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Are Product Marketers Your Secret Weapon?
257 Plays2 months ago
Engineers build killer products. Marketers get what makes people tick. But product marketers? They’re the secret sauce — blending the brains of product with the finesse of marketing.
In this episode, Jess and Susan break down the role of product marketers in the B2B world and why they’re essential for nailing spot-on messaging because they bring the perfect mix of creativity and technical know-how.
In this episode:
- Collaboration between content teams and product marketers for compelling content.
- How to navigate the gray areas of empowerment in product marketing across different company cultures.
- Best practices for aligning product messaging with broader marketing strategies.
That's Marketing, Baby is produced by Sweet Fish Media.
Ready to get your podcast production and promotion off your plate and under control? Book a call at sweetfishmedia.com.
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Transcript
Introduction and Listener Question
00:00:00
Speaker
If I had to define product marketers, they are the shepherd of messaging when it comes to the actual product, really deeply understanding the features, what they do, why they're important, and the user. but Really understanding the people we're targeting, the people who are going to use this software, the people who are going to buy the software because they're often different.
00:00:32
Speaker
Hey, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of It's Marketing Baby. I am Susan Winograd, and I am here with my fabulous co-host and marketing bestie, Jess Cook. Hello. We are here today because of a question and recommendation that someone made. Jess, do you want to talk about what popped up in our comments? Yes. I want to give a shout out to Talia Heller, who had this amazing idea. She and I were kind of like sending each other messages on LinkedIn. And I was like, hey, as a listener, is there anything you wish we would talk about? Like I always love asking people that.
Understanding Product Marketing
00:01:06
Speaker
And she was like, yeah, can you talk about product marketers and how to work with product marketers and what product marketing is like compared to who needs to work with them and all of those things. so And I thought that was so smart. I had a really, really hard time understanding that when I first came.
00:01:21
Speaker
And as a content marketer, and I was like, what is this product marketing? How do I work with you? And how, what is it? Like, so just seemed like a good, a good idea. So thank you, Talia. Yeah. I realized we never, we never really have touched on it before. So it was a great, I'd never occurred to me, but I was like, yeah, you're right. We've never talked about that. So We talked about how to approach it. I think the what we came up with was let's first discuss the why is it confusing for people? you know Why have an episode about product marketers and or how to work with them?
00:01:54
Speaker
Because that's sometimes indicative of a company culture, too, I think, really. And I you know i say that as someone that's worked with a lot of large B2B places where there are a lot of product marketers involved, you start to see patterns. So let's dissect where the, I guess, A, confusion comes in, B,
00:02:11
Speaker
how it varies from company to company, which can also create confusion when you're working, you might have worked with them in one way at one company, you go to another company, and they're more empowered or less empowered, and so it's a little bit of a gray area. And then the second part, where we're going to talk a little bit more specifically about how Jess and I specifically work with product marketers in each of our roles. Yeah, for sure.
Role of Product Marketers in B2B SaaS
00:02:31
Speaker
I think to part of it, if I were to define a product marketer,
00:02:37
Speaker
I would say it is the bridge, the liaison between product and marketing. and Often you'll find that a product marketer is the first marketing hire at a lot of specifically B2B SaaS companies because they're really the stewards of messaging around the product and features And that's kind of where a lot of companies start is like, how do we talk about the product itself? So that to me is like, if you if I had to define product marketers, they are the shepherd of messaging when it comes to the actual product, really deeply understanding the features, what they do, why they're important.
00:03:22
Speaker
and the user, right? Really understanding the people we're targeting, the people who are going to use this software, the people who are going to buy the software because they're often different. Yes. And really just having a deep understanding of that. They're like, um if you could have no interaction with your customers, your product marketer is probably the next best place to go because they are kind of that wealth of information.
00:03:48
Speaker
Yeah, I was I sort of think of them as the the product expert. Yeah, but less so than like the engineer that made it. You know, it's it's like they're like, a I always say layperson because I don't mean that in a bad way. But I feel like they are the product expert, but in a way that is consumable to people that are not techie that created it, if that makes sense.
00:04:10
Speaker
Absolutely. If the engineer understands why it was built a certain way, yeah the product marketer understands why that's important for the person using it or buying it. Yeah, that's a good way of putting it. Good analogy. Thanks. Look at you. Just came to me. Yeah. Brilliant. It just strikes a lightning.
Collaboration Between Product and Content Marketing
00:04:28
Speaker
It is confusing to understand how to work with a product marketer if you've never done it before. As someone who typically lives like in the top of funnel and kind of thought leadership and kind of content creation,
00:04:38
Speaker
I had a really hard time understanding like what i what was that relationship? like How can we help each other? How can they help me? How how can I help them? And now having done this for a few years, like it is a very, very valuable relationship. And if it helps, just kind of talk through some of the ways that I've worked with product marketers in the past And currently at Island, we have a small product marketing team and they're amazing. And that might help someone like understand how to work better. Because what I think it does too, is it made me a better content marketer. Know how a product marketer thinks and works and what their role is. right like It just helps you establish a little bit better understanding of your own role.
00:05:18
Speaker
I think the other thing that sometimes makes it confusing is one of the inconsistencies that I see among companies and the product marketers is how empowered or not empowered they are yeah over what messaging they own.
00:05:32
Speaker
That has varied a lot of places where some places I've worked with, and more often than not, especially in the B2B realm, it's going to be LinkedIn ads, which is very content-centric, which as we know is not always straightforward, right? there's It's a lot of like hooks and understanding how to make things interesting when it might be some of my drier, boring product. And so what I've run into is that some places it's The product marketer owns that and what they say goes. And the marketing team is just there to carry out orders. I've definitely worked places where that was very much the case and a lot of times to the output detriment. And it's not anything against the product marketer. It's just that understanding how to take what they know and make it interesting as a carousel on LinkedIn, that's not their skill set. I wouldn't expect it to be. But there are a lot of companies that expect them to own that.
00:06:24
Speaker
So I've seen a very big chasm between what they're expected to do or not do or own or what they have the final say in, depending on the company that I've been consulting with. that's usually I feel like the role itself isn't necessarily different. It's the empowerment and expectation of what they have the final say in or what they put the stamp on. That is what has always been fuzzy to me because it it just varies among companies. And some of it has to do with how big or not the marketing team is. To your point, sometimes they were the earliest hire and so they sort of matured in just owning everything, whether it's the best idea at that point or not. There's a lot of reasons why it winds up that way.
00:07:03
Speaker
But I think that's what creates a lot of confusion for people. And it's one of the things I've told people that have come, I've had people come to me and ask for advice about, Hey, I'm going to be inter interviewing at this place. A lot of times it's like a B2B startup or SaaS or whatever. And usually what I'll say is, get really clear on what the chain of command is about the output of marketing. Because that's always the one place where there's less regiment around it, I think, as opposed to, especially B2B SaaS, most places are born of IT, t right? So they use agile methodology for everything on that side. When it comes to marketing, it's like, ah, here, go make sure people, let's get leads, right? It becomes very, it's just less strict. And a lot of times when it's, especially a small startup,
00:07:44
Speaker
you know, the founder usually isn't a marketing person, they're usually an engineer person. So they're just going, they don't even know that there should be a difference between the two. So there's a lot of those kind of mechanics, those human elements that come into it. And that's been one of the things where I've been like, just be very clear when you interview, what the role of product marketing is versus what your role would be as a content marketer, paid media person or whatever, because I have definitely seen people go and they're like, wow, I have absolutely no say and they're just telling me what to distribute and none of this is going to work, but I'm not empowered to do anything.
Managing Expectations in Marketing Strategies
00:08:15
Speaker
So it is definitely something that I would get clarification on just for those of you that are looking to go to companies like that, because it is something where it's it's not mandated how that works. Great point. I would also um kind of relate it to that. Look into historically, how have they
00:08:36
Speaker
messaged through product marketing. So for instance, if the majority of their marketing is built around new feature announcement, new feature announcement, announcement yeah, that is a pretty big sign that product marketing is going to be kind of running the show. Yeah, that's a great point. If you see a lot of thought leadership,
00:08:56
Speaker
That's a nice sign that like maybe content and top of funnel have a little bit more freedom, have a little bit more autonomy to kind of create and and build off of product marketing messaging, right? That's a really good point. So that's another really good sign to look for. And both, hey, both ways work depending on the company and the yeah product and all of that. It really just depends on the type of marketing you prefer, the type of culture that you want to work within.
00:09:28
Speaker
Yep, 100%. So I think that paints a decent picture as to why there's a conundrum. So let's talk about how we adapt to these situations, depending on what the situation is. So Jess, why don't you go and start? Because i I think we were discussing this before this and our access to the product marketers. And what we end up dealing with them for is very different for content versus media, typically. So I think it'd be interesting to outline it from both points of view, because it, especially for product marketers, they're dealing with a Jess and a Susan probably at any given time. um So they're dealing with more of us than we are of them generally. Yeah. So I think it'd be interesting to Jess, let's hear it from the content perspective, kind of, you know, what your role looks like when it comes to dealing with product marketers.
00:10:13
Speaker
I think a lot of the time my role is to know the questions to ask to make the story great. And their role is to know the answers to make the content accurate and relevant. And so that is a lot of what I go to product marketing for. Like I have this idea for this story. I think it's right. Can you gut check this for me? Is it something like based on what our product does and what people use it for, we have a solid point of view or a leg to stand on here?
00:10:41
Speaker
yeah okay awesome right so there there's someone i'm bouncing ideas off of i'm bouncing writing off of even right down to like social posts, the other day I put a social post in front of my product marketer because I thought one sentence was maybe slightly off and I wanted his take. And sure enough, he was like, actually, if you say it like this, it's more correct, right? So that was really, really helpful. So gut check on accuracy around content ideas, narratives, right down to actual execution is a big one for me.
00:11:14
Speaker
The next one is insight on customer mindset and challenges and jobs to be done. like Just how the the customer, the buyer, or the user is thinking about the challenges that our product solves and how our product can actually solve them. So again, I think this comes down to like, hey, I have this idea. Is this actually something our product does?
00:11:38
Speaker
Yeah. Awesome. Okay. I'm going to keep digging here. No, not really. Okay. I'm going to move off of it, right? So I think just kind of verifying that something is worth pursuing makes sense to the buyer or the user. That's another big one for me. And and then they're really, really great at finding the overlap between market trends, company point of view, and the product's unique value.
00:12:04
Speaker
So you can come to them with like, hey, I think this should be our point of view on this thing because in the market right now, this is happening. Does that align with what our product allows for? Does that align with how people are using the product?
00:12:21
Speaker
Are there use cases that you're seeing that this kind of little triple Venn diagram, there's a section in the middle there that makes sense for us? They're very good at finding those. So those are kind of the three, like maybe higher level reasons, some very tactical things. I'm writing the newsletter to the customers and I want to just know like, what are the seven new features that have come out?
00:12:45
Speaker
since last time. Can you give me a nice write up on those? Yeah. How do we compare to this competitor? They have all that information. Yeah. That's so helpful on the paid media side too. It's so helpful. Yeah. What are some other really tactical things? I mean, proofing, right? Like not even, not grammar, but like, Hey, I don't let a single blog post get published without a product marketers eye on it because I don't want to say anything that's wrong.
00:13:13
Speaker
that doesn't align with what our products can actually do. right Again, going back to that accuracy, like their eyes on it is just going to make something so much stronger every time. Hey, I want to take a quick second to tell you about our friends at Sweetfish. Content marketers, just a friendly reminder, your job is not to hook the 3% of your audience who are ready to buy. It's to peak the interest of the 97% of your audience who are not ready to buy yet.
00:13:39
Speaker
with compelling stories, interesting points of view, and practical advice that helps them be better at their jobs. And that is where Sweetfish comes in. Sweetfish is a podcasting agency that can help you power a modern top of funnel content flywheel, all to grow that 97% piece of pie into the largest queue of future buyers possible.
00:13:59
Speaker
How do I know all of this? Sweetfish is the official podcasting agency of that's marketing baby. So we're big fans over here. Book a call with them at sweetfishmedia dot.com today. So when the 97% are ready to buy, they buy from you. Okay, back to the show.
Challenges in Paid Media and Creative Control
00:14:16
Speaker
Yeah. So it's interesting on the paid media side, especially because I operate these days mostly in the consulting realm. And when I was in-house, usually it was at startups where they didn't have like a designated product marketer. There was normally a person or two that just kind of became the product expert, right? And so sometimes it was an engineer that was good at understanding how to make things non-engineering and more marketing. You know what I mean? So sometimes you had someone that kind of was a de facto product marketer in a way, even though that wasn't their title. So there'd be someone internal that I would go to for those things. It was a less structured or formal way. You and I kind of had that at Marpipe, actually. You know what I mean? That was kind of how it operated there. We had direct access to the engineering team, and some of them really understood the landscape and the media buyer's life. And so they were kind of the de facto product marketer source for us.
00:15:07
Speaker
What's interesting for me as a paid media person is there tends to be a degree of separation between me running the media and the product marketer. I am typically dealing with a point of contact that's in the marketing team. The challenge is, and this is where that thing comes in that I said the empowerment piece of who owns what can be a struggle. So Sometimes I will work with companies where I will be past creative, where it is very obvious product marketing is in charge. And that's nothing against them. it But like I said, their skill set is not knowing how to take these product features or these you know the competitive points and make them into a compelling LinkedIn carousel with like a banger of a first slide. That's not what they're going to... And I don't expect them to.
00:15:53
Speaker
Someone expected them to because that's what I got. The challenge as the media person especially is we get under heavy just such heavy scrutiny because someone will hand us money and say make this work. yeah If I am given creative that I know won't work, I am immediately set up to fail. So I will be the first person that will say, this isn't going to work. They can override me. That's fine. But I want it in writing that I told you this isn't going to work. Because I'm not going to be able to change the entire internal politics of a company. I know that. But as a consultant, I always tell my clients, I treat their money like it's mine. If I wouldn't spend money on it, I'm going to tell you I would not spend my money this way. You can still choose to. It is your money.
00:16:36
Speaker
But as someone that knows the platform, that knows what types of content people respond to, and they're free to put money behind, my job isn't just to go spend your money, it's to help you do it wisely. So usually when I run into product marketing, it's usually one of two things.
00:16:52
Speaker
One is the accuracy piece that you said, where it could be something, sometimes they'll empower me and they'll say, hey, we can create whatever, what would you suggest? And I'll be like, I'll read through it and say, and because I've had years of just now, I'm like, here's what I would lead with, right? So it's like, I put on my just hat. And I'm like, I've actually gotten good about helping them kind of steer the marketing content towards an advertising eye.
00:17:17
Speaker
that's where the accuracy thing comes in, where it's like, they might say something and I'm like, it'll be something so generic, like, we're the best at blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, well, no one ever says they're the worst, so we're not leading with that, right? yeah So it's kind of peeling back those layers, like, could we say this? Could we say that? You've called out this feature, does everybody do that? Are we the only ones that do that? It's like, they haven't really looked at it from a scrutiny perspective to make it stand out to other people. They're really good about knowing yeah This is what we do and how well we do it and how we stack up, but they don't necessarily know how to package that into a marketing message for a consumer or a buyer. 100%. So my interaction is usually if they have said, we want your help in what should we even be doing? And I've had consulting engagements where that's 100% the engagement. They just kind of like, we want to run on LinkedIn.
00:18:02
Speaker
What campaign type should we do and help us figure out? And actually I've helped that with some one of our listeners. I worked with them for a few months and helping them stand up kind of what they should be doing on LinkedIn, how to systematically test it, what they should be testing the messaging. But it was the same thing where it's like, we have this thing and we have a lot of information about this thing, but we don't know how to make it interesting so that we feel comfortable putting money behind it.
00:18:22
Speaker
so That's where the product marketing piece, and even when there's just a de facto marketing person comes in handy because I'm not going to know a lot about the industry. so I look at it and I go, is this unique to us? I don't know. like This sounds like this is a big deal, but you might be like, no, everybody does that. so i don't I don't want to tell you to lead with that and put you know spend money against it. That's the first area I come into contact with, and then the other area where I have come into contact with and I'm like, this creative is not going to work.
00:18:51
Speaker
And usually what has happened is that it is a company culture where there is technically a marketing person, that's my point of contact, but they're really more of like an air traffic controller than they are an actual strategic marketers. Like a program manager or something. Yeah, it's like they just take when they've gotten from product marketing, they pass it on to the parties to distribute. And so that's normally where it's like, I kind of have to gently say like, do we have any room to if they won't change the visuals, do we have any room to flip the copy around so the hook is in the front? Or can I rewrite it this way? And that's normally where they start getting looted because they were the ones that wrote it. Yeah. So I try not to make it contentious because I'm not trying, I'm not trying to say their work sucks or it's not good, but it's like, if we're going to spend money on this platform, these are the things that tend to work best. Can you help me figure out how we can make this work best on that platform? It's literally what I'm trying to do. Yeah. And usually it works out fine. I've had some that are just like,
00:19:49
Speaker
because it's that type of situation where it's like they're just in charge of it and they've never been questioned. They're just like, no, this is what we're running. I'm like, okay, it's in writing that I told you it wouldn't work. that Moving on. but That's usually the only time on the media because by the time it becomes a media piece, the part that you're talking about has usually been cooked for better or for worse.
00:20:07
Speaker
yeah And no no pun intended on the last name, right? But it's like, it's cooked, it's done, it's done, right? It's resting on the table. And it's like, we're sliding it down the line. And I just, I'm the fourth person down on the the seating chart. So I kind of get what I get. And it's I get that it's annoying, because everyone's like, I don't want to take it back to the chef. It's kind of like the waitstaff. You're like, what if they spit in it? Like, can't you just eat it? I know it's kind of cold. So it's definitely that kind of situation. So it's i I tend to not have as direct access, which I feel like is sometimes harder. Yeah, I can see that. That is tough.
00:20:43
Speaker
I thought of one more instance that I think I am partnering very heavily with product marketers on. That's case studies. Yeah, that's a good point. And I think there's to be some decent collaboration on case studies because us content marketers can make it too high level, a little too fluffy. And if a product marketer takes it over, it's going to be really in the weeds and very, can be technical, very, very product and feature focused. So there has to be kind of a nice mix of the content marketer really trying to up level the narrative aspect and the story aspect and the product marketer on the other side, making sure that like the use cases are getting talked about in the right way and that the ah ROI and the results are in there in an
Balancing Narrative and Technical Details in Case Studies
00:21:27
Speaker
accurate way. right so And I think understanding i on the content side too, like
00:21:32
Speaker
what would actually be compelling to the people we're trying to appeal to. It was like I said, where you're kind of like, this sounds interesting to me, but they might be like, well, yeah, every, every one of them does this, right? Like, I run into that with this huge six figure software deal that I'm working with where it's like, it is for very, very, very specific C-suite people. Yeah. So I'm like, well, this sounds neat. They're like, now they all say that. And I'm like, okay, I don't know. I'm not, I'm not the intended audience.
00:21:57
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. They're kind of your proxy for the audience, for sure. And there's definitely a checks and balances, right? Again, like trying to find that really nice, striking that really nice balance of story and features and benefits is always super important. Facts. but yeah So it's not all fiction. Exactly.
00:22:16
Speaker
I think the sign of a great product marketer, though, is someone who is willing to work in that way, right? Yeah, I totally agree. When you find a good one, they're so gold, because they'll proactively censor, be like, I don't know if this is of interest. We did this thing. And I'm like, oh my god, that's so of interest, because I need a topic for whatever. you know It's like the ones that are proactive about that. You cannot replace it. Or they'll understand that like this could you use a bit of elevation through story.
Importance of Storytelling in Product Marketing
00:22:41
Speaker
And I know exactly who to go to to do that, right? Or they even understand story themselves. I'm really, really lucky at island. and I have a couple of product marketers I get to work with all the time who understand angles and story and like, Hey, if we want this webinar headline to like really grab attention, it needs to have some kind of hook. These are the things that everybody is talking about, especially in jargon, heavy industries. And that's so true for things like being the paid media person can be hard. Cause I know what terms people search for, but that doesn't mean they make a compelling headline. Right.
00:23:12
Speaker
You know what I mean? It's like, some of them are just very dry terms. And I'm like, I don't know what else to say, because that's just what we bid on search terms. But I don't think that we should be calling the headline on LinkedIn, right? So them understanding kind of like, they might be searching for that. But here's the actual thing they're trying to solve. That connection is super, super, super helpful.
Conclusion and Audience Engagement
00:23:31
Speaker
TLDR, make friends with your product marketers. Yeah, become besties. Collaborate with them. They usually are a wealth of knowledge that We're just going to make your content, your your creative, your ads, everything better.
00:23:47
Speaker
percent 100%. Well, that's it for this week. Thank you again Talia for the suggestions. Yes. Great topic. It was fun to talk about. And as always, like that's an open invitation for anybody. You can always comment on any of our LinkedIn posts. If you have topic ideas you want us to talk about, you know, we always have ideas, but we love getting ideas directly from you guys. So we know that they're relevant and timely. That's right. But always feel free to leave a comment. Let us know if there's something you want us to talk about. We want to give the people what they want.
00:24:12
Speaker
Yeah, give the people what they want. We work in marketing. That's our entire job, man. Oh yeah. I know. So tired are you serving everybody, but it's so worth it. It's so worth it.
00:24:24
Speaker
All right, friends. We'll talk to you next time. That's marketing, baby. Bye. Bye. Thanks for listening to That's Marketing, baby. If you dig what we're putting down, be sure to subscribe and share with your marketing besties because, you know, hot marketers don't gatekeep. And if you're like, this is not enough. I need more. We got you. Rants and Raves is the official newsletter of That's Marketing, baby. Every week, Susan and I share one thing we love and loathe in the world of marketing.
00:24:50
Speaker
Get on the list at thatsmarketingbaby dot.com. Okay, bye.