Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Harry Potter Pinball with Eric Meunier
2 Playsin 9 hours
Eric Meunier joins us to talk about his team's newest creation, Harry Potter!
Recommended
Transcript
00:00:07
Speaker
Thanks for tuning in to the Loser Kid Pinball Podcast. We've got an exciting episode today. I'm Josh Roop. With me, my co-captain as always, Scott Larson. And Harry Potter has officially revealed Flippin' Out's ready to take your orders.
00:00:20
Speaker
These games are amazing. You better get on that list, though, because I hear these things are selling like hotcakes. What about you, Scott? I think they're selling better than hotcakes because the demand is huge. And I know that this is the most anticipated license that's ever been released in pinball.
00:00:36
Speaker
This is also one of those licenses that is is relevant. It connects with people. And this bridges beyond pinball. it's It's the biggest license. So absolutely get your pinball machine in and get your order in because this is going to be a forever piece in your collection.
00:00:53
Speaker
What would we have like four distributors say that like this is the best game sales wise they've had in like two decades or in the top three and one even said triple digits on sales. That's insane.
00:01:04
Speaker
Yeah. With us, we're we're going to stop talking about this because because Eric's here with us. Eric, our first interviewee ever when he did Pirates of the Caribbean. This man's now a legend on your fourth official game, if I remember correctly.
00:01:20
Speaker
This is my fourth official game as lead designer. And it just each one keeps getting better and better. And I got to tell you, like it's it's great to have you on, Eric. We appreciate you finding the time because it's apparently chaos.
00:01:33
Speaker
You've been there almost 12 hours now, and and it's only at our time. It's like six o'clock there. It's six o'clock here. yeah So it's been a little much. ah assembly line starts at 7 a.m. m man and i gotta be here to make sure they're doing everything they need to do to make these games perfect so baker's always in early to make sure the ingredients are ready right you got it you know what we've got a ton of questions this came out out of the pipe looking amazing i just i think everyone is very well pleased i think there was a super high bar already with it being harry potter everyone's like
00:02:07
Speaker
This is a dream thing how theme. How is it going to get screwed up? ah You know, people articulate and speculate. Well, this is what's going to happen or this is what's going amazing. This comes out first off the mechs and this look amazing. like And I don't know how you put in the trailer says six movies, right?
00:02:25
Speaker
Six movies into this game. It covers all eight. There's eight movies. the The main modes you play through are the first six movies. Gotcha. And the final two movies are the wizard modes.
00:02:37
Speaker
Oh, my goodness. I don't know. Okay, how do you approach a game like this, a theme this big, and you say, hey, we're going to shove 24 hours of constant continuous footage into one game?
00:02:51
Speaker
You have to do it in a way where you can use play field elements for every film. right So you have to come up with what are the um rocks upon which all of the films are based and not specialized environments, encounters, or scenes that only happen in one film.
00:03:12
Speaker
So starting from that concept, I tried to build objects or ideas that carry across all eight films. So obviously Hogwarts carries across all eight films. So the main central mechanism is the grand staircase.
00:03:30
Speaker
Hundreds of scenes in the films are filmed in Hogwarts and exploring the different elements of the castle. Another major mech is the Death Eater. you know, fighting villains and overcoming the adversity of the bad guys is something that carries through all of the films.
00:03:48
Speaker
Quidditch is a big part of most of the films and flying on broomsticks is a part of all of the films. So having that Quidditch upper playfield certainly lends itself to being usable in not just a single mode, single specific scene, but across dozens of scenes throughout the course of the eight movies.
00:04:10
Speaker
Now i I want to know what is your connection to Harry Potter? Because it seems like everybody has been involved at some level of our connection of connection with Harry Potter. So I want, I want you to tell me about what draws you to this theme.
00:04:29
Speaker
oh man. and um You know, it's it, it's that,
00:04:36
Speaker
you know, having, a quote like tough childhood right where like I grew up working for my parents every night weekend summer um not a lot of time ah goofing around and just like chilling out was not a thing that we did because we were ran a family business we had to all of us be involved and be a part of the business all the time um So, you know, this concept that there's a whole hidden world out there that you could be invited to, um to take you away from, you know, with Harry and the Dursleys, right? He's in a miserable situation. My situation was nothing like that. I had very loving parents.
00:05:20
Speaker
They just liked to work really hard and and instilled that in their children. um But this, you could get a letter one day and suddenly you'd be in this magical place where you're, you're defying gravity and you're flying on broomsticks and you're learning spells and charms like that.
00:05:38
Speaker
That idea that you could be transported to a whole different world because you got a letter was something that, you know, as a, but see the first book came out when I was eight years old, you know, and I read that first book when I was eight years old.
00:05:53
Speaker
And it's just like captured the essence of like childhood dream, like this could be this could be me, I could be Harry, you know, where's my letter from Hogwarts.
00:06:07
Speaker
And continuing to get the books as they come out and read through them. you know grow up at at a very similar age to Harry as they were coming, as the books were coming was just a very endearing and like brought me close to the franchise.
00:06:26
Speaker
Um, so yeah, it's, it's cool. It's a, it's a series that I fell in love with as a kid and it's just, it's now it's a part of me. Well, and, and one thing to point out too,
00:06:37
Speaker
Shout out to Retro Ralph. He did a wonderful job on the featurette with you and your team. um You also talked about this wonderful story with you and your wife. Yes. I love that. Why don't you just give us a little synopsis? Yeah. too um So book number five, the order of the Phoenix came out when I was 16.
00:06:56
Speaker
um my wife was, sorry, my high school girlfriend at the time, her name is Ashley. She is now been my wife for 13 years. Uh, we've been together for, 20 years.
00:07:11
Speaker
Um, so we were, we were kids and we were, you know, waiting for this book to come out and she read the books as well. And so I asked her parents if we could drive to the midnight release, just her and me, right? I'm a responsible young man asking to take their, their daughter, you know, out past curfew, well past curfew so that we could go wait in line for a book.
00:07:35
Speaker
Um, you know, thinking now as a parent, it's like, yes, of course, if you're, you guys are going to go get a book together, that's the sweetest thing I've ever heard. So, Now take me back to when I was 16.
00:07:47
Speaker
um We, we drive to the nearest bookstore that had a midnight release, which was over an hour drive away. Cause we grew up in very rural Wisconsin. We wait in line for the midnight release.
00:08:01
Speaker
We get up and there are hundreds of people here waiting at this Barnes and Noble in Madison, Wisconsin. ah And so we get in line and, you know, get there at like ten o'clock and again hundreds of people.
00:08:14
Speaker
We finally get through the line around 1230 and we get in the car and we turn on the passenger overhead light and Ashley reads the first chapter out loud as we're driving back home. And it's a you know, I think can be described as a core memory, right? It's like, that's something that I'll never forget.
00:08:33
Speaker
And it's great. And like, that's a memory. That's a part of me. And it has to do with Potter and it has to do with the love of my life. And, you know, now we're happily married. We have two kids who are also obsessed with Harry Potter and they've been reading it and they've been, you know, playing the game before anyone else in the world has and providing their feedback. And it's, it's a, it's a really cool thing.
00:08:55
Speaker
That's awesome. And I love it because you're coming from a place. It's not just a license, right? It's, it's a part of a passion that you bring to the table and an understanding of the franchise that maybe not the normal person would have in pinball.
00:09:09
Speaker
And so I think that has definitely oozed through looking at this game. I think everyone can see it, right? I'm seeing comments on Facebook, on YouTube and saying, you can tell that there's a passion for this from you, Eric, and from the team.
00:09:21
Speaker
And it's wonderful because we know that the that's going to ooze through into the project, right? um I got to ask, how how long has this been in development? And and were you one of the first ones to be like, hey, it's me.
00:09:34
Speaker
I want it.
00:09:36
Speaker
um I've been, and I think I've said it a couple of times on different podcasts, how Potter would be my dream theme, right? All the way back to when I was first starting games.
00:09:47
Speaker
um Harry Potter would be ah just a fantastic pinball machine and I would love to be the person at the helm because I live and breathe this. I used to be able to quote like you could read a sentence from one of the books and I could tell you what part of the story that was, what book it was from, what chapter it was from. Like I was obsessed, um still am obsessed.
00:10:12
Speaker
So we've been pursuing this license forever. And, you know, Jack was at the helm of pursuing that license. And when it finally became more than just, ah oh, yeah, it'd be nice to have, you know, it's more like, Eric, this is happening.
00:10:28
Speaker
And you're the guy who has to do it. And yeah, absolutely. I'm the guy who has to do it. No one will do it the way that I can do it because I live and breathe this thing.
00:10:44
Speaker
So tell me about is there any trepidation if it's such a dream theme? And I would put it this way. um For me, it would be something like Rush where you know i've I've been involved in the band my entire life.
00:11:00
Speaker
And it would be hard for me to separate the things that would be most important or not important and or or Star Wars for me or or something along those lines.
00:11:11
Speaker
but is it hard to separate you as the fan and the personal connection versus you as the practical pinball designer who knows that you have to pick and choose what you're going to put into the game?
00:11:26
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, it's, it's super intimidating when you approach something that the entire world has a connection to. Right. And, I'm exaggerating a bit, right? There are some people who've never watched a Potter film or read a Potter book, but most people of my generation grew up with this. They have a connection to this story. They have a connection to some or most of the characters, right?
00:11:54
Speaker
And my... My like number one drive was to make sure every fan had what they were looking for, had the character they were looking for, had the scenes that they remembered, had that sense of wonder when they walk up to this, the same sense of wonder they had when they read the books and watched the films for the first time.
00:12:19
Speaker
um I couldn't leave anything behind. I knew that the the franchise song, Hedwig's Theme by John Williams, like that song is...
00:12:37
Speaker
It's iconic, right? You know, Potter, when you hear that song, I I taught myself how to play that song on my saxophone in high school just by ear. Right. I figured it out and I would play it all the time, just like doodling around in the band room.
00:12:53
Speaker
um It's it's important that it be a part of the game. And yes, every Potter fan would agree to that. Right. Of course, you you need the song.
00:13:05
Speaker
That's That's not included. That's not a part of what Warner Brothers owns and licenses, right? That's a whole separate agreement with a whole separate group that has a separate royalty that gets paid. And that's all like extra on top of the original licensing fees and costs and negotiations that we had to that we had to go through in order to bring this project to the level that it needed to be brought.
00:13:37
Speaker
Did you have any challenges with, okay, because the cast is so immersive, i mean, this is, i would argue this is very similar to the Lord of the Rings, where it's, ah there are a core element of people who are going to be in every film.
00:13:53
Speaker
However, there's going to be, you know, there's going to be those one-off characters who are in one film or another film and trying to incorporate them all into it.
00:14:04
Speaker
that has to be a challenging negotiation with all of these, all of these actors and all of their, all their respective things. However, I would, I would suspect that they all like being associated with it.
00:14:17
Speaker
And so maybe that agree greased it a little bit, but can you talk a little bit about incorporating all the, all the characters you wanted into the, into the game? Sure.
00:14:28
Speaker
um So Warner brothers and the way that things have worked with Warner brothers with pinball in the way that we've licensed things in the past is we've had access to all of the characters.
00:14:40
Speaker
So in, in the Hobbit, when we did that, we had full access to every character in the films, um, unless there was a very special overrider, uh, that went on top. but For Hobbit, we didn't have any issues. For Wonka, there was, I think, one or two characters that couldn't be included, like the ah teacher from the classroom. like that That character wasn't allowable by the license agreement that we had with Warner Brothers.
00:15:09
Speaker
For this license, I'm going to say almost, because there's one character specifically that I don't even want to mention. ah Which is fine. They are a minor character.
00:15:21
Speaker
um But outside of one minor character who plays a minor role in one film, there was not a single character off the table. Every actor's rights were included with the um contract in this agreement.
00:15:37
Speaker
So we were able to use Radcliffe and Grint and Watson without any issue access to their on-screen presence as well as their voice um and and every character down from the golden trio down to background students were acceptable and usable in the film in the in the game.
00:16:01
Speaker
So how do how do you build a game around the golden trio that ends up aging through these movies like do you is it very much you separate them all and distill down into their own individual movies or is it you you Because you have to tie the theme all together, right? Like it's a big package.
00:16:19
Speaker
so How do you tie that all together, especially when there's so much age difference from beginning to end? Right. Yeah. When someone you know goes through puberty, basically, in yeah on screen, there's that there's a vast difference in how they look.
00:16:32
Speaker
So there's a couple different things that we did to help with that. The first was we did hand-drawn artwork. Right. Which allows you to smooth out some of the edges. You're like, well, are they 15 in that? Are they 18 in that? You know, it's a hand drawn artwork style. So age kind of you can smooth it out a bit.
00:16:54
Speaker
Right. Yeah. um One of the other things we've done is, for example, Golden Trio multiball. There's an intro scene for Golden Trio multiball. Actually, there's two intro scenes. There's one where the kids are like 11 slash 12. And there's another one where they're like 16, 17, because whichever film you're currently playing while you queue up Golden Trio, when you start Golden Trio, whichever film you're currently in, it's like, well, which age group is it? Oh, it's the younger age group. It's movie one, two and three.
00:17:25
Speaker
Use the younger showcase versus it's movie four, five or six. Well, use the older showcase for that intro scene. So we try not to show a lot of jarring age differences in the film clips that we use from scene to scene.
00:17:40
Speaker
Another way that we helped with that is when you are playing a movie, it's specifically you are locked into that movie. You're not playing a scene from movie one and then a scene from movie five and then a scene from movie two. No, it's like you select year one at Hogwarts and you're playing all of the Philosopher's Stones.
00:18:02
Speaker
And then you can change to a different movie where you're, okay, now you're playing year four. You're playing all of the Goblet of Fire. So you're not seeing the character's ages jump around or be on screen in front of you. Sure, we use a couple of clips when we're like locking a ball for multi-ball or the extra ball scene, you know, where it's a single clip that could be that's great when used in context, um, where there's a slightly different age, but for the most part, we try to keep that continuity of the film that you're playing through as set in age.
00:18:39
Speaker
So to, to connect with that, I did notice that, yes, you have all of the, you know, all of the movies. So when you're selecting say like your example, um, the goblet of fire,
00:18:53
Speaker
So are there like six different modes for that movie? Or like, how does that work? Because that almost seems like you are, you're engineering six different, but like six different ah code like sets because each movie is so, well, okay. Each each movie or book, you could absolutely write a complete pinball machine for each of those books.
00:19:20
Speaker
Yes. Yes, we could. um The way we made that work is by breaking each year into three um school timelines. I'm going to call it that.
00:19:36
Speaker
So when you start a year at Hogwarts, you play through the fall term. And the fall term is the first five iconic scenes from that movie, from the first half of that movie.
00:19:51
Speaker
Then you play through the spring term, which is the next five important or iconic scenes from that movie. And then finally, you take your final exam, which is the finale of that film.
00:20:07
Speaker
um So each of those three chunks has at least five different scenes and the scenes in order to complete a scene, you have to make two to four shots in the scene. So it's like each one of them is their own little mini mode where the continuity for the mode is mode shots are always flashing the Gryffindor colors.
00:20:35
Speaker
It's always crimson and gold. um on the insert. So anytime you see an insert flashing red and yellow, crimson and gold, um that's your movie shot or target or objective.
00:20:50
Speaker
um So you hit that shot or those shots and you progress the scene into the next scene. So you make it, you complete it, you get a reward of movie asset completion, some sort of scene that what you will remember that ties into the scene you're currently playing.
00:21:08
Speaker
um and you you continue through so yes there are a lot of scenes every one of these movies has 15 to 18 mini modes that you play through so yeah there's over 90 mode based objective mini modes that are each 30 seconds um What I really wanted to do was make this approachable from four casual players as well as experienced pinball players.
00:21:45
Speaker
one of the One of the ways of doing that is If you have a mode shot that is maybe more difficult than a different mode shot, I'm not going to lock you into that where you have to shoot this and if you don't shoot this, well too bad you're never going to move on.
00:22:04
Speaker
Moving modes are based on your 30 seconds to complete this scene and if you don't complete this scene, Oh, well, we move on anyways. You don't get the completion bonus for it, but you move into the next scene anyways.
00:22:18
Speaker
So what I've noticed is that casual players will start a movie, um not necessarily focus on it but they're still seeing the the scenes from the film go past, even though they're not completing those movie scenes.
00:22:31
Speaker
They still get to experience the movie. So, so the movies are kind of like their own contained modes. And when you say mini modes, you're essentially, you do have a mode, but it's, it's, it's only a couple of shots. So it's not like, correct.
00:22:45
Speaker
Cause I think that was one of the one things when I heard 96 modes, mini modes, i was like, hold on now. The typical game has like, you know, anywhere six to 11. Yeah. You know?
00:22:56
Speaker
And so when you hear 96, you're like, hold on, what do I got to do now? Like, yeah so So that but makes it a little easier. So it sounds like it's more of like, would you say i probably about 10 to 15 shots you got to complete at a movie? it sounds like with all the movies and everything.
00:23:14
Speaker
No, I would say you're closer to 30 to 40 shots to complete a movie. okay Like I think of a specific mode like Blue Cornish Pixies.
00:23:27
Speaker
That's a scene out of the second film. ah um All of the shots light up blue because there's pixies flying around. You hit one pixie, two pixie, three pixies. And then the end of the scene is you hit the Hermione targets and you see her shout, Mobulus, and she shoots her wand up in the air and all the pixies freeze.
00:23:48
Speaker
Yeah. And then it moves on to the next scene. Right. Okay. So it's like, yeah, there's there's four shots in that mode. um But it's not difficult to, to make those three shots and then hit the Hermione targets.
00:24:01
Speaker
Correct. So, so it's more of a, um, so I assume all this is going to be linear, right? Like, um when you start a movie, you're, you're starting from the beginning and working through the movie. Correct. When you start that movie, you progress linearly through that movie.
00:24:16
Speaker
Um, that was one of the points that I had to spell out multiple times, um, to the non pinball people. Um, that are behind the Potter franchise, right? It's like, believe me, you don't want, I don't want, the fans don't want to play Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone every single time they hit the start button.
00:24:41
Speaker
That is not fun. Believe me, it's not fun. It's not interesting. It gets old, it gets repetitive, and it will not be successful for this game. So we made it so when you shoot into the scoop,
00:24:55
Speaker
First, it's semi-random, meaning that before you go into the scoop, every flipper flip that you make is moving which mode is currently lit.
00:25:07
Speaker
And we've done that a couple times in previous games as well, like Dialed In, for example, switches the mode before you shoot into the scoop based on your flipper hits. But then, because there are, of course, players who don't understand that, see that, know that they can trap up, offset by one, and shoot the scoop in order to get the mode they want, we also make it selectable.
00:25:29
Speaker
When you shoot into the scoop, you can choose which movie you want to play, hit the action button, and choose that film.
00:25:36
Speaker
Nice. Now, looking at the bottom play field, I i am a little curious because it it looks like you resurrected the bottom play field that you had in Pirates.
00:25:47
Speaker
and Now, the difference is Pirates is a wide body. This is you know your standard body. And so did that cause any challenges? Because you if you have lane, an and does that limit the, the shot geometry because you, you are narrowing the focus that you can hit from the bottom flippers.
00:26:15
Speaker
Um, well, I cheated a little bit, right? And the way I cheated is my shooter lane comes up and over the right return. I did notice that it, it hovers above that, right? Yeah. So it,
00:26:32
Speaker
yeah So I eked an inch an extra like inch and a quarter out of a normal standard body because I'm using that shooter lane to act as my right turn. ah One of the right returns.
00:26:45
Speaker
um That. concept was something, yes, I started, I did that in Pirates. um And what made it really interesting is how smoothly the ball feeds when it goes to the outermost lane and rolls through.
00:27:04
Speaker
And you can see I kind of capitalized on that concept here. when So every shot that returns to the lower flippers, it doesn't doesn't ride down a a wire ramp come to a hoop hit the end of the hoop stop drop through the hole slowly roll down to your flipper guide and then slowly roll to your flipper right this constant return with speed to the flippers is
00:27:39
Speaker
very different than most other games. It's extremely fast. I have seen really good players the first time they walk up to this game completely whiff because the playfield is so quick.
00:27:56
Speaker
They're not used to the ball feeding your flippers so quickly. um And I warn everyone, you will miss the second time the ball comes to your left flipper because the first time we put up a post, we flap the flipper so that you understand it's coming down the left lane and then feeding to your flipper.
00:28:17
Speaker
it's
00:28:19
Speaker
It's definitely a different feel. You can get used to it, um but it does not provide that ability to immediately trap up from every return to the flipper and then aim your shot. It it encourages more of a quicker combo based on the fly flowing sort of shooting game.
00:28:40
Speaker
and And with that speed, it does from at least from physics, it does open the side shots a little bit more. You have to time it better, but if you have some velocity going down to the flipper, if you hit the flipper, then it's going to go lateral farther.
00:28:57
Speaker
you know, that if you get the, the outer inner lane versus the inner inner lane. Yep. And so, so I'm assuming you you're leveraging ah the geometric aspects of that to get different areas of the play field. Cause I, I think you, it almost seems like that sorting hat shot, you need to hit the outer left inner flipper to get the velocity to get over to the right.
00:29:21
Speaker
You can, you can make that shot from a standstill, but it's a lot harder than making it on the fly. Right. Like it's, it's a smoother shot on the fly than from a standstill. Cause it is like a hair's breadth above the right slingshot in order to make that.
00:29:37
Speaker
can' Can you ski jump over to the other flipper or is there no gates on the other sides to block from going? There are gates. Um, there are one way gates to prevent rollbacks and live catches and drop catches from, from rolling out.
00:29:50
Speaker
Um, but even ski jumps, if you don't time your flipper drop perfectly, you're ski jumping into the slingshot because the ball's coming so quickly. It's like you dink and then it's, you know, chaos.
00:30:05
Speaker
What made you decide? because I mean, this is obviously more of a younger generation oriented theme. And I know that games in the past that have been geared towards the younger generation have gotten slack for being hard, quote unquote. so So I guess how do you go about making a game that I guess perception wise might be You should coddle the player a little bit more.
00:30:28
Speaker
Right. um One of the design decisions was to make it so almost every shot in the game can be stopped if we choose to stop it through software.
00:30:43
Speaker
So almost every shot, and I say almost because I think that sorting hat shot is not technically stoppable by programming.
00:30:53
Speaker
But every other shot is. We can grab it with a magnet, divert it to the vertical up kicker. We can put up a post. We can rotate the staircase so that it feeds an area where we can stop the ball.
00:31:06
Speaker
So we can choose to hold the ball lots of times if we want to. Um,
00:31:15
Speaker
So we do that where we think it's appropriate to help the player understand the rules, understand their objectives, um but not do it so much that we interrupt the flow of the game.
00:31:28
Speaker
How many magnets are in this game?
00:31:31
Speaker
Well, technically every solenoid is a magnet. Okay, but... But let's see. That you expect movement from the magnet engaging to affect the trajectory of the ball.
00:31:42
Speaker
Yeah. be only Only two. I've got a big pancake magnet in the in the orbit that allows me to grab the ball from the orbit shot, from the center shot, from the upper loop shot, and drop it into the vertical up kicker at the back of the game.
00:32:00
Speaker
And then there's a magnet after that that allows me to divert the ball to the top of the staircase. um There are no other magnets embedded in the play field or under the play field, but using those two as diverters allows me to again position the ball and change the balls end a point from the same entrance.
00:32:26
Speaker
So I can send a shot so many different places, even though it's shoot up the right orbit and it can go a ton of different places because of those two magnets and the staircase.
00:32:40
Speaker
Now, piggybacking on that, you now have, when you first started, um you didn't have a lot of veterans helping, for for example, but now you have someone who is known for speed. Well, you you have some, okay.
00:32:55
Speaker
But now you have Steve Ritchie, who is known for faster, free-flowing games, which admittedly is different than someone like Pat Lawler, where Pat Lawler was kind of known for hey, you have to trap up and it is a you know it's like a shooting gallery.
00:33:11
Speaker
You need to get control of the ball and shoot it. This seems to be more influenced by a a Steve Ritchie philosophy in having the ball move. So was it was it an asset to have Steve there so you could talk to him about, hey, what have you done in the past to keep the ball moving?
00:33:29
Speaker
board yeah are you guys on parallel paths? I'm just curious as to how collaborative the process is. Um, generally game designers don't collaborate on ideas, but game designers will absolutely play the game and give feedback on the game after they've played it.
00:33:55
Speaker
But you're generally not sitting in the office with them as we're drawing lines and circles and going through stuff like that. Um, I would say that, you know, I started this approach of faster games with Godfather. It's a really quick game.
00:34:11
Speaker
It's a really speed heavy game. And I think I pushed it a lot farther now with with Potter. And it's a really it's a really fun way of making a game where the the pats method of shooting gallery lots of stop and stop and go action um because of the way i put diverters in my games and where i can alter almost every shot in the game to go a different place it allows me to have software make it a super fast flowing game or a stop and go game based on what we currently need the play field to do so
00:34:56
Speaker
Definitely evolved more from the Godfather, which had a lot of diverters, but not quite as many as this one.
00:35:07
Speaker
So um just a really quick shout out to our Patreon. We want to thank them for for supporting us. We actually gave them the opportunity to ask some questions to Eric, and he they submitted some of these.
00:35:18
Speaker
um We want to thank Mike, Alan, and Jason for submitting some questions. ah Mike wants to know, do you know if any of the actors or if J.K. Rowling will be getting a game themselves? i do not know if any of the talent or Rowling will receive a game.
00:35:37
Speaker
We didn't directly interact with um Rowling or any of the talent while we were creating this. We worked directly with Warner Brothers and any questions that had to go beyond them, they handled.
00:35:52
Speaker
Okay, and then one the other questions, too, is theres there's a lot of hype for this game. There are a lot of people who want this game. ah First off, can you give us kind of a timeline when these games are going to be start?
00:36:04
Speaker
assume they're being built, but when we're going to see kind of the different models roll out. Let's see. oh Oh, you're in the factory. I'm in the factory right now where our stage is. And this is where I've been living.
00:36:18
Speaker
um We thought you were in Hogwarts. There's there's a bed back there too, underneath the staircase. Yeah. um This is where I've been living for the past like six weeks. And we've already put over 100 games in boxes. Every one of our distributors has a game on their showroom floor. We'll be getting one you know tomorrow or the next day.
00:36:36
Speaker
um Customer games have already been delivered. there So the CE game is on the line right now. um There's a lot of hype around that model.
00:36:47
Speaker
There's also a lot of hype around the arcade model, right? The 99.99 model. um And we're building quite a few of those next. um We're interspersing the models so that we can...
00:37:01
Speaker
feed some out to every group of people who wants that model. And you know right now it's my job to to be here with the assembly line and and course correct and verify and just check that the game is coming out exactly as I designed it.
00:37:17
Speaker
And it's coming together really well. The team is really getting into the groove and they're put out putting in a lot of games in boxes every day. So it's it's great.
00:37:30
Speaker
So, I mean, this has been super successful. and And Scott and I have been to the factory before. I mean, you guys have pretty much limited the previous games to like 5,500, between 500 CEs and 5,000 LEs.
00:37:42
Speaker
But this is an unlimited production. How are you guys going to keep up? Are you planning on scaling up? is it Or is it just, we're making potters until we don't make potters anymore? um I know what my vote is.
00:37:54
Speaker
My vote is keep making it forever. um And mainly because... this is going to be one of those titles that is going to maintain the popularity. People who come into pinball in four five years are going to say, wait, there's a Harry Potter machine and being able to get into that.
00:38:13
Speaker
and And I'm going to piggyback with Josh's question. So it's, it's limited, but not completely unlimited. Like for the CE, you guys are setting it up. So everybody who wants one within a certain timeframe, can you get one?
00:38:29
Speaker
I think that's genius because there doesn't seem to be a feeding frenzy of, Hey, I need to get one of these limited, a hundred or two 50 or something like that. It allows people to get the model of game they want as long as they're willing to, okay, this is the one I'm going to commit to.
00:38:47
Speaker
They can get that. I think it's genius. i I love that approach, but I'm going to throw it back to you so you can tell me more about the, ah about the division of the line and, and what is, what people need to do if they want this.
00:39:03
Speaker
Right. So our assembly line and the way that kind of this entire factory has been laid out and designed and the industrial engineering that goes behind laying out an assembly line is that it's very scalable, right? We have stations that workers, um normally occupy.
00:39:21
Speaker
we have stations where a, where a worker would do two, right? They'd do station three and station four, and they'd spend 15 minutes on this station and then 15 minutes on that station. And that way they're, they're working through their stations.
00:39:35
Speaker
We can easily drop people in so that we can output more games. We have a smaller assembly line where we could staff up and build more of these games.
00:39:49
Speaker
And the demand is there where we are growing our factory, where we are adding more people um to get these games built faster and still with the quality that we require all of our games to go out the door with.
00:40:05
Speaker
So scalability is really important um for all areas of the factory, right? Our cabinet line is scalable, our back box line, sub assembly, main play field, mating, testing, final testing, like all of that has multiple stations where sometimes those stations are, i you know, one person works two stations.
00:40:29
Speaker
But when the need arises, when we first launch a game or when we have unprecedented demand, we push more more employees into those stations and and are able to build faster.
00:40:46
Speaker
Can you tell me about the decision on the art package? so So if people like the like like the movie assets, and and they're going to choose the arcade or the wizard edition.
00:40:58
Speaker
Now tell me about the collector's edition, because it seems that you're going more in the book art package. If you're going with the collection with the collector's edition, because it's, it's hand-drawn art. It's not ah pictures from the movie, um which I, I really like. I think it look it looks, it gives it a distinct look and it feels a little more.
00:41:22
Speaker
I'm into the books as opposed to the movies. But why don't you tell me a little more about the philosophy on the art package? So the collector's edition art package was drawn by a group of graphic artists known as MinaLima.
00:41:37
Speaker
And yes, MinaLima, since twenty 2020 has released three of the Potter books in a fully illustrated with included paper craft um designs.
00:41:50
Speaker
They have like fold out movable objects like Marauder's Map where the feet move as you slide a piece of of this paper craft up and down. But the way MinaLima got started, and everyone who's ever seen a Potter film knows MinaLima's art. They just don't know they do.
00:42:12
Speaker
MinaLima is the graphic arts team behind every single Potter film ever made, including the Fantastic Beasts series. So every piece of graphical art you see in the films was designed by Team MinaLima.
00:42:28
Speaker
So what that means is the candy boxes and the banners that hang in the school and the wanted posters and the storefronts and all of the graphical arts you see in every film were designed by Eduardo and Mira, um, Team Minolima.
00:42:48
Speaker
They are the movie artists, but they've gone and they've also made art for books. Um, I, approached them because of their level of skill and their involvement and their adoration by the Potter fandom.
00:43:07
Speaker
I asked them to create me an art package that wasn't solely focused on the character art, but more the objects and items of interest in the a in the different movies.
00:43:22
Speaker
and to tell the story of the movies through the objects by going around the cabinet starting the lower left hand corner movie one and then movie two is on the left side of the near the back of the game movie three is the left back box movie four five six is the right hand side of the cabinet and and then movie seven and eight is the right side back box so they took all of these components and objects and items of interest and creatures and they illustrated all of those to create a cohesive story of Harry Potter movies one through eight in the art package.
00:44:01
Speaker
The treatment of the art, meaning like the physical treatment using foil, using a matted printing process with spot glossing different elements of it. It really adds some of that mystique of it does have a certain book style um like embossing. It almost feels like when you see it doesn't always come across in video.
00:44:29
Speaker
Um, but in person, the gold, the way it looks is it's pretty incredible. Um, it definitely appeals more. And I will agree with this. It appeals to the Harry Potter fans, uh, more so than the casual movie Harry Potter fans, right? They, the Harry Potter, the hardcore Harry Potter fans know who Eduardo and Mira are.
00:44:53
Speaker
Um, when. So back in back in May, there was a new theme park that opened in Orlando, the new ah Universal Epic Universe.
00:45:06
Speaker
And there's a Harry Potter world there, which is like the 1900s Paris. um Eduardo and Mira are the i team that created all of the art you see in the theme park.
00:45:20
Speaker
everything you walk past the posters and the storefronts and inside the the mosaics and the ceiling artwork everywhere is all Eduardo and Mira's art and their team of course they are the directors of MinaLima now they used to be the only artist but they've grown their team quite a bit MinaLima are the ones who created all of that artwork there and i am lucky enough that they invited me To this VIP opening of Universal Epic Universe.
00:45:56
Speaker
And I got to experience the Harry Potter Park with them as they experienced it for the first time. And they couldn't walk five feet without someone stopping them for selfies or signatures or conversation. Because they are the rock stars of the Harry Potter world.
00:46:16
Speaker
I mean, it was... It was astounding to see how well-loved and received they are by the Potter community and walking through the universe that they helped build was truly inspirational.
00:46:28
Speaker
It was really cool to see. um So I know them being part of this game was the right decision.
00:46:39
Speaker
And they made an art package that is not what you see on every other pinball machine. But I think it's a work of art that's going to be hard to beat. It truly is a collector's edition artwork.
00:46:51
Speaker
it It's amazing. And what's cool is like we've been talking about this for almost an hour now. Like you' you've had the impression. It's and put an impression on your life. It's almost came full circle, right? Now you've left your impression on the wizarding world as well.
00:47:04
Speaker
yeah think Are they going to put one of these at Universal or whatnot? Are any of these games going out on location like that? They, so a lot of the staff was there that night and they're like, yeah, we're definitely getting one of these in the park, even if it's in our private back room where we could have it.
00:47:20
Speaker
But there are arcades at universal. um We are in discussions with the operators that run those arcades, making sure that, you know, such an iconic universal um intellectual property should be represented in their arcades. And let's make sure we get games there and so people can experience them and see them.
00:47:41
Speaker
Definitely. Now you've gone back to the three model option. However, there seems to be very little play differences between all three.
00:47:52
Speaker
So why don't you lead me through, a by the way, I think that's the right decision because that's that it makes it, it makes Jersey Jack pinball more accessible to the the home collector who doesn't happen to be the elite collector.
00:48:10
Speaker
I love that it it gives people, especially something so iconic as Harry Potter, the the concern that I had originally is that this is going to be so expensive. This is going to be ah you know cost prohibitive for many of the fans who have this.
00:48:25
Speaker
But you you actually went the different way. So why don't you talk to me about bringing back the arcade edition, but also keeping the playability the same between arcade wizard and collectors.
00:48:37
Speaker
I mean, you hit the nail on the head there, Scott. a I didn't want a Harry Potter game that could only be played by pinball elite and only be paid played by millionaires who can see a game and and can buy it no questions asked. right I think about me friends of mine, family members of mine that are not independently wealthy, that a pinball machine $10,000 is a significant investment of their income.
00:49:13
Speaker
And when you you know think about the story of Potter, and it's a kid who doesn't have... a great home life and a lot of people connect connected to that.
00:49:27
Speaker
um The idea of of making it only available to the elite or the wealthy um and and cutting out people who couldn't afford the game was not something that I wanted to do.
00:49:42
Speaker
So I wanted there to be lower cost model, $10,000 model so that
00:49:51
Speaker
people could put this in their house, right? $15,000 is exceptionally expensive. $10,000 is also expensive. But what could we not include that could lower our bill of materials enough that that game would still be good for our company?
00:50:12
Speaker
um The other big push behind that was to get our games into operated arcades, right? Operators straight up look at cost versus real estate versus return on investment.
00:50:26
Speaker
And when you can buy a competitor's game, you know, for $5,000 less than our game, that's a tough sell to an operator. But now when it's like, well, this is the biggest IP you're ever going to see.
00:50:39
Speaker
And when it comes down to it, it's not much more expensive then the competitor's games. Why wouldn't you put one in your arcade? You know it's going to earn. And it's it has all of the stuff that makes the game great.
00:50:57
Speaker
And what's left on the table are art things that an arcade doesn't care about anyways. So get the game in the door. Let people play it. Let them experience it.
00:51:10
Speaker
And show operators that Jersey Jack Games will earn on location. Well, and realistically, a $300 difference between competitors mid-tier versus your guys' bottom tier. And it's it's just as packed as a mid-tier and stuff like that.
00:51:23
Speaker
It's an easy sell. And it's it's Harry Potter. Like you said, you get it in the door, they're going to make that $300 in the first week. Like, it's not. Oh, yeah. Easily. Right. it's interesting because even for me, and i I do have some some higher level games. But I've also, you know I'm cost sensitive to figure out what what I want to put in my house.
00:51:43
Speaker
When it first came out, my gut reaction is, oh, okay, maybe i'll just maybe maybe I'll just get the arcade you know because it has the same playability. Looking at it, I'm like, well, maybe I should go for the... it So it it it does actually motivate me as ah as a collector to say, hey, i right now i am I'm debating between the the wizard and the collectors because it seems... And in I don't think you can go wrong. that's the That's the beautiful part of the way you've set it up that This was my my criticism of some other some other pinball releases where one is so much superior and also exclusive.
00:52:25
Speaker
The way that you have it set up, I like that you can say, actually, it depends it really depends on which way you're going to go. But really, you are going to be made whole on all three editions.
00:52:37
Speaker
Because the bottom line is the biggest thing people are going to see is the play field and making sure it's consistent between the plays. That is actually the the sweet spot of being able to say, hey, are you in it for $10,000? Are you into it for $15,000 or $12,000?
00:52:54
Speaker
Either way, you're going to get a solid machine that doesn't feel like you're you're missing out on the playability aspect of it. Right. Yep.
00:53:07
Speaker
I got to say, Eric, it is amazing that what your you and your team has put together with this. i was just counting on Pinside, and they don't ever get everyone that's involved, but there's 18 people directly involved with this.
00:53:18
Speaker
Legends like yourself, David Phil on sound. i would argue I'll argue to that. Gameplay is key, right? Software is awesome, but sound. Like sound like you said in the featurette, you can be sitting across the bar, having a beer, and here's someone playing in the game and know exactly what they're doing.
00:53:35
Speaker
and the moment they're having right then because of sound. And I think David Thiel, he did an amazing job with you on Pirates. And to bring him back for this, I think, was was genius. Because, I mean, even like Jerry Thompson, who sat at Expo last year, he has figured out some amazing things and helped progress pinball in a way with sound that was just amazing. And and he's he's a legend, hands down, right?
00:53:59
Speaker
And just John Paul DeWin doing his stuff. It just... You have so many great names on this title. um Yeah, you guys threw the kitchen sink at this and everything else.
00:54:10
Speaker
So congratulations. It's a congratulation really great team to work with. And everyone, you know, I felt like there was never a time when anyone on the team said, I don't i don't think it's worth it or I can't make that happen. Everyone's like, yeah, and then what you know what else can I put in? What else can I put into this where I can get my fingerprints on this and make it you know pour a little bit of extra.
00:54:34
Speaker
Tell me the window that people have if they want to get in on the CE ordering window. Tell me how long that is and and what's the best way for people to do it. and Obviously ordering from Zach and Nicole, but there there are other ways too.
00:54:48
Speaker
The premier dealer. Yeah, exactly. Yes. um Our distributors are taking orders now. um These are going to be made to order for a specific for a time period um and we have not announced when that time period will end but the long and short of it is I want anyone who wants a CE to be able to get a CE and I don't want them to have to pay more than $15,000 to get it and that was what's happened on a lot of games over the past
00:55:25
Speaker
10 years or so, right, you'd have such a limited supply of the high-end game that you'd have people who don't give shit about pinball buying these things just to flip them. And that just, you know.
00:55:38
Speaker
it It hurts. It makes me a bit frustrated. Yes. Well, the challenge is, because and this is what I've always argued, it's the same if there is a margin that's available for the secondary market, then it makes sense for,
00:55:52
Speaker
for the company to make it available to as many people as possible at that, at that price, because that basically eliminates the secondary profiteers, the war profiteers.
00:56:06
Speaker
And this allows people to say, Hey, this is the price we can get it and you can get that in. So, so right now it is available, which is great because in, in many, okay. In great pinball machines, in great movies, um,
00:56:23
Speaker
they're they actually grow from week to week. In an average movie, a lot of times, the first week, it's really hot and then it then it cools off. It's significant that way.
00:56:34
Speaker
As people get their hands on these machines, I'm anticipating that they're going to get their hands on them and play them and then say, ooh, wait. um Okay, now I need to make a decision. Which which option am I going to have? And so they actually they they at least have some time that they don't feel like they need to you know immediately...
00:56:53
Speaker
regret their decision that they've made. They they have a little bit of time to get their hands on the machine.
00:57:01
Speaker
So Eric, I got to ask one final question before we start wrapping this up. You know, there's the infamous ah story with you talking to slash and the, you know, Paul McCartney story, right?
00:57:12
Speaker
Is there any, there any cool stories that you have with, with Harry Potter where it was just like something that stood out that, that comes to mind when you were making this game?
00:57:23
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, for me, that that pinch me moment was when I reached out to MinaLima, when I, you know, sent them a message. And we'll be we'll be putting out some content in the next couple weeks where, you know, I asked the question to them on on camera. They came here and they sat in front of this stage and they they got to tour the factory and all that.
00:57:49
Speaker
ah But I asked them how they felt when they got a random email from some crazy American pinball designer asking them to be a part of it.
00:58:01
Speaker
And they responded in the best way. they They responded such that we could feel the passion you had for what you do. And it aligns with the passion we have for what we do.
00:58:14
Speaker
And it really felt like that's when it really clicked that creative people that that care so much about what they do. When they can get together, they can make something better than the sum of its parts.
00:58:28
Speaker
And I really feel that's what happened with this game.
00:58:33
Speaker
I'm excited to play this. where When's the next time they can play this? What's the next show you guys are heading to? We are taking a dozen games, Southern Fried, ah which is June 20th. That's 11. Oh, crap. That's 11 days.
00:58:45
Speaker
All right. I guess more to do. um um, yeah, yeah. it ruined your day yeah yeah know You're not getting any sleep under the staircase anytime soon. Yeah. No. Um, and then, you know, you can go to your local distributor and you can put up games right now.
00:59:02
Speaker
Like I said, almost every distributor in the world has a collector's edition on their showroom floor. So you can find your local distributor, um,
00:59:15
Speaker
go over there and play it and reach out to me and let me know what you think. And, you know, I've gotten so many positive messages over the past couple days of people who were so excited about this and how there their significant other or their kids are are really excited about this game and they can't wait to play it together as a family. And that's one of those, you know, I'm really lucky sometimes.
00:59:45
Speaker
for what I get paid to do. Like I get paid to make a game. And then the icing on top is people tell me how much they love the game and what it means to them and what it means to their family. And that's a very rewarding part of this job.
01:00:02
Speaker
Well, we, we certainly are excited for it and we can feel that Jersey Jack definitely does not hold back on being able to put out the best version of their product, which is so great.
01:00:13
Speaker
Now you said that they're you're actually getting collector's editions out earlier than you have for previous releases on this. And so if people want to jump in and get a collector's edition, they're not going to have to wait. ah Well, okay.
01:00:26
Speaker
They don't have to wait until the end of the run. yeah you're You're going to be simultaneously manufacturing all three. And so people are going to be able to get a hold of this, which is great because if people want the the highest quality option, they they don't want to wait. They they want it now. Right.
01:00:44
Speaker
Right. Yep. Speaking, if you want people to message you, Eric, how do you want them to message you after they've played your amazing game? Um, generally I can be sent messages on Facebook.
01:00:55
Speaker
Um, and then, you know, if you reach out to Jersey Jack on Facebook, I can get those messages as well. Um,
01:01:05
Speaker
Talk to me at a show, you know, come up and say hi introduce yourself. I love meeting new members of community, old members of the community. um I'm trying to go to as many shows as possible um all over the world so that I can meet fans and just talk about pinball and and how fun it is and what a wild ride this has been.
01:01:28
Speaker
I got a laugh too. Every time we're talking, someone walks up because they know you like to have a beer, right? so They all want to have a beer with you. So so if if you have to be picky, which beer are requesting if if someone walks with one?
01:01:41
Speaker
Man, whatever beer it is, just any beer that's cold is good for me. Generally, however, there are, you know, generally sour ales are better better when they're slightly warmer or room temperature. They had to have more flavor.
01:01:55
Speaker
I am i am really into beer, really into craft beer, right? I don't generally drink beer to get hammered. I drink beer for the flavor.
01:02:06
Speaker
So I love all types. I love trying local beers wherever I'm at. And yeah, if you want to come in and share a beer with me, you know, by all means, I'm i'm happy to have a beer and talk pinball.
01:02:20
Speaker
That's awesome. If you want to get ahold of us, we are LoserKidPinballPodcast at gmail.com. Get ahold of us on all the socials. at loser kid pinball. That's YouTube, Facebook, all that jazz.
01:02:31
Speaker
If you want some favors of silver ball swag, silver ballswag.com slash loser kid. Also, like we said earlier, if you want to help support us on patron, you're more than welcome to do that. And we do so cool stuff. Like you get to ask questions to Eric, or you get to chill with us on media days or stuff like that.
01:02:45
Speaker
Scott, give us our final words. Okay. Definitely go out, play Harry Potter. And I'm curious to see which, which one our fans are going to be ordering because i really I'm kind of, I'm torn between wizard and the collector. So, so reach out, tell me what you're going to get. And it's a great release. Congrats, Eric. And thanks again for listening.