house.

Speaker: It was one of those, like, I went to a friend's house and they just happened to be playing it and they said, here's a piece of paper.

Speaker: Didn't go much more past that.

Speaker: You can play an NPC.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: I'm more of a, like, if I'm going to play those kind of games, I like Diablo.

Speaker: I like playing Balter's Gate.

Speaker: Just those games that are kind of pretty much derivative of Dungeons and Dragons, but it's in video game form.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: So I wasn't super excited for this one.

Speaker: And I was, I really was, like you said, surprised.

Speaker: So when they actually showed this thing, I'm like, wow, this is pretty cool.

Speaker: The dungeon, the dragon's head is pretty cool.

Speaker: Then you start hearing the list of people that were involved.

Speaker: And then when we interviewed Dwight, all the voice actors talk about that.

Speaker: I mean, they, they spent a lot of investment to get the, the voice acting into this because you don't really hear it on location.

Speaker: So they knew that they were targeting a home environment for this.

Speaker: If they're going to spend money on like what?

Speaker: 11 voice actors, at least you're going to, you're going to be expecting a home environment to hear that.

Speaker: Well, not only that, like,

Speaker: it shocked me how many big names were involved.

Speaker: Kevin Smith, you know, Jay and Silent Bob, I'd brought that up with Dwight and them.

Speaker: You know, Brandon Smalls, one of your favorite guys, he did the, oh, the Brothers.

Speaker: It's losing my mind now.

Speaker: The Venture Brothers.

Speaker: Oh, yeah.

Speaker: Oh, my gosh.

Speaker: I totally forgot that he did.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And Metalpocalypse.

Speaker: And, you know, he just... I'm surprised you can say that.

Speaker: Every time I try to say Metalpocalypse,

Speaker: Metalpocalypse?

Speaker: Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker: It's like I can't.

Speaker: I have a stutter.

Speaker: Metalocalypse.

Speaker: That's how I always try.

Speaker: Secretly, I was listening to Dennis and Zach today, and I was practicing in the van the whole night.

Speaker: I can't say metalocalypse.

Speaker: Now I'm hearing you and I'm messing.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: Gerard way.

Speaker: That is a big name for my teenage years.

Speaker: He's the main singer.

Speaker: My chemical romance.

Speaker: He also did the umbrella Academy, which was a comic book that then turned into a TV series.

Speaker: He's done plenty of stuff with Marvel and whatnot.

Speaker: We got morph.

Speaker: We got morph.

Speaker: I mean, there's a lot of, I joked that Joe Manginelli,

Speaker: Is that how you say his name?

Speaker: He's the dancer dude, right?

Speaker: Who married Sofia Varga or something like that?

Speaker: I remember him from How I Met Your Mother.

Speaker: He was always like Marshall's best friend.

Speaker: I just remember him as the dude who was on Magic Mike or something.

Speaker: There's so many people that are involved.

Speaker: It made me think of a couple things.

Speaker: Wow, there's a lot of stuff they've thrown into this game.

Speaker: The teams that Dwight was talking about...

Speaker: Here's my concern of this is like, this game is amazing.

Speaker: Like it really, they've really went above and beyond.

Speaker: My question is though, is it on par with what Elwyn usually releases?

Speaker: If that is the case, like if you feel like Jaws is at the same place as what Dungeons and Dragons is, gameplay wise, and granted, I'm comparing two games where like Elwyn's kind of score-based, he rewards you for playing score.

Speaker: This is more of an adventure.

Speaker: You're going through a story.

Speaker: You're trying to get to the endings.

Speaker: It almost is like the score doesn't really... It plays into the gameplay, right?

Speaker: But it doesn't really affect the drive of why you're playing this game.

Speaker: You're playing it for the adventure, right?

Speaker: You can get scores.

Speaker: However, it seems like this code is intentionally driven so you will go through and complete the quests.

Speaker: You want to level up.

Speaker: You want to do different things.

Speaker: You want to fight different dragons.

Speaker: There's basically three wizard modes.

Speaker: Ultimate wizard.

Speaker: That tells me that they made this, at least the philosophy, a lot closer to a video game.

Speaker: while incorporating pinball as the primary driver.

Speaker: Yep.

Speaker: So here's my concern.

Speaker: Dwight told us and Eddie told us on the interview that they've, they've thrown so many people in this game, right?

Speaker: Elizabeth Gieske, who did the mode, some of the modes and jaws.

Speaker: I love scars.

Speaker: It's very memorable.

Speaker: I love that she's on D and D because I think she can bring a lot to the table with modes.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: Mm hmm.

Speaker: they talked about the animation team they used pretty much everyone in stern plus they hired what they say five to seven more outside of store because they had a lot more video content to generate correct and so it was starting to shock me how many people were involved with this project and the thing is is i feel like this project is where pinball should be right when we're releasing

Speaker: And I know that it's funny because... They had extra time.

Speaker: They did have extra time.

Speaker: They did not confirm or deny whether the dragon mech was actually what was dragging them behind.

Speaker: Sure.

Speaker: If it were, though, if it were, I would argue that's a good reason to delay the game.

Speaker: Third thing on that mech, by the way, we have had confirmation that is not the mech Keith Owen was talking about.

Speaker: Yeah, it's a different mech.

Speaker: So that tells me Stern is the...

Speaker: Like they are the toy guys.

Speaker: Like they make cool stuff.

Speaker: And okay.

Speaker: When people come over to my house, the, one of the first games they always play is medieval madness.

Speaker: And what do they always do?

Speaker: Like, do you think medieval madness would be half the game?

Speaker: It is without the, the castle.

Speaker: No, there's no way.

Speaker: And that's actually, that's a visual aspect, but the code is it's, it's different.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Like you could, you could just put up a standup castle that just like has a flasher on it and it wouldn't be the same game.

Speaker: So that tells me that that's part of the experience of pinball.

Speaker: Well, the other thing too is, is let's be honest.

Speaker: Like we're talking to Seth Davis.

Speaker: They're talking about vault, you know, putting these games in a vault.

Speaker: They say Deadpool, which gets good boosts.

Speaker: It's, it's still selling good.

Speaker: Star Wars, which is one of the top selling games ever.

Speaker: Shocking.

Speaker: Which is funny because like are putting Star Wars in a vault.

Speaker: Yeah, absolute shocker.

Speaker: I mean, we're talking games that are guaranteed sellers, right?

Speaker: Like Iron Maiden still sells when they make another batch.

Speaker: They only can make it once a year, but they still sell, right?

Speaker: So when you're telling me you're getting rid of those titles in favor of Dungeons & Dragons, I'm a little like, are we doing this right?

Speaker: After seeing this game, you're doing it right.

Speaker: My, okay.

Speaker: I wish we could have went to media.

Speaker: They're certainly making a calculated risk.

Speaker: Yes.

Speaker: Calculated risk.

Speaker: Now they could be wrong.

Speaker: They could be right.

Speaker: But Stern's also in the position that they can make that risk.

Speaker: I think this release has went way better than any other.

Speaker: Well, not any other release in recent Stern history, but I think they're starting to learn like the manicured play.

Speaker: video for the premium.

Speaker: Yes.

Speaker: Really rated one where they made sure that they had a good presentation because that means so much more than four drunk guys playing a game and breaking shots.

Speaker: The five minute video of this is our game.

Speaker: Yep.

Speaker: You know, George Gomez going off about the highlights with Eddie and Dwight with their excitement.

Speaker: I might tune our own horn right now, but to have a podcast like us come out to give an hour plus long content of a deep dive of this game.

Speaker: That way people can understand what's going on.

Speaker: Oh, like, so between all this, it felt like just the perfect storm.

Speaker: And then the media goes out on Tuesday after Friday release and they play this game and people are just smiling while playing this game.

Speaker: And it's just, it's, it's all done so well.

Speaker: I just, my thought process is I'm getting a new game this year because I, Foo Fighters is probably leaving.

Speaker: I, I'm, I'm looking at this game.

Speaker: I'm looking at it.

Speaker: I'm waiting.

Speaker: I'm waiting for L1s in April.

Speaker: Sure.

Speaker: And I'm either going to go L1 or D&D.

Speaker: That's, that's kind of where I'm at this point, which is, which is crazy because I mean, if, if Pokemon is really a thing, my kids aren't going to say no to that.

Speaker: So,

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And you know what?

Speaker: You can play Pokemon.

Speaker: That's fine.

Speaker: That's not my thing.

Speaker: Not my bag, baby.

Speaker: How about you buy it and then I'll just borrow it for a little while.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: No, my Deadpool is on loan right now.

Speaker: So back to my concern, though, like D&D, if this is throwing everything they've got at Stern plus hiring people outside of Stern to get to this level.

Speaker: Does it set the bar too high?

Speaker: Like, L1's next.

Speaker: So I'm going to say L1 can hit the bar with just Team L1.

Speaker: L1's automatic.

Speaker: Yeah, Team L1, Rick Nagel, L1.

Speaker: That team can just...

Speaker: knock it out of the park every time.

Speaker: And so I'm not worried about them, but what does it mean going forward for other releases?

Speaker: It's the expectation high.

Speaker: I will put that out.

Speaker: And unfortunately for X-Men, it was released and it started really hot.

Speaker: And unfortunately the depth isn't there right now.

Speaker: I think it will be in,

Speaker: I will point out Deadpool was very similar.

Speaker: And so you're still in good company by saying that, Hey, if you release and people are like, well, I mean, the code's not quite real done.

Speaker: Now it has two strikes against them.

Speaker: One, it was moved way up.

Speaker: And so that, that's not really fair that, that we can't expect it to be a high thing.

Speaker: However,

Speaker: you're going to be comparing the other strikers.

Speaker: You're going to be comparing with other games at their release point.

Speaker: And so when you have that and you also have Metallica over my shoulder, which is obviously a complete code, or at least as near complete as you can because it's a finished game.

Speaker: You also have...

Speaker: with Dungeons & Dragons coming out with a deep code set to start with.

Speaker: That's hard.

Speaker: So people are going to expect that from now on.

Speaker: And like I said, I don't expect code to be complete when a release.

Speaker: I do want some flexibility.

Speaker: It needs to be full enough, though.

Speaker: Yes.

Speaker: Like Ellen said, though, with Iron Maiden, it pretty much came out 1.0 code, and there wasn't much that they could do to change it.

Speaker: They said the problem was it was so far along that they just...

Speaker: It is what it is.

Speaker: But with the other games moving forward after that, and they all, every software designer is like required.

Speaker: I remember at the, our media day, we went in May.

Speaker: They're required to have 7.5 when they release, or whatever it is, or 7.3.

Speaker: 0.75.

Speaker: That's the thing is code's subjective.

Speaker: So it's up to the coder.

Speaker: Yeah, this is 7.3.

Speaker: Yeah, it's far enough.

Speaker: But people playing will know, no, this is not where it should be.

Speaker: You can't fake it.

Speaker: Because people who play enough pinball are going to recognize how complete a code is.

Speaker: And a lot of people, they're forgiving, by the way, they're forgiving.

Speaker: If they're like, Hey, things change.

Speaker: I'm Dwight completely rewrote game of Thrones code.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: So they are forgiving.

Speaker: However, there really is an expectation of making a certain level when you release a game.

Speaker: And you know what, if you're paying six to $13,000 for a game, that's a reasonable expectation.

Speaker: I agree.

Speaker: Well, and people saying that they need to, you know,

Speaker: they're like, well, with X-Men, you know, yeah, it stinks.

Speaker: They got it out and it wasn't ready, but it can cook for the next year and then it'll start selling in a year.

Speaker: Honestly, most of your, your big sales come from day one.

Speaker: Like that first two weeks is vital.

Speaker: And so it's unusual.

Speaker: It's unusual to have a second wind on a game.

Speaker: It really is.

Speaker: I think bond is kind of a, um, uh, exception to the rule.

Speaker: uh stranger things at some point too however stranger things was also it was very similar to attack from mars and because it was rare enough because they didn't make a lot of them then that also contributed to it i think also like gardens of the galaxy so there are exceptions to the rules there are i will say eventually most games get there yep so overall i'm impressed what do you think scott

Speaker: I would give a thumbs up and I'm certainly excited to get one.

Speaker: And I, I do want to have one in my home so I can explore it because there, there's a lot of stuff that I cannot do on location or I can't experience the way I want to on location.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Let's, I think we've talked enough about D and D let's, let's, we got plenty on this list.

Speaker: Let's talk about,

Speaker: the hot interview, it was not our most listened to or watched interview, but it was probably the most talked about.

Speaker: The David Fix interview, I think between

Speaker: the questions we asked and the responses we got, there was some pretty big fireworks, fireworks, fireworks.

Speaker: Um, can I want to give a little, some background may lift the curtain a little bit on this one too.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: So like I said, David fixed it.

Speaker: Call us or he messaged me and said, Hey, we need to do this interview.

Speaker: I said, okay, like we can have you on and I'm not going to lie.

Speaker: American pinball.

Speaker: The numbers aren't great when we have David fix on.

Speaker: So I was like, I would say that it's, uh,

Speaker: It makes sense anytime you have the monsters of sales out there.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Like people are going to naturally go toward content that is catered around big sellers, right?

Speaker: American pinball is not a big seller.

Speaker: And so the numbers do reflect that in our content.

Speaker: So I was a little hesitant, but I said, sure, you can come on.

Speaker: And I think this was on like a Tuesday, I want to say.

Speaker: And he's like, okay, we need to, I need this out by like Friday.

Speaker: And I said, okay, like, okay, let's do it.

Speaker: Sure.

Speaker: When do you want to record?

Speaker: And we all kind of agreed Thursday at lunchtime.

Speaker: I think it was, or I think we took a late lunch.

Speaker: It was like one or two.

Speaker: And so I kind of burned the midnight oil and got this interview on,

Speaker: up and going six o'clock Friday morning, our time Mountain Standard Time, seven, seven and eight moving on.

Speaker: And it was kind of funny because there was such a rush to get this episode out.

Speaker: I get a message from fix like an hour after release.

Speaker: He's like, yeah, I need you to like retract it.

Speaker: I was like,

Speaker: hold for a bit and we're like it's been out most people auto down i'm like i don't know if we can because once we put into the rs rss feed like youtube i can set it to private or unlisted or wherever it is and it hides it you know but with rss feed once it pushes out it can't pull it back right

Speaker: I don't have control.

Speaker: It's on your phone.

Speaker: It's on your phone.

Speaker: And if people download it, and so that's why some people are like, well, I can't actually see the episode.

Speaker: What's going on?

Speaker: But some people are like, I can listen to it just fine.

Speaker: That's what was happening.

Speaker: I put everything on pause in hopes that

Speaker: legit you did that for like an hour and then he basically said yeah he's like too many people have heard it yeah just just release the you know release the hounds so yeah we released the kraken uh it just such a wild interview especially now that like

Speaker: I don't know what was going on behind the scenes.

Speaker: I don't know why it was like, hold off, things have changed here.

Speaker: And I was like, what does that even mean to me?

Speaker: You know what I'm saying?

Speaker: It's a peak, though, at these are real companies with real issues and real production goals.

Speaker: And there are things that they need to meet to keep the lights on.

Speaker: Well, last week we got the news that Fix had been let go.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: I think he's listening back to the interview now.

Speaker: I think he knew he was on the chopping block and that's why he came out.

Speaker: Which is fine.

Speaker: And I actually, I did reach out to him.

Speaker: I haven't heard back as of this recording, but I did reach out because, Hey, we're still about positivity and making sure that everything's okay and everything's good with him.

Speaker: I do have one answer to the question.

Speaker: One question we asked.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: So we asked, because Fix talked about Polycade a lot.

Speaker: I'm like, what the heck with Polycade?

Speaker: Why is this a thing now?

Speaker: Like, where is this Polycade thing coming from?

Speaker: So come to find out.

Speaker: You can look this up on LinkedIn.

Speaker: I did not.

Speaker: This is not like secret information or whatnot.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: So the gentleman that took Fix's position, Ron Lindman.

Speaker: I hope I said that right.

Speaker: Ron Lindman.

Speaker: You can Google him, whatever you want to do.

Speaker: He came from Polycade.

Speaker: He's actually only worked at American since February.

Speaker: And now he has David Fix's position and they're producing polycade.

Speaker: So I'm assuming they're at least the middleman for polycade, you know?

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: So it's now I will say this is okay.

Speaker: This is American pinball 4.0.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And I, I hope that they find their lane because all, you know,

Speaker: Pinball is good.

Speaker: All, you know, the, the tide rises all ships, so to speak.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And I'm excited when I hear about what the next game is likely going to be and what the likely layout is going to be.

Speaker: I think it would be a big step up for them if they can get to that point.

Speaker: And I'm just hopeful they can.

Speaker: Well, let's talk about the next game.

Speaker: We're not going to give names or details or whatnot, but there has been a couple of questions that I keep hearing that are legitimate questions.

Speaker: If they release this game,

Speaker: Are people going to buy it?

Speaker: Because you fired everyone that worked at American.

Speaker: There's already been a question of quality.

Speaker: I definitely learned that after we recorded an episode.

Speaker: There was people recording videos and tagging us in it saying, I bought an American game.

Speaker: I've had no little support.

Speaker: On the episode, Fix just said, just call us.

Speaker: I've tried calling.

Speaker: No one's answering.

Speaker: I'm frustrated.

Speaker: And so it was like, oh, this is a sore spot that I was not aware of.

Speaker: And hey, but that legit that it now I have heard that about almost every manufacturer.

Speaker: I would say more.

Speaker: I've heard it with American pinball.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And there are other companies that tend to have more glitches.

Speaker: I'll just put it this way.

Speaker: If you go to an arcade, just look at the games that are on and the games that are off.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And you're going to see which ones are more stable because people want stable games.

Speaker: Well, and the other thing too is after we heard Fix was gone, I didn't dare to call him to be like, hey, I need, I want a number to the new guy essentially, you know?

Speaker: So I've tried to get a hold of American.

Speaker: They're not answering their phones.

Speaker: You type zero.

Speaker: I know it's different today.

Speaker: I checked it again today.

Speaker: But last week, if you press zero for operator, it would tell you invalid option.

Speaker: If you did it twice, it would hang up on you.

Speaker: That's not a great sign.

Speaker: And so it's like, whatever.

Speaker: Hopefully they're in a rebooting mode and hopefully this is, this is new news, right?

Speaker: I'm hoping they can figure out what they want to do.

Speaker: Like I said, there's a lot of information we were given behind the scenes.

Speaker: We're not going to relay it here, but I will tell you one thing that we were told that we could say American pinball will release their next game, whether they like it or not, they're contractually obligated to release the next game.

Speaker: It's all I can tell you.

Speaker: So all these people are saying, well, will it release?

Speaker: No, it has to release.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And you can.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: They're supposed to release it.

Speaker: I guess I'll put it that way.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: I guess there'd just be more lawsuits on top of current lawsuits they have.

Speaker: But it does, I will say, it sounds cool.

Speaker: It really does.

Speaker: And all indications that Ryan did a good job on the design.

Speaker: Now, how they're able to take it.

Speaker: Don's seen it.

Speaker: Carrie Hardy's now seen it.

Speaker: Yeah, we've seen it.

Speaker: Wink, wink.

Speaker: So don't ask us.

Speaker: We're not going to tell you about it, even behind the scenes.

Speaker: But point being is, is everyone that I've talked to that has seen this game or had hands on this game has legitimately said that like this game can pull them out of the rut they're in.

Speaker: And I totally agree.

Speaker: So yeah, by far their best looking layout.

Speaker: My concern is I just, I think you need to hire back Ryan McQuaid.

Speaker: Like the dude that designed it should be on the line, helping those people had to assemble, assemble that game.

Speaker: Yep.

Speaker: Who's coding it.

Speaker: That's what they need to figure out, right?

Speaker: They need to figure out the code.

Speaker: They need to figure out like tweaking, you know, fine tuning the design.

Speaker: Now we do know designs can be fine tuned without the primary person on.

Speaker: We know that Elvira does.

Speaker: You know, the house of horrors was, was not fine tuned by Dennis.

Speaker: So it can be done.

Speaker: It would be nice though, if Ryan were able to be brought back into the fold and so he could fix that.

Speaker: Yep.

Speaker: Get, get bound back working on code.

Speaker: I just, it's really weird that you, if you're contractually obligated to make a game, you fire your whole team that makes the game.

Speaker: Well, okay.

Speaker: Now they weren't fired.

Speaker: They were laid off.

Speaker: They were laid off.

Speaker: Well, I will say that is the difference.

Speaker: There is a big difference between fired and laid off because laid off implies that the revenue stream is not there to be able to maintain their employment.

Speaker: And that's always been...

Speaker: everything I've said about American pinball.

Speaker: Like I know how basic business works and you need to look at revenue in revenue out or sorry, revenue in cost, which is clues fixed costs.

Speaker: Like you actually have to make those balance at some level.

Speaker: Yep.

Speaker: I agree.

Speaker: I don't know if there's anything else more we can say about American.

Speaker: I am intrigued to see where they're going to go over these next few months.

Speaker: I'm excited for the next game.

Speaker: Like, seriously, I want to play this game, get my hands on it.

Speaker: I just think that your biggest hurdle right now, like Ron Mukesh, if you're listening,

Speaker: I hope you are.

Speaker: Your biggest hurdle right now is people don't have faith in your customer service.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: You're going to have to fix that.

Speaker: Correct.

Speaker: And you need to do it now because when you release a product, people are going to want to say, oh, if it breaks, because pinball is mechanical, it does break.

Speaker: They're going to feel comfortable with people being able to answer phones and say, hey, I need you to do this, this, and this to fix it.

Speaker: And young companies, they are more prone to reliability issues.

Speaker: But like Spooky's, I mean, they've been around for a decade.

Speaker: They're still a smaller operation.

Speaker: They're getting better.

Speaker: Like they are getting better.

Speaker: They've had issues with reliability too.

Speaker: However, they've also been responsive.

Speaker: Exactly.

Speaker: They've been responsive.

Speaker: They've been very good at that.

Speaker: And they're constantly working on their quality.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Right?

Speaker: Like obviously there was a shift from Rick and Morty to Halloween.

Speaker: And we can all agree upon that.

Speaker: Right?

Speaker: Halloween was amazing.

Speaker: There was a bug at one point in time in Halloween that if you selected a mode that was not in the game yet, it freaked out the game.

Speaker: All the coils and everything would fire.

Speaker: And then the game would just start.

Speaker: Like, I know one guy that had the game and did that.

Speaker: And he's like, I just want to see what happens.

Speaker: And he's like, oh, the game's going wild, right?

Speaker: And he's like, it was funny until the game started smoking.

Speaker: Then he shut it off.

Speaker: So they're not having those issues with Spooky.

Speaker: Spooky's done a lot better and they continually improve.

Speaker: And so people are willing to give them a pass.

Speaker: on, uh, you know, okay.

Speaker: They're willing to be optimistic about the direction of the company, but you need to start a trend line so people can be optimistic about your company.

Speaker: And just like bug said in our interview, you're going to have issues that it just is what it is, but they're taking those quality issues they've had in the past or they're learning from, and they're applying them to new games and it shows.

Speaker: people aren't going to want to do that with a company that's not even responding or acknowledging the issue.

Speaker: So thanks.

Speaker: Customer service is a big deal.

Speaker: And that's why people go with flipping out pinball because they got the best customer service in the industry.

Speaker: And so Greg bone, good man.

Speaker: Yes.

Speaker: He's man.

Speaker: He's messaged me.

Speaker: I can't remember what game I was even having an issue on, but he took something out of his own game and sent it to me because it was on that order.

Speaker: Yep.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: So,

Speaker: You want to talk about the rumor of Harry Potter coming from, this is, everyone else is talking about it.

Speaker: I'm like, is there anything we have to add?

Speaker: Joe Cam and Cal said it out.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: What are you hoping for?

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Maybe, maybe not.

Speaker: Is it even?

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: So what are you expecting with Harry Potter?

Speaker: That's the, it's a two part question.

Speaker: What are you expecting with it?

Speaker: And is it possible for them to meet the expectation?

Speaker: I will, I will frame this question by saying I am the biggest star Wars fan, at least early star Wars, you know, from when I was a kid.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: So my expectations were sky high.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: I saw Stern Star Wars and I was in on an LE and I said, I'm out.

Speaker: I didn't buy it.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: So that is the context of my question.

Speaker: Josh, I know you have like a, a Sharpie tattoo on your forehead of a lightning bolt.

Speaker: So I do not tell me about Harry Potter.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: I enjoy Harry Potter.

Speaker: I'm not going to dress up in my wizard robes.

Speaker: I'm not going to go.

Speaker: I've enjoyed the movies.

Speaker: I've enjoyed the books.

Speaker: I don't know if I've watched.

Speaker: I've not read the books more than once.

Speaker: I've not seen the movies more than twice a piece.

Speaker: It is something that means a lot to my children.

Speaker: My eldest has listened to the books on Audible every night since he was like seven, and he's 14 now.

Speaker: He loves those books.

Speaker: When he finishes another book, his go back to is Harry Potter.

Speaker: I think I'm right there with you.

Speaker: I think the problem is the license is so huge.

Speaker: I've tempered my expectations because I'm like, there's no way they can meet every expectation of this franchise.

Speaker: It's just, it's impossible.

Speaker: So my, I do, and I don't have concerns because like looking at star Wars, like you said, it's star Wars is one of the top three selling games of all time for Stern.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: Um, then I think just having the license alone for Harry Potter is going to be a smash hit for JJP.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And criticism aside, like they really, like, honestly, if this is, if this license is a biggest seller as star Wars or bigger, they don't need to, it doesn't matter what the criticism is because they're going to sell like hotcakes regardless.

Speaker: So however, it's a way of setting themselves up for future releases though.

Speaker: Yes.

Speaker: So if you get Harry Potter and you're a huge Harry Potter fan,

Speaker: And they meet those expectations.

Speaker: You're going to say, hey, what are they doing on the next game?

Speaker: If you're a huge Harry Potter fan and you still buy it, but you're disappointed when you buy it, it's going to affect their next game.

Speaker: Here's my wishes.

Speaker: First off, we've said this before.

Speaker: We've said multiple times on the episode, it is nothing against Jersey Jack.

Speaker: They're just out of my price range.

Speaker: I cannot buy into a box.

Speaker: So I'm not your target audience.

Speaker: But...

Speaker: if this is Eric, I love Eric's designs.

Speaker: I think we need to get back Eric to pirates of the Caribbean days.

Speaker: I feel like there was a lot of innovation there.

Speaker: Don't get me wrong.

Speaker: I love Godfather.

Speaker: Um, I love his other games.

Speaker: He's made guns and roses.

Speaker: I think there's a lot of cool things in those games, but pirates just kind of hit on a different level, right?

Speaker: There was some really cool mix.

Speaker: Um, there was an enthusiasm there for that design that I haven't felt.

Speaker: And so for a little bit, and it was, I hope we can probably overly ambitious.

Speaker: I, I, I will, the criticism for pirates for me is it was overly ambitious and maybe what, what I would point out is that,

Speaker: killed sales on pirates of the Caribbean because the first feature that they talked about was a triple spinning disc, which really in the grand scheme of things is not a big deal.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: But it is a cool feature, but it's not really the layout of the game, the rules of the game, the flow of the game.

Speaker: But when that was the first thing you were touting and then you end up taking it out of the game and

Speaker: I think people were rightly concerned.

Speaker: But now, I still argue they've finished the code.

Speaker: Re-up the license, make a thousand of these, and you will sell them.

Speaker: You're a company.

Speaker: You will make money, sell these things.

Speaker: You're a better company.

Speaker: You can fix whatever issues there were with that big design.

Speaker: So my point being is just with Harry Potter, I think a lot of people need to temper their expectations.

Speaker: I think if this does sell like hotcakes, like it is, then I'm not worried about picking up one later for cheaper.

Speaker: Because Jersey Jack Pinball has proved when they have small runs, their games retain their value.

Speaker: When they have big runs, they drop in value.

Speaker: So, well, any company to be blunt, any company will be that.

Speaker: So sell your 5,000 Harry Potters and awesome.

Speaker: I'll pick one up in six months to a year at eight grand, nine grand.

Speaker: I am hoping I'm optimistic because Eric obviously is a seasoned veteran at this point.

Speaker: He will likely do something that is,

Speaker: A mix of experimentation but safety because you still want this game to be played a lot.

Speaker: You want some level of Steve Ritchie flow in there.

Speaker: You're going to want that.

Speaker: Steve is actually at Jersey Jack now.

Speaker: And so for him to be able to

Speaker: to help mentor flow.

Speaker: Cause that's the one thing that Jersey Jack games have not had aside from Elton John.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: So if there's a way that Steve Ritchie can, Godfather shot pretty well.

Speaker: Like Eric did a great job with God.

Speaker: Eric did.

Speaker: However, there is an element of fast combo shots that a lot of their games don't haven't had, uh, aside from Elton John.

Speaker: So I'm hoping they're going to be able to incorporate that because,

Speaker: you're going to have a Quidditch match in there.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And you're going to want, that's a fast Matt.

Speaker: You're going to want something that you can, uh, you can combo shots to get the, was it the snitch, the golden snitch snitch.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And so you're going to want that kind of thing.

Speaker: Um, so I hope there is a level of speed.

Speaker: I won't say predictability, but at least familiarity with the design.

Speaker: And so I know it's a lot to ask to say, you want to take some risks, but you want a lot of it to be safe.

Speaker: But I would suggest that's the best way to go on this game.

Speaker: Well, can we say the quiet thing out loud?

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Keith Johnson, I do appreciate what you've done for pinball.

Speaker: I think Lord of the Rings and Simpsons Pinball Party, awesome.

Speaker: I think they drove pinball into a new direction.

Speaker: Yep.

Speaker: I don't feel like the code's very samey-samey from Keith.

Speaker: At Jersey Jack.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: I think it's encyclopedic too.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And I think you need to figure out how to streamline things a little bit.

Speaker: Well, because it's, I understand that you want people to see something new a lot.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: But you also want, people want to feel like they understand the game.

Speaker: And if you had a game like, okay, I've had wizard of Oz for like eight years.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: I still don't really understand what I'm supposed to do in that game.

Speaker: But my point being is when you have multiple multiballs in the game and they're literally the same rules, you've just named them different multiballs.

Speaker: I mean, it feels like we're phoning it in, right?

Speaker: Like we're just...

Speaker: I don't know.

Speaker: Don't get me wrong.

Speaker: I enjoy the code on most of these games, but it feels very samey, samey.

Speaker: It doesn't help that I feel like Stern is pushing pinball into a new era of pinball, right?

Speaker: And L1's doing that because it's not just modes.

Speaker: It's the underlying... With Jaws, I love Jaws because Jaws has got...

Speaker: It's got your modes.

Speaker: You've got your shark battles or your, your, your shark hunting trips or fishing trips, whatever it may be that's underlining that you're working towards while doing modes.

Speaker: Plus there's also the beaches that you need to close.

Speaker: That's its own thing.

Speaker: There's a lot of like nuance inside the nuance, right?

Speaker: the overall arching game is easy to understand, but there's a lot of nuance underneath that.

Speaker: I'm not saying you're not getting that with guns and roses.

Speaker: What I'm saying is it's like, there's not enough of it or not guns and roses with Keith L one's game, Keith Johnson's games, Keith Johnson's games.

Speaker: I feel like we're, we're, we're focusing on modes and multi balls either or.

Speaker: And that's about it.

Speaker: There's not much outside of that.

Speaker: I still love playing these games.

Speaker: These games are beautiful.

Speaker: They're wonderful games to have in your house.

Speaker: But I feel like Jersey Jack that was once innovating and pushing the industry is resting on its laurels at the moment, where Stern is no longer resting on its laurels and is pushing the industry forward.

Speaker: And so that is my recommendation because you got Joe Katz and you've got Keith Johnson.

Speaker: That's what you got at Jersey Jack.

Speaker: And there's probably some other coders down there helping flesh out the code.

Speaker: That's what you, what you have.

Speaker: And I feel like Joe Katz is doing a really good job.

Speaker: I just, Keith, it's Johnson.

Speaker: It's, it's, it's time.

Speaker: Time to stop pressing on your laurels.

Speaker: It's time to streamline.

Speaker: It's time to streamline.

Speaker: And, and that's, I don't think anybody feels like they need 21 options.

Speaker: They, they need like,

Speaker: seven or eight great modes with, uh, with stretch modes.

Speaker: So start with eight core modes.

Speaker: And then when you complete those to a certain level, go for the mini wizard.

Speaker: So four other ones on top of that.

Speaker: And then you go down to two and then you go down to the, to the, the final wizard mode.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: Do you, do you think that Jersey Jack is going to consider, we haven't heard any rumors about this,

Speaker: but consider dividing the license and making a Harry Potter book one through three or one through four, and then doing a five through seven.

Speaker: I think it would be smart.

Speaker: I think it all depends on that license and tells on what they're allowed to do.

Speaker: I, I,

Speaker: It would be smart.

Speaker: It's hard.

Speaker: The books on my shelf are that big.

Speaker: And if you're holding it up, it's about a foot and a half, like how long those books take up on the shelf.

Speaker: If you're listening and not watching, Scott just held up his hands from edge of screen to edge of screen.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: So that's a lot.

Speaker: That's a lot of information to put in there.

Speaker: I mean, think about it.

Speaker: Star Wars.

Speaker: Imagine.

Speaker: putting episode one through nine in there yeah it's it's hard so yeah even if doing one through three four or five six and seven or whatever dividing it up i think that would be super smart for them and if they had two or three harry potter games that would be a brilliant move for them and a home run yeah i agree

Speaker: Because I guarantee if someone's buying one and it's a hit, they're going to buy two or three.

Speaker: They will.

Speaker: Well, and I think that's as much as we can talk about with Harry Potter.

Speaker: It really is.

Speaker: We haven't heard a ton of stuff with it.

Speaker: My understanding is, you know, NAP Arcade did allude to it might be next month that they're showing this.

Speaker: It would be smart.

Speaker: It makes sense.

Speaker: It makes sense.

Speaker: A lot of reveals are in February slash March because of TPF and they're in, you know, September, October because of Expo.

Speaker: That's just, that's how the cookie crumbles.

Speaker: So if...

Speaker: And I'm hoping that we're, I'm hoping that we are going to be involved in some level to be able to see it and talk about it early on, because that would help both us and Jersey Jack.

Speaker: So I've got on our notes, Stern media day.

Speaker: But honestly, you, you and I kind of talked about this before the podcast and really,

Speaker: go check out our brothers from another mother, triple drain, triple drain.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: They had retro Ralph on, which all four of them went to the stern media day.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: By the way, I kind of hate retro Ralph and I'll tell you why he's good looking, he's smooth and he has really good content.

Speaker: And I, it just shows everything that I am not in podcasting.

Speaker: And so go check him out.

Speaker: He's really good.

Speaker: He's really good.

Speaker: And honestly, I,

Speaker: He's slumming in with us in pinball.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: He was making insane numbers on arcade and he comes to pinball and it like, yeah, he's rebuilding.

Speaker: He's rebuilding.

Speaker: Yep.

Speaker: And honestly, dude's awesome.

Speaker: We got to meet him at media day back in May.

Speaker: Really nice dude.

Speaker: He lives in Arizona.

Speaker: We might have to, it's warm down there right now.

Speaker: We might have to go take a trip.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: So yeah.

Speaker: So they did like a two hour episode.

Speaker: It was great.

Speaker: Really go check out triple drain.

Speaker: If you haven't, they're on the pinball network.

Speaker: I want to move on.

Speaker: So there's, there's two things I've heard over this last couple of weeks that I feel like people don't understand.

Speaker: And since Scott and I have kind of a behind the scenes, better working knowledge, but goes on in the industry.

Speaker: I feel like we could talk to both of these.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: The first one is we're seeing a new trend with licensing.

Speaker: I'm not going to point at specific licensing because that, um,

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Sure.

Speaker: But we're finding out more and more that pinball is only just a resurgence with the home and with, and location and stuff like that.

Speaker: But a lot more people outside of pinball are coming to pinball companies saying, we want you to take our product and make a pinball machine.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: Now this, it is common knowledge.

Speaker: At least they talked about it, that Metallica approached them.

Speaker: Yes.

Speaker: Yep.

Speaker: And said, and so this is not behind the scenes.

Speaker: They have talked about it.

Speaker: Metallica said, Hey, what you guys do with rush.

Speaker: Can you do that with ours?

Speaker: Cause that was great.

Speaker: So my question is, cause I know that not only that, but like Supreme did this, but there's been this weird divide where it felt like the licenses that Gary Stern was out going to get was the cornerstones.

Speaker: And then people were approaching, you know, starting to make a pinball machine.

Speaker: They were making, I think they called it white label or was that fixed?

Speaker: I think that was fixed, but I'm okay.

Speaker: Basically.

Speaker: So you look at Stern and they had the star Wars, that game, they had the spider man home edition.

Speaker: They had Supreme.

Speaker: And so they were all, whoa, Nelly was being turned into paps.

Speaker: Crankrush.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And so they were all kind of re skins of a very basic layout, but we're talking like custom games that are being made for people who have approached them.

Speaker: So people are approaching, it's not just Stern.

Speaker: It is all the, they're kind of getting into a bidding war over like what pinball company do I want to go with?

Speaker: And pinball companies are, you know, they're going to say, well, can you produce my games faster?

Speaker: Blah, blah, blah, you know?

Speaker: And so my question is, you know, the old days, Gary told us about how like he took like a third of a play field in a briefcase up to a high rise in New York.

Speaker: And I was like,

Speaker: I want to make your theme into a pinball machine.

Speaker: And he said, the guy that owned the license, like who's this guy and what's this big piece of wood with stuff.

Speaker: Weird thing that you're on there.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: We're going from that where you had to go out and obtain a license to where people are like, I want you to make essentially my love letter of a franchise and a pinball machine.

Speaker: So I would assume if someone's approaching Stern, are they paying less money to do that?

Speaker: Or if they're approaching American or if they're approaching JJP.

Speaker: So with Metallica, maybe does Metallica say, Hey, we're not going to charge you that we would for our, our normal product that we've franchise out or license out because we want this product from you guys.

Speaker: I know Metallica is a different story because they made that in the past, right?

Speaker: Like it's not much of a leap, but it's like it,

Speaker: Let's compare that to Harry Potter, right?

Speaker: We know that Harry Potter was paid for in the millions.

Speaker: It was a coveted license, yes.

Speaker: I think Jack Guarneri had kind of confirmed... Well, he didn't confirm that they have Harry Potter, but I think he at one point said this is one of the most expensive licenses they've ever paid for.

Speaker: This is not a million.

Speaker: This is millions.

Speaker: Yeah, like 4 million, I think, was the number that was thrown out there.

Speaker: It was 4 to 5, yeah.

Speaker: Something like that.

Speaker: Okay, so that obviously...

Speaker: And J.K.

Speaker: Rowling had to be convinced that pinball wasn't a gambling device, that these weren't going to – my understanding there are stipulations around the license on this one.

Speaker: So we'll wait and see.

Speaker: The rumor was, is there going to be a coin box?

Speaker: That's the big rumor, right?

Speaker: The coin door, yep.

Speaker: The coin door, yeah.

Speaker: So I guess my question is, is it more advantageous?

Speaker: Let's say Dungeons & Dragons, Stern's newest release.

Speaker: Let's say that Dungeons & Dragons approached Stern and said, hey, we want you to make a Dungeons & Dragons game versus Harry Potter, where we know it's going to be guaranteed sales, but we know for a fact they went out and got that license, right?

Speaker: They chased J.K.

Speaker: Rowling for that license.

Speaker: Which one do you think is more worth it?

Speaker: Where you've got D&D has proven with all the voice actors and everyone willing to throw the ring in the hat and all that jazz versus Harry Potter where it's been pulling teeth to get stuff approved and you're paying more, but it's a more recognizable license.

Speaker: What do you think is the better option here?

Speaker: I'm going to give a qualified.

Speaker: It depends.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: Because there is some level of

Speaker: can you make the product that will reflect best on pinball and the license holder?

Speaker: Because those can be either aligned or they can be competing.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: And we've heard behind the scenes, especially one license where they basically just said, I don't think that what you're asking us to do is going to be beneficial.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: And so therefore, I think we're not going to, we have already started this process, but I think we're going to part ways.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: Now, the, we know the best products that are produced in pinball are when the pinball company has more freedom to make something right.

Speaker: And you could argue Metallica.

Speaker: Metallica said, make a good pinball machine.

Speaker: And the first iteration of it was amazing.

Speaker: And the second one's even better.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Iron Maiden.

Speaker: We know that the, the band was very supportive of their, their process going on.

Speaker: Rush, same thing.

Speaker: The band was very supportive on what's going on.

Speaker: You can see when, um, bond is, was a notoriously difficult license to work with.

Speaker: Yep.

Speaker: So I would argue that the bond product is,

Speaker: was inhibited.

Speaker: And I know people who have bought L E's and sold them because they're like, it's just not what I'm looking for.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: So however, my first, uh, the first time I met Steve Ritchie was at a Rocky mountain pinball show and his, his shtick was, he got up and said, hi, I'm Steve Ritchie and I sell pinball machines.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: So if you can sell a certain amount of machines and still make a lot of money, then that's, that's the ideal situation.

Speaker: But if you also, if, if the license is inhibiting your ability to sell a lot of machines, then I would argue you should look for it in a license.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: So, um,

Speaker: Now, even if a license is very cooperative, it still may not be a huge seller.

Speaker: So I'm sorry if Wu-Tang came to me and said, hey, make my machine.

Speaker: I know a lot of people have said they want a Wu-Tang machine, but I'm not sure there's enough market share to make a Wu-Tang machine.

Speaker: So even if they gave you that license for free, are they going to sell 4,000 games on that?

Speaker: I would say no.

Speaker: So...

Speaker: Finding that balance of, you know, that ideal nexus.

Speaker: But is there a situation where you can have someone who is particular, but you can work within those limitations and still put out a good product, then great.

Speaker: But there are challenges.

Speaker: I, I, Beatles, I don't know if Beatles sold as well.

Speaker: As they wanted it to, to make up for it.

Speaker: Cause at the time that was the most expensive license.

Speaker: It was like a million bucks, I believe.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: So the most they could make on that was 1964.

Speaker: Wasn't that?

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Yep.

Speaker: And I don't think they, I don't think they made them all.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: They still made some like this last month.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: And so are they,

Speaker: Was that worth it?

Speaker: And I was like, maybe not.

Speaker: Like, I think they thought Beatles was going to be a bigger seller and they didn't, you know, there's 10 songs on.

Speaker: How many songs are Beatles do Beatles have?

Speaker: Oh, well, the white album itself is a double album.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: So, so I'm just pointing.

Speaker: And actually a lot of people don't realize the great singles didn't even make it on albums.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Like, so we're talking so many songs, but you're also limited by that.

Speaker: Led Zeppelin, I would argue did not meet expectations because they didn't, you know, there wasn't a lot of options there even.

Speaker: And I know, I know the reasons, I know the reasons, but stairway to heaven didn't make it in the, in there.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And would you buy a, would you buy a Harry Potter game that doesn't have Voldemort in it?

Speaker: Just curious.

Speaker: I want a star Wars game that doesn't have Darth Vader.

Speaker: I mean, that's like the thing you're known for.

Speaker: And if you don't put the thing in there, then that may be a walk away moment.

Speaker: Now, like a back to the future without the DeLorean.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Kind of weird.

Speaker: Or, or without Marty McFly, you know, things like that.

Speaker: So there are things that are deal breakers.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: I don't necessarily think, sorry, this is a long answer and I I'll let, I'll let you take it.

Speaker: But,

Speaker: There are constraints that make it difficult to work with.

Speaker: I don't think it necessarily matters whether or not you approach the license or the license approaches you.

Speaker: is if you can get enough assets to be able to put forth the license in the most favorable light, that's what's most important.

Speaker: Okay, Josh, your turn.

Speaker: I talked way too long.

Speaker: I guess, sorry, D&D is a bad example because I do not know if they paid for that license.

Speaker: My assumption is with D&D being D&D, I don't think that Stern went out and got the license.

Speaker: That's just my assumption.

Speaker: And so, and plus it's, I would think they did actually.

Speaker: Really?

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: I argue they probably did reach out, but I guess, and granted, like I said, Metallica, it's hard because it's like, they did approach Stern and say, Hey, we want another Metallica.

Speaker: And, and Metallica is already a proven seller, right?

Speaker: Like, but I think if, if you've got, I, I think if the licensor comes to you and you're able to do it right, that is more beneficial to you.

Speaker: than if you go out and spend the $4 million on Harry Potter.

Speaker: I just, that's a lot of, that's a lot of dinero over however many games you're making that you have to almost guarantee you sell.

Speaker: And I'll give you the example.

Speaker: The example is Jeff Bezos at the time, richest man in the world.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Huge Lord of the Rings fan.

Speaker: And he wanted to make the rings of power.

Speaker: So he, he,

Speaker: bought the license and paid for this because he wanted to see it.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: That's a big difference between Peter Jackson coming to James Cameron and saying, Hey, I want you to make a series for me.

Speaker: You know, and James Cameron is going to say, how much am I going to make?

Speaker: Sure.

Speaker: But Jeff Bezos is like, I got more money anyway, so I don't care.

Speaker: I just want to see it.

Speaker: I just do it.

Speaker: So like I said, I think overall it does come down to that passion, right?

Speaker: Like you can obviously tell there's passion in Metallica and it oozes through the game.

Speaker: I think there's less of a risk on if a licensor is approaching you because I think they're more willing to work with you.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: I think that's also another reason I was looking at D and D because there is so much from out there.

Speaker: You can't tell me that Stern paid all these actors.

Speaker: I, I, I, that's a good question.

Speaker: That that's a total good point.

Speaker: Like it may have been, it may have been people like, I just want to be on the product.

Speaker: I, how many, how many people do you know, ask Hollywood to be involved in a project because their fans as opposed their personal fans, as opposed to, I would just want a paycheck.

Speaker: Well, a good example, let's use this one.

Speaker: I know this one gets brought up a million times.

Speaker: People are probably going to grumble.

Speaker: Well, let's talk Eric Manier on Guns N' Roses.

Speaker: It's that whole Beatles thing, you know?

Speaker: And they were having a hard time with Live or Let Die.

Speaker: And he gets on the phone, you know, Slash calls him up and he says, we're having issues with Live or Let Die.

Speaker: And 15 minutes later, Paul McCartney's on the phone and all the red tape got cut through.

Speaker: I mean, who is it?

Speaker: Wizards of the Coast.

Speaker: I can't remember who owns D&D.

Speaker: Probably called up the people and was like,

Speaker: Hey, Kevin Smith, we're making a D&D pinball machine.

Speaker: You want to be involved?

Speaker: And he's like, you know it.

Speaker: When and where?

Speaker: You know what I'm saying?

Speaker: You look at Ben Stiller made Dodgeball because he believed in Dodgeball and he wanted to see that movie made.

Speaker: And he took a big pay cut.

Speaker: It was under a million dollars to do that movie for him.

Speaker: That's a bold move, Cotton.

Speaker: Let's see if it works out for him.

Speaker: And it's still a cult classic to this day.

Speaker: It did well.

Speaker: It's a, it's a funny show, but it's stuff like that.

Speaker: Like when, when it's a passion project, people are willing to take a cut because they want to see the project come to fruition.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: So I, that's why I'm saying, I think it's more advantageous if someone's approaching you because you're going to get more doors open.

Speaker: I think you're going to have them as a reliable source versus if you go to someone and you say, Hey, we want to make your product in a pinball machine.

Speaker: They might not be as forthcoming.

Speaker: I bet you, it's been proven with D&D.

Speaker: They shared their resources.

Speaker: Wizards of the Coast, I think Hasbro is the one that actually owns it.

Speaker: Now I'm saying all this.

Speaker: Hasbro was like, we know these people.

Speaker: We know that people.

Speaker: Let us call our people and we'll send them your way.

Speaker: You know what I'm saying?

Speaker: I agree, by the way.

Speaker: Everything you said, I totally agree with.

Speaker: And I think we are saying the same thing, but in different ways.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Because if I'm going to Stern to say, Hey, I want to make a loser kid pinball machine.

Speaker: I'm not going to have many constraints.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Do what you want.

Speaker: Do what you want, you know?

Speaker: Yep.

Speaker: But if, you know, if they come to us, we're like, you know, well, okay, well maybe we can get something out of it.

Speaker: So the diehards have probably made it this far.

Speaker: I've got one more note on our episode.

Speaker: My last note is I put, so I'm hearing some terms thrown around and there's some people that don't understand these.

Speaker: And like I said, I don't know why, but Scott and I feel qualified to talk about this.

Speaker: So Zach Many was talking on the Pinball Show.

Speaker: If you've not listened to the most recent episode, go turn it on, right?

Speaker: Well, after you finish our episode, great episode.

Speaker: But Zach was talking about game selling out and game selling through.

Speaker: And people hear these words, and I don't think they understand exactly what it means to sell out versus sell through versus sell in.

Speaker: So Scott, when a manufacturer makes a game, why don't you kind of tell them how the tree works with how the game sells?

Speaker: So there's basically a business.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: There's always third party involved in most things, right?

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: There's most of the time it's a manufacturer that is a business that sells to a business that in turn sells to a customer.

Speaker: Yep.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: And so it depends on how far down that chain you go.

Speaker: And these are very simplistic terms, by the way.

Speaker: So if it's sold out, that typically means it is sold from the manufacturer all the way to the end part.

Speaker: So they are in customers' hands, or at least customers have ordered them.

Speaker: So a great example would be Metallica LE.

Speaker: Metallica LE.

Speaker: Sold out.

Speaker: All those distributors have sold their LEs.

Speaker: That is a sellout.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: And if a middle person has not sold it, it's because they have chosen not to sell it.

Speaker: I'm sure there's one or two people who are holding a Metallica LE inbox.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: But that is, that's not because they aren't able to sell it.

Speaker: It's because they choose not to sell it.

Speaker: You know, they're speculating.

Speaker: So now sell, uh, like, so that's, uh, that's sell, sell out, sell out.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: So sell through at least my understanding.

Speaker: is the manufacturer has made what they say they're going to make on it.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And they have sold them at least to the first step.

Speaker: So like with X-Men LE, what did they sell?

Speaker: Like 88, was it 888 or something like that?

Speaker: Yeah, it was.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Oh no.

Speaker: It was like, was it 860 or something like that?

Speaker: Something like that.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: And with, uh,

Speaker: and with dungeons dragons they did 7 40. yeah so with uh so for them to sell that i now i don't did they sell that through

Speaker: I want to say dungeons and dragons sold through.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: But I guarantee.

Speaker: You have to own list of the pinball.

Speaker: I wish I would have paid a little closer to attention.

Speaker: It's hard because these are terms we're not super familiar with, but I, okay.

Speaker: Some things that I guarantee did not sell out at all.

Speaker: They didn't even sell through.

Speaker: I guarantee they didn't make all of Venom Ellie's.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: I didn't.

Speaker: I guarantee they didn't even make them.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: Um, stranger things, Ellie's I guarantee they didn't make them.

Speaker: Um, a lot of the other ones.

Speaker: Wick.

Speaker: I don't think they, they probably didn't sell through on those, those ones either.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Maybe or maybe not.

Speaker: I, okay.

Speaker: I, I know they didn't sell out.

Speaker: Um, I doubt they sold through, but even if they did, I guarantee I, I, you could call up a distributor and find an Ellie very quickly.

Speaker: Yep.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: Um, dungeons and dragons.

Speaker: There is a likelihood, a high likelihood that this is sold through at a minimum, but I, I would not be surprised within, you know, within two weeks or a month that is completely sold out.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And it's just funny.

Speaker: Cause Hey, why is that important?

Speaker: Josh though?

Speaker: Why do we bring this up?

Speaker: Just because we've heard a whole lot of manufacturers, a lot of people saying,

Speaker: We sold out.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: And it's like, no, you haven't sold out.

Speaker: You may have sold through to your distributors.

Speaker: Right.

Speaker: but you thought sold out to your door.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: So like, I, I don't know if it was like with the fun house remake with the limited edition where Penn ready was coming out and was like, we've sold out.

Speaker: And it's like, no, no, no.

Speaker: They may have sold still available.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: But the problem is, is when you, when you, a manufacturer comes out and says we've sold out, which I mean, I guess if they sold through, they've technically sold out from the manufacturer.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: But that's not the right term though.

Speaker: That's not the right term.

Speaker: you shoot your distributors in the foot because then people are like, oh, well, they're all sold out.

Speaker: This is not available.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: So either a, they're either going to call in a panic and say, do you have any more?

Speaker: And when everyone's like, yeah, we got like five of them set in their shop.

Speaker: I think I'm like, or are they creating artificial panic?

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Like it's just funny because like, I think some of the manufacturers don't even know exactly.

Speaker: I think they do, but I, I would argue they're probably,

Speaker: There is something about the FOMO.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: And so maybe I would say they're being a little fast and loose with what selling out versus selling through means.

Speaker: Correct.

Speaker: So just something I wanted to bring up.

Speaker: I know that the words get thrown around a lot, and I don't hear much people talking about it because it's just, I don't know if people don't know.

Speaker: We just play the little cue from NBC.

Speaker: The more you know.

Speaker: The more you know.

Speaker: The more you know.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Again, if you really do want to know, though, if you think something's sold out, call Zach because he'll tell you if he has one on.

Speaker: And most of the time he has one available or if something comes up, then he'll put you on a list.

Speaker: That's just an example of a distributor who will tell you exactly what's going on.

Speaker: So I find it interesting if you go on Pinside because I was looking up the numbers of

Speaker: like we were talking X-Men LE, it says in production, it actually doesn't say the final number.

Speaker: But with Dungeons & Dragons, it actually does say the 740.

Speaker: But even with John Wick LE, it says in production.

Speaker: I thought they were all done with the production on those.

Speaker: I could be wrong.

Speaker: So I think, I wonder, half wonder if that means they haven't produced them all.

Speaker: And so Pinside's just like, yeah, we're holding off on this until we get confirmation.

Speaker: Yeah, I guarantee if they

Speaker: If they sold, if the sell through sells out and there's enough for 20 LEs, they'd make them.

Speaker: Like with Jaws LEs, it says a thousand was produced.

Speaker: So they sold all those.

Speaker: That's, that is a sell out.

Speaker: No, Stern doesn't, doesn't, doesn't officially announce things.

Speaker: And so this is, uh, I guess an educated speculation.

Speaker: Well, and here's the thing.

Speaker: So if someone actually receives 1,000 out of 1,000, that's confirmation that they made all 1,000.

Speaker: It's not linear.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: They don't make them linear.

Speaker: Like my Metallica, I think it's like 460 something.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Yours was pretty high.

Speaker: When you did your video, you're like, oh, this is like one of the last run ones.

Speaker: This is 486.

Speaker: And actually, I wouldn't be surprised if mine was one of the last ones.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Because I got it a little later than other people.

Speaker: Yep.

Speaker: All right.

Speaker: We've ran almost an hour and 20 minutes.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Yeah.

Speaker: Uh, people are either turned off or I don't know.

Speaker: They're listening to us on double speed.

Speaker: It's fine.

Speaker: You know, you know, you know, um, we talked about the twippies earlier because of like the community recognition and stuff like that.

Speaker: After we did, uh,

Speaker: twippies last year i know i've been terrible at this but i have been trying to do a spot where we do content creator of the episode because i feel like there are a lot of great content creators out there that don't get recognition and i've probably double said some and i do apologize um i do appreciate those i've reached out and asked us to look at their content

Speaker: I've been more than happy to talk about your content on our show and give you a content creator.

Speaker: I want you to know, I'm not saying we're the end-all be-all of content creators.

Speaker: There's definitely people that have more numbers than us, but we have a platform.

Speaker: There's more stars in the sky.

Speaker: It's fine.

Speaker: Correct.

Speaker: I feel like we have a platform that we can share with others.

Speaker: I don't mind pushing content.

Speaker: One content creator...

Speaker: Haven't heard in a while.

Speaker: Does great content.

Speaker: Abe flips.

Speaker: If you have not seen his tutorial videos on YouTube, they're insanely cool and they will help you with your flipper skills and whatnot.

Speaker: So go check out a flips on YouTube.

Speaker: That's going to, that's the content creator I am saying for this episode.

Speaker: I'm going to jump on too.

Speaker: So we mentioned him before.

Speaker: Check out Retro Ralph.

Speaker: He's great.

Speaker: Obviously, Retro Ralph does not need our numbers.

Speaker: He doesn't need ours.

Speaker: He's good.

Speaker: And also, I'm excited because I just got an invoice to finalize my Sithara guitar.

Speaker: Yes.

Speaker: So we, and we are going to have him on too, but I'm excited because he, he even has some suggestions on there.

Speaker: It's like, Hey, do you want the loser kid logo on the neck?

Speaker: And I'm like, yes, I do.

Speaker: Yes.

Speaker: So, so we're going to have to talk about that after we shut this off.

Speaker: Cause I, I want to know what you put into yours and I'll tell you what I put into mine.

Speaker: Okay.

Speaker: No, no.

Speaker: Sounds good.

Speaker: But absolutely check him out.

Speaker: Definitely.

Speaker: It's a C I T H A R A guitars.

Speaker: And the,

Speaker: Great stuff.

Speaker: But we, again, thank you so much for the year.

Speaker: What an amazing year.

Speaker: We're looking forward to this year.

Speaker: And definitely go, if you've played Dungeons and Dragons, tell me about it and tell us, tell us like, if you were surprised, if it was what you expected or if it didn't hit the mark, I have a feeling that it'll be exceeded expectations.

Speaker: Yep.

Speaker: Once again, thanks to the 60,000 plus people that viewed or listened to our content.

Speaker: Also, Silverball Swag.

Speaker: If you've been watching on YouTube and you saw this baseball jersey, it's in black.

Speaker: It's in white.

Speaker: If you want one, hit up SilverballSwag.com slash LoserKid and send Neil Shelton a little thank you.

Speaker: Dude, he bought that like a year ago.

Speaker: He's crushing it.

Speaker: And he's a passionate man when it comes to pinball.

Speaker: He's got some great things in the pipeline.

Speaker: I'm excited for him to reveal to all of y'all.

Speaker: I'm excited.

Speaker: Like Neil is just a great dude.

Speaker: I've always been a supporter of everything he does.

Speaker: He just, he takes it to the next level.

Speaker: So there is that.

Speaker: If you want to get a hold of us, we are Losing a Pinball podcast at gmail.com.

Speaker: We're on all the socials, Facebook, Instagram, X, Threads.

Speaker: Someone the other day is like, I heard you said you were on Threads, so I came to check you out.

Speaker: And so they're seriously one-on-one commenting.

Speaker: I just barely installed Threads.

Speaker: Okay, so I'm getting there.

Speaker: I'm getting there.

Speaker: Well, we're on TikTok.

Speaker: If you want to see our video that blew up, they almost got 14,000 views.

Speaker: Go check it out.

Speaker: Anyhow, Scott, give us our final words.

Speaker: Thanks again, guys.

Speaker: And we'll see you.

Speaker: I'm heading to Guatemala on Saturday.

Speaker: I'll be gone for a week.

Speaker: And so I'll see you when we get back.