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Imposter Syndrome, Dealing with Rejections and The Truth about Achieving Success with Tolulope Dada
476 Plays1 year ago
Based on popular listens, we pulled this episode to the top of the podcast. Listen and enjoy!
In this episode, Bukola chats with Tolulope Dada, an MSC Law and Finance student at the University of Oxford. They chat about imposter syndrome, resilience, rejections and a bunch of other stuffs that you don't want to miss out on. Bukola says this is by far one of the deepest conversations she has had on this pod. So, get your hot coffee or cold juice and let's dive in.
Remember to use #TheGrowthPodcast on Twitter (or Thread) to share what you resonated with on this episode.
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Transcript
The Role of Time and Chance in Life
00:00:05
Speaker
I really believe in time and chance and like you can be, you shouldn't be too hard on yourself. This is something that I wish I had learned early enough. I kept thinking that everybody except me was doing a lot of amazing technical work. And it wasn't true. Everybody's chopping hills. Every day new opportunities come. Do you understand? Like, so if you've messed something up, no ala, pick up your lesson and run with it again.
Therapeutic Podcasting Experience
00:00:36
Speaker
Hey guys, welcome again to the Groat Podcast. I am Bukola, founder and CEO of Gradients. I enjoy saying that, to be honest. I don't know why. It just gives me this boss-like post-lady feeling. Anyways, I have just finished recording, actually, posts. I have just finished editing this podcast episode.
00:00:56
Speaker
And to be honest, I felt like I was having a therapy session. Tolu's story is a very unique one. She shares her story in a very unfiltered way, in a way that we all can see ourselves in it, in a way that we can all relate to. And I am so
00:01:15
Speaker
happy and genuinely appreciative of the fact that she was able to do this. Tolu, if you are listening to this podcast episode, thank you again for being very vulnerable, for sharing your story without holding back and making everyone realize that it is possible for them to go on their journey and rejections
00:01:38
Speaker
happens to all of us. Like she said, we all chop L's. It is all part of the learning and the growing process. We will lose some, we will win some, but just understanding that at the end of the day, if there's anything that we really want to go for, we should not hold back on it. We should keep trying, we should keep betting on ourselves, and one way or another, things will work in our favor.
Real Stories Behind Success
00:02:05
Speaker
Now let's dive in.
00:02:06
Speaker
The growth podcast is a space where we share the real stories behind the stories. We take you behind the scenes of the success stories you read and see online. We lift the wheel and ask the questions that no one else is asking. To expand your mind and break the limits that society and quite frankly yourself have placed in it.
00:02:29
Speaker
and all these is to get you to realize that your version of success is attainable for you too is attainable for you too
00:02:37
Speaker
Hi, Tulu. It's so good to have you in our virtual studio today. I'm actually really, really excited because I know when I started or when I actually thought about starting the group podcast, I know you were one of the first people that I reached out to. And when I reached out to you at the time, you were like, oh, you know, Kola, I'm not yet ready to share my story. I still think there's a lot of things that I need to put in place first.
00:03:01
Speaker
before I become more confident to share that and when you mentioned that I just felt like oh it is one of those excuses that they just give you so that you can just move on but when you actually came back and you're like okay yeah now I'm confident enough to do this so let's do it
00:03:18
Speaker
I was really, really, really happy. So thank you so much and it's really, really good to have you on group podcasts today. So how have you been and what have you been up to in the past few months or weeks or days, anything exciting?
Tolu's Uncertain Journey and Growth
00:03:33
Speaker
Thank you very much, Bukola. So it's really funny that you're saying that it was an excuse to
00:03:42
Speaker
to not show up. That wasn't what it was. But to be fair, for the past few months, I had been avoiding this sort of thing. I had been avoiding. I've gotten a couple of invitations, too, on some topics like how to thrive as a young lawyer or how to thrive as a law student. And those things just made me laugh, because I'm like, first thing in my head is you. I'm not thriving right now. I don't want to come and lie to you.
00:04:09
Speaker
So that was why at the time, things were not going great for me. There was a lot of uncertainty. But now I'm good, you know, like, I mean, I'm not completely, I'm not 100%. I don't feel like 100% I have clarity, but I feel like I'm in a better place now. At least I can see a few months into my life right now.
00:04:30
Speaker
which is really different from what it was before. What exciting thing has been happening?
Law to Finance Transition
00:04:36
Speaker
I got called to bat in July.
00:04:39
Speaker
And for most of the ceremony, I was irritated. It was a very, I was just, I was disdainful about the whole thing. You know, it just, it was, it was the end of eight years of work and it just wasn't what I expected it to be. I was very resentful of the process. And so I've spent like a lot of time after that, or even like before my call to bat, I had already started the transition to pure finance, like venture capital,
00:05:08
Speaker
private equity, that sort of thing. It's really important to me to do that right now. In a few weeks, I'm going to be resuming at Oxford. I'm going to be studying for a master's in law and finance, which is really exciting. But then I've also decided that I'm going early in for finance. I've structured most of my courses around finance. In fact, the only law course I'm picking
00:05:36
Speaker
is something called commercial negotiation and mediation. I'm completely done. I'm done with law. I've packed my boots. So one exciting thing that is happening is that I started working and I feel like this is the longest time I've worked at the stretch. I mean, I've interned, but this is the longest I've had an actual job.
00:05:55
Speaker
I work at Platform Capital and we do sector agnostic investing, catalytic investing. We also have incubation campuses where we just provide incubation to entrepreneurs and funding. It's just really, really exciting work. It's extremely, extremely exciting work. It's hard work, but it's exciting work. And I feel like I'm in a good place with that.
Unconventional Podcast Focus
00:06:25
Speaker
but yeah it's glad to I'm very happy I'm very happy to be on this podcast because I think that I think one of the things that I like about this podcast is the fact that it's not it's not conventional it's not like hey come on tell us how you made it you know like the fancy stories and all of that I really I really like that and that's why that's that's one of the reasons why I was like you know what's when I'm gonna get that place I'm going to reach out again
00:06:51
Speaker
and then come on the podcast. So thank you for having me. I'm really glad to be here. Oh yeah, thank you too. Thank you too. And when you were speaking, you mentioned, you know, like people inviting to speak about how to thrive, how to have a balance and things like that. And to be honest, I can totally relate because sometimes it's like, I'm not there yet. It's like, why do you guys want me to speak about these things? And yeah, I totally get when you also mentioned that
00:07:18
Speaker
you know, you didn't like at that point, you just didn't feel like you have 100% clarity on what you wanted to do. And even right now you don't
00:07:28
Speaker
that's what a lot of people like miss out from they feel like oh certain people already know what they want to do or oh this girl she's already flying high like she knows the next step she already knows 10 years of her life already is already planned out but one thing that I know it's like most people are just winging it really like
00:07:48
Speaker
No one really knows what they're doing, but at the end of the day, it's just that constant and consistent ability to just bet on themselves every single day is like really what I see in I Achievers. It's not like they really know what they're doing. It's just, okay, I don't know what I'm doing. I'm going to figure it out along the way, but I'm going to keep you pushing. So, and that's like something that I really, really, and I genuinely see in
Perception in Achieving Goals
00:08:13
Speaker
you.
00:08:13
Speaker
And, yeah, and I also like wanted to like I really appreciate that you mentioned that oh you like what we do on the group podcast, because to be honest like starting it it was just like you know what, I don't really see the sort of stories online. I just see a lot of people saying they've gotten these they've gotten that especially when you go on LinkedIn.
00:08:31
Speaker
you see people who have gotten some sort of opportunities but no one really shares the behind the scenes or the back story to that but yeah on this podcast we sort of just share those raw stories the downsides the rejections the failures because for me I feel like you know life happens full circle so it's not a oh every time it's always exciting like things might not always go how you plan
00:08:55
Speaker
it to go, but it's just at the end of the day, like, what can I do to just be in motion? And so yeah, that's why I'm really excited to have you because I know like there's a lot of things that you probably will share with the people listening and your story is just like a very, very unique and genuine one. So I think I'll just start with, you know, maybe from the university and let's be honest, like I've checked your LinkedIn profile, I've had conversations with you,
00:09:24
Speaker
Yeah. And I know, like, I've mentioned it to you already earlier when I was like, oh, I don't know if you can still remember, but during my own application process, you were very pivotal to helping me get it in your only two ways. And I'm sure, like, even when you were telling me those things, you didn't exactly know how I was going to run with the information that you were giving me, but even
00:09:43
Speaker
just speaking with you was it gave me that confidence boost when you mentioned you know perception is reality because for me i always just like oh you know crossing the eyes like i need to know the technicalities of what i'm doing but you're like see perception is reality you already have read or you've researched to these points just go there and be very very confident in what you're doing and that like i took with me to my interview and it really really helped me
00:10:08
Speaker
So yeah, I just want to openly and publicly thank you because yeah, you were really, really instrumental to my own journey. And I'm sure on this podcast, as you're going to speak today as well, you will also be instrumental to the journeys of other people this evening.
00:10:21
Speaker
Thank you, Bukola. I'm really glad that it all worked out for you because you know the funny thing was you're here now working at Bank of America. I really wanted that you know it didn't work out for me and obviously that's probably something we're going to go into later but the funny thing is like it makes me really happy that like
00:10:42
Speaker
people you know like that like you know you're saying i helped it's it's a great thing that like even if i couldn't do it you know like other people could and then i helped them get there there were a bunch of other people too that i spoke to at some point i got the full-time offers and you know like there's a way like i was like like i'm extremely happy for you guys but there was also the potoli still couldn't you know like sometimes you just question yourself and say
00:11:11
Speaker
You still were not good enough for these people. That was the way I felt some days. But then, no, stuff has come full circle. There've been bad days and there've been good days. And I'm here and still on the journey. But yeah, I'm glad that I was able to help. I don't remember the details of it, but I'm really, really glad that it worked out for you. Congratulations again.
00:11:38
Speaker
Yeah, thank you.
Competitive Nature and Ambition
00:11:39
Speaker
And I'm sure we're going to like really go into it at the later part of these podcast episodes. So yeah, so I want us to go back to like your high school days and university days, because I know, you know, I checked your LinkedIn, and I could see that you were very active in a lot of
00:11:56
Speaker
you know competitions and things like that and so that just brings me to asking the question on have you always like been a high achiever have you always been a very ambitious person a very competitive you know if i must say so what has been that thing that just kept you going and saying oh you know what i need to apply for this i need to do this because i think you're someone that really puts yourself out there in whatever way that you can okay thanks so i'm going to try to take
00:12:26
Speaker
Um, take the questions one after the other. So have I always been ambitious? I think so. Like I remember if you want to go, I was going through like my old documents, you know, and then I remember seeing some even like from primary school, I've always been ambitious. Um, I remember like when I was in primary school, for instance, like we used to get stickers for doing well on weekly tests and it was always important to me that I had the highest in the class.
00:12:52
Speaker
So that was important. Me, then also like, just the little things. But then in secondary school, I was ambitious as well. I remember how deeply I used to teach when I was second in class. It was deep for me. Like I would even, because in secondary school, like they would, in your report card, they would list all the courses.
00:13:12
Speaker
and then write your position, your ranking, each of them. So I'll be comparing my report card for the term to the last one and be saying, and my dad used to do it too. He would say, ah, ah, like you were 30 maths, maths was not my strong point. You were 30 maths last time, now you're fifth. This is not a good result. You know, despite the fact that I was still first, it was always important to me that I was on top. And then also, I remember one of the greatest expressions of my competitiveness was competing for head girls. In my secondary school, we used to,
00:13:40
Speaker
we used to be like it was an election so the teachers would nominate and then the students would choose would vote and that my year it was so competitive it was so competitive because personally I was competing with had won a bunch of competitions for the school she had traveled outside the country and then I was just there I don't even want local competitions
00:14:00
Speaker
So I remember like even the week before the elections, I remember signing up for a competition. I was like, yes, I'm going to do this competition so that like if people are voting by the number of competitions that you've won, at least I'll have this extra feather in my cap. It was very competitive. I eventually became head girl. Moving to university, you know, I feel like my journey truly started.
00:14:22
Speaker
at university and I think that like a lot of that can be attributed to the people that I met and became friends with. I think that was very extremely fortunate in that regard because now I speak to people that are my age now that we're all done we lost school and then they tell me like oh I didn't know this how did you know this and I truly there's no formal process as to how I knew that this was what I should be doing if this was kind of person I wanted to become it was just what my friends knew
00:14:47
Speaker
The conversations we had, like someone heard this thing and told me, oh, tell Nijine about this, tell Nijine about this. It was just my circle, like, and I feel like, obviously, you know a bunch of them, David, Zana, Solomon, Corey.
00:15:00
Speaker
a bunch of them, like, you know, it was just a circle of people that were just, that is one of the best. So we had just come to Obafemi, our local university, you know, everybody was about books, even the faculty, it was just, it was boring, it was depressing. So it was really important to us that we did something that made school exciting. So I think one of the greatest blessings in my career
00:15:25
Speaker
was joining the debate committee and it's ironic how, because it's just debates, but I feel like that was one decision that really changed my life and set me on this path that I'm on. So I joined the debate committee and
Internships and Professional Growth
00:15:38
Speaker
The particular way that this bit come to change my life was through the tax debate. So I was in 200 level. Actually, I had just gotten to 200 level. It was right before exams. And then there was a tax debate. Now, the problem was that tax debate was holding at a time when we were writing exams. And then it was only 200 level students that did not have exams the week of tax debate. And so the natural thing was that
00:16:02
Speaker
only 200 level students would try out. And so we tried out me, David and Zainab got selected to represent OAU at the tax debate.
00:16:13
Speaker
Now, we're in 200 level, we do not know tax. So it was essentially us reading from the internet, writing debates, you know, just doing drama, because we're like at least one thing that all three of us had was that we're all good speakers, we're all very good speakers, even if we do not have that much content. But then with research, I think there are contents even made up for it.
00:16:32
Speaker
So, you know, we went for the debate and surprisingly enough, we're good. We made it to the finals and then the finals were really tight. Like I remember that I wasn't even sure if we're going to win, but then we won, I think by like one point or two points, not even something significant. But then that's just really changed our lives.
00:16:53
Speaker
And the first way that I did was that I got to UNILAG and I noticed that it was very different from UNILAG students where, you know, that was the time I think when, what's his name? I think was it, was it Toby? I know Gamaliel was there at the time. Gamaliel was an X-Men tax club. There was Toby, there was Yamiad, there was Ruwan.
00:17:11
Speaker
There was faith, onymia, there was just a bunch of discipline. I saw how they were interacting with professionals from KPMG, where I was like, ah, why can't I do this? Why is there nothing like this in OU? Why? Why? Why? Union accidents are so different. And then we heard about how they used to attend tax conferences. We heard about the Odell United Nations. And then we wanted debates. First of all, we got laptops, and then
00:17:38
Speaker
We got internships at KPMG and that was the first time that I ever worked in an office. So I went for my internship at KPMG. It was mind-blowing. It was mind-blowing. Like I was like, yo, I can't earn this much. I can't be in this cool office. The internship then was so great. It was such a great experience. And I remember that some of the people I met there
00:17:58
Speaker
have been influential in my life now in several ways. So a bunch of the interns at KPMG at the time are now doing amazing stuff. A lot of them are Bank of America, Goldman Sachs, Microsoft,
00:18:13
Speaker
IFC in Washington, Imperial College, like everybody, like my intern class that year, it was 2016, was amazing. Like everybody's doing great stuff now. I also met some of the partners, like some of the partners now are like still my really good friends. And then we decided to start a tax club in OAU, which was also like
00:18:34
Speaker
another thing that just changed our lives. So then we started getting the exposure. I started seeing that one more. I want to be, I want to intern every year. And so like after KPMG, I essentially interned during every school break. After KPMG, I went to SIAO. After SIAO, I went to Banwan Gudalu. After Banwan Gudalu, I went to Nigerian Stock Exchange. After Nigerian Stock Exchange, I went to the IFC. After IFC, I went to
00:18:59
Speaker
I can't remember right now. But I feel like that experience just changed my life. It was so eye opening. I think that another defining period in my life was joining the Mutt & Mo Committee. And it was funny because there was an opportunity I got that I felt like I wasn't qualified for. It was a space law competition.
00:19:26
Speaker
Like I said earlier, I was very ambitious. So one day I was in my room, I just finished my first ever competition and I won it. And, you know, I just started thinking, but what if I get selected for space law? I mean, it's possible, right? Because I typically was older people that used to go for it. So like, you'd have to be in like 400 level, 500 level to go to space, because it was such an important, expensive competition to go for. You know, they didn't want, they wouldn't want to take a risk on like someone that wasn't so good to get.
00:19:54
Speaker
So, but for some reason, the chairman of the committee said she wanted to see me. And then I was like, okay, did I do something wrong? And then she's like, I've selected, no, she said, I've registered you for space law.
00:20:08
Speaker
And then I was just like, wait, what? And then I also didn't want to form too happy because I didn't want people to know that I had already set my sights on Space Love because I thought it was a greedy thing to do. It didn't make sense. Like, why did I even have the audacity to think I would be selected for Space Love? What did I even know? I didn't know anything.
00:20:26
Speaker
So, you know, when she called me, I was just, I just like, I hid my, I wanted to jump and be happy. But then I was scared. And then also I didn't want her to feel like, ah, no, no, no, don't worry, don't do it again. I've changed my mind, you know? You're actually not ready for it. But like, that person, and she's someone I really respect, like, even till now, and I always respect.
00:20:47
Speaker
Coincidentally, she's at Oxford now. She took a chance on me and I think she changed my life. She was another person that really changed my life. You know, I eventually went for the competition. We did well. We won the Africa round. We went to the world round. We're second. And I think these experiences just gave me confidence. I think what, in particular, what Space Lord did for me
00:21:10
Speaker
was that it showed me that there was nobody like there was no nationality on earth that was necessarily better than me just because of their nationality because you know sometimes it's easy to think I'm just Nigerian I'm not even that good but like no I saw how we could have easily won space law globally because it was really tight like we were so good like we were good enough to have won it
00:21:33
Speaker
So I think that was another life-changing experience
Ambitious Surroundings
00:21:37
Speaker
for me. But yeah, that's mostly how I spent my university days, trying to do well at school. And that wasn't always going well. Sometimes I wasn't doing so great at school. But then also, there was this other thing that was also important to me. It was putting myself out there and just making my parents proud. And then just seeing them say, ah, you've done this one again.
00:21:59
Speaker
like wow you know being just being really proud of me i feel like that was a that was a very big motivation for me and i just i think i just wanted to excel just wanting to like constantly be doing something that was important to me as well yeah and to be honest like i really liked when you mentioned you know the people around you your friends they're very pivotal to helping you you know get opportunities sometimes not like you're actively looking for something but someone around you just sends you
00:22:28
Speaker
an opportunity and you're like oh yeah let me try half for it and many times i always just talk about the people that you surround yourself with so important many times you might be low you might feel like oh i can't do this but if you have friends that you know on the same wavelength that you as you rather the same wavelength as you
00:22:46
Speaker
And they're also trying to gun for certain things. They say, no, Brenna, you as well would. It will rub off on you. And it will make you feel like, oh, yeah, I actually need to do this thing too. I actually need to get this opportunity for myself as well. So it's really, really important. And I like that you mentioned it. Then also, one thing that actually struck from what you said was, by the time you
00:23:11
Speaker
had the space law competition and you're going to the global rounds you realize that you know there's really no nationality or there's no yeah no nationality that is better than another nationality it's just a mindset thing if you think
00:23:27
Speaker
you know you can actually get to you, it doesn't matter if you're in Nigerian, you're Ghanaian, you're American, whatever, many times all of these things are just in our head, we're like oh you know they have better schools, they have this, they have that, but when you're able to compete at that level you then begin to realize that oh okay actually
00:23:44
Speaker
it just requires me to research or do my own homework and which was what you did and I'm really happy that you were able to get all of this because when I saw it on your LinkedIn I was like oh my god okay this is actually good and many times again one thing that I always say is
00:24:01
Speaker
People will know how possible certain things are until they see people like them getting it. So even you actually going in for those opportunities, it might seem like, okay, you actually just bugging accolades for yourself, right? But there are people, Nigerians like you, who would see that on your profile, who would see that you're actually doing these things? And they feel like, oh, you know, if Tolu can actually do it, Tolu is a Nigerian like me,
00:24:26
Speaker
Toulou, who went to OAU, she did not go to Harvard or Imperial or whatever, I know now you're going to Oxford, but yeah, at the time, he went to OAU, Toulou is a lady or things like that, she can actually compete at this level. Then of course, you know, I should be able to do the same thing as well. So yeah, it looked like you were getting accolades for yourself, which is good, but then at the same time, it has also been
00:24:49
Speaker
you know, something that can like speak to other people and make them feel like, oh, okay, this is also possible for me as well. Yeah. So I now want to like move to your transition. Cause I think you're, again, like I said in the beginning, your story, you don't necessarily see many people who study something and then they make a decision that, okay, they want to do something else.
00:25:14
Speaker
Especially if you study law, when you think about the number of years you actually spent to, you know, study this thing all over, especially if you went to maybe public schools like Unilac or things like that.
00:25:28
Speaker
all of the dragging or every single thing. When you think about that, it's a hard decision to make to say, okay, you know what, I don't want to do this thing again. You mentioned that you spent like seven years in school and then not making a decision like, oh my God, I really don't think this is where
00:25:44
Speaker
I need to be heading towards right now. I think I need to make a switch. And personally, I think you've actually been making that switch, not even just now, like even from uni. You were exploring. It wasn't like, oh, you just woke up one day and said, oh, I want to go into finance. It was some of these opportunities. Like you said, oh, you went into tax and you were like, oh, OK, this is actually good. And then you're like, oh, let me see what is there in space law.
00:26:09
Speaker
And you were like, oh, this is good. And then you also had your internships with finance firms and things like that. So it was more about exploring. It wasn't like, OK, it just came to your head, ah, I must do finance. It was just that, OK, I want to explore. I want to see what's out there. And one way or another, when you explored finance, you felt like, OK, this seems like something that I'm really, really interested in. So yeah, I just want you to speak about your journey towards transitioning into that.
00:26:36
Speaker
what was it like for
Exploring Diverse Opportunities
00:26:38
Speaker
you? And especially because a lot of people sort of like reach out and ask, oh, you know, how can I transition? How can I be in this space? And I think you sharing that today will probably help those sort of people.
00:26:51
Speaker
Okay. Thanks, Bukola. So, first of all, I think that the first thing I'm going to say, and which I realized early, thank God, was that you're too young to specialize. I don't know the age at which I think you'll be a writer and say, okay, this is my final bust up. This I want to do for the rest of my life. If you look at the stories of
00:27:12
Speaker
really successful people they were not afraid to just like do a zigzag like okay I will look into this I will look into that does this work out and there's like there's so much I could say about this first of all I believe in God I believe in God or during steps I believe in God putting up I believe in grace I believe in time and chance um
00:27:36
Speaker
that being said it's okay to plan and you know like what can i tell people i tell people that junior in university when they ask me that oh like what should i be doing i'm like do everything do everything that looks good just do it i'm probably never i'm never going to enter the court as a lawyer i'm not going to it's not i hate it
00:27:59
Speaker
But the way I was doing most court competitions and the way I was so good at it would make people think that, ah, this girl would be a good litigation lawyer. But then why was I doing it? Well, I was doing it because I felt it was a good intellectual exercise. And then it also gave me the opportunity to travel and get exposure. That's why I was doing it. Now, for finance, it wasn't deliberately. It was me doing everything that looked good. Everything that could make my life better. That was what that was about, to be honest.
00:28:28
Speaker
Now, I started, my first internship was in tax. I liked tax. So the next one I did it in tax, you know, because that was always available at the time. I'd never actually applied, you know, because I didn't apply to KPMG. So the funny thing was my very first, my actual very first interview in life was with a particular law firm in Lagos, D2. And I really bumbled that interview. I said no sense during the interview. Like now I think about the things I said during the interview and I'm just cringing like, oh my God, Iama.
00:28:57
Speaker
Why did I say that? You know, and this was after I had interned at KPMG. But the thing was, my KPMG internship, I didn't interview for it. So I hadn't actually learnt how to interview or get the job or get an internship. My next internship was connection. It was a place that someone knew someone and then they said, oh, this person has done an internship in tax before, let her go. So that was what that was about. Now,
00:29:24
Speaker
My next attempt was Banh Wan Gudalo, and then I actually went through the process and all of that, you know, and it was a love film. It was fine. I liked it there. I liked the people, my mental works there. It was an amazing experience.
00:29:42
Speaker
And then I had another mentor that was working at Nigerian Stock Exchange. And she was like, do you want to intern at Nigerian Stock Exchange? And I was like, oh, yeah, sure. I mean, yeah, it's so much work. That's why I even went there. And now I feel like that was my very first ever exposure to finance in quotes. And let me tell you this also, like, I think, I think it was 300 level. Was it 300 level? Yes. So by 300 level, I really stay here in about Bank of America. And
00:30:11
Speaker
So I've not gotten my friend's permission to share this. So I'm not going to mention her name, but I'll just say the story anyway. My first Bank of America application, I did it on the final day, the day that it was closed in Google. And if you know anything about Bank of America Goldman Sachs, they review the applications on a really basic. So if you're applying on the last day, unless you're like some perfect individual that dropped from heaven, you're probably never going to be called.
00:30:35
Speaker
that's not going to happen so you know we applied until last day that one we didn't get called for interviews nothing nobody like it was even 18 so in 400 level I applied again and it was this 400 level I started interning at the Nigerian Stock Exchange I applied again and this time around
00:30:50
Speaker
I actually applied early. Now, the reason why I applied early was because I had gone for the corporate presentation. So they had a corporate presentation at Oriental and I went there and at that corporate presentation, I did the most. I put myself out there. At that point, I didn't even know what investment banking meant. I did not know what global market meant. I didn't know what trading was. I didn't know anything about finance. I didn't know that. I'm not even joking. I didn't know anything. Imagine not knowing what investment banking means. I didn't even know what they did.
00:31:21
Speaker
And I tried to read about it but I simply did not understand because all I knew was law and I knew tax too and I knew debates but that was all I knew. So I went for the corporate presentation now and because of how much I did not know
00:31:33
Speaker
and how much I was aware that I did not know. When they were making the presentation, when I did not understand something, guess who raises their hand to ask questions? When they say, oh, do you have any questions? I'm like, yeah, what do you mean by this? What does this mean? Like, I was just asking a lot of questions. And guess what happened? At the end of the presentation, one of the guys that was making the presentation called me and took me to HR and said, oh, this girl collects her name.
00:31:56
Speaker
Like, take her name down. I guess that he was impressed by the fact that I was asking questions. Because I wasn't, to be honest, I wasn't just asking stupid questions. I was listening to what he was saying. And then I was thinking, I was thinking as well. I was trying to apply it. I was trying to simplify it in my head. When did it make sense? I would ask.
00:32:12
Speaker
So that happened. And then that year, I actually got to the semifinal stage of the recruitment for investment banking. Now, why did I even choose investment banking? I was just asking myself, I really want to go to London, I really want to work at Bank of America, but which of these things that they've advertised, like which of these roles is even near what I'm doing? There was no law, there was no compliance.
00:32:36
Speaker
I was like, what could I do? Like, what can I do? So then I was talking to my auntie and she was like, ah, investment banking is kind of like loaner. I mean, lawyers work on investment banking deals too. Technically, it's kind of like being a lawyer. And I said, that was why I made the decision to apply to investment banking.
00:32:51
Speaker
That was why it wasn't like there was any life-defining movement like, oh my God, finance is the hope. Finance is where I should be. Finance is my purpose. Finance is my passion. That was not what happened. It was me wanting to go to London because why not, you know? It was a free trip. I would earn money. I would work at this international organization. So why not? Jiget, it didn't make sense to me not to apply.
00:33:16
Speaker
And that was it. Um, so after my Nigerian stock exchange internship, that was sort of some expedient finance finance was still, it was still something that was giving me a headache.
Finance Learning and Internships
00:33:25
Speaker
Like I would be sitting in meetings and I would not understand. They'd be talking about Kegah and ROI and, um, and accounting stuff. And I would just be confused. Like imagine sitting in a corner, just not knowing anything, like not knowing what we're talking about. So I just started. So, okay. So that happened. And then.
00:33:43
Speaker
After that, I now heard SCU was recruiting for something. A lot of young people would know SCU.
00:33:50
Speaker
And then what SEO was recruiting for? I didn't even know, to be honest. The show said it was a development finance program, but this interview I really prepared for. Because I knew SEO was affiliated with Bank of America and Goldman Sachs, and I'd also been good. I hadn't gotten into Bank of America that year again. So I was like, you know what? I would just go to SEO. At least their program cannot be bad. So I went for the interview, and this time I really prepared. I asked questions. I read and read and read and read.
00:34:17
Speaker
I remember I went from church. Was it from church that year? It was after church. That day at church, they were asking me, why are you dressed like this? What's going on? Because I had proper dress, wore my heels, did everything. I went for the interview. And apparently, they were very impressed by me. My interview went so great because by then, this I didn't understand. At least by then, I knew the definition of investment banking at the very least. I knew, yes, investment bankers do end my needs, even if I didn't know the details, but I knew the definitions by then.
00:34:45
Speaker
you know i did my interview well then i went to gana for training you know and then at gana we started taking some classes in finance and some things finally started to make sense that was the first time i heard about financial modeling i was like oh okay this isn't this actually isn't so bad and then i got more ginger again i told myself because in my seo class that year there were also good maths guys
00:35:07
Speaker
they were training Goldman Sachs and DFI guys together so they were training us together and I was like you know what like this about just human beings and they're going to London guy this is going to be me next year and so
00:35:20
Speaker
Okay, so when that happened, and I went and used my savings to buy courses. It was all my savings, in fact. I bought courses on them. They were having a sale then. I bought lots of them, courses I've never finished, even till now. But I just bought them. Then I also, when I went back to school, I formed a group with some of my friends that were also law students that were trying to get into finance.
00:35:42
Speaker
So we would have overnight meetings, like we would be meeting overnight, trying to figure out financial. We didn't we didn't know that much ourselves, to be honest. But then we're just like, you know, this thing, we're going to learn it without confusing each other, trying to explain to each other. So that's really how I started to learn. And then the next time Back of America was recruiting, I was already interning at IFC by then. I remember I told almost everybody at the office C, I'm interviewing for Bank of America. I remember one of the people at the IFC then taking us, taking me into a room
00:36:11
Speaker
and it's like obviously an office room and then just teaching, teaching, teaching me finance. At ISC like they were teaching me like someone was just teaching me for my interview and of course like I did a lot of reading on my own and at this point I'm just going to say to you that I really believe in time and chance and like you can't be you shouldn't be too hard on yourself this is something that I wish I had learned early enough
00:36:40
Speaker
you know, because I still struggle with it. As young people, there's a temptation to think that, like, if this person rejected me, if this person did not think I was good enough, then I'm probably not. But, ah, like, there's really just time and chance. I promise you, there's just time and chance. Sometimes it is just the case that there were just people that were more prepared than you that year. They were not necessarily better than you. Or their interview went better.
00:37:09
Speaker
In my bank of America, at the time that I recruited for Bank of America, there were people that I knew better than me that we're trying to get in. They're like, if you tell me to go now, obviously, it's an invasion of privacy to mention in their names, but I can tell you so many people that I know applied the year I did. I knew more technical stuff than I did.
00:37:28
Speaker
But at my interview, my interview just went well, to be honest. They just went really well. And I think that they just really decided that, OK, I was a good person to give a chance. A lot of the time in my career or as a student, I've gotten some really amazing opportunities. It's been me feeling like someone took a chance on me. That's happened a lot. So yeah, I went to Bank of America.
00:37:54
Speaker
I did the internship. That's a whole other story about how imposter syndrome dealt with me. The same me that was saying, I know I can't compete with anybody from a nationality, I'm good enough, was the same person that just kept saying, ah, I don't think I deserve to be here. And I think I even said it out to people. And I remember one of the things that happened when I was trying to get a feel of what people would say about me in my end review, I remember talking to someone that was really close to, and then him just telling me that,
00:38:23
Speaker
you know, like he thought I could do the job. I could be an investment banker, but he didn't think I would enjoy it because, and this was because of the way I've been talking, like the things I've been saying, how much I didn't believe in myself. It was a mess.
00:38:36
Speaker
now permits me to because i honestly feel sad that i'm interrupting this podcast episode so thank you i just knew this is something that i should do so i want to really take this time to appreciate you for listening to this podcast week after week
00:38:54
Speaker
To be honest, we cannot do any of these things that we are doing without you listening to it. And if you don't know, for the past few weeks now, Gradients has been topping the charts on the self-improvement category for Apple Podcasts.
00:39:10
Speaker
and this is a feat that I never thought we would be able to achieve in such a short period of time and like I said it was just myself and Veronica and our family members and our friends like the immediate circle of friends that listening to this podcast episode week after week we will not be topping the chart so thank you and I genuinely genuinely genuinely appreciate you for your time
00:39:37
Speaker
and always listening to it and i hope that you're learning and you're taking back what you've learned and implementing the things that you can relate to to your life and your everyday activity now this is where i shamelessly beg you to recommend us to your friends
00:39:56
Speaker
your family speak about this podcast normally i wouldn't do this because i fall into that school of thoughts of you know if people want to like me they would like me organically i don't have to beg them to share any of the things that i am doing i don't have to beg them to like i just think if people like something they will organically like it
00:40:18
Speaker
but then i've been learning of leads that it's important that you tell people to help you so this is me shamelessly coming to you to tell you to help
Imperfect Attempts and Perseverance
00:40:28
Speaker
us promote the podcast tell people about it there's so much value-packed information that we share week on week and i think a lot of young people will learn from it so tell your young friends about this and now we are back
00:40:46
Speaker
yeah like that's actually really really interesting and one thing that i was able to take from what you've said is you know doing things imperfectly like you really do know what investment banking entailed or what you probably
00:41:02
Speaker
you didn't know what to expect in finance space. You were just like, okay, you know, if people are doing this thing, then I think I should be able to do it. Let me try. And, you know, he started learning at the core. And I know for so many young people, like young people, like cause like me too, I also like falling into that sometimes I always just want things to be perfect before I go for it. So when I see something, I'm like, ah,
00:41:26
Speaker
is it my type of person that they are looking for here or what do I even know and you just self reject without even trying but like from your story I can see that element of you know let me just do this thing imperfectly and when you did it at your first try you didn't get it but that still didn't deter you you were like oh okay I'm going to go at this thing again so it's just do things imperfectly like you know if there's something that is calling your attention or you think
00:41:53
Speaker
You know, this is quite interesting. It might give me an opportunity for a good life. Like he said, what just got your attention? Was you going to London? To be honest, that was also what got my attention. I never know what they were doing in this space. I was just like, they're taking people out of the country. I've never been out of Nigeria before. So yeah, it could just be that little thing that probably will motivate you, but just being able to run with it, even if you really don't know what you are. And the thing is, the way
00:42:20
Speaker
the world is right now. There's really nothing that you want to learn that you can if you actually take our time to learn.
00:42:26
Speaker
there's Google, there are people who have gone through that path. So you say, for instance, I'm going to go back and say, oh, I want to apply to Bank of America. There's always someone who has done it before that could reach out to, personally for me, like, you know, I reached out to you and I reached out to a couple of people and you shared your experience, a couple of people shared their experiences as well. And that really helped me even, even when I didn't know what to do. So yeah, just, just trying things and, you know,
00:42:51
Speaker
putting yourself out there, it doesn't matter if you really don't know what the end result will be, like you really never know what the outcome will be, but just going at things regardless. So yeah, that's something that really struck me from things that you mentioned. And I know you have now moved to, you know, talking about Bank of America and your time there, you mentioned, you know, facing imposter syndrome. I think that's like a big thing that a lot of us face. Personally, I face that like even at the office, there are times when I'm like,
00:43:20
Speaker
or like, what do I know? I'm not going to speak up. What if people think I, you know, it just, especially when we are chatting new parts, new terms, like you said, you know, transitioning into finance from law, like what exactly do I know? And sometimes it might, you know, stop us from achieving certain things. And, you know, I think it's just one thing that a lot of us face, even the most, the people that we think are successful, successful in court. And I know I was watching this interview where Michelle Obama was like,
00:43:50
Speaker
or, you know, she actually experiences that every single time. So it happens to like, even the best of people, the people that you think, oh, they're hooked there. Yeah, so you mentioned that I think we should just delve into that a bit, because I know a lot of people will learn from it.
00:44:04
Speaker
So Vamu was very interesting and I remember that my impostor syndrome was so bad that this person that I was really close to introduced me to someone else, this other lady. And this lady actually took me and spent like two hours talking to me and trying to help me overcome impostor syndrome. She was like, do you know that it is an insult to the people that recruited you to say you're not good enough to be here? That means they don't know their jobs.
00:44:31
Speaker
the people that interviewed me were like directors, you know, like, and I even remember like one of those days when I needed a confidence boost, I went to see one of them, he was British, and you know, I would try to get an appointment with him, he had been very busy, but in one of those days I finally, you know, eventually got to see him, and then I just sat there and then he was just like, oh well, yeah, like I still remember you from your interview, you were, you know, yes, he said, and I could, you're a very smart cookie,
00:45:00
Speaker
And then this was towards the end of my internship. And I felt like I'd already ruined it. Maybe if he had just told me again, if he had just reaffirmed to me at the beginning that he thought I was smart enough because I did not think I was smart enough. And that problem I had was that I kept thinking that everybody except me was doing a lot of amazing technical work. And it wasn't true.
00:45:22
Speaker
So, when you're doing internships, a big part of it is catching up with people, telling them this one, this one, this one, this one, getting them to like you, give you work, because in investment banking we're in a pool, so we're working with all these teams and trying to get teams to say, okay, yes, we want to hire this person now too.
00:45:41
Speaker
But the thing was, I was constantly talking myself down. I was constantly saying, yeah, I haven't done so much. I only worked on this thing for this person. And then I wasn't sure if that was legit. I'm not even kidding. That's the way I was talking during the internship. It was so crappy. And then I remember that another significant thing that happened that now gave me ginger was that one of the teams organized a case study for interns. And by this time,
00:46:10
Speaker
I had already like, I hadn't even been working with that team. And I just decided to do the case study. In fact, I almost dropped out of the case study because I was like, ah, well my pitch, so we're supposed to do like a pitch deck and then pitch to investors in quotes. You know, there was a case study, this person wants to buy this asset. And you know, like I'd already seen some of my Nigerian friends, I think only one other one, only one other, no, yeah, no, four of us, four of the Nigerian guys participated in that case study.
00:46:40
Speaker
And I'd already seen one of my friends pitch decks and Omo. It was so technical. It was so good. I was just like, yeah, I'm not doing this anymore. But then at some point, I was not talking to some of my friends in Nigeria. They were telling me, oh, you can do it this way, you can do it this way. They did not extend the deadline. And that was the only reason why I participated in that competition. They extended the deadline, so myself and also I'm taking my pitch deck now. And I went for my pitch. And then now because I felt like I wouldn't do well technically,
00:47:10
Speaker
I had already decided that you know what we are going to kill, then we research. At least I lost it and you can research. So like I really researched into the oil and gas industry. I knew a lot of stuff about the industry. I knew about the macros that affected you. It's like when you were asking me questions, I was giving them facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts, facts
00:47:40
Speaker
Again, I started telling myself, I told you, why did you mess this up so much? Because you were not actually that, like you're actually not that bad in general, but like, you know, I guess this things happen again. You know, like I'm a believer in time and chance. I'm a believer in, you know, sometimes some things don't work out so that better things will come. So, you know, like I don't like that. Now, I've learned must be so hard on myself about that time in my life because it did teach me some lessons, you know. But yeah, like in post heart syndrome,
00:48:12
Speaker
And you know the crazy thing about imposter syndrome? It is high achievers and people that actually know that they are affected by imposter syndrome. People that don't know and are not high achievers. Imposter syndrome is not the problem we battle with. It is not at all. Because if you don't know, you know, like if you're a person that is not a high achiever in first place, like you always just think you're good, you're good, you're good. Like you're just cruising through life. But when you're someone that holds yourself to like a very high standard, that's when it starts
00:48:41
Speaker
you know how much you don't know. You feel like, oh God, I know this much, but there's still this whole other world of things that I don't know. Like this people are probably, I don't know as much as this person is high achievers. I like even recognizing that in itself, you know, and like just staying grounded. I think, you know, might help you deal with imposter syndrome. Another thing that I wish I did, which one of my friends did, one of my Nigerian friends that I eventually got an offer I did was that she kept reminding herself that she was good enough.
00:49:08
Speaker
I remember times when I would go to her computer, she had sticky notes there. She wrote like full-time bold. It was there. She didn't even care who was seeing it. I remember one time I entered her room too. I just saw her mirror, like on her mirror, she put lots of sticky notes. Yeah, good enough. Babe, I love you. You're amazing. You're so good. You're smart. Like it was just a lot of affirmation. So I think, and I feel like it worked. It helped with her mindset during that period. So I think that like as young people, when you're in a particularly like high pressure situation,
00:49:38
Speaker
you're trying to get something and it's intimidating. I just think that you should affirm to yourself. I think that that really works. That the mind is a really powerful place and you know, like what you speak to it sometimes just really works. And even like going forward into Oxford, I know that like some of my classmates are going to be probably like people that have been qualified for like seven years and they have worked at some places that I can't really even dream of working in, you know, but
Acceptance to Oxford and Setbacks
00:50:07
Speaker
affirmations and like writing what I want. I think I'm really going to explore that. I'm just sharing this with you. I don't have it all figured out, but you know, like it's definitely something I'm going to explore. I really hope that it works.
00:50:19
Speaker
Yeah like I was just saying yeah yeah and then I was snapping my fingers all through when you were speaking like to be honest like you said it's a mindset thing and I'm just because again like sometimes we don't when we're going through all of those experiences like it's a lot like it happens
00:50:37
Speaker
it's not sometimes we really really can't control it and like you said it's just a thing of time and chance because you really don't know like what other opportunities are out there for you like you might be thinking at this moment like oh this is the best I can ever get but there are certain experiences that you just have to go through because like there's a lot more that would you know that would be on your path like later on
00:51:02
Speaker
So say, for instance, that I'm going through that experience and understanding, okay, actually, it was imposter syndrome. The next opportunity that comes in now, like your Oxford opportunity, which you're going to talk about very soon, like the next opportunity that is coming now, you're like, I will not let this deter me.
00:51:21
Speaker
I'm going to go into this regardless of whether the people are in my class. I've worked for seven years regardless of where they've been. I'm going to actually go into this knowing that I've gone through this experience before and I'm not going to let this stop me.
00:51:35
Speaker
So about Oxford, oh my god, like that's actually a very very big one and I don't even know like I know when you got here. I sent you a message I was like oh yeah congratulations and things like that and I'm very very proud and happy that you're able to achieve this like you've actually gotten this opportunity and like to be honest like I know it only gets better because from this opportunity you really don't know what the next one will be
00:52:03
Speaker
And one thing that I even want to even point out is how, you know, when, let's say, or not getting the awful time at Bank of America, and like for some people, it might just, they might just feel like, okay, if I can't get these, let me just rest and, you know, go back to law and do, go back to law firm and work like, let me not try as much. But even like with that, you are still able to push yourself and say, okay, yeah, what's the next opportunity? Because
00:52:30
Speaker
I still have a lot of years ahead of me. There's so much that I can do. There's so much that I can explore. And you are able to put yourself out there in that way and then get this opportunity. So yeah, I want you to tell us about that. I'm so, so, so, so happy that you got in Oxford. Hey, you're a big girl. Do you know that? So yeah, just tell us about this opportunity.
00:52:55
Speaker
He said, big girl, don't kill me, I beg. But yeah, like, I'm excited, I think. I feel like it hasn't really sunk in because I'm still deep, like neck-dipping work right now. I haven't really had time to dip it out. I'm actually going. So Oxford, to be honest, this was even, and this is why you guys see, if things are not working out for you right now, just take a deep breath, chill, rest, be sad, and then stand up again ASAP because
00:53:25
Speaker
the world is so big and you might feel like this was the biggest opportunity of my life that I just ruined and bonkled but there's so much like you know like recently I heard about a visa for people called high achievement individuals or something like some people that have gone to good schools there's not a chance for them to go back to the UK the new visa is going to come like
00:53:48
Speaker
Every day new opportunities come. Do you understand? Like, so if you've messed something up, no ala, pick up your lesson and run with it again. Now Bank of America depressed me. I'm not even going to lie. I was depressed for months. I dated my WhatsApp. I dated my social media. I went off everywhere. I was ashamed. I didn't know. I'm just like, why were you ashamed? Are you okay? I don't understand why I was ashamed. But I was. Now,
00:54:15
Speaker
Oxford too, like there are stories of failure there, like so it wasn't even like getting a masters immediately was not on my radar and even if I was going to get a masters it wasn't the UK that was on my mind. I wanted to go to like Columbia, I liked New York, I was like yeah I'm going to go to Columbia, you know like get the job in New York or I would go to Harvard, like those were more my speed. I wasn't really looking at Oxford, I mean it was there but I wasn't but then I heard about the Rhodes Scholarship not
00:54:40
Speaker
And then I was like, hey, there's a full scholarship that will pay for everything. Oh, you have to just get your admission. And I was like, hey, let's apply now. So I applied. I put my best foot forward. I spoke to people. I spoke to past roots scholars and finalists. I did all of that. And I applied. And
00:55:00
Speaker
a lot of stuff happened. I don't want to go into ball. I do not win this scholarship. I was actually second runner up. And again, I was sad. But I think the difference this time was that
00:55:14
Speaker
First of all, I got sad immediately. I cried for a few days. I was very sad. But by the next Saturday, I was already fine again. I was like, you know what? So it was later, someone on the panel was telling me that I was actually for the judges, I was some of them's first choice.
00:55:35
Speaker
that's in like, maybe like in a different year, in a different scenario, I could have easily won the Rhodes Scholarship. And then in that sense, the person was really encouraging me. I was saying, oh, still apply to Oxford, there'll be scholarships, da, da, da, da, da, da, just apply. And I was like, you know what? Okay, I'm going to apply. I mean, it's just 75 pounds to apply. So I came back to Nigeria now and then I did my application. I remember like that application also took a lot from me, reaching out to reference, to reference again.
00:56:02
Speaker
My entire Christmas, that's what I was doing, like just perfecting the essay, the research essay, perfecting my personal statements. That period then, people were fighting with my family because it was Christmas. I was not in the Christmas spirit.
00:56:18
Speaker
I was just there, like, working on my application. And when I was there, they'd be like, ah, Tulu, because, like, family was around. They'd be like, Tulu, yeah, they were coming downstairs to hang out with anybody. I was like, you know what? Because at that point, law school had frustrated me. I don't know if people know, but, like, I went to Kano.
00:56:34
Speaker
That was what I felt like was one of the worst things that ever happened to me in life, going to Kano law school. And trust me, it is everything you think it is and worse. Crappy lecturers, crappy, crappy, crappy infrastructure. That's the first time I ever saw a pit latrine in Kano. Crappy infrastructure, no chairs and tables in the rooms. Very mean, evil lecturers. Lecturers that you wouldn't hear when they are teaching.
00:57:02
Speaker
just like a very, very Islamic feel of the place. Like them saying something that was I only knew was too short. Just, it was just, it was just, it was like, ah, like I left Bank of America for this. And then there was COVID, there was the only, there were the online lectures that weren't going so great. There was law school not talking to us. I didn't know when law school would end. So I was like, you know what, this Oxford thing is happening. I was very gingered.
00:57:29
Speaker
to go to Oxford because it was like a more like, do I even want to be a lawyer? This is an institution that trains lawyers and it is just so organized. It was very, it was a very discouraging period for me. So anyway, I put in my application and the funny thing was that my offer came the week before bar finals and I was just in the library. I just saw University of Oxford. I was like, you know what, should I still write these bar finals? But you know, I still wrote it and then
00:57:58
Speaker
That was another journey. Another journey started. So the week after I got my admission, I already got some financial aid from the department. It was some money, but it wasn't enough. I was waiting for scholarships to come through. Scholarships did not come through.
00:58:17
Speaker
And that was one of the reasons why when you reached out to me before I was not in a very good place because I knew that scholarship could easily come through like it's literally random like getting a fully funded scholarship from Oxford is random like it could happen to you and it could also not and it's not even a question of whether or not you're good enough.
00:58:34
Speaker
you know like I was waiting waiting waiting for months sending emails I think that on this Oxford matter I might have sent up to 100 emails and linked in messages because I just really wanted to go but the money is ridiculous like there are a few people in Nigeria that can afford an Oxford education by themselves very few is extremely expensive extremely extremely expensive you know like I was reaching out to people and there's some parts of it I can't go into right now you know about how my funding came through but
00:59:06
Speaker
was a lot of persistence and this is like and I feel like the lesson for me in this was you know like just keeping at it because the way life works and if you send out 50 emails and none of them come through it might be the 51st one that would be like the one that was meant to come through and if you just let the 50 that you sent that did not go through discourage you
00:59:33
Speaker
then you'd have lost out. I feel like that's one thing I'm always conscious about. So even when I'm tired, even when I'm feeling like, oh, you've done so much already, they're still missing. I told myself that after this one, I wasn't sending another one. Let me just send this last one. I mean, that's the last one. But that was my attitude. A lot of things were frustrating me about this Oxford in particular. My passport expired.
00:59:56
Speaker
Then the Comptroller General of Immigration said they were closing the applications for passports. We're not taking passport applications. I was like, with why? Like, why would this happen to me? I went to do my passport application. It took forever before my passport came out. And I was ready to get the TB test screening date. There was no screening date. I had to go to Apuja to get the screening date. It's just, it's been a rollercoaster, to be honest. But I think that
01:00:24
Speaker
I was determined to get it. There was no scenario where I was not going to Oxford this year. There was no way it was happening. So it was like, okay, this is the do or die affair to me.
01:00:39
Speaker
Then it's like it's into a diaphragm now figure out how to get there that was really it for me also like God came through for me and I don't want to get religious I don't want to get into like spirituality and religion in this so I'm really going to stop here, but like whatever you believe in right just Just know that like if you're diligent
01:01:00
Speaker
right and you keep at it something will come through and even if like the thing that you're pursuing is not exactly like 100% what you taught you because I mean we all had dreams of what we wanted to be by the time we were 21 by the time we were 23 24
01:01:16
Speaker
just do it just take every good opportunity that comes your way unless it's real life or there's something more important that you're forfeiting it for just do it like just because we're young right this is the time to explore and like i'm not going to lie it's going to be a painful process you cry i remember times during this like this time that i've been looking for funding folks for that i've just cried like i would just be crying because i'm just like it's so unfair that like i've got like
01:01:42
Speaker
I got this admission and I could like I could easily have gotten funding and there's also the if I was if I was a UK resident I'd have gotten a loan for instance like that would even be a problem but I'm not Nigeria is just this country that constantly shows you that maybe you should get out it's just like it's I don't know it was just a very growing period to be honest a very growing period and
01:02:05
Speaker
This is one of the reasons why I've told myself that maybe don't announce wins anymore. Because I feel like people online are really affected by what they see
Behind-the-Scenes Struggles
01:02:17
Speaker
online. They are really affected by it. Because it's just logical. I'm not going to be crying. Today I was crying. I didn't take a picture of myself and post it on Instagram. You're crying right now. That's what's up. That's not what happened.
01:02:29
Speaker
but then like i'll get to oxford now and i'm going to post in my oxford sweatshirt like oh finally midi here even if i write in that post that this brought a lot of tears and sweat and the people will not focus on that they will not they like that's not what people will see at all you'll just be ah the last post i made was her getting caught by
01:02:51
Speaker
you know obviously i didn't write about the terrible infrastructure in kano on the post and then the next thing they're saying now is to listen oxford oh my god this girl's life is just a cruise jigget but it's not like that at all and like i don't know about people that are not close to me but like for the people close to me that i can see the like people that people admire that are close to me i see the strokes and i know they're like
01:03:15
Speaker
Nah, like it's more like just take it easy on yourself to be honest because Everybody's chopping else if I thought anybody kisses that rejected me this stuff like There's a particular law firm in Lagos that I didn't know like they're top but I don't like them and it's an open secret They're toxic law firm like everybody knows you get and then I recruited with these people and I felt like I did well I mean back when America took me in Oxford took me and these people did not call me back
01:03:45
Speaker
And in fact, they are still calling people back right before we were going to resume law school for the final time. And I remember going to law school just feeling discouraged, like, well, you can't even get a job with the law firm in Nigeria. Is that how bad it is now? Is that how bad? And I was just like, maybe my days of glory have passed. Maybe now I'm just not meant for great things. To be honest, these were the thoughts that crossed my mind for a few days.
01:04:13
Speaker
It's just like, things like this will happen. They will happen. They will happen because you're not special. And there's something, I tweeted this a while back, and then, you know, like, people do not agree with me. But I think it's true. Like, there's not, like, you're not special enough to not feel, do you understand? Like, you must feel, because, just because, like, there are not enough opportunities you get, and, like, some things are just not meant for you.
01:04:43
Speaker
And if one person consistently got all the good things, life cannot work that way. Life cannot be that everything you do, you be 100% at it all the time. Everybody will always accept you. Everything will always be easy for you. That's not how life works at all. And the approach you must take to failure is just, okay, I failed. I'm sad.
01:05:04
Speaker
But what was the lesson? Was this something I could have done differently? If it's that, then next time, please do that thing differently. But sometimes you just did your best. That was the truth. You prepared. But they were just better people. And that's fine. They are better than you in this way. It does not mean they are better than you in another way or that you are useless. That's not what it is. And it's funny because I've heard about people that like
01:05:29
Speaker
not so great universities rejected and Harvard accepted them or Stanford accepted them or Imperial accepted them or Oxford accepted them. Gigi, I know someone that gained admission to a not so great uni and she couldn't even go because there was not enough funding and then Oxford accepted her and gave her full funding. Do you understand? Like it's just, it's a time and chance thing, right? Like it's just maybe the year you applied
01:05:56
Speaker
this worked in your favor just be easy on yourself like 20s like our 20s are really I don't know I feel like it's a really challenging time and a lot of people reach out to me to say oh like nothing is working for me I'm very confused and I can't like I told them but I think it doesn't sink in I told them that almost
01:06:17
Speaker
Everybody's chopping hills, everybody's chopping hills. And then just one day, the one thing that comes through for you, that's the one thing that everybody will say and be like, oh my God, wow, she's working a little on what skins. Wow, her life must be so perfect.
01:06:31
Speaker
but then they don't know all the several rejections that went into it. So that's really my Oxford story. It's still ongoing and I'm hoping that like Bukhala might be able to vlog about it. I'm not concluded. I still don't know. I have some impostor syndrome about vlogging, but maybe I will. Just to show people that maybe like want to go to Oxford or like any other school like Oxford, what it really is like studying there. I don't know what it's like yet. I've asked questions, but
01:07:00
Speaker
I don't know the details so hopefully I'll take anybody interested along going to journey. Wow like I was just quiet because you were saying so many relatable things and like I was just very quiet. I'm sure anybody that listened to the last 10 minutes would just be like okay this is actually what I need. This is actually what I need right now.
01:07:24
Speaker
and i actually wanted to ask a question but you even covered it when you were talking i was like how are you this resilient because to be honest though i don't know so many people that will keep putting themselves out there the way you have because like just
01:07:40
Speaker
Like you said, you know, everyone would chop L, but like just one L is so sad. Sometimes like to even get out of that is a loss, but you get these, you pick yourself, or what can I do again? How can I just get this thing? And to be honest, I think, you know, that's like really one of the secrets to people that are very successful. I'm actually dropping a YouTube video today on three secrets of successful people that I think I know based on
01:08:10
Speaker
the research that I've done and from experience as well and one thing is just being disciplined and being consistent because at the end of the day like people who you think are really really successful like they feel so much that it's already brick fast like they eat failure it happens every single time and then you mentioned that you know the only thing people would see is the success like you said when you were you know crying that you didn't get the scholarship that you wanted to get the funding that you wanted to get
01:08:39
Speaker
You didn't snap the picture and say, oh, crying things on points. Nobody really sees those things that go behind the scenes. All they see is the successes that come after you. But people just been able to realize that, no, there's really a lot that goes behind it. And like you said, no one is really special enough that they won't chop that air. Everybody gets it. It happens. And you're like, you're like,
01:09:05
Speaker
I'm just so short of words right now. So thank you so much for really sharing and being very vulnerable. I don't know so many people that would really share their story the way you have. And I know like a lot of people will just really, really, really learn from you. So thank you.
01:09:23
Speaker
Thank you. I appreciate. And for the vlogging paths, I would really be happy to see your journey. Because for me, I just enjoy seeing people's behind the scenes. Because I know it's never perfect when we open Instagram or we check LinkedIn or we just check the news and things like that. We just see all of the successes, all of the perfect things. But you're showing us that journey. Oh, I am here now.
01:09:49
Speaker
This is what's happened. These are actually the courses that I had to take. This is just how my journey is. I live for that. If you're interested in actually doing that, please consider it and then just let me know so that I can be your first subscriber if you want to do it on YouTube. I really don't know what medium you want to take, but yeah, absolutely. I think a lot of people will learn from it.
01:10:15
Speaker
So I think we can end here now. But actually, there was actually one question that I had. But I was thinking, oh, this is already long. But I will ask it to be honest. I think I will ask it anyways. So at this point, I just want to know, what does growth mean to you?
Intentional Growth and Consistency
01:10:32
Speaker
Because we're on the group podcast, and I try to always answer a question. For so many people, they actually have similar answers. But I get to see what everyone
01:10:42
Speaker
you know things growth is to them so yeah what does growth mean to you? I just want to point out something that you know seems obvious but then people don't act like it's obvious and it is that you can't measure growth every day like you can't
01:10:58
Speaker
You can't know, like you can't say, okay, today I'm going to learn finance. You know, or like if you can't say, I want to be a finance expert. And then every day you see, ah, I've grown by one millimeter. I've grown by one centimeter. That's not how growth is measured. Growth is one year after you made the decision to change something about your life. You look back and you can actually see because these changes, like these
01:11:25
Speaker
growth you can only see like it's the same way there's a baby that is growing up and you can't see the baby growing every day but then you see a baby once and then you step back after a long time and you see ah this baby's already one it's one year old now to get and now like the problem like what people forget including me
01:11:44
Speaker
because I don't like to attack, I'm perfect, I'm not. I take, I procrastinate. I doubt myself, I'm all those things that young people are, everything is me. But I recognize that you will, like, see, time will go anyway. So time will pass, you will grow older, but you might not grow. It's very possible.
01:12:09
Speaker
It is a fact that time has passed. Even as we're here now, time has passed. But are you growing? Not everybody will grow.
01:12:23
Speaker
I think that growth in particular areas is very associated with consistency. Now the difference between time just passing and you growing is consistency, that's all. It is you saying, okay, I want to gain weight, I want to gain 20 pounds and just consistently doing things that will make you gain 20 pounds, even when you can't sit, even when you wake up in the morning and you're like, okay, today I should do something that will make me gain 20 pounds again, but then you can't,
01:12:52
Speaker
You can see it's working. The only way to hack growth is consistency. That's really all there is to it. And consistency is difficult. It sounds easy. But even five minutes of consistency every day is difficult. But in that five minutes of consistency is so important because it can change your life. Because five minutes for 100 days is worth 500 minutes.
01:13:19
Speaker
and that's how many days or how many months right so like for me i think growth is just i think it's just making a decision to change something about your life
01:13:32
Speaker
giving yourself a time frame for it. And then in that time frame, evaluating and seeing that, okay, it actually happened. So I think growth is just about like, you know, stuff in your life changing, something that you did. And then it is only growth in that sense, right? It is only fulfilling when it is something you consciously did. Because the truth is, like our bodies now, for instance, it will grow, whether, no matter what you do, your body, like your age will climb up and your body will probably change. That one is nothing in your country. The only kind of growth that is fulfilling
01:14:01
Speaker
is the one that you influenced, like the one that you made happen and there are so many ways you can make it happen. It's not even just like in your, because I feel like career is such a big thing, it's you just saying I want to be a more hardworking person or I want to be a more knowledgeable person in this area and like deciding to do something to achieve that every day and then you just wake up in one year
01:14:25
Speaker
And that thing that you said you want to be a better person in, you had that thing already, right? So as you say, I want to know more about tech. And then you decide that every day I will read tech news for five minutes. If you did for one year, you will know, like when you're talking to people, you just tech news just be falling out of your mouth without, right? And then that's the only kind of growth that people can truly be proud of. If it's a bad habit you're trying to stop, like maybe
01:14:49
Speaker
drinking or sleeping too much, like just do something every day. So that's the only kind of growth that people can really be proud of. So I think that what growth means to me would be like making intentional changes to your life. That's really it for me.
Conclusion and Gratitude
01:15:06
Speaker
and you know I absolutely agree and I liked when you said that you know many times you really don't see happening like you only know these things in hindsight and I can totally totally relate to that yes so thank you so much Tolu for being here for being so vulnerable for sharing and not holding back I'm just short of words right now and
01:15:28
Speaker
Yeah, I wish you all the best in this new journey that you're about to embark. And I hope, I hope like you probably vlog it so that I can see it in real time. But yeah, thank you so much for being here. I will thank you for having me, Bukola. Have a good weekend and I hope you get well soon. Yeah, you too. Bye.
01:15:51
Speaker
We have now come to the end of this podcast episode. If you liked what you listened to, don't just end by liking it. Actually share this podcast episode with your friends, your family, or anyone that you think would benefit from what we discussed yesterday.
01:16:07
Speaker
leave us a good rating, write us a very good recommendation and don't forget to screenshot this particular podcast episode tag myself for color or mark on instagram and tag gradient as well i'll see you in the next episode of the group podcast