Transcript
Speaker: Thanks for tuning in to Loser Kid Pinball Podcast.
Speaker: We are on episode 160.
Speaker: We are quite up there, aren't we, Scott?
Speaker: We're getting old.
Speaker: You know, it's funny because I kept like screwing up the intro.
Speaker: I kept saying, what was it?
Speaker: Episode 159?
Speaker: Like, even though we're like on one.
Speaker: Well, 159 was pretty important because we did the Lyman episode, right?
Speaker: We did do the Lyman episode.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And that was amazing.
Speaker: But before we get into that, you know, one of Lyman's recent games, Metallica, that's right behind you.
Speaker: I got to come to your house and play it.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: Where did you get that Metallica from?
Speaker: Well, I'll tell you what I got on top of the Metallica.
Speaker: If you look top, I saw the guy finally got the Metallica topper and I completed the package.
Speaker: I am going to get the shooter out.
Speaker: I know it's silly, but I'm totally going to get it.
Speaker: And as I can call it flipping out pinball, they'll definitely take care of you.
Speaker: Looking for that new game or used game, they'll definitely hook you up.
Speaker: And don't worry, I know they're on vacation this week.
Speaker: They sent out the notices saying, hey, we'll be out of the office for the week.
Speaker: Zach is crazy good, though.
Speaker: He'll still check back.
Speaker: He'll still get you taken care of.
Speaker: While we were at the Silverstein stuff, I was getting messages.
Speaker: A friend of ours, Matt Shablom, had referred a friend of his to us to help him buy through Flippin' Out.
Speaker: And I did all that while we were playing pinball.
Speaker: Zach had it done.
Speaker: He's like, I've got a Mandalorian in stock.
Speaker: Seriously, the whole deal was done within like 30 minutes and out the door.
Speaker: I mean, holy crap.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And actually, we were talking to Dan, who runs Keto's, our local bar.
Speaker: And he's the one who actually, we asked him about, oh, I saw Pulp Fiction was here.
Speaker: And he said, yeah, I actually saw Zach, posted one.
Speaker: He got it out here.
Speaker: So again, new, used.
Speaker: He can definitely help you out.
Speaker: And he has good prices.
Speaker: Definitely.
Speaker: It's been a minute since we recorded.
Speaker: We did the Lyman episode.
Speaker: That was fantastic.
Speaker: Then I went to California, so I was gone.
Speaker: You were gone.
Speaker: I can't tell you the outreach and outpouring from the Lyman episode.
Speaker: It was amazing.
Speaker: People love Penny.
Speaker: People love the Sharps.
Speaker: Amazing.
Speaker: Let me read one email to you just to give you an idea.
Speaker: This is from Christopher L.,
Speaker: He said, hey, Josh and Scott, I wanted to reach out to you guys and say thank you for a great episode to Educated Alignment.
Speaker: It was great.
Speaker: It was a great listen.
Speaker: It was nice to feel a little bit closer to the legend.
Speaker: Thanks to everyone's memories.
Speaker: He got back into pinball back in 2014, and he found the Walking Dead pinball machine, and he fell in love with it, right?
Speaker: That's what sucked him into pinball.
Speaker: You know, fast forward.
Speaker: he got bit by the silver silver ball bug.
Speaker: He now has eight in his basement.
Speaker: He's like John Borg did a good job with the layout, but really what makes this game is Lyman's code.
Speaker: I truly made me fall in love with pinball.
Speaker: I also own a monster bash remake L E,
Speaker: which one of Lyman's earliest games and still is my grail.
Speaker: And that I cherish owning his voices forever immortalized through Lyman's lament, which we didn't bring up on the last episode, but I love Lyman's lament.
Speaker: That's such a memorable moment in that pinball machine, you know?
Speaker: And that extra special, if you get the extra special, Lyman talks to you on that one.
Speaker: Unfortunately, I never got the chance to meet Lyman.
Speaker: I would love to talk to him just five, 10 minutes about pinball.
Speaker: truthfully, the reason I wanted to meet him would have been to thank him.
Speaker: And there was a lot of that too.
Speaker: There was a lot of people saying, I just wish I could have thanked Lyman.
Speaker: And through this episode, we felt like we got to be a little closer to Lyman and thank him.
Speaker: Wrapping this up, Christopher L says, thank you for your hard work, your dedication to our hobby, both on and off the clock, Lyman.
Speaker: for going back to games on your own time because you knew there was something missing something that could have been better and be more fun than it already was just to say lyman thank you for being such an influence to myself to many others to learn pinball to appreciate its depth and the love of the game i don't know if you can pass this along to penny which we are right now and as i would love for her to know that story i'm sure is one of thousands here
Speaker: But that was my story.
Speaker: And without Lyman's genius, who knows if I would have ever been entrenched in the love with the hobby that I am today.
Speaker: And thank you, Loser Kids, for all your hard work and dedication in the hobby as well.
Speaker: Love listening to you guys.
Speaker: Keep up the good work.
Speaker: Chris L. with Wombat Pinball.
Speaker: So, Chris, thanks for sending that in to us, man.
Speaker: I sent that over to Scott while he's in California.
Speaker: He's like, dude, that's amazing.
Speaker: Yeah, it's fun.
Speaker: We definitely wanted to keep the episode upbeat.
Speaker: Um, we all know the tragic end.
Speaker: Um, and so things to think about is our lives are interconnected with other people, regardless of how we feel about it.
Speaker: And if, uh, and I know we've plugged it before, but if anybody is feeling down or feeling needs, definitely go seek help.
Speaker: Please go and reach out because
Speaker: There's a vacuum in the universe if you do something that removes you from it.
Speaker: And it affects so many people.
Speaker: There's so much collateral damage on it.
Speaker: And if there's anything that we can do to help people to reach out and to get mental health treatment –
Speaker: Happy to do that.
Speaker: But we didn't want to dwell on that because we really wanted to focus on the positive aspects of Lyman.
Speaker: So I just wanted to plug that now again.
Speaker: Just again, think about it.
Speaker: You mean more than you think.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: Totally agree.
Speaker: And so I'm just glad we were able to do the episode.
Speaker: I just, I had something tugging at me saying, you know, when, when, sadly, when he passed, we talked about doing something and I know it didn't feel like it didn't feel like the times I know slam tilts really close was really close.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I thought it'd be cool to do, you know, they do their episodes, the cluster bucks where you get everyone together.
Speaker: I thought it'd be memorable to do something like that, but I felt like that's their thing, right?
Speaker: Like I didn't want to step on their toes and be like, Hey,
Speaker: And so, you know, we talked about it back and forth and I don't know, it's been three years.
Speaker: I felt like it was finally time and it just, it was funny.
Speaker: Cause like we talked about doing this episode and I pitched the idea to, to Zach sharp.
Speaker: And the next thing I know, like within 30 minutes, all the sharps were on board and Penny was on board as well.
Speaker: And it was, it wasn't, it was crazy.
Speaker: It was meant to be right.
Speaker: Like it was, it all worked out perfectly.
Speaker: So it was fun to hear the behind the scenes.
Speaker: I mean, we,
Speaker: Unfortunately, we don't know the people behind the fandom.
Speaker: We really don't.
Speaker: And getting some of the behind the scenes, like the stories about Lyman showing up at the pennies with the flowers and things like that, that was nice just to connect the human to the legend.
Speaker: And it's just nice to hear all the behind the scenes and to really realize how...
Speaker: uh, just, I guess, getting back to it, that we don't, we don't realize all the little things that we do in life that people remember.
Speaker: Yeah, I agree.
Speaker: So we, we also went to Silverstein.
Speaker: So yeah, that was amazing.
Speaker: We'll pull that.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I, so I, I'm wearing my Silverstein shirt.
Speaker: If you're looking at on the YouTubes, Josh and I got the same shirt.
Speaker: I will point out that I bought, I selected mine first and Josh decided all of us there bought the same shirt.
Speaker: Yeah, we did.
Speaker: But, but I, I, I am on record as saying that that's the one I wanted.
Speaker: And then everyone else like, well, that's the one I wanted to.
Speaker: So yeah.
Speaker: Uh, the, I would say the best part about it is by the way, Shane is great guy.
Speaker: Awesome guy.
Speaker: They just finished their tour in Toronto and he was, Oh, was it Montreal?
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Montreal.
Speaker: Oh, I know.
Speaker: Oh, I know.
Speaker: I know it was back in Canada.
Speaker: So, uh, so, but they were snowed in.
Speaker: He was having a hard time getting back to Vegas, which was funny because I was driving through Vegas at that time.
Speaker: But it was fun because we went to a local bar in the afternoon.
Speaker: So not a lot of traction.
Speaker: And so we were playing pinball.
Speaker: And I just thought this is, in many ways, for him to be a lead singer of a well-known band.
Speaker: There was at least, what, 3,000 to 4,000 people at the show.
Speaker: And it was a big show.
Speaker: There was a good-sized show.
Speaker: Yeah, and they were the headliner.
Speaker: But it was fun because it was just four of us playing in this nearly empty bar.
Speaker: And he was able to, to, uh, I guess, interact on a, on a human level without having like anybody come up and bug him and everything.
Speaker: It was just a lot of fun.
Speaker: And then at the end, he's like, well, I should probably get back to the show.
Speaker: And we're like, oh, we could give you guys like, no, I'll just take one of these like scooters.
Speaker: No, those ones that you scan your phone on.
Speaker: And I thought that that actually probably is a nice grounding for him to be able to say, hey, I can get up on stage and people know me and people will wear my shirts and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker: But I still have...
Speaker: a personal, a personal life that is still private.
Speaker: Like, uh, you know, it's, it's intimate, I guess it's, it's not bugged by, I would say in many ways, fan, uh, fans, uh, you reach a level of fame at some point that fans can be, um, oppressive.
Speaker: And it was just nice to see him behind the scenes is that he was just chill, just had a good time.
Speaker: And, and he was, he was talking about his Metallica.
Speaker: He, he got his through the Metallica website, which I thought was hilarious.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And what made me chuckle is we were kind of razzing each other too.
Speaker: It's funny.
Speaker: Cause we're like picking different games of play and I can't remember who picked Deadpool, but Shane's like, I'm not,
Speaker: He's like, I'm not a fan of Deadpool.
Speaker: It's all right.
Speaker: I'll play it, but it's not my go-to.
Speaker: Then you're like GC, dude.
Speaker: Yeah, he's like a half a billion points.
Speaker: I'm like, oh, I'm Shane.
Speaker: I don't like Deadpool, but I'm going to blow this game up.
Speaker: Playing for like 30 minutes.
Speaker: All right, you're good.
Speaker: No, it was great.
Speaker: It was great.
Speaker: No.
Speaker: And if you haven't checked out him and, uh, Ian Jacoby of nudge magazine have started up a new podcast called nudge cast.
Speaker: If you haven't checked it out, they've done five episodes so far.
Speaker: Uh, it's been really, really good.
Speaker: Uh, it's cool because it's kind of showing a different side of the hobby with some of the people, uh, highlighting some of, uh, just behind the scenes characters that we don't see very much.
Speaker: Uh, they did have Chris K on their last episode.
Speaker: I don't know if you've ever heard of him.
Speaker: But one thing that stuck out to me was, is they were talking about back to the future pinball, you know, that's the rumor from, uh, from Dutch pinball.
Speaker: And they were saying that Stern originally had the license, but because of Chris was saying, because of, uh, marketing that Stern had done, they were told to drop the license because, uh, younger age kids weren't relating to the story.
Speaker: And I, I,
Speaker: I cannot talk to the marketing part of that, but I can tell you from inside, they dropped the license because there was too many license restrictions.
Speaker: It didn't actually have anything to do with that.
Speaker: And it was funny because when this originally broke last year, we kind of talked about this last year.
Speaker: It like went to Dutch or like they got the license or... So yeah, as soon as Stern dropped it...
Speaker: Dutch picked it up.
Speaker: And what Dutch has found out is the same licensing restrictions are there.
Speaker: Franchi had mentioned this publicly on a podcast on a flipping out with friends with Joel.
Speaker: If you have, if you're not subscribed to flipping out pinball, go check them out.
Speaker: They've got some great live streams, whatnot, but they, and you can listen to Joel on the triple drain pinball podcast.
Speaker: So,
Speaker: Christopher French actually announced on that podcast in the comments that Dutch had secured the license to the DeLorean for the game, but that was it.
Speaker: Because the rumor was you couldn't get Marty, you couldn't get Doc, and you couldn't get the DeLorean.
Speaker: That's when Stern owned it.
Speaker: So Dutch has got the DeLorean.
Speaker: Yay, they got DeLorean.
Speaker: Here's the question, though.
Speaker: We've talked about extensive licensing questions, right?
Speaker: On the shows before.
Speaker: Now,
Speaker: There are things that are vital to a license.
Speaker: And there are things that are vital.
Speaker: If you want to use the band analogy, there's usually one or two people who drive a band.
Speaker: And there are some parts that you can swap out.
Speaker: A keyboard player.
Speaker: I'm not downplaying any of that.
Speaker: But there's usually one driving force.
Speaker: Imagine if you had...
Speaker: a YouTube pinball machine, but you couldn't get Bono or the edge.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I just, why would you do it then?
Speaker: Why would you do it?
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And, and you could argue, um, we've talked about this before, you know, Led Zeppelin is known for one major sign.
Speaker: Obviously they are a legendary band.
Speaker: And so they are able to do a pinball machine without the one song.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But, um,
Speaker: it does, it is a head scratcher to say, you're doing Led Zeppelin and you can't get Stairway to Heaven.
Speaker: Or you, it wasn't in the, I don't know, whatever limitation there was.
Speaker: But it'd be like doing Rush without Tom Sawyer.
Speaker: Like, it's the one song that everybody knows they play.
Speaker: And, you know, it's the same thing.
Speaker: Like, hey, you can do a, okay, let's throw out, oh, what's the,
Speaker: Sorry, then Keanu Reeves.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: You can do the matrix.
Speaker: You just can't have Keanu.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Then why would you do it?
Speaker: Well, it's like, well, let's be honest.
Speaker: Stern has had some interesting license choices of these last two, three years.
Speaker: John wick without guns.
Speaker: How, how much did they throw a fit that there wasn't guns in the artwork versus it was in the game in the, but overall there wasn't guns in the artwork and how much of an outrage of that cause.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: But I I'll counter with that one.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I can, I can understand at least them saying, okay, it's not like we're doing John wick without guns.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: We are doing John wick without guns of the artwork.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And I, and so there are negotiations that you make with any license and the licensor really dictates what you can and can't use.
Speaker: And even, do you remember way back in the day,
Speaker: when Keith Elwin was talking about when he was talking about infinity quest.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And he's like, the only thing they gave us on the Hulk was the eye.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: We could use like one pose and his eye.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's like, what are we going to do with it?
Speaker: So if you ever notice the Hulk, like in the, in the DMD, like just falls out of the top of the screen and spins like there's like, it's just a still image, but they just dropped them and spun them and they like zips off the screen.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So now my point with bringing that up is there are going to be negotiations with everything.
Speaker: You're not going to get
Speaker: everything you want unless you happen to be working with metallica and metallica is like hey we're a big fan whatever you want or guns and roses slash you know say whatever you want you want live and let die i'll call paul mccartney we'll get it set up well can we talk about a funny one that people don't notice like okay go ahead go ahead okay a funny one that people don't notice next time you're playing a star wars yeah check this out you're ready for this so in star wars
Speaker: uh one and two so so a new hope and and empire strikes back you mean four and five sorry i apologize uh four and five so all the clips are there right like they have a lot of access but whenever you're playing return of the jedi yeah they don't have access to a lot of those clips because that was right when apparently that's when the licensing turned
Speaker: And the, and so the, the artists had more of a say in their likeness.
Speaker: Correct.
Speaker: So next time, why is this money?
Speaker: It's money, right?
Speaker: So next time you're playing star Wars, keep an eye on that.
Speaker: So it does become a fine line, right?
Speaker: Like this licensing thing becomes a very fine line of when do we pull out?
Speaker: When do we, we, we take our chips and leave and when do we push forward?
Speaker: And like Seth Davis said, we gamble and we bet the house essentially, you know?
Speaker: I mean, okay.
Speaker: But the DeLorean is a big line.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: The DeLorean is a big line.
Speaker: Marty McFly is a big line.
Speaker: It's a huge line.
Speaker: You can do it.
Speaker: You could argue.
Speaker: Could you do it without the, without the Marty and just the DeLorean?
Speaker: You can, but it feels like an incomplete game.
Speaker: Now with, now with Jurassic park, you can also argue that, well, they, they only have Nedry, which always I read as nerdy every time because it just, I don't, my, my mind just flips those around.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You have Nedry and that's pretty much it.
Speaker: And you have some voice call outs, but it's basically you're in the Jurassic park world.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And it, it works, but I don't think you can do that with a movie.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Well, okay.
Speaker: Jurassic park is a movie, but you see what I mean?
Speaker: Like something that is so iconic to the presentation.
Speaker: It becomes like, like we said, it's a fine line because at least with Jurassic park, you are the person going through the park.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Nadri is the one that's messing with you.
Speaker: I mean, and you had dinosaurs.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: This is the thing.
Speaker: If you had back to the future and you only have the DeLorean, you give it to Elwynn.
Speaker: And you do like a Jurassic park thing where it's from your perspective, going from, from the past to the future and all that stuff.
Speaker: And even then, I think you're just going to get a hard sell.
Speaker: I think it would be a really hard sell.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: You get the DeLorean and you get the back to the future logo.
Speaker: You have it.
Speaker: You'd have to get the music too.
Speaker: You'd have to, you'd have to, because, because on Jurassic park, that is one thing that does pull you in at least the music's there.
Speaker: True.
Speaker: That is very true.
Speaker: So,
Speaker: Once again, and the other part about licensing too, we actually had someone reach out because two episodes ago we talked about American pinball.
Speaker: Sold through versus sold out.
Speaker: And we actually had it wrong.
Speaker: So it's vice versa.
Speaker: Sold out is from...
Speaker: from the manufacturer to the distributor and sold through is where you go all the way through the channel yeah so you sold all the way from the manufacturer to the consumer yeah so so okay the second thing too is is we were told that uh because we talked about american pinball's next game yeah which we have not set a title but we said that they are contractually obligated to release this game and we were told actually
Speaker: They are to a point.
Speaker: So if they were to claim bankruptcy or if they were to close down American Pinball.
Speaker: Contracts can be broken.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: There's ways around it.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: But for the most part, like, yeah, like if America wanted to get out of it, they could.
Speaker: But we've seen the game and it's pretty much done.
Speaker: Like they're working on code, which seems to be the problem with everything.
Speaker: Right?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And so it's like you're just working on like, why would you scrap a project that
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: Speaking of which, by the way, did you know Dave Fix was on Pinball News?
Speaker: Oh, yeah.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Yes, I did know about that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: This is how crazy the interview was.
Speaker: Gary Stern was on the same episode that did an interview.
Speaker: No one talked about the Gary Stern episode.
Speaker: Their interview.
Speaker: They're all talking about the Dave Fix interview.
Speaker: Oh man.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I, I have, I have mixed feelings about Dave and Dave has been very nice to us.
Speaker: And I, I totally understand that it is a complicated arrangement.
Speaker: Some people have with Dave, whether or not they feel that he was forthright with how American pinball was or with the business plan or them being able to buy products or things like that.
Speaker: However,
Speaker: It's an interesting situation that Dave has been in for a while because it, it feels like American pinball at least has been a, I've talked about this before.
Speaker: Spooky.
Speaker: They have, they figure out who they are.
Speaker: You know, CGC, they figured out who they are.
Speaker: JJP figured out who they are.
Speaker: Stern.
Speaker: They know who they are.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And American pinball never really felt like they knew who they were.
Speaker: And didn't really find the audience, didn't find the theme choices that made you feel like, hey, this is American pinball.
Speaker: And I don't know what limitations Dave had to work with.
Speaker: So we definitely don't know behind the scenes.
Speaker: Um, I will say that Dave has been at least whether or not you agree with the answers, he gave us answers to a lot of questions and we didn't hold back.
Speaker: We asked the questions that people have been asking us and Dave, Dave answered every single question we, we gave him.
Speaker: So I will at least give Dave props for being open and transparent with the answers, whether or not you agree with the answers.
Speaker: That's that may be a different situation.
Speaker: But, you know, it's I I'm wondering where I'm hoping Dave has like a next phase in his pinball hobby thing.
Speaker: Dave is obviously passionate about pinball.
Speaker: Yeah, but pinball's in a place where it's trimming the fat right now.
Speaker: It is.
Speaker: Yeah, they're contracting it.
Speaker: If you can't prove that you can bring to the table, you're not.
Speaker: I'm not saying fix can't.
Speaker: I do have a couple things from this interview I want to bring up.
Speaker: Okay, go ahead.
Speaker: This is questionable.
Speaker: We are a family-friendly podcast.
Speaker: I've got to bring this up because no one else is talking about this.
Speaker: Skip 10, 10, 15 seconds.
Speaker: So there's a part in the episode.
Speaker: It's two hours and 16 minutes.
Speaker: If you want to go straight to it.
Speaker: fix says i know what he was trying to say but the way he says it is terrible he says he's in a three-way between mikesh and normal and i was like this sounds did he just say that and he caught himself saying it and he kind of stumbled for a second and then he just tried to keep going just moved on yeah yeah it's okay i believe that the i'm not sure if it's a politically correct term but it's like a mexican standoff where there's
Speaker: You know, you're kind of that, that Spider-Man thing where you're all pointing at each, you know, you're pointing at each other and it's, it's hard when you don't have one driving force in a company.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And, and this is what Apple actually ran into this.
Speaker: Apple ran into this where Steve jobs was forced to leave Apple and Apple, Apple,
Speaker: really stumbled without Steve jobs.
Speaker: No, Steve jobs is not a nice guy, by the way.
Speaker: He was never a nice guy.
Speaker: He, he, um, the, the deification of Steve kind of baffles me.
Speaker: However, he was determined and he had a single minded focus on what he wanted to bring to the market.
Speaker: And he literally changed the world with the iPhone.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: I, everybody has some sort of computer device, which if you looked at my childhood and you watch star Trek and you have them with, I don't even know what they're called.
Speaker: The, the, the little phaser things that they have all on all of them, that they were basically like smartphones.
Speaker: And so that that's interesting.
Speaker: It never felt like American pinball had the traction to have that single minded focus to get something done.
Speaker: So a couple other things that Fix brought up.
Speaker: He said that he has a non-compete clause.
Speaker: It's 90 days.
Speaker: Does that stay still in effect if you get let go?
Speaker: I guess it depends on the contract.
Speaker: Because if, if your contract is not, so there, there, there are contractual differences between a contract that is not renewed and a contract that is terminated.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So a lot of these, a lot of these, um, executive level things, they have contracts and actually even my company, my company, uh, that we are a collective anesthesia group.
Speaker: And we have a contract with the hospital that lasts three years.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And when it lapses, then you could either say,
Speaker: we will continue until our contract's done.
Speaker: Or you could say, no, the contract's terminated and you no longer have our services.
Speaker: So it depends on how the contract is worded.
Speaker: Now, 90-day non-compete seems pretty short, really.
Speaker: It does for the most part, but I just assume if you're getting terminated that your non-compete doesn't really exist.
Speaker: You're essentially terminating the contract.
Speaker: Right, yeah.
Speaker: So it could be, there could be like a tail that he is compensated for that if he's not being renewed.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So I'm sure there are contractual teeth if they, if there is no non-compete.
Speaker: Now non-competes in themselves though, can be kind of dubious as in you can't obviously take property that you developed when you were at a company and then
Speaker: take those ideas and those things that you developed under their, uh, under their umbrella, then immediately open another country, a company.
Speaker: Yeah, true.
Speaker: Um, that's pretty much, there was a big lawsuit with brats.
Speaker: You remember brats?
Speaker: Like, yeah, the brat dolls.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: The big eyed dolls.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Because the person who started that actually worked for Mattel and Barbie.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Oh.
Speaker: And there was definitely an, I think it was actually resolved, but I think money did exchange hands.
Speaker: So I wish things like that can happen.
Speaker: Now, if he started and,
Speaker: is developing something completely different.
Speaker: It'd be pretty hard to argue that because you can't prevent someone from getting a job.
Speaker: If I get terminated as an anesthesiologist, they can't say, Oh, by the way, we are terminating you.
Speaker: We are not paying you and you can't work for three months.
Speaker: I don't see how that would work.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So the other thing that, I don't know, there was a lot of things because he talked about like pretty much everyone that had worked on the next project had been fired.
Speaker: And so it was like a huge likened it to like, well, fire.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I would say light off baby.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Whatever.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Um, it pretty much like you've eliminated all the cooking staff in the kitchen, but you, you still have the ingredients.
Speaker: And I agree to this point.
Speaker: Like,
Speaker: You and I know that when a new game comes out from either Jersey Jack or it comes out from Stern, those designers, nine times out of ten, are on the line with those workers to tell them how to make these.
Speaker: Because here's the thing.
Speaker: We see the people that are passionate about the game, right?
Speaker: We see the designers.
Speaker: We see the coders.
Speaker: We see the artists.
Speaker: We see the people that are in love with these games.
Speaker: I've met the people on the line.
Speaker: They're there for a job.
Speaker: They're there for a paycheck.
Speaker: Nothing wrong with that.
Speaker: They're manufacturing.
Speaker: Correct.
Speaker: It's a manufacturing job.
Speaker: They're good at their job.
Speaker: And I'm sure you'll find various levels of commitment to like some people are really interested in pinball and other people are like, I could be flipping burgers or I could be on the assembly line at Ford.
Speaker: You know, it's crazy.
Speaker: It's just another job.
Speaker: And I totally get that.
Speaker: So for me, it concerns me.
Speaker: If you're your next project, you're releasing it.
Speaker: The designer's not there.
Speaker: The people that worked on it aren't there producing this game.
Speaker: Let's be honest.
Speaker: We did the fix interview and it shocked me how many people openly said, I tried.
Speaker: I have bought American product.
Speaker: I've got it in my home.
Speaker: It is broken.
Speaker: They have promised if I call, they will answer.
Speaker: I can't get a response to my email.
Speaker: I can't get a response to my phone.
Speaker: And it's like, so it's like, you know, American prove yourself.
Speaker: This, this is a black eye in my opinion, because it's like, if you came and do it, you had the whole kitchen staff there.
Speaker: No one that's in a manufacturing position that we just talked about is going to give a crap on the line.
Speaker: And then you start producing these games and they fall apart in people's homes.
Speaker: And then you've got two people that are over Amtron who care more about arcade stuff because that's what they know in circuit boards, which there's nothing wrong with that.
Speaker: And then you have a gentleman that just started Ron, which Ron, you said you'd answer my calls if I called, dude.
Speaker: I've called you several times and left voicemails.
Speaker: you told me you listen to podcasts.
Speaker: This is how you're going to hear me now.
Speaker: Like if you can't answer my calls, I'm not being mean or anything about it, but I had questions about the fix interview.
Speaker: Cause it's like, but if, if you don't want to answer them, we can, we can speculate and project here.
Speaker: Here's the thing.
Speaker: Ron's not answering phones.
Speaker: He's been there since February.
Speaker: He's a salesman.
Speaker: He's not a gentleman's worked in the pinball industry.
Speaker: He came from polycade, which is an arcade.
Speaker: My faith in this company, I'm excited.
Speaker: I am super excited about the next project.
Speaker: But really, honestly, looking at where they're standing right now, I don't have any faith.
Speaker: And that's about where everyone else is at this point too.
Speaker: You've got no one that has been in pinball working there.
Speaker: You've got a bunch of people manufacturing.
Speaker: I don't see it going over well.
Speaker: I don't want us to tell you.
Speaker: And I get like you, you laid people off because you weren't making the, the, the ends weren't meeting the justifies or the ends weren't meeting whatever.
Speaker: You know what I'm saying?
Speaker: You know what I'm saying?
Speaker: Scott, this is American pinball 4.0.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So this is the fourth version of,
Speaker: of a company that's called American pinball.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: How many companies have survived multiple reboots to turn out to be a successful company?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I can understand.
Speaker: Usually there's, there's some stumbling, but there's usually like a core group that continues to, to fail and to, to work and to work out the bugs.
Speaker: And then they eventually succeed.
Speaker: My optimism for American pinball is super low,
Speaker: Because I, I just don't see it.
Speaker: I don't see it.
Speaker: I, they've been lost for a while.
Speaker: And if you just looking at the revenue stream, if you are not making money by selling your product, then you are losing money for your parent company.
Speaker: And apparently it eventually your parent company is going to be tired of it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And to say, what are we doing here?
Speaker: How long has American pinball been around?
Speaker: like seven years now, something like that.
Speaker: And, you know, they started with Houdini with Papa Duke and that was a train wreck.
Speaker: Then they got Balser and that, you know, that ran its course.
Speaker: And then they, they moved on with fix and now we are doing whatever version of this.
Speaker: I am definitely in the sit back and show me like, you need to show me a product.
Speaker: You need to show me something for me to have any faith in your company.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Because right now I don't, and I don't see,
Speaker: anybody really wanting to buy the next game, even though it looks, it looks interesting.
Speaker: I'll say it looks like a step up from what they've been making.
Speaker: We did talk to someone that's had hands on with it that develops pinball machines.
Speaker: I'll put it that way.
Speaker: And they had experience with it, lots of experience.
Speaker: And they had had questions of like, what makes this game fun?
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And the American couldn't answer that question.
Speaker: And so it concerns me.
Speaker: You've got a decent layout.
Speaker: You've got a good layout.
Speaker: I would say we've talked about this before.
Speaker: I think it's on par with a Stern Pro.
Speaker: Not a Venom or a Wick.
Speaker: And I'm not saying those are terrible layouts.
Speaker: I'm just saying I think this game has potential to be, if it was made at Stern, it'd be a mid-tier game.
Speaker: Yeah, okay.
Speaker: But I would argue Wick is a mid-tier game.
Speaker: Like it's, it's fun.
Speaker: Like the layout's fine.
Speaker: The layout is, is good.
Speaker: It's, it's a little challenging, but the, you can definitely tell that this has, is going to be a long player.
Speaker: You can do things.
Speaker: And I, I'm hoping when the code finally catches up to Elliot's layout, then it will be a good, it'll be a great game.
Speaker: But until it gets to that point.
Speaker: we haven't heard a word from what's going on with wick or, or Tim Sexton and all that jazz.
Speaker: It concerns me.
Speaker: I, I wish there were more things.
Speaker: I, my buddy down the street has an LE and I play it regularly when I go over to his house.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Actually, that's one of the games I play regularly at his house because it's, it's a beautiful game.
Speaker: It really is.
Speaker: And,
Speaker: I'm, I'm hoping that they're able to, to bring it to the, the finish line, but it really has been kind of radio silence for a while on that.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: So I've been tangential.
Speaker: Let me just wrap up the one.
Speaker: Okay, go ahead.
Speaker: There's a couple more things.
Speaker: There's just one more thing I want to pull up.
Speaker: And I just, here's the problem.
Speaker: When we have FixOn, we had a lot of people, they loved the last interview because they felt it was very candid.
Speaker: It was almost too candid, right?
Speaker: Like there was things like, ooh, Fix, you should be saying that.
Speaker: Shared a lot.
Speaker: I'll put it that way, but it's fine.
Speaker: But the problem with our previous interviews is they felt like,
Speaker: Fix is very much a salesman and, and there was, there was a lot of talk without substance essentially, right?
Speaker: Here, here's a statement that makes me think of this.
Speaker: Fix said he was so passionate about American that he hasn't taken a check since December 13th.
Speaker: When I messaged you this, it was on February 6th.
Speaker: I did the math.
Speaker: If he hadn't taken a check, if he'd been let go, mm-hmm.
Speaker: in December, shortly after our interview, it'd been pretty much 60 days from his 90-day non-compete, which meant he got fired around December 13th.
Speaker: Again, the difference between fired and let go, not renewed contract.
Speaker: I'm just pointing out that that does matter.
Speaker: It does matter.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: If he got let go on December 13th and he was so passionate about American, he wasn't taking a check from American since the 13th.
Speaker: So he's not claiming unemployment.
Speaker: Or was there a severance check that they tried to give him that he just wasn't taking?
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: When you finish employment, there are always going to be terms.
Speaker: And I know people who have decided that it didn't end the way they wanted to with the company.
Speaker: And the company said, we want to work.
Speaker: pay you X amount and there are always going to be conditions.
Speaker: And there are people who look at that and say, I do not like those conditions and therefore I will not take the money.
Speaker: And so I'm not going to sign, sign that severance package.
Speaker: If that's that situation, we are a hundred percent speculating here, by the way.
Speaker: But if he'd taken the severance package or didn't take it, that means he wouldn't have to do the non-compete.
Speaker: There's just not a lot of things passing the smell test with this interview.
Speaker: I do apologize.
Speaker: Like I said, I enjoy having you.
Speaker: I think it's nuance.
Speaker: I'll take the contrarian view.
Speaker: I will say that it's always complicated.
Speaker: It's always going to be a little more...
Speaker: nuanced than we want to make it.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I'm hoping there's more to it, but you know, you know.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: We've beat a dead horse with this one.
Speaker: Let's talk twippies.
Speaker: I don't know if we're supposed to announce this, but hey, we got an email.
Speaker: Well, we're going to be watching.
Speaker: We'll be watching because we're one of the finalists.
Speaker: We'll be involved.
Speaker: The finalists could be the top 20.
Speaker: They didn't say what finalists meant.
Speaker: You made the top 10.
Speaker: But I will say the Twippies is complex, right?
Speaker: I feel that I...
Speaker: I probably had an influence on part of the, the meltdown of the last year's twippies.
Speaker: That's why we did the episode that we did to like, because I, well, I, okay.
Speaker: I felt that there were lines that were crossed.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: And I felt that there is a big difference between entertainment.
Speaker: And once you start crossing the line to, uh, personal information being shared, uh, online, then, then that that's a big, that's a big line to cross.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And now I am happy that whatever has happened with all parties involved, it seems to be have mended some on some level.
Speaker: And so they've been able to move forward.
Speaker: And there are people who, you know, this is still a huge deal.
Speaker: I am flattered that people have voted for us.
Speaker: I love that there is something to recognize achievement in pinball.
Speaker: And this is one way that it happens, including content creators, including building games, including designing games, all that kind of stuff.
Speaker: So,
Speaker: I appreciate that are going on.
Speaker: So I I'm happy that things are going on.
Speaker: And Josh, when are the Twippies going to be announced slash shown this Saturday?
Speaker: Sorry.
Speaker: At 6 PM Eastern time, going till eight.
Speaker: If I remember correctly.
Speaker: And it's through wormhole pinball wormholes been killing it lately.
Speaker: They've done some amazing interviews.
Speaker: If you're not checking out wormhole, go check out their content.
Speaker: Cause it is insane right now.
Speaker: Some really great stuff going on there.
Speaker: But yeah, that's, that's what's going on there.
Speaker: It just kind of, it kind of floored me to get, we got an, an invite for a live,
Speaker: Zoom thing to be involved with the Twippies because we're finalists.
Speaker: We'll be around helping out.
Speaker: And we, again, a big thanks to everybody who voted for us.
Speaker: This isn't why Josh and I do it for awards, but it's nice.
Speaker: I'm not going to lie.
Speaker: It feels nice that people recognize and
Speaker: It's, it feels nice when people respond to us, mostly positive and enjoy what we do because this I'm Josh has shown you the, the money making we get, we got from our YouTube, which was 45 cents.
Speaker: That was hilarious.
Speaker: It's up to a dollar 33.
Speaker: We are, we are rolling in it.
Speaker: Rolling.
Speaker: So, okay.
Speaker: But again, this is something that we do for fun and I'm grateful that now,
Speaker: There are a lot of intangible things that we have gotten over this time.
Speaker: Josh and I have become great friends.
Speaker: We talk every week, multiple times a week usually.
Speaker: And there are so many people that we've met through pinball that have become some of my best friends.
Speaker: And so I really do want to thank you for what this interaction has been to me.
Speaker: And the insights that you have brought me into pinball have, have made me a better person than a more complete pinball player.
Speaker: So I really do appreciate that.
Speaker: I appreciate the people that come up to us and tell us that they enjoy our content.
Speaker: And you know, that there, there are people that thank us from our perspective because we have a good take on the industry.
Speaker: We are positive yet.
Speaker: We are give good constructive criticism.
Speaker: We, we hold the industry accountable at most points and we're not afraid to, to ask the hard questions and they appreciate that.
Speaker: And, uh, where I don't know, it just, it's nice to have people come up and just say they enjoy what we do.
Speaker: You know, we're not like, like Scott said, we don't do this for the awards.
Speaker: Uh, if, if we did, we would have called it quits in 2021 when we won the pinball industry award for podcasts and excellence.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: And, uh,
Speaker: It did make me chuckle because we did get a congratulatory thank you from our senator in Utah for winning.
Speaker: It was kind of, yeah.
Speaker: This is the first I've heard about that.
Speaker: You don't remember this?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Mike Lee said congratulations on winning the pinball in
Speaker: Okay, that is hilarious.
Speaker: I love that.
Speaker: You know, hey, anytime a senator, you know, one of the 100 people in the United States, two from your state.
Speaker: So thanks, Mike.
Speaker: I hope you're a big fan.
Speaker: And of course, it had to be the most controversial senator from our state.
Speaker: Well, actually, I wouldn't.
Speaker: That probably wasn't the most controversial.
Speaker: Mitt Romney just retired.
Speaker: Yeah, good point.
Speaker: Good point.
Speaker: Anyhow.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Trust me.
Speaker: In politics, there's always controversy.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And that's as political as we're going to get on this episode or any episode.
Speaker: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker: I want to give a quick thank you.
Speaker: We started up a Patreon and Jason Forbes and Colin.
Speaker: uh colin a colin alzheimer alzheimer you know kinestis this week in pinball have joined us at the loser kid level so that is the basic level that is the entry level so you're official loser kid now with us man that is awesome thank you and at the top tier so we have one we have the loser kids we have the the cool kids which is the mid-tier and then the top tier is the winner kids and we got a winner kid
Speaker: Mike H. I'm not going to pronounce your last name because it looks Swedish.
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: But Mike, thank you.
Speaker: That was $20 a month.
Speaker: I'm 25% Swedish.
Speaker: And so Mike, from my Swedish side, which is probably my upper right side, thank you so much.
Speaker: I appreciate it.
Speaker: Welcome to the Winter Kid level.
Speaker: The reason they joined, so Winter Kids are going to have a chance at joining us at the Media Days.
Speaker: So these ones that we keep being invited to, you know,
Speaker: if King Kong, I'm hoping it's Donkey Kong, but if King Kong is next for that one, and we get the invite from Stern, you could join us.
Speaker: We did talk to Jersey Jack and Jersey Jack said, no, we want to just focus on media.
Speaker: That's really fun.
Speaker: I will say we respectfully reached out to both Zach, Zach Sharp and Ken Prummel, and they both have great products and different approaches.
Speaker: And so Ken respectfully said, I think that we're going to focus probably on a more intimate group.
Speaker: And so it wasn't going to fit with what they were doing.
Speaker: Thankfully Stern said, that sounds like a great idea.
Speaker: We'd love, we'd love for you to bring them along.
Speaker: And so go ahead and tell them what the winter kid level let's do.
Speaker: So the winter kid level pretty much gets you an opportunity.
Speaker: We will probably do it pinberg pinberg style for the winter kids of, you know, you got to hit F5 to get in, but
Speaker: you will have an opportunity to join us.
Speaker: We will not pay for your expenses.
Speaker: Yeah, we can't pay for it.
Speaker: This is not an all-inclusive resort thing.
Speaker: I want you to know this is an opportunity to join us.
Speaker: And FYI, this is actually the reason why we started the Patreon is mainly to help us fund travel expenses and podcast expenses because we're still funding this.
Speaker: Yes, exactly.
Speaker: And so this is like Scott said, this is one way to help us find getting there because it sounds like most manufacturers, you know, after shenanigans that ensued last year.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I, I felt bad.
Speaker: I, I felt like the avatar one, it got a little hijacked, which I do feel bad because it took a little bit of the steam out of avatar, which we dedicated a full episode to, because I was like, thank you for bringing this out.
Speaker: And,
Speaker: And this is, this is what your, what your funds got, but, but so anyway, likely things in the future will be an invite, but they will not be funded for us to come.
Speaker: So we'll have to pay our own way.
Speaker: I didn't go out to dungeons and dragons because it would have cost me a half a pro game really.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And so I couldn't justify the short time, but I do appreciate that Stern was able to work with us so we could interview Dwight and Brian.
Speaker: And that was a great compromise that I really do appreciate Stern for doing that.
Speaker: Definitely.
Speaker: Again, if you want to be a plus one when we go and check out a new game, that is open for the Patreon.
Speaker: And all the other funds will be used to fund all the other stuff that we use.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: Speaking of D&D, did you hear that the LE node boards are having issues?
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's not the no board.
Speaker: So what's happening is the dragon.
Speaker: So the line workers are putting zip ties a little too taunt on the wiring that goes to the dragon and the dragon moves a lot and it's tethered.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's, it's, it's stretching that cable causing, you know,
Speaker: To expose and then causing to ground out and then causing to fry the board cables on stretching.
Speaker: Never.
Speaker: Exactly.
Speaker: They said the easiest way to fix this is to cut the zip ties that hold the wires into place, but they have a different fix coming in for those that have our actually had issues with it.
Speaker: But well, okay.
Speaker: This is now, Josh, I'm going to ask you, I understand from a marketing standpoint that people want, if they're going to pay for the LE, um,
Speaker: then you want it ASAP, right?
Speaker: I totally get that.
Speaker: The challenge that you're going to have though, and this is what the X-Men ran into as well.
Speaker: If you do the, the LEs first, you are going to, regardless of how finely tuned your design is going to be, you are going to find flaws.
Speaker: Like flaws that when you're going for a prototype to a manufacturer,
Speaker: product, you're going to find issues.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: So would you, when do you want to find those issues?
Speaker: Do you want to manufacture the LEs and send them out on the hope that you're not going to have major issues and you can fix them later?
Speaker: Or would you want to start with pros on location, get your team up to speed.
Speaker: You can troubleshoot things a little easier and then move to the LEs like they've done in the past.
Speaker: What,
Speaker: Hey, there's no right answer on this.
Speaker: What are your thoughts, Josh?
Speaker: I still think the right answer is getting the LEs out.
Speaker: I know you're going to run into issues and stuff like that, but those are your, those are the people spending the most money.
Speaker: They're the ones that should have the product in their house first.
Speaker: I get wanting to get pros out on a location and they can be kind of getting pigs and stuff like that.
Speaker: Like I said, these LE buyers, the warranty comes with it.
Speaker: Let the distributor take care of, of the people that are getting the LEs.
Speaker: And I, like I said, that's,
Speaker: Here's the thing.
Speaker: I'm assuming I don't get to see numbers for sales from Stern.
Speaker: They're not that chummy with us.
Speaker: They're chummy enough.
Speaker: They're chummy enough.
Speaker: Okay, but they don't release those to anybody, just FYI.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But we have had confirmations from different distributors.
Speaker: The best day for sales is usually the first week.
Speaker: Day one, yeah.
Speaker: Day one, first week or two, depending on how much...
Speaker: much you can stretch out the marketing how much you can stay in front of people's eyes right and that creating that fomo so i think the more you can sell the le's and get them all sold out that's you know we all joke about like well you shouldn't be doing kickstarter and stuff like that the le is essentially your kickstarter you can sell all 500 that's that's money in the bank it helps it gets you yeah push the rest of the okay it works i bought the metallica le i i bought it i could have bought
Speaker: The premium for a cheaper price, but I like the bling that this one has in the end.
Speaker: The premium has exactly the same play.
Speaker: It does.
Speaker: And I, and I just even bought the topper, which is not cheap.
Speaker: I put the topper on there too.
Speaker: I think we're, I think moving forward to, we're going to see a lot of things change with way.
Speaker: pinball can't keep going the way it is because the environment and the economic economics well it's regressed to the mean yes like the fever pitch of covid and people were stuck home and didn't spend any money on vacations yeah well now they're spending on money on vacations i mean i just took my kids to disneyland for three days yep and that's that ain't cheap that's a that's a pro level game right there well and the other thing too is is
Speaker: I, I, people are concerned because they feel like the market is crashing, which it's not, it's not, it's, it went back.
Speaker: It went back.
Speaker: There's a market correction.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's correcting.
Speaker: And, and the thing is, I think Stern, this is just me.
Speaker: This is, this is Josh who has a very little, I have some business under my belt, whatnot.
Speaker: I think you need to go to two core back to two cornerstones a year.
Speaker: That's what they were doing during COVID.
Speaker: And your third, uh,
Speaker: do your remake.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Cause here's the thing.
Speaker: Metallica proved that a game has been tried and true.
Speaker: It's going to sell out and there's not going to be any issues with it.
Speaker: So the remake is you're like ace in the pocket, right?
Speaker: That's what boost yourself.
Speaker: If it's, if it's a slow year, it boosts yourselves.
Speaker: I get doing the three quarter stones because like,
Speaker: If one doesn't do so good, the next one's right around the corner to make up for the cells that didn't do one before.
Speaker: I still think you do the two cornerstones with the remake.
Speaker: You're essentially still doing three cornerstones at that point, but you're still making more money, especially if you go the remake route of you're only doing premium LE.
Speaker: That's more cash in the bank than doing with the pros and whatnot.
Speaker: You don't have people judging back and forth.
Speaker: They're like, what do I do?
Speaker: Go the pro.
Speaker: Do I go the premium?
Speaker: If the pro shows better, you lose more money from your consumer.
Speaker: Just that's my opinion to do two cornerstones, a remake.
Speaker: And then if you want to do these anniversary ones, the anniversary premiums, not the LE is the anniversary premiums.
Speaker: And then that fills the gaps as well.
Speaker: I still think you're creating.
Speaker: I think it puts less stress on your teams.
Speaker: And, and like I said, if you're trying to thin the herd and group, give more, here's the thing with D and D, they need a more creative time, right?
Speaker: Like that's why X-Men suffered, uh,
Speaker: And it's not, I'm not going to say sorry, suffered.
Speaker: X-Men was, was half baked when it came out.
Speaker: Like it was not ready to be released, but because D and D needed more time, they pushed D and D back.
Speaker: Jack danger volunteered and said, Hey, I think X-Men's ready.
Speaker: It's good enough.
Speaker: It's good enough.
Speaker: And really we played it two weeks ago.
Speaker: It is good.
Speaker: It is a good game.
Speaker: I actually still want a pro.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: You're wrong.
Speaker: And I'll tell you why.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: I'm going to go back to the old Wayne Gretzky quote where he says, you miss a hundred percent of the shots you don't take.
Speaker: So I do agree with you on that.
Speaker: You need to do a remake.
Speaker: There are some great themes that are ripe for a re theme and I
Speaker: You can definitely, uh, or not rethink a resurrection or re remastered, whatever you want.
Speaker: I like the resurrection.
Speaker: Um, I come on who, who in their right mind would not want a Lord of the rings, uh, remastered.
Speaker: I agree.
Speaker: Who would not want a Simpsons pinball party remastered.
Speaker: Apparently Ghostbusters and Walking Dead is on the table too.
Speaker: That's the rumor right now.
Speaker: I cringe a little bit about the LCD on The Walking Dead because it will be
Speaker: vivid.
Speaker: Um, you gotta admit though, like literally the only thing on walking dead that is walking dead is the AMC and the title.
Speaker: Oh yeah, no, a hundred percent.
Speaker: But okay.
Speaker: But that gets back to, but zombies, they have zombies, but that gets back to, it's back to the future.
Speaker: As long as you got the DeLorean, you're good to go, man.
Speaker: And it's, it's good enough.
Speaker: Right.
Speaker: Um, but, uh, having three themes, um,
Speaker: And a remastered is the way to go.
Speaker: You still have three teams.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: They still have roughly a year and a half to two years to develop.
Speaker: Now, if you're not, if the Achilles heel on most of these games has always been the code.
Speaker: So if you are going to sell more games on day one,
Speaker: then you need to have more of a focus on the code.
Speaker: You do because it, yes, you sell, but if the code is not because things sell on theme and art and layout, right?
Speaker: Those are the things that sell.
Speaker: The code is not what sells.
Speaker: The LCD is not what sells, but when you actually have enough code there, then you're going to have retention.
Speaker: So think about how X-Men jumped out and people are like, whoa, this is amazing.
Speaker: And the layout I think is fun.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: The challenge is the code is so basic that elite players quickly tired of it.
Speaker: So if you actually prioritize it and say, okay, we will do three cornerstone games.
Speaker: And then if you have one that doesn't hit, then you can move on quickly.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So that's, I mean,
Speaker: It's no secret.
Speaker: The venom was not a big seller.
Speaker: It's no secret that John wick was a, it, it landed flat and then it, then it had a little bit more.
Speaker: And I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up in a year or two being like a stranger things phenomenon.
Speaker: But if you only rely on that and then you had maybe in a year, you have a venom and a John wick that is, that could be curtains.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So you need to have a margin of error in there.
Speaker: So that would be the remake.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: But the remake is still, you may or may not get the same thing, same sales that Metallica did, but I don't think you will for everything.
Speaker: Metallica is a legendary game with a legendary rule set and it's well beloved.
Speaker: Do you really have that many Metallica games?
Speaker: level games that you can rethink, you can, you know, whatever the remastered.
Speaker: Eventually you're going to run out of those.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: True.
Speaker: And there's also going to be licensing issues.
Speaker: Metallica didn't have licensing issues.
Speaker: Can you hear the vacuuming above me?
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Are you saying it sucks right now?
Speaker: No, no, not at all.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: I agree to disagree.
Speaker: I still think... I think the thing is there's not enough software coders there, and so I think they need more time.
Speaker: Legit, if you're going to be high, you need to have...
Speaker: the games in a better code situation when they're released.
Speaker: The days of releasing a code at 0.42 are over.
Speaker: Like you need to have, especially when you have something like an Elwin that consistently releases games that the code is far enough along that it is enjoyable and playable.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: All righty.
Speaker: We've talked about them a couple times already, but Dutch.
Speaker: Dutch.
Speaker: Dutch is delayed.
Speaker: I guess Alice in Wonderland is being pushed back a little bit.
Speaker: You know, I... Is this a shocker?
Speaker: Fine.
Speaker: Not at all.
Speaker: Not at all.
Speaker: And if you're going to...
Speaker: If you're going to buy this project game as bragging rights, the only reason why you're buying it is you're not buying it because it's an amazing player.
Speaker: It's not.
Speaker: You're buying it as a bragging piece.
Speaker: I actually prefer Magic Girl over Alice in Wonderland.
Speaker: Okay, they were both terrible, Josh.
Speaker: Magic Girl plays better in my opinion, I think.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: But that's like saying that you go zero to 60 in 15 seconds and not 14.
Speaker: The magic girl that actually works.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: There are plenty of magic girls in this world.
Speaker: Most of them do not work.
Speaker: The resurrected one.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: The resurrected one.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But okay, but come on.
Speaker: I mean, at this point, if anybody is buying a Dutch pinball product, then you know what it is.
Speaker: Sorry.
Speaker: If you're surprised at this level, then I don't know what to tell you.
Speaker: You obviously do not pay attention to any of the media, any of the history of them.
Speaker: And they've been writing stuff.
Speaker: strong on one successful game with a very complicated manufacturing history.
Speaker: Yeah, true.
Speaker: So they take forever.
Speaker: And I mean, they're still building Dutch.
Speaker: They're still building Lebowski's, which has been since I've started podcasting, which by the way, we've been doing this for six, six years now.
Speaker: Sorry.
Speaker: We finished our sixth year.
Speaker: We're starting on our seventh.
Speaker: We're starting our seventh.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So,
Speaker: I want to hurry.
Speaker: I've got that in our notes really quick.
Speaker: I just want to thank everyone who has been listening for this long.
Speaker: Pretty nuts.
Speaker: I did the calculations.
Speaker: Ready for the Scott?
Speaker: I'm ready.
Speaker: And in the six years we have been doing this, we are at 900,000 listens.
Speaker: That that's, that's insane.
Speaker: That is impressive and legit.
Speaker: I'm just grateful that you find us entertaining enough to be the silent third chair in our podcast.
Speaker: And I do appreciate it.
Speaker: And for all of those who have taken the next step and have reached out and interacted with us again, I, I appreciate it.
Speaker: And it makes us feel like what we're doing is worth it.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: Guess how many, I guess how many listens we had the first year we did this.
Speaker: You ready for this?
Speaker: 50,000?
Speaker: No, not even close.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: 18,000.
Speaker: We got a whopping 18,000.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: So we've come a long way in six years.
Speaker: So thank you for those that supported us.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Are we over a thousand subscribers on YouTube?
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: We're now over a thousand subscribers, which means we're a YouTube partner.
Speaker: Like you said, we've monetized.
Speaker: We've made a whopping dollar and 33 cents.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: All right.
Speaker: $1.33.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: So, so now Scott and I can both play split flipper on a stern game.
Speaker: On a stern game.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker: So no, it's great.
Speaker: So yeah.
Speaker: Just you got anything else before we wrap this up?
Speaker: You know, we do have that the silver ball swag.
Speaker: So check it out.
Speaker: Josh made a really cool eight bit retro version of the logo.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It looks really good.
Speaker: Like I, I am a sucker for eight bit because that is definitely the wheelhouse when I grew up from like 11 to 14.
Speaker: That, that was the, the NES, the, you know, it's that, that was my life back then.
Speaker: So I, it really takes me back to that sweet spot in my childhood.
Speaker: And so check out the shirt.
Speaker: It's a really great one.
Speaker: It's a really great one.
Speaker: It really is.
Speaker: And I need to get us some coming down too.
Speaker: That's the thing is I make these shirts and I'm like, dang it, I need to own another one.
Speaker: But my whole wardrobe is, is it lame that I have my own wardrobe of loser kid stuff?
Speaker: No, I don't know.
Speaker: Hey,
Speaker: I'm wearing a loser kid hat and I'm wearing it all the time.
Speaker: I wear it all the time.
Speaker: Actually, I think it's fun.
Speaker: I need to partition my wardrobe though, because I have my pinball shirts, which are probably about 20 at this point.
Speaker: So I can't keep them in my, in my active closet collection.
Speaker: I need to put them in a special like box.
Speaker: So I pull them out if I'm wearing a pinball shirt.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: It's awesome.
Speaker: I love it.
Speaker: And it makes me smile every time.
Speaker: Alrighty.
Speaker: Before we wrap this up content, I got two content creators for the episode.
Speaker: First one is Minnesota retro gamer.
Speaker: He is doing streaming right now.
Speaker: It's called the lunch break pinball.
Speaker: If you want to check it out, just go to YouTube lunch break pinball.
Speaker: does live stream through your lunch break.
Speaker: So give you something to do while you're eating your pizza or whatever.
Speaker: Yep.
Speaker: Really, really awesome dude.
Speaker: He wants to say he loves our show.
Speaker: He found out about our guys during the search, Seth Davis podcast that we put out recently.
Speaker: Thank you for all the hard work.
Speaker: We'll let you know that I stream pinball every day on both on YouTube and Twitch.
Speaker: So hoping to add a confider soon to the mix.
Speaker: Huh?
Speaker: Yeah, that's hard.
Speaker: Like streaming pinball is hard because you're playing and talking at the same time and you have to be engaging enough for people to watch.
Speaker: 100%.
Speaker: And so that our second one is actually past times arcade.
Speaker: Do you know they're making content Scott?
Speaker: I do now.
Speaker: So Tuesday mornings, apparently they play pinball.
Speaker: They stream live and the loser has to buy everyone coffees.
Speaker: And so it's a fun little.
Speaker: I know it's only like a Tuesday morning, but it become your Tuesday morning routine.
Speaker: So it's fun.
Speaker: This is this is something that is very similar to last time we went on to Expo.
Speaker: We played dollar games and, you know, it was the standard dollar game.
Speaker: It was fun to win.
Speaker: But what took it to the next level is when we decided that the person who lost had to pose like the back glass and get their picture taken so they could be shamed forever.
Speaker: So this is, uh, yeah, it's, Hey, I, I love the, uh, the loser buys a buys coffee though.
Speaker: And that's, that's pretty awesome.
Speaker: It's pretty awesome.
Speaker: If you want to get a hold of us, we're LoserKidPinballPodcast at gmail.com.
Speaker: Get a hold of us on all the socials at LoserKidPinball, Facebook, Instagram, Threads, X, whatever tickles your fancy.
Speaker: We're probably on it.
Speaker: Hit us up on YouTube.
Speaker: Hit the subscribe.
Speaker: Yada, yada.
Speaker: Scott, give us our last words.
Speaker: You know what?
Speaker: Go buy Metallica Topper.
Speaker: I know people were making fun of it, but it looks really good.
