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The Power of Relationships, Communicating Effectively & Deepening Your Character with Kemi Ojenike
548 Plays1 year ago
In this episode, Bukola chats with the inspiring Kemi Ojenike. Kemi is the COO of Meristem's Family Office. In 13 years, she rose from starting out as an intern in a reputable law firm to now leading teams and processes in an executive capacity. She shares the strategies that has contributed to her excellent progression and also gave us some tips on financial healthiness.
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Transcript
The Power of Open Mindset
00:00:06
Speaker
An open mind is what will get you where you need to go. Sometimes you will be in difficult situations and what they do is to deepen your own character. So what can we do? What are the alternatives? What is possible here? I will tell you that that mindset has helped me significantly.
Kemi's Diverse Career Path
00:00:31
Speaker
Hi, Kemi. I hope you're doing very well. It's a pleasure to see you in person, you know, after having the conversation with you last week. I am so happy to have you on today. I have been telling you on LinkedIn, you know, ever seeing your profile and seeing how you've transitioned over the years from studying law at the University of Lagos, going to law school,
00:00:53
Speaker
And then now in world management, that's a big transition. And I know people listening who like to understand your journey, because it's been so interesting from just looking at your LinkedIn profile, seeing that you had worked as a lawyer in a law firm, Simon Coopers, and then you had moved to a legal capacity in-house in another organization. And now you've
00:01:17
Speaker
proper, proper transition to be a COO in family office and marry them. So I am going to be diving into your story
Challenges in Kemi's Journey
00:01:26
Speaker
today. And I'm so happy that you have agreed to share your story with us. Because I always say many times we look at people's LinkedIn, Instagram, you know, see their online profiles. And we think that your journey has always been straight. But sometimes, you know, there's always a story behind it, a story about how they've probably overcome several challenges.
00:01:46
Speaker
And all of that is what we'll be diving into in the podcast today. How are you doing,
Impact of Childhood Experiences
00:01:52
Speaker
Kemi? I'm very well, and I'm very glad to be here. I look forward to sharing with you, and I hope you get to learn new and your listeners learn anything or two from my journey. Yeah, definitely. And also, I think one thing we have in common, maybe not really in common, but myself and your sister were in the same set at the University of Lagos. Yeah.
00:02:16
Speaker
So that's something that I've not shared earlier with you, but yeah, I know Shay from Unilagué in the same class. Awesome, awesome. Yes, perfect. So I think I like to start from the beginning in every of the conversations that I have. I always believe that there is a connection, a direct link between who a person was as a child
00:02:35
Speaker
the experiences and the exposures that they had and who they are now as an adult. So I'd like you to share what are some of the key moments that you had that shaped your journey over time, you know, from your childhood, things that you can hold on to and still
Early Entrepreneurial Ventures
00:02:51
Speaker
keep. Maybe like this is why I am this professional because of this experience and this exposure that I had as a child.
00:02:58
Speaker
Right. I think my childhood was pretty simple, nothing out of the ordinary. I was raised in a family of six, if I'm counting my parents, who were four children. I have three siblings and myself.
00:03:14
Speaker
She is the last born, my sister. She came to displace me after 10 years of enjoying the last born status, you know. Her growing up was pretty, nothing out of the ordinary. My parents are Christian, so we're raised on strong Christian values, you know. And I think one thing that stands out to me that I think has shaped me in some way is the fact that
00:03:42
Speaker
During our idol moments, like during holidays, you know, when we had a lot of time, my mum would encourage us to do something. So she would always buy us baking items and we would make cakes, you know, we would try and experiment with all sorts of pastries.
00:04:02
Speaker
and we used to do that for fun until the year when I was to get into the university when I was waiting for admission and I had like a gap year if you could call it that and my sister was in my eldest sister was in university at the time and we began
Leadership Skills Development
00:04:18
Speaker
to
00:04:18
Speaker
big commercially. And that was interesting because it was my first official taste of entrepreneurship. Our biggest market was during Valentine's Day when we would stay up all night for days in a row trying to meet the orders. So that made a difference in terms of responsibility.
00:04:37
Speaker
learning to own a process for me, you know, my sister went on to become or has gone on to become a professional baker. She does it so well now, but I kind of transitioned into nine to five life. So I would say I had a lot of support growing up. I had a lot of encouragement growing up, you know, and then
00:04:59
Speaker
Another thing I would probably mention is the fact that in high school I had a lot of leadership responsibility. These days I forget about that actually, but that was actually quite key because I was the head girl in my set.
00:05:12
Speaker
in Danso High School. That's the school I attended. And so that responsibility helped as well. Just navigating the nuances of that leadership role really helped and maintaining a strong relationship with my teachers, with the school in general, somewhat so that I'm now on the governing board of the school. So I think those things have played a role in shaping who I am now.
Professional Growth and Insights
00:05:40
Speaker
And it's good to get that context, honestly, because I think from your LinkedIn profile, even some of the awards that you got like three of the year. So like this actually gives context, the fact that early on, like you had been given responsibilities. So in school, you had ed girls. So taking ownership of that, you've been able to translate this even to your career right now. Like it's just shown and it's been evidenced in the things that you're currently doing.
00:06:07
Speaker
And it's so good to know that your mom actually empowered you and your sisters to do things outside of school. Because I always believe that, yes, you have children or they're children, but they're things that they can also pick up that would help in shaping the adults that they would be. So it's not really just about school. Teach them other things that they can hold on to. Because many times, what our parents give us as children, no one can take it away from us when we grow up to live up.
00:06:36
Speaker
parents are able to instill those things in us, you know, as children. We run with it when we are adults. So thank you so much for giving me that context. So I think this would, I would then move on to just talking
Lessons from Career Transitions
00:06:49
Speaker
about your career. So we'll go back and forth into, you know, university days and all of that. But going into your career, like I mentioned earlier, you had worked in a law firm, Simon Coopers, you had moved in as
00:07:01
Speaker
to work as a legal advisor and you even head the team. And then you are now currently in a CEO or in a work management space. So my question really is,
00:07:14
Speaker
How has this transition shaped, these transitions rather, how has these different transitions, the transitioning from being in a law firm to an in-house capacity and now even just moving entirely from law to work management, how have these transitions shaped your idea about growth? Right. I think a good place to start talking about this would be one of the first
Inspiration from University Experience
00:07:44
Speaker
point of inspiration for me concerning my career and it was in university, right? So in year three or three or four, I think year four actually, I joined this society in the University of Lagos called the Mutine Society. Yes, I'm sure that sounds familiar. And funny thing, it was a friend of mine, a classmate that I remember clearly,
00:08:08
Speaker
And I remember because he shaped my career so much that I often think about as to how I started. I remember clearly that day I was in the hostel in Morimi Hall, and I remember I was on my bed, and this classmate of mine came with a few others. I was like, I think today is the last day to sign up for the Muslim society. Let's go and do this thing. Let's do it. And I'm like, well, why not do anything? Let me just do it. And I did. I signed up.
00:08:35
Speaker
And then in the group, we had a competition coming up and they wanted different people to try out to represent the school. So I did, I spoke a little bit and they decided that myself and another gentleman would represent the school. And so when it was a competition, it was like an Africa-wide competition and it was unilike that was hosting it at the time. And so when we were preparing for that, again, that was,
00:09:04
Speaker
It was probably the beginning of me doing things that were a bit outside of my comfort zone, things that I was just willing to try. And you would see that theme as I talked to you about my career. And so when we were preparing, one of the lecturers that was supporting us brought this gentleman to the school to encourage us and teach us, his name is Mr. Babatunde Iruker.
00:09:30
Speaker
He at the time was a practicing lawyer. You know, he was a partner at Simmons Cooper Partners. That would sort of let you know how I ended up in Simmons Cooper. And he just came to talk to us to encourage us. And the moment I listened to this man, I was sold. I was like, oh my goodness, is this what a lawyer is? Like, you know how you've been studying, but you now see in real life, he was so kind, so
00:09:59
Speaker
brilliant, he was cautious, he was just amazing. And that day, because that was the first interaction, we had a few more interactions, and I just decided that, yes, I am going to work for this man. I didn't know anything about it. I did not know how I was going to get to the firm. I didn't even know how much they were paying. I knew nothing, but I just decided that I must work for him. And so I brought that in mind after school, when I went into law school,
00:10:28
Speaker
And I confirmed the firm that he was in, and then I started finding a way. And somehow, as God would have it, I ended up in the firm, Simos Coppa Partners, and I was like, yes,
Principles for Personal Growth
00:10:38
Speaker
I'm here. It was after the fact that I realized the salary was okay. And so what that tells you was that I was never motivated by money.
00:10:46
Speaker
I wasn't working because I wanted to earn a significant salary. So at that time, the conversations on where we would do our internship at the time was, okay, which firms are paying the best? That was not my motivation. I just wanted to, I felt like if I could work with him, I
00:11:02
Speaker
it would be beneficial to me. And it was. It was probably not the highest paying firm at the time, but the pay was decent. And so I worked there. I was retained or I was accepted for my NYSE program. And then I stayed there for about two years after. And then at some point I felt like, okay, it was time to try something different. And I decided to explore
00:11:27
Speaker
in house practice. In my mind at the time, I thought I would be there maybe a year or two and then I would move on. I just wanted to try. This was along my theme of just try it out, give it a shot. What's the worst that would happen? It might be boring. Let's just try.
00:11:42
Speaker
And then I got engaged, or I applied, and then I was hired at Sankori Investments. This is a wealth management group in Ikori. And again, I thought maximum two years. Well, I was there eight years because it was not what I expected. First of all, it wasn't boring. And special, special shout out to the founder, Tizio Junfa Adyui. She's perhaps one of the most inspiring female interpreters I have met. She is,
00:12:09
Speaker
very innovative, very willing to push the envelope, willing to do new things, willing to try. Essentially, she sort of solidified my mindset that try it out. Anything is possible. Don't settle. You can't just accept things because they are. Ask questions. Try to do things better. And so I ended up staying there much longer because I got to do a lot of different things. I was challenged.
00:12:37
Speaker
Whenever I felt like I was beginning to get into a law, I would have new responsibility. Now, remember this was a wealth management firm. It's a wealth management group that had different subsidiaries that function within the capital market. So I was exposed to financial services, to wealth management. But at the time, it was as the head of legal and compliance. But I learned a lot about what they did.
00:13:03
Speaker
Now, fast forward to February 2020, before COVID hit. I met this gentleman. His name is Mr. Femi Akonde. He's a family office expert. And the family office service is one that South Korea had always wanted to
00:13:21
Speaker
offer its clients and so I met this gentleman and he was he happens to be a lawyer as well so I was introduced to him to learn from him and to just gain knowledge right. I prior to this time I had not really I didn't really know what the family office was about I had heard about it but not fully and so I interacted with this man Mr Conde and he taught me everything
00:13:44
Speaker
the foundation and the importance of the work that the family office does. It gave me a brand new perspective. At this point, I had not decided that I would transition. As a matter of fact, I just thought that, okay, I would be a lawyer supporting a family office. So I would help with structuring, I would help with all those sorts of things.
00:14:05
Speaker
Now, so I learned a lot about it over time. We held a few seminars until our second seminar, like a private event that we held. I anchored the conversation with him and we spoke to a number of high-level individuals and we just educated them on wealth management structures, you know, building a house that stands and all of that.
Unexpected Wealth Management Journey
00:14:28
Speaker
And after that session, I was promoted in the office and I became the vice president of the family office in Sankori. So that was me now combining my legal role and
00:14:41
Speaker
leading the family of his business. So you would note that in all of this, it was not, there was no deliberate decision that I will now transition. It was mostly my openness to try new things, to take in information. It was one of the things I learned in my ATSI earthquake. Don't be closed-minded. It's okay, even if you don't agree, like even if it seems impossible, do not say, yes, it's impossible. We can't do it.
00:15:06
Speaker
Ask yourself, so what can we do? What are the alternatives? What is possible here? I will tell you that that mindset has helped me significantly. And it was from there that I now got the role that I currently am in, where I am leading the development of this new family of his business. Because I'm willing to try and I understand the importance of it. And I believe an open mind is what will get you where you need to go.
00:15:33
Speaker
Oh, wow, that was so powerful. Now I know that you actually are at the Mootin Society. So from the conversation that we've just had, one of the running themes that I can see from your story is you're willing to try things and many of the opportunities that you had came as a result of that exploration. So even
00:15:54
Speaker
the Mooting Society was because someone came and you were like, oh yeah, let me give you this short time. That was where you met the person that mentored you in Simon Coopers. And then you were like going onto your journey with Mr. Conde's voice like, okay, yeah, work management. I'm studying law, but like, what can I learn from this? And would I enjoy this? And you never know if you would enjoy anything unless you try. You're looking at it from afar and saying, oh, I don't have what it takes.
00:16:21
Speaker
you don't try it out you will never learn so it's so good to hear that like trying things how to help you to understand and you know painted a picture of what can be you know for you in your career and I think also you touched on the power of relationships as well and connection because if you probably are not gotten connected to Mr Conde you might
Reflecting on Rapid Career Growth
00:16:45
Speaker
not have had
00:16:45
Speaker
that much foundations in the world management space. So that mentorship and that connection help you to build and even quicken your capacity within this space. So thank you for sharing that. I think one thing that I want them to move on to is looking at your and what I can see from LinkedIn
00:17:05
Speaker
you have grown so fast in such a short amount of time so you graduated from the university around 13 years ago if I'm correct and in 13 years
00:17:19
Speaker
you're now like leading themes and you're functioning in leadership capacity. That's not something that you kind of find as a conventional thing that you would do within 13 years of your career. So what would you see as some of the things that has helped you
00:17:37
Speaker
And speaking from reflection, because obviously, while you were doing the things, you never knew that this was where it would lead you to. But from reflection, what are the things that you would say helped you in growing in your career and just advising young people that are just coming into the corporate space?
Building Social Capital
00:17:54
Speaker
Right. I will talk on two things that are kind of connected. One is relationship.
00:18:06
Speaker
actually, let's make that three things. One is relationship. And I know people talk about this a lot, but many times people talk about it in the context of all meeting the right people, you know, getting their number, getting into their inner circle so that they remember you or you can get whatever benefits from them. But I liked, when I say relationship, I mean,
00:18:31
Speaker
building relationships with people along the path of your journey and being patient in those relationships.
00:18:41
Speaker
There are times when there will be relationships that do not really get you what you would like. And here's what I mean. Now, I'm not talking about the extreme of abusive relationships or whatever. I'm talking about relationships that maybe seem like, yes, maybe there are more benefits I can get from this person, but I'm not getting it. Or maybe they're not giving me what I do. And let me give you a simple example.
00:19:08
Speaker
if you are working with someone or working with a group of people and they are not terrible, like they are not abusive, they don't hurt you, but you just feel like you are not getting as much from them, but they are valuable people. Stick it out. Like stay with those relationships, not just those relationships.
00:19:34
Speaker
Here's what I mean. Respect those people. Don't burn bridges, right? It doesn't mean that you will not move. It doesn't mean that you will not take career decisions. But the way you interact with people, let it be with a future perspective in mind. Don't destroy relationships because of things that happen.
00:19:53
Speaker
Don't react based on emotion. There'll be times that you're not happy with people, either your employer, your friend, your employee even. Don't think about the future before you react. And why that is important is because it helps you build social capital. I know someone who worked in a place and he felt like
00:20:20
Speaker
He was not really being respected, he was not being valued. He stayed there for a certain length of time and then he left.
00:20:30
Speaker
And when he left, he maintained a solid relationship with those people. He didn't become an, oh my God, did you tell me so badly? I never want to see them again. He was open. His mind was open. And I learned a lot from that gentleman. There are times when you feel like someone is not giving you what you are due, or they are not nice to you, or there will be things that they do that you don't agree with. It's OK to step away if you need to, but don't destroy those relationships.
00:20:59
Speaker
Because what it does is that it builds capital for you. It deepens your character and I tell this to my team members, I tell this to whoever cares to listen. Sometimes you will be in difficult situations and what they do is to deepen your own character.
00:21:17
Speaker
It's important because that depth of character is what will carry you. The world is a big place. You don't know all the opportunities that exist. You literally don't. You may be looking at an opportunity that you wish you had and you feel like, oh my gosh, because I mean, this point I can't get this opportunity and others are. Guess what? For whatever opportunity that you see, there are probably a thousand more of better opportunities that exist. So it's important for you to maintain your own integrity.
00:21:46
Speaker
Maintain, do not allow your character, the perception of you, as much as it is in your power to be tainted. Don't allow people be able to say, oh, she's badly behaved, or she's impatient. No, don't do that. Protect the integrity of who you are, wherever you are, because you are building for the future. You are building. Don't allow the occurrences of today, the inconveniences of today.
00:22:09
Speaker
to rob you of a better tomorrow.
Integrity and Character in Career
00:22:13
Speaker
There are times when, in all the places that I worked, that I wasn't happy about things. There are times when I felt like things could have been done better. There were other people that felt that way and would react. They would perhaps go to the employer and air their mind and do all these dramatic things. There were times when I would just be silent and it would seem like I was allowing myself to be taken advantage of.
00:22:36
Speaker
But I knew that where I was going was much further, right? It wasn't about the now. It was important because another thing is I saw the value in those relationships. The relationships of value are not necessarily perfect. There will be things in those relationships that you don't like, that you are not happy with, but if you can identify the value, then focus on the value.
00:22:59
Speaker
and continue to build when the time is right you will move but the perception and the testimony of your character will stay intact. Someone said recently that integrity is such is a product that the world is seeking because it's not very common anymore if you can build your integrity.
00:23:26
Speaker
you must be interested in the well-being and the good of the organization that you're in. It's not, it can't just be about you, about benefits to you. There are times that you need to, you need to, you need to own the space that you're occupying. When I was leaving my former place of work, a lot of times, a few people that said of me that they felt like they used to own that. It's kept me a shareholder in this place. The way she carries this matter on her head.
00:23:53
Speaker
wasn't you know but I cared about the place I wanted it to go well and I did my best it doesn't mean that I didn't make mistakes but when I made mistakes I owned them so many times I got to the point where whenever I make a mistake I wouldn't even allow my supervisor to give me the feedback I will go there myself and say I did this I did that this is what I'm doing to fix this situation and all they will have left to say is okay thank you
00:24:18
Speaker
because they could tell everyone is looking for someone that owns their process, that adds value. And so in summary, first of all, relationships. Manage relationships carefully. Don't just make relationships and leave them. They manage them with wisdom, right? Number two, own the space that you are in today. Give it your best. Be responsible when you make mistakes. Own them and focus on the solution.
00:24:44
Speaker
And then number three, build your social capital. Here's what I mean. People will see you, they will like you, they will value you. The fact that someone thinks you are great does not mean that you should immediately begin to ask them for favors.
00:24:57
Speaker
or you begin to say, oh, I have a relationship with them so I can ask them this and they will not mind. Guess what they will mind? It's best for you to continue to gather your social capital. Let it be clear that yes, I can do this, I can get away with this, but I want to do it. Do you understand? Build your credibility. I can do this, they will probably not mind, but because I respect them and because I'm building something, I'm building a reputation for myself, I want to do it. I can ask for this benefit, but I won't ask.
00:25:25
Speaker
People underestimate the power of that. Because guess what? By the time you've built enough social capital, you will seem like such a remarkable human being. Even you yourself, you'll be like, I didn't really do anything special. But they realize that you have restraint. They can trust you. There are times when comments will be made like, you can trust Kami with money.
00:25:47
Speaker
you know that you will not. It wasn't necessarily because I didn't do anything specific, it was the way I handled setting rooms and setting details that created that impression. Many times it's not about what you say, it's about what you do and what you don't do and the impression of you that it creates in the minds of people.
00:26:07
Speaker
Another point that is the fourth, but probably the most important, but I didn't start with it because you know how people tend to abuse this point, is what I would call the grace of God.
Grace and Effort in Success
00:26:20
Speaker
The grace of God is a real thing. It's a real thing because after you put in your best effort, the grace of God sort of beautifies your effort.
00:26:29
Speaker
So it's impossible for me to mention my journey without the grace of God. I know I've enjoyed that. I've enjoyed the favor and the goodness of God. And that is just as important. But the grace of God has to find something to bless. And that something to bless are the three things that I started with.
00:26:47
Speaker
Wow, this is so good. Like you've just given us your master class. Whilst you were talking, I was just judging so many things and I agree with you on the grace of God because one of the questions I wanted to ask was like how did you get any of these insights because these are not things that ordinarily like people actually carry with them because you mentioned that somebody said
00:27:08
Speaker
integrity is a product that the world is looking for now. So for you to have that, like it shows that it comes from a specific source and I'm glad that you mentioned, you know, grace of God. I think one thing I also wanted to mention is a thing that my friend always tells me that the least thing you can get from your employer or wherever you're working in is the money that you're being paid.
Beyond Salary: Capacity Building
00:27:31
Speaker
because you can use your employer to build your capacity because every single day you work there and it's not just by working, it's in terms of the actual things that you're doing, how you're taking initiative, how you're putting yourself forward, the leadership capacities that you're building with your employer's resources,
00:27:51
Speaker
Those are the actual value that you take from your employer. Because by the time you leave that organization, that's what people are looking for. They're not looking for how much money you were paid or nobody really cares about that. But your next employer cares about what skills have you been able to build, what character have you been able to build. And that's what will really help you on the long run. So yeah, thanks for sharing that. You're welcome.
00:28:14
Speaker
Yeah, so I think the next question I would like to ask is in regards to challenges and failures.
Managing Career Conflicts
00:28:21
Speaker
So obviously like on this part there might there there would have been roadblocks that you had come across. I would like you to share maybe one example of a time when you'd failed or had it challenged and you know how you were able to overcome and navigate that. I think one of the times that were most challenging for me
00:28:43
Speaker
is a certain relationship that I had to navigate, right?
00:28:49
Speaker
It was, I was in a point where it seemed that I was caught in a potential conflict. There were these, so the company had like an arrangement, an investment arrangement with some people. And I had sort of developed a personal relationship with these people. By personal relationship, I just mean that we used to chat a lot more, we had developed some sort of a friendship.
00:29:13
Speaker
And then these people acted in a way that was detrimental to the organization, right? They just handled the situation poorly. And I was kind of caught in the middle because I felt I kind of knew them. I was now in the middle of balancing my relationship with them with
00:29:35
Speaker
the interest of the company. It was a very, very turbulent time because it was so painful. It was like they could have done better. At the same time, I can't deeply about my organization and I was not about to jeopardize the interest of the organization as well. So it was very important for me to navigate that carefully. And I made use of disclosure. So what I typically learned is best to do is don't allow the situation to become
00:30:05
Speaker
a mess. It's good for you to be upfront from the beginning, right? It's when there's information that can potentially lead to a funny situation. Just be upfront. Just err on the side of caution and tell, inform who you need to inform that. Oh, X, Y, Z is the case. This is what has happened. I don't believe this is an issue, but it's important for me to disclose. That is to say, you don't
00:30:32
Speaker
Allow yourself to be caught in the middle of a potentially messy situation. Be proactive about it. And I tend to do that all the time. Another thing, another time, this was not really a problem, but I was getting married to someone that had been a service provider in the organization.
00:30:49
Speaker
Now, there had been a service provider and it was someone I had introduced to the organisation and I saw at that point that there's the potential for conflict as well. So the day I got engaged, the very day, I sent a message to my boss and said,
00:31:05
Speaker
I've been engaged. Oh, congratulations. Oh, by the way, the person I'm engaged to is a service provider. If there's an issue, we can't disengage that relationship. And we're like, no, no issue at all. But imagine if I didn't disclose, it will now become a chemis, husband, and you may not be doing anything wrong, but you don't want to create a situation where
00:31:27
Speaker
the optics can suggest something negative about you. So you want to be proactively managing the optics as much as possible. Now with the benefit of hindsight, I look at it and I can see how that situation could have gone. That's the one with the investors that I had become friends with, or the investees that I had become friends with. I see with the benefit of hindsight how it could have become so messy if I didn't manage it properly.
00:31:51
Speaker
So one thing I will say, and I have carried this with me everywhere, just be proactive about managing situations. Don't leave anything to assumptions. Don't say, eh, it's not really that bad. Apply wisdom. Wisdom is crucial. Wisdom is crucial. And some of this wisdom you need to ask God for.
00:32:09
Speaker
But think through things, think through, don't take needless risk, right? Think through, okay, what are my obligations in this situation? What are the things that can possibly go wrong in this situation? Okay, what can I do to mitigate that situation? And of course, you also need to learn to read people, learn to read the room.
00:32:25
Speaker
Let me read the mood. There will be a certain time I know that, okay, it's probably not best for me to say this. Other times it's like this thing is so urgent. Just bite the bullets and say what you need to say. Now, another example that I would give of difficulties that I had faced because I was head of legal and compliance.
Compliance and People Management
00:32:45
Speaker
The compliance part could get very tricky sometimes.
00:32:49
Speaker
when there are issues with other clients or there are issues with regulators and you are facing a situation where your business can be shut down, your license can be suspended and it's your responsibility, it's your desk that is sort of managing that situation. That is where people management skills comes to play. Understanding people and understanding how to deal with them. Understanding that there are certain situations where
00:33:19
Speaker
It is not the time for you to start trying to present yourself as I am the professional here. I am not going to deal with me as a professional. I know what I'm doing. Those things will probably not get you results. It might be the time where you are
00:33:35
Speaker
You need to read your audience and understand what works for them. So in those times, for instance, I knew that, okay, these regulators that I'm working with, this is their interest. This is what appeals to them. Let me go there. There were times where my strategy would be to tell them,
00:33:50
Speaker
We did not know, I made a mistake, it's my mistake, please guide me. There will be times when we'll be like, this was not our intention, and I explain. And even if there is a fight, because nobody, we know how the Bible says a soft answer turns a mirror.
00:34:06
Speaker
Sometimes we often underestimate the power of that. Sometimes there are times when you need to stand your ground, yes, but other times you just need to be a bit wise, a bit calm, not all the time, show them what your power and all of that, those things will not really get you solutions all the time. Sometimes read the room.
00:34:27
Speaker
be upfront, ask for help, ask for compassion, review the best and worst case scenario, and try to get the best. That's it. I just keep saying, well, you're very good at public speaking. I don't know if anyone, I'm sure people would have told you, but I really need to give you your flowers. You're so good with speaking.
00:34:50
Speaker
Yes, so I think one thing I'd like to mention is obviously like over the years you've held a lot of leadership roles and you've been responsible for managing things.
Professionalism and Teamwork
00:35:03
Speaker
So what would you say are certain things that
00:35:06
Speaker
can help maybe someone who is just coming into the workplace in terms of presenting yourself as a team player, as a professional, that people would actually want to work with. What are some of the things that if you were going to start your career again, for someone who is just coming into the workplace?
00:35:28
Speaker
Okay. And it's also about like, what are the things that you also look out for? Because you probably would have been interviewing people coming into your team. So what are the things that you actually look out for in candidates or people that you would like to bring into your team? Right, right. Okay, so I remember when I was moving from the law firm to in-house, I was coming from a team of an organization that had all lawyers
00:35:55
Speaker
that understood, well, predominantly lawyers, that understood each other. And we had a way of doing things. To a space where I was working, I was probably the only lawyer, maybe with one or two other people. And I was working with people from different teams, with different competencies, with different ways of doing things. So when I got into that organization, I knew that it was important to manage those relationships and not just manage them, but gain allies in them.
00:36:25
Speaker
Right? So, one of the things that I did was that I listened to people a lot.
00:36:31
Speaker
I asked a lot of questions. I sought a lot of guidance. One of the mistakes people make when they join new organizations is, and this is at almost any level, is that they feel the need to show their skill, to know that show that they are competent. So sometimes they come in and they want to make recommendations, talk about how things should be done better, or you forget that your community and organization already has a way
00:36:57
Speaker
So one of the easiest ways to show that you're a team player and to endear yourself to people in a new organization is to really listen to them, is to ask them questions, is to come presenting yourself as one who wants to be a part of them, not one who thinks they are better than them.
00:37:17
Speaker
or wants to boss them around. And how do you do that? Be nice to people, whoever they are, whether they are the security, whether they are junior staff, whether they are clerks, be nice to everyone, greet everyone in the morning, smile at them and ask questions. I remember when I left the law firm, this was my first experience being thrown into the capital market. I remember it was someone that was junior to me that was at the front desk that I would sit with and I would ask him
00:37:47
Speaker
all sorts of questions. Explain this thing to me. What does this mean? And there's a way you ask people as well that they will feel like you are disturbing them. There's another way you ask that you want to help you. I remember one small thing I used to do.
00:38:02
Speaker
And to be the benefit of hindsight, it's not like I was deliberately trying to do it, but I just did it and I noticed I made a difference. Every time I called someone or wrote to someone that was not on my team, that I needed a favor from, the first thing I would say would be, thank you so much for speaking to me, or thank you so much for the time, or thank you so much for what you helped us do that time. Or after they answer my question, I will tell them, thank you so much. Not in a fake will, in a genuine way, like,
00:38:29
Speaker
communicating to them that I really appreciate your time. I appreciate your effort. I appreciate your support. Guess what? The next time I want to come to them, they'll be willing to help me because they know that everybody wants to be appreciated. Everyone wants to feel valued. Everybody wants to be heard at any level. So whether you're coming in as a junior staff or as a leader in an organization, come in and listen. Learn from people.
00:38:53
Speaker
You understand? Make them feel like you want to be a part of them. Make them feel like they are doing something really good. Even if you feel like there are issues, even if you are coming to fix a problem, you need to highlight the good that they've done. Don't just come and let them make them feel like, oh, your run is rubbish. I am the one with the answer. You need people. And if you come in with that attitude, nobody will help you.
00:39:14
Speaker
And so that is very important, coming in the right way. Even if you are the sharpest Nobel laureate winner, you are the best of the best. Put that aside and come in to learn, come in with the attitude of I want to support you. Another thing is you need to be diplomatic.
00:39:35
Speaker
in the way you communicate. Now, one of the things that I'm very, very passionate about is communication. I even have, I'm so passionate about it that I set up a YouTube channel for it. And what I do, I don't talk about communication, like presentation skills, even though I talk about that, like in the form of say public speaking, I'm more interested in interpersonal communication, the nuances of communication, the areas that people don't really talk about.
00:40:04
Speaker
So beyond just using words, the way you use them, I'm a firm believer and I tell my team all the time, there are 10 different ways at least to say the same thing. I can say something to you and you feel like you instantly dislike me. I can say the same thing to you and you are just
00:40:27
Speaker
tell them. You can't always, particularly as lawyers, you know, there's the tendency for us to want to be formal, to be strict. You can't be that way. You will get results. You need to be approachable. You need to be likeable. You need to make people feel like you are not, you are on their side. You are not trying to put them in trouble because if they feel like you are trying to sanction them, you are trying to find them, even if that is what you need to do eventually, that can't be your approach. So approach is
00:40:55
Speaker
it makes all the difference. Whether you will be liked, whether you will be respected, whether you will appear as someone with leadership qualities, your approach is everything. Many times in our society we feel like we have to be aggressive, we need to put our foot down, people need to fear us for us to be effective. But I've seen in my career that that is not the case. You don't need to wound people with words for you to get them to do what they need to do.
00:41:22
Speaker
You don't need to give people mental health problems. You don't need to break people and make them feel like they are only working because they need to earn a living. People can be happy and give their best. On my team, I would typically not
00:41:38
Speaker
approach things like, I'm the boss who has this whole body. I always tell them, that's not my style. I don't have the energy for that because we have too much work to do. I expect us to understand each other, to respect each other. Respecting each other means I expect that you are a professional and you will do your work. If you have any issues, let me know. Let's talk about it. It's from that point of mutual respect that when I now see that it's like you're not returning the respect I'm giving you,
00:42:05
Speaker
And you yourself, you will feel like, this lady is, she's treating me like a serious person. Don't let me, I shouldn't fall on her hand, something like that, right? I mean, it doesn't mean that there will still be time for sanctions and things, but if you treat people with respect, no matter who they are, you will get the best from them.
00:42:24
Speaker
That's, I mean, I'm willing to stand by that. If you treat people with respect and you do what you're supposed to do, you lead them, you give them the information you need, you create a structure around them to do their work, you will get the best out of them. So that's some of the things I've learned in my decade plus of working.
00:42:42
Speaker
That's so good. That's so, so good. Okay, so moving on to what is the best advice you've had, you know, in your career that someone had given you or maybe you read up on what's that advice that you'd share that help propel your career?
Choosing Battles in Career
00:43:01
Speaker
I think one of the best, and I'm trying to frame it because it was not like a sentence. It was like a conversation that helped me navigate it. Let me describe the situation to you. It was a situation where I felt like I was slighted, right? I felt like I didn't get something or what I was given. I deserve more than what I got. And my initial reaction was to take it up and have a conversation with the person.
00:43:31
Speaker
But my husband advised me and he said, let it go. Let it go. At that point in time, I was like, what? Why? He was like, think about it. What is the result that you are likely to get? Understanding the scenario, understanding the logistics or not the logistics, the dynamics of the relationship.
00:43:57
Speaker
At the end of the day, it won't go down well. So let it go. So if I was going to summarize that advice, it would be build your social capital and choose your battles. It's not every battle that you should fight. There are certain things that you should just take and keep it moving. Take the lesson. Consider it as a lesson of how not to do things and keep you moving.
00:44:24
Speaker
Choose your battles. Now there are times when you should speak up, there are times when you should address issues for sure, but you need to be. Pick your battles. I think that's it. Pick your battles. It's not everything that you should be all arms over. Some things are just not worth it if you think about it. There are some things that they should gear you to take certain action. There are some things that you should speak out, and even the manner of speaking out.
00:44:46
Speaker
to be carefully done. But you need to analyze your situation and your battles, because certain battles will do you more harm than good. They will paint you in a certain light. They can't be misinterpreted. And it's just not worth it.
Challenges as Learning Opportunities
00:45:01
Speaker
So whenever I felt discontent at any point in my career, I would tell people, well, not people, but I would consider in my mind that I'm being paid a salary
00:45:11
Speaker
to learn in school. Like this is a school I consider this a university. Everything that is happening that I'm not happy about, I'm learning. And they are paying me a salary to do so. I'm learning how not to do things. So pick your battles very carefully. That was one advice I would say that I would give to my young self if I had to go back in time.
00:45:32
Speaker
Yeah, that's really good. So I watched your interview with ARISE TV and obviously like it's clever, you're very passionate about financial education.
Financial Principles for Youth
00:45:43
Speaker
And obviously I know in the capacity that you're working at, you're working with high net worth or high net worth individuals of which a lot of people listening might not be there yet. But one day we, including myself, we probably, you know,
00:45:57
Speaker
and are looking forward to getting there. So what are some of the things that you can share that are principles and habits that young people can start doing now to ensure that they are financially healthy? So that when they are in their turties and their forties, that's not when they are scrambling to understand what to do with their finances. Right, right. Okay. I would say, first of all, you should examine your relationship with money.
00:46:26
Speaker
Examine it carefully and objectively. What is money to you? Is it your driving force? Is it the reason why you are working? Is it something that you feel like you must absolutely have? If that is it, then that relationship is faulty. Typically, money should be a tool that helps you create the greatest good in your life and in the lives of others.
00:46:55
Speaker
It's a tool, and it must always be considered as such. If you consider money a tool, then you understand that.
00:47:03
Speaker
what you are deploying it to is important, must be meaningful. You understand that, okay, if I am going to live the best life that I can, if I'm going to complete my assignment on the earth, if I'm going to complete my role in this world, I need to have the tools and the resources to do so. I can't waste it because the truth is not having money is not just the inability to buy what you would like to buy, it is also a limitation
00:47:33
Speaker
to do important things that you need to do in life, right? So you need to examine your relationship with money and show that you see it for what it is, which is a tool to do the greatest good that you can in your own self-influence and the greatest good for you
00:47:51
Speaker
may not be the greatest good for me, right? It varies. The greatest good is also you ensuring that you are healthy, you are happy, you are able to contribute productively to the world. So once that is set, this hustle mentality, this I must get it at all costs mentality will not be there anymore. When you are clear that, okay, I need this thing so that I can function optimally, then you begin to target your energy, your focus on the things
00:48:17
Speaker
that will yield you the biggest value. Now, for me personally, focusing on making money alone never really works for me because it's not a good enough motivation for me to do anything. There has to be a bigger reason for me. Once I have sorted out the reason, then you need to be strategic.
00:48:35
Speaker
What are the things that I can do? What are the things that I can learn? What are the things that will position me for the biggest opportunities? What are the things that the problems I can solve that people will pay me for? What are the things that I currently know that I can leverage to earn more? Where am I at the moment? And where do I need to be? And how can I work towards that place?
00:49:02
Speaker
do you understand at the end of the day everyone has something of value but in thinking money and in thinking making money you need to be thinking of giving value and giving value means being excellent, means delivering through
00:49:19
Speaker
people will pay for. It's not just, okay, I'm going to sell shoes on Instagram today. It doesn't matter if I sell bad shoes, useless shoes. It doesn't matter if my customer service is horrible and people hate to interact with me. I just want to make money. That's not a good way to do things. It's not a sustainable way to do things. If you want to get the greatest yield for your labor,
00:49:40
Speaker
then you need to do it the right way. You need to be very value-driven. So in summary, for young people that want to build strong financial habits, you need to first of all examine your relationship with money and ensure that it's correct. And then you need to focus on the value that you can deliver that will be able to earn money for you in the long term. And delivering value means putting your best foot forward all the time.
00:50:07
Speaker
not settling for some standard, working towards being the best version, delivering the best version of your solution so that you stand out in your space. It may not be profitable in the beginning. But remember what I said about integrity.
00:50:23
Speaker
know you as the go-to. Even the people that are cutting corners will need you. Because the principles of the world at the end of the day, the core principles don't change. People, everyone needs someone they can trust. And it's to be able to trust that if it is shoes that you're selling, I can trust the shoes you're selling.
00:50:41
Speaker
I can trust that you will serve me well. I can trust that I will get the best value from you. I can be sure that when I call you on the phone, you will treat me well, you will speak to me well, your representatives will... Once I can do that, you have my business for life, but it takes time and it takes effort to build to that point. Value is extremely crucial and the right mindset about money is what will save you from depression, from diaractries and from doing illegal things.
00:51:07
Speaker
Yeah, I like the way you've explained it. To be honest, at the end of the day, if you're just focused on the money itself, you will do whatever it is, even if that's not the purpose you're supposed to be fulfilling here on earth.
Building Wealth with Integrity
00:51:20
Speaker
You just cop on us and do whatever it is to get that money. But when you think about it from a perspective of value, what are my strengths? What can I do to then make that money? That helps you to
00:51:32
Speaker
make it more aligned with your purpose. And then you also talked about other things like trust as well, because in the bid to even build wealth, if you're building a business and your business is not, your business is not trustworthy, we can rely on your services. At the end of the day, you're losing now because if I purchase from you for the first time and I see that it's not great and my friends also buy from you and they also say the same thing, I'm not coming back again.
00:52:01
Speaker
might have made the first sales, but then you need something sustainable. So it's great that you mentioned that. I think one thing that I also just wanted to mention is, especially for young people, I think when it comes to even thinking about money or investment, I think the best place they can invest in is in themselves.
Investing in Personal Growth
00:52:21
Speaker
Absolutely. That is where the value will owe them. Just like we mentioned earlier,
00:52:25
Speaker
you know, what you're getting from your employer. Yes, you're getting money, but the most valuable thing is what you're taking away from the organization in terms of capacity building and character building. All of this is very important. So invest in yourself. There are three things that you can start using to use that capacity, view that value that would then convert into money, you know, like you mentioned. But yes, thank you for sharing that. So I'm mindful of the fact that we're almost on time.
00:52:53
Speaker
Yeah, well, OK, yeah, we're not over time yet. So yeah, I'm mindful of the fact that this would soon end. I think the last question I would like to, not even the question, but just more of, oh, it's actually a question. So like, what does growth mean to you?
Continuous Learning and Improvement
00:53:10
Speaker
Growth. Yeah. Growth. We like to ask that question because the question is the growth was sad. Exactly. So we'd like to end or start our conversations with that.
00:53:22
Speaker
Group for me is giving myself the gift of learning. It's allowing myself to make mistakes, learn from them, and move on. And it's allowing myself to be a better version than I was yesterday.
00:53:44
Speaker
It has given myself the gift of learning. Many times we hold ourselves to this standard that cripples us. We're not willing to try new things. When we make a mistake, we are so hard on ourselves. But if you give yourself that grace, that I can learn anything,
00:54:00
Speaker
I am able to learn. I'm willing to learn. If I do it and I don't do it, first of all, I don't set out to do it wrong. I set out to do it right. But if for any reason it doesn't turn out right, I will learn from it and I will move forward from it. I will be better for it. That is how you grow. That is how you get better day by day, allowing yourself to learn.
00:54:21
Speaker
allowing yourself to experience things, allowing yourself to take the lesson and move forward from it. Don't stay in the mystic, take the lesson and move forward. That is what growth is to me.
00:54:34
Speaker
Yeah, I agree with you. Thank you so much, Kemi. This was a fantastic conversation. And obviously, I will be asking you for your YouTube channel, because you mentioned that you share things around communication. And I know that the audience would learn a lot from that. But thank you so much for giving and sharing your experience. Because I always say, like I mentioned earlier, many times, you never really know about the things that
00:55:00
Speaker
the things that people process in their mind when they're making decisions or when you're seeing their profiles, you never really know how they've gotten there or when they're generous enough to take their time to share their stories. It just gives you that confidence that, okay, even though I'm going through this right now, like I'm on the right path, I can get there. If Kemi can do this, I can also do this as well. Thank you so much for having me. My YouTube channel is Simply Communicate with Kemi.
00:55:30
Speaker
Okay, that's perfect. I'll add this additional to the episode so that people can see. Thank you so much for having me. I had such a good time. Yes, me too. Enjoy the rest of your day. You too. You too. All right. Bye.