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17: Eucharist in Film – with Bishop Elect Scott Bullock
1 Plays1 year ago
Movies are just for entertainment, right? How can filmmaking and film viewing be an art form? Is art good? Movies are a big part of our culture and world, and art is a powerful force. Bishop Elect Father Scott Bullock discusses not what movies you should or should not watch, but instead how to see filmmaking as an art form which can lead us to contemplate and discuss the mysteries of the Divine Artist, our Almighty God.
The films and artists referenced can be found here:
Henri Bresson (France)
Yasujirō Ozu (Japan)
Harold Lloyd (United States)
The Last Temptation of Christ (Martin Scorsese, 1988)
The Trip To Bountiful (Peter Masterson, 1985)
Romero (John Duigan, 1989)
Flannery O’Connor
Babette's Feast (1987, Gabriel Axel)
Kid Brother (Harold Lloyd, 1927)
The Passion of Joan of Arc (Carl Theodor Dreyer, 1929)
The Passion of the Christ (Mel Gibson, 2004)
https://dbqarch.org/archdiocesan-eucharistic-revival
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction of Hosts
00:00:14
Speaker
Hello and happy summer to everyone.
00:00:16
Speaker
My name is Father Jacob Rouse.
00:00:18
Speaker
I'm the pastor of Notre Dame Parish in Cresco, Iowa.
00:00:20
Speaker
And I welcome you all to the DeBucharistic Revival Podcast.
00:00:26
Speaker
Because that's the name we're going with.
00:00:28
Speaker
Thank you, Father Kevin.
00:00:29
Speaker
Father Kevin is my friend and co-host and brother priest.
00:00:32
Speaker
And I'd like him to introduce himself and where he's serving and what's his favorite movie.
00:00:39
Speaker
All right.
00:00:40
Speaker
I am Father Kevin Earlywine.
00:00:42
Speaker
I am pastor of St.
00:00:43
Speaker
Patrick's in Hampton.
00:00:45
Speaker
and St.
00:00:45
Speaker
Mary's in Ackley.
00:00:47
Speaker
And my favorite movie, probably I'll have to settle with, there's many great movies and it depends what mood I'm in, but I probably fall back on Lord of the Rings.
00:00:59
Speaker
Yeah, when kids ask you that question, just go with Lord of the Rings.
00:01:03
Speaker
It's a safe bet.
00:01:05
Speaker
I'll say Blues Brothers.
00:01:08
Speaker
How about that?
Introducing Bishop-Elect Scott Bullock
00:01:10
Speaker
Our guest this episode is the Bishop-elect, Father Scott Bullock.
00:01:17
Speaker
He's a priest of our archdiocese, and I'd like to introduce himself.
00:01:22
Speaker
Yep, that's me.
00:01:23
Speaker
So since a month, I'm now Bishop-elect Scott Bullock.
00:01:27
Speaker
We'll serve in Rapid City, South Dakota.
00:01:29
Speaker
But for the next 36 hours, I'm the pastor of St.
00:01:33
Speaker
Edward Parish in Waterloo.
00:01:35
Speaker
We'll take it.
00:01:36
Speaker
The clock is ticking.
00:01:37
Speaker
So obviously, congratulations on that call from the Lord and from Pope Francis and the call to serve the people of South Dakota.
00:01:47
Speaker
Very good.
00:01:48
Speaker
Yes, I believe that.
Role of Film in Teaching and Faith
00:01:50
Speaker
So we've had a lot of different topics on this, this the Bucharistic revival podcast.
00:01:56
Speaker
And one of the one of the topics we wanted to talk about today is film or specifically art.
00:02:03
Speaker
No, rather art, but specifically film and how the.
00:02:07
Speaker
the artist, the filmmaker can teach things or un-teach things.
00:02:13
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And Father Scott has been a, I guess, what's the word?
00:02:17
Speaker
Aficionado, amateur film lover for a number of years, as long as I've known him.
00:02:23
Speaker
And it's really been fun to see the way he views films.
00:02:27
Speaker
And that's why we invited him to talk a little bit about that today.
00:02:31
Speaker
So did you, what,
00:02:34
Speaker
How did you get into watching movies?
00:02:36
Speaker
I'm sure you went to theaters and stuff as a young person, but what got you into the art of filmmaking?
00:02:41
Speaker
Yeah, it strikes me.
00:02:43
Speaker
My brother and I would stay up late at night watching old movies on TV.
00:02:48
Speaker
It just became a real communal experience between my brother and myself.
00:02:52
Speaker
And then I just continued to watch and study and reflect and admire the art form.
00:02:59
Speaker
And I squandered too much time of my life watching movies, but I've enjoyed it.
00:03:04
Speaker
Well, I would not quite say wasting, but squandered.
00:03:07
Speaker
But it is certainly a very, very broad category because there's when people bring up, oh, yeah, I like movies.
00:03:16
Speaker
Oh, OK.
00:03:17
Speaker
I like comedies from the 80s.
00:03:18
Speaker
OK, well, that's certainly a...
00:03:22
Speaker
part of the genre as well.
00:03:23
Speaker
But what kind of movies do you would you seek out to watch either by yourself or if you're showing some someone a movie?
00:03:30
Speaker
Sure.
00:03:30
Speaker
Yeah.
00:03:31
Speaker
So I just kind of settled in on some filmmakers that I really enjoy and can get a sense of what their language is, what their approach to filmmaking is.
00:03:40
Speaker
So then I can really just spend some time going deeper in the film.
00:03:43
Speaker
So I've got some favorites, some
00:03:46
Speaker
Filmmakers from around the world, Henri Bazon, the French filmmaker, and Yasuzuru Ozu from Japan.
00:03:53
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And a big fan of Harold Lloyd, the silent filmmaker of the United States.
00:03:59
Speaker
So you kind of get to know these personalities and appreciate what they do.
00:04:02
Speaker
You know, topics interest me as well, too, as everybody else.
00:04:06
Speaker
You said, like, I want to see a comedy or I want to see it.
00:04:09
Speaker
So, you know, I'm always inspired with somebody who tries to take on some great spiritual questions and reflect on them with that art form.
Art's Reflection on Reality and Misuse
00:04:20
Speaker
So what kind of value as, because as Christians, we have, especially with streaming services and all different stuff, what's in the theater, what's in the, I don't know if we have video stores anymore, but what's a Christian to do, I guess, when we're looking at the wide range of choices for our films?
00:04:38
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Sure.
00:04:39
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It's an interesting question.
00:04:40
Speaker
It's one that's been going on for since the beginning of time, actually, of people.
00:04:45
Speaker
What do we do with art?
00:04:47
Speaker
Are we interested in art or do we think it's a counterfeiting of reality?
00:04:53
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Can it be misused?
00:04:54
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Can it be used in an edifying way?
00:04:56
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And I think if we look through the history of art, we'll see that sometimes we are done better with it and sometimes not.
00:05:02
Speaker
So I was thinking about a film, you know, we're talking about Eucharist in film, a film that comes to mind is
00:05:08
Speaker
Martin Scorsese's film, The Last Temptation of Christ.
00:05:11
Speaker
Now, the two men I'm speaking with, the two priests, are much too young to have been around when the film came out.
00:05:18
Speaker
But it was a real sensation and not a good one in many ways.
00:05:22
Speaker
Folks were very suspicious of the film when it came out and thought that it somehow was blasphemous.
00:05:29
Speaker
But what it reflects is the power of art, the power of that form of film, and that it can be used, misunderstood.
00:05:36
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It can be manipulative.
00:05:38
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It can be used for purposes that aren't edifying.
00:05:43
Speaker
So in that case, there was a suspicion that somehow the filmmaker was trying to somehow be disrespectful of the Lord.
00:05:50
Speaker
Now, in the middle of that film, there's a really, I think, very beautiful depiction of the Eucharist.
00:05:56
Speaker
But we Christians will ask, well, why not just go to mass?
00:06:00
Speaker
Why watch a copy of a copy?
00:06:02
Speaker
It's still had been the question for art through
Film's Subtle Spiritual Reflections
00:06:05
Speaker
the centuries.
00:06:05
Speaker
You know, Plato asked that same question, the great Greek philosopher.
00:06:08
Speaker
He said, you know, he wanted to throw the poets, those were his artists of his day.
00:06:12
Speaker
He wanted to throw them out of town because the sense was they were liars.
00:06:17
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They were going to use their bias to depict something that might not be actually true.
00:06:22
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So we're still asking those questions.
00:06:24
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And so your question, Father Jacob, was implied that, you know, should we do this?
00:06:29
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Is there a value to it?
00:06:31
Speaker
I think that it can be very valuable to help us reflect using that art form, but we have to be cautious.
00:06:40
Speaker
So, for example, I actually gave a presentation on this topic recently to a...
00:06:45
Speaker
to an event in Cedar Rapids, Iowa.
00:06:48
Speaker
And it started with a clip from the film, The Trip to Bountyville from 1985, which at first does not in any way appear to be a Eucharistic film.
00:06:56
Speaker
And I don't think it primarily is.
00:06:58
Speaker
It's an epic film.
00:07:00
Speaker
It's a journey film.
00:07:01
Speaker
But right in the middle of the film, there's this odd little scene
00:07:04
Speaker
where the main character, Carrie Watts, is on her way back to her home.
00:07:10
Speaker
And they stop.
00:07:11
Speaker
She's taking a bus.
00:07:12
Speaker
They stop for a transfer on the bus.
00:07:14
Speaker
And then one of the main characters asked the other one, where are you going?
00:07:18
Speaker
And the character says, Corpus Christi.
00:07:22
Speaker
Okay, so that kind of catches our attention as Catholics and believers, because, of course, that means the body of Christ.
00:07:28
Speaker
And another character comes in and says, did you know what that means in Spanish?
00:07:32
Speaker
It means body of Christ.
00:07:34
Speaker
Well, of course, that's not Spanish, it's Latin.
00:07:37
Speaker
Then the other one says, well, I didn't know that.
00:07:40
Speaker
And the other one says, I didn't know it either.
00:07:42
Speaker
So the point is...
00:07:44
Speaker
the filmmaker is making a choice there of a little bit of reflection on the mystery of, of the body of Christ of communion that people don't quite catch it.
00:07:52
Speaker
Don't understand it, but they're heading that way.
00:07:54
Speaker
There's something in the human heart that's aspiring to it.
00:07:57
Speaker
So for me, that's an example of if we really spend some time with a beautiful little scene like that from the film, we can, we can reflect deeply and maybe in a way we might not normally do so if we were, if we were attending mass, for example.
00:08:11
Speaker
Yeah.
00:08:14
Speaker
So art can aid us in deeper reflection on the spiritual theme.
00:08:18
Speaker
It can, or it might derail us, right?
00:08:21
Speaker
It might, you know, for example, we know that recently at the Paris Olympics, there was a depiction of the Last Supper that was considered by many to be blasphemous.
00:08:33
Speaker
So there's another image of art.
00:08:35
Speaker
But not helpful in that way.
00:08:37
Speaker
So we have to be cautious.
00:08:39
Speaker
I guess, Father Jacob, your question is like, what are we to do with this?
00:08:42
Speaker
We have to be cautious.
00:08:42
Speaker
And remember that this is not the actual.
00:08:45
Speaker
This is a copy of the actual, the true presence in the Eucharist.
00:08:50
Speaker
And so it's only as an aid, as you said, Father Kevin, but it's not the real thing.
00:08:56
Speaker
I think on this podcast we've talked about before, the transcendental properties, transcendental attributes of God, which are truth, goodness, and beauty.
00:09:05
Speaker
And I think if an Adam Sandler film could have certain qualities of that, but then also either Lord of the Rings, like we mentioned earlier, or a really, really contemplative foreign film from Japan can have different elements of that.
00:09:23
Speaker
And so I think that as viewers, we can...
00:09:26
Speaker
we can, uh, we can be consumers and just, uh, like we're consuming food at a buffet or we can really, really savor what kind of art we're taking in.
00:09:37
Speaker
Um, and that of course implies not only the themes of the movie, but then also the camera work and shots and cinematography is fun to look at as well.
00:09:47
Speaker
Right.
00:09:47
Speaker
There was a, there was a teaching that was, um,
00:09:50
Speaker
issued by the Vatican in the 1980s that was to aid seminary students and all they would consume media and gave lots of caution about how one would approach that.
Truth and Violence in Film
00:10:04
Speaker
But just one of the tenets in that teaching was to recognize the possibility that art could reflect on reality, but we would need to be very careful because it might not do that like we would hope.
00:10:21
Speaker
A film that comes to mind for me that I think is probably one of the best in reflecting on Eucharist is the 1989 film Romero, which has a very extended reflection on true presence.
00:10:35
Speaker
So in the middle of the film, so of course Romero is about El Salvador and the figure of Oscar Romero.
00:10:44
Speaker
And in the middle of the film, some of the characters
00:10:50
Speaker
those who have taken over the government, who are very hostile to Christianity, have taken over a church.
00:10:57
Speaker
And so the filmmaker then chooses that occasion to reflect on the value of the Eucharist and its treasure.
00:11:05
Speaker
So Romero has to go into this war zone to rescue the hosts that have been killed.
00:11:11
Speaker
captured in this church is now being used as a barracks.
00:11:14
Speaker
So that speaks loudly about, you know, true presence, doesn't it?
00:11:19
Speaker
It's not just a thing or it's not a symbol for him and everything.
00:11:24
Speaker
In my mind, it's, it's an, the film Romero is an artful way to reflect on true presence.
00:11:31
Speaker
So that's very successful in my opinion.
00:11:33
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:34
Speaker
And if I, if I remember that scene, right,
00:11:37
Speaker
isn't it that he goes to obtain the Eucharist and the soldiers sort of desecrate, they take a machine gun and shoot over his head at the tabernacle and the hosts fly everywhere.
00:11:47
Speaker
And then it's, then he's kneeling down in the rubble and kind of scraping together the, rescuing as many hosts as he can.
00:11:55
Speaker
Correct.
00:11:55
Speaker
That's, that's a good memory.
00:11:56
Speaker
And then, then it continues with Romero taking the host out of the church.
00:12:03
Speaker
And then,
00:12:04
Speaker
coming back in the church with people.
00:12:07
Speaker
So the Eucharist is going to form the people as well.
00:12:12
Speaker
And the violent gorillas cannot really withstand that experience of communion that rises out of the Eucharist.
00:12:20
Speaker
So in a very maybe 10 minute scene, that filmmaker is really digging into some things we believe about Eucharist, you know, the true presence and the
00:12:28
Speaker
It's connected to the community and empowers us and it's worth great sacrifice.
00:12:36
Speaker
Yeah, that image just stuck with me.
00:12:38
Speaker
They showed it to us our sophomore year at Xavier High School, and I've always remembered that.
00:12:45
Speaker
But one could say, well, the depiction of gun violence and shooting a priest, that's immoral.
00:12:52
Speaker
That should not be on the screen.
00:12:54
Speaker
What would you say to someone who's either keeping track of immoral things in a movie or depictions of?
00:13:03
Speaker
Sure.
00:13:05
Speaker
Such things.
00:13:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:06
Speaker
So I think that what we would say about that is that, you know, it's the truth.
00:13:11
Speaker
So there was a reality.
00:13:13
Speaker
There was a there was a guerrilla warfare, great violence.
00:13:17
Speaker
The Kordi were martyred as Romero was.
00:13:20
Speaker
So as long as the truth is being depicted now, we we don't want to be gratuitous.
00:13:26
Speaker
Right.
00:13:27
Speaker
Not necessary to be so graphic as to shock.
00:13:31
Speaker
But if we want to somehow reflect truth,
00:13:35
Speaker
I'm thinking about another artist in my life.
00:13:38
Speaker
It's the short story writer, Flannery O'Connor, who insisted that if we would, when she wrote, when she depicted things as they were, truly that transcendentals, as you described it, would just rise out of that.
00:13:54
Speaker
So she would, she would bristle, for example, of being called a Catholic author, but she believed that because of the truth of the Catholic faith, that if she described a reality as,
00:14:05
Speaker
certain aspects of reality completely accurately that those truths of that she believed that were revealed by God in the church would arise.
00:14:14
Speaker
So in the case of, uh, you know, a film like Romero, so we've got machine guns going off.
00:14:19
Speaker
Um, yeah, we, you know, we also recognize that maybe this is not for children, for small children who would be scared, but also is what happened to Romero.
00:14:29
Speaker
And, uh, I'm going to be able to depict the truth, uh, as long as we do it, um,
00:14:35
Speaker
for a good end, I think.
00:14:38
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:40
Speaker
And also, just to connect also with that film Romero, of course the ending very much is, I think in some ways is building on that scene we described because the movie, the film depicts, not to spoil the end, but he's martyred.
00:14:54
Speaker
But he's martyred while, the way the film depicts it, while he's celebrating Mass and it's right at the moment when he's holding up, if I remember, the Eucharist, the chalice.
00:15:03
Speaker
And so there's this
00:15:04
Speaker
It's kind of connecting, just like the previous scene sort of connected the presence of Christ, the body of Christ in the Eucharist, the body of Christ, the people.
00:15:11
Speaker
It's also then connecting it to the sacrifice of Christ that we unite to in the Eucharist with Romero's own sacrifice, laying down his life for his people and everything.
00:15:20
Speaker
So kind of reflecting more deeply on that mystery.
00:15:24
Speaker
Right.
00:15:25
Speaker
So, you know, we have lots of ways we reflect on the Eucharist, right?
00:15:27
Speaker
We have people like St.
00:15:29
Speaker
Thomas Aquinas is going to write long treatises on the Eucharist.
00:15:32
Speaker
That's a reflection on the reality.
00:15:35
Speaker
we've got a homily might go down that road, maybe take some time to reflect on the context of a liturgical homily, the Eucharist.
00:15:43
Speaker
And so then artists will try that as well.
00:15:45
Speaker
And this is what some will do.
00:15:48
Speaker
Again, we have to be judicious on how we choose that, right?
00:15:54
Speaker
Especially if I was going to
00:15:56
Speaker
recommend a movie to someone or or I try to keep in mind like we talked about when high youth youth group students ask you what your favorite movie is just go with Lord of the Rings.
00:16:07
Speaker
It's a safe bet because some of the movies that I particularly enjoy and find a lot of life from have elements that are not.
00:16:16
Speaker
either age appropriate or maybe for someone who is not as possibly discerning.
00:16:21
Speaker
Cause there could be, well, this movie itself says nothing about Jesus.
00:16:25
Speaker
So therefore what are we doing with that?
00:16:28
Speaker
So I think that there's a lot to be said for either recommendations or, um,
00:16:32
Speaker
even the quality of the movie itself, because a movie could be quote bad, even though it's, uh, talking about Jesus and, um, the saints all the time.
Importance of Technical Execution in Film
00:16:43
Speaker
Um, so I think there's the, the way that it's technically executed as well is important, um, as an art form.
00:16:50
Speaker
For sure.
00:16:51
Speaker
I, um, this last weekend I revisited, uh, probably my, um,
00:16:55
Speaker
Well, one of my favorite Catholic films, the 1987 film Babette's Feast.
00:17:02
Speaker
And so does not appear at first glance to be about Eucharist.
00:17:08
Speaker
But what it does speak to in a very artful way, as you were saying, Father Jacob, very beautiful way is that kind of the sacramental worldview of Catholicism.
00:17:18
Speaker
So in the film, we have Babette, who's a refugee from the French Revolution,
00:17:24
Speaker
ends up in Denmark where, um, another, um, perspective of Christianity very much focused on the word and maybe in their case, a little more, um, um, joyless, shall we say, the sense of how the world is to be avoided and, and the evils of the world to be, I'd be avoided.
00:17:43
Speaker
And then by the main characters lavishing this, um,
00:17:48
Speaker
feast on the people who are not used to that type of experience, they discover that there's life that comes out of that.
00:17:56
Speaker
And so because it's a feast, you know, we Catholics are thinking about the feast, you know, Eucharist.
00:18:02
Speaker
And
00:18:03
Speaker
Lots of themes of self-sacrifice that are moving through the film, which touch us as Catholics as well.
00:18:10
Speaker
So this is another example where a filmmaker can allude to aspects of the Eucharist without just depicting it.
00:18:19
Speaker
We all know well right now we can go online and see hundreds of cameras pointed at the altars throughout the world on live streams.
Limitations of Film in Conveying the Eucharist
00:18:29
Speaker
And
00:18:30
Speaker
That has its place, but I think we also know there's something missing there, isn't there?
00:18:34
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:36
Speaker
And so in the case of a film like Babette's Feast, we're not going to capture the full truth, right?
00:18:42
Speaker
The truth, the full Eucharistic experience is gathering with other human beings and commemorating what the Lord asked us to do.
00:18:51
Speaker
And then the true presence, which we can only hint at in the art form of a film.
00:18:58
Speaker
Hmm.
00:19:00
Speaker
That's fascinating.
00:19:01
Speaker
You brought up about Plato, even in his day, and I'm sure everyone since then was, those pesky poets are just wasting their time making art, you know?
00:19:11
Speaker
And you could, can art be, we've established this thesis that art is in fact powerful and it can take us many different directions, but can art be recreational or restorative as well, or a way to spend time to enjoy?
00:19:29
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely.
00:19:30
Speaker
I think what it raises the question of it, what most restores us, what most restores us.
00:19:37
Speaker
So is my watching a film on my iPhone by myself as a recreative, as restorative, as being in a communal experience with other human beings?
00:19:51
Speaker
You know, I think you can tell I'm tending toward the latter.
00:19:54
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:56
Speaker
My experience has been that as a film lover, I many times do watch films by myself, but the experience with other people is extraordinary.
00:20:05
Speaker
I'm thinking about a film from one of the filmmakers I mentioned is one of my favorites, Harold Lloyd, the silent filmmaker.
00:20:12
Speaker
And he has a film called The Kid Brother, which is very famous.
00:20:15
Speaker
And I've actually seen it by myself.
00:20:18
Speaker
I can't guess how many times, 20, 25 times.
00:20:20
Speaker
But I've also seen it in theater with people, and it's a totally different experience.
00:20:25
Speaker
And so isn't that what our heart's longing for is communion and union with, with our God and with other human beings.
00:20:31
Speaker
So when that experience goes well, that can add to the, the, the restorative recreational experience.
00:20:40
Speaker
Cause that's, you know, that's what we want.
00:20:42
Speaker
We want these authentic experiences with other people.
00:20:47
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:47
Speaker
And I might add along those lines, some of these, especially these more, um,
00:20:52
Speaker
these films that are kind of more contemplative or reflect on spiritual themes.
00:20:56
Speaker
I guess I go back to my experience I had in seminary.
00:21:00
Speaker
A certain rector of ours used to, in our college seminary, would have these movie nights where we'd watch these films.
00:21:06
Speaker
And they were films that I would not have chosen myself.
00:21:10
Speaker
Films that, as I'm watching them, I'm not quite sure what I'm supposed to do with this.
00:21:14
Speaker
But it was precisely in the experience of gathering with other people.
00:21:18
Speaker
And then the reflection that was sort of,
00:21:20
Speaker
spurred or inspired the conversation that was spurred and inspired by this kind of artistic thing that we had experienced together.
00:21:28
Speaker
Father Scott Bullock was the rector of that seminary, by the way, who hosted those film nights and greatly appreciated that experience.
00:21:35
Speaker
Whereas where I've had the experience of sometimes watching some of those, you might say more artistic films by myself.
00:21:41
Speaker
And sometimes I watch them and I'm like, I need to reflect on this with someone.
00:21:45
Speaker
I don't know what to do with this, you know, but then, but, and it is a very different experience than,
00:21:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:50
Speaker
Having someone there that then you can kind of reflect on this experience with and the themes, you know, the emotions evoked, the themes it's touching on and how it connects to goodness, truth and beauty.
00:22:02
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:02
Speaker
Watching them in the I was in seminary at that time as well.
00:22:05
Speaker
And to be able to sit next to a group of people in the dark and then.
00:22:11
Speaker
uh, mutally gasp or laugh or react to what was happening on the screen, but then to spend 30 to 45 minutes afterward, uh, talking and digesting what we just saw.
00:22:22
Speaker
That was that I think that's where the power was not only in viewing the art, but then, um, uh, digesting it and talking about
Communal Power of Art
00:22:29
Speaker
it.
00:22:29
Speaker
Similar as if you have a prayer experience, um, maybe on a retreat or in a holy hour that you want to talk to your spiritual director about, or a friend about, um,
00:22:38
Speaker
There's still the communal action, even though we're all focused on one screen.
00:22:42
Speaker
I think you'll see that same instinct with most folks who go out to see a film with some friends.
00:22:48
Speaker
Watch the film and you know you're not supposed to talk in the theater.
00:22:51
Speaker
Yep, don't do that.
00:22:52
Speaker
Hopefully not be on your cell phone either, but that's a whole different topic.
00:22:57
Speaker
But once the film's over, isn't it natural?
00:23:00
Speaker
You get in your car with your friends and like, what'd you think?
00:23:04
Speaker
And that's the fullness of the leisure.
00:23:08
Speaker
that this idea that we're going to share this with another person.
00:23:12
Speaker
Sometimes I'll be watching a film at my house by myself and I'll, I'll start texting a friend.
00:23:16
Speaker
I'm like, this is a great film.
00:23:19
Speaker
You know, you watch it and, and, you know, let's talk about it.
00:23:21
Speaker
So I think we want, that's what we want.
00:23:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:24
Speaker
When we talk about something being recreational and good leisure, good leisure, not, not as I use the word squandering, I was being,
00:23:32
Speaker
A little ironic about myself, but... Right.
00:23:36
Speaker
I've found in my life that in certain aspects, certain things I choose can either be an escape from reality or they can be a recreative recreation.
Recreational vs. Enlightening Film Experiences
00:23:47
Speaker
And certain films I choose to watch are things that leave me feeling even more alive than when I started.
00:23:54
Speaker
But then obviously there's things we can choose which leave us isolated or leave us... Okay, this past... Okay, I finally...
00:24:02
Speaker
ziplined through two and a half hours of being alive.
00:24:05
Speaker
Now I can go to the next thing.
00:24:07
Speaker
So I think that ties into how we consume and what we're choosing to consume as well.
00:24:14
Speaker
And I might add as well, one thing I've come in people helping me to appreciate good art, whether in film or art pieces, is it really teaches you that contemplative spirit in the sense of, you know, of being able to look at something and realize there are
00:24:30
Speaker
deeper layers of meaning here.
00:24:33
Speaker
You know, there's more to this than meets the eye on the service level.
00:24:37
Speaker
And in doing so, it actually helps us to bring it full circle.
00:24:41
Speaker
It has helped me to be able to appreciate more fully, to pray more deeply, the Mass, understand the Eucharist, you know, because our prayer as Catholics involves these images, these symbols, you know, which are more than symbols, but being able to
00:24:56
Speaker
To behold them, behold what appears to me simply as a piece of bread, right, or a bit of wine, and realize there is much more deeper layers of meaning to this, to the reality of this, you know, at face value, yes.
00:25:10
Speaker
And if we never learn to see kind of beyond just surface value.
00:25:14
Speaker
it's hard to appreciate the deeper realities to, to contemplate the mysteries present there.
00:25:21
Speaker
You know, I'm so, and I'm always struck by in mass the moment when, when the priest holds up the fractured host and says, behold, the lamb of God, you know, just kind of all the layers of meaning in there of the, okay, he's holding up a piece of broken bread and says, lamb of God, you know, all right, whatever, you know, we could just stick with the surface of that.
00:25:38
Speaker
But then when we reflect on the, the layers of meaning of, of,
00:25:42
Speaker
bread and what it means and its significance in our human experience and the biblical meaning and the lamb of God and what that is and what that means and that it's fractured and being presented to us um like I have found that that those who have helped me appreciate good art and being able to look at art in that contemplative way has helped me to be able to better pray and appreciate the mysteries of our faith you know to be able to see with that deeper vision good well said uh father kevin I think that's excellent uh
00:26:10
Speaker
You know, I think about, we just go back to the heart of the matter now.
00:26:13
Speaker
So we're talking about Eucharist in film.
00:26:14
Speaker
So Eucharist, what did Jesus say?
00:26:17
Speaker
He said, do this in remembrance of me.
00:26:19
Speaker
So he's saying, not just say this in remembrance of me, of course, his words are important, but
Eucharistic Gestures in Art
00:26:25
Speaker
do this.
00:26:25
Speaker
So somehow the gestures speak a deep reality, right?
00:26:30
Speaker
And so we're going to spend the rest of our lives, hopefully plumbing the depths of those gestures and getting a sense of, of,
00:26:40
Speaker
you know, what Jesus was communicating to that.
00:26:42
Speaker
Now we say in faith, he's communicated his entire self, right?
00:26:45
Speaker
His very life.
00:26:47
Speaker
And he did not choose to do that merely by words.
00:26:51
Speaker
And so we ought to, uh, relish that effect of, of being able to, um, heighten our ability to be contemplative with these gestures.
00:27:01
Speaker
And we practice that can practice that through art.
00:27:06
Speaker
We can practice it through art.
00:27:08
Speaker
Um,
00:27:08
Speaker
Just like the concert pianist spends time with his or her scales practicing something for a greater experience of art, of life.
00:27:21
Speaker
So too, we can practice our contemplative hearts by looking closely at art, being ready to reflect contemplatively on the great expression of life that Jesus gave us through symbols and words.
00:27:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:42
Speaker
Beautiful.
00:27:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:44
Speaker
I was going to say, do you have any other examples for us or of good depictions or scenes or films that help us to reflect deeply on the Eucharistic mystery?
Film Recommendations on Eucharistic Themes
00:27:54
Speaker
Yeah, I can offer a couple more, I think.
00:27:56
Speaker
So again, these are going to be mixed bags because there's parts of them that can be great and parts of them can be rough.
00:28:03
Speaker
So I'll mention the silent film from 1928, The Passion of Joan of Arc.
00:28:09
Speaker
which has a scene in the middle of it where, so obviously it's about Joan of Arc.
00:28:14
Speaker
It's a silent film and she's being questioned by the, by, you know, her opponents or her political opponents trying to get her to decant her, her conviction that God has told her to, that this is her vocation to lead France.
00:28:32
Speaker
And so,
00:28:33
Speaker
At one point, one of her inquisitors holds up a host and says that she will recant that she can receive communion.
00:28:43
Speaker
OK, so it's just a devastating scene on many levels.
00:28:48
Speaker
First of all, that the one who is, I would say, bribing her.
00:28:53
Speaker
blackmailing her as himself a priest.
00:28:55
Speaker
That's kind of hard to take.
00:28:58
Speaker
But also that she's ready to sacrifice her belief and truth just to get to the Eucharist.
00:29:08
Speaker
She ultimately doesn't do that, but it's an occasion to really reflect on that treasure.
00:29:14
Speaker
So I think that's a beautiful example of film that might hint at Eucharist.
00:29:19
Speaker
It's much more than that, but then there's some aspects of Eucharist there.
00:29:26
Speaker
You know, another film that many, many, many people have seen, The Passion of the Christ from 2004, that's an example of a filmmaker definitely having a purpose and I would say an agenda on what he wanted to be picked.
00:29:42
Speaker
That was not for everybody's taste.
00:29:45
Speaker
But in the middle of that film, once again, some moments of contemplation of the life of Christ
00:29:52
Speaker
And, um, so there's some value there.
00:29:55
Speaker
It's just not for children.
00:29:58
Speaker
It's not for, um, for, um, really even, uh, uh, uh, um, accurate depiction of the gospels.
00:30:07
Speaker
You know, who made the film starts from the beginning of the film saying, this isn't just based on the gospels.
00:30:12
Speaker
And he talks about the revelations of Catherine Emmerich, um,
00:30:17
Speaker
Martin Scorsese did that same thing too when he made Last Addiction to Christ.
00:30:21
Speaker
He starts the movie by saying, this is not based on the Gospels.
00:30:26
Speaker
And then people watched the film thinking it was.
00:30:28
Speaker
It was very annoying and very upsetting to people.
00:30:32
Speaker
So again, these films judiciously watched, recognizing not every film is for every viewer.
00:30:39
Speaker
And then also remembering these are copies of the copy.
00:30:44
Speaker
This isn't the real stuff.
00:30:46
Speaker
So we're only using it to get back to Eucharist.
00:30:48
Speaker
I would only say that, you know, our world right now has a lot of occasions to, again, look at mass online to live stream.
00:30:56
Speaker
And I think most of us pastors, the three pastors you're listening to right now have some ambivalence toward that experience, right?
00:31:03
Speaker
That folks would go sit at home with their coffee in their pajamas, watching the copy of the copy.
00:31:10
Speaker
Cause we want more for them than that, don't we?
00:31:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:13
Speaker
And that,
00:31:14
Speaker
harkens back to Plato and the recognition that art can only go so far.
00:31:23
Speaker
It's not always, it's not reality in its fullness.
00:31:27
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:30
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:30
Speaker
But what it can do, of course, is what we're trying to do with this podcast, where we're trying to name that there's many facets to the Eucharistic reality, the Eucharistic mystery.
00:31:39
Speaker
And what we're attempting to do with this podcast is to,
00:31:42
Speaker
highlight, recognize, name.
00:31:44
Speaker
There's different aspects to this profound and beautiful mystery and reflecting on some of those different facets and aspects and good art can help us to reflect on aspects of those reality.
00:31:57
Speaker
Again, it's not the fullness of the reality itself, but it can help us to contemplate, to understand, to receive and appreciate more deeply the various facets of the Eucharistic mystery.
00:32:09
Speaker
I think maybe I'll just make some final comments about another type of film that we haven't really touched on, maybe less artful in some ways.
00:32:17
Speaker
I don't know why I said, but we can see documentaries too, right?
00:32:21
Speaker
That's a form of filmmaking.
00:32:23
Speaker
It tends to be more informational based.
00:32:26
Speaker
We want to communicate information.
00:32:28
Speaker
And so they can have some value too, right?
00:32:30
Speaker
So a good documentary on
00:32:33
Speaker
you know, how the meaning of the Eucharist, a celebration of the Eucharist, that can be well done.
00:32:39
Speaker
That can be helpful.
00:32:41
Speaker
There can be a documentary on maybe history of things like Eucharistic miracles or something like that.
00:32:46
Speaker
So that type of film has its purpose.
00:32:50
Speaker
I don't always find it as contemplative and reflective, but it's not to be dismissed.
00:32:55
Speaker
It's another.
00:32:56
Speaker
So I think when you hear this topic, Eucharist in film, some might say, well, give me a good documentary on, you know,
00:33:04
Speaker
teaching about Eucarist.
Educational Value of Documentaries
00:33:06
Speaker
Sure, that's got its place.
00:33:08
Speaker
But I think we're talking about a different type of experience here with maybe a fine filmmaker trying to plumb the mystery.
00:33:18
Speaker
I think the mystery is an important thing.
00:33:20
Speaker
One of the ways I teach when I use incense is that one of the
00:33:25
Speaker
meanings of incense.
00:33:26
Speaker
There's many historical contexts to it, but it represents a cloud that clouds our vision and our senses.
00:33:33
Speaker
And we can't always see through that.
00:33:36
Speaker
And so we have to trust there's something behind it and then trust that we'll be led through it.
00:33:40
Speaker
And that's what I really like about a good film that you just have the end credits roll and you just think, what did I just watch?
00:33:48
Speaker
I need to
00:33:48
Speaker
Think about this more.
00:33:49
Speaker
So it's leading you into the
Film as a Spiritual Medium
00:33:51
Speaker
mystery.
00:33:51
Speaker
I need to call someone.
00:33:53
Speaker
And that's sometimes what the mystery of God does is it compels us not only to reach out in faith to him, but then also to reach left and right to our brothers and sisters.
00:34:02
Speaker
In the movie theater with us.
00:34:05
Speaker
So I just, I would end by saying, yes, you know, use art.
00:34:11
Speaker
Use poetry and film and, you know, literature.
00:34:15
Speaker
to go deeper into these realities, as Father Kevin nicely said, to train us for the real thing.
00:34:21
Speaker
So these two priests know me well.
00:34:25
Speaker
I'm all in for watching films.
00:34:29
Speaker
And I think that if we watch them in a good manner and in a worthy manner, it can really help us go into deep mysteries.
00:34:39
Speaker
Well, Bishop-elect Scott Bullock, thank you so much for making time to be with us and
00:34:44
Speaker
help us to reflect on another aspect of the Eucharistic mystery during this time of Eucharistic revival and in a way we can reflect more deeply on this mystery through art and through film.
00:34:56
Speaker
And yeah, thank you for making time as you're preparing for your big transition.
00:35:00
Speaker
My pleasure.
00:35:00
Speaker
It's been a great conversation.
00:35:01
Speaker
I've enjoyed it.
00:35:02
Speaker
Yeah.
00:35:03
Speaker
Thank you.
00:35:03
Speaker
Thank you for joining us today.
00:35:05
Speaker
And we'll see you in the Eucharist and maybe in the movie theater.