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The Spirit of Excellence, High Agency and Shooting for Heaven with Joy David
482 Plays1 year ago
In this episode, Bukola catches up with Joy David who shares her journey from growing up without many privileges to now creating and designing a life of excellence. Joy studied English Language at Obafemi Awolowo University and graduated with a first class. She transitioned into product management after leaving school and had a full ride scholarship from Standard Bank to study Management of Information System and Digital Innovation at London School of Economics where she graduated with a distinction. She now works as a Product Manager at GlobalCap. She loves travelling and is big on execution.
This episode is not one to miss.
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Transcript
Pursuing Ambitions with Urgency
00:00:06
Speaker
It's knowing what you want, right? And then going after it, as though the world was going to burn down the next day. I've always believed in reaching for the sky. If I reach in for heaven, if you don't reach heaven, you'll get to the sky.
Rejection and Scholarship Success
00:00:21
Speaker
And then I woke up the next day to a rejection from Chivney. And some months down the line, I heard that I'd gone to the Standard Bank of scholarship.
Community Engagement and Updates
00:00:37
Speaker
Hi people, I hope you're doing very well today. Quick updates before I introduce our guest. If you're not signed up to our mailing list, you're obviously, obviously missing out on so many things. And we've just sent out a July newsletter to the people on the list. And a couple of other things that we'll be doing in the future would get to the mailing list guys first. So do yourself a favor and join the mailing list.
Introducing Joy David Uluwamaewa
00:01:04
Speaker
Secondly,
00:01:05
Speaker
If you have any questions, dilemma, quandary, conundrum about anything that has to do with your career, progression, productivity, living life in your 20s, how to network better with people, build relationships, leave us a note in the link that has been attached to the show note of this episode. The reason I'm asking this is because I know that
00:01:34
Speaker
There are a lot of things that we can do together as a community to help with providing useful knowledge and resources that can boost our group process. And so do send your questions through that link and we'll be addressing them as seen.
Joy's Educational and Career Journey
00:01:50
Speaker
And if there is anything that I do not have an answer to, I will seek wisdom from people that I know would be able to provide.
00:01:58
Speaker
we're all learning and growing together, that's the gist. So in today's episode, I have Joy David Uluwamaewa. Joy is just such an amazing human. Let me share this story behind how I discovered Joy. So a random afternoon on Instagram, one of our gradients girlies, Ibaidae, and shout out to you for doing this.
00:02:23
Speaker
shared with us Joy's profile and said that she would love to have Joy on the podcast because she thinks that Joy's story is moving and is very relatable to her as a young person and she would like to hear the story behind Joy's story. And so I went on LinkedIn to look for Joy, texted her and told her that let's do this. And now we have her on the podcast.
00:02:48
Speaker
So the gist here is if you guys have anybody that you think would be a perfect guest on the podcast, then please send in your recommendations. You can send it via Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, wherever you see me or gradients. You can always just barrage us with your guest recommendations.
00:03:09
Speaker
Back to Joy. Joy studied at Obafemi Awolo University. She studied English and graduated with a distinction in first class at Obafemi Awolo University. She went on to then build a career in product management. And then in 2020, she got a full rights scholarship from standard charts to study management information system and digital innovation at London School of Economics
00:03:37
Speaker
And she graduated with a first class, a distinction. So we can see from Joy's story that she is an unrelenting hard worker, an unrelenting excellent spirit. And just even seeing how she's been able to navigate herself from the arts to product management, which is also kind of a mix of arts and science and tech and amazing world views on execution
00:04:06
Speaker
having own relenting focus and having high agency of your destiny is one to listen to so get ready to have a full ride and like i always say sit back and let's dive in
00:04:21
Speaker
The Gross Podcast is a space where we share the real stories behind the stories. We take you behind the scenes of the success stories you read and see online. We lift the veil and ask the questions that no one else is asking. So expand your mind and break the limits that society, and quite frankly yourself, have placed on it.
00:04:44
Speaker
And all these is to get you to realize that your version of success is attainable for you too. This episode is one that I am just very happy about because the person that we have on today is someone that was recommended to us.
Joy's Travel Experiences and Personal Growth
00:05:01
Speaker
by one of our Gradient Girlies. And I always like when people actively participate in getting guest on to the podcast. It shows that they're looking out to see people that inspired them. And Joy David is an iconic inspiration. I went on a LinkedIn after one of our Girlies, it by day,
00:05:25
Speaker
reached out to me and said that she's officially begging for us to have Joy. And I was like, oh, let me just go through Joy's profile to see if I'd like to have her on the podcast. And I was like, yes, yes, yes. This is somebody that I'd love to have on the podcast. So I'm very excited to host this podcast episode with her because just even looking at her career journey, all of the transitions that she's made, all of the things that she's done academically and even professionally,
00:05:54
Speaker
I know there's a lot that she would be able to share today that would inspire even if it's just one person. So before we start the podcast, I'd like to ask Joy how she's been. There's been a lot of things that she's been up to. I stalked her on Twitter yesterday and I saw that she's been touring all over Europe. There was one thing that you posted. You said your mom can understand how you were in Berlin and now you're in Barcelona and now you're in Berlin.
00:06:24
Speaker
You're living the life that we all want to live. So how are things being on your end? Thank you, Bukala. Thank you for the introduction. Things have been good. I travel a lot because first time in a long distance relationship, I think that's one thing that helps me to travel a lot. So it's like we always have to work things out to be in the same place at some particular time. So that's one of the reasons why I travel a lot.
00:06:51
Speaker
Not that I just like to travel, even though I do like to travel, but that's like a main factor in why I travel a lot. Currently in Berlin, I'll be spending the, I'll be spending July in Europe, so Berlin, Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Munich, and then before I go back to London. So yeah, that's my itinerary for the month. Aw, that's so cute. That's so cute. Also, like, I actually want to know, cause you've mentioned that you,
00:07:18
Speaker
you travel a lot. So is it just around Europe? Yeah, to be honest, for now, it's just been Europe, like Europe and Balkan Island. So Albania, Montenegro. That's been it for now. But this year I'm going to, I think I'll be going to Morocco this year. And
00:07:37
Speaker
I'm trying to also get a U.S. visa to see if I can start exploring. Because you know when you have a U.S. visa, you can explore more areas. So you can't go to like the U.S., you can't go to South America. There's so many other places you can go to U.S. visa. So I'm looking to get that as I can from next year. I also want to explore Asia. There's so many places I want to go to. But again, I'm bound by my Nigerian passports.
Roots of Academic Motivation
00:08:00
Speaker
Yeah, I can totally relate. I can totally relate. And for someone like me, I didn't grow up with, I didn't grow up traveling. You know, there were all these girls who, their parents would take them for vacations in the UK and all of that. Like I didn't have any of that. The first time I actually traveled out of Nigeria was to come to the United Kingdom. Same. Yeah. Yeah.
00:08:22
Speaker
I think that's why traveling is in our body. Yes, I mean, my first time on a flight ever was in 2019, where I went on a quick trip to Abuja. And that was like, that was the only flight I had taken. If I left Nigeria, I took a few flights to Nigeria, first on a leisure trip, and then on business trips, I think two business trips that required me to travel to Abuja was three flights. But those were like the only flights I had taken. My first time out of Nigeria,
00:08:49
Speaker
on an international flight was because I was coming for my master's in the UK. So, um, I think being, yes, seeing what is available to me, even with the UK passport and then share again, besides I'm so hard to get. I think that's, that always motivates me to want to travel because I didn't grow up having the opportunity. So I have it. I'm trying to maximize it to the fullest. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. So maximizing. So I think I'm going to get a little bit more serious. Yeah. And
00:09:19
Speaker
Thank you comes to the nature of my job as an organizational psychologist in training. I love to take my guests back in time to when they were kids, to appeal some of the experiences, the key moments or remarkable things that happened to them as children that shaped them to become the person that they had today. So my question to you is what were some of the things that you were supposed to
00:09:47
Speaker
that has made you this concopier of excellence that you are? That's a very good question. I think it's a combination of so many things. I can't exactly pinpoint to this moment. I know some people can pinpoint to a particular moment and say, okay, this is it. But growing up, I didn't grow up in a privileged background. We're close to dead poor. But I was born with this
00:10:13
Speaker
I didn't want, I didn't want to. I wanted to change the status quo, so to say. So my dad died when I was eight years old. Before he died, he had accelerated my education. So I kept skipping different classes. By eight, I was already in JS2. And at that point, after he died, it was just my mom, myself and my sister. And we knew that things were going to change significantly.
00:10:39
Speaker
And at that point, I just knew that I was going to be the one to bring my family out of where we were status-wise. And I think to explain how I felt that way, I had rich family members, so to say. So I was exposed to the other life, right? And I could see the stark difference between how they lived and how we were living. And sometimes I felt like,
00:11:06
Speaker
Some of the actions they took, I considered it condescending, and I really hated that. So I've always had that passion that I was going to take my family out of the status quo, that's one. Second, growing up, I've always been good academically, and I always wanted to be the best. I always wanted to be the best in everything. I've always wanted to be the best in everything I do, in everything I start. I want to do my best in it.
00:11:31
Speaker
I remember the one moment I remember with my little dad was when I was much younger, maybe four years old or five years old, even maybe younger. I remember this particular experience. I was sweeping the sitting room and then they were discussing my results in nausea or something, and I'd come sixth position. And they were saying, oh, that's not such a bad result. And then I started crying because I felt, why exactly would I have a sixth position? And then after that, from my primary school till I finished secondary school,
00:12:01
Speaker
I ensured I always came first position in all the classes. So that's been it really. I knew academics was the way for me to take my family out of this other school. I'd always believed in that. Seeing where my family was, trying to be excellent academically. And then books, I've always read a lot. So a lot of fiction. So seeing what was out there in the world. So fiction opened my eyes to so many things, what was possible.
00:12:23
Speaker
to what could happen if you dedicate yourself to excellence. So all of that, like I'll say, the combination of so many things, so many factors that has led me to where I am today. Wow, that was hugely inspiring to hear. And I know somebody listening could just say, oh, I can relate to that. And it's even very surprising to see that in terms of academics, you were internally driven and motivated. For most people, they will tell you that, oh, my dad was very
00:12:53
Speaker
had on on making me get first position in school. Like the reason I was first in school was because my mom expected it and I wanted to please her so that's why I did that. So it's actually quite hard I would say to find someone who at that very young age has just been internally driven to succeed and
00:13:17
Speaker
Yeah, I'm glad that you actually shared that. So there were just so many things that I jotted down from your story. And one thing that you mentioned was I always wanted to be the best at things that I did. And it's clear from all the things that you've done from, you know, LSE, even at Abafemi Awologo University, even right now working as a product manager, like even the switch from English language
00:13:47
Speaker
to product management, all of those things shows that this is somebody that's actually taking their career and their journey personally. Like you just told yourself, I want to excel. Yeah. And it's nice to see that you had that perception and the view of yourself even from childhood. Right. Yes. So I think they'll like to then go to a Bafami Awolo University. And like I mentioned, you studied English language in school.
00:14:17
Speaker
I had a couple of friends in uni lab who studied English and they will tell me that it's easier for, and I will find the best of the eye of a needle than for you to get a first class in English. And to find somebody that has actually done it is inspiring. And it just made me see differently, really. So I'd like to know what were some of the things that you did differently in school that made you stand out academically. And if you can also share some of the things that you were involved in,
00:14:45
Speaker
that I had nothing to do with boys, because I know that as human beings, we blend of different things. So even though you are academically inclined and driven, I'm sure based on your Twitter, you seem like an ex-girl. So share with us some of those things that happened in university. OK.
00:15:06
Speaker
Thanks, Bukolau. When I got into OU, again, to study English, one
Balancing Academics and Social Life
00:15:11
Speaker
of the first things they all, like, all your senior colleagues would tell you is just try to get it to one. Some lecturers had sworn that no one was going to graduate first class in the department. And at the time when I was in year one, no one had actually graduated with the first class in the history of the department in OU, a history span in over 50 something years, I guess. And no one had graduated with the first class. So that was a challenge to me.
00:15:32
Speaker
So I'm very competitive and I like challenges like that. So I saw then that I was going to graduate first class. So that was my motivation.
00:15:45
Speaker
I think one of the things, I can't really say I did this, I did that, that helped me to graduate with the first class. But yes, I was really dedicated to the academics. I tried, I would ensure that I attended classes, I understood, I read far and wide, not just what the lecturers provided, I would try to understand and also read other resources. During the exam period, I would
00:16:08
Speaker
And I think that's also going to LS. I think that's what helped me succeed in LS is the fact that even back in early 90s, I was writing a particular standard for exams that maybe I didn't need to go that far. So that was it. And then beyond academics, like I said, I didn't join. I don't know if I was such a regret of mine because I also have a one-tracked mind. When I'm focused on getting something, I can be very narrow-minded in just having a narrow vision and focusing on that.
00:16:37
Speaker
So I didn't join other societies, I didn't join associations, like I said some of my friends do, I didn't do all of that. But some of the things I was involved in, like the young academics was, I did party a lot on campus. So I remember in year one, when I just got to OU, you know, I don't know if you're familiar with all these fresher parties.
00:16:56
Speaker
that they would run on campus to welcome the newbies. Yeah, yeah, very familiar. I was attending every one of them. So not just to offer my department, I would attend all that department, freshers' parties, all your companies were very big. So we had like places where we had new markets, we had some mini lounges clubs. I would visit those areas. And I remember in year one, there was some group of girls I wanted to roll with. There were the ones that were like, okay, this way,
00:17:21
Speaker
a few ways. The way we say that, the way the bookish girls, they did take me serious because they're like, this girl was coming to distract us because I was always partying. I didn't look like I was reading. I was only able to be confirmed to some of them when the first time results, first semester results came out. Second semester results came out. And I think second semester had a 5.0 CGPA. So that was when they started taking me serious and I could be confirmed to those kind of girls.
00:17:51
Speaker
That was it. I think the only thing I did beyond academics was try as much as possible to party here and there. And then I read a lot of novels. So for instance, I remember in year one, I remember one of my roommates saying she doesn't think I was going to pass my exam because during lecture, when some people were reading, for example, I was reading Harry Potter. So yeah. We're going to talk about books later because I would like you to share your recommendations on books that you think people should read.
00:18:20
Speaker
You've said a lot really. You mentioned something about writing that is standard that was higher than the bachelor's degree that you were studying. So where did you learn how to write? Like give us practical strategies and seeds that can help people to excel academically. Because I know obviously you're a natural and it's shown that you
00:18:47
Speaker
you said during exams you're reading novels and you'd still come out on the other side. There's some people that will struggle, some people would have to spend a lot of time studying and might still get the same result or maybe not even up to par. So as far as the natural flair for academics, like what were some of the other things
00:19:07
Speaker
that you did. Did you watch a new video that taught you how to study well or like what were things you did? Okay, in OU, before getting to OU, in secondary school again, I mentioned I was a very good student in secondary school, I had a very good English teacher and I remember
00:19:25
Speaker
even beyond our day-to-day secondary schoolwork, she would tell me preparation for our A, she would give me some topics and tell me to write about it, to write an essay on it. And this was not even part of my curriculum for the school, for my class, but she took an interest in me and she would tell me, write an essay on something, or write an essay, she would greet me, she would correct me. So I went to
00:19:47
Speaker
maybe not the best second school board. I had some really good shares that were really invested in us. So that helped. I started writing from that early age. And that's the first thing. And I think the second thing I mentioned, I really loved. I do think that when you read, you get exposed to how to structure your thinking. Because when you're following a story, like when you're following a particular plot, you get exposed to how to structure your logic, how to structure your logic in a way that captures people and gets your points across.
00:20:16
Speaker
So that was something that my red dividers had a natural affinity to do. So that's the second thing. And then the third thing is, I always, I think the third thing is self-awareness in academics is knowing where you are with each class. So knowing what you understand and what you don't.
00:20:34
Speaker
So I always tried to actually understand what was being thought. So for the articles, you know, federal universities, the lecturers aren't doing so much through impact on it to defend some cases. So I always tried to like commune with others. I mentioned trying my best to become friends with those people that I knew that were really booking clients as well. So I know we formed group discussions where
00:20:54
Speaker
I would ask questions. And I was really humble. I think I tried. I didn't know it. That's why I'm asking. So I would ask people questions, try to get different perspectives on exam questions that could come out. Before exams, every past question from say like 2000s to the year, I would have gone through everything and tried to see how to answer it if it's asked. And I think, for instance, the example I gave of me reading Harry Potter before exams,
00:21:24
Speaker
four to five days before that particular exam, you won't recognize me because I would look dead. So I did a lot of, especially in OU, I did a lot of crash reading. So I would already understand. So I didn't knew what I was going to rely on to the concept. So what I just needed to do was go to two different resources, try to get everything into my head before the exam. So I remember fainting sometimes on your campus during exam.
00:21:48
Speaker
Because I would read I could read like at a stretch that it is I could read like four days at a stretch morning after the nights I'm barely till anything just reading reading reading reading and then going to the example and then sleep afterwards So that's not a good habit, but that's that's something I did a lot on all you campus and then for some particular courses
00:22:10
Speaker
was this particular course stylistics that was quite difficult, the lecture was quite difficult as well, but then I was able to form a camaraderie with that particular lecturer and what I did was, due throughout the semester, I would take exam questions that had been asked, I would take literary texts and then I would analyze it and then I would write on it and then I would share with him
00:22:30
Speaker
And he would try to greet them and give feedback. And I was doing that every three days or every week. I would have something to submit to him every week throughout the semester. So by the time exam came around for that kind of course, I was already used to the way he asked questions. I was already used to what he expected. And I was able to provide those answers. And that brings me, I think, to the fourth point is expectations.
00:22:52
Speaker
I think that in academia, one of the things that really helped me is understanding expectations. What do a particular lecturer expect from their students? So for some lecturers, I knew from listening to them talk, I could understand this is what they expect to see when they read papers. These are some of the examples that they hold. Maybe in literature, maybe they like Greek mythologies or they liked this particular theory.
00:23:19
Speaker
So when I'm talking, when I'm writing exams, I'm making references to those things. So when you're writing exams, when you're writing tests, you also have to think that you are writing to someone. What does that person want to read? What's that person, what would grab that person's attention? So that's something I try to understand the expectations of different lecturers and writing that. Yeah, that was it. That's a master course for me, because I'm currently taking a part-time master's in organizational psychology
00:23:49
Speaker
And I have an essay to submit on the 10th of July. Like, yeah, I've just been all over the place. Well, now that you said, know what your lecturer is expecting, I have to go and look at all of the things the lecturer has said and see what you're looking at here. I started in January and our results came out. I had a distinction in one course and the second one I had a meet.
00:24:15
Speaker
60 something. So I'm like, no, I want all distinctions. Yeah. So that's the right mindset to think you want to get distinctions and everything. Yes, yes. Because especially the way that they agreed here on like, in Nigeria, where if you have 70, that's an A. Yeah, 70 is a mark. You should aim for 80 something because when you collate everything together,
00:24:42
Speaker
If you've had 70s and there may be some had been 60 something, you might not get a distinction, you know. So you have to aim for the IS mark possible. At least that's how they grade in my course. I don't know if it's the same with other, but is that what you had in LSE as well? Something similar. So you had like, so in LSE you needed, um, so I think I took about eight, seven courses. So you need to have distinctions in a certain number. You need to have 70.
Transition from English to Tech
00:25:07
Speaker
in a certain number of courses. And I had to have 70 in three courses, and then it composes distinction in my dissertation. So that was four, four distinctions out of seven courses to be able to graduate to the distinction overall. Oh, really? Like that's good. For us, they would collate all of the scores. So if you have a seventh, if you have say, six seventies, and then in the seventh course, you had 62,
00:25:35
Speaker
When you collate everything, you might have like a 68 point something distinction. Yeah. So it's like, I have to actually hit him for eighties to guarantee the distinction, which is just wild. But yeah, thanks for sharing that. Um, cause I feel like academic rights, especially in this part of the world is very different. The way I used to write in law in Nigeria and the expectations right now, especially when they say, oh, do all of these references, I'm like,
00:26:04
Speaker
God, you guys should just take my blood. But yeah, thank you so much for sharing that. Maybe after this call, I can come to your DM for more tips to see how I can improve my grades. But then going to LSE, and I was thinking maybe you studied something related to English or history or something in LSE. Really to find that you studied management, information,
00:26:31
Speaker
a system and digital innovation. I was like, how do they even correlate? Like these are two distinct things. You studied English in your undergraduates and in your master's you're studying something within the tech space. And not only did you study, you also had a distinction, you were excellent at it. So you know when someone is going to say like,
00:26:53
Speaker
or, you know, I have a natural flair for English, you know, that's the way I think. So that's why I was able to excel there, but I don't really like anything within that is very technical, but like you've shown that you can balance and even adjust to whatever is required of you. Like, like you said at the beginning, if I'm doing something, I always want to be excellent at it. I always want to put in my best and it shows because even in,
00:27:21
Speaker
a different field entirely from what you did in undergraduates. You still proved and showed that you, you know, you're the eight girl. So I'd like to hear about the transition.
00:27:35
Speaker
What was it that made you make up your mind that this is something that I want to do? And I know like just even going through your LinkedIn before you took that course, you had taken just very nano courses in different schools like Udacity and all of that. And you had also worked at Bankly as a product manager. So what informed the transition after school and how were you able to do that successfully?
00:28:02
Speaker
I remember when I was in year three, year four, he asked me what I wanted to do with my English degree when I was done. And I thought this was year four, you know, everyone's expected to already have plans. And I told him I don't know. I just knew I wanted to make money. That was my rest. Still today, he said he calls me evil girl that likes money.
00:28:25
Speaker
In year three, in year four, I started copywriting. So again, remember, like the kind of background I came from, I had a scholarship into OU. I don't think I mentioned this, but I had a scholarship from senior secondary school into university from LAPO organization. Everyone is familiar with LAPO, right? The loan organization. Yeah, loan shark. Yeah, so I had a scholarship from them, from secondary school to the end of my university. I think secondary school was receiving 60K, and in university I was receiving 100K, 150K there about every year.
00:28:56
Speaker
And for a federal university, that was enough to pay. But sometimes it wouldn't come on time or I'd have to use it to support mom back home. So I was in school for the most part without any resources coming from home. So I needed to find a way to make money and I went into copyrighting in year four. So that also, that began to expose me to industry. So I would write about different things. I would write for different magazines. I would write technical pieces as well. After university,
00:29:23
Speaker
I already told my mommy I was not going to stay with her. I stayed with my aunts in Maryland, and I got an office for myself in Sissyhope. Sissyhope is like a wee walk in Lagos, right? So I got an office for myself in Sissyhope where I would be there every morning, 6 a.m., and I would be there till 8 p.m. at night. I actually wouldn't lie to my aunts that I actually had a corporate job, because if she thought I was working for myself, she'd be like, so why am I leaving the house that early? So I would tell her I had money jagged over my neck.
00:29:49
Speaker
And I was, I was working for myself doing freelance copywriting. So in Sys2hope, Sys2hope is a tech space, is a tech hub. There's a lot of startups working there. There are a lot of organizations within that space. And that was actually where I got even more exposed to technology, right? I was already, I had already had a partner that was a software engineer. So I was already interested in technology, right? I tried my hands at coding, but it wasn't for me. So in Sys2hope, that was the first place I learned about products management. And
00:30:18
Speaker
What's what's interested me about program management was how it's it's the human face inside of technology in a way because you have to really tell all of humans. It's managing humans. It's also strategy.
00:30:28
Speaker
It's also you doing a lot of thinking. So you're trying to figure out what's people's problems, what are the opportunities, and how can you make money from those opportunities for the business. That's a simple way to describe product management. And that's, I was like, okay, with each thing I learned about product management, I was like, okay, this is me. I see myself here. And I took it off. I started learning resources. I could say at that point, I watch almost all the YouTube videos.
00:30:53
Speaker
At the time on YouTube, I bought product management. I joined communities, I joined product dive. So I think taking courses. And by the end of that year, I started sending out cold emails from companies. So the company, IQ, the first company I got my product management job.
00:31:09
Speaker
I sent an email to all the directors and CEO of the company, telling them why I think they needed me in the product management room in October 2019. And in January that year I had interview and I got the job after.
Scholarship Journey and Lessons
00:31:21
Speaker
So that was how I started into product management really. And then working at IQube. So at IQube I was exposed to a whole lot of things. I was working on projects with the Federal Ministry of Women Affairs in Nigeria.
00:31:33
Speaker
I worked on a project with the Ministry of Health when COVID hit. I had some projects with the United States Embassy. So during COVID, I developed a product before COVID that we transitioned to be like a COVID product. So there was a lot of interest in it around that time. So I was a daily product manager. I was supposed to join IQ. I was supposed to be an associate product manager. I mean, I was supposed to learn from someone. But I joined and I was daily product manager. So I had to obscure really, really fast.
00:32:00
Speaker
Right. And then during my time at IQ, again, product management, I knew I wanted to go for my master's, not because I was so academically inclined, to be fair, because master's, again, was another way for me to leave Nigeria and expose myself to better opportunities out there. So I'd always said it, that if I was going to do my master's, when I was not going to do this in Nigeria, so I was going to do this in an Ivy League organization.
00:32:25
Speaker
I've been interested in Ivy League since I was I was in psychology school in Padia without you that was seen outside of GOS. I've been interested in schools like Cambridge and Oxford so I knew I wanted to go to an Ivy League university and then I started looking at courses that were related again to product management which is what I was already doing so I was looking at courses. I went through all the universities in the UK
00:32:50
Speaker
And I think I should mention that I knew I couldn't afford to do a master's without this scholarship. Right. So I went through the scholarship route. I started from applying to Chevenin. That was like a whole process. And Chevenin requires that you have some particular university, that you apply to three universities with three courses. So that was how I went through all the UK universities that were under Chevenin. And then I, of course, I knew of LSC and I saw this particular course, right, Management of Information Systems and Digital Innovation.
00:33:19
Speaker
That was the most related to what I was doing in product management. And it was also at an Ivy League school. And the course is also written, I think, number two in the world. So I was like, OK, this is it. LSE was the only university I had applied to. So I remember I submitted my Chevenin application in October 2020 during the COVID year. And then in 2021, January, I submitted my LSE application. I submitted my LSE application, say,
00:33:47
Speaker
tonight, right? I paid the ETK application fee. And then I woke up the next day to a rejection from Chevenin. So it was like my world came crashing down in a way because I just paid application fee to LSE. And I knew that even if I get the admission, I wouldn't be able to afford it because I'd been rejected for Chevenin. Months down the line, LSE had a graduate fund going on. And I had people, again, that's another thing I want to mention is that you always need to know how to seek help. Tell people what you're doing because you would get assistance from
00:34:17
Speaker
So I've mentioned it to a few people about what I was doing, processing rejected from children. And I had someone I hold dear to my heart, Miss Kenny, who kept encouraging me. At that point, I'd given up. She kept encouraging me to apply to different scholarships, to apply to other schools. I didn't listen. I didn't apply to any other school, but from LSE. But then I listened to her and applied to LSE Graduate Fund.
00:34:37
Speaker
and I touched the essay. I mean, I was like, I've done so much work. Applying to Chevenin, I took four months of intense everyday work to apply to Chevenin. And I've done so much work on my Chevenin application essays. So I just used those same essays. I brought them together and then I submitted it for my LSE graduate fund application. And some months down the line, I heard I'd gotten standard bank scholarship. That was how I got into product management and then decided to go for my master's.
00:35:07
Speaker
came to LSC through the standard bank scholarship. Hmm. Wow. Like sometimes, you know, rejection is redirection. Shevni scholarship will require that when you're done with your master's, you come back to the country.
00:35:21
Speaker
Yeah, so God works in very wonderful ways. I'm very grateful to God. I owe everything I have right now, everything I'm going to have. I owe it to God. God has been really good to me. I remember growing up, one of my favorite verses in the Bible is, God is the father to the fatherless. So I know that God is fudging me. I know that he's directing my footsteps. Because really, I can't explain. And when I have conversations like this one, I'm on podcast.
00:35:48
Speaker
I sometimes struggle to explain some of the things I've done in such a short time. I mean, I'm just trying to write. So trying to explain some of the things I've done, I can't really point to this is exactly what I did or this is what I did. I mean, I worked really hard. I believe that I have the spirit of excellence. And I try to showcase that in everything I do. But I mean, I believe there are people doing even more than I am, right? So I believe it's just been good. The standard bank scholarship I got for LSC, I didn't apply to the standard bank scholarship directly.
00:36:18
Speaker
It was applying to the LSE's graduate fund.
Upskilling in Product Management
00:36:23
Speaker
Applying with that essay was optional, and then I decided since I'd already done so much work on travelling essays, I would just attach it anyway. I remember I applied, it was the close 29th of April 2021. I applied that day, that evening, some hours before it closed because I was not interested, I just felt I wasn't going to get anything. But just by virtue of applying with that essay, they sent that essay to organisations that felt what I'd said in that essay would impact them and
00:36:48
Speaker
I got, by virtue of that, I got the standard bank scholarship and such an amazing scholarship because I think my, the fund I got was about 50,000 pounds. It's covered my school fees to LSE. It's covered me living a good life in London throughout the year of my master. I didn't have to, I didn't have to walk throughout and it doesn't require me to go back to Nigeria. It's also like, we also have events. We have an alumni group of people that do really amazing. So it was, like you said, it was really a redirection from God.
00:37:19
Speaker
Yeah, somebody would tell me that God does not exist. Oh, please. You mentioned that you had gotten a space for yourself at CC Orb. I wanted to cut symbols, like let me just allow you to be done and then ask the question. So how does that even happen? Do you have to pay for this space?
00:37:36
Speaker
What is it like? It's for freelancers, I guess, and people interested in building startups to create. What is it about? You know WeWork. I from there, WeWork. Yes. Well, CCOB is just like WeWork, but in Nigeria. So they had companies that didn't have their fiscal offices that were working from there. They had startups that were working from there. And then they had freelancers, people who would just go in every day to work from there. They didn't want to work from home. Remote workers that would just go there and work from there.
00:38:05
Speaker
And then they had a monthly plan, just like a company, right? They had a monthly plan where depending on the number of persons you'd pay to assess their everyday model to Friday, right? And I was paying monthly for myself to go into socioeconomic work from there every day. So that was it. Okay. And do they have spaces in different parts of Lagos? So is it just one or one space? I think they, I don't know about now, I think they have, they will have over Africa, I think they have some Rwanda,
00:38:34
Speaker
I don't know how many you have in Lagos now, but the one I was accessing was one in Yaba. Yeah, the reason I mentioned this is because right now, like, remote work is the community thing in Africa. And so for anyone listening, if you're tired of just being at home working, you probably might want to take advantage of that. CCOB is not sponsoring. I just think it's a good idea. And seeing how it's shaped joys
00:38:59
Speaker
And she mentioned that she learned about products management in just being around the city or the environment. So if that's something that you think you would be beneficial to your growth and development, then key into it. Right. Yeah. Great. So there was one other thing that I mentioned. You said you had to upskill very fast because you were working at the space where you taught
00:39:26
Speaker
you would have to shadow someone and just learn very slow until you're able to pick things up. So, how did you then learn very fast? What were some of the strategies that you used that you think would be beneficial to someone that has to learn something quickly?
00:39:44
Speaker
There's something called Hi Agency by Shreyas Doshi, one of my favorite product management professionals. It's knowing what you want, right? And then growing after it's as though the world was going to burn down the next day, right? If you didn't get it that day. So that was what I did. So like I said, I would consume all
00:40:02
Speaker
resources I could find on YouTube. I was watching all the YouTube videos about product management. Product School is an organization that just people obscure product management professionals. Every day I would watch all their videos on YouTube. I would read their resources. I took some courses like the Udacity like you mentioned. I got a scholarship on Udacity and I took the Udacity Product Management on a degree. I took that. I took another course, Introduction to Product Management by Cole Mesa.
00:40:30
Speaker
on the Demi. I took that course and then I joined a lot of product management communities. One in particular that I was really active on is Product Dive by Tobio Tokitsi, another really great product management professional in Nigeria.
00:40:45
Speaker
So I was active part of the Product Dive community. They would have weekly AMA, Ask Many Things sessions where they would bring in product leaders. I would try to join those sessions. I would try to participate in the community. So that way, I was learning so much. Later down the line, and again, I remember the best way to learn product management is to actually do product management. So I was opportune to already be in an environment where I had to be doing so many things. So I was using some of what I'd learned. I was having to apply them to the situation I was in. So that also helped me up skill first.
00:41:16
Speaker
I'm down the line because of the work I was doing and the company had done so much again. The company agreed to sponsor me to take the product dive for product management course, which at that time I think was 150,000 in 2020. So I took that course, so it took about two months, I think.
00:41:33
Speaker
I took that course. So those were like the courses I took in product management. And that was how I was able to obscure really fast. That's very good. That's very good. And so I know that you had briefly mentioned what product management is. Can you explain it to a five year old?
00:41:51
Speaker
what is product management and what are some of the things that you'll be doing? Because even some people these days think that you need to study maybe computer science or something very technical to be able to understand it. So how would you explain it to someone that does not know it? That's a very, it's a simple question, but it's quite tough because product management is, product management is quite dynamic. It's practiced in different ways in different organizations. But what I would say is one, you don't need to know how to code
00:42:21
Speaker
to do product management. You don't need to have any computer science skills whatsoever to be able to become a product manager, which I don't. I don't have any of those skills. What product management is, is towards strategy and execution. Those are compasses that I'm going to try as much as I'm supposed to break it down to five years. Strategy is you knowing what to do. Imagine your mom has a business. So growing up, my mom had to shop a business.
00:42:50
Speaker
selling things, knowing the kind of goods that will sell to the people in that particular population, and telling your mommy to buy those goods. Strategy, that's a part of product management. Knowing what is going to move the business forward, and that will make the people that the business serves happy. So getting the business money, which is what every business wants, revenue, except the NGOs. Building products that gets business revenue, and make the customers of that business.
00:43:18
Speaker
happy, solves their needs, solve their problems. That's one part of product management, right? That's one part. The second part is execution. So now you know what will make your customers happy and will bring money into the organization. How do you build it, right? That's the part where you have to interact with so many people. Product management is also like a cross-functional rule, where you're interacting with so many parts of an organization. Because again, you don't know how to code as a product manager. You don't know how to design.
00:43:45
Speaker
for the most part, as a product manager. And these are skills that you need to build digital products. So now liasing with the software engineers, liasing with the designers, to now build out that particular product that you've concluded will get you what you want in terms of revenue and customer satisfaction. So that is product management.
00:44:05
Speaker
Yeah, I am the five-year-old and now I know what product management is. I doubt the five-year-old won't stop what I just said, but hopefully it won't happen in the five-year-old. No, I actually think they will. Even just explaining, oh, your mom has this shop and these are the goods that you already know, customize on. Yeah, I think, well, maybe a five-year-old would, but at least someone who
00:44:34
Speaker
doesn't know about product management or have an understanding now. And my link to DM me to ask many questions about product management. I'm very open to answering any questions. Oh, that's amazing. At the end of the podcast episode, you can also share where they can connect with you and all of that so that you're able to know where to DM you. So I wanted to say, so based on what you've said about product management, it then means that once a product has been created,
00:45:04
Speaker
The product market doesn't take you on to start marketing needs to target audience. Right. That's the product manager, you also liaison with the product. For instance, I'm building a product that I'm going to, it's going to induce the job, like for next week, for example, liaison with the marketing team, right? On how to market it. And it's like after, or like project manager, like project manager, where your job is done after it's built.
00:45:31
Speaker
The job continues because you have to maintain the product. You have to also like, if you are building in agile, where you are building one piece at a time, you continue building, you monitor for customer's reaction. So are they liking it? Are there problems? Are there bugs? You're also monitoring for that. You're also solving that. You're also iterating on the products you've built already to make it better, to serve money. They're looking at market opportunities that can also make that product better. So your job is never done as a product manager.
00:45:59
Speaker
in a nutshell. So you're involved in the life cycle of the product. Exactly, exactly. That's the word. You draw the life cycle of the product, you're involved in different ways. Wow, that's an interesting job. So if you guys are interested in product management, Joy has said that you can bombard her with your questions. You'll share our handle and our social media. What do you call it these days?
00:46:28
Speaker
She will share how you can connect with her, her bb pin. You know those days of Blackberry, I will share my bb pin with you. Right, right. We have so many, Instagram, WhatsApp.
00:46:45
Speaker
Definitely. Yeah, so, and you talked about scholarships.
Cultural Adjustments in London
00:46:51
Speaker
So what, because I know like even you get in your scholarship, it wasn't, it wasn't a scholarship, you got business story that you mentioned, it wasn't like you were actively seeking for it.
00:47:01
Speaker
Yeah, that Pascal scholarship. I think you know about it so much. Yes. But I'm sure you have done a lot of research on scholarships, how to position yourself well for scholarships. Right. What can you share from your experience that would be useful to our audience on scholarships?
00:47:20
Speaker
Let me think. So for instance, one of the things I'd done was I would know some of these people would organize like webinars. I remember there was this particular event where they brought in, a virtual event where they brought in some of the people in the UK and the US who had gotten
00:47:37
Speaker
who are schooling in those schools and hard-coding scholarships. I think it was the five key events that I paid for. So I was actively trying to learn from others. I would also message there are some people I knew that were also been involved in the process of trying to get a scholarship for a while. Some people like Noah, who is now in the US, Dennis Masters in the US, I would message him, try to learn from each other.
00:48:00
Speaker
So I think the point always is, whatever I'm doing, God always helps me to have the right people around me that would help me propel me to where I want to get to. Even from my undergrad, I mentioned trying to be with the right set of people, to coming out, product management. I had my partner, I had other people, I had a community. And then doing the point where I wanted a scholarship, I had different people I was talking to and interacting with that I was learning from.
00:48:27
Speaker
And they were pointing me to the right resources for me to get what I wanted. So I think that there's so many resources online about getting scholarships. And then there are the popular ones. There is the Chevlin Scholarship. There is the Commonwealth Scholarship. There's the Mastercard Scholarship.
00:48:44
Speaker
And then there are some school-based scholarships as well. So I knew what I wanted and I tried to apply. And I don't think I'm the most... For some people, there are strategies to apply to all scholarships. I honestly don't think sometimes I'm the most hardworking person. I think that, like I mentioned, I can't have a narrow vision. So I decided I wanted to apply for Chevenin. I thought Chevenin was the one. So I focused all my energy on Chevenin.
00:49:14
Speaker
And really that was, that was what I did. I focused on my NAD on Shavening and I mentioned how hard I worked on my champion essays. So there was this other person again that I knew was into helping people write essays and get scholarships that became a friend. He runs an organization in Nigeria, I think pro rights. So what I, what he, he helped me so well that I wrote my first draft of my essays. I'm from August to October, 2020. We're having calls almost every day.
00:49:43
Speaker
that would have some calls that run eight hours long, four hours long, into the night, writing and rewriting and rewriting the Chevening essays, understanding what it is that they were looking for, what it is that any school would be looking for to read about me, telling my story without capturing the attention and get what I wanted. So I worked really hard on the Chevening essays. And there's also this YouTube video by Ann Amuta, where she talks about writing essays for scholarships and admissions.
00:50:13
Speaker
I also use that essay to structure my LSE essay, and then the essay I used to apply for the Graduate Fund LSE. So those were the strategies I used to be fair, to be honest. Yeah, that's a very good one. And the YouTube video, I'll look for it and link it to the show notes of this episode, so anyone that's interested. I'll just look for that one too. Was this particular one I really liked? So I'll send it to you.
00:50:42
Speaker
Yeah, thank you. So moving on to now being a London needs girl. How was moving to London my career? Because I know you moved for studies, but now you're working in London, so you're pretty much a British girl. A British girl in equity. Love it.
00:51:09
Speaker
Sounds so nice in theory. Well, moving to London, it was exciting. I stayed in a student accommodation, LS student accommodation, and it was in a pretty great place. I was just about three minutes away from Tower Bridge.
00:51:25
Speaker
So it was a pretty great location. Coming to London as well, some of my friends at the time, people like Olamide and Mimi, some of my very close friends, they also moved to London. For instance, Olamide, she moved to the UK some days before I did, so we came around the same time. And Mimi had been here months before I came. So I had, again, I had a community here, and I also made friends, Nigerian friends,
00:51:48
Speaker
at the LSE. So there was someone else who had gone to the standard bank scholarship right from Nigeria. So we even met some in Nigeria some months before we would came to the UK. So her name is LSE, right. She was studying management and strategy.
00:52:02
Speaker
So I was friends with her. She became a part of my community. I had Dara. Dara was studying law at LSC as well. She was in the same accommodation as I was. So she became my friend. I had Douglas, Echevenin's color, who was studying LSHM, who was studying this health policy. So he became a part of my community. I had Olive, who I'd met in Nigeria as well, booking for the LSC together. She was studying accounting at LSC. So I had a community of people in LSC and people outside of LSC.
00:52:32
Speaker
that helped me to acclimatise Is It London? I mean, I always ask people ask me, oh, do you have any family member here? And I don't, I have, no, even my partner is not based in the UK. So having a community of people really, really helped me throughout my studies in London and even now. And were there any things that shocked you? Were there any things that you saw that you were like, oh my God, this seems different.
00:53:02
Speaker
And how were you able to adjust? Because I'll give myself as an example. When I came into the UK to work at the Bank of America, I came straight to Chester, which is very far from London. It's up north and a very wide area. And then I came at the heat of lockdown. So it meant that I was locked down. Yeah. And I only had my flatmates, who was a guy. Wow.
00:53:32
Speaker
And it was kind of miserable, honestly. But also, it wasn't too bad because I'm an indoor girl. But I just felt like it would have been a different experience if maybe I'd come straight to London. But then also, when I went out for the first time to the shops, I was like, why do the houses look like toys? They just look so different. I was like, this looks like a toy.
00:54:01
Speaker
like it just looks like one of those toys that you had as a child that you imbued in.
00:54:07
Speaker
Actually, that was very interesting because I think one of the things that I found interesting was how the houses were built. These are the things I'd seen in movies. So that was interesting. And another thing that shocked me, you know in Nigeria, I don't know if it's right to say this year, but you know in Nigeria, when you see a white person, it's like one off, so you maybe are good on the show. And they always, so like everyone was there, right? Because they are like a bit out of place. I don't know if you get what I mean. It's not common for people to speak with some parts of Nigeria.
00:54:34
Speaker
I never saw a white person, for instance. So coming here, and black people were in the minority, so you are seeing more white people than black people. That was a shock. That was a shock. Yeah, yeah. And it felt strange because also it's like, you look around and how many black people here? You're probably just the only one. And the first time I came, I was like, okay, let me try Bumble for friends.
00:55:06
Speaker
Oh, my sister. The first person that I met, I was just like, I never do this.
00:55:27
Speaker
Well, honestly, we tend to, because when I moved to London, because I have family in London, my sister lives in London, my stand-up partner did live in London. And also my, so I came in March of 2021. And then my partner came in October, I think it was in August. So when we came, everything just became a lot more easier. I had my person, so when I'm going to the shops, I'm not going alone.
00:55:55
Speaker
And yeah, when I then moved to London, I met many of my other friends that are working back in America as well. And in many of all these companies, even people that I had met on LinkedIn, that I would just not randomly chat to people like, oh, they're in London. I mean, Chester, I don't know when we will see. So it was then easy to connect with more people. But yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that, I do think that
00:56:23
Speaker
Having people significantly helps you in adjusting to an environment. I'm glad you have your people around you now. Yeah, I'm actually very glad. Because now if I want to see my sister, I can't. And my partner has family in different parts of the future. So we can always just go and see this. So life is better now. That's the point. Your sense of self was already fully formed in Nigeria. And now you've had to become exposed to different people, different perspectives, different things.
00:56:52
Speaker
entirely different, or at least not at par with what you're known. And there's also that part of you that is like, I have to blend, I have to adjust. If I'm going to thrive in this environment, there's certain things that I need to quickly pick up, there's certain things I need to know, because I cannot extremely just be staunch
00:57:18
Speaker
to my Nigerian ideals because now I'm in a new environment and to excel here, things have to work differently.
00:57:27
Speaker
So how have you been able to navigate and kind of balance those understandings? I think that question is very deep. I'm trying to think of which engine I do that would work here. The engine I do that I held that would work here or I had to change. And honestly, I can't think of any
00:57:50
Speaker
I can't think of any ideological change I had to make. You know, part of what I was saying about having a one-tracked mind sometimes, I think that
00:58:02
Speaker
Maybe that's why I don't think of... So when I landed in London, to be honest, all of this, they were not adjusting all of that. I wasn't thinking about that. I landed almost maybe two weeks into LSC and I started LSC and from the first day I knew that I was in for a hell
00:58:22
Speaker
because LSE was extremely intense. It was extreme. I've never been as stressed in my life. I've never doubted myself as much. I've never thought of suicide.
00:58:37
Speaker
As much as I did during my time at LSC, it was hell. So during LSC, that was the only thing I was thinking about, like from start to the end, right? I was only thinking about LSC, crying. So it was like a cycle of me going to class, trying to write essays, crying, complaining.
00:58:55
Speaker
back to writing, crying, complaining, crying to my friends, complaining. That was all I was doing that year. That was really all I was doing that year. I think some of the things that challenges I faced were also doing LSE, beyond academics was getting used to people. So one of the things I knew I had to get used to that people can be very fickle.
00:59:18
Speaker
In Nigeria, when people don't like you, those, they can easily say to your face. Do you understand? When you've done rubbish, they can't tell you to your face. But yeah, they tried to be diplomatic in a way that I do think that it's actually hurting you. Because just tell me when I've done rubbish, I cannot have done rubbish and I'm fixed up. Instead of trying to be diplomatic, for instance, we'll be in class. And don't give an answer that I know that this is bullshit. But the situation, instead of them to just call it out as bullshit, they'll try to say, to respond it around in a diplomatic way. And I just wasn't having that.
00:59:49
Speaker
And I also struggled with making friends in class. Thankfully, I had a lot of language. She's British, she's been here for a while. But I was able to make friends at the time. Then there was another Japanese scholar in my class, Fikon, who I also became friends with in Nigeria and that helped.
01:00:06
Speaker
But I'm making friends with people in the class. I felt like I joined the class from the beginning. I was at a not welcome event. But then when classes started, it felt like before I blinked my eyes, I opened it. Everyone was already one group or the other. Everyone was already into study groups. And I felt like I felt really left out. I felt like I was floundering. And I think
01:00:27
Speaker
that's, that's been in LSE exposed me also, exposed me to the fact that I was black.
Joy's Views on Feminism and Society
01:00:33
Speaker
And you know, in back in Nigeria, I think, okay, that's one ideological thing. In Nigeria, you don't think of yourself as black. I'm Nigerian, and that's it. But yeah, right, when you're exposed to different nationalities, different colors, and everything, you then actually then start to dawn on you that you are black. So that's, that's, I think that's one ideological thing I face. I have to start thinking in that way. I also have to be conscious of
01:00:58
Speaker
You know, microaggressions, I had to be conscious of the fact that I am actually black, because of how people react to that, and know when people are doing things on the basis of that. So I had to be conscious of that. I think that's one thing that has changed, to answer your question. That's the only thing I can think of that has changed. But other than that, it was just like, my mind was just LSE. That was my mind for the entire year. Hopefully I will come with my master's.
01:01:26
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Great. So speaking about ideologies, I saw on your Twitter that you're a loud feminist. Right. Yeah, that's so cool. So I wanted to know what does feminism mean to you, first of all? How have you embodied it as an identity? And what would you like to share to the world on feminism? Like, why do you think people should adopt feminism?
01:01:54
Speaker
I do think that if you're not a feminist, what are you? So feminism to me is saying men and women should have equal rights. So I should not be discriminated out of a rule, out of a position because I'm a woman. That's feminism to me. Feminism to me is loving women, is fighting for women's rights as human means.
01:02:23
Speaker
I do think that because of gender roles, because of gender roles that we've all been assigned, some certain things I've said to the women that shouldn't be. I did not come into the world like when I was pushed out of my mommy's womb, I did not come carrying a spoon. I didn't come carrying a spatula. So that expectation that all women should be in a relationship with one's cooking, it just doesn't make sense to me.
01:02:49
Speaker
Man, woman, we are human beings, right? Fighting for both of us. For me, feminism is fighting for women's rights to be recognized in these roles as much as men. That's feminism to me. Fighting for women rights, that's feminism to me. So if you're not a feminist, I'm asking. So if you're not a feminist, so what are you really? Are you saying women should not have the same rights as men? So what are you saying if you're not a feminist? I think that's how I see it. I was just laughing like when you said it.
01:03:19
Speaker
I did not I didn't like there's so many I mean if you are active on twitter as I am there's like so many conversations like and that's why I have loud feminists on my bio on twitter because I feel like because the generals have been engraved so much you know there's so many misogynistic structures
01:03:37
Speaker
So in the patriarchal structures that I struggle with, even now I'm still learning my identity. I still think, critically think about some issues. And if I want like the bright prize we have going on in Nigeria, I think about that. Like what does that actually mean? Do I want that? Like when I want to get married? So those are structures I think about. There's another structure I think about of how women are expected to take a month last name. Like come on now, like why does that have to happen? I've been bearing David Mayo address since I was born, DMJ.
01:04:07
Speaker
Why do I have to change that by virtue of getting married to a man? And he doesn't change his name. Why? And then my kids, that I am the one who have the chances of dying to give birth to take on his name. That doesn't make sense to me. So it's really thinking about the structures and unraveling them in a way with the mentality, with the premise of thinking as a woman and people, and as we call human men as a man. That's what I do. Yeah. Yeah. And I think honestly, like people need to critically
01:04:37
Speaker
critically think about these things. There's also a blind spot that people have when they're in a societal position of privilege. So say, for instance, I'm having conversations with my male friends who are Black. They understand the aggression that they get by virtue of their skin color. But then when it comes to the whole issue of feminism, they will try to explain it.
01:05:05
Speaker
you feel left out when you're being discriminated against. So why don't you understand that women have for years been the ones on the receiving end of society's discrimination? So why can't you understand that? And they're like, oh, it's different. No, it's not different.
01:05:29
Speaker
It's actually no different. I don't even like having conversations about these things. I don't, I don't. You know, feminism, I like the way you said critical thinking. I think if there's one thing LSC impacted me is the ability to, even from the very first day of stepping into the campus, welcome orientations. One thing they will talk about a lot at LSC is critical thinking.
01:05:50
Speaker
If you have that accuracy, you'd get the best grades. You need to be able to think, analytical thinking has not just been argumentative, you need to be able to think about issues, think about it from different perspectives.
01:06:01
Speaker
analyze different perspectives, the strengths and weaknesses of different perspectives, not just your own perspective, right? The strengths and weaknesses of the other perspectives, and then come up with a conclusion. You need to have a premise, you need to have a different perspective, analyze them, and then based on those arguments, being able to come up with a conclusion, right? So critical thinking is, so from LSS, they're thinking really deeply about some of these issues.
01:06:25
Speaker
I see some people on Twitter that say, oh, feminism is supporting women's rights and women's wrongs. I do not agree with that. Women also have their own issues. Sometimes women mess up. That should be addressed. I do not support women's wrongs. I don't know. It's just something I really hold dear.
01:06:45
Speaker
And I do think that people, you know, one of the arguments people would say, for instance, with the last name thing, they'll come up with tradition. And what is tradition? It's manmade. It's manmade. It's like people that didn't even know us more. You're basing your entire life on things that were created by people that didn't have the technology you have today.
01:07:03
Speaker
that didn't even know as much as you do today. For instance, people in the village back in Nigeria that made some decisions and said this is how things should be done. And then you are basing your life on the decision of people at that stage. Like, it doesn't even make sense if you think about it. It doesn't make sense. I mean, when you showed up, the point was killing twins. We used to say, you know, there are just so many crazy things have outstanding. Yeah. To be honest, I didn't realize how misogynistic a lot of people were.
01:07:31
Speaker
until, cause I, I've never really been on Twitter. Even when I'm on Twitter, I use my company, Gradients' accounts to check things on Twitter. So it was just very recently, just checking things on Twitter. And I'm like, people actually think this way. I was shocked. I was so shocked. Cause it felt like I was in a bubble. So when I'm even thinking about distance, I'm just thinking about, okay, based on my own understanding. And I'm like, oh, it's actually not that bad.
01:07:58
Speaker
when I went on, like when I actually saw these things on Twitter, I'm like, okay, the world actually needs a lot of change. Even as subtle as, because I'm married, right? I didn't change my last name. I'm still bearing the name that.
01:08:17
Speaker
And then, so there was one of my colleagues, I was like, oh, yeah, you know, I got married. It's like, oh, I didn't know you got married. Also, you didn't change your name. Like, oh, yeah, if that's what you're looking for, to do it, I'm married. Like, you would wait for a long time because that's not happening. You just made me love you more. And then it's like, OK, family. So I'm like, OK. Yeah, well, like, so interesting to see how
01:08:45
Speaker
Many of these issues, a lot of people just adopt without thinking, like you said, without critically thinking about these things. But it's important that not just women, men as well, need to take part in the conversations around feminism and how to ensure that the world is a much more fair place for every gender, for every person. It's not even just about gender, for every person. It's even just looking at skin color. For people who do not directly
01:09:14
Speaker
identify as what you think they should identify as. So all of these things are very, very important.
Focus and Execution in Achieving Goals
01:09:19
Speaker
When you start talking about it, you can really go down. There's a part of being a woman, there's also a part of being a Black woman. You guys are organisations where you might even see other Black men, but you would be the only Black woman. I am in this organisation right now. I have amazing colleagues. I love my work, right?
01:09:35
Speaker
but it's something that you would notice it. Like the events we had, like for instance, I would go for events, I take much more time, much more care in how I dress, right? Even when I wear my shoes on, I mean you go for events and you see your male, male, white male colleagues putting on shorts. The event on, I took a while like trying to figure out, okay, what do I want to wear? Where do I get it? How do I want to present myself, right? And I do think that I always spend that more attention, I pay so much attention to that because I am the only black female
01:10:05
Speaker
in that room. It's something we need to keep fighting for really. Yeah, I know it's like this conversation can continue on and on, maybe in our private time we can have more discussions about the same thing. Yeah, so one last question I would like to ask because I know that we're already over time is, okay, I actually have one more question after this last question, but when I checked your LinkedIn, I saw that you mentioned something about being
01:10:30
Speaker
big on execution. So a lot of people have big ideas, a lot of people dream, or not everyone here has the capacity to execute. So what approach have you taken to enter even strategies to ensure that the dream that I have, I'm going to execute them?
01:10:48
Speaker
It's relentless focus. Being able to focus. You know, focus is such a word, just such a cliche. It's something that so many people say. It's something I say so many times, but the act of focus. I've said this throughout this call that I have one trapped mind. That's how I focus.
01:11:08
Speaker
execution like throughout like what i've said from like my undergrad from secondary school is i've said i want to do this i mean in under oau so many people i was close to said they wanted to graduate with the first class right some couldn't because of situations that were beyond their capacity but there were some that just lost that focus along the way right
01:11:27
Speaker
In LSE, that's where you come and you say, I want to graduate with a distinction. It's just been able, execution for me has been able to focus. It's been able to say, this is what I want to do and focusing on it from start to the end, not being able to persevere, being able to commit to that idea from start to the end. In the process of doing that, of course, you create strategies. So depending on what it is, what idea you have, what
01:12:07
Speaker
strategy you want to execute, you then start thinking, OK, how do I do this? How do I go from point A to point B? What are the things I need to do? So if it is in academia, OK, maybe I need to read, I need to connect with people, I need to check out resources. For instance, in OUE, one of my lecturers said, lecturers will only provide you with 30% of what you need to know to pass. The other 70%, you need to get it on your own. Dr. Falley, I remember when he said it in that class, and I took that
01:12:38
Speaker
So being able to do all of that, those are strategies. But the main thing with execution is being able to say, I want to do this. And then committing to every step of the way of getting to that front point A to point B.
01:12:53
Speaker
I do think that is how I'm able to execute relentless focus. I mean, you would get so many. I use my LSE example. I think I've mentioned that there was a time I considered that society. I was so done with LSE at some point. Thanks to the people around me, it was crazy. I didn't have anything to prove, to be honest, because I've come up with the first class already in OU. I was the only first class in a class of over 500 people. I've come out as best graduate student in the faculty of arts, which was thousands of students.
01:13:23
Speaker
I actually didn't have anything to prove, but I just wanted to come up with a distinction. I could have given, I mean, I would have, if I had lived a softer life in LSE, I would have easily come up with a merit. But you see, the difference between a 65 and a 70 at LSE is actually the distance from here to China, it's a long distance to be able to get to that point.
01:13:43
Speaker
And I tried as much as possible to commit to that till the end. I mean, all those time I had anxiety, I was falling sick almost every other week. So many things that happened. But being able to focus from the point where I made that decision, September 2021, right, till September 2022, when it became a reality, right? That is education. Being able to focus and persevere throughout. For me, that is education. Yeah.
01:14:12
Speaker
Like, for instance, at LSE, again, expectations, which I've talked about, I knew the expectation was needed, not critical thing. That was something I was exposed to at LSE. So I was reading resources, checking YouTube videos, what exactly is critical thinking.
01:14:27
Speaker
Critical thinking is not just saying, somebody says A, and then you decide to go the opposite way as Z, just for the point of being argumentative. That is not critical thinking, right? So what is critical thinking? LSE had workshops, right? I would try to attend some of these workshops. I would try to connect with people that finish from LSE to understand exactly what critical thinking is, and then try to apply it to whatever it is I was studying. And being conscious of what is happening
01:14:55
Speaker
So in the year I went to LSE, which is 2021, in the technology space, what was, what was debated a lot was cryptocurrency and its usefulness. So when I picked my dissertation, right, I was, I did my dissertation around cryptocurrency, right. I was looking at the use of cryptocurrency in Nigeria, in Compota village for cross-border transactions between retailers in Compota village and their suppliers in China. So I actually had an event when we go back to Nigeria, so I capitalized on that to actually interview people. So like,
01:15:24
Speaker
There was something you said at the beginning of this call. Before I leave, you said something about how you want to have distinctions and everything. That is actually a goal I had. I've always believed in reaching for the sky. If I reach in for heaven, if you don't reach heaven, you'll get to the sky. That's a philosophy I've always had. So in every class, I'm trying to get 100. I'm trying to get 100 over 100. If I don't get 100, I'll get a 90. I'll get an 80. I'll get a 70, which still puts me within the category amounts of being.
01:15:53
Speaker
with the distinction. That was the philosophy. That's the philosophy I had done while trying to execute, right? Excellence in everything. For instance, at LSC, in all the core courses I took, all my misrelated courses, I had a distinction in everything. That philosophy helped me in LSC. So that's pretty much what execution is to me, really. Wow, okay.
01:16:20
Speaker
That was actually very good. I wrote down relentless focus. Because that's the truth. Not everyone has that focus. There's a lot of distractions in the world right now. Right. And if you're not careful, you'll be sucked into it without you even knowing it. So you already had an idea that, OK, in the next year, I'm looking to apply for a master's degree. But then six months down the line, you've not even started researching. You've not even started talking to people.
01:16:52
Speaker
dreaming and thinking and envisioning what he wants to do is cheap. It is. That's why I have that many. It is very cheap. I see so many people say they want to go for the master's. Okay, you've applied to school. Have you applied to scholarship? You know, that's the sort of approach of self-awareness. You know the position your family is, right? You are not the doctor, the last doctor. How do you apply your family to Apple? You need to be like, oh, I think I've mentioned this principle by Shreyas. I don't know if he's the one I created. I learnt it from him.
01:17:13
Speaker
And how are you even going to get it?
01:17:19
Speaker
high agency, right? You need, I feel like people are not like, no, when you go, when you're in Lagosia, you move so that path will not change. I feel like people are not moving fast, right? I don't know if it is part of being in Lagosia, no, I was just born with it. Being able to like, just move, like do things, like, I don't know, I don't know. Just get, get going, like do things, like, be, have this sense of audience, like, you need to get this, the one you need to do, like, that's, that's also part of execution for me.
01:17:48
Speaker
And I also say this one thing that don't be a victim of your environment, because especially in Nigeria, with the situation that is going on with students of how you would find out that somebody who was supposed to study in school for four years is being there for seven years, like he can actually be very frustrated and sometimes too, but regardless of all those things, you cannot control. But there are certain things that you can control. You know that if you put your mind into it, you would get those things, those things that you can control.
01:18:17
Speaker
do those things don't make excuses that okay because of this and this and this that's why i have not but really when you dip it you can actually do it it's not because of those things it's just that you're being lazy yeah you actually need to read about that's actually it is like in the face of how people people are able to get things done in the face of whatever circumstance or obstacle that faces like how do you think beyond
01:18:41
Speaker
And it's not easy, I mean, it's not easy to do that, right? But always try trying to like, the more you do it, the better you get at it. The more you think, okay, I have this obstacles, I have these challenges,
Defining Growth and Making Impact
01:18:51
Speaker
right? How do I think beyond this? How do I try to achieve what it is I want to achieve beyond all of this? That's like, in principle, I try to always adopt. Yes, so amazing. Oh, it's like this conversation has been amazing, like the GGGG and the estimation.
01:19:08
Speaker
So the last question I have for you is, what does growth mean to you? What does growth mean to me? In what aspects? In every aspect, because I mean, this is the growth podcast. So growth is very subjective, right? So what is your own definition of growth? I actually haven't thought about this. What's my definition of growth? This is going to be a secular definition. My definition of growth is actually seeing myself grow.
01:19:36
Speaker
Let me explain. Sometimes when I reflect, when you're being reflective, you think of where was I at this point in life, right? Where am I now? For instance, this is 2020. We just ended. This podcast is being shot first of July, which is the field of another quota. So where was I at the stats of this quota? Where am I now?
01:19:59
Speaker
And seeing that I have changed in some ways, things I've struggled with at the beginning of the quarter, I have become better at them. I'm making impact. That is growth to me. I think I also evaluate growth in my ability to make impact. Impact is also another principle I'm very big on.
01:20:21
Speaker
Rather, I'm more impactful cost than money focused because I do think that when you make impact on people's life, this is something I learned from Bishop Oyedepo. Growing up, he was my father. I listened to him so much. I learned about the spirit of excellence from him. I learned about impact from him. When you make impact on people's lives, when you make value, right, that's what comes. So I measure growth in my ability, like how much impact am I making? For instance, if I'm to measure my growth in the last quarter, I'm going to be thinking about my growth in career.
01:20:50
Speaker
I was at a certain point in January, right, where I felt like I wasn't doing enough. My main issue was I wasn't having any impact on the role I was in. I got promoted in some months, like about the months back. And I can now measure in this past course, like how much impact I'm having in my role, how much impact I'm actually having in the organization within my team, right? That's, that's, that's good for me. So that's, that's how I define groups by how much impact am I making at the stage of my life? Hmm. Hmm.
01:21:19
Speaker
Yes, thank you so much. I can continue this conversation if I had all day to talk. Thank you. But obviously, you're very busy enjoying life. Where are you now, Berlin? Yeah, I'm in Berlin. Oh, my God. How do you say this so casually? Oh, yeah, I'm in Berlin. Yes, so it was very lovely chatting with you, getting to hear your story.
01:21:48
Speaker
And what I always tell people is many times you see people on Twitter, you see their posts, you see them on LinkedIn, they're posting things or even just looking at their LinkedIn profile and you be so inspired, but you don't know the stories behind the story. So you don't know what's as motivated them and driven them to get those opportunities that you're seeing and you're inspired by. And I'm so happy and honestly grateful that you shared your story of growing up
01:22:14
Speaker
and how things were very hard for you, your mom and your sister, and how for you it was imperative that you take yourself out of it and your family out of it. And just seeing how much progress that you've had over the last year and the progression that I know that you would still be able to gain in the next few years. Obviously, like I said at the beginning of this podcast,
01:22:37
Speaker
I would like to have you on again, maybe in 10 years now, your CEO. I would love that. I would love that. You know, it would be nice to see the journey, but thank you so much. I wish you all the best in your career, in your progress. I wish you all the best for your relationship, with your partner.
01:23:02
Speaker
Because I love love, I love love so much. Thank you so much for doing this with me. Thank you, Vukola. I'm really so grateful. Because when I made that sweet, I made that sweet in January. And before I leave, maybe just say this, the sweets that brought the person's attention to me, who recommended me, I made that sweet in January. I don't even think, I don't know the person. I actually messaged her after he sent me the message on LinkedIn. I don't know her.
01:23:27
Speaker
I don't think she even interacted with it sweet, right? But it's what I made in January was what caused the attention for her to say, she got me into such an amazing podcast and just watching, right? Sometimes just put out, like I was to talk about what you're doing, talk about what you want, right? Just put it out there. You might not get any engagements on the post or whatsoever, but people are actually watching. People are listening by reading. And yeah, I'm really, really happy that this happened. I'm so happy that I was
01:23:54
Speaker
I've gotten to know you in a way and that I'm connected with you. Thanks. Yeah, I thought we'd for us to have a girls time when you're back in London, just let me know. Definitely for us, we can have like, just let me know. I would love to hang out with you.