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Street Cred: Building Trust with Influencers in B2B
336 Plays1 year ago
The paid influencer trend is steadily making its way into the B2B space — and that's a good thing! Spreading the word about your brand and product is much more powerful coming from a trusted human than it is a faceless company page.
In this episode, Susan and Jess discuss:
- How to Identify and work with the people inside your company who have credibility and expertise in your brand's space.
- How to find and partner with those outside your company whose following and POV align with your brand's.
- What influencers — internal and external — need from you in order to create the most persuasive content possible.
That's Marketing, Baby is sponsored by the incredible people at ércule (ercule.co) and Teal (tealhq.com).
Can't get enough? Subscribe to Rants & Raves, the official That's Marketing, Baby newsletter: https://bit.ly/rants-and-raves-sign-up
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Transcript
Introduction to 'That's Marketing, Baby'
00:00:03
Speaker
Welcome to That's Marketing, Baby, the weekly show where two marketing besties talk all things marketing in the world of B2B and B2C. I'm your co-host, Susan Wenegrad, and I've spent over 20 years in marketing, focusing on paid media and email marketing. And I'm Jess Cook, copywriter and creative director turned content marketer. Every week, we'll tackle a topic that's on our minds and hopefully yours too. Ready? Let's go.
Air Cule and Automo Tool Introduction
00:00:32
Speaker
Before we get started, I want to give a shout out to our sponsor, Air Cule. Air Cule is an agency focused solely on organic growth for B2B SaaS brands. I've worked with them before and I can tell you I've never felt so confident and in control of my content strategy, SEO, and analytics.
00:00:48
Speaker
They also have this great free tool, Automo, that translates Google Analytics into actual, usable data. Which pages are killing it, which ones are declining, and what you can do about it. Check them out and give Automo a whirl at ercule.co. And now, on with the show.
00:01:11
Speaker
Hello, everybody. Welcome back to episode two in season two of That's Marketing, Baby. I am Susan Winograd. I am here with my amazing co-host Jess Cook. Say hi, Jess. Hi. So we made it through season two, episode one, and now we're off and running. We are in the second of the second now, the second episode of the second season. So we're
Can B2B Marketing Be Humanized Through Influencers?
00:01:35
Speaker
going to talk today about influencer marketing in B2B.
00:01:39
Speaker
And I love this. Yeah. It's juicy. And it's also, I just love conversations around the human element of B2B. Yeah. It makes me so happy because I feel like it was never done forever. I just think about like those old school IBM print ads, you know, just like really.
00:01:59
Speaker
white background, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I really love that more and more it's less about the company and more about the people that run it or more about the people that are experts about the problems that they solve. Yeah. So I loved when you were like, you know, we should talk about that. I was like, yeah, we should. I mean, we talk so much about humanizing B2B marketing, which I also think
00:02:20
Speaker
It's a superpower we share, albeit in different tactics and places. Because we started on the B2C side, it's like we're so used to marketing to humans. But it's always funny when you come into B2B and you're like, we're not talking to computers. We're still talking to people, people. So the influencer marketing thing, I've loved watching that start to become a thing. So it is a thing. So why don't we start talking about the fact that it's a thing? It's a thing.
00:02:45
Speaker
Instagram influencers, TikTok influencers, it's traditionally been like a B2C play or like D2C play. And it's now kind of found its way into B2B. And I think that's really exciting because like you said, Susan, like it just brings that human
00:03:02
Speaker
element into B2B, it allows you to kind of step outside of the company of it. And a lot of these influencers have so much trust and credibility built up already that you associate yourself with that.
The Power of Word-of-Mouth in B2B Influencer Marketing
00:03:17
Speaker
And I think that that is really, really powerful in a way that feels different than the traditional TikTok or Instagram influencer. So I don't know, there's something there that's really, really exciting.
00:03:29
Speaker
I think what we want to talk about today is like, this is very much more of like a word of mouth play. I loved how you put this earlier, and we were kind of like getting our notes together for this episode. But like, there are some things you can go to Google for, and like, Google, I have this problem, and what's the solution? But like, there are some things that you don't even realize are a problem until you hear someone that you like admire or follow or interested in their ideas, like talk about it.
00:03:54
Speaker
And I think that is like some of the most powerful aspects of influencer marketing for B2B is like, yeah, I feel that way too. I've just never been able to put it into words. I didn't even understand how to frame that as a problem. And you just brought it up for me. And I think that that's really interesting.
00:04:10
Speaker
Yeah. And I think that that's what we try and do in marketing and product marketing, but it's different when it's a person that you know knows your world and they articulate it. It's a different thing than having a company being like, oh, this solves A, B, and C. It's like, but that's it really. Versus a person that's like, this would drive me crazy so we made this thing. And you're like, okay, so they really get why this is an issue, right? Or why we needed this thing.
00:04:33
Speaker
And I think the thing you mentioned before about Google, it's so rampant. There are so many companies I advise and work with. And when I tell them you don't stop spending so much money in Google, they're horrified. They're like, why are you talking?
Google Ads vs LinkedIn: Where Should B2B Budgets Go?
00:04:48
Speaker
Because I guarantee it's probably doing very little for you. Which it's so weird for me to say, because Google ads is what I've spoken on for a zillion years. I've done it since 2007. I know the platform like the back of my hand. I love it for what it's good for.
00:05:02
Speaker
It is not as good. It struggles more on B2B. It works, but it struggles more. It doesn't have as much data. It's a longer sales cycle, but just forget all the technical and algorithmic limitations. When you're at an enterprise company and you have a problem, you have to solve for in a 10,000 person company, you're not going to Google for the solution.
00:05:23
Speaker
When I mentioned that to a lot of brands, they're like, oh yeah, I'm like, do you Google when you decide to switch HR platforms? And they're like, no. And I'm like, right. It's the same thing. But everyone just automatically assumes, because they use Google for everything, that this Google does all the things, right? Yeah. And there have been so many companies. I can think of two off the top of my head. We've cut their spend by probably 80% to 90% and moved everything over to the LinkedIn side. And the results got better after 90 days.
00:05:53
Speaker
And so the other part of it too, it's like you, if you think about who is searching for stuff, they're probably very small. So if you're in B2B and it's like SMB or you know, like single person, e-comm operator type stuff. Like, like I've mentioned, like I run a candle company on the side, right? Like I'll Google for solutions to stuff to that because I'm not an enterprise company. I can't afford the enterprise inventory management stuff, right?
00:06:14
Speaker
But even then it was like, I initially got a lot of my suggestions from YouTubers, podcasts I listened to, same thing, right? So that was why I feel like this is also so important is because there's still this knee jerk reaction for companies to be like, but Google answers everyone's problems. I'm like, yeah, but it doesn't anticipate them, right? It's not as good of a discovery engine. It is for content. It's not great for product discovery.
00:06:37
Speaker
And it's not great for trust. Like I think that's the big thing. I see Dave Gerhart talk about a tool he uses or he has a sponsor for his show. And immediately I'm like, I don't think Dave would, he wouldn't choose a sponsor that he wasn't like interested in at the very least or felt like as a good product. So there's already that trust built in. And so you can't really get that. Yeah. It's not a traditional ad that someone's paying to play somewhere, right? Totally. Totally.
00:07:05
Speaker
All
Leveraging Internal Influencers for Brand Trust
00:07:06
Speaker
right, so we have kind of broken this down into like two kind of sides of the influencer coin, if you will. Internal influencers and external influencers. We're going to start with internal. This is like a really big kind of movement right now is using your founder or the folks within your company who have direct experience and knowledge of this problem or like would be a buyer if they weren't in your company.
00:07:33
Speaker
right? So I think that's why like when you and I were at Marpipe, that made so much sense for us to be like the people on the podcast, right? Because we had already experienced all of those problems, and we could talk to them in that way. It gave us credibility, it lend a trust to the brand, right? So internally, how can you find the like, how do you know if they're the right person? Or like, how do you get that started? I'd love to hear your thoughts on that. So I think
00:07:58
Speaker
A lot of times they'll already have a following for other reasons, perhaps, and they could be tangentially related to the thing that they're known for. So like, if you're like Wix is big on this, they've become really well respected among SEOs, which is unusual for a, you know, a remade platform, but they have Morty over there and Morty does a great job. He's, he's an SEO that knows what he's doing. He understands the challenges that have existed in the past about having a pre-made kind of drag and drop web.
00:08:27
Speaker
platforms still perform well for SEO. That's been a challenge for a long time. He understood how to get those things addressed and how to demonstrate value to the SEO community. I think those kinds of things make it a little easier. I work with Winter, obviously, and Pep, who's one of the co-founders, he co-founded CXL. He has an agency called Spiros. He's been making content for so many years and he's brilliant and people really respect his opinions on things. Yeah.
00:08:53
Speaker
So it was kind of funny because when he had approached me about helping with the marketing, I already knew I believed in the product because he made it, right? Like I hadn't even used the platform yet, but I'm like, A, he wouldn't make something that sucks. And B, he's very big on making sure that what is created fits the need that's out there. So even in the situations of the brands you decide to work with or for, if that founder is someone that knows this stuff, it just makes such a difference because you're like, they're putting their personal name to this thing.
00:09:19
Speaker
Which is very different than a company that's like, hey, buy our stuff, right? And it's with ads made by people that were just hired to do that. It's different when it's someone that's like, I'm attaching my name to this, my face to this, and it just becomes a much more human thing. And I don't want to say personal because it's still business, but it's like it personally means something to them that they're fixing this problem, I guess is the best way to say it.
00:09:40
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. So actually going back to Dave Gerhart has a book called Founder Brand and that book is all about this. How do you get your founder to be the face of the company and how do you use that as a marketing strategy? So great read.
00:09:55
Speaker
highly recommend it. But I think something you just touched on there is really interesting, which is they have a personal tie to this thing. There was probably a moment in their life where they, right before they founded the company, where they realized this was an issue, a problem, and a solution that their standards was not available yet. And so that story in and of itself is really powerful. How can you get that out of them?
00:10:19
Speaker
Yeah. And then I think part of it is like sometimes they need a bit of help knowing that like, hey, we need you to kind of be out there talking about this, either getting on podcasts or being on LinkedIn. Some
How to Choose the Right External Influencers in B2B
00:10:32
Speaker
of them are very introverted too. I mean, which I get because I'm an introvert in my personal life. I think to them that they see their role as CEO or founder or president or to run the company.
00:10:43
Speaker
It's kind of, I feel like it's sort of a newer thing that there is, I don't want to say an expectation, but helpful it actually is for you to be involved in that stuff. Because previously it's like, you'd have the CEO of Delta, but they have media handlers and PR people that coach that, you know what I mean? So it's like, it's a very overly polished existence. And that part's always existed. But I think this idea that you being a human and interacting with other people as a human and not as a logo,
00:11:10
Speaker
I feel like that's something that's just become a lot more prolific in the past few years and it's still something, but it's not something that most people have been trained on or know how to do. That's so true with every entrepreneur. You'll have the best mechanic in the world and you have the worst marketing on the planet. They do the thing that they're good at. To your point, I feel like that's where marketing teams can help with that stuff where it's like, even if they're introverted, it's like, great, then don't be on camera. Write something.
00:11:34
Speaker
It's kind of like helping them figure out how can they- What's the best way to go about this for you? Exactly. That they can do and keep up with and not feel like it's one more thing to do or feel like it's a burden, but that it gives them a chance to get excited about what they've built. Yeah, exactly. And put the company point of view out there, right? Or something happens in the market or there's a new trend. They're definitely going to have a point of view on that. Yeah.
00:11:57
Speaker
And you're going to want to get that out, right? So even if it's just like sitting down with them once a month, recording an interview with them for 30 minutes, so you can, whether you actually use the video or not, but like you can go back and kind of refer to that, but just getting their thoughts every once in a while will really help. I feel like that's always the thing is like, they feel like they should do it, but then they just kind of feel like a stunt chief. They're kind of like, you know, I've had that discussion, like I'm not, I'm not like an important founder or anything, but I've had that where I'm like, I need to write a post.
00:12:26
Speaker
I just stared up screen. I'm like, I don't know what to talk about. But if someone said, Hey, talk about this or tell me about this, I could write you an entire book, right? It's like, do you just need someone to be that catalyst? Absolutely. And then there's people in the company, like doesn't even have to be the founder. But if there's someone in the company who is well known or vocal or already has kind of an online presence,
00:12:46
Speaker
who can speak to either what your company does or what they do at your company that makes it special. There's so many of those folks I know about Air Meat because of Nick Bennett. I learned about Gong through Devin Reed. I learned about Grizzle because of Eric Schneider.
00:13:06
Speaker
I wouldn't have known about those companies if I hadn't first, air quotes, met those folks first, right? And so I think there's something to be said about really giving your people the space to talk about what they do at your company, just to like, I mean, shoot, it's free trust, it's free credibility, it's free airtime.
00:13:26
Speaker
And they don't, I mean, the other part too is it's like, that's usually not even your job. It's just, they actually believe in so much in what they work on every day that they talk about it. How much higher of a, you know, stamp of approval can you get? All right. That was internal folks. Did we hit all the points there? Yeah. I think we hit the points there. Yeah. So then you've got external folks, right? So this is kind of where the line between what brands have been doing and DTC and retail and beauty and all of those things for a long, long time.
00:13:51
Speaker
And kind of we're starting to now bleed over to B2B. And that is finding someone outside your company to kind of, you know, be a spokesperson for your brand. Yeah. Something we wanted to talk about here was like, how do you choose that person? How do you know that like, that's going to be a good fit? And we have a couple thoughts there. So the first one is obviously you're going to want someone who has a decent sized audience.
00:14:16
Speaker
whose audience also would be part of your audience, right? So I like to think about this as like, okay, when you have a guest on your podcast, right? Like at Lasso, we have a podcast called Corralling the Chaos, and we bring guests onto that podcast. And like something I like to know is like, do they have a decent sized audience before I go into this? Like, because if I give them a clip and they post it, I want another 10,000 people that maybe don't follow Lasso yet to see us.
00:14:45
Speaker
And so it's kind of like, how can you widen your net of an audience? So you just want to make sure they have some sort of following, right? Doesn't have to be huge. And that they make sense for your, to be now in your audience. There's some sort of overlap. That's Marketing Baby is sponsored by Teal.
00:15:04
Speaker
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00:15:23
Speaker
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00:15:38
Speaker
I think tied to that too is, and I feel like this is really somewhat more unique to B2B because there's a vast difference if you're like a TikTok influencer, but let's say you're like a mom influencer, right? There's 80 million products that you use in a day. So it's easy for you to not be a spokesperson, but be an influencer through many different facets.
00:16:02
Speaker
In B2B, you don't use 80 different tools as a CRM. You know what I mean? So that's kind of the other thing is I think you have to be a little selective in someone that's like, it's not like they've been an influencer for six other shearings in the past. And you know what I mean? I was thinking about that the other day when I knew we were going to talk about this topic. I was trying to think in my mind, how do I articulate like the difference between those? But on the D2C side, as a consumer, you just use so many different things in a day that yet you might recommend three different laundry detergents.
00:16:28
Speaker
You know what I mean? Because you could potentially use those. I think the thing that's harder with B2B is it's like they really have to, you know, die on the hill for that one thing, right? Otherwise it's like, you're just like, they said that they use this CRM and this other podcast I listened to and now they're saying that, you know what I mean? It's like, it's very easy to pick up on that because you don't duplicate tools in the B2B world.
00:16:49
Speaker
You know what I'm saying? It's like you don't, so I think that that's the other thing is understanding like, have they been an influencer for other things before? What were they influencers for? What was the circumstances that they stopped working with that brand? If it's in the same vertical as yours, like I think understanding those things become a lot more important. I think that's a great idea. That's just another lens to look at it through because again, that's either going to boost or degrade kind of the credibility and trust that person has. So that's super smart.
00:17:15
Speaker
The next idea we had around like just some criteria to look at for external influencers is do they have a point of view and does it align with your brand point of view? And if there's overlap there, that's really, really magical because what it does is it is kind of this social proof that the point of view that your brand stands behind is also kind of believed in by the experts and like what better way to validate that. They had that POV before they even...
00:17:40
Speaker
started. You know what I mean? I think that's the other part that's so important. I think one of the people that's really good about that is if you ever listen to Pat Flynn, smart passive income, he was like an investor or a co-owner or something of ConvertKit. Oh yeah. We actually use that for our email, but I could tell that it had his kind of
00:17:58
Speaker
viewpoint and stuff because it handled things differently at the time. Now, it has a bunch of knockoffs. But when it came out, it's like being able to monetize your content through the email platform you already have, making email flows that are simple and that makes sense. There weren't a lot that were really great for content. So many email providers were so focused on e-comm. So it's like I knew it was kind of that thing where it's like that had always been his POV was that you should be using email for these things. So then when he started promoting this thing that he had helped
00:18:26
Speaker
build on like it already aligned like it was built because he already felt that way. So to your point, it's kind of like the brand of what they made to make it for creators like us, it already coincided with what he'd been saying for years, you know, like he'd been saying it long before it even existed, which makes it so much more credible. I'd also say take a look at like what they're against, right? Like what don't they care for? What do they, what don't they find to be a great way to solve a problem, right?
00:18:52
Speaker
Last couple of criteria we have, personality. Obviously, if you are a developer audience, you're going to want somebody whose personality resonates with that group. Same thing with marketers. You just have to take a look at what do they think like? What do they act like? Is that going to resonate with people? Is it going to be too much? Is it going to be too little?
00:19:14
Speaker
Obviously, personality matching with the brand personality, credibility. I think going back to if they've already promoted three other CRMs, probably not as a CRM brand. They're just going to get paid chill. You know what I mean? It's like a... Yeah. How often do they do this? Are they very selective about how often they're choosing to promote a brand? Things like that. Yeah.
00:19:34
Speaker
And then just looking at like, how engaged are their followers? Do their followers feel this is a credible person, right? I think that's really important. And then authenticity. Do they feel relatable? Do they feel like someone you would want your brand tied to? This isn't celebrity marketing, but we've all seen the brands that tie themselves to a celebrity. And then they're like, oh, dang it. So people go down and they're like, just kidding. We've caught ties with that person, right? Like Adidas and Kanye West.
00:20:04
Speaker
I was thinking about Tiger Woods too and all the stuff you know about. Yeah. Like sexually harassing them. Like, maybe it was like, oh god, I know. So like, you don't want a subway Jared situation, which I don't think that's extreme. And again, we're talking about celebrities there. Put all that eggs in that basket. It's risky if you don't know who you're putting them with.
The Evolution of B2B Influencer Marketing
00:20:21
Speaker
Totally. Understand their beliefs, their values, like before you jump in.
00:20:24
Speaker
Yeah. I'm excited to see where this goes because I feel like it's still in its infancy. Totally. And it was one of the things that we had said on the media side that we really felt like the world was starting to get it was when LinkedIn opened up thought leadership ads. Yeah. So like you're, and we just started testing those for one of the companies I work with. So they were finally starting to understand that yes, you have a company page, but that like a lot of times people follow the individual employees, right? Like that's where a lot of the following mass comes from. And it's hard to grow
00:20:54
Speaker
a company page without that association. You want to make sure that people make that connection in their mind of like, this is that person's company, even if they own it or not, just relatively speaking about possession. But I felt like that was the first acknowledgement that like, okay, it is a thing. It's like we've had
00:21:13
Speaker
that ability on the Instagram side and like, you know, spark ads with TikTok where it's like, you can loop in a testimonial that someone else has made and run it off your account. It was like finally LinkedIn made something. Cause that was always the hardest part was I'd work with brands and they're like, well, our, you know, our founder or the person that everybody knows with this brand, like they write stuff, but if we, so that was the other thing where I was like, I felt like that was the first baby step. And I'm just, I'm so curious to see, cause it's not going to stop there. Right? So like, I'm very curious to see like,
00:21:41
Speaker
does it get monetized in other ways? Like you see on Instagram or like what are they going to do in the future? I'm just super excited to see where it goes. I think it's so in its little baby state right now. Totally. So from experience, I have done this with one company that I really believe in that I personally use and have posted about them on LinkedIn and
00:22:01
Speaker
you know, just some things that really helped me out that they have given me are obviously like brand guidelines, things like that, helping me understand like their unique position. What are the things that they're trying to get across in the market? And the other thing to give me is like full creative control. And I think that is so important, especially when you're talking to creators. So
00:22:20
Speaker
Yeah, because it's got to be in their voice. It's like the second you try and script it, it just doesn't work. Yeah. And so like I send things to them approval, but that is all that I do, right? It's not like there's all this input or they're writing it for me, anything like that. I'm running ideas past them and they're like, that sounds awesome. So yeah, I think those are two really big things is like help them understand
00:22:40
Speaker
your vision, kind of where you're trying to get the company to go in terms of positioning and messaging, because that's helpful for the creator, but then also let them do their thing. I think if you choose the right person, you're not going to go wrong there. Yeah. And that's also why you should have chosen them in the first place, right? You should have chosen them because they have that voice. Yes, absolutely.
Upcoming Guest Appearances Announcement
00:23:01
Speaker
Okay, so that is influencer marketing in B2B. Speaking of influencers, I'm kind of excited because this is going to be the first season. I mean, it's only our second season, so it's not like, you know, we've done eight of these or whatever, but we are going to start having some guests on and
00:23:18
Speaker
We're not going to make it every episode because we said we don't want it to always be interviews, but we wanted to very carefully hand select people that we felt like were very deeply into certain subjects in the B2B world who either, I think we know all of them. We're having a total of four for the first half of the year. And for me, my two are people that I've worked with, so I know how their brain works.
00:23:41
Speaker
And it's like, I've seen their results. And it's like, it's easy for me to look at the experience, say, these are the things they do that I don't see anybody else do, or I don't see them do them as well or explain them as well. Right? So one of the things that we wanted to avoid is like, we don't want to just have like big names on to have brains on. It was like, I wanted people and you were the same way where we're like, there's something that they do that we haven't really seen anyone else do quite like that.
00:24:03
Speaker
Right. It's like we wanted it to be something like they're not regurgitating the same stuff. They're, I hate to say the term thought leaders because it's just such a trite term, but like they are. It's like they really do talk and post about things in ways that other people don't. So our next step is that I'm not going to say the first one is yet. No, I'm not going to say, but it's someone that I've known for a bunch of years. He's known by many, many people and he's highly entertaining. So I was going to say, like all of these guests also, they pass the vibe test. Like they can vibe with us.
00:24:33
Speaker
Yeah, we're picky. We like, we like fun, welcoming people that can actually have fun and they don't take themselves overly seriously. I was thinking too, we didn't have an analogy this episode, so we failed. But speaking of speaking a sense of humor, but so yeah, our next episode is actually going to be an interview. So we will both be on with a mystery guest. We will not be announcing just yet, but you will find out closer to the drop day. So thanks for coming along and that's marketing baby.
00:24:57
Speaker
See you next time. See you guys. See you next time. Bye. Bye. Thanks for listening to That's Marketing, Baby. If you dig what we're putting down, be sure to subscribe and share with your marketing besties. Because, you know, hot marketers don't gatekeep. And if you're like, this is not enough, I need more, we got you. Ranson Raves is the official newsletter of That's Marketing, Baby. Every week, Susan and I share one thing we love and loathe in the world of marketing. Get on the list at thatsmarketingbaby.com. Okay. Bye. Bye.