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Ep 165: Dune Pinball with David Van Es and Brian Savage | Barrels of Fun!
1.4k Plays16 days ago
David Van Es and Brian Savage join us to talk about Barrels of Fun and their newest release, Dune!
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Transcript
Introduction & New Pinball Game
00:00:07
Speaker
It's been a crazy day. We're on episode 165. Thanks for tuning in to Loser Kid Pinball Podcast. I am Josh Roop. With me, my co-captain. Scott Larson. And Scott.
00:00:18
Speaker
Another game revealed. Another game. it's it's ah It's a log jam. It's a trough jam. But absolutely, this is great. ah It's actually embarrassing to have so many great titles to look after and to order.
00:00:30
Speaker
So if you're going to do it, contact Zach and Nicole at Flippin' Out Pinball. ah They are great. And we did talk to Zach today, and he said his he's been sitting at his desk and filling all these orders. So a lot of these things are flooding in.
00:00:43
Speaker
And the great thing about it is there are a lot of great options right now. So go ahead and contact Zach and Nicola flipping out pinball and we let's get to it. Let's, let's talk about the pinball machine for the day too. And so we are with barrels of fun, barrels of fun, Josh, go ahead and take
First Impressions of Barrels of Fun
00:01:02
Speaker
it away.
00:01:02
Speaker
So if you are looking for a do and do hit up flipping out, they do sell barrels of fun. ah I met this company October, 2023 at pinball expo. I remember them just revealing this game and I'm like, what the heck is this?
00:01:16
Speaker
It's another pinball company. And I'm like, I better go check this out. And so I stand in line and I get my hands on this game. And the first thing I can tell it is different. It is unique. It's not like the it's it's like the other product in the fact that like it feels familiar, but it's doing new stuff and it felt quality between between my hands.
00:01:36
Speaker
And the whole weekend I'm there, I never saw a play field go up once. So I know that they were doing something right. And I think they've shocked and awed the community with their product.
Developing the Dune Pinball Game
00:01:46
Speaker
And now they've come out with their second game, Dune. And I'm just so excited to to experience this with you guys.
00:01:52
Speaker
Thank you, David Van Ness and Brian Savage for coming on and joining us on this episode. Well, thanks for having us. Pleasure to be here. So how the heck you're like, okay, we did labyrinth. What should we do next? Let's go as epic as we can.
00:02:05
Speaker
We're going with like the biggest franchise right now, like Dune. is How did that conversation even come about? Well, again, like, uh, we want to make sure we're making something very different to what we've done in the past.
00:02:19
Speaker
Uh, something that we like to do is challenge ourselves. And again, We do talk amongst ourselves as a team about what licenses that we're excited about. I work with licenses all the time.
00:02:31
Speaker
ah You find out what they want to do or what it's going to be available over the next five years. And we just kind of figure out what do we, where do we think the market's going to be? I mean, you're talking about a three, you know, two to three year bet on what we think is going to be good or not
Acquiring the Dune License
00:02:49
Speaker
down the road. I mean,
00:02:50
Speaker
We worked with Legendary Entertainment. Basically, part two was not even being shot. Yeah, when you go to get a license, you're probably a minimum of two years out you know from when you're get bail from them when the machine would be delivered.
00:03:05
Speaker
And so we were able to go to them, and before we even had Labyrinth, And basically because David's background in film and the design aesthetic that we have with doing what the IP needs, not look at a layout and stick the IP on it, but they looked at
Dune's Influence in Sci-Fi
00:03:21
Speaker
our deck and the presentation and said, wow, we really think that you guys can represent our multi- billionll our billion dollar brand um as well or better than anybody else out there. And so they we got signed by them. so there There wasn't even a Dune 2.
00:03:37
Speaker
There certainly wasn't a TV show, but yeah along the way, and now there's going to be a Dune 3. So this is a franchise that has been in the minds of science fiction people for a long time, written in the 60s. And we know that other major science fiction things were kind of ripped off from this story. Inspired. Oh, inspired. I'm sorry, not ripped off. Creatively borrowed. Creatively borrowed. Yeah, creatively.
00:04:02
Speaker
Look, this really is what, you know, it's kind of the Lord of the Rings for science fiction nerds. And what a better way to try and tell a story under glass is to go with that. And again, when everyone, I mean, I have distributors today, like, oh, we thought it was gone. We did,
00:04:20
Speaker
be, you the older film. And it's just like, why would we want to do that? Like we want to get the biggest and baddest world that has such a wide audience as we possibly can.
00:04:32
Speaker
Um, but at the same time, like when we move on from there, well, we're not moving on. We've already developing the next titles. is we don't want you to guys to think, oh, they're just going to do, you know, this type of product.
00:04:44
Speaker
It's going to be something even more radically different than that. We don't want to be pigeonholed in doing one certain
Choosing Modern Titles
00:04:50
Speaker
type of thing. But this is a very modern, very relevant title today. know, whereas a lot of things people talk about are things they remember from their childhood or their teens in the 80s or 90s or whatever. I'm little older than that.
00:05:02
Speaker
But we wanted to do something that was modern and very relevant to the media today. And so this was the perfect thing. So i I have two questions. One. So the, the new Dune movie, the first one had already come out. Correct. When you started looking at this.
00:05:19
Speaker
Okay. So that's correct. ah Second, when you're dealing with new licenses, you're, it is a lot more challenging than dealing with older licenses. And that's one reason why you see some other other manufacturers trending to go toward like an older IP or something that has less restrictions on what they can do.
00:05:41
Speaker
and So, yeah. So tell me about this, because this is obviously a huge project that's going to have a lot of tentacles going in.
Complexity of Licensing
00:05:50
Speaker
They are licensing is getting much more difficult just in general.
00:05:55
Speaker
um Even the oldest stuff like it used to be, you could get the oldest stuff, but that's not the case anymore because every license comes with additional third party licenses. So no matter if you go back to you got it, you're going to right now will end up dealing with an s estate of some sort. The music rights will be in a different spot.
00:06:13
Speaker
It's one of those things like there's nothing. There's nothing easy about licensing. and And they may have, for the older stuff, there may be some of the actors that were in the license and a lot of the other actors were not.
00:06:28
Speaker
And so you could have whole lots of hands holding their hand out wanting to be paid for a particular film or movie or TV show or whatever that may or may not have really been that popular.
00:06:42
Speaker
Well, and also a lot of those licenses have nothing to do with legendary entertainment at all. yeah But a lot of these old IPs don't even have contracts that are valid anymore.
00:06:53
Speaker
So a lot of times, you actually they have to write brand new contracts for them because you want X, Y, and Z with it. So I wish there was a silver bullet for like, yeah, if you just stick with this, that's how easy it's going to be.
00:07:06
Speaker
um But I mean, every license I dealt with, there's no
Partnership with Legendary Entertainment
00:07:09
Speaker
one single license. Yeah, the real story is different. You main license and then you have third parties that come out of all works. Like when you're doing a licensing deal, you are doing multiples, period.
00:07:20
Speaker
Now, with the Legendary, they've been a fantastic partner with us because they have we have access to both films. ah We have access to pretty much anything we want to pull into it.
00:07:31
Speaker
But they have even gone out and got extra stuff for us that at first we didn't think were going to be able to use because they saw the modes that were in the machine. And they said, oh, this has to be in there. And so they went got permission from the people that needed to be in that mode.
00:07:46
Speaker
Well, and there is a ton of people in this cast, like Timothy Chalamet, Zendaya, Oscar Isaac, Rebecca Ferguson, Jason Momoa, Stellan Skarsgård.
00:07:58
Speaker
Yeah, it's just it's insane that like, and it's funny. so So what you're telling me is like you originally were kind of, you didn't have as many assets. And then like it's because of what you were showing to the licensor, you're like, they're like, no, no, we need to make this right. We need to make this even better.
00:08:14
Speaker
they They have been absolutely fantastic. like I mean, everything has its you know um situation that you've got to work with. Any type of creative outlet that you're doing, you've got to deal with the situation, what the the moment is.
00:08:29
Speaker
um But yeah they again, they're a brand about fandom. And when they see what we're doing here, because we are stewards of their IP, we're trying to make sure we represent them correctly. And we want to make sure the fans love this.
00:08:43
Speaker
What we're trying to do is make sure this is fan appropriate, but we also want to get them into pinball. And if we can make this pinball appropriate, then we get that cross section of growing the hobby, the industry that we love with really more passionate people.
00:09:00
Speaker
Yeah, because every what you want is every new IP that comes into the pinball industry to bring more people in because then there's more customers for everybody. But when you have stuff that's remaking older machines, it's just still meaning it's the same people in the hobby. You're not growing the hobby at all.
00:09:16
Speaker
But that's what's important with a and franchise. It's as big as this is. But again, like we all got into pinball. It wasn't just like we love pinball. All of us can. you know, agree that we love pinball, but it's not just pinball.
00:09:28
Speaker
It's the relationships like you mean me and have pinball when a new release game would come out. We would call up our friends. Even if we didn't like it, we'd always want to analyze it and talk together. And when you go to tournaments, not just about the competitive side of it is sitting back having drinks with the other competitors.
00:09:45
Speaker
Like it's like pinball is so unique with its community. it's not just about the game it's the people and
Pinball as a Social Experience
00:09:52
Speaker
the friendships that you're forming around this which is very unique it's almost like the pinball machine has become the kind of the modern water fountain where everybody will come around and talk about we love this ip do you remember when this happened you know and like a lot of shows nowadays you don't even have that experience anymore and i feel like When you go to a tournament and you see a game that is X, like Labyrinth, I haven't thought about that movie forever. And then you go over and and you see little moments like, oh, wow, I remember that.
00:10:22
Speaker
Oh, it does this and it does that. And it takes you right back to that childhood. that's the nastic connection. With the collector people, it's really that these devices are an excuse for us to all go somewhere and spend the weekend together.
00:10:36
Speaker
And had the camaraderie together because at the end of the day, it's all about the people that involved in the hobby. It's not about the machines because without the people, it's really
Integrating Movie Moments into Gameplay
00:10:45
Speaker
not much fun. no
00:10:48
Speaker
So lead me through the Dune is a okay. I know that the movie from the eighties was so complex that a lot of people didn't even understand it Okay.
00:10:59
Speaker
And they, they, they even a funny story. They even printed out like a, a sheet of paper to hand people as they were going to the movie to explain what they were watching because it was so confusing. Now I know they've done a much better job with the,
00:11:14
Speaker
latest movies, but how do you distill that down into a pinball machine? So take me into your thoughts on to what was going to make it, make the cut for the pinball machine versus what was not easily integrated into a pinball machine.
00:11:32
Speaker
um I mean, what it really comes down to again is what was the, the communion experience of watching the film together? Like what was the experiences that you guys or Brian, what did you guys take away from watching this film?
00:11:49
Speaker
And if we can find, and and we do this, this is part of a blue sky. When we're talking about any IP from music bands to original ideas to movies and TV shows is write down Everyone go away, write down 10 things that you remember from it. I don't want you to rewatch it, listen to it. I don't want you to deep dive and do research. I want you to go away and just write down 10 things that automatically come to your head that when you think of X. And then what happens is we'll let that go away for a couple of days and then we'll come back next week.
00:12:24
Speaker
And you'll find out of those 10 things between four and three, seven of those things will be identical between everyone. And that's honestly where we start the development.
00:12:35
Speaker
That's because if it's something that's stuck with all those people, then there's a good chance to stick stuck with the majority of the fandom. And that's where you just build on top of that. And then obviously we go for, you know, we, we pitch it to the licensor.
00:12:49
Speaker
And again, this is not just pointed out legendary. This is just how we approach the the whole thing, the whole thing, period. and then we just build on top of that. So that really is the process. I know it kind of like you asking very specific about this IP, but it's not just this IP. It's just how we approach Pinball in general.
00:13:06
Speaker
for but But for something like this, the next step is after we have what the common thought theme desires, remembrance for the machines or what we're trying to create, then we come up with a list of 10 to 20 different moments. What are the moments that would translate into a pinball machine and then you start thinking about or least i do because i'm the crazy met guys like can we do this no can we do that no okay whatever but then we come up with like different mechanisms that may work for all these moments and then you start looking at that and you go all right this one this one this one this one and we'll see what we do about that one and then you start the design process the layout well now if i have these things i want to put in there now they have to physically fit in the machine and work together so
00:13:54
Speaker
You have the experiences, then the mechanisms to make the pinball moments, then the design of the actual table. And then there's just stupid ideas like, uh, that's mostly me. the Yeah. The pain box. So if you're familiar with the, uh, the universe, um, there's a pain box that Paul has to put his hand in. Well, there's multiple people, but it's, it's a test of you put your hand in there.
00:14:16
Speaker
It's excruciating pain. And if you can survive it you get to continue on with your life. If you don't, you die. So it was like, well, why don't we, you know, you got to put your hand in something. Well, we can't ask people to put their hand in pinball machine.
00:14:30
Speaker
So what can we do? And I'm not a huge fan of action buttons, but it was one of those things of, well, and this is kind of more bright. It's like, well, why don't we make them have to put their hand on the action button and they have to play the game with one hand.
00:14:45
Speaker
And if you don't make the shot, because it's literally one shot on the play field, which is the left ramp. If you don't make that shot or drain out, you're dead. You die. And that's it. and Which is brilliant.
00:14:57
Speaker
It's brilliant. I saw that in the trailer and that is awesome. I think I'll just rest my belly on the button and just use it. Guess what? Try it. Try it. You guess what's going to happen? my Touch both flippers at the same time and you die. Oh, wow.
00:15:14
Speaker
One flipper at a time. But the whole thing, what was interesting is it is a lot of fun. Um, but it was the audience, the media people we had here today, they were very mixed on it. Some people were just like, that's just stupid.
00:15:29
Speaker
And then the other people that just absolutely had fun with it. So, and then it's a balancing thing because where that is, I debate, you know, we could have just done it something on the LCD and that was it, but no, we had to go and put a physical 3d, you know, physical sculpt,
00:15:42
Speaker
of the paint box that out of the apron, where the ball goes underneath it and locks away. And that's where the ball will be held and you'll go through your trial. And if you fail, then it will just come out and drain out through the in lane, through the out lane.
00:15:55
Speaker
Um, but that's not just the only place you have it. You, we also have a place where, ah you got to hit the snorkel. It's the snorkel ball safe. So it's like radical. So the ball will get caught on the ramp with a pin.
00:16:08
Speaker
It will flick it back up the wire form, down another wire form into where the pain box is. And it will sit there until if you accidentally start draining out the left out lane, it will shoot the other ball
Collaborative Design Process
00:16:20
Speaker
out, kick that one back in, and then drain the other one out. So you can keep on playing.
00:16:26
Speaker
Some of the stuff in here is pretty unique and and awesome too, just looking at this play field. I got to ask though. Did you guys ever design pinball before this? Because when I played Labyrinth, I just thought, man, this feels like ah seasoned pinball person has made this play field.
00:16:43
Speaker
And looking at Dune, it looks just as good, if not better, than what you guys did it with Labyrinth. Well, I know I made apparently the worst outlaying design in history. No, no. The most brutal. The most brutal, to use the quote.
00:16:56
Speaker
Look, and it the way I approach this and I approach it, I mean, I led the design on this, but Travis Mosman is the mechanical engineer behind it. And Paul Soltz is also the mechanical engineer behind William um But again, it is really will William is the worm's name.
00:17:16
Speaker
Oh, okay. And does anyone know? Okay. Trivia moment. Why is it called William?
00:17:22
Speaker
Labyrinth nerds, come on. bill Billy was taken. No. So the worm in Labyrinth, his actual real name is William. So that's why we called him William. So if anyone asks, why you talking about William?
00:17:36
Speaker
They would think it's a reference to Labyrinth. So. That's interesting. So going back to the design, it really is a kind of a group effort.
00:17:48
Speaker
But at the end of the day, i want to make sure we're telling the story under that glass. And maybe that comes from my experience helping in film and TV.
00:17:59
Speaker
But again, it's i we want to hire the best people in their fields to help make the best world under glass. That's really how we approach it. And does it feel good when you shoot it?
00:18:11
Speaker
You know, does it create moments? what something think was really interesting today and two people independently of each other may have talked before they said something to me and they came in here weren't that excited about doing and it's like i don't know what it is but this feels like a cinematic pinball machine and i'm like what do you mean cinematic they said but like our blood pressure is going up when we're battling the harvester like it's intense Um, so it's, again, i know we'll tell really short stories into long epic sagas.
00:18:46
Speaker
Um, but I mean, we just love what we do. And it's just like, when I can get people to emotionally react to a game, like we're doing our job here. Like it's coming in every day, seeing all these people, but all this work into this one game, it is the most rewarding thing I've ever done in my life.
00:19:06
Speaker
And it's definitely showing it it bleeds through the product into the home as well. Like I haven't met a person yet that's just hated their labyrinth and said, you know what? I just need to get rid of this thing. Everyone that gets a labyrinth has loved it.
00:19:18
Speaker
And I think you guys have created an excitement because you're excited about pinball, right? Like it just, the product is doing so well. We, ah first off, I gotta ask, I know like sandworm, it's kind of a big central thing, but to create a sandworm that not only captures the ball you're like okay cool you're like cool and all of a sudden it starts eating the ball and you're like oh wow what the heck is this and then it starts raising up out of the play field a full other just who okay who's evil genius was that and it's a bash toy it's a bash toy who's evil genius was that i've got to know this
00:19:55
Speaker
Look, it's the mechanical engineers that made it happen. Like I could draw the most, like we all can i can't draw. We can all come up with the most ridiculous things. I mean, even at the point at the start of this project, when I said, this is what it needs. Like, again, it'd be a little drawing. going to do this. We're going to do that. I mean, you know, there's all these things we're going to do with the LCD, whatever not.
00:20:14
Speaker
And then it's like, okay guys, this is what like we want to do. And then like Travis and Paul will go away. All right. Yeah, we can do that. And I was literally a week after they come back. like, David, this is going to cost probably five to $600, just this toy alone.
00:20:31
Speaker
That's like, why do this? And I'm like, well, first of all, we haven't built it yet. So how do we know actually costs that? Well, but I'm just, we're looking at it with, we're putting it into SOLIDWORKS and SOLIDWORKS has a way to, you know, calculate what it potentially is going to cost.
00:20:44
Speaker
And I'm like, yeah, but like, it'd be really cool if we did it. You know, but they were just like, and you know, mean, they're doing their job. They're like, but David, this is like $500. five hundred dollars Like that's not, that's not really viable for a game. It's like, well, but if we built the prototype, like I didn't care what the prototype costs, but if we have the physical part, then we can, then maybe we can figure out how we can shrink it down or how we can simplify How can we turn that in?
00:21:08
Speaker
And you know, the mech, doesn't cost $500 and we found a way to make it work. um So it's just like, wouldn't it be nice? Again, it goes back to our blue sky concept.
00:21:20
Speaker
Like when you are coming up with something, I don't want you to have the limitations of price. I want you to come up with something really, really cool. Put it on the wall, but it just put it somewhere. it may it may not be ready for this game.
00:21:33
Speaker
It may be game four, three, two. I mean, I can already tell you there's a mech that, you know, we have, that was designed for nothing. And it's going to a completely different game because someone else saw that design or idea, took it and then basically re not re-engineered, but just added more to it and changed it a little bit more.
00:21:53
Speaker
So like, I really try to allow people to have the freedom to think outside the box. And then obviously when we get into the role business side of it, where Brian's like, okay, this is, this is where we're pushing this down into, you know, but like, again, like, like film production,
00:22:09
Speaker
it's What's great about that, you have when you start writing a script, you're well-to-hoisted. You've got unlimited budget, everything else. and Then all of a sudden, it's a really good idea. and Then you take it to someone's. This is really good. We make a great film, but we have to raise the money.
00:22:22
Speaker
All right, well, we start cutting scenes. We start cutting this. This is the essence of what's going to be great. and Then like you finally get the money for it, and you go into production and you go into pre-production. it's like, well, now we're going to cut some more, but what's the call? You keep whittle it down until you get it down to, okay, now we're ready to take it to shoot.
00:22:39
Speaker
And then you go into production, which is kind of development for us. And it's like the world's on fire. You go to shoot it and it's not just about, we got to shoot this film on script, but now we're dealing with the day to day basis of making it in reality. So then you're just fighting the different, you know, um,
00:22:57
Speaker
prototypes and vendors and you're trying to make sure you keep that vision all aligned into that final product. And then you get into the post-production side of it when it's almost ready to go. and then you get to take this big idea that you had, you had to not compromise, you had to make it worth within the constraints of creating this story, this narrative that you want to do this product.
00:23:19
Speaker
You're willing it down, willing down to where it's viable. And then you get what the the the essence of what this product is. And then in post, we get to retell that story with code and editing mixing that and making it more important, more fleshed out what their original concept
Technical Challenges in Dune Pinball
00:23:35
Speaker
is. And that's kind of how you come up with the final product that goes out to the customer. I like to bring it back to the worm.
00:23:41
Speaker
ah There was a conversation early on that we had because, you know, the, the, as a pinball player, I want the worm to eat the ball, but wait a minute, isn't it being eaten by the worm bad or is it good? Unless getting rid of the soldiers. Unless you're getting rid of the soldiers. Is it a soldier that's being eaten? Is it, know,
00:24:00
Speaker
who's being eaten here, you know, from the storytelling yeah standpoint. And then we also knew that it was important for you to be able to ride the worm because that is a big part of the film. That's the moment. And then you, so you look at those components of it but then you go back to the mechanical end of it.
00:24:16
Speaker
So not only does that have a mechanism, but there's also a mold, a molding of a toy, you know, that has to be created that's going to, A, fit on there, and B, be durable enough and C, look like a worm.
00:24:31
Speaker
Okay? So those are more constraints you work with of all the pieces, you know, in these games. This is not just a molded item that goes on a sling, ah okay, that just sits there and looks pretty.
00:24:44
Speaker
This is actually toys that you're putting in a machine that do something. The harvester in this machine, you know, blows up and the front panel flops back and the explosion happens on the screen to give the player, there's a moment, because how many times you see something blow up, you know, in a pinball machine? Well, you don't want to see it blow up in pinball machine, right? Am i right?
00:25:03
Speaker
Okay. So, but but that was kind of a very, step by step by step engineering situation because we needed to do this, but we only got this much space. So how are we going to drive that and what action should it really have or not have?
00:25:18
Speaker
And where do you put the levers and blah blah, blah, blah, blah. You could go on all day about this stuff. But there are many, many minutiae decisions that had to be made. But keeping in mind the whole time, the whole purpose of the machine is to entertain the customer and to tell the story for the IP that you're demonstrating in the machine. We're putting on a show and there's compromises that need to be made, but can we make this suspension of disbelief happen enough within those four minutes that we have someone playing the game?
00:25:49
Speaker
Because this isn't this isn't a world under glass, this is a planet under glass.
00:25:56
Speaker
And it really is. Like, it's it's insane to see how much you guys have put in this. I mean, you talk about the worm, but then, like you said, you have the harvester, you have the pain box, you've got the the mask in the back, you've got that cool ball lock with the spinner.
00:26:09
Speaker
does that Does that lead to somewhere behind the spinner, or does that just kind of come back at you? So we can show you later on. But essentially, like with Labyrinth, we you put in the drop target and a spinner behind it. so like And that was a very, very fun thing to do. And, I mean, even in Labyrinth,
00:26:25
Speaker
we when We had Phil come in, like he was playing the game and then he goes, man, you're just like, this game is really good, but it's really missing a spinner. I'm like, i mean, we were literally probably two months out from production.
00:26:37
Speaker
And i was like, I just reached over to the shelf of prototype parts and i put out the spinners, like, well, put it where you want it. And he goes, what do you mean? Like, this is locked. I'm like, but if you're telling me the only thing missing to make this game amazing is a spinner, where do you want to put it?
00:26:50
Speaker
And we literally would just screw it into the play field in one spot, shoot it. That's not good. And then it literally ended up exactly where it is in the game and it went with the game. So we knew that was a very fun mechanic.
00:27:01
Speaker
And coming into the Dune universe, the cinematic universe, It was like, there's a lot of, you know, there's big battles, but there's also intense personal fights.
00:27:12
Speaker
So it's like, well, if we could trap a ball behind the fork, there was always a very good satisfaction of flashing hitting a spinner and you can create, uh, hit points on that. And we can have the shield going off around it. That'd be awesome.
00:27:26
Speaker
But it's like, but how can we level that up? Well, We need to put a magnet in between. So like to now that just explodes out to now when you hit it, the ball is going to go up, hit the spinner, and then come back and get flung into the into the slings on either side.
00:27:43
Speaker
So now you get that whole moment in the film when yeah they're fighting the shield and it's going zh-zh-zh-zh. Now we've got the action. that moment's satisfaction of that you feel like you're actually in a battle or training you know we you know with gurney and stuff like that. So there's just an evolution of what do we think was fun? What was the reaction from our family that have labyrinths?
00:28:06
Speaker
How are they giving us feedback what they enjoyed and how can we absolutely intensify that because this is more this is all about experiences and how can we get get this experience across to the people buying the game oh you're just playing the game in their arcade i do have to i do have to ask i've noticed this about barrel fun games that i haven't noticed with any other company the back panel in the very back it's like i was just about to talk about that yeah what made you guys decide to do that? And it's, it's so eye catching and like, it just makes sense.
00:28:41
Speaker
hu I'll take it. Okay. So, When we were first doing Labyrinth, one of the things that David really wanted was the nippers running around with their sticks or whatever they do, jump up and down and sticking them up in the air, soldiers sticking stuff up in there going, hey. It's like, well, we need a mechanism in the back of the box. And I looked at that and looked at that from a molding and a toy standpoint because that's my background.
00:29:06
Speaker
And I kept going, well, you know.
00:29:11
Speaker
it'd probably be cheaper and a lot more versatile. Why don't we just put a monitor back there? And then we can have them poking up into the other monitor so that you have items that go between the monitors. And that's been carried into this machine too.
00:29:24
Speaker
When you earn spice or water of life, you actually see it flow from the bottom of the monitor up into the containers on the top monitor. You also see ah soldiers fall from the...
00:29:38
Speaker
top monitor through the bottom monitor, you know, and there's just different things that we can do to create more wow moments than just have a display, you know, that's just telling you stuff in a machine.
Using Technology in Pinball
00:29:50
Speaker
It needs to interact with the player and to interact with the player, it should be down where the player can see it. And so that's where it started from was the whole idea of, well, what if they're,
00:30:01
Speaker
jumping up and down and poking stuff between the two monitors. Wouldn't that be kind of cool? Nobody's ever done that. So, and that was a struggle finding the monitors that matched. That was a whole other game. But anyway. Well, and that's, you know, again, with the...
00:30:14
Speaker
with the LCD back there is like, how do we extend the environment beyond that? So like, we got to make sure it's a natural extension of what we're doing. And like, I mean, I know everyone says that's a signature of what we do.
00:30:28
Speaker
um But I'm telling you now, if it doesn't belong there, we won't put it in there. It's just, is there a way that we can help tell what we're trying to tell on this play field story-wise that makes sense and also within our budget and stuff like that of what we can expand on.
00:30:46
Speaker
But the LCD really there is just, it's a storytelling tool. I mean, it helps that we, you I have a lot of connections and friends that can help me expand that story on that screen.
00:30:57
Speaker
um But really just like, you just treat it as another toy. That's really what it comes down It's just another toy that we get to, you know, get creative with. and And on this machine, it's actually extending you into the desert.
00:31:10
Speaker
Like if you look at the siege or the rocks on the right-hand side and you look at the monitor behind it, you see that those the siege continues into the desert there. And the same thing with the harvester when it blows up, the explosion, not only does it have red lights and things behind the toy, but you see the explosion you is drawn out on the screen. So it's really just like David said, extending the universe further back than the machine could do it on its own.
00:31:36
Speaker
Now tell me about your philosophy because other manufacturers have gone with multiple tiers, but you guys have, it seems like your selling point is saying, look, you get the complete game, all upgrades.
Single Version Strategy
00:31:51
Speaker
Yeah. Well, it's kind of like this, you know, it's like, uh, One ring to rule them all. um Okay. Okay. So if I'm a How many times have you heard when other manufacturers come out with a machine? Well, I like the art on this one, but I want the LE, but the premium has prettier art. Well, I don't um really like that.
00:32:10
Speaker
So why why, as a collector and a fan... We want the best version that we can get. And why wouldn't everybody want the best version?
00:32:21
Speaker
and And if you've seen what we've been doing lately, it's not only the best version, but it's the best value. You so like in this machine, we've added the Thunder Down Under, you know, thanks to Mr. Australia here.
00:32:32
Speaker
um You know, the... ah shaker motor inside, we've added the infinity glass and our new a horizon lighting system or HAL system that now shines, it is integrated into the cabinet and it's shining light down on the play field, not in your eyes, and it's actually easily replaceable someday if something should go wrong with it.
00:32:54
Speaker
It's not a big deal to change it out, but it just changes the whole environment because on this machine, one of the things about the Dune movie is it goes from night to day, night to day, night to day.
00:33:04
Speaker
And so this needed to be, again, represented in the story. And this new lighting system allows us to do that, um to show The story, again, telling the story, because there's some of the modes in here, you have to be in day and some um you have to be in night.
00:33:20
Speaker
And I'll skip ahead a little bit later on. It will ship with a topper. The topper you're seeing in the pictures is just a flat plastic. Basically, here you go. Here's something to be a placeholder. here But there will be an animated toper later and the topper the toppers will work with the night and day. You will see the color change in lights in those items. So it it is in with the game as well.
00:33:43
Speaker
Well, and I applaud you for that, too, because if you really think about because I heard some people, because this 11.6, right, for this game? Yes. There's 11.2. um So some people are like, well, this is a lot to get into. But if you think about it, you're giving an LE product, a true 1,000-count LE product with all the upgrades, the shaker motor, the glass, all the bells and whistles.
00:34:07
Speaker
For that price, that's got to be the cheapest LE in the game. Well, and we didn't even talk about we have a amplified system in the game system now as well, because again, if we go into do the cinematic universe, it has to sound epic.
00:34:24
Speaker
So, and these are things that you, when you look at the market and you see what the hobbyists are adding onto their games, because they want to, why should they have to spend $600 to get a lighting system that they have to pull out of their game if they have to go and fix their game?
00:34:42
Speaker
Like there are just things that we feel should be just standard period. Now we did have an internal conversation of like Labyrinth is one of the least games we've seen modded on the market.
00:34:54
Speaker
And half the reason why we love collecting pinball machines is that we get to modify it to make it our own game. And I kind of wonder, like we're putting all this stuff in it. Are we alienating? Are we taking away? Are we taking away from a bit of the hobby where they like to customize stuff? I'm okay with buying it done.
00:35:13
Speaker
But at the end of the day, we can't help ourselves. so It's like, well, but we can put that in there. Well, we we were thinking about just selling the whole machine as a kit. Would you interested in that? Like Ikea? Yeah, that'd be good. Yeah, like Ikea. with its yeah It's a big book of instructions, let me tell you.
00:35:29
Speaker
But no, we just want, we we want everyone to have the best version of the game that we're going to make. Now, i I agree with you on that. The only draw, I guess the counter argument though, is there's a bigger barrier for someone who wants to route this on location.
00:35:48
Speaker
And so how do you address that situation? Because a lot of times people are looking for, you know, the cheapest version on location because eventually they have to recoup their investment.
00:35:59
Speaker
ah but one But there's a lot of arcades. like We have a lot of arcades here in Texas that only have L.E.s. I understand that there are yeah arcades that want a better value because I know it's really, really hard to make money on pinball machines in general.
00:36:17
Speaker
um But like the thing is, we are building our games to last and they can sit on location. I mean, I've heard Labyrinth still to this day and a lot of locations are still earning the top 10, if not five games to this day.
00:36:31
Speaker
And they hold up really, really well. So you you overcome that with IP and the features in the game, because when you walk up and see a game that's been stripped down and is barren, sitting next to a game that has all this stuff in it, even if you're not familiar with either IP, which one do you think you're going to put your money in?
00:36:50
Speaker
And the majority of, honestly, customers nowadays are home collectors anyway. Like, yeah, there's a seismic shift from, again, this was very much an arcade amusement-centric product, but, you know, when the first, like the 2008 crash, that was where the seismic shifted to the home collector.
00:37:10
Speaker
You know, because it's literally us wanting to rediscover, could go back to our childhood and teenagers of going to the arcade. And we want to share that with our friends and our families.
00:37:21
Speaker
You know, our kids don't really like it that much, but again, we're trying to connect to them, show them, Hey, this is what your dad did. And they're like, yeah, okay. Yeah, whatever. but But the other thing is how we define ourselves. We define ourselves as a collectible company. And down the road, you'll see us come out with other stuff besides just the things that are in this room right now.
00:37:39
Speaker
um We don't define ourselves as an amusement machine company. We're a collectible machine company.
Future Plans of Barrels of Fun
00:37:46
Speaker
We're creating experiences. Absolutely. And there's nothing wrong with that. there's i think I think the hobby needs more of that in a sense that like I think It's this weird balance, right? Like, like you guys were talking about earlier, you can produce as many of these as you want, but then you kind of lose that collectability to it.
00:38:08
Speaker
You guys are creating a true collectible product product by what you're doing. Absolutely. But like, I mean, when I turned down, you know, a massive license that we can make for years and years?
00:38:21
Speaker
Probably not. But at the end of the day, there are so many IPs that we want to work with and games that we want to make. Like life is too short to spend five years making one title. Like and there is so many things that we want to show you that we're doing like you know this is absolutely the best that we can make right now but like again we have a 10-year plan well we're technically nine years into our plan something like that um but like we life is so short with everything i've experienced from covid
00:38:52
Speaker
within, you know, family members and stuff like that. Like, I don't want to spend my life making one machine, making just one thing. I want to empower these amazing people around us to make amazing product. and um Truly, truly, we truly believe if we make great product, the rest will follow.
00:39:11
Speaker
And i mean, there's trying times still, but again, because we can't predict what the world's going to do. But again, if we make a great product, And we we would be we are much happier making a medium number, a limited number of machines than having a license that is we have to triple the size of our facility to handle it.
Scaling and Production Logistics
00:39:35
Speaker
Because let's say we do that for a license. What happens when that license is over?
00:39:40
Speaker
Do I get rid of half my company, three quarters of my company? What do I do? so And honestly, scale wise, like, again, we've gone from two people to over 30 people now.
00:39:51
Speaker
And honestly, when I look like just we went, it's been 18 months, just over 18 months, we've gone from zero to 1000. And it's been like, it's been fantastic, but it's been very, very trying. I mean, i am the day to day side of it. I would say I underestimated what it would be to get where we are.
00:40:11
Speaker
But when we're looking at, do we want to get bigger than this? And we are technically expanding again to basically maintain what we can do. Vertically integrate with what the pieces and parts. What we can do.
00:40:24
Speaker
It's like, I don't see if I make this any bigger, it doesn't make us more profitable. It does. all ah I mean, in reality, headache it's all a small headache. So why don't we just do something that we can still have fun. I can still, um we can still empower the people that we love to work with and make great stuff. Yeah. yeah i need be any But the other thing that we can do with that is we are our commitment now that we're certainly absolutely trying to achieve is that we build all of these games, you know, basically by the end of the year, somewhere December, January, we'll be done with this.
00:40:58
Speaker
And so, because we don't want people waiting, two, three, four, five years for a machine. yeah They should get in in a reasonable amount of time because if you look at the interest out there, after about you know so many months, the interest in that one, even though I was all hot and heavy here, has faded away because now there's something else coming, but now I'll have to wait for that.
00:41:18
Speaker
So there's kind of an optimal timeframe and an optimal number to make that you can meet those expectation levels and keep all your customers happy and keep them looking forward to whatever the next crazy thing you're going to do.
00:41:31
Speaker
So that seems that your goal would be basically between 150 and 200 month. If you're going to make 1,000 by the end of the year. sure that That's not
Efficient Production Process
00:41:42
Speaker
a problem.
00:41:42
Speaker
Yeah, that's what you're looking for. So how many man hours does it take to start a game until the end of the line? And you're putting it in a box. Well, again, we're literally putting 20 games out um a week.
00:41:55
Speaker
Okay. But like how long, how long from when you start that, like, you know, the, the first time you get the the cabinet out and you're doing the play field until you're putting it in a box. Is it a three day process, five day process?
00:42:09
Speaker
Uh, well, we've got 30 people, a little bit less than that. I can't remember off the top of my head because today's been a really long day, but with, yeah again, with basically a play field goes for a station every 40 minutes. Um,
00:42:24
Speaker
The cabinets done within two hours. Now these are different people. Yeah. They're all different. team assembly i Yeah. So again, we're doing six a day. So we can break that down.
00:42:35
Speaker
I kind of do method this time of night. And well, then it goes, it has to go through QC. So season over 45 minutes. So it's, you know, I, if you want to, pick a number it's probably about an hour yeah yeah yeah a machine totally you know two hours of machine but it's not it doesn't work that way exactly because it's it's all in pieces and parts so we haven't tried to put a clock exactly yeah on the main course it's probably about nine hours beginning but then you're breaking that down okay that's impressive one one thing you guys talked about you said you're like into you're almost 10 years into your you have a 10-year plan you're like nine years in
00:43:11
Speaker
How can we ask how many more and or what you're in? How, how many licenses ahead are you? Cause you said that you, you started with labyrinth and you were already working on dude when you had labyrinth.
Flexible Development Strategy
00:43:25
Speaker
Can we, can we, we don't want to know what the licenses are. We're just, it's a not, it's an ongoing continual hunt and search. Like things come and go, things are are available. Then go away for certain reasons and come back.
00:43:39
Speaker
I mean, we have at least,
00:43:43
Speaker
three four licenses written it's more than that six yeah about six licenses written and then there's some others that are in contract in contract stage and we have three games in active development dang you guys are you're killing it so right now you're like in 18 month cycle do you plan on maybe bumping that time frame up as you guys get more under your belt so that It could be. so yeah yeah It comes down to, we want to be agile enough.
00:44:16
Speaker
Like Dune, you know, with scaling up our facility, because with the success of Labyrinth, we had to expand even more. With the amount of games that we sold to try and meet realistic expectations of games going out, which I feel like, I mean, we've done a good job to get all our games out within 18 months, but I still feel like we let people down because people were waiting for this game. So we scaled to try and eliminate that with the next game, which we will be able what to do. And part of that was because we were in startup mode.
00:44:49
Speaker
And startup mode, or as I say now, we've gone from startup mode 1.0 to startup mode 2.0. yeah Because this is the first time we flipped the line over. So now we... We'll have had that experience and we know how long it takes to do that, to change all that around. And so as we get through this year, we'll begin to reach normalcy for how we'll operate you know forever because we also figured out we didn't have enough space, even what we're doing now. So we're in process of going next door.
00:45:18
Speaker
As well, fortunately for us, the people next door left, yay! So it leaves more space for us to expand our processes so we can do more vertical vertical integration of the parts because the biggest problem we have in all of this is the vendors not being able to deliver the product that they said they could deliver at the timeframe or the quality level that they said they would deliver it. And so by bringing in some of the stuff that we can create our own items, we take that equation out. It probably won't be any cheaper.
00:45:49
Speaker
it will cheaper. But it will save us to money because it will save us time. And yeah we know when it's going to be done, it's going to be there. And we're not going to sit there like the labyrinths that sitting on the line out there right now. I have no backglasses in them because we're waiting on the vendor.
00:46:03
Speaker
Well, and at the end of the day, it allows us a rapid prototype as well. So now we can go from a three, three to six week turnaround time to get prototyping. Now we can literally how quickly they can draw it up, we can have a cart formed and fitted within eight hours.
00:46:20
Speaker
um Now it's not perfect at all, but it's enough to start mocking stuff up. Yeah, it goes, it's gonna work. And ideally, we don't want to be manufacturing, it's more of a stock gap. Like, again, we've learned never have one vendor doing one thing. in Right? Like we have to have multiple supply chains.
00:46:39
Speaker
yeah um So it's really just streamlining on how we get that to all come together. um But also when it comes to when you're developing a product, it might just not be the vendors.
00:46:50
Speaker
It could be a licensing situation that has to switch up or something slows down because of X. So we want to have multiple titles in development.
00:47:01
Speaker
So what happens if ah game C all of a sudden, oh, we've got this great opportunity with this celebrity to do this, this and this. Can we bring it out three months earlier? And we want to be in a position where we can take an opportunity and chase that.
00:47:18
Speaker
you know or this one's taking a little bit longer but now we can move this one into the you know to let this one take a little bit more time we can bring this one in because this person was like the licensor on this one was very straightforward as much simpler product we can do it we get that out a little bit earlier so now we can take the pressure off this one um we're not in that stage yet but we that's where we're heading we're heading into that situation where we can try to be as nimble as possible to keep a We have, you know, we don't have, we have
Supporting Employees
00:47:50
Speaker
family out there. We have employees. We pay health care for, know, we pay the health insurance. We give them a living salary. I don't want to ever have to think about laying them off.
00:48:00
Speaker
And so it's really important that we get our crap together on the development side so I can keep them doing the job that they love. You know, it's it's a very complex, you know, situation.
00:48:14
Speaker
Yeah. yeah
00:48:17
Speaker
Well, it sounds like you guys are, you're, you're heading in the right direction. And obviously the growth of your company is proof of that.
Reception and Plans for Austin Visit
00:48:25
Speaker
um I think, I think everyone's cheering you on. I don't hear anyone that's like, Oh, barrels of fun. Forget those guys. haven't, I haven't, haven't heard anything.
00:48:34
Speaker
I actually, this would probably be a good time. Josh, do you want, should we look at the play field? All right. Quick side note. If you're listening to the audio right now, we just cut out about 10 to 15 minutes of glass off going through the game itself.
00:48:49
Speaker
If you want to check out that footage, join us on YouTube at loser kid pinball. So just youtube.com slash at loser kid pinball. get to that video, check out the insane worm that comes out of the play field. Not only does it eat the ball and swallow the ball, it raises it up and pushes it out onto the wire form.
00:49:09
Speaker
This thing is insane. You've got to check this out. Like I said, come join us right now on our YouTube. If not, enjoy the rest of the podcast. When do these start shipping? um yeah we Well, technically, one of these games, well, both these games are going out this week ah to certain locations. And basically, we've got to go through all the orders we have right now.
00:49:34
Speaker
Games are on the line. They're actually, think there's four cabinets out back. if Actually, if we was remote, I'd take you walking out there. um But, yeah, we have... games on the line right now but I'm not going to release them very quickly because I want to make sure that these are where they need to be we've got to ramp up when when can people get when's the first show you guys will have this at a show to get their hands on So Allentown, there will definitely be at Allentown. There's at least two games going to be at Allentown.
00:50:03
Speaker
um As of tomorrow, as we go through the orders that have come through, will prioritize location and shows and obviously people that have paid their money. So again, we want to make sure that we can get people to have hands on the game. So we're going to get out to the East Coast, West Coast. We've got games going up to Europe. We've got a game going up to Europe. We've got a game going to Australia.
00:50:25
Speaker
um They're on their way. Awesome.
00:50:31
Speaker
Okay. It's terrifying. You let the babies out. Well, they have to fly out of the nest sometime. yeah Oh, a hundred percent. Yeah. my wife would kill me if I kept them all.
00:50:43
Speaker
Well, we want to thank you, David and, and, and Brian for joining us on this episode for going through, uh, doing with us and talking barrels of fun and talking about the passion that you guys have for pinball. It's definitely bleeding through.
00:50:56
Speaker
I mean, congrats to this game release. It is looking amazing. Is there something you wanted to say, Scott? You know, I was just saying you're right. it Shipping an LE quality game for a ah manageable price is the right way to go on this.
00:51:12
Speaker
you definitely feel the environmental aspect of the game, which is what you need for something like a sci-fi game. You need to feel like you're part of the world. Having that screen in the back is brilliant.
00:51:24
Speaker
I remember seeing a mod maybe five years ago or so where someone did, i think it was a Twilight Zone, where they put an an LCD back there and it really changed the feel of the game.
00:51:36
Speaker
Doing this is very smart. And Brian, you're right. As opposed to just putting sculpted stuff back there, having ah Having a screen that you can integrate ah with the animations is the right way to go.
00:51:47
Speaker
ah This is great. I can't wait to check it out. Well, we hope we get to see one pretty soon. Yeah. Definitely. I'll come to have something yeah no sound but Yeah. Sounds good. Well, Josh and I will have to figure out a weekend when we can fly out.
00:52:02
Speaker
I know it's not Houston or Fort Worth, but I've always wanted to hit Austin and go to Franklin's barbecue. That is one of my. We got barbecue that can go to Austin. Wow. oh Wow. that's Friends don't let friends go to Austin.
00:52:14
Speaker
Oh. yeah Ask anyone that was here for the Twippy Award tour and the barbecue we had here. I think they were pretty pleased. yeah Nice. there's There's a place in Denver called Post Oak that is amazing. but That's one of my top favorites. So apparently I to get down to Houston, see if it can rival what I've had. so That sounds like we come um see you once you guys come down here. Fair trade.
00:52:36
Speaker
Okay, sounds good. there anything else you guys want to say before we wrap this up? not you know We want to thank everybody. we want to thank the people that have helped us. We want to thank the people that purchased our games.
00:52:47
Speaker
We want to thank all the media people that came out today and you guys for taking the time to spend with us tonight to go over our new game. And we're here to...
00:52:58
Speaker
build collectible games for a long time and come see us and come try out our games. Yeah. and We wouldn't be here if it wasn't for the fans that supported that game over there.
00:53:11
Speaker
Like you guys have no idea how much it means to us. Like there's no reason why people should own pinball machines, let alone, you know, crazy things that we want to do. And it just, it means the world to all of us, the people down on the line, like,
00:53:28
Speaker
And we have very little, knock on wood, but we have very little turnover because everyone loves coming to work. And that's that's the most rewarding thing about this whole company is seeing these people make awesome stuff every day. It is hard.
00:53:44
Speaker
And we just, you know, we can't wait for people to experience doing, like, I mean, it is, you know, it is awesome. Yeah, it truly is. You anything, Scott, before I wrap it up? You know it's so great. Really, you guys' hands, like, I'm surprised.
00:54:02
Speaker
And i'm i'm not I'm not easily surprised when I see the quality that you guys have at this stage of your company. it You really have the same quality that I would have expected from a company that's four to five games into their development.
00:54:17
Speaker
So you really have jumped far ahead, and i'm I'm really looking forward to seeing where you guys are taking it. thanks we appreciate that if you uh if someone wants to get a hold of you how do they get hold of you guys You can find us at Barrelsoffun.com. Barrelsoffun.com, collectfun.com, socials.
00:54:37
Speaker
um Yeah, we're around. You can reach out to us. Perfect. Perfect. If you want to get a hold of us, we are LoserKidPinballPodcast at gmail.com. We're on all the socials at LoserKidPinball. Please like, subscribe, all that jazz.
00:54:50
Speaker
ah Hit up our silverballswag.com slash LoserKid. We dropped that new 8-bit t-shirt. People are loving it. They love the retro vibe and everything like that. And ah Scott, give us our last words.
00:55:02
Speaker
You know, I go to Houston tour, tour barrels of fun.