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Ep 166 Hands on King Kong
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Scott and Josh sit down to talk about Scott's trip to Chicago to check out Keith Elwin's and Stern Pinball's latest game, King Kong. We also talk about The Pinball Network dissolving and will anyone buy Josh's Foo Fighters?
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Transcript
Introduction and Kong Discussion
00:00:07
Speaker
Thanks for tuning in to the loser kid pinball podcast. We're on episode one 66. I am Josh Roop with me. My co-captain Scott Larson and Scott. We have an awesome episode today. You and I are talking, we're going to about Kong and your visit up there.
00:00:20
Speaker
But before we get into that, if you want to buy King Kong, where are you getting yours from? You know, i'd call contact Zach and Nicole, many flipping out pinball.
Flippin' Out Pinball Recommendations
00:00:29
Speaker
They legitimately can like work a lot of deals for you. Uh, so it's great.
00:00:34
Speaker
Um, you know, tell them we sent you that they'll be able to ah figure something out for, you know, great shipping, great pricing. And even if you're, if you're not looking for Kong, Hey, if someone's unloading Godzilla and you want to pick up a used guy, you know, they have used games, they have accessories for everything. So just contact them. They're always good friends. So we appreciate their, ah their support of the but podcast.
00:00:57
Speaker
And also ah they do free shipping. At least they do it for us. So ah shipping is usually still part of their package
Addressing Criticism on Game Hoarding
00:01:04
Speaker
deal. Yep. And so stens on Stearns, right. and And so, so that's something to consider.
00:01:09
Speaker
um And you know, now, yeah, not, not all things like we still, Oh, by the way, I, I'm going to point out someone, someone was blasting me on our reviews that like I was hoarding games or something. I don't,
00:01:23
Speaker
I don't really understand. maybe Maybe this person, there was a troll. There was a troll. Yeah. I don't know what they were saying is like, i was like, actually I was buying these for, you know, I bought two medieval madnesses, one for me and one for my friend who was buying that one. He's paying for that one. I'm not paying for it.
00:01:38
Speaker
And we bought three ah CCR upgrade kits. But again, all three of us have the game. So yeah I don't really understand what they were
Reflection on the Disbanding of TPN
00:01:47
Speaker
thinking. But anyway. You're being greedy.
00:01:49
Speaker
Greedy is bad. It's like, yeah, i'm buying I'm buying full price stuff to use in my collection. Yeah. Weird, huh? You got officially banned from Pinball Kingdom because of it. Oh, no. Oh, no. Yeah.
00:02:00
Speaker
So you're no longer allowed still buying stuff. So if you're still buying stuff, reach out to Zach and Nicole. Yeah. Oh, it's it's kind of hilarious. But before we get into Kong, ah one thing is Dennis and Zach talked on the last pinball show that they have officially disbanded ah the Pinball Network, or TPN for short.
00:02:20
Speaker
um Go listen to the episode to get the kind of the full description on it. um I just wanted to give some, maybe some background. Like, i don't know. I really enjoyed the Pinball Network. I think it's really cool.
00:02:32
Speaker
what the creators of that were trying to do to help push and drive pinball content and help the community and the industry at large um yeah i'm going to share this story ah may it may it leaves it in the podcast may it doesn't i'll cut it out but scott do you remember when they officially announced the pinball network Uh, yeah, it was, it was like eight months after we started really yeah eight months or a year. It was right. Something, something along those lines. We, yeah we had, we were just cutting our teeth trying to be able to, to break into the pinball podcasting because at the time it was interesting. We had, we had a few other podcasts out there, yeah but it was like right around the time that we decided to start about four of them decided to retire. Yeah.
TPN's Goals and Community Impact
00:03:22
Speaker
Yeah.
00:03:22
Speaker
So it it it was interesting to see, okay, well, we're, hey, Josh and I are still going strong and interested in in talking about pinball. So, you know, when when the ah the pinball network announced, my theory was, is that they were just trying to get together a platform kind of like, this a, this may, this analogy may or may not work, but think of like,
00:03:46
Speaker
ah like TBS or or, TNT or something like that. So if you're interested in basketball, there'll be like tons of shows on basketball. If you're interested in pinball, there'll be tons of shows in pinball and you just have one location to, to go for it. So yeah that's, that's my theory behind what was going on.
00:04:02
Speaker
So they started like slightly before COVID. So at this point we'd already been doing a little over a year now. Okay. Um, We had had people like Eric Meniere, Keith Elwin, a handful of great interviews are under our belt. And it was funny because when they announced this, they never like really talked to us about it.
00:04:19
Speaker
And I was not going to lie. I was actually offended that they didn't approach us. ah Granted, this is like five years ago, Josh. And I have a lot more wisdom under my belt. Oh, okay. i like I thought it was fine. I was like, we have our thing. So I you i never really thought about it.
00:04:33
Speaker
I guess I had viewed it from a fact that like there was a bunch of people that i felt like were our friends. Sure. and
Gratitude towards Zach and Podcast Growth
00:04:38
Speaker
And it was kind of like the friend club had started. Right. And okay we weren't invited. um But I quickly came to, cause I talked to Zach behind the scenes about it.
00:04:47
Speaker
And that wasn't the case. Like this was, he's like, you guys have already got an established brand. Well, you have Keith Owen wearing your gear. on like a reveal stream of his pinball machine. He's like, I didn't feel like TP on how much to offer you guys. it was And but by the way, that was that we're, we are flattered and grateful that he wears our stuff. So it's, yeah, you know this is just a fun happenstance. Cool.
00:05:09
Speaker
So it was more of a place to help. those that wanted to get into podcasts and getting to streaming, so give them a platform to be seen and be heard. And one of the hurdles can be, you do have to pay for like hosting.
00:05:21
Speaker
You to pay for me for a website. That was all part of the package deal. Like you didn't, there was nothing that costs to get you up and going with the pinball network. And so after like we sat down and talked about, I was like, Oh, well I just, you know, I got my pennies in a bunch for no odd reason.
Connections through TPN
00:05:34
Speaker
You know, it's one of the great things about Zach is like, if I've ever had an issue with him, I just sit down and I talk with him and ah Zach has been great to us over the years. There's been so many times that he's, ah I mean, we're doing so well right now as loser kid because of some of the motivations he placed with us as our sponsor.
00:05:52
Speaker
And I just want to thank him personally because man, He was one of the first people I reached out to after I did the pilot episode for Loser Kid. And I sent it to him and said, hey, I respect what you do with at the time was this week in pinball.
00:06:03
Speaker
ah What do you suggest? And he actually suggested bringing on a co-captain, which ended up being Scott. So, I mean, if it wasn't for Zach, the Loser Kid you know today wouldn't probably exist in the form that it is right now.
00:06:18
Speaker
So, and even, I mean, the pinball network brought together with one one of our best friends now, uh, triple drain. And if you haven't subscribed to their new YouTube channel, go check them out. Uh, since pinball network has disbanded, they had to start up their own channel and they kind of reset and subs.
Triple Drain YouTube Promotion
00:06:34
Speaker
And so to get monetized by YouTube, you have to hit a thousand subscribers.
00:06:38
Speaker
And so go, go help them out. It would be awesome. But, um, so reach out. I also, I am wearing the triple drain shirt today. So. I will tell you one funny funny story. I know that I don't think anyone knows except for maybe Scott. and I don't know if you even know the story.
00:06:56
Speaker
Do you remember when we had Martine on from 99% Invisible Podcast? yeah yep No, I remember him. That podcast i mean is insanely huge. like Millions and millions of subscribers and they did an episode. If you haven't listened to it, I'd have to look up the episode numbers, but they did one on pinball. It was kind of a ah revisit of one that they had already done before, but had been so long since they done it. They were like, well, this is obviously
Podcast Growth Challenges and Success
00:07:21
Speaker
exploded in the last decade.
00:07:22
Speaker
We should do an update. And so Martina had reached out to us to get, cause we had the connections in pinball and he's like, you've obviously had Keith Elwin on. And so you want to interview Keith and Roger. And, and so we kind did all those. Right. And it was funny. Cause like at the end of it I asked him, I said, Hey, you're obviously involved with a giant podcast, someone that is monetized very well and whatnot.
00:07:45
Speaker
What would you recommend to help us grow as loser kid? And he said, you know, did you know that there is a network dedicated, just a pinball called the pinball network.
00:07:56
Speaker
And I'm like, I did. and he's like, you should check them out. I think, i think they could help grow your numbers yeah if if you go to them. And it just kind of made me chuckle because like knowing behind the scenes, like we've been best friends with Zach and sure Dennis and all those that started, ah started the pinball network. It just made me chuckle. And Graham, we did that up episode, what a year or two ago.
00:08:18
Speaker
yeah so this is a while. Yeah. Yeah. But it just, yeah, it it shows that, In the effort to bring people together for an entertainment purpose, purpose And trying to reach out, trying to give a different shows with different styles, a platform, then it allows people to find them. And especially when you're starting out, finding people and finding content is one of the hardest things to do.
00:08:47
Speaker
It is because like right now we are lucky enough that over seven years, we have at least developed some, some reputation. But in many ways, that's with a combination of hard work and luck yeah that we were able to to get a connection with people.
00:09:07
Speaker
And i i I don't know how other people can do a similar thing just because a lot of time it's timing, it's it's your content, it's your style, your perspective.
00:09:19
Speaker
And and so I appreciate what they were trying to do. And I, it seems like it, it's at least accomplished many of the goals they set out to do. And it's time to, I guess, fold it and move on.
00:09:32
Speaker
Yep. Yep. So I just want to say, like I said, I want to say thanks to Zach again. We've hit so many different milestones in this last four months because of some of the goals that we've put in place with Zach and whatnot.
00:09:43
Speaker
ah The one that I wanted to share, I shared this with you this week, Scott, was we have officially hit 28,000 listens in the last 28 days. That means loser kid on average is getting about a thousand listens ah day right now, whether it's being watching us on YouTube or listening to us via the podcast. And that doesn't include our shorts or anything like that. That is straight
King Kong Pinball Release and Experiences
00:10:05
Speaker
episodes.
00:10:05
Speaker
So, I mean, It's just really cool how ah how the YouTube went from on average a month with 1,700 views and now we're we're over 10,000 views per month and we haven't dipped underneath since. And now we're at 20-something thousand for YouTube. so and And I will say that I i appreciate that our show as is, in many ways, it's kind of an imaginary show where a group of three people and you're the, you're the invisible guest in our, in our, in our chat group.
00:10:39
Speaker
And we hope that when we're talking and Josh and I are are playing off each other, that there are things that you come up and say, well, I'm thinking of this because that tells us that we're having a genuine conversation.
00:10:52
Speaker
And it's a conversation that you would have with other people who are you know pinball people, because that's really how we connect. And it's one of our hobbies. i We're husbands and fathers. and That's number, you know the tide for first in our priority list in life.
00:11:09
Speaker
And this is a great distraction for us to be able to still communicate with other people on something that in the grand scheme of things doesn't hold a candle to those primary goals, but it keeps me balanced.
00:11:21
Speaker
So I appreciate that. Definitely. Well, let's get to, uh, you got to go to see King Kong released, man. oh I do want to say i got some high tops. Oh, you did. Yep.
00:11:33
Speaker
I did too. I don't have mine with me. I got the grays. You got the teals. I, I, yeah, i got the, I got the teal ones. they They look really good. So yeah I'm excited, but yes. Uh, so that was in silver ball swag and Josh is wearing one of our eight bit shirts.
00:11:48
Speaker
Yep. So it's a silver ball swag still. when you live live Wearing the loser kid attacks. I'm using lose loser kid attacks. We're swagging everything up today. So, so Glenn Wechter, friend of the podcast has deemed our shoes. This is what he named. He named them is the losers.
00:12:05
Speaker
Yeah. That's, that's love it. And I'm totally, so the high tops are high. It doesn't matter what shoes you get. You're getting the losers. Yeah. They're amazingly comfortable. Yeah. We've gotten some pretty rave reviews.
00:12:17
Speaker
And I've enjoyed mine. I've already got mine dirty. I'm like, crap. Do i need to buy another pair? Do I wash these? like Yeah, I don't know. it's It's interesting. But it it is fun. It is fun to do that. but yep Okay. So I was able to go to Chicago. Josh was not.
00:12:31
Speaker
um Now, I definitely want to give a shout out to the Winter Kids. And so, Josh, go ahead and tell tell people how the Winter Kids got to come to Chicago with us.
00:12:45
Speaker
ah Go ahead. You take it. So, so I wasn't able to attend. So I made an agreement to, uh, I got to pick one show to go to. um and unfortunately i didn't make it to either one of them because, well, okay. It didn't work out timing. You had a vacation with your family.
00:13:01
Speaker
Exactly. And so it's funny. I won't give the whole long story of that, but yes, exactly. I had a vacation with my family. It just happened to land. The day I left for the vacation was the day for the Kong.
00:13:11
Speaker
yeah So we have told you but guys about our Patreon. And if you are in the winter kid tier, the top tier, you are and automatically entered for a chance to join us on media days where they allow us to have guests.
00:13:25
Speaker
um Where I wasn't going, we only had two winter kids. And so reached out to Zach and I Zach, yeah so far i reached out to zach and i said zach ah Where I'm not coming, can can we just bring the other one as a guest and he can have my ticket essentially?
00:13:40
Speaker
And he's like, yeah, this time, let's do it this time and see how it works out. So Mike and Alan, our winter kids, ah We told them both said, you're both getting to join us. And then Scott had the great idea of, you know what? They're joining us. Why don't we give them some shirts too? So you got them the new eight bit loser kid. I got the eight bit shirts. Yeah.
00:13:57
Speaker
So how did that go That's how I want to know. How did that go? How meeting some friends of the podcast, they you know, they were so nice. ah And ah this is also, as you know, ah Patreon is just a way that we can help support the podcast.
00:14:12
Speaker
Um, uh, Josh and I put in a lot of our own funds to do this stuff and, and take time off work and also travel to, to do media events.
00:14:22
Speaker
So there is, there is a cost associated with that. So this was a way of, of allowing people to come. So we asked them to donate some money to toward the show and they both donated. So we, ah we definitely appreciate that.
00:14:35
Speaker
Yep. But that definitely keeps, uh, it It certainly doesn't pay for the show so far, but it it it keeps things going. Now,
Keith Elwin's Design Journey and Philosophy
00:14:43
Speaker
the Patreon, by the way, if you guys are interested in giving us ideas for what would make you want to subscribe to Patreon, let us know. and is it I know some people do calls, they do chats, they they do something you know monthly.
00:14:57
Speaker
i I'm interested to know what would make you interested in throwing a few bucks to support the show. Because I think that would really help us out and help you out too, because you get more of what you're looking for. Yeah. ah So we contacted them.
00:15:11
Speaker
They both, I flew in the night before, i got in about 1am, checked into the hotel that's right across the street from Stern and I went to sleep. And then the morning I got up, got ready and ah met both of them.
00:15:28
Speaker
yeah Mike and Alan. And then we went over to Stern and Stern, there was a ah lot of people there. So it was really nice. You go and check in and go in. And ah we immediately sat down in the big front room. So if if you haven't been to Stern, I highly recommend they've done such a good job of setting it up ah that they have in the big entry room, they have lines of games. Right.
00:15:54
Speaker
So there's a lot of games and I'll get to the games that i I haven't played much of because they have them there. So they get up and then... uh you know gomez gets up and elwynn gets up and they talk about kong and they talk about how the how the game came about um ah interesting because we were joking about it a little behind the scenes we're like oh well keith did godzilla keith is the monster guy so obviously he's going to do king kong well that wasn't immediately actually in the cards
00:16:30
Speaker
But when they announced when Godzilla became such a huge hit, Gomez went over to Keith was like, okay, so you're doing, you're doing Kong now, right?
00:16:41
Speaker
And Keith was like, no, I like, ah like, no, I think, I think I'm good. Let's try it. Let's try something else. But Gomez like persisted on him for like four days. And so Keith's like, okay, all right, I'll go ahead and do Kong.
00:16:55
Speaker
And this could not have been a better fit for, uh, for a game, for a designer and also a perfect companion match to Godzilla.
00:17:11
Speaker
Um, so I, I, I've, I've talked to Josh a little behind the scenes and we'll talk a little bit more about his thoughts on Godzilla or excuse me, King Kong. But i I truly believe if King Kong and Godzilla were released simultaneously at the same time, such as like when Guns N' Roses did Use Your Illusion 1 or Use Your Illusion 2, I think you would have sold an equal amount of Kong and Godzilla.
00:17:40
Speaker
i I truly believe this game is that good because it had the the thing that makes Elwyn so great is he's able to create long ball paths that are connected with multiple shots that, you know, it's high velocity ball moving that you are controlling and interacting with.
00:18:04
Speaker
And at the same time, having those high end rule sets that, that connect with tournament players. Yeah. So and it's, it's kind of a all along the spectrum.
00:18:16
Speaker
Borg is such a great designer. He can also be very punishing for an entry level player. So Elwin has a way of actually kind of well welcoming the entry level players in without completely over rewarding them with a high score.
Factory Tour and King Kong Pinball Features
00:18:33
Speaker
You have to know the rules to score high on Elwin. Yeah, but definitely. ah So that that was that entering in. um Now we also had, now i by the way, this is me talking a lot. So Josh, any questions up to this point? What are your thoughts, questions? What are you thinking?
00:18:52
Speaker
So you got in there, they kind of told you about Kong. I know in times before when we go, they kind of dive divvy up into groups and they only let somebody go back because they all want everyone to experience it and have time on the game.
00:19:06
Speaker
um Was it kind of the same such situation? Did you do the factory tour first? Like how did, how did it all go? You're right. They did divide us into two main groups. And one was we, we walked the line and did the tour.
00:19:20
Speaker
And i went with Kyle. So that's what I did um first. And by the way, if you have met Kyle, he's awesome. Kyle Spiteri, right? What was that? last It's Kyle Spiteri, right?
00:19:31
Speaker
Really tall dude. Yeah, tall dude. Tall dude. And he, ah so he took us on the tour and it is really fun watching the line go because when the line is in, is in full mood, you're seeing all the different mechanisms that are going into the game. And,
00:19:51
Speaker
ah Now, a couple interesting things is Kong doesn't have any pop bumpers. But here's my question, They're cheap, They're cheap and out. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. There are some people who are talking about pulling stuff out.
00:20:03
Speaker
um But pop bumpers, like i've yeah I've never gone up to a game and said it has the most amazing pop bumpers ever. Like pop bumpers are basically...
00:20:17
Speaker
time extenders. It's this, hey, you get it up there and it bounces around a little bit and probably adds 10 seconds to your game and people feel like something's doing a lot, but when really it's not doing much.
00:20:29
Speaker
When I first was into pinball first couple years of pinball actually love pop bumper nests and from a competitive standpoint. I know it's kind of boring, but like when you start a multi ball and you get a ball up in the pop bumper nest, yeah that gives you more time on a s single ball, but you're still getting points.
00:20:45
Speaker
The other thing too, I really loved at that point in time when I first started. Um, modes that incorporated pop bumper nests, like the mummy from monster bash. Yeah. You have to hit so many pop bumpers and then it starts the mummy. Right.
00:20:58
Speaker
Yep. Um, as time has went on, it's kind of something I avoid now. It's not my favorite thing, but I can see where people can love pop bumper nests from a perspective of maybe a newbie or a novice that gets points from that. And it's, it's not hard to get up into those and stay inside of them.
00:21:18
Speaker
There are things about pop bumpers that you can integrate in interesting ways. So I'll give you Iron Maiden, the shot through the pop bumpers. That's a hard shot.
00:21:29
Speaker
it's not It's not easy to get up there. And so there can be some danger, some challenge. Godzilla, that pop bumper down on the lower right, that can be a dangerous pop bumper. Like you can actually hit that and it can drain your ball.
00:21:42
Speaker
and ah I would argue a well-placed pot bumper is awesome, but pot bumper nests are kind of a thing of the past. Yes. Yeah. i And and i I would say that too. So he didn't put that in, but there are you know some some amazing paths. If you look at the play field, it is divided somewhat.
00:22:03
Speaker
On the left side, it feels a lot more jungle, a lot more organic. There is a river shot over there, which is really fun because it has a diverter that will bring the ball over to an upper flipper.
00:22:17
Speaker
But sometimes that diverter can be down too. And it actually takes the ball down the river on the left and it actually cuts across the out lane and gets into your left flipper.
00:22:31
Speaker
So a little, you know, it, it is a little weird at first to get used to that just because you're not, you're, when you're typically think of the outlane, you don't typically think of a safe lane beyond the outlane. So it's kind of similar to Jersey Jack's Pirates of the Caribbean, right? In many ways that vibe is there.
00:22:54
Speaker
With, with that, that in lane, out lane, lane. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So there's also, but that upper shot, it's, it's pretty smooth getting that upper shot because what it can do is it can connect to about three or four different shots.
00:23:12
Speaker
So if you, if you pull up the play field and look at it, the, you know, that upper flippers actually probably ah it's beyond halfway on the play field.
00:23:25
Speaker
And it is, it's pretty flat as opposed to a lot of upper flipper shots. If you look at most upper flipper shots, they're angled pretty far down, right? Because a lot of times it's, it's kind of associated with like an orbit shot or something.
00:23:39
Speaker
And so it has to have that angle so it can go down to the bottom flipper. But this one's a a lot flatter. And what it does is it it, you shoot up to a shot that, that carries around And then it can you can end up on the left ah excuse me the right upper flipper, and you can take that too. And so there's about five different shots that you can connect to that shot.
00:24:06
Speaker
So it's kind of like upper flipper to upper flipper where you can kind of crazy eight back and forth? You can get some, but I would say if you look at Godzilla, the... The connection of many Godzilla shots would be, you can do left ramp, right ramp, and then you can actually go right back to the left ramp, right?
00:24:26
Speaker
um There's also, and sometimes you can do like ah left ramp, right ramp. You could do a, ah you know, a building shot. ah You know, you can do the magnet save. You can do the tail whip. So Even on Godzilla, there are some levels of connecting multiple shots, but this one takes it to an even ah extended level.
00:24:48
Speaker
So it it it's just like you can you can hit so many great balls on the fly without trapping up. So is the is the flipper to flipper, is it similar to like the squeeze box combo on Weird Al?
00:25:03
Speaker
I haven't had enough time on Weird Al to to make that call. Okay. But it's ah it is interesting, though, that they that that upper flipper, though, just it does make it it it does make it different.
00:25:18
Speaker
And if you look at the premium, so on the there is actually a physical ball lock on the premium at slash l LE. and And that's with the...
00:25:29
Speaker
ah The car, the would the trolley car shot, or and I'm not sure exactly, the subway. The subway, yeah. Okay. Whatever that is. And that's cool. It is a physical ball lock. And so when when you get it, Khan can knock it and drop all the balls out of the physical ball lock.
00:25:47
Speaker
Cool. um Two main differences is if you look at the play field, the... On the premium, there is a spider that will grab the ball on the lower left side.
00:26:04
Speaker
And it's activated with a magnet. So it actually slows the ball down. Yeah. When we talked to Keith, he's like, I can't believe didn't mention this on the podcast. The spider is not on a coil. Yeah. It's. It's actually activated by the magnet. magnet pulls it down and draws it in.
00:26:17
Speaker
Yeah. And so it's actually, it's pretty cool. And it does a little bit of a stop thing. And this is genius. I'm not sure it's intentional, but this is genius because on the premium, you have the ball that grabs it or the spider that grabs the ball and slows it down a little bit.
00:26:36
Speaker
on the left side, but on the right side, you have a gong. Um, that that's, that's lot like the ACDC bell shot. it's It's more advanced and it actually does pull up and you can put balls behind it, but that can be a very dangerous shot because if you shoot it up there and the gong hits it, it can, it can ricochet back down the middle.
00:27:00
Speaker
So okay you now on the flip side, on the pro you don't have that danger on the gong shot, but you don't have the benefit of the spider on the magnet shot.
00:27:14
Speaker
So you're still getting some, some danger there. It's, it's just a different side of the danger.
Theme and Cultural Impact of King Kong
00:27:20
Speaker
Yeah. Um, so overall, ah did you enjoy the game? Like, did you play both premium pro?
00:27:28
Speaker
did. What did you think? Okay. eight Legit. This is, this is definitely, if you like Godzilla, you're going to like King Kong.
00:27:40
Speaker
it has a now it is not the same game. and And so I don't want you to feel that, uh, that I'm just saying, if you have one, you don't need the other one. No, it's not the same game, but it has so many elements of high level ball path connectivity that is, is so good that will make you want to have both.
00:28:01
Speaker
And the way you approach the different games are, are they are going to be slightly different. Um, And, uh, and I didn't feel any difference with people are like, oh, it's an unlicensed thing. was like, well, okay, technically it's a public domain theme, but it is off the book.
00:28:18
Speaker
And so, you know, it is, it is something that is based on something that we all know. Okay. It's just funny to me. Cause like King Kong is very, um,
00:28:31
Speaker
in the cultural zeitgeist because it's been around forever. i think the iconic Kong climbing the empire state building. Sure. But the funny part is, i don't know if I've actually outside of Kong skull Island, which is not really. Yeah.
00:28:46
Speaker
I mean, it is a Kong movie. Don't get me wrong. I don't, I didn't see the with Jack black. I haven't seen the original black and white. yeah It's just, it's not a theme. It's something that I've always known about because it's been referenced and shown in other cultural aspects between pop culture and stuff like that.
00:29:02
Speaker
Honestly, it doesn't bother me that it's a it's a public domain license. Right. it's in Okay. Name one character besides King Kong that is necessary for the story.
00:29:16
Speaker
ah The girl. Okay. But, okay. What's the girl's name? Is it Jane? yeah Okay. I don't know. no Okay. Exactly. But that's my point. My point is that it's not like saying, hey, you can have the Avengers, but you can't have Iron Man.
00:29:33
Speaker
Right. It's like, Hey, you, you want King Kong and you got the, you got the giant gorilla that that's pretty much all you need. Yeah. And you can create your storyline with that. So in many ways, it's a very similar approach to the storyline does cover the, it covers the book. Yeah.
00:29:53
Speaker
Um, but it's, it's almost like, Hey, we're still in the King Kong world. Like you're in the Jurassic park world. Um, and you could even argue like, Hey, you're in the Godzilla world because, um, I, I've never seen any of the Godzilla films other than the new ones, not the, the, you know, the Toho ones I haven't seen except for maybe it was Godzilla plus one. That was a Toho one, right?
00:30:19
Speaker
and Minus one? Yes. Yeah, the minus one. yes yeah but but Plus one. This is Godzilla. My plus one is going on. Godzilla It's how they make more Godzillas.
00:30:34
Speaker
If you look at it, I didn't watch any of the Godzilla movies. They're campy. They're fun, but it it doesn't take away from the story for me. Yeah. So that there's nothing thematically that I feel like we are missing by having a public domain theme out of a book that we're all familiar with.
00:30:53
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:55
Speaker
Yeah. So, so anyway, when on the, we went on the big tour, ah able to see cool things underneath the play field. Afterwards we came in and that's when, you know, uh, Keith and Gomez were talking about, you know, the game, they were talking about, you know, how they were integrating that in.
00:31:13
Speaker
And then we got a chance to play it. Uh, we also got a chance. Um, I had 15 minutes, uh, alone with the game and, um,
00:31:25
Speaker
And I brought both... It's Alan allen Mike, right? Yes. Yeah. Brought both Alan and Mike in there. And it it was fun. Alan's a really good player, by the way.
00:31:37
Speaker
He was playing a lot. So I was able to watch him play and and see a lot the ball paths and be able to get up close. You definitely will take advantage of this in a home environment.
00:31:48
Speaker
the The sound is great. um They do have custom animations for this. Now, you're always... the LCD is probably the last thing you're going to care about most in a game, right?
00:32:03
Speaker
Most of the time, the LCD, the whole purpose of it is to provide information for your game. And the, the plus and minus of having an unlicensed game is that you don't really have assets to draw from as in like, Hey, I'm just pulling movie clip and i'm I'm dropping it in. Yeah. So they, they have their own animations.
00:32:25
Speaker
They have their own ways of doing that stuff in. And so you can look at that and you you can, you can like that. It's their own animations. You could be disappointed that it's not going to be like movie clips from like Kong versus King versus Godzilla or something like that.
00:32:41
Speaker
But I would say that it's it's functional. It gets everything done. And thats that still conveys all the information that you need in the game. But I never really watch um and never really watched an LCD, especially while I'm playing a game.
00:32:55
Speaker
Yeah. But if you are going to have a take on it, there are going to be people who are like, Hey, I like the Jersey Jack approach where it's like you are flooded with this giant screen that you're watching the movie and it has other stuff too.
00:33:11
Speaker
Because they they approach they approach it differently with the LCD. they They make it more of a prominent feature in their games. And so i would focus that I would argue that Stern Games, they...
00:33:25
Speaker
they tend to take the attitude that the LCD is there to provide information and to do like a quick little ah animation. If something happens, like a ball gets locked or something.
00:33:38
Speaker
So did you enjoy King Kong overall? Yes. Yeah. Did you, ah so are you, are you in on one? Is this a game that you'd consider in on your collection? What? I'm getting a premium.
00:33:49
Speaker
I know that I know that many people were saying, Hey, the pro is good. And I agree with them. I agree with them. I am in the camp that I tend to buy the toppers. I tend to do stuff like that, right?
00:34:04
Speaker
yeah And my attitude is there's enough cool stuff that is functional in the game that the premium offers that the pro does not.
Stern's Licensing and Financial Strategies
00:34:14
Speaker
ah to make it worth it for my money.
00:34:17
Speaker
um A couple of things that I think are pretty darn cool. ah the and The King Kong moves a lot with the premium. It is an integrated animated feature in the game.
00:34:31
Speaker
So he will actually ah move his arms up and down. I did ask specifically that, hey, we've had issues with with toys that have arms that can hold the ball, right?
00:34:44
Speaker
Like the Hulk arms that that's, that's immediately what I was thinking of. Um, the, the King Kong is so tucked back in the upper right hand side, that it'd be pretty hard to do that.
00:34:56
Speaker
Um, he actually hits when they start the multi ball, he hits that, trolley cart and tips it. And so it's a cool physical interaction.
00:35:07
Speaker
Also, you can set it and I don't know if it's a default setting or something you add, but he can actually punch the glass with his fist, which is that's really cool yeah it's kind of a fun thing, right?
00:35:19
Speaker
Unless people really never want their invisible glass touched. Yeah. um It is a it's just a cool feature. um So the physical ball lock, I just think it's cool.
00:35:31
Speaker
It's just, ah again again, another fun aspect that I like and the spider down the bottom and the gong. So, you know, the four main things that I would say. and But Keith is very good about making sure the pro is a packed pro.
00:35:47
Speaker
If you are a pro buyer, you do not have anything to worry about. Because this thing, it's not like, hey, the major thing's gone from the gameplay. No, actually, the major thing is still pretty there.
00:35:59
Speaker
So the other question I have, too, I don't know. They've only done this. We've only been to Wick, Kong, and Metallica releases. okay And I know they didn't do this with Metallica. Did they pull aside the media content creators?
00:36:15
Speaker
And do because remember, we went to WIC. We all went into a conference room. Yeah. And they gave us kind of a deep dive. but No, it seemed like with WIC was more of a, hey, this is the approach. You guys ask us how we make games. And so here let's talk about this.
00:36:32
Speaker
you know, this was a, we, it takes two years to really get a game. ah You know, it takes at least a year and a half from ah when the initial part to release time.
00:36:45
Speaker
And then you also have like, you know, six months of negotiating, like licensing and all that kind of stuff. So you're basically looking about two years. So, so what, the reason I bring this up is because There's some information that was given in that meeting that we could talk about, and there were some that wasn't. then there was nothing there was no There was nothing that they said, hey, don't talk about this.
00:37:08
Speaker
and and by And by the way, there wasn't anything terrible that they revealed in the other one. This was more of just, hey, we're going to tell you how complex licensing really is. And and most of most of the things that you have questions about as a fan, well, why didn't they do that?
00:37:26
Speaker
Guess what? They have those same questions. And there were some things that they couldn't do because they couldn't get the licensing to line up on it. So the reason I bring this up is because some of the comments that we've had on this past episode, when we recorded with Keith Elwin at 2.30 in the afternoon, our time. Yeah. Got done by what? Four o'clock our time.
00:37:47
Speaker
I sat down. edited everything down, went back to work, came back while it was all rendering and ah uploaded it, got it pushed out and published.
00:37:59
Speaker
and then we recorded the dune episode 8 30 our time correct yeah it was kind of a brain like a brain fry because it was a it was definitely drinking from a fire hose so much yeah but um the point being going back to the l1 episode okay so he talked about uh with this being and a public domain license um just some of the different challenges that they had and you had asked Something on the financial side, pretty much like since there's not much of a cost public public domain wise, right mean you get to put more into the game. yeah And Elwin had said, no, it's kind of like two separate ah spreadsheets.
00:38:34
Speaker
It's the best way to put it. I know we we talk bomb, but then people get well, what's bomb? And then there's confusion. We're just going to pretend it's spreadsheets, right? So there is a spreadsheet financially for building the game and there is a spreadsheet financially for licensing.
00:38:47
Speaker
hmm. If you run a business, maybe it's fixed costs versus fluctuating costs, stuff like that. and And I bring this up because some of the comments were like, well, CERN's just cheaping out on us with the license if they're not giving Ellen more to put into the game because they're not paying as much for a license one not and one of the things that they had explained to us was because it wouldn't be fair to the other designers as well.
00:39:15
Speaker
let's let's say they did do a public domain license or they did and and you know ah unlicensed theme and all that extra cash that would go towards a license was then dumped into a pinball machine.
00:39:25
Speaker
yeah I mean, when you're comparing Stern's apples to apples, one would look wildly different than the other. And granted, L1 games do look different. They do.
00:39:37
Speaker
um But it's because he's an expert on ball paths. It's because he he really is an expert on the way the the kinetic movement of the ball. He moves the ball different than other other players, other ah designers. He really does.
00:39:50
Speaker
Well, and not that, this is a man that did pinball service and tech work for years and years and years. So he also looks at it as like, do we really need to use six or seven different screws when we can use one of the same screw, keep the cost down that way? Like, it is amazing to see how Keith looks at building a game.
00:40:08
Speaker
when And he even alluded to this some on our on this episode when he was talking about, I ran out of my coils. Like, I can't use any more spaces or any more stuff on it because we've tapped out every single terminal you can use.
00:40:20
Speaker
That's why you can't use a pop bumper nest because pop bumper nest use three coils. Yeah. That's three coils that are now, not you know, unless you're, unless you're tied together like bond or Jurassic park home.
00:40:31
Speaker
But then people complain like, Oh yeah, look, they're all tied together. It's how cheap they are. now So it's just really funny to me. It's just really funny to me. But you know, you you can You can be keyboard warriors all you want.
00:40:44
Speaker
i is You've got to give a little bit of a break. I get the prices of are high on pinball machines right now. I get the things in the used market are down. i just to To use justification of saying, hey, like Stern cheaped out by doing it an unlicensed theme or a public domain theme, and they're just trying to make an extra buck. I just i don't think that's the case.
00:41:04
Speaker
Maybe it is. I don't know. but like Well, okay. Here's the here's the bottom line. what is Stern's main job? If you were owning Stern as a company, what would you, what is your overall goal?
00:41:19
Speaker
To make money. You want to make money and you want, you know, just, I, I've always said it before. The first time I met Steve Ritchie, the first, how he introduced himself in the seminar was I'm Steve Ritchie and I sell pinball machines specifically sell pinball machines.
00:41:36
Speaker
Yeah. And they have a big ah They have a big factory. Now, if you look at it in the overall scheme, do you want the monster licenses to ah to gain you know access to people? Of course you do. yeah Of course you do. You want these things that you you want things like the Matrix.
00:41:57
Speaker
you want you know You don't want bands. You don't want the dad rock bands that the people who are buying pinball machines want to buy. So you're going to be going after these licenses.
00:42:08
Speaker
However, it is also counter to their overall goal to make a good machine every time if they if they penalized a designer for giving them an elite license.
00:42:26
Speaker
Right? If the license costs so much that all you had was a single pop bumper in the middle of the play field and two flippers, you're not going to want to do the license.
00:42:38
Speaker
Yeah. And so it is this, it's this walk that they, they definitely have to figure out, okay, so we are going to have a licensing budget for our entire company.
00:42:51
Speaker
And we are going to have a build budget for each game. And the hope is that each game is going to provide an equivalent value for what you're what you're going to see.
00:43:07
Speaker
Well, kind of what I was trying to get to is, so we had a couple of complaints of people like, why didn't you grill Keith more on price? Like, why didn't you grill more on like, b The BOM and stuff like that.
00:43:18
Speaker
And here's the reality of the situation. We can ask Keith those questions. he's He can't answer because he doesn't know. well so when you're a designer, so there's there's two different there's two different departments. There's actually a couple more than two departments.
00:43:33
Speaker
but there's a financial department and there is a design department the game designers they might have some clue of what goes in sure cost wise yeah but if we're going to ask those questions we're going to do with seth davis on we're going to do it that's a seth davis question that's a george yeah like yeah like thats so and if i ask him that he's gonna be like i i can't talk about that and i have i don't have as much its detail on it i can give anyway so so to those that ask like why didn't you ask more about price the dude makes the game like he doesn't He's the designer. Yeah. He called the bean counters on our episode. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's like bean counters wanted to take this out. And it's like, well, I already added a rule for that.
00:44:10
Speaker
Yeah. ah Now, if anything, he's fighting the bean. He's fighting the financial people to keep stuff in. Right. ah However, i I will argue, and this is okay. In my own, you know, main job,
00:44:22
Speaker
Okay. There are tons of problems with healthcare care and and costs. I totally get it. Okay. But the bottom line is there are people, there are healthcare organizations that have gone under because they have not been financially solvent. Okay.
00:44:36
Speaker
So Stern is going to be the same way. Like they want their design team to be focusing on designing and they give them a a budget that they can work with and says, we have already ah analyzed this.
00:44:52
Speaker
ah are our production, we've already pro you know we've already projected our sales, and this is what we are going to do. And we have this amount. Now, they have also increased the bomb, and it does show, by the way.
00:45:08
Speaker
i i don't see what people are saying when they think they're cheapening out, because if you look at the presentation of the game now, it is more impressive. Yeah, are there ways that are...
00:45:21
Speaker
that have increased the presentation and also decreased costs? Absolutely. ah the being Being able to do ah LED bulbs. like LED bulbs are actually ah you know they're they're cheaper to manufacture than incandescent, and you can do them in a better integrated way.
00:45:41
Speaker
ah The LCD screen is actually cheaper than DMD. you know the dmd It's cheaper because it's more of a mass produced product.
00:45:51
Speaker
I don't know of anybody who's like, wow, I really wish they'd start making DMD games again because that shows they're spending more money on the games. Yeah. You know, it's this this is how it is, but you you are a hundred percent right.
00:46:05
Speaker
Those, ah the industry questions are questions we will ask Gomez. There, we are going to ask Seth Davis. And I actually did see Seth Davis by the way. And I talked to him about, Hey,
00:46:16
Speaker
our, your episode with us was great. We had so many people who liked hearing your, uh, your philosophy on behind the scenes of how to steer a pinball company. So I wouldn't be surprised if we're able to get him back on and talk a little bit more, probably between
Pro vs. Premium Versions Advice
00:46:34
Speaker
games. That seems like a more in, in between games interview.
00:46:37
Speaker
Definitely. Definitely. And I I'd be more than happy to have Seth is a great guy. Um, um and And granted, I am only taking, honestly, like there's five or six comments out of the hundreds that we receive. yeah It's amazing how much more comments we've been receiving over the last year. yeah Like I said, it just the the growth has been exponential and i've just I'm shocked at how many people actually want to listen to us. Well, okay. I'm more of relieved that we're doing something like Like it's Friday night and it's 1040. And this is what we're talking about.
00:47:09
Speaker
Or Saturday night. Excuse me. Yeah. so One of those nights it's those nights. It's been a long day. i'm Yeah.
00:47:16
Speaker
But um no. So overall, you're getting a Kong. I will get a call too. If someone will buy my Foo Fighters, that's who wants a Foo Fighters, Foo Fighters pro. Come on. yeah They're up. It's up for sale. Okay. What are you interested in? Are you interested in a premium or a pro? Cause I, I would argue, Josh, you could be satisfied with either.
00:47:36
Speaker
So if I have to choose choose between a pro or a premium, I really think the premium is the way to go. I just think, I'm a unique player in the fact that like I do like competitive play. i do like faster games and stuff like that. But i also like games I can explore or enjoy moments.
00:47:51
Speaker
And Keith Elwin seems to make moments in his games. And they don't seem to hang up the game. And I guess you could argue that with Godzilla in the building, right? like that's Obviously, when you get all three balls up there, it kind of sticks, right? You're going to have to wait for that building to come down.
00:48:07
Speaker
But um overall, i I just, I think the premiums way to the way to go on this. You played them both. Which one do you think is the way to go, Scott? ah You could be totally solid with getting a pro.
00:48:20
Speaker
ah If you're the type that I just want the biggest ah the biggest bargain for the bang, and the pro is the way to go. Because you're going to get all the ball paths.
00:48:32
Speaker
You're going to get all the the functionality of the game. You're going to essentially the same rule set. If you like having the extra stuff, I tend to like the extra stuff. I buy the toppers.
00:48:44
Speaker
um I don't buy every accessory for the game, but there are things that make it cool enough that I'm willing to spend that money for it. So the the premium is mine because I like the mechanical gorilla that moves around. And I don't know, is Kong a gorilla? I think he's a gorilla.
00:49:04
Speaker
Yeah. that's book so too But it moves around. It provides something that's the interactivity of the game. it's ah you know It's like Jurassic Park. People like having the yeah the the dinosaur that moves side to side and up and down. ah And you know you could argue the same thing with like a, okay, actually, this is a good ah good analogy.
00:49:27
Speaker
um Dungeons and Dragons. Okay. The pro is a great game. It actually has many of the things that you're going to look for. um The premium, the dragon goes up and down and side to side in the pro. just goes up and down, but it's still a really cool effect. Right. Yep.
00:49:46
Speaker
And so if you're willing to say, no, I'm willing to pay the extra money. If you're the type that's going to buy any sort mod for this, if you're going to buy something that's like $500, like ah an illuminated I don't know, an illuminated Kong hunter van or something, and you're going to put it in the game, just pay the money and get the premium because it actually provides a functional eye candy that is designed for the game.
Pinball Market Dynamics
00:50:12
Speaker
But you could, I, I am not going to, I'm not going to criticize anybody for going the pro because I think the pro is, is still fun. And quite honestly, I played more of the pro during the event because there was a longer line for the premium. And so I had a great time.
00:50:30
Speaker
So I really think if I do, like I said, I want the premium, but the thing I need to do ah sell my Foo Fighters Pro. Okay. So if anyone out there wants a Foo Fighters Pro, hit me up. I definitely want to trade it out. Home use only. It's great.
00:50:43
Speaker
It's great. Yeah. addition yeah Well, it was hilarious too. So like you and I have talked about this and you're like, well, if you really want Kong, I know someone that wants your shadow, but I'm like, it's, it's shadow. it comes to It's the hard part, right? like yeah you know We've talked about this before. You're like, well, they're still making Foo Fighters or they're kind of vault you know putting them in the vault or whatever it is.
00:51:00
Speaker
You can still get Fighter. it's still available. like Yeah, it's still available. There are more Foo Fighters on the market than there are Shadows. yeah And this is the supply and demand curve. And we've talked about it before that And you know, the, the people who are concerned about the the secondary market, that's kind of a victim of the success of being able to sell a lot of games, because if you have the potential of more games that will go out on the secondary market, then you're going to be competing with different people for pricing. If you are the only person who bought that one, if you have pinball circus and you're going to sell it,
00:51:39
Speaker
you're going to command a bigger price than Foo Fighters Pro. Yeah. And I would argue a Foo Fighters Pro is a much better game. yeah Exactly. Right. And so it's just, it is what it is.
00:51:53
Speaker
This is the reality of being in a in a business ah hobby that has a lot of ah a lot of supply out there. And you're right. We are coming down from COVID. Maybe some people are are unloading some extra games, but it's still in the grand scheme of things, taking, I'm making a thousand, maybe even $2,000 hit. If you've had it for a long time, I guess I would still say that's, that that's still entertainment value there.
Innovations in Pinball Coding
00:52:23
Speaker
If you go out to a bar, ah a typical person is going to spend $50 at a bar. yeah In a night. And so if you have a if you have a for a year and you've been able to get 20 uses out of it for a night, you've actually paid for it and had a better, ah better environment to hear everything than you would have by going to a bar.
00:52:44
Speaker
Well, it's funny too because like so at my house, my games are kind of on a totem pole, right? Yeah. maybe this is like everyone else's and everyone looks at the bottom like what's going out for the next thing to come in, right? Yeah. And so Foo's on the bottom, at least the like out of all the games I have besides.
00:52:59
Speaker
It's funny because my kids are like, well, do we have to get rid of Foo Fighters? Why don't we get rid of the orange one? I'm like, well, that one's Scott's so we can't sell that one. Yeah, you can sell the Genie. Go ahead. Genie. And then ah I have a Riviera in the corner, which is 1971. It's an EM.
00:53:11
Speaker
it's an um And I told the kids like, that's not going to work. Like we could sell it but it's not, we don't get King Kong at that point either. Yeah. Don't sell your car, dad, sell your bicycle and buy a new car.
00:53:22
Speaker
Exactly. You know what? And if everyone could do that, they would, right? It's going work yet. But, ah but no, that's kind of the situation. So yeah, if you want a Foo Fighters Pro 1300 plays, wonderful game. Like I said, it's, it really is a great playing game and the code is amazing. Ray Raymond Davidson is amazing at code. Like he he's, I'm calling it now. Raymond is on track to be a Lyman sheets level coder because he does think on that next level, he knows how to make a game fun for me. I'm not a tournament player.
00:53:54
Speaker
But he also makes, he knows how to make a game rewarding for the tournament players. So if you know the rules and you know what you're going to do you're going to score higher and significantly higher than your average, ah you know, chimp flipper hacker.
00:54:11
Speaker
I think, I think the problem with code two is you got to find a good balance versus feeling rewarded. Right. Yeah. You don't want wood chopping. You don't want wood chopping. You need some sort of way of blowing up the game.
00:54:23
Speaker
And you also need to be able to find ways that doesn't lock you into one path. Yeah. I, that is the magic. And I would,
00:54:35
Speaker
I would say that Raymond is certainly well on his way to being an elite coder. You know, one thing that Elwin does that I'm surprised, i don't think anyone else has adopted this. I mean, I'm just wrong.
00:54:47
Speaker
But Elwin has something going on in the background of all his games. With Iron Maiden, it's doing like the the the power triangles. yeah um Jaws, it's it's the reeling in the shark. yeah it's It's the bounty hunts.
00:55:00
Speaker
With Godzilla, it's it's doing the power-ups. I just, I think that's a great way to take a wood chopping element and stick it in the background so you're still doing it without feeling like I am forced to do this. It just happens naturally, right?
00:55:16
Speaker
And I wish more people would integrate that with their games. If you look at most successful long-term shows, yeah they have an A plot and a B plot.
00:55:28
Speaker
They actually do. So it once one if you haven't ever thought about it like that, Once I tell you this, you can't unsee it. because they will have parallel plots going, but one of them, you know, an hour show is like 42 minutes.
00:55:44
Speaker
So one story will take about 30 minutes and the other story is like 12 minutes. And, but it's, it, it is spliced in there.
00:55:55
Speaker
And so sometimes the A, B, A story and the B story also have some interactivity, but for the most part, they're kind of parallel stories.
Misconceptions and Episode Wrap-Up
00:56:03
Speaker
And so when coding is able to have an A goal and a B goal, then absolutely you're you're going to be, and yes, I did say B goal on that, but yes. um So if you can have two things you're working for simultaneously, that's where the magic happens.
00:56:21
Speaker
Well, I'm going to wrap this up, Scott. I want to, one thing that I have forgot to mention that we were both going to talk about this episode. We'll just do it really quickly. We want to congratulate Colin McAlpine.
00:56:35
Speaker
So apparently this man worked on portal. Yep. He is now worked on dune. I hear he did some work on King Kong.
00:56:47
Speaker
Really? and And then I hear he's he might be associated with a Jersey Jack game coming out and maybe even an American game. I hear that man is everywhere when it comes to creating games for pinball companies. The problem with Colin is he is genuinely one of the nicest people that you've ever met.
00:57:05
Speaker
And he is a high high level player and also is super committed to his family and has everything balanced right. and i I want to be, the the world would be better with more Collins in there.
00:57:19
Speaker
I just want to razzle bit. So there was some misconceptions, some misinformation that Colin had worked on doing. Colin is not working on doing Colin worked on portal for multimorphic. He is not associated with barrels of fun at this, but he may want to play it.
00:57:33
Speaker
Maybe, maybe he does want to go in and play. Maybe that's where the misconception may he went to media day and they just, I don't know. But yeah, he, he, he just wanted us to let everyone know he is not associated with Dune.
00:57:44
Speaker
he's He's also starting his own pinball company. Yes. And he is looking for employees. So go ahead and hit him up. Collins Pinballs. but Love the name of the company. exactly. It's going to sell billions. Call balls.
00:57:57
Speaker
Yeah. Call balls. That man has balls of steel. Balls of steel. Yeah. All righty. Anything else before we wrap this up, Scott? You know, I'm just, ah if you didn't see my ah picture, I did get home a Sparky.
00:58:10
Speaker
So old school Sparky, Dirty Donnie. yeahp So that's ah that's fun. It's going over into my ah pinball ah menagerie. So, uh, great, uh, wrapping things up. Great stuff on silver ball swag. Again, check it out. We have new stuff and, uh, thanks again for listening. Uh, we'll see you guys soon.
00:58:31
Speaker
Yeah. If you want to get ahold of us, we are loser kid pinball podcast at gmail.com. We are on all the socials at loser kid pinball is how you find us. ah Like Scott alluded to, silverballswag.com slash loserkid.
00:58:43
Speaker
Got playing great stuff there. And our friends at Flippin' Out Pinball. If you want that new King Kong, Dune, or pretty much any other game you can think or fathom of, give Zach and Nicole many a call or text or email them.
00:58:56
Speaker
They are amazing at responding and customer service. Give us our last word, Scott. You know, I want to know what our audience is buying. If they're buying a pro or a premium Kong, or if you're going to get the LE, tell us what you like about the LE.
00:59:11
Speaker
Or if you're getting a Dune. Yeah. Okay. you're Sure. but We were talking about Kong yeah recently. So we will definitely do a follow-up episode on Dune when we have a chance to play it. I didn't get my hands on it for this weekend. Yep. True.
00:59:25
Speaker
All righty.
00:59:30
Speaker
you